[12:18] <Den> Hi - 12 hours ago Mithrandir gave me a special distro that hopefully fixed a bug "no ieee1394 support loaded at boot time to access cdrom".  Then he left for the weekend. But he sent me a not 32bit version. Anyone here who can make the 1eee1394 firewire change & get me a new cd iso today?
[12:32] <Lathiat> mdz: pong
[12:42] <tseng> mako: there is a disgusting ammount of wikipedia data on the transformers
[12:45] <tseng> mako: including a national guardsman who legally changed his name to Optimus Prime
[12:55] <Burgwork> tseng, speaking of crazy fans, you seen Memory Alpha?
[12:55] <tseng> Burgwork: no.
[12:55] <Burgwork> tseng, think Wikipedia for Star Trek
[12:55] <tseng> oh my
[12:56] <Burgwork> my GF is a trekkie, so I have found myself being sucked back into that world
[12:56] <tseng> I'm sorry
[01:05] <Lathiat> Burgwork: memory alpha is cool :)
[01:07] <Burgwork> Lathiat, I didn't say it wasn't. I was merely pointing it out the dedication to create that is a little crazy
[01:15] <Lathiat> Burgwork: ya :)
[01:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: well, assuming that we can do dhcp without bootup speed penalty, I think just default-configuring all network interfaces to dhcp should work well.
[01:19] <Burgwork> Lathiat, why are you not on planet?
[01:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: except lo ...
[01:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, sure, but lo should be handled outside of /etc/network/interfaces, AIUI?
[01:21] <Kamion> it isn't right now
[01:21] <Kamion> but sure
[01:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, the parallell boot isn't here either, yet, so.. :-)
[01:26] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, you about?
[01:27] <raphink> testing wesnoth
[01:28] <Simira> :)
[01:28] <seth_k|lappy> could you archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1377 for me? :) \sh nagged
[01:28] <Simira> wesnoth's fun
[01:28] <seth_k|lappy> Simira, he means "play^W^W^W^Wtesting"
[01:28] <raphink> hehe
[01:28] <raphink> wanna play?
[01:28] <dabaR> Hi. What is a good python+GTK tutorial?
[01:29] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, sorry, but I have a dinner date in 30 min
[01:29] <raphink> ah nice :)
[01:29] <Simira> hmm... I think I didn't notice the amount of users in this channel for some time... it's grown!
[01:29] <raphink> Simira: wanna play?
[01:29] <Simira> raphink : it's bed-time (way past, really) here in Norway. Maybe another day?
[01:29] <raphink> well here too I'm in France Simira ;)
[01:30] <raphink> but tomorrow is saturday ;)
[01:30] <Simira> hehe
[01:30] <raphink> hehe
[01:30] <Simira> well, I have a somewhat normal dayrythm now, and starts in a new job on monday, so I intend to keep it
[01:31] <raphink> ok
[01:32] <Simira> so, good night all!
[01:32] <raphink> good night
[01:55] <ispiked> who committed this? http://daniel-robitaille.blogspot.com/2006/01/whats-new-in-dapper-1.html
[01:56] <desrt> oh man
[01:56] <desrt> that hurts a lot.
[01:56] <ispiked> desrt: you did that?
[01:56] <desrt> i wouldn't have done such a thing
[01:56] <slomo_> what exactly do you mean? the blog entry or the notification bubble?
[01:56] <ispiked> yeah. whoever did needs to get slapped.
[01:56] <ispiked> slomo_: sorry, the bubble.
[01:56] <desrt> the bubble
[01:57] <desrt> it looks ridiculous
[01:57] <ispiked> complete waste of time. 
[01:57] <tseng> ispiked: next time you want to come and tell a developer they need "slapped" and about a "complete waste of time"
[01:57] <tseng> ispiked: please run it through your filter a few more times.
[01:57] <ispiked> tseng: that is my opinion that that dialog.
[01:58] <slomo_> desrt: it's no joke... but i actually like it ;)
[01:58] <crimsun> oh, so _that's_ why I haven't seen. I purged update-notifier.
[01:58] <desrt> crimsun; me too :D
[01:58] <tseng> ispiked: what if someone said your opinion was useless and you need to be slapped
[01:58] <ispiked> tseng: then let them.
[01:58] <Tm_T> ispiked: I partly even agree with comments
[01:58] <ispiked> tseng: all that matters is that my opinion is heard.
[01:58] <slomo_> ispiked: it's by the devs of notify-daemon / libnotify probably... tell them that it's bad and make a constructive propose what would be better...
[01:58] <tseng> there are plenty more constructive ways
[01:59] <tseng> to express an opinion
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: like?
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: commenting in that blog isn't going to do anything.
[01:59] <tseng> of course not
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: I really came here to figure out who did it.
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: so I could ask them why.
[01:59] <tseng> we have a bug tracker for problems with bad software ideas
[01:59] <desrt> "<ispiked> i do not like the look of the new notification bubbles.  although i respect the developer who committed the change i call into question the judgement associated with making such a change."
[01:59] <desrt> :)
[02:00] <ispiked> heh.
[02:00] <ispiked> there is no way this is in bugzilla.
[02:00] <ispiked> someone would've caught it before it got in the tree.
[02:00] <desrt> search for dups.
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> I have to agree it's not pretty
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> not my taste at all. :)
[02:32] <slomo_> well, the tango icons are not my taste *shrug* ;) it's all a matter of taste...
[02:32] <tseng> slomo_: they are alot cleaner than gnome, just a dumb pallet :)
[02:33] <ispiked> it appears this is what did it: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/n/notify-daemon/notify-daemon_0.3.1-0ubuntu2/changelog
[02:34] <slomo_> tseng: maybe... i like the gnome ones better than the tango ones with the dump pallet ;) maybe i change my oppinion if they change the pallet...
[02:34] <slomo_> ispiked: yes, the new upstream release ;) as i told you some time ago, better talk to the authors of notify-daemon or libnotify...
[02:36] <HiddenWolf> slomo_, the icons are ok, the notification bubble is so, well, cartoonish. :)
[02:45] <ispiked> e-mailed the guy who made the commit.
[02:57] <nekohayo> anyone know if liblame0 will get into dapper soon? gst plugins ugly multiverse depends on it
[02:57] <Tm_T> hm?
