[12:02] <LaserJock> minghua: we do what we can and at least give as much info as we can
[12:02] <LaserJock> minghua: most will understand, and the rest we can ignore ;-)
[12:03] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah, don't even bother to think about that, just focus on what we are capable of.  my impression is that debian-science's response is generally quite positive, won't you think so?
[12:04] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, and actually debian-mentors has been good too. I had a talk with them yesterday
[12:04] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah, that's my attitude for quite some time about debian work (mostly to Chinese users, but that's a different story)
[12:04] <azeem> LaserJock: do you know why Li gave up on it?
[12:05] <LaserJock> azeem: yes, I emailed him and asked him how it was going and he told me he had given up on Debian and I could have at it
[12:05] <azeem> ugh, ok
[12:05] <azeem> LaserJock: did he have a repo or something, possibly with other stuff as well?
[12:06] <azeem> I wanted to get him more involved, but didn't get around really doing so
[12:06] <LaserJock> azeem: I'm not sure. He had gausssum at debian-mentors
[12:06] <azeem> ok
[12:06] <LaserJock> azeem: well, I'm not sure if he gave up on Debian as a whole or just gausssum in Debian
[12:07] <minghua> azeem, LaserJock: who is this Li you are talking about?  sounds like a chinese guy :-)
[12:07] <LaserJock> LI Daobing
[12:08] <minghua> Hmm, I know him :-)
[12:09] <minghua> in the IRC/mailing list sense, of course
[12:09] <minghua> so he gave up on debian?  that's news to me
[12:09] <azeem> minghua: he did IRC?
[12:09] <azeem> didn't know that
[12:09] <minghua> azeem: very rare, I think.  and probably not on freenode
[12:09] <LaserJock> minghua: sistpoty graciously let me have a tiber.tauware.de account so we have some space for MOTUScience stuff. If you think of more stuff please email motu-science or me
[12:10] <minghua> we have a #debian-zh channel on freenode, and there are also IRC servers in China
[12:10] <LaserJock> minghua: his exact quote was "How about you take this package? I have no faith for debian-mentors."
[12:11] <LaserJock> so I guess it wasn't necessarily in Debian itself
[12:11] <azeem> ah, ok
[12:11] <minghua> LaserJock: will use motu-science.  and I see you are making good use of your account :-)
[12:11] <azeem> so I shall mail him and ask whether he has some other stuff pending
[12:11] <minghua> LaserJock: I see, so probably just "gave up on being a debian package maintainer, then"
[12:12] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:13] <minghua> azeem: I know one package he tried to get sponsored many times, but without success.  not related to science, though
[12:13] <azeem> hrm
[12:13] <LaserJock> My first Debian was a breeze (2 days), but I think that was because of REVU
[12:14] <minghua> azeem: the most recent RFS being http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-mentors%40lists.debian.org/msg41575.html
[12:15] <minghua> azeem: I think I saw at least 4 RFS on debian-mentors for this package without getting one, I can understand his disappointment
[12:16] <azeem> yeah, but it is Debian now
[12:16] <azeem> ah, he took it over
[12:16] <ajmitch> that's because it's easy to let a sponsorship request slip by
[12:16] <minghua> azeem: it is, but he is trying to get new upload in, and that is the part that sucks
[12:17] <minghua> azeem: he basically shows that he is willing to continue maintaining the package and fix bugs, yet no one would sponsor him
[12:17] <Kyral> hey MOTU
[12:18] <azeem> minghua: I can see how this is hard without having a regular sponsor
[12:18] <Kyral> anyone with upload right around who would upload a bugfix for me?
[12:19] <crimsun> debdiff url?
[12:19] <Kyral> Malone 6052
[12:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6052: "Missing library dependencies" Fix req. for: dhcdbd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Fix Committed http://launchpad.net/bugs/6052
[12:19] <Kyral> I attached it
[12:19] <minghua> azeem: exactly.  that's why MOTUScience people are lucky, they have the support of DDs in the MOTU :-)
[12:20] <crimsun> Kyral: pbuilder's updating, I'll wget in a sec
[12:20] <LaserJock> minghua: well, that's actuall something I've been thinking about as well
[12:20] <LaserJock> minghua: so far MOTUScience only has one MOTU
[12:21] <ajmitch> why?
[12:21] <Kyral> Because I look at the Status options and I knwo that "Fix Released" doesn't work, so I have to choose betwenn "In Progress" and "Fix Confirmed"
[12:21] <minghua> LaserJock: things are going to become better, I am sure :-)
[12:21] <Kyral> and neither of those sound right lol
[12:22] <minghua> LaserJock: will you apply for MOTU soon?
[12:22] <ajmitch> ah, good to see those 25 zope syncs done
[12:22] <LaserJock> minghua: I'm feeling the water ;-)
[12:22] <Kyral> LJ Should become MOTU
[12:22] <Kyral> At least before me lol
[12:22] <minghua> let's see if that goes well
[12:22] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's probably worth it, depending on what others say
[12:22] <Kyral> Actually...
[12:22] <LaserJock> the thing is I feel I do more organizational work than technical work
[12:23] <ajmitch> Kyral: what issue?
[12:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: AjmitchIsGod wiki page
[12:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't be stupid
[12:23] <Kyral> I was thinking about making a spec to deal with low performance systems
[12:23] <ajmitch> why would you need to take something to the CC?
[12:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: lol, just so you can get GTKEdit into universe? ;p
[12:24] <Kyral> LaserJock: no actyallu
[12:24] <Kyral> I ran into this with my laptop
[12:24] <crimsun> Kyral: built, uploaded.
[12:24] <Kyral> GNOME is sluggish on it
[12:24] <minghua> GTKEdit?  the notepad clone with gtk 1.x?
[12:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: how about xubuntu?
[12:24] <crimsun> Kyral: that's pretty much what Jani's doing with Xubuntu
[12:24] <Kyral> crimsun: I mean like LOW performance machines
[12:25] <crimsun> Kyral: low being < 64 MB RAM?
[12:25] <LaserJock> minghua: right, he packaged it. It's on REVU
[12:25] <ajmitch> the p2-400 I was using at UDU was a bit of a clunker
[12:25] <Kyral> crimsun: yah
[12:25] <crimsun> Kyral: I hope you're thinking of directFB or something, because anything with that little RAM will have a beast of a time running X Window System.
[12:25] <minghua> Kyral: do you have gtk 2.x at all?  what desktop/window manager do you use?
[12:26] <minghua> honestly I don't see the advantage of gtkedit over leafpad, unless you still run GNOME 1.x
[12:27] <ajmitch> looks like I need a new apt-proxy
[12:27] <Kyral> minghua: my production box (this desktop) is a Athlon XP 2700+ at 2.3GHz w/512 MB RAM
[12:27] <Kyral> yet I run Flux lol
[12:28] <LaserJock> Kyral: at least do Openbox instead of Flux ;-)
[12:28] <Kyral> but my laptop is a 3 year old thing that is 256 MB Ram and Celeron
[12:28] <tseng> LaserJock++
[12:28] <Kyral> eh?
[12:28] <tseng> LaserJock: david.chalkskeletons.com/openbox.html
[12:28] <Kyral> why Openbox?
[12:29] <minghua> Kyral: have you tried leafpad?  I suppose loading gtk 2.x won't slow fluxbox significantly
[12:29] <LaserJock> cause it's better
[12:29] <Kyral> howso?
[12:29] <LaserJock> tseng: oh, that's nice ;-)
[12:29] <LaserJock> Kyral: cause
[12:29] <tseng> Kyral: 100% less blackbox?
[12:30] <Kyral> ??????
[12:30] <tseng> openbox is all the way about freedesktop stuff
[12:30] <LaserJock> Kyral: I used to run Flux a lot in my Gentoo days but Openbox was faster, and works with everything
[12:30] <tseng> fluxbox was closer to blackbox for a long time
[12:30] <tseng> its gotten more modern
[12:30] <Kyral> Nokiddin
[12:31] <tseng> what im saying is, running fluxbox in gnome was pretty crappy
[12:31] <LaserJock> it's easy to use Openbox in Gnome too
[12:31] <tseng> among other non standardness
[12:31] <Kyral> tseng: then don't run it with GNOME
[12:31] <Kyral> I run it streight up
[12:31] <LaserJock> Kyral: straight up it's better ;-)
[12:31] <crimsun> it was good to sync rxvt-unicode (urxvt) v7.0 - released: 2006-01-13
[12:32] <minghua> crimsun: did you get any words about the octave2.1 sync?
[12:32] <Kyral> so GTK2 Themes work streight up with OpenBox?
[12:33] <crimsun> minghua: no, among many many others I requested, but I understand he's swamped
[12:33] <tseng> no
[12:33] <minghua> crimsun: no problem.  I just want to make sure it's not some problem specific to octave2.1
[12:33] <minghua> crimsun: I know many other MOTUs have pending syncs too
[12:34] <ajmitch> elmo said to ask him about any pending syncs
[12:34] <LaserJock> Kyral: just try it. I like openbox+pypanel. I use it for my vnc server
[12:34] <ajmitch> since he believes he has caught up on them all
[12:34] <tseng> pypanel takes forever to configure
[12:34] <Kyral> Can I use my Dockapps with it?
[12:34] <crimsun> ajmitch: ah
[12:34] <LaserJock> Kyral: not sure
[12:37] <Kyral> yanno
[12:37] <Kyral> I would
[12:37] <Kyral> but when I just quit from Fluxbox
[12:37] <Kyral> X is dead
[12:37] <LaserJock> how dead? just mostly dead?
[12:37] <tseng> because it was the last thing in xinitrc
[12:38] <tseng> after the last process in the list dies
[12:38] <tseng> X is done
[12:38] <Kyral> no
[12:38] <Kyral> I mean not coming up period
[12:38] <Kyral> no GDM
[12:38] <LaserJock> did you dist-upgrade today?
[12:38] <Kyral> yes
[12:38] <LaserJock> so it could be the new Xorg
[12:39] <crimsun> it's just the dangling symlink
[12:39] <Kyral> okay
[12:40] <crimsun> make /usr/bin/X11/X actually point to something valid, like oh /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[12:40] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I just say zope-* go by in dapper-changes :-)
[12:41] <LaserJock> s/say/saw/ my typing sucks today. Oh, yeah. I'm using a new keyboard
[12:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's because I asked him an hour or so ago
[12:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder when he will get to my RT ticket :(
[12:42] <ajmitch> what's the ticket about?
[12:43] <LaserJock> svn access for the docteam, mdke has been bugging him quite a bit about it. I hope he doesn't get mad ;-)
[12:44] <ajmitch> ah
[12:45] <LaserJock> it's been over two weeks now I think
[12:45] <azeem> LaserJock: the gaussum.1 manpage is not being installde
[12:45] <azeem> eh, installed
[12:46] <azeem> probably easiest to pass debian/gaussum.1 to dh_installmanpages or what's it called
[12:47] <LaserJock> I call dh_installman, do I need to tell it explicitly which man page?
[12:47] <azeem> yes, I think so
[12:47] <azeem> either in debian/foo.manpages
[12:47] <azeem> or by passing it as option to dh_installman
[12:48] <LaserJock> doh, I see it now. just a sec
[12:48] <Kyral> crimsun:
[12:48] <Kyral> I had to symlink /usr/X11R6/bin/X to /usr/bin/Xorg
[12:49] <ajmitch> or you could have just waited & dist-upgraded once fixed :)
[12:49] <Kyral> nah
[12:50] <Kyral> I use Dapper because when shit breaks it gives me an opportunity to learn by fixing :D
[12:51] <LaserJock> I thought that was what Gentoo was for ;-)
[12:51] <Kyral> No, Gentoo is learning how to entertain yourself while waiting for crap to compile :D
[12:52] <LaserJock> or learning what a nice value is all about
[12:53] <crimsun> Kyral: I sidestepped the entire issue, since I don't know what symlink is going to do what, by editing /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[12:55] <Kyral> lol
[12:55] <LaserJock> ok, so what happens when the new Xorg stuff breaks other packages? I can't install vnc4server because it depends on xserver-common
[12:55] <Kyral> and yah
[12:55] <Kyral> Openbox.
[12:55] <Kyral> Looks okay
[12:55] <Kyral> but I like Flux for how easy the config files are to understand :P
[12:55] <LaserJock> azeem: ok, fixed
[12:55] <tseng> use obconf
[12:55] <tseng> and be happy
[12:55] <LaserJock> lol, +1
[12:56] <Kyral> tseng: obconf no writes menus for me ;P
[12:57] <LaserJock> Kyral: tseng just gave me a great URL: http://david.chalkskeletons.com/openbox.html
[12:57] <LaserJock> http://obmenu.sourceforge.net/
[01:00] <Kyral> fine fine
[01:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: no pressure, but if you don't like Openbox your off MOTUScience ;-) *just kidding*
[01:02] <Kyral> *STAB*
[01:04] <Kyral> obmenu no work
[01:05] <ajmitch> sigh
[01:05] <ajmitch> 270 upgraded, 8 newly installed, 6 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
[01:05] <ajmitch> Need to get 182MB of archives.
[01:05] <ajmitch> and I'm restricted to ~64Kbps at the moment
[01:32] <Kyral> crimsun: did you close the bug?
[01:34] <crimsun> Kyral: for which?
[01:34] <Kyral> the thing you uploaded for me..dh whatever
[01:34] <crimsun> Kyral: no
[01:35] <Kyral> Okay I'll close it
[01:35] <crimsun> dhcdbd iirc
[01:39] <Kyral> okay done
[01:39] <crimsun> LaserJock: whew, I almost thought I was going mad there
[01:39] <LaserJock> somebody's got to keep track of him ;-)
[01:40] <azeem> LaserJock: I've uploaded it
[01:40] <LaserJock> azeem: oh, thank you so much.
[01:40] <Kyral> azeem: how does EasyChem progress?
[01:41] <LaserJock> Kyral: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[01:42] <ajmitch> the debian NEW queue has stalled a little lately
[01:44] <Kyral> ah
[01:50] <bmonty> anyone used gq lately (GTK LDAP browser)?
[01:50] <ajmitch> nope, not lately
[01:51] <LaserJock> hmm, is it OK to unplug a PS2 keyboard while your comp is still running?
[01:52] <bmonty> I'm working on Malone #6629, and I wondering about enabling the SSL and SASL features
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6629: "userPassword Support not available, because it is not build with libssl-dev" Fix req. for: gq (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: In Progress http://launchpad.net/bugs/6629
[01:52] <minghua> LaserJock: if you don't want to use keyboard anymore, yes :-)
[01:52] <bmonty> I have a package that depends on libssl-dev and libsasl2-dev and they seem to work correctly, but the debian maintainer has some info in the BTS saying there are bugs, but no details
[01:53] <LaserJock> minghua: so will it fry it?
[01:53] <LaserJock> minghua: I just want to use a different keyboard
[01:53] <crimsun> LaserJock: it won't fry it, you'll just need to reset state, generally via a reboot
[01:53] <bmonty> LaserJock: I don't think you would fry anything, but some motherboards won't bring up the keyboard without a reset when you reconnect it
[01:54] <minghua> LaserJock: I've done it once or twice before, no harm done, except you need to ssh into it to reboot it
[01:54] <LaserJock> darn
[01:54] <LaserJock> ok, I'll stay with this one for a while then. darn cider :(
[01:54] <ajmitch> bmonty: is gq under the GPL?
