[12:43] <lamont__> anyone complain if I fix lablgtk by syncing lablgl?  (which would have synced 2 weeks ago if I hadn't uploaded it in december...
[01:23] <crimsun> of course not
[01:24] <Kyral> cool
[01:24] <Kyral> its only in a VM Image anyway
[01:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: what are you going to try
[01:25] <Kyral> EVERYTHIGN!
[01:25] <Kyral> SuSE, Fedora, Debian, VLOS, the BSDs
[01:25] <Kyral> HURD
[01:25] <LaserJock> I see
[01:26] <Kyral> Heheh
[01:26] <Kyral> I want to know the strengths and weaknesses of every major distro
[01:27] <LaserJock> you haven't done that before?
[01:27] <Kyral> nope
[01:27] <Kyral> I mean I know Gentoo and Slack
[01:27] <Kyral> and of course Ubuntu
[01:28] <phanatic> you have a lot of time, man :)
[01:28] <LaserJock> I've never done Slack, but I did Red Hat, Fedora, Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, little bit of Debian, and Vector
[01:28] <Kyral> its more like I have a lot of diskspace ;p
[01:29] <ompaul> Kyral, how many distros do you think are major?
[01:29] <Kyral> I started on Slack
[01:29] <Kyral> ompaul: dunno
[01:29] <Kyral> maybe the Top20 on DW?
[01:29] <LaserJock> I'd go top 15 maybe
[01:29] <ompaul> Kyral, supposing one you like is not there maybe DSL ( now I don't know what number that is)
[01:29] <Kyral> DSL I know
[01:29] <Kyral> hehe
[01:30] <Kyral> When I saw GTKEdit for the first time, the first thing I thought was "Damn Small Linux!"
[01:30] <ompaul> Kyral, knowing a good bit about the main packaging systems would be better for you imho
[01:30] <Kyral> yah
[01:30] <Kyral> RPM, Portage, Slackpack
[01:31] <Kyral> I already know about Debpack :P
[01:32] <LaserJock> I like Portage quite a bit
[01:33] <Kyral> I used to be a Portage Junkie
[01:33] <Kyral> I heard VLOS is good
[01:33] <Kyral> Gentoo for people who don't wanna wait ;P
[01:33] <LaserJock> Portage is why I'm using Ubuntu ;-)
[01:33] <Kyral> lol
[01:33] <Kyral> I heard its written in Python
[01:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I think so
[01:34] <Kyral> I also find it amusing that there is a gentoo package ;P
[01:34] <LaserJock> the file manager?
[01:34] <Kyral> yah
[01:36] <Kyral> hmm
[01:36] <Kyral> SuSE has a nice installer and a massive package selection on install, BUT its over 5 CDs...
[01:37] <LaserJock> yah, DVDs help
[01:38] <Kyral> yah..
[01:38] <Kyral> but not everyone has a DVD Burner
[01:38] <LaserJock> that is one thing I like about Ubuntu, 1 CD
[01:38] <Kyral> yah
[01:40] <LaserJock> but if you have .isos and use vmware-player...
[01:40] <Kyral> I meant for normal people ;P
[02:03] <lifeless> is anyone interested in packaging kiax
[02:03] <lifeless> ?
[02:03] <Kyral> linky?
[02:03] <lifeless> kiaz.sf.net
[02:03] <lifeless> erm
[02:03] <lifeless> kiax.sf.net
[02:03] <lifeless> linux softphone, talks IAX
[02:03] <Kyral> I'll look in a sec
[02:04] <Kyral> SuSE is installing in a VM, and my computer is a little slow...
[02:04] <Kyral> right now ;P
[02:04] <lifeless> and as we're bring up asterix very soon, having that would rock
[02:04] <Kyral> ?
[02:05] <lifeless> for canonical/ubuntu - we're doing an asterix conference server
[02:05] <Kyral> oh
[02:05] <Kyral> wazzat?
[02:05] <lifeless> asterix - apt-cache should tell ya :)
[02:05] <azeem> lifeless: it's asterisk
[02:07] <lifeless> azeem: lol, right
[02:08] <Burgundavia> lifeless, this going to be accessible to non-canonical employees?
[02:08] <lifeless> Burgundavia: yes
[02:08] <Burgundavia> can ekiga/gnomemeeting do IAX?
[02:09] <lifeless> AFIAK no
[02:09] <lifeless> we'll have sip as well
[02:09] <lifeless> but IAX is nicer
[02:09] <Burgundavia> yep
[02:10] <tseng> opal has iax support
[02:10] <tseng> but i have to disable to build atm
[02:11] <Kyral> Okay
[02:11] <Kyral> we need to beat SuSE's installer
[02:11] <Kyral> and I think I know how to
[02:11] <Burgundavia> Kyral, what does it do better?
[02:11] <Kyral> Let them play Tetris or Space Invaders while the install is going :D
[02:12] <tseng> Kyral: erm
[02:12] <Burgundavia> Kyral, espresso will let people play or surf, etc.
