[12:03] <\sh> Riddell: works for me
[12:03] <Riddell> \sh: running ./kde-hal-device-manager?
[12:03] <\sh> Riddell: no...but trying kpybt
[12:03] <\sh> moment...
[12:03] <Riddell> yeah it compiles
[12:04] <\sh> ah did you use kapplication instead of qapplication?
[12:04] <Riddell> hmm, no I did not
[12:04] <\sh> Riddell: for kde you should
[12:04] <Riddell> right
[12:05] <\sh>     about=KAboutData(prgName,prgName,prgVersion,prgDesc,lic,"&copy; 2005")
[12:05] <\sh>     about.addAuthor(authorname,str(authordesc),authormail)
[12:05] <\sh>     KCmdLineArgs.init(sys.argv,about)
[12:05] <\sh>     app=KApplication()
[12:05] <\sh>     mainWindow=KPyBTMainWindow(mainpath)
[12:05] <\sh>     mainWindow.show()
[12:05] <\sh>     app.setMainWidget(mainWindow)
[12:05] <\sh>     app.exec_loop()
[12:05] <\sh> this is the main fragment in __main__ for the starter :)
[12:05] <Riddell> ah thanks, was hoping I wouldn't have to look that up :)
[12:06] <\sh> Riddell: the variables for kaboutdata are set before :)
[12:07] <\sh> Riddell: and provide a Makefile :)
[12:07] <\sh> because the for building the app it should rebuild all .ui stuff :)
[12:07] <\sh> so you don't have to carry unused .py files with you :)
[12:09] <\sh> Riddell: but I'm glad to see you playing with python and qt/kde stuff :) it's so easy to implement nice apps with those tools :)
[12:09] <Riddell> oh yes, it's lovely
[12:09] <Riddell> the hal person doesn't want it in hal though :(
[12:11] <\sh> why not?
[12:11] <Riddell> doesn't want to have the same code in twice just for two different widget sets, and it's not that useful to end users anyway
[12:14] <allee> ah, an discussion about hal ...
[12:14] <allee> Riddell: any idea how best to debug what media events kfile_media gets?
[12:15] <Riddell> allee: nope, I don't think I even know what kfile_media is
[12:15] <allee> I try to figure out gphoto2 supported camera do not generate a pop up (works fine here with usb storage kameras)
[12:17] <allee> Riddell: I added a service type for ServiceTypes=media/removable_unmounted,media/camera_unmounted
[12:17] <allee> and now digikam download dialog can be started when a usb disk is pluged in
[12:17] <allee> but ServiceTypes=media/gphoto2camera
[12:18] <allee> gives nothing when a gphoto2 supported camera gets pluged in :(
[12:19] <\sh> Riddell: then package the stuff by yourself and bring it into ubuntu :)
[12:19] <\sh> Riddell: the gtk ui is separate from the normal hal package right?
[12:20] <Riddell> it's part of the hal sources
[12:20] <\sh> Riddell: but a separate package?
[12:20] <Riddell> yes, separate binary package
[12:20] <\sh> so you could seed your package for kubuntu
[12:20] <Riddell> certainly could
[12:21] <\sh> (if it's seeded anyways for ubuntu, the gtk ui)
[12:22] <Riddell> it's in main
[12:23] <Riddell> trouble with kde-hal-device-manager is that python-dcop brings in glib and stuff, but we have that in anyway from gstreamer
[12:23] <Verwilst> hm, how do i make xine play .mov again? :p
[12:23] <Riddell> Verwilst: get w32codecs
[12:23] <Verwilst> i have :p
[12:24] <Verwilst> maybe i'll just copy the binaries from the player site
[12:24] <Verwilst> mplayer*
[12:25] <\sh> Riddell: are you sure you need python-dcop?
[12:25] <\sh> Riddell: have a look here: http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2005-May/010265.html
[12:26] <\sh> Riddell: pykde brings his own dcop implementation as far as I know
[12:26] <teprrr> but wasn't that hal-device-manager qt-only?
[12:27] <\sh> teprrr: because riddell missed kdepyuic :)
[12:28] <teprrr> \sh, ahh. okay :)
[12:30] <\sh> Riddell: btw...dapper gets now a new python-kde3 package where I fixed some dependencies for python-kde3-dev
[12:32] <Riddell> \sh: just saw that coming by on dapper-changes
[12:34] <teprrr>   xmkmf: Depends: imake but it is not going to be installed
[12:34] <teprrr>   xutils: Depends: imake but it is not going to be installed
[12:34] <teprrr> still no luck with these?
[12:34] <Tm_T> teprrr <3
[12:35] <Tm_T> whooops
[12:35] <teprrr> btw, akregator has gotten an update but I see nothing new on gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.changes.dapper feed.. why's that?
[12:35] <teprrr> Tm_T ;)
[12:36] <\sh> aren't we using the akregator from kdenetwork?
[12:36] <teprrr> akregator is in kdepim :)
[12:36] <teprrr> but hmm, so if something new happens on metapackage kdepim, all the packages get "updated"?
[12:36] <\sh> well...kdepim then
[12:36] <\sh> no
[12:37] <\sh> only if something is changing in kdepim source package :) then yes :)
[12:37] <Tm_T> /var/lib/dpkg/info/texinfo.postinst: line 56: update_ls_files: command not found
[12:37] <Tm_T> install problem
[12:37] <\sh> Tm_T: it's fixed in 4.8-3 
[12:38] <Tm_T> \sh: Setting up texinfo (4.8-3)
[12:38] <\sh> uh..then 4.8-4
[12:38] <Tm_T> :p
[12:38] <\sh> which is not there in debian ;)
[12:38] <Tm_T> and that comes...
[12:38] <\sh> hmm...but why I was installing it today without any problems?
[12:38] <\sh> I just tested it
[12:38] <Tm_T> heh
[12:39] <Tm_T> well, I'll wait
[12:39] <\sh> I only saw the bugreport and debians maintainer talking about a fix...4.8-4 but 4.8-3 was the last one in the debian archives and nothing in incoming
[12:39] <teprrr> \sh, well. um, afaik kdepim isn't anything but metapackage on ubuntu, and it's a module name in kde..
[12:40] <\sh> Files:
[12:40] <\sh>  f3e627eadadedcbb43dc5c5a0fed7bfd 1579 kdepim_3.5.0-0ubuntu3.dsc
[12:40] <\sh>  3e1d7613173f369c69ec95ac116738c4 16251713 kdepim_3.5.0.orig.tar.gz
[12:40] <\sh>  cffe015c6c646bf5bd274f3ac97d66ca 154938 kdepim_3.5.0-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
[12:40] <\sh> no it's a source package name :)
[12:40] <teprrr> hmm.. :p
[12:40] <teprrr> where can I get that?
[12:40] <\sh> kdepim the meta package is in universe (breezy that is) and is a real meta package :)
[12:41] <\sh> teprrr: hmm? running breezy or dapper?
[12:41] <teprrr> \sh, dapper
[12:41] <\sh> teprrr: the source you will get if you vi /etc/apt/sources.list and add a deb-src line the same way as the normal deb line
[12:41] <\sh> then apt-get update
[12:42] <\sh> and apt-get source <package name> e.g. apt-get source akregator will download kdepim_3.5.0-0ubuntu3*
[12:43] <teprrr> well, mmh. yes I know that way.. but umm
[12:43] <teprrr> well, umh, mmh
[12:43] <teprrr> gonna watch shield first :)
[12:43] <\sh> to get the source of the kdepim meta package
[12:43] <\sh> is as well in the kdepim source package :)
[12:43] <\sh> check the debian/control
[12:45] <teprrr> yup, gonna check it
[12:51] <teprrr> mhm, source didn't went into /usr/src.. :o
[12:52] <\sh> no it's going directly there where you start the apt-get source command
[12:52] <\sh> there is a .dsc
[12:52] <\sh> a .diff.gz
[12:52] <\sh> a .orig.tar.gz
[12:52] <\sh> and a directory with the source named like kdepim-3.5.0
[12:52] <\sh> it's not like redhat where it goes into /usr/src/redhat/SRPMS/
[12:52] <\sh> or something like this
[12:54] <teprrr> ah, yes, I recalled it falsely
[12:57] <teprrr> umh, why on earth the whole kdepim is packaged into one package?!