[02:57] <Tm_T> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly is already the newest version
[02:58] <Tm_T> installed here
[02:58] <nekohayo> and there is a bunch of development packages for gstreamer missing
[02:58] <nekohayo> no, there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse
[02:58] <nekohayo> I think I saw that in the repositories
[02:58] <Tm_T> that installs too
[02:58] <nekohayo> ... huh? *checks again*
[03:00] <crimsun> liblame0 _is_ in dapper/multiverse.
[03:02] <Tm_T> btw looks like gst10 causes interesting problems
[03:02] <Tm_T> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08338ec8 ***
[03:02] <Tm_T> anyway, sleep ->
[03:05] <nekohayo> woah, I'm an idiot. Forgot to add multiverse in my sources list. Very sorry
[03:55] <\sh> infinity: ping
[03:56] <infinity> pong
[03:56] <\sh> infinity /  lamont: if you have time please have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/liba/libaqbanking/1.6.1-1ubuntu1/ and tell me why the libchipcard2-0c2 not installable is? :)
[03:56] <Riddell> \sh: it's libsysfs I think
[03:56] <\sh> because it is
[03:57] <Riddell> infinity: could you give back ksudoku, xlibmesa-gl-dev dependency has been removed
[03:57] <\sh> Inst libchipcard2-0c2 (1.9.15.99+1.9.16alpha-1 Ubuntu:6.04/dapper)
[03:57] <\sh> Riddell: this is in a dapper amd64 chroot
[03:58] <\sh> and this version is needed by libaqbanking but libchipcard2-dev on our buildd doesn't know it that it's installable :)
[03:58] <Riddell> \sh: it's something which depends on libsysfs1 but now we have libsysfs2 and it won't build against that
[03:58] <Riddell> I just can't remember what the something is just now
[03:58] <infinity> Riddell: Done.
[03:59] <Riddell> yeah, it's libchipcard2
[03:59] <\sh> Riddell: but it's installable..updated dapper chroot etc. pp.
[04:00] <\sh> let me try again
[04:00] <infinity> \sh: Is it installable WITH the other build-deps?
[04:00] <\sh> infinity: give me 2 mins
[04:00] <Riddell> \sh: and which libsysfsX do you have installed?
[04:01] <infinity> (none, if it's a clean chroot)
[04:03] <\sh> well actually I have two...libsysfs1 and 2...but it's the same behaviour on i386...and there i have a clean one...moment
[04:03] <\sh> well..pbuilder said it's installable...and builds...let me check the chroot
[04:04] <infinity>   libchipcard2-0c2: Depends: libsysfs1 but it is not installable
[04:04] <infinity> E: Package libsysfs1 has no installation candidate
[04:04] <infinity> In other words, your chroot it dirty.
[04:05] <infinity> Any other questions?
[04:05] <\sh> but my pbuilder should be clean
[04:05] <Riddell> and libchipcard won't build against libsys2, it fails on sysfs_open_device_tree
[04:05] <infinity> Should be a small patch to fix for the API change, no?
[04:05] <Riddell> dunno, need to find out what the API change is
[04:06] <infinity> diff the headers, make educated guesses. :)
[04:06] <Riddell> doing so :)
[04:08] <\sh> oh yes
[04:17] <\sh> Riddell: what about sysfs_open_device_path?
[04:21] <Riddell> \sh: I think sysfs_get_bus_devices is the one
[04:21] <Riddell> (advised from upstream)
[04:21] <\sh> cool
[04:24] <\sh> why don't they write something like that in the documentation when they're changing the API..
[04:26] <Riddell> \sh: I think that assumes they have documentation for their API
[04:27] <\sh> Riddell: somethings is in the sources in the docs dir
[04:27] <\sh> a plain textfile
[05:41] <mako> tseng: dude, a national guardsman changed his name to optimus prime.. that's awesome
[06:09] <Burgundavia> mako, you have any experience with docbook?
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: lots
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: i did a bunch of stylesheet hacking in previous days :)
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: whats up?
[06:46] <Burgundavia> mako, having some issue with building a minimalist test case to test PNG in SVG in Docbook in yelp
[06:49] <mako> Burgundavia: is this somewhere i can get to it?
[06:49] <Burgundavia> mako, can I email you?
[06:49] <fabbione> hey mako!
[06:50] <fabbione> siretart: ping?
[06:52] <Burgundavia> mako, does @ubuntu.com still work
[06:53] <mako> fabbione: hey dude
[06:53] <mako> Burgundavia: yesk, of course
[06:54] <mako> Burgundavia: although i usually tend to get to the @atdot where you've been seeing mail recently more quickly
[06:56] <Burgundavia> mako, ah, oops. Sent to @ubuntu.com already
[06:56] <mako> Burgundavia: that's fine
[06:56] <mako> Burgundavia: have you done anything yet?
[06:58] <Burgundavia> mako, extensive outlines
[06:59] <mako> Burgundavia: ahh, good 
[07:00] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm not much better
[07:01] <Burgundavia> mako, a year of experience with the source material is going to make the writing easier
[07:10] <mako> Burgundavia: ok.. what are you using to build this?
[07:11] <mako> Burgundavia: i cleaned up the XML so it's at least validating
[07:13] <Burgundavia> mako, my test case?
[07:13] <mako> Burgundavia: yes
[07:14] <mako> Burgundavia: just using yelp, right?
[07:14] <Burgundavia> mako, yep
[07:14] <desrt> Burgundavia; thesis or something?
[07:15] <mako> i did my undergrad thesis in docbook
[07:15] <mako> you only make that mistake once
[07:15] <desrt> hah
[07:15] <mako> well, you usually only *get* to make that mistake once
[07:15] <desrt> unless you do 2 undergraduate degrees for some reason
[07:15] <mako> but if i were to go back now and write another undergrad thesis...
[07:15] <Burgundavia> desrt, no, some technical writing
[07:16] <desrt> tex seems popular in this part of the world
[07:16] <mako> desrt: i think now that i'm working on a graduate degree, that would be unlikely
[07:16] <desrt> well
[07:17] <desrt> i'm working on my undergraduate thesis this term
[07:17] <desrt> and i'm using abiword + a typesetter
[07:17] <desrt> it works very well
[07:22] <Burgundavia> mako, have you managed to figure out how I was being dumb?
