[01:57] <TOZTWO> Does anyone here know if there are any edubuntu labs in Texas?
[02:29] <TOZTWO> Howdy arkan0x.
[02:29] <arkan0x> :O
[02:31] <TOZTWO> I'm having trouble understanding how sudo works.
[03:47] <jsgotangco> TOZTWO, think of it as admin access where you are are only allowed to do certain things with each line of command instaed of the whole session
[03:50] <mhz> hi all
[04:08] <TOZTWO> Is there a way to log into a sudo enabled account?
[04:15] <TOZAFK> thanx, gotta run.
[06:39] <mhz> Seveas: knock knock
[06:39] <mhz> "neo, wake up"
[11:43] <juliux> ogra_ibook, the thinclients are on the way to you
[11:52] <magus_> hi
[12:32] <ogra_ibook> yay
[02:58] <ogra_ibook> did anybody notice that we surpassed OpenBSD on distrowatch this month ?
[02:59] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: no. but when we surpass ubuntu, we'll all know about it
[02:59] <ogra_ibook> lol
[03:04] <highvoltage> hehe.
[05:06] <mhz> ogra_ibook: i am in nirvana reading this; ttp://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Notes:Article
[05:06] <mhz> very clear and enlightening doc
[05:07] <mhz> about live cd making
[05:10] <mhz> ogra_ibook: so far, it all indicates that in order to make a solution for older hardware or less powerful ones, the best desktops following freedesktop.org standards are IceWM and XFCE
[05:11] <mhz> now, the very important question is: will I work on just customizing a look and feel for Edubuntu apps (KDE and little GNOME)
[05:11] <mhz> or
[05:12] <mhz> will I have to also recompile stuff more optimized for hardware specifics and then also take advante of the process and make apps. independant of GNOME or KDE libs
[05:13] <mhz> and so, maybe not use all Edubuntu apps
[05:13] <mhz> ogra_ibook: those questions, for me have no answers yet in my head
[05:14] <mhz> The idea is to ease the load of servers (remember we usually use desktops boxes 'to work as servers' and so HW is not that powerfull)
[05:15] <mhz> and in case, some schools need it, also make that edubuntu-light installable on PII, 300 MHz
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> as ltsp system ? 
[05:16] <mhz> for server? yes
[05:16] <ogra_ibook> wont work 
[05:16] <mhz> ?
[05:16] <mhz> PII are the 'cases' of clients
[05:16] <ogra_ibook> how many clients do you want to attach to this ? 
[05:17] <ogra_ibook> ah
[05:17] <ogra_ibook> thats just fine 
[05:17] <mhz> usually, PIV, 700 or 1GHz can be 'servers' here
[05:19] <mhz> but my main question is what to choose? Edubuntu apps (with all current dependencies to KDE and GNOME) or Apps with the minimum dependencies possible, which would then require I compile again
[05:19] <mhz>  but then it wouldn't be 'edubuntu' :) because maybe many apps, will not be the ones in real Edubuntu
[05:20] <mhz> and my other concern is that currently, Xubuntu has no roadmap or organization of anykind
[05:21] <ogra_ibook> does it need one ? 
[05:21] <ogra_ibook> its there and will be in main and completely supported with dapper 
[05:21] <ogra_ibook> thats mainly the roadmap
[05:22] <mhz> ogra_ibook: so far, no one knows what to do, what's next, when to discuss stuff or who decides over what
[05:22] <mhz> ahhhhh
[05:23] <mhz> ogra_ibook: and regarding my former important question?
[05:23] <mhz> any suggestion?
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> thats your decision if yyou want to take the burden to make your own distro 
[05:24] <mhz> nope, I dont
[05:24] <mhz> you know that
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> keep in mind that you have to recompile and offer every security upgrade 
[05:24] <mhz> but i have no clue which way will actually be lighter
[05:25] <mhz> i've no clue if taking dependency away will actually be lighter for enduser with old hw
[05:25] <ogra_ibook> you can leave out certain parts, some apps might have special options to drop stuff
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> but i doubt the gain isnt worth the manpower you have to put into thatz
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> you dont take dependencys away
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> you need to disable the app functionallity, that will make the dependency go 
[05:27] <ogra_ibook> so you'll end up with smalle but less functional apps
[05:27] <mhz> and how do i know or 'preview' that before hand?
