[01:38] <sorush20> hi
[01:38] <sorush20> anyone here 
[01:45] <ajmitch> no, this channel is used for meetings
[02:12] <sorush20> is there a meeting about making video communications more stablein ubuntu
[02:19] <Riddell> sorush20: no, try bringing it up on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[12:48] <jelkner> happy new year everyone!
[12:49] <kjcole> jelkner, call me. (202) 234-0213.  
[12:55] <kjcole> (And to the rest of you "Hi".)
[01:01] <JaneW> HELLO!
[01:01] <JaneW> kjcole: are you a number now?
[01:01] <juliux> hi JaneW 
[01:01] <JaneW> kjcole: or is that only for jelkner? ;) 
[01:01] <JaneW> hi juliux 
[01:02] <JaneW> wow we have no meeting notes since 7 dec...
[01:02] <JaneW> must fix that
[01:02] <kjcole> JaneW, Hi.   (Asked jelkner to phone me before showtime.)
[01:02] <juliux> hi mhz 
[01:02] <JaneW> kjcole: got it, was just being silly
[01:02] <kjcole> Morning, mhz.
[01:02] <JaneW> hi mhz
[01:03] <mhz> hi you all guys
[01:03] <sivang> edubuntu meeting right?
[01:03] <jelkner> mhz: buenos dias! (btw. still waiting for edubuntu-es log ;-)
[01:03] <JaneW> mhz: lol, we do know who you are by now ;)
[01:03] <kjcole> JaneW, my cylinders aren't all firing this early. ;-)
[01:03] <mhz> jelkner: it was happily sent days ago
[01:03] <mhz> ;)
[01:03] <ogra_ibook> hi all
[01:03] <mhz> JaneW: hehehe
[01:03] <jelkner> mhz: oops, i may have dropped it :-(
[01:03] <JaneW> sivang: yes
[01:03] <JaneW> is ogra in the house?
[01:04] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, nope
[01:04] <ogra_ibook> :P
[01:04] <JaneW> ogra_ibook: :P
[01:04] <kjcole> JaneW, He was disguised as ogra_ibook.
[01:04] <JaneW> ogra_ibook: why you making me type so much more with the _ibook part? ;)
[01:05] <ogra_ibook> this machine also highlights on "ogra" ;)
[01:05] <JaneW> ok, what's news? I am a bit out of the loop and am struggling to catch up this week...
[01:05] <ogra_ibook> edubuntu-desktop should be installable again by today :)
[01:05] <JaneW> ogra: good them ogra you'll if you don't mind ...
[01:05] <ogra_ibook> the ltsp sound stuff is in the archive and fully implemented since yesterday
[01:06] <JaneW> ogra: can you give a summary of what's happened since the week before Christmas please?
[01:07] <ogra_ibook> i worked on the several ltsp tasks ... the ubuntu innstaller broke completely before christmas dur to the second stage disappearing
[01:07] <ogra_ibook> this should be solved now
[01:07] <ogra_ibook> as well as the several *-desktop packages were uninstallable
[01:08] <ogra_ibook> most of my work during the holidays and the week before went into powerpc support
[01:08] <JaneW> ogra: ok so how are we looking schedule wise?
[01:08] <ogra_ibook> so we have working ppc now (pending upload)
[01:08] <ogra_ibook> sound is in, parts of the low memory stuff are ready 
[01:08] <JaneW> ogra: also did you see the e-mail re Tollef *maybe* looking at TC Local deivices?
[01:09] <ogra_ibook> yes, that would be a nice task for the sprint
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: also I noticed a lot of your specs were pushed back to drafting :/
[01:09] <ogra_ibook> but we're past UVF at the sprint already 
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: think Tollef could do it? and in time for Dapper?
[01:09] <ogra_ibook> nope, sound is implemented
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: right
[01:09] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, only the dbus parts
[01:09] <ogra_ibook> the ltsp stuff is for my desk
[01:10] <ogra_ibook> (local devices)
[01:10] <JaneW> ogra: have you set the sound spec to implemented yet?
[01:10] <ogra_ibook> not yet, i had to clearify something with pitti before (which i did 30min ago)
[01:10] <ogra_ibook> it will be set to implemented today
[01:11] <ogra_ibook> the faster startup spec is approved and partially implemented
[01:11] <ogra_ibook> err
[01:11] <JaneW> ogra: ok we'll clarify the statuses at the dapper meeting tomorrow and set accordingly...
[01:11] <ogra_ibook> that was memory usage, sorry
[01:11] <ogra_ibook> the faster startup spec needs a minor change
[01:12] <flint> kinda like watching a tennis match so far...  Startup time is not as vital as local storage or sound even.
[01:12] <ogra_ibook> all three will be dione before UVF
[01:12] <ogra_ibook> flint, local device support is and always was a low priority spec
[01:12] <JaneW> ogra: what's your gut feel atm? better that for breezy?
[01:12] <JaneW> s/that/than
[01:12] <ogra_ibook> faster startup always was my highest priority
[01:13] <ogra_ibook> yup, sure
[01:13] <JaneW> i.e. are we on track and ready to deliver to required milstones?
[01:13] <flint> why?  in a classroom environment, the desktops are only started once...
[01:13] <ogra_ibook> even if we dont make the device support for dapper it will be a lot better
[01:13] <JaneW> we were the 'black' sheep last time
[01:13] <ogra_ibook> mdz knows that
[01:13] <flint> JaneW, this time we can be the grey sheep!!!
[01:14] <ogra_ibook> flint, i dont set the priority of the specs
[01:14] <JaneW> flint: I am getting there believe me...
[01:14] <flint> and I never figured out who did.  all I can do is comment.
[01:14] <ogra_ibook> flint, and the other specs did eat a lot of time, especially the low memory stuff 
[01:14] <mhz> flint: but that would also spend more 'energy' and if so, it's less environment friendly ;)
[01:14] <ogra_ibook> flint, mdz sets the ppriority for me
[01:15] <flint> the memory was actually important.  I know, and I suppose I can go and wine at him :^)
[01:15] <JaneW> yes priorities are set by management, and at this latish stage we can not be arguing them anymore
[01:15] <jelkner> when will we know if local devices will make dapper?
[01:15] <JaneW> we can however keep trying to achieve as much as possible, allowing us to GET to the low prio items.
[01:15] <jelkner> the reason i'm asking is that our loco team is working with a school to setup a lab
[01:16] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, its unlikely they will make it unless we get an exeption from UVF for ltsp
[01:16] <JaneW> jelkner: I sent 2 e-mails this morning, I will let you know if/when I get a response from mdz
[01:16] <jelkner> thanks!
[01:16] <ogra_ibook> i rather want to make the stuff thats partially there now to work 100% than having all of it at 70%
[01:16] <JaneW> jelkner: someone has offered to *maybe* pick it up, but he also has other priorities so once again it's mdz's call
[01:16] <JaneW> and as CTO it's his prerogative
[01:17] <ogra_ibook> and he will unlikely do the ltsp side of it
[01:17] <JaneW> ogra: how much work is that by your estimation?
