/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/01/17/#ubuntu-devel.txt

HiddenWolfBurgwork: they are major annoyances. :)12:02
neuralis_mdz: i think he's still asleep12:04
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mdzneuralis: he'll see it when he wakes up12:21
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ogra_ibookseb128, still here ? 12:53
seb128ogra_ibook: yep12:54
seb128why?12:54
ogra_ibookwould it be possible to ship gdm.conf-custom in /usr/share7doc/gdm instead of /etc/gdm ? 12:54
ogra_ibook*/usr/share/doc/gdm12:54
seb128no12:55
ogra_ibookwith the current setup i have to overwrite or divert an empty file12:55
seb128what is wrong about it?12:55
ogra_ibookwhich is kind of silly and leaves me with the ompression i'd rather stay with sed'ing the theme entry in gdm.conf instead of using it12:55
seb128?12:56
ogra_ibookits in the way if i want to customize gdm from another package12:56
ogra_ibooki.e. edubuntu-artwork12:56
ogra_ibookgdm now uses gdm.conf-custom to read the defaults, right ? 12:57
seb128no12:57
seb128the default is gdm.conf12:57
ogra_ibookhuh ? 12:57
seb128-custom is user changes12:57
ogra_ibooki thought that was the new introduced feture ...12:57
ogra_ibookoh, then i misunderstood, so i still have to use gdm.conf to set the theme ? 12:58
seb128no12:58
ogra_ibookbut ? 12:58
seb128hum, depending who is you12:58
seb128as an user no12:58
seb128as a packager yep12:58
ogra_ibookpackager in this case ...12:58
seb128the default package settings are gdm.conf12:58
ogra_ibooki thought the -custom should enable easier cdd stuff 12:59
seb128gdm.conf-custom is what you change with gdmsetup by example12:59
ogra_ibookoki12:59
ogra_ibooki just saw an announcement a while ago ...12:59
ogra_ibookseems i misunderstood it ...12:59
seb128it said he would make easier package management12:59
seb128because gdm.conf is the package version stock12:59
ogra_ibookahuman01, k :)12:59
seb128gdmsetup doesn't modify it12:59
seb128it used ot01:00
seb128to01:00
=== ogra_ibook GRRRs loud at his tabkey
seb128so the conffile change whenever you run gdmsetup01:00
seb128with the new system your user config are to -custom01:00
seb128so you have no conffile on gdm.conf change due to local setting01:00
seb128so it doesn't break when a binary location changed by example and you choosed to keep your version01:00
ogra_ibookhmm, we should add something between these two files (dapper+1) for derivative customization01:00
seb128could be a good idea01:01
ogra_ibookit always feels bad to sed through gdm.conf01:01
seb128you could ship a -custom too01:01
ogra_ibookyes, but i'd have to divert yours from the gdm package ...01:02
ogra_ibooki dont gain much with it ... 01:02
dholbachgood night developers!01:02
seb128right01:02
seb128'nigh dholbach01:02
ogra_ibookoptimal would be to just drop my file in a dir 01:02
ogra_ibooklike the new gconf does01:02
seb128agreed01:02
ogra_ibooklets not forget about it for dapper+1 ;)01:03
ogra_ibooki'll stay with sed for now01:03
seb128yep01:05
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robertjis php5-mcrypt omitted from debian for some legal issue or another?01:09
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sladenmjg59: did bluez-firmware disappear?01:28
Riddellmdz: could you promote libavahi-qt3-dev to main?  new kdelibs just uploaded will need it01:32
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sladenmjg59: or even bluez-bcm203x01:44
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netdurp.u.o is broken... I noticed it few days ago!!!02:22
rob1is there a i686 gcc package for ubuntu?02:22
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mdzRiddell: done; in the future, please check first if any additional dependencies need to be promoted at the same time02:56
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infinityelmo: How often does autosync run?... I'm waiting on mysql-dfsg-5.0 from sid to re-sync...03:11
desrthey.. what's the word on the repositories being messed up?03:25
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ritvikmdke_, 03:28
ritviksorry 03:28
ritvikping mdz 03:28
mdzritvik: hi, looks like we were disconnected again.  I was just calling back to wrap up and say goodbye03:30
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ritvikyeah .. its good 03:30
ritvikthanks for calling . i'll wait for your reply then03:31
lifelessdesrt: ?03:31
mdzritvik: ok, cheers03:31
desrtlifeless; a few people have been asking me why 'apt-get update' is broken03:31
ritvikbye03:31
lifelessdesrt: oh, that repo ;)03:32
desrtheh.03:32
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poimensomeone kwos how to enable multiverse in dapper?04:40
Burgundaviapoimen, please use #ubuntu as this is not a support channel04:43
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DrZeusHi all.  I would like to ask if there is a way to check that a patch is integrated in the next release05:53
DrZeusbecause I had a problem with the acpi of my laptop, and found some kernel patches for fixing that(battery not detected), and I want to know if they are or could be included in the next release05:54
wombleDrZeus: Check the changelog for mention of the patch?05:54
DrZeusdont know how to do that05:55
DrZeusthis is the link where I found the patches.  Is a member of the linux on toshiba mailing list05:55
DrZeushttp://www.minet.uni-jena.de/~ferdy/l10.html#sbs05:55
DrZeushow do I check that log?05:59
DrZeushow can I check that the patch is included?06:02
wombleDrZeus: See http://packages.ubuntu.com/<packagename>, select the distribution you want to look at, and down the bottom there's a 'changelog' link.  That'll take you to the changelog for the package.  For the kernel, you probably want linux-image-2.6.15-11-386 for the package name.06:03
DrZeus womble: it tells to view the "debian changelog".  Is that the one I have to see?06:05
wombleDrZeus: Yep06:06
DrZeusok06:06
DrZeusit is not found in the page06:07
infinityThe acpi-sbs stuff isn't included in our kernel, no.  And according to that page, it doesn't apply / won't work on kernels > 2.6.13 (and we're using 2.6.15 right now)06:10
DrZeusits curious; why is not included, or listed in any sort of "official" patches repository, i dont know06:15
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DrZeusthe page doesnt says it wont work, it keeps the benefit of the doubt; but thats not enough for a release, I understand06:15
infinityOf course, if an updated DSTS is what's really needed for stuff to be a bit happier, you can follow their DSTS instrustions, toss the result in /etc/mkinitramfs/DSDT.aml, "update-initramfs -u" and reboot.06:22
infinityI suspect the kernel patches may be required, though, and if you find that's the case, please file an enhancement bug on the "linux" package.06:23
mjg59There's already a bug on it06:24
infinityThen never mind. :)06:25
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zakamehi devs06:41
LaserJockhi zakame 06:42
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:infinity] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Ubuntu 5.10 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/newsitems/release510 | Flight CD 2 released | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity
ajmitchsigh08:10
ajmitchmine was broken, but works now08:10
ajmitchsuch a shame08:11
infinityYeah.  If anything breaks again, please save me a copy.  It's easy to dig through a broken one and see why it broke, next to impossible to resolve after the fact with anecdotal reports like "well, it didn't boot.  I regenerated the initramfs.  Now it boots."08:13
infinity:/08:13
Keybukinfinity: did you see that Malone bug, btw?08:13
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Mezgod damn - this whols **** about the conflicts between debian and ubuntu ****es me off08:15
infinityKeybuk: #?08:15
Keybukinfinity: 669608:16
infinityKeybuk: The only recent Malone bug I've had assigned to me was something nvidiaish.08:16
Keybukyeah I'm not sure if I can even assign bugs to you08:16
infinityDon't see why not..08:16
KeybukI can't find anything like "Assign Bug" in Malone08:17
Mithrandirin the bug overview, click on the bug in the "fix requested in" column.  There you can reassign.08:18
Mithrandirit's a really unfortunate UI, very non-discoverable.08:18
infinityYeah, you described it, and I still can't find it.08:19
infinityKeybuk: Well, "/dev/.initramfs" is new, I suppose, but not the idea of using /dev to save state over the remount.08:20
Keybukright08:20
infinityKeybuk: Anyhow, I can just test that I have the file before I play with it.  No big deal.08:20
Keybukbut after init-bottom there is no /dev08:20
infinityIt's all just a hack until usplash grows internal state anyway.08:21
infinityOf course, log_end_msg will fail (well, "not work", rather) either way in that case, since it can't send anything to the usplash fifo either.08:22
Keybukright08:23
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infinityOTOH, initramfs does still create /dev, so it may make sense for us to be the ones that move it too.08:24
infinityHrm, no, I see why that would suck, if there was no udev.08:25
Keybukmaybe, though it prevents the udev script from being able to bail out08:25
infinityThen we'd be moving a (nearly empty) /dev to the root.08:25
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mdke_infinity, hi, the usual nudge08:40
infinity:)08:40
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mjg59Oh, dev meeting, hnngh.08:46
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dholbachgood morning08:51
ajmitchmorning dholbach 08:51
dholbachajmitch: hey andrew08:51
pittihi dholbach 08:52
dholbachpitti: hey martin08:53
mdke_infinity, you have a T43 right? does it boot with the -11 kernel? mine stops at "detecting and activating hardware"08:53
infinitymdke_: Mine boots fine.  I have other problems (lack of frequency scaling), but it more or less works.08:54
mdke_infinity, ok maybe slightly different hardware, or mine just being a pain then08:54
ogra_ibookinfinity, is there a chance that we see my noblock patch in initramfs before flight3 ?08:55
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KamionT-5mins to distro team meeting08:55
infinityogra_ibook: There's a chance if you pester me about it right after the meeting.08:55
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ogra_ibookinfinity, i'd be fine fixing it and preparing it for you if you tell me what you want :)08:56
Keybukmdke_: stops, or pauses for 3 minutes?08:56
mdke_Keybuk, i'm not sure I ever left it for 3 minutes. will try that today08:57
infinitymdke_: You can boot into an older kernel just fine, right?08:57
mdke_yes08:57
mdke_i have -908:57
infinitymdke_: If so, can you copy your initrd-2.6.15-11-686 (or whatever) somewhere, so I can have a look at it and see if it's broken?08:57