[05:27] <mhz> and will that mean 'recompile' anyways?
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> you cant *preview* it
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> you need to compile the app and measure the difference
[05:33] <mhz> okis
[05:34] <mhz> thx for the time
[05:43] <TOZTWO> If there is no root account, then how do I copy, move, modify files where the owner is root?
[05:44] <ogra_ibook> sudo cp /source/file/path /target/file/path
[05:44] <ogra_ibook> or replace cp with mv, gedit 
[05:45] <TOZTWO> ok, thanx.
[05:47] <TOZTWO> I'm selling an edubuntu lab to a local church, and I need to know if edubuntu can serve 10 clients from a quad PII 233 with 1 Gb of ram.
[05:48] <mhz> dubt it
[05:49] <mhz> doubt it
[05:49] <ogra_ibook> thats a very small server
[05:49] <TOZTWO> Yeah, it's old.
[05:50] <ogra_ibook> you have to compute like that: 128MB per client + 256MB for the server 
[05:50] <ogra_ibook> i have no exact numbers about CPU power, but 233Mhz is clearly to small for 10 clients
[05:50] <TOZTWO> How about a Dual PIII 700?
[05:51] <mhz> TOZTWO: I have tested a 700 Mhz + 256 Ram box as a server with 3 thin laptops
[05:52] <mhz> it worked fine until firefox was run by 2 clients
[05:52] <mhz> :)\
[05:52] <TOZTWO> hmm....
[05:52] <mhz> but that was not dual
[05:52] <mhz> nor had the ram you mention
[05:52] <TOZTWO> How much better would a dual run?
[05:53] <mhz> no idea yet for me
[05:53] <mhz> but it would be cool to know :)
[05:53] <TOZTWO> I might have to go with a quad PIII just to be sure.
[05:53] <ogra_ibook> in any case your firefox experience was MEM related
[05:53] <mhz> ogra_ibook: yes
[05:54] <mhz> TOZTWO: you can always try using a lighter desktop
[05:54] <ogra_ibook> i'd guess ~1000Mhz would be fine for 10 clients ...
[05:54] <mhz> (other than GNOME or KDE)
[05:54] <TOZTWO> I found a place locally that disopses of old hardware(recycle center), and I can get really cheap hardware.
[05:54] <mhz> TOZTWO: yup, I am trying old hardware here
[05:55] <mhz> so the investment takes place and admin time at one single machine: the server
[05:55] <TOZTWO> Yup. These folks can't afford a traditional lab.
[05:55] <mhz> TOZTWO: it all depends on what apps the 10 clients would be running
[05:56] <mhz> TOZTWO: i am there too :)
[05:56] <TOZTWO> Everything that edubuntu has, OO, Logo, Games, Gcompris, Firfox.
[05:57] <TOZTWO> mhz: You are setting up a small lab for someone?
[05:57] <mhz> so far, a Pentium or AMD (not celeron, I'd say) of 1 GHz or more, plus the RAM claculus ogra_ibook metioned
[05:57] <mhz> would do for 10 clients
[05:58] <ogra_ibook> TOZTWO, i think if you can put two 1ghz CPUs and 1.5G of ram into this dual 700 machine, you are fine
[05:58] <mhz> and if ram can't be 128 p/client, then I'd encourage you to consider using XFCE desktop
[05:58] <mhz> instead of GNOME
[05:58] <Velmont> Or ROX? :] 
[05:59] <mhz> TOZTWO: i am testing some 'layouts' for schools with low resources
[05:59] <mhz> Vego: AFAIKm ROX is not a 'desktop manager'
[05:59] <mhz> Velmont: : AFAIKm ROX is not a 'desktop manager'
[06:00] <mhz> sorry
[06:00] <mhz> :)
[06:00] <Velmont> mhz: They have a desktop and filemanager at least ;)
[06:00] <mhz> TOZTWO: usually, 1 server and 7 to 13 clients
[06:00] <mhz> Velmont: indeed
[06:00] <TOZTWO> mhz: I've found that for schools, there are way too many hoops to jump through, so I'm doing churches instead.