[12:57] <\sh> no..
[12:58] <\sh> the binaries are splitted into several packages as you can see in debian/control
[12:58] <\sh> the source but is one big fat file..ask KDE.org why it is like this :)
[12:58] <teprrr> yeah, got it now.. so it's the original source file
[12:59] <\sh> the problem right now is, that e.g. amarok or kopete have as well separate single point releases which are not in the release files of the kde dist 
[12:59] <\sh> teprrr: yes
[12:59] <teprrr> mmh, afaik kopete is in kde
[12:59] <teprrr> amarok is in extragear, so it's not included in distribution at all
[01:00] <\sh> right...I meant akregator :)
[01:00] <Riddell> akregator only historyic
[01:00] <Riddell> akregator only historyically I think
[01:00] <Riddell> before it went into KDE
[01:00] <Riddell> kopete did have a separate release to fix a problem with MSN chaning their protocol, we just patched it
[01:00] <teprrr> yup, akregator was before 3.4 outside too
[01:01] <teprrr> yup, thats the case
[01:19] <teprrr> mmh, where has ssh-askpass disappeared?
[01:30] <\sh>  /usr/lib/ssh/x11-ssh-askpass
[01:30] <\sh> is in ssh-askpass package
[01:30] <\sh> or ssh-askpass-gnome or ssh-askpass-fullscreen
[01:37] <Riddell> hello poningru 
[01:38] <poningru> Hi
[01:38] <poningru> woah
[01:39] <poningru> Riddell saying hi to me?
[01:40] <Riddell> unless there's another poningru around here :)
[01:40] <Riddell> poningru: going to join our rocking team of KDE MOTU?
[01:41] <poningru> hehe I would love to
[01:41] <poningru> if only I had the time
[01:41] <poningru> actually if you had some mule work for me to do I would love to do it
[01:42] <poningru> see if someone wanted something tested etc.
[01:42] <poningru> wait is there a different kde-motu team than the ubuntu motu team?
[01:42] <poningru> err kubuntu motu team
[01:43] <Riddell> KDE MOTU is one of the teams that makes up the MOTU
[01:43] <Riddell> there is also GNOME MOTU and various other affiliations
[01:43] <poningru> ah gotcha
[01:43] <Riddell> we're all the same MOTU though
[01:43] <poningru> right
[01:45] <\sh> there is always some time to spend on k-ubuntu :)
[01:45] <Riddell> mule work.. want to fill in my tax return form? :)
[01:45] <amu> \sh: yes :) 
[01:45] <\sh> shock 
[01:45] <sealne> Riddell: you mean you have money? :)
[01:45] <\sh> AMU !
[01:46] <\sh> amu: back from holidays?
[01:46] <amu> btw. the airport extreme runs under linux 
[01:46] <poningru> heck I will probably do it
[01:46] <Riddell> sealne: only until Her Maj's Customs and Excise take it off me
[01:46] <poningru> Riddell: is it anything bigger than a 1040ez?
[01:46] <sealne> altho i suppose IRS don't care
[01:46] <amu> \sh: yep
[01:46] <Riddell> poningru: hmm?  what's one of those?
[01:46] <poningru> I thought you were in the US
[01:46] <Riddell> no, Scotland
[01:47] <\sh> amu: short trip :)
[01:47] <\sh> hmmm..just updating remotely my amd64 to dapper...and hope the kernel is not breaking my machine
[01:47] <poningru> could have sworn you wrote something about hawaii or something
[01:47] <poningru> must have been someone else then
[01:47] <\sh> Riddell is everywhere 
[01:47] <Riddell> poningru: the conference in hawii is using kubuntu, but I'm not going
[01:48] <poningru> ah
[01:48] <crimsun> \sh: I've considered that, but my pbuilder is on the opposite coast of the US, so I'm "playing it safe."
[01:48] <\sh> crimsun: hehe :)
[01:49] <Riddell> poningru: if you want to download and test a daily live or install CD that's always welcome
[01:49] <sealne> Riddell: any news on a vote? i'd kinda like to know wether i'm having a holiday this summer or not :)
[01:49] <poningru> well ofcourse I do that
[01:49] <Riddell> sealne: no news at all I'm afraid, I'm a bit annoyed that one hasn't started, I asked why and got no response
[01:50] <poningru> flight 2, two partitions: kubuntu, ubuntu
[01:50] <poningru> 2 gigs each
[01:50] <Riddell> poningru: daily build, not flight 2 that's old stuff now
[01:50] <poningru> hmm
[01:50] <poningru> how does one do that?
[01:50] <poningru> linky?
[01:50] <sealne> Riddell: thats a bit shit, delaying for a reason can be justified but...
[01:50] <Riddell> poningru: grab it from cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu
[01:51] <poningru> awesome
[01:51] <sealne> and its not like we are the only ones in this situation
[01:51] <crimsun> I see janimo has already uploaded a newer ivman. Cool.
[01:51] <poningru> how fast are those updated?
[01:51] <Riddell> poningru: every day at about 05:00UTC
[01:52] <poningru> nice
[01:52] <poningru> will do
[01:52] <poningru> you know what then, maybe I should go do that right now
[01:52] <Riddell> poningru: usually they get tested just before we make a flight release but it's a lot better to have people testing them between flight releases so we know it's broken before we want to make a flight CD
[01:52] <poningru> hmm true
[01:53] <poningru> is there a changelog somewhere?
[01:53] <poningru> to know what to test etc.
[01:53] <Riddell> poningru: dapper-changes mailing list :)
[01:53] <poningru> hehe cool
[01:54] <sealne> ooh didn't even know they existed
[01:56] <\sh> KlistviewSearchLine?
[01:57] <\sh> is it 3.5? or as well in 3.4.x?
[01:57] <\sh> because pykde supports still only 3.4.x api
[01:57] <sealne> apparently neither does korundum
[01:57] <poningru> whats katch?
[01:57] <sealne> just something i'm working on
[01:58] <sealne> forensic analysis
[01:58] <Riddell> ah, got it working with a quick addListView()
[01:58] <Riddell> and voila, a searchable list view.  nice
[02:01] <poningru> when does expresso land?
[02:02] <Riddell> bah, kdepyuic doesn't work with KListViewSearchLineWidget 
[02:03] <Riddell> passes the wrong arguments to the contructor
[02:03] <\sh> Riddell: then there is something wrong with the sip stu
[02:03] <\sh> ff
[02:04] <Riddell> \sh: any idea where I report that as a bug?
[02:05] <Riddell> poningru: about a week before release probably :)
[02:05] <poningru> hehe
[02:05] <\sh> Riddell: yes 
[02:06] <\sh> Riddell: riverbanks computing..
[02:06] <\sh> Riddell: http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
[02:06] <\sh> on this list
[02:06] <\sh> I don't know if they have a bts for this
[02:07] <poningru> is livecd testing necessary?
[02:08] <poningru> well that important I mean
[02:08] <crimsun> I'd say so, yes.
[02:08] <Riddell> NameError: global name 'KIconButton' is not defined
[02:08] <Riddell> waa
[02:09] <Riddell> poningru: of course, we need the live CD to work as well as the install one
[02:09] <\sh> KIconButton ?
[02:10] <\sh> I don't find any kiconbutton in the kdeui class list ,()
[02:10] <Riddell> why is KIconButton in kio/kfile?
[02:10] <Riddell> that's crazy
[02:10] <\sh> what?
[02:10] <Riddell> http://developer.kde.org/documentation/library/cvs-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kio/kfile/html/classKIconButton.html
[02:11] <\sh> no
[02:11] <\sh> it's a joke, right?
[02:11] <\sh> A pushbutton for choosing an icon. A push button that allows selection of an icon. 
[02:11] <\sh>  Pressing on the button will open a KIconDialog for the user to select an icon. The current icon will be displayed on the button.