[01:54] <bmonty> so with gq, I can verify that SASL works with my setup, so I'm wondering if we should enable the feature in the ubuntu package
[01:55] <ajmitch> bmonty: would you try & link gq with openssl or with gnutls?
[01:55] <ajmitch> gpl+openssl don't mix without a gpl exception
[01:56] <bmonty> ajmitch: gq is GPL, and yes my local packge is linked with OpenSSL
[01:56] <bmonty> your point is taken though
[01:56] <ajmitch> well they mix
[01:56] <ajmitch> but we can't distribute in that case :)
[01:57] <bmonty> well the SASL part that I care about works :)
[01:58] <bmonty> I'll have to try it with gnutls and see what happens
[01:58] <LaserJock> brb, swaping keyboards, stupid memory leak is eating all my RAM
[01:59] <LaserJock> cause I can get rid of both with a reboot ;-)
[01:59] <bmonty> ah :)
[02:06] <LaserJock> ahh, better
[02:10] <LaserJock> keyboard works and and I gained 300MB of RAM
[02:10] <Kyral> eh?
[02:10] <Kyral> WTF did you do?
[02:10] <LaserJock> rebooted
[02:10] <Kyral> ......
[02:11] <LaserJock> cider spill from yesterday and some sort of memory leak
[02:11] <Kyral> lol
[02:12] <LaserJock> spacebar is a little stiff though :(
[02:12] <Kyral> lol
[02:13] <LaserJock> oh well, in a week or so I'll have a new iMac to use
[02:13] <LaserJock> new keyboard
[02:13] <Kyral> em
[02:13] <LaserJock> only stupid 1-button mouse
[02:13] <Kyral> ICK
[02:13] <LaserJock> that'l go real quick
[02:13] <Kyral> I cannot live without a 3 button + scroll wheel
[02:14] <LaserJock> well, actually I'll have a MightyMouse so it has a scroll ball and side buttons
[02:15] <Kyral> hub ty for voting on GTKEdit
[02:15] <bmonty> ajmitch: if the copying file allows OpenSSL can we package it in ubuntu?
[02:16] <hub> bmonty: why do they still use it?
[02:16] <hub> :-/
[02:16] <bmonty> hub: gq...its an old program
[02:17] <hub> ah
[02:17] <ajmitch> bmonty: if the source says it can, then debian/copyright needs clarified
[02:17] <hub> if I had time I would port netatalk to libnss
[02:17] <Kyral> guys, stupid question, but when did Multiverse go official?
[02:18] <tseng> when?
[02:18] <tseng> official?
[02:18] <bmonty> source and the package COPYING say it is ok
[02:18] <ajmitch> Kyral: at the beginning?
[02:18] <crimsun> with Warty.
[02:18] <Kyral> yah just makin' sure
[02:18] <Kyral> someone thought that it wasn't lol
[02:18] <azeem> I would've thought it was between warty and hoary
[02:19] <ajmitch> azeem: I think it was in place at the start, but I didn't install warty on my systems
[02:19] <azeem> indeed, it was
[02:20] <Kyral> I've been thinking about doing a Debian install
[02:20] <ajmitch> I wonder why there seems to be a long delay between incoming & packages hitting the pool in sid at the moment
[02:21] <LaserJock> my other package has been in NEW for a week
[02:21] <azeem> ajmitch: they hit the pool fine I guess, it's just the mirroring which takes agaes
[02:21] <azeem> running apt-ftparchive rather, I heard
[02:21] <ajmitch> right
[02:22] <ajmitch> I frequently look on http.us.d.o & see my packages still aren't there
[02:22] <ajmitch> same on ftp.d.o
[02:23] <LaserJock> I don't use *.us.* for anything anymore :(
[02:23] <azeem> ajmitch: maybe packages.qa.d.o/<package> has better information, is displays the version for unstable/testing
[02:23] <ajmitch> sure, it says the package was ACCEPTED
[02:23] <azeem> unless you want the .deb itself of course, d'oh
[02:23] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:23] <ajmitch> having the deb available is nice
[02:24] <azeem> ajmitch: well, ACCEPTED is from -devel-changes, so that's when it hits incoming
[02:24] <ajmitch> especially when the upload was done to make it installable again
[02:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: what's wrong?
[02:24] <azeem> ajmitch: tell your users to get from incoming
[02:24] <Kyral> Nah just got depressed for a sec
[02:24] <azeem> "Three words for you: Fixed in incoming. Kthxbye"
[02:24] <ajmitch> azeem: that's what I mean - it disappeared from incoming, and hasn't shown up yet
[02:24] <Kyral> Oh well, one new changelog entry for me :D
[02:24] <ajmitch> it's happened for the 8 or so packages I've uploaded lately :)
[02:25] <ajmitch> there's a black hole somewhere in the process
[02:27] <ajmitch> when you're ready
[02:28] <Kyral> yah tryin' to figure that out lol
[02:28] <bmonty> ajmitch: is this a good description of the openssl license issue? http://www.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html
[02:28] <Kyral> Right now I'm thinkin' sometime in Dapper + 1
[02:28] <ajmitch> bmonty: yes
[02:29] <ajmitch> bmonty: and debian takes the position that they can't use the 'distributed with a system' loophole because they are distributing that system
[02:29] <Kyral> hmmm
[02:30] <Kyral> how would the idea of a GUI for PBuilder sound?
[02:30] <bmonty> ajmitch: is that documented in the policy manual (I looked real quick but didn't see it)
[02:30] <bmonty> Kyral: for what purpose?
[02:30] <ajmitch> no, I doubt it'd be part of policy
[02:30] <ajmitch> possible though
[02:31] <bmonty> ajmitch: ok, thanks
[02:31] <bmonty> probably a discussion on debian-legal or something?
[02:31] <Kyral> bmonty: for those Devs who are GUI oriented, and for ease of managing multiple pbuilders
[02:31] <tseng> devs
[02:31] <tseng> gui oriented
[02:31] <tseng> ?
[02:32] <Kyral> Yes they exist...
[02:32] <bmonty> Kyral: I could see the multi-pbuilder case, but I think the pbuilder CLI is nicely done
[02:32] <bmonty> very efficient
[02:32] <Kyral> Just an idea
[02:32] <LaserJock> I use pbuilder from within other scripts
[02:32] <Kyral> I mean Apt-Get is all you need, but people still prefer Synaptic
[02:32] <Kyral> ^some
[02:33] <LaserJock> Kyral: I think some sort of multiple pbuilder manager would be nice
[02:33] <bmonty> Kyral: I'm just interested in what a GUI for pbuilder would provide, not knocking the idea
[02:34] <Kyral> well, like Cache management, Result management, PBuilder management, etc
[02:34] <LaserJock> Kyral: it would be easier if you came up with use cases or something
[02:34] <Kyral> I guess its for me more lol
[02:35] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I would be interested but I'm not sure what I would do with it
[02:35] <Kyral> I have to learn PyGTK first ;P
[02:35] <ajmitch> those use cases aren't ones that are done often
[02:37] <bmonty> pygtk is fairly straightforward :)
[02:37] <Kyral> yah,. but I don't even know much Python yet ;P
[02:37] <bmonty> I have a gtktreeview working in python, and I was never able to get one to do what I wanted in C
[02:37] <ajmitch> your choice as to whether it's a good use of time
[02:38] <Kyral> People ether think in terms of the commandline or GUI
[02:38] <ajmitch> and pbuilder is generally a commandline tool
[02:38] <Kyral> yah, so was Apt, until Synaptic
[02:38] <ajmitch> as nearly all package building is
[02:38] <bmonty> Kyral: I think in terms of which is the most efficient interface
[02:39] <ajmitch> they're different
[02:39] <Kyral> bmonty: *shrug*
[02:39] <ajmitch> you can't compare pbuilder & apt in that way
[02:39] <Kyral> sorry
[02:40] <LaserJock> Kyral: I understand what your trying to do but you need more motivation than "lets GUIify a CLI app". Just think about ways in which your GUI app could be more efficient than the CLI one
[02:41] <Kyral> I personally think a CLI is always more efficient, but I knwo there are peopel out there who cannot stand the CLI
[02:41] <minghua> Kyral: why would those people want to play with pbuilder, then?
[02:41] <ajmitch> and those people are very unlikely to be building packages
[02:42] <LaserJock> Kyral: not so much cannot stand CLI as find GUI to be more efficient for them
[02:42] <bmonty> I don't think the CLI is always more efficient...f-spot is much better than "ls *.jpg"
[02:42] <LaserJock> exactly
[02:42] <Kyral> minghua: I have a friend who is a wizard with Webcoding, yet she loves the GUI. She prefers Synaptic over Apt
[02:43] <LaserJock> Kyral: but that isn't necessarily the point. It's not all GUI or all CLI, it's what is most efficient and easy to use for the task
[02:43] <minghua> Kyral: no problem with that, I've seen many of those people too.  The question still is: why the hell do they want to touch pbuilder?
[02:43] <azeem> Kyral: good GUI design is hard
[02:43] <azeem> even more so when doing it on top of a CLI app I guess
[02:43] <ajmitch> why do you keep comparing synaptic & apt?
[02:43] <Kyral> fine
[02:44] <Kyral> GParted and Parted
[02:44] <azeem> there is libparted
[02:45] <ajmitch> and pbuilder is designed to give you a lot of text output that cannot easily be put into a GUI, without just throwing in a big textarea
[02:46] <Kyral> I knew it would be blasted apart
[02:46] <LaserJock> although something like an IDE for packaging would be kinda cool
[02:46] <minghua> and in my opinion, even if pbuilder is GUIfied, those people still can't use it efficiently, what about editing debian/control and debian/changelog?  what about checking dependencies?  what about make? :-P
[02:47] <Kyral> actually LJ has a good idea....
[02:47] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we call it emacs :)
[02:47] <Kyral> lol
[02:47] <LaserJock> lol
[02:47] <LaserJock> I still haven't used emacs for packaging
[02:48] <ajmitch> it has somem useful modes for editing changelogs & control files
[02:48] <LaserJock> I'll have to look into it. I just find vim easier for editing
[02:48] <bmonty> I call it vim
[02:48] <Kyral> I dunno
[02:48] <bmonty> death to all you emacs zealots! :)
[02:48] <ajmitch> especially when it's used for actual debian packaging, when you can see the list of open bugs in the emacs menu, etc
[02:48] <Kyral> Maybe I'll just write this thing for myself and if I think its very good...
[02:48] <ajmitch> Kyral: sure, someone might use it
[02:49] <ajmitch> Kyral: we're just making sure you consider wisely if it's a good use of time :)
[02:49] <ajmitch> since we've got all these dapper bugs to fix
[02:49] <Kyral> ajmitch: this will prolly be like a summer project or something in my idle time
[02:50] <LaserJock> Kyral: you might also think of other packaging related apps that maybe are more appropriate for GUIfication
[02:50] <Kyral> lintian?
[02:51] <ajmitch> how would lintian work with a GUI?
[02:52] <Kyral> Instead of just telling you to read Section foobar of the Policy Manual you could click on it and have <insert webbrowser here> open to the section ;P
[02:52] <LaserJock> I was thinking more like a gui for looking at large amounts of apt-cache type stuff
[02:52] <Kyral> or that
[02:53] <LaserJock> like gimme a list of ubuntuX packages w
[02:53] <LaserJock> you could interface with lucas's mdt or something
[02:53] <Kyral> LCA?
[02:53] <ajmitch> linux.conf.au
[02:55] <LaserJock_away> dinner time, bbl
[03:00] <ajmitch> Lathiat: how'd you get hooked into doing talks about debian & ubuntu now?
[03:03] <minghua> crimsun: thank you so much for the octave2.1 sync
[03:03] <Lathiat> ajmitch: someone asked and i sillily volunteered? :)
[03:07] <ajmitch> Lathiat: they looked at the list of active uploaders? ;)
[03:07] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I'll have to sit in the front row & heckle away
[03:08] <ajmitch> ah, it's in castle 2, a decent sized lecture theatre
[03:08] <Lathiat> ajmitch: got a spare flame retardent suit? :)
[03:08] <ajmitch> sure, I've got an ubuntu tshirt sitting around here :)
[03:08] <Lathiat> hahaha
[03:09] <Lathiat> i dont have one of those
[03:09] <ajmitch> I'm sure you won't mind corrections from the audience ;)
[03:10] <ajmitch> reminds me, I should wear my ubuntu tshirt to the debian miniconf
[03:11] <ajmitch> ok, time for me to go
[03:11] <ajmitch> if I don't see you beforehand, I'll talk to you on monday :)
[03:47] <\sh> moins
[03:51] <bmonty> hi \sh
[03:52] <\sh> gnarf..12h ISP forced disconnect
[03:55] <\sh> building wine 0.9.6
[03:56] <bmonty> good luck :)
[03:57] <\sh> I was just announced :) and I can't sleep anymore...same luck as with python-kde3...2 UVF exception reports in less then 2 days...fun
[03:58] <bmonty> I understand the concept behind UVF, but it seems to be impractical in a lot of cases
[03:59] <\sh> no...but regarding some packages it can be quite good to have new upstream versions for the new release. regarding python-kde3, it fixed a lot of issues we had with this package, and I can drop now some serious patches from our packages.
[04:00] <\sh> the same applies for wine. since 0.9.4 wine is more stable then ever. So it's good to have it. But after FF, there is no way to do that anymore. Because we don't have much time to test anymore...
[04:01] <\sh> and why the heck is libqt3-mt-dev not installable
[04:07] <hub> hugin uploaded.
[04:07] <hub> uploading autopano-sift
[04:08] <bmonty> good night everyone
[04:09] <Kyral> jeez Hub you are on a roll
[04:09] <hub> Kyral: my packages where waiting for upload
[04:09] <Kyral> lol
[04:09] <hub> I'll purge the list top to bottom
[04:09] <Kyral> one more vote for GTKEdit...
[04:10] <hub> but upload is fscking slow.
[04:10] <hub> I blame my modem
[04:10] <hub> I need to find a new one. this one is crashing all the time
[04:11] <\sh> hub: are you motu now?
[04:12] <hub> \sh: yeah. and I have upload rights
[04:12] <\sh> hub: congrats..since when? I think I missed your advocation somehow...sadly
[04:12] <hub> tuesday
[04:12] <hub> it was the CC
[04:12] <hub> TB
[04:12] <hub> i meant
[04:14] <\sh> hub: cool :)
[04:15] <hub> so how is life?
[04:16] <\sh> hub: could be better...
[04:17] <hub> btw, since we are in UVF, what is the point with new universe packages
[04:17] <hub> can they go in?
[04:18] <\sh> new universe packages, if they do not need new libs in main can go in until FF
[04:18] <hub> okay
[04:21] <hub> so UVF is only for main?
[04:22] <\sh> no.
[04:23] <\sh> see #ubuntu-devel just now :)
[04:23] <Kyral> It means that no new Upstream versions
[04:23] <Kyral> unless its like a major security thing
[04:24] <Kyral> right?
