[01:56] <mjg59> So Xgl with glxcompmgr is really quite nice
[01:56] <mjg59> Bit flickery, but fast translucency
[01:57] <\sh> without nvidia or fglrx drivers?
[01:58] <mjg59> On Intel
[01:58] <\sh> sounds good :)
[01:59] <HiddenWolf> weee
[01:59] <HiddenWolf> we want packages. :)
[02:01] <dilinger> indeed
[02:01] <tashiro> Yeah, would be cool to have packages for it
[02:01] <mjg59> Needs patched mesa at the moment
[02:03] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, let's hope someone whips it into shape upstream, so distro's start shipping and gnome/kde can depend on it for eyecandy. :)
[02:15] <\sh> jdub: ping could I request a ML from you? name: kubuntu-de ?
[02:21] <Riddell> \sh: make sure you tell the ubuntu-de loco team know if you set that up
[02:21] <\sh> Riddell: jepp...
[03:25] <lilo> whoops, sorry, I'm good
[03:25] <Lathiat> must be secretly spying on us!
[03:26] <ijuz_> that happens when you are in the wrong network!
[04:37] <infinity> Any Atheros users alive right now?
[04:50] <psusi> this is weird.... the e2fsprogs package fails to build from source... gets some errors converting texi to html docs
[06:36] <crimsun> jdub: ping
[06:44] <jdub> crimsun: pong
[06:45] <crimsun> jdub: hi, have you had a chance to sign my key (0xC88ABDA3)?
[06:50] <jdub> crimsun: hrm!
[06:50] <jdub> crimsun: haven't, mostly because i haven't revoked my gpg key and done all of that silly stuff.
[06:51] <crimsun> jdub: ok, no rush. Thanks.
[06:55] <jdub> ha ha
[06:55] <jdub> "I've been receiving a fair amount of e-mail from people who are sure that I don't know Linux, but their notes are really showing me that they don't know reviewing." - Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
[07:30] <desrt> is dvd playback supported?
[07:31] <infinity> Define "supported"
[07:32] <infinity> We don't ship libdvdcss, so I don't suppose we support playback of encrypted DVDs.
[07:35] <desrt> i mean can a user complain that it's not working?
[07:35] <jdub> yes
[07:35] <jdub> until
[07:35] <desrt> and this is something we should care about?
[07:35] <jdub> we say "but we know it won't work"
[07:35] <jdub> "sorry, legal issues"
[07:35] <jdub> "etc."
[07:35] <jdub> "have a nice day!"
[07:35] <jdub> "*CLICK!*"
[07:35] <desrt> right.  but they've already installed dvdread/libcss/whatever
[07:36] <jdub> ah, then they should eject the CD and stick it in again
[07:36] <jdub> watch it magically work
[07:36] <Gman-> 'linux is so not ready for the desktop....grumble...[hang up] '
[07:36] <infinity> If you can show me that a non-CSS DVD doesn't work, then complain.
[07:36] <desrt> jdub; ?
[07:36] <jdub> Gman-: "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE LINUX DESKTOP!!!!111" -> that's what i do
[07:36] <jdub> desrt: seriously.
[07:36] <infinity> If you want to complain about a CSS DVD not working, there's not much I can do.
[07:36] <Gman-> heh
[07:36] <zakame> jdub: w00t :D
[07:36] <jdub> desrt: this time, i'm not shitting you.
[07:36] <desrt> ok well
[07:36] <desrt> the user is me.
[07:37] <desrt> so if i put the disc in again, it will work?
[07:37] <jdub> highly likely.
[07:37] <infinity> Depends on the problem you're having. :)
[07:37] <infinity> I've not yet found a DVD I couldn't play with xine+libdvdcss.
[07:37] <desrt> Totem was not able to play this disc.
[07:37] <desrt> No reason.
[07:37] <infinity> Though, some required some serious fiddling with preferences.
[07:37] <desrt> well
[07:37] <desrt> i have a dvd here :)
[07:37] <desrt> it's called "pretty woman"
[07:38] <desrt> perhaps you've heard of it :)
[07:38] <desrt> in fact, it was the first one i grabbed.  it may be a fluke or there may be others
[07:38] <infinity> Some giant-mouthed lady, pretending to be a sex worker.
[07:38] <desrt> (i know for a fact that some others *do* play)
[07:38] <infinity> Yeah, sounds familiar.
[07:38] <desrt> lemme grab some more
[07:40] <desrt> pretty woman: does not play
[07:40] <desrt> dave matthews band live ("listener supported"): does play
[07:41] <jdub> i'd accuse you of only telling us about the good ones
[07:41] <jdub> but then, you already mentioned pretty woman
[07:41] <desrt> :)
[07:41] <desrt> amlie: does not play
[07:41] <jdub> that's just cheating
[07:42] <desrt> ?
[07:42] <jdub> that's the ultimate, "yes, i have taste" dvd
[07:42] <desrt> :p
[07:42] <desrt> it's one of the few in this pile that i actually own
[07:42] <jdub> i think you're going to have to destroy pretty woman
[07:42] <desrt> (the dave matthews one being another)
[07:43] <desrt> fifth element: definitely does not play
[07:44] <desrt> run lola run: does not play
[07:44] <desrt> this is weird.....
[07:45] <jdub> when they can't play, are they mounted as filesystems?
[07:45] <desrt> yes.  they always are.
[07:45] <jdub> unmount them, try again
[07:45] <desrt> hold a sec.
[07:46] <desrt> good morning vietnam: weird
[07:47] <desrt> ok
[07:47] <desrt> unmounting has no effect
[07:47] <desrt> some definitions:
[07:47] <desrt> 'does play': i get the menu and can play the dvd just fine
[07:47] <desrt> 'does not play': i get the FBI notices and the studio logo thing but then i get a "make sure you have libdvdcss installed" notice
[07:48] <desrt> 'definitely does not play': i get the "make sure you have libdvdcss installed" notice immediately
[07:48] <desrt> weird (good morning vietnam): i get the fbi notices and the studio logo and then totem seems to think the movie is over
[07:48] <jdub> stick the same CD in twice
[07:48] <desrt> eject, reinsert?
[07:49] <desrt> same story
[07:50] <desrt> fwiw, it's a sony dvd-rw connected with firewire
[07:50] <desrt> the dave matthews DVD is all-region
[07:50] <desrt> the rest are region 1 only
[07:50] <desrt> the drive has had its region code set in windows (to region 1)
[07:53] <desrt> An error occurred
[07:53] <desrt> The source seems encrypted, and can't be read. Are you trying to play an encrypted DVD without libdvdcss?
