[12:03] <lfittl> night all
[12:03] <lucas> it doesn't :(
[12:10] <lucas> launchpad sometimes look sooo broken
[12:10] <lucas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-backgrounds/+bugs <= no bugs
[12:10] <lucas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-backgrounds/+bug/6684 <= bug
[12:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6684: "backgrounds (Ubuntu) - gnome-backgrounds: merge new debian version" Fix req. for: gnome-backgrounds (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: Fix Committed http://launchpad.net/bugs/6684
[12:12] <dholbach> Committed Fix?
[12:12] <chninkel> lucas: the default filter maybe doesn't show "Fix Committed" bugs
[12:12] <chninkel> but where is the advanced button ?
[12:14] <chninkel> there usually is a advanced button next to the search button: https://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers/+assignedbugs
[12:16] <raphink> lucas: pour un sync il faut assigner  motumergers aussi?
[12:17] <lucas> reviewers oui
[12:17] <lucas> motureviewers
[12:17] <lucas> motumergers c'est la team dont je comprends pas trop l'intret (voir ma proposition pour le MOTUMeeting de demain)
[12:17] <thierry_> siretart : would you like to also review my other package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1414
[12:20] <raphink> ah oki
[12:20] <raphink> donc reviewers
[12:20] <raphink> bon a roule
[12:20] <raphink> je change tus mes bugs
[12:20] <raphink> ;)
[12:22] <raphink> vala
[01:02] <dholbach> good night guys :)
[01:45] <lifeless> ajmitch: hey, is python-bazaar from sid pullable to dapper ?
[01:45] <ajmitch> it's in sid now?
[01:45] <ajmitch> I guess I won't file that ITP then ;)
[01:45] <lifeless> I think so ;)
[01:46] <ajmitch> hm, it doesn't show up here
[01:46] <lifeless> as 'pybaz'
[01:46] <ajmitch> ah right
[01:46] <lifeless> bah
[01:46] <ajmitch> whoever did that needs hurt
[01:46] <lifeless> silly man,
[01:46] <ajmitch> that's on your local install?
[01:46] <ajmitch> no, I see it
[01:46] <lifeless> no, dchroot apt-cache search pybaz
[01:46] <lifeless> ;0
[01:47] <lifeless> probably python2.4-pybaz is what it should be
[01:47] <lifeless> as the python module is 'pybaz'
[01:47] <ajmitch> right
[01:48] <ajmitch> I see python-bazaar that I have installed isn't actually in dapper, I think
[01:49] <sladen> how come  bluez-bcm203x  disappeared from universe?
[02:24] <poimen> how can be xdvdshrink added to the universe rep?
[02:27] <lifeless> why does half of dapper conflict with dbus?
[02:28] <Kyral> hal?
[02:28] <Kyral> or the lackthereof?
[02:28] <ogra_ibook> because you dont upgrade often enough ?
[02:28] <Kyral> heheh
[02:32] <lifeless> ogra_ibook: I'm trying to, but it wont let me!
[02:33] <ogra_ibook> ouch
[02:33] <lifeless> ogra_ibook: I cant seem to find a solution that keeps evo *and* gnome installed.
[02:33] <lifeless> which is, needless to say, painful.
[02:33] <ogra_ibook> just let it remove evo and install ubuntu-desktop in the end
[02:34] <lifeless> hmm, let me check the ubuntu-desktop depends
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> evo is among them :)
[02:34] <lifeless> I'm checking for postfix
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> nope
[02:34] <lifeless> its why I never had ubuntu-desktop, because I use exim
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> MTA is gone since breezy
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> we dont ship any ...
[02:34] <lifeless> and the silly thing depended rather than postfix|mail-transfer-agent
[02:35] <lifeless> looks good, I'll try that.
[02:36] <ajmitch> sigh, the screensaver prefs window is obnoxiously slow
[02:36] <ogra_ibook> not here
[02:37] <ogra_ibook> gnome or xscreensaver ?
[02:37] <ajmitch> probably xscreensaver
[02:37] <ajmitch> and it's probably because I was previewing GL screensavers
[02:37] <ogra_ibook> ah, havent got that since ubz
[02:37] <ajmitch> and then electricsheep
[02:37] <ogra_ibook> electricsheep is darn slow
[02:38] <ogra_ibook> but looks great :)
[02:38] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[02:40] <ajmitch> is gnome-screensaver looking nice & usable for dapper?
[02:42] <ogra_ibook> yup
[02:42] <ogra_ibook> we just switched the seeds
[02:42] <tseng> how about g-p-m?
[02:42] <tseng> and n-m
[02:43] <ogra_ibook> g-p-m very likely
[02:43] <ajmitch> n-m is looking shaky still
[02:43] <ogra_ibook> n-m very unlikely
[02:43] <tseng> nm actually works for me these days
[02:43] <ajmitch> especially as atheros cards do stupid things with the madwifi drivers
[02:43] <tseng> the atheros cards cant scan and be connected at the same time
[02:43] <tseng> is what im hearing
[02:43] <Kyral> huhwha about Athereos?
[02:44] <tseng> if it only scanned when not connected, less problem
[02:45] <ajmitch> apparantly it takes a 'scan for networks' command as 'disconnect & look for somewhere else to go'
[02:46] <ajmitch> I can't recall what other crack is lined up for dapper
[02:55] <Kyral> hmmm
[02:55] <Kyral> stupid question but any reason why GAIM2 hasn't hit Dapper?
[02:56] <tseng> because its not released?
[02:57] <Kyral> oh...
[02:59] <ajmitch> you sound as bad as those forum users..
[03:00] <Kyral> Actually I only asked because I tried to use Gaim Encryption to one of my friends and he said he was using 2, so I was just wondering
[03:00] <Kyral> I heard the UI stinks, so...
[03:01] <ajmitch> so far beta 1 has been released
[03:01] <Kyral> I was just wondering :P
[03:16] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[03:16] <Kyral> hey
[03:44] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[03:45] <minghua> hello LaserJock
[03:45] <LaserJock> how's it going?
[03:46] <psusi> good... how's it hanging?
[03:46] <LaserJock> psusi: good
[03:46] <minghua> quite good, too busy to work much on ubuntu though
[03:47] <LaserJock> hmm, yes. I don't know if I will finish my PhD at the rate I'm going. Ubuntu is much more fun ;-)
[03:47] <Kyral> lol
[03:48] <LaserJock> Sometimes I think I maybe shouldn't have switched from CS to Chemistry
[03:48] <Kyral> lol
[03:49] <LaserJock> Kyral: did I tell you I got my package uploaded to Debian today?
[03:49] <psusi> lol
[03:49] <Kyral> LaserJock: nice
[03:49] <Kyral> I need to file ITPs for EasyChem
[03:49] <Kyral> but I forgot lol
[03:50] <Kyral> what did you do? File a RFS and ITP?
[03:50] <LaserJock> ITP since I already had a package ready to go
[03:50] <Kyral> ah
[03:50] <Kyral> what pack?
[03:50] <LaserJock> then I sent a RFS to debian-mentors
[03:50] <LaserJock> plotdrop
[03:50] <LaserJock> Debian has sooo many acronyms
[03:51] <Kyral> so I just gotta file an ITP for EasyChem
[03:51] <Kyral> and then a RFS for it
[03:52] <Kyral> Do I gotta rebuild the pack for Sid?
[03:52] <Kyral> or Etch/Sarge?
[03:53] <LaserJock> Sid and I don't know if it is necessary but It probably wouldn't hurt
[03:53] <LaserJock> cause you want to get rid of the 0ubuntu1
[03:53] <Kyral> like do I just gotta make sure it builds? Or actually make a changelog change?
[03:53] <hub> I need a review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1472
[03:53] <hub> I clarified the license with upstream
[03:54] <LaserJock> Kyral: hmm, not sure. I had a couple of change I wanted to make so I repackaged
[03:54] <Kyral> LJ maybe you should send this out over the MOTU-Science
[03:54] <LaserJock> Kyral: what?
[03:54] <Kyral> the fact that Plotdrop is in Debian
[03:54] <LaserJock> oh, sure
[03:55] <Kyral> I gotta find someplace to upload mine to..
[03:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: check out http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2006/01/msg00096.html
[03:56] <LaserJock> that is my RFS
[03:56] <Kyral> ah
[03:56] <Kyral> I was thinking of rebuilding EasyChem with CDBS
[03:57] <Kyral> If it works I may send that version into Debian
[03:57] <LaserJock> Kyral: what section did you put EasyChem under?
[03:57] <Kyral> universe/science
[03:58] <LaserJock> hmm, it didn't show up on my list at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/science_list.html
[04:00] <LaserJock> hmm, odd. It should be there
[04:00] <Kyral> okay I'll file an ITP and RFS tomorrow
[04:02] <Kyral> actually...I wanna get Fetchmail and a MTA setup...
