[12:03] ty that worked === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-server [02:38] ubijtsa2: u there? === JulienH [i=kvirc@jem75-2-82-233-232-223.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === digitalfallout [n=esharp@68-188-149-54.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === soumyadip [n=soumyadi@59.93.245.7] has joined #ubuntu-server [06:06] spike: now I am [06:06] morning all === lamont [n=lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === GheRivero [n=ghe@81.172.88.7] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === spike [n=spike@unaffiliated/spike] has joined #ubuntu-server [12:55] 'morning [12:56] hi spike [12:56] hi all [12:56] lo spike [12:56] lo fabbione [12:57] hey ubijtsa [12:57] I'm gonna take a shower, bbl [12:57] spike: I missed your hail last night, I'd been asleep for about three hours by then :) [12:57] ubijtsa: ehehe, nm [12:58] ubijtsa: I tend to be up most of the night and sleep a bit more in the morning [12:58] I usually go bed around ten in the week [12:59] with a one year old kid (in six days) you tend to get sleep while they do ;) [12:59] well, guess u have to be @ the office @ 9 and wake up preatty early to drive there [12:59] oh, yeah, definitely :) [12:59] pretty* [12:59] I get up at 5, try and hit the m-way before 6:30 and get to the office before 8 [01:00] then I can go home at four :) === ubijtsa ponders if storing compressed XML inside an XML store is a good idea... [01:03] ubijtsa: I just wanted to ask you about permissions to work in uk, but apparently as an EU citizen there's no prob (jobserve has got a box saying about required permissions on the top right corner) [01:03] if you are resident in another eu country, all you need is your passport iirc [01:04] there is something about an health form you need as well, what used to be known as an E111 [01:04] other than that, np [01:04] where in the .eu do you hail from? [01:05] yup, gotta get that, I'll check out the .uk local council website for directions [01:05] ubijtsa: .it [01:05] should be no problem then :) [01:07] anyway, shower time, c u in a bit === kybe [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe_ [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@213.208.70.155] has joined #ubuntu-server === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-server [] === E0x [n=moya@pri-133-b32.codetel.net.do] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe_ [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@213.208.70.155] has joined #ubuntu-server === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-100-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === kybe_ [i=kyrre@legolas.iu.hio.no] has joined #ubuntu-server === kokoko1 [n=Slacker@202.165.255.70] has joined #ubuntu-server [02:38] when would ubuntu server first release expected? === kokoko1 [n=Slacker@202.165.255.70] has left #ubuntu-server ["Leaving"] [02:41] April 2006 [02:41] doh [02:41] ppl has no patience [02:46] well, 5.10 did have a server image [02:49] honestly speaking, to me that always looked like an advertising attempt, just to attract interest [02:51] ubijtsa: there's nothing worth in there, it's just ubuntu, good as it is, not really a server version. [02:51] sure [02:51] it comes with all available kernel images on the Cd for example === infinity [n=adconrad@203-214-98-208.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-server === tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498BF29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-server [03:10] ping fabbione [03:10] tuhl: pong [03:10] my company is planning to provide a ubuntu-server for zSeries [03:10] we have already registered the project [03:11] ok [03:11] we are waiting for the open of th build plattform === infinity was waiting for someone to spearhead an s390 port. [03:12] we will do that on your mainframe z900 [03:12] our? [03:12] are you using the new buildd already for server.ubuntu [03:13] tuhl: we don't have an s390 port of ubuntu [03:13] and afaik we don't have a buildd. [03:13] fabbione: we will do that [03:14] we did that for an Redhat distro 32 and 64 bit [03:14] tuhl: ok, i don't have enough background info to follow you. would you mind to send me via email the details of the project? [03:14] As in, you will build evetrything yourselves, or you will provide us with a buildd, so I can do the port for you? [03:14] did you contact also other people or i am your first contact? [03:14] (Note: the latter is probably easier) [03:15] as you probably heard the debian port will be discontunied [03:15] yes we are aware of that [03:15] Erm. Since when? [03:15] infinity: it has been taken out of RC because there are only 2 porters [03:15] It's not currently a release candidate arch, that's a pretty far cry from "will be discontinued" [03:15] infinity: we can help to port and provide the ahrdware [03:16] as far as I understood Mark , when I met him the new build platform ie designed for that kind of scenrio [03:16] we have a deep knowledge of the zSeries [03:16] It's not (currently) designed to allow building outside our network very easily. [03:17] infinity: we can provide a VPN [03:17] That