[12:07] <slomo_> elmo: do you remember why you put faad2 into multiverse? and should every package containing that sources or great parts of it be in multiverse too?
[12:13] <elmo> slomo_: it came from Marillat
[12:13] <elmo> anything from Marillat automatically ends up in multiverse
[12:13] <elmo> (came + originally)
[12:13] <azeem> heh
[12:14] <slomo_> elmo: hehe ok :) i ask because i'll upload a NEW package (well, split of xine-lib) soon including the complete faad2 sources... where will you put it?
[12:15] <elmo> slomo_: I dunno, I'll have to have a look at the license, and what it contains, patent-wise etc.
[12:15] <slomo_> elmo: it's the same as the current xine-lib tarball which is in main... but only the ffmpeg and faad plugin are used
[12:21] <dilinger> mjg59: hm, i'll have to try that later.  power button certain didn't work (w/ dapper's kernel)
[12:23] <mjg59> dilinger: Worked here last time I checked, but I'm not on -13 yet
[12:23] <mjg59> (since -12 is broken with NetworkManager)
[12:24] <mjg59> BenC: Still not in the archive :(((((((((
[12:25] <BenC> mjg59: people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/
[12:25] <BenC> there's a -13-686 in there somewhere
[12:25] <mjg59> Heh
[12:26] <BenC> it's only missing a few unrelated patches from the real -13, but it fixes the oops
[12:26] <mjg59> Super
[12:26] <mjg59> That'll do nicely
[12:26] <BenC> mjg59: oh, the daily from yesterday works fine too
[12:27] <mjg59> BenC: Ooh
[12:27] <mjg59> I'll grab those
[12:28] <mjg59> BenC: There still seems to be some problem with powernow-k7 (I'm told, I don't have any hardware to test it)
[12:29] <crimsun> mjg59: -13's in a.u.c; I installed it about an hour ago
[12:29] <dilinger> oh god
[12:29] <dilinger> they just keep making xchat's interface shittier and shittier
[12:29] <dilinger> they stuck a close window thing where the left/right shift for tabs used to be
[12:35] <BenC> don't think I'll be doing this dist-upgrade
[12:35] <BenC> wants to remove 285 packages
[01:11] <lmanul> Hey guys, is this "fd buffer read" problem while upgrading breezy today already known ? Can't find a bug in malone but I'm just checking before I file a useless bug :)
[01:21] <crimsun> elmo: please sync aewm, lablgtkmathview, nvu, qucs, saods9, sndobj, soap-lite, sqlrelay, xtranslate, and xwit from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes (re-requested, all were requested prior)
[01:22] <elmo> crimsun: nvu is broken, diffren;t orig.tar.gz
[01:22] <elmo> in debian/ubuntu
[01:22] <crimsun> elmo: ok, thanks
[01:33] <crimsun> elmo: thanks again. Please also sync octave2.1 from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes (also a re-request)
[01:34] <elmo> octave2.1 is in the broken list
[01:34] <elmo> not for orig.tar.gz tho
[01:38] <LaserJock> elmo: I thought octave2.9 was in the broken list
[01:39] <elmo> LaserJock: err, good point, well madew
[01:40] <elmo> crimsun: done, sorry for missing all of those
[01:40] <crimsun> elmo: np, thank you :)
[01:49] <bhearsum> is there any documented procedure for installing ubuntu with an nfs root?
[04:11] <\sh> elmo/ Znarl : planet.ubuntu.com looks like it's down
[04:19] <psusi> wow... now that is awesome
[04:20] <elmo> \sh: fixed, thanks
[04:20] <\sh> elmo: no problem
[04:21] <elmo> \sh: do you know what you (MOTU) guys decided to do about UVF?
[04:22] <\sh> elmo: yes...we are sticking with the UVF, but if it's necessary we will write exception reports for universepackages with some special attachments (diffstats, changelogs and rationals and risk reports), sending them to dholbach, he collects those reports and he decides which ones will be send to kamion/mdz for approval
[04:23] <elmo> \sh: ok - what about new packages?
[04:25] <elmo> oh, crap scim
[04:25] <\sh> elmo: if they are not introducing new libs for main or deps for main (like in breezy times, you remember), we will push them until feature freeze. But this only applies to packages which are not in ubuntus or debians archives. 
[04:27] <\sh> and now I wonder, why libarts1-dev complains about libqt3-mt-dev not installable in my amd64 pbuilder, but in a clean chroot it's installable...fun again...
[04:31] <\sh> elmo: it was discussed and approved that universe will follow the Release Schedule for main this time :)
[04:32] <psusi> any debian-installer gurus around?  I think I've got a good udeb setup for dmraid, but I can't seem to get it correctly integrated into the setup cd... I build d-i from source with the udeb added, and threw the initrd on the setup cd, updated the md5sums file, and burned it
[04:32] <psusi> but the setup complains that it can't find the Packages file... but I didn't touch the Packages file
[06:43] <Den> Why does firefox take about 3 seconds to responding when decreasing the font size, when in my 2 yr old debian system it was instantaneous?  Is this a firefox or ubuntu problem?
[06:44] <Mithrandir> Den: I tested the live cd on the ieee1394 device yesterday and it worked just fine.  Assuming we manage to get ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-live installable today, you should have a CD in not too long.
[06:44] <daniels> please file a bug on launchpad.net/malone/ rather than using the development channel for support
[06:44] <Den> Mithrandir: Thank you _very_much.!
[06:45] <Den> daniels: I'm trying to determine where the bug might be - has anyone else noticed this behavior of firefox?
[06:47] <Den> daniels: And if this isn't the correct channel for such questions, no problem - what channel would you suggest I ask in?  I thought I'd ask in this channel in order to have a greater chance of reaching a specialist in the relevant sw?
[06:48] <daniels> well, you could start with #ubuntu, really
[06:48] <Den> Mithrandir: Will you please email me before you leave work & let me know the status, so I know beore this weekend if I can get an iso to try out?
[06:49] <Mithrandir> Den: sure
[06:50] <Den> Mithrandir: Thanks!
[06:50] <Mithrandir> doko: I can't get -I to diff to DTRT on i386 either?
[07:08] <perofal> what is this thing about a oem user on flight cd 3?
[07:09] <perofal> I got installed the cd and I get missed the part were it says tha oem is the default user....
[07:09] <perofal> also another thing is that the multiverse responsitory on the osurces.list does not work It should be replaced
[08:27] <pitti> good morning
[08:28] <zakame> hi pitti :)
[08:29] <janimo> hi pitti
[08:35] <doko> Mithrandir: my test case was diffing the gs-gpl source with the new upstream gnu ghostscript source using diff -ur gs-gpl-8.15 -I Id: gnu-ghostscript-8.16 (works on i386, but not amd64)
[08:51] <Mithrandir> 'morning pitti
[08:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: care to fix m-f-l-a?
[09:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: yessh
[09:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks
[09:36] <carlos> pitti, I'm generating the final language pack for breezy
[09:37] <pitti> yay
[09:37] <carlos> pitti, I'm doing a full export of main (we can now select just main pofiles)
[09:37] <carlos> The export has 6923 pofiles
[09:37] <pitti> carlos: that's nice, so I can drop that logic from langpack-o-matic in the future?
[09:37] <carlos> we still miss some of them
[09:38] <pitti> ok, no problem, I can merge them with the final breezy version
[09:38] <carlos> pitti, yes, you don't need to remove translation domains
[09:38] <carlos> pitti, we have that information already in our database
[09:39] <pitti> carlos: do you do a full export, or just things that changed since the breezy release?
[09:39] <carlos> pitti, full export
[09:39] <pitti> carlos: since I had to drop so many stuff back then, a full export might be adequate
[09:39] <pitti> ok
[09:39] <carlos> yeah
[09:39] <pitti> and next time we can do a relative one?
[09:39] <carlos> yes
[09:39] <carlos> that's the idea
[09:39] <pitti> nice
[09:39] <carlos> a relative one since yesterday
[09:39] <pitti> what's the status for dapper?
[09:40] <carlos> pitti, nothing until you use launchpad to build packages
[09:40] <carlos> that's one or two weeks
[09:40] <carlos> if all things work as planned
[09:40] <pitti> ok, then I better generate new ones today from the buildds
[09:40] <pitti> and update them in two weeks with rosetta love
[09:40] <carlos> yeah
[09:41] <carlos> oh, I forgot one thing...
[09:41] <pitti> what's the catch? :)
[09:41] <carlos> pitti, we need to edit some of the exported .po files
[09:41] <carlos> to change the encoding information
[09:42] <carlos> I will try to fix that issue today, but just in case I'm not able to have that on time for the rollout
[09:42] <carlos> the exported .po files are using UTF-8 encoding
[09:42] <carlos> but the .po header is not yet updated
[09:45] <seb128> mdz: around?
