[12:15] <lfittl> LaserJock: I am thinking about moving all comments from Requests to the Comments section, what do you think?
[12:16] <LaserJock> lfittl: well, I don't know. I haven't quite figured out what the Comments section is for
[12:17] <lfittl> LaserJock: It is for additional packaging information to speed up the packaging process
[12:19] <LaserJock> lfittl: but why wouldn't that be in the comments in the Requests section?
[12:22] <LaserJock> lfittl: but we really need to get UniverseCandidates off the wiki I think, that would make it much simpler
[12:23] <lfittl> LaserJock: that would be the best thing, I simply wanted to make it easier to find software that could be packaged before UVF
[12:24] <LaserJock> lfittl: well, I think you definately made it better looking
[12:24] <lfittl> :)
[12:57] <Kyral> Anyone know when this "E Gnome" thing got added to the GDM (I didn't do it)
[01:58] <Kyral> ooo I love upstreams who email me patches :D
[02:00] <ajmitch> Kyral: even better, I like upstream that I can sit down & have a beer with
[02:00] <Kyral> lol
[02:01] <Kyral> I cannot drink yet :P
[02:01] <ajmitch> yeah, you can do anything but drink..
[02:02] <ajmitch> vote, enlist in the army, drive.. but not drink even a light beer ;#0
[02:03] <Kyral> lol
[02:04] <ajmitch> but in a week or so I should be sitting down with the main upstream developer of 1 of my packages for a beer
[02:06] <Kyral> nice
[02:09] <Kyral> Is it normal for Python based programs to be called Debian Native?
[02:09] <Kyral> oh wait I saw what happened...
[02:10] <Kyral> I patched the source with the diff that upstream gave me
[02:10] <Kyral> and the orig.tgz is off
[02:17] <Kyral> I forgot I set a watchfile for this one X_X
[02:28] <Kyral> yah...lintain is complaing about the no orig..
[02:44] <LaserJock> Kyral: so are you using uscan?
[02:45] <Kyral> LaserJock: Yah I was, but I rememebered that a split second after I did dpkg-buildpackage :P
[02:46] <LaserJock> I don't quite understand what it is used for
[02:48] <Kyral> Uscan?
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:50] <Kyral> It checks (using debian/watch) for new upstream versions, downloads them, patches them, etc
[02:51] <LaserJock> ok, I guess I can see where that might be useful, I would probably just screw my computer up with it ;-)
[02:51] <Kyral> lol
[02:53] <LaserJock> I'm trying to start using bzr/svn so I can recover when I screw up
[02:55] <Kyral> lol
[02:56] <Kyral> I just setup an Apt Repo for my Linux lab's Build for our custom packages
[02:56] <Kyral> with the ability to upload with dput :D
[03:03] <LaserJock> Kyral: cool
[03:03] <Kyral> Now if I could only get it setup to build source packages...
[03:04] <Kyral> hey slomo_
[03:05] <tseng> it is 3 am in germany
[03:05] <tseng> nice try
[03:05] <tseng> his client is rejoining probably
[03:06] <Kyral> oh he lives in Germany?
[03:06] <tseng> yes.
[03:06] <Kyral> cool, didn't know that :P
[03:10] <LaserJock> Maybe he just needed a late night Ubuntu snack ;-)
[03:10] <Kyral> lol
[03:11] <LaserJock> ya know, some of us have to have Ubuntu IVs to keep going
[03:11] <psusi> why is it that revu denies access to all .changes files?
[03:12] <Kyral> Actually I was wondering that myself...
[03:16] <LaserJock> yeah, the .changes are -rw-------
[03:16] <psusi> why is this?
[03:17] <LaserJock> you'd probably have to ask siretart or sistpoty
[03:18] <LaserJock> I really don't know, would there be any reason for it?
[03:19] <tseng> there is
[03:19] <tseng> if a MOTU uploaded a signed changes to revu
[03:19] <tseng> anyone could ftp it to ubuntu ftp-master and get it in
[03:19] <tseng> when it wasnt meant to be uploaded yet
[03:19] <LaserJock> tseng: oh, thanks
[03:20] <psusi> the only thing the ftp master checks is that the .changes is signed?
[03:20] <psusi> it doesn't need a username/password or something?
[03:20] <tseng> psusi: signed by a key in its keyright
[03:20] <tseng> keyring
[03:20] <psusi> hrm....
[03:20] <tseng> ie, a MOTU
[03:20] <psusi> well that kind of sucks... I want to see what they changed ;)
[03:20] <tseng> see the debdiff..
[03:20] <psusi> ahhh
[03:21] <tseng> .changes is just some md5 and a changelog
[03:21] <tseng> not a diff
[03:21] <psusi> is there a way to make bash's history behave sanely?  i.e. when i scroll up 8 commands and execute it again, next I want to hit down and get the command after that, and so on
[03:22] <tseng> er
[03:22] <Lathiat> psusi: thats not sanely imho :)
[03:22] <tseng> yeah
[03:22] <tseng> Lathiat++
[03:22] <psusi> how is anything else remotely sane?
[03:22] <psusi> the whole reason for scrolling back is to rexecute commands
[03:22] <tseng> back = up
[03:22] <tseng> down = forward
[03:22] <psusi> usually you want to do several... and you don't want to have to keep hitting up n-1 times
[03:22] <tseng> you cant get commands from the future
[03:22] <Lathiat> psusi: ^R helps :)
[03:23] <tseng> or mapping to PgUp in inputrc...
[03:23] <psusi> Lathiat, to find the first command sure, but when I already know I want the next dozen after that as well?
[03:23] <tseng> which is way less suck than ^R
[03:23] <Lathiat> mapping to pageup?
[03:23] <Lathiat> psusi: type history get hem all and paste?
[03:23] <tseng> # alternate mappings for "page up" and "page down" to search the history
[03:23] <tseng> "\e[5~": history-search-backward
[03:23] <tseng> "\e[6~": history-search-forward
[03:24] <tseng> sudo <pgup> = backward history search like ^R
[03:24] <tseng> with less wanking
[03:25] <minghua> what psusi needs probably is Ctrl-O (instead of enter)
[03:25] <tseng> because dos is how i want my command line to act
[03:25] <LaserJock> does anybody know what a .mo file is" I keep getting "Linda: Unable to find a suitable .mo file!"
[03:25] <tseng> LaserJock: thats bogus afaict
[03:25] <minghua> LaserJock, yes, .mo files containes the translations
[03:25] <psusi> ctrl-0?
[03:25] <minghua> the binary counterpart of .po files
[03:25] <LaserJock> minghua: translations of what?
[03:26] <tseng> LaserJock: strings
[03:26] <tseng> LaserJock: in the program to other languages..
[03:26] <minghua> no, ctrl-Oh, not ctrl-zero
[03:26] <sladen> LaserJock: it's caused by the install on the revu server
[03:26] <psusi> AHA!
[03:26] <psusi> ctrl-O is exactly what I want, thank you!
[03:26] <LaserJock> ok thanks, I just wondered if I was doing something wrong
[03:26] <psusi> thank god that was driving me nuts
[03:26] <sladen> I was even looking whether I could do a workaround to get rid of it :)
[03:27] <tseng> sladen: it does it on my local box, too
[03:27] <Lathiat> psusi, minghua: hey cool
[03:27] <LaserJock> sladen: me too
[03:28] <LaserJock> but why would it be a problem for me to not have a .mo ?
[03:32] <LaserJock> other than being not very internationally friendly
[03:35] <psusi> my sweetest friend... everyone I know, goes away, in the end.... if you could have it all.... my empire of dirt.... I will let you down... I will make you hurt.