[07:53] <desrt> same old same old (so it's not firewire causing the problem)
[07:53] <infinity> Have you tried with xine?
[07:54] <infinity> totem and I have never agreed on... well... anything.
[07:54] <desrt> no.  but i have tried with vlc and mplayer.  they both fail in similar ways
[07:55] <desrt> i get some informing console output
[07:55] <desrt> something about being unable to crack CSS keys
[07:55] <infinity> Yeah, xine has more fancy options to change how keysearches are done, which is how I got around my Star Wars DVD problems.
[07:56] <infinity> (Star Wars was dying for me in the "Everything up to the menu works, then the world explodes" way...)
[07:57] <desrt> libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB at 0x0002b12c
[07:57] <desrt> libdvdread: Error cracking CSS key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB (0x0002b12c)!!
[07:57] <desrt> this seems to be the problem.
[07:57] <Treenaks> infinity: as long as you use libdvdcss, setting the DVDCSS_METHOD env. var to disc
[07:57] <Treenaks> infinity: should solve a lot of problems
[07:57] <desrt> DVDCSS_METHOD=disc ?
[07:57] <infinity> I had to set it to "title" for SW..
[07:57] <Treenaks> desrt: export, yes
[07:58] <desrt> libdvdread: Error cracking CSS key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB (0x0002b12c)!!
[07:58] <desrt> :(
[07:58] <desrt> it successfully cracks the key for some of the chapters
[07:58] <desrt> which is why i get the intro junk
[07:58] <desrt> but it always fails on the main title
[07:58] <infinity> desrt: Use METHOD="title"
[07:58] <desrt> k
[07:59] <infinity> (This is assuming that env var is the right one.. I just set this in xine's preferences)
[07:59] <desrt> DVDCSS_METHOD=title totem dvd:///dev/scd0
[08:00] <Treenaks> http://wiki.ws0.org/wakka.php?wakka=libdvdcss explains what the different values do
[08:01] <desrt> hum
[08:01] <desrt> i wonder what happens if i use METHOD=title directly on the .vob file
[08:07] <desrt> i find it suspicious that it fails so rapidly when i use the title method
[08:08] <infinity> Delete your key cache..
[08:08] <desrt> i -just- did :p
[08:09] <desrt> it gets a title key of 00:00:00:00:00
[08:09] <desrt> >:|
[08:09] <infinity> Neat.
[08:09] <desrt> libdvdcss debug: cracking title key
[08:09] <desrt> libdvdcss error: read error
[08:09] <desrt> libdvdcss debug: 0 of 0 attempts successful, 0 of 0 blocks scrambled
[08:09] <desrt> libdvdcss debug: title key is 00:00:00:00:00
[08:09] <desrt> libdvdcss error: fatal error in vts css key
[08:10] <desrt> 0 attempts?  heh.
[08:10] <desrt> this feels kinda like a libdvdcss bug
[08:10] <fabbione> desrt: is that on a new machine?
[08:11] <desrt> well
[08:11] <desrt> new dvd drive
[08:11] <fabbione> ok
[08:11] <desrt> got it for christmas :)
[08:11] <fabbione> apt-get install regioncode
[08:11] <desrt> this is not the problem.
[08:11] <fabbione> and set the region on the dvd driver.. kthxbye
[08:11] <desrt> (plus... regioncode does not recognise my drive)
[08:11] <fabbione> wanna bet?
[08:11] <desrt> i've set the regioncode using windows.
[08:11] <fabbione> i had the same problem on the powerbook dvd
[08:11] <fabbione> same error
[08:11] <fabbione> region set did it
[08:12] <desrt> regionset is already the newest version.
[08:12] <desrt> ERROR: Could not retrieve region code settings of the drive!
[08:12] <desrt> This could mean your drive is region free and doesn't need any setting.
[08:12] <desrt> it is -not- a region-free drive
[08:13] <Treenaks> \o/ entertainment industry.. *sigh*
[08:13] <desrt> in any case, libdvdcss claims to be able to work without setting the region
[08:13] <fabbione> desrt: nah.. it can't
[08:13] <desrt> well.  i have set it
[08:13] <fabbione> you need to set it, but it might be the driver that needs to be set on each boot
[08:13] <fabbione> who knos
[08:13] <fabbione> knows
[08:23] <infinity> desrt: Can't retrieve code just means it's never been set properly.  You can still set one.
[08:32] <desrt> infinity; i tried that.  it said that it failed to set it
[08:33] <desrt> infinity; (and when i checked it windows it was true... it hadn't been set)
[08:33] <infinity> Curious.
[08:33] <desrt> i've set it in windows now and the regionset program still thinks that it's unset
[08:34] <desrt> it really is evil.
[08:34] <infinity> Maybe you've found a drive that our tools/drivers genuinely hate.
[08:34] <desrt> Enter the new region number for your drive [1..8] :1
[08:34] <desrt> New mask: 0xFFFFFFFE, correct? [y/n] :y
[08:34] <desrt> ERROR: Region code could not be set!
[08:35] <desrt> it's making a DVD_AUTH ioctl which returns -ENOSYS
[08:35] <desrt> i've checked the kernel
[08:35] <desrt> the only code path that could do that is this:
[08:35] <desrt>                 if (!CDROM_CAN(CDC_DVD))
[08:35] <desrt>                         return -ENOSYS;
[08:36] <desrt> it's as if it doesn't even think that it's a DVD drive....
[08:36] <desrt> (but obviously it can mount it and play the first bits of movies)
[08:37] <desrt> huh!
[08:37] <desrt> [4750685.622000]    Vendor: SONY      Model: DVD RW DRU-810A   Rev: 2.0d
[08:37] <desrt> [4750685.622000]    Type:   CD-ROM                             ANSI SCSI revision: 00
[08:37] <desrt> so that _is_ the problem
[08:37] <desrt> ok.  this is a kernel bug.
[08:37] <infinity> That certainly seems a bit problematic..
[08:38] <desrt> hah.  benc runs away.
[08:38] <desrt> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77219
[08:38] <desrt> this thread the user says they had one heck of a time getting the drive working in breezy but in hoary it was OK
[08:39] <desrt> i wonder if this detecting-as-cd business is a regression
[08:39] <jdub> yes
[08:39] <desrt> oh?