[04:03] <LaserJock> yeah, I had to do that too to get reportbug running
[04:03] <LaserJock> I install exim4
[04:03] <Kyral> how do I setup Fetchmail anyway?
[04:03] <LaserJock> oh, don't ask me. I'm clueless when it comes to that kinda stuff.
[04:03] <Kyral> lol
[04:05] <LaserJock> I just use thunderbird ;-)
[04:05] <Kyral> heh
[04:05] <LaserJock> what I am really concerned about right now is how we are going to handle the rest of the packages that aren't in Debian
[04:05] <Kyral> reverse merge?
[04:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why is that?
[04:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's something that only debian developers can upload anyway
[04:06] <LaserJock> well, I've been talking with debian-science and they would like to see ITPs or RFPs on them (8 right now, maybe more)
[04:07] <LaserJock> but since we maintain as a team in Ubuntu I don't know how to handle maintainership when we try to get them in Debian
[04:08] <ajmitch> have the team maintain them
[04:08] <ajmitch> same as ubuntu
[04:08] <LaserJock> How do we do that?
[04:08] <ajmitch> set the Maintainer: field as the team name & contact email
[04:08] <ajmitch> and the team members in Uploaders:
[04:08] <minghua> LaserJock: look at vim for example
[04:09] <minghua> Debian developers have been discussing if it's a good practice though
[04:10] <ajmitch> debian developers will discuss anything to death if they can
[04:10] <Kyral> Like Congress!
[04:10] <LaserJock> do you think DDs would sponsor packages if they were maintained like that?
[04:10] <ajmitch> yes
[04:10] <ajmitch> we do it often
[04:10] <jamessan> well, having the team name in the maintainer field is fine. the part being discussed is what to put as the name for the person that last made the change
[04:10] <Kyral> changelog
[04:11] <ajmitch> jamessan: team name, and person name in the changelog entry itself
[04:11] <ajmitch> is what is commonly done
[04:11] <LaserJock> maybe I can ask debian-science but I'm kind of afraid after the last thing I brought up ;-)
[04:12] <Kyral> Actually
[04:13] <minghua> jamessan: oh I see.  thanks for the clarification
[04:14] <LaserJock> well, it is easy enough to do RFPs at least
[04:16] <Kyral> Where is the Debian-Sponsors ML?
[04:16] <LaserJock> debian-mentors ?
[04:17] <Kyral> oh
[04:19] <LaserJock> well, lucas's scripts are sure coming in handy for MOTUScience
[04:20] <LaserJock> I think debian-science was fairly impressed
[04:20] <Kyral> scripts?
[04:21] <LaserJock> multidistrotools or something like that
[04:21] <Kyral> Subscribed to debian-science and debian-mentors
[04:21] <LaserJock> Kyral: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools
[04:22] <Kyral> Whoa...
[04:22] <Kyral> Package..it...NOW :D
[04:22] <Kyral> eh?
[04:24] <ejofee> [this is a quick PATCH] : tightvncserver won't work (won't find the font's path) unless one runs "sudo ln -s /usr/share/X11/fonts /usr/lib/X11". what do you think it should be done: create the symlink or change the path tightvncserver is expecting?
[04:42] <ejofee_> sorry, i've been disconnected. has anybody answered in the meantime?
[04:43] <lifeless> no
[04:43] <lifeless> but fix tightvncserver
[04:43] <lifeless> its probably hardcoded rather than using whatever header setting it should use
[04:43] <lifeless> ask daniels
[04:45] <ejofee_> when do i find daniels?
[04:45] <ejofee_> lifeless: ^
[05:16] <LaserJock> Kyral: did you know easychem was backported?
[05:17] <Kyral> LaserJock: yah I got the AutoBackport thingy
[05:17] <LaserJock> Kyral: the what?
[05:17] <Kyral> I dunno
[05:17] <Kyral> some kinda script
[05:17] <Kyral> I think
[05:18] <Kyral> But a binary pack hasn't been built yet has it?
[05:19] <LaserJock> nope
[05:19] <Kyral> yah thats kinda odd
[05:19] <LaserJock> well now I have a bash script to generate the lists on MOTUScience using mdt :-)
[05:20] <Kyral> lol
[05:20] <Kyral> What is libregexx
[05:24] <ptlo> sounds like a c++ regular expression library
[05:24] <Kyral> yah
[05:25] <Kyral> yamysqlfront depends on its -dev but I cannot find it in Dapper
[05:26] <Kyral> and the Debian package search is down
[05:27] <LaserJock> Kyral: apt-cache search in sid chroot?
[05:27] <Kyral> ...I didn't think of that...
[05:27] <Kyral> lol
[05:30] <Kyral> ..not showing up
[05:30] <Kyral> nor in Etch
[05:31] <Kyral> I'll just email upstream
[05:31] <Kyral> oh whoops, he emailed me the new version
[05:35] <Kyral> okaaay...I tihink I need to seperate this package...
[05:35] <ajmitch> hammer, please
[05:35] <Kyral> huh?
[05:36] <ajmitch> #ubuntu
[05:36] <Kyral> who?
[05:36] <ajmitch> petoix
[05:36] <Kyral> ajmitch...was there ever a package called libregexx-dev in Debian?
[05:36] <ajmitch> and others with short patience
[05:37] <ajmitch> let's see.. there are ~15-10K packages in debian
[05:37] <Kyral> sorry
[05:37] <LaserJock> Kyral: google?
[05:37] <ajmitch> and you ask if I know of a specific -dev package?
[05:37] <Kyral> I'm asking because this control has qa@debian as maintainer..
[05:37] <ajmitch> hello jaldhar
[05:37] <Kyral> err. packages@qa.debian.org
[05:37] <ajmitch> probably orphaned then
[05:37] <Kyral> ah
[05:38] <ajmitch> or it's been removed from debian
[05:38] <Kyral> Seeing as its not in Sid or Etch...
[05:39] <ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/r/regexx.html
[05:39] <ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=263873
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 263873: "regexx -- RoQA; orphaned, RC bug, no upstream" Package: RM, Maintainer: James Troup and others  http://bugs.debian.org/263873
[05:39] <Kyral> ah
[05:40] <ajmitch> hm
[05:40] <ajmitch> I know that upstream..
[05:40] <Kyral> anyway to get it into Dapper....
[05:40] <ajmitch> did you talk to upstream of this package?
[05:40] <ajmitch> or of the other one?
[05:40] <Kyral> yamysqlfront?
[05:40] <ajmitch> regexx
[05:40] <Kyral> no
[05:41] <Kyral> I'm only asking about it because something else I'm packaging depends on it
[05:41] <ajmitch> it shouldn't be hard to track down niemeyer & see if he has a new upstream version to get back into sid
[05:41] <Kyral> and I discovered its package dir in the yamysqlfront sourceball
[05:43] <ajmitch> hm
[05:43] <ajmitch> I'll try & hunt down a newer regexx
[05:44] <Kyral> ty
[05:44] <ajmitch> the author works for canonical now, btw
[05:44] <Kyral> heh
[05:47] <Kyral> thats a nice job lol
[05:47] <ajmitch> what is?
[05:48] <Kyral> Working for Canonical
[05:48] <ajmitch> last I heard he was on the launchpad team
[05:48] <Kyral> cool
[05:49] <Kyral> Niemeyer you say?
[05:49] <ajmitch> yes
[05:49] <Kyral> I'll look him up on Launchpad tomorrow and email him about the package
[05:49] <ajmitch> why?
[05:50] <Kyral> Wouldn't he know about new versions? Or am I confused...
[05:50] <ajmitch> gustavo at niemeyer.net will do
[05:50] <ajmitch> no need to lookup on LP
[05:50] <Kyral> ah
[05:50] <Kyral> see I didn't know his email :P
[05:50] <ajmitch> it's on the bazaar-ng list :)
[05:50] <Kyral> the wha?
[05:51] <ajmitch> bzr, bazaar-ng, bazaar 2.0...
[05:51] <Kyral> ah
[05:51] <ajmitch> mailing lists,  you know?
[05:51] <Kyral> yah
[05:51] <Kyral> I'm not on the Bazaar ones
[05:52] <Kyral> ty ajmitch
[05:53] <Kyral> the only reason I'm interested in this is because upstream for yamysqlfront is very responsive
[05:54] <psusi> hrm.. is there any way to speed up the way X renders fonts?  seems to be rather cpu intensive
[05:54] <Kyral> Hardware accel?
[05:54] <psusi> I think it's on...
[05:54] <Kyral> I mean let it render the desktop
[05:55] <psusi> dragging a full window around the desktop is plenty fast and doesn't cause cpufreq to speed up the cpu... scrolling a terminal window or dragging the window over top of xchat pegs the cpu from all the text drawing
[05:55] <Kyral> ick
[05:55] <psusi> and it's X that is going nuts
[05:55] <Kyral> what kind of video card do you have?