[09:47] <Mithrandir> seb128: care to reupload contact-lookup-applet?  iz uninstallable due to new eds, it appears.
[09:47] <tepsipakki> seb128: do you know how to start gnome-screensaver safely without having to re-login?
[09:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: I had plan to have a review of all the stuff that needs a rebuild for eds soname changes, now is good time for it, I'll do that now :)
[09:48] <seb128> tepsipakki: type gnome-screensaver on a command line?
[09:48] <seb128> mdz: ping is about libnotify / notification-are new versions coming today, upstream define them as
[09:48] <tepsipakki> seb128: doesn't start the dialog when I lock the screen
[09:48] <seb128> "
[09:48] <seb128> The current release, as I mentioned, is very broken. The new one will
[09:48] <seb128> fix a *lot* of major bugs, crashers, API usage, and installation
[09:48] <seb128> issues, as well as usability and visual bugs."
[09:48] <seb128> mdz: can we get freeze exception for that? 
[09:49] <Mithrandir> seb128: excellent, thanks.
[09:49] <seb128> np
[09:49] <seb128> tepsipakki: what do you mean?
[09:50] <tepsipakki> actually, when I lock the screen it only fades black
[09:51] <tepsipakki> doesn't show the password-dialog or even the screensaver itself
[09:51] <tepsipakki> but theres some output on the cmdline ;)
[09:51] <seb128> restart your session
[09:51] <tepsipakki> :)
[09:52] <tepsipakki> I have to reinstall this anyway, my sata-disk is being killed
[09:52] <tepsipakki> slow and painful dead..
[09:52] <tepsipakki> death..
[09:57] <carlos> pitti, forget what I told you. I already fixed that
[10:03] <carlos> pitti, I'm doing also a full export for Hoary
[10:05] <Mithrandir> Riddell: could you update qt3 to not depend on xlibs-static-dev, but rather the correct set of packages it needs?
[10:14] <pitti> Diziet: ping
[10:20] <dholbach> good morning
[10:24] <Mithrandir> hiya daniel
[10:24] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[10:25] <dholbach> hello Tollef, Andrew - how are you?
[10:25] <ajmitch> good :)
[10:25] <Mithrandir> angry at all the uninstallable packages. :-)
[10:25] <dholbach> I can imagine.
[10:26] <Mithrandir> dholbach: if you'd coordinate fixing all the stuff which is uninstallable due to the new eds, I'd appreciate that.  (seb said he'd start reviewing it, but I don't know if it just landed in his queue or if he's already on it)
[10:26] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I uploaded some already.
[10:26] <Mithrandir> uhm, .. coordinate with seb on.., not just coordinate
[10:26] <Mithrandir> coolie, thanks
[10:27] <Mithrandir> new xorg which should fix up a bunch of uninstallables hits after this cron.daily.
[10:30] <dholbach> elmo: please remove evolution-caldav.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> dholbach: oh?  Has it been integrated into -plugins or upstream?
[10:31] <dholbach> into evolution-data-server
[10:31] <seb128>     * amd64:132
[10:31] <seb128>     * i386:135
[10:31] <seb128>     * powerpc:124 
[10:31] <seb128> utch
[10:32] <Mithrandir> dholbach: nice. :-)
[10:32] <seb128> lot of packages have installation issues atm
[10:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: a lot of it'll go away with the new xorg, since that reintroduces xutils and xbase-clients.
[10:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: ah nice
[10:32] <Mithrandir> we should probably go through the packages depending on those and fix the deps.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> (at some point, but it's less urgent as long as they are installable)
[10:44] <seb128> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:45] <seb128>   libqt3-mt-dev: Depends: xlibs-static-dev (>= 4.3.0.dfsg.1-4) but it is not installable
[10:45] <seb128> is anybody working on that one?
[10:45] <raphink> it makes kdelibs4-dev uninstallable, too
[10:45] <raphink> seb128: actually I have
[10:45] <raphink> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:45] <raphink>   kdelibs4-dev: Depends: libarts1-dev (>= 1.5-rc1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:45] <raphink>                 Depends: libqt3-mt-dev (>= 3:3.3.5) but it is not going to be installed
[10:45] <raphink>                 Depends: libavahi-qt3-dev but it is not going to be installed
[10:46] <seb128> raphink: the base issue is what I copied before probably
[10:47] <raphink> hmm
[10:47] <raphink> at what time?
[10:47] <raphink> xlibs-static-dev you mean?
[10:48] <Mithrandir> libqt3-mt-dev needs xlibs-static-dev
[10:48] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure if we should reintroduce that or nuke xlibs-dev.
[10:48] <raphink> hmm
[10:48] <raphink> is 1.5.0 newer than 1.5-rc ?
[10:48] <ajmitch> dpkg --compare-versions
[10:49] <raphink> thanks ajmitch 
[10:50] <dholbach> Mithrandir: as Debian sent out FTBFS bugs for the packages that build-dep on xlibs-dev and we probably could just sync/merge their efforts, it might make sense to get rid of it, no?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> dholbach: we're in UVF, though.
[10:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: Debian dropped it we should do it too
[10:51] <dholbach> we have one week for merges.
[10:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion_: ^^ any thoughts on what we should do?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> xserver-xorg-input-wacom seems to be gone -evdev seems to have moved to universe, causing -input-all to be uninstallable too.
[10:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: we are still doing remaining sync
[10:51] <seb128> hum
[10:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, but we need to decide what we should do, then go for it.  It's not obvious to me that we want to get rid of xlibs-dev just yet; it'll probably hit the motus fairly hard too.
[10:52] <seb128> ~370 packages Build-Depends on xlibs-dev atm
[10:52] <seb128> I would say we have better to do
[10:52] <seb128> let's keep xlibs-dev for now :)
[10:53] <Mithrandir> that means reintroducing xlibs-static-dev.
[10:53] <seb128> Mithrandir: that would be a lot of work for no win imho
[10:53] <Mithrandir> raphink: dpkg --compare-versions $ver1 lt $ver2 && echo "y" || echo "n"
[10:53] <raphink> oh ok thanks
[10:53] <Mithrandir> seb128: yeah, it's one of those cleanups we want to do, but it's not urgent.  IMO.
[10:53] <seb128> Mithrandir: 22 packages Build-Depends on that one, do we need it?
[10:53] <Mithrandir> seb128: xlibs-dev depends on it.  That's easily fixed, though.
[10:54] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's one those cleanup we will get for free from Debian after dapper
[10:54] <Mithrandir> yes
[10:54] <Mithrandir> I'd like to have Kamion's opionion before we go for it, though.
[10:54] <seb128> so no point to spend the efforts to rebuild ~370 packages now
[10:54] <seb128> yeah, np
[10:54] <dholbach> We have enough time and some new MOTUs can do their first uploads then :-)))
[10:55] <Mithrandir> dholbach: you're evil. ;-)
[10:55] <dholbach> Mithrandir: That'd be the soyuz stress test. :-)
[10:56] <ajmitch> dholbach: sounds like fun :)
[10:56] <seb128> dholbach: yeah, those lazy guys need some action
[10:56] <dholbach> hahaha :)
[10:56] <Mithrandir> we seem to have a new kernel uploaded too, time for new lrm and linux-meta, I guess.
[10:56] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: another one already?
[10:56] <ajmitch> -14 now?
[10:57] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: nah, probably just the meta and lrm which needs updating.
[10:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: l-r-m and l-m have been uploaded next to linux
[10:57] <seb128> (according to -changes list)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: they're listed as being uninstallable, though.
[10:58] <seb128> "   * Kernel ABI bump for linux-source-2.6.15 2.6.15-13 (Look Adam!! I got it
[10:58] <seb128>      right the first time!!)."
[10:58] <Mithrandir> haha :-)
[10:58] <seb128> ;)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> might need NEW-ing
[11:02] <Kamion_> Mithrandir: tend to agree with seb128
[11:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion_: so, fix xlibs-dev to depend on the proper set of packages, fix the 22 packages depending on xlibs-static-dev?
[11:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what needs to change in xlibs-dev?
[11:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and yeah, only 22 packages seems easy enough to deal with
[11:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: xlibs-dev depends on xlibs-static-dev
[11:04] <Mithrandir> if we don't reintroduce -static-dev, that needs to be fixed. :-)
[11:05] <Mithrandir> I'll also drop the dependencies on non-existing -input and -driver packages.
[11:05] <Kamion> ah, ok
[11:05] <Mithrandir> if we could have the rest promoted (under the obvious, we already had the code in xorg), xorg should be happy.
[11:06] <Mithrandir> obvious rule, even
[11:06] <Mithrandir> sounds like a plan?