[02:12] <tseng> Kyral: UbuntuExpress, play any game you want
[02:12] <Kyral> oh
[02:12] <tseng> its a livecd installer
[02:12] <Kyral> *sheepish look*
[02:13] <Burgundavia> lifeless, ick kiax is qt/kde
[02:14] <Kyral> yah and I gotta write the guide on it for the DocTeam :D
[02:14] <Burgundavia> Kyral, the UI had better land soon. I understand that the dev sprint is likely to finish the major bits of it
[02:14] <Kyral> I knwo I knwo lol
[02:16] <Kyral> Prolly by Flight 4
[02:16] <Kyral> I am interested in seeing what they come up with
[02:16] <Kyral> like what it looks like
[02:56] <shreddr> must go TODAY.  MESSAGE ME ONLY ON MSN AT MCSLTD2@HOTMAIL.COM, AIM AT OGD443 or YAHOO at MCSLTD2 IF INTERESTED! 1 alienware desktop computer price $550, one alienware area51-m 5700 notebook price $550.  prices include sameday shipping, case, wireless router.
[03:00] <tseng> erg
[03:00] <tseng> better.
[03:01] <tseng> irssi is too smart for my own good
[03:04] <minghua> well done tseng :-)
[03:04] <tseng> wasnt me
[03:04] <tseng> freenode ircop
[03:04] <minghua> oh I see
[03:08] <Kyral> I am beginning to like SuSE lol
[03:08] <Kyral> enough to Dual Boot it
[03:17] <ajmitch> afternoon
[03:22] <SEJeff> Kyral, Are you serious? I have to fix the suse desktops of other admins at work with it's broken gnome implementation
[03:23] <Kyral> lol
[03:23] <Kyral> Its fun...
[03:23] <Kyral> I mean the Server thing
[03:23] <SEJeff> ACPI in SUSE is also crap compared to ubuntu
[03:23] <Kyral> and Xen :D
[03:24] <SEJeff> SLES and SUSE are different... SLES (What we run at work) is pretty sweet
[03:24] <SEJeff> I agree with you about xen
[03:24] <SEJeff> And Apparmor
[03:24] <Kyral> Xen Xen Xen...
[03:29] <sistpoty> hi folks
[03:32] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty
[03:32] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[03:32] <ajmitch> typical, just after I do a bunch of zope merges/syncs, more are uploaded to debian ;)
[03:32] <ajmitch> not new upstreams though, so I might ask for syncs
[03:33] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:38] <poningru> r
[03:52] <phlaegel> apparently mythtv .19 is coming out very soon (ie. about a week). any chance it'll get in to dapper?
[03:54] <ajmitch> it would require a freeze exception
[03:54] <ajmitch> got good reasons for it to go in?
[03:55] <Yagisan> ajmitch: is mythtv still maintained ? IIRC it was mdz's but not anymore
[03:56] <ajmitch> I don't know who cares for it now - I think some of the MOTUs do
[03:56] <ajmitch> I don't have the hardware, otherwise I'd use it
[03:57] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I have the hardware - but no tv reception, so I can't use it :(
[03:57] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I miss Iron Chef on SBS
[03:58] <Yagisan> ajmitch: much better quality then you can get from, well you know where
[03:58] <ajmitch> I get poor tv reception here, and few chanels
[03:58] <ajmitch> s/chanels/channels/
[03:59] <sistpoty> Yagisan: iirc crimsun is working on mythtv
[03:59] <Yagisan> thanks sistpoty
[04:00] <Yagisan> ajmitch: All I want is Iron Chef for me, and Play School for Kate and Eric
[04:00] <Yagisan> ajmitch: and I can't even get that :(
[04:06] <phlaegel> ajmitch: I don't know the specifics, but I know they've done a lot of work on it... some new features, reworked livetv, etc... without it, I'd have to resort to building from source myself ;-)
[04:07] <ajmitch> we hit upstream version freeze last week, so all exceptions need to have reasons :)
[04:07] <phlaegel> I've only been using mythtv for the last couple of versions, but the releases seem to be pretty solid
[04:08] <tseng> like
[04:08] <tseng> beagle 0.2.0
[04:08] <phlaegel> ajmitch: yeah, I know
[04:08] <tseng> my reson?
[04:08] <tseng> it builds
[04:08] <ajmitch> f-spot 0.1.8 (when it's there) - because it fixes a few of the debian bugs
[04:09] <stratus> ajmitch, cool that you wrote f-spot
[04:10] <tseng> he did?
[04:10] <tseng> that is cool
[04:10] <stratus> ajmitch, they implemented flickrnet or not yet?
[04:10] <stratus> tseng, lol he wrote the word f-spot and not the software
[04:10] <tseng> well then
[04:10] <ajmitch> stratus: not that I know of
[04:10] <tseng> f-spot f-spot f-spot
[04:10] <tseng> go me
[04:11] <ajmitch> stratus: might be worth integrating
[04:11] <ajmitch> stratus: why is saying f-spot cool?
[04:11] <stratus> because it reminded me about the flickrnet thing.
[04:12] <stratus> ajmitch, i see someone rewriting the flickr support since it's ugly and only support old accounts
[04:12] <ajmitch> stratus: yes, it doesn't work with my flickr account
[04:12] <ajmitch> I had looked at it very briefly
[04:12] <ajmitch> but someone else was working on it I think
[04:12] <stratus> ajmitch, i've a new account too.
[04:12] <stratus> ajmitch, i see
[04:13] <stratus> btw, i'm working on a new (unrelated) toy right now, it's under tests
[04:13] <stratus> i call that piupartme.