[02:11] <\sh> lol
[02:11] <\sh> well...
[02:12] <\sh> actually it should belong in kdeui
[02:12] <\sh> or it should be a private class only for kicondialog
[02:13] <\sh> Unpacking replacement kmail ...
[02:13] <\sh> Errors were encountered while processing:
[02:13] <\sh>  /var/cache/apt/archives/krita_1%3a1.4.2-3ubuntu6_amd64.deb
[02:13] <\sh> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[02:13] <\sh> ah now it goes...after apt-get -f install
[02:26] <Riddell> now I'm stuck on how to use KIconLoader's SmallIconSet() from pykde
[02:26] <Riddell> it's not a member function
[02:33] <\sh> what about QPixmap KIconLoader::SmallIconSet() 
[02:33] <\sh> or SmallIconSet
[02:34] <\sh> SmallIconset() only I think...it doesn't belong to the namespace it looks like
[03:17] <sebas> Riddell: http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2005-April/010092.html
[04:27] <Riddell> Mez: up late?
[04:27] <Mez> yeah - for once - lol - I'm actually up late instead of just going to bed
[04:28] <Mez> I'm in the transitional phase of going from nights to days
[04:28] <Mez> lol - but then gotta go back to nights again for tuesday
[04:28] <Mez> lol
[04:28] <Mez> so I dont know why i do it
[04:28] <Riddell> working nightshift or something?
[04:32] <Mez> I work a permanent night shift
[04:32] <Mez> just got three days off :D lol
[04:32] <Mez> so I'm still trying to get back to being up in the day
[04:32] <Mez> lol
[04:32] <Mez> I still havent seen daylight for about 3 montsh
[04:43] <poningru> yikes
[05:47] <Riddell> anyone awake to try http://kubuntu.org/~jr/kde-hal-device-manager/kde-hal-device-manager_0.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb ?
[05:50] <Mez> Riddell, downloading
[05:50] <Mez> 04:50:51 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[05:52] <Riddell> try now
[05:56] <Mez> where should it show ?
[05:57] <Riddell> kmenu->system
[05:57] <Mez> apparently I dont have hal installed
[05:57] <Riddell> install it?
[05:58] <Mez>  hal: Depends: dbus (>= 0.60) but it is not going to be installed
[05:58] <Mez>   dbus: Conflicts: libdbus-1-1 but 0.36.2-0ubuntu7 is to be installed
[05:59] <Mez> no wonder this thing has been cruddy
[06:07] <Riddell> hello LaserJock 
[06:11] <LaserJock> Hi Riddell 
[06:11] <LaserJock> would you happen to be available for a REVU review?
[06:12] <Riddell> LaserJock: it's 5 in the morning!
[06:12] <Riddell> (maybe)
[06:13] <LaserJock> oh, well nevermind then
[06:13] <LaserJock> I can ask somebody else
[06:14] <Riddell> what is it?
[06:14] <LaserJock> plotdrop
[06:14] <LaserJock> it was already advocated 2 times but ajmitch wanted me to change something real quick
[06:15] <LaserJock> I only need one more vote and an upload ;-)
[06:15] <LaserJock> it is a pretty small package
[06:15] <Riddell> LaserJock: did you make the change ajmitch wanted?
[06:16] <LaserJock> maybe if I called it kplotdrop it would have reviewed faster ;-)
[06:16] <LaserJock> Riddell: yes I did
[06:16] <LaserJock> I checked with him and he seemed satisfied
[06:16] <LaserJock> but he didn't have time to do a proper review himself I guess
[06:18] <freeflying> Riddell: hi
[06:18] <Riddell> hi freeflying 
[06:18] <Riddell> freeflying: still working on qt I'm afraid, will do first thing tomorrow
[06:19] <freeflying> Riddell:  :)
[06:19] <LaserJock> sure seems like there is a big movement within the Ubuntu community toward Kubuntu
[06:21] <LaserJock> I was looking at the Distrowatch stats the other day and Kubuntu was #11 and it has more hits per day than Ubuntu did last year
[06:22] <Riddell> how does that work?
[06:23] <LaserJock> I guess that is a comparison of 2004 to 2005 but I think the #11 ranking is pretty impressive
[06:23] <LaserJock> I was looking at http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060102#phr
[06:24] <Riddell> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1344  some issues, you can fix them or I'm happy to upload if you don't want to
[06:27] <Riddell> but I'm going to bed now so make your mind up soon
[06:28] <LaserJock> well, the libglade warning is an upstream thing that I'm not going to fix as it is a known issue
[06:28] <LaserJock> it doesn't really effect anything so I'm not worrying about it
[06:28] <Riddell> fair enough
[06:29] <LaserJock> I would like to get it uploaded if possible, I can change the debhelper with the next release if that is ok with you
[06:32] <Riddell> yep, I'll upload
[06:38] <LaserJock> Riddell: thank you so much, I have been trying to get reviewers for around a month now.
[06:39] <crimsun> I'm still waiting for a way to actually set a password in revu, heh.
[06:40] <crimsun> if this keeps up, I'll just manually add a subkey component and reupload my key to a keyserver, because this is getting annoying.
[06:44] <Riddell> plotdrop_0.5-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
[06:46] <LaserJock> Riddell: got the email. thanks agian
[06:47] <Mez> night Ridell
[06:47] <Mez> crimsun - whats up with your key /
[06:48] <Mez> something to do with REVU?
[06:48] <crimsun> Mez: it's sign-only, so both LP and REVU (which require one to be able to encipher/decipher text) fail
[06:49] <Mez> ah - why do you have a sign-only key ?
[06:49] <crimsun> the needed portion was revoked.
[06:49] <crimsun> I'm just going to add another subcomponent and resync to wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
[12:26] <mornfall> anyone has read the (new) adept spec?
[12:26] <mornfall> comments?
[12:27] <jpatrick> where?
[01:00] <mornfall> wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDapperPackageManager
[01:24] <apokryphos> looks very cool; the individual deb handling a very good idea IMO
[01:25] <apokryphos> they're hoping to eventually replace synaptic with gnome-app-install -- is that going to be (if a somewhat fareoff) ideal of adept too?
[01:38] <apokryphos> (personally it's really good to see such close connection to the advances in apt and apt-related things; sounds promising)
[03:06] <Riddell> mornfall: reading
[03:12] <Riddell> mornfall: "The expanded package info shall have the states colored in the same way the list has."
[03:12] <Riddell> have I seen the list being coloured?  or is it just the states text in the list?
[03:14] <Riddell> "By default the terminal that is used during commit will be hidden and a progressbar will be shown. A button will be present to show the terminal."  too many shows
[03:14] <Tm_T> show the terminal by default please :)
[03:15] <jpatrick> hey Tm_T 
[03:15] <Tm_T> hullo
[03:16] <Tm_T> +l
[03:16] <Riddell> mornfall: "Eventually, the detailed package view" I don't think this is about evenually it's about what will go in adept 2
[03:16] <Tm_T> that means, trying to use, but it does not =)
[03:16] <Tm_T> doesn't work
[03:18] <Riddell> mornfall: "Otherwise, we rely on the apt cronjob to pull updates."  which apt crontjob?
[03:20] <mornfall> Riddell: /etc/cron.daily/apt ?
[03:20] <Riddell> mornfall: "the presented package list will reflect ubuntu menu structure", I'm changing that to Kubuntu since if it uses kde-applications.menu they'll show the the KDE manor
[03:21] <mornfall> morn@lor-k-breezy/k3:~ -> apt-config shell x APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists
[03:21] <mornfall> x='1'
[03:21] <Riddell> mornfall: ok, I get it
[03:21] <mornfall> breezy has a cronjob that runs apt-get update :)
[03:22] <mornfall> and it's enabled by default... so i guess it'd be non-nice to do that on our own again
[03:22] <mornfall> Riddell: as for eventually, that depends on how we decide on the UI
[03:23] <mornfall> Riddell: the things that are not decided are, well, not decided
[03:25] <mornfall> as for stylistic changes, feel free to correct them
[03:26] <mornfall> s/changes/problems/
[03:28] <Riddell> 14:12 < Riddell> mornfall: "The expanded package info shall have the states colored in the same way the list has."
