[02:53] <mdz> JaneW: would you start checking that everyone is present (excepting Keybuk)?
[02:53] <JaneW> sure
[02:54] <JaneW> ping: BenC, daniels, dholbach, doko  
[02:54] <dholbach> pong
[02:55] <JaneW> ping: fabbione, infinity, iwj, jbailey
[02:55] <doko> JaneW: pong
[02:55] <daniels> JaneW: pong
[02:56] <JaneW> pink: kamion, Mithrandir, mjg59, mvo  
[02:56] <pitti> hi
[02:56] <JaneW> hi mvo
[02:56] <pitti> JaneW: pink?
[02:56] <ogra_> yellow
[02:56] <JaneW> grin
[02:56] <JaneW> seb128? Riddell? 
[02:57] <Riddell> hi all
[02:57] <JaneW> hi BenC
[02:57] <BenC> hello
[02:57] <JaneW> hi seb128 
[02:57] <seb128> hey JaneW
[02:57] <JaneW> ok who is missing?
[02:57] <seb128> sorry if I'm late, my computer clock says :58
[02:58] <JaneW> Mithrandir: ?
[02:58] <pitti> seb128: mine too :)
[02:58] <JaneW> seb128: no we have 2 minutes to get everyone here, so we can start on the hour
[02:58] <seb128> alright ;)
[02:58] <Kamion> here
[02:59] <JaneW> just Mithrandir , Riddell and mjg59 missing still by my reckoning
[02:59] <Kamion> 13:57 < Riddell> hi all
[02:59] <JaneW> oh sorry, there he is
[02:59] <JaneW> hi Riddel
[02:59] <Riddell> hi JaneW :)
[03:00] <mdz> good morning all
[03:00] <mdz> everyone accounted for?
[03:00] <JaneW> Mithrandir...
[03:00] <BenC> Mith was awake a short while ago
[03:01] <JaneW> and mgj59 still MIA
[03:01] <JaneW> shall we start in the mean time?
[03:01] <BenC> well, 5 hours ago I guess
[03:01] <mdz> yeah, it's Mithrandir's core hours, so he's surely around. maybe stepped out
[03:01] <mdz> yes, let's get started
[03:02] <mdz> let's go in reverse order for variety
[03:02] <dholbach> haha :)
[03:02] <mdz> Riddell first
[03:03] <mdz> Riddell: ?
[03:04] <Riddell> mdz: still finishing my notes.. 1 minute
[03:04] <JaneW> tsk
[03:04] <mdz> ok, we'll come back to you.  in case it wasn't evident, you need to prepare in advance
[03:05] <mdz> is sivang around?
[03:05] <mdz> ok, seb128
[03:05] <seb128> GNOME: load of updates for GNOME 2.13.5 (sync with Debian before upload for a bunch, ubuntu patches update for new code), deal with new bugs and patched for some issues, load of bug triage
[03:05] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: some discussion on ubuntu-desktop about the session dialog, upstream changed the way they handle that ... what would be the right place to discuss what strategy we wants to take? Out of that no change, I just keep up with GNOME updates/bug load working full time (and doing extras hours too) on that. gdm changes are probably not trivial and I don't know the code, maybe we could try to bounty that (I'm not opposed working 
[03:05] <seb128> on that but there is a new GNOME every 2 weeks from npw)?
[03:06] <seb128> next week: dapper desktop plan and bug catchup
[03:06] <mdz> seb128: if there isn't a consensus among the desktop team, feel free to copy me on the session dialog stuff
[03:06] <mdz> seb128: any update on the menus-revised feedback?
[03:06] <seb128> mdz: there is some consensus but that doesn't match what Mark asked for
[03:07] <Mithrandir> pong
[03:07] <mdz> seb128: ok, then copy me and mark both
[03:07] <seb128> mdz: I've reactivated the window-properties capplet as discussed
[03:07] <seb128> and totem
[03:07] <seb128> out of that no real complain
[03:07] <seb128> we should be good
[03:07] <mdz> ok, so the stuff mjg59 posted was resolved?
[03:07] <seb128> correct
[03:07] <seb128> that's the window-properties capplet
[03:07] <infinity> mdz: Can I go next, so I can turn my eyes back to the buildds exploding?
[03:07] <seb128> we had a consensus on ubuntu-desktop to reactivate it
[03:08] <mdz> ok, cool
[03:08] <infinity> last week: No spec progress, lots of UVF preparation and last-minute merges, including PHP, MySQL, Subversion, and Thunderbird, to name some prominent ones.  Fixed glibc biarch issues last week as well, did some initramfs hacking, and some livefs hacking.