[01:17] <JaneW> ogra: and if Tollef can do the rest how feasible is it that you would even get to the LTSP side?
[01:18] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, i doubt its doable in UVF time 
[01:18] <JaneW> FWIW I agree that it's required and pretty important from a functionality POV
[01:18] <JaneW> damn
[01:18] <ogra_ibook> if we can get an exception until feature freeze it will be fine
[01:19] <mhz> JaneW: what does FWIW stand for?
[01:19] <ogra_ibook> we naever made any promises for this spec
[01:19] <jelkner> JaneW: from the field, I have to repeat that without local devices, we don't have edubuntu
[01:19] <jelkner> for a lot of folks, anyway
[01:19] <jelkner> we have a school in dc that wants edubuntu
[01:19] <jelkner> but not without local devices
[01:20] <jelkner> no way to save data
[01:20] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, you repeated *several* times that we wont have any stand in the field without low memory support
[01:20] <flint> JaneW, I have asked this before, but what url has the priority list printed?
[01:20] <jelkner> ogra_ibook, that's true too
[01:20] <jelkner> for many labs we have running classic ltsp now
[01:20] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, my day only has 24h
[01:20] <jelkner> i understand
[01:20] <jelkner> so you need help
[01:21] <jelkner> i don't mean to be a pain
[01:21] <ogra_ibook> and i told you in the beginning after UBZ that its not on top of my prio list
[01:21] <jelkner> i'm just telling you the straight truth from users
[01:21] <JaneW> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
[01:21] <JaneW> FWIW = For What It's Worth
[01:21] <ogra_ibook> yes, and i dont want to support a broken or partially broken implementation for 5 years ...
[01:21] <jelkner> so the real issue than, is whether edubuntu is a priority at all
[01:22] <ogra_ibook> everything we do during this release cycle needs to be 100% and rock solid
[01:22] <flint> Here is what your direction has been set to:
[01:22] <flint> 1. Low Memory
[01:22] <flint> 2. Fast Startup
[01:22] <flint> 3. Sound 
[01:22] <flint> 4. Local Devices
[01:22] <mhz> JaneW: thx, kjcole had just told me
[01:22] <flint> Here is what is needed
[01:22] <flint> 1. Low Memory
[01:22] <flint> 2. Local Devices
[01:22] <flint> 3. Sound 
[01:22] <flint> 4. Fast Startup
[01:22] <ogra_ibook> flint, but thats not the reality
[01:22] <jelkner> i agree with flint
[01:23] <JaneW> ogra: is fast startup linked to ubuntu faster startup?
[01:23] <jelkner> and sound is done
[01:23] <JaneW> in which case I understand the priority
[01:23] <ogra_ibook> yes
[01:23] <JaneW> if not, I don't really....
[01:23] <flint> ogra_ibook, I am merely making the observation.  I believe that this is the facts of this prioritization
[01:23] <ogra_ibook> 10-20% are done by Keybuks changes
[01:23] <jelkner> fast startup was never a major concern of anyone i've worked with
[01:24] <JaneW> Ok, well decreasing the startup time is a major goal of ubuntu for dapper, we can't mess with that
[01:24] <jelkner> at all edubuntu sites running here, the machines run all the time
[01:24] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, getting down from 2minutes + startup time is a very important thing
[01:24] <jelkner> libraries, community centers, schools
[01:24] <flint> hang on, there are no rank orders on the priority list beyond "low" "medium" and "high" 
[01:24] <JaneW> ok, so you may be booting once a day maybe? not for each lesson or session?
[01:24] <jelkner> it doesn't matter how long it takes to boot (well, an hour would be unacceptable ;-)
[01:25] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, the regressions in ltsp are totally different fromm ubuntu itself, thus its only 10-20% i can get from keybuks changes
[01:25] <JaneW> fint: and essential
[01:25] <jelkner> none of the intances in dc boot more than once a day
[01:25] <jelkner> most less than that
[01:25] <JaneW> ogra: what's your personal opinion here? which is more important?
[01:25] <flint> ogra_ibook, there is no numeric rank order of priorities, is there jane?
[01:25] <JaneW> flint: no
[01:26] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, all other stuff apart from local devices, since it wont be 100% stable and ready 
[01:26] <flint> JaneW, i grant you essential...(and existential :^)
[01:26] <jelkner> without low memory support, we could not upgrade from k12ltsp to edubuntu in 2 existing labs
[01:26] <jelkner> without local devices, most folks don't want edubuntu
[01:27] <flint> note that in a classroom you boot the silly workstations never if they are working correctly.
[01:27] <JaneW> Mithrandir: ping
[01:27] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, imho shipping all the other parts 100% reliable is more important than having local deviaces in and producing a hell lot of bugreports we cant fix during the next 5 years
[01:27] <kjcole> flint, she meant "essential", "high", "medium", "low".
[01:27] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, thats not true
[01:28] <JaneW> Mithrandir: sorry to bother, but can you comment on ThinclientLocal Devices please? we are in an Edubuntu meeting...
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, we have a ton of happy users that work fine with the breezy implementation which doesnt have any addons at all
[01:28] <jelkner> ogra_ibook, what's not true
[01:28] <JaneW> ogra: will it be very buggy if implemented?
[01:28] <JaneW> ogra: was that the reason for not prioritising? Forgive me I don;t know the technical details here...
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, thats hard to predict, but it willl take a lot of time to get it right
[01:28] <jelkner> ogra_ibook, we would have *way* more if we had local devices
[01:28] <Mithrandir> JaneW: pong
[01:29] <jelkner> you can't say it is not true just because we have x number of happy users
[01:29] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, thats a question only mdz can answer
[01:29] <mhz> I understand jelkner and flint points very well, and agrre with them on the fact that local device support is very 'convincing' issue for modern end-users. But can't the dc instances start using edubuntu and wait 6 months or less?
[01:29] <JaneW> Mithrandir: hi, thanks.
[01:29] <JaneW> Mithrandir: sorry to bother, but can you comment on ThinclientLocal Devices please? we are in an Edubuntu meeting...
[01:29] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I think it's doable for dapper, but it requires somebody to have time for it allocated.
[01:29] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, and you cant say we dont get users because local devices are missing ;)
[01:29] <jelkner> what about the 3*x number of users we don't have because we don't have local devices?
[01:29] <jelkner> i know we are missing users because of this
[01:29] <flint> kjcole, gotcha so the rank order contrast would look like this, Here is what your direction has been set to:
[01:29] <flint> essential. Low Memory
[01:29] <flint> high. Fast Startup
[01:29] <flint> medium. Sound 
[01:29] <flint> low. Local Devices
[01:29] <JaneW> Mithrandir: sorry to put you on the spot, but I am trying to establish if it is in any way possible to get the spec implemented suuccesfully and entirely and stability for dapper
[01:29] <flint> Here is what is needed
[01:29] <flint> essential. Low Memory
[01:30] <flint> high. Local Devices
[01:30] <flint> medium. Sound 
[01:30] <flint> low. Fast Startup
[01:30] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I think it is.