mdzdev meeting in 2 minutes08:58
infinitymdke_: I'm trying desperately to find broken initramfs's. :)08:58
Mezooh :D dev meeting :D08:58
mdke_infinity, alright08:58
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mdkeKeybuk, if it is pausing, shall I cc you to the bug?08:58
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pittimdz: postgresql-8.0 breezy-updates uploaded and ready for your electronic thumb :)08:59
Keybukmdke: yeah, though either way it's a kernel bug08:59
mdkeright08:59
khermanscan someone tell me how to compile a static binary with all the dependencies inclusive?  I would be doing this with ./configure08:59
pittiogra, ogra_ibook: ping09:00
Keybukkhermans: --enable-static ?09:00
ogra_ibookpitti, pong09:00
khermansKeybuk, yeah i tried but no luck09:00
khermansKeybuk, ther eis also enable-shared09:00
pittiogra_ibook: ok, I didn't see your ack in #u-meeting :)09:00
Keybukkhermans: --disable-shared --enable-static ?09:01
Keybuksomething like that09:01
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pittiseb128, Diziet: is there a bug report about the epy issue somewhere?09:27
pittiseb128: running commands in downloaded .desktop files09:27
pittiogra_ibook: but autostart on CDs is (a) deactivated by default and (b) much less dangerous than automatically executing downloaded .desktop files09:28
ogra_ibookyes, i only happen to remember the discussion came up with it 09:29
ogra_ibooki dont say they are related :)09:29
seb128pitti: ?09:29
seb128pitti: there is nothing epiphany specific, .desktop are app launchers for GNOME09:30
seb128ie: GNOME display the icon/name defined by the .desktop and run the command specified by it09:30
ogra_ibookbut we probably should restrict their execution from a browser09:30
pittiyes, the browser should not automatically execute these09:30
seb128nothing specific with a browser09:31
seb128you download them and double click from nautilus that's the same09:32
pittiI'll take a look at this after the meeting09:32
pittiseb128: it sounded as if clicking onto a .desktop link in the browser would already execute it09:32
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ogra_ibookyes, to me too09:32
seb128what are you talking about09:32
seb128?09:32
seb128is that a list discussion I didn't read?09:32
seb128what sounded like that?09:33
pittiseb128: you did :)09:34
ogra_ibookseb128, iwj sounded like it would be executable directly09:34
seb128anyway, is there a difference with "open directly" and "download and have to double click on it"?09:34
ogra_ibookyes09:34
pittiyes09:34
pittisince you can trick users to automatically be redirected to a .desktop file09:34
seb128anyway you can trick and user09:34
pittiif merely visiting http://foo/bar.desktop will execute the file, that's scary09:34
seb128read the mail I pointed on -meeting09:34
seb128the icon looks like a .doc09:35
seb128the name looks like a document09:35
seb128and it does a tricky command09:35
seb128so do use the browser option to automatically open attachements you click on09:35
seb128my browser is configured to open the download dialog09:36
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pittiseb128: if it spawns the download dialog, that's fine09:36
seb128that's an user option09:37
seb128if you remove the option some people will scream at you :p09:37
seb128s/scream/yell rather :)09:37
Kamionseb128: that should be controlled by the executable bit09:38
Kamionif the .desktop file isn't executable, double-clicking it shouldn't execute it09:38
Kamion(imho)09:38
seb128a .desktop is not executable09:38
Kamionmaybe it should be09:38
seb128a .desktop is a launcher09:38
Kamionit is having the effect of interpreting it and executing it09:39
seb128you don't want a confirmation when clicking on a launcher from your panel by example09:39
KamionI don't care what you call it09:39
Burgundaviapart of this is also that Nautilus has a crap UI for .desktop files. It hides the extension by default09:39
pittihm, executable bit could do the trick, yes09:39
pittiso we would ship our deskto files in .debs executable, and the browser would save them as non-exec09:39
seb128pitti: .desktop are -x09:40
ogra_ibookbut the command inside will still be executed, even with -x09:40
pittiyes, I know, that's the problem :)09:40
seb128I agree that's an issue09:41
seb128but that's a GNOME issue, not an epy one09:41
pittiat least it's not half as scary as I initially thought 09:41
pittiso it's just about trojans, not automatically executing stuff with a malicious URL09:42
mjg59ogra_ibook: ?09:42
ogra_ibookmjg59, i did a patch for hoarys hal to be able to execute dmidecode to get the bios information 09:43
pittiwell, that used a suid root helper09:43
ogra_ibookshould be similar to what you want09:43
mjg59ogra_ibook: Oh, in terms of running code as root?09:43
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ogra_ibookyup09:43
mjg59Basically, but upstream wants it on dbus09:43
pittiit should get a bit different design09:43
ogra_ibookmjg59, ah, ok, mine didnt involve dbus09:44
pittimjg59: AIUI hald should fork right at the start, and the main process drops privs, and the other stays root and only accepts dbus messages from the main hald and executes stuff09:44
mjg59pitti: That would work, or the alternative is to have an entirely separate piece of code to do that (possibly less to go wrong)09:45
mjg59mvo: Any idea why g-p-m is giving me dialog boxes rather than notification bubbles?09:45
pittiwell, yes; however, startup is more complicated then09:45
Kamionogra_ibook: what's the nfs timeout issue?09:45
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jdubhrm, google doesn't seem to index morgue.u.c09:46
ogra_ibookKamion, the issue we already had in breezy, nfs / mounts time out for the first attempt09:46
mvomjg59: ? dialog boxes? like in "gtk dialog boxes"?09:47
ogra_ibookKamion, the second works fine, as well as a normal (non /) nfs mount does09:47
Kamionogra_ibook: have you tried mounting with -o nolock?09:47
ogra_ibooknot yet 09:47
Kamionogra_ibook: since we don't run the portmapper by default09:47
mjg59mvo: Yes09:47
Kamionthus nfs can't get at lockd09:47
ogra_ibookKamion, we do with ltsp09:47
mjg59mvo: I get a dialog saying "AC power has been unplugged" with an "OK" button09:47
Kamionogra_ibook: ah09:47
Kamionjdub: pretty irrelevant considering how out-of-date morgue.u.c is09:47
ogra_ibookthats not the issue ... mdz initially thought its a klibc issue in initramfs09:47
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seb128pitti: in fact I've just tried, epiphany displays .desktop inline like a text file09:48
ogra_ibookKaloz, i think i'll look deeper in there ... since it only happens from initramfs the cause is likely to be in there09:48
mdzpitti: approved09:48
pittiseb128: and doesn't execute it?09:48
pittimdz: yay, thanks09:48
mvomjg59: sounds like g-p-m is build without libnotify support and falls back to that. maybe a bug in my upload, I can check after the meeting09:48
ogra_ibooks/Kaloz/Kamion09:48
seb128pitti: no, it display it inline as a text file09:49
jdubKamion: it covered what i was looking for, but turns out i have a backup of what i needed anyway 8)09:49
pittiseb128: hm, that's even better IMHO09:49
Kamionjdub: fair enough :)09:49
seb128pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/, click on gedit.desktop09:49
mjg59mvo: Thanks09:49
pittiseb128: right, in ffox too; *phew*, thanks :)09:50
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seb128pitti: np09:52
Keybukhttp://opensourceversus.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=447&mode=thread&order=0&thold=009:52
Keybuk^ heh09:52
pittiseb128: I think requiring .desktop files to be executable would still be an improvement, though09:52
BurgundaviaKeybuk, how to make KDE and GNOME look identical09:52
seb128pitti: was difference would that make?09:53
Burgundaviapitti, upstream has done a lot of work on gobby since UBZ09:53
pittiseb128: you could avoid hard-to-see trojan horses09:53
Keybukbtw, everyone saw yesterday's stuff about FAT, right?09:54
pittiseb128: since nautilus hides the .desktop extension by default09:54
pittiKeybuk: it was about VFAT, not FAT :)09:54
Burgundaviaseb128, pitti can we drop that hiding?09:54
seb128pitti: and it doesn't use the real filename neither09:54
seb128Burgundavia: no09:54
mjg59It's not even about VFAT09:54
Burgundaviaseb128, why not?09:54
mjg59It's about long file names09:54
pittimjg59: isn't that what vfat is about?09:54
seb128Burgundavia: you don't want to have all your launcher on the desktop having .desktop do you?09:55
mjg59pitti: I was under the impression that vfat included FAT3209:55
Keybukpitti: and FAT3209:55
Burgundaviaseb128, the user is almost never going to actually be exposed to a .desktop through nautilus09:55
pittimjg59: could be, I'm not sure about the terminology09:55
seb128Burgundavia: dnd a menu item to the desktop ...09:55
Keybuk(it's also a US patent, and we're safely tucked away in the EU)09:55
Burgundaviaseb128, how does showing the extension hurt that?09:55
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pittiany way, AFAIUI it's not about the low-level file system itself, just about the rock-ridge-like mapping of long filenames to short ones09:56
ogra_ibookBurgundavia, its pretty ugly ...09:56
seb128Burgundavia: I've a nice "gedit" icon to start gedit on my desktop, I don't want it named "gedit.desktop", that's just ugly09:56
Burgundaviaogra_ibook, better than having a security problem09:56
Keybukpitti: indeed, the filesystem itself is over 30 years old, so the newly issued patent would expire immediately :)09:56
ogra_ibookBurgundavia, i dont really see the security problem ...09:56
seb128people will not know what .desktop is and click on it anyway09:56
pittiBurgundavia: I'd rather prefer  desktop files to be executable, then you could hide the extension as before09:56
seb128you are not going to fix it that way09:57
pittiBurgundavia: and since it is kind of a script, it is interpreted (executed) in some way09:57
ogra_ibookBurgundavia, as long as your browser doesnt silently download and execute it...09:57
Burgundaviapitti, true09:57
KamionBurgundavia: it wouldn't be a security problem if there were a way to have a .desktop file that was marked as having come from somewhere insecure (e.g. executable bit)09:57
Kamionobviously it's not the same as SELinux-like MAC, but it's what we have09:58
KeybukBurgundavia: most users I've seen drag icons from the menu and panel onto their desktop09:59
Keybuk(until you teach them about panel launchers)09:59
Keybukbecause that's what they do on Windows09:59
Keybuka ".desktop" extension would confuse them, and make them thing it wasn't "the application icon"10:00
Keybukthough .desktop files should *so* be +x to work though10:00
