[12:03] <chninkel> LaserJock: sure, I will send a mail
[12:03] <chninkel> LaserJock: 2 days before UVF
[12:03] <LaserJock> chninkel: the best thing would be indeed to send a list of bug #s that are ready to go to the ML
[12:03] <chninkel> LaserJock: hope it will be enough
[12:03] <LaserJock> if I was a MOTU I would do it myself, but ...
[12:04] <chninkel> LaserJock: yes would be nice to be a MOTU
[12:04] <chninkel> LaserJock: for now I am glad my debdiff are examined
[12:05] <chninkel> LaserJock: but for easy debdiff or sync would be nice to directly put the package
[12:05] <LaserJock> yeah, but somebody has to check it out
[12:06] <Kyral> yo
[12:06] <LaserJock> I think right now it is not so easy to seperate out the reviewing that needs to be done for merges and what needs to be review for new packages
[12:06] <Kyral> and HOLY COW its COLD
[12:06] <LaserJock> Kyral: like how cold?
[12:06] <Kyral> hovering around 0
[12:07] <Kyral> Only 2 days before UVF?
[12:07] <LaserJock> depends on TZ
[12:08] <LaserJock> I don't know
[12:09] <LaserJock> chninkel's work needs to get reviewed anyway. I think new packages have until Feature Freeze. Maybe, I'm still confused about it
[12:09] <Kyral> I have a new package in REVU
[12:09] <chninkel> chninkel: I also don't  understand everything myself
[12:12] <chninkel> LaserJock: in fact how many active MOTU is there ?
[12:13] <lucas> LaserJock: I'm working on libgnuplot-ruby right now
[12:13] <lucas> so it will be in before feature freeze
[12:14] <LaserJock> lucas: sweet, thanks
[12:14] <LaserJock> chninkel: there are probably 25 active MOTUs
[12:14] <Kyral> Actually
[12:14] <Kyral> Jeez
[12:15] <Kyral> okay time to repatch..
[12:16] <LaserJock> chninkel: actually I might say there is a core group of about 20 MOTUs that you will see around here
[12:17] <Kyral> dangit
[12:17] <Kyral> the uupdate for Spe failed
[12:34] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[12:34] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[12:35] <LaserJock> how's it going?
[12:35] <Hobbsee> not so good - a lot of the kde programs seem to be crashing on me, whenever i try to start them!
[12:36] <chninkel> LaserJock: I've sent the mail
[12:39] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: not good, but you realize you opened yourself up for a "just use gnome" ;-)
[12:40] <LaserJock> chninkel: good, looks great
[12:41] <chninkel> LaserJock: after UVF, we go in bugfix only mode ?
[12:42] <lucas> depends on the kind of bugfix ;)
[12:44] <dholbach> good night everybody.
[12:44] <chninkel> lucas: well bugfix is bugfix ! ;)
[12:45] <Kyral> Holy cow...
[12:45] <Kyral> Spe needs WORK
[12:45] <LaserJock> chninkel: I guess it might also depend on whether a bugfix would need a new upstream version
[12:45] <lucas> chances are high that, at least in the beginning, syncs could be requested when the new debian version is not a major change
[12:45] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[12:45] <chninkel> good night dholbach
[12:53] <Kyral> hey LJ wanna look over this and see if I made any obvious mistakes?
[12:53] <Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1510
[12:54] <Hobbsee> LaserJock, hehe - cant stand gnome!
[12:54] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I can see
[12:54] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: sorry, I use KDE too but I had to say something ;-)
[12:54] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:57] <Kyral> SMall tarball...
[12:57] <Kyral> fittiing a VERY small editor...
[12:58] <chninkel> good night everyone
[12:58] <LaserJock> Kyral: you might want to think about switching to debhelper 5 and put a year in debian/copyright
[12:58] <LaserJock> cya chninkel
[12:58] <Kyral> LaserJock: yah okay
[12:58] <Kyral> LJ call up GNOMEFiles and lookup GTKEdit
[12:59] <LaserJock> hmm, it is small, but look at the screenshots :-)
[12:59] <Kyral> Yah
[12:59] <Kyral> Perfect for LowMem systems no?
[01:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:00] <Kyral> the tarball is LITERALLY 4 files
[01:02] <Kyral> something this small I can just hit it with CDBS...
[01:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: config.sub and config.guess take up a major part of your diff.gz
[01:02] <Kyral> LaserJock: yah its AutoConf
[01:02] <LaserJock> I wonder if there is a way to get rid of that, it is annoying
[01:03] <LaserJock> or if it is ok to get rid of it even
[01:03] <Kyral> Its the standard diff generated by dpkg
[01:03] <LaserJock> I know
[01:03] <LaserJock> it just annoys me >:|
[01:05] <Kyral> there is only one Lintian warning in LaptopTemp Monitor..
[01:05] <Kyral> about one of the Python files having #!/usr/bin/env python
[01:06] <Kyral> but that command just invokes Python
[01:11] <Kyral> I'll create a lintian Overrides file
[01:11] <Kyral> LJ didja try GTKEdit?
[01:14] <LaserJock> Kyral: no
[01:15] <Kyral> I'll email upstream
[01:15] <Kyral> Sometimes I think I'm overdoing it lol
[01:16] <Kyral> Its like I jump on everything lol
[01:19] <LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, you need to step back and look at the big picture sometimes
[01:20] <Kyral> well, this time this does fit ;P
[01:21] <LaserJock> lol, I'll bet you say that about every app you run across in gnomefiles
[01:21] <Kyral> LowMem systems ;P
[01:21] <LaserJock> that's what nano, and emacs and vim are for ;-)
[01:21] <Kyral> and IMHO, you can never have enough free software :P
[01:22] <Kyral> What about the people who are terrified of the Terminal ;P
[01:22] <LaserJock> IMHO, you can have to much free software if it's all crap
[01:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: easy solution - i'd tried removing skim, not realising it was crucial - all works fine now
[01:22] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: interesting
[01:22] <Kyral> Personally I think every piece of software will be good for someone :P
[01:22] <Hobbsee> very
[01:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: but if I have to choose between getting every app know to man into Ubuntu and making sure that the ones that are already there work to the best of there ability ...
[01:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: btw, I think it is great to have guys like you around
[01:23] <Kyral> well of course make sure they WORK
[01:24] <lucas> gnight all
[01:24] <Kyral> who are hopelessly optimistic?
[01:24] <LaserJock> cya lucas
[01:24] <lucas> LaserJock: I finished libgnuplot-ruby, awaiting review from somebody from pkg-ruby-extras
[01:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: but have you seen the number of bug reports? Obviously there is a difference between works and works well
[01:24] <Kyral> but seriously, I saw this and was like...this would be great in Damn Small Linux
[01:24] <LaserJock> lucas: thanks so much
[01:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: I agree that it is cool
[01:25] <lucas> np
[01:25] <Kyral> hey sistpoty
[01:25] <sistpoty> hey Kyral
[01:26] <LaserJock> Kyral: are you going to try to get it into Ubuntu first or go directly to Debian?
[01:26] <Kyral> LaserJock: I know how Ubuntu works better than Debian ;P
[01:27] <Kyral> and with the UVF only a couple days away...
[01:27] <Kyral> but I suppose I could also file an ITP...
[01:28] <LaserJock> Kyral: I think from now on I'm going to try to go straight to Debian
[01:29] <LaserJock> sistpoty: great, I told him to email the list. He couldn't get any MOTUs here.
[01:29] <sistpoty> oh, no other motu here? :(
[01:30] <Kyral> LJ: I plan to become a MOTU before going fully into Debian
[01:30] <LaserJock> Kyral: makes sense
[01:30] <Kyral> sistpoty: *evil grin* You are the only one to handle annoying Review requests ;P
[01:31] <sistpoty> Kyral: he, but these will be my only reviews for tonight... /me is a little bit ill :(
[01:31] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, Yann isn't here too often and I saw that he had done a lot of merge work
[01:31] <Kyral> I really wanna get LaptopTemp in before the UVF
[01:32] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sending the request to the list was a very good idea
[01:32] <sistpoty> Kyral: new package?
[01:32] <Kyral> sistpoty: yah
[01:32] <Kyral> Works nicely on my laptop
[01:32] <sistpoty> Kyral: we have more time until featurefreeze for new packages :)
[01:32] <Kyral> oh
[01:32] <Kyral> whens that?
[01:33] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, I hope we don't get a bunch of other request flooding the list but he had so many that I thought an email might help
[01:33] <LaserJock> Kyral: it's about a month from UVF, I think
[01:33] <Kyral> oh
[01:34] <sistpoty> Kyral: it's feb 23 (wiki:DapperReleaseSchedule)
[01:34] <Kyral> oh
[01:35] <LaserJock> ok, bbl
[01:40] <psusi> is there a channel for the utnubu team?
[01:40] <sistpoty> no idea really
[01:41] <azeem> I don't think so
[01:41] <sistpoty> psusi: you might ask nomeata in ubuntu-devel, but whois says he is afk atm
[01:42] <sistpoty> wow, sentence w. lots of acronyms *g*
[01:42] <azeem> sistpoty: s/ubuntu-devel/#u-d/
[01:42] <sistpoty> ;)
[01:43] <Kyral> hmm
[01:43] <Kyral> back on GNOME
[01:44] <Kyral> Because I got bored ;P
[01:45] <psusi> heh
[01:46] <psusi> darn... who was it that was willing to upload my dmraid package to universe?
[01:46] <Kyral> and I just moved the Trash to the Trash
[01:46] <psusi> lol
[01:47] <psusi> DON'T DO THAT!  YOU'LL CREATE A RIP IN THE SPACE TIME CONTINUM AND DESROY THE UNIVERSE~#!#!#
[01:47] <psusi> ;)
[01:48] <sistpoty> cat /dev/zero | /dev/null
[01:48] <Kyral> hhaha
[01:49] <psusi> lol
[01:50] <psusi> come on... that's totally inefficient... you'll use far less cpu time if you dd if=/dev/zero iflag=direct of=/dev/null oflag=direct bs=64KiB
[01:52] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:53] <sistpoty> next lesson in motu-school: how to destroy space time continuum most efficiently ;)
[01:58] <Kyral> he
[02:01] <psusi> heheh
[02:06] <Kyral> okay back on Flux
[02:41] <crimsun> heh, I requested those syncs last week
[02:42] <sistpoty> crimsun: what syncs? the ones I said to elmo?
[02:43] <crimsun> sistpoty: yes, but it doesn't matter now. They'll get processed, and that's what matters.
[02:43] <sistpoty> crimsun: yep... I also requested my 2 syncs a while ago, but they didn't make it to the archives
[02:44] <sistpoty> crimsun: but I'll write a reply to the mail on -motu list, before s.o. else also requests these syncs again ;)
[02:49] <Kyral> hmm
[02:50] <Kyral> how do I start something in the background and make it immune to SIGHUP?
[02:50] <hub> Kyral: man nohup
[02:50] <Kyral> ty
[02:51] <Kyral> this will stop the slitapps from dying when the console dies :D
[02:57] <crimsun> oh boy, spam in -devel
[03:07] <Kyral> hey slomo_
[03:46] <LaserJock> so if I get a new program packaged in Debian before feature freeze can I get it into dapper?
[03:48] <crimsun> if you get it into Debian Sid prior to Jan 19th
[03:48] <crimsun> oh wait, you said NEW
[03:48] <crimsun> yeah, FF is the date
[03:52] <LaserJock> crimsun: ok, thanks
[03:53] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you use svn-buildpackage?
[03:54] <crimsun> LaserJock: no
[03:54] <Yagisan> someone looking for me ?
[03:54] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you use any kind of revision control for your packaging? I'm just curious what people are doing
[03:55] <crimsun> I used monotone previously, but I use git now
[03:55] <crimsun> it was a fairly natural conversion since git essentially is a monotone snapshot
[03:56] <lifeless> eh?
[03:56] <lifeless> they have no code in common last I heard
[03:56] <crimsun> lifeless: yeah, a lot of hand-waving on my part
[03:56] <lifeless> handwaving? that was a freaking renaissance masterpiece
[03:56] <crimsun> it's more precise to say git is based on monotone in concept
[03:57] <lifeless> crimsun: uhhhh
[03:57] <lifeless> crimsun: news to me.
[03:57] <crimsun> lifeless: hey, I've been wrong before.