[03:08] <infinity> next week: Fix the current X mess in the next hour or two, then vacation and apache mini-sprint.
[03:08] <mdz> infinity: the idea is that everyone is here for the full meeting, otherwise we'd just email in updates
[03:08] <infinity> oh, and if I can squeeze it in before my flight, I'll upload a firefox that builds on amd64.
[03:09] <infinity> mdz: Oh, I thought that "ok, cool" was directed at me.
[03:09] <mdz> not for the sake of twiddling thumbs, but knowing what your teammates are doing and whether you have any role in it
[03:09] <doko> infinity: hurray firefox!
[03:10] <infinity> mdz: Indeed, I agree.  I would have just "phoned it in" anyway, except that I'm still around specifically because of the buildd/archive mess. :)
[03:10] <mdz> infinity: splash-down?
[03:10] <iwj> infinity: Do you know what's wrong with the amd64 ff ?
[03:10] <mdz> infinity: I only just woke up, what's the mess? (via PM please)
[03:10] <infinity> mdz: splash-down is a "at or immediately after the sprint" goal.
[03:10] <iwj> That was no.2 on my list today after the version number fuckup.
[03:11] <iwj> I was hoping the failure was the make syntax problem but it turns out not to be.
[03:11] <seb128> iwj: when you are going to break everything gecko related with a firefox upload that would be nice to ping me before so we are ready to fix GNOME, thank you :)
[03:11] <mdz> infinity: what's delaying it until then?  the earlier we get the boot/shutdown process sorted for dapper, then better
[03:11] <iwj> seb128: Um, I didn't know I was going to break everything.  Sorry :-/.
[03:11] <infinity> iwj: It looks like a fakeroot bug to me (which I mean to dig into later), but the quick fix should just be to pass -X'*libssl3*' to dh_shlibdeps.
[03:12] <infinity> mdz: What's delaying it before then is that I'm not around.
[03:12] <iwj> infinity: OK, thanks for the hint, I'll deal with it.
[03:12] <seb128> iwj: so when you upload firefox it would be nice you try starting epiphany or devhelp or yelp :)
[03:12] <iwj> seb128: OK, I can do that, NP.
[03:12] <mdz> infinity: oh, you're off next week
[03:12] <infinity> mdz: Right.
[03:12] <seb128> iwj: you changed some path mozilla-firefox to firefox, but no big deal a rebuild do the trick :)
[03:13] <infinity> mdz: Well, off, then apache stuff.
[03:13] <mdz> ok, thanks
[03:13] <infinity> mdz: If the apache stuff doesn't take all the time allotted, I'm sure I'll hit up other stuff to hack on too.
[03:13] <mdz> fabio is on leave
[03:13] <iwj> seb128: Right.  Um, I meant to leave a symlink behind IIRC.  But I will test next time.
[03:13] <mdz> JaneW: did he send anything he wanted passed on to the meeting?
[03:13] <seb128> iwj: thank you
[03:13] <pitti> (wouldn't ogra be next?)
[03:13] <JaneW> no I didn;t hear from him
[03:14] <mdz> pitti: yes, but since i was looking at infinity...
[03:14] <iwj> Sorry for fucking it up.  And really sorry for not thinking beyond `that's a slightly odd version number' to `that's probably wrong, actually'.
[03:14] <mdz> pitti: well, no, you'd be next actually ;-)
[03:14] <pitti> oh, heh
[03:14] <pitti> last week: security updates, lots of main inclusion reviews, packaged some new upstream versions, lots of CD testing, much cupsys love, sanitized sudo, added sudo hint for beginnersno progress on specs (ENOTIME), the remaining specs require a fair amount of intrusive work that will probably not happen any more for dapper; I rather want to concentrate on shaking out long-standing bugs now instead of adding new ones, if that is fine for mdz?
[03:14] <pitti> plan next week: give cups and printing some more love, some more audio bug fixing (sound card selector and .asoundrc handling are still in a bad state, I forgot about that, so I want to fix it before feature freeze), some more pending security updates
[03:15] <pitti> oh, sorry for the missing line break
[03:15] <daniels> 
[03:15] <mdz> pitti: remaining specs = automatic-printer-conf and langpacks-desktop-files?