[04:13] <stratus> piupartme goal is pass each universe package through piuparts
[04:14] <ajmitch> ok
[04:15] <ajmitch> that can be done in a few lines of shell, I've already got such a script
[04:16] <stratus> ajmitch, but you wrote a heavily hardcoded script, no?
[04:17] <ajmitch> sure, it's just something to run on my box at the moment
[04:17] <stratus> oh, i see
[04:17] <stratus> ajmitch, piupartme has 54 lines of python code atm
[04:17] <stratus> ajmitch, with it you can do the same against ubuntu main, debian sid, whatever.
[04:17] <ajmitch> ok
[04:17] <ajmitch> where will you publish it?
[04:19] <stratus> ajmitch, i'm testing it on my laptop right now (but i won't run against the entire universe)...
[04:20] <ajmitch> my laptop is now my fastest box now, it seems
[04:20] <stratus> ajmitch, after the tests i'll change the needed bits to run it inside debian but against ubuntu universe.
[04:20] <stratus> ajmitch, i've some servers (p4 3g ht, 2gb ram) running debian but nothing so good running ubuntu.
[04:20] <ajmitch> stratus: I notice that it can give very detailed reports, including about other packages that are dependencies of the ones you are testing
[04:21] <ajmitch> nearly all of my packages had some cruft left behind due to deps
[04:21] <stratus> ajmitch, sure i plan to do the update things too, but i'll need more cpu power
[04:23] <sistpoty> btw ajmitch: do you have anything for unmet deps yet?
[04:24] <ajmitch> sistpoty: no
[04:24] <stratus> packages with unmet deps where? universe?
[04:24] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I've hardly started working on it, I had a brief post-UVF break
[04:24] <ajmitch> stratus: yes
[04:24] <sistpoty> stratus: sure, usually lots of them
[04:25] <ajmitch> stratus: looking at using britney to get a report
[04:25] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess I'll do a branch of the merge list-tool to have a similar list. I only need some input which packages are affected yet :)
[04:26] <sistpoty> (maybe I'll start with siretarts list)
[04:26] <ajmitch> sistpoty: ok, I planned something a bit more than a simple list
[04:26] <sistpoty> ajmitch: what do you have in mind?
[04:26] <ajmitch> sistpoty: since it ends up being a set of interconnected packages
[04:26] <ajmitch> so you identify which one really needs fixed to give the most benefit
[04:27] <ajmitch> ie, dependants & dependencies
[04:27] <ajmitch> hm, bzr diff is taking a lot of cpu
[04:27] <sistpoty> hm... but for workflow this basically means a list with packages to work on?
[04:27] <ajmitch> sistpoty: yes
[04:28] <sistpoty> ajmitch: good... then this should be pretty trivial to branch from the merge-list. what packages are listed depends on the input then ;)
[04:38] <ajmitch> hm
[04:38] <ajmitch> I wonder why my dapper base tarball is so very very large
[04:39] <ajmitch> 1.7GB is just excessive
[04:40] <minghua> package cache?
[04:40] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:40] <ajmitch> the base tarball has /var/cache/apt/archives
[04:40] <ajmitch> it shouldn't have all those
[04:41] <ajmitch> most dating back to august or so
[04:50] <ajmitch> ah that's better, 63MB, not 1.7GB
[04:50] <ajmitch> pbuilder login --save-after-login is not safe when it hardlinks in all the apt cache
[04:52] <minghua> yeah, I was bitten by that once as well
[04:53] <minghua> I think it only happen if you use the APTCACHE out of chroot
[04:53] <minghua> it either hardlink it, or bindmount it, I don't remember
[04:55] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:55] <ajmitch> both are far faster than copying it in
[04:58] <sistpoty> what does O_DIRECT do?
[04:58] <psusi> sistpoty, tells the kernel not to buffer the data... just directly transfer to/from the hardware
[04:59] <psusi> saves memory and cpu time since two copies of the data are't made... it's very nice
[04:59] <sistpoty> but how could this been done for sockets?
[05:00] <psusi> same way it's done for anything else... don't copy to kernel buffers.. instead have the hardware directly dma to/from the user buffers
[05:01] <sistpoty> dunno about the internals, but don't you need to put some network protocol in there for sockets?
[05:01] <psusi> you mean slap on some packet headers?  yea
[05:02] <sistpoty> exactly... at least for nic's which don't do this in hw... but I have no clue how networking inside the kernel works, though ;)
[05:02] <psusi> the nic has to support scatter/gather dma so the kenrel can program it to grab the packet headers from kernel space, and the body from the user buffers
[05:03] <psusi> I wrote an ftp server on NT back in 1998/99 using this technique.... it was able to push 11,820 KB/s over a single connection on a fast ethernet network...
[05:04] <psusi> plugged in a second nic and saturated them both... with less than 1% of the cpu on a PII-233
[05:07] <ajmitch> sistpoty: great, you got mythplugins uploaded :)
[05:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, I really ruined mdz's packaging now *G*
[05:08] <sistpoty> (it's a bit horrible now, but I hope it works)
[05:09] <ajmitch> heh
[05:12] <sistpoty> eeks... I really should have run lintian... setting compat to 5 and forgetting to adjust debhelper b-d :(
[05:13] <ajmitch> oops
[05:13] <ajmitch> naughty
[05:17] <psusi> so... anyone here ever udebified a package before?  I think I've managed to udebify dmraid, but I'd like someone to take a look at it on revu
[05:37] <bmonty> ajmitch: on the openssl issue I asked you about yesterday, do I put the openssl acknowledgement in the copyright file?
