[12:19] <Seveas> When will flight 3 be announced?
[12:19] <Kamion> Seveas: the announcement's been in the ubuntu-announce@ moderation queue for hours; I can't do anything about it
[12:19] <Kamion> jdub: please moderate kthx :)
[12:19] <Seveas> hehe
[12:19] <jdub> Kamion: morning!
[12:20] <daniels> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS
[12:20] <daniels> et al
[12:20] <daniels> i'll be your jdub for this evening
[12:20] <Seveas> hmm, /me gets a vision of daniels in an orange overall....
[12:20] <daniels> dholbach: hug day, eh
[12:21] <jdub> Kamion: whooosh
[12:21] <dholbach> Everyday's a HUG day! :)
[12:21] <Kamion> jdub: ta
[12:23] <daniels> dholbach: hoorah
[12:38] <mpt> daniels, "et al" meaning "and those who hate freedom too"? :-)
[12:39] <daniels> mpt: more along the lines of 'and other jdubisms'
[12:39] <mpt> ah, et seq
[12:44] <dholbach> good night everybody.
[12:48] <tseng> Kamion: the one stage installer is amazing, nice work
[12:51] <Kamion> tseng: glad you like it; well over half the credit belongs to joeyh, mind
[12:51] <Kamion> though I admit to writing debconf-apt-progress, which helped :)
[12:51] <tseng> :)
[12:52] <poningru> how come the flight 3 email isnt sent yet?
[12:52] <tseng> poningru: its sent since hours.
[12:52] <poningru> oh sorry
[12:52] <Kamion> poningru: it was only just moderated; the list server is presumably chugging its way through the thousands of subscribers
[12:54] <poningru> ah gotcha
[12:54] <poningru> cause I still havent gotten it
[12:54] <poningru> thanks tseng, Kamion 
[12:54] <HiddenWolf> poningru: it's in here.
[12:54] <HiddenWolf> on it's way.
[12:55] <infinity> elmo: Around?
[12:55] <elmo> infinity: maybe
[12:55] <infinity> Oh, yay!
[12:56] <infinity> Care to hit the big red button on an autosync run?
[12:56] <elmo> oh, right
[12:56] <elmo> err, hang on
[12:56] <elmo> autosync?
[12:56] <elmo> no
[12:57] <infinity> As well as syncing wvdial (overwrite okay), and neon from experimental (so we can get the new subversion)?
[12:57] <elmo> our mirror doesn't get updated for a while yet
[12:57] <infinity> No more autosync?  UVF isn't for 3 days... Oh.  Mirror update.  Right.
[12:57] <elmo> UVF is in 3 days?  eek
[12:57] <infinity> Eek indeed.
[12:58] <daniels> haha
[12:58] <daniels> suckers
[12:58] <daniels> (ahem)
[01:01] <jdub> what does << mean in depends definition again?
[01:01] <daniels> less than
[01:01] <elmo> must be less than
[01:01] <daniels> <<, <=, =, =>, >>
[01:01] <jdub> oh, i see
[01:01] <jdub> thanks
[01:01] <jdub> thought it might be an extra special less than
[01:01] <daniels> it doesn't mean left shift :)
[01:01] <daniels> haha
[01:01] <jdub> LESS THAN OR DIE
[01:01] <daniels> really, seriously less than
[01:01] <daniels> we're not shitting you this time
[01:04] <Kamion> it used to be < and > but was changed; I forget why
[01:05] <mpt> it looks prettier
[01:05] <Kamion> mpt: ah, no, found the reference
[01:05] <Kamion> < and > were (I suspect mistakenly) used to mean <= and >=
[01:05] <jdub> Kamion: !
[01:05] <Kamion> since that was obviously confusing and fixing it would've broken compatibility, << and >> were introduced instead
[01:06] <jdub> compatibility >> stupidity
[01:06] <jdub> ;-)
[01:06] <Kamion> I guess it was originally < = > and then < and > were each split into two forms
[01:06] <Kamion> but the changelog isn't clear and the bug report predates bug archiving
[01:10] <elmo> infinity: done
[01:12] <infinity> elmo: Yay.
[01:29] <jdub> hrm, can i optionally build depend on something?
[01:29] <daniels> Build-Depends: some-crap | libc6
[01:29] <jdub> i was thinking python-gst | python-gst0.10
[01:29] <jdub> but i actually want both
[01:30] <jdub> oh right
[01:30] <jdub> cheeky
[01:30] <jdub> thanks
[01:30] <daniels> (if you actually upload that to the archive, I am totally not responsible.  especially if elmo finds out.)
[01:30] <jdub> heh
[01:30] <jdub> is there a sensible way of doing it that elmo will not yell at me for?
[01:31] <daniels> well, it's not really a Build-*Depends* if it's optional ...
[01:31] <infinity> jdub: Optional build-deps are just plain wrong.
[01:32] <jdub> it's for breezy source compat :-)
[01:32] <infinity> jdub: We want homogenous builds on the buildds.  Saying "well, sometimes would could install this and the package will be different" is just..  Eww.
[01:32] <jdub> yeah, it just means that the builds will differ between breezy and dapper
[01:32] <infinity> jdub: For breezy backporting, then use the form "dapper-build-dep | breezy-build-dep", so we'll pick up the dapper on and ignore the breezy one.
[01:32] <jdub> yeah, but in this case, that's python-gst0.10 | libc6
[01:33] <infinity> Erm, no.
[01:33] <daniels> i can't remember how the sbuild semantics work
[01:33] <infinity> Oddly, I can. :)
[01:33] <jdub> it's python-gst0.10 on dapper or nothing on breezy
[01:33] <daniels> i think in debian it always tries the first one if possible, but ubuntu's will happily continue if one of the alternatives is already installed
[01:33] <jdub> both will depend on python-gst (0.8)
[01:34] <jdub> btw, is this correct for build-depends: python-twisted (>= 1.3.0), python-twisted (<< 2.1.0)
[01:34] <infinity> daniels: In both cases (Debian and Ubuntu), if one is installed, it wins.
[01:34] <daniels> obviously the only solution is to make python-gst depend on python-gst0.10 in dapper ;)
[01:34] <daniels> infinity: i see
[01:34] <infinity> daniels: Our difference is that if the first is uninstallable, we try the alternatives.
[01:34] <infinity> s/uninstallable/unavailable/
[01:34] <jdub> daniels: python-gst == 0.8, python-gst0.10 = 0.10
[01:35] <daniels> jdub: i know, hence the ;)
[01:35] <jdub> you're a bad person
[01:35] <daniels> infinity: ah.  i remember debian's being retarded, but not the exact stupidity.
[01:35] <jdub> so, afaics, | libc6 is the solution here
[01:35] <daniels> jdub: well, duh.  hacking X, remember?
[01:35] <infinity> jdub: No.  No, no, no. :)
[01:35] <azeem> infinity: but in Debian, if the alternative is already installed, sbuild continues anyway, right?
[01:35] <daniels> jdub: mmm, but that won't get installed in dapper either, since libc6 is already installed
[01:35] <infinity> azeem: Right.
[01:35] <jdub> daniels: nice!
[01:36] <jdub> so is there a solution, or do i molest the package for breezy compat?
[01:36] <daniels> yeah.  it was a cute idea though.
[01:36] <daniels> molest is always best
[01:37] <infinity> jdub: Erm, why would you want BOTH python-gst and python-gst0.10 as build-deps in dapper anyway?
[01:37] <infinity> jdub: That seems broken.
[01:37] <jdub> infinity: it sounds broken, but makes total sense. flumotion will happily use either.
[01:38] <jdub> some will want to run it with 0.8, some with 0.10
[01:38] <infinity> jdub: Anyhow, if you do, you can use "Build-Depends: python-gst, python-gst0.10 | python-gst (<< 0.8.2)" may do what you want.
[01:38] <jdub> ahr!
[01:39] <infinity> (Note that breezy is 0.8.1, dapper is 0.8.2)
[01:39] <daniels> note the <<, rather than <
[01:40] <jdub> << >> <
[01:40] <daniels> bad man
[01:41] <jdub> infinity: that's pretty sick. thanks.
[01:41] <infinity> Sick as in "wrong", or "fully"?
[01:42] <infinity> (Why has this country perverted me to the point where I have to ask that?)
[01:42] <jdub> infinity: there are a few cultural mistakes you should dodge while you're here.
[01:42] <jdub> ha ha
[01:42] <jdub> DODGE
[01:45] <Burgwork> jdub, for example content, I completely failed in getting those gnumeric example files. Do you want me to create some from scratch?
[01:45] <jdub> Burgwork: no, don't worry about it - there'll be an e-c release schedule this week for us to work to, with some modified responsibilities and so on
[01:46] <Burgwork> jdub, ok. I should still be able to work on some of the smaller things
[01:47] <whiprush> jdub: going to bed, can you do the flight3 announcement for fridge?
[01:47] <jdub> whiprush: yeha
[01:47] <whiprush> woo!
[01:49] <Lathiat> elmo: How come?
[01:49] <Lathiat> elmo: (change preferred email)
[01:50] <Kamion> Lathiat: it's used for figuring out where your @ubuntu.com mail should redirect to
[01:50] <Lathiat> oh
[01:50] <Lathiat> heh
[01:50] <Kamion> obviously there's a bit of a problem there if you set it to @ubuntu.com
[01:50] <Lathiat> changed
[01:56] <zul> Kamion: there is a new version of grub to be synched..do you want me to test it out?
[02:13] <psusi> ok damnit... these patches must be on top of some other changes since the last released kernel sources... can someone learn me how to use git to get the most current sources?  I'm used to svn
[02:13] <HiddenWolf> psusi: ubuntu-kernel
[02:14] <psusi> wait... think I found it bundled for download at kernel.org... how nice of them...
[02:15] <zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide
[02:15] <psusi> ahh...
[02:16] <infinity> Kamion / elmo: If someone can NEW the neon binaries for me, I can get the new subversion in right away (which would be spiffy)
[02:17] <infinity> Kamion / elmo: Should go to main, not universe (will be a build-dep of stuff in main)
[02:17] <HiddenWolf> infinity: still needs an inclusionreport then?
[02:17] <infinity> HiddenWolf: No, it's just an SONAME bump.
[02:18] <HiddenWolf> ah, ok.
[02:18] <infinity> HiddenWolf: But those sometimes get NEWed to universe, so I was being specific. :)
[02:32] <elmo> infinity: hey, what about apache? :/
[02:34] <desrt> elmo; do you know what the story with my RT request is?
[02:34] <desrt> (about non-working email)
[02:35] <elmo> desrt: try it
[02:36] <desrt> oh.  awesome.  it works now :)
[02:37] <desrt> did not a few days ago.  thx.
[02:37] <desrt> (plz close RT ticket)
[02:37] <infinity> elmo: What about it?  You want 2.2 you mean?
[02:38] <sistpoty> elmo: I've got some sync requests (6)... should I send you a mail or may I spam right here?
[02:38] <elmo> sistpoty: either is fine
[02:40] <sistpoty> elmo: ok... first for motu-hopeful Yann Rouillard <yann@pleiades.fr.eu.org>: dosage, gnome-backgrounds, openbox, oroborus and sailcut (ubuntu override ok, I verified these)
[02:41] <sistpoty> elmo: for motu-hopeful Raphael Pinson <raphink@gmail.com>: eagle (ubuntu override ok, I verified this one as well)
[02:42] <sistpoty> elmo: and for me ;): nvtv, ocamlcreal (ubuntu override ok)... thx!
[02:43] <infinity> elmo: Oh, if autosync isn't in the cards for a while, an apache2 sync would be nice too (security updates).
[02:53] <jdub> how do i try bz2 packages?
[02:54] <crimsun> elmo: please sync nvu, osdclock, rxvt-unicode, seyon, and sp-gxmlcpp from Sid (overriding Ubuntu changes), thanks
[02:54] <elmo> jdub: look at dive-into-python
[02:55] <jdub> elmo: ta
[02:57] <SwitchBoxz> must go today 1 alienware laptop area51-m 5700 price $500 price includes shipping, wireless router and carry case, 1 alienware desktop area51 7500 price $550 including shipping, monitor, speakers.  message me if interested on aim at mikcomputing, aim at mcsltd3@hotmail.com or yahoo at mcsltd2 only if interested and wanting to buy.  willing to put on a yahoo buy it now auction
[02:57] <mjg59> SwitchBoxz: ?
[03:03] <jdub> elmo: hmm, is source bz2 possible?
[03:03] <tseng> jdub: no.
[03:03] <jdub> bummer
[03:07] <elmo> yes it is
[03:07] <elmo> see glibc or gcc
[03:07] <elmo> it's just not direct
[03:07] <jdub> bz2 in the tarball?
[03:07] <elmo> yes
[03:07] <jdub> yick ;)
[03:07] <elmo> *shrug* it works
[03:08] <jdub> 258K -> 228K, 655K -> 489K, 156K -> 127K, 113K -> 109K
[03:08] <jdub> elmo: gentoo -> humboldt for planet sometime?
[03:08] <elmo> jdub: please send it to RT?
[03:09] <jdub> i already did
[03:09] <elmo> ticket #?
[03:09] <jdub> no idea, i wasn't getting replies when i sent that one
[03:09] <elmo> rt@admin.canonical.com ?
[03:09] <jdub> (i no longer use sender address verification)
[03:09] <elmo> jdub: those aren't great savings, considering the cost of bz2
[03:09] <jdub> yeah
[03:10] <jdub> flumotion-common is tempting, but not enough
[03:10] <elmo> also bear in mind every time we bz2 a package, it's a permanent fork from debian
[03:11] <elmo> jdub: your ticket didn't make it, pls resend?
[03:12] <jdub> elmo: done
[03:13] <wasabi> Oh geeze. 
[03:13] <wasabi> When did notification bubbles becomes so crazy.
[03:31] <Mez> jdub:ping
[03:31] <jdub> Lathiat: upstream bug
[03:31] <jdub> Mez: pong
[03:32] <Mez> lo :D can you temporarily remoe me from planet - I'm having a few problems with my host :D have just transferred to a new one - nee to set up my website again
[03:32] <jdub> Mez: no, can't edit planet as is.