[03:28] <Riddell> 14:12 < Riddell> have I seen the list being coloured?  or is it just the states text in the list?
[03:28] <mornfall> Riddell: package states and actions are coloured
[03:28] <Riddell> the text of them?
[03:29] <mornfall> what else :)
[03:29] <mornfall> yes the text
[03:29] <Riddell> well I was imagining large blocks of background colour for some reason, I'll edit to clarify
[03:31] <jpatrick> hey JRe, freeflying_ 
[03:31] <JRe> hi jpatrick 
[03:31] <freeflying_> jpatrick: hi
[03:31] <Riddell> mornfall: looks good, I think it might need some rought mockups of the new user interfaces
[03:32] <freeflying_> Riddell: today's ppc livecd can not login 
[03:32] <Riddell> mornfall: just of the quality like these is fine https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface
[03:32] <Riddell> freeflying_: hmm, what stage does it get to?
[03:33] <freeflying_> Riddell: kdm
[03:33] <mornfall> Riddell: make snapshots of the alpha :p
[03:35] <Riddell> freeflying_: but then it just can't log in at all?  or does it start to log in then break?
[03:36] <Riddell> mornfall: yep, that's fine too
[03:36] <Riddell> but it doesn't have .deb installer yet etc
[03:36] <freeflying_> Riddell: it can't login 
[03:36] <freeflying_> Riddell: stop at kdm 
[03:36] <Riddell> freeflying_: actually the live CD shouldn't bring up KDM it should just automatically login.  so something strange there, I'll look into it thanks
[03:37] <freeflying_> Riddell: because it can not automatical login , so it give a kdm login face
[03:38] <mornfall> Riddell: if someone does the sketches why not, i just don't have time to fool around, since it's generally just little more work to implement it
[03:40] <freeflying_> Riddell: you still owe me th qt ,  :)
[03:48] <Riddell> freeflying_: working on it
[03:48] <Riddell> mornfall: ok
[04:09] <Tonio_> hi all
[04:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping
[04:09] <Riddell> hi Tonio_ 
[04:10] <Tonio_> fine ?
[04:11] <Riddell> I think I am
[04:11] <Tonio_> I just made several tests with the profiles and I cannot find a better solution than 2 bars
[04:11] <Tonio_> so what do you decide ?
[04:11] <Tonio_> One bar and no kpart fonctions, or 2 bars like http://www.planetemu.net/temp/capture4.png
[04:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: also, what about adding to akregator kubuntu feeds by default, like for konversation with the chan ?
[04:13] <Riddell> Tonio_: 2 bars like that is ugly as anything, it'll just have to stay as one bar and no kpart fonctions
[04:13] <Riddell> akregator should have kubuntu feeds as default, unless that's been lost somewhere
[04:14] <Tonio_> okay, I wasn't sure, because I personaly changed the profiles
[04:14] <Riddell> yep, akregator does, you just need to start with a fresh akregatorrc
[04:14] <Tonio_> okay, so let's remove the "window" menu
[04:15] <Tonio_> and plce some of it's options in the view one, and I'll show you the result
[04:15] <Riddell> yeah
[04:16] <Tonio_> http://www.planetemu.net/temp/capture5.png
[04:16] <Tonio_> and what about that ?
[04:16] <apokryphos> having the extra kpart with icons+text looks interesting; been using a similar thing for a few weeks now
[04:16] <Tonio_> is that ugly to you ?
[04:16] <Tonio_> that better to my view, although it ressembles to the kde default
[04:16] <Tonio_> but with extra things missing
[04:16] <Tonio_> apokryphos: ok ;)
[04:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, it's just the kde default, too many toolbar buttons by far
[04:17] <apokryphos> too much space
[04:17] <Tonio_> hum
[04:18] <Tonio_> you decide, even if I personally disagree ;)
[04:19] <Tonio_> simplifying by removing fonctionnalities is a point of view I don't share...
[04:20] <Tonio_> let's go with this
[04:20] <raphink> agreed
[04:20] <raphink> kde is great because it has a lot of functionality
[04:20] <raphink> s/functionality/functionalities/
[04:21] <raphink> for example, the splitting windows thingy
[04:21] <Tonio_> it will just act like the Windows Explorer actually...
[04:21] <Tonio_> not more.....
[04:21] <raphink> before you told me it could be accessed by right clicking the status bar, I just couldn't use it anymore Riddell 
[04:21] <raphink> I couldn't guess it was there
[04:22] <raphink> yet it's such a useful feature
[04:22] <Riddell> no, that's why the splitting stuff should go back either in the Window menu or a sub-menu of View
[04:22] <Tonio_> that's the goal, reorganising the menus raphink 
[04:22] <Tonio_> that will be changed, I changed many things on that point
[04:22] <raphink> ok
[04:22] <raphink> well I'd be happy as long as I can find all the options in logical places
[04:22] <Tonio_> the problem is just on the kpart integration to menus
[04:23] <raphink> and not have to right click on a weird place to access them
[04:23] <Tonio_> for example the zoom functions while browsing the web, or images functions etc....
[04:23] <raphink> mhm
[04:23] <Tonio_> ht issue is that I can't tell konq to display those buttons only while the khtmlpart isn't in use.....
[04:24] <Tonio_> so we're gettings 4 additionnal buttons while browsing the web : http://www.planetemu.net/temp/capture5.png
[04:24] <Tonio_> and I can't find a good compromisse....
[04:24] <Tonio_> s/compromisse/compromise
[04:25] <Tonio_> I just ask many users and the great majority was prefering capture5.png, but anyway, I don't decide ;)
[04:26] <Tonio_> everyone is fine with Nero on windows, which has about twice as many buttons....
[04:27] <Riddell> ug, I find nero unusable
[04:27] <Tonio_> same for winamp, amarok, is WAY more complicated that this....
[04:27] <Riddell> I also find amarok unusable :)
[04:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: about 80% windows users seems to be fine with it....
[04:28] <Tonio_> same with photoshop elements.... lots of non experts are using it quite easilly....
[04:28] <raphink> right
[04:28] <raphink> windows users are used to having lots of buttons
[04:28] <Tonio_> that's why kde is used by much more newbies that gnome
[04:28] <Tonio_> although gnome is way more simplified
[04:28] <raphink> and windows users are the main target for (k)ubuntu
[04:29] <freeflying_> Riddell:  no program will perform better than amarok 
[04:29] <jpatrick> Tonio_: that's the bad thing
[04:30] <jpatrick> it goes overboard
[04:30] <Tonio_> jpatrick: you meen ?
[04:30] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I don't talk about not simplying it
[04:30] <Tonio_> I agree it has to
[04:30] <raphink> kde is full of options, what's the point of having it look like gnome when you could use all the options it has in a click?
[04:30] <Tonio_> jpatrick: but not by removing one of it's major feature
[04:31] <Tonio_> the kpart integration to menus, that make konq that modular and that powerfull
[04:31] <raphink> yes
[04:31] <Tonio_> actually, just open a pdf file on the web.... 80% will be unreadable if tou can't zoom
[04:31] <Tonio_> windows + IE has no problem
[04:31] <raphink> mhm
[04:32] <Tonio_> that what a windows user will say, and he will be right....
[04:32] <raphink> well zooming with kpdf embbed in konq is terrible right now
[04:32] <raphink> that might be why easykubuntu proposes to install acroread iirc
[04:32] <raphink> and people use acroread embbed in firefox
[04:32] <Tonio_> exactly...
[04:33] <raphink> so they have the buttons to zoom, etc.
[04:33] <raphink> although it would be possible to get exactly the same features with konq+kpdf
[04:33] <Tonio_> same thing if you open a tgz....
[04:33] <raphink> if dealing properly with the buttons
[04:33] <raphink> yes
[04:33] <Tonio_> you have to perform a right click, openwith....