[06:01] <mhz> TOZTWO: good idea!
[06:01] <TOZTWO> No one ever calls me for computer help unless it to fix thier spyware problems.......
[06:02] <TOZTWO> I'm getting very tired of doing all of this reactive maintenance..........
[06:02] <ogra_ibook> put a modem on the ltsp server, then you can dial in from home to fix stuff ;)
[06:03] <TOZTWO> So I figure with edubuntu, I can take a more proactive role, and teach people how to use a computer..........
[06:03] <TOZTWO> Then I can have a more constructive role, rather than a maintenance role.
[06:07] <TOZTWO> When I build this lab, I'm going to document how we do it, pictures, how-to, hurdles, prices, and then share.
[06:08] <lguerra> TOZTWO: very good
[06:37] <juliux> hi littlepaul 
[06:38] <littlepaul> hi juliux 
[06:38] <littlepaul> juliux, i sent you the required email
[06:38] <juliux> littlepaul, thxs
[06:48] <juliux> hi mherweg 
[06:48] <lucasvo> [Excess Flood] 
[06:49] <lucasvo> *g*
[06:56] <littlepaul> ping lucasvo
[06:56] <lucasvo> littlepaul: pong
[06:56] <littlepaul> lucasvo, do you allready know http://ikhaya.ubuntuusers.de/ ?
[06:57] <lucasvo> no
[06:57] <lucasvo> littlepaul: what is it about, a blog?
[06:57] <littlepaul> yes
[06:57] <littlepaul> a community blog
[06:57] <littlepaul> maby you want to write someting about edubuntu
[06:59] <lucasvo> littlepaul: hm, I am not a very talented writer
[06:59] <lucasvo> but, yes, I can try
[07:00] <littlepaul> lucasvo, good content is important not talent as an writer :)
[07:01] <littlepaul> lucasvo, littlepaul AT ubuntu-de DOT org
[07:02] <lucasvo> ok
[07:03] <littlepaul> in the blog there are some further interesting articles
[07:03] <littlepaul> lucasvo, i have anoter link for you :)
[07:04] <littlepaul> http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/
[07:05] <lucasvo> django :P
[07:06] <littlepaul> right :)
[07:42] <Shodane> hi
[07:45] <Burgwork> hello
[07:45] <Burgwork> what brings you here?
[07:46] <Shodane> i was told i could get info about edubuntu here
[07:47] <Burgwork> indeed you can
[07:47] <Shodane> great ;)
[07:49] <Burgwork> there is also #edubuntu-de is you want to chat in german
[07:49] <Shodane> is there documentation for edubuntu? can't find it on your website...
[07:50] <Burgwork> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
[08:00] <Shodane> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Chapter_8_-_Server_Configuration
[08:00] <Shodane> hmmm
[08:01] <Burgwork> the cookbook is very much under development right now
[08:01] <Burgwork> and they are always looking for more people to help them
[08:01] <Shodane> hehe
[08:01] <Shodane> ok
[08:02] <Shodane> what kind of server do i need for approx. 15 clients?
[08:02] <Shodane> i've got an old computer somewhere but it's not great, i guess
[08:02] <mhz_lunch> Shodane: and you can also get info at #edubuntu-es :)
[08:02] <Shodane> sorry, no spanish ;)
[08:03] <ogra_ibook> Shodane, 128M per client and 256M for the server itself
[08:03] <mhz> ogra_ibook: we shold get that on the topic ;)
[08:03] <Shodane> i was told there's a german guy developing here? from the eifel?
[08:03] <ogra_ibook> Shodane, CPU, as fast as you can and not below 1Ghz i'd say
[08:03] <ogra_ibook> yupp, thats me
[08:04] <Shodane> hmm. it's probably fast enough then
[08:04] <ogra_ibook> mhz, sadly its to limited to add such long sentences
[08:04] <mhz> yup
[08:05] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, the install notes seem to indicate taht the default install includes a GUI
[08:05] <Shodane> delete the part about install notes ;)
[08:05] <ogra_ibook> Burgundavia, which install notes ? 