[11:07] <janimo> Kamion, no bazaar archive just a patch for cd-image xubuntu bits
[11:07] <janimo> http://startx.ro/jani/ubuntu/xubuntu-cd/
[11:08] <pitti> Diziet: unping; translations did not work any more, but that was just due to the s/mozilla-firefox/firefox/ path change
[11:09] <pitti> Diziet: btw, set -e was a great idea; it uncovered a lot of bugs in the xpi processing
[11:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sounds reasonable
[11:10] <Kamion> janimo: ok, will look once I've wound through the rest of this morning's to-do list
[11:10] <Kamion> thanks
[11:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks, effectuating that, then.
[11:11] <Kamion> is that better than "doing"?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> it's the same, I think.
[11:11] <Kamion> heh
[11:16] <Kamion> janimo: fyi, you'll need to merge the commit I just made to the Ubuntu seeds for 2.6.15-13
[11:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: uploading new m-f-l-all package now; I had to fix a fair number of bugs, so it took a little longer
[11:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks a lot.
[11:20] <pitti> but now I can enjoy a German firefox again :)
[11:22] <dholbach> seb128: sorry, pitti just updated the german one. :-p
[11:23] <pitti> seb128: langpacks are on today's list, too
[11:24] <pitti> seb128: OTOH my list today is scaringly long (well, as always), let's hope I'll manage it
[11:24] <pitti> Hi jvw_, how are you?
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: I know that too well ...
[11:24] <Riddell> Mithrandir: should I upload a qt which doesn't depend on xlibs-static-dev?
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: I tend to finish my TODO list at 2am this week
[11:24] <seb128> Riddell: that would be nice, so poppler could build
[11:24] <Mithrandir> Riddell: does it use libxf86config?
[11:25] <pitti> seb128: oh, it built fine for me?
[11:25] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I don't see why it should
[11:25] <Mithrandir> Riddell: just nuke the dependency, then.
[11:25] <seb128> pitti: "libqt3-mt-dev: Depends: xlibs-static-dev (>= 4.3.0.dfsg.1-4) but it is not installabl" on the buildd
[11:26] <seb128> (s/bl/ble)
[11:29] <Mithrandir> there, new xorg uploaded.  Let's see how this fares.
[11:29] <pitti> anothe one? *sigh*
[11:30] <pitti> yesterday we already had about 3000 mDhanielStones...
[11:32] <Mithrandir> just xorg, it's just a meta package.
[11:42] <ulaas> slomo: ping
[11:50] <ulaas> hi! whats up with X?
[11:54] <janimo> Kamion, will do the seed merge now
[11:55] <Mithrandir> ulaas: in the middle of a couple of transitions.
[11:56] <ulaas> Mithrandir: thanx for reply. any way to solve it manually just to ease the pain or wait?
[11:56] <Kamion> janimo: thanks
[11:57] <janimo> Kamion, actually bzr pull brings no changes in ubuntu-dapper
[11:57] <Mithrandir> ulaas: just wait, it will hopefully be ok in a few hours
[11:57] <ulaas> Mithrandir: ohh thats great news. thats fast. thank you so much you guys rock!!
[11:58] <janimo> btw how urgent are these syncs usually? I  check the seeds once every couple of days or even more ferquently
[11:58] <ulaas> ls
[11:59] <ulaas> hehe
[12:04] <Kamion> janimo: perhaps you have an http_proxy set? I definitely pushed changes this morning
[12:04] <janimo> I do have http_proxy
[12:04] <Kamion> try unsetting and pulling again
[12:04] <janimo> I want; aware it was caching these too
[12:05] <Kamion> yeah, it can be a bit annoying
[12:05] <Kamion> it'll be more urgent once we start building xubuntu CDs; this particular change is necessary for CD images to keep working at all
[12:05] <Kamion> kernel ABI transitions are like that ...
[12:07] <janimo> Kamion, ok I'll see about them being up-to date and fix the proxy, thanks
[12:07] <seb128> re
[12:08] <seb128> great
[12:08] <seb128> xorg is b0rked
[12:09] <seb128> where is daniels when you need him? :)
[12:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: what' b0rked this time?
[12:09] <seb128> $ setxkbmap -layout 'fr' -model pc105 -print | xkbcomp - :0.0 2>&1 | grep -v Warning
[12:09] <seb128>                   Ignoring extra symbols
[12:09] <seb128> X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
[12:09] <seb128>   Major opcode of failed request:  148 (XKEYBOARD)
[12:09] <seb128>   Minor opcode of failed request:  9 (XkbSetMap)
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: the X->Xorg missing symlink?
[12:09] <Mithrandir> what's, even
[12:09] <Mithrandir> oh, fun.
[12:09] <seb128> ie: gnome-settings-daemon just crash
[12:09] <seb128> no theme, ni icon for GNOME
[12:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: you were taking xkb, weren't you? :-)
[12:10] <pitti> . o O { I feel like saying similar things when seeing a French keyboard :) }
[12:10] <Mithrandir> haha
[12:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: does it start by a g? *g*
[12:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: quick, rename the package
[12:10] <seb128> pitti: I'll bring you a french keyboard, you will learn loving them :)
[12:11] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's easily fixed. :-)  Seriously, didn't you and daniels talk about that at UBZ?
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: oh, I converted from de to en_US some months ago, I'm happy with that :)
[12:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: yep I did, but I'm not as skilled as him in that area, I know some stuff but I could still use some advice from him :)
[12:12] <pitti> Riddell: hrm, kdelibs breezy-securit still has -ubuntu2, not 1.1, but nevermind
[12:13] <seb128> pitti: BTW it chockes the same way on "de"
[12:13] <pitti> hm, I can type German and Russian fine here, lemme try that command
[12:14] <pitti> seb128: I get a ton of warnings, but no errors
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: so that's something local to my box, *great* :)
[12:14] <pitti> seb128: hmm, how do I teach the gnome keyboard selector to take over again? that setxkbmap command disabled it
[12:15] <seb128> pitti: the applet of the capplet?
[12:15] <pitti> hm, whatever is in my panel and allows me to change keyboard layout
[12:15] <seb128> right click on it, there is a menu
[12:16] <seb128> try picking it again
[12:16] <jordi> seb128: does 2.13 still crash a lot when doing keyboard stuff in control-center?
[12:16] <seb128> jordi: if you use bugged xorg yep
[12:16] <jordi> hrm
[12:16] <jordi> should be more robust
[12:16] <seb128> jordi: those crash are due to xorg errors, not to GNOME
[12:17] <seb128> jordi: try beeing robust to something that crash under your feet ... :)
[12:17] <pitti> seb128: doesn't work
[12:17] <seb128> pitti: select an another one switch back :)
[12:17] <jordi> seb128: ah
[12:17] <jordi> so it's the libs crashing
[12:17] <jordi> that's bad
[12:17] <pitti> seb128: well, I can't select another one any more, that's the problem
[12:18] <seb128> pitti: what does it do?
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: I can click on whatever I want, and even reset to defaults and add the other lazouts again
[12:19] <pitti> layouts, even )bah=
[12:19] <pitti> (bah)
[12:19] <jordi> seb128: is xklavier 2.1 safe?
[12:19] <pitti> hm, typing on de is *hard*
[12:19] <seb128> jordi: it should yep
[12:19] <jordi> seb128: I'll nmu debian now then
[12:19] <seb128> pitti: killall gnome-settings-daemon :)
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can you please promote xserver-xorg-input-evdev, xserver-xorg-driver-sisusb and xserver-xorg-driver-voodoo under the "we had this source in main already" rule?
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: merci, that was it
[12:20] <seb128> pitti: np :)
[12:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: done
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks
[12:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: where has libtotem-plparser0 gone?  There's a bunch of stuff which is uninstallable because of it.
[12:25] <seb128> Mithrandir: soname bump
[12:25] <seb128> Mithrandir: I'm doing that right now
[12:25] <Mithrandir> great, thanks.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sorry for nagging.. it's just that it's one of the relativetly few things holding back a working live cd.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> or at least, a buildable one.
[12:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: np
[12:30] <pitti> Good morning Ubugtu !
[12:30] <pitti> Hi Seveas 
[12:31] <Seveas> hi there
[12:57] <HiddenWolf> mvo: ping
[12:57] <mvo> hello HiddenWolf 
[12:57] <HiddenWolf> Hi. :)
[12:58] <HiddenWolf> Just saw your screenshots for the dist-upgrader.
[12:58] <HiddenWolf> screenshots gave me the impression the progress bar indicates only the progress of the step, rather than for the progress.