[03:16] <pitti> mdz: the former requires a fair amount of new code and work, and zyga wanted to look into langpack support for .server files
[03:16] <pitti> it already works for .desktop for a while
[03:16] <pitti> I'm sure we can get .directory support for dapper at least
[03:16] <pitti> since it should be pretty easy
[03:16] <pitti> but I refered to the printer stuff, yes
[03:17] <mdz> ok, the printer stuff can slip
[03:17] <Kamion> argh, sorry, somebody from my letting agent has just called at the door about a fence repair; if I'm not around, please excuse me and I'll catch up at the end
[03:17] <pitti> I'd rather make cups less buggy than add hal-cups-utils and try to integrate it; it would probably require sb who knows more about gnome than me anyway
[03:18] <mdz> if someone is still working on .server files, let's keep that on the roadmap for dapper
[03:18] <pitti> yes, we shouldn't drop that one yet
[03:19] <pitti> we have the spec 50% implemented already
[03:19] <mdz> please track what is happening with it, or make sure that zyga communicates with janew or attends the meeting if he is working on it
[03:19] <pitti> ok, I'll do
[03:19] <mdz> thanks pitti
[03:19] <mdz> ogra: next
[03:19] <ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: further work on nbd network swapping.
[03:19] <ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: played with dash (found some bashisms in ltsp)
[03:19] <ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no progress, still need pictures .... mailed sabdfl...
[03:19] <ogra> * general: flight3 testing, assembled a ltsp lab with 5 thin clients i got, merge work
[03:19] <ogra> * next week: do a proper measuring of possible dash speedup, find a way for gdmsetup or gdm to change the theme from commandline for edubuntu-artwork, more ltsp work
[03:20] <Riddell> ogra: what was the problem with KDE starting this morning?
[03:20] <mdz> ogra: is nbd all that remains on -memory-usage?
[03:20] <JaneW> ogra: what about the flight 3 announcement?
[03:20] <ogra> mdz, nope, i'm waiting for a netboot patch to initramfs 
[03:21] <ogra> mdz, and dash might be a big win, i need to get more numbers
[03:21] <mdz> ogra: faster-startup is still drafting, with a comment from me in the spec
[03:21] <ogra> mdz, yes, will fix that 
[03:21] <ogra> Riddell, that was only a bug i have to inspect 
[03:21] <ogra> JaneW, will send it after the meeting
[03:22] <mdz> ogra: apart from sabdfl's photos, wasnt' the plan for default-image to ask for submissions from the community? has that happened?
[03:22] <JaneW> ogra: ok thanks
[03:22] <ogra> mdz, jdub wanted to care for that iirc with the other content stuff
[03:22] <ogra> mdz, worst case i'll just put up a package with the default background and we could do something like calendar
[03:23] <infinity> ogra: Tackle me at the sprint about all your initramfs needs.  I think half my time at the sprint will be hacking people's pet features into initramfs.
[03:23] <ogra> or even leave it like that
[03:23] <ogra> infinity, as i said, i'd be fine fixing my already existing patch :)
[03:23] <mdz> ogra: you own that spec, not jdub, so make sure that it doesn't get stalled
[03:23] <ogra> mdz, yes, thats why i described you the fallback 
[03:23] <ogra> its doable in 10 min ...
[03:24] <mdz> ogra: screen-saver?
[03:24] <ogra> what about it ? gnome-screensaver is in, the lock dialog looks ok, or doesnt it to you ? 
[03:25] <mdz> ogra: as of last week it was incomplete, and you didn't provide an update. is it finished or not?
[03:25] <infinity> Of course, we still have two screensavers on every upgraded system.
[03:25] <ogra> they rearranged the buttons like we have them in breezy, the rest of the design is pretty near to breezy, i'd call it implemented
[03:25] <Kamion> back, sorry about that
[03:25] <mdz> yes, one of the notes from last week was that the transition needs to be figured out
[03:25] <ogra> infinity, not with ubuntu-desktop installed
[03:26] <mdz> yes, with ubuntu-desktop installed
[03:26] <pitti> oh, does u-desktop conflict to xss?
[03:26] <mdz> you get both xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver
[03:26] <Kamion> pitti: no
[03:26] <Nafallo> ogra: yes. ubuntu-desktop doesn't remove things :-)
[03:26] <ogra> ah yes
[03:26] <pitti> would it hurt to have g-s-s conflict to x-s-s?
[03:26] <ogra> but since i'm not allowed to conflict the screensavers, it looks like chicken egg ...
[03:26] <Kamion> pitti: we've been over this in the breezy cycle
[03:27] <dholbach> pitti: keybuk won't like that. :-)
[03:27] <pitti> ok, /me shuts up
[03:27] <mdz> ogra: the upgrade tool will need to deal with this, talk with mvo
[03:27] <mvo> I could add it to the upgrade-tool (remove xss)
[03:27] <mdz> mvo: :-)
[03:27] <ogra> mvo, cool !