[05:37] <ajmitch> if it's really in the source's copyright
[05:38] <ajmitch> maybe something to clarify with the debian maintainer
[05:38] <bmonty> it is in the source's copyright, but checking with the maintainer probably isn't a bad idea
[05:44] <Amaranth> does the source at least have a LICENSE file?
[05:44] <Amaranth> or have a note in every file saying the license?
[05:49] <Yagisan> Amaranth: it's from a package that was rejected because upstream has mixed licenses which no longer pass the dfsg tests, but can be distributed non-commercially
[05:49] <Amaranth> Yagisan: multiverse, if it gets in at all
[05:49] <Amaranth> what is it?
[05:50] <Yagisan> Amaranth: a doom source port
[05:50] <Amaranth> also, the non-commercially thing would probably keep it out of multiverse too
[05:50] <sistpoty> hooray... mythplugins all built
[05:50] <Yagisan> Amaranth: my 3rd party repo page http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi/community-projects/yagisan-s-doomsday-for-debian-ubuntu/
[05:51] <Amaranth> ah
[05:52] <Yagisan> Amaranth: what is annoying is that one of the raven programmers later stated heretic/hexen are now public domain
[05:52] <Amaranth> not good enough
[05:53] <Yagisan> Amaranth: in a doomworld forum, but I can't find the post now :(, and there is no mention @ raven software :(
[05:53] <Amaranth> everyone who touched the code has to have something publicly verifiable
[05:53] <sistpoty> Yagisan: just the engine or data as well?
[05:54] <Yagisan> sistpoty: just the engine, actually only two source directorys - easy to delete if you don't want heretic or hexen
[05:54] <Yagisan> sistpoty: you'd need to either buy the data, or use freedoom + a megawad to play
[05:55] <sistpoty> would have been so cool, if they made data available as well...
[05:55] <Yagisan> sistpoty: I agree - but they still actually sell it !!!
[05:56] <sistpoty> heretic and hexen? wow... didn't know that
[05:57] <sistpoty> anyway, I'm off to bed now... gn8 everyone
[05:57] <minghua> good night sistpoty
[06:17] <Kyral> lol
[06:18] <Kyral> HURD!
[06:41] <persia> psusi: Realistic sonar?
[06:42] <ajmitch> psusi: what game?
[06:43] <psusi> dangers of the deep
[06:43] <psusi> I'm trying to package it
[06:45] <ajmitch> fun
[06:45] <psusi> any idea WTF debuild would say it is ignoring deletion of (every god damned file in the orig tarball)?
[06:45] <psusi> heh
[06:57] <zakame> hello all
[06:58] <minghua> hi zakame
[06:58] <zakame> heya minghua :)
[08:24] <tepsipakki> hello all
[08:24] <tepsipakki> I made a new upload of gtkpod-aac yesterday
[08:24] <tepsipakki> to REVU of course
[09:22] <Mez> ajmitch: do you think it would be a good thing for me to go through a load of apps in ubuntu and re-make them so that they like - hae tighter depends (fix the whole libtool thing!)
[09:22] <ajmitch> such as?
[09:22] <minghua> hi Mez, I remember you asking the Qt immodule thing on debian-devel list
[09:23] <minghua> Mez: did you get any answer for that?  AFAIK debian's qt3 doesn't has the immodule patch applied
[09:23] <Mez> ajmitch: well put it this way
[09:23] <Mez> minghua - nope - no answer - though we submitted a patch for it anyays
[09:24] <minghua> Mez: to qt-x11-free?  I think I want to subscribe to that bug
[09:25] <lifeless> twelth from the top of NEW
[09:25] <Mez> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/515823
[09:25] <Mez> ajmitch:
[09:25] <Mez> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/515823
[09:26] <Mez> minghua, 347377
[09:27] <minghua> Mez: thanks
[09:28] <ajmitch> Mez: and how much divergence from debian do you want to introduce now?
[09:29] <Mez> ajmitch: I would only modify *ubuntu* packages
[09:29] <Mez> and would submit patch upstream and stuff
[09:29] <Mez> + It's being asked for in debian :P
[09:29] <Mez> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/11/msg00016.html
[09:31] <ajmitch> ok,, do it if you want :)
[09:32] <Mez> hmm
[09:32] <Mez> minghua: lol
[09:32] <Mez> mine is (well will be)
[09:33] <Mez> and I only asked casue I've just updated yakuake to fix it (talking to the DD regarding it!)
[09:34] <minghua> Mez: I think I'll learn from you how to do it properly
[09:34] <Mez> minghua: It's really really easy
[09:35] <Mez> lol - well for KDE stuff anyways
[09:35] <minghua> Mez: I didn't fix my packages because I don't understand autotools at all, and since my upstream uses resonably recent autotools + libtool, and they compile on all arches, I didn't bother
[09:35] <Mez> minghua: thing is - does it use DEBIAN's libtool?
