[12:05] <cyberix> Will there be one project with multiple groups working around it, or does every developer group and distro create a new project and setup everything from scratch?
[12:06] <cyberix> I don't understand where these four teams co-operate, and where they don't.
[12:08] <cyberix> If Mozilla developer community, Netscape, Ubuntu and Suse all used launchpad to develop mozilla.
[12:08] <cyberix> How would it work
[12:08] <cyberix> It is not a problem
[12:08] <mpt> sivang, yes, I've been back in NZ for about a month
[12:08] <cyberix> I just don't know yet how Launchpad works.
[12:09] <mpt> cyberix, none of those would be projects, in the way Launchpad uses the word projects 
[12:10] <mpt> the Mozilla developer community's one would be a product
[12:10] <mpt> and the various distros would have packages of that product.
[12:11] <cyberix> Could Netscape then setup a team to work on the product?
[12:11] <mpt> no, because Netscape is closed-source and Launchpad is for open source :-)
[12:12] <mpt> but in general, you can set up teams in Launchpad for whatever you like
[12:12] <mpt> Neither products nor packages are formally associated with teams in Launchpad
[12:13] <mpt> Rosetta understands teams, because it has translation teams with special permissions
[12:13] <mpt> but other parts of Launchpad don't use teams, afaik
[12:13] <cyberix> How does patch management work then?
[12:14] <mpt> You can attach a patch to a bug report, just as you can in Bugzilla
[12:14] <mpt> I'm not an expert on that area, but I *think* Launchpad aims to encourage branches rather than patches
[12:14] <cyberix> But who gets to decide wether a branch or a patch is included?
[12:15] <cyberix> Well with branches this is ofcourse no problem
[12:15] <mpt> The maintainer of the product or package
[12:15] <mpt> e.g. I might come up with a branch for Firefox that puts the toolbar at the bottom of the window
[12:16] <mpt> and the Ubuntu maintainer might say "ok, that's cool", and merge my branch, and maintain it in Ubuntu Firefox
[12:16] <mpt> while the Mozilla developers say "that's crack" and never merge it
[12:16] <mpt> so Mozilla Firefox and Ubuntu Firefox and SuSE Firefox can be maintained in parallel
[12:17] <mpt> and in the distant future, Launchpad will be able to show you how closely related various branches are
[12:18] <cyberix> But what, if mozilla product maintainer refuses to confirm a (public domain ;-) branch created by Netscape
[12:20] <cyberix> Then no packager can include it.
[12:20] <cyberix> Netscape might have their own packager.
[12:21] <cyberix> And this could be a spy-ware branch
[12:21] <mpt> So, it'll be the same as my toolbar branch
[12:21] <cyberix> Mozilla product maintainer would refuse to accept it for ethical reasons
[12:21] <mpt> it'll be included in Netscape but nowhere else
[12:21] <cyberix> But Netscape maintainer would still want to include it.
[12:21] <mpt> and they would.
[12:22] <cyberix> But how and where would their branch be hosted?
[12:22] <mpt> on Launchpad
[12:22] <cyberix> They would have "mozillawithspyware" product there?
[12:22] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/people/somenetscapeperson/+branch/name-of-branch
[12:22] <cyberix> With maintainer from Netscape?
[12:22] <mpt> not a product, just a branch
[12:23] <cyberix> But isn't the product just a bunch of branches then?
[12:23] <mpt> yep
[12:24] <cyberix> So what are products needed for?
[12:24] <cyberix> can't we just have packages that collect a bunch of branches?
[12:24] <mpt> to say what a branch is a branch *of*
[12:25] <mpt> so I can say "this funny toolbar branch is a branch of Firefox", and Netscape can say "this spyware is a branch of Firefox", and they can appear on the Firefox product's Branches page
[12:25] <cyberix> So products are named places of forks then
[12:26] <mpt> then someone wanting to package Firefox can say "I'd like that branch, and that one, but not that one, and I'd like fries with that"
[12:26] <cyberix> So prducts are just names for branch collections so it is easier to talk about them.
[12:27] <mpt> It's like the Linux kernel -- Linus's branch is in the center, but only because he makes good decisions
[12:27] <mpt> pretty much, yes.
[12:27] <cyberix> Ok. I'm starting to get this.
[12:27] <cyberix> -- back to reality --
[12:28] <mpt> Products are also useful things for handling translations and bounties and support requests.
[12:28] <mpt> handling -> categorizing
[12:29] <cyberix> I'm not sure about the current status of gnunet and gnunet-gtk packages.
[12:29] <cyberix> They are auto(?) included from Ubuntu
[12:29] <cyberix> But I can't work on the translations
[12:30] <cyberix> I'm also interrested, if they get somehow synced with gnunet svn
[12:31] <cyberix> I'm just not sure what to do. I can't add them because they are there already, right?
[12:31] <mpt> Mail rosetta-users, or talk to jordi when he wakes up
[12:31] <mpt> jordi's our translation organizer person
[12:33] <cyberix> I mailed, but used different email than my launchpad account so the email got stucked for moderation.
[12:33] <cyberix> How long will this moderation take. Should I send another email from the right address?
[12:33] <jordi> hello cyberix
[12:34] <cyberix> jordi: :-D
[12:34] <cyberix> jordi: good morning
[12:34] <jordi> (except it's 00:34 here ;)
[12:34] <sivang> hey jordi , also working in different timezone?
[12:34] <cyberix> jordi: good earlyish morning
[12:35] <jordi> sivang: nope, West Europe TZ
[12:35] <jordi> cyberix: what's up?
[12:35] <cyberix> jordi: Can you set gnunet and gnunet-gtk packages up for translation
[12:35] <jordi> cyberix: are you the author?
[12:35] <cyberix> No
[12:36] <cyberix> I'd just like to translate them to Finnish
[12:36] <cyberix> They tell me "No translatable templates available"
[12:36] <jordi> cyberix: have a look at this
[12:36] <jordi> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaNewImportPolicy
[12:36] <cyberix> Both packages should have such.
[12:37] <jordi> cyberix: or you can translate the ubuntu templates, after joining the Finnish team
[12:39] <jordi> cyberix: have you found the templates in rosetta?
[12:39] <jordi> the ubuntu ones
[12:39] <cyberix> nope
[12:39] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/gnunet/+pots/gnunet
[12:39] <jordi> is this it?
[12:40] <cyberix> I'd like to translate the dapper one
[12:40] <jordi> oh
[12:40] <cyberix> The version in Breezy is very outdated anyway
[12:40] <jordi> dapper isn't yet imported. It will, but you'll have to wait until February
[12:40] <jordi> you could start working on it on breezy, and then merge your breezy file in dapper
[12:41] <cyberix> I could start working on the development template
[12:41] <jordi> I assume most of it would be valid
[12:41] <cyberix> it is very close I think
[12:41] <jordi> yes
[12:41] <cyberix> They can/will be merged when the dapper one starts to work?
[12:41] <jordi> can be merged
[12:42] <jordi> not automatically yet, that will happen in the future
[12:42] <cyberix> How are the translations committed to upstream svn?
[12:42] <cyberix> by hand?
[12:43] <jordi> yes
[12:43] <jordi> when you finish, you can export your file and send it upstream
[12:43] <jordi> mpt: thanks for highlighting the channel :)
[12:43] <jordi> mpt: I was going to close this
[12:44] <cyberix> I hope this will be automated one day
[12:44] <cyberix> to avoid redundant work
[12:44] <jordi> it can't be fully automated, but we will export bzr branches so upstreams can get he updates very easily
[12:45] <jordi> even automatically
[12:45] <jordi> but they need to agree of course
[12:46] <cyberix> How can I get permission to upload the dev-templates for gnunet and gnunet-gtk?
[12:47] <jordi> is the breezy version very different?
[12:47] <jordi> cyberix: you should ask the authors if they are ok with it.
[12:48] <cyberix> breezy version is comlpetely different I think
[12:49] <cyberix> 0.6 -> 0.7 was almost complete rewrite in architecture
[12:49] <cyberix> and if they are?
[12:52] <jordi> if they were, you could work on those and then merge with the new version, when dapper is imported in Febrauary
[12:52] <jordi> but if talk to upstream about this, I can import GNUnet devel as you wish.