[04:26] <\sh> Kyral: if it's a major security thing, we have to decide if we backport the security fix, or introduce the new version..this depends what is a much better solution
[04:38] <ajmitch> hey \sh
[04:38] <\sh> good morning ajmitch :)
[04:38] <hub> how to I make a signed .changes?
[04:38] <hub> when I'm not the last in the changelog
[04:39] <\sh> debuild -S [-sa]  -k<your gpg uid>
[04:39] <hub> ah
[04:39] <\sh> -sa if it will be a source upload
[04:40] <\sh> ajmitch: preparing wine 0.9.6
[04:40] <hub> debsign -k works
[04:41] <\sh> hub: think about *_source.changes :)
[04:41] <\sh> not the .changes file for the binaries :)
[04:41] <hub> yeah
[04:41] <hub> only the _source.changes
[04:42] <hub> I don't even debuild there
[04:42] <hub> I pbuild directly
[04:42] <ajmitch> \sh: how many regressions this time? ;)
[04:42] <\sh> there shouldn't be any, but I can be wrong...
[04:42] <ajmitch> hub: right, why would you sign something that you haven't changed? :)
[04:43] <\sh> problem is, I don't have much for testing wine :)
[04:51] <hub> ajmitch: upload?
[04:51] <hub> or I messed up something
[04:52] <ajmitch> hub: your entry should be at the top of the changelog
[04:52] <ajmitch> you should only need -k if your email address in the changelog isn't on your gpg keyring
[04:52] <hub> ajmitch: upload stuff from REVU
[04:52] <ajmitch> ah right
[04:52] <ajmitch> that's fine then :)
[04:52] <hub> so -k
[04:52] <hub> thx
[04:53] <hub> that all I wanted to hear :-)
[04:53] <hub> ajmitch: mine have been uploaded
[04:53] <hub> the one advocated
[04:57] <ajmitch> ok
[04:57] <ajmitch> what packages?
[05:04] <hub> ajmitch: hugin, autopano-sift
[05:06] <ajmitch> great
[05:06] <ajmitch> I noticed they have been packaged in debian recently
[05:07] <ajmitch> at least autopano-sift is still in debian NEW
[05:15] <crimsun> minghua: np :)
[05:15] <hub> oh
[05:15] <hub> ajmitch: 'cause these are "my" packages. I'll check debian. they have been waiting there for some time
[05:16] <hub> ajmitch: where do I find the incoming of Debian?
[05:17] <minghua> hub: are you talking about incoming or NEW?
[05:17] <hub> minghua: NEW I mean
[05:17] <ajmitch> incoming is incoming.debian.org
[05:17] <minghua> hub: incoming is incoming.debian.org
[05:17] <ajmitch> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[05:18] <hub> thx
[05:18] <minghua> ajmitch is faster than I :-)
[05:18] <hub> that is my package they ported to Debian
[05:18] <hub> cool
[05:19] <ajmitch> ok :)
[05:19] <ajmitch> minghua: I have it in my browser history, I check it every day or two at the moment ;)
[05:20] <hub> I should file a RFP for hugin now :-)
[05:20] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:20] <ajmitch> or ITP if you want to maintain it yourself
[05:20] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, does ubuntu have something similar to that new page?
[05:20] <ajmitch> have you talked to the new autopano-sift debian maintainer?
[05:20] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, why does a package languish in new?
[05:20] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: no
[05:21] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: because ftp-master has to check every package for licensing and various other criteria
[05:21] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, oh joy
[05:21] <ajmitch> it's essential
[05:21] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, is this what elmo does for Ubuntu?
[05:21] <ajmitch> yes
[05:21] <ajmitch> packages that have undistributable files can't slip into debian
[05:21] <minghua> according to what I heard here, ubuntu is fast enough so we don't need a NEW web interface :-)
[05:21] <ajmitch> minghua: pretty much
[05:21] <ajmitch> we also have far fewer NEW packages
[05:21] <Burgundavia> what does infinity mean when he has to work on the buildds? Is that seperate?
[05:22] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: quite separate
[05:22] <ajmitch> this is about accepting new source packages (which can build new binary packages also) into the archive
[05:22] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, what sort of work does he have to do? (sorry about all the questions, but never pigeon-holed someone and asked thses questions)
[05:22] <ajmitch> after that the buildds take them
[05:22] <whiprush> ftpmaster has to be one of the shittiest jobs in all of oss, talk about thankless.
[05:23] <ajmitch> infinity has to manage the build chroots, sometimes manually kicking things to get things building
[05:23] <Burgundavia> whiprush, I can see why elmo makes himself invisible in debian
[05:23] <whiprush> heh
[05:23] <ajmitch> eg a circular build-dependency has to be broken, or a broken package kills the chroot
[05:23] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, sometimes the builds break the chroots and they need to be fixed?
[05:23] <ajmitch> yep
[05:23] <ajmitch> and that's irritating
[05:23] <ajmitch> they don't clean the chroots after every build
[05:24] <ajmitch> sometimes a broken binary enters the archive & kills other builds as well :)
[05:24] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, is this worse in debian or ubuntu?
[05:24] <ajmitch> hard to say
[05:24] <ajmitch> I don't hear much of what goes on in that area
[05:24] <Burgundavia> about the buildds, they are all controlled by canonical right?
[05:24] <\sh> dude where is my life...just not one day of UVF, and I wrote my second exception report....THIS CAN'T BE TRUE
[05:25] <ajmitch> \sh: don't worry, I've got a stack to write up soon
[05:25] <ajmitch> zope3 is uninstallable because its dependency is still in debian NEW
[05:25] <ajmitch> so that new dependency will have to get into main
[05:25] <\sh> "When reading any modern physics book the average person may be surprised to 
[05:25] <\sh>  find that time is not constant in the universe."
[05:25] <\sh> -- Guy Cramer (http://www.direct.ca/trinity/y3nf.html)
[05:25] <ajmitch> (yes doko, I filed a bug :) )
[05:25] <\sh> actually I found the truth about the universe :)
[05:26] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:26] <\sh> ajmitch: the cleaning of the chroot should be introduced when Soyuz lands, I think
[05:26] <ajmitch> I'm not sure if they are or not
[05:27] <ajmitch> kinnison would probably know
[05:27] <psusi> is time not constant in the universe?  or is it meerly our perception of time that differs? ;)
[05:27] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, how does debian deal with the issue of buildds under the control of random people/companies?
[05:27] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: they aren't
[05:27] <\sh> psusi: the fact is, the universe doesn't expand, it implodes :)
[05:28] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: all buildds are under debian administration
[05:28] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, ah, is there is a buildd team?
[05:28] <ajmitch> yes
[05:28] <psusi> \sh, naw... it expands under the influence of either dark energy, or electricity depending on your religion
[05:28] <psusi> ;)
[05:28] <Burgundavia> but they are not hosted centrally?
[05:28] <ajmitch> there can be unofficial buildds, but every upload has to be signed by a debian developer
[05:29] <ajmitch> nope, too many archs in debian to have a central buildd hosting
[05:29] <\sh> psusi: hhe
[05:29] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, ah
[05:29] <psusi> I heard a great joke today...
[05:29] <psusi> A guy walks into a bar and has a monkey... the bar tender says hey, you can't bring that in here
[05:30] <psusi> the guy says relax man, he's tame... he won't cause trouble...
[05:30] <psusi> bar tender says ok, fine
[05:30] <psusi> so the monkey starts doing things like playing with the bar nuts, drinking other people's beer
[05:30] <psusi> finally the monkey eats the pool queue, and the bar tender says that's it man, get that monkey out of here!
[05:30] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: a more experience DD can probably correct mistakes of mine :)
[05:31] <psusi> nobody sees the guy for 3 weeks, then he finally comes back, and tells the bar tender, relax man.. he learned his lesson last time, he's fine now
[05:31] <ajmitch> hub: have you archived your uploads on revu?
[05:31] <psusi> so a while later, the monkey sees some cherries on the bar and shoves one up his ass
[05:31] <psusi> the bar tender asks the guy why the hell did your monkey shoave that cherry up his ass?
[05:31] <hub> ajmitch: I did
[05:31] <ajmitch> thanks
[05:31] <psusi> the guy says "ever since he ate that queue ball, he measures everything first"
[05:31] <hub> commented as uploaded and archived
[05:32] <\sh> lol
[05:32] <psusi> ;)
[05:32] <\sh> argl
[05:32] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, so in general, the debian and ubuntu upload/build dark-magic machines are similar?
[05:33] <\sh> Your mail to 'Ubuntu-motu' with the subject
[05:33] <\sh>   [UVF Exception Report]  wine 0.9.6
[05:33] <\sh> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
[05:33] <psusi> btw... now that I understand it... the zsync look inside algorithm rocks
[05:33] <\sh> The reason it is being held:
[05:33] <\sh>   Message body is too big: 73509 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
[05:33] <Burgundavia> \sh, you prewriting the wine report?
[05:33] <\sh> 70k is nothing
[05:34] <psusi> what's it got attached that makes it that big?
[05:34] <\sh> psusi: diffstat and ChangeLog diff
[05:34] <psusi> hrm...
[05:35] <crimsun> anyone running Dapper with a usb dvd device?
[05:35] <\sh> Burgundavia: it's written and send to ubuntu-motu...but somehow the listserver is somehow to stupid..ok 1MB is much for a mail but 70k is just like 40k to me
[05:35] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: currently they are quite similar
[05:35] <psusi> yea... that is a rather low limit
[05:35] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: when we switch to soyuz (like we were meant to > 6 months ago), they will be very different
[05:35] <psusi> should be upped to 100k or so
[05:35] <\sh> crimsun: I have to burn flight 3 tomorrow, then I have a usb dvd burner on this laptop running dapper
[05:35] <Burgundavia> \sh, hmm
[05:35] <ajmitch> \sh: who's admin of ubuntu-motu?
[05:35] <\sh> ajmitch: dholbach i think
[05:36] <ajmitch> \sh: that's the problem with sending diffs, many UVF requests are going to be big
[05:36] <psusi> I burned flight 3 the other night... tried to modify it to include my udebified dmraid package... d-i bitches though and refuses to continue... I don't know what's wrong
[05:36] <ajmitch> and every subscribed motu or otherwise will be spammed with them
[05:36] <\sh> Burgundavia: for universe we decide as a team for UVF exceptions and dholbach collects them and send them to kamion/mdz for approval
[05:36] <\sh> Burgundavia: for main packages I'm writing uvf reports directly to kamion/mdz
[05:36] <Burgundavia> \sh, yep (I am subscribed for -motu for some crazy reason)
[05:37] <\sh> well, to be honest, for wine I would deal with kamion or mdz directly, because we will have a lot of bug reports why we don't include at least the latest version of wine...but I think 0.9.6 will be the last exception
[05:38] <\sh> for wine actually
[05:38] <minghua> sync from debian with the same upstream version doesn't count as breaking UVF, right?
[05:38] <\sh> but if 1.0.0 is still in time for dapper...I would like to include it somehow :)
[05:38] <psusi> so anyone feel like reviewing my latest dmraid package on revu and see if the udeb version looks ok? just contains /sbin/dmraid and a postinst that runs it... as long as that is run before the installer looks for disks, should be fine
[05:38] <\sh> minghua: no...new revisions of debian packages are not counting as UVF breakage
[05:39] <psusi> huh?  UVF freeze = no more auto syncs from debian
[05:39] <\sh> psusi: that's right...
[05:39] <\sh> psusi: or elmo adjusted the auto-sync script
[05:40] <psusi> so a new debian package version that is not from a new upstream release isn't allowed without an exception
[05:40] <\sh> psusi: but more likely we have to check manually for new revisions of debian packages
[05:40] <\sh> psusi: wine_0.9.5-2 would be ok, wine_0.9.6-1 only with exception report
[05:40] <minghua> well, I don't mind requesting for sync, as long as I don't need to write report
[05:40] <minghua> :-)
[05:41] <\sh> minghua: if there is a rational and a risk analysis, you can write it to ubuntu-motu, as proposed by dholbach.
[05:42] <Burgundavia> \sh, rationale, not rational. The latter is a state of being
[05:42] <\sh> minghua: when we find a general agreement, that it's worth to include the new version of a software, then to stick with the old one, we have the right arguments for our release managers :)
[05:42] <Burgundavia> \sh, the former is an argument for said existent
[05:42] <Burgundavia> ce
[05:42] <\sh> Burgundavia: thx :) will fix my spelling :)
[05:43] <\sh> patch -p1 < \\sh_spelling_fix.patch
[05:43] <\sh> hehe :)
[05:43] <Burgundavia> \sh, one hopes you are the latter, as its opposite meaning is that you are insane
[05:44] <psusi> no... the opposite of rational is irrational, which is not the same thing as insane
[05:44] <Burgundavia> psusi, true
[05:44] <\sh> Burgundavia: hmmm..I thought I am ;)
[05:44] <minghua> \sh: thanks, I think I'll write exception report for one of my debian package soon
[05:44] <Burgundavia> psusi, in common usage, irrational and insane are similar
[05:44] <psusi> I think I used to be someone, now I just stare into the sun
[05:45] <minghua> (after it's uploaded by my sponsor, that is)
[05:45] <psusi> Burgundavia, there's a lot of stupididity in common usage ;)
[05:45] <Burgundavia> psusi, yes, but is works for ESL people
[05:45] <Burgundavia> s/is/it
[05:46] <psusi> a lot of people also believe you get fat from genetics or other things outside your control, not from eating too much and excercizing too little... which is why there are so many fat people... heh
[05:47] <Burgundavia> psusi, it is scary how much difference 50 km makes. That is how close I live to the US border and the people in the states are much much bigger
[05:47] <psusi> Burgundavia, ahh, Canadian?
[05:47] <Burgundavia> psusi, yep, west coast
[05:47] <psusi> you see that movie "Supersize me"?
[05:48] <psusi> scarry shit... even moreso because it's true
[05:48] <Burgundavia> psusi, yep
[05:48] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: ESL? doesn't that describe much of the US? :)
[05:49] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, point taken
[05:49] <psusi> it's been 10 years now since I swore to God I would never eat at McDonald's again if I survived that time.... and I don't even believe in God
[05:49] <psusi> ESL?
[05:49] <ajmitch> english as a second language
[05:49] <ajmitch> (at least that's a common abbreviation)
[05:49] <psusi> I did a lab in 8th grade on Mcdonald's food and count it to me 20% lard, 80% starch, 0 protien
[05:49] <psusi> lol
[05:50] <ajmitch> mmm, highly processed carbs
[05:50] <psusi> s/count/found
[05:51] <\sh> actually I like to eat burgers from burger king......