[01:30] <jelkner> i have potential users ready for me to setup labs, but not without a way for there students to save data
[01:30] <jelkner> i'm also catching a bit of hell from current users who keep asking me "when can we save data?"
[01:30] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, i'm fine with putting time into the ltsp side if someone cares for dbus and the g-v-m side
[01:30] <JaneW> Mithrandir: are you proposing doing the LTSP parts as well?
[01:30] <jelkner> i keep telling them "patients, its coming"
[01:31] <jelkner> that's why i'm such a pain around this issue
[01:31] <JaneW> jelkner: is it a hospital?
[01:31] <juliux> jelkner, at the university here we have sun thinclients and there is no local device support availiable, because the admins have disabled it
[01:31] <Mithrandir> JaneW: but it requires somebody who understands dbus &c to do it, it's probably tricky to get correct.
[01:31] <jelkner> juliux: yes, students have network storage
[01:31] <ogra_ibook> jelkner, why do you do that ? i told you long time ago its not reliably fixed yet
[01:31] <jelkner> so local devices are not a problem
[01:31] <JaneW> Mithrandir: right, and it's mdz's call whether we can even try...
[01:31] <jelkner> common in university settings
[01:32] <flint> the folks who use this thing have a perception of the priority order that contrasts the project management.
[01:32] <jelkner> not common in elemantary schools, libraries, community centers
[01:32] <juliux> jelkner, but not everybody need it
[01:32] <JaneW> flint: huh?
[01:32] <Mithrandir> JaneW: yes.  My out-of-the-air guess is a week to get it working somewhat, double that or so to get it working nicely.
[01:32] <jelkner> juliux: i never said everyone needed it
[01:32] <jelkner> i don't, for example
[01:32] <jelkner> i did say most do
[01:33] <jelkner> and the communities i feel we are trying to reach need it most
[01:33] <flint> JaneW, local storage is a higher priortiy for the users than say sound.
[01:33] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, do you agree asking for a UVF exception and extend the time until feature freeze would be enough
[01:33] <JaneW> Mithrandir: ok, we'll take it further with mdz. Thanks.
[01:33] <flint> by users i mean line teachers in a classroom.
[01:33] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: yes, it's not something which can be done before UVF.
[01:33] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, thats what i would go for ...
[01:33] <JaneW> flint: no not really
[01:33] <ogra_ibook> oki
[01:34] <Mithrandir> JaneW: if I were to do it, I would prefer to do the whole delivery, since coordinating with oneself is less work than coordinating with somebody else.  You might need to fight with mdz/Kamion about taking time away from working on live cd/installer stuff.
[01:34] <juliux> flint, i think sound is more neede as local device support
[01:34] <kjcole> Stating the obvious perhaps, but here in the US, there are enough computers that students (and others) will need access to their materials away from the lab.  Especially if they are doing "home" homework.
[01:34] <JaneW> Mithrandir: erk, isn't liveCD installer more NB?
[01:34] <ogra_ibook> i thought it was taking time from network auth 
[01:34] <flint> juliux, actually the last thing you need in a classroom is more sounds :^)
[01:35] <JaneW> flint: head phones
[01:35] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I'm hacking on some not-live installer bits to get better keyboard support into the live cd
[01:35] <flint> JaneW, or another think for the child to loose/mis-adjust
[01:35] <juliux> flint, but you also dont want that the students can bring there one programms on a usb stick
[01:35] <Mithrandir> JaneW: I'm not touching espresso, though I think I shall look at it at some point.
[01:35] <juliux> flint, i am a student and students love it to attact the lan
[01:35] <JaneW> Mithrandir / ogra: could you 2 have a word with mdz if you see him later, and we can discuss again in the Dapper meeting tomorrow morning?
[01:35] <jelkner> juliux: why not?
[01:36] <Mithrandir> JaneW: mdz is around now
[01:36] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, yup
[01:36] <flint> juliux, actually, if the kid shows up with the game he just wrote in python, we get down on our knees and praise god.
[01:36] <flint> is mdz up?
[01:36] <ogra_ibook> he's awake ? 
[01:36] <JaneW> isn't it a bit early still?
[01:36] <flint> I will call him and get him on the channel is you all want
[01:36] <ogra_ibook> havent seen a trace
[01:36] <jelkner> people must have a way to save data, simple as that
[01:37] <juliux> webspace?
[01:37] <flint> it is 4:49 local time Los Angeles
[01:37] <JaneW> ok anyway we have discussed this long enough here, we'll speak to mdz, and let you know what the verdict is.
[01:37] <jelkner> juliux: fine for privileded users, not fine for those who don' t have it
[01:37] <JaneW> what's next?
[01:37] <juliux> jelkner, most have it
[01:37] <jelkner> not true
[01:37] <jelkner> perhaps in your setting
[01:37] <juliux> jelkner, every student have one
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> the edubuntu-artwork package is ready so far
[01:38] <jelkner> not here
[01:38] <juliux> jelkner, also in us
[01:38] <JaneW> ogra: great, you still need artwork though right?
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> it will hit the archive today or tomorrow with the age selection built in
[01:38] <jelkner> i am in us
[01:38] <JaneW> ogra: and will you have several selections after install? as discussed previously?
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> but indeed i need some artwork to put in :)
[01:38] <JaneW> ogra: great thanks
[01:38] <jelkner> and most students do not have their own web space
[01:39] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork will give you 3 choices 
[01:39] <juliux> jelkner, but webspace from the university
[01:39] <mhz> ogra: there are some backgrounds almost ready to be tested/used 
[01:39] <jelkner> juliux: yes, university students do
[01:39] <mhz> 1 for each age selection
[01:39] <ogra_ibook> mhz, i have to wait for something official
[01:39] <jelkner> not elementary students, community folks, etc
[01:39] <mhz> (they're supposed to be ready by friday afternoon)
[01:40] <mhz> ogra: ahhhhh
[01:40] <JaneW> mhz: are you going to put them on the art site?
[01:40] <mhz> JaneW: of course :)
[01:40] <ogra_ibook> i'm happy to add community stuff now, but dont be disappointed if it gets replaced by something
[01:40] <JaneW> ogra: but I think we'll only get one official wall paper, for the default install
[01:40] <mhz> ogra: i know the drill ;)
[01:40] <JaneW> ogra / mhz: we can and should have community contributed stuff too
[01:40] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, i still have no answer from silbs about that
[01:41] <ogra_ibook> JaneW, i asked if we get one or three designs
[01:41] <JaneW> mhz: yes we will need to explicitly run them by the powers that be this time though, so avoid a lynching ;)
[01:41] <mhz> JaneW / ogra : we are working on GTK theme drafts 
[01:41] <JaneW> s/so/to
[01:41] <JaneW> mhz: YAY :)
[01:41] <flint> ok, i just talked to mdz.  