[03:58] <crimsun> from a user perspective, it doesn't seem _too_ far apart
[03:58] <lifeless> I can believe it was an easy conversion, as modern VCSs have quite a bit in common
[03:59] <lifeless> but I would not call git a derivative of monotone in any sense
[03:59] <crimsun> fair enough
[04:00] <crimsun> I leave the VCS/es to you guys; I just use it/them
[04:01] <LaserJock> well, I didn't even know there was a revision control system other the CVS and RCS (in emacs) until I started using Ubuntu
[04:01] <crimsun> there are dozens
[04:01] <LaserJock> now I just got to figure out how to use them
[04:02] <crimsun> that's usually the easier part
[04:02] <LaserJock> oh no, what's the hard part then?
[04:02] <crimsun> picking the one(s) you use
[04:03] <LaserJock> oh, well yes I've been fighting that for a while now. I'm going between svn and bzr
[04:04] <LaserJock> but I need to learn svn for the docteam repo anyway so I am trying to learn it
[04:04] <LaserJock> however, a lot of MOTU related stuff seems to be in bzr so I am learning that to
[04:04] <Kyral> brb
[04:05] <LaserJock> but I really just need to get the basic concepts of revision control down
[04:08] <Yagisan> LaserJock: isn't the basics RCS :-P
[04:09] <psusi> lol... RCS isn't hardly any better than diff ;)
[04:09] <LaserJock> Yagisan: I suppose but basically the only thing I've ever done is use CVS/svn for getting source and RCS for a program my boss and I use in the lab
[04:10] <LaserJock> RCS wasn't to hard to use from inside emacs but I always ended up forgeting and changing permissions on files ("why are these read only?") and doing stupid things like that
[04:14] <Kyral> Okay I <3 Dockapps
[04:33] <LaserJock> can you use relative icon paths in debian/menu files?
[04:40] <bddebian> Hey folks
[04:40] <whiprush> bddebian: !!!
[04:41] <whiprush> how long has it been?
[04:41] <LaserJock> hi bddebian!!!
[04:42] <bddebian> Hi whiprush, LaserJock !
[04:42] <bddebian> Too long :-(
[04:42] <whiprush> welcome back!
[04:42] <LaserJock> just in time to do some merging ;-)
[04:43] <Kyral> yo bddebian
[04:43] <bddebian> Yeah if I can get my fscking ThinkPad wireless working.. :-(
[04:43] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[04:43] <Kyral> lol
[04:44] <bddebian> Why's it so quiet in here?  Everyone working hard? ;-)
[04:46] <LaserJock> well, actually since you were here last Kyral and I took over MOTU ;-)
[04:46] <Kyral> heheh
[04:46] <LaserJock> kicked ogra and dholbach and told elmo to take a hike
[04:46] <LaserJock> *just kidding*
[04:47] <bddebian> w00t
[04:47] <bddebian> Awww :-)
[04:48] <LaserJock> I think people are either asleep or working like crazy before UVF
[04:50] <Kyral> while LJ and I try to get as many packages as we can in :P
[04:50] <bddebian> UVF ALREADY??? WTF?
[04:50] <Kyral> I think bddebian just had a heart attack
[04:50] <Yagisan> almost
[04:51] <bddebian> Damn, have I really been away that long?
[04:51] <LaserJock> yep, UVF is 19th
[04:51] <Kyral> Yes now get back here
[04:52] <Yagisan> bddebian: yep, the new kids don't even know who you are. The old timers tell stories of what it was like when you were here
[04:52] <bddebian> Yagisan: Haha, yeah right :-)
[04:53] <Yagisan> :) wb, hope you have a good break
[04:54] <LaserJock> bddebian: and you need to get your LP karma back in shape
[04:57] <bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, no shit :-)
[04:57] <bddebian> Yagisan: No, RL work is kicking my arse :-(
[04:57] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah \sh is >3300
[04:57] <bddebian> eeks
[04:58] <Yagisan> bddebian: I get to kick my own arse for RL work. Hey, need a security audit ??
[04:58] <bddebian> Any of you have stinkpads?
[04:58] <bddebian> Yagisan: Badly but with me as the only viable resource I don't know how much good it would do ;-P
[04:58] <whiprush> bddebian: X40 here.
[04:59] <Yagisan> bddebian: where are you ?
[05:00] <Yagisan> whiprush: don't worry, I'll get to you next ;)
[05:00] <bddebian> Yagisan: Philly, USA
[05:00] <whiprush> heh
[05:00] <bddebian> whiprush: Built-in wireless?
[05:00] <whiprush> yeah
[05:00] <whiprush> madwifi
[05:01] <bddebian> Hmm, never tried madwifi
[05:01] <Yagisan> bddebian: well, I guess that rules out onsite work, but still if anything here sounds useful http://eyagi.bpa.nu:8081/eyagi let me know
[05:01] <bddebian> Hmm, I see the PBuilderHowto still says breezy
[05:01] <bddebian> Yagisan: OK, cool
[05:02] <whiprush> bddebian: the workload never gets better. heh.
[05:02] <bddebian> Yeah no kidding
[05:03] <bddebian> Especially when you are admin/developer/SQL DBA/applications support/web........
[05:03] <Yagisan> bddebian: I feel your pain
[05:04] <bddebian> I had to laugh when I start at this place though
[05:04] <bddebian> The network was a mess
[05:04] <ajmitch> afternoon
[05:04] <Yagisan> ajmitch: afternoon
[05:04] <whiprush> hi aj
[05:05] <bddebian> They said they had a DMZ because they had some machines at 192.168.0.x and some at 192.168.10.x.  Of course the idiots were using a class B subnet mask!! ;-P
[05:05] <whiprush> look, it's bddebian!
[05:05] <Yagisan> whiprush: you also in the USA ?
[05:05] <bddebian> ajmitch: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[05:05] <whiprush> Yagisan: yeah, detroit.
[05:05] <Yagisan> bddebian: that is laughably funny
[05:05] <ajmitch> bddebian: hello
[05:05] <bddebian> Yagisan: Oh yea and DNS was a wreck
[05:05] <Yagisan> whiprush: well, I can do external testing for you
[05:05] <bddebian> ajmitch: I finished up Dapper for ya ;-P
[05:06] <ajmitch> bddebian: good
[05:06] <ajmitch> bddebian: now get to work on dapper+1 kthx
[05:06] <bddebian> Heh
[05:06] <ajmitch> ouch
[05:06] <bddebian> ajmitch: Got a lappy yet?
[05:06] <ajmitch> UVF in < 1 week
[05:06] <ajmitch> 118 merges
[05:06] <Yagisan> ajmitch: dapper was released early yesterday - they decided it was good enough ;)
[05:06] <bddebian> ajmitch: 118 to go?
[05:06] <ajmitch> bddebian: maybe
[05:07] <LaserJock> seems like the syncs are taking a while
[05:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: still not done?
[05:09] <ajmitch> hm
[05:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I don't know but have your zope syncs gone through?
[05:10] <Yagisan> ajmitch: will plone break when I dist-upgrade to dapper
[05:10] <Yagisan> ajmitch: oh - I figured out what the plone error was
[05:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I got back from my parent's place only a few minutes ago
[05:10] <ajmitch> Yagisan: it shouldn't break\
[05:10] <Yagisan> ajmitch: first install only plone-site
[05:10] <ajmitch> no zope syncs done :(
[05:11] <Yagisan> ajmitch: then as root run dzhandle and change addon mode to all
[05:11] <Yagisan> ajmitch: then install plone
[05:11] <Yagisan> ajmitch: suddenly everything works perfectly
[05:12] <ajmitch> right
[05:12] <ajmitch> makes sense
[05:15] <LaserJock> is there any general rule of thumb as to how long a long description in debian/control can be?
[05:16] <bddebian> No more than two pages. ;-P
[05:16] <tritium> bddebian: hey old friend
[05:17] <bddebian> tritium!!  How ya been?
[05:17] <LaserJock> I'm taking over this debian ITP an the guy put every feature the program has in the long description
[05:17] <tritium> bddebian: not bad.  Yourself?
[05:17] <bddebian> Busy :-(
[05:17] <ajmitch> hi tritium
[05:18] <tritium> hi ajmitch :)
[05:18] <LaserJock> it's like a family reunion in here ;-)
[05:19] <bddebian> ACK, WTF happened to /etc/pbuilder??
[05:19] <tritium> bddebian: since we talked last I've moved twice, bought a new house, put my old one on the market, moved myself from one house to the other, had my in-laws move in with us, and bought a truck
[05:19] <bddebian> tritium: Yikes :-)
[05:20] <tritium> heh, and work has me busy as hell.  Turns out I had more time in grad school, which I never would have believed going through it.
[05:20] <bddebian> tritium: Heh, I know that feeling
[05:20] <tritium> glad to see you again
[05:21] <bddebian> Shit.  Do I need to do breezy --> dapper pbuilder like I did for warty->breezy of can I just build a straight dapper one?
[05:21] <bddebian> tritium: Aye, me too
[05:23] <whiprush> ajmitch: happen to know david nusinow's irc nick? (the debian X guy)
[05:26] <minghua> whiprush: David's nick is gravity
[05:27] <whiprush> minghua: thanks
[05:29] <bddebian> OK, debootstrap is complaining about dapper??
[05:31] <LaserJock> bddebian: I thought that was fixed but I think I upgraded my breezy pbuilder
[05:34] <bddebian> Hmm, it doesn't like breezy either
[05:34] <bddebian> Failes getting the Release file
[05:34] <bddebian> Fails even
[05:36] <bddebian> Hmm, ajmitch doesn't love me anymore :'-(
[05:36] <ajmitch> I won't if you say silly things like that
[05:37] <ajmitch> see, someone loves you
[05:37] <bddebian> Thanks Kyral :-)
[05:37] <Kyral> in a purely friendship way of course
[05:38] <bddebian> Oh damn.. ;-P
[05:39] <bddebian> Bah, what a dope
[05:39] <LaserJock> ok, so if I am installing a python program I put everything in binary-indep and not binary-arch right?
[05:39] <bddebian> Helps when you have the right MIRRORSITE
[05:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: doh! ;-)
[05:40] <Kyral> lol
[05:41] <bddebian> Damn, I forgot that's why I ran away.. My stupidity.. :-)
[05:41] <Kyral> lol
[05:42] <ajmitch> right
[05:43] <bddebian> Oh yeah, and ajmitch's hatred of me..
[05:43] <ajmitch> of course, since it's clearly evident that I just despise bddebian
[05:44] <bddebian> :-*
[05:46] <Kyral> You know you use Emacs too much when you use aways like mine
[05:47] <bddebian> Tell me of this Emacs of which you speak? ;-)
[05:47] <Kyral> www.gnu.org ;P
[05:47] <ajmitch> bddebian: if you're bored, could you fix https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=1517 for me please?
[05:49] <bddebian> No because I can't login to that page :-)
[05:49] <ajmitch> guest login should be available
[05:52] <bddebian> ajmitch: Bah, who cares about Acer laptops? :-)
[05:52] <LaserJock> hmm, should a python app have its .py removed when it is intalled into /usr/bin/ ?
[05:55] <bddebian> Gawd, I feel like I have forgotten everything :'-(
[06:00] <LaserJock> what's the best way to move files around from within debian/rules? does mv suffice?
[06:07] <Kyral> LaserJock: you mean like to usr/share?
[06:07] <bddebian> LaserJock: Depends on how it's build I think.  You can use dh_movefiles iirc
[06:08] <ajmitch> bddebian: don't use that one
[06:09] <bddebian> Hmm
[06:09] <bddebian> Guess I should have attended your MOTU class eh? :-)
[06:09] <ajmitch> why? I didn't say anything important
[06:09] <bddebian> I doubt that.  EVERYTHING you say is important :-)
[06:12] <LaserJock> ok so I want to strip the .py off the apps excecutable in /usr/bin/
[06:12] <LaserJock> and rename it a bit otherwise, i.e. GaussSum.py to gausssum
[06:14] <ajmitch> so use mv in the appropriate place
[06:15] <ajmitch> dh_install will not rename files or dirs
[06:16] <LaserJock> ajmitch: are you sighing at me?
[06:16] <bddebian> poor ajmitch
[06:18] <ajmitch> no, I'm sighing at one of my packages just not building
[06:18] <ajmitch> mono changes, it seems
[06:29] <bddebian> Well gang, good to chat with you again.  Time for this old fool to head to bed.
[06:31] <ajmitch> bye bddebian
[06:31] <Yagisan> goodnight bddebian
[06:31] <crimsun> cya bddebian
[06:32] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[06:32] <ajmitch> hi crimsun
[06:34] <bddebian> Hi crimsun, bye crimsun :-)
[06:34] <bddebian> WIth luck I'll see you gents tomorrow :-)
[06:35] <crimsun> heya ajmitch
[06:37] <ajmitch> 1 down, 4 to go
[06:37] <Kyral> Goodnight MOTU
[06:37] <ajmitch> & 3 for NEW, eventually
[06:37] <ajmitch> night Kyral
[06:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not understanding dh_install. If I just use cp I have to cp to $(CURDIR)/debian/gausssum/usr/share/doc/ but with dh_install I just install to /usr/share/doc
[06:38] <LaserJock> cya Kyral
[06:41] <womble> LaserJock: dh_install does the path prepending for you.