[08:05] <Shodane> or write it into the install notes
[08:05] <ogra_ibook> ours ? 
[08:06] <Shodane> it doesn't
[08:06] <Burgwork> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[08:06] <Shodane> ogra_ibook: dholbach sends me
[08:07] <ogra_ibook> ah, hi :)
[08:07] <Shodane> hi :)
[08:07] <ogra_ibook> Burgundavia, wher does it seem to be gui driven ? 
[08:08] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, if you read the <enter> part and then the server part, it seems to indicate taht the <enter> install method installs a gui
[08:08] <Burgwork> it should probably explicitily say whether or not it does
[08:08] <ogra_ibook> it installs a gui
[08:09] <ogra_ibook> by pressing enter the default install will install an Edubuntu-desktop and prepare an Edubuntu LTSP server
[08:09] <ogra_ibook> whats difficult with this sentence ? 
[08:10] <Burgwork> hmm, I will think of some better wording
[08:11] <ogra_ibook> i like it ... but offer something better :)
[08:11] <ogra_ibook> note that i fight for the "server" install to be renamed in dapper 
[08:12] <Burgwork> I will. I rarely bitch abut things that I am not willing to get fixed myself
[08:12] <ogra_ibook> its a minimal install and should be named accordingly
[08:13] <ogra_ibook> i'd also rather name "workstation" as "standalone workstation" but that appears to long to me
[08:13] <Burgwork> yes, it is too long
[08:13] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[08:14] <TOZAFK> The server install has no gui?
[08:15] <TOZTWO> Can you administer from on of the clients?
[08:15] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, so the assumption is that the teacher is working on the server itself?
[08:16] <neurogeek> mhz, pong
[08:16] <neurogeek> mhz, how is it going?
[08:16] <ogra_ibook> TOZTWO, the server install only installs a 100MB system, its only if you want to tailor the whole system yourself ..
[08:17] <ogra_ibook> TOZTWO, its something different to the default install that installs a edubuntu server and a edubuntu desktop
[08:17] <ogra_ibook> Burgwork, ltsp needs a installed desktop
[08:18] <ogra_ibook> Burgwork, you must have something you can log in to ;)#
[08:18] <ogra_ibook> Burgwork, having GDM running on the server does no harm either ... 
[08:19] <TOZTWO> I think I'll install the server version on my duron 900 and connect from my laptop to play around a bit.
[08:19] <Shodane> is gimp included? can't find it in the list
[08:19] <ogra_ibook> and indeed you can log in and to your admin tasks either on the server or from a client through the gui
[08:19] <ogra_ibook> Shodane, we include everything a default ubuntu brings
[08:19] <TOZTWO> GIMP is included.
[08:19] <ogra_ibook> so ooo2, gimp etc are there by default
[08:20] <Shodane> ah, ok. so i can choose the locale as well?
[08:20] <ogra_ibook> sure
[08:20] <mhz> neurogeek: sorry, fine, thax. (I had disabled the 'beep' while I slept :D )
[08:20] <ogra_ibook> we support all 90 languages ubuntu supports
[08:20] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, true, hadn't thought of that. My inexperience in thin clients shows
[08:20] <mhz> neurogeek: there is a venzuelan initiative I'd say you and your boss could take a look at
[08:21] <ogra_ibook> Burgwork, i doubt the product of your company works without desktop install on the central machine ;)
[08:21] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, given we don't have a server and use X to do multihead, yes
[08:21] <ogra_ibook> :)
[08:22] <neurogeek> mhz, tell me..
[08:22] <mhz> neurogeek: ttp://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Notes:Article
[08:22] <mhz> neurogeek: not that, sorry
[08:22] <neurogeek> ogra_ibook, how are you?
[08:22] <neurogeek> :D
[08:22] <mhz> neurogeek: http://educacion.solve.net.ve/index.php/Portada
[08:22] <ogra_ibook> neurogeek, fine, thanks
[08:23] <mhz> neurogeek: http://educacion.solve.net.ve/index.php/EDUVEN_Propuestas
[08:23] <neurogeek> mhz, yeah.. i know about that... 