[07:28] <fabbione> Burgundavia: you are really really tempting me to say "by nature" :P
[07:28] <Burgundavia> fabbione, explains why I am sales drone and not a developer
[07:28] <fabbione> Burgundavia: ehhe a marketroid
[07:29] <Burgundavia> no, not a marketroid, those are inferior. I am a Sales Drone!
[07:30] <mako> Burgundavia: umm.. it's not yopu
[07:30] <LaserJock> desrt: in my lab all of the dissertations, etc. are done with tex, being able to keep track of references is nice
[07:31] <Burgundavia> mako, is it yelp?
[07:31] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm not displaying ANY svgs
[07:31] <mako> Burgundavia: pngs are working fine
[07:32] <Burgundavia> mako, hmm, regression since the warty days then
[07:32] <mako> Burgundavia: your XML was a little sloppy ;)
[07:32] <Burgundavia> it was a little cut and paste
[07:32] <mako> :)
[07:32] <mako> in any case, PNGs are working fine but yelp on this ubuntu system does nots do SVGs
[07:32] <Burgundavia> dapper or breezy?
[07:32] <mako> breezy here
[07:33] <mako> my gf is alseep in the room with the dapper box
[07:33] <mako> and quite honestly, i probably should be too :)
[07:33] <Burgundavia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161374
[07:34] <Burgundavia> mako, mind attaching what you found that bug?
[07:34] <mako> Burgundavia: i'd like to try it against the version in dapper first
[07:34] <mako> Burgundavia: i'll paste you somethhing useful though
[07:35] <Burgundavia> my dapper box is currently not functional, due to the daily cd
[07:35] <Burgundavia> and a small OO.o bug killing grub install
[07:37] <mako> Burgundavia: ok.. i'll try this tomorrow
[07:37] <mako> alright, off
[07:37] <mako> 'night
[07:37] <fabbione> night mako!
[07:38] <Burgundavia> mako, thanks
[07:46] <Den> Mithrandir: Did you get my email that the iso you gave me was not for 32 bit?   Do you have a 32 bit iso with the fix>
[07:48] <Den> Anyone here who maintains anything about the boot process?
[07:50] <Den> Anyone here at all?
[07:50] <Den> BenC: Are you here?
[07:52] <Den> ubuntu-devel has gone to bed.
[07:54] <fabbione> Den: it's weekend.. most of the people are resting :)
[07:54] <Den> Ah! a living thing!
[07:54] <fabbione> no
[07:55] <Den> fabbione:  Are you a developer?
[07:55] <fabbione> i am a bot answering machine
[07:55] <Den> Please don't be telling the truth!
[07:55] <Den> Do you know anything about the boot sw?
[07:55] <fabbione> Den: it depends.. just ask
[07:57] <Den> So, yesterday Mithrandir  made a fix to try to enable ieee1394 firewire, and gave me a url to dl an iso, but it was not for 32 bit, & didn't work.
[07:58] <Den> Are you able to access the relevant code, fix it, & get me some code to see if the firewire scsi boot can be made to work?
[07:58] <fabbione> no
[07:58] <fabbione> you need to wait for Mithrandir 
[07:58] <Den> I see Mithrandir is showing up as online for this channel 0 do you know if he'll be around?
[07:59] <Den> PS, what ubuntu devel stuff do you work on?
[07:59] <Amaranth> i wonder if he'll try to get the squashfs-lzma change in for dapper...
[07:59] <fabbione> Den: again.. it's saturday :) people might not be around till Monday.
[07:59] <Amaranth> Mithrandir has been idle over 6 hours
[07:59] <Amaranth> yeah, i know seb128 isn't around on weekends
[08:00] <Den> Is there some info about who does what for ubuntu development?  A wiki or regular web page, perhaps?  An article, or interview online???
[08:02] <fabbione> Den: all these questions are FAQ. please use #ubuntu
[08:02] <fabbione> or read up on wiki.ubuntu.com
[08:03] <fabbione> cya on monday guyes
[08:03] <fabbione> guys
[08:03] <Amaranth> bye
[08:03] <Amaranth> have fun
[10:40] <Mithrandir> Den: yes, or rather, I remembered on my way home.  It's a bit awkward for me to make a new one from home, so if it's ok with you, I'll wait until Monday to create a new one for you.  Is that ok?
[11:07] <pitti> moo
[11:08] <infinity> You really need to stop showing up 10 seconds after I upload imagemagick..
[11:08] <Mithrandir> hi infty
[11:08] <infinity> Hey Toilet.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> pft
[11:09] <infinity> :)
[11:11] <pitti> infinity: heh, bad timing?
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: For dapper, you probably shouldn't worry too much about imagemagick security anyway.  Looks like the most frequent NMUer (korbas) has been hacking on several patches recently, and he told me he'd be uploading, incorporating my NMUs, pretty soon.
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: Of course, that still leaves us on our own for warty/hoary/breezy, but whatever.
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: So, I'm just going to request a sync of my most recent upload, and let autosync sort out dapper.
[11:12] <pitti> ok, thanks for notifying
[11:12] <pitti> sounds good
[11:13] <infinity> (And no, I will NOT be joining any imagemagick teams in Debian, this was a one-time NMU...)
[11:14] <infinity> Hey Ben.
[11:14] <infinity> Or is that just connection bouncing?
[11:14] <infinity> Probably.
[11:15] <pitti> infinity: BenC does that all the time
[11:15] <infinity> Yeah.  Of course, occasionally, it's actually him. :)
[11:15] <jdub> does anyone build/maintain breezy+xen kernels?
[11:16] <crimsun> hunger may.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> infinity: did you find a round tuit to get the initramfs-usplash-changes uploaded?
[11:35] <infinity> No, but I'm excavating the yard for tuits tomorrow.
[11:35] <infinity> Should get a bunch of work done, despite it being a Sunday.
[11:37] <Mithrandir> uhm, it's sunday at your end?  I thought you only were ~10 hours ahead of me?
[11:38] <jdub> hrm, i should totally visit clarkson university
[11:38] <jdub> they do lots of ubuntu stuff
[11:38] <Mithrandir> jdub: where is that?
[11:38] <jdub> new york
[11:39] <jdub> state
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ahkay
[11:41] <infinity> Mithrandir: No, but tomorrow is Sunday, and I was talking about finding tuits tomorrow. :)
[11:43] <jdub> http://xen.cosi.clarkson.edu/?page_id=8
[11:44] <jdub> you guys seen this? it was a summer of code project
[11:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: ah, point.