[03:27] <mdz> ogra: thanks
[03:27] <mdz> mvo: next
[03:27] <mvo> Did:
[03:27] <mvo> * dist-upgrade tool work:
[03:27] <mvo>   - can do breezy->dapper upgrades now
[03:27] <mvo>   - announced testversion on ubuntu-devel (to get some testing etc)
[03:27] <mvo>   - obsolete packages detection should work more reliable now
[03:27] <mvo>   - fixed some things in pyhton-apt along the way    
[03:27] <mvo>   - fixed various bug 
[03:28] <mvo>   [AutomaticUpgrades] 
[03:28] <mvo> * HIGification of update-manager, software-properties, language-selector
[03:28] <mvo> * gnome-app-install:
[03:28] <mvo>   - threading supper for external uris 
[03:28] <mvo>   - some work on improving the gnome-app-install ui 
[03:28] <mvo>   [ThirdPartyPackages] 
[03:28] <mvo> * various smaller stuff (apt, gksu, launchpad-integration, update-notifier, etc)
[03:28] <mvo> Next week:
[03:28] <mvo> - work on the ThirdPartyPackages spec and improving the g-a-i ui
[03:28] <mvo> - getting startup notification working with gksu
[03:28] <iwj> No, it's quite good like that.
[03:28] <mdz> mvo: any feedback from ubuntu-devel on the upgrade tool?
[03:29] <mvo> mdz: well, it currently breaks because of a transient problem with the new x :)
[03:29] <mvo> I picked a bad timing
[03:29] <mdz> ok
[03:29] <infinity> Should all be sorted in another cron.daily or two.
[03:29] <mdz> once that mess is sorted, maybe we should hit -devel-announce
[03:29] <mvo> but got quite a few people testing it so far, so once that is fixed, I'll ask for re-testing
[03:29] <mvo> mdz: sure, I can ask there too
[03:29] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[03:29] <mdz> JaneW: any update from mjg59?
[03:29] <JaneW> nope
[03:30] <JaneW> I pinged him, but have not had a response
[03:30] <mdz> ok
[03:30] <mdz> please keep trying
[03:30] <ogra> mdz, for power management we're waiting for an upstream fix 
[03:31] <mdz> ogra: blocking it, or as the only remaining piece?
[03:31] <mdz> wasn't there a daemon to be written?
[03:31] <ogra> mdz, blocking the upgrade to the last version of g-p-m
[03:31] <ogra> thats mjg59's part 
[03:31] <mdz> what about the daemon?
[03:31] <mdz> ok
[03:31] <ogra> i have no insight in this area 
[03:31] <mdz> Mithrandir: next
[03:31] <Mithrandir> openoffice-amd64: no progress	
[03:31] <Mithrandir> live-cd-performance: no further progress
[03:31] <Mithrandir> one-true-path: implemented	
[03:31] <Mithrandir> simplified-livecd: a fair chunk of keyboard selection stuff done, but not finished.  I found out a tad late that ckb is written in perl, so I'll have to rewrite that in C.  I have a sneaky plan on how to do that without wasting a lot of effort.
[03:31] <Mithrandir> livecd-unionfs: implemented, but has problems on powerpc.  BenC says it's fixed in -13
[03:31] <Mithrandir> misc: a lot more time has been spent fighting with X keyboard maps than I'd had hoped.  I've been trying to keep *-desktop installable, which is an interesting challenge.
[03:31] <Mithrandir> probe-for-root-filesystem: no progress
[03:32] <Mithrandir> blocked on: access to popcon.ubuntu.com, people stop breaking -desktop installability.
[03:32] <Mithrandir> next week: apache-mini-sprint, write lcxkb (linux console xkeyboard)
[03:32] <Mithrandir> (no idea how those tabs got into the end of lines)
[03:32] <BenC> _should be fixed_ in -13, I have to admit I haven't tested it
[03:32] <Mithrandir> mea culpa about the wording there.
[03:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: how much of live-cd-performance remains?
[03:32] <BenC> was my fault, I said "it was fixed" :)
[03:33] <BenC> Mithrandir: FYI, the fix was to disable debug, which should improve performance a lot
[03:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: "depends".  As it says in the status, we can squeeze more out, but it'll be a dimishing returns thing to do.
[03:33] <Mithrandir> BenC: yay
[03:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm going to play with -lzma a bit, and once scott's fixes for readahead hits the archive, I'll poke at those
[03:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, happy for us to stick to the low-hanging fruit for dapper, your call when to say it's enough
[03:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: when that's done, I think I'll call it done for dapper.
