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[12:36] <daniels> hm
[12:36] <Burgundavia> daniels, ?
[12:36] <daniels> what's going on with hal and g-v-m? they don't appear to have made the dbus transition yet
[12:38] <jmg> danny do you know when we get X11r7?
[12:39] <daniels> jmg: dude, you've had it for a while now
[12:40] <jmg> PERHAPS BONG HITS WILL FIX MY KEYBOARD EXTENSION
[12:41] <daniels> xkb needs a lot more than just bong hits
[12:41] <jmg> lsd25
[12:42] <maswan> jmg: is that half an ld50 of lsd?
[12:44] <jmg> nah
[12:45] <jmg> that would be ld25
[12:46] <jmg> the ld50 dose of acid is 12,000 ug
[12:46] <daniels> (possibly somewhat offtopic ...)
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[12:47] <maswan> so, how much would that be in donations to x.org to fix xkb?
=== maswan ducks
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[12:54] <daniels> maswan: just bribe my friends to stay clear of me for a couple of weekends and most of the braindamage should disappear
[12:55] <HiddenWolf> daniels, don't make us lock you up. ;)
[12:55] <HiddenWolf> dangerous ideas... :)
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[01:31] <nekohayo> has anyone achieved compiling audacity 1.3 or from cvs?
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[01:46] <mjg59> Why does apt-get install gcc suggest libc6-dev-amd64?
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[01:50] <lifeless> gcc needs the libc headers to compile C code ?
[01:50] <elmo> he means on i386
[01:50] <mjg59> I'm not on amd64
[01:51] <lifeless> oh. fucked if I know
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[01:52] <infinity> mjg59: To compile with -m64
[01:52] <mjg59> infinity: Ah
[01:59] <Hobbsee> Do we have an ETA for dapper flight cd 3?  I cant seem to find anything relevant on the wiki about it
[02:00] <daniels> Hobbsee: no
[02:00] <Hobbsee> ok
[02:01] <crimsun> elmo: please sync amule, efax-gtk, and gauche-gtk from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes, thanks.
[02:02] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: sir
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[02:06] <shaya> infinity: you here?
[02:18] <infinity> shaya: Yes (but you know that already... <glances at /msg>)
[02:19] <elmo> umm, how good is resizing of partitions these days?  and short of rebooting the installer, what's a good tool to do it with?
[02:19] <Mez> elmo - parted :D
[02:19] <Mez> and depends on what type of partition you're resixing
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[02:19] <mjg59> elmo: Decent, and yeah, parted ought to be the same code
[02:20] <Mez> though you might wanna use a GUI - gparted/qtparted - as parted itself is amazingly annoying :D
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[02:21] <elmo> it's NTFS, I'd like to resize - tho if there's any danger of it eating the disk, I'd rather re-boot to the installer and resize my / ext3
[02:21] <daniels> Mez: you seem to be using ':D' as punctuation, rather than something with actual meaning
[02:22] <Mez> elmo - the installer uses parted for resizing etc. 
[02:22] <psusi> anyone understand udev well?  I need to fix it to create the control device /dev/pktcdvd/control and have it owned by the cdrom group
[02:22] <Mez> daniels-  have you not heard - it's the new full stop
[02:22] <mjg59> elmo: I've resized multiple NTFS partitions without any problems so far
[02:22] <psusi> elmo, I have resized by NTFS partition with ntfsresize several times without incident
[02:23] <elmo> hmm, gparted won't do NTFS
[02:23] <psusi> nope, it won't
=== Mez is sure it did for me
[02:23] <psusi> it also doesn't do non standard disks/partitions, like lvm and dmraid
[02:23] <mjr> gparted will do NTFS with the ntfs utilities if they are present
[02:23] <psusi> so I just had to use ntfsresize + fdisk from the command line
[02:24] <elmo> mjr: good call
[02:26] <crimsun> psusi: erm, it's already that way according to /etc/udev/rules.d/{20-names,40-permissions}.rules
[02:28] <elmo> Error: Attempt to read sectors 128-128 outside of partition on /dev/hda
[02:29] <elmo> if you guys make me reinstall windows IN FRENCH for the 3rd time this evening, I WILL HUNT YOU ALL DOWN
[02:29] <psusi> crimsun, I think I figured it out... there are two lines... the first is matching on "pktcdvd" and only sets MODE=644
[02:29] <psusi> I think that's what is applying... it sets the mode on the control node to 644... I changed it to GROUP="cdrom" like the line under it
[02:30] <psusi> think that should work?
[02:30] <crimsun> psusi: the rules are applied sequentially. There's no reason why line 36 wouldn't work.
[02:31] <psusi> crimsun, yea.. there is... because it specifies [0-9] *
[02:31] <psusi> wait... maybe I should just change the * to a +?  that means match 0 or more right?
[02:31] <crimsun> * means match 0 or more
[02:31] <psusi> hrm...
[02:32] <psusi> what's + then?
[02:32] <crimsun> has no meaning in that context
[02:32] <psusi> it isn't a regular expression?
[02:32] <crimsun> (i.e., invalid)
[02:32] <psusi> I can never remember which was which, but in regex, one means 1 or more, and the other means 0 or more
[02:33] <psusi> in any case... /dev/pktcdvd/control is created with mode 644 and owned by root.root
[02:33] <Mez> elmo - any reason it's in french (and any reason you're installing windows?)
[02:33] <elmo> o2#%"#%"%"#T%R"
[02:33] <Mez> O_o
[02:33] <elmo> ok, gparted has entirely SNAFUed this drive
[02:33] <Mez> FUN
[02:34] <mjg59> elmo: Hm. How?
[02:34] <psusi> well, going to reboot and see if that fixed the control file perms... brb
[02:36] <elmo> mjg59: it created a /dev/hda4, which is at the end of the partition  table according to dmesg, but fdisk -l thinks it starts before the swap and has 0 blocks
[02:38] <mjg59> elmo: Being at the end of the partition table doesn't preclude it coming before other partitoins
[02:38] <mjg59> The length of 0 is more interesting
[02:38] <mjg59> What does /proc/partitions say?
[02:38] <elmo> 0 blocks too
[02:39] <elmo>  (and 3 4 major/minor)
[02:39] <elmo> aksim /u dib;t th
[02:39] <elmo> err, also I don't think the ntfsresize worked
[02:39] <elmo> the NTFS partition looks to still be 39G
[02:39] <elmo> which would explain the 0 size new partition
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[02:39] <mjg59> elmo: Have you rebooted?
[02:39] <elmo> yes
[02:39] <psusi> yep, that fixed it
[02:39] <mjg59> Ok
[02:40] <psusi> udev now correctly creates the device
[02:40] <crimsun> psusi: submit a patch for udev
[02:40] <psusi> will do
[02:40] <psusi> bug it in bugzilla?
[02:40] <crimsun> sure
[02:40] <psusi> ok
[02:41] <psusi> hrm... now I need to figure out how to get the pktcdvd module to auto load
[02:41] <psusi> normal users can't load it
[02:42] <psusi> I guess add it to /etc/modules?  or is there a better way?
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[02:49] <psusi> oh crap
[02:49] <psusi> hal runs with no permissions
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[02:57] <psusi> well this is a problem then...
[02:58] <Robot101> psusi: mjg59 is working on the unpriveleged hal thing
[02:59] <mjg59> "working"
[02:59] <mjg59> I know what needs doing, I may do it soon unless I can convince pitti to do it
[02:59] <psusi> well, I need hal to have some privs... so its callouts can do things... the hal user is listed in the cdrom, floppy, hal and plugdev groups in /etc/groups, only the process doesn't belong to ANY groups
[03:00] <psusi> shouldn't it be in those groups?
[03:01] <mjg59> psusi: You need to wait for privilege escalation code
[03:01] <psusi> eh?
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[03:02] <psusi> shouldn't it at least be in the hal group?  and preferably cdrom since it's listed in /etc/groups?  that would be sufficient for my needs
[03:02] <mjg59> psusi: We've made a policy decision that hal will run without priveleges
[03:02] <psusi> without ANY privs?
[03:02] <psusi> I understand not wanting it to be root... but... at least the hal group? ;)
[03:02] <mjg59> So now we need to write a small amount of code to allow it to run things with privileges when necessary
[03:03] <mjg59> You'll have to ask pitti precisely what it's doing right now
[03:03] <mjg59> I haven't checked what changes he's made
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[03:05] <mjg59> psusi: But by the looks of it (checking in /proc), it's running with access to cdrom, floppy, plugdev and hal
[03:06] <psusi> mjg59, hrm... yea... looks like hald is... but the callout it runs doesn't seem to be... because it's trying to access a devnode owned by the cdrom group and group read/write and failing... and the GROUPS environment variable is empty
[03:06] <mjg59> Hm. No idea, I'm afraid.
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=== desrt hugs infinity 
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[03:38] <minghua> hello, is there official words for the dummy package xlibs-dev in dapper?  is it going to be removed?
[03:38] <minghua> I am working on a package and noticed it build-depends on xlibs-dev (only), such is RC bug in debian now
[03:39] <minghua> as Xorg 6.9 in unstable got rid of xlibs-dev
[03:40] <daniels> it won't be removed for dappper because colin will bludgeon me to death
[03:40] <daniels> but you should be removing all references to xlibs-dev and replace them with the alternatives which have been available since xfree86 4.3
[03:40] <daniels> it'll disappear early in dapper+1, i assume
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[03:45] <minghua> daniels: thanks
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[03:46] <minghua> daniels: it's not my package (I was just trying to fix a FTFBS), so I probably won't fix it myself, I'll file a debian bug though (if there isn't one already)
[03:48] <daniels> minghua: there's going to be a mass-filing soon, so don't worry about it
[03:48] <minghua> oh okay, thanks
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[03:59] <ajmitch> looks like the mass-filing has started
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[04:04] <elmo> can I get rid of the auto-icon-ing of partitions on the desktop somehow?
[04:04] <mjg59> elmo: While still mounting them?
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[04:04] <elmo> mjg59: yeah
[04:05] <mjg59> elmo: gconf-editor apps/nautilus/desktop/volumes_visible
[04:06] <elmo> mjg59: cheers
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[04:17] <elmo> grr, how do I change device ownership in our new udev world order?
[04:18] <desrt> add to the /etc/udev/rules.d
[04:19] <desrt> MODE= GROUP= and USER= actions
[04:23] <elmo> desrt: thanks
[04:25] <elmo> BUS=="ide", KERNEL=="hda2", MODE="0644", GROUP="group", USER="user"
[04:25] <elmo> that in a separate file at the end of rules.d should work right?
[04:26] <desrt> that seems right.
[04:26] <elmo> well, it doesn't :/
[04:26] <desrt> BUS isn't required here
[04:26] <desrt> did you restart udevd?
[04:26] <desrt> it runs as a daemon these days
[04:26] <elmo> I rebooted for good measure
[04:26] <desrt> heh :)
[04:27] <desrt> some earlier rule might be matching it
[04:27] <desrt> i'm not sure what the rules are about who gets priority
[04:29] <elmo> hmm, even putting it first doesn't work
[04:30] <psusi> oh FFS... can someone just kick __George from #ubuntu?  My god what a twit
[04:31] <psusi> err... George__
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[04:34] <Burgundavia> mjg59, did infinity get madwifi-ng packaged?
[04:34] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Not that I'd seen so far
[04:34] <mjg59> Burgundavia: You could just ask him :)
[04:34] <desrt> Burgundavia; no mention of it in the l-r-m changelog
[04:34] <infinity> Easier to ask others.
[04:34] <Burgundavia> mjg59, wondered if I had missed it. He did say he would get to it "soon". I won't bug him
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[04:35] <infinity> It's sitting on the side of my plate, near a blob of mustard.
[04:35] <infinity> Should get done this week.
=== desrt dons his madwifi card
[04:35] <desrt> with any luck i won't need this guy soon
[04:35] <Amaranth> daniels: no problem, help is (almost) always useful :)
=== desrt eyes the bcm driver
[04:36] <daniels> Amaranth: i live to give
=== psusi wishes pitti were here to discuss hal permissions issues
[04:36] <desrt> psusi; oh.  i'm all over that discussion
[04:36] <Burgundavia> psusi, he has a weekend too
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=== psusi was up all day and most of the night ( 4 am ish ) all weekend working on ubuntu.... does that indicate insanity?
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[04:40] <dman13> I noticed a copy-and-paste error on http://ubuntulinux.org/support.  Anyone here have privileges to change it?
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[05:01] <Mez> I'm assuming a pakage that needs multiverse stuff is fine for ubuntu ? if not for debian
[05:02] <daniels> not for any suite other than multiverse, obviously
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[05:02] <Mez> daniels - yeah - but theres no "issues" other than it needs to go in multiverse
[05:02] <floam> hi, has anyone figured out the when-using-evdev-gnome-settings-daemon dies thing yet?
[05:02] <floam> it's still happening to people
[05:03] <daniels> floam: there's a patch for g-s-d but it doesn't quite work
[05:04] <floam> daniels: oh, interesting
[05:04] <floam> where's that at?
[05:04] <floam> I thought I was watching all the bugzilla's and mailing list discussions
[05:05] <floam> daniels: if it works even slightly better than it does now, that's good enough for me ;)
[05:05] <daniels> it's on some bugzilla bug somewhere
[05:05] <floam> right now I'm wrapping gsd to start itself and then STOP it .1 seconds later
[05:05] <floam> so that at least most stuff get set up for me
[05:06] <floam> daniels: recall if it's gnome or ubuntu?
[05:06] <floam> or freedesktop
[05:06] <floam> oh, I think I found it
[05:07] <floam> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323724
[05:10] <floam> daniels: if that patch is the same one, how doesn't it work?
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[05:11] <daniels> floam: i dunno man, all I know is what I've read in bz
[05:12] <floam> heh, ok
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[05:26] <floam> hm, looks like control-center is missing build-depends for dbus headers
[05:32] <LaserJock> I was watching Mark's Debconf5 talk the other day and I believe he said that there was a place that has all of the Ubuntu patches where DDs can get them. Do any of you know what the URL is?