[06:42] <LaserJock> womble: oh, well that's nice
[06:43] <LaserJock> is there any preference between dh_install, install, and cp ?
[06:45] <womble> for moving things from debian/tmp to debian/pkg, people usually use dh_install, although for getting things from your source tree to debian/tmp, either make install or cp is usually preferred.
[06:46] <womble> One thing that irritates me about dh_install, though, is that it doesn't give a clear indication of when you've left something out
[06:46] <LaserJock> what's the difference between debian/tmp and debian/pkg ?
[06:46] <womble> I've never gotten --list-missing to work for me
[06:46] <womble> debian/tmp is the usual location for everything to go into, then you move stuff to debian/<pkg>, where <pkg> is all of your binary packages
[06:47] <womble> For single-binary source packages, you can usually get away with sticking everything straight into debian/<pkg>
[06:48] <minghua> womble: why? --list-missing and -fail-missing have been working greatly for me
[06:49] <minghua> I use a simple <package>.install system, of course
[06:50] <LaserJock> hmm, is there a way to watch the build process. I get really confused because I don't know what it is going on when I build the packages?
[06:52] <LaserJock> so how would you install everything in a directory using install?
[06:53] <Mithrandir> install /wherever/* /somewhere/else ?
[06:54] <LaserJock> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[06:56] <womble> minghua: If I know why it didn't work, I'd fix it.  <grin>
[07:18] <\sh> moins
[07:21] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[07:21] <\sh> hey ajmitch
[07:23] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[07:24] <\sh> well...I have an appointment tomorrow with the federal employment office
[07:25] <ajmitch> oh?
[07:25] <\sh> it's normall when you are jobless to go there:)
[07:25] <\sh> s/normall/normal/
[07:26] <ajmitch> right :)
[07:26] <\sh> ajmitch: what should we do to remove joey hess name from all his packages which are not bit identical to his debian packages?
[07:27] <crimsun> TB issue for later this morning
[07:28] <\sh> oh when is tb meeting?
[07:28] <\sh> 20ytc
[07:28] <\sh> utc even
[07:28] <crimsun> yep
[07:29] <\sh> hmm..it's missing on the agenda :)
[07:29] <ajmitch> it'll be every package, of course
[07:29] <crimsun> heh
[07:30] <\sh> I wrote him, that he has to inform ubuntu-devel and/or matt as well
[07:30] <crimsun> I don't know why he's being polemic
[07:30] <crimsun> I can understand being irritated at some set of changes
[07:30] <\sh> as I wrote in my other mail: animal farm syndrome
[07:31] <\sh> and that is no insult..it's quite my view about all this
[07:31] <crimsun> I mean obviously his code is 100% bug-free, so he has the right to dictate what others can do with his code?
[07:31] <\sh> crimsun: then he should not release it under gpl
[07:33] <\sh> (regarding his sourcecodes.......not his packages)
[07:43] <Yagisan> \sh: crimsun: are you still reading that horseshit on d-d ?
[07:44] <\sh> Yagisan: I was reading joeys mail to ubuntu-motu...which is no horseshit, but quite serious
[07:45] <Yagisan> \sh: that was also sent to d-d
[07:45] <\sh> Yagisan: yes.. I know, I'm reading as well the mail headers :)
[07:46] <Yagisan> \sh: it is horseshit, I'd expect him to know his choice of license by now, but it's people like him, why I lost interest in debian
[07:48] <minghua> well, Joey Hess is a very reasonable person from my experience
[07:48] <\sh> Yagisan: well...the gpl doesn't forbid that. If I release one source under the GPL license, I have the right to relicense it for a special distributor and implement something like "This distributor is not allowed to distribute my work"
[07:49] <\sh> distribute means: shipping it on cd or have it in the repositories...
[07:49] <crimsun> even reasonable people fly off the handle/deep end at times
[07:49] <crimsun> I'm willing to ignore his polemics for the sake of the distributions
[07:49] <Yagisan> \sh: that is no longer gpl then
[07:50] <\sh> but anyways, it's a serious threat and we need a solution.
[07:50] <Yagisan> minghua: are you sure ???
[07:50] <\sh> Yagisan: then it's not GPL for the distributor anymore, for the rest it's still gpl
[07:51] <Yagisan> \sh: Is he really dumb enough to make his work fail his own DFSG tests ?
[07:52] <minghua> Yagisan: yes, his words are sometimes quite harsh, but in my opinion he is quite resonable
[07:52] <minghua> Yagisan: and I don't see anything wrong with his request this time
[07:53] <\sh> Yagisan: I don't know and I don't care. I care about ubuntu, and that's all. He is quite serious about it, and we should discuss his wish. Despite the fact that it's immature.
[07:57] <\sh> bbl
[07:57] <slomo_> siretart: ping?
[08:07] <dholbach> good morning
[08:08] <Yagisan> dholbach: I see you haven't read you email yet ;)
[08:08] <dholbach> Yagisan: what are you referring to?
[08:09] <Yagisan> dholbach: Mr hess give \sh some stress on ubuntu-motu or d-d
[08:09] <Yagisan> s/give/giving
[08:10] <dholbach> He's giving everybody stress and not the first time. :(
[08:11] <Yagisan> I really don't understand why they hate ubuntu so much
[08:11] <Yagisan> they don't do it for other distros
[08:11] <dholbach> Yes, they don't.
[08:11] <dholbach> Or not in that way.
[08:11] <dholbach> Thanks for bringing my attention to it. I'll look through the posts again.
[08:12] <dholbach> I'm just too busy to get myself into a flamewar for nothing.
[08:12] <crimsun> whether "they" hate "us" or not is irrelevant, though. I personally lack the time and the energy to bother responding to such inflammatory stuff.
[08:12] <dholbach> So if there's anything valid to answer to, I will do that.
[08:12] <dholbach> dapper-changes@ and gnome-ftp-list@ might give you an idea, what's to do for me :)
[08:16] <Yagisan> crimsun: I have the time, and energy, but I just vote with my feet. They seem far less professional now to me.
[08:16] <pef> good morning !
[08:19] <pef> what's can makes a package present in Debian not present in Ubuntu ?
[08:19] <pef> like feedparser
[08:20] <pef> http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/feedparser.html
[08:22] <crimsun> it's in Ubuntu
[08:22] <crimsun> it just has ftbfs
[08:23] <pef> so all ftbfs packages aren't show on http://packages.ubuntu.com ? the only way to find them is to inspect buildd logs ?
[08:23] <crimsun> that's correct
[08:23] <crimsun> note that's one of the cited changes for 4.1-1
[08:24] <crimsun> #348211
[08:24] <crimsun> when it's synced, it'll be available as a binary in dapper
[08:26] <pef> ok, does the sync will be made before uvf ? because it brokes a package
[08:26] <crimsun> I don't know if autosync will be triggered RSN
[08:27] <pef> ok, so I have to keep an eye on it :)
[08:27] <pef> thanks for the info
[08:27] <pef> another question on launchpad, about bugs assignements
[08:28] <pef> if I will correct the bug right now assignee to me, if not, assignee to correct team (motu, kubuntu, ...), is it correct ?
[08:30] <crimsun> sure
[08:31] <slomo_> Yagisan: what happened to the x264 package?
[08:32] <Yagisan> slomo_: where ? Is it missing ??
[08:33] <slomo_> Yagisan: was it already uploaded? :)
[08:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1429
[08:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: I did a new upstream
[08:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: been to busy to fix it to become shared libs
[08:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: but I found instructions somewhere
[08:34] <slomo_> Yagisan: is it ok now?
[08:34] <Yagisan> slomo_: well I use it often
[08:34] <Yagisan> slomo_: I rebuild mplayer in breezy to use it
[08:34] <slomo_> but it's still static library only?
[08:35] <Yagisan> slomo_: in that package yes. I was looking in the avidemux forums and the had some notes on how to make it shared, but sorry -ENOTIME :(
[08:36] <slomo_> Yagisan: hm ok :/ then let's do it for dapper+1
[08:37] <Yagisan> slomo_: might be better actually - the new x264 package worked better then my first one
[08:37] <Yagisan> slomo_: is the a list of what is synced from apt-get.org ?
[08:37] <Yagisan> s/the/their
[08:37] <slomo_> hm ask dholbach :)
[08:38] <dholbach> not yet.
[08:38] <dholbach> I'll work on it for Feature Freeze.
[08:39] <Yagisan> thanks.
[08:47] <pef> .nick pef_aw
[08:47] <pef_aw> oops :)
[08:48] <dholbach> Yagisan: you want your repo to be include by the apt-get.org import rather than the REVU way?
[08:50] <Yagisan> dholbach: I send stuff to revu, to help me make a better package
[08:50] <dholbach> yeah, that's the way.
[08:50] <dholbach> cool.
[08:51] <dholbach> see you
[09:05] <viviersf> ajmitch, ping
[09:25] <viviersf> why would a package say this : cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/etc/': No such file or directory
[09:26] <viviersf> when you try to build it
[09:32] <crimsun> viviersf: because it doesn't exist? Make sure the directory is created first
[09:33] <viviersf> crimsun,
[09:33] <viviersf> when i make that dir
[09:33] <viviersf> and build
[09:33] <viviersf> it gets removed
[09:33] <crimsun> viviersf: no, you'd create the directory immediately before you cp something there
[09:34] <crimsun> viviersf: otherwise, look at install(1)
[09:35] <viviersf> i dont use that directory
[09:35] <viviersf> its not even in the makefile
[09:36] <viviersf> wait look here
[09:36] <viviersf> if test -x /usr/bin/dh_installlogcheck; then dh_installlogcheck -pimpi-default-settings ; fi
[09:36] <viviersf> dh_installchangelogs -pimpi-default-settings
[09:36] <viviersf> dh_install -pimpi-default-settings
[09:36] <viviersf> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/etc/': No such file or directory
[09:36] <viviersf> dh_install: command returned error code 256
[09:36] <viviersf> 
[09:36] <viviersf> its after the files and stuff
[09:39] <minghua> viviersf: is there a debian/impi-default-settings.install file?
[09:39] <minghua> or debian/impi-default-settings.dirs?
[09:40] <viviersf> hold
[09:41] <viviersf> this is there -> debian/impi-default-settings.install
[09:41] <minghua> is there anything like etc/... in it?
[09:41] <viviersf> yep
[09:41] <ajmitch> viviersf: hello
[09:41] <viviersf> tmp/etc
[09:41] <viviersf> /tmp/usr
[09:41] <viviersf> etc etc
[09:41] <viviersf> - the /
[09:42] <viviersf> ajmitch, trying to get this package compiled
[09:43] <minghua> it has tmp/etc in it?
[09:43] <viviersf> lemme paste
[09:43] <viviersf> its 3 lines
[09:43] <minghua> and you don't have debian/tmp/etc after build?
[09:44] <viviersf> debian/tmp/etc/
[09:44] <viviersf> debian/tmp/usr/bin
[09:44] <viviersf> debian/tmp/usr/share
[09:44] <viviersf> nope
[09:45] <viviersf> i dont think it reads the .install file
[09:45] <crimsun> that's install? Each line should have 2 fields, then.
[09:45] <viviersf> that file
[09:45] <viviersf> come strait out of kubuntu-default-settings
[09:45] <minghua> well, looks to me a pretty broken .install file
[09:46] <minghua> crimsun: it's okay to have only one file in .install file
[09:46] <viviersf> minghua,
[09:46] <viviersf> it all worked until
[09:46] <viviersf> i renamed the dir to impi-default-settings
[09:47] <viviersf> see
[09:47] <viviersf> i rename it
[09:47] <viviersf> to kubuntu-default-settings
[09:47] <viviersf> and it compiles
[09:47] <viviersf> like wth
[09:47] <viviersf> what file specifies which .install to use
[09:48] <crimsun> do you have any references to kubuntu-default-settings in debian/* ?
[09:49] <minghua> you have dh_install -pimpi-default-settings
[09:49] <minghua> which means it will use impi-default-settings.install
[09:51] <viviersf> no crimsun
[09:51] <viviersf> minghua, i know that
[09:51] <viviersf> but i wants to use kubuntu one
[09:52] <crimsun> viviersf: is the diff.gz posted anywhere?