[05:55] <psusi> so my guess is it's font rendering
[05:55] <psusi> radeon 9800 pro
[05:56] <Kyral> *shudder* ATI
[05:56] <ajmitch> psusi: invest in shares in the power company
[05:56] <Kyral> lol
[05:56] <psusi> ajmitch, why do you say that?
[05:56] <psusi> that reminds me for at least the 80th time.. I need to order a Kill-a-watt
[05:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: do you have a minute to run through using bzr for packages? If not that is ok.
[05:58] <ajmitch> I thought I ran through it in 1 line earlier? :)
[05:58] <LaserJock> yes, but I'm not sure what directories to repo, etc.
[05:59] <LaserJock> it sounded like you just did /debian
[06:00] <ajmitch> often, yes
[06:00] <ajmitch> depends how you want to handle patches
[06:02] <Kyral> Is there anything wrong with using Simple Patchsys?
[06:03] <ajmitch> not specifically
[06:03] <ajmitch> although it can probably have problems
[06:03] <Kyral> ah
[06:03] <LaserJock> ajmitch: so what do you do with the .bzr when you build a package? do you exclude it?
[06:03] <Kyral> so for easy things like EasyChem its alright?>
[06:03] <ajmitch> you can
[06:04] <ajmitch> lately I've left it in, thought I suppose I should remove it
[06:04] <ajmitch> Kyral: it's several steps beyond cvs :)
[06:04] <Kyral> okaaay
[06:04] <ajmitch> and with packaging I'm using it in its simplest way possible
[06:05] <LaserJock> Kyral: http://bazaar.canonical.com/IntroductionToBzr
[06:06] <ajmitch> Kyral: it will revolutionise your life
[06:07] <psusi> oh yea, it is definately the font rendering engine... turning down all the subpixel smoothing and all that makes a huge difference in cpu usage
[06:07] <LaserJock> I'm still trying to figure out how to use any kind of RCS :(
[06:07] <Kyral> Yanno...this would prolly be more useful when I start cranking out my own software
[06:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: all I really do is commit the changes I make in debian/
[06:07] <ajmitch> and then branch for a new version
[06:08] <LaserJock> but do you have a directory where you keep all the repos and then checkout the /debian into the source directory?
[06:09] <ajmitch> just my normal packaging arrangement
[06:09] <ajmitch> which is something like ~/debian/mono
[06:09] <ajmitch> ~/debian/gnu
[06:09] <ajmitch> ~/debian/phpgroupware
[06:09] <ajmitch> etc
[06:09] <ajmitch> nothing particularly ordered about what I do
[06:10] <ajmitch> since bzr doesn't have a separate repository like cvs & svn do
[06:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, ok
[06:10] <ajmitch> I *could* push my branches to a location, if I wanted
[06:10] <ajmitch> but that would be a waste of time for me
[06:11] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[06:11] <ajmitch> I'd hate for it to suddenly turn off
[06:11] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[06:11] <ajmitch> afternoon Hobbsee
[06:11] <Hobbsee> afternoon ajmitch :)
[06:25] <LaserJock> ok, so I was going through the science related packages that are in Ubuntu but not in Debian and I have noticed a couple that apparently came from apt-get.org
[06:26] <LaserJock> how does that work?
[06:27] <ajmitch> they got imported, what other info do you want? :)
[06:28] <LaserJock> well, so they are just left around I suppose?
[06:28] <LaserJock> I guess it takes a MOTUs attention for anything to be updated
[06:28] <ajmitch> sadly, yes
[06:29] <LaserJock> because I was just looking at ruby-gnuplot and the package is from 2001 but they released a new version in November
[06:30] <LaserJock> so obviously nobody was keeping track of it
[06:33] <LaserJock> anybody know japanese?
[06:34] <minghua> Yagisan, I suppose.  but he is not here
[06:35] <LaserJock> so would it be bad to drop packages that are only in Ubuntu that aren't being maintained anymore?
[06:36] <minghua> LaserJock: I think it depends on how we want make people see universe
[06:37] <minghua> I always look universe as "packages without (guaranteed) support, some may work, some may not"
[06:37] <minghua> so it's fine for me if there are unmaintained packages
[06:37] <minghua> others may not share the same opinion, though
[06:39] <LaserJock> yeah, I guess I view it as universe is "packages maintained my MOTU and wannabes" which means that if we aren't maintaining it maybe we shouldn't be sending it out
[06:39] <LaserJock> but I see your point
[06:41] <LaserJock> I guess it would just "look" better (especially to Debian, if we care) iif we didn't have this stuff just hanging out there
[06:41] <zakame> hi MOTUs :)
[06:41] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[06:43] <ajmitch> hello zakame
[06:44] <Kyral> Goodnight MOTU
[06:44] <ajmitch> no way we can maintain all of universe
[06:44] <ajmitch> night Kyral
[06:44] <zakame> heya ajmitch :) what's up?
[06:44] <ajmitch> just playing around with the laptop
[06:45] <zakame> the new one?
[06:46] <ajmitch> yes
[06:46] <zakame> w00t :)
[06:46] <ajmitch> wireless works ok with hwcrypto disable
[06:46] <ajmitch> now I just need sound & battery
[06:47] <zakame> hehe, good for you :)
[06:49] <LaserJock> cya Kyral
[07:13] <wadeb> hello, I've got a piece of GTK educational software I'm trying to package to ubuntu.  is there a howto / reference available for doing this?  most of my questions are simple things like setting an application icon in gnome and properly registering the mime file type.  thanks in advance.
[07:17] <Burgundavia> wadeb, siretart does some wxwidgets stuff
[07:17] <Burgundavia> wadeb, and yes, there are not many channels I am not on
[07:17] <wadeb> burgindavia: lol...thx, I'll msg him
[07:30] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: there are?!
[07:30] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: +'nt?
[07:30] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: I always knew you were just an IRC bot ;)
[07:31] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, I am not a bot but I think Seveas is ;)
[08:17] <ajmitch> hi viviersf
[08:18] <ajmitch> Mez: what did you mean in -devel?
[08:18] <Mez> ajmitch - the whole "Need for launchpad/Canonical Business Model" stuff
[08:18] <ajmitch> oh right
[08:18] <ajmitch> that's still going?
[08:18] <Mez> yeah
[08:19] <ajmitch> fun
[08:19] <Mez> It really gets to me though that some people seem to take such a slanted view on things.
[08:19] <Mez> Ubuntu cant do all the work - nor can debian
[08:19] <Mez> they both need to do woek
[08:19] <ajmitch> no kidding
[08:19] <Mez> and yeah - some bad eggs are spoiling it by not working with each other (both in Debian AND ubuntu)
[08:19] <Mez> but - for the most part - we try and work together
[08:20] <Mez> I've come up against a couple of DD's who arent willing to try and work with me on packages I work on
[08:20] <Mez> and I've come across DD's who are MORE than willing to - and even go beyond the "call of duty" and do extra stuff
[08:20] <Mez> It's not really an "ubuntu vs debian" thing
[08:20] <Mez> it's really - just those people who're spoiling it
[08:21] <Mez> I mean - I would post this to the list
[08:21] <Mez> but I know I'd get flamed
[08:22] <ajmitch> go ahead
[08:22] <ajmitch> wear your asbestos underwear
[08:27] <jsgotangco> nahh don't spread it further
[08:27] <jsgotangco> there will always be a dissenting opinion no matter the explanation
[08:27] <ajmitch> hehe >:)
[08:28] <ajmitch> which is why I've refrained from it
[08:28] <ajmitch> some ubuntu people & plenty of debian people annoy me ;)
[08:30] <Mez> ajmitch - I will post - I'm just going to be nice and stuff
[08:31] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: also, some posts I've seen from ubuntu people, like the "Debian should move to launchpad" is more trolling than anything else.
[08:32] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: agreed, and it's quite understandable why debian will not move
[08:32] <Mez> Mithrandir, i dont see personally how ti could move to launchpad really ...
[08:32] <Mez> I can see how they could use it as a very useful tool - but not as their primary ... thing
[08:33] <ajmitch> some debian teams are using launchpad
[08:33] <Mithrandir> sure, and they're free to do that, but it's not like it should become an essential part of the debian infrastructure.
[08:34] <ajmitch> however the debian team I know of is lead by a launchpad developer/admin :)
[08:34] <Mithrandir> they're free to use alioth or sf.net or groups.yahoo.com or whatever other services they feel like, but that's something else.
[08:36] <viviersf> elo ajmitch
[08:48] <ajmitch> argh, just recalled there's a MOTU meeting in about 12h
[08:51] <dholbach> good morning motu universe
[08:53] <Mez> can someone please express my apologies in the meeting? i have work - os won't be able to make it
[08:53] <ajmitch> Mez: MOTU meeting?