[03:40] <LaserJock> anybody know of a way to get a list of bug #s for a particular source package from Malone in an automatic way?
[03:53] <Kyral> oh LJ
[03:53] <Kyral> take a look at this
[03:53] <Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=401
[03:54] <zakame> hi MOTUs :)
[03:55] <Kyral> hey zakame
[03:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: and it's not in Debian?
[03:55] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[03:55] <persia> LaserJock: A URL of the form https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/packagename/+bugs
[03:55] <zakame> heya Kyral and LaserJock :)
[03:55] <Kyral> LaserJock: I don't know, the package search is down right now
[03:56] <LaserJock> persia: yeah, but I am looking for a way to get a list of the bug #s automatically so I can link to all the bugs of a package individually
[03:56] <LaserJock> Kyral: apt-cache or madison-lite
[03:57] <Kyral> LaserJock: that would....damn I almost forgot about chroots :P
[03:58] <LaserJock> Kyral: I don't see anything
[03:58] <Kyral> in Debian?
[03:58] <LaserJock> yea
[03:58] <Kyral> cool
[03:58] <Kyral> I'll get on it soon
[04:00] <LaserJock> Kyral: what about FlowDesigner ?
[04:01] <Kyral> LaserJock: eh...I still gotta fix the LIBSOName problem
[04:03] <LaserJock> Kyral: also make sure to check Debian for ITPs or RFPs before diving in
[04:03] <Kyral> LaserJock: oh
[04:08] <LaserJock> Kyral: I found 3 ITPs for apps I put on MOTUScience, none for flowdesigner though
[04:09] <Kyral> ah
[04:09] <Kyral> anything for GAMGI?
[04:10] <LaserJock> no
[04:10] <janm> hi! What package is gtk.dsextras in now? I have the pygtk dev packages installed (gnome, gtk, and glib) but can't seem to find dsextras. tnx
[04:13] <minghua> python-gnome-extras?  just a wild guess
[04:15] <LaserJock> Kyral: so your going to go for gamgi then?
[04:15] <Kyral> yah
[04:16] <LaserJock> k, I'll add it to MOTUScience
[04:16] <janm> minghua, nope. dsextras used to be in the pygtk devel packages. It was used to build extensions like the trayicon when p.g.e wasn't still around. tnx anyway
[04:17] <LaserJock> is the BSD license ok for Debian/Ubuntu?
[04:17] <womble> LaserJock: It's perfectly fine.
[04:17] <LaserJock> womble: ok, thanks
[04:18] <womble> As long as it's the current BSD, and the ol' 4 clause
[04:27] <zakame> yep
[04:33] <sladen> wonder if it's to do with Ubuntu striping langpacks
[04:33] <sladen> if I build linda then the .mo's are there for English
[04:34] <zakame> hm, the `can't find a suitable .mo file' thang?
[04:36] <sladen> you need  language-pack-en-base  installed
[04:36] <sladen> and it's actually in  /usr/share/locale-langpack/en/LC_MESSAGES/linda.mo
[04:36] <LaserJock> so is it that linda can't find a .mo for itself?
[04:37] <zakame> that's needed for REVU too :)
[04:38] <sladen> yes.
[04:38] <LaserJock> sladen: I have  language-pack-en-base installed but I still get the linda message
[04:39] <sladen> def find(domain):
[04:39] <sladen>     localedir = '/usr/share/locale'
[04:39] <sladen> it's hard-coded...  wonder who we can make it inteligent
[04:39] <zakame> StevenK: ping
[04:40] <zakame> (but I think he's prolly out)
[05:02] <psusi> anyone have a sata hardware fakeraid and feel like testing the dmraid support package for it up on revu? ;)
[05:17] <psusi> did flight3 come out yet?
[05:17] <Burgundavia> psusi, monday
[05:21] <psusi> great... I'll have to test... do a clean install of flight3 and hopefully be able to apt-get install dmraid and have that all work out automagically too
[05:29] <sladen> what the recommended practice regarding updating maintainer: and changed-by: ?
[05:29] <sladen> when reving a Debian package?
[05:30] <zakame> hm I don't understand... can you elaborate? :)
[05:30] <zakame> iirc updating those are in debian/control (for maintainer) and debian/changelog (for changed-by)
[05:34] <psusi> if you are updating a package maintained by someone at debian, should you become the maintainer in the ubuntu version?
[05:34] <psusi> I think that's what he meant... I've been wondering that too
[05:34] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think so
[05:35] <LaserJock> maintainer doesn't mean much in Ubuntu, for Universe anyway
[05:36] <Kyral> ping azeem
[05:36] <zakame> psusi: nope
[05:37] <zakame> psusi: basically, what we do here is what Debian calls as NMU (non-maintainer upload)
[05:37] <zakame> except, of course, for NEW packages in REVU
[05:39] <LaserJock> Kyral: azeem is in Germany I believe, you probably won't get a reply for a while
[05:39] <Kyral> lol okay
[05:42] <zakame> ah, psusi, sladen, are you concerned with what's going on at the n4lp thread at d-devel?
[05:42] <zakame> just got around to reading it
[05:49] <psusi> no idea what you're talking about... what's d-devel?
[05:54] <womble> psusi: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, most likely
[05:55] <Burgundavia> psusi, not to be confused with d-d-l *grint*
[05:56] <psusi> ahh... no, I'm not on the debian lists
[05:56] <psusi> what's n4lp?
[05:57] <zakame> heya \sh
[05:57] <\sh> hmm...
[05:57] <\sh> I just had a look on lucas' unimultiverse list
[05:58] <\sh> and I wonder why I don't find python-profiler on a dapper system
[05:58] <zakame> psusi: need for launchpad, (perhaps) highest-grossing thread for january
[05:58] <\sh> because I wrote it wrong..it's too early in the morning
[05:58] <psusi> I don't like it so far
[05:59] <zakame> er who does?
[06:01] <psusi> lol
[06:04] <\sh> zakame: to be honest, the thread is now totally crap
[06:05] <zakame> \sh: heh, it was well before you got into it ;)
[06:05] <\sh> zakame: ;) no it wasn't
[06:06] <\sh> actually, it was a "ready to die" thread, when the initiator wrote "launchpad"
[06:06] <zakame> \sh: well yeah, the OP had a point, but it quickly... yeah, die
[06:07] <zakame> he should have said launchpad/alioth integration then ;P
[06:13] <\sh> zakame: he should have said nothing, at least not on d-d
[06:21] <zakame> hehe, indeed
[06:22] <\sh> zakame: and you shouldn't have press "r" for reply :) they will hunt you down :)
[06:26] <minghua> any universe-bugs@l.u.c admins here?  I am starting to get "non-subscriber's mail waiting for moderation" mails recently
[06:27] <sladen> for those wondering.  It's probably:  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00349.html
[06:28] <\sh> minghua: that belongs to launchpad and the main switch
[06:28] <sladen> minghua: it's because launchpad is spamming it
[06:29] <psusi> yea... email sent to the bugs list by malone is bouncing
[06:29] <zakame> \sh: eh?
[06:29] <minghua> \sh, sladen: I see.  Is there anyway I can get my address whitelisted?
[06:29] <\sh> minghua: it's not your address :)
[06:29] <minghua> Hmm...