[12:53] <cyberix> The only problem I can think of is that they are Gnu projects, so they might 1) want people to use the Gnu translation system and, 2) refuse because Launchpad/Rosetta is non-free software.
[12:53] <jordi> yes
[12:54] <jordi> I know, that's probably going to be a problem.
[12:54] <jordi> waiting for the dapper import seems a good idea in the end
[12:54] <cyberix> But 1) People could still use that one
[12:54] <cyberix> 2) no-one has to install non-free software to use Lauchpad/Rosetta
[12:55] <jordi> cyberix: the rpoblem with importing against their will or knowledge is that if the GNU Finnish team is also working on it, you'll duplicate work.
[12:55] <cyberix> I think FSF is more against installing non-free software than using hidden non-free software e.g. in an ATM machine.
[12:55] <cyberix> Well I've done more Finnish translation work for GNUnet than the Gnu translation team.
[12:56] <cyberix> :-)
[12:56] <jordi> hehe, yeah
[12:56] <jordi> http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation/registry.cgi?domain=gnunet-gtk
[12:56] <jordi> this is good news
[12:56] <jordi> they don't require the translation disclaimer
[12:56] <jordi> cyberix: I need to go to bed.
[12:56] <cyberix> good night
[12:56] <cyberix> (actually me too)
[12:56] <jordi> Should we talk abot this in the morning? Like in 9h from now
[12:56] <jordi> or mail me
[12:57] <jordi> nite
[12:57] <cyberix> night
[12:57] <cyberix> I'll get back to you
[02:01] <lifeless> jamesh: ping on the story review for me
[02:25] <jamesh> lifeless: just about to send the review.  Unless I'm mistaken, this would make it impossible to run an individual page test from pagetests/standalone/, right?
[07:33] <jamesh> stub: there is a bug report referencing an OOPS ID that doesn't seem to be available on chinstrap.  Are there any OOPS reports that wouldn't be getting sync'd?
[07:36] <stub> jamesh: I don't think the rsync jobs are sorted yet. The OOPSs should be in /srv/launchpad.net, but arn't. The old location might still be active but won't have OOPS from servers 3 and 4
[07:39] <jamesh> stub: okay.
[07:40] <jamesh> the oops in question was OOPS-18A428
[07:41] <jamesh> looks like the last OOPS for the 18th on chinstrap is from around 12:41
[07:41] <stub> Without a checksum, we have no way of ensuring the code was transcribed correctly.
[07:57] <lifeless> hmm
[07:58] <lifeless> 7 bits should be more than enough
[07:58] <lifeless> just add one more digit
[08:00] <jblack> Would somebody with breezy mind checking the version of postfix they have for me? 
[08:01] <lamont> jblack: should be 2.2.4-1ubuntu2
[08:01] <jblack> thanks
[08:02] <lamont> 2.1.3: warty, 2.1.5: hoary, 2.2.4: breezy, 2.2.8: dapper
[08:02] <lamont> which fits what's in the archive
[08:02] <jblack> whoo. mail!
[08:11] <lamont> jblack: just for giggles, if you want to see if 2.2.8-4 works, that'd be neat
[08:11] <lamont> (works for me on an hppa/dapper box)
[08:12] <jblack> I could give that a try tomorrow
[08:23] <jamesh> jblack: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/postfix should also give you the answer about the version numbers
[08:42] <Den> Any launchpad developers/ maintainers here?
[08:45] <Den> _anyone_here?
[08:49] <mdke_> Den, ask your question and hope, or try the mailing list
[09:00] <mpt> jamesh, what happened to all the Documentation and Websites bugs from bugzilla.ubuntu.com?
[09:02] <jamesh> mpt: nothing
[09:05] <mpt> that's bad, isn't it?
[09:05] <mpt> the Ubuntu Documentation team were using Bugzilla fairly heavily
[09:06] <jamesh> to do a migration, I'd need to know how to map the bugs
[09:08] <mdke_> argh you didnt move those/
[09:08] <mdke_> ??
[09:09] <mdke_> and now we can't use them?
[09:09] <jamesh> we would need to migrate them before use
[09:09] <mdke_> you closed bugzilla before doing that?
[09:10] <mpt> jamesh, all the Documentation bugs should be migrated to https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/+bugs
[09:11] <mdke_> mpt, distros/ubuntu/ubuntu-doc?
[09:11] <jamesh> mpt: all in one product?
[09:11] <mpt> hmmmm
[09:11] <mdke_> mpt, distros/ubuntu/ubuntu-docs sorry
[09:11] <mpt> maybe ubuntu-doc should be a project, and each document should be its own product
[09:12] <jamesh> here are the existing components: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/describecomponents.cgi?product=Documentation
[09:12] <mdke_> they don't exist upstream, only in Ubuntu
[09:12] <mdke_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
[09:13] <jamesh> mdke_: having them as one or more products would make more sense in the LP datamodel.
[09:14] <jamesh> mdke_: you can register bzr branches against products (if you want to use bzr to manage the docs).
[09:14] <mdke_> we don't use bzr
[09:14] <mpt> mdke_, they could be used (with a few tweaks) for Ubuntu derivatives, which is why they make sense as products
[09:14] <mdke_> k
[09:14] <mdke_> ok, you guys can sort it. I'll just go and wonder how bugzilla can have been closed when not all the bugs were exported
[09:14] <mdke_> website bugs are quite important too
[09:15] <jamesh> mpt: well, if you tell me how you want the bugs mapped, I'll do the migration
[09:17] <mpt> heh, I was just about to suggest you and mdke sort it :-)
[09:17] <jamesh> s/mpt/mdke/ then :)
[09:18] <mpt> mdke_, Bugzilla's been closed for nearly a week and you didn't notice?
[09:20] <jblack> kiko: Up by any weird twist of fate?
[09:20] <PenguinOfDoom> How do I specify that a bug applies to dapper?
[09:21] <PenguinOfDoom> Or is this not what "distribution" field is for?
[09:21] <mpt> PenguinOfDoom, once the bug is reported, click "Target to Release" and choose Dapper
[09:23] <PenguinOfDoom> Malone is byzantine :P
[09:23] <jamesh> mpt: is there a clear separation between "admin request" website bugs and "content" website bugs?
[09:25] <jamesh> mpt: given that the admins are using RT to manage requests now
[09:35] <jamesh> mpt, mdke_: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BugzillaImportProcess/DocumentationProduct <- make a decision and fill in the table
[09:45] <mpt> jamesh, that depends on who's making the changes, I suppose
[09:45] <jordi> cyberix: hey
[09:45] <mpt> Except for the wiki, the Ubuntu Web sites aren't open source, so they don't really belong in Launchpad
[09:46] <jordi> cyberix: I don't see your rosetta-users post in the moderation queue
[09:50] <jordi> cyberix: oh, I see it as a bounce. There's something wrong with your post.
[09:50] <jamesh> mpt: okay.  We can leave out the website ones for now.  Should be pretty easy to decide how to map the documentation bugs though
[09:52] <mdke_> mpt, ubuntu.com is on a moin wiki too tbh
[09:52] <mdke_> oh you mean the process isn't open source
[09:53] <jamesh> mdke_: some of the websites product bugs are things like "SSL certificate broken for xxxx.ubuntu.com", which these days is more appropriate for RT
[09:55] <mdke_> jamesh, sure, but that isn't advertised to the users, and they can't see it's been reported. In fact I was wondering myself if they were on that one
[09:56] <mpt> It's to need a Canonical password to see bugs about *.ubuntu.com
[09:56] <mdke_> mpt, can you do the table? I've marked some as "not needed" because the documents don't exist. as for the others, I don't know how Launchpad targets work well enough
[09:56] <mpt> It's odd to need one, rather
[09:56] <mpt> mdke_, sure
[09:56] <mdke> thanks
[09:57] <jamesh> if you want to keep the current categorisation, please create the project and products as well as entering their names into that table
[09:57] <mdke> yeah, that is why I left them
[09:58] <mdke> we'll also need new ones for dapper: faq guide disappears and becomes "desktop guide" and "server guide"
[09:59] <mdke> mpt, actually wrt Documentation/Installation, you might ping Kamion, there is documentation for the debian installation program that people sometimes file bugs against, iirc
[09:59] <jamesh> mdke: there is no migration issue for these new products though
[09:59] <jamesh> mdke: anyone can create them
[10:00] <mdke> no, no migration issue
[10:01] <mdke>  [08:18:15]  < mpt> mdke_, Bugzilla's been closed for nearly a week and you didn't notice?