[05:33] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/
[05:34] <floam> daniels: it does look like the patch worked
[05:34] <floam> at least enough for it to run and not crash
[05:35] <floam> I get a bunch of stuff spammed to my terminal but that's pretty normal for GNOME and GTK apps I think.
[05:35] <LaserJock> daniels: thanks
[05:37] <Amaranth> floam: shouldn't happen, but yeah, lots of glib warnings seem to be the norm
[05:37] <floam> Amaranth: yeah.
[05:37] <Amaranth> not for long though
[05:37] <floam> I've learned not to be even slightly alarmed by scary stuff like "GDK-CRITICAL!!!!!!"
[05:38] <Amaranth> iirc as of january first something got flipped on in gnome-session that makes apps die on critical warnings
[05:38] <floam> Amaranth: oh, awesome
[05:38] <Amaranth> was supposed to happen anyway
[05:38] <floam> maybe people will be a bit more careful now :)
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[06:52] <wasabi> So is there work progressing on the ro root front?
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[06:58] <wasabi> I love you guys for including jffs2.
[07:03] <wasabi> Ya know, I would sure not mind if the kernel modules were split into more finer grained packages, like X.
[07:03] <wasabi> As I start work on more embedded stuff, I realize it would be nice to be able to pick and choose which modules I had installed, while not having to build it all myself.
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[08:11] <desrt> hello pitti
[08:11] <pitti> Good morning
[08:12] <desrt> psusi wants to talk to you about hal permissions :)
[08:12] <pitti> hi desrt 
[08:12] <pitti> hm, not online as it seems
[08:12] <desrt> (a good start to any monday morning!)
[08:12] <pitti> indeed :)
[08:13] <jsgotangco> good morning pitti 
=== desrt looks at gnome-terminal annoyed
[08:13] <desrt> ubuntu has spoilt me to the point that i'm annoyed that i have to wait for gtk to compile
[08:14] <zakame> heya pitti :)
=== StevenK glares at moin.
=== StevenK wonders if he cares enough to debug why dh_python adds a python2.3 dependancy for the third time, or just give up, ignore dh_python and upload a debdiff.
[08:16] <zakame> waah
[08:16] <Keybuk> I've taken to ignoring dh_python, it seems to nearly always do the wrong thing for me too
=== desrt makes bed while waiting
[08:18] <StevenK> It seems to work okay for Linda, but like that's a litmus test.
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[08:23] <pitti> desrt: there's a gtk version we don't have yet? :)
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[08:25] <sobersabre> oh!
[08:25] <sobersabre> does anybody here work with amd64 ?
[08:25] <Burgundavia> desrt, better file a bug. seb will be annoyed at that
[08:25] <desrt> pitti; seb packaged a bogus vendorpatch
[08:25] <desrt> pitti; so i was testing a patch i wrote to unbreak it
[08:26] <desrt> Burgundavia; i did :p
[08:27] <pitti> elmo: can you please backport postgresql-{common,8.0,8.1} ?
[08:29] <sobersabre> hello, dear developers. I have tried to use gdb on amd64 breezy, but got into problems with it. Does anybody here develop software ... and debugs it on amd64 ?
[08:29] <Burgundavia> sobersabre, nah, we are all m68k people here
[08:30] <sobersabre> Burgundavia, I see. no commodore guys ? 
[08:31] <wasabi> Any you experienced with Fuse?
[08:31] <wasabi> Trying to figure out how to use standard 'mount' to use it.
[08:31] <wasabi> (and thus pmount)
[08:32] <pitti> sobersabre: can you be a bit more specific, please?
[08:32] <sobersabre> pitti, I can: gdb dies with SIGSEGV  on hello world.
[08:32] <pitti> oops
[08:32] <sobersabre> it dies with ANYTHING
[08:33] <pitti> sobersabre: is there already a bug open?
[08:33] <sobersabre> I found nothing on this over www, and nobody seems to be a developer and an owner of amd64 machine.
[08:33] <pitti> I can take a look at it when I'm back at my amd64 box
[08:33] <sobersabre> pitti, I have browsed bugzilla, and added comment to an existing bug.
[08:33] <Keybuk> sobersabre: we have several developers who use amd64
[08:34] <pitti> sobersabre: which one?
[08:34] <sobersabre> Keybuk, and do those developers use ubuntu ? and do they develop ?
[08:34] <Nafallo> sobersabre: rather we use amd64 but are running dapper on them :-)
[08:34] <Keybuk> sobersabre: obviously
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[08:34] <sobersabre> Keybuk, I also 'oviously' installed a release and gdb is broken... what do you say ?
[08:34] <sobersabre>  :)
[08:34] <Keybuk> Lathiat: waaah!  libnss-mdns recommends zeroconf, so aptitude pulled it in
[08:34] <Keybuk> sobersabre: WORKSFORTHEM
[08:34] <dholbach> good morning
[08:35] <Keybuk> so clearly there's something about your machine/setup/install/etc. that breaks gdb
[08:35] <sobersabre> breezy ?
[08:35] <Keybuk> dholbach: morning *hugs*
=== dholbach hugs Keybuk
[08:35] <sobersabre> Keybuk, breezy ?
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[08:35] <Lathiat> Keybuk: heh
[08:35] <sobersabre> If you say dapper is functional - I reinstall now.
[08:35] <Lathiat> Keybuk: because anand maintains libnss-mdns, and anand wrote zeroconf
[08:35] <Lathiat> zeroconf is fine but apparently has a nasty bug
=== pitti hugs dholbach 
[08:36] <Lathiat> apparently caused issues at UBZ?
[08:36] <dholbach> hey pitti :)
[08:36] <sobersabre> would somebody hug me, I cannot debug!!!!!
=== pitti hugs sobersabre 
[08:36] <sobersabre> thanks.
[08:36] <pitti> sobersabre: gdb gdb :)
=== zakame hugs sobersabre 
[08:36] <Keybuk> Lathiat: yeah, it caused massive issues ... and it interferes with network-manager and ifupdown
[08:36] <Keybuk> e.g. you can't ifup an interface that's been zeroconf'd
=== desrt hugs the universe
=== desrt hugs main and restricted too
[08:36] <sobersabre> desrt, you have long arms......
[08:36] <desrt> no love for multiverse
[08:37] <sobersabre> hehe
[08:37] <Keybuk> Lathiat: we don't need libnss-mdns right?
[08:37] <Lathiat> libnss-mdns is nice
[08:37] <Lathiat> lets you resolve .local addresses
[08:37] <Keybuk> "nice" ?
[08:37] <Keybuk> it's in universe ... :p
[08:37] <Lathiat> perhaps do a local mod of it to drop zeroconf to Suggests ?
[08:37] <Keybuk> that's what I was going to do
[08:38] <Keybuk> drop libnss-mdns to suggests, as that's the one in universe
[08:38] <Keybuk> or should we promote that one, and then drop zeroconf?
[08:38] <Lathiat> 'drop' zeroconf?
[08:38] <Keybuk> hmm, libnss-mdns looks useful to me, maybe drop zeroconf to suggests
[08:38] <Keybuk> drop to suggests
[08:38] <Lathiat> yeh, libnss-mdns is good
[08:39] <sobersabre> Burgundavia, I meant: 'Burgundavia, I see no commodore guys' 
[08:39] <Keybuk> any reason libnss-mdns isn't in main?
[08:40] <daniels> Keybuk: at a guess, 'mdns'
[08:40] <Keybuk> daniels: ?
[08:40] <Keybuk> daniels: avahi is in main now
[08:40] <sobersabre> guys. does dapper allow you to work with not much fuss ?
[08:40] <Lathiat> Keybuk: because no one asked for it to be promoted?
[08:40] <jdub> Keybuk: we should have libnss-mdns by default :-)
[08:40] <Lathiat> sobersabre: dapper may at any time break horribly, it also may work
[08:41] <Seveas> sobersabre, until release the answer to that is no
[08:41] <jdub> sobersabre: yes, it's designed to be dogfoodable for developers and testers
[08:41] <desrt> Seveas!
[08:41] <sobersabre> I need gdb on amd64.
[08:41] <Seveas> desrt
[08:41] <desrt> 'sup dude?
[08:41] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, looking at it I think I agree -- it's the gubbins that let's you adhoc DNS on your adhoc network, right?
[08:41] <jdub> yes
[08:41] <jdub> .local lovin'
[08:41] <Keybuk> sounds cute to me
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[08:42] <jdub> mdz had concerns about adding it to nsswitch by default
[08:42] <Lathiat> it means your hostnames published by mdns, e.g. archer.local, can be used by anything
[08:42] <Seveas> desrt, waking up is up (just waking up after 4 hours sleep and a terrible nightmare involving schaaaaakes)
[08:42] <jdub> which is the only reason why it hasn't been included before
[08:42] <Lathiat> it doesnt let you resolve anythign non-.local by default
[08:42] <Seveas> schnaaaaakes
[08:42] <Lathiat> so helps a bit in regards to security
[08:42] <desrt> is that like a snake?
[08:42] <Keybuk> start an ubuntu-devel discussion
[08:42] <Lathiat> e.g. i can't just go and publish some random hostnames in mdns to steal your passwords
[08:43] <sobersabre> Seveas, I stopped watching nightmares... it's boring.
[08:43] <desrt> Lathiat; can you put 'local' as your search domain in resolv.conf?
[08:43] <Keybuk> I remember talking about it a year or so ago, I expect things are better since then
[08:43] <desrt> Lathiat; or is resolv.conf below the nss level?
[08:43] <Lathiat> desrt: ya
[08:43] <Lathiat> nope
[08:43] <desrt> neat.
[08:43] <Seveas> mdns-nss would rock the 'it all works' huggy feely feeling Ubuntu has :)
[08:43] <desrt> ya.  it's very ubuntuish
[08:44] <desrt> what would really be neat, though, would be out of the box file sharing
=== desrt looks cautiously at pitti 
[08:45] <Seveas> ROFL!
[08:45] <Seveas> that is just the most bizarre coincidence ever
[08:45] <desrt> ahem.  perhaps not.
[08:45] <sobersabre> Keybuk, as for gdb: I may have some mess in my prev. breezy on amd64, let's assume there is a problem with the package. how do I make it to be resolved ?
[08:46] <sobersabre> desrt, how about a nice out of the box remote root ?
[08:46] <desrt> sobersabre; only if it makes things easier for the user :)
[08:46] <Keybuk> sobersabre: file a bug, and provide as much information about your system and how to replicate it
[08:46] <Keybuk> sobersabre: a bug along the lines of "IT DOESN'T WORK! FIX IT NOW! WAAH WAAH!" isn't that helpful
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[08:47] <sobersabre> Keybuk, the bug is filed. replication is quite easy: run gdb on hello world.
[08:47] <Keybuk> but "I have the following system: xxx, with the following package versions (of gdb, etc.): xxx, I have this binary: xxx, and when I run gdb on it, this happens: x"
[08:47] <daniels> except when talking about udev, because you have no idea which of the fifty critical bugs is biting you
[08:47] <Seveas> Keybuk, the amount of that type of bugs in $(RANDOM_BUGZILLA) suggests otherwise ;)
[08:47] <Keybuk> sobersabre: clearly that doesn't replicate it, otherwise other amd64 users would have the same problem
[08:47] <desrt> pitti; was the shock too much for you?
[08:47] <sobersabre> Keybuk, do I sound like: ohhhh it doesn't work fix it aasdasjgkdhajdgfsd!~!!!
[08:47] <sobersabre>  ?
[08:48] <Keybuk> sobersabre: yes ... you're failing to assume that just because it doesn't work for you, it doesn't mean it also doesn't work for everyone else
[08:48] <pitti> desrt: sorry, X crash - did you ask me anything?
[08:48] <Keybuk> daniels: grow up
[08:48] <sobersabre> Keybuk, maybe most of the 'users' don't use gdb.... is it possible ?
[08:48] <Keybuk> sobersabre: users maybe, but we have many developers on amd64 as I said
[08:48] <desrt> pitti; just something about having filesharing ala zeroconf setup out of the box :)
[08:48] <Seveas> pitti, http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/quotes?minid=49
[08:48] <sobersabre> OK that had some kind of convincing power...
[08:48] <pitti> daniels: hmm, I tried the "EXA" option, now the screen parts that were scrambled before work; unfortunately some parts that worked before are now scrambled
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[08:48] <pitti> desrt: /quit vomit
[08:49] <desrt> pitti; see the quote.  it was quite funny :)
[08:49] <daniels> pitti: sounds about right ...
[08:49] <pitti> hehe
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[08:49] <sobersabre> ok.. I am rebooting. I will be in touch.
[08:50] <pitti> daniels: means you expected that? it's not exactly what I call 'mitigate' :)
[08:51] <daniels> pitti: ati in general is pretty screwed, and there's not a lot we can do, short of you sending benh your laptop for a while, or ati actually sinking some time into the driver
[08:52] <daniels> argh, 7pm already
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[08:59] <pitti> hi mvo
=== pitti hugs mvo
[09:00] <Keybuk> morning mvo *hugs*
[09:00] <dholbach> hellas mvo
=== pitti changes computer, brb
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[09:03] <mvo> good morning pitti, dholbach, Keybuk
[09:04] <zakame> heya mvo :)
[09:04] <mvo> hello zakame :)
[09:04] <Burgundavia> mvo, is automatic updates a go for dapper? What about the dist-upgrade tool?
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[09:07] <mvo> Burgundavia: automatic security updates is in, needs testing (I backported it to breezy to get more people using it). dist-upgrade tool is worked on, I'm pretty sure we'll get it
[09:07] <pvanhoof> aaah, fresh morning .. fresh dapper packages
[09:07] <Burgundavia> mvo, cool, thanks
[09:07] <pvanhoof> Just love the smell of them
[09:07] <pvanhoof> (yea, it's morning in europe)
[09:08] <Burgundavia> pvanhoof, it is morning here too, by 8 min
[09:08] <pvanhoof> good morning then, Burgundavia  ;)
[09:09] <pvanhoof> urk .. nautilus is less stable :)
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[09:18] <Tm_T> in what situation dapper installer gives black screen and "Killed" flood? happens every time when installer reaches partitioning step
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[09:24] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: hmm, do you have very little memory in that system?