[01:41] <ogra_ibook> mhz, we want to kepp the default theme from ubuntu ... 
[01:42] <ogra_ibook> mhz, at least for the gnome desktop 
[01:42] <flint> the deal here is that it is not a priority issue.  
[01:42] <kjcole> juliux, Universities have had computers for centuries, and are generally well ahead of what the K-12 crowd has in the way of computers, network access, tech support people, etc.  One look at the apps labeled "education" in Edubuntu tells you who the current target audience is, and it ain't university students...
[01:42] <mhz> ogra: okis, I long ago understood there will be no 'coordination' with 'central work'
[01:42] <mhz> :(
[01:42] <flint> he feels that no one has figured out how to do local devices to his satisfaction.
[01:42] <ogra_ibook> (gtk that is)
[01:43] <ogra_ibook> mhz, thats not true 
[01:43] <flint> btw do not call him again, he is "entertaining"...
[01:43] <ogra_ibook> mhz, but changing the gtk theme was never in scope
[01:43] <mhz> ogra: it is and you just told you have not 'heard' from slbs
[01:44] <mhz> ogra:  ? IIRC, we said (looong ago) "we need 3 themes"
[01:44] <ogra_ibook> mhz, nope, its not, we can ship a lot of community stuff
[01:44] <ogra_ibook> mhz, its just that the default will be a professionally designed one
[01:44] <mhz> ogra: yes, we can ship but we are not working "coordinated" with slbs, are we?
[01:44] <ogra_ibook> and i dont know yet if all three defaults will be or only one
[01:45] <ogra_ibook> but beyond that, we can put a ton of wallpapers into the artwork package or additional stuff to select from
[01:45] <mhz> yes, thats cool, i am not complaining :) I am just saying that I have no clue what slbs and the designers are working on
[01:45] <JaneW> ogra: do you think so? I woiuld think it should look a bit distinct...
[01:45] <mhz> no roadmap or anything
[01:45] <ogra_ibook> mhz, silbs works with an art agency
[01:45] <ogra_ibook> mhz, there is the dapper release schedule ...
[01:46] <ogra_ibook> it should have artwork deadlines
[01:46] <mhz> ogra: heheh, yes, I know about the shcedule
[01:46] <mhz> but i'll put it this way: Here, in this meeting we are talking as Edubuntu community to work on stuff or help
[01:46] <ogra_ibook> dont care what silbs and the designers are working on, just go on with your stuff ... as i said, i think we'll have enough space on the Cd this time to add artwork
[01:46] <mhz> I have never heard of slbs plans on design
[01:47] <JaneW> flint: you saying it's not worth us talking to mdz about the issue?
[01:47] <flint> JaneW, No.  Read carefully.
[01:47] <mhz> ogra: exactly, I appreciate you can have some room for artwork, hence we are working on 3 gtk drafts
[01:48] <JaneW> flint he feels that no one has figured out how to do local devices to his satisfaction.
[01:48] <mhz> ogra: but i am just saying "I know we (commnity) dont work in coordination with 'official hired artwork plans'
[01:48] <flint> JaneW, yes, exactly! Zimmerman says that the current spec is incomplete
[01:48] <ogra_ibook> mhz, the -artwork package isnt prepared to handle gtk themes and was never intended to do so
[01:48] <mhz> ogra: ooops, i didnt know that
[01:48] <flint> if the specification for local devices was complete we could move forward.
[01:48] <jelkner> i gotta run guys, same time next week?
[01:49] <ogra_ibook> mhz, thats why i said the above :)
[01:49] <flint> indeed elkner, do not give up on what you need to teach.
[01:49] <mhz> and then, JaneW and ogra, what should i understand by "we need 3 age-splittted-artwork" ?
[01:49] <ogra_ibook> flint, Mithrandir knows how to implement it ... we'd have to sort it in a meeting with mdz
[01:50] <ogra_ibook> mhz, the artwork package will offer to select one of three age categories
[01:50] <ogra_ibook> (post install)
[01:51] <mhz> ogra: okis, and what will that include? only wallpapers?
[01:51] <ogra_ibook> involving icons, splash and wallpaper
[01:51] <mhz> ahh
[01:51] <flint> ogra_ibook, can Mithrandir write a specification to satisfy mdz?
[01:51] <mhz> hmmm, Icons will take much longer
[01:51] <ogra_ibook> gah, i have a horrible lag here ...
[01:51] <mhz> unless we use Tango, Gartoon and other
[01:51] <ogra_ibook> flint, i can write it after having a meeting
[01:52] <ogra_ibook> mhz, yes, thats the plan
[01:52] <flint> ogra_ibook, do you have the time to do this?  I can help with specs...think of me as your secretary!
[01:52] <JaneW> we are ging to have to try to have one of these meetings where we don't spend an hour + arguing, but rather try to collaborate... that would be a novel change .
[01:53] <ogra_ibook> flint, we had a wonderful clear spec after the first BOF meeting ... that was going a bit confusing during the next ones
[01:53] <flint> ogra_ibook, that is correct, imagine me in a short dress on your lap....hmmm.
[01:53] <ogra_ibook> eeek
[01:53] <JaneW> we haven't even discussed the cook book yet.
[01:53] <JaneW> and I fear the bickering puts people off...
[01:53] <JaneW> flint: arrgh!
[01:53] <ogra_ibook> flint, will you carry pompoms ? 
[01:53] <flint> kevin is here and much progress has been made in this area...
[01:54] <flint> ogra_ibook, pompoms only if you are good, and bring cigars.
[01:54] <kjcole> My cue, I guess...
[01:54] <ogra_ibook> sure i will :)
[01:54] <mhz> JaneW: true but if not here, when?
[01:54] <mhz> :)
[01:54] <mhz> JaneW: the good thing is we are reaching agreements ;)
[01:54] <mhz> or so it seems
[01:55] <JaneW> mhz: granted, but this happens each week. We really need a good face to face pounch up to get it all out ;)
[01:55] <mhz> heheh, indeed
[01:55] <kjcole> Cookbook: Now more than halfway through the first pass.  Also, with the help of ogra, jblack, lifeless and flint, I've been getting a much better handle on how to use bzr.
[01:55] <mhz> cool!, Kamion 
[01:55] <mhz> cool!, kjcole 
[01:55] <mhz> (this autocompleting!)
[01:55] <JaneW> kjcole: excellent :))
[01:55] <mhz> (it should present matches before)
[01:56] <JaneW> kjcole: how much editting is it needing?
[01:56] <flint> and do not forget the help from mhz!!!
[01:56] <ogra_ibook> mhz, it does if you dont hit enter to quickly :)
[01:56] <kjcole> I see launchapd is now tracking our revisions too (as of yesterday, it appears).  I put the branch in there while we were sitting in Montreal.
[01:56] <mhz> flint: I have not been of any help yet
[01:57] <flint> mhz, mhz has been of excellent help setting up a bzr repository for the use of the cookbook project.