[10:01] <mdke> i kinda noticed that my bugs weren't there, but I presume they had been imported but didn't belong to me anymore
[10:02] <lifeless> jamesh: so
[10:05] <jamesh> lifeless: yes?
[10:06] <jamesh> mdke: when you say "not needed" and "not needed yet", are you saying you want me to ignore those bugs?
[10:06] <jamesh> and leave them in bugzilla?
[10:07] <mdke> jamesh, i mean the documents don't exist
[10:07] <mdke> so yeah
[10:07] <jamesh> mdke: there are no bugs filed on them?
[10:08] <mdke> if there are, they are on the wrong component, I'll have to check
[10:09] <lifeless> jamesh: jamesh standalone page tests
[10:09] <mdke> jamesh, there are some, perhaps we can pull them into where General goes?
[10:09] <lifeless> jamesh: I think we should either make them really standalone with db reset and clearing
[10:09] <lifeless> jamesh: or we should treat that dir as a story
[10:10] <jamesh> mdke: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?product=Documentation&component=Admin+Guide&component=Installation+Guide&component=Quick+Guide&component=User+Guide
[10:10] <lifeless> wowsers THATS a URL
[10:10] <mdke> yeah i see em
[10:10] <jblack> lifeless: I'm having difficulty with MockJobManager. Can you take a look at lib/supermirror/tests/testmirror.py? 
[10:10] <jamesh> lifeless: I agree.  I'd suggest making them standalone
[10:11] <mdke> bblm
[10:11] <jamesh> lifeless: there are 152 tests under pagetests/standalone/, and when working on a particular branch I usually want to run only one or two tests from that directory
[10:12] <jamesh> running an entire story isn't so bad for the other page test stories, since they are a lot shorter
[10:12] <jamesh> (and are intended to have order dependencies)
[10:14] <jamesh> mdke: we can easily map multiple bz components to a single LP product if that's the issue
[10:14] <jamesh> e.g. map the bugs in those components to the same one as the Documentation/General one
[10:15] <lifeless> jamesh: ok. I'll mail lp to confirm this, and assuming its good do it
[10:15] <mdke> jamesh, good, I've updated the wiki page accordingly. i'll leave the others to mpt, I'd rather something who is more familiar with LP than me decide whether to go with the distros/ubuntu or products/ubuntu-doc approach
[10:25] <lifeless> jblack: be with you in a minute
[10:25] <jblack> ok
[10:50] <lifeless> jblack: ok
[10:50] <lifeless> jblack: I art here
[10:50] <jblack> Thou are here! 
[10:50] <jblack> Ok. so on chinstrap in the expected location, I have a current sm-ng
[10:51] <lifeless> yup
[10:51] <jblack> if you look at lib/supermirror/tests, you'll find testmirror.py
[10:51] <jblack> in that, you'll find testDoublelock
[10:51] <jblack> testDoublelock is supposed to lock, then lock again, causing an error condition that I'm attempting to duplicate
[10:51] <lifeless> why do you want a Mock manager here ?
[10:52] <jblack> Because I'm testing main
[10:53] <jblack> My idea is to make a mock manager, start up main, which will make another mockmanager.
[10:53] <lifeless> well
[10:53] <jblack> I.E. Lock, then main tries to lock again.
[10:53] <jblack> that should fail, because its already locked, and I can make sure that main handles the exception properly
[10:53] <lifeless> the mock manager was used so that we could test the ui without having stuff really happening
[10:53] <jblack> exactly.
[10:53] <lifeless> so, are you testing the UI, or testing the manager ?
[10:54] <lifeless> oh, I see
[10:54] <lifeless> so you want to test that 'main handles a failed lock correctly' ?
[10:54] <jblack> Yup.
[10:54] <jblack> I'm trying to do this with a static attribute to emulate lockfiles.
[10:54] <jblack> You can see that in the mockmanager class... 
[10:54] <jblack> except it doesn't work.
[10:55] <lifeless> ah
[10:55] <lifeless> see they are not really static when you access them like that
[10:55] <lifeless> do 'MockJobManager.locked = True'
[10:55] <lifeless> in the lock() method.
[10:56] <lifeless> then it will behave like a static member
[10:56] <jblack> Ahh. What do I do with the.. for lack of a better phrase, declaration? 
[10:56] <lifeless> the declaration is fine
[10:57] <lifeless> just dont ever assign to it as 'self.locked' or it will convert it to a member variable
[10:57] <lifeless> for clarity, I suggest you never refer to it as self.locked at all
[10:57] <jblack> Gotcha.
[10:58] <lifeless> if I understand it correctly this happens because 'self.FOO = bar' calls setattr(self, 'FOO', bar)
[10:58] <spiv> lifeless: that is correct.
[10:58] <lifeless> spiv: first principles are wonderful things
[10:58] <jblack> And that takes precedence. I get it
[10:58] <lifeless> jblack: exactly.
[10:59] <jblack> Whoo! Failures. 
[10:59] <lifeless> gotta love those failures.
[10:59] <jblack> Actually, I do.
[10:59] <spiv> I wouldn't say that it "converts" it to a member variable, exactly.  Just the instance attribute overrides the class attribute, just the same as a subclass can override a parent class's attributes.
[10:59] <lifeless> oh I was being serious
[10:59] <spiv> Well, not precisely the same, I guess, but anyway...
[10:59] <jblack> Of course now all my mock tests fail now... :)
[10:59] <lifeless> spiv: pedant. pedant pedant. see the pink icon in the corner
[11:00] <spiv> pink icon?
[11:00] <lifeless> spiv: well panthers are endangered
[11:01] <jblack> thanks lifeless
[11:01] <spiv> lifeless: Ah.
[11:01] <triceratops> I want to fill a bugreport against ipodder (universe) but it isn't registered in malone yet. 
[11:01] <lifeless> oh sweet.
[11:01] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/people/lifeless/+packages
[11:02] <lifeless> that is damn useful
[11:02] <lifeless> now if only it showed debian versions
[11:02] <lifeless> Kinnison: is that planned ? ^^
[11:02] <triceratops> May someone please import ipodder in malone.
[11:03] <spiv> triceratops: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ipodder
[11:03] <spiv> triceratops: It seems to be there.
[11:03] <sivang> morning guys
[11:04] <spiv> triceratops: What did you do to look for it?
[11:05] <triceratops> spiv: Strange, i searched for ipodder bugs via https://launchpad.net/malone and it says: "No products matching ipodder were found. You can register a new product."
[11:05] <spiv> triceratops: Ah, there's no ipodder product, but there is a package.
[11:06] <spiv> triceratops: So I found it by searching on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
[11:06] <daf> hmm, perhaps /malone should search source packages too
[11:06] <spiv> daf: Yeah, I'm thinking that.
[11:06] <lifeless> spiv: can we have a quick phone call ?
[11:06] <spiv> daf: Given that the majority of our users atm are looking for packages, not products...
[11:06] <spiv> lifeless: Sure.
[11:07] <daf> spiv: exactly
[11:07] <daf> spiv: ideally, it would also look through binary package names and return the corresponding source packages
[11:07] <triceratops> spiv: I would asume that most people would look at https://launchpad.net/malone for bugs first rather than using your way
[11:08] <jamesh> triceratops: Launchpad keeps track of both products (what upstream developers produce) and packages (deb or rpm versions of a product produced by a particular distribution)
[11:09] <jamesh> triceratops: in this case, ipodder the product isn't registered with LP, but ipodder the Ubuntu package is.
[11:09] <triceratops> spiv: I would bet for that most people will go from launchpad directly to malone by pressing the menu item bugs, didn't you think so?
[11:09] <daf> ooh, I see that SelectResults.__len__'s days are numbered
[11:11] <Kinnison> lifeless: I'm not sure about the UI
[11:13] <triceratops> jamesh: For novice users this is irritating due to the fact that most of them don't know about the difference between a product and a package. Plus, the menus in launchpad are the first starting point most people will choose the bug menu item which is offered at this place. So it's more a matter of usability / menu prompt.