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[09:29] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: very little, only 64
[09:29] <Tm_T> I think
=== Tm_T is trying to get shell server running
[09:30] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: it should work with 64, but probably not with 32.
[09:30] <Tm_T> aye
[09:31] <Tm_T> I tried two breezy install-cd and now flight-2, all crashes when should partition HD
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[09:33] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: soo, any idea where's the problem and what I can do for it
[09:33] <Tm_T> there's anything I can test?
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[09:35] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: you might have more luck with trying a lowmem install
[09:35] <Tm_T> aye, will try it
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[09:37] <Tm_T> haha, this server has as much displaydriver men than system ram =)
[09:38] <Keybuk> hmm
[09:38] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: ok, how I get lowmem install, I haven't slept for awhile and I'm bit confused ;(
[09:38] <Keybuk> Planet Ubuntu is showing the same "Dude, where's my CSS?" bug as the website
[09:39] <zakame> waah
[09:39] <jdub> Keybuk: puc used the plone stylesheets.
[09:39] <jdub> Keybuk: they disappeared. (once planet shifts machines, it'll be fine.)
[09:43] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: hmm, it appears it should autodetect, which means our numbers are off.  Just try to boot the installer with the framebuffer turned off and see if that helps.  "linux debian-installer/framebuffer=false" on the syslinux command line
[09:43] <Tm_T> ah, yes, thank you sir
[09:45] <freeflying> How to patch configure file 
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[09:47] <dholbach_> hellas koke
[09:47] <koke> hi there!
=== mvo waves to koke 
[09:52] <Tm_T> o7
[09:53] <jsgotangco> hey
[09:53] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: sir, that's the trick =)
[09:54] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: thank you :)
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[09:55] <Seveas> jdub, I have better stylesheets for planet.ubuntu.com if you want them
[09:55] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: yay, great. :-)
[09:55] <Seveas> they display OK in IE and other crap browsers :)
[09:55] <Mithrandir> Tm_T: can you file a bug against "lowmem" and tell us that we need to revisit the memory limits?
[09:57] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: sure, just if I manage to install this ;)
[09:58] <jdub> Seveas: that'd be handy, seeing as i'll have to redo them without the plone layout/css - thanks :)
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[09:58] <Seveas> jdub, i'll tar.gz up my planet templates and send them to you
[09:59] <Seveas> (yes, you need another template, less plone-ish but looks the same)
[09:59] <Seveas> see planet.ubuntu-nl.org
[09:59] <jdub> great, i hated the plone html
[09:59] <Seveas> :)
[10:00] <Seveas> i'll fix them up a bit, expect them in your mailbox in a few hours :)
[10:00] <jdub> thanks
[10:00] <Treenaks> hmm
[10:00] <Treenaks> I'm supposed to kick daniels today
[10:00] <Treenaks> but he isn't here
[10:02] <Amaranth> "glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark" <--go daniels! :D
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[10:03] <Treenaks> Amaranth: nah, he was going to tell me how to make a register dump of my ATi card (fglrx works; ati/radeon driver doesn't)
[10:03] <Amaranth> oh, i didn't even see that bit
[10:03] <Amaranth> i just saw ubotu tell someone to do that to make glxgears show fps numbers
[10:03] <Tm_T> aye
[10:05] <Mithrandir> I was hoping he'd push that fps-removing patch upstream, but apparently, he hasn't
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[10:06] <Amaranth> fed up with people using glxgears to show how the latest ATI drivers are 3 fps slower than the old ones?
[10:06] <zakame> heya seb128 
[10:06] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: yes, since it's not a benchmark.
[10:06] <Amaranth> hey seb128 
[10:06] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: flipping a coin to decide which is faster is just as useful
[10:06] <mdke> they spoil it for the rest of us who want to see the difference between 1000 and 100
[10:06] <Amaranth> Mithrandir: It does have one use though.
[10:07] <Amaranth> what mdke said
[10:07] <mdke> it depends how you define benchmark really
[10:07] <seb128> hi zakame Amaranth
[10:08] <Mithrandir> mdke: it's useless as a benchmark, since 3d apps doesn't OpenGL that way.  3d apps are usually games and they are just pushing zillions of triangles to the screen as fast as possible.
[10:08] <mdke> Mithrandir, what does it do?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> it doesn't use shaders and texture mapping, for instance
[10:09] <mdke> except for looking pretty
[10:09] <Mithrandir> well, that's the difference of an old card and a new one.  You can do the pretty graphics with the new one.
=== jdub can run gta:sa at 1920x1200 with his new card. :o
[10:10] <fabbione> jdub: only?
[10:10] <jdub> :)
[10:11] <Mithrandir> mdke: also, textures and such aren't just "looking pretty".  It's more a question of being reasonable at all or not.
=== fabbione points jdub to his 3 heads gaming station ;)
[10:11] <mdke> Mithrandir, sure, I meant "why does the app exist?"
[10:12] <Mithrandir> mdke: hysterical raisins, I guess. Possibly also so people who want to play with and learn opengl has a starting point.
[10:12] <Mithrandir> it's just a sample application, just like the apps which come with gtk
[10:12] <Amaranth> mdke: fun tech demo
[10:13] <Nafallo> pitti: I have a debdiff for three CVEs in drupal, but all translations in UTF-8 got added when I did dpkg-buildpackage -S :-P. should I touch debian/rules in this case?
[10:13] <mdke> Amaranth, Mithrandir, fair enough
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[10:15] <Nafallo> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6831 <-- from the top of debian/rules :-P
[10:19] <pitti> heh
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[10:24] <lucas> hello
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[10:34] <freeflying> looking for reviewers for this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1434
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[10:39] <lucas> freeflying: please ask on #ubuntu-motu if you really want to ask somewhere. But stopping to spam about review requests and working on merges/syncs might be a much better idea
[10:39] <freeflying> lucas: got it .thx
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[10:48] <Seveas> pitti, ping
[10:48] <pitti> Hey Seveas 
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[10:49] <Seveas> pitti, usn 235-239 are not yet on ubuntu.com
[10:49] <Seveas> that breaks the links in the RSS feed :)
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[10:50] <Seveas> btw: ubuntu.com on moin looks uglier then the plone based site :)
[10:50] <pitti> Seveas: I'm aware of that; the website was recently migrated to a new system
[10:50] <pitti> Seveas: Henrik migrated the existing USNs, but I can't yet log in to add the recent ones
[10:50] <Seveas> k
[10:50] <pitti> I lure for him, as soon as I can grab him, I'll add them
[10:50] <Seveas> thanks
[10:51] <Seveas> why the plone -> moin move?
[10:51] <mdke> it is easier to edit
[10:51] <Seveas> ah
[10:51] <mdke> ironically, given what pitti just said ;)
[10:51] <Seveas> :)
[10:51] <mdke> btw, uglier in what way?
[10:52] <mdke> any difference was probably intentional, so feedback is nice
[10:52] <Seveas> the footer has a too small font, the menu font is too lightgray, I miss the mini ubuntu logo in said menu, the tabs are smaller which I don't like
=== mdke nods at all of those
[10:53] <Seveas> the search bok has black edges/font instead of the less intrusive grey
[10:53] <mdke> most are intentional tho
[10:53] <Seveas> the 'Related Projects' text is unreadable
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[10:53] <Seveas> the news is missing from the frontpage
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[10:54] <Seveas> the footer misses its background image
[10:54] <Seveas> the footer still says 2005, where it should be 2005-2006 ;)
[10:54] <Treenaks> Seveas: 2004-2006? :)
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[10:54] <mdke> blimey, good catches
[10:54] <mdke> Seveas, file em as bugs maybe
[10:54] <mdke> certainly the ones which are obviously wrong
[10:54] <Seveas> will do
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[10:55] <Amaranth> the footer text is also microscopic here
[10:56] <mdke> the tabs are now different sizes on the various websites (wiki, fridge, planet), unfortunately
[10:56] <mdke> Seveas, rather than filing bugs, perhaps just collect them in an email to henrik
[10:59] <Seveas> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22176
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[11:01] <mdke> Seveas, that'll do :)
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[11:05] <Seveas> jdub, poke
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[11:18] <jdub> Seveas: pong
[11:19] <Seveas> jdub, nvm, already mailed it :)
[11:20] <Keybuk> infinity: dude, your patch is fucked ;)
[11:20] <Keybuk> you don't define progress_size unless there's a /dev/.initramfs
[11:25] <Keybuk> infinity: uh, in fact, what the buggery bollocks does this patch *do* ?!
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[11:30] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh, I see your "it's fucked" comment.  The progress_size definition should come outside the if block, just in case you have no initramfs state.  Feh.
[11:31] <infinity> Keybuk: Of course, I didn't test that code path, cause I had proper state. :)
[11:31] <Keybuk> what I can't work out is what the numbers mean
[11:31] <Keybuk> you divide the bits of the progress bar up wrong
[11:31] <Keybuk> did you mean for 2/3 of the bar to be used for initramfs AND rcS
[11:31] <infinity> Nope, I divide them just fine.
[11:31] <Keybuk> or did you mean for 2/3 of the bits of the bar after initramfs to be used for rcS ?
[11:31] <infinity> No, I mean for "2/3 of what initramfs didn't use" to be used for rcS.
[11:31] <Keybuk> right
[11:31] <infinity> Which is what the patch does.
[11:32] <Keybuk> ok
[11:32] <infinity> Just one line needs to move, to fix the partial upgrade / backward compat problem, that's all.
[11:32] <Keybuk> so if I make it just use 2/3 of the whole thing if no initramfs state, that should be fine
[11:32] <Keybuk> needs to move?
[11:32] <infinity> Asleep at the wheel when I stuck it in the if.
[11:32] <infinity>                 progress_size=$(((100 - $PROGRESS_STATE) / 3))
[11:32] <Keybuk> I've put the progress_size bit below the if
[11:32] <Keybuk> yeah
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[11:32] <infinity> ^-- Move that doen outside the if, and it's unbroken.
[11:33] <infinity> Yeah.  All fixed.  Since 100 - 0 is conveniently 100.
[11:34] <Keybuk> indeed
[11:34] <infinity> Anyhow, stuff moved to .initramfs to minimise people thinking the other directory should exist for more than a day.
[11:34] <Keybuk> have mixed that in with my code to do the "count down from 100 to 0 in rc0/rc6"
[11:34] <Keybuk> ok
[11:34] <Keybuk> I'll change this to use .initramfs too
[11:34] <infinity> And the above bug not fixed, since you pointed it out about 2 seconds after I pulled the upload trigger. :)
[11:35] <infinity> But that's okay, I should attempt to sleep anyway.
[11:35] <infinity> Had a 2 hour nap this evening, after being up for 40+ hours :/
[11:35] <infinity> Need to go have more.
[11:35] <Keybuk> you just LOVE uploading beneath me, don't you
[11:35] <infinity> AND HOW!
=== Kinnison gets very very wrong mental images
[11:36] <Kinnison> I still assert this is too early in the working year for this kind of thing
[11:36] <infinity> Well, to be fair, I'd rather be on top, but.  <shrug>... I'm not too picky when I'm tired.
[11:36] <Simira> Kinnison : what? I thought you were like that?
[11:37] <Kinnison> Simira: eh? wha? buh? umm... it's 01:15@2006, I'm not ready for this yet
=== Kinnison had a lovely holiday
[11:37] <Keybuk> 01:15 ?!  dude, it's 10:37am and most of us have been at work for a week already
[11:37] <Keybuk> slacker
[11:38] <Keybuk> ;)
[11:38] <Simira> 1:15? Where in the world are you?
[11:38] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I had a large amount of holiday stored up
[11:38] <Kinnison> Simira: it's 10:40am nearly
[11:38] <Kinnison> Simira: I was referring to how much I had been at work in 2006
[11:38] <Simira> ah
=== Kinnison is still getting used to typing 2006 rather than 2005
=== Simira don't like 2006
[11:39] <Kinnison> no?
[11:39] <Keybuk> I like 2006 so far
[11:39] <Seveas> 2006 so far sucks
[11:39] <Simira> nothing has gone well for me yet this year
[11:39] <Kinnison> So far, 2006 hasn't been much except resting and reading of books
[11:39] <Seveas> fiancee has a brain concushion (sp?)
[11:40] <Treenaks> concussion ?
[11:40] <Kinnison> Seveas: concussion, and erk *hug*
[11:40] <Keybuk> *hugs*
[11:40] <Seveas> :)
[11:40] <Seveas> thx
[11:40] <Keybuk> a concushion would be the opposite thing ... hitting your head on something soft
[11:40] <Seveas> lol
[11:41] <Kinnison> Keybuk: or a concussion obtained in derby or the cotswolds
[11:41] <mpt> speaking of putting one's head on something soft, bedtime for me :-)
[11:41] <Kinnison> night mpt
[11:41] <mpt> night
[11:41] <Seveas> night
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[11:55] <seb128> Nafallo: around?
[11:56] <Nafallo> seb128: yes
[11:56] <seb128> Nafallo: is network-manager known to be broken with dapper (a GNOME guy is asking me that)?
[11:56] <seb128> "<gicmo> it tells me that it doesnt find the necessary resources and just doesnt startup"
[11:56] <Nafallo> ehrm, I know Keybuk have troubles with it, but it works just fine for me.
[11:57] <seb128> k, thanks anyway
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[12:01] <\sh> seb128: it just works with dapper on my laptop :)
[12:02] <fabbione> siretart: ping?
[12:02] <Nafallo> nm-applet to the session is the only manual step :-)
[12:02] <Kinnison> yeah, that's a really annoying step too
[12:02] <Kinnison> you'd think it'd save itself in your session automatically, wouldn't you?
=== fabbione hugs Kinnison 
[12:02] <Kinnison> hey fabbione
=== Kinnison hugs
[12:02] <Kinnison> fabbione: come va?
[12:02] <Nafallo> pitti: ping
[12:03] <Mithrandir> do we support nubus pmacs at all?  As in, is there any way to get them working?
[12:03] <fabbione> Kinnison: everything is almost fine thanks and you?