BurgundaviaKeybuk, true, I retract my request10:00
BurgundaviaKeybuk, +x means an upload for every application that includes a .desktop file though, no?10:01
pittisadly yes10:01
seb128+x means to change every user already created .desktop too10:01
pittiwhich is harder10:01
MithrandirKeybuk: moo.10:02
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Keybukbetter than the current situation, where a user can be given a .desktop file that looks like a text file, but does bad things10:02
KeybukMithrandir: #ubuntu-boot ?10:02
MithrandirKeybuk: sure10:02
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ajmitchdoko: zope 3.2 & 2.9 before UVF? I see that 2.9 needs python 2.4, which will affect quite a few products10:06
infinityajmitch: zope2.x has gone completely to universe, so you guys are free to break it however you want.10:07
infinityajmitch: THough I'm not sure if you WANT to. :)10:07
dokoajmitch: why is the python version problematic?10:13
dokoit should not10:13
Kamionelmo: could you update germinate on jackass, please? It's too old to understand %sourcepkg syntax in seeds.10:18
ajmitchdoko: just some zope products that depends on python 2.3 libs, not too many thankfully10:19
ajmitcheg zope-cmfplone has a dep on python2.3-imaging10:20
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mdkedholbach, can you do another ubuntu-docs upload to dapper sometime, when you're not busy10:21
dholbachmdke: sure10:22
mdkegreat thanks10:22
dholbachmdke: now that we sorted out the problems, it's fairly easy - so if you have important/big changes feel free to ping me and i'll do it asap10:22
mdke:)10:22
dholbachmdke: but i'll do it once a week anyways10:22
mdkerockin10:22
mdkei've put in a short FF homepage this morning, to replace the old long one10:23
mdkeneeds work, but i'd like to get it in for people to review10:23
dholbachmdke: you could do with another call for testers/helpers on the fridge10:24
mdkewe'll put it in the next newsletter :)10:24
dholbachlet me do an update before ;)10:24
dholbachcool10:24
mdkein any case, if the BrowserDefaults spec happens, it won't be relevant, but this is just in case that spec doesn't happen10:25
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=== Keybuk reads LWN and thinks "Flash Gordon"
KeybukOn Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 07:36:05PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:10:50
Keybuk> Yeah, I "forgot" to start that particular flame-war.10:51
Keybuk*giggle*10:51
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dholbachmdke: done11:09
dholbachmdke: arg, uploaded it to REVU11:11
ogra_ibooklol11:11
ajmitchheh11:12
ogra_ibookneed reviewers ? 11:12
ajmitchwhoops :)11:12
dholbachogra_ibook: no, i think other people need them more urgently than ubuntu-docs does11:12
ogra_ibookheh11:12
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=== pitti tests live CD, brb
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Kamionoops, well that was a fun bug11:20
=== jdahlin-Zzz is now known as jdahlin
Kamionslight mistake in a cdimage script caused it to attempt to copy my entire home directory on little into the CD image it was creating11:21
Kamionwhich includes stuff like backups of old CD images, unpacked DVD images, that sort of thing11:21
hungerKamion: You shouldn't waste space on the cdimages with your backups:-)11:21
Kamionnot the images I'm creating and expecting people to burn, no11:22
ogra_ibookhmm, only backups ...11:22
ogra_ibookyour personal mail and gpg key would rather be intresting to distribute on an iso :)11:23
Kamionogra_ibook: funnily enough, I don't keep those on little11:23
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ogra_ibookoh, i read s/on/to11:23
ogra_ibook:)11:23
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Kamionhaven't done an Ubuntu CD image build on a machine with my GPG key since Sounder CD 111:24
KeybukKamion: hmm, I thought we agreed not to ship porn on our CDs anymore?11:24
Kamionalthough there is *a* GPG key on little for Release.gpg11:24
KamionKeybuk: I'm not volunteering to tell Mark11:24
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\shinfinity / lamont-away : can you please give back kdebase, thx :)11:32
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Riddellinfinity, lamont-away: kdebase and kdenetwork give back please11:49
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infinityRiddell: Done.11:56
mvowhat would be a good tooltip for "Get Help Online..."? "Connect to the ubuntu webservice to get online help"?11:57
hungermvo: Why not write website?11:59
Kamion"Connect to Launchpad for online help" (saves having to rebrand for Kubuntu, Edubuntu)?11:59
Kamionor "to the Launchpad website"11:59
hungermvo: People are way more likly to know that than webservice.11:59
hungerKamion: I'd keep the "website" to emphesize that this is on a remote computer.12:00
ograi'd take "get online help ..."12:00
mvo"Connect to the Launchpad website for online help" <- good?12:00
ograi find it to long12:00
Kamionfor a tooltip?12:01
seb128it's something display to the bar on the bottom of the app12:01
seb128like for every other menu item12:01
seb128not a mouseover tooltip12:01
mvotooltip for "Translate This Application" -> "Connect to the Launchpad website to translate this application" ?12:01
vuntz_will people know what is Launchpad?N12:01
ograoh, yes, for the tooltip its fine ...12:01
mvo"Connect to the Launchpad website to help translating this application" ?12:01
=== hunger does not find the onlinehelp very helpful.
ograhunger, so contribute to it to make it better ;)12:02
seb128vuntz_: "Launchpad website" ... seems clear it's a website :)12:02
vuntz_seb128: right, but I don't trust a website I don't know...12:02
seb128vuntz_: dunno if that would be confusing to people to have the Launchpad name12:02
seb128vuntz_: we can't put a complete description of what launchpad is in a tooltip :)12:03
vuntz_I agree :-)12:03
mvomight be good to have the launchpad name, to make it a stronger brand 12:03
vuntz_it's just that there should be some document explaning what launchpad is12:03
vuntz_in ubuntu-docs12:03
dholbachvuntz_: sounds good12:04
dholbachmaybe after the LPI paragraph12:04
vuntz_don't ask me to write it :-)12:04
mvook, if noone complains then its "Connect to the Launchpad website to help translating this application"12:04
Kamiongrammar: "help translate"12:05
Kamionor "help to translate"12:05
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mvodoes "to help to translate" sound right? two "to" so close?12:05
Kamioneither "to help translate" or "to help to translate" is fine; the former is perhaps slightly more colloquial / less forced12:06
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seb128vuntz|miam: speaking about writting ... UDN? :)12:06
Kamionor "to help with translating", although I don't really like that as much12:07
mvoI will pick "to help translate" then I guess12:07
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ogradapper-live-i386.iso  12-Jan-2006 01:05  9.9M  ... wow, i didnt know squashfs would gain us *this* much12:11
ogra:)12:11
\shlol12:11
Kamionedubuntu?12:11
ograKamion, yup, tonights build12:12
Nafallohaha :-)12:12
KamionI think that predates squashfs12:12
ograi thought its already in ...12:12
Kamionyeah, but 20060111 had the same problem12:13
ograah12:13
KamionI think you've just got no working livefs build12:13
ograoh, i wasnt referring to the error with squashfs, just joking ...12:13
Kamionor, hmm12:13
Kamionyeah, your build dates from 2006010212:14
ograah12:14
ograthen most likely edubuntu-desktop was broken at this time ...12:14
Kamionexactly why it didn't add the cloop is a good question12:15
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Kamionobviously there's no point debugging the 20060102 livefs build, but see http://terranova.buildd/~buildd/LiveCD/dapper/edubuntu/latest/ (accessible from chinstrap) for the livefs build log12:16
Kamionthat's for i386, amd64 and powerpc are on king and royal respectively instead of terranova12:16
Kamiondpkg: error processing edubuntu-artwork (--configure):12:17
Kamion subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 112:17
KamionI suspect your debconfiscation is broken12:17
ogrameh12:17
ograworked fine on all test setups i had ...12:17
Kamionwhy do you do db_get in config? it's not a reason for it to fail, but it's pointless12:18
Kamionremove the db_capb; you don't do anything on backup anyway12:18
ograoki12:18
Kamion(and just do db_go || true)12:18
ograbut why doesnt it fail on tests here ... weird12:19
Kamion(gdmflexiserver:26880): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:12:19
KamionI think that's the error12:19
ograahhh12:19
ograok12:19
ograindeed i didnt test without X12:20
ograwill add a check ...12:20
Kamioninstead of checking, can gdmflexiserver be made to work without a display?12:20
Kamionsince we do want to enable the theme, we just don't want to need a display to do so12:21
ogragood question... seb128 ?12:21
Kamion          gdmflexiserver --command="UPDATE_CONFIG greeter/GraphicalTheme"12:21
ograthe command isnt needed if gdm isnt running ...12:21
seb128what is the question about?12:21
ograits in fact only needed for "switch user" 12:21
ograseb128, making gdmflexiserver --command run without DISPLAY being set12:22
Kamionogra: oh, right12:22
Kamionseb128: edubuntu-artwork postinst12:22
ograif you end your session the greeter is restarted anyway ... i'll just check for DISPLAY being non zero and it should be fine ...12:23
seb128right, it should not require xorg12:23
Kamionogra: sounds fair enough then, yes12:23
seb128x running I mean12:23
Kamionogra: ping infinity for a livefs rebuild once you're done; if he's not around, ping me12:23
ogra_ibookoki12:23
Kamionah, ok, I see why the cloop went missing anyway, fixing12:26
Kamionrather overenthusiastic cleanup after failed fetch of the livefs kernel output (which wasn't delivered until a week or so ago)12:26
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janimoelmo, please sync/override xfce4-terminal, thanks12:29
Kamiond'oh, little's update to breezy killed report.html12:31
KamionImportError: libapt-pkg-libc6.3-5.so.3.9: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory12:31
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mvoKeybuk: did I tell you already that bzrk really rocks?12:43
\shmvo: everyone knows :)12:44
mvo:)12:44
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ogra_ibookit urgently needs a cache for websources12:52
Mithrandiris there any gui tool to edit fstab and mount partitions?12:54
\shogra_ibook: we actually need hct asap :) in the moment I'm doing Mhct work12:54
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ogra_ibookMithrandir, the disk manager app should be able to do it12:57