[03:32] <jdub> Mez: i'll comment you out from the new one.
[03:33] <Mez> jdub: ok - well hopefully ... It should only take a day or two to fix things
[03:35] <infinity> elmo: sync+overwrite xplc, please.
[03:37] <elmo> should someone maybe send out a reminder about UVF, btw?
[03:37] <elmo> infinity: done
[03:37] <crimsun> elmo: done last week.
[03:37] <crimsun> (err, well, for the MOTU)
[03:37] <elmo> really?  go my reading comprehension skills
[03:37] <infinity> Yeah, I think I missed it too.
[03:37] <elmo> oh, well, how about core-dev?  they have sucky memories too ;-)
[03:37] <infinity> Of course, I knew it was coming anyway..
[03:38] <infinity> elmo: Speaking of you and UVF, how do you feel about the binutils snapshot in sid/dapper right now?  Happy enough with it to keep it for 5 years?
[03:39] <elmo> not desperately, but there's not much I can do about it
[03:39] <infinity> drow's not planning an upstream release anytime soon, I take it?
[03:39] <elmo> well, actually, ubuntu could have stuck with 2.16.1 - I dunno who chose to sync with Debian
[03:40] <elmo> he said before April - which of course, I realise now was the wrong question, but drow's release schedule is err, super-fluid
[03:40] <infinity> I think we synced for the sake of an SCC (hppa, maybe?), but you'd have to ask doko.
[03:40] <infinity> Or maybe it was sparc.  I dunno.
[03:41] <infinity> Somebody was unhappy with 2.16.1
[03:41] <elmo> you guys backported the patch to 2.16.1 and disabled the testsuite for those arches
[03:41] <infinity> Oh, good point.
[03:41] <infinity> Then I have no idea why.
[03:41] <infinity> Could have just been the general ickiness of having testsuites disabled.
[03:42] <elmo> to be honest, using a cvs snapshot isn't so bad, it's pretty close to what other distros use ("Linux Binutils") just modulo the hj specific crack
[03:42] <elmo> I'll ping drow anyway
[03:43] <mjg59> Nngh.
[03:43] <mjg59> I *really* hate kernel bug reports where the backtrace makes no sense
[03:43] <psusi> doesn't the setup cd have a cramfs on it or something that is mounted as the root?
[03:43] <mjg59> Memory overwriting is a bastard to fix
[03:43] <infinity> Yeah, I don't care one way or the other, just wanted to know if you were comfy with it, since you maintain it in Debian, and we're likely to come whining to you if we have a problem (since we know where to find you). :)
[03:44] <elmo> mjg59: valgrind the kernel
[03:45] <psusi> mjg59, I've got a similar problem... coredump from a multithreaded app and gdb gives nonsense for the non segfaulting threads... try to gdb it and catch the segv, and the process terminates out from under gdb
[03:46] <jdub> elmo: http://perkypants.org/blog/2006/01/17/kthxbye/
[03:46] <jdub> elmo: thought you'd enjoy that
[03:47] <whiprush> jdub: dude, about my business cards ...
[03:47] <psusi> does the setup cd have a root filesystem image of some kind or does setup run entirely out of the initrd?
[03:50] <elmo> jdub: haha
[03:50] <elmo> infinity: yeah, bzzt, we lose, cvs love.  I'll update debian over the next day or two and recommend we sync that
[03:50] <elmo> 2.17 will be close to that, so we may be able to exception it later, or not, but *shrug*
[03:52] <infinity> Hrm.  Cute wanna-build bug.
[03:52] <infinity> elmo: wanna-build -b ia64/build-db -i apache2
[03:52] <infinity> elmo: Spot the oddity. :)
[03:52] <infinity> elmo: (I'll --forget it after it's been installed to clear that, but.  Uhm.  WTF?)
[03:52] <elmo> I don't get it?
[03:53] <infinity> It's in state "building", but has a dep-wait.
[03:53] <infinity> (It was previously in "installed", also with a dep-wait)
[03:53] <elmo> I think the Depends just doesn't get cleared?
[03:53] <infinity> That doesn't seem possible. :)
[03:53] <elmo> it's harmless?
[03:54] <infinity> it's harmless in this case, but it does normally get cleared with cron.daily.
[03:54] <infinity> Just odd, that's all.
[03:55] <jdub> whiprush: hrm?
[03:56] <elmo> w-b odd, and now here's tom with the weather
[03:57] <whiprush> jdub: I was joking ...
[03:58] <jdub> whiprush: oh, i thought you were wondering about an ubuntu business card or something
[04:03] <whiprush> jdub: I was attempting to poke fun at your blog entry ...
[04:03] <jdub> oh
[04:07] <infinity> elmo: Oh, also, in the interest of cleaning up the seeds (part of ReducingDuplication and AdamIsAnallyRetentive), can we get a newer germinate on jackass that understands the %srcpkg syntax?
[04:15] <infinity> _pg.error: FATAL:  user "adconrad" does not exist
[04:15] <infinity> Erm.
[04:15] <infinity> -EWIN. :)
[04:18] <elmo> pfft
[04:18] <elmo> I hate it that every germinate update breaks cron.sync, I REALLY DO
[04:20] <lifeless> can you write a check script ?
[04:20] <infinity> elmo: Oh, while I'm being irritating, xplc was an SONAME bump as well (again, NEW to main)
[04:21] <elmo> lifeless: the best test case would require the entire ubuntu archive
[04:21] <elmo> or at least the indices for it
[04:21] <lifeless> elmo: well, indices might be doable.
[04:23] <elmo> actually in this case it might more be a case of concurrent cron jobs and my famous inability to master such complexities as, err, locking.  but _anyway_
[04:24] <infinity> Cron locking is just a crutch for people who can't tell time.
[04:25] <elmo> infinity: done anyway - the diff looks odd, but not enough for me to care at this time of morning
[04:47] <robertj> hrmm, are flight announcements fridge material?
[04:49] <elmo> robertj: if they're ubuntu-announce material, I'd say so, yes
[04:56] <teroedni> is network-admin unstable in dapper?
[06:23] <dooglus> what is the source-package name for dapper's new "Exit" window?
[06:23] <Mithrandir> we need a tool which you can use to say "who owns this window".  A bit like xprop.
[06:23] <dooglus> I tried "xwininfo" on it, but it didn't tell me anything useful
[06:25] <Mithrandir> it says: WM_CLASS(STRING) = "gnome-session", "Gnome-session"
[06:25] <Mithrandir> here at least.
[06:32] <dooglus> yes, I noticed that Mithrandir, just before I got disconnected from my IRC machine :)
[06:32] <dooglus> thanks.
[08:07] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <desrt> hello.
[08:16] <pitti> Good morning
[08:16] <Yagisan> pitti: morning
[08:16] <desrt> hello too.
[08:18] <Yagisan> pitti: do we have a rss feed for USN ?
[08:23] <pitti> Yagisan: I think Seveas has
[08:23] <HiddenWolf> I believe so too, but couldn't find it.
[08:25] <Yagisan> pitti: HiddenWolf: thanks
[08:25] <bytee_> so, is there a way to find who owns a package from Malone ?
[08:27] <pitti> packages are not owned in Ubuntu
[08:27] <bytee_> ah, fair enough. so if there was a bug, it should be upstreamed at Debian then ?
[08:27] <pitti> bytee_: everybody has his pet packages of course, but everybody can do everything in principle
[08:27] <pitti> bytee_: no, it's fine to report it to Malone
[08:27] <bytee_> pitti: fair enough. i'm just after who own's the mysql package in Ubuntu
[08:28] <Yagisan> pitti: /me thinks of a few packages that could have been 0wn3d in ubuntu :-P
[08:28] <pitti> bytee_: if a package has a de-facto maintainer, then it will be automatically assigned to the right person
[08:28] <bytee_> btw, hi pitti. long time since UDU :)
[08:28] <pitti> heh, hi :)
[08:28] <bytee_> pitti: i haven't found a bug, but am building up a list of MySQL contact points for distros shipping MySQL. so was wondering who'd be the best person in the Ubuntu team
[08:29] <pitti> bytee_: mysql is one of the packages nobody is really attached to, but file it nevertheless, please. infinity might be interested :)
[08:29] <pitti> hmm
[08:29] <bytee_> hmm, maybe i should give it some love, if required.
[08:30] <pitti> bytee_: I think infinity or I wouldn't be the worst initial contacts; we can still forward it to Debian or to another Ubuntu dev
[08:30] <bytee_> pitti: heh, thanks. i'll note that down.
[08:38] <pitti> hey mvo
[08:39] <dholbach> hey pitti, mvo
[08:40] <mvo> hello pitti, dholbach! good morning to the rest of the crew
[08:46] <mdke> infinity, nudge?
[08:49] <Burgundavia> pitti, I have a few reports int he forums of nautilus not showing icons on mounting. I assume that is a bug, not a policy decision?
[08:52] <Seveas> Yagisan, HiddenWolf, pitti: http://ubuntulinux.nl/files/usn.xml
[08:53] <doko> pitti: could you have a look at the rp, build failure?
[08:53] <pitti> Burgundavia: indeed, I just replied to a similar email on u-devel
[08:53] <pitti> thanks Seveas 
[08:53] <pitti> doko: rp ?
[08:54] <Burgundavia> pitti, ok, I will calm those on the forums
[08:54] <pitti> thanks 
[08:54] <pitti> odd, sounds like a gamin bug or so
[08:54] <pitti> although gvfs should use inotify now
[08:56] <slomo_> elmo: please sync taglib, fatsort and pygame from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[08:56] <desrt> interesting how gamin is still running on dapper
[08:56] <Burgundavia> desrt, don't jinx it
[08:57] <Burgundavia> desrt, funny that gamin works on my dapper machine but not on my (supposedly stable) FC4 box at work
[08:57] <desrt> Burgundavia; afaik it has no reason to run?
[08:57] <doko> pitti: rpm
[08:57] <pitti> ah
[08:57] <Burgundavia> desrt, inotify should do it?
[08:57] <desrt> Burgundavia; gnome-vfs uses inotify now
[08:58] <Burgundavia> desrt, what about local file changes?
[08:58] <desrt> Burgundavia; you use gnome-vfs for local access too
[08:58] <desrt> Burgundavia; and in fact inotify _only_ works for local
[08:58] <Burgundavia> desrt, ah, my mistake. I don't understand how that part of the system works at all. I will just shut up now
[08:59] <desrt> Burgundavia; used to be gamin lsitened to inotify and gnome-vfs registered watches with gamin
[08:59] <desrt> Burgundavia; and apps registered watches with gnome-vfs which would go through gamin
[08:59] <desrt> Burgundavia; now the middleman is cut out and gnome-vfs goes straight to inotify bypassing gamin
[08:59] <Burgundavia> pitti, new hal coming down soon
[08:59] <desrt> Burgundavia; probably, though, some weird app is using gamin directly still
[09:00] <desrt> Burgundavia; released already, i think
[09:00] <pitti> Burgundavia: tomorrow is UVF, I hope it'll make it in time
[09:00] <dholbach> on the 19th, no?
[09:00] <Burgundavia> desrt, shoudn't the build deps be change, so it makes it fairly easy to find which app?
[09:00] <desrt> pitti; this needs to make it.  gnome desltop components already depend on it :)
[09:01] <Burgundavia> pitti, new gpm requires it
[09:01] <desrt> pitti; new nautilus-cd-burner needs it too
[09:01] <dholbach> what are you talking about?
[09:01] <Burgundavia> looks like g-p-m and g-screensaver are a go for 2.14
[09:01] <dholbach> what is required?
[09:01] <desrt> we're bullying martin into breaking UVF :)
[09:01] <desrt> (non-exitant UVF... all the more fun)
[09:01] <Burgundavia> desrt, not yet, that starts on the 20th
[09:02] <dholbach> if you refer to gnome-vfs, that's GNOME, that has exception anyway
[09:02] <desrt> dholbach; we refer to hal
[09:02] <pitti> desrt: welll, in this case it will fall under the gnome desktop goal exception
[09:02] <dholbach> ah ok
[09:02] <desrt> i love that exception
[09:03] <Burgundavia> desrt, you figure beagle for 2.16?
[09:03] <desrt> Burgundavia; mono is still a touchy issue
[09:03] <desrt> Burgundavia; i figure if mono made it in for 2.16 we'd have some killer awesome apps come with it
[09:03] <Burgundavia> like f-spot, instead of gthumb
[09:04] <desrt> and muine or banshee instead of rhythmbox
[09:04] <desrt> and tomboy instead of stickynotes
[09:04] <pitti> desrt, Burgundavia: oh, 0.5.6 was just released
[09:05] <Burgundavia> desrt, I figure if mono goes in, it needs to go in a big way, to justify it
[09:05] <desrt> Burgundavia; pressure is building
[09:06] <pitti> desrt: oh, I didn't see that
[09:06] <desrt> Burgundavia; there's no doubt in anyone's mind that it would be an asset to the platform
[09:06] <stub> launchpad will be going down in just over 5 minutes for its regular update. Estimated down time is 20 mins. This will put the wiki's into read only mode.
[09:06] <Burgundavia> desrt, what are you doing still up, anyway?
[09:06] <desrt> stub; best of luck
[09:06] <desrt> Burgundavia; i'm retarded.  my sleep pattern is totally whacked
[09:07] <Burgundavia> desrt, do you work at usual hours like real people?
[09:07] <desrt> i'm a student
[09:07] <desrt> but this term is pretty cool... classes don't start until noon
[09:07] <Burgundavia> ah, not real people like those of who actually work ;)
[09:08] <Burgundavia> desrt, even if .16 does do mono, dapper+1 needs to
[09:08] <desrt> Burgundavia; dapper+1's name is edgy
[09:08] <Burgundavia> desrt, choosing rb vs banshee is going to suck a lot of wind out of the other
[09:08] <desrt> banshee isn't mature enough for dapper..  not by a longshot
[09:09] <Burgundavia> no
[09:09] <desrt> but by edgy things will probably be quite a different story
[09:09] <Burgundavia> I am thinking upstream here
[09:09] <pitti> doko: weird, it looks as if libsepol would not provide a static library, or so
[09:10] <desrt> ahh
[09:10] <desrt> Burgundavia; well.. release-team likes to be ... non-controversial
[09:10] <Burgundavia> desrt, yes, because they need to be neutral
[09:10] <desrt> Burgundavia; so i doubt they'd drop rhythmbox unless there were uhm.. circumstances
[09:10] <Burgundavia> desrt, rb is not a default module
[09:11] <desrt> k.  i was dead wrong.