[09:35] <minghua> Mez: no
[09:36] <Mez> minghua: there comes the problem - the libtool stuff is in debian only
[09:36] <Mez> have a read of that link above
[09:36] <Mez> it tells you a lot
[09:36] <minghua> I only use the new config.{sub,guess}, but didn't relibtoolize it
[09:37] <Mez> minghua, http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/libtool-updating.html
[09:38] <minghua> Mez: thanks for the links, reading
[09:39] <Mez> minghua, no probs
[09:39] <minghua> I read d-d-a, but didn't follow all the links in that mail
[09:40] <Mez> when ever someone mentions d-d-a I always think ddr
[10:54] <phanatic> hi people
[10:55] <spiritz> hi
[10:55] <Gloubiboulga> hello phanatic
[10:55] <phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
[10:55] <phanatic> i fixed the package
[10:55] <phanatic> uploaded to revu yesterday
[10:56] <Gloubiboulga> phanatic, cool
[10:56] <phanatic> Gloubiboulga: if you have a little time, could you have a look at it pls?
[10:57] <minghua> relibtoolizing fixed that, though
[10:58] <Gloubiboulga> phanatic, I'm looking at it... but I am not a MOTU
[11:29] <nlindblad> hello masters
[12:25] <Fuddl> ... eeeehm..... would somebody like to take a look at the quake3 package i uploaded to revu.tauware.de? *smiiiiiiiile*
[12:27] <siretart> link?
[12:27] <siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1570
[12:30] <phanatic> i also uploaded a new version of gnome-rdp, if any of the masters have time for it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1576
[12:41] <siretart> phlaegel: advocated
[12:46] <teprrr> Fuddl, hmm. why there is those quke3-server*.preinst, prerm, postinst, postrm and shlibs if they're empty?
[12:47] <teprrr> and there quake3_*.preinst, prerm and shlibs which seem to be empty too
[12:47] <teprrr> I don't know the policy, just thinking :)
[12:47] <siretart> teprrr: they are not available in the package
[12:48] <teprrr> hmm
[12:48] <siretart> teprrr: it is just the script, which creates them. if they have size 0, then the package does not have them
[12:49] <Fuddl> teprrr: yepp, no pre* or post* stuff is in the source package
[12:49] <teprrr> oh, okay.. the package of mine doesn't have those though: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1568
[01:23] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[01:24] <\sh> moins
[01:27] <siretart> hi ajmitch, hi \sh
[01:28] <ajmitch> hello siretart
[01:28] <\sh> moins siretart
[01:36] <\sh> oergs mail time :)
[01:48] <ajmitch> night all
[01:48] <tseng> bye ajmitch
[01:48] <jpatrick> ajmitch: night
[01:48] <siretart> gn8 ajmitch
[01:49] <\sh> ajmitch: sleep well :)
[02:01] <marcin`> hello MOTU
[02:01] <marcin`> got a question
[02:01] <Yagisan> night ajmitch
[02:01] <marcin`> what you guys do when you want to change name of package?
[02:01] <Yagisan> marcin`: first - why do you want to change the name of a package ?
[02:01] <tseng> a source package or a binary?
[02:02] <marcin`> how you count releases? what about changelog?
[02:03] <marcin`> Yagisan: hmm for example to use different name convention
[02:03] <marcin`> tseng: both
[02:05] <Yagisan> marcin`: is this package from debian ?
[02:05] <marcin`> Yagisan: kind of...
[02:06] <marcin`> Yagisan: there are packages that are available in debian and some new packages
[02:06] <Yagisan> marcin`: wishlist bug + very good reason @ debian bts
[02:06] <Yagisan> marcin`: new packages - not in ubuntu already ?
[02:06] <marcin`> I'm just going to upload a bunch of packages to REVU...
[02:06] <marcin`> Yagisan: yes not in ubuntu and not in debian
[02:07] <marcin`> Yagisan: but related to some infrastructure that is already available in debian and ubuntu
[02:07] <Yagisan> marcin`: the new packages - different source to the debian packages ?
[02:07] <marcin`> Yagisan: it's about Emacs
[02:08] <marcin`> Yagisan: I would like to package some *.el files and tools for Emacs
[02:08] <marcin`> Yagisan: but also repackage some existing debs
[02:08] <Yagisan> marcin`: name the new packages consistently with existing package names if possible
[02:08] <marcin`> Yagisan: and that the problem
[02:08] <Yagisan> marcin`: why repackage ?
[02:08] <marcin`> Yagisan: because in fact I don't see any naming convention for emacs packages
[02:09] <marcin`> Yagisan: it's just chaos and mess
[02:09] <marcin`> Yagisan: this is why I would like to change names of some existing packages
[02:09] <Yagisan> marcin`: repackaging that sounds like unnecessarily divergence from upstream
[02:09] <minghua> never read it though
[02:09] <Yagisan> marcin`: wishlist bug + very good reason @ debian bts + patch may help
[02:10] <marcin`> minghua: there is emacs policy - but it's related to how emacs packages install and uninstall libraries
[02:10] <marcin`> minghua: and about emacsen-common scrpits
[02:10] <minghua> marcin`: okay.  I am really not familar with that part at all
[02:10] <marcin`> Yagisan: why repackage: 1. because I want to use cdbs in rules
[02:11] <marcin`> Yagisan: 2. because there is a lot of things in emacs packages that just don't work at all
[02:11] <Yagisan> marcin`: so what - upstream will eat you for eat - it becomes your baby for life
[02:11] <Yagisan> s/for eat/for that
[02:11] <Yagisan> marcin`: fixing is good, changing upstreams build system without discussing it with them is bad
[02:12] <Yagisan> marcin`: they have already complained about it
[02:12] <marcin`> Yagisan: 3. bacause there is a big mess in emacs packages especially in names
[02:12] <marcin`> Yagisan: for example you got pretty simple naming convention for libs*, python2.*-*, perl*-* etc....