[06:29] <\sh> or actually it's your address :)
[06:30] <\sh> somehow...ask on #launchpad for me and lpbugs it's working :)
[06:30] <\sh> minghua: think more ubuntu-bugs@ problem
[06:31] <zakame> bbl :)
[06:32] <minghua> I think it is my address (it's the about the comment for the qt-immodule bugs yesterday), I'll ask on #launchpad
[06:32] <psusi> I changed a bug in malone earlier and got a bounced email from ubuntu-bugs that was sent by malone
[06:33] <psusi> says I'm not a subscriber
[06:34] <\sh> psusi: did you subscribe to this mailing list?
[06:34] <psusi> of course not
[06:35] <minghua> psusi: with the subject "Your message to ubuntu-bugs awaits moderator approval"
[06:35] <minghua> ?
[06:35] <psusi> minghua, yes
[06:35] <minghua> yeah, then we are talking about the same problem
[06:36] <\sh> subscribe to the mailing list and see if this changes :)
[06:38] <minghua> okay, this seems to be two problems:
[06:38] <minghua> 1. my mail didn't go to universe-bugs@ although the bug is assigned to MOTU
[06:38] <minghua> 2. malone send bugs to ubuntu-bugs@ but the list doesn't want it
[06:39] <psusi> shouldn't have to subscribe... malone should be allowed to post to the list... and since I did not originate the message, it certainly should not bounce back to me
[06:39] <minghua> \sh: that's not an option, I don't want that address spammed by bug mails
[06:39] <minghua> I am perhaps going to change my main address on launchpad
[06:40] <\sh> minghua: the latter is a better plan :)
[06:42] <psusi> where do you report bugs in malone itself?
[06:45] <Yagisan> psusi: what's up ?
[06:46] <psusi> Yagisan, you ever build the defragger? ;)
[06:47] <\sh> psusi: launchpad malone product malone i think
[06:47] <psusi> ahh... heh
[06:48] <psusi> so what's a guy got to do to get upload rights for universe? ;)
[06:49] <Yagisan> psusi: I saw that your changes to e2fsprogs had issues with ia64 ?? was waiting for an update on it
[06:49] <Yagisan> psusi: cc meeting + sexual favours :-P
[06:49] <psusi> Yagisan, Yea... still not heard any updates from Mithrandir about upstream fixing it
[06:50] <\sh> psusi: become a member
[06:50] <psusi> also... I'm not sure why, but defrag now works on ext3 ;)
[06:50] <psusi> \sh, what's that entail?
[06:50] <\sh> psusi: for that you have to document your work for ubuntu (in general) on your personal wiki page on w.u.c
[06:50] <psusi> Yagisan, I was going to reverse the patch that made it refuse to work on ext3... but I never did, and as far as I can tell, it still should refuse to operate on ext3... but it doesn't... works fine on it too...
[06:51] <\sh> psusi: after some contributions which are documented you propose yourself as ubuntu member and go straight to the CommunityCouncil...there will be a decision if you become a member or not.
[06:52] <\sh> psusi: after that, you will do more work for MOTU, and propose yourself as ubuntu-dev ... after a couple of weeks and finding motus who will speak up for you, you go to the TechnicalBoard...the TB decides if your contributions to MOTU and ubuntu are good and worthy, and they will give you your upload rights to universe
[06:52] <psusi> \sh, I see.... so what should I do before then?  so far I've fixed/improved a few packages and uploaded to revu
[06:52] <Yagisan> psusi: well the ext3 journal is just a regular file when mounted as ext2
[06:53] <psusi> Yagisan, actually I believe it doesn't show up... it's a reserved inode number... defrag treats it as bad clusters
[06:53] <\sh> psusi: first you go the ubuntu member way..and for that, document everything you did for ubuntu (documentation, packages, fixes , bug triage etc.) on your wiki page :)
[06:54] <Yagisan> \sh: so, you think I'd get member status by now then (assume I write down what I do) ?
[06:54] <psusi> ok... so I should start a wiki page...
[06:55] <psusi> how about specs?  I've written a spec or two... how do I get them looked at?
[06:55] <\sh> Yagisan: well..what I think is irrelevant, I can give my statement that I'm happy with you and that your contribution is worth it, to welcome you as member, but the final decision is made by the Community Council
[06:55] <\sh> psusi: are they in launchpad?
[06:56] <psusi> \sh, yes...
[06:56] <psusi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PacketCD is registered in launchpad
[06:56] <psusi> I need to take https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FakeRaidHowto and convert it into a spec too
[06:56] <Yagisan> \sh: thanks, you answered my question perfectly.
[06:58] <\sh> Yagisan: the decision is finally made by several points: 1. the CC will see, that your contributions are a continous afford...2. are they worth for Ubuntu 3. are other members, who know you, worked with you, happy with you :)
[06:58] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 3: "doc-debian: copyright status of some documents unclear" Product: Ubuntu, Component: doc-debian, Severity: normal, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3
[06:59] <\sh> Ubugtu: your parser is broken :)
[07:01] <\sh> Yagisan: if everything is positiv to be answered, the CC will say "welcome on board" or if not, they decide, work more on your contributions, eventually with on of the other people, or, and this can happen every time for every decision: Sabdfl stands up and vetos all decisions by CC or TB and what he decides after his veto, that'll be it :)
[07:02] <psusi> \sh, so what else can I do besides registering it on malone to get my spec noticed?
[07:02] <\sh> Yagisan: and the most important part is: You signed the CoC. Without that, you can forget all steps :)
[07:03] <\sh> psusi: what about request feedback?
[07:05] <psusi> request feedback?
[07:06] <minghua> \sh: I have more qt-immodule fun/pain for you ;-)  bug #28590
[07:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28590: "x11-free (Ubuntu) - qtconfig can't start in GNOME with XMODIFIERS="@im=SCIM" and scim running" Fix req. for: qt-x11-free (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/28590
[07:07] <\sh> minghua: can you strace qtconfig on gnome?
[07:08] <\sh> psusi: when you go to the lp page of spec there is a link request feedback...
[07:08] <minghua> \sh: sure
[07:08] <\sh> psusi: i honestly don't know what this link is doing, but it's worth a try
[07:08] <psusi> rofl
[07:10] <\sh> psusi: you asked :)
[07:10] <minghua> \sh: strace posted
[07:11] <Yagisan> \sh: thanks. I actually have signed the CoC, so that's the first step done.
[07:12] <\sh> write(2, "Failed to create XIM input conte"..., 36Failed to create XIM input context!
[07:12] <\sh> ) = 36
[07:12] <\sh> hmm..could it be, that this is byting with the gnome xim support?
[07:14] <minghua> \sh: I don't really know
[07:14] <minghua> that's why I proposed to try dropping said patch
[07:14] <minghua> for comparison, I mean
[07:14] <\sh> well..what happens if you set the qtconfig settings in kde....and then change to gnome and start any qt / kde application?
[07:15] <minghua> \sh: which setting?
[07:15] <minghua> \sh: with the same environment most KDE apps plainly crash
[07:15] <minghua> if that's what you want to know
[07:15] <\sh> minghua: yes :)
[07:15] <psusi> silly wiki... it doesn't know Aspiring is a word
[07:16] <psusi> and it isn't linkifying "PacketCD" for some reason... how do you force a reference to another wiki page?
[07:24] <psusi> ahh, there we go.. changed its status to pending review
[07:25] <\sh> minghua: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/immodule-qt/2004-November/000587.html
[07:25] <\sh> minghua: are you sure, scim is running?