[05:51] <psusi> that last time I ate there I swear it felt like it was coming out of me sideways... I doubt a spinal tap would have been more painfull
[05:52] <psusi> I used to prefer them at least to McDonalds... but I haven't even eaten there in a year or two
[05:52] <\sh> but I'm smoking, so I'm avoiding to increase my weight
[05:52] <psusi> I quit smoking thanksgiving ;)
[05:52] <ajmitch> \sh: I was eating that sort of thing last year
[05:52] <psusi> went out the night before thanksgiving and got smashed and smoked too much
[05:52] <ajmitch> as you could probably tell by seeing me at UBZ
[05:52] <psusi> got walking pnemonia from it that hung on for 4 weeks
[05:52] <psusi> not fun
[05:52] <ajmitch> so far I've lost nearly 10kg this year
[05:53] <psusi> decided that was it... no more smoking
[05:53] <\sh> ajmitch: well...but you don't smoke...you can eat burger king or mcdonalds when you smoke ;)
[05:53] <psusi> but... I've still got my 10 cases of special seaonal Tucher I got thanksgiving
[05:53] <ajmitch> 3 hour walks up & down hills around here helps a lot ;)
[05:53] <psusi> damn that is some fine ass beer
[05:53] <ajmitch> mm
[05:54] <\sh> ajmitch: well, I don't drive a car, so I'm fortunate to use my legs for reaching point b from point a :)
[05:54] <ajmitch> yeah, I don't drive either
[05:54] <ajmitch> psusi: that's not too bad
[05:55] <psusi> trying to get places without a car doesn't work... don't have 3 hours to walk 8 miles
[05:55] <ajmitch> dunedin is small enough that I can get to the main places in 10-15 minutes that I care about
[05:55] <\sh> ok..it's 4:55 UTC...time to hit the bed again for a couple of hours...and then getting ready for some freelance job meeting
[05:55] <psusi> "what if everything around you isn't quite what it seems? what if all the world you think you know is an elaborate dream"
[05:56] <ajmitch> night \sh  :)
[05:56] <psusi> "and if you look at your reflection, is that all you want to be?"
[05:56] <psusi> "what if you could look right through the cracks?  would you find yourself, find yourself afriad to see?"
[05:56] <\sh> g'night cu later today :)
[05:56] <psusi> "what if all the world's inside of your head?  just creations of your own?"
[05:57] <psusi> "your devils and your gods, all the living and the dead, and you really ought to know"
[05:57] <psusi> "you can live in this illusion, you can choose to believe"
[05:57] <psusi> "you keep looking but you can't find the words, are you hiding in the trees?"
[05:58] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, how does one properly refer to the entire debian package management system? apt? dpkg?
[05:58] <ajmitch> dunno :)
[05:59] <Burgundavia> too much blood in yer head, from hangin upside down
[05:59] <psusi> I just knew it as dselect several years ago when I ran debian... ;)
[06:12] <Burgundavia> ok, this is just stupid --> http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2006/01/19/what-the-heck-is-with-this-1501-update/
[06:13] <minghua> dselect is the only user tool in Debian's package management system that I am afraid of :-)
[06:14] <psusi> what's wron with that?
[06:14] <psusi> ( both the firefox thing and dselect )
[06:14] <minghua> I don't see anything wrong with the firefox thing either
[06:15] <Burgundavia> they are inflicting a beta on people who didn't ask for it
[06:15] <minghua> as for dselect, it's not wrong, it's just I had bad experience with it as a newbie, and hasn't used that since I discovered aptitude
[06:15] <minghua> fear because of ignorance, perhaps :-)
[06:17] <psusi> they DID ask for it... by installing the last beta
[06:18] <Burgundavia> psusi, I disagree
[06:18] <Burgundavia> psusi, they agreed to install the LAST beta, not this one
[06:18] <psusi> you agreed to be a beta tester... you didn't say otherwise since then by auto upgrading to the stable release ;)
[06:19] <Burgundavia> psusi, so because i installing breezy before it was stable my machine should magically start upgrading me through dapper? I don't think so
[06:19] <psusi> possibly
[06:20] <psusi> if you wanted stable, you would have waited for breezy to go stable ;)
[06:20] <Burgundavia> note that debian also has this problem
[06:20] <psusi> even if it doesn't upgrade beyond that, starting with an unstable prerlease, I expect problems
[08:24] <raphink> hi zakame
[08:25] <zakame> heya raphink :) what's up?
[08:25] <raphink> not much :)
[08:25] <raphink> reviewing, reviewing, reviewing :)
[08:25] <raphink> hmm and reviewing too :)
[08:26] <raphink> you?
[08:26] <zakame> still feeling tired, I got back home yesterday from Manila, it was enjoyable but tiring
[08:27] <raphink> oh nice :)
[08:27] <raphink> where are you now?
[08:27] <zakame> in Daet, about 9 hours away from Manila
[08:27] <zakame> my second home ;)
[08:28] <raphink> ok :)
[08:30] <raphink> pfiew
[08:30] <raphink> LiVEs package is having me write whole novels of comments ;)
[08:30] <zakame> whoa
[08:30] <raphink> ;)
[08:31] <raphink> at least this guy will learn a lot about packaging with this package ;)
[08:32] <zakame> w00t :)
[08:33] <raphink> zakame: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1561 when I say lots, I mean it ;)
[08:36] <minghua> raphink: are you sure debian/control has 80 char/line limit?
[08:36] <raphink> yep,the description field has
[08:36] <raphink> not the dependencies though
[08:36] <raphink> the dependencies adapt to the width of the screen
[08:36] <raphink> but the long description doesn't
[08:36] <minghua> ah, description field, that makes sense
[08:37] <raphink> and the rule for _all_ files is that it can be seen on a 80-lines-wide console
[08:37] <raphink> that theorically include changelog, too
[08:37] <raphink> the logs should be readable in a 80-lines-wide console too
[08:37] <raphink> which is pretty logical
[08:38] <raphink> you don't want to have to guess half of the changelogs just because you logged in a tty, right?
[08:38] <minghua> My vim debchangelog set the text width to 78 chars
[08:38] <raphink> nice :)
[08:38] <raphink> I do it manually
[08:40] <zakame> there is a move to get the {,Build-}Depends{,-Indep} and similar fields to have that limit as well, for readability
[08:42] <raphink> how do you mean zakame ?
[08:44] <zakame> raphink: instead of having all those dependencies in one line, the proposal allows for putting dependencies in multiple lines
[08:44] <raphink> ok
[08:44] <raphink> can be nice
[08:45] <zakame> yeah, but it's not getting any ground in debian-policy atm
[08:45] <raphink> mhm
[08:46] <raphink> hmm
[08:46] <raphink> I uploaded a package about an hour ago and had no feedback yet :s
[08:46] <raphink> hope it worked
[08:47] <raphink> ogra__: are you there?
[08:50] <zakame> raphink: question on copyright: if I debianize/ubuntize some free software that isn't GPL, can I release my changes under GPL, or should I follow with what upstream uses?
[08:50] <raphink> hmm
[08:51] <janm> zakame: what's the license upstream uses>
[08:51] <raphink> it depends on the license I guess
[08:51] <raphink> but if the license is not GPL-compatible, you won't get the package in universe anyway
[08:51] <zakame> janm: libmemcache, for example, uses BSD
[08:51] <raphink> BSD is a lesser license iirc
[08:51] <zakame> raphink: true
[08:51] <raphink> it allows almost everything
[08:52] <raphink> including changing the licence of derived products IIRC
[08:52] <raphink> check it though
[08:52] <raphink> zakame: and let me know if you get the info, I'm interested in it ;)
[08:53] <zakame> raphink: sure :)
[08:53] <zakame> I'll ask in #d-devel :)
[08:53] <raphink> ok :)
[08:54] <raphink> #d-mentors could be a good idea, too
[08:58] <minghua> zakame: you can release your change as GPL, but in my opinion it's polite to use the upstream's license
[08:58] <minghua> as long as the upstream license is compatible with GPL, I don't see anything forbidding anyone to release his/her patch under GPL
[09:01] <raphink> hi slomo
[09:01] <slomo> hi raphink
[09:02] <zakame> heya slomo :)
[09:03] <zakame> indeed minghua :)
[10:19] <raphink> hi dholbach
[10:20] <dholbach> good morning
[10:22] <raphink> dholbach: I uploaded a package this morning and got no news
[10:22] <raphink> do you know how I can be sure it was uploaded
[10:22] <raphink> ?
[10:22] <ajmitch> raphink: using what email address in the changelog?
[10:22] <raphink> hmm
[10:22] <raphink> I didn't change the changelog
[10:22] <raphink> but I ran debuild -S -k with my ID
[10:22] <raphink> so that I signed the files myself
[10:23] <raphink> and my key is up now
[10:23] <ajmitch> ok, but the address in the changelog is what is used for katie to send mail to
[10:23] <raphink> oooh ok
[10:23] <raphink> :)
[10:23] <ajmitch> and if it's not whitelisted, they won't get mail
[10:23] <raphink> yep
[10:23] <raphink> so it was only sent to tonio and he's not whitelisted
[10:24] <raphink> so no matter what, I won't get katie's news about it ;)
[10:24] <ajmitch> so it was sent to noone
[10:24] <raphink> ok
[10:24] <ajmitch> it'll still show on dapper-changes when accepted
[10:24] <raphink> yes
[10:24] <raphink> :)
[10:24] <raphink> if accepted
[10:24] <ajmitch> if it's new, it'll have to be elmo-blessed first
[10:24] <raphink> yes
[10:24] <raphink> :)
[10:25] <raphink> this is my first update to universe, so I care about it :)
[10:25] <raphink> + it's an upload of one of my mentors in a way ;)
[10:26] <raphink> ajmitch: how did you tell me I had to do to be added to MOTU on LP again?
[10:26] <raphink> :s
[10:27] <ajmitch> you need to join the team
[10:27] <raphink> I can't
[10:27] <ajmitch> and an admin will see that & approve you for membership
[10:27] <ajmitch> why not?
[10:27] <raphink> MOTU is a restricted team. Only a team administrator can add new members.
[10:27] <raphink> it's not a moderate team, it's a restricted one
[10:27] <ajmitch> joy
[10:27] <ajmitch> I'll try & add you
[10:27] <raphink> thanks
[10:27] <ajmitch> what's your lp username?
[10:28] <raphink> raphink
[10:28] <raphink> ;)
[10:28] <raphink> hehe
[10:28] <ajmitch> it is great pain
[10:28] <raphink> oh it's pretty fast here
[10:28] <raphink> or is it your ISP that is a pain?
[10:29] <ajmitch> 10GB monthly quota
[10:29] <raphink> :s
[10:29] <raphink> ouch all kde apps fail to build in Dapper today
[10:29] <raphink> there's an issue with kdelibs4-dev
[10:30] <raphink> we need to fix that soon, that's making all buildd builds fail on kde apps, too :(
[10:30] <ajmitch> bug Riddell or \sh_away :)
[10:30] <raphink> yes
[10:30] <raphink> that's what I'm doing
[10:34] <Burgundavia> dholbach, do you need help with moderating -motu ?
[10:35] <dholbach> Burgundavia: I shouldn't think so. The moderation mails are pretty low traffic, but thanks for the offer.
[10:36] <Burgundavia> dholbach, if you need help, give me a shout
[10:36] <dholbach> Ok, thanks.
[10:37] <raphink> dholbach: oh I just sent a spam  to it, work for you ;)
[10:38] <dholbach> raphink: Yeah, I was afraid I didn't have anything to do today.
[10:38] <raphink> haha
[10:38] <raphink> :)
[10:39] <raphink> dholbach: are we supposed to keep documenting our work on the wiki when we are MOTUs ?
[10:39] <raphink> I mean just as much as before?
[10:40] <ajmitch> you can if you want
[10:40] <raphink> hehe ok
[10:40] <raphink> well it takes a lot of time
[10:40] <ajmitch> since it might be helpful if you apply for main upload rights some day in the future :)
[10:40] <raphink> I've stopped documenting my reviews two days ago
[10:41] <raphink> hmm ic
[10:41] <raphink> but then I leave my track on the servers though
[10:41] <raphink> and the contributions can be grepped from the db, no?
[10:42] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:42] <ajmitch> and we can have a record of any wiki changes, any uploads, bug reports & comments
[10:42] <raphink> haha
[10:42] <raphink> yes
[10:43] <raphink> and then we need to document the changes in this record aswell
[10:43] <raphink> :p
[10:53] <Yagisan> raphink: your reply missed the mailing list
[10:53] <raphink> Yagisan: my reply?
[10:54] <Yagisan> raphink: to my suggestions for motu apprentices
[10:54] <ajmitch> suggestions?
[10:54] <raphink> oh I thought I had CCed it
[10:54] <raphink> thanks Yagisan I will forward it
[10:55] <Yagisan> raphink: I'm subscribed so no need to CC me
[10:55] <raphink> sure Yagisan just to the ML
[10:55] <ajmitch> Yagisan: you want this run as formal irc sessions, or something on the wiki?
[10:56] <raphink> oops it was sent as forwarded text of course
[10:56] <raphink> was it sent this time Yagisan ?
[10:56] <raphink> dunno if you got it yet
[10:56] <Yagisan> ajmitch: probably as an irc session, with a writeup on the wiki when done, for those that miss the lesson
[10:57] <Yagisan> ajmitch: raphink: as I said, just a few suggestions
[10:57] <raphink> sure Yagisan
[10:57] <ajmitch> sounds good, if we can find the time :)
[10:58] <raphink> I think ajmitch's lecture was appreciated last time
[10:58] <raphink> exactly
[10:58] <raphink> if we can find the time in the master thing
[10:58] <Yagisan> raphink: ajmitch: I personally have found time spent on training is always well spent
[10:58] <raphink> apart from that it would surely be cool
[10:58] <raphink> yes Yagisan
[10:58] <ajmitch> Yagisan: yeah, we have to find the right balance between doing the work & trying to guide others to help out
[10:58] <raphink> as said in my answer, I'd be find lecturing on rewiewing if someone wants of it ;)
[10:59] <raphink> s/find/fine/
[10:59] <Yagisan> raphink: still don't see your message yet
[10:59] <raphink> Yagisan: ok
[10:59] <raphink> Yagisan: the list if moderated
[10:59] <raphink> hmm
[10:59] <raphink> or is it moderated only for non members?
[10:59] <raphink> :s
[11:00] <ajmitch> there are times when 2 MOTUs advocating still isn't enough, really :)
[11:00] <raphink> yes ajmitch
[11:00] <raphink> I pinged hub yesterday about his reviews
[11:00] <ajmitch> it's something I should do more of
[11:00] <raphink> and suggested him some readings :)
[11:00] <ajmitch> I have a tendency to be overly picky about some things & miss others :)
[11:01] <raphink> hehe
[11:01] <ajmitch> such as?
[11:01] <raphink> that's why it's great to require several MOTUs to advocate
[11:01] <raphink> ajmitch: the ReviewingTips on the wiki + the reject FAQ on ftp-master and Mathew Palmer's checklist for sponsors
[11:02] <raphink> ;)
[11:02] <raphink> I think that's a good start :)
[11:02] <raphink> lol
[11:02] <ajmitch> it's a basic start
[11:02] <ajmitch> but I've still found a number of things that aren't on checklists
[11:02] <raphink> yes, and good documentation
[11:02] <raphink> mhm
[11:03] <ajmitch> things that other motus have approved :)
[11:03] <raphink> I think lecturing and getting questions about this could help getting up questions onthe subject
[11:03] <raphink> gathering them
[11:03] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:03] <raphink> finding typical examples for documentation on REVU
[11:03] <raphink> and writing something rather complete and readable ;)
[11:03] <raphink> hopefully
[11:04] <Yagisan> raphink: just got your message to the list
[11:04] <raphink> ajmitch: I have been reviewing since two days ago, almost non-stop ;)
[11:04] <ajmitch> raphink: good
[11:04] <raphink> the list is getting smaller
[11:04] <raphink> :)
[11:04] <raphink> Yagisan: great :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> I see no reason why we can't hold everyone to the standards that debian expects
[11:05] <raphink> sure
[11:05] <raphink> well Debian expects these standards but they are often not met in debian itself ;)
[11:06] <raphink> which is not a reason good enough to not expect them ourselves
[11:06] <raphink> all the more that REVU gives us a great way to get sure we follow these standards
[11:06] <raphink> if reviewers get a good education in this field
[11:06] <ajmitch> hm
[11:07] <ajmitch> thunar should have been archived
[11:07] <raphink> ok
[11:07] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I don't understand you here - is that in regard to package quality ?