[11:44] <jdub> d-i support, kernel images, etc.
[11:44] <Lathiat> cool
[11:45] <Mithrandir> jdub: I've seen it a tiny bit, at least, yes.  I think the guy who did them has been around here a bit, but I can't remember his IRC nick.
[11:46] <jdub> there is a dude called jeremy bongio working on it
[11:46] <jdub> that is the coolest name EVER
[11:47] <Burgundavia> jdub, ed despard was supposed to be paid by Ubuntu for that work
[11:47] <jdub> looks like he got paid by google
[11:47] <Burgundavia> jdub, he was dropped by google for non-responsiveness but then appeared in Sept. with his finished work
[11:48] <jdub> ahr
[11:51] <Burgundavia> jdub, seen this? http://pim.kde.org/playground/osnabrueck4/
[11:53] <jdub> nup
[11:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1732
[12:03] <Lathiat> 
[12:23] <ulaas> hi! any idea whats wrong with monodevelop and deps?
[12:23] <tseng> yes, im fixing it
[12:23] <tseng> check in an hour or two
[12:23] <ulaas> tseng, oh great thanx man
[12:23] <tseng> np.
[01:15] <jdub> BenC: dapper kernels are built from tarballs of the ubuntu git branch, right?
[01:29] <infinity> jdub: Pretty much, yep.
[01:34] <Simira> jon_kare : norsk?
[01:38] <jon_kare> Simira: ja
[01:49] <Simira> jon_kare : hyggelig. Kan ikke huske  ha sett deg i ubuntu-sammenheng fr. Jeg er kontaktperson for Ubuntu Norge.
[02:45] <Gagatan> hei jon_kare - lenge siden sist :)
[02:47] <jon_kare> hei
[02:48] <jon_kare> (realname var forstelig)
[02:48] <Gagatan> traff p en annen tidl. kollega oppi lypa her ogs.. skalvise.. Ole Enge
[02:49] <Gagatan> og Magne kommer p middag.. fr vel forberede litt snart
[02:49] <hunger> Gagatan: Could you please switch to english? Your language causes my irc client to beep:-)
[02:50] <Gagatan> haha :)
[02:50] <Gagatan> hunger: sorry.. just said hello to some former co-worker of mine :)
[02:50] <jon_kare> 
[02:50] <hunger> Gagatan: No problem:-)
[02:50] <hunger> Hi pitti.
[02:51] <Gagatan> hunger: and I met a second former co-worker also skiing cross-country
[02:51] <pitti> hi again
[02:51] <hunger> jon_kare: Your text is displayed properly.
[02:55] <Simira> hehe
[03:04] <zakame> elmo: please sync linkchecker from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes ok, thanks :)
[04:12] <azeem> so Ubuntu changed xmakemol's xlibmesa-dev B-D to "libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev", while Debian did "xlibmesa-gl-dev"
[04:12] <azeem> is there a common denominator?
[04:34] <zakame> hm why is lesstif2 not in dapper yet?
[04:35] <zakame> (after its split from lesstif1-1, I mean)
[04:50] <pitti> zakame: s/yet/any more/
[04:51] <pitti> zakame: because it's crack, and we don't want/need it
[04:51] <pitti> zakame: btw, we threw it out in breezy already
[04:52] <zakame> pitti: indeed... well, was asking 'coz xmakemol seems to need it
[04:52] <pitti> zakame: that's universe too, so it shouldn't be a problem?
[04:53] <sebest> hi, when a bug in malone is target to be fixed in ubuntu without a specific release, should we close it if it's fixed in dapper?
[04:53] <sebest> i'm talking about bug 5690
[04:53] <pitti> sebest: yes, unless it's a security bug
[04:53] <sebest> it's just a typo in a manpage
[04:53] <sebest> so i close it
[04:53] <pitti> sebest: yes, thanks
[04:54] <zakame> pitti: chninkel has been trying to merge that package, and thus hit that snag
[05:03] <pitti> Kamion: here?
[05:03] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[05:04] <pitti> Kamion: is the current failure of live CD known? "User not known to the underlying authentication module" - and ubuntu doesn't autologin (gdm loop)
[05:05] <Kamion> no - that would be Mithrandir's problem I guess
[05:05] <Kamion> oh, gdm doesn't refuse to log in system users, does it?
[05:06] <pitti> Kamion: no idea, but the VCs don't work either, so I can't login
[05:06] <Kamion> we now set the ubuntu user to uid 999 to help out espresso
[05:06] <pitti> hm, maybe it's that
[05:06] <infinity> "not known to the underlying authentication module" sounds like PAM told GDM "nu uh" to me.
[05:06] <Kamion> MinimalUID=1000
[05:06] <Kamion> hmm
[05:06] <pitti> Kamion: I'll file a bug then and talk to him
[05:06] <Kamion> assign it to Mithrandir
[05:06] <pitti> yep, thanks
[05:06] <infinity> Or, GDM has crappy error messages. :)
[05:07] <pitti> infinity: that message is from VC1 (syslog, I guess)
[05:07] <pitti> gdm only tries to login and respawns without any message
[05:08] <Amaranth> pitti: what's wrong with lesstif2?
[05:08] <pitti> Amaranth: oh, we just got fed up with fixing security bugs in it, and we don't need it any more
[05:09] <pitti> Amaranth: we just needed it for xpdf
[05:09] <Amaranth> ah
[05:09] <Amaranth> well, less work for you, that's always good :)
[05:09] <zakame> ah indeed
[05:11] <irvin> pitti, must really have a boring job ;)
[05:11] <zakame> thanks pitti , Amaranth :)
[05:12] <azeem> pitti: so why didn't it get demoted to universe?
[05:12] <pitti> azeem: erm, I did?