Mithrandirogra_ibook: thanks01:00
pittiMithrandir: disk manager is pretty broken; pysdm is much better IMHO01:00
pittiogra_ibook: did you ever manage to alter your fstab with disk manager?01:00
pittiI didn't01:00
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Mithrandirpitti: it's a user who asks "how do I access my fat32 partitions from the live cd"01:00
ogra_ibooki never tried01:00
ogra_ibookbut its supposed to do it01:00
pittiMithrandir: mounting it for the current session works well with disk manager01:00
pittiMithrandir: it just doesn't alter fstab01:01
DocTomoeThere might be a problem in dapper, concerning glibc6 and konqueror01:01
fabbioneDocTomoe: such as?01:02
DocTomoejam01:02
fabbionejam?01:02
Kamionpitti: locale-gen doesn't do anything if /etc/locale.gen doesn't exist, which it doesn't in a freshly debootstrapped chroot. Is this intentional?01:03
KamionI'd like to be able to do 'sudo debootstrap breezy /space/breezy; sudo chroot /space/breezy locale-gen en_GB.UTF-8'01:03
pittiKamion: actually not; /etc/locale.gen is not supposed to exist any more01:03
Kamionyeah, I thought it seemed odd01:03
ogra_ibookfabbione, marmelade ...01:03
Kamionpitti: oh, er01:04
pittiKamion: what does /var/lib/locales/supported.d contain?01:04
Kamionpitti: sorry, I'm very stupid indeed, I'm debootstrapping *breezy*01:04
fabbioneogra_ibook: i know what jam is.. i don't see the relation between libc6 konqueror and jam01:04
pittioh, heh, right01:04
DocTomoejam = just a minute ... I just have written the problem to raphink in #kubuntu. basically, konqueror somehow does not like the current glibc01:04
ogra_ibookfabbione, me neither :)01:04
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raphinkhmmm01:06
raphinkDocTomoe: the thing is that I see no glibc nor konqueror in the latest updates 01:06
raphinkthere is kdelibs-data though01:06
raphinkdoes it happen with other programs than just konqueror DocTomoe ?01:06
DocTomoeraphink: none that I know of.01:07
KamionDocTomoe: why do you believe that it's related to glibc? presumably there's some error message that makes you believe that01:07
=== raphink finishes to upgrade his dapper box
raphink[2006-01-12 13:03]  <DocTomoe> martin@haguchan:~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror$ konqueror01:07
raphink[2006-01-12 13:03]  <DocTomoe> *** glibc detected *** corrupted double-linked list: 0x4033d278 ***01:08
raphinkKamion: that's what makes him believe so ;)01:08
Kamionthat's glibc detecting an error in the application01:08
DocTomoeKamion: konqueror says "*** glibc detected *** corrupted double-linked list: 0x4033d278 ***", then dies01:08
Kamionit's not konqueror not liking glibc, it's glibc saying konqueror (or one of the libraries it uses) has a memory allocation bug01:08
raphinkkonqueror wasn't upgraded lately though01:08
fabbioneDocTomoe: that's a bug in konqueror01:08
DocTomoeKamion: I am no developer ... However, I thought this is glibc01:08
shawarmaOn which package do I report bugs in drivers in the kernel images in Dapper? The only package beginning with linux-image is linux-image-k7 in the Bugzilla web interface.01:08
KamionDocTomoe: I am, and it's not :-)01:09
fabbioneshawarma: linux01:09
ogra_ibookshawarma, drop -image01:09
raphinkoh yes it was01:09
Kamionhow did linux-image-k7 creep in again? I deleted that component01:09
shawarmafabbione, ogra_ibook: Great. Thanks.01:09
fabbioneshawarma: no problem. you own me another 5lt of beer :)01:09
KamionI'll not delete it again now because I think the script to convert component assignments to Malone has already been run01:10
fabbioneshawarma: pretty good btw..01:10
shawarmafabbione: LOL.01:10
DocTomoemaybe that last bit of info I gave on #kubuntu is helpful ... I deleted ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/*history* and konqueror seemes to work nicely for about 30 minutes.01:10
shawarmafabbione: Great. I haven't actually tasted that one.01:10
fabbioneshawarma: i did :P01:10
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raphinkDocTomoe: what exactly do you do to make it crash?01:10
DocTomoeraphink: I just entered a domain name in the adress bar. the first character appears, then it freezes for about 3 seconds, then it quietly dies (even w/o KDEs Crash assistant)01:12
raphinkok01:12
DocTomoeI think after the first character it performes a search in its history file that somehow screwes up because of some memory leak or something01:12
DocTomoeas stated above, I am no developer :)01:13
raphinkcan't reproduce here01:13
raphinkcould you report the bug please DocTomoe ?01:14
DocTomoeraphink: to what of the 7 million existing bugzillas out there? ;)01:14
DocTomoeboy, I really have to do some work on my english grammar -_-01:15
raphinkDocTomoe: I know no project that has no bug01:15
raphinkand a distro is not declared stable when it has no bugs anymore01:15
raphinkbut reporting bugs helps tracking them down01:15
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DocTomoeraphink: thats not exactly what I meant. ubuntu has a bugzilla and launchpad. on which one should I file the bug report?01:15
lifelessmalone01:16
raphinkoh ok01:16
lifelessbugzilla is about to shut down01:16
raphink:)01:16
raphinkand malone looks nicer :)01:16
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DocTomoeyou wouldnt happen to have the url handy, would you?01:17
ogra_ibooklaunchpad.net01:17
raphinkhttp://launchpad.net/malone01:17
Kamionhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug is probably more direct01:18
DocTomoeok, done. thanks for your support01:22
DocTomoehttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts/+bug/670601:22
\shDocTomoe: what is it about?01:22
DocTomoe\sh: seems like a memory problem in dappers konqueror or something01:22
\shbugs for my invention needs to have my attention :)01:22
ogra_ibookKamion, hmm, assumingly the broken edubuntu-artwork is on the install images as well ... i guess i'll need a new build there as well ...01:22
raphinkhmm01:23
\shDocTomoe: oh well..then it's the wrong source package :)01:23
raphinkwhy did you report it against kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts DocTomoe ?01:23
=== ogra_ibook twiddles thumbs while waiting for the package to show up on buildlogs ...
Kamionogra_ibook: yeah, will do once it's built01:23
\shDocTomoe: it should be kdebase01:23
raphinkyep01:24
\shchaging to kdebase01:24
raphink:)01:24
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DocTomoeraphink: thats the package malone suggested01:24
raphinkhmmm ok01:25
\shDocTomoe: to find a source package of a binary package :) apt-cache showsrc konqueror e.g.01:25
raphinkbut it's kdebase though ;)01:25
\shtherefore launchpad must search the binary package names as well and find out which source package it is01:26
\shanyways...changed to the correct source package and assigned to the kubuntu team :) 01:26
\shDocTomoe: thx for the report :)01:26
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Lathiatdaniels: ngghhh my alps touchpad is going at the speed of a snail again :(01:35
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Treenaksdaniels: re-poke, I haven't received your ATi thing yet ;)01:36
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ograTreenaks, ati thing ? 01:45
Treenaksogra: yeah, a register dumper; my HP laptop works with flgrx but not with ati01:46
Treenaksogra: daniels and mjg59 said they wanted to diff the output to see what's going wrong01:47
ograwhere did you get fglrx ? 01:47
Treenaksogra: apt01:47
ograi'd love to see my ati card in the ibook on it ... but there is no fglrx in dapper yet 01:48
Treenaksogra: oh? I have working X _and_ dapper on my laptop01:48
Treenaksogra: maybe because it's ppc?01:48
ograhmm01:48
ograi remeber having seen it before ... 01:48
ogra(on ppc) 01:49
infinityThere's never been fglrx on powerpc.01:49
Treenaksogra: I'm having weird problems that look like sync problems with the 'ati' driver; fglrx works fine on the same resolution01:49
ograinfinity, ah, thanks 01:49
infinity(And there probably never will be)01:49
ograyes 01:50
ogravery unlikely since ppc for home users will die ...01:50
ograinfinity, you could trigger a livefs build for edubuntu as soon as you have time for it btw, edubuntu-artwork is there now 01:51
ograKamion, do i have to poke you separately for install images ? 01:51
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infinityWhen I'm done with the ubuntu builds, I'll trigger edubuntu, but I won't wait around to see if they succeed.  It's 8 minutes to midnight here.01:52
ograinfinity, fine with me ...01:52
ograthanks 01:52
infinityogra: Note that these images won't rsync from the last ones (switching from cloop to squashfs), so you're in for a big download.01:53
ograoki01:53
ograthe last working ones were around flight2 anyway ... 01:54
Treenakscool, a Dutch library has 'Ubuntu CDs' in their catalog, and when you go there, they just give you a fresh set of Breezy discs :)01:55
ograwow01:55
Treenaksogra: instead of charging you for it, and asking them back, that is :)01:55
ogracool01:55
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pittiANNOUNCE: malone/launchpad discussion meeting in #launchpad now02:01
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Kamioninfinity: don't trigger edubuntu please02:01
ograstill something missing ? 02:02
Kamionogra: debootstrap's broken at the moment due to a slightly-experimental change I made in debian-cd to save a bit of space; looking at whether it's easily fixable. in the meantime I'm not going to build more install CDs02:02
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ograok02:02
Kamion(no point)02:02
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infinityKamion: Oh.  Too late, but I won't trigger livecd builds, just let the filesystems go to waste when they're done.. <shrug>02:04
infinityKamion: Or, wait.  Do you mean "debootstrap is broken in the context of install CDs", or "it's broken, period"?02:05
infinityKamion: Cause I was just doing Live builds right now, not triggering install builds.02:06
Kamioninfinity: only in the context of install CDs02:06
infinityOkay, good.02:06
KamionI've decided to fiddle debian-cd in a different way02:06
infinityThen I'll let the live builds go on.02:06
infinityubuntu-live should be publishing shortly, and I'd like to get some testing while I'm in bed. :)02:06
infinity(Mithrandir said amd64 was okay, powerpc and i386 are dailying as we speak)02:06
ograinfinity, i'll do some live testing (so i can rsync from ubuntu-live later)02:07
infinityKay, I'll let you know when the publishing run is done...02:07
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infinityOkay, ubuntu-live ISOs should be published for all arches.02:13
infinityhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/02:14
=== ogra wgets ...