[12:58] <HiddenWolf> eh, process
[12:59] <mvo> yes, mpt complained about that though. so it will probably change
[12:59] <HiddenWolf> Please. if a progress bar moves to hunderd, you get that feeling in your gut that it's nearly done.
[12:59] <mvo> also it can be frustrating I guess to wait for the upgrade process. because it can take *ages*
[12:59] <mvo> to get through all stages including downloading and installing :)
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> I'd suggest have 2 progress bars. One for the current step, one for overall progress.
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> People want to know how much time it'll take, even if roughly.
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> they also dont' want to see a "frozen" progress bar
[01:01] <mvo> sorry, my lunch is ready, we must discuss that further late :)
[01:01] <HiddenWolf> :)
[01:02] <mvo> but I fully agree
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> Go eat. :)
[01:07] <mpt> HiddenWolf, progress of subsidiary tasks is better shown using text underneath the progress bar
[01:09] <mpt> Whenever I see a progress bar that fills up and then empties again I think "well, make up your mind, are you finished or not?"
[01:11] <pitti> Riddell: any idea why libkipi has heaps of po files, but doesn't build .mo files out of them?
[01:13] <Riddell> pitti: nope, let me have a look
[01:19] <Riddell> pitti: it seems to make .gmo files
[01:19] <pitti> grumpf
[01:19] <pitti> what is a .gmo?
[01:19] <pitti> the same as a .mo with a different name?
[01:19] <Riddell> just what I was wondering
[01:20] <seb128> pitti: yep
[01:20] <pitti> ok, so shall I teach pkgstriptranslations to strip those as well
[01:20] <janimo>  Files ending with `.gmo' are really MO files, when it is known that these files use the GNU format.
[01:21] <janimo> from infor gettext
[01:21] <janimo> info
[01:21] <pitti> and teach langpack-o-matic about them?
[01:21] <pitti> thanks janimo 
[01:21] <seb128> pitti: the po folder has .gmo files after the build and they are installed as mo usually
[01:21] <janimo> evince and gdm uses those too
[01:21] <pitti> seb128: I see
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: but I only consider the installed, not the built mo files
[01:22] <seb128> pitti: is there some package installing .gmo?
[01:22] <pitti> Riddell: would it hurt to install the files with a .mo extension?
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: can't be many
[01:22] <seb128> is there any?
[01:22] <seb128> that seems weird to me
[01:23] <pitti> I don't have any
[01:23] <pitti> but indeed, package builds produce .gmo often
[01:23] <Riddell> pitti: they do get installed with a .mo, but the package doesn't put them in either of the .debs, I'll fix that now
[01:23] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I see :)
[01:24] <pitti> thanks
[01:24] <tepsipakki> latest firefox keeps segfaulting on me
[01:24] <tepsipakki> wont start
[01:24] <pitti> tepsipakki: even without esddsp?
[01:24] <seb128> use epiphany :)
[01:24] <tepsipakki> pitti: where's that set?
[01:25] <pitti> /etc/firefox/firefoxrc
[01:25] <pitti> FIREFOX_DSP="none"
[01:25] <pitti> "auto" was the previous default, which broke esound on amd64
[01:25] <pitti> or, rather, triggered an esound bug
[01:25] <Mithrandir> yeah, I should get around to fixing esound, I haven't done that yet.
[01:25] <Mithrandir> or rather, uploading my fix.
[01:26] <pitti> [01:26] <pitti> wftl: apt_0.6.43.1ubuntu1: 3 domains, but 7 pot files
[01:26] <tepsipakki> pitti: yes, that fixed it. why wasn't that updated automatically?
[01:26] <pitti> ^ mvo: now, that are funny numbers
[01:27] <pitti> tepsipakki: it was in the latest package
[01:27] <tepsipakki> pitti: I have 1.5.dfsg-4ubuntu3 here, x86
[01:27] <pitti> tepsipakki: ah, only the amd64 default changed
[01:27] <tepsipakki> ok
[01:28] <pitti> tepsipakki: wait for Mithrandir's fix or change it to none manually
[01:28] <HiddenWolf> mpt: text only has a meaning if you can convey it to the user.
[01:28] <HiddenWolf> mpt: I don't want a progressbar that fills then empties
[01:29] <HiddenWolf> I'd want one to show overall progress, filling slowly.
[01:29] <HiddenWolf> another to fill for each task
[01:29] <HiddenWolf> "unpacking" means nothing to my aunt, a little bar filling up does.
[01:30] <pitti> mvo: are those additional 4 pot files really just garbage?
[01:31] <mpt> HiddenWolf, so you'd have five progress bars in the window, with the third to fifth ones starting once the previous one had finished?
[01:31] <mvo> pitti: yes, it's a bit odd
[01:32] <HiddenWolf> mpt: no, two
[01:32] <HiddenWolf> mpt: one for the task at hand, one for overall progress.
[01:32] <mpt> If you have only two, the second one is constantly emptying and filling up again
[01:32] <mpt> which makes it pretty useless
[01:32] <HiddenWolf> it's only there to show movement.
[01:32] <mvo> pitti: apt's build-system .. well .)
[01:33] <mpt> mvo, those screenshots look pretty good
[01:33] <HiddenWolf> mpt: if you have only one, on a slow pc, it might take ages to move, and someone might consider it frozen and fuck up his upgrade.
[01:33] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: you don't want 5 progress bars. You want one progress bar for the entire 'upgrading' process
[01:33] <Treenaks> (maybe with a 'this could take a while' message, or some other way of being more verbose)
[01:34] <mpt> HiddenWolf, that's what the text is for -- it doesn't matter *so much* if people don't understand what the step is (though it should be made understandable if possible), the main thing is that the numbers keep changing :-)
[01:34] <mvo> mpt: thanks, the progressbar needs fixing, that well :)
[01:34] <mpt> "Borzleworping 129 MB of 355 MB..."
[01:34] <Mithrandir> mpt: a progress bar which never moves isn't very useful either, though.  A progress bar serves two purposes: see how far you've come, and see the rate of progress.
[01:35] <Mithrandir> if the rate of progress is small enough, you can't see it.
[01:35] <tseng> will dpkg undestand muine-0.8.4pre1 < muine-0.8.4
[01:35] <tseng> or do i need to express it some other way
[01:35] <Mithrandir> tseng: dpkg --compare-versions.
[01:35] <HiddenWolf> mpt: I'd rather see a second progress bar rather than semi-confusing garble text
[01:35] <Mithrandir> (you need to express it some other way)
[01:35] <HiddenWolf> mpt: that'll either move to slow to be read, or mean nothing
[01:36] <HiddenWolf> eh, fast
[01:36] <mpt> yes, text in a progress window or status bar shouldn't update more than about two or three times a second
[01:37] <HiddenWolf> mpt: I can't read three lines a second either.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> that gives you "there is progress", but it doesn't tell you rate of progress.
[01:38] <Mithrandir> if we have an "estimated time left" + some text which says what it's doing, that's fairly ok
[01:38] <mpt> Mithrandir, a progress meter that covers only 1/5 of the task doesn't tell you the rate of progress either!
[01:38] <mpt> estimated time left is always a good thing, though, yes
[01:38] <Mithrandir> mpt: it should cover the full task, I don't think anybody is arguing against that?
[01:39] <mpt> Mithrandir, HiddenWolf was ... but anyway.
[01:39] <mpt> mvo, how about "Cancel" and "Upgrade" instead of "No" and "Yes"? :-)
[01:39] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: my suggestion was to have two seperate bars. One for the current task, one for the overall progress
[01:40] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: imho that's the best way to display all usefull information in a non-scary way.
[01:40] <HiddenWolf> but I've said enough about it.
[01:40] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[01:42] <mpt> mvo, and instead of having a window title "Upgrade distribution" then a heading "Distribution upgrade", perhaps just a title "Upgrading Ubuntu" (or "Upgrading System" if being brand-specific is really annoying)
[01:42] <dholbach> I suppose nobody is here to give back gnome-icon-theme?
[01:43] <Mithrandir> dholbach: lamont crashed a few hours ago, so no, not in some more hours.
[01:43] <dholbach> Ok.
[01:45] <mvo> mpt: you mean, no heading at all (or only a small one)?
[01:47] <mpt> mvo, no heading at all
[01:47] <mvo> ok
[01:47] <mpt> so, title
[01:48] <mpt> overall progress bar
[01:48] <mpt> time remaining (if that's possible to calculate
[01:48] <mpt> )
[01:48] <mpt> text about the current stage
[01:49] <mvo> right, no "unpacking: nadanada" anymore under the progressbar :) ?
[01:49] <mpt> that's text about the current stage, isn't it?
[01:49] <mpt> that's fine
[01:50] <mvo> it will currently display also what packcage (unpack linux-kernel, unpacking gedit, unpacking liblsb etc) it works on, that needs to go away I suppose (it makes my heart bleed to remove nice features).