[11:07] <ajmitch> Yagisan: yes
[11:07] <dholbach> anyone who would like to fix multisync?
[11:07] <dholbach> make it rebuild with newest evolution-data-server again?
[11:07] <ajmitch> Yagisan: what other things would there be?
[11:08] <ajmitch> dholbach: 0.8.x?
[11:08] <dholbach> ajmitch: no, just the current
[11:08] <Yagisan> ajmitch: quality I agree with - I was concerned it was more on the dfsg standards
[11:08] <dholbach> so the rdepends of evolution-data-server are all installble again
[11:08] <ajmitch> Yagisan: we should hold to those as well, where possible
[11:09] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yay you (and seb). :-)
[11:09] <ajmitch> dholbach: right, 0.82 is current :)
[11:09] <ajmitch> hm
[11:09] <ajmitch> why does hub have g-p-m on revu?
[11:09] <raphink> because he's a MOTu
[11:09] <raphink> since tuesday
[11:09] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I like the where possible, as I believe I mentioned my concerns in my mail
[11:10] <raphink> got a MOTU at the same time as lucas and I
[11:10] <ajmitch> yes, but mvo has been handling g-p-m lately, I think
[11:10] <dholbach> Didn't ogra and mjg59?
[11:10] <dholbach> I think it was mvo just for libnotify stuff
[11:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: possibly
[11:10] <ajmitch> it's still universe, I see
[11:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: what's the multisync problem?
[11:11] <dholbach> a rebuild and it wasnt happy, when i removed automake-1.6 as a build-dep (we don't have it any more)
[11:11] <dholbach> it's surely not a 'huge problem'
[11:11] <dholbach> but I thought if you're all just sitting around... :-ppp
[11:12] <ajmitch> dholbach: of course, we all have *nothing* better to do
[11:12] <ajmitch> I'm attempting to fetch the source
[11:12] <ajmitch> this will be a painful experience
[11:13] <raphink> dholbach: yeah I think there are quite a bit of FTBFS around dur to automake1.6
[11:13] <raphink> we should list the packages that build-depends on it
[11:13] <raphink> since it's a major cause of FTBFS lately
[11:13] <Yagisan> ajmitch: you could mark in revu that a wishlist bug could be filed at debian for those
[11:14] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I will
[11:14] <raphink> s/dur/due/
[11:14] <dholbach> Cool.
[11:14] <ajmitch> I haven't seen the maintainer that I know of haunting these channels lately
[11:16] <raphink> is there a rdepends tool for build-depends ?
[11:17] <ajmitch> Kyral: sorry, archived spe
[11:18] <ajmitch> raphink: easy enough to do with grep-dctrl :)
[11:18] <raphink> let's see
[11:18] <ajmitch> grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends $1 | grep 'Package:' |sed s/Package://g | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep 'Package:' |sed s/Package://g | sort -u
[11:18] <ajmitch> that's what I had in a script :)
[11:19] <ajmitch> you probably don't need all that
[11:20] <raphink> well no that seems fine
[11:20] <raphink> :)
[11:20] <raphink> I'll try it thanks ajmitch :)
[11:22] <ajmitch> rebuilding this pbuilder base is taking an age
[11:22] <raphink> :s
[11:30] <ajmitch> argh
[11:30] <ajmitch> can't believe I managed to fill up all my ubuntu development work area
[11:30] <ajmitch> that's a 60GB LVM volume
[11:30] <raphink> wow
[11:31] <ajmitch> it has a few other things but most of it is ubuntu & debian work
[11:31] <raphink> mhm
[11:32] <raphink> calculating mine
[11:32] <ajmitch> it has some debian chroots there
[11:32] <Yagisan> ajmitch: only 60GB ?
[11:32] <raphink> oh, you count the chroots ;)
[11:32] <raphink> heh
[11:32] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I've got 55GB unallocated
[11:32] <raphink> I've got a dapper pbuilder, a dapper chroot and a sid chroot
[11:33] <raphink> that's about 20 GB already
[11:33] <raphink> ;)
[11:33] <ajmitch> raphink: yes, I've still got hoary, breezy, dapper, sid, & experimental
[11:33] <raphink> so heh
[11:33] <raphink> that's what takes place
[11:33] <ajmitch> I do all of my ubuntu work outside chroots
[11:33] <raphink> I don't count that as ubuntu && debian work really
[11:33] <ajmitch> and my debian stuff is only bind-mounted into the chroots
[11:33] <raphink> yes same here
[11:33] <raphink> well I bind-mount my /home in the chroots
[11:34] <ajmitch> so they don't take up a lot of space by themselves
[11:34] <raphink> and my debian suff is in ~/debs
[11:34] <raphink> ajmitch: ;)
[11:34] <ajmitch> and I have ~/debian/ubuntu :)
[11:34] <raphink> hmm
[11:34] <raphink> so far I put an ubuntu/ and a debian/ folders in each package folder
[11:34] <raphink> which is not very convenient
[11:34] <Yagisan> please, lets not have pissing contests over who has the most chroots and distros stuff
[11:34] <raphink> but I don't have packages in debian yet
[11:34] <ajmitch> Yagisan: it's not
[11:35] <raphink> Yagisan: :p
[11:35] <raphink> we're not, Yagisan
[11:35] <raphink> just sharing our organization stuff :)
[11:35] <raphink> oh nice :)
[11:35] <dholbach> You all get a golden star.
[11:35] <raphink> dholbach: lol
[11:35] <ajmitch> yay!
[11:35] <dholbach> Now go and fix stuff! :-p
[11:35] <ajmitch> dholbach: you get a gold medal then
[11:35] <dholbach> Yooohooo!
[11:35] <raphink> :)
[11:36] <dholbach> *happy*
[11:36] <ajmitch> ok, cleared up 3 GB, enough to fix multisync ;)
[11:37] <dholbach> ROCK ON
[11:37] <dholbach> That's the spirit :)
[11:37] <raphink> lol
[11:37] <raphink> :)
[11:37] <ajmitch> some people have far too much energy
[11:37] <raphink> hehe
[11:38] <raphink> hey well we better
[11:38] <Yagisan> who ???
[11:38] <raphink> since they say the entropy in universe is growing fast
[11:38] <dholbach> I'll have a dogwalk and then catch up with 243679246 bug mails and 2943769426 apt-get.org reviews.
[11:38] <raphink> and our task is to keep it in good order
[11:38] <Yagisan> go dholbach go ! you can do it !
[11:38] <dholbach> Sure. :-)
[11:38] <raphink> apt-get.org reviews ?
[11:39] <ajmitch> raphink: MASS CRACK IMPORT!
[11:39] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
[11:39] <raphink> great :)
[11:39] <dholbach> ajmitch: don't be so mean.
[11:39] <raphink> do you need volunteers ?
[11:39] <ajmitch> sorry :)
[11:39] <Yagisan> raphink: ajmitch: how we import my stuff ;)
[11:39] <ajmitch> raphink: YES!
[11:39] <ajmitch> Yagisan: it does get a *brief* review
[11:39] <dholbach> Yagisan: I'd prefer MOTUs to get it through REVU
[11:39] <raphink> i'll throw an eye on it
[11:39] <raphink> :)
[11:39] <raphink> that'll change me from reviewing for a while :)
[11:39] <dholbach> AptGetOrg has two purposes.
[11:40] <Yagisan> dholbach: sorry it was missing <humor> </humor> tags
[11:40] <dholbach> 1) Stop users from messing with /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:40] <dholbach> 2) Invite other developers into the MOTU world.
[11:40] <dholbach> Yagisan: ah, right.
[11:41] <ajmitch> Yagisan: don't worry, I sneak my packages in the other way, so no motu has to review them :)
[11:41] <dholbach> I'd prefer it, if we could REVU cleaned up.
[11:41] <raphink> dholbach: do I understand that apt-get.org was created for ubuntu?
[11:41] <dholbach> If it's all fine, you can still assist me with apt-get.org
[11:42] <dholbach> raphink: no, for Debian initially.
[11:42] <ajmitch> raphink: nope, it's originally debian crack
[11:42] <raphink> ok
[11:42] <raphink> that's what I thought
[11:42] <dholbach> But lots of users install random crack from there.
[11:42] <raphink> used to use it on Debian
[11:42] <raphink> yes
[11:42] <dholbach> And it's better, if we rebuild it on our servers and people get it through us.
[11:42] <raphink> dholbach: so cleaning REVU is #1 priority now?
[11:42] <ajmitch> raphink: yes, we have until feature freeze for new packages
[11:43] <dholbach> Apart from fixing bugs, yes.
[11:43] <raphink> ok
[11:43] <ajmitch> raphink: after that it's straight bug-fixing
[11:43] <raphink> yep
[11:43] <dholbach> So I'll have to review some 450 apt-get.org packages.
[11:43] <ajmitch> so we use this chance where we can
[11:43] <raphink> I think I'll focus on REVU then
[11:43] <raphink> I'll deal with bugs when it's time for bugs
[11:43] <dholbach> raphink: Thanks for that - I appreciate your efforts.
[11:43] <ajmitch> dholbach: do you want me to focus every waking hour on reviewing & educating packagers? ;)
[11:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: Whatever your like - but it sounds great to me.
[11:44] <raphink> :)
[11:44] <dholbach> If we have new people in here, we should always be quick to give them something we can upload for them after they did a few tweaks
[11:44] <ajmitch> Yagisan: certainly ;)
[11:44] <Yagisan> :-P
[11:44] <dholbach> Yagisan: I mail those guys, so they can object.
[11:44] <ajmitch> Yagisan: and I demand that my name be taken off my packages already in ubuntu :)
[11:45] <raphink> there are about 50 packages on REVU, each review takes from 10 to 40 minutes
[11:45] <Yagisan> ajmitch: and removed from changelogs, in case someone somewhere decides to email me :-P
[11:45] <ajmitch> I think I'll try & get pqm done & uploaded - shall I pass it via REVU, or via debian?
[11:45] <ajmitch> raphink: if not more
[11:45] <raphink> yes that's a minimum
[11:46] <raphink> so the minimum manpower time we need is about 10 hours imo
[11:46] <raphink> to review them only once
[11:46] <ajmitch> raphink: I also like to login to tiber & get a build done so that I can get proper reports on REVU
[11:46] <Yagisan> dholbach: so, is their script importing sarge repos now ?
[11:46] <raphink> but most of them need to be reviewed 3 times or so
[11:46] <ajmitch> I know
[11:46] <raphink> ajmitch: can I log to tiber, too?
[11:46] <ajmitch> raphink: not at the moment, I can probably arrange an account
[11:46] <raphink> ok :)
[11:47] <ajmitch> since I have root
[11:47] <ajmitch> you just need to be in the pbuilder group to run revu-build
[11:47] <ajmitch> eg:
[11:47] <ajmitch> cd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/gnomecatalog-0601191630/gnomecatalog-0.2.3/
[11:47] <ajmitch> well
[11:47] <ajmitch> cd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/gnomecatalog-0601191630/
[11:48] <ajmitch> revu-build gnomecatalog_0.2.3-ubuntu1.dsc
[11:48] <ajmitch> that sort of thing
[11:48] <ajmitch> raphink: I'll send you an email with username & password
[11:48] <dholbach> Yagisan: their script? importing? sarge?
[11:49] <ajmitch> raphink: since I don't know how to set it to your existing revu password :)
[11:49] <raphink> ok
[11:49] <raphink> sure
[11:50] <Yagisan> dholbach: the apt-get.org import script - I believe it skipped mine, as mine has sarge in it
[11:51] <dholbach> Yagisan: oh yes.
[11:51] <dholbach> Yagisan: I have a blacklist
[12:01] <ajmitch> siretart: ping
[12:02] <siretart> ajmitch: pong
[12:02] <siretart> :)
[12:19] <dholbach> raphink: Doesn't hurt to upload KDE stuff.
[12:19] <dholbach> raphink: They will be retried.
[12:19] <raphink> oh?
[12:19] <raphink> I thought you had to request another build
[12:19] <raphink> with a build1
[12:19] <raphink> or is it when a package has become FTBFS after being added ?
[12:20] <raphink> like the automake1.6 ones
[12:20] <dholbach> You ask the buildd admins to give back.
[12:20] <dholbach> infinity and lamont
[12:20] <raphink> dholbach: well then can I cancel an upload that hasn't been built yet?
[12:20] <dholbach> "cancel"?
[12:20] <raphink> I uploaded a 0.2beta1 version
[12:21] <raphink> hopefully it failed to build
[12:21] <raphink> should have been 0.1.99+0.2beta1 and I saw it after uploading only :s
[12:21] <dholbach> If it's in the archive and was ACCEPTED you will have to upload a version which is 'bigger'
[12:21] <ajmitch> once the source is in the archive, you cannot go back
[12:21] <ajmitch> 0.2beta can become 0.2final or 0.2release
[12:21] <ajmitch> or something similar
[12:22] <dholbach> I once was fast enough that elmo intercepted and removed it.
[12:22] <ajmitch> that must have been quick
[12:22] <raphink> lol
[12:22] <dholbach> But in general you have 4m30s minutes at best to scream and shout and elmo 30s to remove it.
[12:22] <raphink> well then I think he rejected it
[12:22] <raphink> I don't have Katie's output though
[12:23] <raphink> since it's not my package
[12:23] <dholbach> sudo apt-get update; apt-get source <package> will tell you what's in the archive. :-)
[12:23] <ajmitch> is it a new package?
[12:24] <raphink> yes
[12:24] <raphink> dholbach: well if it hasn't been announced on dapper-changes it's not in the archive, right?
[12:27] <dholbach> raphink: ask elmo.
[12:28] <raphink> ok
[12:28] <raphink> I will
[12:34] <Yagisan> re
[12:50] <Yagisan> wow, there is an ubuntu forum for one of my non-in-ubuntu packages
[12:50] <Yagisan> :)
[12:50] <rbelem> morning people
[12:51] <Yagisan> rbelem: morning
[12:51] <rbelem> hey Yagisan ;-)
[12:53] <Yagisan> rbelem: don't you need x264 for your packages ?
[12:54] <rbelem> Yagisan: yep, cinelerra mainly
[12:54] <ajmitch> night all
[12:54] <Yagisan> night ajmitch
[12:55] <rbelem> gnight ajmitch
[12:55] <raphink> night ajmitch
[12:55] <rbelem> hey raphink
[12:55] <raphink> hi rbelem
[12:55] <Yagisan> rbelem: x264 won't go in unless we convert it to shared libs. Need to check why it isn't shared libs with upstream, and to see if marillat has already converted it
[12:57] <rbelem> Yagisan: i didnt realized about that
[12:57] <teprrr> hmm, pbuilderhowto points me to use distribution breezy.. shouldn't it be dapper now?