[08:53] <Mez> yeah
[08:53] <ajmitch> ok, will keep note
[08:53] <ajmitch> reminds me, I need to install tomboy on this laptop
[08:55] <Mez> o_O
[08:55] <Mez> The following packages will be REMOVED
[08:55] <Mez>   kdebase-dev kdelibs4-dev
[08:55] <ajmitch> yay!
[08:55] <ajmitch> Mez: find out which lib or -dev package is installing that they depend on
[08:56] <Mez> i'm guessing it's cause it'sinstalling the updated kdelibs
[08:56] <Mez> but - i woulda guesse d they'd be upgraded too - not removed
[08:57] <ajmitch> do it package by package if you can
[08:57] <Mez> *shrugs*
[08:57] <ajmitch> go through the suspects
[08:57] <Mez> I can reinstlal :D
[08:57] <ajmitch> or just wait :)
[08:58] <Mez> packages to be upgrade:  foomatic-db-gimp-print ijsgimpprint kdelibs-bin kdelibs4c2a moodle
[08:58] <Mez>   python2.4-gtk2
[08:58] <ajmitch> upgrading from what?
[10:09] <dholbach> slomo_, siretart, crimsun: I added the link to http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/media/ to Media/Testing - we should pick some of them to let Media/Testing take off
[10:09] <dholbach> slomo_, siretart, crimsun: I added Media/Testing on Testing as well
[10:11] <jsgotangco> its this just about testing what's avaiable (files that is)
[10:32] <ajmitch> sigh, someone on the debian pkg-zope list has done a zope 2.9 'upgrade', but it looks like all they've done is uupdate
[10:32] <ajmitch> and a fair bit of other mangling..
[10:33] <dholbach> jsgotangco: no, not all of them, that's why we need to select some
[10:33] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:37] <StevenK> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian/rules: binary file contents changed
[10:37] <StevenK> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[10:37] <StevenK> This package so hates me.
[10:38] <StevenK> Every time I try to fix it, it does something else fucked up.
[10:38] <ajmitch> uh, that's fairly screwy
[10:38] <ajmitch> why is it detecting debian/rules as binary?
[10:38] <ajmitch> screwed up encoding?
[10:48] <StevenK> Now, onto why albatross wants root privs to actually build.
[10:49] <StevenK> Bugger that, off to watch some TV.
[10:53] <dholbach> StevenK: enjoy :)
[11:02] <siretart> dholbach: rock!
[11:02] <dholbach> siretart: now we need to pick
[11:04] <siretart> dholbach: I will have a look at them this evening when I'm back from uni
[11:04] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[11:04] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[11:19] <ajmitch> evening Hobbsee
[11:20] <Hobbsee> evening ajmitch - how many hours till dapper devel meeting?  seems my calculations keep getting different answers as to when it is
[11:20] <ajmitch> 2hrs & 20min ago
[11:20] <ajmitch> MOTU meeting in 9 hrs & 40min
[11:21] <ajmitch> so if you wanted to watch the devel status meeting, sorry
[11:21] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe, right - told you my calculations were screwed!  oh well, i'll go read a transcript of it when one is uploaded
[11:22] <ajmitch> it should be online now
[11:22] <Hobbsee> ah, so it is :)
[11:22] <ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
[11:29] <Hobbsee> yeah, got the link, thanks anyway :)
[11:31] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[11:31] <\sh> hey aj
[11:31] <ajmitch> how are you?
[11:32] <\sh> i'm feeling like a swine
[11:33] <ajmitch> oh?
[11:34] <\sh> Recently, a certain member of the MOTU team in ubuntu posted a blog post basically saying (from the
[11:34] <\sh> way it came across to me) that contributing back up to debian was a waste of our meagre resources.
[11:35] <\sh> quote of one of the mails in debian-devel...well...sometimes I wish I would have a bablefish to share
[11:36] <ajmitch> btw pending upload of njam is in debian NEW
[11:36] <\sh> Mez: you should read properly...I never said "it's a waste.." I said, "Sometimes we don't have the time to think about it..." and "it's my personal opinion and my decision to do so"
[11:36] <\sh> ajmitch: actually I never saw a package in incoming
[11:37] <ajmitch> that's because incoming is once it's passed NEW
[11:37] <\sh> I thought it's the other way..no possibilty to see new NEW queue?
[11:38] <\sh> or better to check the packages in the NEW queue?
[11:38] <Mez> \sh: It's how it came across to me - I believe I did say that
[11:38] <ajmitch> \sh: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[11:39] <ajmitch> Mez: and stating your view of someone else's blog entry without talking to them, on a public mailing list?
[11:39] <ajmitch> 'feel free to target those people'.. just not fair
[11:40] <Mez> o_O
[11:40] <\sh> Mez: yes...but it's interpretated the wrong way...I do contribute back...but when and why, it's my decision.
[11:40] <Mez> I seriously didnt mean it to come across as a personal attack on you \sh - I'm sorry if it did
[11:40] <\sh> Mez: so don't put all MOTUs in one boat, because of my blog post...it's my opinion
[11:40] <Mez> \sh: I never did put all MOTU's in one boat.
[11:40] <Mez> gah
[11:41] <\sh> Mez: well..that is the problem, that those people discussing right there and now are understanding everything wrong, because the most of them don't know
[11:41] <\sh> Mez: but it can be read like that
[11:42] <ajmitch> this whole sorry episode hasn't been good for anyone
[11:43] <\sh> Mez: it's a matter of fact, that it doesn't matter what we do, if or if not contributing back, it's always wrong...but only for a small ammount of package maintainers. but those are discussion right now with matt and others...that's why it's dangerous to put peoples own opinions into this discussion
[11:43] <\sh> s/discussion/discussing/
[11:44] <\sh> and that's why i'm refusing to reply publicly again on this debian-devel ML...nevertheless, i'm in discussion with some people via privat mail.
[11:45] <\sh> to show them that they're actually telling not the truth when they say "ubuntu is not contributing back or not sending patches in"
[11:45] <\sh> ok..end of story for this...
[11:45] <Mez> \sh - again - sorry if it seemed like a personal attack at you - it really wasnt meant like that
[11:46] <Mez> I've sent another email to try and clarify
[11:46] <Mez> lol - though knowing me it'll make it worse
[11:46] <ajmitch> as long as you don't use lol, :D, o_O or anything else like that, it should be fine
[11:47] <\sh> Mez: i'm not taking it personal...but to put things straight, I can discuss it with you here :) so, forget about it :)
[11:48] <Mez> \sh :d no problems :D glad you dont see it like that (seriously till it was mentioned here - I didnt realise it could have been taken that way!)
[11:48] <azeem> what is remarkable is that Joey Hess and Steve Langasek joined the ranks of those not buying the "Ubuntu is contributing back to Debian" line
[11:49] <ajmitch> it's a thread that should die soon
[11:49] <ajmitch> I hope
[11:49] <\sh> actually, if joey wasn't ranting about how "dirty and difficult it is to merge back ubuntus patches into debian" I would think, he's right, but after reading some blogpost of him and some ranting on debian-devel, i think there are alot of patches flewing back to him directly...
[11:49] <ogra> azeem, havent they always been in that line ?
[11:52] <\sh> ok...it's enough of this stupid and childish topic...I took the bait once, I will never do it again. full stop.
[11:54] <Mez> \sh: you emailed ?
[11:54] <Nafallo> the flamewars of debian is why I'm here instead ;-)
[11:54] <Mez> Nafallo, yes - this is why we have a CoC
[11:54] <ajmitch> Mez: no, we'll let it die, please
[11:55] <\sh> Mez: it's because somehow of me why this topic started to be stupid
[11:55] <Mez> ajmitch, I thought by him saying "he took the bait" he emailed back
[11:55] <ajmitch> Mez: no
[11:55] <\sh> Mez: but reading the other replies I decided to stop mailing to d-d ever again
[11:55] <\sh> Mez: read the whole thread
[11:55] <Mez> \sh: yeah - the replies in it are like ... wank
[11:55] <Mez> \sh: I have
[11:55] <ajmitch> argh
[11:55] <ajmitch> just drop it :P
[11:55] <Mez> I'd hate to see the d-p mailing list atm
[11:56] <Mez> but yeah
[11:56] <ajmitch> everyone go upload packages or something
[11:56] <\sh> earning some money...which is actually nice
[11:57] <Mez> \sh: at least you get to see daylight :d lol - this is the first time I've seen daylight in ... 3 months
[11:57] <Mez> and thats only cause like - I cant sleep
[11:57] <Nafallo> :-O
[12:09] <sivang> \sh: nice to hear that, what kind of service? online?
[12:10] <\sh> a mobile entertainment service..a la jamba..
[12:10] <\sh> but only for 2 days..
[12:10] <\sh> it means 48h duty service...which means some money :)
[12:14] <Gloubiboulga> someone could review this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1473 ?
[12:17] <sivang> \sh: cool, are you going to give RF fix services, service radio lines etc?