[01:51] <mpt> why does it need to go away?
[01:52] <mpt> Constantly updating text like that shows that stuff is happening, which is good
[01:52] <mpt> even if the package names mean little to your aunt
[01:52] <mvo> ah, then I misunderstood you earlier
[01:53] <mpt> hmmm
[01:54] <mvo> "hmm"?
[01:56] <HiddenWolf> ok, this is confusing.
[01:56] <HiddenWolf> 3 letter nicks should be banned.
[01:56] <mpt> mvo: "To upgrade, Ubuntu needs to download 623 MB, and change 1127 packages (adding 335, removing 29, and changing 763).   ( Cancel ) (( Upgrade ))"
[01:57] <mpt> That avoids the "packages are going to be, packages are going to be, packages are going to be" in the current alert
[01:58] <mvo> *nod* I'll change that
[01:58] <mpt> (actually, change the last "changing" to "updating")
[01:58] <mpt> cool
[02:02] <mpt> Make a progress window look like an alert, with a Cancel button where the OK button normally goes? Yeah, that's a good idea
[02:03] <HiddenWolf> mpt: if you want to get users who don't look/read to pause and consider, switching the order of OK and Cancel will usually do the trick.
[02:03] <mpt> HiddenWolf, Windows shareware often does that
[02:03] <mpt> WinZip does, for example
[02:03] <HiddenWolf> I know, and it works, that's why they do it.
[02:03] <mpt> so you have to look at the nag screen for 0.5 seconds instead of 0.2 seconds :-)
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> the intent here is to not have you press "kill my pc (yes/no) with yes preselected and obvious, at least not without thinking even a bit.
[02:05] <mpt> I still couldn't describe anything else that appears in that window, though
[02:06] <pitti> Riddell: kde-i18n-pt is screwed, it installs .po files instead of .mo files
[02:06] <mpt> so, mvo, disclaimer: How I suggested to arrange the progress window is quite different from what the HIG suggests. I think that part of the HIG is nonsense, but I will not mind *at all* if you follow it instead of me.
[02:07] <Riddell> pitti: investigating.  any others which do that?
[02:07] <pitti> Riddell: still going down my list, not so far
[02:07] <mvo> mpt: I will discuss it with some HIG gurus and see what they think. changing the ui shouldn't that hard, so either way, I appreciate your input very much
[02:08] <pitti> Riddell: no, it's the only one
[02:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you know whether mailman uses gettext at all? it has a lot of po files, but doesn't install any mo files
[02:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: unsure.
[02:10] <Treenaks> mpt: commit it :)
[02:10] <Treenaks> mpt: (submit it?)
[02:10] <mvo> mpt: haha, send it in :)
[02:11] <mpt> hmm, I wrote this last year sometime then forgot about it
[02:11] <mpt> yeah, I should send it in
[02:11] <mpt> it needs illustrations though
[02:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, nevermind. mailman installs translations into /var/lib/mailman/messages instead of /usr/share/locale/, so pkgstriptranslations don't pick them up
[02:18] <Kamion> I'm just going to ignore both in the gfxboot keymap handler and let gfxboot sort them out by scan code, I think
[02:19] <Treenaks> Kamion: Try ssh'ing into FreeBSD boxes...
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we should just be able to get rid of console-data soon anyway. :-)
[02:20] <Kamion> the French keypad down-arrow handling is annoying too
[02:21] <Kamion> generates 2 by default, and you have to use altgr to make it be Down, I think, but I can't type AltGr-KP2 on my PowerBook keyboard so I can't test it
[02:21] <Riddell> pitti: fixed version uploaded
[02:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: go french keymaps?
[02:21] <Kamion> yeah
[02:32] <Mithrandir> grrrr
[02:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, as of not-very-long-from-now, gfxboot will give you a Linux console keymap name on the command line, e.g. "kbd-chooser/method=de-latin1-nodeadkeys"
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can I have an X keyboard map name instead, once lcxkb is working?
[02:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: once that all works, probably, yes, although I'll need to fiddle with gfxboot-theme-ubuntu to make that happen
[02:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm hoping to have something working decently at least before the sprint.
[02:54] <Kamion> but it would be nice to get the console keymap stuff in in the meantime
[02:54] <Mithrandir> as in, you want casper to do something with it?
[02:54] <Kamion> just set it as debian-installer/keymap in /target before reconfiguring X and xorg should sort it out
[02:55] <Mithrandir> possibly.  Daniel did some changes related to this which may break us a bit
[02:55] <Kamion> if those break the live CD with that suggestion, they'll break the install CD too
[02:56] <Mithrandir> yup
[02:56] <Kamion> from the changelog it didn't sound as though it would break, though
[02:57] <tvo> which pkg is the live cd cd check? (for bug report)
[02:57] <Kamion> tvo: casper
[02:57] <tvo> Kamion: ok thanks
[02:57] <seb128> Kamion: could you give a retry to poppler?
[02:58] <Kamion> seb128: done
[02:58] <seb128> thanks
[03:03] <tepsipakki> how can I link a bug in launchpad to a upstream bug? it asks for a product
[03:06] <Kamion> tvo: you realise returning to the menu involves rebooting, right? :)
[03:06] <seb128> Kamion: is xine-lib waiting on something?
[03:07] <tvo> Kamion: hmm, actually I didn't.  But I do now you mention it :)
[03:07] <Kamion> seb128: it's in NEW
[03:07] <Kamion> is it urgent?
[03:07] <seb128> Kamion: could it be accepted/libxine-main1 promoted (it's a rename of libxine1c2 without parts with patent issues), so totem/python-gnome-extras/rhythmbox can build and be installable again
[03:08] <seb128> Kamion: it's block Mithrandir to do a CD I think
[03:08] <seb128> s/block/blocking
[03:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: \o/ :-)
[03:08] <Kamion> ok, give me a moment to check it over
[03:08] <seb128> sure
[03:10] <tvo> Kamion: that's unfortunate, but maybe do the reboot automagically after user presses a key?
[03:11] <tvo> or show a message or something like that..
[03:11] <Kamion> so, uh, can we really put e.g. mad and real decoders in main?
[03:11] <Kamion> I mean I know they've always been there, so I guess it shouldn't block acceptance
[03:12] <seb128> Kamion: hum
[03:12] <seb128> that would be a question for slomo
[03:13] <Kamion> neat, libxine1c2 conflicted/replaced itself
[03:13] <seb128> Kamion: reject it for now, I'll do a new totem upload using previous libxine
[03:13] <seb128> that's easier
[03:13] <seb128> and we will sort that with slomo later
[03:13] <Kamion> too late
[03:14] <seb128> oki, works fine too
[03:14] <Kamion> those decoders were already in main, so it's not like the situation is regressing or anything
[03:14] <seb128> right
[03:14] <seb128> it was just in case you had some reticence to accept it
[03:14] <Kamion> meh, I guess that means I have to process xine-extracodecs too though
[03:14] <seb128> thank you
[03:15] <seb128> xine-extracodecs is multiverse
[03:15] <seb128> no hurry
[03:15] <Kamion> yeah, but libxine1c2 for upgrade path
[03:15] <seb128> correct
[03:15] <seb128> but do we care about daily upgrade path for people tracking dapper?
[03:16] <Kamion> not really :)
[03:16] <seb128> they can live with installing extracodecs by hand if they jump on the update
[03:16] <seb128> but right, if you want to do it now that's done and upgrade is smooth :)
[03:17] <Kamion> only done the source NEW
[03:26] <pitti> Riddell: hm, libkipi now has po/ca/{libkipi.po,ca.po} - which is the right one?
[03:28] <pitti> Riddell: hmm, ca/ca.po seems to be generated during build, but no other language does that (they all just use libkipi.po); this breaks the import
[03:32] <Kamion> janimo: do you actually have a xubuntu-artwork-usplash package yet?
[03:32] <janimo> yes
[03:33] <janimo> in breezy even
[03:34] <Kamion> oh, so you do, sorry for not checking
[03:36] <Riddell> pitti: eek, that's something I left from my tests when I was playing with the package earlier
[03:36] <pitti> Riddell: I'm already at fixing it
[03:36] <Riddell> libkipi.po is correct one
[03:36] <pitti> (If you don't mind)
[03:36] <Riddell> go ahead
[03:36] <pitti> yes, I saw it in the debdiff
[03:37] <pitti> uploaded
[03:43] <pitti> Diziet, seb128: since the last dist-upgrade I can't open links from the terminal any more, I get an error dialog. known bug?
[03:44] <seb128> pitti: what does it say?
[03:44] <seb128> pitti: does "gnome-open http://a_website" work?