[02:13] <marcin`> Yagisan: but emacs is just mess
[02:13] <marcin`> Yagisan: anyway - this is why I want to upload this to REVU - to start discussion - right?
[02:13] <Yagisan> marcin`: no doubt, but because we are taking this from debian, it is much much much easier for us, if we can get debian to do the renaming
[02:13] <Yagisan> marcin`: are you on the ubuntu-motu mailing list ?
[02:14] <Yagisan> marcin`: an email there will get you responses from real MOTU's not an apprentice like me
[02:15] <Yagisan> marcin`: but as I said, name your new packages as you like
[02:15] <marcin`> Yagisan: ok, I'll do
[02:15] <marcin`> Yagisan: but my question was - what you do when you want to change name
[02:15] <marcin`> Yagisan: what you do with changelog
[02:15] <Yagisan> marcin`: yes, I know - but the why is important
[02:16] <Yagisan> marcin`: I only know how to change binary names
[02:16] <marcin`> Yagisan: and what you do with release numbers...
[02:16] <Yagisan> marcin`: I kept the changelog intact
[02:16] <Yagisan> marcin`: new binary name = new number
[02:16] <Yagisan> marcin`: I changed the name of the binary in control
[02:17] <Yagisan> marcin`: and added a Replaces: Oldname
[02:17] <Yagisan> marcin`: line to the control file
[02:18] <Yagisan> marcin`: someone like tseng most likely knows if I forgot something, and how to do it for a source package
[02:18] <marcin`> Yagisan: so, for example: we got erc-5.0.2-5 and I would like to change it's name to emacs-erc-5.0.2
[02:18] <marcin`> Yagisan: then release number counts from 1 right?
[02:18] <marcin`> Yagisan: emacs-erc-5.0.2-1 right?
[02:19] <Yagisan> marcin`: I think you could do that
[02:20] <marcin`> Yagisan: and you just continue changelog but with new entries starting with new name?
[02:20] <phanatic> hi people
[02:21] <marcin`> Yagisan: anyway sorry I have to leave now... thanks
[02:21] <Yagisan> marcin`: in my case the source package didn't change, so I did nothing to the changelog
[02:21] <Yagisan> marcin`: no worries - hope I was helpful
[02:55] <zakame> hi MOTUs :)
[03:08] <Yagisan> G'day zakame
[03:08] <zakame> heya Yagisan :)
[03:11] <Yagisan> zakame: adopting a few debian packages ? Seems every time I check I see you looking for sponsers
[03:11] <zakame> Yagisan: no actually I was just updating packages adopted from Clint
[03:12] <zakame> Yagisan: it was only now that Clint (or someone else iirc) filed O bugs, which I promptly ITA'd
[03:26] <phanatic> if any of the MOTUs have some time, please have a look at this upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1577
[03:26] <phanatic> thanks in advance
[03:36] <Hieronymus> Someone who can post comments on REVU, please copy my mailinglist comment for quake3-data of 18 january to REVU
[03:38] <zakame> wb rbelem , raphink :)
[03:39] <rbelem> morning zakame, raphink
[03:39] <rbelem> morning all ;-)
[03:41] <siretart> Hieronymus: you could talk directly to Fuddl :)
[03:41] <siretart> Hieronymus: I don't know if OpenArena works with q3 yet
[03:41] <Hieronymus> siretart: it does
[03:41] <Hieronymus> I'm running it
[03:42] <Hieronymus> but I needed to bypass his data file checks
[03:42] <siretart> oh
[03:43] <siretart> Hieronymus: IIRC the idea of the package was that there could be other packages, which replace/enhance it
[03:43] <siretart> Hieronymus: so you would 'just' need to package OpenArena as well
[03:43] <Hieronymus> siretart: yeah
[03:43] <Hieronymus> it's in the README.Debian
[03:46] <Yagisan> Hieronymus: you have free data for quake3 ??
[03:47] <Hieronymus> Yagisan: http://planetgargoyle.com/openarena
[03:47] <Hieronymus> Yagisan: it has 2-3 levels, 1-2 characters and ~6 weapons
[03:48] <Hieronymus> but it's playable
[03:48] <Hieronymus> no bots
[03:49] <Hieronymus> Yagisan: I'm not going to package it
[03:50] <Hieronymus> it's too pre-alpha for that, and the copyright/license information isn't clearly stated
[03:50] <siretart> Hieronymus: so what do you actually ask fuddl?
[03:51] <Hieronymus> siretart: shall I just write it down more clearly?
[03:51] <Yagisan> Hieronymus: I see - I've been beating my upstreams with cluebats for their data files - didn't help that someone copied it and was selling it on ebay though :(
[03:52] <Hieronymus> I don't have a quake III CD, but I should be able to use the package anyway, without modifying his quake3 script
[03:52] <Hieronymus> Yagisan: what do you mean?
[03:53] <Hieronymus> What do I do when my debian/watch file doesn't work, and I don't know why?
[03:54] <Yagisan> Hieronymus: literally someone copied their data, stripped the copyright notices, packaged Id software iwads, and a windows port of the engine, and was selling it on ebay as Doom 3
[03:55] <Hieronymus> sue!