[04:33] <raphink> you should access the ark buttons 
[04:33] <raphink> Tonio_: well you can go to the file menu, too
[04:33] <raphink> and choose open with
[04:34] <Tonio_> that's what I said....
[04:34] <raphink> but I agree the ark buttons should just be available in konq when viweing archies
[04:34] <Tonio_> but that's not convenient....
[04:34] <Tonio_> same for images with the gwenview component....
[04:34] <raphink> yes
[04:34] <raphink> I hate gwenview as it is right now
[04:34] <raphink> because you can do nothing with the images almost
[04:35] <raphink> you just view images one by one
[04:35] <Riddell> hello Huahua 
[04:35] <raphink> we have softs to have it like windows does it : performing a slide show within konq
[04:35] <Huahua> hello Riddell 
[04:35] <freeflying_> Huahua: hi
[04:35] <raphink> hi Huahua 
[04:35] <Huahua> hi raphink 
[04:36] <Tonio_> hi Huahua 
[04:36] <Riddell> morning Sime 
[04:36] <Huahua> hi Tonio
[04:36] <freeflying_> Riddell:  can we translate system setting into chinese now in launchpad
[04:36] <Sime> morning(?)
[04:36] <Sime> Hi
[04:37] <Riddell> freeflying_: not yet, but you will be able to when dapper translation files get loaded into launchpad at string freeze time
[04:38] <Sime> Riddell: http://www.simonzone.com/software/pykdeextensions/en/using-qtdesigner.html
[04:38] <Sime> Riddell: PyKDE extensions should work with Qt designer and KDE widgets
[04:39] <freeflying_> Riddell: then how long will it be 
[04:40] <raphink> Riddell: isn't it because most users want as many buttons as possible ?
[04:40] <Tonio_> raphink: +1
[04:40] <raphink> Riddell: from my experience teaching computers to newbies (my mom for ex), most users are afraid of menus
[04:40] <raphink> they're afraid of anything that has too much text
[04:40] <Tonio_> maybe not, but they prefer functionnalities than extreme simplification
[04:40] <raphink> they much prefer having buttons they can recognize
[04:41] <raphink> than lists of text 
[04:41] <Riddell> freeflying_: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/DapperReleaseSchedule  march 16th
[04:41] <raphink> hmm fine
[04:42] <raphink> Riddell: I totally understand that you created this distro and it's normal that you want to decide about this kind of things
[04:42] <Riddell> Sime: that /is/ interesting.  didn't know you could do it like that.  
[04:42] <raphink> but I'll point out that this gets many users to use firefox and its options withing kubuntu
[04:42] <raphink> which imo is not the way it could be
[04:43] <Riddell> raphink: firefox has less buttons than simplified konqueror
[04:43] <raphink> and for such a distro as kubuntu which is aimed most users
[04:43] <raphink> Riddell: when you view a pdf in firefox with acroread, you can at least zoom with the buttons
[04:43] <raphink> we're mostly talking about kparts buttons here
[04:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: but everyone is adding 10 extensions......
[04:43] <raphink> not the browsing view, which is fine
[04:43] <raphink> Riddell: most firefox users don't use firefox as such
[04:43] <Tonio_> very few people are using it at it's default state
[04:44] <raphink> they add bars and so on
[04:44] <raphink> to add buttons to id
[04:44] <Tonio_> extensions are what have done konq that popular
[04:44] <raphink> it
[04:44] <raphink> firefox without extensions is pointless
[04:44] <raphink> I'd be interested to know the result of a poll in the whole kde community
[04:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: and anyway, konq isn't just a browser....
[04:44] <raphink> and ask windows users who don't know kde, too
[04:45] <Tonio_> the problem is more while managing files that browsing....
[04:45] <raphink> if konq was just a browser, I wouldn't use it probably
[04:45] <raphink> I use it because it can read most files
[04:45] <raphink> because I can view pdf in it, open archives, etc.
[04:45] <Tonio_> 'night freeflying_ 
[04:46] <raphink> but if I miss functionalities doing so, then it lacks something
[04:46] <Riddell> freeflying_: qt compiling now, will be done when you wake up
[04:46] <raphink> "night freeflying_ 
[04:46] <Riddell> raphink: it is pretty easy to change back to the kde default konqueror layout
[04:46] <raphink> Riddell: it's pretty easy for someone who knows how to use a console
[04:46] <raphink> it's not the case of most newbies
[04:47] <raphink> who would like to be able to zoom while viewing pdfs
[04:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum.... I don't like the default, too much functions ;)
[04:47] <Tonio_> compromise is more interesting
[04:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: hah!
[04:47] <raphink> it's easy to do most things in Linux
[04:47] <raphink> if a program is missing
[04:47] <raphink> heh it's easy to compile it
[04:47] <raphink> even easy to package it
[04:47] <raphink> but not for all users ;)
[04:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree it has to be simplied
[04:47] <Tonio_> that's why I'm working on that
[04:48] <Tonio_> but to me, not by removing one of it's top 5 functions
[04:48] <Tonio_> something unique that make it good
[04:48] <Tonio_> simplying menus, removing additionnal features, I agree, but not the kparts.....
[04:48] <Riddell> can we not just alter the kpdf and ark parts to have a new toolbar with their stuff?
[04:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: not to what I know
[04:49] <Tonio_> konq is merging the toolbars depending the context
[04:49] <Tonio_> and it always places this in the main toolbar
[04:49] <raphink> doesn't seem so
[04:49] <Tonio_> no other choice
[04:50] <raphink> yes
[04:50] <Tonio_> also, I didn't find a way to tell him "ignore the khtmlpart, and don't ignore other ones
[04:50] <raphink> you'd have to hack konqueror to get it generate new toolbars for kparts
[04:50] <raphink> and I don't think Tonio_ really wants to do this ;)
[04:50] <Tonio_> raphink: can't do.... I'm not a coder lol
[04:50] <raphink> hehe
[04:50] <raphink> Tonio_: oh really? why this is easy ;)
[04:51] <raphink> users can code it themselves if they want it :)
[04:51] <Tonio_> ;)
[04:51] <Riddell> --- /usr/share/apps/kpdfpart/part.rc~   2005-09-10 09:18:43.000000000 +0100
[04:51] <Riddell> +++ /usr/share/apps/kpdfpart/part.rc    2006-01-08 15:50:50.000000000 +0000
[04:51] <Riddell> -<ToolBar name="mainToolBar"><text>Main Toolbar</text>
[04:51] <Riddell> +<ToolBar name="newmainToolBar"><text>New Main Toolbar</text>
[04:51] <Riddell> voila
[04:51] <Tonio_> hum
[04:51] <Tonio_> interesting
[04:52] <Tonio_> but we'ill have an empty bar then ?
[04:52] <raphink> won't be translated though
[04:52] <Tonio_> when nothing is loaded
[04:52] <Tonio_> it'll look like this :
[04:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, that new toolbar only gets loaded when a PDF is opened
[04:53] <Riddell> seems to be working for me
[04:53] <Tonio_> hum interesting
[04:53] <Tonio_> same thing to be done with gwenview kpart, no ?
[04:54] <Tonio_> and ark one also
[04:54] <Riddell> yes
[04:54] <Tonio_> gonna test ;)
[04:55] <Tonio_> how would you suggest to install the part.rc stull ?
[04:55] <Tonio_> kubuntu-default-settings ?
[04:56] <Riddell> I think it'll have to be a patch to the original
[04:56] <Riddell> dunno, try putting it in /usr/share/kubuntu-def...
[04:56] <Tonio_> okay, that's a good compromise ;)
[04:57] <Riddell> yay :)
[04:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you add that toolbar as "newline" to konq-kubuntu.rc ?
[04:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: I didn't touch konq-kubuntu.rc
[04:58] <Tonio_> hu ? strange.....
[04:59] <Tonio_> it is certainly because you have the "merge" activated on the hidden maintoolbar....
[05:00] <Riddell> what is?