[12:18] <\sh> sivang: nono..only the normal "too much traffic on the machines, machine is crashing, please watch, take care and restart services"
[12:18] <sivang> \sh: ah , that's should be easy enough and allow you to work on packages while in there then ;-) ?
[12:18] <\sh> sivang: sure
[12:18] <\sh> trying to fix again python-kde3
[12:22] <sivang> \sh: I've started looking again at KDE, I'm telling you, X-Composite is so sweet there plus Kuake :)
[12:23] <\sh> sivang: both desktop enviroments have advantages and disadvantages...mixing them gives you a lot more fun :)
[12:26] <sivang> \sh: I can imagine, I will try install kuake and work with it for a bit.
[12:31] <ajmitch> kuake? sounds interesting
[12:34] <sivang> ajmitch: KDE has it :)
[12:37] <ajmitch> has what?
[12:38] <sivang> ajmitch: sorry, I mean, X-Composite works and is utilized nicely in KDE, a co-worker is uing it on a debian sid box
[12:38] <ajmitch> right..
[12:38] <ajmitch> I'm meaning xserver support
[12:39] <ajmitch> which apparantly is still lacking a bit on i810
[12:39] <sivang> ajmitch: well, he did disable some of the feature which made his display slow , but things like shadows and smooth edges etc..
[12:40] <\sh> ajmitch: can you do me a big big favour
[12:40] <ajmitch> \sh: what?
[12:41] <\sh> ajmitch: sponsoring a package into debian? pykdeextensions? it's already in kubuntu...
[12:41] <\sh> ajmitch: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/p/pykdeextensions/
[12:41] <\sh> http://sponsors.debian.net/viewpkg.php?id=139
[12:41] <\sh> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/pykdeextensions/trunk/debian/?rev=0&sc=0
[12:41] <ajmitch> that is a big big favour
[12:42] <\sh> ajmitch: I know..but it would help the maintainer of pykdeextensions for kubuntu and debian (it's the same person) :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> how much will that person pay me?
[12:42] <\sh> ajmitch: and actually it would help to decrease the diff between debian and ubuntu/kubuntu
[12:42] <viviersf> lol
[12:42] <\sh> ajmitch: I'll take some of your packages to merge?
[12:42] <viviersf> ajmitch, everything must be free ;p
[12:42] <ajmitch> hah
[12:43] <ajmitch> \sh: I think I've only got zope packages left
[12:43] <\sh> ajmitch: the maintainer doesn't know anything of my sos to you :)
[12:43] <ajmitch> the others are still open due to FTBFS on an arch or similar
[12:43] <\sh> ajmitch: ok...so you have time :)
[12:43] <ajmitch> yes, I have time to do about 50 uploads in 5 days
[12:43] <\sh> ajmitch: thank you soooo much :)
[12:44] <sivang> ajmitch: rather try yakuake, it's sweet
[12:45] <ajmitch> \sh: it's after midnight right now, so it mightbe something for the morning :)
[12:45] <\sh> ajmitch: would be nice if you could help somehow :)
[12:45] <\sh> Fathi Boudra <fboudra@free.fr> is the guy who needs your attention :)
[12:45] <ajmitch> yes, I saw
[12:45] <ajmitch> I'm looking at it now
[12:46] <ajmitch> and wondering why it's libpythonize0-dev
[12:46] <\sh> ajmitch: you rock :)
[12:46] <\sh> ajmitch: because it makes kcontrol modules possible :)
[12:46] <ajmitch> why the 0?
[12:46] <\sh> because it can change to 1 or 2 in the future :)
[12:46] <ajmitch> hm, it's ok
[12:47] <\sh> depending on the lib version
[12:47] <ajmitch> I see it's better to not name it libpythonize-dev
[12:47] <\sh> ajmitch: riddell helped to develop the package i think so it's more then sane imho
[12:48] <ajmitch> the -dev package doesn't depend on python2.4-dev?
[12:48] <ajmitch> should it?
[12:48] <ajmitch> what headers are needed to use the -dev package here?
[12:49] <\sh> everything it's in...python-kde3 is a build-dep and a requirement for the package...so everything will be included what it needs
[12:49] <\sh> python-kde3 is the meta package depending on the default python version
[12:50] <ajmitch> but this requires python2.4
[12:50] <ajmitch> not the default
[12:50] <Riddell> is ajmitch a DD?
[12:50] <ajmitch> yes
[12:50] <Riddell> interesting... :)
[12:50] <ajmitch> uh oh :)
[12:50] <\sh> ajmitch: on ubuntu it requires python2.4 which is included in python-kde3
[12:51] <\sh> and python-sip4-dev
[12:52] <\sh> Riddell: the good thing about it, we know who to ask for help :)(regarding bringing in packages from ubuntu to debian)
[12:53] <ajmitch> oh, you mean StevenK? ;)
[12:53] <\sh> and I'm patching again kconfigskeleton issues of python-kde3...as I saw yesterday, upstream never fixed it correctly..he fixed the segfault, but not the error at all
[12:53] <\sh> ajmitch: it will alternate between you and stevenk
[12:54] <ajmitch> there are at least 3 other DDs who are around here
[12:54] <Riddell> \sh: what's needed to get the KDE 3.5 API in pykde?
[12:55] <\sh> Riddell: well...at least updates from upstream for bringing in kde 3.4.2/4.3/3.5
[12:55] <\sh> support
[12:55] <\sh> Riddell: the problem is, pykde is no revenue project of upstream, only pyqt
[12:56] <ajmitch> \sh: to think that I used to be a kde crack-of-the-day junkie
[12:57] <ajmitch> my 400MHz box used to run hot compiling kde crack every night ;)
[12:57] <\sh> ajmitch: *g*
[12:57] <dholbach> poor box
[12:57] <ajmitch> that box still runs
[12:57] <dholbach> i threatened my 350 box with xubuntu but it coped nicely
[12:57] <ajmitch> it has an uptime of > 1 year on a pre-hoary kernel ;)
[01:01] <\sh> woohooo...python-kde3 works now correctly..
[01:01] <\sh> after I applied a patch from 2004 again *gnarf*
[01:02] <ajmitch> heh
[01:02] <ajmitch> ok, sleep time
[01:02] <ajmitch> will try & get many uploads done tomorrow ;)
[01:04] <\sh> ajmitch: if it's ok, then please sponsor pykdeextensions :) thx :)
[01:04] <\sh> ajmitch: and have a good night :)
[01:08] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, sistpoty has advocated my package, could you have a look at it once again ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1468
[01:10] <Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
[01:20] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: looks good :)
[01:20] <Gloubiboulga> thanks \sh :)
[01:20] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: uploading it now :)
[01:21] <Gloubiboulga> cool :D
[01:22] <segfault> Are you guys advocating now?
[02:05] <raphink> hey I had an idea for an emblem for the motumergers team
[02:05] <raphink> very simple idea
[02:09] <raphink> http://raphink.free.fr/motumergers/
[02:09] <raphink> I'm very bad with graphic stuff though :(
[02:09] <raphink> \sh: what do you think ?
[02:09] <raphink> ;)
[02:11] <\sh> what?
[02:11] <raphink> http://raphink.free.fr/motumergers/
[02:11] <raphink> just had fun working on an emblem for the motumergers team on lp ;)
[02:11] <raphink> very simple idea : merging the debian and ubuntu log ;)
[02:11] <raphink> logos
[02:11] <raphink> not sure it looks nice :s
[02:17] <azeem> raphink: it's pretty hard to figure out at that size
[02:17] <azeem> an animated .gif would be nice :P
[02:18] <raphink> azeem: well I did them at that size because that's how they are on LP
[02:18] <raphink> LP emblems are 16x16 PNGs
[02:18] <azeem> yeah ok, but still :)
[02:18] <raphink> haha
[02:18] <raphink> ;)
[02:18] <raphink> well
[02:19] <raphink> what's the use of making a bigger one if only the small one will be used ?
[02:19] <raphink> azeem: you get the idea though ;)
[02:19] <\sh> what is it?
[02:19] <raphink> \sh: the idea?
[02:19] <\sh> raphink: is it a debian symbol on top of the ubuntu logo?
[02:20] <raphink> well the idea is to merge both logos
[02:20] <raphink> so my first attempt is to try to put them one on the other :s
[02:20] <raphink> I'm very bad at graphic stuff
[02:20] <\sh> I hope there will be no problems with it
[02:20] <raphink> hmm
[02:20] <raphink> well
[02:20] <raphink> the utnubu team uses both logos aswell
[02:21] <raphink> http://raphink.free.fr/motumergers/
[02:21] <raphink> oops
[02:21] <raphink> http://www.pro-linux.de/NB2/images/indiv/utnubu.png
[02:21] <raphink> there
[02:21] <\sh> is it really the official logo of utnubu?
[02:21] <azeem> I think that was pro-linux who did that
[02:21] <\sh> or is it from pro-linux self made
[02:21] <raphink> oh ok
[02:22] <raphink> Bildmontage, kein offizielles Logo  Ren van Bevern
[02:22] <raphink> right
[02:22] <StevenK> Not only can't it build if you aren't root, the packaging is complete and utter crap too.