[12:59] <teprrr> ah, yes.. :)
[12:59] <Yagisan> rbelem: yes - slomo pointed it out to me a few days ago
[01:07] <rbelem> Yagisan: another package that cinelerra and other package need is libraw1394
[01:07] <rbelem> Yagisan: but its main area
[01:09] <Yagisan> rbelem: ok - what is cinerella actually ?
[01:09] <rbelem> Yagisan: cinelerra is a powerfull video editor
[01:10] <rbelem> Yagisan: cvs.cinelerra.org
[01:11] <rbelem> Yagisan: the most complete opensource video editor
[01:14] <raphink> rbelem: there's more work to do on lives, I think you noticed ;)
[01:15] <raphink> teprrr: no
[01:15] <raphink> teprrr: build your pbuilder with breezy, then upgrade it
[01:15] <raphink> teprrr: it's safer
[01:16] <rbelem> raphink: yep
[01:16] <raphink> rbelem: i'm giving you a lot of work, but this package will be nice in the end :)
[01:17] <rbelem> thanks raphink for your review ;-)
[01:18] <raphink> open-source : the only working environment where people thank you for voluntarily reviewing your work and giving you 2 more hours of it
[01:18] <rbelem> raphink: i learning a lot with these fixes
[01:18] <raphink> rbelem: I'm thinking of making a lecture on package reviewing and lives might be a great example of small yet important points to check
[01:21] <rbelem> raphink: cool! where? is lecture something like a talk?
[01:21] <raphink> ajmitch gave a lecture a month ago or (or was it two months ?) on #ubuntu-motu-school
[01:21] <lucas> raphink: is there a wiki page that lists common points to check ?
[01:22] <raphink> since there was UVF coming and we didn't have much we didn't plan another one
[01:22] <raphink> lucas: there's ReviewingTips on the wiki
[01:22] <raphink> but mostly there's Debian references
[01:22] <raphink> http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html is the most ones
[01:22] <raphink> oops
[01:22] <raphink> s/most ones/main one/
[01:22] <raphink> then http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/sponsorship_checklist.html is a good reference
[01:22] <raphink> and finally reading revues on REVU helps a lot :)
[01:23] <raphink> well and I'd say it's a good thing for a reviewer to read documentation on policy
[01:23] <raphink> like debian/control writing documents and so on
[01:23] <raphink> and refer to policy when in doubt
[01:24] <Yagisan> raphink: please document this - seems useful ;)
[01:24] <raphink> Yagisan: you can do it :)
[01:24] <raphink> hehe
[01:24] <raphink> like add it as a reference to ReviewingTips :)
[01:25] <Yagisan> raphink: I *could* yes, but lack the time. I'll assist where possible, eg by checking your fabulous work
[01:25] <raphink> lol
[01:25] <raphink> and I don't lack time ;)
[01:26] <raphink> doens't take that long to paste two urls on a wiki page really
[01:26] <rbelem> raphink: pasted many urls in MOTUDocumentationDraft
[01:27] <raphink> :)
[01:28] <rbelem> it needs some love. maybe these days ill finish it
[01:29] <raphink> good :)
[01:57] <raphink> yeah :)
[02:01] <raphink> hmmf
[02:14] <pappan> hi everybody
[02:17] <teprrr> raptoid, oops. build with dapper already :/
[02:17] <teprrr> btw, do I have to take care of the dependencies of the dependencies?
[02:20] <teprrr> kdelibs4-dev: Depends: libarts1-dev (>= 1.5-rc1) but it is not going to be installed
[02:27] <rraphink> hmmpf ... not kicked out yet ... crossing fingers
[02:29] <teprrr> :)
[02:29] <teprrr> having problems? ;)
[02:29] <raphink> it seems
[02:29] <raphink> it's not funny
[02:29] <raphink> I just log
[02:29] <raphink> and then I get excess flood
[02:29] <raphink> and it closes the connection
[02:31] <teprrr> ouch
[02:32] <teprrr> hmm, should I use cdbs at all for packages?
[02:32] <crimsun> teprrr: you're not getting that under current dapper, are you? Both are installable on current i386.
[02:33] <crimsun> teprrr: that's your decision for your own packages.
[02:34] <teprrr> crimsun, seemed to work now.. don't know what was wrong in there.
[02:34] <teprrr> added cdbs version requirement similar to katapult, hope it's okay
[02:34] <raphink> hmmpf
[02:36] <raphink> I can't join 10 channels it seems !!
[02:36] <raphink> I get an excess flood
[02:36] <crimsun> it depends on the channels
[02:36] <crimsun> I'm in 19 on freenode
[02:36] <teprrr> or maybe it's your client which causes it by handling things unproperly
[02:37] <teprrr> hmm, how can I know if the dbuilder was successfully ended? should it display something?
[02:38] <crimsun> you mean pbuilder?
[02:39] <teprrr> yes
[02:39] <crimsun> if it's successful, the files are generated in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
[02:40] <crimsun> you can also have pbuilder redirect output to a log file; see --logfile
[02:40] <teprrr> yup, got the package :p
[02:42] <crimsun> it's usually pretty straightforward. If pbuilder fails, you get a nasty error.
[02:43] <teprrr> hmm, kboggle can use dictionaries for its words to check if they're right.. should I suggest or recommend ispell, aspell and hspell?
[02:44] <crimsun> that's up to you
[02:44] <crimsun> it would make sense to at least Suggest one or more as alternates
[02:46] <teprrr> now they're in Recommended
[02:46] <teprrr> Recommends: aspell, ispell, hspell
[02:46] <teprrr> just thinking which is better, recommends or suggests for those
[02:47] <crimsun> erm, is that the line verbatim?
[02:47] <crimsun> does it really make sense to recommend all three?
[02:48] <crimsun> for instance, aspell is an ispell replacement...
[02:48] <teprrr> ah, didn't know how I should put them there :)
[02:49] <crimsun> use alternates syntax: aspell | ispell | hspell
[02:50] <crimsun> I haven't looked closely at their package statuses, so I don't know offhand if one or more provides a virtual
[02:52] <teprrr> yup, changed. thanks.
[02:57] <teprrr> dput kboggle_0.4.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[02:57] <teprrr> so that's the right way to dput? :)
[02:58] <Nafallo> not if you aren't a MOTU and are using the default dput settings.
[02:59] <teprrr> Nafallo, I changed my dput.cf like REVU page said. default_host_main = revu and so on
[03:00] <Nafallo> ah, never looked at that page myself :-)
[03:00] <crimsun> it's always a good idea to specify the host explicitly
[03:02] <teprrr> but that should be correct, right? :)
[03:03] <zakame> heya all :D
[03:03] <teprrr> hello
[03:03] <zakame> what's up teprrr :)
[03:04] <teprrr> trying to upload my first package to REVU :P
[03:04] <Yagisan> G'day zakame, crimsun, Nafallo, teprrr and any lurkers not mentioned
[03:05] <zakame> ooh, kewl! :D
[03:05] <zakame> heya Yagisan , crimsun , Nafallo and the crew :D
[03:05] <teprrr> same to you Yagisan
[03:05] <teprrr> hmm
[03:05] <teprrr> Checksum doesn't match for /home/tpr/storage/kubuntu-packages/kboggle/kboggle_0.4.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
[03:07] <teprrr> okay, there we go now.. uploaded :)
[03:07] <Nafallo> hello to those who wants to be "hellod" :-)
[03:09] <crimsun> hi Yagisan, zakame :)
[03:09] <crimsun> & Nafallo
[03:09] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:09] <zakame> ZOMG
[03:10] <Yagisan> zakame: english thanks :)
[03:10] <zakame> haha
[03:10] <Nafallo> -8 Celsius :-/
[03:10] <zakame> Yagisan: I can only dream of doing that thru dial-up
[03:12] <teprrr> -27C ..
[03:12] <Yagisan> zakame: well - it's on my adsl line, and within the next few days approx 20 or so debian users are going to hit it and find they need to upgrade the lot
[03:12] <teprrr> was -31C or so yesterday
[03:12] <teprrr> it's getting hot in here :)
[03:12] <Yagisan> teprrr: Moscow ??
[03:13] <teprrr> Yagisan, rovaniemi, finland
[03:13] <teprrr> I think it's colder in moscow
[03:14] <Yagisan> Nafallo: I just received a uuencoded windows virus in my email - that's very funny
[03:15] <Yagisan> teprrr: I'd be scared to do a piss in that weather, probably freeze before it hits the ground
[03:15] <azeem> Yagisan: depends on how much alcohol you drank I guess ;)
[03:16] <teprrr> hmm, in which order REVU shows the uploaded packages?
[03:16] <teprrr> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1568 -- though now it's there :)
[03:17] <teprrr> hmm, what's this linda whine? shouldn't source have only po files, not mos..
[03:17] <Yagisan> azeem: hmm, that idea may have merit. how soon after pissing does it freeze.
[03:25] <Nafallo> Yagisan: hehe, atleast you didn't get infected ;-)
[03:26] <Yagisan> Nafallo: it's hard to get infected - wine needs to get better at running viruses
[03:27] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:30] <siretart> launchpad.net dead?
[03:31] <Mithrandir> siretart: admins already working on it
[03:31] <siretart> Mithrandir: great. I wanted to close a bug just before it died
[03:33] <Mithrandir> siretart: fixed now
[03:34] <siretart> :) - thank the admin!
[03:55] <zakame> heh, weird
[03:57] <Yagisan> yep
[04:03] <Kyral> Morning
[04:03] <Yagisan> night all
[04:04] <zakame> heya Kyral
[04:04] <zakame> gn8 Yagisan
[04:08] <Kyral> hmm
[04:08] <Kyral> what is debian/dirs used for?
[04:10] <azeem> dh_mkinstalldir will create those
[04:10] <zakame> to create additional dirs not made by `make install'
[04:10] <Kyral> okay...
[04:11] <Kyral> then why did raphink mention that it wasn't needed in GTKEdit/
[04:11] <azeem> what's in it?
[04:11] <azeem>  /usr/bin and /usr/sbin?
[04:11] <Kyral> no I killed sbin
[04:11] <Kyral> I should add /usr/share
[04:11] <azeem> nah
[04:12] <Kyral> so kill dirs?
[04:12] <azeem> those should be made by the upstream Makefile
[04:12] <zakame> yep
[04:12] <Kyral> dhinstall takes care of them?
[04:12] <azeem> make install should
[04:12] <Kyral> azeem this thing has no install rule ;P
[04:12] <azeem> then ok
[04:12] <Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gtkedit-0601171815/gtkedit-0.1/Makefile
[04:12] <azeem> Kyral: you could automakeify it
[04:12] <azeem> as an exercise
[04:12] <Kyral> I'm installing the files through dh_install
[04:12] <Kyral> azeem: Upstream is thinking about it'
[04:13] <azeem> that's fine, then you should leave the dirs
[04:13] <zakame> yeah, rebuild the autotools
[04:13] <azeem> Kyral: or just try without, and see whether it FTBFS
[04:13] <azeem> zakame: "it doesn't have a Makefile"
[04:13] <Kyral> its okay without
[04:13] <azeem> as in, nothing
[04:13] <Kyral> It doesn't need Autotools lol
[04:13] <Kyral> and since when do we put homepage entries in debian/control?
[04:14] <azeem> many do it
[04:14] <azeem> at the end of the long description
[04:14] <Kyral> oh...
[04:14] <Kyral> okay I'll modify and reupload it
[04:14] <zakame> Kyral: I do that, for one
[04:14] <Kyral> those are the only things that raphink had a problem
[04:15] <zakame> raphink, master REVU-er :)
[04:15] <xerxas> hi guys
[04:16] <nlindblad> hi
[04:16] <xerxas> slomo: do you plan to package banshee 0.10.4 ?
[04:16] <xerxas> is there a place to do package request ?
[04:16] <xerxas> within the launchpad ? or anywhere else ?
[04:19] <persia> xerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[04:25] <xerxas> persia: thanks
[04:26] <xerxas> persia: there's nothing within the launchpad ?
[04:26] <lfittl> xerxas: we are working on that ;)
[04:27] <xerxas> lfittl: cool
[04:28] <marcin`> hello MOTU
[04:28] <marcin`> I finally uploaded my first package to REVU and my gpg keys seems to be ok
[04:28] <marcin`> but I got few questions and hope that someone here could help me
[04:29] <marcin`> to remove mess in my gpg keys I just removed everything from my ~/.gnupg directory
[04:29] <marcin`> and I generated new key as normal user
[04:30] <marcin`> and this key was added automagically to my keyring in my user account
[04:30] <marcin`> but not into super user keyring
[04:30] <marcin`> so I had to import key as secret key on my root account
[04:30] <marcin`> now I can build and sign my packages
[04:32] <marcin`> unfortunately now dpkg-buildpackage keeps asking me for my passphrase to unlock key
[04:32] <Hieronymus> marcin`: what package?
[04:32] <marcin`> and I neet to input this twice every time I build package
[04:32] <marcin`> s/neet/need
[04:33] <Hieronymus> marcin`: you need to sign two things
[04:33] <marcin`> and that's just annoying
[04:33] <Hieronymus> change your config so that it remembers your password for x minutes
[04:33] <marcin`> Hieronymus: could you tell me where can I set this?
[04:34] <marcin`> another thing is that previously I also could build deb packages and never had to input passphrase
[04:35] <marcin`> (to be honest I don't remember if these packages were signed)
[04:35] <Hieronymus> marcin`: did you use -us -uc?
[04:35] <marcin`> anyway - currently when I build package I have to input passphrase twice and then again in debsign...
[04:36] <marcin`> Hieronymus: -us -uc with which command?
[04:36] <Hieronymus> marcin`: it's somewhere in the configuration. I'll fetch my keys, brb
[04:36] <marcin`> ok
[04:36] <azeem> marcin`: dpkg-buildpackage, probably
[04:38] <marcin`> right it's in dpkg-buildpackage manual
[04:38] <marcin`> -us -uc Do not sign the source package or the .changes file, respectively.
[04:39] <marcin`> hmm so, do I need to sign packages for REVU or not?
[04:39] <azeem> you can sign them later on with debsign
[04:39] <Hieronymus> marcin`: yes
[04:39] <azeem> debsign <foo>.changes
[04:40] <marcin`> hmmmm but it seems that pbuilder doesn't sign packages by default while dpkg-buildpackage signs
[04:41] <azeem> then pbuilder probably calls dpkg-buildpackage with -us -uc
[04:41] <marcin`> (I use dpkg-buildpackage to build packages for my current breezy and then pbuilder to generate dapper packages)
[04:41] <Hieronymus> marcin`: I think you can set use-agent in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf
[04:42] <Hieronymus> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto section Tips and Tricks
[04:43] <zakame> !seen sistpoty
[04:45] <marcin`> Hieronymus: ok, thank you very much
[04:50] <siretart> zakame: I've seen him yesterday
[04:51] <Kyral> has anyone actually claimed a bounty here?