[05:01] <Tonio_> the "merge" option is what is "merging" the toolbars depending the context
[05:01] <Tonio_> I assume the toolbar is just dynamically created because of it's new name....
[05:01] <Tonio_> I'm testing, but I'm fine with that solution ;)
[05:01] <Tonio_> sounds good :)
[05:01] <Riddell> yes, so it doesn't merge and instead just adds a new one
[05:01] <Tonio_> hum it merges
[05:01] <Tonio_> whenever browsing
[05:02] <Tonio_> but the browsing stuff is merged in the "maintoolbar" that is hidden
[05:02] <Tonio_> then the pdf stuff is merges on a new toobar that then displays
[05:02] <Tonio_> that's the trick....
[05:02] <Tonio_> the khtmlpart is merged on an hidden toolbar ;)
[05:02] <Tonio_> very nice hack ;)
[05:03] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jr/tmp/pdf.png  no merges
[05:03] <Tonio_> that's merged no ?
[05:03] <Tonio_> if you look at your konqrc, you should see this :
[05:04] <Riddell> that's a new toolbar on the second line
[05:04] <Tonio_> yes
[05:04] <Riddell> need to remove <Separator/> from kpdf partrc
[05:04] <Tonio_> the main toolbar is merging, while the part.rc is telling the merging is done on a new toolbar
[05:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I can see that
[05:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: you should see this in your konq profile :
[05:05] <Tonio_> <ToolBar newline="true" hidden="true" name="mainToolBar" fullWidth="true" >
[05:05] <Tonio_>   <text>Main Toolbar</text>
[05:05] <Tonio_>   <WeakSeparator/>
[05:05] <Tonio_>   <Merge/>
[05:05] <Tonio_>  </ToolBar>
[05:05] <Tonio_> the <Merge/> directive is what is displaying the context kpart buttons
[05:05] <Riddell> yes
[05:05] <Tonio_> if you remove that, it won't work anymore
[05:05] <Tonio_> anyway, the toolbar is hidden
[05:06] <Tonio_> so the khtmlpart is merged but hidden
[05:06] <Riddell> yep
[05:06] <Tonio_> then the kpdf stuff is merge because of that directive, but on another one ;)
[05:06] <Tonio_> sounds clear and efficient
[05:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: sorry for bugging you with this, but finally, the result is nice ;)
[05:07] <Riddell> don't be sorry, we'll make this thing rock
[05:07] <Tonio_> yep, that's the goal :)
[05:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning kubuntu-default-settings
[05:08] <Tonio_> how does this thing work ?
[05:08] <Tonio_> does it take priority to the /usr/share folder ?
[05:08] <Tonio_> just have to put a file there, or does it needs to be declared somewhere ? ?
[05:08] <Riddell> it edits /etc/kderc so that any resources in /usr/share/kubuntu-def... override those in /usr/share/apps
[05:08] <Tonio_> okay ;)
[05:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: so in theory just putting the new kpart rc file in kubuntu-default-settings is fine
[05:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: good ;)
[05:09] <Riddell> but there's a bug in konqueror which means for restarting konq from a saved session it doesn't do that
[05:09] <Tonio_> let's go, and show you the result in an hour :)
[05:09] <Riddell> that's why the /usr/share/apps/konqueror has the edited file in it
[05:09] <Riddell> so we need to experiment and see if kpdf etc are affected by that
[05:10] <Tonio_> yep
[05:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: last question, why are kubuntu default fonts that big ?
[05:11] <Tonio_> I was asking that several time
[05:12] <Tonio_> is there a particular reason ?
[05:12] <Riddell> it depends on what your kdm sets your dpi to
[05:12] <Riddell> which is what it gets from the monitor
[05:13] <Riddell> it might be a good idea to investigate how to get kdm to just use a static DPI for everyone
[05:13] <Tonio_> by default it is always set to 12 on all machine I installed....
[05:13] <Tonio_> I don't talk about the dpi, but the size in kde profile
[05:14] <Riddell> yes
[05:14] <Riddell> but how large that ends up depends on the dpi
[05:14] <Tonio_> so it cannot be set to 10 by default ?
[05:14] <Riddell> it can but then its too small for some people with different DPIs being set
[05:14] <Tonio_> yep I know the size on the screen depends on the dpi
[05:14] <Tonio_> okay, that's the reason ;)
[05:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: works perfectly
[05:23] <Riddell> Tonio_: what does?
[05:27] <Tonio_> the part.rc in kubuntu-default-settings
[05:27] <Riddell> Tonio_: have you tried logging out and in again with konqueror loaded with a PDF file?
[05:28] <Tonio_> to be honnest, the result is better that what I would have though :)
[05:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep
[05:28] <Riddell> groovy
[05:28] <Tonio_> I removed the separator also
[05:28] <Tonio_> let's take the gwimageview kpart and ark
[05:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok, supply me with rc files for kpdf, ark, gwenview and whatever else you think needs done and I'll update kubuntu-default-settings
[05:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you want a patch for kubuntu-default-settings directly ?
[05:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure, that would do nicely
[05:29] <Riddell> mind and edit the Makefile in there
[05:29] <Tonio_> okay ;)
[05:29] <Tonio_> that'll groove :) hehe
[05:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: do I let the context options in the view menu ?
[05:30] <Tonio_> I personally find that confusing
[05:30] <Riddell> what are they?
[05:30] <Tonio_> same
[05:31] <Riddell> and we haven't decided about Window menu against View->Split yet
[05:31] <Tonio_> you get by default all kpart options in the "view" menu
[05:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning this, I suggest to have that in view
[05:31] <Tonio_> sounds logic....
[05:31] <Riddell> yeah
[05:31] <Tonio_> but concerning the context options.... nothing to do view "view" I think
[05:32] <Tonio_> better to have that in "tools" or something
[05:32] <Riddell> such as which options?
[05:32] <Tonio_> pdf options ;)
[05:32] <Tonio_> zoom etc....
[05:32] <Tonio_> let me show you
[05:33] <Riddell> they are all Viewing related options
[05:33] <kozz> Riddell: fyi, no luck with network manager and knetworkmanager
[05:33] <Tonio_> hum..... not with ark kpart for example ;)
[05:34] <Riddell> kozz: fooey, what does it complain about?
[05:34] <Tonio_> but well, it is not behind your eyes so...
[05:34] <Tonio_> nobody compained about this
[05:34] <kozz> Riddell: where did you get that package anyway, have searched for knetworkmanager but didn't found that archive
[05:34] <Riddell> kozz: it's from suse's factory (development) archives
[05:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: replacement for knetworkconf ?
[05:34] <kozz> Riddell: something about unhandles event or such
[05:34] <kozz> unhandled event even
[05:35] <Riddell> kde frontend to network-manager
[05:35] <kozz> Riddell: but they are not publiv available, right?
[05:35] <Riddell> kozz: it is
[05:35] <Riddell> only as a source RPM
[05:36] <kozz> hmm, at least google can't find it :)
[05:43] <Riddell> search for suse factory
[05:43] <Riddell> the source RPM might be called networkmanager-kde or something
[06:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: works nice with gwenview also.... but I have a problem with kar
[06:00] <Tonio_> ark
[06:00] <Tonio_> it used the kio tar instead
[06:01] <Tonio_> what would you suggest ? keep the kio changing that to use the kpart ?
[06:01] <Tonio_> I think the kpart gives a better feeling
[06:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: not sure which is best, you could argue either way
[06:03] <Tonio_> hum
[06:03] <Riddell> you can get to ark by right clicking
[06:03] <Tonio_> when using the kio, you sometime don't have the feeling to be in an archive
[06:04] <Tonio_> that's by default...
[06:04] <Tonio_> there are three possibilities :
[06:04] <Tonio_> - using the kio
[06:04] <Tonio_> - opening it in konq internally
[06:04] <Tonio_> - opening it externally
[06:04] <Tonio_> actually the kio is used by default
[06:06] <Tonio_> my question is : how to disable a kio, to make tests ?