[02:22] <StevenK> I'm suprised the fricken Build-Depends are right.
[02:22] <\sh> StevenK: albatross?
[02:23] <StevenK> Some useless python module.
[02:23] <\sh> doesn't it work with fakeroot ?
[02:23] <StevenK> \sh: The FTBFS is due to a packaging error.
[02:23] <raphink> so ok I guess merging the logos is no good idea ;)
[02:23] <raphink> forget it ;)
[02:23] <StevenK> It tries to create a file in /var/log
[02:23] <\sh> StevenK: bah...
[02:23] <StevenK> Which, duh, fails.
[02:23] <\sh> StevenK: who is the package maintainer/
[02:23] <\sh> ?
[02:24] <StevenK> Fabian Fagerholm <fabbe@debian.org>
[02:25] <\sh> StevenK: well...good to know :)
[02:25] <\sh> at least no bug we invented :)
[02:26] <StevenK> Right. :-)
[02:26] <StevenK> Now I get to ram the fixes down his throat.
[02:26] <StevenK> I wish my @u.c address so I could wave that in his face.
[02:26] <StevenK> s/\(address\)/\1 worked/
[02:27] <StevenK> \sh: If this thing builds and installs, can I get you to upload it?
[02:27] <\sh> StevenK: sure
[02:27] <StevenK> Thanks.
[02:27] <\sh> StevenK: don't do this...it would only raise more violent rants...and I'm tired of it...
[02:28] <StevenK> I've been ignoring it, it works for me.
[02:28] <StevenK> I'm > < close to unsub'ing from -devel anyway
[02:31] <StevenK> Right. Fixed.
[02:32] <\sh> StevenK: debdiff ?
[02:34] <StevenK> \sh: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/albatross_1.33-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[02:34] <StevenK> I was preparing it.
[02:35] <\sh> done
[02:36] <StevenK> Danke
[02:37] <StevenK> With that, I go to bed.
[02:39] <\sh> good night StevenK
[02:41] <ogra> pfft, so the domain name is only a fake ?
[02:43] <\sh> which domain name?
[02:43] <\sh> oh wedontsleep
[02:44] <ogra> :)
[02:46] <sistpoty> hi folks
[02:46] <Gloubiboulga> hey sistpoty
[02:47] <\sh> what a joke
[02:47] <\sh> an NMU in ubuntu ;) at least a type of :
[02:47] <\sh> Maintainer: Fabian Fagerholm <fabbe@debian.org>
[02:47] <\sh> Changed-By: Steve Kowalik <stevenk@debian.org>
[02:47] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:05] <Riddell> someone care to update swfdec? http://www.schleef.org/swfdec/download/
[03:07] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[03:07] <raphink> hmmf
[03:07] <raphink> hi Kyral
[03:07] <Kyral> sup?
[03:07] <raphink> hmm
[03:08] <raphink> trying to find out how I can send an html page by email
[03:08] <raphink> that has a link to an image
[03:08] <raphink> so you can open the page and see the image
[03:08] <raphink> without having to make a tarball
[03:08] <raphink> ;)
[03:08] <raphink> lol
[03:08] <raphink> nothing to do with motu work as you see ;)
[03:08] <Kyral> lol
[03:08] <Kyral> multipart MIME?
[03:09] <raphink> hmm
[03:09] <raphink> what do you mean?
[03:09] <Kyral> I dunno I just heard that in my Linux Cookbook
[03:09] <Kyral> gimme a sec to pull it out
[03:09] <raphink> haha
[03:09] <raphink> ;)
[03:09] <raphink> ok
[03:10] <Kyral> hmm
[03:10] <Kyral> it uses the Mail command
[03:11] <raphink> :s
[03:11] <raphink> well it doesn't matter much actually I'm sending to it to clever people ;)
[03:11] <Kyral> You could always download the page and edit the markup to use the absolute link to the image
[03:12] <raphink> yes
[03:12] <raphink> well uploading the image somewhere and using an absolute link that is
[03:12] <raphink> that's an option :)
[03:13] <Kyral> yah
[03:13] <\sh> Riddell: doing it
[03:13] <Kyral> or an absolute link to the image itself (the original location)
[03:14] <raphink> yes
[03:34] <thierry_> what's elmo e-mail?
[03:37] <\sh> james at ubuntu.com
[04:31] <thierry_> anyone who could review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1414
[04:32] <Yagisan> G'day All
[04:33] <thierry_> hi
[04:34] <thierry_> when is the final date for package to ge in for dapper?
[04:34] <Yagisan> thierry_: new or merge ?
[04:36] <thierry_> new
[04:37] <raphink> thierry_: the 19th
[04:37] <raphink> next week that is ;)
[04:38] <thierry_> mmm that's soon
[04:38] <raphink> yes indeed
[04:38] <thierry_> I have a package waiting only REVU
[04:38] <Yagisan> raphink: hmm, that means I should be whipping motu's to advocate my packages then. Care to revu anything I posted (ia32-lib-universe perhaps ;) )
[04:38] <raphink> yep ;)
[04:40] <thierry_> ogra, ogra_ibook : could you review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1414
[04:43] <Yagisan> wine: failed to initialize: /usr/lib/wine/ntdll.dll.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:44] <Yagisan> :( damm hardcoded libary paths
[05:11] <Yagisan> G'day all. I have a packaging question that I hope you can help me with. I need to build multiple copies of a package with different configure options, for a debhelperised rules file. The package currently builds 1 binary package from source, but this will need to change.
[05:12] <Yagisan> I looked at glibcs rules file, as I know it makes multiple binaries from 1 source, but that was a bit too advanced for me to understand
[05:13] <Yagisan> Can anyone suggest a package that already builds it's source with one set of config flags, the cleans, and builds again with another ?
[05:13] <azeem> most packages do that by having two build trees
[05:14] <buxy> Yagisan: check another simpler package, maybe "dia"
[05:14] <azeem> like, "mkdir build-foo && cd build-foo && ../configure --enable-foo"
[05:14] <azeem> same for bar
[05:14] <Yagisan> ahh
[05:14] <azeem> it helps if the build system supports out-of-tree builds, which some do not
[05:14] <Yagisan> buxy: grabbing dia now.
[05:15] <Yagisan> azeem: well I'll find out soon ;)
[05:16] <Yagisan> buxy, azeem thanks for your advice
[05:19] <Yagisan> buxy: dia seems very instructive, thank you. now to nuke my mistakes, and try again
[05:25] <lucas> hi universe :)
[05:28] <hub> hi multiverse
[05:31] <Kyral> yo
[05:33] <thierry_> Kyral : hi, could you review my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1414 ?
[05:33] <raphink> no he can't thierry_ ;)
[05:33] <Kyral> I'm not a reviewer
[05:33] <thierry_> :(
[05:34] <raphink> thierry_: I could review it, but not advocate
[05:34] <thierry_> raphink : that's better than nothing, that would show me if something is wrong or not
[05:34] <raphink> sure
[05:35] <Kyral> hmm
[05:35] <Kyral> if the program includes Python..
[05:35] <Kyral> should I call dh_python
[05:38] <tseng> if y ou want to use ${python:Depends}
[05:39] <Kyral> yah I changed it up
[05:49] <Kyral> whee uploaded to REVU
[05:50] <raphink> thierry_: I'm reviewing
[05:56] <lucas> thierry_: good! after spamming this channel for several days now, somebody gave up and is reviewing your package. You should be happy. Can we move to more important stuff now ?
[05:57] <raphink> lol
[05:57] <raphink> lucas: mdr ;)
[05:58] <raphink> I'm afraid I'm gonna give him work though lucas ;)
[05:58] <raphink> these libs take hours to build
[06:00] <lucas> also, maybe we should ask somebody from MOTURuby to review the package. I don't really want to have thierry's package in the archive, since he said himself that he wasn't interested in it, he just wanted it in because it's a dependency of another package
[06:00] <raphink> ic
[06:00] <raphink> thierry_: comments sent
[06:12] <thierry_> lucas : sorry for spamming, I just want to get my package in before dapper
[06:13] <lucas> how many merges/syncs have you done so far ?
[06:17] <LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
[06:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: pong
[06:23] <Kyral> yo
[06:29] <Yagisan> \sh: wine patch not yet ready. It ran into a snag when I installed it on amd64, and I need to redo my packaging strategy for it. I'm moving to a multiple build system, with different configure flags
[06:29] <\sh> what snag?
[06:30] <Yagisan> \sh: libwine.so looks for it's libs in the wrong spot
[06:30] <\sh> wonderful :)
[06:31] <Yagisan> \sh: yeah, not.
[06:38] <Yagisan> night all
[06:45] <Riddell> why has my pbuilder suddently started going wonky?