[09:11] <Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointThirteen_2fDesktop
[09:12] <Burgundavia> everybody (including myself) assumed that
[09:12] <desrt> cool.  looks like the decision is still open then
[09:12] <Burgundavia> because every gnome distro ships it
[09:12] <Burgundavia> I like muine, but they need a way to burn cds, etc.
[09:12] <desrt> fair.
[09:12] <Burgundavia> playing a cd within muine does not break the interface, nor does burning
[09:12] <desrt> hey... speaking of distros not shipping gnome-defaults
[09:13] <desrt> is flash working in firefox for you?
[09:13] <Burgundavia> no idea, my dapper machine needs to be resurrected tomorrow
[09:13] <desrt> works great in ephy....
[09:13] <desrt> ya.  seriously
[09:14] <desrt> it's better in absolutely every way except for the availability of plugins
[09:14] <Burgundavia> the ephy people are racing hard to fix that
[09:14] <Burgundavia> but the issue is sort of dead until xulrunner is in decent shape
[09:15] <desrt> are they planning on running ff plugins?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> no, but the big ones they are recreating
[09:15] <Burgundavia> and to be honest, it will be like evolution and thunderbird
[09:15] <Burgundavia> some will install firefox, and others will leave it ephy
[09:16] <desrt> it will not be like that.
[09:16] <desrt> epiphany is good :)
[09:16] <Burgundavia> I have heard evo has gotten some serious love this time around
[09:16] <desrt> who told you that and from where did they hear it?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> just things I have picked up from mailing lists, etc.
[09:17] <desrt> hmm
[09:17] <desrt> and sometimes i have to xkill it because it randomly crashes
[09:17] <Burgundavia> the current evo on my work computer is 2.2, which really sucks at forwarding anything
[09:18] <Burgundavia> desrt, http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/nextpandemic/index.html <-- if you get a chance, see this
[09:21] <desrt> hmm
[09:21] <desrt> fictional blogs are an interesting concept
[09:22] <Burgundavia> desrt, what are your thoughts on the divergent paths ubuntu and upstream are taking on the logout dialog?
[09:22] <desrt> it's such a little issue
[09:22] <desrt> the ubuntu one looks flashy
[09:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:23] <desrt> and it meets the requirements that we layed out in the power management BOF
[09:23] <Burgundavia> but doesn't really fit in and feels unpolished
[09:23] <desrt> (or at least it's a lot closer to meeting them)
[09:23] <dholbach> lmanul is happy to get suggestions improving it.
[09:24] <desrt> it needs to be less of a dialog and more of a 'right now i own your desktop' type thing :)
[09:24] <Burgundavia> dholbach, I am stuck for actual concrete suggestions, beyond that
[09:24] <dholbach> But that's the only thing that helps.
[09:24] <desrt> the fact that you can move, background, windowshade, etc it.... very bad
[09:24] <Burgundavia> why can the logout dialog not use the gksu greying of the screen
[09:24] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:24] <desrt> Burgundavia; yes.  like this.
[09:24] <desrt> Burgundavia; that's exactly what i want to say
[09:25] <dholbach> Ask him.
[09:25] <dholbach> :)
[09:25] <desrt> what's this guy's email address?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> desrt, email ubuntu-desktop
[09:25] <desrt> man i hate that list
[09:26] <Burgundavia> desrt, why?
[09:26] <desrt> every time i email it people are like "oh that's a HORRIBLE idea!"
[09:26] <desrt> :)
[09:26] <dholbach> That's not true. :-)
[09:26] <Burgundavia> the icons need to "de-shinyified"
[09:27] <Burgundavia> desrt, you going to email the list to start a thread?
[09:28] <desrt> yes.
[09:28] <Burgundavia> desrt, what do you call it when you set a window like gksu does? transient or intransient?
[09:30] <Burgundavia> anyway, I need to crash. I will respond to that email on the logout dialog tomorrow
[09:32] <desrt> thread started
[09:34] <dholbach> night desrt
[09:43] <janimo> anyone else got about the lower one fifth of the install screen unused (black?) as if it inherited 640x400 from usplash instead of 640x480...
[09:43] <janimo> flight 3
[09:44] <janimo> and  it again does not install on 64M RAM, debconf and frontend get alternately OOM killed in a cycle after getting over the networking setup (lack of it since I delayed it)
[09:44] <janimo> will file bugs as soon as LP gets up
[09:51] <lexhider> anyone tell my why launchpad is down?
[09:51] <crimsun> because it's routine maintenance
[09:52] <jamesh> lexhider: scheduled maintenance (rolling out new code)
[09:52] <jamesh> lexhider: shouldn't be too much longer
[09:52] <lexhider> cool
[09:53] <janimo> jamesh, are the new features documented somewhere as they are being rolled out in LP
[09:54] <janimo> or are we just supposed to be pleasantly surprised from time to time?
[09:56] <jamesh> janimo: not at present.  We do have plans to put up a "what's new" page at some point though
[10:03] <Mithrandir> maswan: ravel-prod
[10:04] <dholbach> mjg59: new gnome-power-manager :))
[10:18] <mdke> elmo, Znarl, is there a problem with adding new accounts to the docteam svn repository?
[10:30] <mvo> does anyone know if there is a maximum for the amount of conffile dpkg can have in it's status file?
[10:31] <Mithrandir> mvo: apt freaks out if you have too many conffiles, at least.
[10:32] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks, I got a report about a problem with ~600 of them
[10:33] <Mithrandir> mvo: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=174945 
[10:33] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 174945: "installing package with lots of conffiles breaks apt (field larger than 32k)" Package: [tagfile]  apt, Version: 0.5.9;, Severity: <em, Maintainer: APT Development Team
[10:34] <mvo> nice! thanks
[10:42] <sivang> hmm, any idea why when subclassing (dict), and "initializing" it on the constructor, to = {} make any additition to it later on in the code disapper?
[10:43] <Den> Mithrandir: U there?
[10:43] <Mithrandir> Den: yes
[10:43] <Den> Mithrandir: I tried the new cd iso, same problem as before
[10:44] <Mithrandir> Den: it appears that ubuntu-desktop (and kubuntu-desktop), so the build failed. :-(
[10:44] <Den> Mithrandir: it comes to the start screen, where I tell it to load the live system,
[10:45] <Den> Mithrandir: it says 'loading the kernel', some stuff flashes by, it says "no record for /block/ram0" in database",
[10:45] <Den> Mithrandir: then it drops me to an ash busybox shell.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> Den: yeah, but as the build failed it's not very useful, since the image is identical to the last one.
[10:45] <Den> Mithrandir: Your last msg to me makes no sense
[10:46] <Mithrandir> Den: the build of the live image failed.
[10:46] <Den> Mithrandir: "it apperas that u-d ___ so the build failed"   
[10:46] <StevenK> infinity/lamont: mkfontdir SEGVs on yellow and floe (as seen in the jnethack build).
[10:47] <infinity> Den: s/___/were uninstallable/
[10:47] <Mithrandir> Den: yes, ubuntu-desktop needs to be installable for it to be, well, installed.  If it's not, the build fails.
[10:47] <Den> Mithrandir: OK, so do oyu know why it failed?
[10:47] <Mithrandir> Den: some dependencies were broken, I'm looking at why now.
[10:47] <pitti> straw poll: what do you guys use for debugging? gdb plain, some vim/emacs integration, any IDE that doesn't suck?
[10:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: gdb + printf.
[10:48] <infinity> StevenK: Fix it? :)
[10:48] <Den> Mithrandir: ok, well, I'd love to get an email from you as soon as you think it will be fixed, so I can try again :)
[10:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: + valgrind.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> Den: yup, will do.
[10:48] <pitti> I find it pretty annoying to always switch between a source window (e. g. vim) and the gdb shell
[10:48] <Den> Mithrandir: thanks.  Any idea when the fix will likely occur?
[10:49] <infinity> StevenK: I'd assume we're looking for a mismatched types bug, since yellow and floe are both 64-bit machines (amd64 and ia64).  I like patches!
[10:49] <Mithrandir> Den: when I understand where python-musicbrainz went.
[10:49] <Den> Mithrandir: ???
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Den: a package called python-musicbrainz (which ubuntu-desktop depends on) isn't in the archive any more.
[10:50] <janimo> pitti, gdb/vim switching here too..
[10:50] <maswan> Mithrandir: poked
[10:50] <maswan> (an hour or so ago :) )
[10:51] <pitti> janimo: I found a pretty nice looking vim plugin, but it requires vim to be built with some server extension, which it isn't in ubuntu
[10:51] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, noticed.  Thanks.
[10:51] <Den> Mithrandir: OK, so, does that sound lke sonething that will be fixed & a new daily live iso is up tomorrow?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> Den: hopefully before tomorrow.  What time zone are you in?
[10:51] <janimo> pitti, yeah I just googled for vim gdb plugin and there are some hits, never tried though
[10:51] <Den> California
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Den: ok, so it's middle of the night for you now, then.  It should be ready in your morning, then
[10:52] <janimo> like this http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1386
[10:52] <Den> Mithrandir: That soon! Great!
[10:53] <Den> Mithrandir: You mean about 4-6 hours from now?
[10:53] <Mithrandir> Den: yes, I certainly hope so
[10:53] <Den> Mithrandir: Great!
[10:56] <janimo> pitti, do you need vim during a gdb session or is this for edit/build then debug cycles?
[10:56] <pitti> janimo: oh, during debug I just want to view the source (and jump around in it), not actually edit it
[10:57] <pitti> janimo: but vim has nice movement/jump stack features, that's why I use it for just about everything anyway
[10:57] <janimo> pitti, can;t you build all with source line info in the exe?
[10:57] <janimo> aha
[10:57] <pitti> janimo: of course I do, and I see the current source line in gdb and all, but that's too limited (at least for *my* brain) to get a better overview about the source
[10:58] <janimo> I see that's true
[10:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: you can list context, you know that? :-)
[10:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: I know
[10:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: but still using sth. like ddd with watches and the full source is more comfortable IMHO
[10:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: but ddd doesn't work over remote ssh debugging and such, that's why I try to train myself to use gdb pure
[10:59] <pitti> but a nice vim plugin would really rock
[10:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: ddd makes me want to poke my eyes out, at least last time I used it.
[11:00] <Den> Mithrandir: BTW, when I'm at that busybox console, ash, I don't see an 'lsmod' to find out what modules are loaded.  Will modprobe -l, or -c or something else list the modules?
[11:00] <infinity> Den: cat /proc/modules
[11:01] <Mithrandir> Den: cat /proc/modules
[11:01] <infinity> Den: Or "more", if you like pagers.
[11:01] <Mithrandir> well, infinity just beat me.
[11:01] <Den> infinity: & Mithrandir thanks
[11:02] <infinity> Mithrandir: It's been suggested in a Debian initramfs-tools bug that I should alias "lsmod" to "more /proc/modules" in the rescue shell.  This seems to be a frequently asked question. :)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> infinity: it would be a reasonable thing, I guess.  Care to fix the exit 1 if it can't resolve deps too? :-)
[11:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: ping?
[11:04] <infinity> Mithrandir: Do I have a bug about it?  I'm getting too swamped to remember random nags and suggestions lately.
[11:04] <koke> is the live-cd installer working in flight 3?
[11:04] <infinity> koke: No.
[11:04] <infinity> koke: It's not included yet.
[11:04] <koke> I'm going to do download one of the images for LaptopTesting
[11:05] <koke> ok, thanks
[11:05] <Den> Mithrandir: You'd told me before that yesterdays live iso would have the firewire in it.  Did that actually get in?  Or, did the build fail cause firewire to not get in?  I ask cause in /dev there was no cdrom listed, and based on you saying "u-desktop needs to be installed" & dependencies were broken" makes me think that maybe the firewire fix got in, and therefore I should have seen /dev/cdrom - right?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> infinity: #28747, nice and fresh, assigned to you.
[11:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: try 'bug 28747' :)
[11:08] <Mithrandir> Den: no, I didn't get around to uploading it before yesterday (my) evening .
[11:08] <pitti> hmm - Ubugtu, AYT?
[11:08] <Den> Mithrandir: OK, thanks for the info.
[11:08] <pitti> bug 28747
[11:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28747: "tools (Ubuntu): should not exit 1.  Ever" Fix req. for: initramfs-tools (Ubuntu), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Adam Conrad, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/28747
[11:09] <pitti> Seveas: ah, so ubugtu ignores stuff in quotes?
[11:10] <Den> Mithrandir: Um, if you uploaded it your yesterday evening, it should have been in the iso I dl'd a couple hours ago, right?
[11:10] <Seveas> pitti, the only characters allowed behind the number are a comma and a space (or no character at all), otherise it would match too much :)
[11:10] <StevenK> infinity: Surely mkfontdir SEGVing is daniels' problem? :-)
[11:11] <Den> Mithrandir: Maybe you call that "today's" iso, not "yesterdays"?
[11:11] <StevenK> infinity: Sorry, I was away doing the dishes.
[11:11] <infinity> StevenK: If that's the daniels who is a) on a bit of a vacation and b) not actually working for Canonical anymore, I agree.
[11:12] <siretart> let's hope I didn't make the situation not even worse.. 
[11:12] <StevenK> Eeek.
[11:12] <Mithrandir> Den: no, it wouldn't because the build (of the live image) failed.
[11:13] <Den> Mithrandir: gotcha, thanks!
[11:14] <StevenK> infinity: When did that happen?
[11:15] <infinity> StevenK: Well, he's not moved on just yet, but he does in early Feb.
[11:15] <StevenK> Crap. mkfontdir works on pergolesi.
[11:16] <infinity> StevenK: Basically, when he's done vacationing. :)
[11:16] <infinity> StevenK: Well, sure.  pergolesi's running Debian...