[03:34] <Mithrandir> we've already had _tremendous_ improvements.
[03:34] <mdz> ok
[03:34] <mdz> agreed
[03:34] <mdz> thanks
[03:34] <mdz> JaneW: lathiat, krstic, Keybuk?
[03:34] <JaneW> nothing from lathiat or krstic
[03:35] <JaneW> Keybuk: udev-roadmap: happy with the udev version, newer versions include
[03:35] <JaneW> support for kernels 2.6.16 and post but we're not shipping those.
[03:35] <JaneW> streamlined-boot: ifupdown and alsa mods done, ready for upload now
[03:35] <JaneW> Flight 3 is out.
[03:35] <JaneW> network-magic: still blocked on infinity for same reason's as last week
[03:35] <JaneW> misc: mom converstion to malone done, no outstanding necessary merges
[03:35] <BenC> wouldn't it be a good idea to include a udev that supports the possible next version of the kernel?
[03:36] <infinity> mjg59's lending me a laptop with atheros while I'm in London, so I can get madwifi-ng tested and in the archive, FWIW.
[03:36] <BenC> people have had lots of problems testing dapper kernels because the udev/hotplug upgrade didn't allow them to go back
[03:36] <mdz> JaneW: is udev-roadmap completed or no?
[03:36] <jbailey> BenC: udev is moving fast enough that we're not likely to get a udev that will actually support .17 or whatever we'll have for dapper+1
[03:36] <JaneW> yes implemented
[03:36] <jbailey> BenC: Also, half the problem was not being able to go back.
[03:37] <jbailey> BenC: I think newer udevs are a bit more firnedly that way.
[03:37] <BenC> hope so, but guess we wont know till we try it :)
[03:37] <mdz> JaneW: we need to unblock network-magic; please ask Keybuk if we can just scanning for atheros chips for the sake of getting it in and testing it
[03:38] <mdz> BenC: I suggest having a chat with Keybuk about what can be done there
[03:38] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[03:38] <mdz> we're way behind on time
[03:38] <mdz> Riddell: next, before I forget (I have a shallow stack this early in the morning)
[03:38] <Riddell> kubuntu-roadmap-dapper: sudo/iceauth fix done pending final testing, flight 3 testing
[03:38] <Riddell> kubuntu-documentation: build fixes, releasenotes is caught up, writers starting on quickguide now
[03:38] <Riddell> kubuntu-express: mostly done qtparted changes
[03:38] <Riddell> todo: KDE 3.5.1 packages
[03:38] <Riddell> blocking: kubuntu-system-tools need meeting with mdz, mornfall and me to sort bounty.  having an account to be able to update kubuntu.org would be really nice
[03:38] <mdz> Riddell: which bits of kubuntu-roadmap-dapper remain?
[03:39] <mdz> Riddell: account -> admin RT
[03:39] <Riddell> rt has been sent
[03:39] <Riddell> most of the deliverables of kubuntu-roadmap-dapper are in
[03:40] <Riddell> it's just tidying up what's broken (e.g. cups)
[03:40] <mdz> no remaining milestones then?
[03:41] <mdz> for these multipart specs what we need is a feel for how far along they are
[03:41] <JaneW> mdz: I have mailed keybuk
[03:41] <mdz> JaneW: thanks
[03:41] <Riddell> GStreamer 0.10 support would of course be nice, not sure how possible that is
[03:41] <mdz> eek, we're behind on time
[03:41] <mdz> Kamion: next
[03:41] <Kamion> ubuntu-express: Lots of bug fixes to the point where I can actually do an installation and the result boots, although a few things are wrong. Will be ready to upload an initial version next week (manual partitioning only, and strictly for the brave).
[03:41] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-copy-filesystem: Made espresso run casper-provided hooks, and gave Tollef a list of initial hooks to create.
[03:41] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-bootloader: Ready to do espresso-grub now, but semi-blocked on https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/2788; ddaa is working on merging my patch with high priority. If it doesn't get resolved today then I'll work around it.
[03:41] <Kamion> cd-bootloader: Started working on a keymap menu. Found that I need to do some pretty scary processing on Linux keymap files to make this work, but I'm nearly done with that now. Should be straightforward to convert to X keymap handling if/when we're ready for that elsewhere.
[03:42] <Kamion> misc: Flight CD 3. Some merge catch-up.
[03:42] <Kamion> next-week: Final merges. Finish cd-bootloader keymap support and do localised help. Initial espresso upload for developer testing.
