=== LaserJock_away is now known as LaserJock === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-124-71.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chiddy [n=chiddy@69-162-17-32.stcgpa.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] ogra_ibook: around? [12:18] sure === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:22] http://jon.oxer.com.au//blog/id/79 [12:24] jdub, that makes about 8 books underway or published [12:25] is there a page with the books listed? [12:25] not currently but I can make one [12:26] do you have the new Eyrolles one on your list? [12:26] Burgwork: is ubuntu hacks in the oreilly hacks series? [12:26] ah, it is [12:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBooks [12:26] it's listed [12:27] i didn't realise that annoying french guy wrote a version of his "moving to..." book about ubuntu [12:28] is "annoying" something you put automatically before "french guy"? :p [12:29] seb128: no, in this case he really is [12:29] marcel gagne [12:29] he abuses his frenchness [12:29] I you say so, I don't know him [12:29] ah [12:30] to give you an impression [12:30] his articles are all about bad food and wine metaphors to linux/foss === mpt [n=mpt@203-167-187-170.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-25-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:30] and he throws in a bunch of french about as usefully as i did at montreal [12:30] I see :) [12:30] not just bad, terrible [12:31] aww haw haw! je ne sais pas! madamoiselle! oui oui! [12:31] seb128: dude, i'm going to be doing spanish lessons. :-) [12:31] un vrai abruti :p === seb128 runs [12:32] haha [12:32] jdub: need them for next Ubuntu tour? [12:33] seb128: one of the girls up the hallway is a tastefully well-endowed uruguayan, who we'll be having "group sessions" with. [12:33] ;-) [12:33] jdub: btw are you going to the distro team week coming? [12:33] rofl === jcape [i=jcape@71.194.176.102] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:33] seb128: nup [12:34] :( [12:35] but you come at fosdem right? [12:36] yup! [12:36] ah, nice :) === freestone [i=j1@dwin-wlan-191.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chninkel is now known as chninkel_away === crimsun_ [n=crimsun@wireless-nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === reda_ea [n=reda@adsl196-160-83-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === reda_ea [n=reda@adsl196-160-83-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === psusi [n=phreak@54.161.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:26] anyone ever debug a coredump from a multithreaded program? I was trying to do that today and gdb was showing complete nonsense for the register content of the other threads === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:31] psusi: if its a single cpu machine, only one thread can have register contents [01:32] the rest will be in process control blocks [01:32] (I forget the exact linux term) [01:34] well, yea, they are't in real hardware registers, but gdb knows that and should be getting them from the thread control block where they are stored [01:35] hell, the registers for the thread that crashed aren't in real hardware registers either... they are in the coredump file ;) [01:36] so I'm thinking that I am missing something obvious you need to do to get gdb to understand the multithreaded coredump right, or get the process to generate a correct multithreaded coredump === kwa [n=kyle@adsl-69-230-109-39.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:49] c === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.9] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:06] http://raw-output.org/20060113/solutions [02:17] heh [02:18] http://raw-output.org/20051103/the-real-threat-for-debian is funnier :) [02:23] they spelt it wrong [02:23] its 'grumpy' [02:23] that post is months old === kwa [n=kyle@adsl-69-230-109-39.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:42] mdz: please promote to main cdrdao (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportCdrdao), ttf-arphic-uming (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportTtfarphicuming), ttf-arphic-ukai (http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportTtfarphicukai) [02:45] Amaranth, i really like gentu heh [02:46] Riddell: did pitti approve the reports already? [02:47] mdz: yes [02:48] Riddell: cdrdao is already in main [02:48] though it build-depends on pccts, which is not in main [02:48] pccts doesn't seem to have a report yet [02:48] promoted the font packages [02:49] oops, sorry, will look into that === lucasd [n=lucas@200.209.160.94] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:00] will dapper have support to winmodens? [03:00] some [03:01] no conexant or whatever the name is though [03:01] which seems to be the most common [03:01] hm, I see.. [03:01] just that one? [03:01] no [03:01] lots [03:02] only a couple of others work that didn't in breezy [03:02] hmmm [03:02] there was a thread on u-d about it awhile ago [03:02] I'll look for it [03:02] thanks ;) === marcin [n=user@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487EF26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:04] I may or may not try to get slmodem support into dapper, depending on how much effort it turns out to be. [03:05] But at least we got ltmodem in, which seems to make some people happy. [03:05] (Or, rather, not having it in breezy made some people angry, so I'm assuming they're now happy) === stub [n=stub@gb.ja.96.108.