[12:03] <Kinnison> fabbione: it's almost all good :-)
[12:04] <infinity> Mithrandir: If you use a custom kernel that supports the hardware, we'd RUN on them, but there's no way we SUPPORT them..
[12:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: I don't even think we support my Oldworld PCI Powermac, technically.
[12:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: ok, so I'll just tell the user that "no, we don't support that old hardware, I'm afraid".
[12:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: There's no way we could install to a Nubus Mac, and even if he got it on there, I'm pretty sure he couldn't use our kernels, so he'd have a fairly unsupported setup.
[12:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: But that doesn't stop the software from working, if he shoehorns a working ppc32 kernel on there.. <shrug>
[12:06] <Mithrandir> infinity: he doesn't appear to be that much of a technical person.
[12:07] <infinity> Right.  Then "no, we don't support it".
[12:07] <infinity> Unless you want to be his support monkey.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> I don't. :-)
[12:08] <infinity> It'd be disapointingly slow on a Mac that old anyway.
[12:09] <Mithrandir> he wanted to use the live cd too..
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[12:09] <Nafallo> Seveas: I should edit debian/rules to stop being silly, right? :-)
[12:09] <infinity> Mithrandir: Ouch.
[12:10] <infinity> Mithrandir: There are some serious suckers for punishment out there...
[12:10] <Seveas> Nafallo, you need to stop using php to stop being silly ;)
[12:10] <Mithrandir> infinity: I don't think he knows how bad it'd be
[12:10] <pitti> Nafallo: pong
[12:10] <Nafallo> pitti: may I take "heh" as edit debian/rules to stop being silly? :-)
[12:10] <infinity> Mithrandir: I have a general idea.  Nubus PMacs only came in two varieties "slow", and "really slow".
[12:11] <Mithrandir> heh
[12:12] <Nafallo> in that case I reapply all the patches and stuff and send a new diff ~16:00 CET.
[12:12] <pitti> Nafallo: oh, if it works, fine for me :)
[12:13] <Nafallo> pitti: which is fine? the enormous debdiff with UTF-8 or the small one with edited debian/rules? :-)
[12:13] <pitti> Nafallo: no idea about the big one, but the rules file looked fine to me
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[12:14] <Nafallo> pitti: check security-review for the big diff and add your opinion please? :-) I really, REALLY have to run now :-P.
[12:14] <pitti> oh, ok
[12:15] <Nafallo> thanks and bye ;-)
[12:19] <csj> hello, If I want to make a Ubuntu LiveCD from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/livecd-base/current/ i386.cloop, I extracted it and chroot into install xorg, gnome,etc, but failed cause lack of /dev/input/mice, what package should I install to autodetect my mouse or some method to solve this problem ?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> csj: X will be reconfigured anyway on boot
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[12:21] <csj> Mithrandir, is some package to do this work? because I read /etc/X11/xorg.conf , It is correct, but I dont have /dev/input/mice  :(
[12:21] <csj> although I installed 'discover' but still failed start X
[12:22] <Mithrandir> csj: casper is currently broken a bit, I'm going to fix that today.
[12:23] <csj> Mithrandir, ok, I'll try again later, thanks a lot :)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> csj: it should be ok tomorrow, so if you don't mind waiting, that's the easiest way to get it fixed.
[12:24] <Mithrandir> csj: if you need it more urgently, build a casper package from http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/casper/trunk and install that, then use the /boot/initrd-2.6.15-11-386 as the initrd for the cd.
[12:25] <csj> Mithrandir, ok, I will try it today, and see if it works, thanks :D
[12:25] <seb128> Nafallo_away: 
[12:25] <seb128> <gicmo> gicmo@picco cache/apt/archives % /usr/bin/nm-applet
[12:25] <seb128> <gicmo> ** (nm-applet:15409): WARNING **: Icon nm-stage01-connecting01 missing: Icon 'nm-stage01-connecting01' not present in theme
[12:25] <seb128> <gicmo> (nm-applet:15409): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
[12:25] <seb128> Nafallo_away: idea on that?
[12:32] <seb128> Nafallo_away: it was a gtk cache not updated...
[12:33] <janimo> seb128, is shutdown/PM still being done through gdm?
[12:33] <pitti> infinity: ouch, mysql 5.0 built 4.1 server/client, too? that sounds hackish...
[12:33] <lifeless> yewwww
[12:34] <janimo> ogra, how easy would it be to have xscreensaver unlock screen look like in breezy (passwd field mostly)
[12:34] <janimo> now i't ugly ******
[12:35] <seb128> janimo: we switched to gnome-screensaver so we dropped the Ubuntu specific hack for xscreensaver
[12:35] <seb128> janimo: yep, action are made by gdmflexiserver
[12:35] <infinity> pitti: s/hackish/wrong/ .. I stopped it on the buildd before it could produce the wvil binaries in question.
[12:36] <segfault> will xscreensaver still be the default of dapper?
[12:36] <janimo> seb128, but is power handling supposed to be taken over by some power-daemon through dbus at some point in dapper?
[12:36] <janimo> segfault, no see what seb said
[12:36] <janimo> but it will be used for xfce
[12:36] <seb128> janimo: gnome-power-management, why?
[12:37] <janimo> seb128, I thought mjg59 was working on such a thing
[12:37] <janimo> maybe I misunderstood
[12:37] <segfault> nice
[12:37] <janimo> having it though gdm is a bit of a hack
[12:38] <seb128> janimo: still gnome-power-management
[12:38] <seb128> janimo: why?
[12:38] <janimo> it's dispplay manager not a power manager :)
[12:39] <janimo> it's the wrong place to have such code
[12:39] <seb128> ?
[12:39] <janimo> mjg59, around?
[12:40] <seb128> janimo: it has a daemon and some frontend
[12:40] <janimo> yes, and such a dedicated power daemon could replace it
[12:40] <janimo> so powering down the machine would not depend on having gdm running
[12:40] <janimo> common for gnome/kde/xfce /console
[12:40] <seb128> janimo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagementConfiguration
[12:41] <janimo> thanks, I'll have a look
[12:41] <seb128> janimo: again, that's gnome-power-manager
[12:41] <janimo> oh, then why does gdm come into it?
[12:41] <seb128> janimo: why don't you look on the stuff instead of saying the same thing again and again?
[12:41] <seb128> janimo: because atm we use gdm and not gnome-power-manager ...
[12:41] <janimo> finally.that's my question then
[12:41] <seb128> ?
[12:42] <janimo> rephrase: are you switching to g-p-m in dapper?
[12:42] <janimo> instead of patching gdm to do pm
[12:45] <seb128> I think that's the plan
[12:45] <seb128> but Depends on how gnome-power-manager comes, if it's good enough, etc
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[12:49] <pitti> Seveas: I added the recent USNs, so your links should work again :)
[12:49] <Seveas> pitti, muchos gracias
[12:51] <Seveas> pitti, wouldn't it be nice to offer the rss feed from ubuntu.com? It's used quite a lot according to my logs :)
[12:51] <pitti> Seveas: sure
[12:52] <Seveas> shall I send you the script or do you prefer to link to the existing feed?
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[12:53] <pitti> Seveas: I have no idea about RSS; maybe we can just use your feed for now?
[12:54] <pitti> Seveas: I ask our web page guru
[12:54] <Seveas> pitti, k, I have no problems with either option :)
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[12:55] <Seveas> the script is simply subscribed to the security mailing list and parses all incoming messages
[12:55] <Treenaks> Seveas: does it do gpg verification yet? *hides*
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[12:56] <pitti> Seveas: what's the url?
[12:56] <Seveas> pitti, ubuntulinux.nl/files/usn.xml
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[12:57] <Seveas> Treenaks, find me a python gpg module that actually *works*, then it will
[12:57] <Kinnison> Seveas: well, pyme works
[12:57] <Treenaks> Seveas: open some pipes, invoke gpg, read pipes
[12:57] <Kinnison> Seveas: it's just ugly as sin
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[12:57] <tseng> Seveas: there actually is a USN feed on the site
[12:58] <tseng> Seveas: but its really hard to find
[12:58] <Seveas> Treenaks, that won't cooperate with the python mail lib
[12:58] <Treenaks> Seveas: it accepts plain text strings! of course it cooperates
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[12:58] <pitti> Seveas, meet hno73, our webmaster
[12:58] <Seveas> hi hno73 :)
[12:59] <hno73> Seveas: hi :)
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[12:59] <sobersabre> hi... as promised I've installed breezy on my amd64 machine... and gdb does suddenly work.
[12:59] <sobersabre> :)
[12:59] <Seveas> tseng, care to give a clue to the location?
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[12:59] <tseng> Seveas: http://planet.ubuntu.com/news/ is subscribed to it
[12:59] <tseng> Seveas: so jdub could remind us
[12:59] <sobersabre> I have a q. is there a breezy libjavahl package for amd64 ?
[01:00] <tseng> or, it was
[01:00] <sobersabre> (I tried to build it myself, but something is wrong with it... )
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[01:01] <hno73> Seveas: you were wondering about RSS feeds from the new website?
[01:02] <hno73> niemeyer has actually written an RSS macro for moin: http://labix.org/irss that I'd like to try
[01:03] <mdke> hno73, yo
[01:03] <Seveas> hno73, I have an rss feed of the USN's which was broken due to the site reorganization, that's fixed but I asked Pitti if it would be nice to offer this thing from ubuntu.com
[01:03] <mdke> hno73, do you have access to add macros to the wiki?
[01:03] <Seveas> it's used by quite a few people :)
[01:03] <Seveas> hno73, btw, seen http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22176 yet? :)
[01:03] <hno73> mdke: happy new year!
[01:03] <mdke> hno73, same :)
[01:04] <hno73> mdke: not directly, but it can be arranged
[01:04] <hno73> Seveas: yes, thanks. I've fixed about half of them
[01:04] <pitti> Mithrandir, fabbione: Matt urged me to upload the sudo change soon ('give a pointer to sudo in /etc/profile until sudo is successfully executed the first time')
[01:05] <hno73> some are more tricky, and some I don't agree with :)
[01:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: wasn't this going to be discussed by the tech board?
[01:05] <pitti> Mithrandir, fabbione: would you like to discuss this in TB? or shall I just do it for now so that we can test it?
[01:05] <Seveas> hno73, that's all your call :)
[01:05] <fabbione> pitti: bah
[01:05] <fabbione> pitti: i would like to discuss it at the TB meeting
[01:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, we can do that of course, but TB is next week
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[01:05] <Seveas> hno73, but please make the tabs consistent and fix "Related Projects" :)
[01:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm not worried about the implementation, as I've said before.  I'm worried about the rest of it.
[01:06] <hno73> Seveas: like I think the new tabs are nicer, but they need to be pushed onto the other sites as well
[01:06] <pitti> Mithrandir, fabbione: hm, ok, I add it to the agenda now
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[01:06] <hno73> Related projects font was too weak right? see now
[01:06] <Seveas> hno73, they're too small
[01:07] <Seveas> fontsize +10% or maybe +20% and I'd agree :)
[01:07] <hno73> hm, can try
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[01:08] <pitti> BenC: ping
[01:08] <Seveas> related projects is more readable, but still "doesn't look right"
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[01:08] <Seveas> hno73, how about fount-weight: bold and border-bottom: solid 1px $color?
[01:09] <hno73> border bottom of what? the tabs?
[01:09] <Seveas> no, "related projects"
[01:10] <mdke> hno73, mailed you the macro
[01:11] <hno73> mdke: thanks
[01:11] <mdke> thank _you_
[01:11] <Seveas> tabs are cool now, maybe 1px/2px more whitespace below the text, the 'p' in developers is too low
[01:11] <hno73> Seveas: can you please email me a screenshot of what it looks like for you and one where it 'looks right'? ;)
[01:12] <Seveas> hno73, sure :)
[01:12] <hno73> henrik@ubuntu.com
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[01:18] <hno73> Seveas: btw, there is a limit to how much I want to play with the layout on the live site ;) Font size and colour are ok, but when you start playing with spacing in CSS things can break. The tab spacing is a bit fragile. Needs testing in multiple browsers, etc.
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[01:22] <mdke> infinity, any progress on the ubuntu-docs update for breezy?
[01:23] <janimo> mdke, what does it take to get a svn account for xubuntu docs?
[01:23] <dholbach> infinity: could you give back gnome-terminal, when you have the time?
[01:23] <dholbach> infinity: ...please... :-)
[01:23] <mdke> janimo, at the moment there are none. Afaik, it's just the docs from upstream
[01:24] <janimo> so there's not ubuntu docs repo? that'w what I thought so far
[01:25] <mdke> janimo, there is an ubuntu docs repo (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository) but we do not work on any xubuntu docs as yet, or ship any in dapper
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[01:29] <juliux> anyone who wants to make a ubuntu-dev talk at the linuxtag 2006 in wiesbaden/germany ?
=== martink tries not to make a comment wrt juliux' 2005 talk...
[01:32] <juliux> martink, no
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[01:32] <fabbione> juliux: you might want to ask doko/mvo/pitti/
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[01:33] <juliux> fabbione, yes i know, but i want ask all devs
[01:34] <fabbione> juliux: when is that?
[01:34] <mdke> janimo, were you thinking of including some xubuntu specific docs in dapper?
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[01:34] <mantiena> Hello all
[01:34] <juliux> fabbione, 3-5 mai
[01:35] <juliux> h 3-6 mai
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[01:35] <juliux> more information at http://www.linuxtag.org/2006/
[01:35] <fabbione> juliux: thanks for the offer, but i can't
[01:35] <juliux> fabbione, ok 
[01:35] <fabbione> it's while i promised myself to go back in .de :)
[01:36] <pitti> juliux: AFAIK that's the time of our next conference, so we can't
[01:36] <juliux> pitti, i think a week later
[01:37] <fabbione> ohj true
[01:37] <juliux> pitti, so you have time ;)
[01:37] <fabbione> there will be UbuntuSomeWhere
[01:37] <Treenaks> UbuntuUpYours ;)
[01:37] <juliux> fabbione, but i think i will be 2 weeks after dapper
[01:37] <fabbione> juliux: dapper is due to 20 apr
[01:37] <fabbione> + 2  will hit exactly that weekend
[01:38] <juliux> ok shit
[01:38] <pitti> juliux: no, www.linuxtag.org/2006 says it's 3-6 May, not a week later
[01:38] <ogra> juliux, i was invited
[01:38] <juliux> hi ogra 
[01:38] <juliux> ogra, has you send something to the cfp ?