[03:42] <mdz> Kamion: brave folks like ubuntu-devel?
[03:42] <Kamion> mdz: right
[03:42] <mdz> cool, looking forward to it
[03:43] <mdz> UE is looking good; at what point will it be possible to get someone started on the UI wokr?
[03:43] <Kamion> after the sprint, I should think
[03:43] <mdz> ok
[03:43] <Kamion> just after, I mean :)
[03:43] <mdz> thanks
[03:43] <Kamion> "2168"
[03:43] <pitti> ?
[03:43] <mdz> JaneW: I don't suppose there's an update from jdub
[03:43] <JaneW> nope
[03:44] <Kamion> the year 2168 is after the sprint, but rather further after than I meant
[03:44] <JaneW> I mailed silbs and she said she is working on a plan
[03:44] <pitti> heh, ok :)
[03:44] <pitti> Kamion: I thought it would be l33t sp34k or so
[03:44] <mdz> Kamion: please let SteveA/kiko know that 2788 is blocking very high-priority work so that it's on their radar, if you haven't already
[03:45] <mdz> jbailey: anything to report?
[03:45] <jbailey> LocalesThatDontSuck: Can we update to a newer locales snapshot from Belocs after UVF?  This involves some code updates for the localedef program.  If yes, when should be the stop date on that?  Otherwise, we should plan to backport a few changes and work around the slight format changes.
[03:45] <jbailey> ToolchainRoadmap: Thanks to Adam for finishing the biarch work.
[03:45] <jbailey> ToolchainRoadmapNg: i686 decision to be made in person with distroteam at the sprint.
[03:45] <jbailey> Other: Still in London at a sprint, will be back to regular work stuff on Monday from home.
[03:45] <jbailey> Packages: Haven't managed to hand off grub to zul yet - Still need to sync up for a round of bug triage.  If there's someone else with time who can help dive in, I'd appreciate it.
[03:45] <Kamion> mdz: ok
[03:45] <mdz> jbailey: newer snapshot doesn't sound too scary
[03:45] <mdz> stop date will depend on how things go
[03:45] <jbailey> mdz: No, I'm pretty happy with the idea.
[03:46] <mdz> jbailey: is there anything ubuntu-ish in the grub bug list or is it pretty much gardening for upstream bugs?
[03:46] <pitti> mdz: the new locales package is prepared and ready for upload, btw
[03:46] <jbailey> Pretty much just a pile of upstream bugs.  We haven't done anything new with it, so there's no regressions that I know of.
[03:46] <mdz> pitti: ok
[03:46] <mdz> ok
[03:46] <mdz> thanks jbailey
[03:46] <mdz> iwj: next
[03:46] <iwj> AutomatedTesting:  Tester core initial implementation finished.  I can run my one test test case (all of the upstream tests in `mawk', as one in the tests/control file).   I got diverted into ff again before I could turn it from a pile of code into a package.  This package will be in sid and dapper RSN.
[03:46] <iwj> AutomatedTesting: ...  Then I'll can document what I've done properly (with mails to {debian,ubuntu}-devel).  And try adding some tests to a few more interesting packages and playing with it some more.
[03:46] <iwj> Firefox:  Now synched with Debian and upstream 1.5; version number problems will be `fixed' today.
[03:46] <iwj> Firefox amd64 FTBFS:  I will also look into this today.  I may need some help from a toolchain expert by the looks of it.
[03:46] <iwj> Firefox: I seem to be establishing a reasonably good relationship with the Debian maintainers.
[03:46] <iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report.  I will pick this up properly when AutomatedTesting is done.
[03:46] <iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.
[03:46] <iwj> Bugs backlog: awful.  Don't get me started again about Malone.
[03:46] <iwj> Email backlog: not too bad if you ignore bug mails.
[03:47] <Kamion> jbailey: otavio (in Debian) is keen on helping us if we actually start sending him our patches a little more reliably :-)
[03:47] <Kamion> jbailey: (with grub)
[03:47] <iwj> Scratch that about a toolchain expert, if infinity is right about the amd64 ff problem.
[03:47] <mdz> iwj: have you talked with the sysadmins about a place to run the automated tests periodically?   would be very cool to be able to see the output published somewhere
[03:47] <jbailey> Kamion: Thanks for the heads up
[03:48] <iwj> mdz: No, I haven't done any of that at all.  I was going to publish the code first and then talk to the sysadmins about the right kind of glue they wanted.
[03:48] <iwj> They probably need a new virtualisation server (or options) or something.