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:06] hehe === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ahuman01 [n=ahuman01@141.151.73.184] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:19] is hal-device-manager broken for everyone right now (dapper)? === lucasd [n=lucas@200.209.160.94] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:31] mdz: please promote kthesaurus to main, part of koffice [03:55] bugzilla migration day today [04:01] weee === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:03] jamesh: fun :) [04:12] jamesh: hoorah === FireRabbit [n=FireRabb@c-67-183-18-60.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:25] mdz: does malone mean the death of debzilla? === mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:41] daniels: we'll be working on a debzilla equivalent [04:42] jamesh: phat, thanks [04:42] also, in other news, accelerated indirect support just got committed to xserver/xorg CVS [04:43] daniels, what does that mean in practical terms? [04:43] Burgundavia: accelerated OpenGL for remote programs, for one. [04:45] right [04:46] daniels: is there an open bug about ALPS touchpads slowing down again? [04:46] / known ? [04:47] daniels: did you see my xorg logs? still don't have touchpad love [04:47] Lathiat: yes [04:48] jdub: yes, they're flagged [04:48] daniels: known or bug? if bug, url? [04:49] daniels: thanks [04:50] Lathiat: bug, don't have it offhand, sorry [04:50] Lathiat: basically the solution is to multiply your accel factor by 1.5 (IIRC) [04:51] yeh i did up some custom attributed in xorg.conf [04:52] actually, hm [04:52] jdub: can you please resend or put them up quickly? [04:56] Burgundavia: man, I don't think I could disagree with you more over the walkman thing. The mail I was replying to was commenting on how the walkman had you hold two buttons down at once to pause it. [04:57] I don't think anything on a physical device should translate into a GNOME music player UI [04:57] floam, I am not saying replicate the whole UI. I am saying that those bits which work and keep them [04:57] I assume you got my reply and the comment about gnome-cd [04:57] yes I did [04:58] which does a pretty good emulation of a physical CD player [04:58] daniels: hrm [04:58] actually, gnome-cd fits into the "later and crappier" cd players I was talking about [04:58] jdub: i thought it was an email, but I can't seem to find it now [04:58] the walkman never played cds [04:59] floam, media player then [04:59] floam: actually, the discman and md lines were rebranded to walkman [04:59] the walkman "ui" wouldn't work too well for anything with tracks, I don't think [04:59] daniels: 'twas [04:59] floam, a singel big button is great [04:59] daniels: oh, really? [04:59] floam: indeed [04:59] Burgundavia: I agree [04:59] jdub: yeah, what I have from you is ati and fglrx, not touchpad [05:00] floam, that is the functionality I was talking about regarding a walkman, not lots of buttons the same size [05:00] daniels: oh, you want logs of the two different drivers? neither work [05:00] Burgundavia: I thought the discussion was going on about the label changing? [05:00] floam, that was part of it [05:00] and then a guy brought up that a label (obviously) can't change on a walkman, which toggles in [05:01] jdub: i already have logs from both ati and fglrx from you, but nothing about touchpads ;) got xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed? (i.e. not xorg-driver-synaptics) [05:01] floam, that is a restriction of the format (a piece of plastic) [05:01] and I think that basing your UI on the limitations of a plastic player, even if correct in one situation, is a sort of bad thing to begin doing often [05:01] Burgundavia: absolutely [05:02] daniels: yeah [05:02] floam, that is not what i am saying. I am saying lets look at what works on physical media players and see if they can be applied to Muine. [05:02] Burgundavia: sure. [05:02] floam, sorry if I was not clear. Anyway, we should stop filling the logs on this channel [05:02] Burgundavia: I was really commenting on that guy and his one situation [05:03] Burgundavia: it seemed to me in your email that you wanted to use the walkman as the ultimate GNOME UI for a music player for all circumstances, which sort of worried me [05:03] perhaps I read it too quickly [05:03] floam, likely I was not complete enough in my explanation [05:03] log filling done [05:03] :) === rikai [n=gtk2@pool-64-222-246-38.