[01:38] <fabbione> specially if we need to travel to <insert_here_remote_island_in_the_middle_of_no_where_and_far_from_any_civilizated_city>
[01:38] <ogra> i already told the guy we have an overlap in the dates
[01:39] <juliux> yes i know but i have to try it
[01:39] <ogra> no chance to get one of the core devs for it, except if our next conference is in wiesbaden ;)
[01:39] <juliux> and i could be that there is no overlap ;)
[01:40] <juliux> it doesnt must bee a core dev ;=
[01:40] <dholbach> juliux: ask the german motus in #ubuntu-motu :)
[01:41] <mantiena> Kamion, hi, do you have some time to talk about ubuntu-express ? I've got your email from bugzilla, I've fixed several ubuntu-express bugs, did few improvements, also translated to Lithuanian language and I wanna work together ;)
[01:41] <juliux> i want a dev no motu -D
[01:41] <juliux> :-D
=== dholbach tsssssssss
[01:42] <dholbach> juliux: and we do have 'core developers' (if you refer to the launchpad team), that are in #ubuntu-motu (and are from germany)
[01:42] <juliux> dholbach, i know
[01:42] <Kamion> mantiena: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/espresso/ubuntu/
[01:42] <juliux> dholbach, but the talk could also be in english so i ask here
[01:42] <Kamion> I don't want to take translations yet; too much stuff is changing
[01:43] <Kamion> and I'm essentially rewriting most of it, just using the Guadalinex code as a basis
[01:44] <mantiena> Kamion, hehe, I understand you ;) some parts of guadalinex work are really bad
[01:45] <Kamion> I don't particularly want to judge, but they had different goals; it is essential for our live installer to reuse code from the regular installer, otherwise we run into serious maintenance trouble further down the line
[01:45] <Kamion> I'm currently working on making espresso reuse partman
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[01:48] <mantiena> Kamion, I don't think, that they had different goals, on guadalinex ubuntu-express worked some students, etc. and from my conversations to them I understod, that integrating debconf with ubuntu-express was too hard for some of them ...
[01:48] <mantiena> it's sad to tell, but for me too :-/
[01:49] <Kamion> it's certainly not easy; I don't blame them for having trouble with it
[01:49] <Kamion> but it's worthwhile
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[01:50] <Seveas> hno73, <aol>You've got mail :)</aol>
[01:50] <mantiena> Kamion, could you tell me what is current status of your ubuntu-express code ? is installer working ? At least partially ?
[01:51] <Seveas> Kamion, 'espresso' is named after the beverage you need a lot while writing it i guess :)
[01:52] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync texinfo from sid? ok, to override.
[01:53] <Kamion> mantiena: it starts up and the user/password/hostname screen works, but beyond that it's pretty broken. I've agreed with mdz that my target is to get something basically working by the time of the distro team sprint in London at the end of this month.
[01:53] <Kamion> Seveas: pretty much, yeah ...
[01:54] <fabbione> elmo: could you please fix network-console override? according to w-b it's a pkg main, but that's not true.. source & bin are in universe. thanks
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[01:56] <mantiena> Kamion, hehe, it seems your target is simmilar to me - I need working installer to the end of this month ;)
[01:57] <mantiena> Kamion, so, I want and can help with Ubuntu-express. I know guadalinex code, most bugs, etc. I could code/fix some simple parts
[01:57] <ogra_ibook> any reson why there are no edubuntu liveCds since friday ?
[01:58] <infinity> dholbach: Done.
[01:58] <infinity> mdke: Can you bug me incessantly about it tomorrow?
[01:58] <dholbach> infinity: merci beaucoup
[01:59] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: edubuntu-desktop isn't installable?
[01:59] <Kamion> mantiena: my problem is that my targets are sufficiently tight that I don't have time to bring anyone else up to speed on the code or rely on contributions from other people right now; I hope for that to change once espresso's looking healthier
[01:59] <ogra_ibook> it is on the install CD according to the daily report file
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[01:59] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: I presume you know about http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html ?
[01:59] <Kamion> mantiena: you're welcome to check it out of bzr at the URL above and poke about with it; you'll need to be running very current dapper
[02:00] <Kamion> but I won't have any time to support you for the next month or so, I'm afraid :(
[02:00] <Kamion> I hadn't been planning to solicit contributions until February
[02:00] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, yes, but that report is from today, yesterday must have been fine according to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html
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[02:01] <Kamion> please don't rely on the cdimage report to try to figure out why live CDs aren't building
[02:01] <Kamion> it's obviously as of a specific point in time rather than current, and it only covers the packages on the install CD which isn't always sufficient for live CD builds anyway
[02:01] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: the dapper_probs has listed edubuntu-desktop as being broken for at least half a week
[02:01] <ogra_ibook> i was relying on edubuntu-desktop installability ...
[02:02] <Kamion> also sometimes the install CD can just fluke it due to weirdness
[02:02] <ogra_ibook> ok
[02:02] <Kamion> so use dapper_probs.html instead please
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[02:03] <ogra_ibook> yup, will do
[02:03] <stockholm> is mdz around when awake?
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[02:03] <Mithrandir> stockholm: usually
=== ogra_ibook waves back to stockholm 
[02:04] <stockholm> Mithrandir: so he should be on in about 4h?
[02:04] <Mithrandir> stockholm: yes
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> likely
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[02:07] <ogra_ibook> ybin: Blessing /dev/hda2 with Holy Penguin Pee... ????
[02:07] <mdke> infinity, i'll try
[02:07] <ogra_ibook> *giggle*
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[02:13] <Seveas> ogra, wtf?
[02:14] <Treenaks> Seveas: that's yaboot :)
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[02:20] <janimo> mdke, sorry was away
[02:20] <janimo> yes I'd like to have xubuntu docs in dapper
[02:20] <janimo> of course not as part of the ubuntu-docs package but I thought if you have collaboration infrastructure set up
[02:20] <janimo> the xu documenters could use it too
[02:21] <mdke> janimo, yes of course, we were not aware that they existed
[02:22] <mdke> janimo, perhaps they could post to the ubuntu-doc mailing list?
[02:22] <janimo> 'they' indeed do not exist :)
[02:23] <mdke> oh
[02:23] <janimo> I was hoping if a more formal procedure is provided 'they' would come out of the woods
[02:23] <janimo> there were people ocasionally sending me bits of doc
[02:23] <janimo> or showing interest in helping
[02:23] <janimo> so they definitely are willing just misguided (as am I in this area)
[02:23] <mdke> janimo, the first thing that needs to be sorted out is the relationship with the upstream docs, are there enough changes to xfce in Ubuntu to warrant separate documentation?
[02:24] <janimo> but I'll announce on xubuntu-devel and pick them up and direct them to you r list
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[02:24] <janimo> not really many changes
[02:24] <janimo> but we'll probably have to describe the deafult config (panel/menu)
[02:24] <mdke> ok
[02:24] <janimo> and the selction of apps since xfce is just the desktop not as many blessed apps as gnome
[02:25] <janimo> it is mostly so they have a common repo they can commit to
[02:25] <janimo> instead of sensing me diffs of html docs ;)
[02:25] <mdke> i think we should be careful about making documents which overlap with the upsream ones tho
[02:25] <mdke> the xfce docs are already quite good, i think
[02:25] <janimo> they are indeed
[02:25] <janimo> we'll just need to doc the additional changes we make
[02:26] <janimo> in separate docs
[02:26] <mdke> okay
[02:26] <janimo> right now we have the ff start page
[02:26] <janimo> maybe that would do for dapper too, but still it needs people working on it concurrently
[02:26] <janimo> and I can package it from time to time
[02:27] <mdke> janimo, ubuntu-doc won't work on the firefox start page for dapper, it will be replaced by start.ubuntu.com afaik
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[02:27] <mdke> not sure how that will work for derivatives
[02:28] <janimo> mdke, so instead of local page people will go to the net on first start?
[02:28] <mdke> yeah
[02:28] <mdke> jdub can tell you more
[02:28] <doko_> mvo: isdn ping
[02:28] <mdke> the spec is at wiki:BrowserDefaults
[02:28] <janimo> mdke, thanks.
[02:29] <mdke> np
[02:29] <BenC> pitti: pong
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[02:41] <zakame> hi stockh0lm :)
[02:41] <zakame> hello devs :)
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[02:43] <lguerra> ogra: PING
[02:43] <ogra_ibook> lguerra, pong
[02:44] <lguerra> ogra, how i report any error in launchpad http server ?
[02:44] <fabbione> lguerra: launcpad is having an upgrade
[02:44] <fabbione> relax :)
[02:44] <lguerra> ohhh
[02:44] <lguerra> tks
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> file a bug in malone 
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> ah
=== ogra_ibook didnt know
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[02:51] <janimo> ogra_ibook, how hard would it be to get xss unlock screen dialog back to what it was in breezy?
[02:51] <janimo> now it's ugly :)
[02:52] <tseng> install gnome-screensaver
[02:52] <ogra_ibook> janimo, we drop xss
[02:53] <janimo> guys, xubuntu
[02:53] <ogra_ibook> janimo, the patch is in breezy as dpatch, i guess it would be minimal work to adjust it for the current package, so if its important for you to have xss instead of gss it should be easy ...
[02:53] <janimo> I assume gss brings in all gnome deps,otherwise I'd be happy to go with it
[02:53] <tseng> apt-cache depends
[02:54] <ogra_ibook> but note that you'll loose power management capabilitys with xss ... gss will be much better integrated with the power manager
[02:54] <allee> pitti: libghoto2-2.  Can you look at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119769 ?   I know nothing about hal config yet, but in case your are busy I can try to compare with SuSE to fiddle out what's wrong.
[02:54] <janimo> ogra_ibook, yeah too bad for pm :(
[02:56] <doko> Diziet: firefox-dev/mozilla-dev ping ...
[02:59] <janimo> ogra, is power-manager deprecated? uses old dbus does not install
[02:59] <ogra_ibook> use gnome-power-manager
[03:00] <janimo> that has both the back and the frontend?
[03:00] <ogra_ibook> power-manager will either disappear or being rewritten by mjg59 as dbus backend ... not sure which path he goes 
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[03:05] <pitti> hi allee, I'm back from lunch
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[03:06] <allee> pitti: np 
[03:07] <allee> pitti: the gphoto problem are not a bug in KDE mediamanager but in the hal config not generated by libgphoto
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[03:10] <pitti> allee: hmm, works fine for me
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[03:11] <pitti> Hi BenC
[03:11] <allee> pitti: uh, when you plugin a gphoto2 supported camera the camera config settings returned by hal are correct?
[03:11] <pitti> allee: can you reproduce the problem?
[03:11] <pitti> allee: yes, I get 'camera.access_method = 'ptp' and 'info.category = 'camera' 
[03:12] <allee> pitti: yes. 'cause I wrote the bug report ;)
[03:12] <pitti> allee: and info.capabilities = {'camera'}
[03:12] <pitti> allee: can I debug this with you right now?
[03:12] <pitti> I'll /msg you
[03:12] <allee> 'k
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[03:13] <kikidonk> dholbach: ping
[03:13] <Diziet> doko: Hello.
[03:13] <dholbach> kikidonk: pong
[03:15] <kikidonk> dholbach: hey, i have a problem with dapper, eclipse seems broken
[03:15] <kikidonk> dholbach: eclipse-jdt and eclipse-jdt-common are dependeing on each other
[03:15] <dholbach> kikidonk: I never touched eclipse, I have no idea :-/
[03:15] <kikidonk> seb told me you were the 'responsible' :P
[03:15] <dholbach> kikidonk: he did?
[03:16] <dholbach> seb128: ^^ :)
[03:16] <kikidonk> who is in care of java packages ? 
[03:16] <dholbach> doko worked on eclipse every now and then
[03:16] <doko> Diziet: some things: are some plugins built without -fPIC on amd64? i.e. xpcom and gtkmozplugin? 
[03:17] <mjr> hmh, I don't think so:s without -fPIC are supported on amd64? (I might be wrong, but I've gotten that impression)
[03:17] <seb128> kikidonk, dholbach: I said I will ping dholbach if he knows who is working on that, etc
[03:17] <doko> Diziet: could you prepare an installable mozilla-dev package?
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[03:17] <dholbach> :)
[03:17] <kikidonk> hehe
[03:17] <seb128> kikidonk, dholbach: doko did an eclipse upload since
[03:18] <seb128> but it didn't build yet
[03:18] <kikidonk> aha
[03:18] <seb128> I assumed he's working on it so didn't bother dholbach
[03:18] <seb128>  eclipse (3.1.1-8ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
[03:18] <seb128>  .
[03:18] <seb128>    * Synchronise with Debian unstable.
[03:18] <kikidonk> ah ok :)
[03:18] <seb128> ...
[03:18] <mjr> (come to think of it, I got that impression while trying to link non-fPIC code into a .so)
[03:18] <kikidonk> perfect
[03:18] <mjr> didn't delve further into it to find out if some magic would allow that still
[03:20] <Diziet> doko: Err, I have no idea about -fPIC or not on amd64 I'm afraid.  I could check it out but not for a few days because I want to do something other than firefox maintenance.
[03:20] <Diziet> And, um, mozilla-dev ?
[03:20] <Diziet> Wouldn't that be part of mozilla ?
[03:21] <Mithrandir> Diziet: all shared libs should be built with -fPIC, both on i386 and others
[03:21] <Diziet> mithrandir: Certainly.
[03:21] <Diziet> I didn't change the way they were built though.
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[03:22] <Diziet> I'm prepared to believe that it's wrong.  If it's wrong then please do file a bug, P1, and I'll deal with it in my next batch.