[08:45] <fabbione> desrt: it might be easier if you could test .15
[08:45] <fabbione> and see if it fixes it
[08:45] <desrt> i'm running dapper here
[08:45] <fabbione> hm ok
[08:45] <fabbione> git-bisect is your friend :)
[08:45] <desrt> binary search for regression?
[08:46] <fabbione> it will take you a few kernel rebuilds
[08:46] <fabbione> desrt: sort of
[08:46] <desrt> this forum post is questionable at best.... i'm not sure he's talking about the same thing as i am
[08:46] <desrt> i'm going to take a more direct approach and try and just debug the problem
[08:46] <desrt> (add printf's to the kernel, etc)
[08:47] <desrt> figure out exactly why the kernel thinks that it's a cdrom
[08:47] <desrt> heh :)
[08:47] <desrt> ok ok.
[08:47] <fabbione> bisect even
[08:51] <desrt> what kernel was hoary?
[08:51] <desrt> 10, right?
[08:55] <desrt> ughhh. non gcc-4-safe kernels
[08:56] <floam> desrt: yeah 2.6.10 according to distrowatch
[08:56] <floam> warty was 2.6.8.1
[09:28] <desrt> heh
[10:08] <desrt> ok.  it's a firewire bug.
[10:08] <desrt> the reason the drive wasn't working when i tried its USB interface was a stale dvdcss cache
[10:08] <Mithrandir> desrt: ooh, you have a USB/firewire dvd/cdrom?
[10:08] <desrt> yes
[10:09] <Mithrandir> desrt: do you want to be my bitch^Wfriend for life? :-)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> or at least, test the live cd on it
[10:09] <desrt> does this involve testing?
[10:09] <desrt> heh.
[10:09] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: I have a firewire CD-ROM enclosure I can send you..
[10:09] <desrt> it's not firewire bootable
[10:09] <Mithrandir> desrt: oh. :-(
[10:09] <desrt> i have firewire ala audigy 2
[10:09] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: (works on any IDE hard disk <120GB as well)
[10:09] <desrt> not onboard
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I just need to have it tested, and I think it's a one-off job, but thanks.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: so if you could do that, I'd be very grateful.
[10:10] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: I have no drive to put in it :)
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: ah, ok.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> then it's a tad harder.
[10:10] <Treenaks> :)
[10:10] <Mithrandir> that is, there's no use in doing it now, since I know it's broken, but I think I have a fix.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> but having fixes tested is a virtue.  Or so I've heard.
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: get me a mac mini. :-P
[10:11] <Mithrandir> what's wrong in the boot there ATM?
[10:11] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: not much really, it drops out of usplash very early and I get a GDM screen ('please log in' :)
[10:12] <Mithrandir> I have a fix for that in bzr already.
[10:12] <Mithrandir> it's my fault. :-)
[10:12] <Mithrandir> (and it's a trivial fix)
[10:12] <Treenaks> then all I need is a fixed ati driver
[10:13] <Mithrandir> I can't give you that. :-)
[10:13] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: nah, I need to poke daniels for that anyway -- it's still broken on my HP laptop
[10:14] <Mithrandir> but I can get a fixed casper into the archive.  Hopefully, Den will be able to verify that my fix actually fixes his problem and we'll have usb/firewire live cds working too.
[10:25] <TheMuso> c
[10:25] <TheMuso> crap...
[10:26] <Treenaks> ?
[10:31] <desrt> Mithrandir; an interesting thing to consider which i'm pretty sure is completely unsupported right now is the idea of having the ability to install ubuntu onto a harddrive on one sort of media and use it via another
[10:32] <desrt> Mithrandir; for example,  install to an IDE harddrive and then remove that harddrive and install it in a firewire enclosure and boot off of that as if nothing changed
[10:32] <desrt> Mithrandir; won't work right now since the root device has changed from /dev/hda to /dev/sd[something] 
[10:33] <desrt> even firewire in the presence of various different built-in scsi devices will fail since you'll move from /dev/sda to sdb (or whatever)
[10:38] <fabbione> whoohhooo
[10:38] <fabbione> there is a big memory leak somewhere
[10:41] <daq4th> buy more ram ;-)
[10:43] <fabbione> daq4th: ehehe
[10:44] <fabbione> must be some gnome-lib from death
[10:45] <fabbione> all gnome apps sucking over 300Mb
[10:45] <fabbione> and stuff like that
[10:46] <crimsun> seb's gonna love that one
[10:46] <fabbione> and daniel
[10:46] <fabbione> 13715 fabbione  15   0  100m 8780 6372 S  0.3  0.9   0:02.48 xmms               
[10:46] <fabbione> just to start :/
[10:48] <fabbione> nautilus is at 270M
[10:48] <fabbione> fresh boot
[10:48] <fabbione> lovely
[10:49] <Treenaks> fabbione: virt or real?
[10:50] <fabbione> Treenaks: it's VIRT, but it doesn't take long to become real
[10:51] <fabbione> after a few hours i have about 1.5G of swap in use
[10:51] <fabbione> (with 1GB of real ram)
[11:02] <fabbione> this smells more like a glibc issue
[11:02] <fabbione> too many random processes sucking too much ram
[11:06] <fabbione> system becomes almost unuseable after 45 minutes
[11:06] <crimsun> sparc?
[11:07] <crimsun> I know I've been getting lots of libc errors about invalid free()s on app exits
[11:07] <crimsun> (that's on i686, though)
[12:06] <csj> hello, I got ubuntu live-base iso from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/livecd-base/, and I customize it, I installed xorg, gnome,gdm,etc. and then burn it to test, but failed cause I dont have /dev/input/mice, which package should I install to auto produce the device file?
[12:10] <fabbione> crimsun: i am on amd64 k8
[12:10] <fabbione> crimsun: sparc seems fine
[12:11] <fabbione> crimsun: but that's usually an app bug.
[12:11] <crimsun> fabbione: wouldn't doubt it; it's irssi that's throwing it
[12:12] <fabbione> crimsun: invalid free() means that irssi is attempting to free memory that's not allocated to it, or no more allocated to it (previously free'ed)
[12:12] <crimsun> right
[12:15] <fabbione> hmm foood
[01:06] <netstar> Can anyone explain where ubuntu sets default file type, application associations (in nautilus), and then locks them so that a selected "elite" are unmovable?  I'm tried editing .desktop MimeInfo and default.list but , however, am still having no luck.