[05:12] <pitti> oh, wait, hmm
[05:13] <pitti> azeem: it was in universe in breezy, I didn't touch it since then
[05:13] <azeem> well, people claimed it is not available, which sparked the discussion
[05:13] <pitti> no idea why it was removed completely
[05:13] <azeem> AIUI, it is built from a new source package now, which never got synced
[05:13] <azeem> but that is only from looking at IRC in passing
[05:13] <Kamion> lesstif2 is on the sync blacklist
[05:14] <Kamion> I imagine this is because the binaries were previously in a different source package, which tends to break syncs
[05:14] <Kamion> now that the binaries have been removed from lesstif1-1, it can probably be synced again
[05:14] <Kamion> talk to elmo to get the blacklist modified
[05:15] <Amaranth> so, maybe lesstif2 on monday, but still lots of security issues
[05:16] <Kamion> gtk-smooth-engine libxrender pygame xffm4 gnotime ispell-fi gcc-3.3 kgeography gnunet-gtk gutenprint initrd-netboot kde-icons-nuvola kde-style-lipstik mysql-dfsg-5.0 renderext zopeinterface allegro4.2 lesstif2 octave2.9 gal firefox-locale-ca firefox-locale-eu
[05:16] <Kamion> ^-- current sync blacklist
[05:16] <pitti> mysql-dfsg-5.0? ah, now I know why it isn't there
[05:17] <Amaranth> gutenprint :(
[05:17] <Amaranth> i thought gimpprint got dropped with the first sync
[05:17] <Kamion> generally all those are there because they broke for some reason, usually binaries also in other source packages
[05:17] <Amaranth> wait, i think seb128 was going to wait until after flight 1...
[05:20] <infinity> pitti: Yes, we need to get it unlisted on Monday, so I can start the transition. :)
[05:20] <pitti> infinity: I assume it was blacklisted due to mysql-common; I made 4.1 build -common right before the breezy release AFAIK
[05:21] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.  We'll sort all that.
[05:22] <pitti> sleep well
[05:28] <pitti> hmm, install CD asks me for a proxy although I told it to leave network unconfigured...
[05:28] <Kamion> known bug, reported many times, in Flight CD 2 release notes
[05:29] <Kamion> it's a consequence of the shift to apt-setup (although not unfixable)
[05:29] <pitti> ah, known
[05:32] <doko_> Kamion: wondering why gcc-3.3 is on the blacklist
[05:35] <Kamion> doko_: don't ask me
[05:35] <Kamion> I said above why (to my knowledge) packages are added to the blacklist
[05:35] <chninkel> where can we find the sync blacklist ?
[05:35] <Kamion> chninkel: I pasted it into IRC about twenty lines back
[05:36] <chninkel> Kamion: I saw, but I mean if I want to have the last sync blacklist
[05:36] <Kamion> it's not in any public location
[05:36] <chninkel> Kamion: ok
[05:38] <Kamion> maybe when the archive switches to launchpad it will be; there's no intrinsic reason for it to be private
[05:44] <zul> heylo
[05:46] <hunger> Hmmm... http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php claims ubuntu is not suitable for beginners.
[05:48] <tseng> people claim many things
[05:48] <jpatrick> pieces of land, etc
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> hunger, check their reasons, if they are logical and solvable, discuss.
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> hunger, things we can do nothing about, that can't be helped. and can just be that a fanboy wrote it.
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> there are a thousand of these things every month.
[05:52] <hunger> HiddenWolf: It is a distro-test recommended by prolinux.
[05:54] <jpatrick> hunger: that site recommends Gentoo to me
[05:59] <jon_kare> "Failed these criterias:" (sic!)
[05:59] <jon_kare> May require prior Linux knowledge
[05:59] <jon_kare> Not suitable for beginners
[06:00] <jon_kare> Requires partitioning knowledge
[06:00] <jon_kare> Exactly the same as for Debian.
[06:00] <jon_kare> When I answered honestly, it recommended Ubuntu *and* Debian
[06:00] <jon_kare> I suspect the test doesn't know the difference
[06:02] <LaserJock> sorry, what is the URL for that test?
[07:04] <pitti> good night
[07:09] <chninkel> does someone know why GLw was dropped in mesa packages ?
[07:19] <Amaranth> chninkel: GLw?
[07:21] <chninkel> Amaranth: seems to be opengl for lesstif
[07:21] <chninkel> Amaranth: from mesa changelog
[07:21] <chninkel> mesa (6.4.0-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
[07:21] <chninkel>  * Resynchronise with Debian; drop GLw (lesstif) and DirectFB support.
[07:22] <Amaranth> is it in another package?
[07:23] <chninkel> I didn't find
[07:36] <\sh> elmo: please sync omnievents from debian, dropping ubuntu changes thx
[08:01] <nekohayo> does anyone know the *reason* why gecko-based browsers are borked? (I'm just waiting patiently for a fix, but in the meantime I am curious)
[08:14] <nekohayo> oh wait.. the browsers started working again.. hurrah :) nevermind
[08:56] <marcin`> hello guys
[08:57] <marcin`> texinfo package in dapper is currently broken
[08:57] <zul> please open a bug
[08:57] <marcin`> postinst script says that there is no `update_ls_files` command
[08:57] <marcin`> could someone tell me what is this command from?
[09:22] <tuhl> when will be see a working beagle nautilus integration in drapper?
[09:22] <HiddenWolf> tuhl, it's dapper
[09:22] <HiddenWolf> tuhl, and ask upstream
[09:23] <Burgundavia> tuhl, not for dapper
[09:23] <tuhl> ok
[09:24] <tuhl> while updateing I just saw a deinstallation on beagle
[09:24] <Burgundavia> tuhl, I believe the nautilus stuff is already there, we are just not going to ship beagle by default
[09:24] <slomo> tuhl: that's another problem... i'll fix it now, thanks for noticing :)
[09:25] <tuhl> slomo: can I reinstall beagle right now?
[09:25] <slomo> no, not yet
[09:25] <tuhl> slomo: ok I wait
[09:26] <slomo> maybe already in one hour :)
[09:27] <tuhl> slomo: will you raise the version number?
[09:27] <tuhl> tu ubuntu3?
[09:29] <tuhl> what kind of search mechanism is used without beagle? find and grep?
[09:35] <slomo> tuhl: no, it will raise the version number of gmime2.1 / libgmime2.1-cil
[09:35] <jbailey> Anyone know how edubuntu solves the swap-over-nfs/nbd problem?  Or do they just not bother with swap?
[09:38] <neuralis> Burgundavia: i seem to recall there were plans to ship beagle with dapper, weren't there?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> neuralis, yes, but then we went for stability
[09:39] <Burgundavia> and less memory leaks
[09:39] <Burgundavia> I expect dapper+!
[09:39] <Burgundavia> 1
[09:40] <neuralis> Burgundavia: probably fair, beagle isn't quite the shining beacon of stability
[09:40] <tuhl> NLD 10 will contian it
[09:40] <tuhl> contain
[09:40] <Burgundavia> when is that due?