[01:57] <mhz> flint: I will. jelkner and kjcole will let me in once they finish 1st part
[01:57] <JaneW> mhz: just saw your pic, you look quite a lot like Jeff Waugh ;)
[01:57] <flint> mhz, you already have access to the depository, say the word and I put you back in the sudoers file...
[01:58] <mhz> JaneW: is that a good or bad thing :) ?
[01:58] <kjcole> JaneW, I wish we'd gotten to this before jelkner had to split.  We have very similar styles regarding wording, but different priorities.  Since jelkner has actually published and I have not, I bow to his priorities.
[01:58] <flint> JaneW, do not scare the poor man off!
[01:58] <mhz> ogra_ibook: ohh, it does it, thx
[01:58] <mhz> (tab Tab)
[01:59] <JaneW> kjcole: yes sorry I wasn;t watching the clock closely, we'll def do cook book first next week
[01:59] <JaneW> kjcole: does it cause conflict between you at all?
[01:59] <mhz> kjcole: wise it is, unless until cookbook is out and then you would also stop being a 'padawan' :D
[01:59] <flint> JaneW, this priority stuff had to take priority :^)
[01:59] <kjcole> JaneW, His approach is "Keep as much of the tuxLab Cookbook as possible.  Whittle it down.  When finished whittling, add in material specific to Dapper.  Release.  Add in more "How to teach usung Edubuntu."  Release again."
[02:00] <mhz> lguerra: bienvenido!!!
[02:00] <lguerra> Hi mhz
[02:00] <flint> my evil contribution was to look over the cookbook outline...and revise it for use on planet earth.
[02:00] <mhz> JaneW: lguerra is being the only 'other' active person in #edubuntu-es, very willing to help and test
[02:01] <JaneW> kjcole: seems to make sense...
[02:01] <kjcole> JaneW, Not much conflict, no.  I just worry that people might be expecting marvelous changes from what we both already consider to be a very fine piece of work we've started from.
[02:01] <flint> lguerra, any friend of Mauritzo is a friend of us.
[02:01] <lguerra> tks Flint
[02:02] <JaneW> kjcole: no I don;t think major changes are expected, we just have to makes sure it is relevent and there are no weird tuxlab references that make no sense in the edubuntu context
[02:02] <flint> JaneW, that is the most dissapointing part, there is little conflict.  I feel about conflict and arguement like a vampire feels about blood....
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: I know but you are into S&M
[02:02] <mhz> lguerra: we are now listening about kjcole and jelkner advances on CookBook for Edubuntu
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: and swinging, and beastility and who know what else...
[02:02] <mhz> flint: thx
[02:03] <flint> seriously, the real challange is that the tuxlab book was written very closely to the Shuttleworth foundation requirements in SA.  This must be much more general.
[02:03] <JaneW> flint: agreed
[02:03] <kjcole> ogra_ibook, I had sent you the LTSP startup stuff from the tuxLab Cookbook for you to revise.  Had a free second to work miracles there as well as everywhere else you've been working miracles?
[02:04] <mhz> jsgotangco: wb
[02:04] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, one thing you could really help with...the graphics in the tuxlab book are...what is the word?
[02:04] <JaneW> flint: cool
[02:04] <JaneW> ?
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> heh
[02:05] <JaneW> flint: what do you need?
[02:05] <flint> JaneW, is Johnathan Carter on the line?
[02:05] <JaneW> flint: not sure...
[02:05] <JaneW> highvoltage: ping
[02:05] <JaneW> flint: you can be candid
[02:05] <flint> JaneW, I just do not want to hurt highvoltages feelings, he is a crack kinda guy...
[02:05] <JaneW> Jonathan didn;t draw them anyway, there was an illustrator
[02:06] <jsgotangco> crack?
[02:06] <flint> there is a pix of RMS in the original that must be seen to be believed!!!
[02:06] <JaneW> who got paid
[02:06] <flint> JaneW, ok get the money back.
[02:06] <flint> JaneW, now.
[02:06] <JaneW> I think it was meant to be amusing and a bit tongue in cheek
[02:07] <kjcole> JaneW, jelkner likes them.  I find them to be "consistent" which is a big plus, and "gentle" which is also okay.  Am I thrilled by them? Not exactly, but no real complaints.  (I'm easy.)
[02:07] <flint> JaneW, darlin' I mean "damn"
[02:07] <JaneW> kjcole: ITA with your interpretation
[02:07] <ogra_ibook> i'm not sure we have the allowance to ship the graphics 
[02:07] <mhz> lol
[02:07] <mhz> I can place a picture of myself
[02:08] <JaneW> ogra: I think we can... but I'll need to dbl check
[02:08] <jsgotangco> what's the status of the manual?
[02:08] <flint> ogra_ibook, me I want that eurotrash look, kinda bauhaus...
[02:08] <mhz> I have gained more wight last 2 months
[02:08] <ogra_ibook> flint, cool !
[02:08] <mhz> and from a 10 mt distance, I can play RMS very well
[02:08] <ogra_ibook> flint, make some drawings ;)
[02:08] <flint> ogra_ibook, exactly!
[02:08] <mhz> ogra: and you can have my permission to include it
[02:09] <flint> mhz, you probably do not like tea and bathe regularly.  we will consider you... maybe!
[02:09] <mhz> heheh
[02:09] <kjcole> ogra_ibook: LTSP (moo cow?) bootup walkthrough? 
[02:09] <ogra_ibook> nah
[02:09] <ogra_ibook> not needed for us
[02:10] <flint> JaneW, seriously, there is a crying need for an artistic theme here.
[02:10] <ogra_ibook> as well as only lts.conf settings we support should show up in the cookbook
[02:10] <flint> JaneW, were you involved in the original tuxlab book?
[02:10] <JaneW> flint: again I don' think it's a priority, but if someone does it, great we'lll be very happy.
[02:10] <JaneW> flint: no not at all, I first heard of it at the London Summit
[02:11] <flint> JaneW, think of the book as print advertising for the project.
[02:11] <kjcole> ogra_ibook: Dunno who we need authority from on graphics but the I've been in touch with the original author and the illustrator and both gave us their blessings.
[02:11] <JaneW> flint: which is where I first got to know Jonathan and Hilton too
[02:11] <mhz> flint: we could also help with those graphics as soon as we get time to read and work on it
[02:11] <ogra_ibook> kjcole, ok, thats enough 
[02:11] <JaneW> ok oiur time is up, anything else/
[02:11] <JaneW> ?
[02:12] <ogra_ibook> i was remembering the original was under a strange license
[02:12] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:12] <flint> i suppose my thought here is that the default themes of edubuntu should closely match the illustration style of the book.
[02:12] <JaneW> ogra: that was the draft it wasn;t released yet
[02:12] <ogra_ibook> flint, so you want RMs wallpapers o_O
[02:12] <jsgotangco> err what's the status of the manual? (nobody answered)
[02:12] <ogra_ibook> s/RMs/RMS
[02:12] <mhz> ogra: LOL!