[01:07] <Burgundavia> netstar, it shouldn't do that
[01:07] <Burgundavia> netstar, check the permissions on .local. And this is really a support question, and should thus be on #ubuntu
[01:08] <netstar> Burgundavia, I understand that, sorry, but was finding that the level of explanations were a little too high level.
[01:08] <netstar> I'll try elsewhere.
[01:08] <netstar> btw other users are having the same issues.
[03:16] <tuhl> the beagle search front edn crashes in upstream
[03:16] <tuhl> beagle-query works
[03:17] <tseng> do you have and evolution address book
[03:17] <tuhl> tseng: adressbook, jabber chat, rss feed, files, mails....
[03:17] <tseng> erm
[03:17] <tseng> it was a yes or no question please
[03:18] <tuhl> yes
[03:18] <tuhl> I have
[03:18] <tseng> the crash is in evo-sharp, not beagle afaict
[03:19] <tuhl> tseng: ok
[03:20] <tuhl> so this appens when beagle search FE tries to access the evo data server
[03:21] <tseng> eh, it only happens if you have addresses
[03:21] <tseng> empty contacts list = no crash
[03:23] <tuhl> tseng: is this bug already addressed by someone?
[03:23] <tseng> addressed, no
[03:23] <tseng> do i know about it? yes
[03:23] <tuhl> bug filed?
[03:23] <tseng> yes
[03:26] <tuhl> why are there no start/stop scipts for beagled?
[03:26] <tseng> because it runs as a user?
[03:26] <tseng> and there is a stop script
[03:27] <tuhl> there should be a desktop integration in the control-center
[03:27] <tseng> patches accepted
[03:29] <mjg59> tseng: There's the search and indexing thing which seems to appear under accessories - it looks like it should be other preferences
[03:29] <mjg59> Uh, s/other/under/
[03:29] <tseng> mjg59: it should actually be removed
[03:29] <tseng> its suse specific
[03:29] <mjg59> tseng: Ah
[03:29] <tseng> it writes ~/.beagle-startup or some such
[03:30] <mjg59> tseng: Well, that aspect of it. It also writes useful looking config files that beagle then fails to parse (throws an exception in the parsing code)
[03:30] <tuhl> aha I see
[03:30] <tseng> one of these days i am going to say to hell with debian and bring back my old package
[03:30] <tuhl> tseng: ?
[03:31] <tseng> tuhl: example, beagle wants to be removed in debian because it needlessly depends on dbus-1-utils which i pointed out was unnessicary months ago
[03:31] <tseng> patch included
[03:32] <tuhl> tseng: did the debian maintainer not accept you advice?
[03:32] <tseng> sometimes he does, after some weeks
[03:33] <tseng> sometimes no reply
[03:33] <tseng> no fix
[03:33] <tuhl> tseng: what is the current policy for ubuntu packaging in this cases?
[03:33] <tseng> i can obviously keep fixing it myself and merging forever
[03:34] <tseng> i *prefer* to do things properly in debian
[03:38] <Simira> raphink : I'm up for a round or two of Wesnoth sometime today
[03:40] <Kamion> slomo_: FWIW the mcs crash always seems to be in System.String:Equals(); I have a backtrace if you need one
[03:42] <Kamion> under System.Collections.Specialized.ListDictionary:FindEntry()
[03:42] <Kamion> so I guess the contents of a ListDictionary are getting trashed somewhere?
[03:47] <Kamion> slomo_: oh ... have any of your attempts to reproduce this been on a multiprocessor box? it smells of a thread-safety bug
[03:53] <tseng> mjg59: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324904
[03:53] <tseng> mjg59: i think this is part of your problem
[03:53] <tseng> mjg59: (fixed in cvs)
[03:54] <mjg59> tseng: Ah, yes
[03:57] <raphink> Simira: whenever you want, let me know ;)
[03:57] <raphink> Simira: esp. now that wesnoth 1.1 is fixed :)
[04:41] <tseng> mjg59: i backported that, uploading now
[04:42] <mjg59> tseng: Thanks!
[04:43] <tseng> mjg59: np
[04:43] <tseng> argh no im not
[04:43] <tseng> -S -sa
[04:43] <tseng> next time im in the same room with elmo he is going to kill me for unsigned orig.gz's
[04:45] <tseng> jdub: did you add my feed?
[04:45] <jdub> yeah, but we haven't switched to new planet yet
[04:45] <tseng> oh, i thought thats what all the css fussing was about
[04:46] <tseng> oh wow
[04:46] <tseng> Debug: Helper Size: VmRSS=108.3 MB, size=6.62, 140.4%
[04:46] <jdub> no, that was wuc switching stuff out from under everyone
[04:46] <tseng> Debug: Process too big, shutting down!
[04:51] <tseng> jdub: i thought you were a blosxom guy, anyway
[04:51] <stratus> jdub, you said that you plan to came for FISL will you give a talk there?
[04:53] <Simira> raphink : I'll just check if I have Wesnoth installed
[04:54] <raphink> Simira: are you on dapper?
[04:54] <Simira> raphink : well, yes,  but I use my Windows XP desktop for Wesnoth ;)
[04:54] <raphink> oh ok
[04:54] <raphink> :p
[04:54] <raphink> beah
[04:58] <jdub> tseng: i'm looking at / working on converting
[04:59] <jdub> stratus: i've entered an abstract, so i hope so!
[05:01] <nix4me> hate to bother, but is there a way to ensure that the bug I filed has been recognized and will get worked on?
[05:01] <stratus> jdub, good. I'll probably talk about that CDD and with luck we will have a telecentre running there.
[05:02] <dholbach> hello
[05:02] <jdub> stratus: rock!
[05:03] <Pygi> hi dholbach
[05:03] <stratus> jdub, yes :)
[05:04] <dholbach> hellas Pygi
[05:07] <nix4me> guess not
[05:38] <Mithrandir> desrt: fabbione has a spec on finding the root fs
[05:41] <psusi> Mithrandir, btw... I don't know if you even looked at the malone bug I filed on e2fsprogs yet... but ignore the first upload... I don't know what I was thinking... I sent a new debdiff that is cleaner and actually built
[05:41] <psusi> Mithrandir, though for some reason some docs failed to build with texi2html, so I had to set the makefile to ignore that failure for the package to build... I know nothing about texi
[05:42] <Mithrandir> psusi: yes, I've looked at it and forwarded the request to tytso, who is upstream and the Debian maintainer.