[03:22] <doko> Diziet: mozilla-dev has a versioned dep on the exactly same version, which is now broken, because libnspr-dev and libnss-dev are built from the firefox sources
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[03:23] <Diziet> Why use mozilla-dev at all ?
[03:23] <Diziet> For that matter, why this versioned dep ?  Why a dep at all ?
[03:23] <doko> Diziet: because eclipse doesn't work with firefox yet
[03:24] <Diziet> What's eclipse ?
[03:24] <ogra_ibook> nvu (universe) neither
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[03:24] <doko> Diziet: yes, that's true
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[03:25] <Diziet> `doesn't work' ?
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[03:25] <Diziet> Or you mean upstream eclipse is incompatible with the embeddable firefox ?
[03:26] <Diziet> The point of having nspr and nss in firefox was to make firefox-dev 
[03:26] <Diziet> Err, I mean,  to make mozilla not need to be in main.
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[03:29] <doko> Diziet: apparently firefox 1.5 did introduce an incompatibility, which didn't exist with 1.0.x
[03:30] <Diziet> Nice.  And it's not fixed upstream yet ?  So presumably it's nontrivial.
[03:30] <Diziet> I still don't understand why mozilla-dev has a dependency on firefox at all.
[03:30] <mantiena> doko, hi
[03:31] <seth> yeah, the eclipse thing has been bugging me too :) glad to know it's been noticed, though
[03:31] <Diziet> Surely it should provide its own versions of everything, if it's being an alternative to ff.
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[03:31] <mantiena> Kamion, still online ?
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[03:32] <doko> Diziet: will you fix the mozilla-dev dependency? at least you did brake when you started to build libnspr-dev and libnss-dev from firefox
[03:34] <Kamion> mantiena: yes, but working
[03:34] <Diziet> The whole point of this nss/nspr thing was to be able to move mozilla to universe.  Why is it still in main ?  And, I did this at the request of Ubuntu mozilla people.
[03:35] <Kamion> packages are only promoted/demoted to main/universe semi-automatically
[03:36] <Kamion> mozilla is still in main because stuff still depends/build-depends on it
[03:36] <Diziet> Ah.  I thought the seed system would do that bit ?
[03:36] <Kamion> it tells us what to do, but the actual moving is done by ftpmaster by hand to provide a sanity check
[03:36] <Diziet> Right.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement doesn't seem to say where the germinate log goes.
[03:37] <Kamion> DeveloperResources has a link to it
[03:37] <Kamion> I'll add it to SeedManagement too, thanks
[03:37] <Diziet> The requested URL /~cjwatson/germinate-dapper-output/ was not found on this server.
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[03:38] <Diziet> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/dapper/  now it seems
[03:39] <Kamion> yeah, I just independently fixed the link on DeveloperResources
[03:39] <Kamion> rdepends/mozilla/ is probably the place to start looking in there
[03:40] <mantiena> Kamion, just one question: Why you told me, that I need very current dapper to work on Ubuntu-express?
[03:41] <Kamion> mantiena: because it requires new features in debconf and new packages produced by bits of the installer
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[03:42] <Diziet> Hrm.  Mainly, it seems to be mozilla-psm.
[03:42] <Diziet> I have no idea why mozilla-psm is in the seed.
[03:43] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/dapper/rdepends/mozilla/mozilla-dev indicates two extant build-dependencies on mozilla-dev
[03:44] <pitti> Kamion: librsvg2 is scheduled to be built against ffox-dev by seb128's next update
[03:44] <Kamion> mozilla-psm needed to be there while we supported mozilla, but no longer does; I've removed it
[03:44] <pitti> Kamion: and for enigmail it's a matter of splitting the package for mozilla and tbird
[03:45] <Kamion> we need to drop mozilla-locale-* too
[03:45] <mantiena> Kamion, thanks for explanations
[03:45] <Diziet> Indeed.
[03:45] <Diziet> Yes, thanks, Kamion.
[03:45] <Kamion> ok, mozilla-locale-* dropped too
[03:46] <Diziet> enigmail for mozilla needs to be built against mozilla-dev ?  That's tiresome.
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[03:50] <SteveA> mjg59: hello
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[03:51] <pitti> Diziet: apparently, yes; but we can either just drop enigmail for moz completely, or split the package
[03:53] <mantiena> Could anyone tell me why ubuntu-desktop depends on various python-xxx packages, for example on python-mysqldb, python-dictclient, etc ? There are no other packages, depending on these python packages in standard ubuntu-desktop installation... Are such python-xxx packages really needed to be in ubuntu-desktop ?
[03:53] <pitti> \sh: ping
[03:54] <\sh> pong...wine..i know
[03:54] <pitti> \sh: heh, how could you know? :)
[03:54] <Kamion> mantiena: explicit request from Mark
[03:54] <\sh> pitti: well..I'm good and working on it...
[03:54] <pitti> \sh: yay, thanks
[03:54] <pitti> \sh: do you have the patch?
[03:54] <\sh> pitti: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.wine.patches/20976
[03:55] <pitti> \sh: exactly
[03:55] <Kamion> mantiena: AIUI, he wants to pitch Python as a desktop development language for Ubuntu in much the same way as Visual Basic is for Windows
=== pitti giggles that wine is so compatible to even run windows' security exploits
[03:55] <SteveA> mantiena: iirc, the idea is that someone can install ubuntu, and then get cracking writing useful python thinggies
[03:55] <Nafallo> pitti, smurf, Seveas: the debdiff looks better now, doesn't it? :-)
[03:55] <Kamion> so it makes a certain amount of sense to flesh out the desktop seed with useful Python packages; also the ones that are there aren't particularly big anyway ...
[03:56] <Kamion> (we got rid of the biggest ones last time we hit serious CD space pressure)
[03:56] <Seveas> Nafallo, it's still icky
[03:56] <\sh> pitti: which distros? from warty on, or hoary breezy dapper?
[03:56] <Nafallo> Seveas: where?
[03:56] <Seveas> Nafallo, the mini html tutorial
[03:56] <Seveas> that simply is not a security patch
[03:56] <pitti> Nafallo: no idea, I see your second mail twice, but I don't see a new patch
=== pitti syncs mail again
[03:57] <Seveas> and there is new functionality (html enabled)
[03:57] <Nafallo> pitti: there is a third now that I'm home :-)
[03:57] <pitti> \sh: whatever you want; breezy would be nice, earlier universe packages are a lost cause anyway
[03:57] <Seveas> pitti, 15:48
[03:57] <pitti> Nafallo: ah, you started a new thread
[03:58] <\sh> pitti: ok...will bring a new version including patch to dapper (0.9.5) then breezy and eventually hoary
[03:58] <Nafallo> sorry for the double mail, I hate outlook :-P
[03:58] <pitti> Nafallo: hmm, but *removing* stuff from debian/rules is not really appreciated either
[03:58] <pitti> Nafallo: it's true that we don't care for woody compatiblity in breezy, but if it's there, it shouldn't be touched
[03:58] <pitti> \sh: you rock, thanks
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[03:59] <mjg59> SteveA: Hi
[03:59] <Nafallo> pitti: you did see the debdiff before? :-) I'll go with what you say anyway. if it's more than "heh" this time ;-).
[03:59] <doko> mvo: isdn ping
[03:59] <mvo> doko: pong
[03:59] <pitti> Nafallo: why did you remove all the security checks?
[04:00] <pitti> Nafallo: the patch almost looks like being applied backwards
[04:00] <\sh> pitti: do you have the cve number for that bug?
[04:00] <pitti> \sh: CVE-2005-4560
[04:00] <\sh> pitti: thx :)
[04:01] <Nafallo> pitti: I compared to upstream patches and it looks the same.
[04:01] <pitti> odd
[04:01] <Seveas> Nafallo, the security checks are moved, not removed
[04:01] <pitti> -  return check_url($uri);
[04:01] <pitti> +  return $uri;
[04:01] <Seveas> pitti*
[04:01] <pitti> Seveas: (that's fine, I highlight on 'security', too :) )
[04:01] <Seveas> the uri is checked later with the xss function
[04:01] <pitti> ok, I see
[04:02] <Seveas> but the patch adds all kinds of html posting functionality
[04:02] <SteveA> mjg59: my laptop running breezy went a bit insane on unsuspending, like it did a while ago at UBZ.   what i think happened is i told it to suspend by pressing the standby button.  it didn't, so i told it again.  then it did.  on awaking later, it would send itself to sleep about 1 min later.
[04:02] <Seveas> which is just icky in a security patch
[04:02] <SteveA> the logs indicate a bunch of ACPI events being sent, with no obvious cause, just before the unrequested sleep
[04:02] <mjg59> SteveA: Uhm. That should have nothing to do with the kernel.
[04:02] <mjg59> SteveA: Oh, sorry, misread seveas as you
[04:02] <SteveA> i fixed it by commenting out lines in the /etc/acpi/ scripts
[04:03] <mjg59> SteveA: Hm. Odd.
[04:03] <Nafallo> I hate php :-P
[04:03] <SteveA> and waiting a while, and then uncommenting them
[04:03] <SteveA> are the logs any use to you?
[04:03] <pitti> Nafallo: phew, does that patch ever end? it's huuuuge
[04:03] <Seveas> Nafallo, so do I :)
[04:03] <Nafallo> pitti: hehe, three upstream patches so... ;-)
[04:03] <pitti> Nafallo: could you test the package thorougly? did you see any apparent regressions?
[04:04] <pitti> Nafallo: I wouldn't accept this patch for main, but if you feel confident about it, it's upstream for a while now without any regressions, fine for me
[04:04] <Nafallo> I haven't been able to yet. was at "work-like place" without internet ;-)
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[04:07] <doko> mantiena: pong
[04:07] <Nafallo> Seveas: the "HTML tutorial" being that stuff in filter.module? :-)
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[04:08] <Tm_T> where should I file a bug/wish about installer?
[04:08] <Seveas> yes
[04:08] <Seveas> Tm_T, bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[04:08] <Tm_T> Seveas: ah, thanks
[04:09] <mantiena> doko, I have one question about OOo 2.0.1 for ubuntu breezy. There are packages at people.ubuntu.com/~doko/. Do you plan move these packages to breezy-updates ?
[04:09] <doko> mantiena: not yet decided. looks like there are regressions in -base
[04:09] <doko> mantiena: do you want to look at it?
[04:10] <mantiena> Kamion, wouldn't be better to create ubuntu-desktop-python metapackage for various python-xxx and make ubuntu-desktop depend on this package?
[04:10] <mantiena> doko, I'm installing OOo 2.0.1 in my system, based on ubuntu breezy now ;) Do you know bug numbers of these regressions ?
[04:10] <Kamion> mantiena: I don't see that that would make any significant difference to users, and it would be more work
[04:11] <Nafallo> Seveas: hmm, I don't like upstreams patches anymore ;-)
[04:11] <doko> mantiena: just search for openoffice ...
[04:11] <doko> mantiena: in bugzilla
[04:11] <mantiena> doko, in bugzilla.ubuntu.com ?
[04:12] <mantiena> Kamion, there is difference for users and developers, because now there is unclear which packages are really needed for desktop user and which are only for developing with python
[04:13] <zakame> mantiena: yep
[04:13] <Kamion> mantiena: for developers, that's documented in the seeds
[04:14] <doko> mantiena: yes
[04:15] <mantiena> doko, ok, thanks, I will look at this tomorrow
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[04:17] <doko> Kamion: could you shed som light on the non-existance of unrar, built from the unrar-nonfree source in dapper?
=== Nafallo starts listening to doko and Kamion ;-)
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[04:20] <Tm_T> Mithrandir: filed, I think I'm too poethic mood to file bugreports though...
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[04:45] <Kamion> Rejected: file 'unrar_3.5.2-0.1_i386.deb' has unknown component 'non-free'.
[04:45] <Kamion> doko: ^--
[04:46] <Kamion> dunno why it's not overridden to multiverse; you'd have to ask elmo
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[05:01] <jsgotangco> Kamion, OT do you know Hande?
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[05:02] <Kamion> jsgotangco: no
[05:02] <jsgotangco> ok tnx
[05:03] <Kamion> well apart from knowing that she works for Canonical
[05:03] <jsgotangco> ah ok so Hande is a she
[05:03] <jsgotangco> that's what i was about to ask
[05:03] <jsgotangco> thanks =)
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[05:03] <Kamion> I had to look it up; I had been about to say "he/she/er-how-embarrassing"
[05:08] <pitti> hunger: can you please forward the libpam_mount patches to Debian?
[05:08] <pitti> hunger: I'll apply them now, but for the future Debian should fix them as well
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[05:11] <lotusleaf> Will Dapper resolve the issue of some programs not showing up in menus but only in the add-on 'Debian' menu?
[05:11] <\sh> doko: ping
[05:12] <\sh> doko: I have a problem with the last fontforge upload to breezy from 2005-09-21...I can't compile wine anymore...because it produces a nice fontforge problem
[05:12] <\sh> doko: before this upload of fontforge wine was build without any problems :)
[05:13] <\sh> well..actually it was a sync
[05:13] <Keybuk> "Excuse me, you sent me an e-mail to say my credit card was declined; now you've just sent me an e-mail to say my order has been dispatched.  Err?"
[05:13] <Keybuk> "Oh yes sir, that always happens."
[05:13] <Keybuk> *blink*
[05:14] <mdke> lotusleaf, no. even more applications will not show up in menus for dapper
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[05:15] <lotusleaf> mdke, well, at least that menu is available. :-)
[05:15] <mdke> lotusleaf, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited if you'd like to read and comment on the proposals
[05:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: Minor downside with madwifi-ng - it needs userspace crack to actually give you a usable interface
[05:15] <lotusleaf> mdke, great, thanks! :)
[05:16] <Keybuk> mjg59: oh?
[05:16] <Keybuk> does it not work with iw* ?