[04:52] <marcin`> Hieronymus: hmm the only problem is that there is no gpg-agent package in breezy
[04:53] <zakame> siretart: well I just saw ChangingTheOrigTarball
[04:53] <zakame> I wanted to suggest a DBS-style repackaging of bzip2 tarballs
[04:53] <zakame> (which one can do with cdbs' tarball.mk)
[04:55] <Hieronymus> marcin`: gpa
[05:03] <siretart> zakame: I don't think this is a common packaging practice and not the widely used, no?
[05:10] <zakame> siretart: true... must be tiredness setting in :P
[05:10] <zakame> anyhow, gn8 all :D
[05:32] <slomo> xerxas: it's already packaged and in universe ;)
[05:33] <siretart> hi slomo
[05:33] <siretart> slomo: did siggi respond to you?
[05:33] <Yagisan> dholbach: just browsing https://wiki.edubuntu.org/AptGetOrg and noticed something interesting
[05:34] <dholbach> fire away
[05:34] <Yagisan> dholbach: you a) actually did pick up my ubuntu repo, and b) more importantly for me it all FTBFS
[05:34] <Yagisan> dholbach: the fact that all of it FTBFS concerns me
[05:34] <dholbach> Nice :-)
[05:34] <slomo> siretart: nope :(
[05:34] <dholbach> Which one is it?
[05:34] <Yagisan> dholbach: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/ubuntucurrentmainrestricteduniversemultiverse
[05:35] <Yagisan> dholbach: I know that built in breezy
[05:35] <dholbach> Yagisan: I will have a look what goes wrong and tell you.
[05:35] <Yagisan> dholbach: do you have the logs ? I'd like to fix whatever is broken
[05:35] <siretart> slomo: perhaps I was too rude in my mail :(
[05:35] <dholbach> Yagisan: no, the script doesn't keep them
[05:36] <slomo> siretart: hm, imho not... let's wait, maybe he responds this weekend :)
[05:36] <Yagisan> dholbach: and I think I have the distinction of being in the blacklist no files from deng-jdoom-addons are there
[05:36] <dholbach> Yes.
[05:36] <dholbach> mvo added it to the black list
[05:36] <dholbach> Dunno what went wrong.
[05:36] <dholbach> We had some builds which *never* ended.
[05:37] <Yagisan> dholbach: why ? (it is a huge file though, and I have a slow connection)
[05:37] <dholbach> Yeah, might be that this was the case.
[05:38] <Yagisan> dholbach: almost 400MB .orig for it
[05:38] <dholbach> Might have been a reason, yes.
[05:40] <Yagisan> dholbach: thanks for double checking why they FTBFS.
[05:55] <persia> Hieronymus: Just FYI, all the "Missing .desktop file" bugs use autogenerated .desktop files.  I'd welcome suggestions to the script at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
[05:58] <Hieronymus> persia: oh, okay
[06:18] <\sh> moins
[06:19] <Se7h> hi
[06:19] <\sh> the only way is up...freelancing for 2 weeks...I had a good day :)
[06:23] <\sh> siretart: ping
[06:23] <xerxas> hi
[06:23] <xerxas> slomo, do you plan on packaging latest banshee ?
[06:23] <tseng> xerxas: erm
[06:23] <slomo> xerxas: it's already packaged and in debian and ubuntu
[06:28] <Gloubiboulga> evening
[06:33] <\sh> evening lamont__
[06:34] <lamont__> \sh: morning
[06:35] <\sh> lamont__: dunno if I should ask you or kinnison, but do you know, if the buildd chroots for the soyuz buildd engines are always clean? means, are they always be newly created?
[06:36] <lamont__> \sh: technically, that's a Kinnison question, however: soyuz untar's a chroot, dist-upgrades it and then does the build
[06:37] <lamont__> then nukes the chroot, and goes on to the next package
[06:38] <\sh> nukes means, it will be thrown away, and the system is untaring a new chroot and so on?
[06:38] <\sh> but I will ask kinnison :)
[06:39] <lamont__> yes
[06:39] <lamont__> that is, that's my understanding of the process
[06:39] <lamont__> alias nuke="rm -rf"
[06:40] <lamont__> "because once you have tac-nukes, everything begins to look like a small city"
[06:45] <\sh> hehe :)
[06:45] <\sh> ok..thx for the info so far :)
[06:45] <\sh> looks like I have to learn java
[06:50] <siretart> \sh: pong
[06:51] <\sh> siretart: 5mins..will query u
[06:51] <LaserJock> morning everybody!
[06:52] <siretart> \sh: regarding your clean buildd chroots: sbuild (the one in the sbuild package, not from wanna-build) has some preliminary support for sbuild, which supports chroots on lvm snapshots. once sbuild supports that, then you can guarantee clean chroots :)
[06:55] <azeem> siretart: you mean schroot somewhere in there, I assume
[06:56] <azeem> s/support for sbuild/support for schroot/
[06:56] <siretart> azeem: excatly, my bad
[06:56] <siretart> schroot really rocks. I love it
[07:01] <LaserJock> siretart: what's the difference between dchroot and schroot?
[07:02] <siretart> LaserJock: I think azeem or rleigh can answer this question better than I could. schroot is a reimplementation of dchroot with security in mind. It adds cool features like a hook dir where script which bind-mounts /home and stuff
[07:07] <LaserJock> siretart: ok, so is it usable and everything. I accidently found it on packages.u.c yesterday when I was looking for dchroot (s and d being so close together on the keyboard ;-) )
[07:09] <azeem> I have to admit I never tried schroot
[07:09] <siretart> LaserJock: I use schroot on my laptop. the lvm snapshot feature is really neat: I can satisfy build dependencies on a real clean chroot and can play as much as I want, without the need from pbuilder. Great stuff for playing and experimenting :)
[07:09] <siretart> drawback: you need lvm
[07:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know a thing about lvm
[07:12] <stratus> LaserJock, read the lvm howto.
[07:14] <LaserJock> oh, that's cool
[07:15] <stratus> LaserJock, there's a little overhead (of course) but it provides useful flexibility
[07:15] <LaserJock> is it safe?
[07:16] <stratus> LaserJock, i use it since 2002 (including some servers) without notice any bug on the code.
[07:16] <stratus> LaserJock, i've some really weird stuff with both software raid and lvm, nothing new but no fs corruptions (2.4 kernels).
[07:18] <stratus> LaserJock, i even resize xfs logical volumes online without problems. I've backups but they weren't necessary yet. :)
[07:19] <LaserJock> stratus: hmm, but you need to start from scratch to create them?
[07:20] <stratus> LaserJock, not if you've spare partitions and/or harddisks on a machine.
[07:21] <LaserJock> stratus: interesting, maybe it's time rearranging ;-)
[07:21] <LaserJock> *for some rearranging
[07:21] <stratus> LaserJock, you don't need to put your root (/) on top of lvm. I usually use let / sit over software raid on servers and do the lvm thing over raid with key directories (it depends for each server family)
[07:23] <stratus> LaserJock, my file server at home contains two harddisks one with 13gb and other with 120gb. I've the / over software raid (mirror) on the two disks and other array (stripe, not mirror) with lvm on top.
[07:26] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm thinking of reinstalling my system soon, I think I will try LVM out then.
[07:27] <stratus> LaserJock, cool.
[07:33] <LaserJock> hmm, somehow I need to make a list of apps I need to install once I get Ubuntu back on
[07:33] <xerxas> tseng,  ?
[07:35] <azeem> LaserJock: dpkg --get-selections
[07:35] <stratus> LaserJock, hacks on ubuntu-meta and do your own metapackage.
[07:36] <LaserJock> azeem: oh, that helps. thanks
[07:36] <LaserJock> stratus: I've been thinking about doing that
[07:36] <azeem> LaserJock: and dpkg --set-selections, later on
[07:36] <stratus> LaserJock, i did.
[07:36] <jamessan> is there something like that with aptitude that will maintain your "autoinstall" flags?
[07:37] <LaserJock> azeem: oh my gosh, you are my hero!
[07:56] <dholbach> Have a nice evening and weekend.
[07:56] <\sh> dholbach: you spamed the planet :)
[07:57] <\sh> and treenaks too
[07:57] <dholbach> Nafallo too
[07:57] <\sh> no not treenaks, nafallo :)
[07:57] <dholbach> and it wasn't me
[07:57] <dholbach> It was Planet.
[07:57] <\sh> dholbach: you see, planet is heavily broken...but no one believes me
[07:57] <dholbach> I doubt that LiveJournal sent updates?
[07:57] <dholbach> Oh well.
[07:57] <dholbach> Anyway
[07:57] <dholbach> See you guys.
[07:57] <\sh> it's planet :) have a nice weekend :)
[07:59] <jamessan> LJ change their URLs so planet thinks everything is new
[07:59] <\sh> argls
[07:59] <\sh> don't use LJ
[08:00] <hub> gah, hugin rejected for license issues
[08:00] <hub> VIGRA license
[08:00] <hub> I'll have to study that more closely
[08:00] <hub> jamessan: LJ suck
[08:01] <hub> \sh: LJ is broken, not planet
[08:01] <\sh> hub: planet is broken too
[08:01] <hub> \sh: LJ decide to change the URL of the articles
[08:01] <jamessan> hub: I'm not disputing that :)
[08:01] <hub> \sh: <id> changed
[08:02] <\sh> hub: well...a check of similarity could be done by planet...title and content check..if planet would use a real db backend
[08:02] <hub> \sh: planet check the one he has seen
[08:02] <lucas> hey all
[08:02] <Treenaks> \sh: I upgraded my blog without spamming planet ;)
[08:03] <\sh> Treenaks: mea culpa...I corrected myself :)
[08:04] <Treenaks> \sh: np :)
[08:06] <\sh> so from next week on I have home office, I'll get 300 bucks per day after taxes and first of all limited to 2 weeks...after those 2 weeks it will be decided, if I can have a employee contract, or at least freelancer contract for 6 months first...this helps a lot somehow
[08:06] <lucas> working for whom ?
[08:07] <hub> that's cool
[08:08] <stratus> lucas, are  yout at lp, right? maybe you're interestd in subscribe to ajmitch specification about MOTUs and Debian.
[08:08] <stratus> s/interestd/interested/
[08:09] <lucas> the not-updated one ?
[08:09] <stratus> i dunno
[08:09] <lucas> I am not aware of a recent spec by ajmitch on the topic
[08:09] <lucas> so it must be the one written in october/november, we was never finished
[08:10] <lucas> s/we/which/
[08:10] <stratus> checking...
[08:11] <stratus> lucas, you're right. the spec itself needs to be finished
[08:12] <stratus> ajmitch, wake up.
[08:57] <\sh> going to bed...
[09:15] <ajmitch> morning
[09:15] <ajmitch> stratus: I am awake
[09:16] <stratus> ajmitch, morning. What's up with that old ubuntu x debian spec that you started ?
[09:16] <ajmitch> stratus: it was intended as a discussion item at UBZ
[09:17] <ajmitch> but didn't get onto the list of topics to talk about
[09:17] <ajmitch> it could probably be updated & filled in with some info
[09:18] <stratus> ajmitch, yes i think we should update the spec.
[09:18] <ajmitch> since I think we've agreed on a number of things in MOTU meetings that haven't been written down properly
[09:18] <stratus> sounds good, can you do that? i'm a newcomer so i haven't been in any MOTU meeting yet
[09:19] <ajmitch> but I'm sure you've got some good ideas from the debian side :)
[09:20] <Kyral> raphink
[09:21] <stratus> ajmitch, yes i've.
[09:22] <raphink> someone _really_ has to explain me
[09:22] <Kyral> explain what?
[09:22] <jpatrick> pardon?
[09:22] <raphink> why since I got my cloak on here I can't join 10 channels without being thrown away for excess flood
[09:22] <raphink> by the server
[09:22] <raphink> this is horrible
[09:22] <raphink> I'm getting crazy
[09:22] <stratus> you should ask freenode staff
[09:22] <Kyral> which server?
[09:22] <raphink> I used to be on 20 channels all the time
[09:22] <raphink> then I got my cloack today
[09:23] <raphink> set it as suitable, with a second nick linked to my main one and all
[09:23] <raphink> and now when I join with all my channels
[09:23] <raphink> after 1 minute I get a "[error]  excess flood" message and get thrown out
[09:23] <raphink> I spammed all my chans with this this afternoon
[09:24] <raphink> got banned from #debian-devel because of this
[09:24] <raphink> that gets me ... hmm ... nervous
[09:24] <ajmitch> raphink: it was hugely irritating for those of us in there :)
[09:24] <raphink> I guess so ajmitch I guess so
[09:24] <raphink> but imagine how irritating it is to me
[09:24] <ajmitch> it was temporary
[09:24] <jamessan> ajmitch: yeah, but that's no reason to ban. /ignore raphink JOINS PARTS QUITS
[09:24] <raphink> to not be able to log to IRC
[09:25] <ajmitch> jamessan: then everyone has to do that just because of 1 user
[09:25] <raphink> ajmitch: I'm still banned on #debian-devel
[09:25] <raphink> and I still have this pb
[09:25] <raphink> right now I'm only on #ubuntu-motu
[09:25] <raphink> cause if I log on more channels I might be thrown out
[09:25] <raphink> and then I get a 3 minutes lag
[09:25] <ajmitch> what broken irc client?
[09:25] <raphink> ajmitch: no
[09:25] <raphink> it began to do that ever since I got my cloack today
[09:26] <raphink> konversation works great
[09:26] <raphink> at least it has always worked great
[09:26] <raphink> wasn't updated lately
[09:26] <ajmitch> time for a change :)
[09:26] <jamessan> raphink: your irc client might not gracefully handle having your hostmask changed on it
[09:26] <raphink> and I see no reason why it wouldn't work great
[09:26] <raphink> apart from getting a new vhost
[09:26] <raphink> hmm
[09:26] <jamessan> although I'd be surprised if that was the case
[09:26] <raphink> I already had a vhost
[09:26] <raphink> that I had set myself
[09:26] <aa_> well, none of my business, but really join and part are part of the IRC protocol
[09:27] <raphink> aa_: so?
[09:27] <Kyral> Malone 29053
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29053: "beagle binary is uninstallable" Fix req. for: beagle (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Confirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29053
[09:27] <ajmitch> Kyral: and?
[09:27] <aa_> so whoever is whining (yes I know he is the big boss) should suck it in
[09:27] <ajmitch> aa_: huh?
[09:27] <jamessan> aa_: PRIVMSG is part of the protocol too and people get banned for using that all the time
[09:27] <Kyral> just making sure it took ;P Had to link it to a Debian bug
[09:27] <tseng> Kyral: sorry to hear that, im accepting patches for FTBFS
[09:28] <Kyral> huh?
[09:28] <tseng> why is it linked to a debian bug
[09:28] <aa_> jamessan: but that is a politeness issue. And I disagree with that too.
[09:28] <Kyral> because the Debian bug is the exact same thing
[09:28] <ajmitch> aa_: when someone joins & parts several times a minute, it is very irritating
[09:28] <Kyral> 348123
[09:28] <aa_> ajmitch: you should ignore it, really.
[09:28] <raphink> ok were shall I reach freenode staff ?