[05:42] <Mithrandir> as I haven't been anywhere near a networked computer since I sent that mail until about five minutes ago, I don't know if I have received a response yet.
[05:42] <psusi> heh
[05:43] <psusi> I was up all night playing with my newly built amd64 defrag package ;)
[05:43] <Mithrandir> I am leaning towards not having __u64 and __s64 in ext2_types.h at all.
[05:43] <psusi> it's a surprisingly well written program
[05:43] <Mithrandir> but I'll want to hear what tytso says, it's his program, after all.
[05:43] <psusi> Mithrandir, that's what I thought... why duplicate what's in asm/types.h?
[05:44] <psusi> but at least I got it to define them the same way so the compiler doesn't bitch
[05:44] <psusi> I assume you just refered tytso to the bug and didn't actually send him the debdiff?  
[05:45] <Mithrandir> psusi: because __s64 / __u64 might not be part of POSIX or C89/C99.  Yes, I referred him to the bug
[05:45] <psusi> Mithrandir, might not?  they are not ;)
[05:45] <psusi> as far as I know
[05:46] <psusi> but asm/types.h I think is a more widely used header than ext2_types.h, so the latter should defer
[05:46] <Mithrandir> psusi: why __s64/__u64 is needed at all I wonder about, though.  Why can't he use uint64_t and int64_t?
[05:47] <psusi> what header defines those?
[05:48] <psusi> and there is code other than e2fsprogs that uses the __ ones... like defrag ;)
[05:48] <Mithrandir> stdint.h :-)
[05:48] <Mithrandir> they shouldn't.
[05:48] <psusi> err... wait. maybe it didn't actually _use_ them
[05:48] <Mithrandir> stdint.h is C99, I think
[05:48] <psusi> it just included both headers for other reasons
[05:48] <psusi> hrm... I really should look at what they added in C99
[05:48] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm off to make some dinner.  I'll see what, if anything is in my mail a bit later.
[05:49] <psusi> manja
[05:59] <psusi> is there somewhere I can get the previous i386 breezy 2.6.12 kernel package?  the one that came out in the tail end of december seems to randomly hard lock beyond even the reach of magic-sysreq
[05:59] <psusi> prior to that update, this server had been up for 40 days without a hickup... now it has died 3 times in the last 4 days
[05:59] <psusi> and the morgue is hopelessly out of date
[06:11] <Kamion> psusi: asm/* is technically not safe to use from userspace; the correct answer according to the kernel developers is to copy things you need from there into your code
[06:11] <Kamion> psusi: I imagine that's why it's copied
[06:12] <Kamion> likewise linux/*
[06:12] <psusi> why isn't it safe from user space? it is in /usr/include?  thinks that are kernel specific go in the kernel tree don't they?
[06:12] <Kamion> no
[06:12] <Kamion> some parts of /usr/include document kernel APIs
[06:13] <Kamion> those are not guaranteed not to change out from under you with no notice
[06:13] <psusi> copying is silly though... if the api changes, and you are using a now wrong copy of the declaration, the program will screw the pooch at runtime rather than at compile time when the compiler sees the declaration has changed
[06:14] <Kamion> no, you don't understand; the kernel is very careful not to break actual userspace programs
[06:14] <Kamion> i.e. the ABI
[06:14] <psusi> if the declaration changes, the ABI changes
[06:14] <Kamion> but the API may change and break you if you're including stuff that's internal to the kernel
[06:14] <Kamion> that implication does not hold
[06:14] <psusi> if it breaks though, it is broken in both source and binary
[06:14] <Kamion> no
[06:14] <Kamion> it's perfectly possible to change an API without breaking the ABI
[06:15] <Kamion> for example, you can change a syscall's interface by changing the syscall number but leaving the old one intact for programs built to know about the old syscall
[06:15] <psusi> hrm... well, I guess in some pedantic cases... like how the 64 bit types are defined... they are all binary compatible 64 bit integers... but declared a bit differently
[06:15] <Kamion> tytso is a kernel developer, you think he might know? :P
[06:16] <psusi> but in that case, having the header change won't break anything _unless_ you have your own copy and one changes
[06:16] <psusi> and you're using both
[06:16] <psusi> like in the case I ran into
[06:16] <psusi> yea... and if you recompile those programs, you want them to use the new number
[06:16] <psusi> that isn't going to happen if they have their own copy of the headers
[06:17] <Kamion> no, because that sort of thing is exposed through glibc stubs
[06:17] <Kamion> and no, you don't want them to use the new number, because the new syscall would have different arguments and you couldn't do that just by recompiling the program
[06:17] <Kamion> things like CD-ROM ioctls are possibly a better example
[06:17] <psusi> then glibs knows the number... it should get that number from the one place... so when it changes, and you rebuild glibc, it gets the new number, without you having to change it in 3 other headers
[06:18] <Kamion> since IIRC glibc doesn't wrap those
[06:18] <psusi> ohhh
[06:18] <psusi> hrm.... yea... I suppose it does allow you to do that
[06:19] <psusi> change the api, but keep the same name... and keep two different binary ABIs, the old and the new
[06:19] <Kamion> it's done in practice all the time
[06:19] <psusi> heh... I'd just make a new bloody name so as to avoid confusion ;)
[06:20] <Kamion> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1997/02/msg00686.html
[06:20] <Kamion> read this first
[06:21] <segfault> does anyone know where can i get pastebin sources?
[06:21] <Kamion> though there have been later developments than that of course, that being nearly a decade ago
[06:23] <psusi> heh... this defrag program was written a decade ago... in fact, I remember using it back in '95 on what?  slackware 2 or something ;)
[06:23] <psusi> and Linus is mentioned in the credits... heh
[06:23] <psusi> he used the kernel headers
[06:25] <Kamion> sure, that was a decade ago
[06:25] <Kamion> and possibly before glibc
[06:25] <Kamion> things have changed
[06:51] <Mithrandir> psusi: no response from tytso (yet at least)
[06:51] <psusi> that's cool
[07:32] <mdke> elmo, Znarl, just in case you haven't noticed, it looks like the certificates for the websites have expired
[07:32] <mdke> The security information for Canonical Ltd expired on Fri 06 Jan 2006.
[07:33] <mdke> jdub, the link to the wiki on the main bar of planet is a dud link, it goes to http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/
[07:33] <HiddenWolf> and planet itself is messed up. :)
[07:34] <mdke> HiddenWolf, not always :)
[07:34] <HiddenWolf> haven't seen it correctly displayed in days
[07:34] <mdke> here it sometimes looks fine, sometimes missing css
[07:41] <Mez> do we not have jack support in ubuntu at all?