[09:40] <\sh> NLD?
[09:40] <neuralis> \sh: novell linux desktop
[09:40] <\sh> ah...
[09:40] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Stability good, occasionally. =)
[09:41] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Of course that means all the pent up frustration would be let out for +1. =)
[09:41] <Kamion> hmm, must figure out if I can get user_xattr turned on by default in the dapper installer
[09:41] <Kamion> that request's been on the table since Sydney
[09:41] <\sh> then it makes sense to have something like this in .... they need to increase their support fees ,)
[09:41] <Burgundavia> jbailey, I expect xen and beagle and all the crackish things to fly
[09:41] <Kamion> (and is needed for beagle, I'm told)
[09:42] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Dapper +1 also has major toolchain love planned for it.
[09:42] <Burgundavia> Kamion, don't think it is needed anymore
[09:42] <neuralis> Kamion: it's not strictly required, but there's hellpain without it.
[09:42] <Burgundavia> jbailey, dapper+1 is going to be so broken
[09:42] <\sh> jbailey: major toolchain? what is coming for dapper?
[09:42] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, more than breezy? ;)
[09:42] <tuhl> NLD : April
[09:43] <jbailey> \sh: gcc-4.1 bring a pile of new Java love.  glibc-2.4 is a year and a bit of development effort.
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Kamion, beaglewiki says "optional but recommended", then talks about a fallback sqlite backend
[09:43] <jbailey> \sh: And so far noone's said anything bad about dropping pre-i686
[09:43] <Kamion> Has there been any progress on fixing mono/powerpc? I see it's still uninstallable.
[09:43] <neuralis> Kamion: read that as 'whenever we get around to shipping beagle, we really, really want to have user_xattr turned on' ;)
[09:44] <jbailey> \sh: With any luck, that will also bring multiarch to the archive.
[09:44] <Kamion> neuralis: these things being what they are, doing it in advance is good (since fresh-install is the only point when we get to change people's partitioning options)
[09:44] <neuralis> Kamion: aye, agreed.
[09:44] <slomo> Kamion: it's most probably a buildd problem... it can't be reproduced on other machines than the buildd, no matter how similar they are
[09:44] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, afaik beagle (when I tried it) only manages to find things like gaim logs and e-d-s data without xattr
[09:45] <\sh> jbailey: but it won't be any stress like breezy and gcc3.3 to gcc3.4/4.0?
[09:45] <slomo> Kamion: and on the buildd even older mono version, even in a breezy chroot ftbfs
[09:45] <jbailey> \sh: Anytime there's a major toolchain decision, there's always stress.
[09:45] <jbailey> \sh: The problem is that you can't forsee what the stress will be.
[09:45] <\sh> .oO(if jbailey says "Yes" now, then I have to find a good weapons shop(
[09:45] <slomo> jbailey: what major changes are planned for glibc 2.4? :)
[09:45] <Kamion> slomo: kernel issue? the buildds are running 2.6.8.1, iirc
[09:46] <doko_> slomo: ssp
[09:46] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: ok, I'll see if I can turn it on in partman soon, then. Last time I tried it was unduly painful to do, but I could try to make it easier upstream.
[09:46] <\sh> jbailey: ok so the normal stress...but not "transition stress"
[09:47] <jbailey> slomo: It will be possible to audit the linker.  We'll drop LinuxThreads.  A bunch of internal cleanups.
[09:47] <jbailey> \sh: Well, consider that this last C++ allocator transition wasn't expected.
[09:47] <slomo> Kamion: no idea, i have no way to make extensive tests... i have no ppc64... but tseng has written a mail to lamont and infinity about it
[09:47] <jbailey> \sh: That's what I mean by it's not predictable.
[09:47] <\sh> jbailey: well...it wasn't much :)
[09:47] <jbailey> Sure, luckily.
[09:47] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, last time I saw beagle in action it caused jdub's ext3 to give out during a badger talk due to xattr mess, so i'm not pushing too hard. :)
[09:47] <\sh> jbailey: lets see when we can drop python2.3 completly
[09:47] <jbailey> =)
[09:48] <Kamion> slomo: oh, hang on, what is it that fails to build?
[09:48] <Kamion> mono_1.1.9.2-1ubuntu1_powerpc built fine
[09:48] <Kamion> oh, bleh, ls --version
[09:49] <Kamion> (-v, rather)
[09:49] <doko_> \sh: there exists a libstdc++-v7 branch ;-P
[09:49] <neuralis> Burgundavia: on a related note, has any thought been given to shipping f-spot?
[09:49] <\sh> jbailey: btw...do you want to talk about cdbs this month in MOTU school?
[09:50] <slomo> Kamion: mono 1.1.10 and above were tested by mvo on davis (?) and all failed (and 1.1.10 failed in a breezy chroot too)... 1.1.10 worked fine before everywhere... but someone else with an ppc64 could build mono without problems on a ppc64 with flight2 and very similar hardware... the bootstrapping works fine but at the point where the JIT comes into play it segfaults after some time
[09:50] <jbailey> \sh: IIRC, I suggested March. =)
[09:50] <jbailey> doko_: Are they using it to implement C++0x stuff?
[09:51] <\sh> jbailey: well..ok...then I will prepare something about pbuilder and chroots maybe
[09:51] <\sh> or actually about debian development tools 
[09:51] <doko_> jbailey: didn't look yet, at least it has a new string implementation
[09:51] <Kamion> ah, well at least davis is a machine I can get at
[09:51] <jbailey> \sh: If you leave chroots to another month, I'll probably finish my dchroot tools sometime this month. =)
[09:52] <jbailey> \sh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/bzrtree/dchrootmgr/
[09:52] <slomo> Kamion: if you find something new please tell me :)
[09:53] <Kamion> sure - I've not touched mono before though, so don't expect too much
[09:54] <\sh> jbailey: I was thinking about writing something for this as well :) 
[09:54] <jbailey> \sh: You're welcome to hack on it and feed me patches. =)
[09:54] <jbailey> \sh: (or do your own and I can abandon it)
[09:55] <\sh> jbailey: how do you want to include our "non root chroot" stuff? like sudoers and passwd <first user in the admin group?>
[09:55] <jbailey> \sh: What do you mean?