[11:16] <Mithrandir> StevenK: ask infinity nicely? :-)
[11:17] <infinity> StevenK: Bug me again tomorrow morning, and I'll hunt it all down for you with straces and backtraces and such.
[11:17] <infinity> StevenK: And if it leaps out at me, I'll even fix it too, otherwise I'll give it to you, since I have a full plate.
[11:17] <StevenK> Before or after the TB meeting? :-)
[11:18] <infinity> StevenK: I won't be at the TB meeting, so.  Uh.  "whenever".  I start work at 10ish, local, usually.
[11:20] <hunger_> What about transitional debs (hoary->breezy)? Will they get removed in dapper? Is it OK to depend on them for dapper-debs or should I file a bug when I notice something like that?
[11:21] <infinity> mdke: I hear you, honest. :/
[11:22] <infinity> hunger_: Depending on a transition package (if it's clearly such) is a bug, yes.
[11:23] <hunger_> infinity: I.e. xlibs claims to be transitional, but todays gnome-control-center depends on it. So that is a bug?
[11:23] <hunger_> Why are those debs still around to depend on in the first place?
[11:24] <infinity> hunger_: Erm, yeah.  Anything depending on xlibs is very much a bug.
[11:24] <infinity> hunger_: They're around to easy partial upgrades.
[11:24] <hunger_> infinity:  ?
[11:25] <hunger_> infinity: You support upgrade from one version to the next only...
[11:25] <hunger_> infinity: So transitional debs for hoary->breezy can get removed after breezy is out, can't they?
[11:26] <hunger_> apt-cache search transition lists 127 packages...
[11:27] <infinity> hunger_: As a courtesy, we also try (though don't promise) to allow sidegrades from the current debian stable to our current release.  Ish.
[11:28] <infinity> hunger_: That said, xlibs was split in sarge as well, so it really should not be depended on.
[11:28] <hunger_> infinity: Oh! hadn't noticed that yet:-)
[11:29] <Tm_T> ;)
[11:29] <lite> hm
[11:29] <lite> I'd like to report ubuntu bugs (breezy/dapper)
[11:30] <Simira> then you use Malone in launchpad.ubuntu.com
[11:30] <dholbach> lite: http://launchpad.net/malone
[11:30] <lite> where to do it or can I do it here?
[11:30] <lite> ok
[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: do you know the difference between pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils? do we need both? /etc/init.d/pcmcia vomits in current default install ("linux >= 2.6.13 requires pcmciautils instead of pcmcia-cs")
[11:31] <lite> oh
[11:31] <lite> my bug is already reported :)
[11:32] <lite> (partially)
[11:32] <dholbach> lite: It's nice of you, you checked beforehand.
[11:33] <Tm_T> lite is good kid ;)
[11:33] <Tm_T> use him wise
[11:36] <lite> hm. perhaps I cannot use the search very well, or it doesn't work :o
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: btw, the proxy dialog still appears for netless installs
[12:02] <pitti> doko: I'll fix the rpm ftbfs now
[12:03] <doko> pitti: thanks, selinux related?
[12:03] <pitti> doko: probably, yes, but it failed much earlier on my machine because libneon24 doesn't exist any more
[12:03] <pitti> (so I build against 25 now)
[12:07] <doko> yes, that was a recent change as well
[12:08] <Diziet> What does the `Uploaders' field do in source packages in Ubuntu, if anything ?
[12:11] <pitti> elmo, Kamion: can you please NEW sudo so that we can test the changes asap? TIA
[12:11] <\sh> Diziet: the original meaning was "co-maintainer", but for ubuntu we don't use maintainer or uploader as far as I know...correct me when I'm wrong
[12:11] <ogra> Diziet, its only inherited from debian, we do use it (i hope)#
[12:12] <dholbach> ogra: use it? how?
[12:12] <ogra> s/do/dont
[12:12] <ogra> typo, sorry
[12:17] <infinity> pitti: Oh, yeah.  I was about to rebuild all of neon's rdeps.  If you've got rpm covered, cool.
[12:17] <pitti> well, as soon as I find out about that sepol linking FTBFS
[12:18] <Diziet> Right, good, that was what I hoped the answer was.
[12:18] <Diziet> Thanks.
[12:19] <pitti> oh, yay, seems to work
[12:28] <infinity> pitti: Even if not unpatching?
[12:28] <pitti> infinity: dpkg-source -x, debuild -S, nothing else
[12:28] <infinity> Ick.
[12:28] <pitti> infinity: it's integrated into the clean rule
[12:28] <pitti> instead of build
[12:29] <pitti> which makes reading debdiffs a nightmare
[12:29] <infinity> Well, if configure.in are patched, it does need to be in clean, but only iff unpatching.
[12:29] <infinity> (PHP used to do this unconditionally too, when someone (vorlon, dilinger?) added the patch system, I fixed it to only do it when it had to do an unpatch first)
[12:30] <infinity> Still ugly, and I should probably move to a tarball-in-tarball scheme, so clean can just be "rm -rf build-tree", but I'm lazy.
[12:30] <infinity> Well, and unconvinced that the current state of things is a real problem.
[12:42] <pitti> doko: rpm fixed
[12:43] <Kamion> tepsipakki: yes?
[12:43] <Kamion> pitti: we still need pcmcia-cs because not all the stuff it contains has been moved somewhere where pcmciautils can get at it yet
[12:43] <Kamion> chiefly CIS firmware for weirdo cards
[12:43] <pitti> Kamion: ok, so shall I just drop the check from /etc/init.d/pcmcia?
[12:43] <Kamion> pitti: NOOOO
[12:43] <pitti> Kamion: it aborts on our kernels
[12:44] <Kamion> leave it alone, it's harmless
[12:44] <pitti> well, it broke the installation of linux-wlan-ng
[12:44] <Kamion> it's meant to fail
[12:44] <Kamion> ?
[12:44] <pitti> I now added an || true to cover that
[12:44] <mjg59> Kamion: It's not harmless when it exits 1, surely?
[12:44] <pitti> at least it should exit with 0 then
[12:44] <Kamion> mjg59: I didn't think anyone would be silly enough to call it from a maintainer script
[12:44] <pitti> Kamion: linux-wlan-ng is
[12:44] <pitti> Kamion: it adds a new script and wants to reload it
[12:44] <Kamion> stupid thing
[12:45] <mjg59> Kamion: Isn't it going to result in failure messages on boot?
[12:45] <pitti> Kamion: nevermind, the latest version should fix it
[12:45] <Kamion> I'll make it exit zero, but note that linux-wlan-ng probably doesn't work if it's relying on that sort of thing
[12:45] <Kamion> mjg59: no, see the code
[12:45] <pitti> Kamion: btw, I'll talk with scott about fixing that 'network failure after unclean reboot' bug, but I'd like to know whether moving checkroot around interferes with his init modifications
[12:46] <Kamion> mjg59: during the boot process, it suppresses the message and exits zero
[12:46] <mjg59> Kamion: wlan-ng's package installs files that override pcmcia-cs (pcmcia_cs->prism2_cs), so it restarts it
[12:46] <Kamion> mjg59: well that won't work with pcmciautils ...
[12:46] <mjg59> It won't work in Ubuntu anyway, because we don't ship that module
[12:52] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK>  
[12:52] -p9goBou_LLlyTHuK:#ubuntu-devel- 
[12:52] -p9goBou_LLlyTHuK:#ubuntu-devel- 
[12:52] -p9goBou_LLlyTHuK:#ubuntu-devel- 
[12:53] -p9goBou_LLlyTHuK:#ubuntu-devel- vi huli spite
[12:53] -p9goBou_LLlyTHuK:#ubuntu-devel- boti
[12:53] <tepsipakki> kamion: I'm about to make a patch for apt-setup to support a local repository.. it will of course touch some other places as choose-mirror et al. should I post it directly to debian-boot or make a bug on malone?
[12:53] <pitti> can an op please deal with this?
[12:53] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> che
[12:53] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> ?
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> do u spik russian?
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> Oo
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> russians r cool
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> :D
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> USSR forever B)
[12:54] <ogra> mjg59, do we want g-p-m 0.3.4 ? 
[12:54] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[12:55] <p9goBou_LLlyTHuK> noobz
[12:55] <Tm_T> ogra: nice waether, isn't it
[12:55] <Tm_T> weather even
[12:56] <ogra> Tm_T, nah, some kind of snowy rain is falling outside, its wet and cold here
[12:56] <chmj> ^5 jdub 
[12:56] <pitti> ogra: btw, hal | 0.5.6-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages :)
[12:56] <ogra> pitti, yes, i checked before asking ;)
[12:57] <pitti> ogra: but NB that it still doesn't run as root; sjoerd is working on a solution, though
[12:57] <mjg59> ogra: Yes
[12:57] <ogra> pitti, evil you ... :)
[12:57] <Tm_T> ogra: heh, -25'C and brrright and windy, just good
[12:57] <ogra> mjg59, okis
[12:58] <infinity> pitti: Dude.  Why didn't you just fix libselinux1-dev to depend on libsepol1-dev instead of libsepol1?  Clearly, it's at fault.
[12:59] <pitti> hm, true
[01:00] <infinity> Don't forget to "unfix" rpm afterward. :)
[01:00] <pitti> infinity: oh, the debian/rules change is still necessary
[01:00] <infinity> (You can do both uploads together, if you don't want to wait, I can give-back RPM to get it to build after selinux is fixed)
[01:00] <lite> any kernel gurus? I'm having a problem with agp driver.
[01:01] <pitti> infinity: is the redundant b-dep so important that it justifies another uplaod?
[01:01] <infinity> pitti: No, not really.  And if you have to explicitely -lsepol (do you really?), then you are justified in making the build-dep explicit.
[01:01] <infinity> pitti: Oh, wait.  lsb-rpm is static, isn't it?
[01:01] <pitti> infinity: yes, I have; lsb-rpm is manually linked together in debian/rules
[01:02] <Kamion> tepsipakki: debian-boot please, I'd like to keep apt-setup as unforked as possible
[01:02] <pitti> infinity: yes, it's totally crazy and needs the .a file
[01:02] <Kamion> tepsipakki: I don't see why it should need to touch choose-mirror
[01:02] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok
[01:02] <pitti> infinity: so the b-dep is not that wrong IMHO
[01:02] <tepsipakki> kamion: templates..
[01:02] <infinity> pitti: Either way, libselinux1-dev's deps are wrong, since it clearly needs the other.
[01:02] <Kinnison> lite: This isn't a support channel really, I suggest you find a kernel channel to ask on
[01:02] <pitti> infinity: sure, I just uploaded a fixed version
[01:02] <Kamion> tepsipakki: I was coincidentally just thinking about this a moment ago; surely preseeding a string containing custom sources.list lines would be good enough
[01:02] <Kamion> tepsipakki: templates> huh?
[01:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: it would yes
[01:03] <lite> Kinnison, yep, sorry.
[01:03] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, the build-dep isn't wrong if you link it manually (it's a nice reminder that one leads to the other), but eww.  :)
[01:03] <Kamion> tepsipakki: ok, no reason for that to need to touch choose-mirror's templates then
[01:03] <Diziet> WTF!  patch says hunks 1,2 and 7 succeeded, 4,5,6 failed, and 3 out of 7 failed.  What about hunk 3 ???
[01:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: that's what I thought of at first
[01:03] <Kamion> tepsipakki: just need an apt-setup generator that looks at your preseeded question then
[01:04] <Kinnison> lite: sorry :-)
[01:04] <Kamion> they're pretty straightforward to write
[01:04] <tepsipakki> kamion: yes, that's what I've done
[01:04] <Kamion> ok, sounds good
[01:04] <Diziet> Ah, it doesn't list them if the offset is 0.
[01:04] <infinity> Diziet: Hunk 3 is a figment of your imagination.
[01:05] <Diziet> If I'm going to be imagining hunks they won't be of patches.

[01:05] <tseng> he really set himself up on that one
[01:07] <pitti> ogra: did you happen to fiddle with dhcp3-client? my dhclient.conf just contains a 'NetcfgDHCLient' line with an invalid syntax
[01:07] <pitti> ogra: (clean flight-3 install)
[01:07] <pitti> ogra: and i have a .dpkg-orig that looks fine
[01:07] <ogra> pitti, not particulary with the client, but i can fix it, yes :)
[01:07] <Kamion> pitti: that's netcfg, what's wrong with the syntax?
[01:07] <pitti> ogra: any idea which package modifies that?
[01:08] <pitti> Kamion: at least there shuold be a semicolon
[01:08] <Kamion> it is a netcfg bug though; that shouldn't be copied to the installed system
[01:08] <pitti> hm, there is
[01:08] <Kamion> I'll see if I can fix that
[01:08] <pitti> ok, so the intention is to not change the conffile? ok
[01:08] <ogra> /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf line 1: no option named dhcp-class-identifier
[01:08] <ogra> send dhcp-class-identifier "NetcfgDHClient"
[01:08] <ogra>      ^
[01:08] <ogra> /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf line 1: semicolon expected.
[01:09] <ivoks> ogra: ah, that happens all the time :)
[01:09] <Kamion> yeah, the problem there is that the installer uses a different version of dhclient to the installed system for size reasons, and the name of that option changed between dhcp 2 and 3
[01:09] <ogra> ivoks, add an semicolon or remove the line 
[01:09] <Kamion> yet another reason it shouldn't be copied
[01:09] <Kamion> just remove the line, future versions of the installer won't put it there
[01:09] <ivoks> ogra: semicolon :)
[01:10] <Kamion> and it's wrong to have it on your system
[01:10] <ogra> ivoks, rather what Kamion said ;)
[01:10] <ivoks> ogra: my point was that 'semicolon' mistake is very often in dhcpd/dhclient
[01:10] <ogra> ivoks, did you file bugs about them ? 
[01:11] <ivoks> ogra: ok, /me had just 4 hours of sleep, so maybe doesn't talk so clear and people around me don't understand me :)
[01:11] <infinity> pitti: Yay.  I though I owned all the paper bags in Ubuntu.
[01:11] <pitti> *cough*
[01:11] <ogra> lol
[01:11] <pitti> 'let's just fix this quickly'
[01:12] <ogra> hrm .... latest xscreensaver is evil to me ...