[11:13] <jamesh> triceratops: noted.  there are plans to improve the UI
[11:16] <triceratops> jamesh: Whilst we are on improvement... :) Is there a way to have a date listed when a bug was reported, better would be to sort the listed bugreports by date. I'm missing this a bit, its always needs a bit fizzeling to list all bugreports step by step to find a date...
[11:18] <jamesh> triceratops: at the top of the bug list, there is a box where you can ask to sort them newest first or oldest first
[01:49] (lifeless/#launchpad) so, the proposal is - standalone tests will become really standalone
[01:49] (lifeless/#launchpad) pros: no more sideeffects between tests in that dir
[01:49] (lifeless/#launchpad) cons: ~3 minute speed hit at this point I estimate
[01:49] (kiko/#launchpad) lifeless, you said something about jamesh?
[01:50] <bradb> mpt: A bug contact is a person who gets email about all new bugs filed on something. There is zero or one for a product, zero or one for a distribution, and zero, one, or more for a package. Product/distro contacts are protected by permissions. Anyone can make themselves a package bug contact for any package.
[01:50] <lifeless> kiko: the branch I have that makes running stories always work turned the standalone tests into a monolithic block.
[01:50] <lifeless> kiko: jamesh likes running single tests from within the standalone group - quite reasonably.
[01:50] <lifeless> kiko: so I want to support that use case.
[01:50] <kiko> jamesh, uhm
[01:50] <kiko> lifeless, uhm
[01:50] <kiko> I am totally NOT okay with regressing running-of-a-single-test in standalone/ if that's what we are talking about
[01:51] <kiko> that's one thing which saves me HOURS a day
[01:51] <lifeless> kiko: relax dude
[01:51] <mpt> bradb, so a bug contact's bugs report is /people/someone/+bugs/contact or something like that?
[01:51] <salgado> cprov, spiv will send me what he has and I'll move on with the review
[01:51] <mpt> bugs for things you are a bug contact for
[01:51] <lifeless> kiko: we are avoiding that regression
[01:51] <cprov> salgado: good idea
[01:51] <lifeless> kiko: jamesh picked it up during review
[01:52] <kiko> lifeless, i'm surprised it even got to review there -- that's one of the most important use cases for the test suite.
[01:52] <kiko> (from a developer's point of view)
[01:52] <lifeless> kiko: its a totally untested use case.
[01:52] <bradb> mpt: Maybe just one level deep like all the other reports, e.g. +packagebugs.
[01:52] <lifeless> kiko: but thats beside the point, I am now special casing 'standalone' 
[01:52] <kiko> okay
[01:53] <lifeless> so the question is, is it special cased as 'each test has db setup/teardown', or it is special cased as 'well its a story that is able to be split into bits'
[01:53] <kiko> lifeless, I think the former.
[01:53] <lifeless> the former has the pros and cons I listed above
[01:53] <lifeless> if you are hip with them, I'll finish the new tests and punt it back for review
[01:53] <lifeless> sweet.
[01:53] <kiko> right.
[01:53] <kiko> are there any other hidden regressions?
[01:54] <lifeless> not that I'm aware of
[01:54] <kiko> I mean, what does your branch change in terms of the design?
[01:54] <lifeless> of course, if there are other untested features, who knows
[01:54] <bradb> mpt: I'm guessing this report will show which packages the user is a bug contact for, and will allow per-package filtering.
[01:54] <kiko> is it conceptually just adding setup/teardown to each test?
[01:54] <kiko> bradb, if you use the table view, the user can decide on how he wants to group..
[01:54] <lifeless> at the ui level, stories are now directly addressable -
[01:54] <bradb> me too
[01:54] <kiko> (optionally)
[01:55] <lifeless> './test.py lib branches' will run the branches story end to end
[01:55] <kiko> sweet!
[01:55] <mpt> kiko, then organize the politics to unsqueeze our page layout, please :-)
[01:55] <lifeless> './test.py lib xx-foo-bar.txt' will run xx-foo-bar.txt wherever it exists *except* if it is part of a 'story', because stories are now not able to be randomly split up
[01:55] <bradb> user liberation army revolt?
[01:55] <mpt> but, you don't need a table to sort bug lists by package
[01:56] <lifeless> (that random splitting being the bug I am fixing)
[01:56] <kiko> lifeless, that's correct
[01:56] <mpt> just a checkbox as I said a few minutes ago
[01:56] <kiko> fancy mpt asking for additional checkboxes
[01:56] <kiko> okay
[01:56] <lifeless> kiko: in underlying design terms it changes the stories from being testsuites to being testcases, which has the desired effect.
[01:56] <kiko> I see
[01:56] <kiko> and the standalones?
[01:56] <lifeless> kiko: and that is where the standalone regression came in, which I am just fixing.
[01:57] <lifeless> standalones will remaing a testsuite, but the contents will now be PageTest instances
[01:57] <bradb> I'll show you guys a prototype in a bit. I need to eat first, etc.
[01:57] <kiko> lifeless, okay, cool.
[01:57] <kiko> lifeless, anything else on this topic?
[01:57] <kiko> jblack, ping?
[01:57] <lifeless> nope, I have what I need.
[01:58] <jblack> PONG
[01:58] <kiko> lifeless, I'll know when this lands, right?
[01:58] <jblack> Heh. Pong.
[01:58] <kiko> jblack, hey dude
[01:58] <kiko> jblack, I need an idea of what times your script failed to reach the server.
[01:58] <lifeless> kiko: yes, I will be mailing the lp list when it lands, as people have to know to use such features
[01:58] <kiko> great.
[01:58] <lifeless> mpt: TDD - *everything* is tested.
[01:58] <lifeless> mpt: test suites are just code.
[01:58] <jblack> I don't have the emails here anymore. They'll be in the launchpad-errors list archives though
[01:59] <mpt> "TDD"?
[01:59] <lifeless> test driven design
[01:59] <kiko> jblack, can you fish some out so we can start waving them around the datacenter logs?
[01:59] <jblack> If you ignore the ones that report mirror failures (Those look like @BZR_ERROR) and failed to locks, the ones that remain are those.
[02:00] <kiko> jblack, cool. grab some and tell me/stub
[02:00] <kiko> there is an archive, sure
[02:02] <jblack> http://lists.canonical.com/mailman/private/launchpad-error-reports/Week-of-Mon-20060116/019389.html
[02:03] <kiko> ddaa, is optional-branch-title essential for the 30th deadline you have?
[02:03] <kiko> jblack, can you pick one that didn't happen on tuesday?
[02:04] <jblack> http://lists.canonical.com/mailman/private/launchpad-error-reports/Week-of-Mon-20060116/019575.html
[02:04] <kiko> jblack, could that be, I wonder, a timeout?
[02:04] <kiko> the latter one I mean
[02:04] <kiko> do you have one in which self.fp is None on a day other than tuesday?
[02:05] <jblack> Much further than this, and we get into bugs on the supermirror side.
[02:05] <jblack> So actually, its not as bad as I thought.
[02:06] <kiko> I want to seene in which self.fp is none on a day other than tuesday
[02:06] <kiko> tuesday morning was rollout
[02:07] <lifeless> kiko: no, its not
[02:07] <lifeless> (not essential that is)
[02:07] <kiko> hmmm?
[02:08] <jblack> All the sudden I can't get in to the list.
[02:08] <lifeless> 00:03 < kiko> ddaa, is optional-branch-title essential for the 30th deadline you have?
[02:08] <lifeless> ^^^ no.
[02:08] <kiko> okay.
[02:08] <kiko> cool.
[02:10] <kiko> bradb, did jamesh/kinnison answer your question on
[02:10] <kiko> Subject: How do I get from BinaryPackageName to DistroSourcePackage?
[02:10] <kiko> 
[02:10] <kiko> -- 
[02:10] <kiko> ?
[02:12] <jblack> I'm going to bed. Kiko, I'll look it over closer when I get up.
[02:12] <jblack> Give you pretty numbers and stuff. 
[02:12] <kiko> cool.