[07:25] <\sh> minghua: and please try to use skim instead of scim :)
[07:26] <minghua> \sh: yes, I can input Chinese in the same terminal
[07:26] <minghua> \sh: Err... I'm the scim maintainer, you know
[07:27] <\sh> okok..I only want to be sure :)
[07:27] <minghua> I'll test skim later
[07:28] <minghua> although 1. I have no experience on skim; 2. I doubt skim works in gnome
[07:28] <\sh> and please test uim as well :)
[07:29] <minghua> I can't be the "one-man-for-all-input-methods" guy, can I? :-)
[07:30] <minghua> Gah, my qt-x11-free build fails
[07:47] <minghua> \sh: okay, fair enough
[07:47] <\sh> minghua: nobody should do those nasty things :)
[07:47] <minghua> \sh: I'll prepare a debdiff to disable the immodule patch then, I think
[07:47] <\sh> minghua: wrong way...
[07:47] <\sh> minghua: right way is using coditionals :)
[07:47] <\sh> conditionals even
[07:47] <minghua> yeah, if I know how to speak make...
[07:47] <\sh> minghua: which we can try to achieve and we can do this as well in 00list :)
[07:47] <minghua> \sh: my fail is because of debian/rules
[07:47] <minghua> \sh: yeah, doing so
[07:58] <minghua> \sh: do we plan to merge the recent qt-x11-free changes in Debian packages?
[07:59] <\sh> I have to see what they are...
[07:59] <\sh> will have a look later
[07:59] <minghua> I've just looked, some things seem to be nice to have
[07:59] <minghua> for example:
[08:00] <minghua> * Move all .desktop files from /usr/share/applnk to /usr/share/applications, and ensure that they have Categories set. This cleanup also fixes the Qt3 Assistant menu entry, which should now appear next to other Qt3 tools in the menu. (Closes: #335465)
[08:00] <minghua> but I understand this is low priority
[08:01] <\sh> minghua: I'll check later...right now I'm trying to fix something else...
[08:01] <minghua> \sh: sure
[09:16] <pef> hello
[09:20] <sivang> hey pef
[09:20] <sivang> pef: 'sup?
[09:22] <pef> sivang: tracking bugs and trying to get better support for my brand new T43 laptop :)
[09:22] <pef> sivang: and you ?
[09:22] <sivang> pef: ohh, I had one like that that I returned for a dead pixel chronic problem, but everything was supported there out of the box :)
[09:22] <sivang> it's sweet having Ubuntu on this baby
[09:23] <sivang> pef: I'm trying to get soem more work done on my spec, pitying I do not have time to work on some merges..
[09:23] <pef> sivang: everything working ? I have problem with suspend to disk and bluetooth/wifi toggle button
[09:25] <sivang> pef: eh, almost then - I didn't use the bluetooth, but wifi worked hassle free
[09:25] <sivang> pef: and I played with the switch button, didn't seem to have any troubles.
[09:26] <sivang> (it did have 6 dead pixels though, so I returned it)
[09:26] <pef> sivang: under Dapper ?
[09:26] <pef> arg, bad luck
[09:27] <sivang> pef: breezy
[09:28] <pef> sivang: yeah, nearly all is working on Breezy, but on Dapper several things are broken
[09:32] <pef> sivang: it looks like some wireless drivers drop /sys/class/net/xx/wireless entry
[09:32] <pef> in dapper kernel
[10:17] <josesanch> hello
[10:17] <josesanch> I uploaded a package to revu, but don't appears in http://revu.tauware.de/
[10:34] <siretart> morning
[10:34] <siretart> josesanch: because your key wasn't it the revu keyring
[10:34] <siretart> josesanch: I added your key and reprocessed your upload
[10:34] <josesanch> ahh..
[10:34] <josesanch> ok.. thanks
[10:37] <siretart> \sh_away: boson-base got NMU'ed yesterday, based on the ubuntu package
[10:51] <Gloubiboulga> morning
[11:17] <siretart> hi Fuddl
[11:54] <vurdak> good morning to all
[12:08] <pef> vurdak: good morning to you ;)
[12:08] <vurdak> :)
[02:05] <Gloubiboulga> could a MOTU remove libflu2.14 from REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1363)
[02:06] <Gloubiboulga> This lib is old and not maintained, it shouldn't be accepted in Universe
[02:55] <siretart> Gloubiboulga: done
[02:55] <Gloubiboulga> siretart, thanks
[03:06] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[03:06] <Gloubiboulga> hi Kyral
[03:15] <Kyral> hmm
[03:34] <Yagisan> G'day Kyral
[03:40] <siretart> slomo_: around?
[03:55] <slomo_> siretart: yes, partially
[03:56] <siretart> slomo_: did you read siggis answer? cool news, I'd say :)
[03:57] <slomo_> siretart: yes... although i never used sourceforge before ;) what was it all that we wanted to change with xine-lib? first priority is faad/ffmpeg removal, yes? let's ask him about that ;)
[03:58] <ogra> slomo_, any plans for gstreamer0.10-mad in the near future ?
[03:58] <siretart> slomo_: that was my next question/suggestion: you are going to answer him on the xine-lib split, yes?
[03:59] <slomo_> ogra: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly has the mad plugin
[03:59] <ogra> ah, because its not searchable anymore by apt-cache ...
[03:59] <slomo_> siretart: yes... that's what i planned to do next :)
[03:59] <slomo_> hm i guess we should add all included plugins in the description...
[04:00] <\sh> moins#
[04:00] <slomo_> hi \sh :)
[04:01] <\sh> moins slomo
[04:02] <\sh> oh well...d-d is better then the local newspaper reporting about the war in whereever
[04:03] <\sh> I should unsubscribe
[04:03] <siretart> huhu \sh
[04:04] <siretart> \sh: I like gmail for mailing lists like d-d ;)
[04:06] <\sh> oh well...12h disconnect
[04:06] <\sh> siretart: tell me, do we have x11forwarding enabled on tiber?
[04:07] <\sh> ogra: the ssh -X problem occured as well on tiber...it refuses to set the $DISPLAY env
[04:07] <ogra> strange, i have no problems anywhere
[04:08] <\sh> ogra: hmmm
[04:08] <siretart> \sh: >> grep X11 /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[04:08] <siretart> X11Forwarding yes
[04:09] <\sh> siretart: ok..you are running dapper with latest updates? if so, please ssh -X to tiber and check if the $DISPLAY is set :)
[04:09] <\sh> siretart: because I have problems since yesterday or so.
[04:10] <slomo_> hm, isn't set for me
[04:10] <\sh> hmmmm..
[04:11] <\sh> i can't have a $DISPLAY set when I ssh -X from my laptop to the amd64 build box..neither it's set on tiber when I ssh -X there
[04:11] <ogra> siretart, thats not enough ...
[04:11] <\sh> but form dapper to hoary it works :)
[04:12] <\sh> I just ssh -X to my hoary box...no problem
[04:12] <ogra> siretart, grep AddressFamily /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[04:12] <\sh> and it worked before
[04:12] <siretart> \sh: I just installed the package 'xauth' on tiber, should work now
[04:12] <ogra> AddressFamily inet
[04:13] <siretart> \sh: what do you want to do with X11 forwarding on tiber?
[04:13] <slomo_> siretart: jep, works :)
[04:13] <ogra> sshd has a bug that doesnt release the DISPLAY variable if ipv6 is enabled ...
[04:13] <\sh> siretart: ok...works now...
[04:13] <\sh> ogra: I enabled AddressFamily inet
[04:13] <ogra> \sh, on tiber ???
[04:13] <\sh> ogra: on the dapper amd64 box
[04:13] <siretart> ogra: I never encountered that bug, and use ipv6 on a regular basis. do you have a bugno handy?