[01:13] <infinity> pitti: Don't look too closely at the archives for dapper-changes.  You'll see a LOT of "3 uploads of the same package in one dinstall run" from me.
[01:13] <infinity> pitti: Last week was a bad brain week. ;)
[01:15] <ivoks> pitti: that's AI :)
[01:15] <ogra> jdub, tango looks pretty complete already, why not switch to it for dapper ? 
[01:16] <jdub> ogra: might be doing so
[01:16] <ogra> cool
[01:16] <slomo_> ogra: look at evolution for a reason not to switch ;) the toolbar buttons are partially old-gnome style, partially tango style
[01:17] <ogra> slomo_, for me there are 2 icons from the old style 
[01:17] <ogra> thats easy to fix
[01:17] <ogra> its just that we are 2 days before UVF so a decision should happen soon ;)
[01:18] <slomo_> ogra: i count 7 in the toolbar, and all in the dropdown menu which opens when you click on new
[01:19] <ogra> slomo_, in my pulldown there are 2 or three old ones, but i couldnt even decide which ones come from hicolor and which come from tango ...
[01:20] <slomo_> ogra: weird... which tango version?
[01:20] <ogra> recent
[01:20] <slomo_> 0.6.5?
[01:21] <ogra> 0.6.5-0ubuntu1
[01:27] <dholbach> Diziet: Hello. I just found that gnome-panel has a 'static' libnspr4 Depends, because the shlibs of firefox seemed to be broken. Can you confirm that fixed?
[01:31] <Diziet> Err, no, I can't confirm it fixed.  Err, do you mean the shlibs of the old libnspr-dev were broken or of the firefox-made one ?
[01:32] <dholbach> Diziet: The firefox-made one.
[01:32] <pitti> sjoerd: I'm currently packaging gnome-mount for universe (it doesn't do anything interesting yet, so we won't ship it for now); shall I upload it to Debian experimental, too?
[01:32] <Diziet> Do you know what was wrong with it ?  I wasn't aware of a problem but it's quite plausible.
[01:33] <dholbach> Diziet: I suppose the shlibs didn't get "picked up" automatically.
[01:34] <ogra> Diziet, i also noted that in my ppc testinstall yesterday the firefox homapage was mozilla.org ... intrestingly that didnt happen in i386 or amd64 installs
[01:34] <dholbach> Diziet: Oh well, I have to build it anyway, I'll just try and report back.
[01:35] <sjoerd> pitti: it's patched to call pmount or ?
[01:35] <Diziet> OK.  I'm in the middle of a moderate-sized merge.  Debian have changed their package name, which is nice in the long run but means quite a bit of untangling now.
[01:35] <pitti> sjoerd: I will do so, yes
[01:36] <pitti> sjoerd: at least for dapper the priv separation code in hal is too late for my taste
[01:37] <jdub> Znarl: YAY!
[01:37] <jdub> HOORAY FOR NEW PLANET!
[01:37] <jdub> http://planet.ubuntu.com/
[01:37] <jdub> HOORAY!
[01:37] <sjoerd> pitti: dunno when dapper is scheduled ? two months ?
[01:37] <pitti> sjoerd: uvf is tomorrow, feature freeze in one or two weeks
[01:37] <pitti> sjoerd: release is end of April, or so
[01:37] <Kamion> sjoerd: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[01:37] <dholbach> And it has Colin Watson!
[01:38] <jdub> 1000% less suckage!
[01:38] <Treenaks> jdub: is it planet 1.0-patch9?
[01:38] <dholbach> and Zak B. Elep
[01:39] <jdub> Treenaks: yes
[01:39] <Treenaks> jdub: and did you see feedparser-4.0 has been released? :)
[01:40] <jdub> Treenaks: 4.1 even :-) there are some minor incompatibilities i need to sort out (looked at it the other day)
[01:40] <Treenaks> jdub: great :)
[01:40] <crimsun> and feedparser actually builds! yay for missing b-ds.
[01:40] <jdub> whoa, it's packaged?
[01:40] <jdub> oh, no, the ruby one
[01:40] <crimsun> ah.
[01:41] <jdub> none of that crap in planet!
[01:41] <jdub> ;-)
[01:41] <dexem> dapper loads ndiswrapper and bcm43xx for my bcm4318 wifi card... the problem is that both drivers loaded, conflicts. It's intended to change the default to bcm43xx? or... does it work correctly?
[01:41] <Treenaks> dexem: in a lot of cases, it appears to work, yes
[01:42] <dexem> Treenaks: well, I have a Dell, but it seems to have that wifi card... and, maybe it's my fault, but bcm43xx doesn't work correctly
[01:45] <sjoerd> pitti: i ran into some small problems with the patch yesterday, but it should be finished in a few hours now
[01:45] <sjoerd> pitti: do you know how dapper will do the pwrmgmt callouts ?
[01:47] <pitti> sjoerd: with your patch, I suppose/hope :)
[01:47] <sjoerd> pitti: :)
[01:48] <sjoerd> pitti: well then the discussion start what policy we should have for the power callouts and stuff, but gettng the patch finished is the first step :)
[01:49] <pitti> sjoerd: we want to allow it for users which have an associated X session
[01:49] <pitti> sjoerd: mjg59 wrote a pam module for this (libpam-foreground)
[01:49] <sjoerd> is that already available ?
[01:49] <sjoerd> i knew he was working on it, but that was all.
[01:49] <Nafallo> infinity: been there, done that :-/.
[01:49] <pitti> sjoerd: it's not as generic as pam_console, but it avoids pam_console's weirdness
[01:50] <sjoerd> :)
[01:50] <pitti> sjoerd: it's in universe, and it still has a couple of bugs
[01:50] <sjoerd> k
[01:50] <pitti> sjoerd: that's why I didn't accept it for promotion yet
[01:50] <pitti> mjg59: btw, what's the status of this? will you upload a new version soon so that we can test this in main and use it?
[01:50] <sjoerd> would be great to have that in debian too 
[01:55] <sjoerd> pitti: for debian i was thinking of either you belong to some group or are behind the machine
[01:56] <sjoerd> but we can't express ``behind the machine'' yet (pam-foreground could solve that)
[01:56] <sjoerd> and for a goup i guess we should discuss with the http://powermgmt.alioth.debian.org/ guys
[01:56] <pitti> sjoerd: yes, we don't have a special group for that yet either
[02:03] <sivang> Kinnison: you're not using autoconf for Lua as it seems, right?
[02:03] <Mithrandir> doko: any chance you could get ooo2 to be installable again?
[02:03] <Kinnison> sivang: No, Lua is not autoconfed
[02:04] <Kinnison> sivang: for portability reasons
[02:04] <doko> Mithrandir: what is uninstallable?
[02:04] <sivang> Kinnison: very cool
[02:04] <Kinnison> sivang: but if you're playing with libgfshare then yes, it is autoconfed
[02:04] <pitti> heh, wasn't portability the primary idea of autoconf?
[02:04] <sivang> pitti: I was going to ask that exactly! :-D
[02:05] <Mithrandir> doko: ooo2-*.  Or has it been renamed to ooo now?
[02:05] <jk_work> it's portable among unices,
[02:05] <jk_work> so in addition to the 5-10% of machines which run Linux,
[02:05] <jk_work> it gains you an additional .5 - 1&
[02:05] <jk_work> it gains you an additional .5 - 1%
[02:06] <doko> Mithrandir: no, not yet
[02:07] <ogra> hmm, didnt we want to keep xchat in main ? 
[02:07] <doko> Mithrandir: and AFAIK the amd64 experimental packages need a fixed firefox-dev
[02:07] <doko> Diziet: ^^^
[02:08] <seb128> desrt: just curious, who asked you to comment on the dialog? :)
[02:09] <Mithrandir> doko: ooo2-amd64 is installable just fine.
[02:10] <ogra> pitti, sure, and you are not allowed to use the drive unless *you own all the files on it* ;P
[02:11] <pitti> sjoerd, seb128: hmm, if I patch gnome-mount to use pmount, then nothing from the original code will be left
[02:11] <Mithrandir> doko: ooo2-evolution and ooo2-gnome seems to be gone, at least?
[02:11] <pitti> sjoerd, seb128: at this point there is just *nothing* in gnome-mount in addition to calling hal's mount/unmount/eject methods, which we won't use, soo
[02:12] <Mithrandir> doko: and ooo2-core needs a rebuild for new libneon
[02:12] <sjoerd> pitti: doesn't it have a fancy ui yet ?
[02:12] <seb128> pitti: don't bother so
[02:12] <pitti> sjoerd: well, g-m-properties is a trivial dialog with some labels 'drive_name_goes_here' and a 'close' buttonn
[02:13] <pitti> seb128: ack, it would be easier to read gconf stuff from pmount-hal, or add a pmount-gconf or whatever
[02:13] <pitti> s/from/in/
[02:14] <sjoerd> right, leave it for now
[02:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: did you start the libneon rdeps rebuild or did somebody else do that?
[02:14] <infinity> Mithrandir: Oh neat, I skimmed right over Ooo2 in my rdeps listing for neon.
[02:14] <infinity> Mithrandir: So much for "hey, I can rebuild it all in 5 minutes"
[02:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: I didn't, I only changed rpm because I fixed the FTBFS anyway
[02:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, it seems like infinity has confessed. :-P
[02:14] <Mithrandir> infinity: care to rebuild it?
[02:14] <pitti> I can help you with that, if you want
[02:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: making infinity confess?  Yeah, I'm sure you can. ;-P
[02:16] <pitti> infinity, Mithrandir: I take bazaar and tla, fine for you?
[02:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: please do.
[02:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: I just want -desktop to be installable, really.
[02:17] <infinity> pitti: Go nuts.
[02:17] <infinity> pitti: I needed the new neon for the new SVN upstream.
[02:17] <pitti> yep, I wanted to leave svn to you :)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> I wonder where ooo2-{evolution,gnome} is, though.
[02:26] <Kamion> pitti: netcfg bogosity fixed
[02:26] <pitti> yay, thanks
[02:28] <infinity> Mithrandir: It's too late for me to fix Ooo2 right now.  I really need to catch some Zs.  If you want to push a rebuild, go nuts.  If it fails, we'll have to deal with it in the morning.
[02:28] <Mithrandir> infinity: go to bed, then.
[02:29] <Mithrandir> infinity: I might poke it, or get doko to do so
[02:29] <doko_> Mithrandir: starting a OOo test build
[02:29] <infinity> Mithrandir: If it's just the neon thing that broke it, a pure rebuild (with fixed build-deps) should make it happy...
[02:30] <infinity> doko_: Any chance of a db4.3 bump while you're doing the neon bump, or is the db bump more problematic?
[02:30] <Mithrandir> doko_: thanks.
[02:30] <Mithrandir> infinity: I think it is.
[02:30] <infinity> doko_: (If you need specific fixed to db4.3, let me know)
[02:33] <doko_> infinity: yes, it's problematic ... still on my todo
[02:51] <doko_> Kamion: about 25509, does usplash has support now for appending to a line?
[02:52] <Kamion> doko_: I wasn't aware that that was blocking it
[02:52] <Kamion> please add that information to the bug
[02:52] <Kamion> I reassigned to lsb because that's what's responsible for the implementation of log_progress_msg
[03:00] <zul> Kamion: ping
[03:10] <lucas> hi
[03:11] <lucas> to help solve the communication problems towards Debian, I worked on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDemystification
[03:11] <mdke> nice work jdub
[03:13] <lucas> it was already reviewed by some MOTUs. do you have some comments ?
[03:16] <mvo> lucas: """ Ubuntu's way of ''contributing to Debian'' really sucks.": """ <- might be a bit strong worded. for many packages in main we have a very good working relation ship with the debian people or are ourself heavlily involved in the upstream development
[03:16] <lucas> ok, can you suggest something ?
[03:17] <lucas> I'm basically trying to match the debian's opinion
[03:17] <ogra> lucas, why ? 
[03:17] <lucas> ogra: I mean in the titles
[03:17] <ogra> lucas, we are ubuntu... match the ubuntu opinion ;)
[03:18] <lucas> the goal is to be read by DDs here
[03:18] <mvo> lucas: right, I'm not very good at this (no native speaker), but I would like to have something more positive in here because (unlike some ppl like to believe) we do contribute a lot back
[03:18] <jdub> lucas: not sure that requires bad messaging in the titles, though
[03:18] <lucas> ok
[03:18] <lucas> """Ubuntu's way of ''contributing to Debian'' is insufficient for me""" ?
[03:19] <lucas> (not a native neither)
[03:19] <mvo> lucas: so, something along the lines "while we do contribute a lot and have a good working relation with many debian developers, we try hard to get better " (in the body maybe)
[03:20] <jdub> lucas: "How does Ubuntu work with Debian?"
[03:21] <lucas> that's too general I think. this paragraph is really about giving back
[03:21] <lucas> "How much does Ubuntu give back to Debian ?"
[03:21] <lucas> ?
[03:23] <Treenaks> lucas:  ...,..
[03:23] <Treenaks> ?
[03:24] <lucas> ok, and what about "How does Ubuntu give back to Debian ?" then ?
[03:28] <ogra> lucas, i vote for jdub's sentence ...
[03:31] <pappan> https://launchpad.net/projects/fatalnetwork click http://www.fatalnetwork.com shown in square brackets...lol
[03:31] <lucas> "How does Ubuntu work with Debian?" could apply to a lot more things than just "giving back to Debian". For example,  the paragraph before this one could fit under this title as well
[03:33] <pitti> wow, that's the first of my patches that was accepted by cups upstream
[03:33] <ogra> pitti, what was it ? a string change ? 
[03:33] <pitti> ogra: heh, no, I fixed authentication for non-printer admins
[03:34] <pitti> ogra: i. e. before the current ubuntu version any user could kill print jobs of other users
[03:34] <ogra> ah, yes ... cool :)
[03:34] <tepsipakki> pitti: ah, the convenience ;)
[03:35] <pappan> pitti: that seems a sec hole ??