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:21] jdub, would you call Xubuntu a partner project ala Kubuntu and Edubuntu? [05:23] Burgundavia: well, not really [05:23] mostly [05:23] but not in an officialish kind of support way [05:24] jdub, I am writing a piece of partner projects and derived distros and am thus stuck with Xubuntu. It sort of falls into the middle [05:26] "community" partner? [05:26] ick [05:26] It's developed and integrated in the same way (ie: hosted entirely in the Ubuntu archive), but maintained entirely by volunteers and not supported by Canonical. === rajasun [n=maximusp@bb220-255-204-181.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:26] the base is supported but not the de [05:26] heh [05:26] Burgundavia: 'community supported ubuntu derivative' [05:26] That works. [05:27] jsgotangco: You take away the desktop and you don't have Xubuntu anymore, you have Ubuntu, so the distinction of what is and isn't supported is a bit meaningless. :) [05:28] jdub, but that wording could also apply to Nexenta and nUbuntu [05:29] Burgundavia: indeed, that is its beauty [05:30] one term to rule them all? [05:30] heh [05:31] jdub, but Nexenta has a company behind it and Guadelinex has a government [05:31] Okay, this kernel bug has finally irritated me enough to figure it out. [05:31] Having music skip when I'm compiling is unacceptable. [05:31] Burgundavia: so simplify [05:31] jdub, classify it as simply an Ubuntu derivative? [05:32] sure [05:32] Where the files are hosted may be technically relevant, but doesn't really matter to end users. [05:33] So, a derivative is a derviative, regardless of where they download it from. [05:33] jdub, the other issue is that xubuntu.org redirects to ubuntu.com === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mortas [n=kris@217.148.89.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:35] Burgundavia: i figure the admins will fix that when the xubuntu dudes are ready [05:36] jdub, ok. will we fix it for the utubnu people too? [05:37] i dunno, nor do i know if they've requested it === milli_ [n=milli@phantom.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-125-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BxL [n=BxL@modemcable097.172-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:14] morning === _maydayjay_ [n=maydayja@ip101109.101.nas.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-76-186.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:56] hm [06:56] it seems like some change in GTK recently made my filechooser default to my ~/Documents dir. Is there a way to set the default? gconf? [06:56] in dapper, last few days [06:57] floam, see the thread on -desktop [06:57] sadly that is currrently hardcoded I believe === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:57] oh, maybe not [06:57] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-January/004624.html [06:58] if GTK_DEFAULT_FILECHOOSE_DIR can be set in the environment === BxL [n=BxL@modemcable097.172-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] [06:58] ... which it can't. === infinity does the "I think I found the stupid bug" dance. [07:09] Or, at least, found another bug, and it may be the last one... === infinity does more glibc test builds and prays. === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@wbs-196-2-105-30.wbs.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rikai [n=gtk2@pool-64-222-246-38.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jamesstansell [n=stansell@pm1-ded.ppp179.tulsaconnect.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@gb.ja.98.62.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === infinity [n=adconrad@203-214-69-18.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:42] is the progress on the conversion from bugzilla to malone being tracked anywhere? === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nnonix [n=nnonix@t42.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:22] morning pitti [08:22] Hi ajmitch [08:22] good morning [08:23] pitti is here. [08:23] oh, what a pitti [08:23] pitti; will you be merging any new hal versions for dapper? [08:23] errr pity [08:23] ;) === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:29] pitti; wb, G. [08:29] one crash later...good morning take #2 [08:29] hi desrt [08:30] my question: will you be merging a new hal version for dapper? [08:30] desrt: I hope that 0.5.6 will come out soon enough [08:30] desrt: Friday 19th is UVF [08:31] nod. [08:31] on the list it sounded as if it could make it earlier [08:31] 19th is thursday [08:31] i saw you on the hal list kicking ass [08:32] we don't have bugs!! if we do, prove it!! [08:32] uh. that took about 5 seconds and grep. [08:33] ehehhe [08:33] pitti: you rock dude [08:33] heh [08:33] fabbione; be