[02:12] <flint> ogra_ibook, ouch!
[02:13] <kjcole> ogra_ibook: The walkthrough doesn't tell people what to do, it just explains (in horrid detail) what happens during the boot.  Since that's all changed (according to jelkner) he wanted you to revise that.
[02:13] <mhz> jsgotangco: i have no clue yet
[02:13] <flint> jsgotangco, the draft is out on bzr.
[02:13] <jsgotangco> url?
[02:13] <mhz> hmm, i am also a little lazy, url ?
[02:14] <flint> http://docbook.flint.com.  kevin is this correct?
[02:14] <JaneW> Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial License
[02:14] <mhz> lguerra: that is it :)
[02:14] <ogra_ibook> kjcole, you wont see anything in the bootprocess except the progressbar of usplash once i'm done
[02:14] <jsgotangco> oh its in docbook?
[02:14] <flint> oops https://docbox.flint.com kevin help a fella here!
[02:14] <kjcole> Lauchpad still points to my copy.  I'll point it at docbox later this morning.
[02:14] <ogra_ibook> kjcole, indeed you can describe whats going on behind the scenes
[02:15] <flint> i will endeavor to get the silly url correct
[02:15] <kjcole> ogra_ibook: That's what the original did: The behind the scenes stuff.
[02:15] <ogra_ibook> yup
[02:16] <flint> my book will be called "the making of the edubuntu cookbook" it will be a  horror novel.
[02:16] <kjcole> flint, FITS
[02:16] <ogra_ibook> hehe
[02:16] <ogra_ibook> i'll buy one
[02:16] <jsgotangco> NOTICE TO USERS
[02:16] <jsgotangco> This computer system is the private property of its owner, whether individual, corporate or government. It is for authorized use only. Users (authorized or unauthorized) have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy.
[02:16] <jsgotangco> nice
[02:16] <jsgotangco> with a round shiny edubuntu logo
[02:17] <kjcole> jsgotangco, hold.  flint was a wee bit premature with that announcement.
[02:17] <flint> actually elkner and kevin seem to have this matter well in hand...
[02:17] <flint> kjcole, sorry kevin, you are correct. it is not soup yet.
[02:17] <jsgotangco> Flint Information Technology Services (FITS)
[02:17] <jsgotangco> Montpelier, VT 05602-8361
[02:18] <JaneW> flint: sorry but that is SUCH A United States type warning!
[02:18] <kjcole> jsgotangco: CURRENTLY the bzr repository is at http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook but I never wanted to keep it there as it is a Gallaudet University machine which I have no rights to make a public repository.
[02:18] <flint> jsgotangco, i suppose i need to go look at this thing...every morning something new...
[02:19] <kjcole> jelkner keeps asking if we can have the master repository on launchpad.  As I understand things launchpad would only be a mirror.
[02:19] <mhz> flint: and that url is ready to be used as bzr branch?
[02:19] <jsgotangco> why not use supermirror?
[02:20] <flint> hey at least it is working?  who knows how to use the supermirror? 
[02:20] <mhz> .oO(first time I saw 'branch'  I thought you meant brakfast + lunch , or a late morning breakfast)
[02:20] <flint> JaneW, I did not put the silly thing up!  this is what happens when you play with other kids...
[02:20] <kjcole> jsgotangco: is supermirror different from launchpad?
[02:20] <highvoltage> JaneW: pong
[02:21] <JaneW> highvoltage: hello
[02:21] <highvoltage> flint: yes, i am now
[02:21] <jsgotangco> kjcole, supermirror is basically part of LP
[02:21] <ogra_ibook> jsgotangco, supermirror isnt ready yet afaik
[02:21] <jsgotangco> (or something like that)
[02:21] <JaneW> highvoltage: flint was discussing the cookbook images
[02:21] <kjcole> JaneW: My fault.  I put that there, since I'm not certain how docbox will ultimately be used (other than as the Cookbook repository) and it's flint's box.
[02:21] <highvoltage> meeting still on?
[02:21] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[02:21] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:21] <flint> highvoltage, johnathan, I was disparaging the tuxbook portrait of RMS...
[02:21] <highvoltage> :)
[02:22] <highvoltage> just an update on the cookbook from TSF side, if I may.
[02:22] <highvoltage> (and it's jonathan, btw)
[02:22] <JaneW> linus's one isn;t too bad
[02:22] <kjcole> JaneW: And I know flint to have something of a background in computer security.  Last but not least "Flint Information Technology Services (FITS)" is a bit of an inside joke.
[02:22] <highvoltage> the cookbook is practically being re-written.
[02:22] <flint> highvoltage, sorry, I always do that, and it is completely wrong.
[02:22] <JaneW> kjcole: yes I noticed that too!
[02:22] <flint> highvoltage, johnathan....gotta work on that.
[02:23] <JaneW> highvoltage: huh? What? Why?
[02:23] <highvoltage> we're updating a huge amount of the content, which we'll give over to copywriters who will merge it with the first version of the book.
[02:23] <highvoltage> everything will be available in docbook.
[02:23] <highvoltage> flint: no problem :)
[02:23] <kjcole> highvoltage: ????
[02:23] <JaneW> flint: J O N A T H A N !
[02:23] <flint> kjcole, excellent work ont the repository...
[02:23] <highvoltage> flint: you're the only person in the world i'll excuse for that
[02:23] <flint> JaneW, ok I feel guilty...
[02:23] <highvoltage> now that I'm here (and sorry for just jumping in like this)
[02:23] <flint> highvoltage, thanks for your kind indulgence...
[02:24] <highvoltage> i sent the request for the drupel site on http://proto.edubuntu.org
[02:24] <highvoltage> when people get back into work mode we can get our drupal site nicely set up.
[02:24] <JaneW> highvoltage: yipee
[02:24] <mhz> kjcole: sorry, CookBook is not the one we needed? 
[02:24] <flint> highvoltage, we have the edubuntu cookbook in a bzr repository, since you are its mother I will get you an account on the site if you want it.
[02:24] <highvoltage> JaneW: i was wondering, perhaps we should do the new website launch with the next release again?
[02:24] <highvoltage> (for maximum effect)
[02:25] <highvoltage> flint: thank you, that will be good
[02:25] <jsgotangco> +1
[02:25] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes good idea, that worked well, and we got good traffic
[02:25] <flint> highvoltage, i have been playing with drupal for a lamp thing it is not bad.
[02:25] <JaneW> highvoltage: can you co-ord the necessary again?
[02:25] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes
[02:26] <highvoltage> we also have an increase in the amount of people interested in helping with content on the website.
[02:26] <kjcole> God I hate IRC sometimes.  highvoltage: I thought jelkner and I were working on the cookbook as we've been meeting every sunday...
[02:26] <jsgotangco> content - wiki pages?
[02:26] <JaneW> excellent
[02:27] <highvoltage> i have received plenty e-mails and I advise people to join the web team on launchpad, so when the drupal site is up, they will all be commisioned to start writing specific parts and work on some sub-projects.