[03:35] <ogra> gah, my foot is getting blisters froim kicking xscreensaver ... evil thing 
[03:35] <pitti> pappan: well, more of an inconvenience
[03:36] <pitti> ogra: btw, can I kick g-screensaver once, too? it still locks the screen after the screen saver timeout. *pretty please make it not to*
[03:36] <ogra> pitti, dholbach told me twice he had changed that setting 
[03:36] <ogra> i'll look into it
[03:37] <ogra> note that the default wont override user changes once you changed the key
[03:37] <dholbach> Yes, I changed the default.
[03:37] <ogra> pitti, dholbach told me three times he had changed that setting 
[03:37] <ogra> ;)
[03:38] <pitti> dholbach: in g-s-preferences, 'lock screen when screensaver is active' is enabled and greyed out
[03:38] <ogra> must be our user setting :)
[03:38] <sladen> lucas: ''Ubuntu is constantly dependant on Debian.  One of the ways Ubuntu supports this is by employing Debian Developers, as of January 2006, Canonical employs 20 DD's (more than any other organisation) ensuring that changes go directly back to Debian. ...''
[03:38] <ogra> sladen++
[03:38] <ogra> +++
[03:38] <ogra> +
[03:38] <lucas> sladen: we all know it is supposed to be the case, but regarding universe, it is far from being the case
[03:39] <lucas> if it was, the threads on debian-devel would be much shorter
[03:40] <sladen> lucas: actually doing it is harder than rolling out the bullshit-o-meter, but saying it is a good start;  I like the example of various DD's joining MOTU.  Are there any people apart from Daf who've finished NM /because/ of Ubuntu?
[03:41] <sladen> lucas: or focus of any MOTU people that have been pursuaded to start NM in an attempt to get patching flowing back even faster
[03:42] <lucas> ok, I'll try to add something about people being both active inside debian and ubuntu
[03:42] <lucas> not specifically targetting canonical employees or the MOTU/NM case
[03:43] <ogra> sbalneav, scottie !!
[03:43] <sbalneav> Hey there ogra!
[03:43] <ogra> sbalneav, we have UVF in two days, any changes in ltspfs/ltspfsd that i should package before ? 
[03:44] <sbalneav> oh, yeah, just made some bug fixes the other day.  Let me commit my changes.
[03:44] <ogra> even if we dont support local devices by default it would be neat to have the pieces you need in shape ...
[03:44] <ogra> cool, i'll package it tonight then ...
[03:44] <sbalneav> Did localdev fall by the wayside for this time?
[03:44] <ogra> yup
[03:44] <ogra> we want it specced a bit better and implement it in dapper+1 
[03:45] <sbalneav> Thats cool.  It's a complicated topic, and needs lots of thought.
[03:45] <ogra> yup
[03:45] <sbalneav> It'll be better for dapper+1
[03:45] <ogra> i think we'll have some more different impelmentations by dapper+1 to look at and pick the best from them ...
[03:46] <sbalneav> excellent.
[03:46] <ogra> seeing drawbacks and problems others had
[03:47] <janimo> Kamion, is it possible the install CD integrity check comes out ok but there are still errors during install?
[03:47] <janimo> I got udev/ubuntu-minimal/initramfs related errors about 75 % in the base install
[03:48] <janimo> by integrity check I mean what's in the boot menu
[03:49] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, changes committed.  I've never done much with the actual debian/rules stuff, but I'm keen to learn.  When you package it, let me know, and I'll add the debian/* stuff into cvs.  I'd like to see it in etch as well. (Hope that's not an unmentionable word around here :) )
[03:50] <ogra> sbalneav, rather keep the source and the packaging distinct ...
[03:50] <sbalneav> ok, np.
[03:50] <ogra> (indeed you *can* add the debain dir, but its not appreciated by debian)
[03:50] <sbalneav> ah, ok.
[03:51] <lucas> sladen: can you re-review UbuntuDemystification ?
[03:51] <Kamion> janimo: bugs are always possible
[03:51] <doko> Mithrandir: OOo2 FTBFS due to the new neon :-/
[03:52] <Kamion> janimo: and yes, it's also possible that your CD or the drive is on the edge of readability so that it sometimes succeeds and sometimes fails
[03:52] <Mithrandir> doko: ugh. :-(
[03:52] <doko> /home/doko/ooo/2.0/openoffice.org2-2.0.1/ooo-build/build/ooa680-m1/ucb/source/ucp/webdav/NeonSession.hxx:269: error: 'ne_header_handler' has not been declared
[03:52] <doko> dmake:  Error code 1, while making '../../../unxlngi6.pro/slo/DAVSessionFactory.obj'
[03:53] <Mithrandir> doko: any chance you could spend time fixing it?
[03:54] <doko> not today, maybe it's better to re-upload the neon source as neon24.
[03:55] <Mithrandir> either way works for me, but I'd like to see -desktop being installable
[03:55] <martink> Mithrandir, doko: there's an upstream bug for this (with the last comment: go fix it yourself)
[03:57] <doko> martink: yeah, waiting is always a way ;)
[04:04] <janimo> Kamion is .deb integrity checking expensive? Would it be hard to fall back on downloading a package just as it;s done with updates if a .deb turns out to be corrupt on the CD?
[04:07] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[04:07] <Kamion> the installer doesn't do any of this stuff by hand, it just calls apt
[04:07] <Kamion> any clever fallback algorithms would have to be implemented in apt
[04:21] <mvo> janimo, Kamion: I think this might actually work already if apt has a fallback source in it's sources.list
[04:23] <Kamion> it does for the main bulk of the installation, but not for the base system
[04:23] <Kamion> hard to change that at the moment since apt-setup currently requires the base system to be installed in order to work
[04:24] <mvo> Kamion: so the problem is that there is no fallback source in sources.list?
[04:25] <Kamion> right ...
[04:26] <zul> Kamion jbailey: there is a new grub to be merged..
[04:26] <Kamion> zul: I was going to get to all my merges this week. Are the changes at all complicated?
[04:26] <Kamion> janimo: er, vga16fb is *supposed* to be 640x400 now
[04:27] <janimo> Kamion, so it does not stretch on laptops with other resolutions?
[04:27] <zul> no..i did a merge and was running it for a couple of days before i re-intalled my laptop
[04:27] <janimo> the problem is there's a black band at the bottom
[04:27] <janimo> 1/5 of the csreen
[04:27] <janimo> on another laptop it's ok
[04:27] <mjg59> janimo: What kernel are you running?
[04:27] <janimo> flight 3 install problem
[04:28] <mjg59> Right
[04:28] <janimo> native res is 800x600
[04:28] <mjg59> A black band is preferable to part of it vanishing off the bottom of the screen on other machines
[04:28] <janimo> the console message is setting up vga16fb 80x25
[04:28] <mjg59> Yes, that should be correct
[04:28] <Kamion> janimo: deliberate, use the gfxboot menu if you want something different
[04:28] <janimo> so there's a set of resolutions which will have the black band?
[04:29] <mjg59> janimo: No...
[04:29] <janimo> ah, ok then
[04:29] <Kamion> as mjg59 said, 640x480 just broke on many other systems
[04:29] <mjg59> Some machines may not scale 640x400 to full screen (since it's not a 4:3 resolution)
[04:29] <janimo> this is no longer usplash, the installer used to work just fine on this laptop
[04:29] <janimo> mjg59, so this is d-i not usplash
[04:29] <mjg59> janimo: Yes. They use the same framebuffer
[04:30] <janimo> ok then
[04:30] <janimo> so the res is hardcoded in the kernel I remember now
[04:31] <janimo> and vesa I guess is breaks even more machines
[04:31] <mjg59> vesa tends to break suspend/resume
[04:31] <mjg59> It's possible that it doesn't on dapper now, but...
[04:31] <janimo> bios problems not vesafb?
[04:32] <mjg59> No, the assumption that the video hardware works immediately on resume
[04:39] <BenC> Kamion, Keybuk: I found the cause of the oopses in unionfs
[04:39] <BenC> will be fixed in -13.18 (wish it was in for flight3)
[04:51] <mgalvin> Kamoin: when I tried to install flight 3 with xfs it tried to use lilo and the install failed, is this know or shall I just open a bug (other fs's work fine)
[04:52] <mgalvin> s/know/known/
[04:59] <Kamion> BenC: hooray, thanks
[04:59] <Kamion> mgalvin: er, maybe ... sure, open a bug, I can always dup it
[05:00] <mgalvin> k, thnx
[05:01] <BenC> Kamion: I didn't really "fix" anything, but the oopses were coming from the debug code, so I just disabled debug
[05:01] <BenC> probably run a lot faster with that turned off anyway
[05:03] <rod> im trying out xchat-gnome for the first time now
[05:04] <rod> after this sentence i click this window away; could you say my name in here so ill see if i get notificated? THanks
[05:06] <pitti> rod: ping
[05:07] <rod> thanks pitti :)
[05:09] <Kamion> BenC: !
[05:09] <Kamion> BenC: I was seeing real breakage as well as the oopses ...
[05:09] <Kamion> unless that was actually *caused* by the oopses, I guess
[05:19] <BenC> probably collateral damage
[05:20] <Kamion> ok
[05:20] <Kamion> let's hope so ...
[05:20] <BenC> anyone know if there is a iTunes share client for linux?
[05:21] <tseng> BenC: rhythmbox supports it badly
[05:21] <tseng> BenC: banshee cvs is pretty decent
[05:21] <SEJeff> BenC, Try banshee
[05:21] <BenC> ok, thanks
[05:21] <ogra> and iTunes is natively supported by crossover
[05:21] <SEJeff> BenC, you are talking about DAPP support, right?
[05:21] <slomo_> BenC: you'll get a banshee supporting it tomorrow probably ;)
[05:21] <tseng> build from cvs and enable the MusicSharing plugin
[05:21] <tseng> ogra: eww?
[05:21] <BenC> slomo_: from apt-get?
[05:22] <ogra> tseng, did they drop it ?
[05:22] <tseng> ogra: i said eww
[05:22] <slomo_> BenC: yes... if you're too lazy to build from cvs :)
[05:22] <tseng> ogra: emulation is pretty lame when you have a native gnome app
[05:22] <BenC> slomo_: well, if there's a source package I can download now that would be better :)
[05:22] <slomo_> our rhythmbox doesn't support it currently afaik because the daap support doesn't work properly with gst 0.10
[05:22] <BenC> build the .deb locally
[05:23] <ogra> tseng, sure, just wanted to point out all options ...
[05:23] <slomo_> BenC: i haven't done one for cvs ;P i wanted to wait for the release this night
[05:23] <ogra> i didnt mean i support it :)
[05:23] <tseng> ok :)
[05:23] <BenC> funny thing is that I have daap running on an ubuntu box :)
[05:23] <BenC> the server that is
[05:32] <BenC> crap, I can't even get the build-deps to install
[05:33] <slomo_> BenC: why? what is missing/broken? ;)
[05:34] <BenC> elmo: Build-Depends dependency for banshee cannot be satisfied because the package libnjb-cil cannot be found
[05:34] <BenC> s/elmo/E/
[05:34] <BenC> this is on powerpc
[05:35] <slomo_> mono is broken on ppc anyway atm :( sorry
[05:35] <slomo_> but you could build everything yourself unless you have a SMP ppc
[05:35] <BenC> UP
[05:36] <BenC> just build mono, that it?
[05:36] <Kamion> pitti: I'm just going to promote the split-out bits of sysutils; I don't think they need inclusion reports
[05:36] <slomo_> BenC: fine then... you need mono, gtk-sharp2 and njb-sharp... that's it iirc
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: sure, go ahead
[05:37] <Kamion> (memtester, procinfo, tofrodos)
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: if you do archive stuff anyway, could you please NEW sudo?
[05:37] <Kamion> pitti: ok, will do once cron.daily has finished
[05:37] <pitti> thank you
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: the new version has the new env var handling semantics
[05:38] <BenC> slomo_: this is an aweful lot to listen to music, but what the hell :)
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: I'm eager to get beaten up^W^Wqualified user feedback
[05:38] <Kamion> heh
[05:39] <slomo_> BenC: sorry, not my fault ;) the corresponding bugreport is http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=77028 if you want to take a look
[05:41] <janimo> join #fridge-devel
[05:41] <janimo> sorry :)
[05:41] <teroedni> hello
[05:41] <teroedni> hope someone knows this
[05:42] <teroedni> How do you run debug with network-admin?
[05:42] <teroedni> Thanks for help
[05:42] <pitti> sudo gdb /usr/bin/network-admin $(pidof network-admin)  ?
[05:42] <janimo> Kamion, I did not see other timezones such as europe but will look better as I am doing a new install shortly
[05:42] <pitti> teroedni: ^
[05:43] <janimo> related to the non-english timezones bug I filed
[05:44] <janimo> any fridge admin you happen to know by nick around here?
[05:44] <janimo> jdub maybe? ^
[05:45] <janimo> or even ubuntu-meeting moderator will do
[05:46] <Kamion> janimo: it only displays the timezones for the country you selected, on the assumption that if you were in a different timezone then you'd have selected an appropriate country
[05:46] <janimo> Kamion, oh silly me I mistook the country selection for keybord layout selection then
[05:46] <Kamion> pitti: done
[05:46] <janimo> english keyboard, US variant
[05:46] <Kamion> janimo: they're certainly separate questions
[05:47] <Kamion> language: English, country: United States, keyboard: American English
[05:47] <janimo> did it used to ask that in the same order before?
[05:48] <janimo> for some reason I think the first 3 questions I always got right so far
[05:48] <janimo> mechanically
[05:48] <doko> infinity:  python2.4 on the ia64 buildd: test_ioctl skipped -- Unable to open /dev/tty
[05:48] <doko> then the testsuite hangs
[05:49] <janimo> I think language/kb is related and so is country/timezone, but they may not be asked in this order for other reasons
[05:51] <Kamion> janimo: yes, same order since pre-warty
[05:52] <Kamion> janimo: although depending on the language you might not get the country question (er, which kind of exposes a design flaw in how the timezone question works, but that doesn't apply to your particular case ...)
[05:52] <janimo> right, today was the first time I got this wrong and I am sure I did not read these 3 first questins before. Oh well.