[04:14] <\sh> ogra: no..tiber works now
[04:14] <ogra> siretart, not here, wait, i'll dig for it ... its a longstanding bug since breezy development began
[04:14] <\sh> ogra: http://www.bitreactor.to/download.php?id=58716
[04:14] <\sh> umhf
[04:14] <\sh> hehe.
[04:14] <\sh> *shame*
[04:15] <\sh> AddressFamily inet
[04:15] <ogra> \sh, whats that ?
[04:15] <\sh> ogra: nothing...wrong pastbuffer
[04:15] <ogra> (i wont start a download now)
[04:15] <ogra> ah
[04:15] <Yagisan> \sh: I find d-d interesting. The more I read it, the less comfortable I feel running debian on commercial systems. I'm sure I will be asked questions tomorrow from some customers why they received  email regarding lesbians on the list I said would advise them of important changes.
[04:16] <siretart> \sh: what do you want to do with x11 on tiber?
[04:17] <\sh> siretart: nothing...I have problems on my amd64 server
[04:17] <\sh> siretart: ssh -X doesn't work anymore
[04:17] <\sh> well it worked the day before yesterday still..
[04:17] <ogra> siretart, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/25528
[04:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25528: "server (Ubuntu) - X11 forwarding via ssh not releasing ports in timely manner with IPv4 and IPv6 enabled" Fix req. for: openssh openssh-server (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Colin Watson, Status: Needs Info
[04:17] <ogra> siretart, sorry, wasnt DISPLAY...
[04:18] <ogra> but doesnt work either without the option ...
[04:19] <\sh> looks like I have to reboot the machine somehow
[04:19] <\sh> this is not normal
[04:19] <siretart> ogra: interesting. thanks for pointer
[04:20] <ogra> if you have an idea, feel free to follow up on the bug...
[04:20] <ogra> it would be odd if we had to release a ipv4 limited sshd in dapper
[04:21] <Yagisan> ogra: new upstream doesn't fix it ?
[04:21] <ogra> not to my knowledge
[04:23] <\sh> siretart: btw...the debian/ dir inside a package, is it under a separate license then the upstream source, or could be under a separate license?
[04:25] <siretart> \sh: the debian/ is under the same license as the software itself, unless otherwise stated in debian/copyright
[04:25] <\sh> siretart: ok..and where can I find the copyright holder of the debian/ dir?
[04:25] <siretart> \sh: but I'd strongly recommend to stay with the original licence
[04:25] <siretart> \sh: in debian/copyright
[04:25] <siretart> if not I'd consider it as bug
[04:27] <\sh> ok...so there is normally no rational to have the Maintainer field filled in with the debian maintainer
[04:28] <siretart> \sh: I don't think so.
[04:29] <Yagisan> \sh: careful - don't play into the trolls hands on d-d by changing the maintainer
[04:29] <siretart> \sh: but if you want to change the maintainer field, it should not be in the source package, but in the appearance of the corresponding tools. this should be rather fixed in our infrastructure than in the source package
[04:29] <\sh> k..so it could be possible during syncs to change the maintainer field of the source package on the fly
[04:30] <Yagisan> \sh: If they can add a sed script, it should be
[04:30] <\sh> minghua: can you come to kubuntu-devel?
[04:30] <siretart> \sh: I think it would be better to adapt the output of 'apt-cache' and co
[04:31] <siretart> \sh: e.g. I would not want my packages to be mangled!
[04:33] <\sh> siretart: yes I know, and I don't want to change the Maintainer field in the source...I'm only searching for a rational not to do it :)
[04:34] <\sh> siretart: neither in source nor in any other file :)
[04:34] <siretart> \sh: the rationale up to now was because some DDs could be pissed off because of it
[04:35] <siretart> \sh: mdz tried to start a discussion about it but nobody cared.
[04:35] <\sh> siretart: well..the majority don't rant and flame about it..it's only a small ammount of people
[04:37] <Yagisan> siretart: after watching the stunts pulled in d-d, and the fact that very few dd's have vocally disagreed (thereby implicitly agreeing), personally I think they can get stuffed, but that's just my opinion as a user
[04:38] <Yagisan> siretart: actually the fact that d-d-a can be so easily abused makes me wonder about if the rest of their infrastructure can be abused
[04:38] <ogra> \sh, changing the Maintainer field is pointless because we dont use it anywhere in ubuntu ...
[04:38] <ogra> very simple argument ...
[04:39] <\sh> ogra: we all know that :)
[04:40] <ogra> you were looking for arguments
[04:40] <Yagisan> ogra: very true, but it doesn't seem to be understood, does it.
[04:41] <ogra> explain them the "who touched it last is responsible" policy we have ...
[04:41] <ogra> then they'll understand why we dont need it
[04:41] <\sh> ogra: this argument is technical, so it can't solve the social aspect of "I'm the maintainer, and if someone is changing my package, I don't want to be responsible anymore for this"
[04:42] <ogra> he isnt ...
[04:42] <ogra> ubuntu bugs get filed in the ubuntu bugtracker that should prevent him being esponsible
[04:42] <\sh> ogra: in their eyes, he is still responsible, because his name and email address is written in the maintainer field
[04:42] <Yagisan> ogra: they don't (want to) understand. people seem to be trying that already. actually, I wonder if the ones complaining would pass the current n-m process
[04:43] <siretart> ogra: we still don't have an easy means to answer the question 'who touched the package Y last?'
[04:43] <siretart> ogra: grepping through 'dapper-changes@lists..' is NOT easy
[04:43] <ogra> changelogs.ubuntu.com
[04:43] <\sh> ogra: if the bug reporter is using reportbugs patched by ubuntu :)
[04:43] <minghua> well, there are always clueless users that will pester them about the ubuntu packages, so they have a point there
[04:43] <phanatic> hi people
[04:44] <\sh> minghua: no...if the user are not able to use reportbugs or read manuals, how are they able to apt-cache showsrc package?
[04:44] <\sh> the whole discussion makes no sense, only technical people who are familiar with debian are looking on the maintainer field. others don't.
[04:45] <minghua> \sh: I have no idea.  I receive emails begin with "I see you are listed as the maintainer of this ubuntu package, so..." myself
[04:45] <Yagisan> minghua: most debian-derived distros use their debs unchanged - it's no different - except canonical didn't hire the people complaining it seems. maybe that's the real problem ...
[04:45] <\sh> minghua: which is sometimes not bad...
[04:46] <minghua> I am not really annoyed by this, I just tell them I am not responsable, but I can see why someone don't want to see such mails
[04:46] <minghua> \sh: well, if you remember the outcry about scim not working in breezy in ubuntu-devel, you can imagine such mails are not really friendly
[04:47] <Yagisan> minghua: I understand, it's an annoyance, but is it any worse if eg it is a mepis, nextena?? kantonix user etc ?
[04:47] <\sh> minghua: well...my solution is "delete"...if someone is not polite and rational, I can refuse to read his mail :)
[04:48] <minghua> granted it's a small portion of users, but I rarely receive encouraging mails when the package works, either
[04:48] <Yagisan> \sh: I thought everyone has asuffield in their kill file ;)
[04:49] <minghua> Yagisan: I don't know how they customize their packages, but no, I've never received mails from their users
[04:49] <Yagisan> minghua: the point is they don't. I got emails from them asking about my packages
[04:50] <ogra> probably their users dont debug stuff :)
[04:50] <minghua> maybe they don't have CJK users then, which is quite possible :-)
[04:50] <spike> hi there
[04:50] <\sh> ogra: what you meant to say is: they don't have a large userbase, is it? ;)
[04:50] <minghua> I am just trying to say it's a valid complain
[04:51] <minghua> although I would say it's not a big deal at all
[04:51] <spike> can anybody enlighten me on connections between launchpad and wiki.u.c ?