[06:06] <Riddell> well you can right click to choose 
[06:06] <Tonio_> yes
[06:06] <Riddell> don't know how to change the priority forever
[06:07] <Tonio_> but if I want a double click not to launch tar:/ ?
[06:07] <Tonio_> okay
[06:07] <Tonio_> let's search
[06:09] <Riddell> maybe raise priority of ark ub .desktop file
[06:09] <Riddell> s/ub/in/
[06:09] <Tonio_> I'm asking on a kde channel ;)
[06:10] <Tonio_> kios are great, but this one is confusing... I personnaly prefer to have the archive manager opening....
[06:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: grmpf..... don't find the solution to disable the kio.....
[06:59] <Tonio_> my config works with 7z, rar etc.... but no way for tgz and zip....
[07:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't want to see the pannel by default in filemanagement profile ?
[08:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: which panel?
[08:00] <Tonio_> F9, the sidebar
[08:00] <Tonio_> it is not displayed by default in the filemanagement profile
[08:02] <mornfall> i don't find it "ridiculous" but so be it
[08:02] <mornfall> Riddell: could you please point the user at b.k.o and have a wishlist bug filed so i don't forget?
[08:08] <Riddell> mornfall: I'll do so and point out that missing a minor feature is certianly not rediculous, it's just an interesting idea I hadn't come across before 
[08:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: so would you like the sidebar in filemanagement profile ?
[08:12] <mornfall> Riddell: no need to bother, just have him record it in bugzilla, i almost certainly lose those otherwise
[08:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: dunno, what do we have at the moment?
[08:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: we don't display it
[08:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think it is necessary in the filemanagement profile... making things way easier
[08:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: add it in then :)
[08:14] <Tonio_> okay ;)
[08:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: also I noticed that konqueror uses kate to open file very often...
[08:15] <Tonio_> example http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:EEJhNo0bAfUJ:corpo_acm.netasso.net/files/+%22index+of%22+rar&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8
[08:15] <Tonio_> click on a rar file
[08:15] <Tonio_> it doesn't ask for downloading it....
[08:16] <Tonio_> I don't know why.....
[09:26] <mornfall> Riddell: trimmed down list ... is presented was actually correct :-)
[09:27] <mornfall> other than that, looks good, thanks :)
[09:36] <allee> Tonio_: Koos asked if someone is interested to bring kmplayer to debian.  You uploaded kmplayer to revu half a year ago but it's not in dapper yet.  Any reason why it got stuck?
[09:40] <Tonio_> yep, my package was crappy
[09:41] <Tonio_> and it is very hard to package, so that I don't have the time for this ;)
[09:41] <Tonio_> the problem is that it is now very modular, lots of separated libs etc...
[09:41] <Tonio_> My package should be removed from revu allee 
[09:42] <allee> Tonio_: I can't do this ;)
[09:42] <jpatrick> allee: can I try?
[09:42] <Tonio_> hum
[09:42] <Tonio_> getting mad with this
[09:43] <Tonio_> allee, jpatrick : does anyone of you know on earth is the settings to disable a kioslave ?
[09:43] <allee> jpatrick: go head! (as if anyone about my okay ;)
[09:43] <Tonio_> and secondly, where is the setting telling konqueror to open files with kate ?
[09:43] <jpatrick> I don't :(
[09:43] <Tonio_> tgz files on the web are opened with kate
[09:43] <allee> Tonio_: rename the corresponding protocol desktop file?
[09:44] <Tonio_> allee: hum, why not :)
[09:44] <allee> Tonio_: then either the tar file is buggy or the file associations need a fix
[09:44] <Tonio_> and concerning kate ?
[09:44] <allee> s/tar file/mime type returned bye the server/
[09:44] <Tonio_> allee: well, it works with rar or 7z files
[09:45] <Tonio_> but there are kioslaves for zip and tar
[09:45] <Tonio_> so according to you that is a problem on the server part ?
[09:45] <allee> try:  HEAD  url-to-tar.  Maybe the server returns wrong mime-type
[09:45] <jpatrick> allee: I'm going now.. added kmplayer to todo
[09:46] <Tonio_> hum.......... shouldn't work with extensions instead of the mimetype ?
[09:46] <allee> Tonio_: check HEAD output.  then you will know
[09:46] <jpatrick> school starts again tomorrow!!
[09:46] <Tonio_> firefox or IE are working with extensions
[09:47] <jpatrick> night everyone
[09:47] <allee> Tonio_: well, if you download via http: the server should return right mime type.
[09:48] <allee> jpatrick: night!
[09:49] <Tonio_> allee: I know that, but if 80% webserver are badly configured.....
[09:49] <Tonio_> well
[09:49] <Tonio_> anyway :
[09:49] <Tonio_> [Property::X-KDE-LocalProtocol] 
[09:49] <Tonio_> Type=QString
[09:49] <Tonio_> Value=zip
[09:49] <Tonio_> that's it ;)
[09:51] <allee> Tonio_: URL?
[09:55] <allee> jpatrick: fyi: kde svn kmplayer contains a debian subdir
[10:09] <Tonio_> allee: /usr/share/mimelnk/application/x-zip.desktop 
[10:10] <Tonio_> sorry, I was gone take a lunch
[10:10] <allee> Tonio_: np
[10:11] <allee> Tonio_: next try ;) what's the URL for the tar file that get's opened with kate?
[10:26] <Tonio_> allee: let me show you
[10:26] <Tonio_> just finished eating ;)
[10:27] <Tonio_> allee: I personally don't have the problem with tar.gz files
[10:27] <Tonio_> but with rar, for example...
[10:27] <Tonio_> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:0HP8Oe3ksYMJ:distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/lormalinux/v5/ecd25RAR/+%22index+of%22+rar&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8
[10:27] <Tonio_> you can try to download a rar file there
[10:27] <Tonio_> JRe has the problem with tar.gz files I think
[10:27] <Tonio_> JRe: can you confirm ?
[10:29] <JRe> Tonio_: yes
[10:30] <JRe> it used Kate to open that URL
[10:30] <allee> Tonio_: the server return text/plain  and kate load the *13.rar file here (as expected :( )
[10:32] <allee> Tonio_: ditto for firefox.  rar is displayes it inline.  Lots of garbage
[10:32] <JRe> allee: ok I understand
[10:33] <allee> hi JRe
[10:33] <JRe> hi allee 
[10:33] <JRe> allee: I took a look for the bug you showed me yesterday
[10:34] <allee> JRe: YYEEEAAAHHHH!!!
[10:34] <JRe> allee: but everything in the code of medianotifier seems ok: it do watch the media/gphoto2camera mimetype
[10:34] <JRe> allee: so I think that this bug can come from 1) mediamanager 2) HAL
[10:34] <JRe> allee: ervin thinks it's more a HAL packaging problem
[10:35] <allee> JRe: Do you have a camera that is supported by gphoto2?
[10:35] <JRe> allee: so did you test if you really receive the hal event when pluggin it to you computer ?
[10:35] <JRe> allee: unfortunately not
[10:35] <JRe> allee: all my camera are recognized by media/removable
[10:35] <JRe> allee: but i am overmotivated
[10:35] <JRe> allee: I _want_ this feature
[10:35] <Tonio_> allee: jre has the problem with tar.gz files
[10:35] <Tonio_> while I don't
[10:36] <allee> JRe: I tried lshal some minutes ago.  Long list.  Looks I have to save before/after plugin and diff it but got sidetracked by kmplayer and tar/rar mimetypes
[10:36] <Tonio_> http://planetemu.net/?section=emulateurs&machine=42&os=Linux&orderby=nom&ordertype=ASC&viewtypeemulateurs=detailled#go842
[10:36] <Tonio_> for example there
[10:36] <JRe> Tonio_: it did use kate again
[10:36] <Tonio_> not for me
[10:37] <Tonio_> I get a download dialog box
[10:37] <Tonio_> allee: what about you ?
[10:38] <allee> JRe: okay so you check the why media/removable and not media/camera  and I try to find out more about media/ghoto2camera 
[10:38] <allee> Tonio_: Still loading nothing to 'click' :(
[10:38] <allee> Tonio_: konqueror: still waiting for reply 
[10:40] <Tonio_> I personally can download
[10:40] <Tonio_> the website doesn't work for you ?