[05:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: It gives you something that sends raw packets, then you need to wlanconfig it to give you an actual useful interface (which then speaks iw*)
[05:16] <Keybuk> kooky
[05:16] <mjg59> But that can probably be wedged into post-modprobe for the common case
[05:16] <Keybuk> can you make multiple interfaces
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[05:16] <Keybuk> yeah, easy enough in a udev rule
[05:16] <mjg59> Yeah
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[05:19] <Keybuk> reminds me that I need to turn those ugly alsa modprobe install hacks into udev rules
[05:22] <Keybuk> err @ mom
[05:22] <Keybuk> "new changes have occurred" ... no they haven't
[05:22] <Keybuk> YOU'RE HALLUCINATING
=== desrt blinks
[05:23] <Keybuk> wonder if that's just because new changes in Ubuntu have occurred
=== Keybuk sends mom off to rehab
[05:24] <elmo> jsgotangco(/kamion): FYI, Hande is sitting 3 feet away from me, your questions caused quite some amusement in the office ;-)
[05:24] <doko> \sh: why does wine need fontforge at all at build time?
[05:24] <elmo> jsgotangco: and for future ref '<name> gender name' in google is often helpful ;-P
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[05:25] <jsgotangco> elmo, heh thanks
=== desrt blinks a bit more
[05:26] <\sh> doko: because of some fonts faces ...which are turned magically via fontforge into something I don't have a clue about...but it is font related
[05:26] <Kamion> mostly if I don't know the gender of a name I just don't care until I suddenly have to use a pronoun and then my brain stops for a bit. :)
[05:26] <desrt> Keybuk; wtf?
[05:27] <mdz> stockholm: ?
[05:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: "them"
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[05:28] <siretart> sb goto 4:34
[05:28] <siretart> argl, sory
[05:28] <\sh> doko: but it's annoying to have a ftbfs in a stable archive ;)
[05:28] <stockholm> mdz: did you get the mail about uml?
[05:29] <stockholm> mdz: there is a guy that wants to adopt it
[05:29] <Keybuk> *+
[05:29] <stockholm> mdz: he was recommened to me from peopel on #uml
[05:30] <mjg59> Has asf been disabled in our gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg?
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[05:31] <hunger> pitti: Thanks for looking into the mount.crypt issues I had!
[05:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: my internal grammar pedant sometimes rebels
[05:31] <pitti> hunger: you're welcome, thanks for the fixes
[05:32] <pitti> hi mdz
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[05:39] <mdz> stockholm: I get mail about someone adopting UML every month or so; I always tell them to go ahead, but so far no one has actually uploaded anything
[05:39] <mdz> pitti: good morning
[05:39] <mdz> stockholm: but what does this have to do with ubuntu?
[05:42] <desrt> so.... question of questions
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[05:42] <desrt> will dapper have mp3 support on the cd?
[05:43] <doko> \sh: AFAIK fontforge was just updated to a new major version, which was needed for some fonts (dejavu), which we did move to main 
[05:43] <elmo> desrt: no
[05:43] <desrt> elmo; what is preventing it from happening?
[05:43] <elmo> desrt: patents
[05:43] <desrt> elmo; are you aware of the fluendo announcement?
[05:43] <elmo> desrt: yes
[05:44] <dman13> I'm looking for someone with write access on ubuntulinux.org to report an error to.  Anyone want it?
[05:44] <wasabi_> File a bug.
[05:44] <Keybuk> elmo: doesn't the fluendo binary mean it could go in restricted
[05:44] <Keybuk> that has a patent licence
[05:44] <dman13> It's not that big of an error (just a copy-and-paste item)
[05:44] <dman13> :-)
[05:44] <elmo> Keybuk: that falls well outside of the scope of restricted
[05:45] <desrt> Keybuk; ubuntu can even sign a contract with fluendo and gain the ability to compile their own patent-compliant binaries
[05:45] <wasabi_> Well nobody is going to remember it any other way.
[05:45] <dman13> true, unless they have write access and spend ~20 seconds fixing it now
[05:45] <dman13> I was hoping to make the process shorter by finding the right person :-)
[05:46] <wasabi_> File a bug, the right person will find it.
[05:46] <desrt> i mean... it's great to encourage users to use vorbis... but when you install your brand new dapper system and it can't even play an mp3 file it sort of leaves a sour taste
[05:47] <desrt> if given the ability to include mp3 support on the main cd... it seems like something to do
[05:47] <mjr> desrt, that, as they say, is too bad, and a legilative problem
[05:47] <lotusleaf> ogg > mp3
[05:47] <desrt> mjr; no.  it's really not.
[05:47] <desrt> lotusleaf; i know.  users don't care.
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[05:47] <lotusleaf> desrt, therein lies the problem then
[05:48] <desrt> lotusleaf; users don't want you to tell them what they want
[05:48] <desrt> lotusleaf; they just want it to work
[05:48] <wasabi_> Too bad.
[05:48] <desrt> lotusleaf; _therein_ lies the problem
[05:49] <dman13> so teach users to not expect it to work ...?  ;-)
[05:49] <lotusleaf> desrt, users want many closed formats to work on many linux distros out of the box like wmv, the problem lies not with the FOSS distro but with the users over-reliant suckling on the virtual nipples of closed formats
[05:49] <wasabi_> Who cares where the problem lies.
[05:49] <mjr> the users can be told how to easily add the capability while subtly educating them about the choice :] 
=== desrt sighs
[05:50] <dman13> wasabi_: you can't fix it unless you know where to start making changes (ie where th eproblem lies)
[05:50] <wasabi_> I think this conversation is quiet old and well traveled.
[05:50] <dman13> IMO the problem is lack of cooperation -- or IOW the closed formats
[05:50] <desrt> wasabi_; i think so too.
[05:50] <mjr> wasabi_, probably
[05:50] <desrt> wasabi_; and i thought that everyone agreed that it was best to make things as easy as possible for the user
[05:51] <dman13> I'm happy enough that the additional formats are a trivial 'aptitude install' away
[05:51] <Kamion> desrt: I looked through the Fluendo licence and it didn't help us; in fact it would impede the ability to distribute things we currently distribute in main if we included that plugin on the CD
[05:51] <lotusleaf> desrt, right, by choosing a free OS rather than a bea$tly one
[05:51] <Kamion> this may or may not be true if we bought a patent licence ourselves; I'm not sure
[05:51] <desrt> Kamion; right.
[05:51] <desrt> Kamion; we have many GPL gstreamer apps on the cd?
[05:51] <Kamion> rhythmbox was mentioned as one, yes
[05:52] <desrt> Kamion; i'm fairly sure it's getting relicensed soon
[05:52] <wasabi_> desrt: it is, without doing stuff we can't do.
[05:52] <Kamion> I wouldn't presume to comment there
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[05:52] <desrt> Kamion; appropriate :)
[05:52] <wasabi_> The question then becomes a simple one. Can we distribute the gst mp3 stuff in main or not?
[05:52] <Kamion> wasabi_: no, it's certainly not main-able
[05:53] <wasabi_> Then we're done.
[05:53] <wasabi_> Moving on!
[05:53] <dman13> wasabi_: add 'AAC' to it if we want people to be able to put their CDs on their iPod
[05:53] <Kamion> perhaps it *may* be restricted-able under some circumstances which are not in place at present
[05:53] <wasabi_> I don't care.
[05:53] <Kamion> but I'm not convinced
[05:53] <dman13> ('it' being the list of stuff under consideration)
=== desrt doesn't understand the distinction
[05:53] <wasabi_> I mean, I care, but there are simple issues that won't disappear while talking about it on IRC.
[05:53] <desrt> i mean... both go on the CD, right?
[05:54] <Kamion> yes
[05:54] <wasabi_> restricted isn't enabled by default though, right?
[05:54] <Kamion> yes, it is
[05:54] <wasabi_> Oh really.
[05:54] <mdz> seb128: this is interesting; I have two copies of rhythmbox open (one local and one remote over ssh); one of them has the normal panel icon, while the other has the sunny icon from the weather applet
[05:54] <Kamion> there may well be derivative distributions that disable that, of course
[05:55] <wasabi_> Well, if somebody can do something to put it in restricted, then super. Somebody go talk to that person and get it done. ;)
[05:55] <seb128> mdz: interesting :)
[05:55] <desrt> this whole GPL thing is confusing and possibly annoying
[05:55] <mjr> (incidentally, didn't the fluendo distributor agreement only cover desktop computers, which would complicate things somewhat even in restricted...)
[05:55] <desrt> mjr; no.  i don't think that's right
[05:56] <Kamion> mjr: the fluendo source is MIT-licensed; the distributor agreement only covers you if you're using their binaries, so I can imagine that it might not apply if somebody negotiated a different patent licence
[05:56] <desrt> Fluendo hereby provides to the Distributor the Plug-in to be bundled within the software Distribution that Distributor makes available to the public from time to time (including new releases, updates, new versions, etc.) in any way (CD-ROM, DVD, internet download, etc.), as well as the Plug-in Source Code, subject to the terms of this Agreement.
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[05:56] <Kamion> however it's entirely possible (and wouldn't surprise me) that the terms of the fluendo distributor agreement derive directly from terms in the patent licence
[05:57] <desrt> Kamion; no.  that's not right.
[05:57] <desrt> Kamion; if you use their binaries you need not sign the agreement at all
[05:57] <mdke> jdub, any luck with the ubuntu-customised yelp stylesheets?
[05:57] <mjg59> desrt: You have no permission to redistribute their binaries without signing the agreement
[05:57] <desrt> Kamion; you need to sign the agreement in order to gain the ability to compile binaries for yourself that are 'patent safe'
[05:57] <Kamion> desrt: irrelevant; if you're *redistributing* the binaries (as we would be) you do
[05:57] <Kamion> there's a distributor agreement on their web site
=== desrt is reading it
[05:58] <desrt> mjg59; ah.  right.  ok
[05:58] <seb128> mdz: is that reproducable? do you need 2 copies running?
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[05:59] <mdz> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/rhythmbox-icon.png
[05:59] <Nafallo> pitti: works fine. didn't build with the debian/rules edits, so I upload something very much like the first debdiff ;-).
[05:59] <mdz> seb128: whoa, weird, the icons in the rhythmbox UI are the same
[06:00] <mdz> seb128: reload the png
[06:01] <Nafallo> lol
[06:01] <mdz> seb128: it is the remote copy which is weird; that one is running on a breezy system while the local system is dapper
[06:02] <psusi> pitti: hal question for you: it seems that hald runs with uid=hal, gid=hal, floppy, cdrom, plugdev... only I wrote a callout script and it seems to invoke it without the group memberships... is that intentional?
[06:03] <pitti> psusi: no, sounds more like a bug
[06:03] <seb128> mdz: you just ssh -X the other box and run it? is that reproducible?
[06:03] <pitti> psusi: it probably forgets to call initgroups() somewhere
[06:03] <mdz> seb128: I will try
[06:03] <desrt> seb128; have you heard anything about the rhythmbox relicensing?
[06:03] <mdz> seb128: it is behaving normally now
[06:04] <psusi> pitti: good... then do you think I am going about this in the right way?  I'm making a hal fdi policy that invokes a callout for each detected cdrw drive which calls pktsetup to create a pktcdvd device associated with the drive, and store the path to it as a new property on the cdrw device
[06:04] <seb128> mdz: weird one ...
[06:04] <seb128> desrt: I've read quickly the mails on the rhythmbox list, why?
[06:04] <desrt> oh.  that's something
[06:04] <HiddenWolf> desrt, I'm not a rhythmbox developer, but I guess it's not going to happen too soon.
=== desrt finds the list :)
[06:04] <seb128> desrt: and doctau (rhythmbox maintainer) mailed ubuntu-devel today
[06:05] <seb128> (James Livingston)
[06:05] <desrt> has anyone heard from colin?
[06:05] <Mithrandir> desrt: as in Kamion or as in somebody else?
[06:05] <seb128> nop
[06:06] <psusi> pitti: then another policy will act on media inserted into the drive by checking if it is formatted for packet mode, and if so, override the block.device, block.major, block.minor, and block.sysfs attributes to point to the pktcdvd device
[06:06] <desrt> colin walters
[06:06] <desrt> the person who has majority stake here
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[06:06] <Mithrandir> yeah, got that fairly soon
[06:06] <psusi> pitti: hal needs these entries changed so it thinks the media is mounted when it looks in /proc/mounts, and it gets g-v-m and pmount to mount it read/write
[06:06] <seb128> desrt: not on the list and not on IRC chan while I was connected/reading it ...
[06:06] <HiddenWolf> desrt, rhythmbox really wants to stay gpl-compatible so they can use the epiphany plugin system and other cool things, afaik
[06:07] <desrt> HiddenWolf; lgpl apps can link against gpl libraries
[06:07] <pitti> psusi: sounds fine, if permission to access the device is all it needs? it doesn't need root for anything?
[06:07] <pitti> psusi: (the pktsetup call in particular)
[06:07] <Kamion> personally I'm not wild about the precedent of putting pressure on authors of GPL applications to un-GPL things
[06:07] <psusi> pitti: I fixed a udev rule so that /dev/pktcdvd/control is owned by group cdrom like it should be... as long as the callout is in that group, it should work
[06:08] <desrt> Kamion; ya.  it is kinda creepy, isn't it?
[06:08] <Kamion> yes
[06:08] <pitti> psusi: ok
[06:08] <desrt> someone told me that some random kernel developer sued ubuntu for shipping fglrx linked against the GPL kernelk
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[06:08] <psusi> pitti: and I patched pktsetup so that it can auto assign a new virtual device rather than being told the name of one to create, and prints the dev number to stdout so the callout can grab it and store it in the hal cdrw device property list
[06:09] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, I agree with that feeling
[06:09] <mdke> hi, with kernel -11 my system stops at the "Detecting and Activating Hardware" stage. I can ctrl C out of it but nothing works. Is this known? Works fine with -9 kernel
[06:10] <desrt> this whole situation underlines how badly broken the idea of software patents is :(
[06:10] <desrt> can't ubuntu  just refuse to ship in the US? :)
[06:11] <psusi> desrt: I think they didn't know what they were talking about
[06:11] <HiddenWolf> desrt, it'd make nice press, but would be utterly unwise and unworkable
[06:11] <desrt> and therein lies the problem
[06:11] <psusi> AFAIK, there has not been a test case yet to test if modules are considered derived works, and thus, are bound by the gpl
[06:11] <desrt> the people making the laws know the least about exactly what they're legislating
[06:11] <psusi> aye
[06:12] <psusi> pitti: so if I were to try and debug the missing groups tonight, what should i be looking for?  you mentioned initgroups?