[04:51] <\sh> minghua: comparable with all the mails you get via Dbts...how many mails from ubuntu users are you receiving?
[04:51] <Yagisan> minghua: true. but to be honest, even when people bitch about my work - at least I know they are using it
[04:51] <spike> I was registering on the wiki to join the ubuntu-server project, and noticed it says "use ur launchpad account"
[04:51] <ogra> we should probably move Maintainer to Originator and just prefill Maintainer with "ubuntu"
[04:52] <spike> does it mean they're shared or that u're just suggested to use the same name for simplicity?
[04:52] <\sh> spike: create an account on launchpad, and use this account for the wiki...the authentication methods are connected
[04:52] <spike> ah, cool
[04:52] <spike> tnx
[04:53] <Yagisan> ogra: just do what other (but not all) distros do. Dump the debian credits and list ubuntu only.
[04:53] <minghua> Yagisan: I have a mixed feeling on this, in my case the problem is real, and nonexistent in debian, which makes it a little more annoying
[04:54] <\sh> minghua: but we're trying to do something...how long you have to wait for a patch in qt in debian?
[04:54] <\sh> (ok, that was ironic)
[04:54] <Yagisan> minghua: honestly - I'd rather leave the maintainer field alone - but if upstream has such a big issue, I understand why other distros give them the finger wrt credits
[04:55] <minghua> \sh:I definitely consider the ubuntu mode better, and I don't mind my name listed as maintainer in ubuntu packages
[04:56] <minghua> \sh:  but I can't require everybody see it the same way as I do
[04:56] <Yagisan> \sh: I gave up on reporting bugs to debian. nearly a year and still not done
[04:56] <\sh> Yagisan: which is not the spirit of Ubuntu. Most of the work is done by debian, and that is more then ok, to credit them in any way we have...but there are things, we can't solve without having a white witch
[04:56] <minghua> \sh:  which is why I say their complaint is valid
[04:57] <minghua> I am not saying we should fix this problem right now
[04:57] <minghua> All I want to say is we can't claim "all those Debian maintainers are just whiners and we don't need to listen to them"
[04:58] <minghua> that's not the correct attitude IMHO
[04:58] <\sh> well..we can solve it right here, right now...take the debian source package, repackage them into rpm and using apt4rpm...
[04:59] <\sh> because the RPM based distros, who were all "forking" or "derivating" from RedHat don't have those problems. to be honest
[04:59] <Yagisan> \sh: minghua: I just want them to make up their mind - do they want credit or not - and to treat all derivatives the same. they don't do that. they don't even treat internal custom distros the same.
[05:00] <\sh> siretart: btw..I adjusted lpbugs.py to use the new "In Progress" and "Fix Released" status codes.
[05:01] <minghua> Yagisan: that's the problem with Debian: anything not in socila contract, different DDs can have different opinions :-)
[05:01] <minghua> Yagisan: there is simply no "they" that can make their mind ;-)
[05:01] <stratus> ogra, about your idea to move Maintainer to Originator, why not just show the Uploaders field?
[05:02] <\sh> stratus: because then someone can complain about "Uploaders means normally co-maintainers...and ubuntu devs are not co-maintainers"
[05:03] <ogra> we should add a Ubuntu-Maintainer field ...
[05:03] <minghua> besides I don't think the ubuntu uploader is listed in Uploaders field?
[05:03] <spike> is there a time delay before u can use ur account on the wiki once registered to launchpad?
[05:03] <ogra> thats distinct enough from debian
[05:03] <minghua> I like ogra's idea better
[05:03] <spike> I cant login on the wiki, it says wrong password, but I'm pretty sure I'm typing it right.. can login to launchpad
[05:03] <Yagisan> ogra: what's the point - it will usually say motu anyway.
[05:04] <ogra> Yagisan, for universe, yes
[05:04] <\sh> Yagisan: not for main...only for universe
[05:04] <ogra> Yagisan, it could even just carry the link to malone
[05:05] <ogra> (then we shold call it Ubuntu Bugs indeed, not Maintainer)
[05:05] <siretart> \sh: great. I think i can remove my motutools branch, then, no?
[05:05] <\sh> siretart: I just merged from you again...and fixed it after...merge from me again :)
[05:06] <Yagisan> ogra: I'm in favour of calling it "The field formally known as Maintainer:"
[05:06] <ogra> ++
[05:06] <ogra> :)
[05:06] <minghua> that's a long field name :-)
[05:06] <ogra> but i wouldnt touch the existing Maintainer field... leave that intact and add up stuff
[05:06] <spike> ok, done, sorry for the fuss
[05:08] <stratus> \sh, i see.
[05:08] <stratus> maintainer isn't a good field name, IMHO.
[05:09] <\sh> siretart: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5973 possible to replace openssl against gnutls?
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5973: "GnuCash doesn't support HBCI" Fix req. for: gnucash (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Unconfirmed
[05:10] <spike> is there any CLI interface to the forum?
[05:10] <spike> like xml-rpc based
[05:10] <\sh> spike: wrong channel for this to ask :)
[05:10] <spike> or email based... using the browser is a pain :/
[05:10] <spike> sorry
[05:10] <\sh> spike: I don't think many people here using the forums :)
[05:11] <\sh> spike: email based is named "ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com" :)
[05:11] <spike> eheh
[05:12] <siretart> \sh: didn't check, but I assume it would need porting to gnutls, depending on what parts of openssl it needs
[05:14] <\sh> k
[05:14] <ogra> slomo_, any news on mono on ppc ?
[05:14] <ogra> we only have 4 days left
[05:14] <\sh> ok...going back to my studies....bbl
[05:17] <slomo_> ogra: nope... sadly not :/ but why do we only have 4 days left? for UVF, yes... but we will stay at 1.1.13 anyway as novell plans to backport all bugfixes to 1.1.13 for their distribution... 1.1.13.1 is already the first bugfix release, 1.1.13.2 will come in about a week and i guess mdz will accept these bugfix releases as exceptions from UVF for some time, at least when the fix for ppc is finally there...
[05:18] <ogra> yes, i didnt know they backport the fixes, great news then :)
[05:19] <slomo_> compile it yourself ;) works fine for me
[05:20] <ogra> the whole of mono ...
[05:20] <ogra> send me some hours i can attach to my day to do that please :)
[05:21] <slomo_> hm i could upload my packages tomorrow or the day after... i was only too lazy for that in the past ;)
[05:23] <Gloubiboulga> libmotif3 installs .so files in usr/X11R6/lib/
[05:23] <Gloubiboulga> is this ok to do so ? lintian doesn't agree with it  :)
[05:23] <ogra> heh, no hurry ... as long as we have mono in the release
[05:24] <slomo_> ogra: you could send infinity your ibook to use it as a mono buildd until it is fixed ;P
[05:24] <ogra> i can give him ssh access to it ;)
[05:25] <ogra> but he would have to live in the deep depths of the lowest nice value with his buildd, so i can still do my work
[05:27] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, nothing should install anything to /usr/X11R6 anymore
[05:30] <Yagisan> heh - someone has thrown out a pc. I'm off to see if it's still usable
[05:36] <LaserJock> azeem: ping?
