[12:03] <dfgas_> ty that worked
[02:38] <spike> ubijtsa2: u there?
[06:06] <ubijtsa2> spike: now I am
[06:06] <ubijtsa2> morning all
[12:55] <spike> 'morning
[12:56] <fabbione> hi spike
[12:56] <fabbione> hi all
[12:56] <ubijtsa> lo spike
[12:56] <ubijtsa> lo fabbione
[12:57] <spike> hey ubijtsa
[12:57] <spike> I'm gonna take a shower, bbl
[12:57] <ubijtsa> spike: I missed your hail last night, I'd been asleep for about three hours by then :)
[12:57] <spike> ubijtsa: ehehe, nm
[12:58] <spike> ubijtsa: I tend to be up most of the night and sleep a bit more in the morning
[12:58] <ubijtsa> I usually go bed around ten in the week
[12:59] <ubijtsa> with a one year old kid (in six days) you tend to get sleep while they do ;)
[12:59] <spike> well, guess u have to be @ the office @ 9 and wake up preatty early to drive there
[12:59] <spike> oh, yeah, definitely :)
[12:59] <spike> pretty*
[12:59] <ubijtsa> I get up at 5, try and hit the m-way before 6:30 and get to the office before 8
[01:00] <ubijtsa> then I can go home at four :)
[01:03] <spike> ubijtsa: I just wanted to ask you about permissions to work in uk, but apparently as an EU citizen there's no prob (jobserve has got a box saying about required permissions on the top right corner)
[01:03] <ubijtsa> if you are resident in another eu country, all you need is your passport iirc
[01:04] <ubijtsa> there is something about an health form you need as well, what used to be known as an E111
[01:04] <ubijtsa> other than that, np
[01:04] <ubijtsa> where in the .eu do you hail from?
[01:05] <spike> yup, gotta get that, I'll check out the .uk local council website for directions
[01:05] <spike> ubijtsa: .it
[01:05] <ubijtsa> should be no problem then :)
[01:07] <spike> anyway, shower time, c u in a bit
[02:38] <kokoko1> when would ubuntu server first release expected?
[02:41] <spike> April 2006
[02:41] <spike> doh
[02:41] <spike> ppl has no patience
[02:46] <ubijtsa> well, 5.10 did have a server image
[02:49] <spike> honestly speaking, to me that always looked like an advertising attempt, just to attract interest
[02:51] <spike> ubijtsa: there's nothing worth in there, it's just ubuntu, good as it is, not really a server version.
[02:51] <ogra> sure
[02:51] <ogra> it comes with all available kernel images on the Cd for example
[03:10] <tuhl> ping fabbione
[03:10] <fabbione> tuhl: pong
[03:10] <tuhl> my company is planning to provide a ubuntu-server for zSeries
[03:10] <tuhl> we have already registered the project
[03:11] <fabbione> ok
[03:11] <tuhl> we are waiting for the open of th build plattform
[03:12] <tuhl> we will do that on your mainframe z900
[03:12] <fabbione> our?
[03:12] <tuhl> are you using the new buildd already for server.ubuntu
[03:13] <fabbione> tuhl: we don't have an s390 port of ubuntu
[03:13] <fabbione> and afaik we don't have a buildd.
[03:13] <tuhl> fabbione: we will do that
[03:14] <tuhl> we did that for an Redhat distro 32 and 64 bit
[03:14] <fabbione> tuhl: ok, i don't have enough background info to follow you. would you mind to send me via email the details of the project?
[03:14] <infinity> As in, you will build evetrything yourselves, or you will provide us with a buildd, so I can do the port for you?
[03:14] <fabbione> did you contact also other people or i am your first contact?
[03:14] <infinity> (Note: the latter is probably easier)
[03:15] <tuhl> as you probably heard the debian port will be discontunied
[03:15] <fabbione> yes we are aware of that
[03:15] <infinity> Erm.  Since when?
[03:15] <fabbione> infinity: it has been taken out of RC because there are only 2 porters
[03:15] <infinity> It's not currently a release candidate arch, that's a pretty far cry from "will be discontinued"
[03:15] <tuhl> infinity: we can help to port and provide the ahrdware
[03:16] <tuhl> as far as I understood Mark , when I met him the new build platform ie designed for that kind of scenrio
[03:16] <tuhl> we have a deep knowledge of the zSeries
[03:16] <infinity> It's not (currently) designed to allow building outside our network very easily.
[03:17] <tuhl> infinity: we can provide a VPN
[03:17] <infinity> That may do.
[03:17] <fabbione> tuhl: no that won't work. it's not a VPN problem
[03:17] <fabbione> infinity: nope.. the machine needs to be phisically at the DC
[03:17] <infinity> fabbione: Actually, a secure tunnel would probably be fine, for an isolated and unsupported port.
[03:17] <fabbione> and nobody other than you/elmo with root
[03:18] <infinity> tuhl: If we're expected to "own" the port and provide commercial support for it, we'd need to have the hardware in our control, afaik.