[03:44] <pitti> freely translated: "Address http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327350 could not be opened. Error on execution of the associated command of the default action'
[03:45] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 327350: "crash (double free) on mpg playback" Product: GStreamer, Component: gst-plugins-ugly, Severity: normal, Assigned to: gstreamer-bugs@lists.sourceforge.net, Status: UNCONFIRMED
[03:45] <pitti> erm, yes, that's the one I triage right now
[03:45] <Kamion> janimo: hmm, your checkout of debian-cd was quite out of date - adapting your patch for various changes since then
[03:45] <pitti> seb128: nope, same result
[03:45] <pitti> Error showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.
[03:45] <pitti> Diziet: ok, seems to be a gnome error, nevermind
[03:46] <seb128> pitti: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command
[03:46] <Treenaks> On amd64, I sometimes have to launch firefox twice to get one window
[03:46] <pitti> seb128: a-ha: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox "%s"
[03:46] <pitti> seb128: it should be lib/firefox
[03:46] <pitti> seb128: or rather /usr/bin/firefox maybe?
[03:46] <seb128> pitti: did you set that by hand?
[03:46] <pitti> certainly not
[03:47] <seb128> the GNOME capplet sets "firefox %s"
[03:47] <pitti> grep http/command /home/martin/.gconf/%gconf-tree.xml -> no result
[03:47] <seb128> pitti: sure
[03:47] <pitti> seb128: gconf-editor shows an 'a', that's 'automatic', right?
[03:47] <seb128> pitti: it's an xml file
[03:48] <seb128> so it's 

[03:48] <seb128>   <command>
[03:48] <seb128> not the same line :)
[03:48] <seb128> pitti: grep firefox /home/martin/.gconf/%gconf-tree.xml
[03:48] <pitti> indeed
[03:48] <pitti> there is the entry
[03:48] <pitti> odd, I never touched that (at least not delibarately)
[03:49] <seb128> if you use system, preferences, preferred app capplet?
[03:49] <pitti> ok, thank you
[03:49] <seb128> what value does it say?
[03:49] <seb128> np
[03:49] <seb128> and admire the new capplet look :)
[03:49] <pitti> heh, I never saw that dialog, nice one :)
[03:49] <seb128> thank you ;)
[03:49] <pitti> anyway, it says /u/l/m-f/f, not surprisingly
[03:49] <seb128> it's weird
[03:49] <pitti> and 'custom'
[03:50] <pitti> I change it to 'Firefox'
[03:50] <seb128> something changed it one day
[03:50] <seb128> I doubt that's the capplet, it has no path coded, just commands name
[03:50] <pitti> hmm, custom terminal emulator, too?
[03:50] <seb128> what command?
[03:51] <seb128> what was the custom value?
[03:51] <pitti> Command: gnome-terminal
[03:51] <pitti> Execute flag: -x
[03:51] <pitti> heh, what's an "Ubuntu terminal emulator"? :)
[03:51] <seb128> that may be a bug of the switch to the next capplet
[03:52] <seb128> pitti: a request from Mark to rename Debian terminal emulator :p
[03:52] <pitti> cool, I can set mutt as prefered mail reader
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: ah, the /etc alternative, I guess
[03:52] <pitti> ok, it works again
[03:53] <pitti> I'm fairly sure that I didn't touch it, but if it was only an intermediate breakage, let's ignore it
[03:53] <pitti> I'll do a breezy->dapper upgrade at some point anyway
[03:53] <seb128> right, the Ubuntu terminal emulator is x-terminal-emulator
[03:53] <seb128> yeah, I'll be careful when I do upgrades as well
[03:54] <seb128> the custom terminal emulator might be a bug on upgrade, I doubt than a the capplet set the /usr/lib path for firefox though
[03:54] <seb128> maybe some evil app writting the gconf key
[03:54] <seb128> or an extension
[03:55] <seb128> or something ...
[03:55] <pitti> well, the advantage of changing ffox' path is that it uncovers all the little places where it's stored, and shouldn't be
[03:56] <seb128> like breaking the apps linked against it? :p
[03:57] <seb128> (the .so have moved too)
[03:57] <pitti> seb128: ... or breaking the translations :)
[03:58] <seb128> he he
[03:58] <Treenaks> security down?
[03:58] <pitti> Treenaks: hmm, Znarl just worked on the servers... Znarl?
[03:58] <janimo> Kamion, I patched against patch-213 AFAIK
[03:59] <janimo> I updated now and the only new thing is ypou recent commit
[03:59] <janimo> or is it a multi-config project? I did not recurively update I admit
[03:59] <Treenaks> pitti: '[Connecting to security.ubuntu.com (82.211.81.138)]  *nothing*
[04:00] <Kamion> janimo: you need to update in debian-cd as well as just in cdimage
[04:00] <Kamion> janimo: anyway, applied now, thanks!
[04:01] <tepsipakki> will nscd ever be supported on ubuntu? ldap-setups practically depend on it..
[04:01] <tepsipakki> clients, that is
[04:01] <pitti> Treenaks: <Znarl> pitti : It's just very very slow right now.
[04:01] <Treenaks> pitti: it times out twice, but it works now
[04:01] <janimo> Kamion, thanks! I did not know cd-image was a separate project. 
[04:01] <Kamion> (oops, I forgot the credit to janimo in my last commit message - very hard to add back now though, sorry)
[04:01] <gond> hi. I've got some questions about your debian-installer. Where does it get its sources.list from
[04:02] <janimo> Kamion, np at all :)
[04:02] <Kamion> gond: it generates it itself on the fly
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: bzr uncommit works pretty well nowadays :)
[04:02] <gond> from which data? I'd like to influence that ;-)
[04:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: uncommit ; fix ; commit?
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: (it saved me once from a stupid commit I didn't want to do)
[04:02] <Kamion> gond: which version of Ubuntu are you installing?
[04:02] <janimo> Kamion, don't bother really
[04:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: already pushed
[04:02] <Kamion> bit too much effort to go around frobbing all the mirrors
[04:03] <janimo> pitti, uncommit using bzr 0.7 ?
[04:03] <gond> Kamion: its the breezy version of the installer
[04:03] <Kamion> gond: and in what way would you like to influence it?
[04:03] <pitti> janimo: I use jbailey's CotD
[04:03] <gond> I want it to get the udebs from one source and the debs from another one
[04:04] <Kamion> gond: you can do that with preseeding; search for apt-setup in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html
[04:05] <Kamion> gond: and see http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch04s06.html
[04:06] <gond> Kamion: does it work with kickstart? I want to use the ubuntu-breezy installer to install sarge ;-) 
[04:07] <Kamion> gond: sorry, that's totally unsupported and fairly unlikely to work properly
[04:07] <Kamion> gond: no, kickstart only lets you set a single URL for both udebs and debs
[04:08] <Kamion> although you can use the 'preseed' extension to kickstart to apply a few preseeding tweaks if you're already using kickstart for other things
[04:10] <gond> Kamion: we are using kickstart for our ubuntu-client installation; our servers are still working on sarge, and we want to use autoinstallation. Kickseed is much more readable...
[04:10] <Kamion> in fact, yes, I'm certain that the breezy installer will fail in fun ways if you try to use it with sarge.
[04:11] <Kamion> it would be more sensible to backport kickseed and the busybox-cvs changes it needs and try to fit those into the sarge installer somehow, then.
[04:11] <Kamion> It would still be a non-trivial amount of work even for somebody already familiar with the internals of the installer
[04:12] <gond> Kamion: is debian working on kickstart?  
[04:12] <Kamion> gond: I'm working on porting Kickstart compatibility to Debian d-i in my spare time, yes
[04:13] <Kamion> but it probably won't end up in the mainline installer for space reasons - instead there'll be separate initrds available or something
[04:13] <sbalneav> Well, we'll try that again
[04:13] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:13] <Kamion> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/01/msg00372.html and followups
[04:14] <gond> Kamion: That could be a problem. It should be easy to maintain...
[04:14] <Kamion> gond: as author, I dispute that somewhat :-)
[04:15] <Kamion> there's a reasonable amount of work that needs to be done in Debian before it can work there at all
[04:15] <Kamion> some of that work will take up additional space and make it harder for things like very low-memory installs to be supported
[04:15] <Kamion> at least, so the lead d-i developer reckons
[04:16] <Kamion> I'll do what I can, but I cannot simply override people's objections
[04:18] <gond> Kamion: We will need this thing ;-) What can I do to help you
[04:19] <pitti> Hi sbalneav 
[04:19] <Kamion> gond: you probably can't - I've already set more or less everything possible in motion
[04:19] <Kamion> thanks, though
[04:19] <sbalneav> Hey there pitti!