[02:27] <JaneW> kjcole: I think highvoltage means THEIR version for tuxlabs - right?
[02:27] <ogra> kjcole, he's talking about tuxlabs
[02:27] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: not quite, but similar.
[02:27] <JaneW> highvoltage: your re-write is for your own purposes right?
[02:27] <highvoltage> sorry, yes.
[02:27] <kjcole> Ahhhh, thanks for the clarification all
[02:27] <jsgotangco> :/
[02:27] <highvoltage> let me clarify, version 2 of the howto is for tuxlabs.
[02:27] <highvoltage> and that's what we are working on at the foundation.
[02:27] <flint> kjcole, this drupal input is a good thing...
[02:27] <JaneW> highvoltage: will your rewrite affect us at all? I.e. changes we should know about and could benefit from?
[02:28] <highvoltage> however, we will use Edubuntu for installation in the new version, instead of Ubuntu+LTSP.org or K12LTSP.
[02:28] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes.
[02:28] <flint> highvoltage, i would like to have you look over the overall cookbook outline...
[02:28] <ogra> highvoltage, then it would be desirable to work together on the new version i think
[02:28] <highvoltage> it's not very friendly documentation, since we're relying on copywriters to do all the poetry,
[02:28] <JaneW> highvoltage: well perhaps you should look at what 'we' (royal we) have done to adapt it ti edubuntu
[02:28] <flint> highvoltage, oh so you don't want local storage either :^)
[02:28] <highvoltage> and it's broken up in modules that doesn't /quite/ make sense at the moment
[02:29] <ogra> flint, :P
[02:29] <highvoltage> but i'll pass it on, there will be some value in it.
[02:29] <flint> ogra, ok, i will try to be good...
[02:29] <kjcole> (Anyway, as I was saying earlier, I put the repository out on my office desktop machine which Gallaudet would probably not be thrilled with, if they knew.  So, flint has set up docbox.flint.com, which is where launchpad will point shortly.)
[02:29] <highvoltage> personally, I feel that this should have been a collaborative effort from the start, however, there are some people here who don't agree.
[02:30] <jsgotangco> :/
[02:30] <ogra> flint, else i'll steal your miniskirt and send you out to the public with only the pompoms
[02:30] <mhz> highvoltage: so the idea is we will be using Drupal for the purposes of.... ?
[02:30] <highvoltage> Next week though, I will talk to them again, snip some of this meeting to show that there *is* outside support.
[02:30] <flint> highvoltage, the deal here is that you gotta do for Shuttleworth.
[02:30] <flint> ogra, I have some big pompoms, also made of brass...
[02:30] <highvoltage> flint: ok
[02:31] <ogra> lol
[02:31] <mhz> highvoltage: here?
[02:31] <highvoltage> mhz: sorry, terribly distracted
[02:31] <jsgotangco> bah 
[02:31] <flint> highvoltage, the neat thing about drupal / bzr is we can have our cakes and eat them too.
[02:32] <mhz> highvoltage: ohh, here = tuxlab ?
[02:32] <highvoltage> mhz: that swiss guy (sorry, can't remember his name) pointed out some very good reasons to use drupal, so we agreed to try it out for the website
[02:32] <highvoltage> mhz: here = at the foundation
[02:32] <ogra> there is even a wikipage with the desired structure iirc
[02:32] <mhz> highvoltage: okis, and Moin will be dropped then?
[02:32] <flint> highvoltage, the tuxlabs book specified how to interact with the foundation as part of the install process.  you had standard hardware for servers.  things were much clearer than in the world.
[02:32] <ogra> mhz, moin is the wiki and will stay
[02:33] <highvoltage> mhz: mostly, although we'll keep the wiki, and we'll keep the moin "web" pages as a backup to drupal
[02:33] <highvoltage> mhz: just in case ogra's prophecy of an Edubuntu porn site comes true
[02:33] <mhz> drupal will be for ....?
[02:33] <highvoltage> mhz: the Edubuntu website
[02:33] <flint> ogra, moin is not a bad thing either...
[02:33] <ogra> mhz, we use moin for edu/ku/ubuntu as wiki and wont drop it
[02:33] <mhz> isnt wiki = web site?
[02:34] <ogra> mhz, for the website we currently have static pages
[02:34] <highvoltage> mhz: not necassarily :)
[02:34] <JaneW> highvoltage: Phillip
[02:34] <ogra> mhz, we want a content management system so people can also edit the website
[02:34] <mhz> ogra: ahhhhh! www.edubuntu.org
[02:34] <flint> mhz, Mauritzo, what we have here is a potlatch.  or a battle of pleantful resources...
[02:34] <ogra> mhz, so wiki == moin, website == drupal
[02:34] <highvoltage> mhz: so the website will be used for fancy things, like photo galleries, static pages, feedback forms, etc. While the wiki will be used exactly as it is used now (basically)
[02:35] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, thanks.
[02:35] <mhz> highvoltage: / ogra: now I get it right!!!
[02:35] <mhz> thx for the extra patience
[02:35] <highvoltage> mhz: no problem
[02:35] <JaneW> ack 3 days into the new year and all my typos are back...
[02:35] <flint> and these subsidiary or development pages can be used at will
[02:35] <mhz> www.edubuntu.org and wiki.edubuntu.org
[02:36] <mhz> JaneW: this is also work. we are working
[02:36] <mhz> :)\
[02:36] <JaneW> mhz: I know ;)
[02:36] <highvoltage> mhz: technically, i'm on work time now, so i'm avoiding work
[02:36] <mhz> highvoltage: lol! you always with your sense of humour, good!
[02:37] <flint> highvoltage, wait a minute, I am always in favor of acquiring resources in an unauthorized manner...
[02:37] <flint> thanks kevin!!!
[02:37] <JaneW> highvoltage: but Vickis not there anymore so no problemo ;)
[02:37] <highvoltage> flint: perhaps that's why I like your style so much
[02:37] <mhz> highvoltage: i do not understand why we have http://wiki.edubuntu BUT https://wiki.ubuntu (notice the https)
[02:37] <JaneW> kjcole: you been naked all this time?
[02:37] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, we are taking over. and Zelda is grrreat
[02:38] <flint> highvoltage, thanks ma man... anyway boys and girls, lets blow this pop stand till next week.
[02:38] <mhz> highvoltage: could we have them equal
[02:38] <highvoltage> mhz: what do you mean?
[02:38] <mhz> both http or https
[02:39] <highvoltage> mhz: i can access http://wiki.edubuntu.com fine.
[02:39] <mhz> me too
[02:39] <flint> mhz, Mauritzo http or https, it matters little...the apache locks them together as a default.
[02:39] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ works fine as well
[02:39] <mhz> really??????
[02:39] <highvoltage> works for me.
[02:39] <ogra> https should automatically be used if youre logged in
[02:39] <mhz> http://wiki.ubuntu ?