careful about what USB keys you go plugging into your ubuntu system. some of them can crash hald :) === pitti does the linux distro quiz: debian, kubuntu, ubuntu [08:34] desrt: usually you can exploit these kind of bugs to execute arbitrary code, too [08:34] desrt: fix hald :) [08:34] pitti; right. any sort of buffer smashing.... [08:34] pitti; are our stacks executable? [08:35] fabbione: well, my main point is to keep it as confined as it is ATM, then I don't care so much about these bugs [08:35] pitti; you really substantially improve your position with non-executable stacks [08:35] desrt: yes, but that one was a heap overflow [08:35] ah === desrt read alloca() for some reason [08:35] desrt: I'm aware of that, and I so much look forward to switch to gcc 4.1 with ssp/fortify [08:36] pitti: me too [08:36] desrt: nonexecutable stack always requires external patches, a bit tricky to get that approved for main [08:36] pitti: oh, and G'day :) [08:36] pitti; or cpu support [08:36] desrt: that's why grsec rocks so much, one patch to cover it all :) [08:36] pitti: gcc-4.1 will have ssp/fortify upstream? [08:37] hey Yagisan [08:37] fabbione: s/will have/has for a while/ [08:37] fabbione: yes, finally [08:37] pitti: ok :) [08:37] fabbione: their own version (non-ibm developed) yes [08:37] pitti: will it be on by default when ready ? [08:37] i wonder how bad is going to break on non i386 arches [08:39] fabbione: not much it seems amd64 has 0 performance impact from it. pitti, do you remember if the ibm ssp patch broke on non-i386 ? I don't think it did === desrt watches pitti upload gcc 4.1 cvs to main [08:39] Yagisan: even if it's not on by default upstream, I will fight for enabling it in Ubuntu :) [08:39] fabbione: i386 gets a small performance hit, because of lack of registers, other should be ok [08:40] Yagisan: I didn't hear stories about breakage; also, SSP is so old and proven, I don't expect many problems [08:40] pitti: please please do. Fight hard [08:40] it's not that this would be an innovation, several other distros use it for literally years [08:40] Yagisan: i am not worried about performances.. really.. [08:41] pitti: it will really be a good improvement in dapper+1 [08:42] yes, it was rejected for dapper due to its long support cycle [08:42] but then it's time to rock the house again :) [08:42] :( boo [08:42] :) [08:42] Yagisan: it's hard to put something new & untested in dapper though [08:43] ajmitch: this reminds me of when I had this discussion for breezy .... === jouston [n=jouston@59-105-136-199.adsl.static.seed.net.tw] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [08:43] Yagisan: I know.. [08:44] I would have liked 4.1 to be ready & tested so we could trust dapper with it [08:44] ajmitch: universe ? [08:45] there's been no 4.1 release that I've seen [08:46] mako, any chance of pushing through my mail to -news from a couple of weeks back? [08:47] ajmitch: I like to call it cvs ;) but this should really be on by default - esp for servers, firewalls, it's a good selling point. [08:48] hi doko [08:48] pitti: good morning [08:48] Yagisan: sure, that's what I would like ;) [08:48] morning doko [08:49] G'day doko === ajmitch wonders if doko's irc client was highlighting on gcc :) [08:52] ajmitch, pitti - so after ssp, pax or similar next ? [08:52] ajmitch: only if ssp doesn't match in a ten line context :) [08:53] Yagisan: I for my part love PaX; there was a lot of bitching about exec-shield, but I'm no expert to say for myself whether that's justified [08:53] Yagisan: what do you say? You should be an expert :) [08:54] pitti: pax is technically better, but lags kernel releases. Will never go upstream [08:54] doko: nearly all universe zope packages have been requested as syncs now, so we have little deviation - just some debian packages that don't use zope-debhelper still :) [08:54] pitti: execsheild is pushed by red had [08:54] Yagisan: will any stack protection go upstrem? it's high time for sth like this IMHO [08:54] pitti: they also maintain glibc - so they pushed it in [08:54] Yagisan: reminds me of the discussion in sydney :) [08:56] pitti, ajmitch: exec sheild will get in, because red hat pushes it, and has already begun digging it into glibc, not because it is better, but because they have more kernel and glibc hackers [08:57] pitti, ajmitch: and there will continue to be pax vs exec sheild flames [08:57] and PaX lost a fair bit of momentum with that hole that was discovered, and that no mainstream distro carries it as default [08:58] ajmitch: exec sheild also has been discovered to not provide as much protection - diff is pax was more upfront [08:58] hm, sad [08:59] and exec-shield cannot be improved? [08:59] ajmitch, pitti: that particular pax issue only effected i586 and earlier boxes [08:59] pitti: it's a design issue :( [09:00] Yagisan: sure, but it didn't help them much [09:00] the technically superior design is often not