[02:12] <kiko> thanks jblack 
[02:12] <kiko> and get URLs in the output
[02:12] <kiko> it's hard to debug without them
[02:13] <jblack> There's only one url for that type of error. :) 
[02:13] <kiko> really?
[02:13] <kiko> what's that?
[02:13] <jblack> Really
[02:13] <jblack>                'branchlistsource': (str, "http://gangotri.ubuntu.com:9000/supermirror-pull-list.txt"),
[02:14] <jblack> Well, there's another kind of error actually, now that I think about it.
[02:14] <jblack> The branch detector can bomb too. I forgot to take care of that one.
[02:15] <jblack> You won't see any more urllibOpener or branchStreamToBranchlist (both are supermirror-pull-list errors) errors, as I've hidden them away.
[02:16] <kiko> cool.
[02:16] <jblack> I'll trap the branch detector ones after I wake. Thats not so common.
[02:16] <jblack> Though they'll become increasingly less uncommon over time
[02:17] <jblack> I suspect ddaa watches for those and prunes the list
[02:17] <kiko> right
[02:17] <jblack> Because I see each one of those only once or twice and they magically disapear
[02:23] <kiko> jamesh?
[02:25] <lifeless> night all
[02:25] <lifeless> I'll tweak story on monday
[02:26] <bradb> kiko: Haven't read that email yet. Reading now.
[02:30] <kiko> night lifeless 
[02:31] <ddaa> I heard you guys talking about me
[02:32] <kiko> it was only good things
[02:38] <ddaa> kiko: optional-branch-title is orthogonal to importd2bzr (that's the Jan. 31st deadline) but it's important for supermirror-sftp that spiv will put only RSN. Important as in "bugs will be filed within one hour if it's not fixed".
[02:38] <kiko> all right.
[02:39] <kiko> talk to daf about it, but it's not 0-day priority to me unless you make great waves about it
[02:39] <ddaa> jblack: I'm not doing any cleanup on the branch list...
[02:39] <ddaa> kiko: it's about one notch below "the sky will fall over if it's not done by next week".
[02:40] <daf> sounds important
[02:40] <daf> (I'm not really here -- making lunch)
[02:40] <ddaa> It just means we'll get some really wrong stuff in UI, and some incorrect (but easy to fix) entries in the DB.
[02:40] <spiv> ddaa: So..
[02:41] <kiko> spiv, you got mail fwded from me from ddaa
[02:41] <ddaa> spiv: maybe we can have a meeting with daf about that when he comes back from lunch?
[02:41] <spiv> ddaa: Well, the thing is we can cheat a little.
[02:41] <ddaa> Increase DB incorrectness to increase UI wrongness?
[02:42] <ddaa> hu.. I mean "decrease UI wrongness"
[02:42] <spiv> ddaa: In that the #1 thing is to not break existing functionality -- so it doesn't matter too much if initially the pages in lp for sftp branches don't work, so long as all the other pages (e.g. ones that already exist and list branches) work.
[02:42] <spiv> Although maybe that's not significantly easier than fixing all pages.
[02:43] <ddaa> I guess it sounds reasonable, but I do not like the idea of having broken pages popping up as people start pushing.
[02:43] <ddaa> IBM phone call
[02:43] <spiv> Me either, but it's less bad than them not being able to push at all :)
[02:45] <ddaa> I think we would need to be more specific. Depending on how much you can (or cannot) reasonably make-up for it, it might be reasonable to delay push sftp for a one or two weeks.
[02:45] <ddaa> It's important functionality but it's not critical.
[02:45] <ddaa> thus my suggestion for a meeting with daf.
[02:46] <ddaa> also, my branch fixes a few related but not-really-critical issues.
[02:46] <ddaa> like displaying the SM URL for a branch.
[02:57] <carlos> see you later
[03:16] <daf> ddaa: I'm back
[03:16] <ddaa> daf: spiv: #canonical-meeting?
[03:30] <bradb> kiko: Do you want to drive-by the filebug package guesser patch when I've cleaned up the diff a few minutes from now?
[03:32] <kiko> bradb, maybe
[03:35] <crevette> hello
[03:35] <crevette> I need help to request a fix upstrema in malone
[03:35] <crevette> :)
[03:35] <kiko> heh
[03:35] <crevette> first time I'm doing it
[03:35] <crevette> :)
[03:36] <crevette> i clicked "Upstream'
[03:36] <crevette> and I choose the faulty software
[03:36] <kiko> very good so far
[03:36] <crevette> but malone said  me "CAUTION !!  WARNING!!! error appeared"
[03:36] <crevette> :)
[03:36] <kiko> that's a bug.
[03:36] <crevette> total destruction
[03:36] <crevette> :)
[03:36] <kiko> matsubara may know about it. matsubara?
[03:36] <kiko> crevette, what's the oops ID?
[03:37] <crevette> OOPS-19D394
[03:37] <crevette> for bug https://launchpad.net/products/xchat-gnome/+bug/28995/+upstreamtask
[03:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28995: "x-g doesn't follow color settings" Fix req. for: xchat-gnome (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[03:37] <crevette> ups
[03:38] <crevette> sorry
[03:42] <matsubara> crevette: what was the product you requested a fix in?
[03:42] <crevette> xchat-gnome
[03:42] <crevette> I've open the bug upstream 
[03:42] <crevette> and wanted to add a watch on it form malone
[03:43] <crevette> from
[03:44] <matsubara> crevette: it seems you've run into bug 5757, could you confirm that?
[03:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5757: "Oops from making a second fix request for the same product" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: In Progress http://launchpad.net/bugs/5757
[03:44] <kiko> one day matsubara might even fix that!
[03:45] <crevette> yep
[03:46] <crevette> but i don't really understand 
[03:46] <crevette> what means "second fix request for the same product"
[03:46] <kiko> bug 2788
[03:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2788: "videolan and ubuntu-doc imports failed ('R' not implemented)" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: David Allouche, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/2788
[03:47] <crevette> I did exactly what Nicolas explained in the first comment
[03:47] <crevette> what should I enter in product ? 
[03:49] <matsubara> crevette: the bug was already open with a request in xchat-gnome product. 
[03:50] <matsubara> crevette: it should give you a nice message like: "this request is already placed for that product", instead of crashing.
[03:51] <crevette> I really don't understadn
[03:51] <crevette> hum ok
[03:52] <kiko> hey ddaa 
[03:52] <ddaa> kiko: in meeting...
[03:52] <kiko> k
[03:59] <bradb> kiko: Should I send you the diff? (12 files changed, 190 insertions(+), 61 deletions(-))
[03:59] <kiko> bradb, pastebin it
[03:59] <bradb> ok
[04:02] <bradb> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileQeBbWK.html
[04:02] <bradb> kiko: Commenting out the timeouts makes pdb debugging possible again. stub suggested the commenting out as the way to fix it.
[04:03] <kiko> ok
[04:04] <kiko> bradb, queryByName is a strange method name
[04:04] <kiko> isn't the standard getByName?
[04:04] <bradb> get and query mean different things
[04:04] <kiko> perhaps
[04:04] <kiko> but this returns an object or none
[04:04] <kiko> so that seems to be get to me
[04:05] <bradb> That's what query means. ;)
[04:05] <kiko> uhm
[04:05] <kiko> can you list prior art in our codebase?>
[04:05] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/bugtask.py:            release = getUtility(IDistroReleaseSet).queryByName(
[04:05] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/database/binarypackagename.py:    def queryByName(self, name):
[04:06] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/database/distrorelease.py:    def queryByName(self, distribution, name):
[04:06] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/database/sourcepackagename.py:    def queryByName(self, name):
[04:06] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/binarypackagename.py:    def queryByName(name):
[04:06] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/distrorelease.py:    def queryByName(distribution, name):
[04:06] <bradb> ./lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/sourcepackagename.py:    def queryByName(name):
[04:06] <kiko> and for getByName()?
[04:06] <bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-smallfixes $ greppy "def getByName" | wc -l
[04:06] <bradb> 23
[04:06] <kiko> interesting.
[04:07] <bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-smallfixes $ greppy "def getByName(" | wc -l
[04:07] <bradb> 13
[04:09] <kiko> so what does this mean I wonder?