[07:41] <mjg59> What do you mean by "jack support"?
[07:42] <mjg59> It lives in Universe, but it's there
[07:42] <Mez> mjg59, I mean gstreamer-0.8-jack :D
[07:43] <mjg59> It would seem not
[07:43] <jpatrick> I thought it was gstreamer0.8-jack
[07:44] <mjg59> http://64studio.com/pipermail/64studio-devel/2005-September/000821.html
[07:44] <Mez> darn
[07:45] <Mez> I wanted to use amarok through it instead of having to switch
[07:46] <mjg59> So it's not supported because the code is broken
[07:46] <Mez> :(
[07:46] <Treenaks> you're of course free to write working code 8)
[07:46] <mjg59> Nnngh.
[07:46] <Mez> lol - if I knew how
[07:47] <mjg59> The people upstairs have bought an Airport Express and are streaming music over it
[07:47] <mjg59> Except they've put it on the same channel as my AP
[07:47] <Mez> lmao
[07:47] <Treenaks> mjg59: lots of people do that..
[07:47] <Mez> so - are you going to poke them
[07:47] <Mez> or change your channel?
[07:47] <mjg59> (Which takes me up to 5 networks I can see from my bedroom)
[07:47] <Treenaks> mjg59: every time I change the channel on my AP, my neighbor changes his the next day
[07:47] <mjg59> No, I'm going to change my AP's channel
[07:47] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: to the same one as yours?
[07:47] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: yes
[07:48] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: annoying git
[07:48] <mjg59> Treenaks: He seems... confused
[07:48] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: have your jump about once every six hours, then?
[07:48] <mjg59> I need to replace the card in mine with one with decent antennae, anyway
[07:48] <mjg59> Then I may be able to see it from the pub across the road
[07:49] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: nah, I know him.. I just need to poke him
[07:49] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: but I keep forgetting :)
[07:49] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[07:50] <Treenaks> dholbach: you too :)
[08:12] <sistpoty> infinity | lamont: could you please clear boson-base from dep-wait? issue is fixed with upload from today. thx.
[08:15] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync rfb from unstable, ubuntu override ok.
[09:13] <Mez> does the linux-source image come with a pre-done config file - or do i have to compile it all myself if I want realtime kernel stuff
[09:15] <desrt> Mez; you can get the config file of your running system out of /boot
[09:15] <Mez> ah :D yes
[09:19] <psusi> Ummm... I'm trying to report a bug against the kernel and neither malone nor bugzilla seem to know about linux-image* packages... what gives?
[09:19] <jpatrick> psusi: linux-source?
[09:19] <psusi> jpatrick, not listed in bugzilla...
[09:20] <HiddenWolf> psusi, just plain linux
[09:20] <psusi> hrm.... well... ok.... I guess I'll just specify which one has the problem in the description
[09:21] <desrt> so.. uh... the last morgue update was in april of last year
[09:22] <desrt> anyone know where the recently deceased are?
[09:26] <desrt> ahah!  still installed on muh laptop
[09:29] <psusi> I really wish someone would fix the morge... the .25 i386 kernel that was released back in december is hard locking daily on my server at work since i upgraded to it this week... I don't know what I would have done if I hand't found the .24 one in an old backup
[09:29] <kent> psusi, filed a bugreport about it?
[09:29] <psusi> filing now
[09:30] <kent> psusi, great.   some one might have fixed it before if you filed it back in december :)
[09:31] <psusi> I didn't start using the new kenrel until 5 days ago ;)
[09:31] <psusi> didn't want to reboot the server... it had been up for 40 days
[09:31] <psusi> since updating, it has hard locked beyond even the reach of magic sysreq 3 times
[09:32] <Erlang> anyone here managed to build a 32 bits pbuilder chroot on a 64 bit system?
[09:32] <Nafallo> security is better than uptime in my world :-)
[09:32] <Nafallo> or wait. it's a dapperserver or something. never mind.
[09:33] <psusi> Nafallo, it's behind the firewall so I don't really care ;)
[09:36] <chninkel> ls
[09:37] <Erlang> guess not :/
[09:37] <desrt> BenC; remember how you reverted your patches to the firewire code between -8 and -9?
[09:39] <desrt> BenC; you're probably going to need to unrevert those :)
[09:41] <slomo_> Kamion: thanks for your efforts :) afaik the ppc64 where it couldn't be reproduced was a dual g5 too
[09:45] <jbailey> slomo_: Is this still the mono problem?
[09:45] <slomo_> jbailey: yes
[09:46] <desrt> is it possible to get a detailed revision history of a package?
[09:46] <desrt> ie: can i somehow get my hands on a patch that used to be in a package but is no longer?
[09:48] <ajmitch> morning
[09:48] <Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
[09:49] <slomo_> hi ajmitch 
[09:49] <ajmitch> hey slomo_ 
[09:50] <infinity> desrt: Debian has snapshot.debian.net.  Ubuntu is lacking anything quite that useful currently.
[09:51] <desrt> shucks.
[09:51] <desrt> oh well.  ben will probably just toss the whole patch back in again for -12
[09:51] <infinity> slomo_: Did we not come to some sort of conclusion pre-Christmas that it was glib at fault?
[09:51] <desrt> :)
[09:52] <infinity> slomo_: Not that we'd done much to test this theory, mind you...
[09:52] <slomo_> infinity: no... mvo tried it in a breezy chroot on that machine later and it failed too... so imho it could be either a kernel bug or a mono bug
[09:53] <infinity> Oh, hrm.
[09:53] <infinity> I must have missed that development.
[09:54] <slomo_> infinity: and it worked on another ppc64 with flight2... which had glib 2.9 already iirc
[09:55] <ajmitch> slomo_: you saw that Kamion suspected possibly thread-saferty issues?
[09:55] <infinity> flight-2 being kernel 2.6.15, which we don't have on either the buildds or on davis...
[09:56] <slomo_> ajmitch: yes, i read it
[09:57] <slomo_> oh, but the machine kangaroo tried it on wasn't a dual g5... hm, could be really a threading problem...
[09:58] <ajmitch> slomo_: only on ppc, right?