the one that succeeds === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:03] ajmitch: I know - that's why there is windows :( [09:03] bbl - bye all [09:03] see you later [09:05] Right. [09:06] Finally got moin sorted out. === StevenK was evil, and decided to package 1.5.0 before Debian did. [09:06] great [09:06] what installation method does it use? [09:07] StevenK: you probably got my nag email then :) === mdke has never tried installing moin via a package [09:08] mdke: It just stuffs everything underneath /usr/share/moin. It up to you to copy it out to the moin's. [09:08] 1.5.0 is way slicker. [09:08] what about the webserver? [09:09] The config of the webserver is up to you too. [09:09] ok === jamesstansell [n=stansell@pm1-ded.ppp179.tulsaconnect.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:10] Today is Rex Manning^W^WMalone Day? [09:11] quick, seb128, fix all your bugs before you have to deal with them in malone :) === pitti -> breakfast === Mez doesnt like the way malone lists bugs [09:18] Mez, you are not the only one. It is something I have seen nearly every bug reporter/triager complain about [09:19] Burgundavia, I remember it being bitched about at UBZ lol - I think by Scott ... [09:19] lol - it's very annoying and i hope moving bugzilla to malone will make people realise it's horrible [09:19] bring back the old way [09:19] you could actually sort the columns on the fly in the old table [09:19] I told bradb exactly why the new layout sucked at UBZ [09:19] I know :'( [09:20] because you cant get any information out of it quickly ? [09:20] ok, it looks "purdy" but it's not useful === carlos [n=carlos@71.Red-83-37-55.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:21] it expect malone to move quickly once the distro team starts using it === Yvonne [n=YR@pdpc/supporter/active/Yvonne] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vurdak [n=vurdak@151.56.83.126] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] Burgundavia: the plan is to tie bradb to a chair, and force him to code at gunpoint [09:22] without the luxury of the girl in his lap, either [09:22] ehehe [09:22] Keybuk - wouldnt it be very hard to code with a girl in your lap ? [09:23] Keybuk, can I help buy the ropes? I might start doing bug triage again [09:26] tsk, clearly Mez has never seen Swordfish === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:28] uhm, I'm apparently clueless. How do I close a bug in malone? [09:28] oh, I could click the status. [09:28] it's _obvious_ that orange stuff is a link [09:28] *sigh* [09:30] yeah, great isn't it [09:30] that's a Markism [09:30] at least the UI *probably* won't radically change every 2-3 weeks now [09:30] ajmitch: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [09:30] ;) [09:31] I know, I shouldn't be an optimist [09:31] oh and orange on orange is a great way to display text === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-152-212.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:33] ajmitch: it hasn't radically changed in a long time [09:33] jamesh: certain parts of launchpad have changed a bit in confusing ways recently [09:34] Keybuk: I'm considering just writing xml-rpc helpers and custom stylesheets for stuff I actually want to do. [09:34] Mithrandir: and it looks like mpt has just made a commit to make the unconfirmed status text easier to read [09:34] Yes, like the statuses of bugs. [09:34] jamesh: well, I would like something like "edit bug" or "change status" or something in the list of actions on the right hand side. [09:35] Mithrandir: sure. [09:35] Mithrandir: it would probably be in the table though: you can have multiple rows in that "fix requested in" table. [09:36] ajmitch: heh, I for my part hope that the UI will change soon, to make it a smaller clickfest [09:37] pitti: as long as I don't spend 10 minutes trying to figure out what to click :) [09:38] Mithrandir: heh, it's not that bad once you get used to it [09:38] Mithrandir: we'll probably have RDF dumps of bug info at some point, which could help. [09:38] it's certainly no worse than, e.g. Bugzilla [09:38] but it's no debbugs [09:39] thank god it's no debbugs. [09:39] Keybuk: but bugzilla is really, really bad. :-) [09:39] jamesh: debbugs is _excellent_ from the developer's point of view. [09:39] Mithrandir: don't worry. I just had bad experiences with older versions of debbugs. === stub [n=stub@gb.ja.98.62.