[09:55] <slomo> Kamion: well, even upstream have no idea what this could be ;) but as i fails even in different chroots i guess it could only be a kernel problem
[09:55] <jbailey> \sh: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=345488 is a patch I did for dchroot that might also be useful
[09:56] <\sh> jbailey: this is quite nice for biarch machines :) 
[09:56] <Kamion> you could depend on user-setup and use /usr/lib/user-setup/user-setup-apply /target or something if you just want to duplicate what the installer does
[09:57] <\sh> jbailey: but I was talking about http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot :)
[09:57] <Kamion> (substitute path for /target)
[09:57] <jbailey> \sh: It will copy those files in.  Update them on a regular basis with ch-refresh
[09:58] <jbailey> \sh: Longer term they can either be synced in automatically with some sort of FUSE code to overlay, or a libnss module could be written that proxies authentication bits to the main system.
[09:59] <jbailey> (I don't think you can bind mount files)
[09:59] <\sh> jbailey: I was thinking especially about the sed call to shadow and then sudo tee it to chroot_dir/etc/shadow
[10:00] <jbailey> \sh: That's what I'm saying is all part of the refresh bit
[10:00] <jbailey> Oh, if you want a different password in the chroot from normal?
[10:00] <jbailey> No.
[10:00] <jbailey> Don't ever give root inside a chroot to someone you don't want to have it outside of the chroot.
[10:00] <jbailey> It's one of the ways that Linux is horribly broken, it doesn't have a segmented security infrastructure.
[10:01] <jbailey> If you want that, use Novell, Windows NT or the Hurd.
[10:01] <jbailey> Novell Netware, rather.
[10:01] <tuhl> rsbac
[10:02] <neuralis> jbailey: or xen. 
[10:02] <jbailey> tuhl: I didn't think with rsbac you could delete root?
[10:02] <\sh> jbailey: I have other hobbies then using novell netware :) I just abandoned novell netware in 1988
[10:02] <jbailey> \sh: I still have my Master CNE. =)
[10:03] <Burgundavia> neuralis, that is jdub's balliwick. I suspect we are waiting for dapper+1 to make the mono hit worth it
[10:03] <tuhl> jbailey: what do you mean by delete root
[10:04] <neuralis> Burgundavia: yes, that's what i expected. the mono "killer app" trifecta is tomboy, f-spot, beagle. it'd be nice to ship all three eventually.
[10:04] <tuhl> i think we need mono 
[10:04] <tuhl> banshee
[10:04] <jbailey> tuhl: Meaning that I want a system where I have no single user who ever has access  to everything.  No user should ever be able to see all of the kernels memory, or all of the filesystem, or be able to request access arbitrarily to IO ports.  Inside the kernel itself, these same truths should hold.
[10:04] <jbailey> tuhl: So that UID 0 means nothing in particular
[10:04] <Burgundavia> neuralis, yes
[10:04] <tuhl> jbailey: possible with rsbac as far as i know
[10:04] <Burgundavia> tuhl, banshee is debatable
[10:05] <\sh> jbailey: well...when you have ever tried to implement an additional LPT port in novell netware 3 with a different irq then 7 you were fcked, but it should had beed usable in netware 3...and it took me 4 days and 3 netware technicians to tell them netware 3 is not working with the netware certified hardware :)
[10:05] <\sh> s/beed/been/
[10:05] <Burgundavia> tuhl, kind of sad actually, to watch both rb and banshee do essientailly the same thing at the same time
[10:05] <jbailey> \sh: Eh, I did it a number of times.
[10:05] <jbailey> \sh: I ran some really large operations on Netware. =)
[10:05] <\sh> jbailey: with netware 3?
[10:06] <jbailey> \sh: Usually Netware 4.  Netware 3 only went up to 250 users.
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: agreed
[10:06] <jbailey> Not a "large installation" by any stretch of the imagination.
[10:06] <Burgundavia> neuralis, even the duplication of crazy things like the ipod libraries
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: yes, i've been wondering about that
[10:06] <jbailey> tuhl: Interesting, I'll have to look at that again, then.
[10:06] <\sh> jbailey: netware 4 i never touched :)
[10:06] <tuhl> i think ubunto needs mono for being competitive to other distros
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: seems like an enormous duplication of effort
[10:07] <tuhl> jbailey: I know the author of RSBAC
[10:07] <tuhl> RSBAC is plugable
[10:07] <jbailey> tuhl: The amount of work it would take to partition up the kernel internally would be huge.
[10:07] <neuralis> Burgundavia: otoh, i can't stand either rb or banshee, so it doesn't affect me as much.
[10:07] <Burgundavia> neuralis, muine user myself
[10:07] <tuhl> you can nearly implement every ACCESS Controll mechanism
[10:07] <neuralis> Burgundavia: likewise.
[10:08] <tuhl> jbailey: look a openvz
[10:08] <tuhl> another low overhead alternative
[10:08] <tuhl> for separating environments
[10:08] <\sh> tuhl: no we need something like mono and sharpdevelop for being competitive to other distros
[10:08] <tuhl> \sh: why like?
[10:09] <jbailey> tuhl: The trick isn't that I want separate environments.  I want to know that a poorly written driver can't arbitrarily ask for resources that it has no rights to.
[10:09] <tuhl> jbailey: ok
[10:09] <\sh> tuhl: because we should think about a ide which runs a) with pure mono and b) it should be useable on linux/unix and windows...
[10:10] <\sh> tuhl: including a compatible windows.forms interace and ui builder
[10:10] <\sh> interface even
[10:10] <tuhl> why not porintg mono develop to windows
[10:10] <neuralis> \sh: that hardly has anything to do with keeping us competitive with other distributions.
[10:10] <tuhl> evo runs already
[10:11] <neuralis> \sh: monodevelop is an application for a highly specific, narrow market segment
[10:11] <tuhl> GNOME will needs Mono for building Desktop apps faster that in C/C++
[10:11] <\sh> tuhl: because gtk on windows is evil...I'm using gimp e.g. on every windows machine i had hands on..and it was, to be honest, not comparable with the linux version...it was at least 3 times slower then on linux...
[10:12] <tuhl> \sh this can be tuned
[10:12] <neuralis> tuhl: gnome is unsure about embracing mono for political reasons.