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infinity(rsync works too)02:18
ograi know, but my last ubuntu liove iso also dates back to flight202:18
infinityOh, no, I didn't mean "they'll rsync well over other ISOs", I just meant "you can download with rsync"...02:21
infinityMostly, I'm just paranoid about wget screwing up my download. :)02:21
infinity(but you can wget, then check MD5SUMs, I guess, then rsync to fix if it's broken.. <shrug>)02:21
ograyup02:22
ograi already have two rsyncs running, so i resort to wget for more images :)02:22
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mdkeinfinity, any luck with ubuntu-docs?02:30
infinityI've been swamped, I'm sorry. :/02:30
mdkeyeah, np I can see :)02:31
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infinityI have a big note here, telling me that it's important.  It's just one or two bullet points below some other things on that same note.02:31
mdkeinfinity, ok, in that case I'll stop nudging for a while :)02:31
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infinityogra: Live filesystems for edubuntu built, livecd build running.  And from here on, I think you can expect radio silence from me (bed), so just keep refreshing http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/ until the timestamps get newer. :)02:35
ograi will, thanks and sleep tight 02:36
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sistpotyping mdz02:46
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infinityelmo : Can you sync mysql-dfsg-5.0 from Debian (or do an autosync run, which will catch it)?  Thanks.02:48
infinityogra: Those images are published, BTW.02:48
infinityelmo: Oh, nevermind, looks like you did a run when I wasn't looking.02:49
ograinfinity, and they llok good (size and report wise), thanks again ... and to bed with you02:49
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Riddellseb128: what's your thoughts on having avahi-daemon installed by default but turned off?03:00
seb128would be nice03:01
seb128we just need an easy way to turn it from the UI then03:01
ograand a big popup warning what its doing :)03:01
ssamseb128, how about a zeroconf tab in the network setting control panel03:03
Kamionogra: (you know that report.html is irrelevant for live CDs, right?)03:04
KamionI've been meaning to stop publishing that03:04
ograKamion, yes, but i'm so used to it :)03:04
sistpotyelmo: please sync ocamlcreal from unstable, ubuntu override ok. Thx.03:04
seb128ssam: yeah, could be a place for that03:04
Kamionogra: ok, well it's no longer published now03:06
ssamseb128, perhaps letting you choose which interfaces you want it on. you might want it for wireless, but not when you plug into your office network03:06
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ograKamion, great, so it wont fool me anymore :)03:06
Lathiatssam: unfortunatley that is not yet available in avahi03:07
Lathiatssam: short of using iptables03:07
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seb128ssam: it has been discussed on the zeroconf spec on the wiki03:09
seb128ssam: those points are mentionned IIRC03:10
ssamseb128, ok thanks03:11
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\shhmm..do we need avahi/zeroconf/scary magic for network and system administrators by default? I think it should be only for the brave users...03:22
Lathiat'network administrators' ?03:24
Lathiathow is that role defined within ubuntu?03:24
ograpeople that use more ubuntu-server than -desktop installs ?03:25
\shLathiat: the network admins have to close all incoming ports towards all workstations in the network to prevent any harm03:25
Lathiat\sh: its already decided that avahi has to be off by default so i dont really see point in this conversation anyway?03:25
\shand blocking all multicast addresses03:25
Lathiatblocking multicast on a local network is hardly going to make anything more secure03:26
Lathiatand not even possible on a switch?03:26
\shLathiat: with a normal 3com switch of course it's not possible..thinking about real life and expensive switches with router logic inside, it is possible03:27
Lathiattrue03:27
Lathiatthat really has nothing to do with whether its enabled on the PC tho03:27
Lathiatit just wont work if they block it03:27
Lathiati dont know anyone who blocks multicast accross their network tho for security03:28
Lathiatand avahi is LL so it wont cross routers anywhere where its most likely to be blocked03:28
\shLathiat: yes. that's why it should not be installed by default, because when there is no lighter to play with, there will be no fire03:28
Lathiat\sh: so why dont we not install firefox? they cant goto bad web pages then03:28
Lathiatmaybe skip network drivers? ;)03:29
\shLathiat: in coporate environments :)03:29
Lathiat\sh: corporate environements are customized03:29
Lathiatand usually dont give users root03:29
Lathiatso they couldnt turn it on in the first place03:29
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\shLathiat: okok...next time I use my live cd to turn it on :)03:30
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Lathiat\sh: and then its blocked at the switch? ;p03:30
Lathiat\sh: yo ucould do lots more damage with a livecd than use avahi :)03:30
Lathiatand avahi is coded to be fairly secure its not like its a big gaping security hole (im not saying it doesnt have any security bugs, odds are it does somewhere)03:31
\shLathiat: actually that's why most of the companies have more problems with the internal network then with external conncections :)03:31
Lathiatheh03:31
Lathiatmost companys just need to shoot their employees :)03:31
TreenaksLathiat: AND their customers!03:31
pittiLathiat: I reviewed the code for maybe 30 minutes, and I just found one obvious flaw, which I told lennart, and he fixed it in upstream cvs some hours later03:32
Lathiatpitti: i saw03:32
pittiLathiat: ah, yes, I remember03:32
Lathiatin fact we even discussed it :)03:32
pittithat doesn't mean that there are no bugs, but the code looks fairly sane03:32
Lathiatany which way, its off by default, turning it on isnt much harder than going and installing sshd and adding a user claled test/test03:33
Lathiatpitti: i said 'coded to be'.. 'not sayign it doesnt have any..' :)03:33
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pittiLathiat: right :)03:33
\shstarting VMS 03:33
Lathiattrying to say it doesnt have any security bugs would be silly :) just saying that its designed to be OK, we check data all about the place, and not just blindly accept things, so its not a 'gaping' hole :)03:33
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Lathiat having said that03:35
Lathiatwhats the bet someone finds a really big hole tomorrow :P)03:35
Lathiatgarrr03:36
Lathiatim hitting my P key again03:36
Lathiatim going to rip it out03:36
pittiLathiat: but then you couldn't type tongue smileys any more :-p03:41
Lathiatbut then i wouldnt look like a dickhead typing combination tongue-smile smileys :)03:42
=== desrt abuses Lathiat
Lathiatsee what i mean :(03:43
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pittihi desrt 03:45
=== pitti sighs on the utopia list
pittiI'm so sick and tired of discussing hald privileges03:45
desrtthis is why i didn't abuse you03:45
desrtyou've had enough abuse03:45
jk__what's the right place to tell how I got madwifi running in restricted WEP mode?03:46
pittielmo: please sync libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql and pmount03:46
pittidesrt: heh :)03:46
pittidesrt: I just wonder why I'm the only dickhead who wants to go that way03:47
\shjk__: #ubuntu :)03:47
desrtpitti; dude.  i'm with you.03:47
desrtpitti; you're the voice of reason and sanity03:47
=== pitti hugs desrt
desrti think there is _no doubt_ that hal has about a million holes in it03:47
desrtand allowing users to shoot strange command packets at it is only going to introduce more attack possibilities03:47
Treenaksdesrt: little ones, or huge, gaping ones?03:47
desrtat the same thing, moving the entire thing to run as root.... heh... are we morons?03:48
pittiTreenaks: not sure, but it took me about 30 seconds to find that you can probably own hald with a specially crafted mac partition signature on your usb stick 03:49
pittiTreenaks: (at least crash)03:50
Treenakspitti: whee.. sanity..03:50
pittiI phear the moment if somebody actually looks for holes in the code03:50
desrtand most hax0rs are more bored an an overworked ubuntu hacker :)03:50
pittiand I'm not even very experienced with finding holes03:51
TreenaksSo Ubuntu needs a few professional secuirty auditors? :)03:51
Treenaks-typo03:51
desrtwell03:51
desrta trivial workaround is available03:51
desrtDON'T RUN HALD AS ROOT03:51
desrt-ahem-03:51
\shthose people can be really expensive :)03:51
pittidesrt: shiny idea, go tell upstream :)03:51
pittiTreenaks: still, security auditing can never hurt, but please one hole at a time :)03:52
=== desrt has code in hald
jk__\sh: Tell, not ask. I was hoping for something less ephemeral than irc03:52
=== desrt certainly didn't make any above-average effort to make sure it was hax0r-proof
desrtand i know a lot of the other hal contributors aren't as talented as i am :p03:52
janimopitti, aren't there tools already to find typical bugs like the alloc() one you just sent to the hal list?03:53
Riddellinfinity: I'm probably being impatient here but do you know why kdelibs -0ubuntu8 isn't listed in dapper.all.i386? uploaded an hour Ago03:53
janimobesides grep :)03:53
\shjk__: wiki.ubuntu.com03:53
pittijanimo: I used advanced static code analysis03:53
pittijanimo: (a.k.a. 'grep')03:53
desrtwoh03:53
janimoyour brain? 03:53
desrtoh.03:53
desrti know that method!03:53
\shjk__: to have your experiences written down :) and archived forever :)03:53
jk__:-)03:54
pittijanimo: but yes, there are tools to find the common holes; I never used them, though (although I would like to)03:54
pittijanimo: in fact some of the recently discovered holes were discovered by these systems03:55
pittijanimo: in experienced hands, they can be really powerful03:55
desrthmm03:55
=== desrt should find out
=== pitti goes back to fix cups
desrthax0r/slashing is one of the pieces missing from my skillset03:56
\shso..bbl...03:57
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Riddellpitti: how come CUPS browsing is off by default?04:13
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Robot101Riddell: aren't all network services off by default?04:13
desrtRobot101; that's not really a valid way of approaching it :)04:14
desrtRobot101; since it's only bound to localhost but still the interface is disabled04:14
desrtRiddell; you mean the web interface, or ...?04:14
Robot101the localhost:631 is not the same as browsing for printers04:15
desrtk.  i'm probably wrong then :)04:15
Robot101although I agree, both disabling and binding to localhost is quite annoying04:15
Robot101just the latter would be sufficient for me04:15
desrtit prevents abuse by people not in the printer admin group04:15
desrtbut the gnome cups utilities are nowhere near as functional as the web interface :(04:15
Robot101er, you need to log in to effect any changes04:15
Riddell...knowing little as I do about CUPS. I'm just passing on a query04:16
Riddellbrowsing sounds like searching the network not opening any ports04:16
jdubRiddell: not the way CUPS works04:16
jdubRiddell: it listens for broadcasts04:16
jdub(bong like SMB!)04:16
Riddellright, and like dnssd04:17
Robot101even if it only sent out queries and listened for responses, it could still potentially be exploited with malicious responses04:17
janimois new cups supposed to autoconfigure usb printers?04:17