[09:52] <crimsun> (link to orig.tar.gz would be helpful, too)
[09:55] <viviersf> nope crimsun
[09:55] <viviersf> there is no diff
[09:55] <viviersf> im just using stuff from his package to make a new one
[09:56] <ajmitch> it's probably a native package (for a good reason, too)
[09:56] <ajmitch> can you put this source package somewhere that we can look at it?
[09:56] <viviersf> erm
[09:56] <viviersf> lemme try
[09:56] <viviersf> our server aint up yet
[09:56] <ajmitch> ah
[09:57] <viviersf> ajmitch, can i email it to you ?
[09:58] <ajmitch> sure
[09:58] <ajmitch> ubuntu.com email address
[09:59] <viviersf> ajmitch@ubuntu.com ?
[09:59] <ajmitch> yes
[09:59] <viviersf> k
[09:59] <viviersf> err no
[09:59] <viviersf> that not gonna work
[10:00] <viviersf> its 20 mb big
[10:00] <viviersf> omw
[10:00] <viviersf> ah wait
[10:02] <viviersf> ajmitch, its on its way
[10:02] <viviersf> internet is just slow
[10:02] <ajmitch> heh
[10:02] <ajmitch> don't worry, I'm busy uploading packages at the moment, so I'm heavily lagged
[10:03] <viviersf> kk
[10:03] <viviersf> me to
[10:03] <viviersf> line has contention :(
[10:03] <viviersf> i gonna go get food quick
[10:03] <viviersf> brb
[10:03] <ajmitch> ok
[10:09] <siretart> slomo_: pong
[10:09] <siretart> morning, folks
[10:09] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[10:10] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[10:13] <\sh> hey siretart
[10:13] <\sh> btw...I added joeys request to the TB Agenda with a link to ubuntu-motu archives of his post
[10:14] <crimsun> that entire thread on d-d is just useless
[10:15] <siretart> huhu \sh
[10:15] <siretart> \sh: joeys request?
[10:15] <crimsun> 'morn', siretart
[10:15] <siretart> hey daniel!
[10:15] <\sh> siretart: didn't you read his mail (cc to ubuntu-motu?)
[10:15] <\sh> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000139.html
[10:15] <siretart> \sh: I was at 'our' regulars table, and am currently catching up with the emails
[10:16] <\sh> siretart: hehe :)
[10:16] <ajmitch> siretart: yes, I was away for only 4 days & suddenly have this massive flood of emails when I returned
[10:16] <siretart> ah, I see
[10:17] <ajmitch> ah, stupid me
[10:17] <siretart> ajmitch: yes, there was really a lot of really exiting discussion about collaboration wrt ubuntu on the debian side
[10:17] <siretart> and on the ubuntu side as well, of course
[10:17] <ajmitch> yes, maybe something will come of it
[10:17] <StevenK> ajmitch: So, I added myself to the Ubuntu dev list - do I get accepted, and then ask to be made a MOTU?
[10:17] <\sh> StevenK: are you already a member?
[10:17] <siretart> StevenK: ubuntu-dev and motu is basically the same
[10:17] <ajmitch> StevenK: no, they're one & the same
[10:18] <StevenK> Right.
[10:19] <StevenK> dcut ftp-master rm \*
[10:19] <ajmitch> dcut ftp-master rm pnet*
[10:19] <ajmitch> was what I wanted :)
[10:20] <ajmitch> now I go back & re-sign these packages with the *non-revoked* key
[10:20] <ajmitch> oh well
[10:20] <ajmitch> maybe I'll retry tomorrow :)
[10:24] <\sh> to be honest, I think it's time for a global solution, how this is all handled. those trench warfares is no good for both sides, and if we find a clear and for all good solution. Otherwise, speaking of myself, I'll step back from all duties. I'm really sick and tired of this whole sh*t. Collabrotion is good, but the animal farm syndrome of some people is not good.
[10:24] <siretart> \sh: please. don't threaten with stepping down. lets search for a solution instead
[10:25] <siretart> \sh: others are equally frustrated with this discussion
[10:25] <siretart> StevenK: what do you gain with that?
[10:25] <StevenK> Which is a moot point at the moment, considering my @u.c address doesn't work yet.
[10:26] <\sh> siretart: i'm not threatening. It has nothing to do with ubuntu or motu at all. It's my thinking of how I can do work without being careful.
[10:26] <StevenK> siretart: I might lose a death threat, since I'm not advertising I'm a Ubuntu member.
[10:26] <siretart> \sh: you are. and the problem is not new.
[10:27] <lucas> hi motus
[10:27] <StevenK> And does anyone need any help with merges?
[10:27] <siretart> StevenK: are the flamewars on debian-private really that bad?
[10:27] <\sh> siretart: then it's time to make it real.
[10:27] <ajmitch> siretart: we cannot confirm nor deny anything about debian-private :)
[10:27] <siretart> ajmitch: I know ;)
[10:27] <dholbach> \sh: Don't get yourself depressed with this. It's 'some' people, a lot of others work with us quite nicely.
[10:28] <StevenK> siretart: Yup.
[10:28] <siretart> StevenK: :(
[10:28] <lucas> \sh: siretart: let's write documents about Ubuntu and Debian so DDs understand us better
[10:28] <StevenK> It's the loud-mouthed three that make it suck for the rest of us.
[10:28] <lucas> I really think *communication* is the way to go
[10:28] <StevenK> Thomas Bushnell just can't keep his mouth shut.
[10:29] <ajmitch> StevenK: oh I just give up on reading those threads, or those lists at times
[10:30] <crimsun> I hate to put it this way, but the only thing that matters with regard to that flamewar is that the collaboration is way more important than any flaming by any upstanding member of either community. Sometimes I thank $somePower that /everyone/ dies.
[10:31] <ajmitch> the collaboration will go ahead, even with the flames
[10:32] <\sh> dholbach: I'm not depressing myself with this.
[10:32] <\sh> dholbach: lets find a solution for that, this evening during TB..let's discuss joeys request, and see how we can deal with this.
[10:32] <dholbach> \sh: You're pondering stepping back. That's a sign of depression to me. Don't let it get that far, please.
[10:34] <crimsun> \sh: think of it this way: Ubuntu users are important, and we're all (including "those" DDs) doing something positive toward that end
[10:37] <\sh> dholbach: it's a sign that i'm too old for this kind of early ninties distro wars. and it can't be vital for us all, that those problems arise every now and then.
[10:37] <siretart> \sh: stepping back is not the right answer to that, imo
[10:38] <dholbach> I think crimsun has some valid points and it's all about the view you have on it: if you look at Debian and Ubuntu and it's just "flamewar, spite and trouble" for you (not only you, \sh), there's a problem. :)
[10:40] <ajmitch> times like this I feel like just ignoring the lists altogether & just doing some work
[10:40] <crimsun> yep
[10:42] <\sh> dholbach: so let's discuss a solution where we find a way to solve all this once and for all. It's dangerous as well for the reputation of Ubuntu (IMHO)
[10:42] <dholbach> But let's not do this now. Let's all think about it and do it in a meeting.
[10:43] <dholbach> Maybe even a meeting where we invite Debian folks to.
[10:43] <dholbach> Maybe we should have a meeting beforehand, I don't know.
[10:43] <dholbach> Let's make this all public on the mailing list.
[10:43] <\sh> dholbach: we have to discuss joeys request during the TB...I think it's more then fair. he made a claim, and we should respect this.
[10:44] <\sh> well...I think there are more people coming then and request their name removal anyways.
[10:45] <lucas> I think we should calm down and communicate, for example in a wiki article
[10:45] <lucas> so the average opinion of ubuntu for DDs improves
[10:45] <lucas> the main problem is the official claim that Ubuntu contributes back to Debian
[10:45] <lucas> we know it's not as true as we would like it to be
[10:46] <lucas> other CDDs don't contribute at all (think of Linspire)
[10:46] <lucas> and no DD complain
[10:46] <lucas> (and I don't think they changed the Maintainer field at all)
[10:46] <lifeless> thats not quite true
[10:46] <lifeless> linspire was mentioned in the d-d thread
[10:46] <lifeless> so, IMO the right thing to do is to ask for 'debian' to make a freaking decision
[10:47] <lifeless> right now there is no consensus on the maintainer field
[10:47] <lifeless> some want it changed
[10:47] <lifeless> some dont
[10:47] <lucas> before asking them to make a decision, we have to *explain* our position
[10:47] <lifeless> ask debian to take a vote and make it policy what derivate distros should do
[10:47] <viviersf> ajmitch,  you get the file ?
[10:47] <ajmitch> viviersf: yes
[10:47] <lifeless> our position is irrelevant
[10:47] <lifeless> yes we are prominent
[10:47] <lifeless> and yes we are trying to do the Right Thing
[10:47] <viviersf> ajmitch, found the problem ?
[10:48] <\sh> lucas: contributing back doesn't mean giving back. it means, we create something, and everybody (with a special preference to debian) is invited to take it. I don't see "contributing back" as "giving back something on a silver plate". But it should be possible to do it in a way, where everyone is agreeing.
[10:48] <lifeless> but debian has -no- policy on this at the moment, so the Right Thing is purely a judgement call
[10:48] <lucas> lifeless: most DDs don't understand how Ubuntu works, currently
[10:48] <lifeless> if 'debian' wants to tear a strip of ubuntu, it has to stop it being a judgement call and make it policy
[10:48] <lucas> \sh: some DDs understand it as giving back, that's the problem
[10:49] <ajmitch> viviersf: trying something..
[10:49] <lifeless> \sh: contributing to the commons is 'create something and whoever wants takes it'
[10:50] <lifeless> \sh: we do create stuff *and* feed it into debian - such as the gcc4 transition etc etc etc
[10:50] <lifeless> \sh: but we dont 'push' in everything we do
[10:50] <ajmitch> and many DDs don't consider it a contribution unless it's filed as an attached patch in the BTS, nicely commented & split out
[10:50] <Treenaks> lifeless: transitions we do in a week take 1.5 years in debian
[10:51] <lifeless> ajmitch: which is their blindness IMO.
[10:51] <lifeless> Treenaks: yes, but we have different constraints.
[10:51] <\sh> lifeless: yes. the problem is not where DDs and Ubuntu Core Devs are the same person (like doko :)) The problem I see is, that we can't talk to any maintainer, especially not when one MOTU or somebody else is touching 100, 200 packages
[10:51] <lifeless> \sh: note that I dont *think we should push everything*
[10:52] <Treenaks> lifeless: sure, but it does tell you how interested DDs are in their own packages and/or Debian as a whole
[10:52] <\sh> lifeless: I read it the correct way :)
[10:52] <lifeless> some things - like gcc4 are appropriate to take leadership on, others - like individual package patches, well its a interpersonal thing not a project wide thing
[10:52] <Treenaks> lifeless: if every DD cared, the transition would be done in a few months at most
[10:52] <ajmitch> \sh: but that's because the debian model is what they expect - that a single person touches a small number of packages
[10:52] <lifeless> Treenaks: no, thats not it
[10:53] <lifeless> Treenaks: its simply people to talk too
[10:53] <\sh> ajmitch: yes, but we are not touching the packages because of debian, we are touching the packages because of ubuntu, and not all patches and changes are important for debian (right now)
[10:53] <lifeless> Treenaks: when we organise a 4 person sprint, it takes - oh 1 day to setup
[10:53] <lifeless> when we organise a 100 person sprint it takes about 6 months
[10:53] <lifeless> debian has 800 people to organise for any transition
[10:54] <Treenaks> lifeless: yes. every one of them is subscribed to an -announce mailinglist. You send an email stating the transition is due in 2 months, and NMU if they don't upload
[10:54] <Treenaks> lifeless: problem solved
[10:54] <lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDemystification
[10:54] <Treenaks> but no, NMUs are taboo and the developer is holy
[10:54] <dholbach> see the recent "patch to fix ftbfs, but no action taken for 300 days" thread. That's not a snide remark, but it shows a problem in there.
[10:54] <lucas> can we brainstorm about what need to be in there ?
[10:54] <Treenaks> uh developer/package connection is sacred
[10:55] <lucas> also I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianCollaboration as a frontend to debian-related stuff on the wiki
[10:55] <ajmitch> Treenaks: not necessarily
[10:55] <\sh> dholbach: where is this thread?
[10:55] <dholbach> debian-devel@
[10:55] <Treenaks> dholbach: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00349.html and on?
[10:56] <\sh> Treenaks: that's the holy war right now :)
[10:56] <dholbach> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg01079.html
[10:57] <ajmitch> lucas: why did you link to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/motu-debian ?