[04:09] <bradb> We seem to not follow conventions though. Python seems to use "get" the way Zope 3 uses "query", and Launchpad code seems to do both.
[04:09] <kiko> inconsistency already exists? :)
[04:09] <kiko> which way do you believe in?
[04:09] <bradb> I'm used to "query" meaning return None if the object doesn't exist, and "get" meaning raise an exception.
[04:10] <bradb> I'd prefer that, but I'm sure it can be argued either way.
[04:10] <kiko> I see.
[04:10] <spiv> For bonus points, SQLObject automatically creates "byName" if you set "alternateID=True" on the name column.
[04:10] <spiv> (on the content object itself, not the set, of course)
[04:11] <kiko> right, I was about to say this is in the set
[04:11] <spiv> Yeah.  Just a little something to add to the confusion.
[04:12] <spiv> I think SQLObject is slowly moving towards making that sort of thing be methods of the column attribute, which is cleaner than auto-generated methods.
[04:12] <spiv> Anyway, I'll let you get back to talking about real stuff :)
[04:18] <kiko> stub don't call me padrino
[04:20] <kiko> hey mpt
[04:20] <kiko>              <li>
[04:20] <kiko>                <a href="/products/launchpad-cal/+bugs">Calendar</a>
[04:20] <kiko> +            </li>
[04:20] <kiko> +            <li>
[04:20] <kiko> +              <a href="/products/soyuz/+bugs">distribution management</a>
[04:20] <kiko> doesn't that look inconsistent capitalization?
[04:20] <kiko> look like
[04:24] <daf> it does
[04:24] <kiko> weird.
[04:25] <daf> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadCapitalization
[04:25] <kiko> that was mpt's patch, though.
[04:25] <daf> hmm
[04:25] <kiko> I just filed 28999
[04:25] <kiko> darn.
[04:25] <kiko> I so wanted 29k
[04:26] <daf> maybe you can get 29292
[04:29] <janimo> is switching to bzr for world imports planned in the same time with soyuz rollout?
[05:00] <mgalvin> before i open a bug i thought i would explain this... i opened a bug http://launchpad.net/bugs/28660 but it does not show up in my reportedbugs list https://launchpad.net/people/mgalvin/+reportedbugs
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28660: "hal does not recognize writing capability of firewire CD drive" Fix req. for: hal (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Martin Pitt, Status: Needs Info
[05:00] <mgalvin> might this be a known issue b/c of the migration or something?
[05:01] <bradb> mgalvin: It's a known issue.
[05:01] <mgalvin> bradb: k, thanks
[05:02] <janimo> hey, I created a new project (Xfce) can I add an existing product to it?
[05:02] <janimo> add a product does not allow me to chose from existing ones, I must enter the details from 0
[05:02] <janimo> I have the thunar product already regsitered and would like to add it to the xfce project
[05:03] <janimo> also, can products be deleted - there's one called xfce but it should be a project instead
[05:03] <bradb> mgalvin: bug 4201 for the +reportedbugs + Needs Info status bugs not showing
[05:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4201: "Bugs with NeedInfo status should be displayed on open bugs query." Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Needs Info http://launchpad.net/bugs/4201
[05:04] <bradb> mgalvin: bug 28697 is a related problem
[05:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28697: "Bug lists should show current search filter" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/28697
[05:05] <mgalvin> bradb: thnx a lot, i will keep an eye on those :)
[05:05] <bradb> no prob
[05:06] <daf> janimo: you can set the project here: https://launchpad.net/products/thunar/+edit
[05:06] <janimo> daf, thanks
[05:06] <daf> it's the "Edit Product Details" link
[05:11] <janimo> when is the switch to bzr imports due?
[05:27] <daf> bradb: yo
[05:27] <bradb> daf: hi
[05:28] <daf> I can't work out where sourcepackage-bugs.pt is used
[05:29] <daf> given that it's not used for, e.g. /distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox/+bugs
[05:30] <bradb> daf: It's used to list bugs on the confusingly named ISourcePackage.
[05:31] <bradb> daf: e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/warty/+source/mozilla-firefox/+bugs
[05:31] <daf> ah
[05:33] <daf> bradb: I'm comparing
[05:33] <daf> http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox/+bugs
[05:33] <daf> http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/warty/+source/mozilla-firefox/+bugs
[05:33] <daf> the former shows bug 1, the latter shows bug 1 and bug 5
[05:33] <daf> why would that be?
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1: "Microsoft has a majority market share" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5: "Plone Placeless Translation Service metadata missing from po files" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Dafydd Harries, Status: Fix Committed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5
[05:33] <daf> yeah, shut up
[05:34] <Nafallo> hehe
[05:35] <Nafallo> Ubugtu has a rough time. when he's not saying anything people complain and when he does people complain :-P.
[05:36] <bradb> daf: Because bug #5 has only a task targeting it to be fixed in warty.
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5: "Plone Placeless Translation Service metadata missing from po files" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Dafydd Harries, Status: Fix Committed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5
[05:36] <bradb> That situation can't happen in production. The sample data is corrupt.
[05:36] <daf> ahh
[05:37] <daf> this reminds me of my idea to generate the sample data through Python code
[05:37] <daf> anyhow, thanks
[05:38] <bradb> daf: I much prefer using Python code to generate sample data too, FWIW. ;)
[05:43] <bradb> kiko-fud: How the filebug package guesser patch looking?
[05:43] <bradb> s/How/How's/
[05:45] <kiko-fud> bradb, I looked at it. I think it's generally okay. salgado needs to look at the vocab changes.
[05:45] <bradb> Ok, I'll bug salgado about the vocab changes, thanks.
[05:46] <bradb> salgado!
[05:47] <salgado> me? why me?
[05:48] <bradb> salgado: kiko-fud suggested you sign off on the BinaryAndSourcePackageNameVocabulary at: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileQeBbWK.html
[05:49] <bradb> salgado: Do you have a few mins to spare to look at it? I can provide context.
[05:49] <salgado> I can't do that right now. I'm reviewing cprov's branch
[05:49] <bradb> ok
[05:49] <bradb> salgado: Can I ping you about it in about two hours?
[05:50] <salgado> I don't think I'll have it finished in 2h. I still have almost 6000 lines to review
[05:50] <bradb> Madness.
[06:30] <lamont__> jblack: fresh dapper install on an i386 box, with postfix 2.2.8-5, can't reproduce the really funky 2nd errors you were getting...
[06:31] <ddaa> OH MY GOD
[06:31] <ddaa> importd on production is working because
[06:31] <ddaa> of a bug in the python2.4-subversion packaging!
[06:31] <kiko> bradb, do you find it possible that we issue 580 queries for a single request?
[06:31] <kiko> ddaa, you mean a FEATURE
[06:32] <daf> kiko: what was that you said about O(n) being bad?
[06:32] <kiko> as in database queries
[06:32] <ddaa> kiko: no, there are leftover .pyc and .pyo files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-package/svn/ without associated py file...
[06:32] <kiko> daf, I need a blanket and my barbies now
[06:32] <ddaa> the correspond to an API change that breaks cscvs
[06:32] <daf> ddaa: that's awesome
[06:32] <kiko> no it's not
[06:32] <daf> in a really bad way
[06:32] <ddaa> that's HORRIBLE!
[06:33] <kiko> daf, can you, just to double-check me, say how many db queries /malone issues to render a single page?
[06:33] <daf> sure thang
[06:33] <ddaa> like, should I rollout Kamion's patch before fixing that?
[06:34] <ddaa> knowing that I cannot run the test suite here...
[06:34] <daf> kiko: can't see it all 'less you're flying by
[06:34] <ddaa> but it will probably work in production...
[06:34] <ddaa> kiko: what do YOU think???
[06:35] <kiko> ddaa, I think we should revert to using an older version of pysvn.
[06:36] <kiko> potentially including it in our tree.
[06:36] <ddaa> well... the thing is that the fuck up comes from I asked elmo to upgrade the importd hosts to breezy...