[06:45] <Riddell>     -> copying [chroot/dapper32/root/kdelibs/kdelibs_3.5.0-0ubuntu9_source.changes] 
[06:45] <Riddell>     -> copying [chroot/dapper32/root/kdelibs/libs] 
[06:45] <Riddell> cp: cannot stat `chroot/dapper32/root/kdelibs/libs': No such file or directory
[06:46] <Kyral> I'm wondering when Emacs got a Sources.list mode
[06:50] <Kyral> oh it was in debian-el
[07:04] <tseng> koke: woo!
[07:06] <Kyral> MOTU Meeting today?
[07:08] <dholbach> when do we start? 2 hours?
[07:08] <Kyral> yah
[07:08] <Kyral> 20:00 UTC
[07:36] <Kyral> what does diff return if the files are the same?
[07:36] <Kyral> like if I wanted to make an if condition on it
[07:37] <azeem> try? :)
[07:37] <Kyral> lol
[07:37] <Kyral> I did, in bash its nothing
[07:37] <Kyral> so assume 0 lol
[07:37] <azeem> nothing?
[07:37] <Kyral> like <command> then just newlines to the prompt
[07:37] <azeem> castor~$ diff /dev/null /dev/null
[07:37] <azeem> castor~$ echo $?
[07:37] <azeem> 0
[07:38] <Kyral> lol
[07:38] <Kyral> okay
[07:38] <Kyral> Didn't know that trick
[07:38] <Kyral> ty
[07:41] <sivang> Kyral: what are you writing ? :)
[07:44] <Kyral> maintenance script for the lab
[07:44] <Kyral> or rather the postinst
[07:45] <Kyral> I basically wanna say if then files related to AFS are different (ie, new versions from the package) then stop AFS, else don't
[07:45] <Kyral> so I avoid knocking people off when the update cronjob hits
[07:50] <Kyral> hey LJ
[07:51] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[07:52] <lucas> MOTU meeting is one hour from now right ?
[07:52] <Kyral> yah
[07:52] <Kyral> Oh I <3 responsive upstream!
[07:53] <LaserJock> Kyral: me too, I also like responsive Debian
[07:54] <Kyral> lol
[07:54] <Kyral> That reminds me that I need to file a RFS for Easychem
[07:54] <LaserJock> It took me 2 days to get plotdrop uploaded to Sid
[07:54] <Kyral> Did you file a ITP for Plotdrop?
[07:55] <LaserJock> sure
[07:55] <Kyral> mind linking so I can use it as a Template? :P
[07:55] <LaserJock> sure, just a sec
[07:57] <\sh> cheers guys
[07:58] <LaserJock> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=347330 is the ITP and http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2006/01/msg00096.html is the RFS
[07:58] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 347330: "plotdrop -- A minimal GNOME frontend to GNUPlot" Package: ITP, Severity: wishlist, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org</a http://bugs.debian.org/347330
[08:00] <Kyral> so an ITP is a bugreport?
[08:00] <LaserJock> yes
[08:01] <Kyral> stupid question but where is the bug report for Debian?
[08:01] <\sh> Kyral: bugs.debian.org/wnpp
[08:01] <Kyral> nm...
[08:01] <LaserJock> Kyral: I have links on MOTUScience
[08:02] <Kyral> ah
[08:02] <Kyral> Feel free to smack me
[08:02] <LaserJock> I used reportbug and it worked really well
[08:02] <LaserJock> once I installed exim :(
[08:03] <Kyral> lol
[08:03] <Kyral> I have debian-el installed for Emacs so :D
[08:04] <LaserJock> does debian-el do bug reports too?
[08:04] <Kyral> According to the page
[08:04] <LaserJock> dang it, I think debian-el might be the only reason I would use emacs anymore
[08:05] <Kyral> lol
[08:05] <Kyral> It even has a debian-bug-intent-to-package
[08:05] <phanatic> hi people
[08:06] <LaserJock> hi phanatic
[08:07] <astronut> I'm a debian package maintainer, and i noticed my packages made it into universe...if there is any diff, it should be in people.u.c/~scott/patches right?
[08:07] <astronut> and if it's not, there've been no changes?
[08:07] <phanatic> i've packaged a small gnome applet. could somebody review it?
[08:07] <Kyral> Should I cc the bug report to debian-devel?
[08:09] <LaserJock> astronut: if there isn't an -ubuntuX version on your package in Ubuntu then we haven't touched it
[08:09] <siretart> Kyral: the itp? no, that goes automatically to debian-devel
[08:09] <astronut> LaserJock: ah, ok
[08:09] <astronut> that package's upstream isn't in great shape
[08:09] <astronut> there's a new version, but someone expressed interest in adopting, so they were going to package it
[08:10] <astronut> and i haven't updated my packages because of this
[08:10] <LaserJock> astronut: but if we were to touch it then it would be in p.u.c/~scott/patches/
[08:10] <astronut> LaserJock: thanks
[08:12] <phanatic> i should upload to revu, right? (sorry for being lame, but my first package for ubuntu)
[08:12] <Gloubiboulga> phanatic, yep
[08:13] <phanatic> Gloubiboulga: thx
[08:13] <Kyral> siretart: Emacs asked :P
[08:14] <LaserJock> is it Bug Day today?
[08:15] <Kyral> now how do I send the report...
[08:15] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, it was yesterday
[08:15] <Kyral> in emacs lol
[08:15] <LaserJock> dohhh
[08:15] <LaserJock> Kyral: emacs is only the solution when you know how to use it ;-)
[08:18] <chninkel> Kyral: why can't you use reportbug ? It can't be configured to use a smtp server
[08:18] <chninkel> Kyral: s/can't/can/
[08:18] <Kyral> chninkel: Because I <3 Emacs :P
[08:19] <LaserJock> oppps, /me forgot to include links on the MOTUScience lists
[08:19] <chninkel> Kyral: :) oh ok
[08:22] <Kyral> I should install a MTA
[08:23] <Kyral> how should I config exim for POP3?
[08:25] <Treenaks> exim doesn't do pop3
[08:25] <Treenaks> exim does SMTP
[08:25] <Kyral> oh
[08:25] <Kyral> this whole Fetchmail MTA thing is new to me lol
[08:26] <Kyral> So I setup Fetchmail to get the stuff from my POP3 servers, then setup exim to use Fetchmail?
[08:26] <Treenaks> Kyral: no
[08:26] <Treenaks> you configure fetchmail to get mail from a pop3 account, and poke it into your exim :)
[08:26] <Kyral> and sending mail?
[08:27] <Treenaks> through your local exim, or a smarthost ('your provider's SMTP server')
[08:27] <Kyral> so I need Sendmail for sending it to the SMTP server
[08:27] <Treenaks> exim does that part
[08:27] <Treenaks> it's basically a sendmail replacement
[08:28] <Kyral> all I want to do is read my email with my console lol
[08:28] <Treenaks> Kyral: get it on an IMAP server and use mutt ;)
[08:28] <Kyral> lol
[08:28] <Kyral> Gmail doesn't do IMAP
[08:28] <Treenaks> don't use that then
[08:28] <Kyral> and Fetchmail runs as a daemon then?
[08:29] <Treenaks> it could
[08:29] <Treenaks> it can also run from cron
[08:31] <Kyral> okay...so I am in fetchmailconf
[08:32] <Kyral> Local Names is the username whose mailbox I want it to be dropped to right?
[08:48] <Kyral> I have it setup, but both my accoutns are giving me SMTP errors
[08:49] <chninkel> Kyral: you're talking about fetchmail or exim ?
[08:49] <Kyral> Fetchmail
[08:49] <Kyral> at the end it says "fetchmail: Query Status=10 (SMTP)"
[08:50] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:50] <chninkel> Kyral: is exim working ?
[08:50] <\sh> 10 mins to meeting :)
[08:50] <Kyral> not yet lol
[08:50] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty
[08:50] <Kyral> didn't set it up
[08:50] <chninkel> Kyral: so that's the reason of the SMTP error
[08:51] <Kyral> setting up exim
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> \sh, meeting is public ?
[08:51] <sistpoty> Gloubiboulga: yes
[08:51] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: all meetings are public
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> cool
[08:51] <\sh> we don't have any secrets
[08:51] <Kyral> how do I find out the "visible" mail name of my computer?
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> what is the chan ?
[08:51] <\sh> #ubuntu-meeting
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> thanks
[08:52] <raphink> #ubuntu-meeting
[08:52] <raphink> for all meetings
[08:52] <raphink> well most actually
[08:52] <LaserJock> Kyral: i didn't get very far in #ubuntu when I tried :(
[08:52] <Kyral> LaserJock: what did you set as the visible mail name for your system?