[10:57] <lucas> because it's related to the topic ?
[10:57] <dholbach> motu-debian? what's that?
[10:57] <lucas> I found it during my related-works search ;)
[10:57] <ajmitch> dholbach: it was a proposed discussion for UBZ
[10:57] <dholbach> Ah, yes.
[10:58] <ajmitch> which is an empty spec
[10:58] <ajmitch> Treenaks: seen http://wiki.debian.org/LowThresholdNmu ?
[10:58] <Treenaks> ajmitch: that's voluntary
[10:58] <Treenaks> ajmitch: it should be policy
[10:58] <ajmitch> why?
[10:59] <viviersf> k thx ajmitch
[10:59] <Treenaks> ajmitch: because the current package ownership model hasn't scaled well
[11:00] <ajmitch> Treenaks: I don't think that open-season on NMUs for everyone will necessarily work well either
[11:01] <\sh> ajmitch: do you think the reports I filed into dbts are worth for the packagemaintainers? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=sh@sourcecode.de
[11:01] <Treenaks> ajmitch: I just gave up on Debian personally... so I don't care either way..
[11:01] <Treenaks> ajmitch: As long as Ubuntu rocks (which, I know, depends: Debian)
[11:02] <ajmitch> \sh: attached debdiffs are good, saying that something will be available in a couple of hours from archive.ubuntu.com not so much :)
[11:02] <ajmitch> looks like most of them are patches, which is far better than I usually manage
[11:02] <lifeless> Treenaks: well it has scaled well
[11:03] <Treenaks> lifeless: 4-year release cycles prove that
[11:03] <lifeless> Treenaks: debian is slow moving, but the relative man power per package is much larger than our
[11:03] <lifeless> s
[11:03] <ajmitch> Treenaks: MOTUs can work well because we're a small team
[11:03] <\sh> ajmitch: libvisual has debdiffs python-qt3 has patches to upstream source qt-x11-free the immodule patch to fix the immodule patch is in the bugreport
[11:04] <ajmitch> Treenaks: the chaotic activity that we do doesn't scale as well to 1000+ developers
[11:06] <lifeless> ubuntu is geared towards small teams working with a range of skills, mentors + helpers in high intensity, short duration bursts
[11:06] <\sh> ajmitch: and the python-qt3-gl hint, is a simple fix for the maintainer :) so I think it's only good to give him a clue :)
[11:07] <lifeless> that means we *can* do 'break and fix' cycles
[11:07] <lifeless> debian is geared towards continuously having a good release ready
[11:07] <lifeless> more or less
[11:09] <lifeless> the individual maintainer there works well because - they dont need global coordination to do anything
[11:09] <lifeless> but the price is long cycles
[11:09] <lifeless> myself, I think debian is fine as is, because - I think debian should never really bother to release.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> lifeless: it's also a choice.  Debian doesn't want to have six month cycles.
[11:10] <lifeless> having sid, a cared for repo of the latest and greatest code, maintained on an ongoing basis is rad.
[11:10] <lifeless> Mithrandir: yup.
[11:10] <lifeless> Mithrandir: although, have we gr'd that ?
[11:11] <lifeless> ubuntus development versions are nowhere near as stable as sid IME.
[11:11] <ajmitch> "f-spot 0.1.7 - Dec 16 2006 - Boston"
[11:11] <ajmitch> hm
[11:11] <ajmitch> I must have got a really future release here :)
[11:12] <Mithrandir> lifeless: it's not been decided as such, no.  Except that the release team has posted a timeline which means ~18 months from sarge to etch.  I think that's fine.
[11:13] <\sh> ajmitch: when did you came back from your time-journey? :)
[11:13] <lifeless> Mithrandir: so do I
[11:14] <ajmitch> \sh: I am in NZ, far ahead of anyone else ;)
[11:14] <siretart> oops. wrong chan befer.. let's hope I didn't make the situation not even worse, with my post to -project..
[11:15] <\sh> siretart: you can't make it worse...it's worse enough.
[11:16] <lifeless> siretart: I think its a fine email
[11:16] <lucas> siretart: I really think we should start communicate instead of playing flamewars
[11:16] <lifeless> maybe a touch blunt
[11:16] <lifeless> but it raises the key point
[11:17] <siretart> ajmitch: it got CC'ed to -devel and ubuntu-motu
[11:18] <lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDemystification <= could we collaboratively write something like that before going on with the mail discussions ?
[11:19] <siretart> lucas: nice start
[11:24] <StevenK> ajmitch: Wanna hand?
[11:24] <ajmitch> StevenK: 25 of them are waiting on elmo to sync
[11:24] <StevenK> Ahhh.
[11:24] <ajmitch> the other 4 zope merges are simple
[11:25] <ajmitch> and I'll be kindly filing bugs in debian for those
[11:25] <ajmitch> since it's crucial that there be no divergence between debian & ubuntu there
[11:25] <ajmitch> qemu is FTBFS on anything but i386, in debian & ubuntu :)
[11:29] <siretart> great :/
[11:29] <siretart> well, I'm off for lunch. cu
[11:29] <ajmitch> bye siretart
[11:33] <ajmitch> 4 packages updated to latest upstream, 1 to go
[11:34] <ajmitch> it's great to see these RC bugs in debian being closed
[11:38] <viviersf> erm
[11:39] <viviersf> can one use a bash for loop in a Makefile ?
[11:40] <lifeless> yes
[11:40] <viviersf> :/
[11:40] <viviersf> as soon as i put it in the makefile
[11:40] <viviersf> it refuses to compile
[11:40] <viviersf> for x in `find artwork/CrystalClearImpi/ -type d`; do echo moo;done
[11:41] <ajmitch> heh, bzr viz shows a nice series of merges as I switched back & forth from desktop to laptop
[11:41] <viviersf> :/
[11:41] <ajmitch> lifeless: opensync still stuck in NEW, I see?
[11:41] <lifeless> ajmitch: yup
[11:44] <ajmitch> gar, bad build-deps on f-spot
[11:44] <lifeless> ajmitch: lol
[11:47] <ajmitch> it's a problem, since it needs a gtk# newer than sid has
[11:48] <viviersf> i wonder why it doesnt want to work with the bash loops :/
[11:52] <slomo_> siretart: i've updated mplayer to a new cvs snapshot... do you want to test it before i upload?
[11:56] <crimsun> slomo_: I can if R isn't readily available
[12:13] <siretart> slomo_: I don't have time to test it right now, if crimsum wants to test, great, if not, go on with upload, we can fix afterwards
[12:13] <slomo_> siretart: ok, fine :) crimsun do you have amd64?
[12:14] <crimsun> slomo_: not as a desktop
[12:14] <siretart> slomo_: did you check in your changes in the motumedia svn?
[12:14] <siretart> slomo_: so that I can see the diff?
[12:16] <slomo_> siretart: not yet... will do after my final test ;) but i haven't changed anything except updating the patches and improving the "ubuntu branding" :) you'll see it in the diff later
[12:16] <StevenK> crimsun: Can you see if mkfontdir from Dapper SEGVs on it?
[12:17] <siretart> slomo_: just use it, even for testing purposes. Its really convinient..
[12:17] <crimsun> StevenK: sec
[12:21] <crimsun> StevenK: not here with this test case (copied /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/*, gunzipped and ran mkfontdir)
[12:21] <StevenK> crimsun: Check out jnethack's latest build logs for amd64.
[12:22] <crimsun> k
[12:22] <crimsun> oh, amd64? Hmm, I tested with ia32 (686)
[12:22] <crimsun> sec, running test case
[12:23] <slomo_> siretart: committed
[12:23] <crimsun> ok, that test case succeeds (no segv)
[12:25] <siretart> slomo_: I answered to that email
[12:25] <siretart> ++ao=also,oss,sdl,esd,arts
[12:25] <siretart> ?
[12:25] <slomo_> siretart: which mail?
[12:25] <siretart> to the commit mail, it went to tiber
[12:26] <slomo_> siretart: hehe, nice typo :) already fixed now ;)
[12:27] <siretart> as said, I find svn very convinient ;)
[12:27] <slomo_> siretart: oh no... you already had a ubuntu8 version there? damn...
[12:27] <slomo_> siretart: sorry, i only copied the files over there :/
[12:27] <slomo_> siretart: what did you change in ubuntu8?
[12:27] <siretart> err huh?
[12:28] <slomo_> siretart: look at the diff of the changelog ;)
[12:28] <siretart> slomo_: the archive has just ubuntu7, the ubuntu8 is work in progress
[12:30] <slomo_> siretart: ok... hmm, the svn->mail thingie doesn't work properly with my name ;)
[12:33] <siretart> slomo_: my changes should be documented in the svn log
[12:33] <crimsun> StevenK: hmm, is bdftopcf doing sane stuff?
[12:34] <siretart> slomo_: no, I just edited debian/changelog
[12:35] <slomo_> siretart: ok :) next time i'll be more carefull ;)
[12:37] <StevenK> crimsun: I'm not sure. :-)
[12:38] <StevenK> crimsun: It's only a problem on ia64 or amd64.
[12:38] <StevenK> crimsun: If you can give me a shell, I can debug. Or you can. :-)
[12:40] <crimsun> StevenK: well, I ran mkfontdir in win/X11, and mkfontdir generated a valid fonts.dir
[12:44] <crimsun> hmph. You're hitting #347842
[12:45] <StevenK> I see that.
[12:46] <StevenK> crimsun: So, which of us shall debug?
[12:46] <crimsun> StevenK: I don't control the amd64 host, unfortunately, else I'd give a shell
[12:47] <Mithrandir> StevenK: mail maswan@acc.umu.se asking for access to ravel, include ssh key and preferred username.  Please sign the mail.
[12:47] <crimsun> StevenK: however, when I removed the bdftopcf lines in debian/rules, it does build
[12:47] <crimsun> mkfontdir parses bdf files, so I'm not sure why bdftopcf is even called
[12:52] <StevenK> crimsun: Right, so noted.
[12:53] <StevenK> crimsun: If I prepare a ubuntu2 will you upload?
[12:54] <crimsun> StevenK:
[12:54] <crimsun> ack, sure
[12:54] <crimsun> StevenK: in sys/unix/Makefile.top, you can just kill the bdftopcf calls
[12:55] <StevenK> I was also killing the bdftopcf calls in debian/rules.
[01:10] <StevenK> crimsun: Can I just point to the .d{sc,iff.gz} ?
[01:11] <crimsun> StevenK: yep
[01:13] <StevenK> crimsun: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/jnethack
[01:13] <StevenK> crimsun: Please try building it on your amd64 first.
[01:13] <crimsun> StevenK: will do.
[01:29] <crimsun> StevenK: mkfontdir still segfaults (fixed up debian/rules), so #347842 still seems valid. Something more ominous is present, since it didn't appear last build.
[01:44] <crimsun> -> coffee
[01:45] <Yagisan> Seveas: ping
[01:46] <Treenaks> Does anyone know a CDBS python package?
[01:56] <dholbach> Treenaks: what are you looking for?
[01:56] <dholbach> Treenaks: a module or something that just 'uses' python?
[01:56] <Treenaks> dholbach: a python module packaged using CDBS
[01:57] <dholbach> Treenaks: kiwi
[01:57] <Treenaks> dholbach: so I can easily hack it into shape for my own python stuff ;)
[01:57] <Treenaks> dholbach: no package 'kiwi'
[01:57] <slomo_> Treenaks: paramiko
[01:58] <dholbach> Treenaks: it's at least in dapper
[01:58] <Treenaks> dholbach: ah.. this is my breezy server :)
[02:07] <Treenaks> isn't there something like dh-make-perl for python?
[02:07] <Treenaks> (dh-make-python?)
[02:11] <lucas> can somebody review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDemystification ?
[02:13] <ogra> lucas, 8400 packages in universe ?
[02:13] <lucas> $ mdt dist-grep-dctrl-sources dapper -F Section -s Package -n universe | wc -l
[02:13] <lucas> 8397
[02:13] <ogra> then we'd have 9000 in main
[02:13] <lucas> *source*
[02:13] <ogra> ah, yes, sorry
[02:13] <lucas> I'll fix it
[02:13] <lucas> thanks for seeing this
[02:14] <ogra> i dont understand what you mean with "tools"
[02:14] <lucas> during the last MOTU meeting, we quickly discussed a "database of divergence"
[02:14] <lucas> to be able to quickly determine the kind of divergence each package has
[02:15] <lucas> this would also help debian maintainers a lot
[02:15] <Yagisan> lucas: our way of contributing "sucks" because upstream hasn't yet worked out how it would like the patches (and if it wants them at all)
[02:16] <ogra> make: (Debian, of course, but also apt-get.org or  REVU)
[02:16] <Lathiat> lucas: hey that page is cool
[02:16] <ogra> (Debian, of course, but also apt-get.org or  REVU and others)
[02:16] <Lathiat> im going to be yakking to the debian miniconf about ubuntu/motu/interactions and stuff, bit of usefull info there altho largely what i had in mind
[02:16] <ogra> we might pull other sources on demand ...