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:39] Keybuk: It takes a lot of getting used to though. [09:40] hunger: so does Bugzilla :-/ [09:40] Mithrandir: we used to use it for Gnome [09:40] hunger: well.. I don't care if it takes time to get used to, when I'm going to spend half my time trawling through it. [09:40] jamesh: to be fair, the version you used for gnome was ancient and not even set up properly! [09:40] Keybuk: Bugzilla is *WAY* less confusing. [09:40] Mithrandir, an awful to quickly parse information in the web interface === Keybuk hates Bugzilla with a passion [09:41] bugzilla pages seem to take a lot longer to load compared to Launchpad bug pages for me. [09:41] Keybuk: That following the bug link takes me to different places depending on where I started keeps confusing me without end. [09:41] (for bugzilla.ubuntu.com, that is) [09:41] Malone's editing sucks right now though [09:41] it needs an edit-everything-in-one-place makeover, preferably with edit-and-read-everything-in-one-place === hunger agrees with Keybuk. [09:42] currently the bugzilla list view kicks the crap out of malones [09:42] yeah that needs to be improved too [09:43] the old way was much better [09:43] with the sortable tables, one bug per one line === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:43] mv #ubuntu-devel #beat-on-malone [09:44] the trouble with the sortables in Malone is they got way too big [09:44] you know what is really really sad. I (and others) have been saying this for ages and *nothing* has been done [09:44] you needed an ultra-high-res widescreen laptop to read them [09:44] Keybuk, the final version before they canned it wasn't bad [09:44] Burgundavia: that's sadly a general lp problem, it takes a long time to persuade the developers that they're wrong and the users are right :D [09:44] and then a few months later, they change it back anyway [09:44] and you had to beat them up [09:44] like bradb trying to break the e-mails again [09:45] I remember the instant that tables change happening, ajmitch, myself and others bitching out the lp devs about it === StevenK wonders who he needs to tie to a chair and threaten at gunpoint to get his @u.c e-mail address working. [09:45] I think lp is great, it just need serious UI work [09:45] Burgundavia: So far I only saw the UI and did not like it a bit. [09:46] Burgundavia: yeah, jbailey and I had fun at UBZ with the UI ... it's improved a bit since then [09:46] the navigation almost makes some sense now [09:46] though the pages still feel sqashed [09:46] Keybuk, I was there when you presented your idea. I liked it [09:46] Burgundavia: Try viewing it in IE for the full viewing fun. [09:46] Burgundavia: though you're not always right ;) you're wrong about how e-mails should be sent, for example [09:47] Keybuk, I never pretend to be always right. I simply argue what I think is best [09:47] :p [09:48] Keybuk, at least the emailing doesn't break threads like it used to [09:49] we do need to get some of the mailing list configs fixed to work with LP emails though === vurdak is away: I'm currently away, please leave a message [09:50] jamesh, is there a "high priority, must fix because otherwise the distro team will kill us" bug list? [09:50] jamesh: will Malone send all "main" package bugs to the ubuntu-bugs list? [09:52] Keybuk: that's something that needs to be fixed up. We don't have a "distro component bug contact" idea. Just initial contacts for packages, products and distributions [09:53] Keybuk: Burgundavia there is a 1.1 milestone for stuff we want to get fixed soon. It would be good to bring up the requests on #launchpad or launchpad-users [09:54] jamesh, ok [09:55] jamesh, https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+milestone/1.1/+index [09:55] ^ should I have access to that page? === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@210-246-37-185.paradise.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:58] Burgundavia: weird. [09:58] Burgundavia: sounds like an issue with private bugs [09:58] jamesh, hmm, ugly [10:02] StevenK: AIUI all new @u.c e-mails are broken at the moment due to some script having broken due to a launchpad change; James said he'd rather fix the script than fix individual people's addresses === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1CFE.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:03] good morning [10:03] dholbach! [10:03] dholbach, you saying good morning means it is way too late for me to be up. Night all [10:03] night Burgundavia [10:03] night Burgundavia [10:03] hey jsgotangco [10:03] night [10:04] Kamion: the problem was with people setting their preferred email address in LP to an @u.c address [10:05] Kamion: which is a problem if the @u.c addresses were acting as redirects to the user's preferred address in LP [10:05] dholbach: any idea about 16216? It's not a locales issue. [10:07] Mithrandir: we have a bunch of those, and to be honest: i have no idea what goes wrong [10:08] dholbach: it appears to be a bug in the calendar control, since I can reproduce it using glade. === vuntz_ [n=vuntz@volin.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:11] Mithrandir: let me try to find the bug where upstream told us it was no g* bug :) [10:12] dholbach: please do [10:17] hmm, apparently, our locales are broken in that respect === lionelp [n=lionel@10.21.96-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:18]