[05:53] <ogra> dholbach, ping
[05:55] <sjoerd> pitti: hal patch works, if you want i can put it online for you to eyeball... Before sending upstream, i want to eyeball it myself one more time, check some things and probably clean up the debugging a little
[05:55] <pitti> sjoerd: yes, I'd like to take a look at it after your fixes
[05:56] <pitti> sjoerd: and thanks, you rock :)
[05:56] <sjoerd> np
[06:00] <desrt> seb128; daniel and corey
[06:00] <seb128> desrt: hi, oki :)
[06:00] <dholbach> ogra pong
[06:00] <desrt> they put me up to it, i swear :)
[06:01] <ogra> dholbach, popsuqres is in xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver ... where do we disable it (i used to supress it in xscreensaver-data, but tht never really seemed clean to me)
[06:01] <ogra> *popsquares
[06:01] <dholbach> ogra: didn't you disable it in a huge list of screensavers?
[06:02] <dholbach> ogra: in gnome-screensaver?
[06:02] <desrt> seb128; why?
[06:02] <seb128> desrt: just curious as said
[06:02] <ogra> dholbach, i'm splitting the screensavers so we only have to ship the ones we really want
[06:02] <desrt> (if you get to ask, so do i) :)
[06:03] <desrt> seb128; what did you think of the suggestions?
[06:03] <dholbach> ogra: sounds cool
[06:03] <ogra> dholbach, doing this, i wanted to clean up the situation a bit ... do you think gnome-screensaver will survive if we disable it there ?
[06:03] <ogra> not sure if it needs at least one hack to work
[06:04] <dholbach> ogra: *sing o/~ it will surviiiiiiive ~\o*
[06:05] <seb128> desrt: I think I'll comment on it later, I've just quickly read it, flooded with GNOME 2.13.5 tarballs for 2 days now, but basically you point some bugs (most known) and the non-locking behaviour was because mpt/lmanul argued it is this way on macOS and jdub said it was worth a try
[06:05] <desrt> hmm.
[06:05] <ogra> dholbach, ok, cool, then i'll leave it in xscreensaver and disable it in gnome-screensaver, thanks
[06:05] <desrt> macos invariably comes up when talking about this logout/poweroff dialog :)
[06:06] <dholbach> ogra: sounds good.
[06:06] <ogra> :)
[06:06] <dholbach> ogra: *crossing fingers*
[06:06] <ogra> heh
[06:06] <jdub> desrt: mostly because they (and to a certain extent, windows xp) got it right
[06:06] <jdub> desrt: we're just mucking about in the shallow end of the pool while vuntz_ gets it right upstream (in gnome-panel)
[06:07] <desrt> jdub; we're a long way from macos.
[06:07] <jdub> not in gnome-panel
[06:07] <desrt> does it have a separate "power off" menu item?
[06:07] <jdub> yes
[06:07] <seb128> jdub: you think vuntz got it right?
[06:07] <desrt> ah.  there we go.
[06:07] <jdub> log out / turn off
[06:07] <desrt> perfect
[06:08] <jdub> seb128: still waiting to see it, but from the bug it looks very close if not right
[06:08] <seb128> desrt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92277
[06:08] <seb128> jdub: mark will not be happy I guess :/
[06:08] <seb128> that's going to conflict with what he asked
[06:08] <jdub> seb128: it doesn't conflict
[06:08] <ogra> i agree with jdub, but adopting the icon stuff from ours into vunz' suggestion would be nice
[06:09] <mjg59> Is there a screenshot of what it currently looks like?
[06:09] <jdub> mjg59: see the attachments on that bug
[06:09] <seb128> on the bug I just pointed
[06:09] <ogra> mjg59, in the bugreport
[06:09] <ogra> our current one looks way more shiny ... 
[06:10] <ogra> we should merge both attempts ...
[06:10] <desrt> wow.  i had no idea so much discussion was going on upstream
[06:10] <SEJeff> The logout dialog doesn't grab focus and raise to the front by default. This should be a bug
[06:10] <desrt> seb128; thanks for the bug
[06:10] <seb128> desrt: np
[06:11] <desrt> the icons have a huge problem
[06:11] <desrt> they're totally not-hig and you get non-obvious default behaviour as a result
[06:11] <desrt> in effect 'cancel' becomes the default action :/
[06:12] <azeem> are the icons taken from Tango?
[06:12] <ogra> nope
[06:12] <azeem> they look familiar, though
[06:12] <ogra> they are developed for the dialog
[06:12] <azeem> ok
[06:12] <jdub> ogra: where 'shiny' ~= 'totally odd'
[06:12] <desrt> they're very shiny
[06:12] <mjg59> Is the icture of our one still current?
[06:12] <mjg59> +p
[06:12] <mjg59> If so, can we lose the sleep and hibernate by default?
[06:12] <ogra> jdub, where shiny == i like it :)
[06:12] <desrt> mjg59; it's about right....
[06:13] <ogra> jdub, but vuntz' suggestion is more logical ..
[06:13] <desrt> mjg59; how do you propose to trigger these things?
[06:13] <ogra> desrt, gnome-power-manager
[06:13] <desrt> what UI for it, though?
[06:13] <seb128> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/logout_dialog/Capture.png
[06:13] <ogra> it has the items in its menu
[06:13] <mjg59> davidz: g-p-m, and optionally in the menu but only if they're enabled in g-p-m
[06:14] <janimo> Kamion, I think I can now rule out broken media, as install fails the same way from another CD, and both iso md5sum and intergrity check pass
[06:14] <desrt> ogra; where is the g-p-m menu?
[06:14] <ogra> desrt, on the g-p-m icon
[06:14] <janimo> it stops with udev --configure failed, with ubuntu-minimal and pcmciautils not installing
[06:14] <ogra> right click it
[06:14] <jdub> mjg59: we could hack it to only display those icons if g-p-m say so
[06:14] <desrt> on the tray?
[06:14] <ogra> yup
[06:14] <janimo> and saying in RED that things will be retried 5 times
[06:14] <mjg59> jdub: Yup
[06:14] <ogra> desrt, you can disable the icon 
[06:15] <jdub> my concern is the g-p-m ui is just decentralised splat-on-splat
[06:15] <mjg59> jdub: We still can't ship with suspend to RAM enabled by default
[06:17] <jdub> just gotta make sure manu knows what he needs to do to integrate it
[06:21] <Kamion> janimo: attaching the installer's /var/log/syslog to a bug report should help me
[06:23] <janimo> Kamion, ok I'll retry and save it if possible
[06:32] <Kamion> janimo: if not, finding out for me more detail on why pcmciautils fails would be nice
[06:32] <Kamion> nano -v /var/log/syslog and look for the actual erroor
[06:32] <Kamion> error
[06:32] <janimo> pcmiautils fails because it depends on udev
[06:32] <janimo> which failed do dpkg --configure
[06:33] <janimo> as far as I see
[06:33] <janimo> oh, nano. I tried less but it wasn't there
[06:36] <janimo> Kamion, so IIRC when loking at the tail of the errors it went dpkg --configure failed for udev
[06:36] <janimo> then ubuntu-minimal and pcmciautils which depended on it failed too
[06:37] <janimo> will produce more details hopefully, I'll reboot soon
[06:38] <Kamion> janimo: ok, then finding out exactly why udev failed would be good
[07:07] <janimo> Kamion,  /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: line 36: /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf: No such file or directory
[07:07] <janimo> Jan 17 19:55:15 debootstrap: dpkg: error processing udev (--configure):
[07:07] <janimo> Jan 17 19:55:15 debootstrap:  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[07:08] <janimo> but I'll attach the whole file to a LP bug 
[07:08] <Kamion> nice ...
[07:09] <Kamion> you must have no swap partition configured?
[07:09] <Kamion> otherwise base-installer ought to have created /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf
[07:09] <Kamion> but yeah, bug report'd be good
[07:09] <janimo> I have swap configured
[07:09] <janimo> at least it detected the existing swap
[07:10] <janimo> but I chose root as hda4 and home hda10 or so I hope it did not get confused by the partition layout somwhow
[07:10] <janimo> swap is on ext2
[07:10] <ogra> ?
[07:10] <janimo> could that be it? These all should be in the syslog for you to see I assume
[07:10] <janimo> ogra, right  I am silly
[07:10] <ogra> you mean s/ext2/hda2 ?
[07:10] <janimo>  boot is on ext2
[07:10] <ogra> heh :)
[07:10] <janimo> yeah swap was detected as swap
[07:12] <janimo> Kamion, indeed in syslog I now see : Device or resource busy for times for trying swapon
[07:12] <janimo> so that may be the cause
[07:12] <janimo> four times not for times
[07:17] <Riddell> do I use Fix Committed or Fix Released in Malone if the package is in dapper?
[07:19] <ajmitch> fix released, I think
[07:19] <Riddell> sounds best to me
[07:20] <ajmitch> fix committed was previously called pending upload
[07:22] <mjg59> Robot101: http://ralphm.net/blog/2006/01/17/gtalk_s2s
[07:22] <Riddell> seb128: do you know if gnome needs libnss-mdns for avahi DNS?
[07:22] <Robot101> mjg59: I know
[07:23] <mjg59> Does it work, then?
[07:23] <Robot101> not tried it, don't really care. the implications for me are just annoying
[07:23] <seb128> Riddell: I don't think so, but avahi-daemon Depends on it, why? slomo_ probably knows better about that though
[07:23] <mjg59> Haha
[07:27] <Kamion> janimo: dunno, probably not
[07:27] <Kamion> janimo: swap's only relevant in that base-installer uses it to guess a resume partition
[07:28] <janimo> Kamion, I attached the full log anyway to a bug
[07:28] <Kamion> ta
[07:29] <Kamion> oh, hey, base-installer's initramfs stuff won't have run at that point anyway
[07:32] <\sh> Robot101: does it mean, that google is completly open for every s2s communications for jabber?
[07:33] <ulaas> what the heck!? i have a debian root menu item in Applications.. any ideas?
[07:34] <dholbach> ulaas: it's the 'menu' package
[07:35] <seb128> ulaas: remove menu-xdg
[07:35] <Robot101> \sh: yes
[07:35] <ulaas> i wonder how it did get installed
[07:40] <nbgast> seb128, You confirmed gnome-bug 323724 (g-s-d BadValue)?
[07:41] <Riddell> seb128: avahi-daemon only Recommends avahi-daemon
[07:41] <seb128> nbgast: I did, why
[07:41] <Riddell> slomo_: do you know if gnome zeroconf needs libnss-mdns?
[07:41] <Riddell> s/Recommends avahi-daemon/Recommends libnss-mdns?/
[07:41] <mdke> Riddell, did you see my highlight from yesterday?
[07:42] <nbgast> I pasted some debugging logs at the end. But, my debufgging skills are certinly dubious.
[07:42] <Riddell> mdke: don't think so
[07:42] <Riddell> mdke: hmm, build directory for kubuntu docs.  may well have done
[07:42] <nbgast> seb128, the patch wasn't effective. I contacted marienz, hwo in turn recommended posting gdb output there.
[07:43] <mdke> Riddell, ok. did you move the build folder from kubuntu up a dir in the ubuntu-docs repository? the preview server hasn't been updating because it syncs from the old folder. If the new build dir is trunk/kubuntu/build I can adjust the server
[07:43] <mdke> but some of the www make targets need to be fixed too
[07:43] <seb128> nbgast: g-s-d can crash for different reason
[07:44] <nbgast> yes, but the tracebacks occur in the same function that marienz patched. he ackknowledged the relatedness.
[07:44] <Riddell> mdke: please adjust the server, I'll try and look at the build targets
[07:44] <seb128> nbgast: join #ubuntu-desktop about it if you want
[07:44] <mdke> Riddell, awesome thanks. "make web" is what the server runs, so if that finishes, we're good to go
[07:45] <seb128> Kamion: could you accept/promote new binaries from evolution-data-server?
[07:46] <mdke> Riddell, it might just be enough to create the trunk/kubuntu/build/kubuntu directory
[07:50] <mdke> Riddell, i think that will do it. And remove server-web from the "make web" target because that builds on the ubuntu Makefile and we don't need two on the website.
[07:50] <mdke> Riddell, i'd do it but I left my svn account at the office
[07:53] <janimo> Kamion, from your comments I see nothing that would be particular to my setup
[07:53] <janimo> how is this working in other installs?
[08:03] <Kamion> janimo: note the "random" bit in my comment ...
[08:04] <Kamion> seb128: I don't see anything relevant in the queue
[08:04] <Treenaks> argh, no wpasupplicant on the install-CD
[08:05] <Treenaks> Kamion: any reason for that (space?)
[08:05] <seb128> Kamion: I've uploaded e-d-s 1.5.5, libcamel1.2-8 and libedataserver1.2-7 are new packages (soname change)
[08:05] <Kamion> Treenaks: space, and that it's in universe
[08:05] <ajmitch> Treenaks: it's not in main?
[08:05] <seb128> Kamion: maybe it has not been accepted yet, or maybe elmo processed it already ... in case it show up would be nice to get them promoted so we can rebuild GNOME stuff again new soname :)
[08:05] <Treenaks> Kamion: hm.. isn't that bad (the it's-in-universe thing)?
[08:06] <Kamion> seb128: oh, they just haven't built yet
[08:06] <Kamion> I'll have a look after dinner
[08:06] <ajmitch> Treenaks: write up a main inclusion report then :)
[08:06] <seb128> Kamion: thank you
[08:06] <Kamion> Treenaks: somebody needs to look over it, verify that it's sane and supportable, etc.
[08:06] <seb128> dinner time here too
[08:06] <seb128> bbl
[08:06] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok... how does that work? (where do I submit a request?)
[08:07] <BenC> slomo_: banshee needs avahi-sharp, where can I find it?
[08:07] <Kamion> Treenaks: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[08:08] <Kamion> I'll write up something about that for DeveloperResources after dinner
[08:08] <ajmitch> BenC: libavahi-cil
[08:10] <BenC> thanks
[08:46] <pitti> to all the native English speakers here: it's 'detailed', not 'detailled', right?
[08:47] <Burgwork> pitti, yep
[08:47] <pitti> thanks
[08:49] <pitti> Hey Keybuk 
[08:49] <Keybuk> pitti: hey
[08:49] <ogra> Keybuk !
[08:49] <Keybuk> pitti: so I was thinking ... how did bootlog work before then?