[03:48] <mdz> iwj: I'd be interested in a typescript sort of demo of what you have, by email
[03:48] <mdz> iwj: thanks
[03:48] <mdz> doko: next
[03:48] <doko> status:
[03:48] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: amd64-biarch, all dependent packages (gcc* and lib32*) updated, binutils synced, spec is nearing the "implemented" status.
[03:48] <doko> - toolchain-dapper+1: blocked by preparation of wanna-build and buildd infrastructure (no change)
[03:48] <doko> - openoffice-gnome: not started (no change)
[03:48] <doko> - openoffice-help: implemented (no change)
[03:48] <iwj> mdz: Sure.  I'll put a transcript in my announcement when I make it.
[03:49] <doko> - openoffice-spellchecking: not started (no change)
[03:49] <doko> - native-java-gcj: infrastructure is ready, packaging of -gcj binary packages not started (no change)
[03:49] <doko> - java-roadmap: mostly done, pending are eclipse updates (blocked by firefox-dev/mozilla-dev) and the native-java-gcj support, delaying that in favour of an openoffice.org-gcj package
[03:49] <doko> - python-roadmap: proposal implemented, testing outside the archive now.
[03:49] <doko> this week:
[03:49] <doko> - openoffice.org: fix installability issue, ongoing merging with Debian unstable, setup baz archive for the debian/ parts
[03:49] <doko> - python-roadmap: python-central update, uploaded to people.ubuntu.com
[03:49] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: biarch updates, binutils update
[03:49] <doko> - other: syncs/merges, updates to new upstream versions, amd64 server upgrade/then new install (badly needed) including bug submissions
[03:49] <doko> next week:
[03:49] <doko> - finish openoffice.org sync, together with spellchecking
[03:49] <doko> - drop python2.3 (either with or without python-central support)
[03:49] <doko> - update the estimates for the specs (they are not current)
[03:49] <jbailey> doko: Does the openoffice.org sync include 2.0.1 to breezy-updates?
[03:49] <mdz> doko: how disruptive will python-central be?
[03:51] <doko> mdz: not disruptive at all, it's just dropping of packages, not introduceing new one (python-central only (or python-support, whatever will survive)
[03:51] <mdz> ok
[03:51] <mdz> thanks
[03:51] <mdz> dholbach: next
[03:51] <dholbach> this week (done): GNOME 2.13.5, alongside with merges of every package, started apt-get.org building (status: good: 352, fail: 639, Current repo: 177/326)
[03:51] <dholbach> this week (todo): bug triage, some more merges, start apt-get.org reviews.
[03:51] <dholbach> next week: bug triage, apt-get.org reviews
[03:52] <mdz> dholbach: test-plans?
[03:52] <doko> jbailey: yeeess, it breaks some things (-base), but maybe let's talk about it later.
[03:52] <JaneW> Still can't find mjg59  - so I mailed him for an update.
[03:52] <mdz> JaneW: thanks
[03:52] <jbailey> doko: Cool, thanks.
[03:52] <dholbach> mdz: They are good to go. I added the gstreamer test case URL to the wiki, the media team is going to pick some reference files.
[03:52] <mdz> dholbach: implemented?
[03:52] <dholbach> mdz: oh yes, I'll change that.
[03:52] <mdz> or waiting for content?
[03:53] <dholbach> no, we're not blocked on content
[03:53] <mdz> ok
[03:53] <mdz> cool, thanks
[03:53] <dholbach> de rien
[03:53] <mdz> daniels: here?
[03:53] <daniels> x-roadmap: xorg source package uploaded with cleaner config, lots of cruft kicked out.  x{,org,server}-common all collapsed into x11-common, transition should just be finished as we speak.  fixed an entertaining bug with some radeon laptops where the panel wouldn't display anything even vaguely useful.  marked as implemented in lp.
[03:54] <mdz> daniels: no further breakage on the roadmap then?
[03:54] <daniels> certainly none planned from me ...
[03:54] <mdz> ok, thakns
[03:54] <daniels> it should be safe to slip into maintenance mode now.
[03:54] <infinity> After today, it should be smooth sailing.
[03:54] <mdz> BenC: next
[03:55] <doko> daniels: 1920x1200 resolution on amd64 doesn't work
[03:55] <BenC> preventing-hardware-support-regressions: Builds for i386 and amd64 are being done and published to http://people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/kernels-daily/. PowerPC will start today aswell. Total space per day is going to be around 260Megs, so I'm worried about space on rookery. Will keep an eye on it.