[04:19] <Kamion> and in any case it still won't support sarge
[04:19] <Kamion> you *have* to use preseeding for that
[04:20] <gond> Kamion: it can't be backported?
[04:20] <Kamion> gond: 15:11 < Kamion> It would still be a non-trivial amount of work even for somebody already familiar with the internals of the installer
[04:20] <Kamion> and even then, not really, because you'd have to have a private archive with e.g. a custom version of tasksel
[04:21] <Kamion> and quite possibly base-config too
[04:23] <gond> Kamion: These things would not be a big problem. Its more work to get preseed etc. working
[04:27] <Kamion> gond: I really think you're overestimating the difficulty of preseed by an order of magnitude here
[04:28] <Kamion> I know what's involved in both (a) getting kickstart working in sarge and (b) getting preseed working in sarge
[04:28] <Kamion> and (a) is a good order of magnitude more work than (b)
[04:29] <Kamion> you can also get the kickseed source and use it as a reference for the sorts of things you'll need to preseed
[04:29] <gond> Kamion: I'll have to think about it... 
[04:29] <Kamion> although it probably won't be quite right for sarge (I've tried to insert comments where I depend on new features of various packages), so it'll take a few iterations
[04:30] <Kamion> I realise Kickstart is a lot simpler to use for simple autoinstalls (that's why we did it, after all) ...
[04:31] <gond> Kamion: I'll have a look at it. You are often in this channel?
[04:31] <Kamion> yes
[04:31] <gond> Kamion: I'll come back to you
[04:32] <Kamion> one of the problems with kickstart in sarge would be that there's no way to select individual packages to install other than by preseeding base-config/late_command to do an apt-get install by hand
[04:32] <Kamion> that would apply to preseeding too
[04:32] <Kamion> if you only need to select tasks, then it's easier
[04:33] <gond> Kamion: I just want to do a base install. no extra packages. Thats done by our software deployment
[04:33] <carlos> pitti, dude, I just restarted the export because I forgot that the .pot export was not working and the process failed...
[04:33] <Kamion> gond: that would make kickstart easier, certainly
[04:33] <carlos> pitti, anyway, I think it will take only 2-3 hours
[04:33] <gond> Kamion: *g*
[04:34] <pitti> carlos: I have theather this evening, I won't be around at that time any more
[04:34] <carlos> pitti, anyway, the tarballs will appear at mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos as usual
[04:35] <carlos> pitti, and will be generating weekly exports as usual for breezy and hoary
[04:35] <pitti> carlos: nice
[04:35] <carlos> pitti, just tell me the URL of the tarball you use
[04:35] <carlos> so I can set the timestamp to that one
[04:35] <carlos> so we can do an update next time
[04:39] <maswan> regarding the current security.u.c slowness, is that due to machine or network trouble? in case of network saturation, you can always dump more releases-downloads on us
[04:44] <lamont> dholbach: gnome-icon-theme_2.13.5.1-0ubuntu1 given-back
[04:46] <seb128> lamont: could you give back totem too?
[04:46] <mxpxpod> is anyone else having problems when dapper boots up, it fails when it runs /etc/init.d/dns-clean?
[04:47] <BenC> am I to understand that mono programs are actually win32 executables?
[04:47] <mjr> BenC, not really
[04:47] <BenC> file reports it as PE windows executable
[04:48] <BenC> does it contain bytecode of some kind?
[04:48] <mjr> the bulk of it is CLI bytecode
[04:48] <lamont> seb128: done
[04:48] <seb128> thanks
[04:48] <mjr> apparently there's also a PE header; not sure if there's some win32 init code or somesuch, but most is CLI
[04:51] <lfittl> BenC: ati binary driver 8.21.7 is out, do you plan to update l-r-m?
[05:05] <pitti> tar xzf data.tar.gz
[05:05] <pitti> tar: .: Cannot utime: Operation not permitted
[05:05] <pitti> what???
[05:09] <BenC> lfittl: inifinity does l-r-m
[05:09] <BenC> pitti: maybe it can't get the utime for the file you are tar'ing up?
[05:09] <pitti> I want to extract a file actually
[05:10] <BenC> hmm, wait, maybe it's overwriting a file
[05:10] <BenC> yeah, just noticed that
[05:13] <lfittl> BenC: k, thanks, I will ask him when he is online
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> BenC: I've been wondering for a while, is there anything in the kernel infrastructure to enable an optical mouse to dim it's light when not in use?
[05:13] <BenC> lfittl: he really doesn't like that :)
[05:14] <BenC> lfittl: we're in an upstream version freeze, so it will depend on whether it is warranted or not
[05:14] <spike> hey there, security.u.c down?
[05:14] <BenC> HiddenWolf: my optical mice do it automatically
[05:14] <BenC> HiddenWolf: must be your mouse that doesn't support it
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> mouse does, ubuntu doesn't
[05:15] <BenC> ubuntu shouldn't have to
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> note-to-self: ditch MS-mouse. :)
[05:15] <BenC> I have 5 different optical mice, all by logitech, and they all dim automatically
[05:16] <Riddell> lamont: please give back k9copy
[05:16] <HiddenWolf> Hm, My old, dirty, ragged MS intellimouse must want a hint from a driver or so.
[05:17] <HiddenWolf> BenC: thanks, I'll get myself a logitech. :)
[05:20] <dholbach> lamont: merci beaucoup
[05:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: panel_version=$(chroot /target /usr/bin/dpkg-query-query -W --showformat='${Version}' gnome-panel-data 2>/dev/null) || panel_version=""
[05:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that code in casper-bottom/22gnome_panel_data looks like a typo to me (extra -query)
[05:39] <slomo> Kamion, seb128: i could move the mad plugin too but i thought it is ok this way... the libxine-main1 binaries are only linked against libmad and libmad is no dependency of libxine-main1 but only a suggests... that's the same way as before. and for the conflicts, they're all versioned and imho there should be no problems but i may be wrong...
[05:40] <seb128> slomo: libxine1c2 Conflicts with libxine1c2 ..
[05:40] <Kamion> slomo: conflicts> my point was that libxine1c2 used to conflict with *itself*. :-)
[05:40] <Kamion> (harmless, because dpkg ignores it, but silly)
[05:41] <seb128> slomo: and for mad the goal was to move libmad to universe and that's not possible if libxine Build-Depends on it
[05:41] <slomo> damn, indirectly it conflicts itself... right... that's because of the version numbers... i'll fix it, thanks for noticing :/
[05:42] <Kamion> does anything need fixed now? I was commenting on the old situation
[05:42] <slomo> seb128: i asked you some time ago about libmad and you said it would be ok this way :P but no problem, i can move it in the other package for the next upload
[05:42] <slomo> Kamion: no, i haven't changed anything since then... but i'll do now
[05:42] <seb128> slomo: you asked that? I should have misred it
[05:42] <seb128> misread
[05:43] <slomo> seb128: well, np :) i'll move it to the other package
[05:43] <poningru> sorry to disturb but 
[05:43] <poningru> anyone know if/when launchpad et al will be freed
[05:43] <Kamion> #launchpad
[05:44] <poningru> asked there no one responded
[05:44] <azeem> poningru: try again later, then.  This channel is not the right place
[05:45] <poningru> ok sorry
[05:47] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: mmm, fresh langpacks in http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ - try them while they are hot :)
[05:47] <seb128> thanks
[05:47] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: if you have a minute, do you want to test them ?
[05:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, that looks like a typo
[05:47] <seb128> pitti: will do
[05:47] <seb128> after having kicking who broken evince :)
[05:47] <seb128> Error: Couldn't find a font for 'Helvetica Bold'
[05:47] <seb128> some font thing failed
[05:47] <seb128> Error: Couldn't find a font for 'Helvetica'
[05:47] <seb128> some font thing failed
[05:48] <seb128> Error: Couldn't find a font for 'Courier Bold'
[05:48] <seb128> some font thing failed
[05:48] <spike> hi there
[05:48] <pitti> seb128: erm, *shaking* it worked fine yesterday
[05:48] <pitti> hi spike 
[05:48] <mdz> seb128: around now
[05:48] <spike> can I paste 5 lines? (discussion on ubuntu-server)?
[05:48] <pitti> Good morning mdz
[05:49] <mdz> morning
[05:49] <seb128> mdz: cf some lines after the ping IIRC (libnotify)
[05:49] <pitti> spike: you already wasted one for the question :)
[05:49] <seb128> mdz: hi :)
[05:50] <spike> 17:43:59 < spike> based on http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html.en#allowoverride, default is AllowOverride All
[05:50] <spike> 17:44:55 < spike> and apache2.conf has no AllowOverride directive but for icons/errors and public_html Directory statements
[05:50] <spike> 17:45:13 < spike> wouldnt it be safer to define a global AllowOverride None?