[08:23] <mhz> neurogeek: okis
[08:24] <neurogeek> mhz, solve is a brand new institution for free software in Venezuela
[08:24] <Shodane> can the server be administrated via web interface?
[08:25] <ogra_ibook> nope
[08:25] <neurogeek> but .. there are a lot of "articuladores" (as you'd say) in there.. so.. proyects always ends before their start
[08:25] <mhz> neurogeek: right now there are two things I am using 70% of my time (Feria de Tecnologia Libre y Educacion + Workshops and Courses on TicEdu for Teachers)
[08:25] <mhz> neurogeek: hehehehehhee
[08:25] <ogra_ibook> Shodane, but from every thin client 
[08:25] <mhz> damn!
[08:27] <Shodane> ogra_ibook: is nfs enabled by default? can i add users via batch job? (i've been trying to do that with windows, that's not that easy ;))
[08:27] <mhz> neurogeek: in Pereira, Colombia, Luis Guerra is also helping me to maybe have some sort of Ubuntu Tour or maybe even the same Feria in similar dates
[08:28] <mhz> neurogeek: would you be interested too? would Strusberg be into it?
[08:29] <neurogeek> mhz, of course... absolutely.. count on that
[08:29] <neurogeek> when would that be??
[08:29] <mhz> neurogeek: for Chile, we are thinking of March-April
[08:29] <mhz> for Colombia, maybe same dates
[08:29] <neurogeek> that would be nice
[08:30] <neurogeek> yeah.. count on that
[08:30] <mhz> Our dream/goal is Chile -> Colombia -> Venezuela -> Argentina -> Brazil
[08:30] <mhz> and FLISOL is also near that dates
[08:30] <mhz> and there's a GNOME event in Brazil too by those dates
[08:31] <mhz> so... Why not do a very VERY intensive agenda
[08:31] <mhz> to kick off 2006!
[08:31] <neurogeek> mhz, yeah.. i think i will be in FLISOL this year.. 
[08:31] <mhz> and have a kind of LA power show
[08:31] <mhz> :)
[08:31] <neurogeek> mhz, excellent.. we (RS and me) are very interested in those things.. and better if we do it together .. the better
[08:32] <ogra_ibook> Shodane, nfs is the base of ltsp, so it is indeed enabled, adding users from a list would require a bit of shell scripting 
[08:32] <mhz> neurogeek: so far, only Luis Guerra and I have been talking to people in each country
[08:32] <mhz> neurogeek: i am actually working at this very moment on a doc about it
[08:33] <neurogeek> great
[08:33] <TOZTWO> OMG!
[08:33] <mhz> so, I guees I'll have it done in 2 ours
[08:33] <Burgwork> ogra_ibook, however, there are plans to integrate our stuff with ltsp
[08:33] <mhz> hours
[08:33] <mhz> neurogeek: for you and RS to read it
[08:33] <neurogeek> mhz: ah.. BTW i haven't forgotten about the moin stuff.. i've done some things but haven't had the time to finish it.. i'll be on it soon enough
[08:33] <TOZTWO> mhz: You speack Spanish/Portugese?
[08:34] <mhz> neurogeek: thx
[08:34] <mhz> TOZTWO: I am Chilean, and neurogeek is Venezuelan
[08:34] <neurogeek> when you finish it.. send it to me to my mail
[08:34] <mhz> :D
[08:34] <neurogeek> TOZTWO, yeah.. Spanish
[08:34] <mhz> okis
[08:34] <mhz> TOZTWO: and we have #edubuntu-es
[08:34] <mhz> :D
[08:34] <TOZTWO> After I get my first lab up and running, I might be doing some labs in Mexico.
[08:34] <mhz> TOZTWO: wow!
[08:34] <mhz> cool
[08:35] <neurogeek> great!!
[08:35] <mhz> neurogeek: we also have a ML
[08:36] <mhz> and I am wiking info about Edubuntu-es and Ubuntu for Chile in ubuntu-cl.org
[08:37] <mherweg> hi sven-tek
[08:37] <sven-tek> hi martin
[08:38] <mhz> neurogeek: tienen algun curso en Moodle or Claroiline I could take a look ?