[08:49] <BenC> ok, banshee installed, and it's reading my itunes share, but it crashes when I try to play a song from it
[08:49] <Keybuk> it used to be at S02, which meant it wouldn't have a writable filesystem then either
[08:50] <ogra> Keybuk, it never worked in ubuntu
[08:50] <Keybuk> I moved it forwards because it depends on /dev/pts, tty, etc.
[08:50] <pitti> Keybuk: in breezy checkroot was at 10
[08:50] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, then it apparently didn't work either
[08:50] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, but bootlog was at 02 ... 02 < 10 :)
[08:50] <pitti> Keybuk: but still we could make it work in dapper :)
[08:50] <ogra> Keybuk, i had a BOF with dilinger about it at UDU
[08:50] <pitti> Keybuk: or drop it completely (it's pretty reduntant anyway)
[08:50] <Keybuk> if it needs a writable /var, it needs to be moved to after mountall
[08:50] <pitti> redundant, even
[08:50] <Keybuk> so, err *checks whiteboard*, S37 or so
[08:50] <ogra> there must be a UDU spec somewhere 
[08:51] <Keybuk> and by that point, you've missed most of the boot that was worth logging ;)
[08:51] <pitti> Keybuk: if it's started that late, it doesn't make much sense any more I think
[08:51] <pitti> Keybuk: heh :)
[08:51] <Diziet> Also I have a vague hope it might reduce general crashiness compared to the rc3 we've had so far.
[08:52] <pitti> Keybuk: I wonder if there would be any information in it which isn't already in kern.log and syslog
[08:52] <Diziet> Of course Debian reorganised everything in the meantime so instead we're going to have even more reorganisation-induced breakage.
[08:52] <Keybuk> pitti: so yeah, either drop it entirely (something I won't cry about) or modify it to write to /var/run and move to /var/log later?
[08:52] <Keybuk> pitti: it logs the console output
[08:52] <pitti> Diziet: maybe it also fixes the menu dizzyness
[08:52] <Keybuk> I'm not sure whether it even works with usplash :p
[08:52] <Keybuk> or we could make it part of usplash
[08:52] <Diziet> Menu dizzyness ?
[08:52] <ogra> Keybuk, i tried to switch my thin client chroots to dash for a test the other day ... hearly everything worked fine apart from udev ...
[08:52] <pitti> Diziet: sometimes, the menus go crazy and I have to navigate thorugh them with the left mouse button pressed (and even then it fails sometimes)
[08:53] <ogra> s/hearly/nearly
[08:53] <Diziet> How odd.
[08:53] <pitti> Diziet: but it's hard to reproduce and happens only seldom, so I didn't bother filing it so far
[08:53] <Diziet> Well, let me know.  (If you can get the damn thing to run at all.)
[08:53] <pitti> Diziet: no, not now. I'm still using dchroot -c breezy firefox
[08:53] <Diziet> :-)
[08:53] <Keybuk> ogra: what broke?
[08:53] <pitti> Diziet: maybe 1.5 final works, /me crosses fingers
[08:53] <ogra> Keybuk, is that worth a bug or is it intentional
[08:53] <ogra> it didnt start 
[08:53] <Keybuk> bug please
[08:53] <ogra> oki
[08:54] <Keybuk> in particular, make sure you note the kernel version and stuff
[08:54] <ogra> dash brings a great speedup :)
[08:54] <Diziet> There's definitely at least one crappy patch still in there that needs to go out but I'm hoping the Debian maintainer will get rid of it first so it doesn't show up backwards in the d->u diff.
[08:54] <Keybuk> yeah, bash is slow, news at 11
[08:54] <Keybuk> I probably used a bashism unknowingly
[08:55] <Keybuk> but I didn't think IU ha
[08:55] <Keybuk> I had
[08:57] <Burgwork> Diziet, do you love FF yet?
[08:58] <janimo> Diziet, did the libnss3 dep got added?
[08:58] <janimo> err, get added
[09:00] <Diziet> janimo: Err, probably not.
[09:01] <mjg59> mdz: Meeting?
[09:01] <janimo> Diziet, it's ok I have it hand-installed. It occuers mostly with xubuntu-desktop installs where there's no gnome software to bring libnss3 in
[09:03] <ogra> mjg59, its martin luther king day ... he might not be around ...
[09:04] <BenC> yesterday was MLK day
[09:05] <lotusleaf> today is Richard Simmons day
[09:05] <ogra> oh....
[09:05] <ogra> muddled the dates then :)
[09:06] <dilinger> today we sweat to the oldies?
[09:07] <lotusleaf> dilinger: that's the spirit!
[09:28] <sjoerd> pitti: http://beast.luon.net/~sjoerd/hal.patch
[09:29] <pitti> sjoerd: thanks, I'll give it an eyeballing
[09:29] <sjoerd> thanks
[09:37] <DoeRayMe> hey, as the forums are down, how come this isnt in the repo, universe or main? http://gift-fasttrack.berlios.de/ its a plugin for giFT, like the Gnutella and OpenFT
[09:37] <mdke> jdub, awesome work on planet. got a (pretty rubbish) hackergotchi for you if it's trivial to add to planet. it's at launchpad/people/mdke
[09:37] <HiddenWolf> DoeRayMe: this is a development channel.
[09:37] <mdke> DoeRayMe, normally if a package isn't in Ubuntu, it means it isn't in Debian. ask in #ubuntu-motu if they will add it
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> DoeRayMe: basicly, probably nobody has requested it to be packaged, and nobody has done so for ubuntu.
[09:38] <dholbach> DoeRayMe: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates might be what you want.
[09:38] <Mithrandir> mdke: btw, I'm going to get the breezy-docs stuff done for you, so no need to ping infinity about it any more.
[09:40] <mdke> Mithrandir, oh that's the best news ever
[09:40] <mdke> thanks so much
[09:41] <pitti> sjoerd: OMG, that's a mega-patch :)
[09:41] <Mithrandir> mdke: it might take a day or so to work out, but I hope that's ok.
[09:41] <sjoerd> pitti: what did you expect ? :)
[09:41] <pitti> sjoerd: mjg59 expected 'some 40 lines' :)
[09:41] <mdke> Mithrandir, sure, mail me if there is anything that isn't clear: mdke@
[09:42] <Mithrandir> mdke: sure.
[09:42] <mdke> :))
[09:42] <pitti> sjoerd: anyway, it's not something I can review besides the meeting, I'll dig into it tomorrow
[09:42] <sjoerd> pitti: np, didn't expect you to do it tonight 
[09:43] <Kamion> elmo: please sync installation-locale, overwriting our changes
[10:21] <trappist> I posted a bug on malone and was informed by a bounce that I wasn't subscribed to ubuntu-bugs and that my message was pending moderator approval.  is there an active moderator for that list or should I repost now that I've subscribed?
[10:22] <Kamion> trappist: no, it's a bug in list configuration, ignore it
[10:22] <dholbach> trappist: no, just leave it and better unsubscribe, the mailing list is HIGH volume. the problem will be resolved.
[10:22] <dholbach> :)
[10:22] <Kamion> if you repost you'll create a duplicate in malone
[10:23] <trappist> cool, thanks
[10:24] <sivang> hrm, UVF means no more changes from upstream right? what about ubuntu local specs?
[10:24] <trappist> I prepared myself for high volume via .procmailrc so I'll see how it goes before unsubbing
[10:24] <dholbach> sivang: Feature Freeze
[10:24] <wftl> Can anyone suggest a quick way to reset the desktop menus (when I do a dist-upgrade on Dapper). I want to make sure I'm always looking at the latest incarnation, but I don't want to blow away all my data.
[10:25] <HiddenWolf> sivang: packages requested, considered harmless, or needed for goals stand a good chance of getting past the freeze, of course. :)
[10:25] <sivang> dholbach: phew, that what I thought :) thanks for reassuring
[10:26] <sivang> HiddenWolf: Nahh, I'm gonna die hard to make it before FF. if I need more time, I will ask only if those are toufh finishes, or fixes etc..
[10:26] <ulaas> superkaramba depends on xmms. nonsense?
[10:27] <daniels> Kamion: do you mind if we diverge a bit in base-files?
[10:27] <daniels> Kamion: actually, nevermind.  i'm just being stupid.
[10:27] <HiddenWolf> daniels: did your blog just tell me that you put your computer in your luggage on a trip?
[10:29] <daniels> HiddenWolf: hard drives in carry-on, of course, but yeah.
[10:29] <HiddenWolf> daniels: dare I ask, why?
[10:30] <daniels> HiddenWolf: mostly in the name of getting DRI working on r4xx chips + pcie + amd64
[10:31] <daniels> HiddenWolf: it seemed cheaper than buying airlied an amd64, a decent motherboard, and an r4xx pcie card
[10:32] <HiddenWolf> ah. :/
[10:37] <sd-tux> hi people, is locales package maintainer on this channel  ?  ubuntu package don't offer ka_GE.UTF-8 locale .. same version on debian SID offers it
[10:38] <Mithrandir> it doesn't seem to be supported
[10:39] <HiddenWolf> isn't that pitti?
[10:39] <pitti> sd-tux: yes, that sounds like I am to blame
[10:40] <pitti> sd-tux: I'll resync with belocs
[10:40] <sd-tux> pitti: ok cool
[10:44] <mhz> jdub: ping
[10:50] <bronson> Bug in Dapper: /dev/fuse is groop "root" where it should be group "fuse"
[10:51] <Keybuk> bronson: file a bug
[10:51] <bronson> ok.
[10:51] <Keybuk> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/udev/+filebug
[10:53] <daniels> Kamion: we only support upgrading through each stable release, right?
[10:53] <daniels> Kamion: i'd like to ditch the /usr/X11R6 symlink<->dir migration logic
[10:54] <bronson> Keybuk, hey thanks!
[10:55] <pitti> mjg59: btw, will you upload a new version soon that addresses the issues in the main inclusion report?
[10:55] <pitti> mjg59: pam-foreground, that is
[10:55] <mjg59> pitti: Yup
[10:56] <Kamion> daniels: yes, but we would also like to support Debian relatively-recent-ish to Ubuntu sidegrades, and I think that logic is still needed there
[10:56] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: isn't debian -> ubuntu a recipe for definite pain?
[10:56] <pitti> mjg59: btw, it isn't actually 'foreground', more 'console', right? so did you just name it like this to avoid name clashes with Fedora's pam_console, or can you actually find out which is the active display?
[10:57] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: it had better not be
[10:57] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: there may be some issues, but we can and should resolve them IMHO
[10:57] <pitti> mjg59: it would totally rock if the current console could be determined by unprivileged programs
[10:57] <mjg59> pitti: It would, but, well.
[10:58] <mjg59> You need to be able to open the current tty, and that's owned by root in X's case
[10:59] <pitti> mjg59: well, actually I don't even need the current tty number, just the information whether or not a given $DISPLAY is active or not
[10:59] <mjg59> pitti: Uh. No, there's absolutely no way of doing that.
[10:59] <pitti> bu this seems to be incredibly difficult to find out
[10:59] <mjg59> The concept of an active DISPLAY doesn't really make any sense
[10:59] <ogra> mdz, do you have an opinion to using /bin/sh -> /bin/dash on thin clients ? 
[10:59] <mjg59> It's perfectly valid to have more than one
[11:00] <pitti> mjg59: well, it breaks removable devices in interesting ways if you have a spare session on an inactive x session
[11:00] <daniels> Kamion: mmm, okay
[11:00] <mjg59> pitti: How?
[11:00] <pitti> mjg59: yes, I'm aware of the multihead problem
[11:00] <pitti> mjg59: say I'm at vt7, and my gf has a locked display at vt8
[11:00] <mjg59> pitti: Yes
[11:00] <pitti> mjg59: then both g-v-m's race about grabbing a newly plugged usb stick
[11:00] <mjg59> pitti: No, that's the point of this code
[11:01] <mjg59> (Well, amongst others)
[11:01] <mjg59> That's a solved problem
[11:01] <pitti> mjg59: so if I'm unlucky, my gf gets the stick assigned, and I can't access it
[11:01] <pitti> mjg59: oh?
[11:01] <mjg59> You just ensure that mount requests are coming from the current VT
[11:01] <pitti> mjg59: so 'foreground' is indeed justified?
[11:01] <mjg59> Yes
[11:01] <mdz> ogra: I'd be interested in measurements of the performance impact
[11:01] <pitti> yay
[11:02] <mjg59> pitti: At the moment, it requires dbus to have a small root helper
[11:02] <ogra> it *feels* faster... i havent done any relevant measuring yet
[11:02] <mjg59> (which is in our dbus)
[11:02] <pitti> mjg59: I thought it just records which user is at which console
[11:02] <mjg59> pitti: Yes, that's what it does
[11:02] <pitti> mjg59: ah, I see, and this helper calls fgconsole?
[11:02] <mjg59> Then dbus checks that
[11:02] <pitti> I see
[11:02] <pitti> or s/call fgconsole/just do the system call to find it out/
[11:03] <mjg59> It's an ioctl, but yeah
[11:03] <pitti> I saw the code once, it was fairly easy, yes
[11:05] <dholbach> mjg59: I wondered, if you were going to include gnome-power-manager 0.3.4 - which was released with gnome 2.13.5.
[11:05] <ogra> dholbach, just packaging it :)
[11:05] <dholbach> ogra: ah ok, cool.
[11:06] <ogra> dholbach, will get in tomorrow with a bunch of other stuff from my disk ;)
[11:06] <Kamion> elmo: please sync aalib, chucking changes
[11:52] <netdur> hey, I don't know how to report bug about this problem http://www.flickr.com/photos/77122833@N00/87969378/
[11:53] <HrdwrBoB> that means  either the initrd is broken
[11:53] <HrdwrBoB> or your hard drive is broken
[11:54] <netdur> can vmware hard drive be broken?
[11:56] <HrdwrBoB> if you break it in the options
[11:57] <HiddenWolf> bugs seen on an emulator are always unreliable
[11:58] <netdur> I did not change anything... I used recommended options (which vmware choose per default), and that screenshot is on first boot after first stage instalation
[12:00] <netdur> do dapper support ide hd well?