[09:28] <Kyral> Debian #348123
[09:28] <Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: need more than 1 value to unpack
[09:28] <aa_> anyway, how did I get involved in this? Have a nice evening all.
[09:29] <ajmitch> aa_: and you expect 400 people in a channel to ignore it, just because of 1 user?
[09:29] <tseng> Kyral: gmime actually breaks the build
[09:29] <Kyral> oh
[09:29] <aa_> ajmitch: oh yikes, no, not 400 people. I only heard one person whining. :) Anyway, I am wrng, blah blah blah.
[09:29] <tseng> cvs builds because thye moved off of gmime
[09:29] <Kyral> sorry...I should have checked
[09:34] <Kyral> hmm
[09:35] <Kyral> if they already give the Debian BTS number in the Report should i just link it there?
[09:38] <Kyral> wb
[09:54] <Hieronymus> Why is there a pre-release of make in dapper?
[09:54] <Kyral> Because Dapper is Devel?
[09:54] <Kyral> I dunno actually
[09:56] <raphink> hmm
[09:57] <raphink> not thrown yet
[09:57] <raphink> let's wait a see
[09:57] <Kyral> lol
[09:58] <crimsun> Hieronymus: synced from Sid
[10:36] <thierry_> does anyone have time to review my package? I just reuploaded to fix some stuff http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1571
[10:40] <thierry_> siretart : does you have the time to check my package?
[10:40] <thierry_> do*
[10:41] <phanatic> hi people
[10:41] <thierry_> hi
[10:50] <Hieronymus> Can I remove requires in upstreams Makefile?
[10:53] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus you need to patch them
[10:53] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : can you review my package?
[10:53] <JohnnyMast> you can do what you want besides changing the source .. but if you need to patch stuff
[10:54] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ whats that ?
[10:54] <thierry_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1571
[10:54] <thierry_> just reuploaded and I want to know if it seems ok
[10:54] <JohnnyMast> ok but i cant advocate i cant just look at it
[10:56] <JohnnyMast> im impressed thierry_
[10:56] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: offcourse
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> but files installed into /usr/bin /usr/sbin need man pages
[10:57] <Hieronymus> thierry_: why do you have "Initial packaging from scratch"?
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> it would be a good thing to add them via docbook thierry_ from there it should be find
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus that doesnt mether
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> its just 2 word extra
[10:58] <JohnnyMast> from scratch that is
[10:58] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : how to I add them via docbook? any howto to propose me?
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> check out ttb on revu (my old package)
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> hold on
[10:59] <JohnnyMast> example of a dockbook man page http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512220710/ttb-0.9.4/debian/ttb.1.docbook
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> build/ttb::
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> 	docbook2x-man debian/ttb.1.docbook
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> ^^ in rules file
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> and add dockbook2x to depends
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> thats all
[11:00] <JohnnyMast> and dont forget to check every build with pbuilder
[11:01] <JohnnyMast> a double check doesnt do harm
[11:01] <Hieronymus> thierry_: "from scratch" confuses me. Was this package in Ubuntu before? If so, you should save the Changelog
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> yes thats true
[11:02] <Hieronymus> if not, why not use what everbody uses - "Initial Release."
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> Kyral hey m8
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> long time noo see
[11:02] <Kyral> hey
[11:02] <Kyral> I'e been here
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> same here
[11:02] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : ajmitch used it in a presentation at motu-school, I tough this was ok
[11:02] <JohnnyMast> but i was on vacaction :)
[11:03] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ well he should mention that /usr/bin and /usr/sbin binarys need man pages
[11:04] <JohnnyMast> but he was talking more about the packing then the strickt rules we have
[11:04] <thierry_> k
[11:04] <JohnnyMast> ubuntu is more strickt then debian on packages
[11:04] <tseng> JohnnyMast: eh?
[11:04] <Hieronymus> it's not
[11:04] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus explain why not ?
[11:05] <JohnnyMast> i dont know what you have heared then ??
[11:05] <thierry_>     </author>
[11:05] <thierry_>     <copyright>
[11:05] <thierry_>       <year>2005</year>
[11:05] <thierry_>       <holder>Johnny Mast</holder> is it the librairy author or me?
[11:05] <JohnnyMast> we follow the rules more strickt
[11:06] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ depends on the agreement with upstream
[11:06] <JohnnyMast> if they told you .. your maintainer meaning you fix the box we fix on ubuntu then your the holder/maintainer
[11:07] <JohnnyMast> like im maintainer for ttb this means im alone are allowed to fix box for this packege in ubuntu
[11:07] <crimsun> that's not true
[11:07] <JohnnyMast> if the name + email is in there the developer can fix bugs or any hopefull
[11:08] <crimsun> that means you're the primary contact, and you are assumed to have primary maintenance over it, but we maintain universe and multiverse packages as a team
[11:08] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I think Ubuntu is less strict on packages
[11:08] <Hieronymus> thierry_: isn't it a library? Libraries don't need manpages AFAIK
[11:08] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus hmm nope
[11:08] <crimsun> there is no sense of ownership over Ubuntu packages.
[11:09] <JohnnyMast> crimsun yes well thats what i ment .. sorry thierry_ to confuse you there
[11:09] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : so I do need a manpage right?
[11:09] <JohnnyMast> yes you do
[11:09] <thierry_> k
[11:09] <JohnnyMast> ubuntu follows the rules of litnian
[11:10] <JohnnyMast> ubuntu says 0 litnian errors / warnings are allowed
[11:10] <Hieronymus> incorrect
[11:10] <JohnnyMast> it should be clean
[11:10] <Hieronymus> Ubuntu and Debian follow the Debian policy
[11:10] <tseng> you are totally making stuff up
[11:10] <Hieronymus> lintian checks for Debian policy errors
[11:10] <Hieronymus> Warnings are allowed, errors are not, in both Debian and Ubuntu
[11:10] <JohnnyMast> wicjh ubuntu follows
[11:11] <JohnnyMast> nope
[11:11] <JohnnyMast> you wont get votes with man page warnings im sory to report that but its true
[11:11] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: not everything needs a manpage
[11:11] <JohnnyMast> thierry_: it would be a good thing to read the debian new maintainer manual
[11:12] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus it should
[11:12] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: no
[11:12] <JohnnyMast> i dont want to release a package that  doestn follow the rules
[11:12] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus i hope you have read the debian new maintainer manual
[11:13] <JohnnyMast> you should have
[11:13] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I have
[11:13] <JohnnyMast> it has a list of does and donts
[11:13] <JohnnyMast> then you know one could not be added without manuals
[11:13] <JohnnyMast> in /usr/bin /usr/sbin
[11:13] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: only programs and config files need manpages
[11:14] <JohnnyMast> or anything above /usr ex /usr/local ...
[11:14] <JohnnyMast> yep
[11:14] <JohnnyMast> and that is just what we are talking about now aint we
[11:15] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : ok, anything else wrong with my package?
[11:15] <JohnnyMast> libfxruby looks like software to me
[11:15] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : it's only bindings
[11:15] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ no my compliments it looks okey even the copyright file wich is a common made mistake but it looks okey :)
[11:16] <thierry_> :D great, now are you a MOTU?
[11:17] <JohnnyMast> now im sorry
[11:17] <JohnnyMast> but i can see if i see one on my contact list being online
[11:17] <thierry_> JohnyMast, ok thanks anyway for the reviewing...
[11:17] <allee> someone have sometime to have a look at codeine (KDE vidio player)? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1544
[11:17] <JohnnyMast> (just checking but i dont thing so)
[11:18] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ nope contact me tomorrow i will be glad to forward ur package to some motu
[11:18] <JohnnyMast> slomo are you here ?
[11:18] <JohnnyMast> slomo thierry_ here made a great package its urs to vote
[11:19] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ dont wurry i will get you some one tomorrow pm me and ule be fine
[11:20] <JohnnyMast> but it seems that Hieronymus and tseng disagree somewhere so im gonna read somethings again
[11:20] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : k thanks :)
[11:20] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: Ubuntu is not more strict about packages; look at quake3 which had 2 advocates
[11:20] <JohnnyMast> no problem
[11:20] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus its experiance
[11:20] <JohnnyMast> btw debian sucks ass
[11:21] <tseng> erm
[11:21] <crimsun> let's not disparage our parent distro.
[11:21] <tseng> crimsun++
[11:21] <JohnnyMast> dont wurry i still use debian :)
[11:21] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : do I have something to add in the copyright file for my man page?
[11:21] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: it doesn't
[11:21] <JohnnyMast> hmm nope
[11:22] <Hieronymus> thierry_: you might want to indent the actual license information
[11:22] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus yes the discriminate
[11:22] <Hieronymus> (with two spaces)
[11:22] <JohnnyMast> that all the *** diff there iss
[11:22] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus dont tell me that aint true because it is
[11:22] <phanatic> what's the best way to remove config.{sub,guess} stuff from a diff?
[11:23] <JohnnyMast> because if im disabled but the best developer around  could never be a debian member
[11:23] <thierry_> Hieronymus : like  http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/codeine-0601182140/codeine-1.0/debian/copyright ?
[11:23] <JohnnyMast> sooooo there for they suck
[11:23] <Hieronymus> thierry_: yes, that indentation
[11:24] <JohnnyMast> i have to agree i like it
[11:24] <JohnnyMast> Hieronymus debiaan has a thing with invalid ppl
[11:24] <JohnnyMast> they could not get there key signed even if there name was bill gates
[11:24] <JohnnyMast> i hate there new policy
[11:24] <Hieronymus> why do you hate Debian?
[11:25] <JohnnyMast> because of that yes
[11:25] <tseng> what are "invalid people"
[11:25] <tseng> i have had several debian developers sign my key
[11:25] <JohnnyMast> not the os but the way they are thinking
[11:25] <JohnnyMast> ivalid ppl == disabled ppl
[11:25] <JohnnyMast> developers in a wheel chair
[11:26] <JohnnyMast> god bless ubuntu for being open
[11:26] <crimsun> well, differences of opinion aside, we owe a lot to Debian, and we strive to maintain a good working relationship with the maintainers
[11:26] <tseng> sorry to hear that, but if you try you can understand why people dont sign keys if you cant have personal contact
[11:27] <JohnnyMast> tseng look
[11:27] <JohnnyMast> tseng trust dont come in a sign
[11:27] <JohnnyMast> trust comes in what some one does
[11:27] <JohnnyMast> thats lame for starters
[11:27] <tseng> see thats the problem
[11:27] <tseng> you cant trust what someone does if you cant trust who they are
[11:28] <Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: ever heard of the Web of Trust?
[11:28] <JohnnyMast> i trust some one on irc more then the fag who shows me me hers /his passport
[11:28] <tseng> without a web of trust validated by something like GPG there is no saying that JohnnyMast doing good one day is the same JohnnyMast doing bad the next
[11:28] <JohnnyMast> because for example Hieronymus here
[11:28] <JohnnyMast> i know hes a hard worker
[11:28] <JohnnyMast> i know what he does for ubuntu
[11:28] <JohnnyMast> i know how hes like
[11:29] <tseng> and when he leaves i can change my nick to Hieronymus
[11:29] <JohnnyMast> you dont get that from a passport like debian claims
[11:29] <JohnnyMast> no need because its registered
[11:30] <tseng> by a really weak password passed in clear text
[11:30] <JohnnyMast> plus i remember hosts
[11:30] <allee> JohnnyMast: signing does not say he is great/bad.  Just says I confirm that he is how he claims to be.  Not less, not more
[11:30] <JohnnyMast> its still bad
[11:30] <JohnnyMast> signing is just going in blind
[11:30] <allee> JohnnyMast: no.  That's what the web of trust is about
[11:30] <JohnnyMast> and thats a fact !!
[11:30] <JohnnyMast> my passpot doesnt say my nick
[11:30] <LaserJock> you still have to have a signed key for uploading in Ubuntu
[11:31] <JohnnyMast> look
[11:31] <JohnnyMast> i signed the code
[11:31] <JohnnyMast> i am my self
[11:31] <LaserJock> but how do we know that?
[11:31] <Hieronymus> LaserJock: Web of Trust
[11:31] <Hieronymus> signing keys
[11:31] <Hieronymus> but he doesn't want to :/
[11:31] <JohnnyMast> by checking my public key
[11:32] <JohnnyMast> the only thing you need is your email and your gpg key
[11:32] <JohnnyMast> no fake debian rasist polecy
[11:32] <LaserJock> but that only works if you know that that email and key belong to the right person
[11:32] <JohnnyMast> ow and you know that by seeing the pasport ??
[11:33] <tseng> there is more to it than that
[11:33] <JohnnyMast> no you dont
[11:33] <tseng> i see your passport, you gpg id, and your email
[11:33] <Mithrandir> hi tseng
[11:33] <tseng> i mail to that email your key
[11:33] <tseng> hi Mithrandir :)
[11:33] <JohnnyMast> neeh thats not how it should be
[11:33] <JohnnyMast> that not being a communty
[11:33] <JohnnyMast> thats checking trust
[11:33] <tseng> neeh well stop calling debian ass and racist please
[11:34] <JohnnyMast> a community is trusting
[11:34] <LaserJock> well, for uploading you need trust
[11:34] <tseng> I am going to have to ask this to close here.
[11:34] <tseng> thanks :)
[11:34] <JohnnyMast> tseng im sorry but thats just how i feel it .. i stop it from now on ...
[11:35] <tseng> JohnnyMast: using inflamatory language to get your point across usually just invites opposition instead of symapathy for your cause
[11:35] <tseng> JohnnyMast: (for better leverage in future debate :)
[11:36] <JohnnyMast> but this is why i love ubuntu ppl
[11:36] <tseng> Mithrandir: beagle is all kinds of broken :/
[11:36] <JohnnyMast> trust is in what you do
[11:36] <JohnnyMast> not in who you are
[11:36] <JohnnyMast> or what you are
[11:36] <Mithrandir> tseng: suckage.  why?
[11:36] <tseng> Mithrandir: hm, gmime update
[11:36] <tseng> cvs fixes the issue conveniently
[11:37] <Mithrandir> tseng: it's been broken in dapper for a while 'cause of some other -cil package update.
[11:37] <tseng> by dumping in a whole new bit of code xdg-sharp and changing all the calls
[11:37] <tseng> er, xdgmime
[11:40] <JohnnyMast> anyways
[11:41] <JohnnyMast> im off to bed i got a few merges to do in the morning wich i should have done ages ago
[11:41] <tseng> g'night
[11:41] <JohnnyMast> for that im sorry but i just came back from vacation
[11:41] <JohnnyMast> tseng gnight my friend :)
[11:42] <Mithrandir> tseng: so you'll have a fix in RSN, then?
[11:47] <tseng> Mithrandir: cvs also has Holmes, a whole new UI
[11:47] <tseng> joe said he would release 0.1.5 off of 0.1.4, not cvs
[11:48] <Mithrandir> we're in UVF, though
[11:48] <tseng> which may or may not work
[11:48] <tseng> 0.2.0 will have Holmes
[11:50] <tseng> Mithrandir: every way is pretty ugly :)
[11:50] <Mithrandir> tseng: 3 year support.  So, yes.
[11:50] <tseng> hm beagle is not in main
[11:50] <tseng> for dapper
[11:51] <Mithrandir> true, but still