[08:44] <mhz> neurogeek: ?
[09:07] <mhz_wiking> neurogeek: ?
[09:11] <Shodane> ogra_ibook: re. can users be installed via batch job?
[09:11] <ogra_ibook> yes, with a little shellscript
[09:11] <Shodane> is it documented?
[09:12] <ogra_ibook> nope
[09:13] <ogra_ibook> but basically you can do it with a handfull of lines, i'm pretty sure google will give you a lot of hits for a shellscript you can use
[09:13] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: I am sure there's a unix command to do that
[09:13] <mhz_wiking> can you wait for me (5 to 10 mins)
[09:13] <ogra_ibook> not for a list of users
[09:14] <spacey_ki> if you have so many users you might want to use ldap
[09:14] <Shodane> i've never understood ldap...
[09:14] <spacey_ki> still need shell script to add users from a list ofcourse:)
[09:15] <ogra_ibook> and likely some lines longer :)
[09:15] <Shodane> if the users are just regular users, i can write a script myself. thought they'd be some kinda special users
[09:15] <spacey_ki> why are they special?
[09:15] <spacey_ki> or whats special about them
[09:16] <Shodane> well nothing apparently
[09:16] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: found it
[09:16] <mhz_wiking> Page 118 on Linux Cookbook, by Oreilly
[09:16] <Shodane> ok, thx
[09:17] <mhz_wiking> 'mass_passwd'
[09:17] <ogra_ibook> we'll have tools for such stuff in the future, if more developers jump in
[09:17] <mhz_wiking> 'mass_useradd'
[09:17] <Shodane> hm, i'll try it out first ;)
[09:18] <mhz_wiking> $ sh mass_useradd < newusers > newlogins.txt
[09:19] <ogra_ibook> mhz_wiking, and what *is* mass_useradd ? 
[09:19] <ogra_ibook> you also need the program/script ...
[09:19] <mhz_wiking> yup
[09:19] <mhz_wiking> it's a script there, in the book :)
[09:19] <mhz_wiking> I ignore if it's available somewhere in a repo
[09:20] <mhz_wiking> I hope so
[09:20] <mhz_wiking> but many oreilly books are available via on line
[09:20] <Shodane> http://www.tuxcomputing.com/cookbook/mass_useradd
[09:20] <Shodane> there's one
[09:21] <Shodane> k
[09:21] <mhz_wiking> or else, I could write those 20 or so lines at night time
[09:21] <mhz_wiking> (chilean night time :) )
[09:22] <Shodane> actually, what i'd prefer is an empty password and a dialog which forces the user to set a password at first login, like windows does...
[09:22] <Shodane> is chilean night time longer than elsewhere?
[09:22] <mhz_wiking> hehehe
[09:23] <mhz_wiking> nope
[09:23] <Shodane> =)
[09:23] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: well, the book has a section for that case too
[09:24] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: it seems the script is exactly the one in the url!
[09:24] <mhz_wiking> good
[09:25] <Shodane> cool
[09:25] <Shodane> how about the other section then? maybe that one's online as well
[09:25] <mhz_wiking> heheh
[09:25] <mhz_wiking> okis
[09:26] <Shodane> 44 euros, that's too much for me right now
[09:26] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: I'd bet it is available on PDF
[09:26] <Shodane> dunno
[09:27] <ogra_ibook> make sure that the script doesnt start at UID 1000, thats the admin user you created on install
[09:28] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: after you run useradd, simply run $ passwd -e the_user
[09:29] <mhz_wiking> that will expire the password at first login, forcing the user to change it
[09:31] <mhz_wiking> Shodane: i hope that helps somehow
[09:32] <Shodane> yeah, i'll just set "hello" as the pw :)
[09:34] <Shodane> i guess i know enough for now, thanks. i'll be back as soon as i've installed the server :)
[09:35] <mhz_wiking> good luck
[09:41] <mhz_wiking> southfoxargentin: bienvendio