[10:12] <slomo> tuhl: why does it need mono for that? python is good for this too ;)
[10:12] <tuhl> slomo: no 
[10:13] <tuhl> one languaga is not fitting to all problems
[10:13] <\sh> neuralis: well...sharpdevelop gives you a nice interface for vb.net and c# including a very good forms designer
[10:13] <\sh> neuralis: importing new .net classes and libs is very easy..and it has a wide audience...and it's free
[10:14] <slomo> tuhl: yes, that's why i prefer having python and mono (for c#, boo, whatever)... but well, not very useful to argue about this *shrug*
[10:14] <\sh> neuralis: http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx
[10:14] <neuralis> \sh: sure, but i'm not sure that adds up to a big argument about being competitive with other distributions.
[10:14] <tuhl> slomo: that is the reason why I promotet the php4mono compiler
[10:15] <tuhl> neuralis: we need mono for getting competitive apps on GNOME
[10:15] <\sh> neuralis: it can make linux/unix in general a competitive development solution for windows and linux/unix apps...forgetting windows xp 
[10:15] <tuhl> \sh: I agree
[10:15] <\sh> tuhl: you don't need mono...you could use python as well
[10:16] <tuhl> no python has a central interpreter lock
[10:16] <Burgundavia> \sh, yes you could, but people are using mono, so you might as well embrace it
[10:16] <tuhl> this is a design flaw
[10:16] <neuralis> \sh: of course, but that has nothing to do with competitiveness with other linux distributions :)
[10:16] <tuhl> ADA was the latest development language :-)
[10:17] <neuralis> tuhl: well, it's arguably a design flaw
[10:17] <tuhl> the last I meant
[10:17] <neuralis> tuhl: and in any case, getting competitive apps for gnome with mono is still a questionable topic
[10:17] <tuhl> neuralis: yes and you need to manny library bindings in a non Mono world
[10:18] <\sh> Burgundavia: ironpython will be the change :)
[10:18] <slomo> \sh: and it has a not very friendly license iirc... but better ask ajmitch about it, he took a look at it ;)
[10:18] <neuralis> \sh: pypy will be the change ;)
[10:19] <tuhl> without mono we will have to provide bindings for all interpreters / langiages separately
[10:19] <tuhl> this sucks all enegry out of the OSS movement
[10:20] <tuhl> every year a news language (perl, python, php, ruby, ...) and for all languages a bindung to TK, gtk, motif, Windows, 
[10:20] <neuralis> tuhl: the community at large, starting with gnome, still isn't convinced mono is kosher.
[10:21] <tuhl> where is a problem with ISO standardized byte code enviroments
[10:21] <Kamion> slomo: well, I found that the failure is non-deterministic ...
[10:21] <mjg59> Red Hat aren't likely to ship Mono unless it becomes a business requirement
[10:21] <tuhl> I am not speaking of ASP.NET 
[10:21] <\sh> tuhl: well...whoever invented bindings for gtk or qt to php..he was on crack...
[10:21] <slomo> Kamion: yes, that is nothing new ;) it fails at compiling one of the first .cs files, but not always the same
[10:21] <Kamion> ok
[10:22] <Kamion> you didn't tell me that :)
[10:22] <\sh> mjg59: most likely they are waiting for the run to the court of MS and Novell ;)
[10:22] <slomo> Kamion: no, i didn't thought about it... sorry
[10:24] <tuhl> slomo: what about beagle?
[10:25] <slomo> tuhl: update your sources and try to install it... should work now unless you're on ppc
[10:26] <tuhl> slomo: ok
[10:26] <doko_> \sh: does ooqstart actually work for you?
[10:27] <\sh> doko_: I'll see tomorrow when I install latest dapper cd
[10:28] <\sh> doko_: right now I have only one dapper chroot on amd64 and ssh -X to amd64 machine and dchroot to dapper chroot will give me troubles showing remotely the output of X apps
[10:28] <slomo> tuhl: btw, what exactly do you want? everybody will continue to use the language and runtime enviromnent he likes most and feels best-suited for the problem *shrug* when someone needs scheme bindings for gtk let him do it :) mono definitely isn't the only and perfect solution for everything
[10:29] <mjg59> \sh: Do you have the same home directory in the chroot as outside it? Is your DISPLAY variable still set in the chroot?
[10:29] <tuhl> slomo: we will see.... installing beagle....
[10:29] <\sh> mjg59: yes
[10:32] <\sh> well..actually I can't install it strange
[10:33] <\sh> ah yes...it's not build yet for amd64 :)
[10:33] <\sh> doko_: what is not working?
[10:34] <\sh> mjg59: this is the error message :)
[10:34] <\sh> (dapper_chroot)shermann@amd64-home:~/packages/dapper/ooqstart/new$ xterm
[10:34] <\sh> xterm: Error 32, errno 0: Success
[10:34] <\sh> Reason: get_pty: not enough ptys
[10:34] <tuhl> slomo: beagle seems to work - thanks
[10:34] <mjg59> \sh: Uh. And do any other X apps work?
[10:37] <\sh> mjg59: give me one moment..I have to break my chroot completly :) 
[10:37] <\sh> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop *gnarf*
[10:38] <Kamion> \sh: mount /dev/pts?
[10:38] <\sh> Kamion: it's mounted correctly
[10:38] <Kamion> or bind-mount /dev and /dev/pts from the real root
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount --bind /home /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/home
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount --bind /tmp /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/tmp
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount -t proc proc /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/proc
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount -t devpts devpts /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/dev/pts
[10:40] <\sh> where $MOUNTPOINT is set to $whatever chroot I want..example dapper dapper_i386 breezy hoary
[10:40] <Kamion> you need /dev too
[10:41] <\sh> Kamion: it's working when i'm directly on the machine with a running x server...
[10:42] <\sh> Kamion: so when a monitor is attached ... 
[11:05] <sabdf1> off to uganda - cheers all
[11:08] <\sh> mjg59: gedit e.g. works 
[11:08] <mjg59> \sh: You have an issue with /dev, then
[11:11] <\sh> mjg59: yepp.../dev/pty* are not created
[11:12] <Kamion> \sh: bind-mounting /dev from the real root should give you /dev/ptmx, which will make Unix98 ptys work
[11:13] <\sh> Kamion: this should be mentioned as well on the wiki page
[11:14] <Kamion> go forth and edit the wiki page, then ... I didn't write it
[11:15] <\sh> Kamion: it's done already right now :)