[03:55] <BenC> community-server-hardware-testing: (No work from me, but...) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTesting is in place. I reviewed it, and am in the process of adding additional info and criteria.
[03:55] <BenC> Kernel status: Kernel seems stable on all platforms. No critical outstanding issues, but some important bugs are lingering. Concentrating on fixing these next week.
[03:55] <daniels> the only thing I can think of is that I ripped out the language -> keymap 'smarts' assuming that lcxkb goes ahead.  you'll need to revert that one if it doesn't.
[03:55] <daniels> doko: bug please
[03:56] <mdz> BenC: please ask sysadmin if they would prefer to move the builds elsewhere; how many are you planning to keep?
[03:56] <JaneW> ** 5 minute call
[03:56] <BenC> I already asked elmo, he was good with it
[03:56] <mdz> BenC: is ServerTesting ready to announce to the community for testing?
[03:56] <BenC> there's 21Gigs on rookery, so I'm thinking two weeks worth
[03:57] <BenC> mdz: hopefully, but I need to finish my review of it
[03:57] <mdz> BenC: is sabdfl's X40 fix in the archive now?
[03:57] <BenC> uploading today
[03:57] <BenC> it's not an X40 issue
[03:57] <BenC> it's a wireless bug
[03:57] <mdz> oh, he thought it was
[03:57] <mdz> ok, one request before we adjourn
[03:58] <mdz> please email me your top three issues with Malone, assuming you have that many
[03:58] <pitti> lol
[03:58] <ogra> heh
[03:58] <Nafallo> hah
[03:58] <pitti> that would mean serious picking :)
[03:58] <mdz> I'll collate them for the LP folks
[03:58] <pitti> mdz: thank you
[03:58] <BenC> thanks
[03:58] <Kamion> soyuz rollout next week, is it?
[03:59] <mdz> yes, soyuz rollout next week
[03:59] <iwj> mdz: Um.  OK :-).
[03:59] <iwj> Joy.
[03:59] <Nafallo> yay!
[03:59] <Nafallo> finally soyuz :-)
[03:59] <mdz> look out for an announcement of what the visible changes will be
[03:59] <iwj> If I put `the web UI is awful' at the top of my list, what will happen ? :-/
[03:59] <\sh> christmas so early this year? 
[03:59] <mdz> iwj: nothing, because that's too vague to be useful
[03:59] <mdz> iwj: instead, point to specific UI issues
[04:00] <pitti> iwj: kiko and sabdfl will just beat you up, I guess :)
[04:00] <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4537
[04:00] <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4537
[04:00] <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4537
[04:00] <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4537
[04:00] <pitti> four times?
[04:00] <daniels> christ!  sorry.
[04:00] <iwj> 1. `Navigation structure must be totally reorganised' and 2. `Page layout must be completely reorganised' ?
[04:00] <daniels> this mouse is pathological.
[04:00] <mdz> iwj: this isn't a joke
[04:00] <iwj> You'll have seen my more detailed messages.
[04:00] <iwj> I'm not joking.
[04:00] <iwj> There's no point tinkering at the edges.
[04:01] <mdz> iwj: there are things we can do, and things that we can't, especially in the near term
[04:01] <mdz> and we're out of time here
[04:01] <iwj> I'm happy to write up a more messages with serious descriptions of what I think is wrong.
[04:01] <seb128> "out should not have to open 4 pages to update a bug"
[04:01] <iwj> time> true.
[04:01] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[04:01] <seb128> s/out/you
[04:01] <iwj> near term> go back to bugzilla ?
[04:01] <JaneW> thanks all
[04:01] <seb128> thank you mdz
[04:01] <pitti> iwj: I think you shuold rather point out how it should be changed (and, FWIW, I agree that navigation is pretty hard ATM)
[04:01] <JaneW> next week 20:00 UTC
[04:01] <dholbach> thank you mdz
[04:01] <pitti> thanks everyone
[04:01] <iwj> pitti: I have been pointing out how it should be changed.  I could come up with a description of a better design except that I don't want to end up doing LP web UI design.
[04:02] <pitti> iwj: I read your mail to lp-users, btw, full ack there
[04:02] <doko> bye
[04:02] <iwj> TTFN
[04:02] <iwj> go back to bugzilla> Not joking about that either.
[04:02] <iwj> Even if we lose a week's changes to bug states it's probably worth it.
[05:56] <pavka> Hello
[05:57] <pavka> I`ve problem in dapper. Where I can get help?
[05:58] <Seveas> pavka, #ubuntu
[05:59] <pavka> It is only for stable systems, or isn`t?
[06:07] <Seveas> no