[05:41] <Yagisan> cool - a fully working pentium. Just needs a net card and I have a new ltsp client
[05:42] <ogra> hehe
[05:43] <Yagisan> nice
[05:44] <ogra> the wyse box has a spare pcmcia slot ;)
[05:44] <Yagisan> ogra: so, when do all the edubuntu terminals come with distcc preinstalled
[05:44] <Yagisan> ?
[05:44] <Yagisan> and a sample pbuilder config would be nice :)
[05:44] <ogra> if i find a cheap pcmcia tv card for it, i'll create a ltsp-mythtv-netboot package, the most silent pc is a thin client ;)
[05:46] <ogra> kill me if i ever think about it even ... the 300MHz gedoe CPUs all these things have will rather slow the build down than speed it up :)
[05:46] <Yagisan> ogra: well, if they are building package foo, and you are building package bar - you just got foo for free
[05:47] <Gloubiboulga> ogra, I'm looking at bug #28549
[05:48] <Gloubiboulga> libmotif3 is the problem
[05:48] <ogra> Yagisan, and foo takes 3h instead of 10 min for bar on my amd64 ...
[05:49] <Yagisan> ogra: but as you had 2.6G of packages you called pbuilder on, (think my repo), by the time bar and co are finished, foo is ready
[05:50] <Yagisan> ogra: enjoy the academic challenge
[05:50] <Yagisan> ogra: I get 1 fps from each client when I'm ripping dvds
[05:50] <ogra> heh
[05:50] <Yagisan> ogra: 20 more clients and it is realtime
[05:51] <ogra> feel free to make a ltsp-thin-client distcc package for universe that sets it up for you ;)
[05:52] <Yagisan> ogra: when I have time. I can't finish my wine for amd64 due to lack of time at the moment
[05:53] <ogra> i didnt say for dapper ;)
[06:36] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[06:36] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[06:57] <dholbach> siretart: does piuparts always run debootsrap before?
[07:07] <siretart> dholbach: you can use piuparts with option --pbuilder
[07:07] <siretart> dholbach: then it uses your pbuilder base.tgz instead of creating a new chroot over and over
[07:07] <minghua> dholbach: not if you specify --basetgz
[07:07] <dholbach> ROCKing
[07:08] <dholbach> i'll use it in the apt-get.org script then
[07:08] <siretart> yes
[07:08] <minghua> I am having the same problem with linda as Kyral does
[07:09] <minghua> "Linda: Unable to find a suitable .mo file!"
[07:09] <dholbach> yeah, I got those warnings too
[07:09] <minghua> apparently linda in dapper is not happy and doesn't want to work
[07:09] <minghua> dholbach: I don't think that's a warning, I think linda just doesn't work
[07:09] <minghua> let me make sure...
[07:10] <dholbach> minghua: StevenK should know :)
[07:11] <minghua> yeah, maybe I should just ask him instead of trying to figure it out myself :-)
[07:13] <LaserJock> somebody was working on the linda issue last night
[07:13] <LaserJock> it can't find its .mo file or something, I think
[07:17] <siretart> this has been for a while
[07:17] <siretart> StevenK: do you know about this?
[07:40] <siretart> psusi: I'm just looking at your dmraid package
[07:40] <siretart> psusi: -       dh_installinit -p dmraid -- start 03 S . start 51 0 6 .
[07:40] <siretart> I assume you removed that because you integrated it in initramfs, no
[07:40] <siretart> ?
[07:42] <psusi> siretart, correct
[07:42] <siretart> psusi: why do you choose the utnubu team to be the maintainer of the package?
[07:43] <psusi> siretart, I didn't... that's what it was set to already
[07:43] <siretart> psusi: I see no point in having it set to utnubu. if you don't want to maintain it, then rather point it to our mailinglist
[07:44] <ogra> siretart, its one of the early adopted utnubu packages
[07:44] <psusi> I think what happened is that fabione originally packaged it, then the utnubu team merged it over to debian, and it got synced back with them as the maintainer
[07:44] <siretart> ogra: thats cool, but still pointless
[07:44] <psusi> if you think it is appropriate, I suppose I can be the maintainer
[07:44] <ogra> siretart, but its been set in debian
[07:45] <siretart> indeed: here it is: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/utnubu/packages/dmraid/trunk/?rev=0&sc=0
[07:46] <ogra> Source: dmraid
[07:46] <ogra> Version: 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9-0ubuntu1
[07:46] <ogra> Binary: dmraid
[07:46] <ogra> Maintainer: Fabio M. Di Nitto <fabbione@ubuntu.com>
[07:46] <siretart> I see
[07:46] <ogra> thats the initial package
[07:47] <ogra> utnubu took it during breezy ...
[07:47] <siretart> psusi: do you have an debian/sid system to test the package there?
[07:47] <psusi> nope
[07:47] <siretart> ah, I see.
[07:47] <psusi> but I suppose I could install it if I needed to
[07:48] <siretart> I'm just thinking about the best way to maintain it
[07:48] <ogra> if its using initramfs, its likely that it needs to differ
[07:48] <siretart> ogra: debian has initramfs, too
[07:48] <ogra> the two initramfs implementations are different
[07:48] <siretart> oh. interesting
[07:49] <siretart> psusi: in any case: this is not correct: +dmraid (0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9-3) unstable; urgency=low
[07:49] <ogra> afaik ...
[07:49] <siretart> psusi: with this version number and upload target, you are targeting another upload in debian/unstable
[07:50] <psusi> they are?  hrm...
[07:50] <siretart> psusi: do you want to work on the package so that it is expected to work in debian or do you want to maintain it in ubuntu only?
[07:50] <psusi> I want it to work in ubuntu... if it also works on debian, great
[07:50] <siretart> ok
[07:50] <psusi> and yea, I was wondering why it has the 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9 version
[07:51] <psusi> instead of just being 1.0.0.rc9
[07:51] <siretart> in that case, I'd suggest you upload another version to revu, set your name in the maintainer field (or the motu mailinglist, if you don't want the resposibility), and fix the version number and upload target
[07:51] <siretart> psusi: thats on purpose
[07:51] <siretart> psusi: because 1.0.0 < 1.0.0.rc9
[07:52] <psusi> ahhhh
[07:52] <ogra> siretart, why do you take it away from utnubu again ? #
[07:52] <psusi> and what exactly do you mean by fix the version number?
[07:52] <psusi> I just did a dch -i to bumb the minior version number
[07:52] <psusi> bump even
[07:52] <ogra> psusi, if you add ubuntu changes, you have to add ubuntuX
[07:52] <psusi> ahhh
[07:52] <ogra> and set it to dapper, not unstable
[07:53] <siretart> ogra: the maintainer field has to be the correct contact address for the package
[07:53] <psusi> ahh.... ok
[07:53] <ogra> siretart, which was by agreement the utnubu people for this package ...
[07:53] <siretart> ogra: I haven't heard anyone from the utnubu team activly caring for them. they would need another 'upstream', and that would be ubuntu
[07:53] <ogra> i fear they are upset if you take it away from them
[07:54] <siretart> ogra: I would agree if the maintainer field would sound something like 'Debian utnubu collaborative maintenance team'
[07:54] <psusi> well if the changes are going to be ubuntu specific because debian uses a different initramfs system, then it wouldn't hurt to change the maintainer for the -ubuntu version
[07:54] <ogra> the purpose of utnubu is to grab packages from ubuntu and actively maintain them
[07:54] <siretart> hm
[07:54] <ogra> so whats wrong with them being the package upstream then and grabbing our changes
[07:55] <psusi> see, that's what I was thinking
[07:55] <siretart> ogra: I see the point, but I have another impression from the utnubu team
[07:55] <psusi> that my new modified package would just go to debian under utnubu, and be synced back to ubuntu
[07:55] <ogra> siretart, read the announcement
[07:55] <ogra> its pretty clear
[07:55] <ogra> thats why i wonder all the time what you guys are working on...