[03:56] <Yagisan> Hieronymus: if they catch the guy, I'm sure they will. But they have been more restrictive with the data since then.
[03:59] <Fuddl> perhaps i should write a note to the quake3 control file it will pull quake3-data which will need the cd
[04:00] <Fuddl> oh yes, i should do that, the quake2 package also does it
[04:02] <Fuddl> Hieronymus: installing the demo-data doesn't work 100%, a lot of textures get scrambled, sounds are missing, and, and, and - that's why i didn't give the option to install the data files from the demo in the postinst script of quake3-data
[04:04] <Hieronymus> Fuddl: I don't want to install the demo data
[04:05] <Hieronymus> but it should be very easy to make an openarena package once that gets past pre-alpha stage
[04:05] <Hieronymus> and right now quake3 won't run even if I put a pak0.pk3 in the baseq3 folder
[04:13] <Kyral> Morning
[04:13] <phanatic> hi Kyral
[04:14] <Yagisan> Kyral: damm, your right it is morning
[04:14] <thierry_> JohnyMast : you told me yesterday to ping you about my package
[04:17] <Kyral> raphink, no offense, but you are picky...
[04:18] <raphink> Kyral: what do you mean?
[04:19] <Kyral> your last comment on GTKEdit reminded me of the "No newline at end of file" warnings in Lintian ;P
[04:19] <raphink> Kyral: look at all the debian/control you can find ;)
[04:19] <raphink> Kyral: it's just a very small detail I know ;)
[04:20] <Kyral> Oh well, at least you like it...
[04:20] <raphink> I almost advocated it
[04:20] <Kyral> the Debian Devs flat out don't
[04:20] <ajmitch> that
[04:20] <raphink> they don't like the package?
[04:20] <Kyral> yah
[04:20] <ajmitch> there's been talk of even removing gtk+ 1.2 stuff in the future
[04:20] <Kyral> mostly along the lines of "Ick its GTK 1"
[04:20] <ajmitch> at least gnome 1.x
[04:21] <Kyral> Well, if you read the webpage, you will see the reason why its GTK 1
[04:21] <ajmitch> I know
[04:25] <Kyral> raphink: reuploaded
[04:25] <Kyral> whenever the next REVU cycle is, it will show up
[04:26] <Kyral> your vote will make two votes, so feel free for upload (you are MOTU now aren't you?)
[04:27] <ajmitch> raphink: I see you're requiring a Homepage entry in debian/control, why is that?
[04:32] <Yagisan> night ajmitch (again)
[04:32] <ajmitch> :)
[04:32] <Hieronymus> Can anyone tell me why uscan doesn't like my debian/watch (http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7454) with uscan output (http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7453)?
[04:49] <teprrr> hmm, how should I proceed after accidentally uploading a package without original source? after I fixed the problem dput doesn't want to upload the package..
[04:49] <teprrr> should I bump the version or..?
[04:50] <Mithrandir> rm the $pkg_$version.upload file
[04:53] <teprrr> Mithrandir, ah. thanks.
[04:54] <raphink> ajmitch: yeah it's surely not policy, but it's a very common habbit, that it's nice
[04:54] <raphink> ajmitch: but I reckon it shouldn't be a requirement
[05:00] <phanatic> raphink: could you have a look at this one: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1576 ?
[05:02] <teprrr> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1578 -- umh, I still can't see the .orig.tar.gz there..
[05:02] <teprrr> but at least dput said it's uploaded there.. and the page shows that there's been a change
[05:03] <phanatic> teprrr: there's a .tar.gz
[05:03] <phanatic> including the debian dir
[05:04] <teprrr> phanatic, yes. but it isn't the orig one.
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> is there a lib specialist around? it's about http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1536
[05:04] <phanatic> teprrr: check the package building process
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> I'd like to avoid a fight between sistpoty and hub ;)
[05:05] <teprrr> phanatic, hmm?
[05:06] <phanatic> teprrr: your package seems to be built as a native package
[05:07] <teprrr> phanatic, you mean without the orig. source? yup, that happened accidentally and I've fixed it locally
[05:08] <teprrr> was -<version>.orig instead of _<version>.orig and it failed :/
[05:10] <thierry_> JohnyMast : ping
[05:13] <teprrr> ok, solved, thanks to phanatic :)
[05:26] <raphink> phanatic: I'm hesitating to upload gnome-rdp
[05:26] <raphink> phanatic: it's very good technically, nothing to say
[05:26] <raphink> now the point where I struggle is a licensing one
[05:26] <\sh> grmpf...need to update 5 gentoo servers
[05:27] <raphink> since the upstream didn't put any reference to a license in any of their source files
[05:27] <\sh> raphink: raise the issue to ubuntu-devel, so elmo can have a look (cc to james)
[05:27] <raphink> not even a reference to COPYING
[05:27] <raphink> ok
[05:28] <raphink> \sh: well i'd say phanatic could ping upstream to get them add the 3 paragraphs for GPL in each source file
[05:28] <raphink> and that would do
[05:28] <phanatic> raphink: should i ask upstream about licensing?