[03:18] <fabbione> infinity: yes.. possibly
[03:18] <tuhl> infinity: that is the reason why we named it zUbuntu
[03:18] <tuhl> infinity: I cant move the hardware
[03:18] <infinity> tuhl: No, it's rather heavy, I can't move it either. :)
[03:18] <tuhl> yes
[03:18] <fabbione> i can.. i am HE-MAN!
[03:19] <infinity> tuhl: But doing it as a seperate port until we can get our own hardware and roll it into the Ubuntu family seems doable to me.
[03:19] <tuhl> and we are running VMs for several different projects on the system
[03:19] <tuhl> infinity: ok
[03:19] <fabbione> tuhl: i think we would all like to have some background before starting any port
[03:19] <infinity> tuhl: I assume we could have a reasonably beefy VM with carte blanche to run the buildd on?
[03:19] <tuhl> we will add some plattform specific enhancements
[03:19] <fabbione> tuhl: you said you did speak with Mark, right?
[03:19] <tuhl> infinity: yes
[03:19] <tuhl> fabbione: yes
[03:19] <tuhl> @GUADEC
[03:19] <fabbione> ok
[03:20] <tuhl> he added zUbuntu 2 days ago to launchpad
[03:20] <infinity> tuhl: It's way past time for me to be in bed right now, but as Canonical's buildd maintainer, I may want to talk further with you and Mark in the same room about this.
[03:20] <tuhl> ok
[03:20] <fabbione> tuhl: i think you can keep going with infinity and Mark.
[03:20] <tuhl> my jabber id is tom@uue.org
[03:21] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:21] <fabbione> i am not directly involved into porting
[03:21] <fabbione> tuhl: btw i did deny your jabber access. I only use jabber for private stuff. OSS is on irc
[03:21] <infinity> tuhl: jabber request sent.
[03:21] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:22] <fabbione> just my personal policy, nothing personal :)
[03:22] <tuhl> infinity: your ID?
[03:22] <infinity> tuhl: adconrad@jabber.ogr
[03:22] <infinity> org, too.
[03:23] <tuhl> infinity:  daq4th is our expert on porting questions
[03:23] <tuhl> he joined the channel
[03:23] <daq4th> ;-)
[03:24] <infinity> tuhl / daq4th : Kay, cool.  But I'm heading to bed right about now. :)  So, we'll have to catch up later.
[03:24] <infinity> (I live in Australia... It's 1:30am)
[03:24] <tuhl> ok
[03:24] <tuhl> we can talk tomorrow
[03:25] <daq4th> tomorrow which TZ? ;-)
[03:25] <fabbione> oh btw
[03:26] <fabbione> tuhl, infinity, daq4th: i think the best forum to talk about porting would be #ubuntu-ports
[03:26] <fabbione> since there other unofficial ports around
[03:26] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:26] <fabbione> and that's where coordination should be done imho
[03:28] <daq4th> loosing a little bit the overview on channels ... maybe we need #u-server-ports as well? ;-)
[03:28] <fabbione> daq4th: ehhehe
[03:28] <fabbione> nah-- you can't just port only -server :)
[03:28] <fabbione> it's much easier to just port
[03:31] <ubijtsa> zUbuntu eh? the distro is getting about a bit.. :)
[03:39] <tuhl> what are you planning for getting officially certified hardware for ubuntu-server
[03:39] <fabbione> tuhl: yes
[03:39] <fabbione> we do plan it
[03:39] <fabbione> i am not in charge of that specific task
[03:39] <tuhl> how will that work?
[03:39] <fabbione> there is a spec on the wiki
[03:40] <tuhl> I have followed the complicated process for getting hardware certifications in  RedHat land
[03:42] <tuhl> the intersting thing would be whether we can do the certification of zSeries :-)
[03:42] <tuhl> teh money is no problem
[03:43] <tuhl> machine access is given to z900 and z990
[03:43] <spike> "money is no problem" ehehe, can something sound any better ehehe
[03:43] <fabbione> eheh
[03:44] <fabbione> daq4th: i think the hw certification won't be a problem
[03:44] <fabbione> (perhaps you can tell tuhl)
[03:44] <fabbione> but that's really dependent on how good is your port
[03:55] <daq4th> fabbione: yes, but the variety is not so big in z-land ...
[04:01] <fabbione> daq4th: i know, but the port still needs to be good enough to be certified :)
[04:08] <neuralis> fabbione: at present, we're only certifying hardware which can be delivered to the certification facility
[04:09] <neuralis> fabbione: for hardware that can't, we might consider having the vendor fly out someone from the certification facility who can do the work on-site, i suppose
[04:11] <fabbione> neuralis: ok
[04:29] <infinity> neuralis: We may need to make exceptions for zSeries, since it's cheaper to fly people than s/390 hardware in many cases. :)
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: weren't you supposed to be asleep? or your gf did kick you out of the bed :)
[04:30] <infinity> Restless.