[05:50] <spike> 17:47:59 < spike> same goes for "Options" directive. default is All and I cant see anything about it, and would consider only "Indexes" a saner default
[05:50] <mdz> seb128: it doesn't *seem* horribly broken to me; what's your opinion?
[05:50] <spike> my first installation of apache2, ran 1.3 so far, and I'm a bit perplexed about default config
[05:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, may it be that you accidentially swapped the '$REGEN' logic in locale-def?
[05:50] <BenC> is there anything besides banshee that can play songs from an iTunes share?
[05:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: erm, locale-gen? now it regenerates locales on langpack install
[05:51] <mdz> seb128: is it a gnome thing or a fd.o thing?
[05:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: and REGEN does the opposite of KEEP now
[05:51] <BenC> banshee loves to crash as soon as I hit play on my powerbook
[05:51] <spike> should I send that to the ML? post on the wiki? what's the best approach to discuss that?
[05:51] <seb128> mdz: I think it's quite ugly atm and upstream put a lot of work on it, we still have time and there is some API changes that GNOME will probably use for 2.14
[05:51] <seb128> mdz: fd.o but used by gnome-applets and some other GNOME stuff
[05:52] <slomo> BenC: rhythmbox compiled against gst 0.8 can do it too
[05:52] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think I did it the right way around.  Doesn't locale-gen de_DE.UTF-8 forcefully regenerate the locale?
[05:52] <mdz> seb128: ok, let's do it
[05:52] <seb128> thanks
[05:53] <seb128> mdz: xchat-gnome 0.9 has been released today too, they did it because they learned that the Ubuntu freeze was this week and they wanted to get the current SVN ameliorations/fixes for it ... do we want to update too?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> spike: mod_userdir sets allowoverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit and Options  MultiViews Indexes SymLinksIfOwnerMatch IncludesNoExec
[05:53] <seb128> mdz: about xchat-gnome, jdub would like to switch back to xchat. Did he discuss with you about that? What is your opinion?
[05:55] <spike> Mithrandir: eh, and? that's for ~/public_html only, no? how does it make saner default for common hosting under /var/www/?
[05:55] <pitti> Riddell, seb128: new packs look good to me
[05:55] <spike> Mithrandir: a stricter default overridden in vhosts sounds better to me
[05:56] <Mithrandir> spike: it's in the default vhost here.
[05:56] <Riddell> pitti: these packs contains the locales now as well?
[05:56] <spike> aaaah, ok
[05:57] <spike> Mithrandir: tnx, didnt see it, just inspected httpd/apache2/.conf and conf.d
[05:58] <BenC> slomo: 0.8 or 0.10?
[05:58] <slomo> BenC: gst 0.8
[05:58] <BenC> is gst 0.8 newer than gst 0.10, or am I missing something? :)
[05:59] <Riddell> ah no, just calls install-language-pack
[06:00] <Riddell> pitti: yep, look good to me
[06:01] <mdz> seb128: jdub said nothing to me
[06:02] <mdz> seb128: I am pretty happy with xchat-gnome; it has a few quirks but overall seems better integrated than xchat
[06:03] <pitti> Riddell: no, not any more
[06:03] <pitti> Riddell: thanks, so I'm throwing them at the buildds now
[06:03] <seb128> mdz: I'm happy with it too and got almost no real complain (small UI issues and missing feature from people on that chan, but they are not basic users :), dunno where jdub got his feedback
[06:03] <seb128> mdz: is update to 0.9 ok?
[06:08] <HiddenWolf> I'm afraid I'll like -gnome less.
[06:09] <seb128> HiddenWolf: objective criticism is welcome, any comment to make it better?
[06:12] <seb128> pitti: language packs work fine here
[06:12] <pitti> seb128: thank you for testing
[06:12] <seb128> np
[06:12] <pitti> seb128: did you see apparent improvements?
[06:12] <seb128> xchat-gnome is translated :)
[06:12] <pitti> or, rather, regression fixes?
[06:13] <seb128> no issue noted no
[06:48] <mdz> seb128: update to 0.9 is ok with me
[06:48] <seb128> will do it so, thanks
[06:49] <spike> Mithrandir: you there? I was pondering about that apache thingie a bit more
[07:04] <BenC> slomo: nice, rhythmbox recompiled works nicely
[07:04] <slomo> BenC: can you file a bug about the banshee crash on ppc with backtrace etc?
[07:05] <BenC> the normal banshee doesn't crash, it's my local compile
[07:05] <slomo> hmm, interesting... ok ;)
[07:11] <slomo> seb128, Kamion: new xine-lib / xine-extracodecs uploaded... with hopefully correct conflicts this time and mad moved out of main
[07:11] <seb128> thank you
[07:12] <LaserJock> anybody know why xserver-common isn't around anymore?
[07:14] <seb128>    * Merge xserver-common and xorg-common packages into x11-common.
[07:15] <carlos> zyga, hi, language packs snapshots are being generated again since today
[07:15] <carlos> but this time weekly
[07:15] <LaserJock> seb128: thanks, what about all the packages that depended on xserver-common?
[07:16] <seb128> LaserJock: all, like 4 packages .. they are to rebuild
[07:17] <LaserJock> seb128: oh, sorry. I was trying to get a vncserver and most of them depend on xserver-common. I assumed it was a bigger problem
[07:17] <LaserJock> seb128: I'll just wait then :-)
[07:17] <seb128> apt-cache rdepends xserver-common
[07:18] <zyga> carlos: hello
[07:19] <zyga> carlos: thanks, is the url the same?
[07:19] <carlos> zyga, yes
[07:19] <LaserJock> seb128: weird, I didn't get anything
[07:19] <carlos> zyga, breezy's one is alsmot finished
[07:19] <carlos> will appear soon
[07:20] <zyga> carlos: thanks, I'll dig out my old infrastructure
[07:20] <carlos> ok
[07:21] <seb128> LaserJock: you probably have no deb-src
[07:22] <LaserJock> seb128: I do and it works for other packages. Oh, well. As long as it's not a big thing, I can wait
[07:23] <seb128> k
[07:49] <BenC> "Totem was not able to play this disk: No reason"
[07:54] <slomo> BenC: totem-gstreamer and a dvd?
[07:56] <dholbach> Have a nice evening and weekend.
[07:58] <\sh> BenC: sounds like windows :)
[07:59] <\sh> BenC: I had to laugh, when I saw the picture of this error message right above a similar windows error message (last time on the planet before the planet spam algorithm started ;))
[08:06] <BenC> slomo: yeah
[08:06] <slomo> BenC: totem is built against gst 0.10... and gst 0.10 has no dvd support yet
[08:07] <BenC> why is everything moving to 0.10 if 0.10 is lacking important features? :/
[08:09] <slomo> BenC: the only missing feature is dvd plugin and some other less important plugins... and dvd will be done hopefully soon
[08:10] <BenC> being able to play itunes shares is pretty important, atleast to me
[08:10] <slomo> rhythmbox from cvs can do it now afaik
[08:10] <BenC> why is rhythmbox not able to use daapsharing with gst 0.10?
[08:10] <BenC> ah
[08:10] <rob^^^> slomo: eek, I thought that was in breezy
[08:11] <rob^^^> worked well last time I tried it
[08:12] <BenC> rob^^^: probably was, but is currently broken in dapper
[08:12] <slomo> breezy had gst 0.8 and only the rhythmbox from the backports can do daap
[08:12] <mdz> rob^^^: breezy used gstreamer 0.8
[08:14] <BenC> atleast davs:// appears to be working with nautilus now
[08:14] <BenC> that was my other gripe for awhile
[08:14] <rob^^^> is there a gst testing list that is put out by fluendo? I saw something about it on p.g.o but I reloaded and someone had upgraded their blog and spammed it into nowhere again
[08:16] <\sh> looks like LiveJournal mass url changing mess
[08:17] <rob^^^> how hard is it to not post a story that has the same date and time as nother that has been seen
[08:17] <hunger> Hmmm... now that /etc/network/if-*.d works, couldn't all network services get started there (if a non-lo interface goes up)?
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: around?
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: it looks like linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 needs a retry with libqt3-mt-dev 3:3.3.5-1ubuntu15
[10:27] <mdz> on i386
[10:42] <lamont__> mdz: ok
[10:45] <lamont__> mdz: done
[10:46] <lamont__> time to go fetch kids in a couple minutes, then I'll be home
[10:53] <mdz> lamont__: thanks
[11:05] <lamont__> mdz: at least I hope it gets the new qt3.... I just gave it back, assuming that qt3 was in the archive for it...
[11:11] <mdz> lamont__: it is
[11:27] <zyga> good night friends
[11:54] <mdz> lamont__: looks good now, thanks