[09:58] <slomo_> no, it was a ppc64... but only one cpu instead of the two that davis and the buildd have
[09:59] <Nafallo> slomo_: now that we're talking about mono and glibc together. you saw the output of that banshee debug? :-)
[09:59] <slomo_> Nafallo: not glibc... glib :P but please file a bug somewhere so i can look at it when i find some free time :(
[09:59] <Nafallo> slomo_: and ehm, please tell your brother to reproduce it ;-)
[10:00] <Nafallo> I could do that...
[10:00] <slomo_> Nafallo: what has to be done to get this bug? nothing?
[10:00] <Nafallo> slomo_: banshee<enter> ;-)
[10:01] <slomo_> Nafallo: ok, i'll tell him :)
[10:04] <Nafallo> slomo_: malone 6557
[10:04] <ajmitch> morning mpt 
[10:04] <maswan> Nafallo: hey, what was that site you thought I should go register my duck with? I forgot.
[10:04] <slomo_> Nafallo: assign it to me, thanks ;)
[10:05] <infinity> maswan: Register... Your... Duck?
[10:05] <Nafallo> maswan: probably art.ubuntu.com? Don't remember either though :-P.
[10:06] <maswan> infinity: I took a decent pic of a duckling, it might be useful/neat for someone: http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/bilder/20050706-Ute/index.html?view=IMG_5222.JPG
[10:06] <Nafallo> slomo_: assigned it to mono ;-)
[10:06] <infinity> Aww.. Cute.
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> maswan, heh, I have a friend who'll love this. :)
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> I might persuade him to turn it into a drawing. :)
[10:06] <ajmitch> Nafallo: thanks :)
[10:07] <Nafallo> HiddenWolf: a friend that will love dapper drake is a good friend? ;-)
[10:07] <maswan> HiddenWolf: :)
[10:07] <Nafallo> ajmitch: what not? the bug? :-)
[10:07] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, an artist with a sweet spot for little birds. :)
[10:07] <Nafallo> infinity: yay! :-D
[10:07] <ajmitch> Nafallo: could you give at least minimal info on how to reproduce, thanks? :)
[10:08] <Nafallo> baah :-P
[10:08] <ajmitch> ie, does the UI show first? does it die when playing?
[10:08] <ajmitch> before we have to beat you with some bugreporter's guide :)
[10:08] <maswan> HiddenWolf: I should probably slap a CC license or something onto that pic then
[10:08] <HiddenWolf> maswan, no licence is fair game. :)
[10:08] <maswan> any preferences from around here?
[10:10] <maswan> HiddenWolf: no license is (technically) a copyright violation if you reproduce or publish it or a derivative work. not that I'd care, probably. Probably. Do you feel lucky, punk? ;)
[10:10] <Nafallo> wow!
[10:10] <HiddenWolf> maswan, sue me. ;)
[10:10] <infinity> maswan: I like the one in the middle of 5221 even more.
[10:11] <HiddenWolf> it's sweet!
[10:11] <Nafallo> ehrm
[10:11] <infinity> maswan: Slap a BSD/MIT/X11 license on 5221.jpg, so I can download it and abuse it, kthx.
[10:11] <maswan> infinity: the one looking towards the camera?
[10:11] <Nafallo> slomo_: I have a new error for you :-P
[10:12] <Nafallo> slomo_: Unhandled Exception: DBus.DBusException: No reply within specified time
[10:12] <infinity> maswan: Yeah.  Pretty much dead centre in the image.
[10:12] <Nafallo> slomo_: on trying to launch banshee ;-)
[10:12] <slomo_> Nafallo: wtf?
[10:12] <Nafallo> damnit! I can't reproduce my bug because of another bug? ;-)
[10:12] <infinity> I want a big lawn with ducklings all over it to spend my lunchtime at.
[10:13] <maswan> infinity: that's in the middle of our university campus
[10:14] <infinity> maswan: Apparently, I need to move.
[10:14] <Nafallo> ajmitch: is the bug good enough now? ;-)
[10:14] <Nafallo> maswan: they must be freezing now :-P
[10:15] <maswan> Nafallo: ducks are migratory birds.
[10:15] <Nafallo> oh. they are still here in Eskilstuna anyway :-)
[10:15] <HiddenWolf> So once we let dapper loose, he'll go away from us! ;)
[10:15] <Nafallo> lol
[10:15] <maswan> Nafallo: well, we might have some aronud, but most go south since there isn't much open water aronud
[10:15] <HiddenWolf> out of control, baby!
[10:16] <Nafallo> here all of them seems to stay :-P
[10:17] <maswan> infinity: that ok, or should I chose one?
[10:17] <Nafallo> but then, they have the whole Eskilstunan ;-)
[10:17] <maswan> infinity: my intent should be fairly clear though
[10:17] <Nafallo> slomo_: please check the bug and then bring something heavy when you visit this summer ;-)
[10:18] <infinity> maswan: Probably less ambiguous if you actually pick a license, and either include the text or link to a rather stable copy elsewhere.
[10:20] <infinity> maswan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License#Text_of_the_license
[10:20] <infinity> maswan: Fill in the blanks. :)
[10:21] <maswan> infinity: ok, working on it. :)
[10:21] <slomo_> Nafallo: tomorrow :) i have some other work to do currently
[10:22] <Nafallo> slomo_: oki :-P
[10:23] <maswan> infinity: there
[10:23] <infinity> MY EYES, NO LINEFEEDS!
[10:23] <infinity> (But fine, yes, thanks)
[10:25] <infinity> Well, sure.  The ducklings could cause a cuteness overload and make my monitor blow up.
[10:25] <infinity> I understand the risks.
[10:26] <maswan> and girlfriends might want to prefer staring at ducklings than making out. :P
[10:26] <HiddenWolf> lol
[10:26] <HiddenWolf> quite a few gays I know as well, for that matter. :)
[10:27] <Nafallo> maswan: bad girlfriends then ;-)
[10:29] <HiddenWolf> omg@l-r-m changelog
[10:29] <HiddenWolf> a hex editor to change a path? :S
[10:29] <desrt> :)
[10:29] <desrt> in libGL?
[10:30] <HiddenWolf> yup
[10:30] <desrt> a symlink would have been easier :p
[10:31] <HiddenWolf> guess so. :)
[10:31] <infinity> Shh.
[10:31] <infinity> I want /usr/X11R6 dead.  Dead.
[10:31] <infinity> (also, it works, don't complain)
[10:31] <desrt> fair enough
[10:31] <desrt> please tell me you patched the fglrx module before fixing libGL
[10:31] <infinity> Read the changelog yourself. :)
[10:31] <infinity> (Yes)
[10:31] <desrt> there are going to be a lot of unhappy people otherwise :)
[10:31] <desrt> awesome.