[02:19] <ogra> in the third part i'm missing unresponsive DDs .... we often made changes to packages in the past because the DD didnt respond or stuff that users wanted wasnt accepted in debian ... (might be because of different policys or because the DD just didnt like)
[02:19] <Yagisan> lucas: might want to mention that non-motus help too
[02:19] <ogra> Yagisan++
[02:20] <Yagisan> G'day ogra
[02:20] <ogra> hey
[02:21] <Yagisan> ogra: I've been beating plone on breezy into shape http://eyagi.bpa.nu:8081/eyagi
[02:22] <Yagisan> ogra: going well so far
[02:22] <ogra> Yagisan, yeah, getting better :)#
[02:23] <Yagisan> ogra: doesn't ubuntu.com use plone ?
[02:24] <ogra> FOR THE WEBSITE STUFF, YES
[02:24] <ogra> oops
[02:24] <Yagisan> ogra: my ears are ringing
[02:24] <Yagisan> ogra: and of course, it runs on ubuntu right ?
[02:25] <ogra> Yagisan, indeed
[02:26] <StevenK> Yagisan: And that some upstreams want to be fed patches on a platter.
[02:26] <Yagisan> ogra: so, we'll be getting plone/zope sec updates quickly right ;)
[02:27] <ogra> Yagisan, quickly ?
[02:27] <Yagisan> StevenK: no, they are just being arses because they can
[02:27] <ogra> only security updates for released stuff ;)
[02:27] <Yagisan> ogra: you don't use your own packages :(
[02:28] <ogra> Yagisan, sure we do
[02:28] <StevenK> Yagisan: Potato, potatoe.
[02:28] <ogra> but we dont upgrade packages in releases if there isnt a dataloss bug/security reason
[02:29] <Yagisan> ogra: sure - but I'm not going to wait 3 days between USN and .deb arriving, right ?
[02:29] <ogra> unlikely
[02:29] <ogra> join the security team to make sure they appear in time ;)
[02:29] <ogra> pitti will be happy for every helper
[02:30] <Yagisan> ogra: Is that a job offer ;)
[02:30] <ogra> Yagisan, i dont give away jobs ... i'm not canonical HR ;)
[02:30] <Yagisan> ogra: I give pitti advance notice when I find something + patch if I can
[02:31] <lucas> ok, I integrated all your changes into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDemystification
[02:32] <slomo_> siretart: wonderfull... mplayer compiled fine everywhere :)
[02:32] <siretart> slomo_: cool :)
[02:33] <Yagisan> lucas: seems better now. BTW any of our other upstreams upset like debian ?
[02:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: with x264 ?
[02:33] <slomo_> siretart: and works fine at least for me, better than the previous version... h264 decoding works now as expected :)
[02:33] <Yagisan> slomo_: and libdts ?
[02:33] <slomo_> Yagisan: nope... we need to get your package approved before and i wanted to wait until we have a shared library of it... i hate static libraries ;)
[02:33] <slomo_> Yagisan: libdts support was there forever iirc
[02:34] <Yagisan> slomo_: never saw it in control
[02:34] <lucas> Yagisan: we don't really have other upstreams currently
[02:34] <siretart> slomo_: w00h00
[02:34] <lucas> apt-get.org can't really be considered an upstream
[02:34] <ogra> Yagisan, according to dholbach's feedback for the apt-get.org stuff, other upstreams are more than happy with use
[02:34] <ogra> lucas, why ?
[02:34] <slomo_> Yagisan: it's in control now ;P and "Checking for libdts support ... yes"
[02:34] <lucas> well, it's not a distribution
[02:35] <lucas> it's just a repository of repositories
[02:35] <Yagisan> lucas: irerelavent
[02:35] <ogra> lucas, is sourceforge a distribution ?
[02:35] <dholbach> lucas: It's people.
[02:35] <ogra> imho upstream == software developer ...
[02:35] <lucas> dholbach: did you contact maintainers on a package per package basis for apt-get.org ?
[02:35] <ogra> lucas, yes, he did
[02:35] <dholbach> lucas: yeah.
[02:35] <lucas> ok
[02:35] <Yagisan> ogra: that rules me out ...
[02:36] <lucas> ah
[02:36] <lucas> can somebody request the removal of ruby-gnuplot from universe ?
[02:36] <ogra> and there will be others in the future
[02:36] <lucas> I packaged it inside debian
[02:36] <lucas> so I'll be synced in 1 or 2 weeks
[02:36] <ogra> then you should just sync it
[02:36] <ogra> to late
[02:36] <lucas> the source pkg name changed
[02:36] <lucas> it's a new package
[02:36] <ogra> UVF is in two days
[02:36] <lucas> not an update
[02:37] <ogra> make sure to get it in *now*
[02:37] <lucas> it still has to go through NEW in debian
[02:37] <Yagisan> yes, sometimes kantonix ?? etc have intresting .debs
[02:37] <ogra> sivang, wannabe half a seb ?
[02:37] <sivang> ogra:  for starters yes :0
[02:37] <sivang> :-)
[02:38] <ogra> sivang, you'd have to cope with dholbach, he's already seb96 (and rising) ;)
[02:38] <dholbach> haha
[02:39] <sivang> ogra: yes I Know, he's exp'ing by the minute :)
[02:39] <Nafallo> we had seb{64,128,256,512,1024} on #ubuntu-desktop some minutes ago :-P
[02:41] <slomo_> siretart: i'm writing the mail to siggi now finally ;)
[02:42] <siretart> :)
[02:42] <ogra> lucas, you probably should also point out the "whi changed it last is responsible" rule, so DDs know whom to poke
[02:42] <ogra> s/whi/who
[02:43] <lucas> I'll add it to the short crash course at the bottom, ok ?
[02:43] <ogra> we should advertaise this a lot more, then the Maintainer/Uploaders discussion is pointless
[02:43] <ogra> yup
[02:44] <slomo_> ogra: does this rule also count if someone only uploads a rebuild against some new library or adjusts build-dependencies to fix compilation?
[02:44] <ogra> lets just try to make that rule more public ... it should clearify the discussion
[02:44] <ogra> slomo_, in the past it always counted
[02:45] <ogra> the changelong is the relevant part for ubuntu ... as the control file is it in debian
[02:45] <slomo_> ogra: ok :) and what about mass-rebuilds like for... say... cairo in the past? seb128 would be responsible for millions of packages back then
[02:45] <ogra> yup
[02:46] <tseng> doko would own all the c++ :)
[02:46] <ogra> he rebuilds only stuff in main ... and might know who will take care ...
[02:46] <ogra> yes, doko is an evil child ;)
[02:46] <ogra> he rebuilds the world for fun :)#
[02:47] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[02:48] <slomo_> or infinity who fixes stupid packaging bugs everywhere ;)
[02:48] <lucas> ogra/dholbach: I added a note about team-maintenance and changelog
[02:48] <ogra> great
[02:50] <ogra> we should probablky have a wikipage explaining the changelog rule a bit deeper, so we can link to it ...
[02:51] <Yagisan> Kyral: there there, it'll be ok. While debian is still arguing, and we keep releasing, they will be our downstream in no time ;)
[02:51] <Kyral> nah
[02:51] <ogra> you evil evil package !
[02:51] <Kyral> Another "VLC uses GTK 1" bug
[02:52] <Kyral> Malone 28753
[02:52] <Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'
[02:52] <Kyral> ...
[02:52] <slomo_> siretart: LP finally works for connecting packages and people/groups :) https://launchpad.net/people/motumedia/+packages
[02:53] <ogra> Kyral, why reject ?
[02:53] <Kyral> Because there is a reason
[02:53] <ogra> Kyral, isnt that fixed in dapper ?
[02:53] <Kyral> Yah
[02:53] <Kyral> but this is a breezy thing
[02:53] <ogra> so set it to fix released ;)
[02:53] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/28753
[02:53] <Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'
[02:54] <ogra> and point out the version that fixed it
[02:54] <slomo_> hmm, what happened to Ubugtu?
[02:54] <Kyral> hmm
[02:54] <Kyral> he said the Backport is usign GTK1
[02:54] <ogra> ah, backports ...
[02:55] <Mez> ... ?
[02:55] <Mez> backports?
[02:55] <Kyral> Personally I haven't used VLC since it got removed in a Dist-Upgrade
[02:55] <Kyral> nothing Mez, was just mentioning that the Bug Report mentioned VLC from Backports
[02:56] <Mez> ah - if it's a problem in bacports - poke it over to me
[02:56] <Kyral> I'm making sure it isn't a problem in Dapper first :P
[02:57] <slomo_> Kyral: what happened to spe?
[02:57] <Kyral> Mez you may want to backport the latest VLC...
[02:58] <Kyral> slomo_: Its very buggy?
[02:58] <Kyral> I mean it builds fine
[02:58] <Mez> kyral - we'll see what you get first - then post to the backports mailing list and we can take it from there
[02:58] <Kyral> but Lintian throws errors all over the place
[02:58] <Mez> what linitan errors?
[02:58] <slomo_> Kyral: hmm, can you upload it to revu?
[02:58] <slomo_> Kyral: i'll take a look then...
[02:58] <Kyral> Mez: that was to slomo ;P
[02:59] <Kyral> slomo_: yah, along with another package I have to do
[03:00] <Kyral> So if the Fix is in Dapper, set it to Fixed Release?
[03:02] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/28753
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'
[03:02] <Seveas> Yagisan, ping
[03:02] <Seveas> urgh.. ubugtu is broken again - they must have changed the layout
[03:02] <Seveas> @quit
[03:02] <Kyral> if the report looks wrong to anyone...feel free to change it
[03:05] <Yagisan> Seveas: pong
[03:06] <Seveas> Yagisan, you called a few hours ago :)
[03:06] <Seveas> well, an hour ago probably
[03:06] <Yagisan> Seveas: quite. pitti said you had an rss feed of the USN ?
[03:06] <Seveas> Yagisan, ubuntulinux.nl/files/usn.xml
[03:07] <Kyral> slomo_: Spe going into REVU
[03:08] <Kyral> Ignore the NMU stuff, I want to talk to doko about it
[03:08] <Yagisan> Seveas: thanks. perhaps it should be more prominent (I wonder why it's not from canonical though)
[03:08] <Yagisan> Seveas: google only gave me dead links earlier
[03:08] <Seveas> Yagisan, I suggested that a few times :)
[03:09] <Yagisan> Seveas: would you mind if I pull that feed on my website too ?
[03:09] <slomo_> Kyral: thanks
[03:09] <Kyral> thats streight from applying uupgrade to the old package
[03:09] <slomo_> Kyral: the patches applied without problems?
[03:10] <Kyral> no
[03:10] <slomo_> did you update them?
[03:10] <Kyral> I had to delete two from the debian/patches
[03:10] <Kyral> I have no idea what they were doing
[03:10] <slomo_> *sigh*
[03:10] <slomo_> then forget it :P i'll do it when i find some time ;)
[03:10] <Kyral> lol
[03:11] <slomo_> it's in the changelog what these patches do ;)
[03:11] <tepsipakki> anibal: ping
[03:11] <Kyral> 0.8.1d didn't even uupdate cleanly
[03:11] <Kyral> Oh I have an upstream who wants to know what the best way to apply internationalization is
[03:12] <ogra_> just make spe a metapackage that depends on pida ;)
[03:12] <Kyral> lol
[03:13] <Kyral> Oh if any MOTU would review laptoptemp it would be awesome :P
[03:13] <tepsipakki> kyral: where?
[03:13] <tepsipakki> oh
[03:14] <tepsipakki> sorry, you asked for a review, not test
[03:14] <Kyral> lol
[03:14] <tepsipakki> :)
[03:14] <Kyral> I'm running it on my laptop
[03:14] <Kyral> it works :D
[03:23] <Kyral> mmm, I hate having to rename a dir...
[03:24] <Kyral> then again this package didn't even have a directory lol
[03:36] <Kyral> hmm to use dh_install I just make a <packagename>.install file and call dh_install?
[03:40] <lucas> basically yes
[03:40] <lucas> but if your files are doc, examples, etc ...