may do. [03:17] tuhl: no that won't work. it's not a VPN problem [03:17] infinity: nope.. the machine needs to be phisically at the DC === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-server [03:17] fabbione: Actually, a secure tunnel would probably be fine, for an isolated and unsupported port. [03:17] and nobody other than you/elmo with root [03:18] tuhl: If we're expected to "own" the port and provide commercial support for it, we'd need to have the hardware in our control, afaik. [03:18] infinity: yes.. possibly [03:18] infinity: that is the reason why we named it zUbuntu [03:18] infinity: I cant move the hardware [03:18] tuhl: No, it's rather heavy, I can't move it either. :) [03:18] yes [03:18] i can.. i am HE-MAN! === fabbione hides [03:19] tuhl: But doing it as a seperate port until we can get our own hardware and roll it into the Ubuntu family seems doable to me. [03:19] and we are running VMs for several different projects on the system [03:19] infinity: ok [03:19] tuhl: i think we would all like to have some background before starting any port [03:19] tuhl: I assume we could have a reasonably beefy VM with carte blanche to run the buildd on? [03:19] we will add some plattform specific enhancements [03:19] tuhl: you said you did speak with Mark, right? [03:19] infinity: yes [03:19] fabbione: yes [03:19] @GUADEC [03:19] ok [03:20] he added zUbuntu 2 days ago to launchpad [03:20] tuhl: It's way past time for me to be in bed right now, but as Canonical's buildd maintainer, I may want to talk further with you and Mark in the same room about this. [03:20] ok [03:20] tuhl: i think you can keep going with infinity and Mark. [03:20] my jabber id is tom@uue.org [03:21] fabbione: ok [03:21] i am not directly involved into porting === daq4th [n=darkness@netstation-005.cafe.zSeries.org] has joined #ubuntu-server [03:21] tuhl: btw i did deny your jabber access. I only use jabber for private stuff. OSS is on irc [03:21] tuhl: jabber request sent. [03:21] fabbione: ok [03:22] just my personal policy, nothing personal :) [03:22] infinity: your ID? [03:22] tuhl: adconrad@jabber.ogr [03:22] org, too. [03:23] infinity: daq4th is our expert on porting questions [03:23] he joined the channel [03:23] ;-) [03:24] tuhl / daq4th : Kay, cool. But I'm heading to bed right about now. :) So, we'll have to catch up later. [03:24] (I live in Australia... It's 1:30am) [03:24] ok [03:24] we can talk tomorrow [03:25] tomorrow which TZ? ;-) [03:25] oh btw [03:26] tuhl, infinity, daq4th: i think the best forum to talk about porting would be #ubuntu-ports [03:26] since there other unofficial ports around [03:26] fabbione: ok [03:26] and that's where coordination should be done imho [03:28] loosing a little bit the overview on channels ... maybe we need #u-server-ports as well? ;-) [03:28] daq4th: ehhehe [03:28] nah-- you can't just port only -server :) [03:28] it's much easier to just port === ubijtsa reads the scrollback [03:31] zUbuntu eh? the distro is getting about a bit.. :) === soumyadip [n=soumyadi@59.93.254.70] has joined #ubuntu-server [03:39] what are you planning for getting officially certified hardware for ubuntu-server [03:39] tuhl: yes [03:39] we do plan it [03:39] i am not in charge of that specific task [03:39] how will that work? [03:39] there is a spec on the wiki [03:40] I have followed the complicated process for getting hardware certifications in RedHat land [03:42] the intersting thing would be whether we can do the certification of zSeries :-) [03:42] teh money is no problem [03:43] machine access is given to z900 and z990 === spike got that on highlight :) [03:43] "money is no problem" ehehe, can something sound any better ehehe [03:43] eheh [03:44] daq4th: i think the hw certification won't be a problem [03:44] (perhaps you can tell tuhl) [03:44] but that's really dependent on how good is your port === E0x [n=moya@pri-133-b32.codetel.net.do] has joined #ubuntu-server [03:55] fabbione: yes, but the variety is not so big in z-land ... [04:01] daq4th: i know, but the port still needs to be good enough to be certified :) === digitalfallout [n=esharp@68-188-149-54.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-server [04:08] fabbione: at present, we're only certifying hardware which can be delivered to the certification facility [04:09] fabbione: for hardware that can't, we might consider having the vendor fly out someone from the certification facility who can do the work on-site, i suppose [04:11] neuralis: ok === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@213.208.70.155] has joined #ubuntu-server [04:29] neuralis: We may need to make exceptions for zSeries, since it's cheaper to fly people than s/390 hardware in many cases. :) [04:29] infinity: weren't you supposed to be asleep? or your gf did kick you out of the bed :) [04:30] Restless. [04:30] I may go back to bed in a bit. [05:12] infinity: yeah, i'm cool with that for special cases === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-169-231.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-server === reshippie [n=billy@denali.