[10:32] <infinity> I'm running fglrx on my laptop right now.
[10:32] <desrt> hm.  not on my archive yet
[10:32] <desrt> alas!
[10:32] <infinity> Console switching is happy, quitting X is happy, etc, etc.
[10:32] <infinity> Seems all fixed.
[10:32] <mjg59> infinity: Poor you
[10:32] <infinity> mjg59: I'll switch back to radeon shortly, I'm just dogfooding it for a bit to make sure it's all good.
[10:32] <infinity> mjg59: Oh, speaking of my laptop.  Any interest in figure out WTF I'm permanently stuck at 800MHz now?
[10:33] <mjg59> Plenty of interest, some lack of time
[10:33] <HiddenWolf> I'm wondering if the new drivers allow me to use nvidia again
[10:33] <infinity> mjg59: Pretty undergrads?
[10:33] <HiddenWolf> kernel hardlocks are so well, bad.
[10:33] <mjg59> Oh christ. Why is texinfo failing postinst?
[10:34] <mjg59> infinity: Only the one
[10:34] <infinity> HiddenWolf: I gave something close to 0 testing to the nvidia version bump this time, owing to my girlfriend not letting me near her computer.
[10:34] <desrt> man
[10:34] <HiddenWolf> infinity, heh, usually it's the other way around. ;)
[10:34] <desrt> your girlfriend isn't stupid
[10:34] <infinity> HiddenWolf: Not much changed, though, so... If you were broken before, you probably still are.
[10:35] <infinity> desrt: She spent the whole weekend playing video games and glaring at me every time I asked if I could reboot her machine to test something...
[10:35] <psusi> infinity, would it be possible for a package to cause an alternate initramfs to be build and a new grub boot option to use that or the regular one?
[10:35] <desrt> oh.  that's different
[10:35] <infinity> psusi: In theory, yes.
[10:35] <desrt> i'd have been like "i know if you touch it you'll break it.  no."
[10:36] <maswan> infinity: you should try waving duckling pics at her for distraction purposes? ;P
[10:36] <infinity> maswan: Might work.
[10:36] <psusi> infinity, would it be that hard/require significant changes to things like update-grub and update-initramfs?
[10:36] <psusi> or just dropping the right config files in place?
[10:36] <psusi> forget ducklings... use baby pics
[10:36] <psusi> ;)
[10:37] <infinity> psusi: Making grub aware of the fact that you want multiple initrds for your kernel would take some hacking.
[10:37] <infinity> psusi: Building the alternate initramfs with mkinitramfs should "Just Work", if you know what you're doing.
[10:37] <psusi> infinity, I don't think so... just add another entry to the boot menu that gives a different initrd command
[10:37] <infinity> psusi: But what are oyu trying to solve?
[10:38] <psusi> infinity, I was just brainstorming... last night I was fixing the defrag package to build on amd64... and Yagisan asked if you could use it to defrag the root filesystem...
[10:38] <psusi> I thought sure, if you built it into an initramfs ;)
[10:39] <infinity> Or if you start a recovery/single session...
[10:39] <psusi> no... that mounts the filesystem
[10:39] <infinity> (or can it not even be mounted read-only when defrag runs?)
[10:39] <psusi> of course not... it's moving stuff around ;)
[10:39] <psusi> the kernel would get really confused
[10:39] <infinity> Err, not single, but single,ro
[10:39] <psusi> nope... can't even be mounted ro
[10:39] <infinity> But, yeah.  If you can't even do that, then a boot disk or initrd is the way to go, yes.
[10:40] <psusi> think out it... the defrag program could relocate it's own blocks on disk... and the kernel wouldn't know it
[10:40] <jmg> hey guys
[10:41] <jmg> anyone got gnome 2beta packages for breezy?
[10:41] <psusi> I need to figure out how to get a list of files that are read during bootup, so I can tell defrag to pack them all at the start of the disk
[10:41] <Burgundavia> jmg, 2.13.4?
[10:41] <jmg> Burgundavia: yea
[10:41] <Burgundavia> jmg, in Dapper, yes
[10:42] <infinity> Meh.  I'm going to have to hunt down this gcj-4.0 failure on ia64, or the whole port will go down in a spectacular fireball.  Pain.
[10:42] <tuhl> thanks for the beagle workaround
[10:42] <infinity> psusi: You might get that for free once people re-work the readahead-list package to actually dyanmically figure out what's being read, and readahead accordingly.
[10:43] <psusi> infinity, yea...
[10:43] <infinity> psusi: It's meant to track these things and keep a state file.  So, you could use that (once it exists)
[10:43] <infinity> psusi: I'd imagine you'd want to talk to Keybuk about that.  Or maybe Mithrandir.  Both were interested.
[10:43] <jmg> Burgundavia: is it wise to be using dapper at this stage?
[10:43] <psusi> yea... right now it just has a static list of files that it orders into the order their first blocks appear on disk at shutdown
[10:43] <Burgundavia> jmg, if you can deal with breakage and don't need it to be up 100%
[10:44] <Burgundavia> jmg, i.e., don't do business critical work on it
[10:44] <psusi> last night I took that list of files and fed it to defrag to pack them all at the start of the disk
[10:44] <jmg> i want jingle :)
[10:44] <jmg> Burgundavia: as long as emacs doesnt break i can still do all the work i need
[10:44] <jmg> i might upgrade later.. got some work to do now
[10:44] <jmg> thanks tho
[10:47] <Tm_T> small question: how installer acts if it can't reach harddisk?
[10:48] <Tm_T> I have interesting problem here
[11:09] <psusi> is it just me or do e2fsprogs use an insanely large journal size?  why would you need a 122 meg journal for a 10 gig partition?
[11:11] <Nafallo> minus 5% reserved for root?
[11:11] <psusi> huh?  what's that got to do with anything?
[11:11] <psusi> the journal inode is 122 megs on this 10 gig partition
[11:12] <psusi> I would think that 4 MB would be more than sufficient
[11:12] <Nafallo> ah. we had someone on #ubuntu.se that forget the 5% reserved today so that's why I instantly replied here aswell ;-).
[11:12] <Nafallo> (he checked in diffrent ways though :-P)
[11:12] <psusi> ahh
[11:31] <HiddenWolf> jdub, fridge has some weird css, links on top of the fridge picture