sivangRiddell: if you use g-c-m to enable this, you will be prompted to confirm opening port 639 on your machine04:17
Robot101hence off is a good plan.04:17
janimoi.e no need for setting them up with g-c-m?04:17
MithrandirRobot101: so can web browsers, etc.04:17
Robot101Mithrandir: yes, but not without the user knowing04:17
jdubjanimo: i don't think we have the red hat changes to do that yet04:18
pittijanimo: no, we aren't quite that far04:23
janimoplanned for dapper?04:23
pittijanimo: mainly because selecting the correct driver is not trivial04:23
pittijanimo: no, completely automatic is not even spec'ed04:23
pittijanimo: we wanted to make it much easier than it is now, though04:23
sivangpitti: IIRC upstream were going to take care of that, no?04:24
pittisivang: automatic conf? no, they won't04:24
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sivangpitti: ah sorry, got confused with automatic detection...04:25
janimois there a printing spec for dapper with the improvements vs breezy written up?04:26
janimoplanned improvements that is04:26
pittiyes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticPrinterConfiguration04:27
janimogot it thanks04:27
janimoLP does not have search for specs right?04:27
janimo I always load up the whole page then look in it04:27
janimotakes quite a bit04:27
Riddellinfinity: ignore me, I was being impatient04:27
Lathiathrm, what happened to unrar-nonfree04:28
Mithrandirit was renamed to unrar04:28
Mithrandirand unrar to unrar-free04:28
Lathiaterr04:29
Lathiati dont see either?04:29
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pittiunrar-free |  1:0.0.1-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages04:29
pittiunrar-free |  1:0.0.1-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources04:29
tsengunrar is broken because its trying to go into non-free04:29
tsengnot overridden into multiverse04:29
janimopitti, what about PrinterSharing, does not seem approved04:29
Lathiatah04:29
pittijanimo: we don't have manpower to tackle either spec so far04:29
Lathiatpitti: umm, i only see sources04:30
Lathiatpitti: do you have it installed?04:30
Lathiattseng: do i have to ask elmo to fix that?04:30
janimoI wonder if I can help, I'll look at these specs04:30
tsengLathiat: yes04:30
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pittiLathiat: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/unrar-free/ -> it's really, really there04:31
pittiLathiat: and yes, apt-get install unrar-free WFM04:31
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=== Lathiat boggles
Lathiati have dapper{,-updates,-security} main universe multiverse restricted and i dont have a binary for it04:32
Lathiati must be doing something silly04:32
pittiLathiat: what does 'apt-cache madison unrar-free' say for you?04:33
Lathiat[lathiat@qaplaH lathiat] % apt-cache madison unrar-nonfree04:33
Lathiatunrar-nonfree | 1:3.5.2-0.1 | ftp://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Sources04:33
Lathiat[lathiat@qaplaH lathiat] %04:33
pittiand -free?04:33
pitti(nonfree is fucked, we already know that)04:33
Lathiatunrar-free |  1:0.0.1-2 | ftp://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages04:33
Lathiatunrar-free |  1:0.0.1-2 | ftp://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources04:33
Lathiatwell, nonfree is what im trying to sort out04:33
Lathiatsince the free version doesnt unrar pretty much anything i want it too04:34
pittiah, ok, I wondered about <Lathiat> i dont see either?04:34
ogra_ibookso you want unrar now :)04:34
Lathiatwell04:34
Lathiati didnt realise it was called -free04:34
Lathiati cant see 'unrar' or 'unrar-nonfree'04:34
Lathiat'as binary04:34
Lathiatso i need to mail elmo and say that unrar-nonfree needs to be overridden into multiverse?04:35
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pittiLathiat: hm, 'unrar' rather, right?04:35
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Lathiaterr04:36
Lathiatah ok04:36
Lathiatwell04:36
Lathiatno04:36
hungerapt-get install unrar gets me a note informing me that apt will install unrar-nonfree instead.04:36
Lathiatactually yes04:36
Lathiati thin04:36
Lathiatsource is unrar-nonfree04:36
Lathiatbinary is unrar04:36
Lathiathunger: mine says its not available04:37
hungerLathiat: Yeap, after purging unrar-nonfree I get that message.04:37
Lathiatright04:38
hungerLathiat: unrar-free does install here though... but it does not really unrar much.04:38
Lathiathunger: exactly what i said above :)04:38
Lathiatits fairly useless04:38
hungerLathiat: Right.04:38
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janimowhere is the specs current status for dapper in the wiki?(colors, estimated times etc)04:42
sivangjanimo: this is now in LP, IIRC04:46
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pittijdub, desrt, sjoerd: I'd appreciate your opinion on the utopia list, so that the guys see that I'm not the only weirdo here :)05:10
janimopitti, yeah you;re quite outnumbered there :)05:12
janimobtw the spec says try eggcups early in the cycle. has that happened?05:13
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pittijanimo: no, this spec was just assigned to me because nobody else wanted it; but ENOTIME from my side05:14
janimook05:14
pittijanimo: if you are interested in improving printer support, we'd appreciate05:14
pittiit badly needs love05:14
janimoI am interested05:14
pittiI can keep up with fixing the most horrible cups bugs, but not with adding features05:14
janimoall my friends give me the weird looks when using ubuntu and printing issues is one of the reasons :)05:15
pittijanimo: sad, but true05:15
jdubpitti, janimo: that's going to involve cups patches and stuff too :(05:15
tsengpitti: its hard to sound crazy when you give such specific examples05:15
janimodid RH have it fixed or we'd have to do more work beside what they have?05:16
pittijanimo: there are handfuls of cupsys bugs in bz, fedora's hal-cups-utils (and it's g-v-m integration) needs a look05:16
janimomeans I'll have to install gnome :)05:16
janimook then05:16
pittijdub: certainly; what's wrong with patching cups? (well, ok, upstream is not really accepting patches, but still...)05:16
pittijanimo: not for triaging cupsys bugs and for hal-cups-utils05:17
pittijanimo: if the current system would at least be less buggy, it would already help a lot05:17
janimosure, but I want to look at the ui side too05:17
pittijanimo: merely installing gnome-cups-manager should do; you don't actually need the whole gnome05:17
pittiit talks to cups and configues it, and you can manage jobs with it05:17
pittii. e. it doesn't talk to many other gnome stacks05:18
janimoyeah, but I will do it anyway (laptop-testing team :) and want to see if something like g-c-m can be written for xfce05:18
DizietSo in python I have a list containing several lists.  How do I flatten it into one big list ?05:20
sivangjanimo: I might be able to put some help for small fixes, and gui changes if you like help :) I did the gui part of the "Enable LAN printer detection" ubuntu patch in g-c-m.05:20
DizietI don't seem to be able to find the standard library function to do this.05:20
janimosivang, ok :)05:21
DizietI could roll my own with reduce but surely it should be in the library ?05:21
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pittiDiziet: lemme look in my 'Python Cookbook', 1.12 "Flattening a nested sequence"05:21
jdubpitti: stuff to maintain, work to do, changes to test... usual gumpf :)05:22
DizietWhy oh why oh why is everything so difficult in Python ?05:22
pittijdub: yes, today is not my best 'upstream love' day either05:22
janimoDiziet, I think ff needs to depend on libnss305:22
janimofor https access to work05:22
Dizietjanimo: You have a system with no libnss3 ?  Well done :-).05:23
DizietBut seriously, yes, it should.  Doesn't it ?  If not, please file a bug.05:23
janimoDiziet, it needs to be depended upon to be installed ;)05:23
janimoI did file a bug two days ago05:23
DizietOh, right.  Well, I'm not working on ff this week.  I'm wrestling with a very silly programming language instead.05:23
=== Diziet gives up and uses reduce.
pittiDiziet: no standard lib for that, you need to write your own function05:24
=== jdub defends pitti's honour on utopia-list
janimoruby has Array#flatten :)05:25
janimotoo bad it wasn't around when thawte was founded ;)05:25
sjoerdpitti: i'm quite far with a patch for hal, so that it uses a helper running as root to invoke programs05:28
=== pitti hugs sjoerd
sivangDiziet: do you have anything to say in favor or, against dropping users' home directory suggestions and instead just letting a user add dirs he wants to backup (re: HomeUserBackup)05:29
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sjoerdpitti: first version should be finished tomorrow evening or maybe even tonight :)05:30
Dizietsivang: Err, what would it do by default ?05:34
DizietI think it is more important that it backs up users home directories by default than that there is any way to configure what it backs up.05:35
sivangDiziet: by default I will make it check /home , if it finds it, it backes up everything underneath is that has an /etc/passwd entry. If not, I am thinking of letting the user specify the home toplevel. "I couldn't identify where users' homes are stored. Please choose the home toplevel"05:38
sivangDiziet: bad, drop the passwd bit. home can also be /users/s/sivan...05:39
Kamionwhy not just go through the home directory fields for non-system users in /etc/passwd, then?05:40
jdubhrm, 'tis a pity lenovo's recent lappies don't have DVI ports05:41
sivangKamion: hmm.. good point. thanks, I hope there's a nice and easy way API to walk through /etc/passwd ;-)05:41
ogra_ibookis this a single user app ?05:42
sivangogra_ibook: the backup one?05:42
ogra_ibookthe $HOME should suffice 05:42
ogra_ibooks/the/then05:42
Dizietogra: No, bad idea.05:42
sivangogra_ibook: if you're not an admin that can sudo, it's going to let you backup only your home05:43
ogra_ibooksivang, yes05:43
DizietRight.05:43
sivangogra_ibook: if you are, then backup all homes.05:43
sivangor at least, offer to backup all homes05:43
DizietBut having things accidentally left out of a backup is very bad.05:43
ogra_ibookgood, whats wrong with that ? 05:43
sivangwrong with using $HOME? 05:43
ogra_ibookwrong with $HOME only, for non admin users05:44
DizietErr, if you're just doing this user then $HOME is right but that shouldn't be the default for the admin user.05:44
ogra_ibooktrue05:44
ogra_ibookthats why i asked if its a single user app05:44
DizietAny sensible language will have an easy way to iterate over users in the passwd database.05:44
sivangDiziet: :)05:46
DizietIf you tell us what you're using we can probably produce a reference :-).05:46
sivangDiziet:heh, once I found it, I will tell you.05:47
Kamionsivang: getpwent05:47
jdubmmm, can't wait to see the T60p05:48
sivangah, Kamion , always fast as a snap :)05:48
Kamionit's in the python pwd module05:48
Kamion(getpwall there)05:48
=== sivang experiments in ipython with that
Kamionhttp://docs.python.org/lib/module-pwd.html05:49
Gagatanipython is teh sweetness05:49
sivangGagatan: word :)05:50
sivangKamion: I usually print the docstrings in ipython, for quick simple stuff this is quite enough docs to get started.05:50
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DizietOh, I meant, what language.05:51
sivangDiziet: oh, sorry. I thought it was taken for granted it's python.05:52
DizietYers.  Don't get me started again :-).05:53
=== sivang now looks for the "what uid am I running with" module.function.