[06:12] <lotusleaf> desrt, you've inspired me to make a t-shirt that reads: ogg > mp3
[06:13] <desrt> lotusleaf; good for you.  it will make absolutely no different
[06:13] <desrt> lotusleaf; but be sure to feel good about yourself for wearing it
[06:13] <psusi> lotusleaf: I'll take one ;)
[06:13] <lotusleaf> desrt, that's the spirit! no wonder we have so few Gandhis
[06:13] <pitti> psusi: yes, but hald itself already calls that, so I'm not sure where it's missing
[06:13] <lotusleaf> psusi, sold! for one karma point
[06:13] <lotusleaf> desrt, I'd rather do good than feel good
[06:14] <mdke> desrt, lotusleaf, please take it elsewhere
[06:14] <psusi> pitti: hrm...
[06:14] <lotusleaf> :P
[06:14] <desrt> mdke; ?
[06:14] <lotusleaf> mdke, apologies, I haven't had my coffee yet this morning
[06:14] <psusi> pitti: btw... on the linux terminal server project... gnome-volume-manager isn't run in each terminal session is it?
[06:15] <pitti> psusi: not sure about the group preserving semantics of exec(2), but maybe hald calls setgroups() explicitly before executing a callout?
[06:15] <pitti> psusi: no idea
[06:16] <psusi> hrm... ok... I'll look around for setgroups calls then..
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[06:18] <jsgotangco> good night
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[06:49] <pitti> mdz: do you have some minutes? can we walk through the neglected *-updates uploads in the accepted queue and accept or remove them?
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[06:54] <elmo> woah, WTF
[06:54] <elmo> Setting up libc6 (2.3.5-1ubuntu12) ...
[06:54] <elmo> dpkg: relocation error: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: symbol _dl_starting_up, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference
[06:55] <LaserJock> so is base-config used anymore?
[06:55] <mdke> its removed
[06:56] <LaserJock> ok, I removed it to get locales upgraded but I didn't know if that was something I did or something that was planned ;-)
[06:56] <mdke> mdz, just so that you're aware, the ubuntu-docs update that we discussed a while back was uploaded but is currently on standby because it needs some fixes to avoid clashing with edubuntu-artwork. infinity is handling it (it was while you were on holiday i believe)
[06:57] <mdz> mdke: ok, thanks
[06:59] <elmo> this has entirely destroyed this server
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[07:02] <elmo> is there like a bash builting for mv or rm?
[07:02] <elmo> or some other way to get this rogue /lib/tls/i686 dir out of my path without a working C library
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[07:04] <Mithrandir> elmo: LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 mv /lib/tls /lib/tls.broken might work
[07:05] <elmo> Mithrandir: oh, good call
[07:05] <Keybuk> or LD_PRELOAD the libc that works
[07:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: libc's optimization used to be borken on amd64, so I had to do that a fair bit.
[07:05] <Mithrandir> it won't work for complex stuff such as perl, but shoudl work for just mv
[07:05] <Mithrandir> should, even
[07:05] <elmo> meh, except sudo is being paranoid about the environment
[07:05] <elmo> WHINE
[07:06] <Mithrandir> oh, you don't have a root shell?
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[07:06] <elmo> no, so I'm screwed
[07:07] <Mithrandir> the /lib/ld-linux.so.2 hack probably doesn't work either, then.
[07:07] <Seveas> elmo, do you *need* to move it? Can't you simply echo '' > /lib/tls...
[07:08] <elmo> Seveas: I only have an unprivileged shell
[07:08] <Mithrandir> Seveas: without a root shell?
[07:08] <elmo> it's okay, I'll invoke the znarl bot
[07:08] <Seveas> elmo, ah, I thought sudo was just not letting LD_ASSUME_KERNEL through
[07:08] <Mithrandir> elmo: I guess you don't have ssh-with-root-privs into the box either?
[07:08] <Mithrandir> if so, that could possibly work, unless bash croaks
[07:09] <elmo> Mithrandir: ssh dies immediately
[07:09] <elmo> anything that forks is screwed
[07:09] <Seveas> ugh :/
[07:09] <Mithrandir> yeah, Znarl bot time, then.
[07:09] <Keybuk> does sudo kill sudo env LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 mv ... ?
[07:09] <Keybuk> or double the LD_ASSUME?
[07:10] <lamont> elmo: please sync bind9_9.3.2-1
[07:11] <Diziet> You need to have installed `really' instead of sudo.
[07:12] <lamont> er, when you have time that is...
[07:12] <Keybuk> meh, no, bash has no env builtin
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[07:12] <Keybuk> elmo really needed a stashed, statically linked shell somewhere :)
[07:12] <Nafallo> busybox-initramfs? :-)
[07:12] <Mithrandir> sash has mv and stuff, but that doesn't help now, I guess.
[07:13] <Keybuk> wonder whether those klibc utils would be useful?
[07:13] <Keybuk> /usr/lib/initramfs-tools/bin/busybox rm ... ? :p
[07:13] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no mv, but there's dd in there..
[07:14] <Diziet> So the problem is that sudo runs bash -c but bash -c fails, and you can't fix the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL, so nothing sudo execs will work.
[07:14] <Diziet> So if sudo is the only thing which you can get root with it's doom.
[07:15] <Diziet> Because sudo insists on calling exec and it insists on doing it without LD_ASSUME_KERNEL, so the exec will fail on any dynamically linked binary.
[07:15] <Mithrandir> no, just anything linked to glibc
[07:15] <Diziet> Oh, then all you need is a klibc utility which can either fix the problem or set an environment variable and run some program ...
[07:16] <Mithrandir> so LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=/lib/tls/libc.so.6 might work
[07:16] <Mithrandir> since ld will then, hopefully, see that it's an invalid binary and skip it
[07:16] <Diziet> Does LD_ASSUME_KERNEL work on set-id programs ?
[07:16] <Mithrandir> I don't see why it shouldn't
[07:16] <Keybuk> LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 sudo /usr/lib/initramfs-tools/bin/busybox rm /lib/tls/libc.so.6
[07:16] <Keybuk> that should work, that busybox ain't linked to any libc
[07:17] <Diziet> Ummm.  I suppose ld.so is using a whitelist rather than a blacklist.
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[07:19] <Diziet> Dinner.
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[07:53] <Keybuk> riiight
[07:53] <Keybuk> that should be another 15s
[07:53] <Keybuk> it is for me, anyhoo
[07:53] <pitti> Keybuk: startup speedup?
[07:53] <Keybuk> yeh
[07:53] <pitti> yay
[07:55] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, way cool
[07:55] <Keybuk> plus /dev/pts is actually mounted now
[07:56] <Keybuk> always useful
[07:56] <Keybuk> <g>
[07:56] <Keybuk> (it actually was before for everyone except elmo)
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[07:58] <Keybuk> tomorrow I tackle alsa
[07:58] <Keybuk> and then I make network again
[07:59] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:59] <Keybuk> there's a few cosmetic quirks during boot which I _think_ we just inherited from Debian, and not introduced by me
[07:59] <Keybuk> I'll look into those too
[08:00] <Keybuk>  * /dev/hda1
[08:00] <Keybuk>  * on
[08:00] <Keybuk>  * /boot
[08:00] <Keybuk> etc.
[08:01] <Keybuk> anyway, gone-time
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[08:03] <stockholm> mdz: i just tried to get ahold of you.
[08:03] <mdz> stockholm: when someone speaks to me in any channel, it is highlighted and my client beeps
[08:04] <stockholm> mdz: oh, i did not want to overprioritize this
[08:05] <mantiena> could someone help me to catch the bug ? I'm compiling some gtk2 stuff and it seems bug is somewhere in ubuntu -dev packages - I get error /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcolor.h:30:19: error: cairo.h: No such file or directory
[08:05] <mantiena> but cairo.h is installed on my system
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[08:56] <sistpoty> infinity: around and have some time for fpc bootstrapping?
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[09:13] <allee> pitti: hal output of not recognized camera is in #22212 as requested.  I've a usb massstorage camera that misses the camera identifications too.  Add to 22212, create new or wait?
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[09:30] <mhz> elmo: ping
[09:30] <elmo> mhz: ?
[09:30] <mhz> elmo: any chances I can have mhz@ubuntu.com enabled?
[09:31] <elmo> mhz: not unless it's urgent, not really, I'd rather spend the time fixing the script that got broken
[09:31] <mhz> elmo: or you are not the one to talk about it?
[09:31] <mhz> elmo: okis, I can wait then
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[09:38] <pitti> allee: that's a new bug
[09:39] <allee> pitti: 'k
[09:44] <csj> Mithrandir, hello, does the new casper conflict with usplash?
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[09:53] <allee> pitti: done #22216
[09:54] <pitti> allee: thanks
[09:54] <allee> pitti: np, I have to thx you!
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[09:59] <Mithrandir> csj: it needs a newer usplash if it's going to work.
[10:00] <Mithrandir> csj: but since it mostly works fine without usplash, a Depends is not the right thing
[10:01] <csj> Mithrandir, thanks , I've  packed and installed the new casper and chroot into extracted_fs installing something now
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[10:03] <csj> Mithrandir, I just installed xorg and gdm to test the livecd-base and see if it works, and you mentioned that I have to replace the extracted_cd/install/initrd.gz with initrd.img-2.6.15-11-386 ?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> csj: correct.
[10:04] <csj> and modify extracted_cd/isolinux/isolinux.cfg to use initrd.img-2.6.15-11-386 ?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> no, just rename initrd.img-2* to initrd.gz
[10:04] <Mithrandir> or change the config, either works, but the former is less work
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[10:05] <csj> thanks, I am going to try it 
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[10:23] <chninkel> elmo: it seems lesstif2 isn't in dapper universe anymore 
[10:24] <chninkel> elmo: I was told you could remove it from the sync blacklist
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[10:28] <St-> hello folks ;)
[10:29] <elmo> it's not on a blacklist, it's on a broken list
[10:29] <chninkel> elmo: why ?
[10:29] <elmo> dunno, orig.tar.gz clash, trying to overwrite packages in main, could be a bunch of things
[10:30] <chninkel> elmo: this bug can be fixed or do we have to patch debian pakcage to use lesstif1 where possible ?
[10:31] <chninkel> elmo: I compiled and installed lesstif2 on my ubuntu, didn't notice problem
[10:31] <chninkel> elmo: (I mean from the debian source package)
[10:31] <elmo> I've synced it, it's been unbroken in the meantime
[10:31] <chninkel> elmo: ok thanks
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[10:32] <chninkel> elmo: it will shows up tomorrow ?
[10:33] <elmo> chinkel: probably before then, but yeah
[10:33] <chninkel> elmo: ok, thanks
[10:40] <hunger> Would it be possible to add a "chmod 1777 /tmp" to the bootclean.sh init script?
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[10:51] <dholbach> elmo: regarding #19891, gutenprint can be synced from sid - ubuntu gimp-print changes can be overwritten - does anything else have to be done to make this change complete (apart from removing the gimp-print source from the archive after it built)?
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[11:21] <eruin> when gaim fails to work with msn and their devs blame it on the msn servers, there's always amsn to save the day, no matter how ugly it is! :)
[11:21] <eruin> meh. wrong channel, sorry
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[11:25] <Kamion> dholbach: any chance you could resurrect the GraphicalPartitioningTool gparted patch for me?
[11:25] <dholbach> Kamion: it won't apply any more
[11:25] <Kamion> yes, I understood that from the changelog
[11:25] <dholbach> Kamion: but let me try to dig it up
[11:26] <Kamion> I can dig it out from the morgue myself - I was sort of hoping somebody might be able to update it for me :)
[11:26] <Kamion> 'cos I only just realised it's been disabled - it's needed for ue-partitioning-tool
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[11:27] <dholbach> Kamion: http://home.versanet.de/~d-elstner/gparted-installer.diff
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[11:28] <dholbach> Kamion: danielk's problem was the naming of mountpoints and predicting the /dev/something<n> device they'd get assigned (you might remember the queue-like interface of gparted)
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[11:29] <Kamion> I don't really know gparted at all
[11:30] <Kamion> I don't understand though, mountpoints don't get assigned /dev/* devices
[11:30] <Kamion> you assign devices *to* mountpoints, but you don't need to predict that, it's something the user does
[11:31] <dholbach> Kamion: ok, you can tell it things to change like "resize this partition to bla settings", "add this partition", ... and they get added to a queue which is worked on, if you hit "apply"
[11:31] <dholbach> the UDU spec wanted to implement an interface for mount points as well
[11:32] <Kamion> ah, the sane approach there is to associate mountpoints with internal concepts of partitions rather than with what the partitions currently happen to be on the disk
[11:32] <dholbach> this is the part of the spec where danielk tried and failed
[11:32] <Kamion> yes, mount points are a requirement - although if I have to I can kludge around that, Guadalinex already have code for said kludge
[11:32] <hunger> Kamion: Can't you use labels for that?
[11:33] <Kamion> hunger: that has other problems and is basically orthogonal anyway
[11:33] <Kamion> please don't conflate issues on me :)
[11:33] <hunger> Kamion: Both are readily available with the new udev;-)
[11:33] <Kamion> it would be much nicer to avoid the Guadalinex kludge (a separate screen) though
[11:33] <Kamion> hunger: whatever
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[11:33] <Kamion> please let me get through this issue without derailing me
[11:34] <Kamion> the patch doesn't seem to fail to apply all that badly
[11:34] <Kamion> four failed hunks out of lots
[11:35] <Kamion> at least some of which are due to unnecessary whitespace patching
[11:42] <Kamion> dholbach: ok, I have it applying perfectly for me now apart from offsets, I'll test it tomorrow and upload it if it works
[11:43] <dholbach> Kamion: wow, cool.
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[11:53] <bryanf> why would I not have /dev/rtc on dapper?
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[11:57] <dholbach> good night guys
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[11:59] <crimsun> night daniel
[12:00] <dholbach> night daniel