[08:53] <Gloubiboulga> sistpoty, thanks for advocating my package btw
[08:53] <sistpoty> np... I guess the french homepage confused me a little bit with the right tar.gz ;)
[08:53] <sistpoty> (I don't speak french)
[08:53] <Gloubiboulga> sistpoty, np
[08:53] <chninkel> Kyral: not really important unless you receive directly mail from outside I think
[08:53] <LaserJock> Kyral: I honestly can't remember
[08:54] <Kyral> chninkel: so just set it to local host or whatever?
[08:54] <chninkel> Kyral: put your computer name
[08:55] <Kyral> okay..
[08:55] <Kyral> what machine will act as a smart host..?
[08:55] <LaserJock> your SMTP server
[08:56] <Kyral> so mail.gmail.com?
[08:56] <LaserJock> probably
[08:57] <Kyral> I can have multiple SMTP servers right?
[08:57] <LaserJock> not sure, I would imagine. One is enough for me ;-)
[08:58] <Kyral> College + GMail
[08:58] <LaserJock> well, I only send out using 1
[08:59] <lucas> *** MOTU meeting on #ubuntu-meeting NOW! ***
[08:59] <Kyral> ...
[09:00] <Kyral> okay...it never asked for the Username +Pass for smtp.gmail.com
[09:01] <chninkel> Kyral: it will not work
[09:01] <Kyral> okaaay
[09:01] <chninkel> Kyral: you'll have to manually modify the exim config file
[09:01] <chninkel> Kyral: can't you use your provider smtp server ?
[09:02] <Kyral> chninkel: I have my college SMTP server
[09:02] <Kyral> but I send GMail stuff through them
[09:02] <Kyral> because they are nasty, blocking a lot of email addresses
[09:02] <chninkel> Kyral: configure a smtp server which doesn't need auth
[09:05] <Kyral> both need auth
[09:06] <chninkel> Kyral: so you'll have to study exim doc or find a howto
[09:06] <Kyral> or use a different MTA...
[09:07] <LaserJock> Kyral: do you just want to send emails out?
[09:07] <Kyral> yah to the servers
[09:08] <LaserJock> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/virtual/mail-transport-agent
[09:09] <Kyral> yah I'm thinking sendmail
[09:09] <LaserJock> what about esmtp or masqmail?
[09:09] <Kyral> I dunno
[09:09] <chninkel> Kyral: sendmail is not really simple toc configure
[09:10] <LaserJock> esmtp was really easy, if you want to just send mail to your SMTP server
[09:11] <chninkel> LaserJock: he also wants to receive mail locally
[09:11] <Kyral> I have Fetchmail
[09:12] <chninkel> Kyral: but I think fetchmail needs a local smtp server which will deliver to the mail spool
[09:12] <Mithrandir> chninkel: no, it doesn't, it can deliver to maildrop or procmail directly.
[09:12] <Kyral> how do you configure estmp?
[09:13] <LaserJock> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/esmtp/esmtp/sample.esmtprc?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain
[09:13] <chninkel> Mithrandir: ok so no problem with a relay only smtp
[09:14] <Kyral> mda is fetchmail?
[09:16] <LaserJock> not sure, they use procmail
[09:29] <Kyral> whee I have it grabbing mail from Fetchmail
[09:29] <Kyral> exim that is
[09:29] <Kyral> now I need to have them both running as Daemons
[09:35] <Kyral> ..which I don't know how to lol
[09:36] <LaserJock> don't they have /etc/init.d scripts?
[09:37] <Kyral> ..envermind
[09:45] <Kyral> now I have to get exim configured fully
[09:51] <Kyral> hmm
[09:51] <Kyral> so mail marked read in mutt is moved to mbox?
[09:53] <dholbach> Vorbereiten zum Ersetzen von mplayer-skins 2-3 (durch .../mplayer-skins_2-4_all.deb) ...
[09:53] <dholbach> Removing obsolete /usr/share/mplayer/Skin/default
[09:53] <dholbach> rmdir: /usr/share/mplayer/Skin/default: Not a directory
[09:53] <dholbach> dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von /var/cache/apt/archives/mplayer-skins_2-4_all.deb (--unpack):
[09:53] <dholbach> :)
[09:55] <Kyral> Fetchmail runs as a daemon as my user....and exim runs from init.d...
[10:11] <Kyral> hmm
[10:42] <crimsun> 'night, daniel
[10:43] <dholbach> night daniel
[10:55] <siretart> buxy: we are currently discussing collaborative maintenance on #ubuntu-meeting, perhaps you'd like to join?
[10:56] <buxy> siretart: thanks for the notice I'm joining
[10:57] <crimsun> siretart: mplayer-skins 2-4 (and newer) need to handle the case where /usr/share/mplayer/Skin/default is a symlink
[10:58] <crimsun> siretart: as in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7031
[11:00] <siretart> crimsun: gnarf, there must something have gone wrong with my test for directories. Will check that.
[11:01] <sistpoty> crimsun: are you working only on mythtv or also on the plugins?
[11:04] <crimsun> sistpoty: just mythtv
[11:05] <sistpoty> crimsun: ok, I've got a fix for mythplugins here... will obsolete mythgame, mythphone... and other isolated packages
[11:05] <sistpoty> crimsun: then I'll upload it later on... ok?
[11:08] <crimsun> sistpoty: sure
[11:09] <sistpoty> :)
[11:11] <ajmitch> sigh
[11:11] <ajmitch> looks like I missed most of the meeting
[11:11] <ogra_ibook> \sh, are you still working on wine ?
[11:12] <\sh> ogra_ibook: I uploaded 0.9.5 including wmf security patch and uploaded security fixes for wine in hoary and breezy so yes
[11:12] <Kyral> Yea! I got Exim behaving!
[11:12] <ogra_ibook> it doesnt work on ltsp it seems
[11:12] <tseng> oh this again @ #u-m
[11:13] <ajmitch> tseng: yep
[11:13] <\sh> ogra_ibook: hmmm...? it works via ssh -X in a i386 chroot on my amd64 :)
[11:14] <\sh> (notepad actually)
[11:14] <ogra_ibook> i just have a guy in #edubuntu
[11:14] <ogra_ibook> #he only sees a black box
[11:14] <ogra_ibook> but with breezy wine it works
[11:15] <\sh> breezy wine is a different version...0.9.4 and 0.9.5 changed a lot
[11:16] <\sh> with 0.9.4 ajmitch had problems with diablo 2 but with 0.9.5 it worked again
[11:16] <ajmitch> that was a known problem with direct3d support
[11:16] <ajmitch> because they don't do proper regression testing
[11:17] <\sh> ogra_ibook: which application?
[11:18] <ogra_ibook> \sh, if you want someone to help debugging, ask platos in #edubuntu
[11:18] <\sh> ogra_ibook: thx :)
[11:19] <siretart> crimsun: whats wrong with this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7034
[11:21] <crimsun> siretart: rmdir fails on symlinks. I'd first test -L DEFAULTDIR
[11:22] <siretart> argl. and test -d follows symlinks.. argl. right
[11:22] <siretart> I need to exit 0 if DEFAULTDIR is already a symlink
[11:22] <crimsun> right
[11:22] <crimsun> I guess it's -h for bash
[11:22] <crimsun> or -L
[11:28] <thierry_> what's the difference between the menu file and the app.desktop file?
[11:30] <crimsun> menu -> Debian menu; .desktop = fd.o desktop file
[11:30] <thierry_> k
[11:31] <phanatic> is a menu file needed, if there's a .desktop available?
[11:32] <tseng> menu as in debian/menu?
[11:32] <phanatic> yeah
[11:32] <tseng> thats pretty much different
[11:32] <tseng> its for the old debian menu system
[11:32] <phanatic> does ubuntu need that?
[11:32] <tseng> we dont really require you have one
[11:33] <phanatic> okay :)
[11:33] <tseng> some weird people probably still use it
[11:36] <phanatic> is a man page needed for a gnome app?
[11:37] <phanatic> (that's the only lintian message left)
[11:50] <rbelem> g'evening all
[11:52] <rbelem> i have a software license question
[11:53] <rbelem> There is 3 liceses LGPL, GPL and "do whatever you want"
[11:53] <rbelem> in the package, but different files
[11:55] <rbelem> which license is closer to "do whatever you want"?
[11:56] <rbelem> and how to put 3 licenses in debian/copyright? some thing like this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7036?
[11:57] <siretart> crimsun: I just uploaded mplayer-skins_2-5 featuring a check for symlinks. works for me, but feel free to upload over it if you find another problem with it
[11:57] <siretart> I'll be in bed soon [tm] 
[11:59] <rbelem> g'night all
[11:59] <siretart> rbelem:
[12:00] <siretart> rbelem: 'do whatever you want' does not sound dfsg free to me
[12:00] <rbelem> siretart: :)
[12:00] <siretart> :)
[12:01] <rbelem> siretart: may i sugest to upstream author bsd license?
[12:02] <thierry_> does autotools.mk install the .desktop file, or is it only gnome.mk who does it?
[12:02] <rbelem> siretart: or is there other that descibe better?