[10:40] <allee> Tonio_: stop and reload 'fixed' it.  Now looking for an tar file there ...
[10:40] <Tonio_> k
[10:41] <allee> Tonio_: when I click on FBZX V1.5 I get:
[10:41] <allee> Open 'http://planetemu.n...x_1.5_linux.tar.gz'?
[10:41] <allee> Type: Tar file
[10:42] <allee> and as expected: HEAD 'http://planetemu.net/php/emulateurs/?action=download&id=933'
[10:42] <allee> returns: Content-Type: application/x-tar
[10:43] <Tonio_> allee: that's correct ;)
[10:43] <JRe> allee: yeah right
[10:43] <allee> Tonio_: yes :)
[10:43] <JRe> :)
[10:44] <Tonio_> ;)
[10:44] <Tonio_> okay, so I can disable that kio
[10:44] <Tonio_> good news
[10:45] <JRe> allee: ok gonna try with my ixus
[10:45] <JRe> allee: BTW many thanks for having thinked to that feature!
[10:45] <Tm_T> interesting, ubuntu and ubuntuserver install cd's have same problem with my server machine
[10:45] <Tonio_> JRe: pv ;)
[10:45] <Tm_T> installer "crashes" when it should start partitioning step
[10:47] <allee> JRe: diff of lshal before and after gphoto2 camera pluged in
[10:47] <allee> http://rafb.net/paste/results/UweUx090.html
[10:47] <Tm_T> and flashes "E: Unimplemented function"
[10:49] <JRe> allee: it seems to work
[10:49] <Tm_T> have anyone of you heard about that?
[10:50] <Riddell> Tm_T: dapper or breezy?
[10:50] <allee> JRe: media:/ is still empty (and no media dialog
[10:50] <JRe> allee: kde 3.5 ?
[10:50] <allee> JRe: yes.  Dapper uptodate
[10:51] <JRe> ok
[10:51] <Tm_T> Riddell: breezy
[10:51] <Riddell> Tm_T: that's not a good sign
[10:52] <allee> JRe: I must admit I'm lost again.  To many numbers.  No human readable string like camera or gphoto2 :(
[10:52] <Tm_T> ubuntu shipped install-cd, selfburned ubuntuserver install-cd
[10:52] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's not
[10:52] <Riddell> Tm_T: does it have raid?
[10:52] <JRe> allee: yes all output is a mess
[10:52] <Tm_T> Riddell: bios does find HD just fine, so I don't think that's the problem
[10:52] <Tm_T> Riddell: nope =)
[10:53] <Tm_T> Riddell: just single ATA drive in primary ide as master
[10:53] <JRe> allee: ok I have the same bug
[10:53] <JRe> allee: damn damn damn
[10:54] <JRe> allee: to resolve that the first thing to do is to inspect the output of mediamanager
[10:54] <Tm_T> Riddell: I doublecheck bios settings
[10:54] <JRe> allee: dcop kded mediamanger
[10:54] <JRe> allee: dcop kded mediamanager fullList
[10:54] <allee> JRe: Oh: object 'mediamanger' in application 'kded' not accessible
[10:55] <JRe> allee: that's not normal
[10:55] <JRe> allee: it's working at home
[10:55] <allee> JRe: ah an 'a' was missing not it works so
[10:55] <JRe> allee: and the mediamanager has not my camera in the list
[10:56] <JRe> allee: same for you ?
[10:56] <allee> JRe: yeah. fullList is empty before and after plugin of gphot2 camera 
[10:57] <JRe> allee: ok so the bug come from that
[10:57] <JRe> allee: so It will be hard to fix
[10:57] <JRe> allee: it need a commit in kdebase
[10:57] <JRe> allee: the first thing to do is to report a bug I think
[10:58] <allee> JRe: I'm sure Riddel gladly add this patch to debian/patches ;)
[10:58] <JRe> allee: ok. but we need ervin to do that ;)
[10:58] <JRe> allee: I am not tough enough on HAL
[10:58] <allee> JRe: so bug against mediamanager?  I'll do it.
[10:59] <allee> JRe: questions: to bugs 1) camera is media/removable_unmounted and 2) ghoto2camera not detected.  right?
[10:59] <allee> s/to bugs/two bugs/
[10:59] <JRe> allee: yes
[10:59] <JRe> allee: the first one come from HAL I think
[11:00] <JRe> allee: because it did send a HAL event with the wrong type
[11:00] <JRe> allee: the second one is clearly coming from mediamanager
[11:00] <allee> JRe: okay so I submit 2).  Do you care about 1)?
[11:01] <JRe> allee: I will see for #1 with ervin and see what is the best thing to do
[11:01] <allee> JRe: thx!
[11:02] <JRe> allee: thanks to you!
[11:02] <JRe> allee: what is the deadline for the patch ?
[11:03] <allee> JRe: for digikam 19th Jan so 0.8.1 with the media features can go it.  But a bugfix patch to kdebase should more time.
[11:04] <allee> JRe: digikam is independent of the patch but we would like to test before releasing ;)
[11:04] <JRe> allee: sure
[11:04] <Tm_T> Riddell: nope, no luck with bios tweaking either
[11:04] <allee> JRe: but we can add a patch to digikam also later too if it does not the right thing with the mediamanager patch
[11:05] <JRe> allee: ookee
[11:05] <allee> :)
[11:05] <JRe> allee: what is your camera brand and model ?
[11:05] <JRe> allee: (just to see if it could not be a just for us bug)
[11:05] <allee> JRe: gphoto2: canon powershot a49
[11:06] <allee> JRe: usb storage: sony dsc w12
[11:06] <allee> a40 that is
[11:06] <JRe> allee: gphoto2: i also have a canon
[11:07] <allee> JRe: but I can recruite many more testers on #digikam.  At least 3 running dapper
[11:07] <JRe> allee: should be cool
[11:08] <JRe> allee: they also have the bug with media:/ not showing gphoto2 camera ?
[11:08] <allee> JRe: yea
[11:08] <allee> yes
[11:08] <JRe> allee: ooky
[11:09] <JRe> s/it/he/
[11:15] <allee> JRe: there was no service entry media/pghoto2camera yet?
[11:15] <allee> JRe: next digikam release will have it.  Promised :)
[11:17] <JRe> =)
[11:20] <Tm_T> Riddell: maybe I test dapper installer, where's flight-2 install media?
[11:20] <Tonio_> http://www.planetemu.net/temp/kubuntu-default-settings_5.10-18_all.deb
[11:20] <Tonio_> anyone wants to test this on breezy ?
[11:20] <Tonio_> JRe: if you wanna test ;)
[11:20] <\sh> Tm_T: cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[11:20] <Tm_T> ah!
[11:20] <Tm_T> I'm blind
[11:21] <Tm_T> and too angry about this whole mess
[11:22] <allee> JRe: $%#^ what's the 'application' to file the bug against? Searching in the popdown list is crazy :)
[11:22] <JRe> mediamanager ?
[11:22] <Tm_T> supposed to have working shell server 2h ago
[11:23] <allee> JRe: only two mediacontrol entries.  Check this already :(
[11:23] <allee> JRe: kio/media?
[11:23] <JRe> mmm
[11:23] <JRe> dam
[11:23] <JRe> kioslaves/media
[11:23] <JRe> kdebase/kioslave/media
[11:24] <JRe> the last I am almost sure
[11:26] <allee> JRe: only kio/media exists.
[11:27] <JRe> kio/media is fine
[11:31] <JRe> allee: don't worry next time I see ervin on #solid i'll remember that to him :)
[11:32] <allee> JRe: :)  Thx!
[11:56] <poningru> so can someone confirm something
[11:56] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges
[11:56] <poningru> that says that the next release code names will be alphabetical
[11:57] <poningru> is that true?
[12:02] <Riddell> poningru: yes
[12:02] <poningru> ok cool thanks man