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-server === ealden [n=ealden@219.90.92.196] has joined #ubuntu-server === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-server === Norm [n=Norm@normmac.net.wm.edu] has joined #ubuntu-server [07:17] if i deploy a handful of ubuntu-server installations, is there a method to centrally manage updates? [07:33] Norm: that's currently discussed and will be included in dapper [07:33] interesting... is it on the wiki anywhere? [07:33] Norm: I'll post and update the relevant pages soon I hope [07:33] oh okay thanks [07:33] yep, but to me they got it wrong :) [07:33] unfortunatly I'm busy with work, so can't do that now, though I definitely should :/ [07:34] gotcha [07:34] thing is, they're gonna reimplement an ubuntu-specific solution [07:34] which is good, but already existing ones are out, and they work *very* good [07:35] so no point in reinventing the wheel. they might have considered that and decided to go that way anyway, no idea, havent spoken to them yet [07:35] ok [07:36] Norm: in any case, the page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates === tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498BF29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-server [07:37] which might be even a misleading name for what they say in that page, which is rather centralized administration, that incidentally involves updates === blue-frog [n=james@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-229.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === nics__ [n=nics@sarginson.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-server [] === mipe [n=michael@155-25-124-83.dsl.3u.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === _david [n=david@83.243.162.80] has joined #ubuntu-server [09:57] <_david> could tinydns, qmail be a part of the ubuntu server? [09:57] _david: probably not, since they are not free software [09:59] <_david> it is free software but you can't mess around with it, changing the code [10:00] <_david> to bad [10:00] _david: nothing prevents you from installing them after you have installed your box [10:01] <_david> would have been nice to use .debs. I have two debian servers running them and they are working great [10:01] they might not be in the official repositories, but you could set your own up easily enough === ubijtsa2 is sorely tempted looking in to how to package up a few perl XML modules that sadly are lacking from the breezy repository [10:03] _david: most of us consider the right to change the code to be a part of the concept "free software" [10:05] who is the author of qmail again? [10:05] most of us also consider djb the most egocentric man on this planet ;) [10:06] djb - the plonker that teaches at some uni in the states? [10:06] ubijtsa: d.j. bernstein [10:06] yeah, I've had a pop at him, and one or two of his students before now [10:07] ubijtsa: the man whose disclosure policy is "right now" [10:07] when they were posting secutity exploits to bugtraq without notifying the authors first [10:07] spike: that is him alright [10:08] yep, that incident went around the world... [10:08] claiming there was a "remote root exploit" in nasm... my arse.. [10:09] I think half of bugtraq ignored him, and the other half had a pop.. [10:10] <_david> anyway his qmail and tinydns are great [10:10] well, he's smart, and his sw is indeed good, its security record is impressive, that must be said. but that doesnt give him the right to behave so [10:10] _david: eheeh was saying that :) [10:11] I didn't realise qmail's licence ment you could look at the source but not modify it, sound more like Microsofts Shared Source bollox than OSS [10:11] ubijtsa: that's nothing... go googling why it is so... [10:12] can't be bothered. postfix works.. ;) [10:12] at least microsoft did it for money, not for an incommensurable ego... [10:13] eheh, indeed [10:13] sounds like putting djb and Theo in the same room might be an interesting social experiment [10:14] ehehe, that's been proposed quite a few times :P [10:14] I've had the dubious pleasure of exchanging emails with Theo... Getting more than monosyllables out of him is like drawing blood from a stone [10:15] ahaha [10:17] http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/184 <- *lol* [10:19] <_david> who is theo? [10:19] _david: Theo de Raadt [10:19] the OpenBSD head honcho [10:19] <_david> ahh [10:20] some people in the IT industry are known by just their first name.. Theo and Linus are two of them [10:20] then you get people like rms, esr and djb === digitalfallout [n=esharp@68-188-149-54.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-server [10:22] ers :P [10:23] esr - Eric S. Raymond [10:23] of fetchmail fame amongst other things iirc [10:23] lol, we werent thinking of the same person :) [10:23] :) [10:24] well cathedral & the bazaar is prob what he's most famous for [10:24] don't think many knows he wrote fetchmail [10:24] well, if they havent read C&B :) [10:24] yeah, and heading up the Open Source camp [10:25] rms is a different cup of tea.. :) [10:25] i've heard he is "an _interesting_ character" [11:05] bedtime === Norm [n=Norm@normmac.net.wm.edu] has left #ubuntu-server [] [11:48] Hi all :) [11:56] 'lo JulienH