[03:40] <lucas> use dh_installsthing instead
[03:47] <Kyral> nah
[03:47] <Kyral> this package is literally a .c + Makefile ;P
[03:47] <Kyral> I just put the <executable> /usr/bin in the installfile ;P
[04:34] <tepsipakki> ok, I'm now trying to make gtkpod-aac as promised.. but dpkg-gencontrol fails: error: source package has two conflicting values - gtkpod-aac and gtkpod
[04:36] <slomo_> you have to change the source package name in the changelog and control
[04:36] <tepsipakki> ah, the changelog too..
[04:36] <tepsipakki> I thought it was as easy as to only diff against control and rules ;)
[04:40] <tepsipakki> hmm what version should I use, the same as the gtkpod (-1ubuntu1) or -0ubuntu1, since debian doesn't have this?
[04:41] <slomo_> -0ubuntu1
[04:41] <slomo_> but be carefull with the replaces/conflicts/provides fields :)
[04:42] <tepsipakki> i only added a conflicts: gtkpod
[04:42] <tepsipakki> so far..
[04:43] <tepsipakki> there aren't any packages that depend on gtkpod, at least yet
[04:43] <slomo_> ok, fine then :)
[04:44] <Kyral> yo
[04:49] <tepsipakki> ok, it's ready
[04:50] <Kyral> slomo_: Mind looking at laptoptemp?
[04:57] <tepsipakki> hmm, could the gtkpod-aac source package use the same orig.tar.gz as gtkpod?
[04:59] <slomo_> sure
[04:59] <slomo_> with another filename but everything else can and should stay the same
[04:59] <tepsipakki> yes
[04:59] <tepsipakki> I get some errors when building the dsc
[05:00] <tepsipakki> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to ...
[05:01] <azeem> tepsipakki: to ... what?
[05:01] <tepsipakki> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to po/de.gmo: binary file contents changed
[05:01] <tepsipakki> etc
[05:01] <jamessan> tepsipakki: sounds like your clean target isn't cleaning everything
[05:02] <tepsipakki> oh crud, true
[05:02] <tepsipakki> it's the debian/gtkpod-aac/*
[05:06] <tepsipakki> I'll continue tomorrow :) ->
[08:12] <\sh> siretart: ping
[08:12] <\sh> ajmitch: ping
[08:14] <ajmitch> \sh: pong
[08:15] <\sh> ajmitch: I have to go out for a while...I don't know if I'm able to be back when the meetings starts. I wrote some points for discussion on the agenda page...if they need some things. More information can be found easily on d-d :)
[08:15] <\sh> ajmitch: only that you know :_
[08:15] <ajmitch> ok
[08:15] <\sh> ok...laters
[08:51] <StevenK> Waaah. Six hours of sleep.
[08:52] <Hobbsee> StevenK: sleep?  what's that?
[08:52] <raphink> lol
[08:53] <ajmitch> morning StevenK ;)
[08:53] <ajmitch> why are these australians up so early?
[08:53] <StevenK> TB meeting.
[08:53] <StevenK> Well, that's why I'm up.
[08:54] <raphink> yep
[08:54] <raphink> in 7 minutes
[08:54] <raphink> hehe
[08:54] <dholbach> hey StevenK, raphink
[08:54] <raphink> hi dholbach
[08:54] <raphink> :)
[08:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: they didnt sleep :P
[08:54] <raphink> coming to the TB dholbach ?
[08:54] <dholbach> I should think so (while debugging some other stuff)
[08:54] <raphink> great Hobbsee :)
[08:55] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:57] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:57] <ajmitch> morning sistpoty
[08:57] <Hobbsee> morning sistpoty
[09:05] <sistpoty> erm... didn't we want to discuss UVF handling for universe (proxies etc.) this tb-meeting?
[09:05] <ajmitch> yes, quickly add it :)
[09:07] <ajmitch> ogra: UVF exceptions, are we ratifying that at TB?
[09:08] <ajmitch> the people who can ask
[09:08] <ogra> nope, we did that in the motu meeting, but we need contacts, thats what we wanted to ask ...
[09:09] <ajmitch> ok, who was chosen?
[09:09] <sistpoty> ogra: could you please check the TBAgenda (just added the point)?
[09:09] <ogra> oh, a long list iirc ...
[09:09] <ogra> sistpoty, mdz will ask for other stuff at the end ...
[09:09] <ogra> #we can bring it up there
[09:09] <sistpoty> ogra: oh, should I remove it then?
[09:10] <ogra> no, if you have put it there already, leave it
[09:10] <sistpoty> :)
[09:10] <ogra> just dont assume the people reload the page and see it ;)
[09:12] <sistpoty> hehe
[09:23] <crimsun> congrats, lucas
[09:23] <tseng> lotusleaf: yay
[09:23] <lucas> :-)
[09:23] <Kyral> Congratz dude
[09:23] <tseng> ermm
[09:23] <lucas> thank you all for the support
[09:23] <tseng> lucas
[09:23] <Kyral> now you get pestered with REVU requests ;P
[09:23] <lotusleaf> tseng: darn, I was hoping I would get the 'yay' :P
[09:24] <LaserJock> was lucas first?
[09:24] <lucas> LaserJock: yes
[09:24] <LaserJock> lucas: congrats
[09:24] <lucas> :-)
[09:27] <lucas> think about membership first
[09:27] <lucas> (if you haven't already)
[09:27] <LaserJock> it is suprising how fast you can learn though, especially when we have 6 month release cycles
[09:27] <Kyral> yah
[09:27] <dholbach> guys, you'll make it in no time. We'll have so much stuff to fix for Dapper, so you'll all get some uploads under your belts.
[09:27] <Kyral> lol
[09:27] <Kyral> Yah
[09:27] <sistpoty> lucas: for rev: "Altering lucas@lucas-nussbaum.net to level reviewer"
[09:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: haha :-)
[09:28] <dholbach> :)
[09:28] <Kyral> I'm always looking at GNOMEFiles for new rthings :D
[09:28] <ajmitch> dholbach: I hope I can
[09:28] <Kyral> Actually I have 3 things under my belt...right now
[09:28] <Kyral> laptoptemp, GTKEdit, yamysqlfront
[09:28] <Hobbsee> lucas: give me time to fix some of the packaging errors first lol - i'd only intended to watch the process for dapper anyway - i'd never dreamed of uploading anything :P
[09:29] <dholbach> ajmitch: ha, I wish I could say that, I'd be on vacation or something.
[09:29] <Kyral> lucas you can look at laptoptemp ;P
[09:29] <ajmitch> dholbach: I did some debian uploads though :)
[09:29] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: why not?
[09:29] <dholbach> Hobbsee: We can surely find you something :)
[09:29] <ajmitch> and I was offline for ~4 days
[09:29] <Kyral> actually...*switches terms and runs uscan on laptoptemp*
[09:30] <ajmitch> the grilling for MOTU seems to have been turned up now
[09:30] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: and dholbach...i'm sure you can - but i'm supposed to leave to go on holidays in a couple of hours, and i'll only be back after UVF
[09:30] <Kyral> yah
[09:30] <dholbach> ajmitch: moderate grilling :)
[09:30] <ajmitch> dholbach: not like the core-dev grilling :)
[09:30] <Hobbsee> oh dear...sounds very scary....
[09:30] <ajmitch> 'what colour was keybuk's hair?'
[09:30] <dholbach> Hobbsee: we'll have enough to do then - if you want to join us, we're happy to have you here :)
[09:30] <lucas> sistpoty: thanks, even tho I must admit that REVU isn't one of my priorities. my next TODO item is summarizing the status of the ~300 packages in universe which aren't in Debian
[09:30] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: bugs won't stop piling up because of UVF. :-)
[09:31] <Kyral> Is there a Low Mem spec?
[09:31] <dholbach> Hobbsee: Where are you going on VAC?
[09:31] <Hobbsee> true, but whether i have the expertise to fix them is an interesting question - i guess there's always help around
[09:31] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm in sydney now, going over to adelaide till the 28th, supposedly
[09:31] <Kyral> azeem uploaded EasyChem, but it hasn't appeared in the repos
[09:32] <azeem> dinstall was just a few minutes ago
[09:32] <azeem> it should hit the mirrors in a couple of hours
[09:32] <Kyral> oh lol
[09:32] <Kyral> I didn't get an email
[09:33] <azeem> ah, right
[09:33] <azeem> it is NEW
[09:33] <azeem> Kyral: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[09:34] <Kyral> hmm
[09:34] <crimsun> congrats, hub
[09:34] <ajmitch> well done :)
[09:34] <Kyral> congratz dude
[09:34] <Kyral> hmm is there a way to convert a Readme.html to a manpage?
[09:34] <LaserJock> congrats hub
[09:35] <sistpoty> hub: congrats :)
[09:35] <hub> thanks guys
[09:35] <LaserJock> azeem, how long do items usually stay in NEW ?
[09:36] <StevenK> Kyral: Not easily.
[09:36] <StevenK> HTML -> DocBook -> man?
[09:36] <StevenK> However, that is likely to look like arse.
[09:36] <azeem> LaserJock: not sure about new packages these days, but things which are only there due to transitions are usually processed fast, i.e. at most a couple days and usually the same day
[09:37] <azeem> LaserJock: it used to be very bad in the past, when packages lingered there for months
[09:37] <LaserJock> azeem: ok, I've been on ther 5 days so far, I just wondered
[09:37] <ajmitch> sometimes it's less than a week, othertimes it's closer to 2 weeks
[09:38] <Kyral> StevenK: yah I'll just install is as readme
[09:39] <Kyral> meh..I keep getting any and all messed up
[09:39] <Kyral> C programs are "any" right?
[09:40] <azeem> yes
[09:40] <LaserJock> what's with xvidcap being in NEW for a year?
[09:40] <Kyral> okay
[09:40] <azeem> LaserJock: there are probably hairy patent or licensing issues on that one
[09:41] <DoeRayMe> hey i was told to ask here, if a package i need can be added to the repo, http://gift-fasttrack.berlios.de/ which a network plugin for giFT, they have a debian package availible, but would prefer if it was in the Ubuntu Repo ;)
[09:41] <dholbach> DoeRayMe: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates might be what you want.
[09:44] <hub> dholbach: how will I get upload rights?
[09:44] <dholbach> hub: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
[09:44] <hub> ah ok
[09:44] <ajmitch> follow instructions there & wait for elmo
[09:44] <hub> ok
[09:46] <LaserJock> whay to go raphink
[09:46] <crimsun> congrats raphink
[09:46] <raphink> yeah :)
[09:46] <lucas> raphink: congrats :-)
[09:46] <dholbach> NEW MOTUS!
[09:46] <raphink> thanks
[09:46] <ajmitch> now, StevenK...
[09:46] <ogra> #yay
[09:46] <dholbach> NEWS FOR THE MOTU REPORT!
[09:47] <dholbach> :-p
[09:47] <hub> congrats to the new motus
[09:47] <raphink> yeah :)
[09:47] <ajmitch> StevenK: ready for the interrogation?
[09:47] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:47] <raphink> hehe
[09:47] <Hobbsee> well done raphink :)
[09:47] <raphink> thanks Hobbsee :)
[09:47] <raphink> :) :)
[09:48] <Kyral> lol
[09:48] <Kyral> Now for you guys to Revu things for us :P
[09:48] <raphink> Kyral: I review things already :p
[09:48] <raphink> ;)
[09:48] <raphink> but now i can advocate :)
[09:49] <raphink> hehe
[09:49] <Kyral> oaky dh_installexamples
[09:49] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[09:50] <raphink> huhu
[09:50] <raphink> let switch to signing the package ;)
[09:50] <Kyral> I just make a file called "package.examples" and list the files I want installed into /usr/share/doc/package/examples?
[09:51] <raphink> never used examplse but I think that's it
[09:51] <raphink> and if you have only one binary created by the source
[09:51] <raphink> then naming the file "examples" should be good
[09:51] <raphink> package.{examples,postinst,etc.} is only useful for multiple-binary packages
[09:53] <Kyral> ahh
[09:53] <Kyral> raphink: review laptoptemp please?
[09:53] <buxy> StevenK: what about joining Utnubu ? :)
[09:53] <raphink> after the TB Kyral ok?
[09:53] <ajmitch> buxy: always trying to draw people in.. ;)
[09:53] <raphink> hmm actually I'm with friends now so after TB I might enjoy a bit my time with them ... later in the evening
[09:53] <hub> I have to recoved my REVU password
[09:53] <Kyral> lol
[09:53] <hub> it is on the desktop at home
[09:54] <raphink> hub: really?