KeybukRiddell: if someone installs kubuntu-desktop, but kdm still logs them into gnome, what do they need to fiddle?06:04
Dizietos.getuid() etc.06:05
KinnisonKeybuk: a quick fix is probably to delete ~/.dmrc06:05
KinnisonKeybuk: Otherwise they need to find how to tell kdm to use the kde session06:05
Riddellyes, ~/.dmrc or click the Session menu same as in gdm06:07
sivangjdub: that's nice, Ubuntu appears on http://www.python.org/Jobs.html ;-)06:07
Keybukare you sure the session menu didn't get removed in one of seb's "that's useful, get rid of it" purges? <g>06:07
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Keybukwho's good at art?06:11
Keybukwe need a "mom" hackergotchi on launchpad06:12
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pittiKeybuk: ask jdub for the 'mom' part :)06:14
mgalvinMithrandir: might there be any more info about live cd persistance anywhere?06:15
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Mithrandirmgalvin: there's a little bit in my blog, but no, there are no docs yet.06:15
mgalvini saw that, ok, thanks06:16
Mithrandirmgalvin: basically, make a file system on something the live cd initramfs will see, make sure it's label is "casper-cow" and make sure persistence is turned on in the boot menu06:16
Mithrandirmgalvin: I'd _love_ to get testing and feedback on how it works, since I've just tested that it works at all. :-)06:17
sivangKeybuk: mom is getting a launchpad account? :)06:17
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mgalvinMithrandir: are there any specific size requirements, will a 128MB usb key be fine?06:18
Keybuksivang: mom has one now06:18
Keybukhttps://launchpad.net/people/mom-ubuntu06:18
sivangKeybuk: why does it need a launchpad account?06:19
Keybukso shean file bugs06:19
sivangah, right, cool06:19
Mithrandirmgalvin: it'll work, but it'll naturally limit the size of the changes you can do.06:19
Keybukmom has a bugzilla account for the same reason06:20
sivangKeybuk: I knew it had, didn't notice it's been filing merge bugs in bugzilla last time06:20
mgalvinMithrandir: right ok, cool, i'll give it a try in a bit and let you know how it goes :)06:20
Mithrandirmgalvin: also, if you want to write some user docs, that'd be great, since I suck at that.  I can always document something along the lines of what I wrote above, but it's not exactly easy for non-techies to understand06:21
Yagisansorry for bothering, but I'm preparing a test patch to build 32bit compatibility packages for amd64, on i386, and wanted to know if it is ok to put -march=k8 in the cflags, or will the buildds have trouble with that ?06:21
ulaashow can i force a cdrom eject06:21
ulaasmy dvd drive is eating my starwars disc06:22
Yagisanulaas: paperclip in the little hole ?06:22
ulaasi hope to find an elegant solution :)06:22
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Mithrandirulaas: eject /dev/hdc ?06:23
ulaaswell busy06:23
ulaasahhh there it spit it out06:24
mgalvinMithrandir: the first notes about it from me will be on DapperFlight3, i'll put together a seperate user level wiki page about it too06:25
ulaasnow there goes the second question. is there a way to fix a dvd which is not perfectly a "disc" shape.06:25
Mithrandirmgalvin: thanks.  Feel free to Cc me if there's anything you want proofread06:26
dilingerulaas: scissors?06:26
mgalvinMithrandir: k, thanks06:26
Mithrandirulaas: turn down the speed of the DVD/CDROM drive06:26
ulaasdilinger, well thats a last resort06:26
ulaasMithrandir, hmm that sounds like an idea06:27
ulaasMithrandir, commands?06:27
Mithrandirsetcd - Control the behaviour of your cdrom device06:27
MithrandirI'd guess06:27
dilingerulaas: machete?06:28
ulaasdilinger, you are a warrior arent you? ;)06:29
dilingeronly with petulant dvds06:31
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ulaasdilinger, mine is like cone :) i wonder how did this got out QA.06:32
segfaultHow the LiveCD will save its state? Create some file in the user's partition?06:33
ulaasdilinger, i am gonna glue a blank cd on top of it. want to know the result?06:34
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Kamionsegfault: usb stick06:36
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segfaulthumm, nice.06:38
=== Kamion climbs slowly over the squashfs live CD rsync hump
ogralucky you ... my DSL is still glowing ...06:39
Kamionso's mine, 20 minutes to go06:39
ogra1:20 06:39
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Mithrandirsegfault: it needs a writable partition with the right label.  It can, in theory, be on anything (as long as the initramfs can see it)06:51
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segfaultit wont erase the usb stick, right?06:54
Keybukbrb reboot06:55
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seb128see you later mvo07:27
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wasabihttp://chir.ag/stuff/sand/07:33
sivangseb128: how was the swim?07:35
seb128fine07:36
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Mithrandirsegfault: no, it won't erase the usb stick, apart if you put something in directories the boot erases, like /var/run or /var/lock07:42
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makoi wanted to fix some errors on the website but my access seems to have not have carried over with the latest software transition.. who should i talk to?07:56
Burgworkmako, hendrik (hno73)07:56
makoBurgwork: i already thought of that.. i was hoping you'd say someone who was around :)07:58
makoalright07:58
tsenghi mako 07:58
makotseng: hola07:58
Burgworkmako, afaik, there is nobody else with write access, including any doc team members (a bug that should be fixed)07:58
makoBurgwork: who else should?07:59
makoBurgwork: if you send me a list of uncontroversial additions, i can try to get a whole batch done with one motion :)07:59
Burgworkmako, I haven't looked much because I know I can't edit it. Let me think about it.08:00
Burgworkmako, I guess we really should redirect http://ubuntu.com/community/participate to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu=08:01
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makoBurgwork: well, i'm going to do it anyway.. i'll put down you, mdke...08:01
mdkeo.o08:01
makoBurgwork: or the other way around :)08:01
makothe participate page is much larger08:02
Burgworkmako, as long as someone can keep updating the participate page08:02
makobut it should probably be in a wiki08:02
makowell, that's exactluy the page i was trying to update :)08:02
Burgworkmako, the objective was for Helping to be short and fix up the 2nd stage pages08:02
Burgworkso that new people don't get bogged down in a lot of text and random things to do08:02
=== mako nods
mdkemako, elmo probably hands out website access, i would have thought08:03
makok08:03
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Burgworkmdke, I don't think so, because hendrik did the move over08:04
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mdkelemme see08:04
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mdkeanyone with access to wikiconfig.py08:05
Znarlmdke : I have access.08:06
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siretartelmo: please sync sdcv_0.4.1-1/unstable overriding ubuntu changes08:07
mdkemako, ^^ Znarl is your man then :)08:08
makook.. wait a second08:08
mdkeZnarl, can you do docteam svn accounts too?08:08
Znarlmako : Please email rt@admin.canonical.com your access requests.08:09
ogra_ibookKamion, wow, you ripped out the annoying part from the partitioner :)08:12
slomo_elmo: please sync gazpacho from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped08:26
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ogra_ibookhmm, edubuntu ltsp building fails ... 08:29
ogra_ibookKamion, did something in debootstrap change ? i suddenly get an archive.ubuntu.com line in the client chroot without having network (which fails on CD only installs indeed)08:31
ogra_ibooks/line/line in sources.list/08:31
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Burgworkinfinity, can you pass with information to pitti, if you see him before I do? http://www.mozillazine.org/articles/article7895.html (regarding security patcches for FF 1.0.x  series)08:43
ogra_ibookdebootstrap (0.3.1.9ubuntu1) : * Create a default sources.list for apt. (Closes: Bug#283234, Bug#315225)08:44
=== ogra_ibook cries
ogra_ibookoh that was 0.3.2 ... wrong version ..08:45
=== \sh comforts ogra_ibook
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lucas*** MOTU meeting on #ubuntu-meeting NOW! ***08:59
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mdkeelmo, Znarl, pretty pretty please can you expedite the docteam svn access request for LaserJock?09:03
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mdkeanyone reproduce this: opening a file with "Open with Other Application" crashes nautilus. 100% reproducible here09:32
seb128it's fixed since yesterday09:32
mdkeah great09:32
seb128update your libgnomevfs2-0 package09:32
mdkethanks seb09:32
seb128np09:32
ulaasany issues with gamin?09:35
seb128ulaas: what?09:36
seb128the gnome-vfs bug?09:36
seb128no an issue with the gnome-vfs inotify implementation09:37
ulaasi got a dialog when i first launched in gnome session09:37
ulaaspressed ok quickly by mistake09:37
ulaasit was saying ssmthing about gamin/fam though09:38
ulaasand i get nautilus crash whenever i rightclick-properties to follow size onf a downloading file.09:39
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ulaashmm prbably thats what i have09:40
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RiddellKamion,mdz: please promote kdnssd to main09:45
ogra_ibookKamion, same postgresql locale problem as with flight2 :(09:45
dshas anyone brought up the idea of shipping debug symbols by default with ubuntu packages?  /me is getting tired of getting empty backtraces from users09:46
ogra_ibookpitti, ^^^09:46
=== ogra_ibook tries a workstation install
pittiogra_ibook: hm, locales are all back into the 'locales' package09:47
pittiogra_ibook: so it seems that /etc/environment wants to use a locale that isn't installed?09:47
ogra_ibooki have the same locales error09:47
pittids: yes, indeed09:48
ogra_ibookand postgres failing with the same eroor09:48
pittids: we plan this since ages, but we never got round to actually implement it completely09:48
Burgworkds, would doing so increase the size of the download/archive?09:48
ogra_ibookpitti, sorry, already trying the next install, i'll go for the prob details later 09:48
pittids, Burgwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports, feel free to comment09:48
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dsBurgwork: not so much.  90% of the debug information I find useful is the name of the function in the backtrace, which is only a tiny fraction of the debug information09:55
dsBurgwork: so my personal opinion is: put that info into every package, regardless09:56
dsother info, like source files, line numbers, etc., is nice, but takes more bytes09:56
Burgworkds, ok, just wondered why they were not turned on by default. I seem to remember some sort of debian policy09:58
dsit is09:59
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lamontseb128: pinbg10:02
seb128lamont: ponbg10:02
lamontany reason not to sync sid's pilot link?10:02
ogra_ibookbackground communication :)10:02
=== lamont is testing it right now to see if it fixes his sync problem
lamontseb128: it's currently "merge needed"10:03
lamontif we merged it, the only thing I see it possibly wanting is a Build-dep change from python (>=2.3) to python (>=2.4)10:03
lamontwhich will happen automatically on the buildds10:03
seb128I don't know, that's universe stuff10:04
seb128ask a motu ... :)10:04
lamontOTOH, it doesn't fix my sync problem though...10:04
lamontpilot-link is main10:04
lamontnfc why, figured it was for evo or something10:04
seb128$ apt-cache show pilot-link | grep Filename10:04
seb128Filename: pool/universe/p/pilot-link/pilot-link_0.11.8-17_i386.deb10:04
lamontoh. hrm.10:05
crimsunsource is in main, though.10:05
seb128libpisock8 is used for main10:05
lamontseb128: doh.10:05
lamontok10:05
lamontlibpisock9 comes with the upgrade to current10:05
pittiBurgwork: debian policy is to compile with -O2 -g, and strip debug symbols, unless you build a package with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip,noopt10:05
lamontseb128: so source is main10:05
seb128I don't know pilot-link and I don't have any device to play with that sorry10:05
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seb128right10:06