[06:37] <daf> kiko: I count 421
[06:38] <kiko> oh I feel much better now daf
[06:38] <daf> me too
[06:38] <daf> hmm, several of those seem to be blank
[06:39] <daf> grepping those out yields 366
[06:39] <daf> 26 of those are END
[06:39] <daf> still not good
[06:40] <ddaa> kiko: you really want me to ask elmo to _downgrade_ the TWO python/svn bindings we use on the 6 concerned systems? Then the issue is that I cannot run the test suite unless I downgrade here too...
[06:40] <kiko>      43  launchpad@launchpad_dev LOG:  statement: SELECT Person.id, Person.defaultrenewalperiod, Person.pos
[06:40] <kiko> tcode, Person.subscriptionpolicy, Person.teamowner, Person.merged, Person.displayname, Person.password, Per
[06:40] <kiko> son.name, Person.familyname, Person.datecreated, Person.calendar, Person.teamdescription, Person.givenname,
[06:40] <kiko>  Person.country, Person.addressline2, Person.addressline1, Person.city, Person.emblem, Person.hackergotchi,
[06:40] <kiko>  Person.phone, Person.defaultmembershipperiod, Person.timezone, Person.province, Person.karma, Person.organ
[06:40] <kiko> ization, Person.homepage_content FROM Person WHERE  ((Person.name = 'admins') AND (Person.merged IS NULL)) 
[06:40] <ddaa> I think it would be simpler just to fix cscvs...
[06:40] <kiko> ORDER BY displayname, familyname, givenname, name
[06:40] <kiko> that is 43 times that same query.
[06:40] <kiko> I wonder which one timed out. 
[06:40] <daf> no way
[06:40] <ddaa> assumping it can be done simply...
[06:40] <kiko> ddaa, let me privmsg you on this 
[06:42] <daf> kiko: also 43 of SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Person WHERE ((Person.name = 'admins') AND (Person.merged IS NULL))
[06:42] <daf> probably not a coincidence
[06:42] <kiko> probably not.
[06:42] <kiko> how can we make this hurt less, I wonder.
[06:43] <daf> 34 counts of SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Person WHERE ((Person.name = 'launchpad') AND (Person.merged IS NULL))
[06:43] <daf> well, it would be nice to know the code paths issuing these queries
[06:43] <daf> putting some trace code in sqlos would do that for us
[06:43] <kiko> daf, yeah. I think I'm going to stick a traceback.print_stack() somewhere.
[06:44] <daf> go for it
[06:44] <kiko> I'll send a lot out with some statistics at some point.
[06:46] <daf> well, there's an obvious one:
[06:46] <daf> 5 queries for BugTasks
[06:46] <daf> i.e. the 5 shown on the front page
[06:47] <daf> also 5 queries like SELECT COUNT(*) FROM BugTask WHERE bug=6
[06:47] <daf> 27 queries of the session data
[06:48] <kiko> why are we doing select count()s again? 
[06:48] <daf> SELECT COUNT(*) FROM SessionData WHERE client_id = ...;
[06:48] <kiko> zpt/list crap like salgado and spiv discussed right?
[06:49] <daf> I can't remember
[06:49] <daf> is that the SQLObject.__len__ issue?
[06:49] <kiko> yeah.
[06:49] <daf> jamesh has branches that fix that
[06:50] <daf> in spiv's review queue
[06:50] <kiko> really now
[06:50] <daf> don't know if it will instantly reduce the number of queries
[07:02] <kiko> bradb, can you check out the patch in your inbox?
[07:19] <ddaa> Okay, the fix appears to be trivial.
[07:19] <ddaa> so trivial I'm going to merge it as [trivial] , just import from svn.core instead of svn.util
[07:20] <ddaa> (provided I _can_ merge anything)
[07:56] <ddaa> Can somebody lend me a pair of eyeballs
[07:56] <ddaa> 'Commit message [fix compatibility with python-svn-1.2 [trivial] ]  does not match commit_re [.*([rR] [sS] ?=[^ \\t] +)|(\\[[Tt] [Rr] [Ii] [Vv] [Ii] [Aa] [Ll] \\] )] '
[07:56] <ddaa> what's wrong?
[07:57] <ddaa> mh... [[trivial] ]  maybe?
[08:03] <ddaa> does not work either...
[08:04] <kiko> ddaa, [trivial]  needs to appear at the beginning of the string.
[08:11] <bradb> salgado: Still busy reviewing cprov's patch?
[08:31] <kiko> bradb, correct me if I'm wrong -- we have no default assignee, right?
[08:38] <bradb> Correct.
[08:38] <kiko> bradb, is bug 5940 still applicable?
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5940: "The assignee should be listed as a subscriber" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5940
[08:38] <kiko> bradb, bug 901 is a goner
[08:39] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug.
[08:39] <bradb> kiko: Yeah. When a person is assigned to the bug, Malone isn't very smart about putting them in the Cc list.
[08:39] <bradb> This causes some strange things to happen, e.g., when the bug is private.
[08:45] <cyberix> jordi: .
[08:45] <kiko> I didn't know that.
[08:47] <jordi> cyberix: yeah?
[08:49] <cyberix> jordi: Should something have happened?
[08:54] <ddaa> daf: ping
[08:54] <kiko> bradb, you can't add bug contacts for other people -- not even launchpad admins, right?
[08:57] <bradb> kiko: You could with some URL hacking.
[08:58] <jordi> cyberix: not yet
[08:59] <kiko> bradb, really?
[08:59] <kiko> example?
[09:01] <cyberix> jordi: Do I have to do something?
[09:01] <bradb> kiko: one sec, I have to read the code to make a URL
[09:05] <bradb> Damn. Yet *again* my Ubuntu laptop just spontaneously shut off.
[09:09] <carlos> bradb, could be that the temperature is too high?
[09:09] <kiko> carlos, are you on dapper?
[09:09] <carlos> kiko, yes
[09:10] <bradb> carlos: dunno, but the machine doesn't seem too hot
[09:11] <kiko> carlos, is your x41 overheating?
[09:11] <bradb> kiko: Anyway, just go to /distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox/+subscribe and submit the form with a GEt.
[09:11] <bradb> s/GEt/GET/
[09:11] <carlos> kiko, no
[09:11] <carlos> kiko, is bradb's computer
[09:13] <kiko> carlos, mine is.
[09:14] <carlos> kiko, oh
[09:14] <carlos> kiko, mine is working perfectly
[09:14] <carlos> kiko, except for the sleep mode or hibernation
[09:16] <kiko> daf, I just cut 200 queries out of startup time.
[09:16] <kiko> with changes to one file
[09:17] <kiko> no way dude
[09:17] <kiko> but it's true
[09:22] <salgado> kiko, what you did?
[09:24] <kiko> salgado, see email to launchpad
[09:27] <bradb> salgado: Any chance you'll have time today to drive-by my patch's vocabulary code?
[09:29] <salgado> bradb, I don't want to context switch now, and I have't finished it. I'd suggest you to ask someone else to review if you can't wait
[09:30] <bradb> Sure. I know what you mean. No problem.
[09:31] <seb128> bradb: you want to do a list like
[09:32] <seb128> [09:32] <seb128> -
[09:32] <seb128> -
[09:32] <seb128> -
[09:32] <seb128> [09:32] <seb128> etc ?
[09:32] <bradb> Maybe.
[09:32] <seb128> would be nice :)
[09:32] <bradb> Trying to find the real estate for this report is driving down neuropathways I don't have.
[09:32] <seb128> btw when is this "comment from settings page" update coming?
[09:33] <bradb> Next Tuesday, I think. kiko, is Tuesday the next prod rollout?
[09:34] <seb128> k
[09:34] <kiko> bradb, I need to talk to stub about this -- there's the soyuz rollout, remember.
[09:35] <bradb> ok
[09:35] <ddaa> How comes all the launcphad mailing lists are now on ubuntu.com?
[09:35] <ddaa> e.g. List-Id: Launchpad development discussion <launchpad.lists.ubuntu.com>   
[09:36] <ddaa> Doesn't that confuses the issue about Launchpad not being ubuntu-specific?
[09:37] <bradb> kiko: Should I send my +filebug package guesser patch to jamesh then?
[09:40] <kiko> bradb, I can probably look at it when I finish this (important) email
[09:40] <bradb> kiko: You mean review the vocabs part of the code?