[09:54] <raphink> haha
[09:54] <ajmitch> buxy: I've been meaning to help out, once I get around to it ;)
[09:54] <buxy> ajmitch: yeah, it was in response to what he said in -meeting ("ignore debian and work on ubuntu")
[09:54] <raphink> oh hi buxy
[09:55] <ajmitch> buxy: sadly my debian packages don't manage themselves so well
[09:55] <buxy> hehe
[09:55] <ajmitch> the bad part is that they were there at all :)
[09:55] <raphink> thanks buxy :)
[09:55] <LaserJock> buxy: what does it take to work with Utnubu? Do you have to be a DD?
[09:56] <raphink> I guess it helps to get things in debian LaserJock
[09:56] <buxy> LaserJock: it's not necessarily required ... but Utnubu certainly needs people familiar with bith distributions :)
[09:57] <stratus> LaserJock, no
[09:57] <stratus> buxy, not exactly
[09:57] <LaserJock> I've been trying to work on the debian-science and motu-science relationship
[09:57] <stratus> buxy, btw nice nickname Raphael. :)
[09:57] <buxy> thanks stratus
[09:57] <stratus> buxy, please review it after: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianDemystification
[09:58] <crimsun> congrats, StevenK
[09:58] <dholbach> EXCELLENT :)
[09:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ubuntu-mono & debian-mono have a good working relationship now
[09:58] <dholbach> I'm so happy to have you guys in here!
[09:58] <StevenK> Heh
[09:58] <ajmitch> well done stratus
[09:58] <ajmitch> sigh
[09:58] <ajmitch> well done StevenK
[09:58] <LaserJock> but the maintainership in Debian makes it hard for me to want to contribute to Debian unless I can make a commitment to maintain packages in the Debian sense
[09:58] <ajmitch> stratus: you need to change your nick or something :)
[09:58] <StevenK> Thanks, guys.
[09:58] <stratus> ajmitch, never :)
[09:59] <ajmitch> stratus: you're basically just taking packages that are in universe at the moment, and maintaining some of them yourself?
[09:59] <stratus> ajmitch, yes and no. Yes because i did some 'back merging' but no, since i'm a utnubu member too and i informed the team about that.
[10:00] <ajmitch> so it's NMU by anyone on the team, or others
[10:00] <stratus> ajmitch, basically i decided not to keep those packages under utnubu svn repository using a baz or bzr one.
[10:00] <ajmitch> right, I use bzr for most of mine now
[10:00] <stratus> ajmitch, at this point in time yes but the deal is that we don't have decided about the uploaders field yet.
[10:01] <ajmitch> I should probably pickup a few that are in ubuntu as well
[10:01] <stratus> ajmitch, pkg-gnome and pkg-perl projects have different policies about uploaders field, utnubu should pick one.
[10:01] <ajmitch> and pkg-mono probably has a different one again
[10:01] <stratus> ajmitch, so we can setup a bzr repository for utnubu if you want.
[10:02] <ajmitch> stratus: but bzr doesn't work quite as well like that
[10:02] <stratus> ajmitch, i think that pkg-mono is using the same policy as pkg-perl. The difference with pkg-gnome is that they use cdbs for almost everything.
[10:02] <ajmitch> I end up having a separate bzr branch for each debian dir of my packages
[10:02] <stratus> ajmitch, i know, i miss 'tags' in bzr.
[10:02] <ajmitch> it will come
[10:03] <stratus> ajmitch, i see.
[10:03] <ajmitch> ah yes, you're the gnome-sudoku maintainer ;)
[10:04] <stratus> atm yes, but as i said the plan is move everything that i 'back merged' from ubuntu to utnubu group
[10:04] <ajmitch> right
[10:05] <stratus> we're talking about 5 packages, gdebi is special since i'm contributing to it as upstream too. I've my own bzr branch but mvo is authoritative.
[10:05] <LaserJock> anybody familiar with svn-buildpackage here?
[10:05] <ajmitch> I've used it
[10:05] <sistpoty> LaserJock: little bit
[10:05] <stratus> me too
[10:06] <LaserJock> well, I'm trying to run dch -i and it says that the package name in changelog isn't the same as the parent directory (cause it is trunk)
[10:08] <buxy> LaserJock: use "svn co svn://..../trunk packagename" when you checkout the package
[10:08] <buxy> and then the directory has a good name
[10:08] <LaserJock> oh, that makes sense
[10:09] <buxy> (or rename directly "trunk" if that's the directory that you checked out)
[10:09] <stratus> yes, but now it will be safe run "mv trunk packagename"
[10:09] <stratus> since you already did some changes, right?
[10:09] <LaserJock> umm, I don't have any uncommited changes right now
[10:10] <LaserJock> is there any good resources on svn-buildpakcage, I just can't get anything to work
[10:10] <ajmitch> ask #launchpad
[10:11] <stratus> buxy, i've a LP account and i can login into wiki, but my LP account was configured days before my first login attempt into the wiki - maybe wiki needs sync, it isn't authenticating in the same db.
[10:11] <buxy> stratus: I configured my LP account several days ago already ...
[10:11] <sistpoty> LaserJock: there is a rough guide at the usual /usr/share/doc/ place
[10:12] <stratus> LaserJock, svn-buildpackage is just "dpkg-buildpackage for svn maintained packages", there's nothing much more than that. I use it  with pbuilder too anyway.
[10:12] <Kyral> whee
[10:12] <stratus> buxy, so it looks like a bug.
[10:12] <Kyral> my first manpage written in nroff
[10:13] <LaserJock> stratus: I'm just not getting things to build and the error always seems to be with something with the svn part, I guess I just need to read more docs
[10:14] <hub> how to I recover my password for REVU?
[10:14] <sistpoty> hub: enter any password ... then you'll get a link to "recover password"
[10:14] <hub> ah yeah
[10:15] <hub> I re-missed that part
[10:15] <stratus> LaserJock, maybe a pratical short tutorial can help you, try at: pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/subversion.html
[10:15] <LaserJock> stratus: ah, thanks. that should help
[10:16] <stratus> LaserJock, you're welcome
[10:16] <hub> works now
[10:16] <hub> thanks
[10:16] <sistpoty> np
[10:18] <sivang> anyway, I saw that MOTU admissions are getting harder from TB meeting to another :) I have a lib I want to package, how do I Start?
[10:19] <raphink> sivang: by reading NDMG if you havent' yet?
[10:19] <sistpoty> sivang: did you read the library packaging guide yet? (http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html)
[10:20] <hub> so do I still need to upload new packages to REVU?
[10:20] <sivang> raphink, sistpoty : I could have swore I bookmarked that already, no idea where that went.
[10:20] <sistpoty> hub: yes... every new package needs two advocates, doesn't matter wether packaged by a motu or not
[10:21] <hub> ok
[10:22] <siretart> hi folks
[10:23] <Kyral> GTKEdit ready for REVU
[10:23] <JohnnyMast> hi
[10:23] <JohnnyMast> vacatiom is over :)
[10:23] <JohnnyMast> -m +n
[10:24] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[10:25] <siretart> ah, i see that I didn't miss the exiting part of the meeting yet :)
[10:25] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: good, you've got outstanding merges to get done in the next 2 days :)
[10:26] <raphink> hi siretart
[10:26] <JohnnyMast> i know that .. my vacation is over now so lets get rocking :)
[10:26] <stratus> see you in some hours
[10:26] <sistpoty> siretart: do you remember who was proposed for uvf exemption proxies? (topic is still on the list)
[10:26] <ajmitch> bye stratus
[10:27] <siretart> sistpoty: that was you, me, ajmitch and crimsun, irrc
[10:27] <siretart> iirc
[10:28] <siretart> sistpoty: are you tomorrow at the uni?
[10:28] <siretart> I think we should finally meet somewhere :)
[10:28] <sistpoty> siretart: I didn't intend to go there... I'm still a little bit ill :(
[10:28] <ajmitch> siretart: LCA is next week, meet up in NZ
[10:28] <siretart> oh. bless you!
[10:28] <siretart> ajmitch: good idea :)
[10:29] <sistpoty> he, well, I am much better already (even smoked some cigarettes again today :)
[10:29] <sistpoty> siretart: what about thursday?
[10:30] <siretart> sistpoty: I have an excercise from 1200 to 1400, so before or after that would be great
[10:30] <sistpoty> siretart: 14.00h at the cafeteria?
[10:31] <siretart> sistpoty: I will be there! :)
[10:31] <sistpoty> ok :)
[10:35] <Kyral> someone want to reviw this for me?
[10:35] <Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1522
[10:36] <ajmitch> ugly debian/rules, full of dh_make junk
[10:36] <ajmitch> +	# Add here commands to install the package into debian/gtkedit.
[10:36] <ajmitch> +
[10:36] <ajmitch> where does it do make install?
[10:36] <Kyral> okay okay
[10:37] <Kyral> I call dh_install :P
[10:37] <Kyral> I wasn't sure if I should call dh_install there
[10:37] <Kyral> or leave it
[10:37] <ajmitch> evil & ugly
[10:37] <ajmitch> why do you have usr/sbin in debian/dirs?
[10:38] <Kyral> because I forgot to take it out
[10:38] <ajmitch> you have a gtkedit.menu file, no gtkedit.desktop
[10:38] <Kyral> yah yah yah okay I get it
[10:39] <ajmitch> ok, I'll stop reviewing then
[10:39] <Kyral> Clean DH junk out
[10:39] <Kyral> make .desktop file
[10:40] <Kyral> I wasn't sure if I should leave dh_install where it is or call it up there
[10:41] <Kyral> mitch?
[10:46] <Kyral> I'll write the desktop after dinner...
[10:56] <crimsun> ugh. 1h 56m
[10:56] <crimsun> next meeting!
[10:56] <ajmitch> yay
[10:58] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[10:58] <ajmitch> your topic was deferred
[10:59] <\sh> one hour late...is the meeting still going on?
[10:59] <\sh> ajmitch: ah ok
[10:59] <sistpoty> \sh: meeting just ended
[11:00] <sistpoty> and /me is now off to bed... gn8 everyone
[11:00] <ajmitch> night
[11:00] <\sh> cu sistpoty
[11:01] <siretart> same here, gn8 folks
[11:01] <ajmitch> night siretart
[11:09] <\sh> I'll patch kmail, so that the reply button is not available anymore
[11:19] <marcin`> hello MOTU's
[11:19] <marcin`> got two questions...
[11:19] <lifeless> hola
[11:20] <hub> hola
[11:20] <marcin`> 1. are there any plans to 'ubuntuize' maintainer scripts - and for example change "This package was debianized by ..." in copyright file and other stuff like this?
[11:21] <hub> I'm not sure that make sense
[11:21] <crimsun> marcin`: issue deferred until Debian makes a decision
[11:21] <marcin`> 2. how could I build dapper packages on hoary?
[11:21] <hub> as package are still .deb
[11:21] <hub> marcin`: pbbuilder
[11:21] <hub> marcin`: wiki has instructions on pbuilder
[11:22] <hub> it is a chrooted build environnement
[11:22] <marcin`> ok got it - thanks
[11:27] <raphink> very helpful :)
[11:27] <raphink> dchroot is great, too
[11:27] <raphink> esp. to test these packages
[11:27] <raphink> marcin`: once you build your packages for dapper, you can test them in a dapper env. with dchroot
[11:27] <raphink> see DebootstrapHowTo iirc
[11:39] <Riddell> what's frozen on thursday for universe?
[11:41] <crimsun> just any newer versions of already existing packages in the repo
[11:42] <crimsun> any new packages [not in the repo]  are still game until Feature Freeze, and any newer packaging revisions of already existing packages in the repo are game, too
[11:43] <crimsun> (and of course there's UVF exception)
[11:48] <LaserJock> anybody having any memory leak problems with the lates dapper kernel?
[11:49] <Kyral> Where do .desktop files install to anyway?
[11:49] <LaserJock> /usr/share/applications/
[11:49] <Kyral> so in gtkedit.install put debian/gtkedit.desktop /usr/share/applications/
[11:51] <LaserJock> I think dh_desktop takes care of it
[11:52] <Kyral> not according to the manpage
[11:53] <LaserJock> oh, yeah. I was wrong. My upstream Makefile already installed the .desktop
[11:53] <Kyral> heheh
[11:53] <LaserJock> but dh_desktop is still good to use
[11:53] <Kyral> I know
[11:53] <Kyral> the upstream Makefile for GTKEdit is like 4 lines ;P
[11:54] <LaserJock> I bet
[11:54] <Kyral> yah and no Icon
[11:54] <Kyral> and I don't feel like making one lol
[11:55] <Kyral> can I just use the icon for mime/text?
[11:55] <Kyral> actually how would I do that....