[04:30] <infinity> I may go back to bed in a bit.
[05:12] <neuralis> infinity: yeah, i'm cool with that for special cases
[07:17] <Norm> if i deploy a handful of ubuntu-server installations, is there a method to centrally manage updates?
[07:33] <spike> Norm: that's currently discussed and will be included in dapper
[07:33] <Norm> interesting... is it on the wiki anywhere?
[07:33] <spike> Norm: I'll post and update the relevant pages soon I hope
[07:33] <Norm> oh okay thanks
[07:33] <spike> yep, but to me they got it wrong :)
[07:33] <spike> unfortunatly I'm busy with work, so can't do that now, though I definitely should :/
[07:34] <Norm> gotcha
[07:34] <spike> thing is, they're gonna reimplement an ubuntu-specific solution
[07:34] <spike> which is good, but already existing ones are out, and they work *very* good
[07:35] <spike> so no point in reinventing the wheel. they might have considered that and decided to go that way anyway, no idea, havent spoken to them yet
[07:35] <Norm> ok
[07:36] <spike> Norm: in any case, the page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates
[07:37] <spike> which might be even a misleading name for what they say in that page, which is rather centralized administration, that incidentally involves updates
[09:57] <_david> could tinydns, qmail be a part of the ubuntu server?
[09:57] <maswan> _david: probably not, since they are not free software
[09:59] <_david> it is free software but you can't mess around with it, changing the code
[10:00] <_david> to bad
[10:00] <ubijtsa2> _david: nothing prevents you from installing them after you have installed your box
[10:01] <_david> would have been nice to use .debs. I have two debian servers running them and they are working great
[10:01] <ubijtsa2> they might not be in the official repositories, but you could set your own up easily enough
[10:03] <maswan> _david: most of us consider the right to change the code to be a part of the concept "free software"
[10:05] <ubijtsa2> who is the author of qmail again?
[10:05] <spike> most of us also consider djb the most egocentric man on this planet ;)
[10:06] <ubijtsa2> djb - the plonker that teaches at some uni in the states?
[10:06] <spike> ubijtsa: d.j. bernstein
[10:06] <ubijtsa2> yeah, I've had a pop at him, and one or two of his students before now
[10:07] <spike> ubijtsa: the man whose disclosure policy is "right now"
[10:07] <ubijtsa2> when they were posting secutity exploits to bugtraq without notifying the authors first
[10:07] <ubijtsa2> spike: that is him alright
[10:08] <spike> yep, that incident went around the world...
[10:08] <ubijtsa2> claiming there was a "remote root exploit" in nasm... my arse..
[10:09] <ubijtsa2> I think half of bugtraq ignored him, and the other half had a pop..
[10:10] <_david> anyway his qmail and tinydns are great
[10:10] <spike> well, he's smart, and his sw is indeed good, its security record is impressive, that must be said. but that doesnt give him the right to behave so
[10:10] <spike> _david: eheeh was saying that :)
[10:11] <ubijtsa2> I didn't realise qmail's licence ment you could look at the source but not modify it, sound more like Microsofts Shared Source bollox than OSS
[10:11] <spike> ubijtsa: that's nothing... go googling why it is so...
[10:12] <ubijtsa2> can't be bothered. postfix works.. ;)
[10:12] <spike> at least microsoft did it for money, not for an incommensurable ego...
[10:13] <spike> eheh, indeed
[10:13] <ubijtsa2> sounds like putting djb and Theo in the same room might be an interesting social experiment
[10:14] <spike> ehehe, that's been proposed quite a few times :P
[10:14] <ubijtsa2> I've had the dubious pleasure of exchanging emails with Theo... Getting more than monosyllables out of him is like drawing blood from a stone
[10:15] <spike> ahaha
[10:17] <ubijtsa2> http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/184  <- *lol*
[10:19] <_david> who is theo?
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> _david: Theo de Raadt
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> the OpenBSD head honcho
[10:19] <_david> ahh
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> some people in the IT industry are known by just their first name.. Theo and Linus are two of them
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> then you get people like rms, esr and djb
[10:22] <spike> ers :P
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> esr - Eric S. Raymond
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> of fetchmail fame amongst other things iirc
[10:23] <spike> lol, we werent thinking of the same person :)
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> :)
[10:24] <spike> well cathedral & the bazaar is prob what he's most famous for
[10:24] <spike> don't think many knows he wrote fetchmail
[10:24] <spike> well, if they havent read C&B :)
[10:24] <ubijtsa2> yeah, and heading up the Open Source camp
[10:25] <ubijtsa2> rms is a different cup of tea.. :)
[10:25] <ubijtsa2> i've heard he is "an _interesting_ character"
[11:05] <ubijtsa2> bedtime
[11:48] <JulienH> Hi all :)
[11:56] <spike> 'lo JulienH