[09:40] <kiko> well, yeah
[09:40] <bradb> ok, that'd be excellent
[09:59] <elmo> ddaa: fixed
[10:00] <ddaa> elmo: what is fixed?
[10:00] <ddaa> I know you've been less than quick at fixing requests in the past, but now you are fixing BEFORE I ask...
[10:01] <ddaa> which is a bit unsettling...
[10:01] <elmo> bah
[10:01] <elmo> the list-id thing
[10:01] <ddaa> ha, thank you
[10:01] <ddaa> I thought it might have been intentional
[10:25] <jordi> cyberix: nope, I first need to get the team created.
[10:25] <jordi> Which takes me to carlos.
[10:26] <jordi> carlos: so, here comes a new team. Quicker than I expected, but...
[10:26] <carlos> jordi, give me the info and I will create it
[10:26] <jordi> carlos: as we discussed when we created the GNU team, we now need a "translation project" group.
[10:26] <jordi> carlos: ok, name is translation-project
[10:26] <jordi> and description; let me look at the GNU group desc
[10:27] <jordi> cyberix: what's your launchpad username?
[10:27] <carlos> jordi, is it different from https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/gnu-translators ?
[10:27] <jordi> yes
[10:27] <jordi> we discussed when creating that one
[10:27] <carlos> I think we should fix the name then
[10:28] <jordi> GNU translators is only for people who translate GNU packages which require the translation disclaimer
[10:28] <jordi> translation project is for the rest of domains in the TP
[10:28] <jordi> ie, gcc would go to GNU, while gstreamer would go to TP
[10:30] <carlos> is I think it's confusing....
[10:31] <jordi> The Translation Project <http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation/> is in charge of maintaining the localisations of many popular free software projects. [contd] 
[10:31] <jordi> well, I see no other way.
[10:31] <jordi> GNU translators can only be composed of people who have their paperwork done with the FSF.
[10:31] <jordi> else their translations will never be merged upstream for copyright issues.
[10:32] <carlos> jordi, Unofficial GNU translators?
[10:34] <jordi> they are not GNU translators.
[10:34] <jordi> They don't translate GNU software
[10:34] <jordi> They translate non-GNU packages in the T ranslation Project
[10:34] <carlos> oh
[10:35] <carlos> I thought the Translation project was only for GNU projects....
[10:35] <jordi> there's this missconception since many years
[10:35] <jordi> but many non-GNU packages use it too
[10:35] <jordi> gstreamer, for example
[10:35] <jordi> or some freedesktop things
[10:35] <carlos> oh, right, I forgot that
[10:37] <carlos> anyway, I think people will be a bit confused with those translation teams..
[10:38] <carlos> jordi, I need the title and the summary
[10:39] <Alinux> boys I think  #ubuntu-translators isn't popular...
[10:39] <jordi> carlos: I can't think of anything better.
[10:39] <jordi> what do you mean?
[10:39] <Alinux> can you include it into topic?
[10:41] <Alinux> I mean advertisement.
[10:41] <Alinux> Alinux = off
[10:44] <jordi> The Translation Project <http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation/> is in charge of maintaining the localisations of many popular free software projects that don't have their own localisation infrastructure.
[10:44] <jordi> I can't think of anything better right now.
[10:45] <jordi> as for a title, what about "The Translation Project group"? Having "translation" in their name makes it difficult.
[10:52] <carlos> ok
[10:53] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/translation-project
[10:53] <jordi> carlos: we can improve the description later
[10:54] <jordi> carlos: actually I notice that if yo use the link I provided, their website is full of 404's
[10:54] <jordi> can you add a .../HTML/ to it?
[10:54] <carlos> yes
[10:55] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/translation-project
[10:55] <jordi> thanks dude :)
[10:55] <jordi> ok, now we need to assign cyberix as the Finnish team.
[10:55] <jordi> I don't know his id tho
[10:57] <jordi> carlos: https://launchpad.net/people/toni-ruottu
[10:57] <jordi> carlos: he should be appointed for fi
[10:57] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/people/toni-ruottu
[10:57] <carlos> yeah
[10:58] <carlos> done
[10:59] <jordi> great, thanks carlos
[10:59] <jordi> cyberix: ping
[10:59] <kiko> carlos, I am going to KILL for activity reports soon
[10:59] <kiko> it will be very very ugly
[10:59] <kiko> valencia will be a bloodbath
[10:59] <kiko> only people that live behind doors with activity reports written in lambs blood on them will be saved
[11:00] <jordi> oh man
[11:00] <carlos> and starts writing the reports
[11:00] <jordi> my mom won't be able to recognize my corpse :/
[11:00] <kiko> the firstborn child of each activity report debtor will be forced to write pdp-11 assemby cross-compiled on a primos with the code stored in a 50 gig BAZ 
[11:00] <kiko> tree
[11:01] <jordi> haha
[11:01] <kiko> no
[11:01] <jordi> the baz bit is like a bit too much
[11:01] <kiko> pdp-8 assembly
[11:01] <kiko> we can get the hardware downgraded
[11:01] <carlos> kiko, dude you scared my girlfriend
[11:02] <carlos> she's not going to want anything from me now....
[11:02] <jordi> does your girlfriend read #launchpad?
[11:02] <kiko> until you pay your dues
[11:02] <carlos> so I must stop being a debtor....
[11:02] <jordi> you just scared med
[11:02] <jordi> -d
[11:03] <carlos> jordi, no, I'm talking with she on the phone atm
[11:03] <jordi> oh
[11:04] <LarstiQ> jordi: do you have any idea what to call Serbian Latin translations? Ie, for cyrillic I use sr.po, but latin confuses me
[11:04] <jordi> LarstiQ: the established convention is sr@Latn
[11:06] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: r=kiko,salgado Fix for bug 6593: confusing constraint not satisfied message. Uses the correct validator for most (all?) places that used valid_name. Also fix for bug 28768: Search for Products on the Welcome to Launchpa page does nothing. Adds a proper test and fixes the HTML for the input field, doh. Patches by Diogo Matsubara <matsubara@async.com.br> (r3017: Diogo Matsubara, kiko)
[11:06] <LarstiQ> jordi: I'll go with that then
[11:07] <LarstiQ> jordi: I came across something about gnome/glibc default to cyrillic/latin differing, any idea what that is about?
[11:08] <jordi> LarstiQ: it's about Ulrich Drepper being stubborn as you can't imagine, and rejecting the established, de-facto convention everyone is using.
[11:09] <jordi> He wants sr to be latin, sr@cirillic to be the cirillic
[11:09] <jordi> no matter what Danilo Segan says, or anything
[11:10] <LarstiQ> Oh, I'm fairly good at imagining how stubborn he can be.
[11:11] <jordi> hehe
[11:11] <LarstiQ> jordi: thanks for the information.
[11:11] <jordi> np!
[11:11] <jordi> what project is this?
[11:12] <LarstiQ> jordi: blender
[11:12] <LarstiQ> jordi: I might bother you sometime in the future about officially using Rosetta for it too
[11:12] <carlos> LarstiQ, we need to add active support for that kind of po file names
[11:13] <carlos> we can store them but rosetta is not able to translate them
[11:13] <LarstiQ> carlos: the main thing I'm worried about right now is it actually being usable on end user systems
[11:13] <jordi> LarstiQ: cool
[11:13] <carlos> LarstiQ, GNOME is using it since long ago
[11:13] <LarstiQ> carlos: on a more general scope, our current translation approach is not working at all
[11:14] <carlos> so I suppose it should work...
[11:14] <LarstiQ> but lets first get this 2.41 release out of the door :)
[11:16] <cyberix> jordi: cyberix :-)
[11:17] <cyberix> jordi: https://launchpad.net/people/toni-ruottu/
[11:17] <jordi> cyberix: hey
[11:17] <jordi> cyberix: ok, everything is ready
[11:17] <cyberix> jordi: Great. (What does that mean ;-)
[11:18] <jordi> you're a member of the Translation Project team :)
[11:18] <cyberix> Ok
[11:18] <cyberix> Great now I can...
[11:19] <jordi> cyberix: now we need to import this GNUnet thing.
[11:58] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[12:03] <ajmitch> afternoon mpt :)
[12:03] <LarstiQ> good night both ;)