[02:40] <highvoltage> that looks like an incomlete domain name :)
[02:40] <flint> germans of course obsess about cryptography, they think it is cool :^)
[02:40] <mhz> ogra: my url shows http://wiki. even after logging in
[02:40] <flint> ogra, ...must be some german in me...
[02:40] <ogra> flint, i'm no tyical german then :)
[02:40] <mhz> highvoltage: i was lazzy to type thw whole thing :)
[02:41] <flint> ogra, if germans like coffee then "Ich bein un berliner"
[02:41] <ogra> flint, i'm just struggling with an answer to a request for hardened edubuntu 
[02:41] <ogra> hehe
[02:41] <flint> ogra, that is the silliest thing i have heard all morning...
[02:41] <highvoltage> flint: what do you mean with a crack kind of guy? i'm not familiar with the expression
[02:41] <ogra> lol, yes
[02:42] <flint> highvoltage, are you back on the pipe again?
[02:42] <highvoltage> flint: and you can always be honest with me, if you think that something i did is crap, feel free to express it any way you like :)
[02:42] <ogra> highvoltage, try s/crack/crazy
[02:42] <highvoltage> ogra: thanks for clearing that up :)
[02:43] <ogra> oh, i wish the snow outside would finally melt :) 
[02:43] <mhz> JaneW: it will be 34 C here in Chile too
[02:43] <JaneW> not sure how much higher, cos my thermometer is off the scale...
[02:43] <flint> highvoltage, johnathan, the writting is great, the RMS and Torvalds pix...well...
[02:43] <highvoltage> JaneW: it's nice and air-conditioned here at the office :)
[02:43] <highvoltage> flint: jonathan
[02:43] <flint> highvoltage, you bad man...
[02:43] <JaneW> it's a swiss thermometer and it reckons inside temps range from 8-30 only
[02:43] <highvoltage> JaneW: not -8? :)
[02:44] <JaneW> highvoltage: that's reason enough to drive 70km actually!
[02:44] <flint> fyi i believe it is warm here in vermont. about 10 F.
[02:44] <highvoltage> anyway, i'm busy sorting my internet connection out again, when that's back up i can be involved 100% again.
[02:44] <JaneW> highvoltage: nah it's for indoor temps, mean to be climate controlled
[02:44] <highvoltage> my time problems have basically been sorted out, so I won't be as scarce as I was since... well since the beginning :)
[02:45] <mhz> JaneW: but my wife has bought a small pool and an 'amaca' (piece of handcraft made of cloth that you tie up with each top to a tree trank and you can then use it to swing and lay)
[02:45] <highvoltage> and I also just want to say happy new year to everyone here, while we are still here.
[02:45] <mhz> JaneW: so those 34 C will be more bearable
[02:45] <flint> highvoltage, what did you think of the idea of having the books art match the product?
[02:45] <ogra> oh, yes, happy new year ... forgot that as well
[02:45] <highvoltage> flint: i'm all for it
[02:46] <flint> mhz, she bought it but you probably had to set it up.
[02:46] <mhz> flint: hehehehehe, nha, I was at the computer (AGAIN!!!)
[02:46] <mhz> :D
[02:47] <flint> highvoltage, that was basically my point.  Keep in mind how blown away we all were to see that there was any documentation when we got together in London.
[02:47] <mhz> flint: she asked "would you help me" I said 'yes' but she never asked "please help me now"
[02:47] <highvoltage> ogra: how do you feel about the overall status of Edubuntu at present?
[02:47] <flint> mhz, soon you will obey without question...right jane?
[02:47] <mhz> :)
[02:47] <mhz> already do that
[02:48] <ogra> highvoltage, very good
[02:48] <JaneW> mhz: d'oh I have a pool right here, I am going to leap in quickly. bbiab
[02:48] <mhz> i just take advantage of non well asked questions
[02:48] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm very glad to hear that
[02:48] <ogra> highvoltage, (jelkner and flint wil disagree, since we dont have local device support out of the box)
[02:48] <highvoltage> ogra: tough
[02:48] <highvoltage> (meant toung in cheek there)
[02:49] <flint> highvoltage, change is not the provence of reasonable men...
[02:49] <highvoltage> ogra: security issue? is it likely that it will have it in the release following dapper?
[02:49] <ogra> indeed all the manual setups from ltsp-org work just fine for local devices, its just not there out of the box
[02:49] <flint> highvoltage, and ollie, that this pig flies at all, that this dog can dance, it is a good thing.
[02:50] <JaneW> ok, I am jumping ship. Bye!
[02:50] <flint> JaneW, enjoy the pool.
[02:50] <ogra> dapper+1 will have it in any case , we try to make up some dev time for it to happen for dapper, but no promises
[02:50] <highvoltage> JaneW: cheers!
[02:51] <highvoltage> ogra: not that I'm properly qualified to say this, but great job!
[02:51] <mhz> okey YOU ALL guys, gotta get back to kitchen :)  ogra, we will continue working on  the themes draft (1st times for use playing with GTK) and 3 wallpapers for Eduuntu. Will LDM need backgrounds?
[02:51] <highvoltage> ogra: edubuntu would have been a disaster if it weren't for you
[02:51] <flint> gang I feel I contributed constructively by calling mdz at 4:30 AM and yelling at him...
[02:51] <highvoltage> yes, and /me need to get back to work, ciao
[02:51] <ogra> mhz, have a look, i dropped the fullscreen backgrounds from ldm ...
[02:52] <flint> highvoltage, good to hear from you, do not be a stranger Johnathan!
[02:52] <ogra> mhz, it uses only the cropped logo and a background color now 
[02:52] <mhz> better
[02:52] <highvoltage> flihnt: ok!
[02:52] <ogra> the fullscreen pic at 1600x1200 was simply to big and made the loading slow
[02:52] <flint> ogra, ollie i should have my evaluation space set up by next week.
[02:52] <ogra> cool
[02:52] <ogra> looks like we'll have flight3 very soon
[02:53] <Treenaks> ogra: cool!
[02:53] <mhz> ogra: shall I just get the edubuntu-desktop source and edubuntu-artwork? 
[02:53] <ogra> for ldm ? 
[02:53] <ogra> nope
[02:53] <flint> ok I am out of here!
[02:53] <ogra> you need the ldm source which is in the ltsp source
[02:53] <mhz> ogra: oh, ok
[02:53] <ogra> lets move over to #edubuntu 
[02:54] <mhz> okis
[08:43] <hno73> hello
[08:43] <hno73> sorry I'm very very late
[08:44] <hno73> looks like I missed it. oops
[08:50] <dholbach> edubuntu meeting?
[08:50] <dholbach> hi hno73 :)
[08:50] <ogra_ibook> naah, that was at 12:00 UTC :)
[08:50] <hno73> dholbach: accessibility meeting
[08:50] <dholbach> hno73: there was none
[08:51] <hno73> ah, ok
[08:51] <hno73> that's not so bad then
[08:51] <dholbach> yeah
[08:52] <hno73> the logs aren't that up to date yet AFAICT