[07:56] <siretart> hm, ok, then let it point to utnubu them, even though I'm not that convinced
[07:56] <ogra> since the project already exists
[07:56] <psusi> where can I find more info on the utnubu team?  I should probably discuss this with them
[07:56] <siretart> psusi: http://utnubu.alioth.debian.org/
[07:56] <ogra> we'd just all need to join utnubu and already have the collaboration you all want
[07:57] <siretart> ogra: I think this would be an appropriate idea
[07:57] <ogra> siretart, why ?
[07:57] <ogra> i only see duplication in the other efforts
[07:58] <psusi> ogra, he agreed with you ;)
[07:58] <ogra> oops
[07:58] <ogra> thanks
[07:58] <psusi> ;)
[07:58] <siretart> :)
[07:58] <ogra> i read (in) appropriate :)
[08:00] <psusi> why wasn't the target already set to dapper not unstable?
[08:00] <psusi> isn't that supposed to get translated when packages are synced from debian?
[08:00] <siretart> psusi: because the last upload was targeted for unstable
[08:01] <psusi> but unstable:debian as dapper:ubuntu
[08:01] <siretart> psusi: if I understand you correctly, you are targetting now an upload to dapper
[08:01] <psusi> siretart, aye...
[08:01] <siretart> syncs takes the sourcepackage. it does not mangle with changelogs
[08:01] <psusi> then how does it get built for the right distro in ubuntu?
[08:02] <siretart> psusi: elmo has an magic script, which generates a correct .changes file, so it can get build in ubuntu
[08:03] <psusi> ahhh
[08:03] <siretart> psusi: if you look at what gets uploaded, the .changes file is the interesting part
[08:03] <siretart> psusi: dpkg-buildpackage generates the .changesfile parsing the changelog.
[08:03] <psusi> aye...
[08:04] <siretart> psusi: but thats really implementation detail. don't make yourself too many headaches about it :)
[08:04] <psusi> I understand it now
[08:05] <psusi> so I guess the question is, will my changes break on debian unstable?
[08:05] <psusi> if not, then it should stay targeted at debian unstable, and just get pulled back down in the sync
[08:05] <ogra> siretart, the announcement is on http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/59-Linux-Ball-Utnubu.html btw
[08:07] <siretart> psusi: if you upload to dapper, it will break further syncs from unstable anyway
[08:08] <psusi> siretart, right... but if the changes do work on debian unstable, then I'd just upload there and let it sync back instead of uploading to dapper
[08:08] <siretart> psusi: so if you want the package update to be in debian, I'd suggest working directly in the utnubu svn
[08:08] <psusi> unless that might take a while, in which case I'd upload to dapper, then once debian gets it, clear the resync
[08:08] <siretart> yes
[08:09] <psusi> I'll discuss it on the untubu list to see if the changes are correct for debian... if not, I'll have to fork a dapper -ubuntu version
[08:09] <siretart> ogra: I don't read that they want to take over responsibility over packages, which have no clear maintainer in ubuntu
[08:10] <ogra> "If this is not possible or feasable, take Ubuntu-only packages, adjust them to Debian and upload them ourselves."
[08:10] <siretart> ogra: but that perhaps interpretation of the announcement. we should really talk to them what that line means
[08:10] <ogra> hmm, how else do you read that sentence then ?
[08:10] <ogra> they wanted to be the hub that brings our patches into debian ...
[08:10] <siretart> thats right
[08:10] <siretart> m
[08:10] <siretart> hm
[08:10] <siretart> how to explain
[08:10] <ogra> where there are new packages, they wanted to care for them
[08:11] <ogra> thats why i'm confused that we have this big collaboration discussion going on ...
[08:11] <siretart> I find it rather confusing to have a package in ubuntu, which has as maintainer the 'utnubu team', which brings packages from ubuntu to debian
[08:12] <siretart> this seems to me to be a hickhack in resposibility
[08:13] <siretart> wb dholbach
[08:13] <psusi> seems to me it is no different than having the maintainer be the motu list
[08:13] <dholbach> just testing new xchat
[08:13] <psusi> just instead of a ubuntu only group, it's the ubuntu-debian group
[08:13] <dholbach> (j
[08:13] <dholbach> oops
[08:14] <siretart> hm
[08:14] <siretart> anyway
[08:14] <siretart> psusi: have you talked to fabbione about the future of dmraid?
[08:15] <siretart> psusi: because I don't see much point of it having it elsewhere than main. but in main it would need integration into initramfs and the installer. this means great coordination efford with the appropriate people, like fabbione and Kamion
[08:18] <psusi> siretart, fabbione seems to not have any time or interest for it since breezy was released...
[08:18] <siretart> hm i see
[08:18] <psusi> in any case, it is now fully integrated with the initramfs
[08:19] <siretart> and so I'm willing to upload it for you
[08:19] <psusi> I think it just might need to be udebified, then moved to main, and integrated with the installer and added to the base seed
[08:19] <siretart> but I want to make sure that this is really what you want
[08:19] <psusi> ok... let me discuss with utnubu first... if it needs to go -ubuntu then I'll upload a new version with that and you can upload that to universe
[08:20] <psusi> then hopefully my spec for getting it into main and the installer will be approved
[08:23] <siretart> I'm not sure that this really warranted a spec. it seems to me rather a feature enhancement to the installer, e.g. ubuntu express, on which kamion is currently
[08:23] <siretart> working
[08:27] <psusi> well... yea... there's a spec for that ;)
[08:54] <odal> i'm just curious...when is flight #3 slated to be released?
[08:55] <dholbach> odal: ogra should know :)
[08:56] <odal> could someone tell me the version number of slypheed-claws-gtk2 in dapper right now?  i'm thinking of moving over from debian
[08:56] <odal> btw, i know this isn't the general ubuntu channel
[08:56] <dholbach> packages.ubuntu.com/sylpheed-claws-gtk2 should know
[08:56] <siretart> sylpheed-claws-gtk2 |  1.9.100-2 |        dapper | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[08:56] <odal> dholbach, thanks!
[08:56] <siretart> madison-lite, too ;)
[08:57] <blue-frog> hi guys/gals, have done a bash script (operating with menus) which automates (as much as I could do it with my meager knowledge of bash). I am looking for a real programmer who could translate that in metapackages/debconf... everything needed to make it clean.
[08:57] <blue-frog> which automates the install of a samba-ldap server abd other things...
[08:57] <odal> siretart, great!
[08:58] <siretart> blue-frog: do you have a website describing your project?
[08:58] <ogra> odal, flight3 -> asap
[08:58] <ogra> i think beginning of next week ... between tomorrow and wednesday
[08:58] <odal> ogra, oh...great
[08:58] <blue-frog> no not yet but I can provide what I have done so far anyone interested. A quick explanation of what the script is for can be found inside the menus of my script
[09:00] <blue-frog> and I would explain in a mail as well what are my ideas of course.
[09:07] <dholbach> have a nice evening.
[09:27] <odal> is there a new maintainers guide for ubuntu similar to the mew maintainers guide for debian that i could read?
[09:40] <Hieronymus> odal: no, just read maint-guide
[10:34] <odal> glad to seem emelfm is in dapper ;)