lamontand out-of-date needs-merged10:06
lamontI'm tempted to just have it sync'ed then...10:06
seb128lamont: I'll have a look now, a min10:06
seb128pitti: do you know what the IPP messages are defined?10:06
pittiseb128: EPARSE10:07
seb128for  "** (gnome-cups-manager:7075): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030" by example10:07
seb128what is 103010:07
Burgworkpitti, I am just reading a good thread between jdub and marilliat in 2002 regarding gnome2. It strikes me as insane optimization10:07
pittiseb128: oh, I see; no, I'd have to debug it10:07
seb128ok10:07
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lamontseb128: the specific issue is that resources > 64KB on the palm are (1) out of spec according to the palmos spec, (2) existant, and (3) require(d?) changes in pilot-link API to deal with the reality.10:08
seb128API changes are not nice10:09
lamontmy Palm T|X being an example of something that doesn't believe that 64k should be the limit.  damn developers anyway.10:09
lamonthaven't looked, but given that the current package doesn't fix that problem, I'm betting that the API changes are still a bit out.10:09
lamontseb128: in any case, we shouldn't ship breezy's pilot-link in favor of sid's without a good reason...10:14
seb128lamont: current dapper version is the debian one10:16
lamontsigh10:16
lamontpkgs.debian.org is not talking, so I forgot about experimental.10:16
lamontwhich must be where the others (prerelease all) live.10:17
=== dilinger pokes around at http://www.opensuse.org/AppArmor_Detail
ogra_ibookGAH10:31
ogra_ibookwrong edubuntu-artwork version in the isos 10:32
fabbionedilinger: that's the result of lazyness10:33
dilingerfabbione: hm?10:33
fabbionedilinger: clearly.. developers can't write code.. so let's make them even more lazy, creating a tool that will attempt to keep them secure10:33
fabbionetsk10:33
dilingerfabbione: nah, i like the concept10:34
fabbionedilinger: nah.. developers should learn to write.. :P10:34
fabbionehmmm10:34
fabbionei am also a developer..10:34
fabbionedilinger: when are you uploading that? ;)10:34
dilingeri liked it in the st jude model, which had a learning mode and enforced exec() calls from one binary to another.. i liked it in grsecurity, w/ its acl checks , and i like it here10:35
Burgworkdilinger, so apparmour solves the issue with selinux of needing to create a seperate policy for  everything?10:35
dilingeri don't particularly like selinux10:35
dilingerfabbione: i'm considering it10:35
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dholbachgood night guys10:42
pittinight dholbach 10:42
dholbachnight Martin10:43
dilingerpitti: i'm curious if you've looked at it at all10:43
pittiselinux?10:43
dilingerpitti: app armor10:43
=== pitti only knows grsecurity
pittidilinger: no, I didn't10:43
dilingersee the opensuse link i posted10:43
Kamionogra_ibook: sorry, what annoying bit about the partitioner?10:44
Burgworkpitti, http://www.mozillazine.org/articles/article7895.html (regarding security patcches for FF 1.0.x  series)10:44
ogra_ibookKamion, the part that asked "do you *really* not want to use the partitions you marked not to be used" :)10:45
Kamionogra_ibook: I don't think that's changed; perhaps you did something different with the combination of the use method and the mount point10:46
KamionRiddell: kdnssd promoted10:46
RiddellKamion: thanks10:46
ogra_ibooknope10:46
ogra_ibooki always had it in breezy10:46
pittidilinger: heh, this indeed reminds me of the grsecurity policies, although these were mightier10:46
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ogra_ibooki always have at least 2 partitions i mark "dont use"10:47
pittiBurgwork: cool, that means that upstream supports 1.0.x as long as we support it in Breezy :)10:48
pittiBurgwork: thanks for the link10:48
Burgworkpitti, np10:48
pittiBurgwork: or, wait, do they mean 'from last November'? hmm10:48
Kamionogra_ibook: you don't need to mark partitions explicitly to make them not be used10:48
Burgworkpitti, I think they mean 2005, which means your hosed I'm afraid10:49
Kamionyou only need to say "keep and use existing data" if you want to assign it a mount point as well10:49
pittishit10:49
Kamionthat's what the partitioner was complaining about; you said "keep and use" without a mount point10:49
Kamion(without proof, but I'm fairly sure)10:49
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pittidilinger: looks nice, though, as an LSM it's easier to support10:50
ogra_ibookit doesnt anymore10:50
ogra_ibookKamion, but much worse, i have the return of the locales bug here :(10:50
Kamionok, wasn't me who changed it10:51
ogra_ibookand the edubuntu-artwork package is -1110:51
Kamionogra_ibook: I need to go do other things right now, but could you put /var/log/syslog from the installer somewhere I can get it?10:51
ogra_ibook(should be -14) i wonder how that happened10:51
Burgworkpitti, you realize that 6 months means both breezy and hoary, no?10:51
Kamionold install CD?10:51
ogra_ibookKamion, will do... first i'll finish the tests ... workstation install x86 is fine already10:51
pittiBurgwork: Yes, I'm looking forward to tell mdz that we need to put 1.5 into hoary :/10:52
ogra_ibooki download /current/ ....10:52
=== ogra_ibook looks at the link
KamionI've turned off the cdimage cron jobs for now, BTW, but I'm rebuilding kubuntu/install and edubuntu/install by hand now10:52
Burgworkpitti, lets just say I don't envy your job right now10:52
RiddellKamion: can you wait until I update kubuntu-meta?10:52
KamionRiddell: no, too late10:52
KamionRiddell: I can certainly rebuild later, though10:52
Riddellok10:53
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Kamionogra_ibook: I did try to adapt localechooser for the new locale-gen syntax, but it's possible I got it wrong, and I'm afraid I didn't test that change much10:59
ogra_ibooki'll look into it ...10:59
Kamionlog-output -t localechooser chroot /target /usr/sbin/locale-gen "$LOCALE"10:59
Kamionlog-output -t localechooser chroot /target /usr/sbin/locale-gen $EXTRAS10:59
Kamionit just does that now10:59
ogra_ibookcurrently i'm just runnnig through the testcycle once10:59
ogra_ibooklater i'll revisit the noted bugs11:00
mdzpitti: ...11:03
RiddellKamion: I made a bunch of changes to the language packs in kubuntu ship today but kubuntu-meta isn't picking them up, any idea why?11:03
Kamionthere's no metapackage for ship11:05
Kamionand no need for one11:05
Riddellaah, of course11:06
pittimdz: nevermind, I'm sure that fabbione has some Sizilian friends who can convince the mozilla guys to support it until 2007 :)11:08
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fabbionepitti: what do i need to do my friend... you know that i can do everything for you11:09
ogra_ibookfabbione, send some people to mozilla foundation headquaters :)11:10
pittifabbione: in http://www.mozillazine.org/articles/article7895.html, we need to do s/6 months/18 months/ :)11:10
sistpotymdz: do you have orphaned mythplugins/should I set the maintainer to a motu-team on next upload?11:10
mdzsistpoty: I'm hoping that the packages will be adopted by someone; I can't maintain them anymore11:10
mdzI don't use mythtv11:10
mdzdue to not watching television anymore11:11
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sistpotymdz: ok, then I'll set maintainership to motumedia, if you don't disagree with that ;)11:11
Burgworkmdke, no time or no interest?11:11
mdzsistpoty: sounds good11:11
fabbionesistpoty: you better be sure that package will work REALLY well11:11
mdzBurgwork: both11:11
sistpotyk, thx 11:11
sistpotyfabbione: he, I'm just touching mythplugins... crimsun is the one to blame for mythtv soon ;)11:12
fabbionesistpoty: because i use it.. and if it breaks you can ask slomo.. i can become unpleaseant when i can't watch dvd/tv11:12
fabbione:)11:12
sistpotyhehe11:12
=== sistpoty better tests thoroughly
mdzBurgwork: I used to use mythtv regularly, and so created the packages and maintained them for some time.  however I have since cancelled my cable TV service and have no real use for it anymore, even if I had time to spend on the packages11:12
mdzfabbione: maybe you want to become the new maintainer?11:13
fabbionemdz: no no.. i prefer to use the cluebat on MOTU's.. it's more fun :)11:13
fabbionemdz: more seriously.. i use it as a user.. i don't want to become the slave of my dvd player11:14
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fabbioneotherwise i will be soon maintaing 3/4 of Ubuntu myself :)11:14
fabbionesistpoty: but i will take notes .... slomo -> xine, crimsun -> mythtv, you the plugins..11:16
=== sistpoty hides behind slomo and crimsun
sistpoty*g+11:16
fabbionesistpoty: speaking of which... there is at least mythphone and another plugin that are in the source, but compiled/installed/shipper11:16
fabbioneshipped11:16
fabbioneplan to fix it?11:16
=== fabbione switch to real bitching mode :P
sistpotyfabbione: I'm planning/having a fix already which makes the individual myth* go away and build all from mythplugins (as it's done upstream wise)11:17
ogra_ibookmdz, debootstrap installs a default sources list now ... which breaks the building of the thin clients on install 11:17
Kamionmy inclination there is that ltsp should trash the sources.list if that's appropriate for it11:18
KamionI think debootstrap's new behaviour is better in the common case11:18
Kamionit used to be very annoying that it didn't set up a sources.list for you11:18
fabbionesistpoty: mythplugins is already in multiverse, packaged that way11:18
ogra_ibookKamion, mdz, thats what i wanted to ask :) 11:18
fabbionesistpoty: you need to build mythphone and the other one i can't remember.. and package them.11:18
fabbionesistpoty: the source is tehre already11:18
ogra_ibookKamion, the other option would have been to add an option to debootstrap11:19
ogra_ibook(to supress the default sources.list)11:19
sistpotyfabbione: as I wrote, I alread have a fix at hand which does this ;)... but I'll test it again and upload then11:19
fabbioneok11:20
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hileany kernel packagers? I just filed a trivial bug for 2.6.15-x kernels, #22351 11:22
hilejust wanted to ask if there is any reason _not_ set number of UARTs from 4 to 8 (see bug for details)11:22
Kamionogra_ibook: I guess that's possible11:23
Kamionbut I'd need to talk with aj to make sure we pick the same option name as Debian; for now I recommend hacking it in ltsp somewhere, I think11:24
hileand btw, anyone using encrypted root filesystems, I've got new initramfs-cryptsetup package ready (still not yet in repositories, just in http://ner.dy.fi/deb/ - read sources and build from scratch, it's quite trivial)11:24
ogra_ibookKamion, yes, but i dont think anybody else benefits from such an option in debootstrap and a simple rm in ltsp-client-builder will do as well11:24
ogra_ibookso i'll go this path if mdz doesnt object11:25
lamontdaniels: ping11:25
Kamionright11:25
crimsunhile: redirect to #ubuntu-kernel11:25
hileoh, there's such channel as well11:25
ogra_ibookmdz, any objection to add a rm for the sources.list to ltsp-build-client ? 11:27
mdzogra_ibook: why does a pre-existing sources.list break it?11:28
mdzI thought it installed its own sources.list anyway11:28
ogra_ibookmdz, because on non networked machines you have the default archive.ubuntu.com entry11:29
mdzltsp-build-client should be creating a fresh sources.list without regard for whether one exists11:29
ogra_ibookmdz, yes, it did, until deboostrap started shipping and installing one by default :)11:29
ogra_ibookit does11:29
mdz...11:30
ogra_ibookand deboostrap adds archive.ubuntu.com to it11:30
pittiogra_ibook: oh, interesting, since when? my last created chroot had an empty one11:30
mdzltsp-build-client creates sources.list after debootstrap runs11:30
ogra_ibookin front of the cdrom entry11:30
ogra_ibook(in the installer)11:30
ogra_ibookmdz, then its the opposite and ltsp-build client just adds its entry ... i'll inspect that further, but are you ok with just wiping the one from deboostrap instead of adding a suppression option to deboostrap ?11:31
mdzyes, that's how I'm pretty sure I originally wrote it11:32
mdzunless I typod >> for >11:32
ogra_ibooki'll look at it later 11:32
ogra_ibookcurrently all machines are running test install here :)(11:32
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ogra_ibookpitti, in 0.3.2 this was added11:33
ogra_ibooki never noticed it before ... since i built my chroots on connected machines ...11:33
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