[05:28] <phanatic> ok :)
[05:28] <raphink> phanatic: yes I think so
[05:28] <\sh> or put the whole gpl license into the source
[05:28] <phanatic> i'll write an email now
[05:28] <raphink> \sh: the whole GPL is present in COPYING
[05:29] <raphink> this is not the issue
[05:29] <raphink> Debian policy states that each source file should either clearly state the license it falls under
[05:29] <raphink> or link to COPYING
[05:29] <raphink> which is not the case
[05:30] <raphink> I don't consider `// project created on 09/20/2005 at 20:33` a proper licensing header ;)
[05:30] <siretart> phanatic: tell your upstream to read the gpl
[05:30] <siretart> phanatic: espc. the 'how to apply the gpl' part
[05:31] <raphink> yep
[05:31] <raphink> http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html#SEC4
[05:31] <raphink> :)
[05:32] <phanatic> okay :)
[05:33] <thierry_> siretart : could you review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1572 JohnyMast said yesterday he would find someone to do it this morning but he doesn't respond since 3 hours...
[05:33] <thierry_> JohnyMast also said it looked good :)
[05:35] <phanatic> raphink: i mailed upstream. if everything will be okay, he'll release a new version tomorrow (containing the Makefile patch too)
[05:35] <phanatic> and thanks for the review
[05:35] <raphink> phanatic: great, I'll be happy to upload it if there's not too many changes
[05:42] <phanatic> i have another package uploaded as well, and i don't fully agree with zakame about his complaints: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1579
[05:51] <Mithrandir> is Danilo Piazzalunga a MOTU?
[05:52] <\sh> not that I know of
[05:52] <\sh> what's his nick?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
[05:53] <\sh> to be honest, I don't know the realname..
[06:05] <hub> Gloubiboulga: there won't be any fight
[06:05] <hub> Gloubiboulga: he has seniority
[06:05] <Gloubiboulga> hub, I was just kidding :)
[07:04] <thierry_> JohnyMast : ping
[07:04] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : ping
[07:07] <JohnnyMast> thierry_ pong
[07:27] <thierry_> JohnnyMast : you said yesterday you would find someone to review my package...
[07:27] <JohnnyMast> aah right hold on
[07:28] <JohnnyMast> slomo_, are you here ?
[07:36] <thierry_> siretart : could you review my package?
[08:41] <mxpxpod> is anyone having problems with spamassassin?
[08:46] <crimsun> mxpxpod: did you ping benc (or file a bug in malone) about your ppc sound issue(s)?
[08:46] <mxpxpod> crimsun: not yet.. I haven't gotten to it ;)
[08:47] <crimsun> mxpxpod: ok
[08:47] <mxpxpod> crimsun: I think it has something to do with the suspend bug in malone
[08:48] <mxpxpod> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/29268
[08:48] <crimsun> mxpxpod: k, ppc isn't my arena, just trying to keep abreast of the sound bugs
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29268: "linux-image-2.6.15-13-powerpc breaks sleep on ibook g4" Fix req. for: linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[08:48] <mxpxpod> crimsun: I still have to get a launchpad.net account ;)
[08:49] <mxpxpod> oh, wait
[08:49] <mxpxpod> looks like I have one...
[09:15] <tseng> anyone have a problem with gnome-power-manager
[09:15] <mxpxpod> tseng: yup
[09:15] <crimsun> tseng: ogra mentioned not having merged the new version yet
[09:15] <tseng> mxpxpod: child exits?
[09:15] <crimsun> said it was blocked on a glib issue
[09:16] <mxpxpod> tseng: keeps telling me that hal doesn't have powermanagement enabled
[09:16] <tseng> mxpxpod: nope.
[09:16] <teprrr> hmm, can I somehow get a package into universe when the author of the app has made the package? looks like for debian though
[09:16] <mxpxpod> tseng: strange... that's what it's telling me :(
[09:16] <tseng> mine just exits with no output
[09:16] <mxpxpod> tseng: do a gnome-power-manager --no-daemon
[09:16] <crimsun> mxpxpod: that's the issue that mjg59 asked about yesterday (to which ogra referred)
[09:17] <mxpxpod> crimsun: ah, ok
[09:17] <teprrr> and how long it usually takes that someone will review the package on revu?
[09:18] <mxpxpod> tseng: are you having a problem with spamassassin?
[09:24] <phanatic> hi people
[09:24] <phanatic> raphink: the package is under way
[09:25] <teprrr> hello
[09:36] <Kyral> uo LJ
[09:37] <ajmitch> crimsun: you're doing some work on alsa upstream at the moment?
[09:38] <phanatic> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1583 (licensing info added + patch applied by upstream)
[09:38] <crimsun> ajmitch: in a bit, yes (your issue is noted)
[09:38] <ajmitch> crimsun: oh I know someone is assigned to the issue I care about :)
[09:38] <LaserJock> Hi Kyral
[09:41] <stratus> root@trinity:/var/log/piupartme# cat 1-21-2006/kerneltop/piupartme-kerneltop.log
[09:41] <stratus> piupartme: package [kerneltop]  - version [unknown]  - build attempt at: 1-21-2006
[09:41] <stratus> piupartme: package [kerneltop]  - version [unknown]  - maybe-successful
[09:41] <stratus> nice!
[09:42] <stratus> ajmitch, my little toy is just a step (or two) since its first run through each universe package
[09:43] <stratus> ajmitch, it lacks some speed optimizations and a small db containing a hash with the last package and the version tested (to avoid run the same tests over a package two times)
[09:44] <stratus> everything else looks good and is customizable
[09:54] <\sh> grrr..mysql upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1 on gentoo is a pain
[10:23] <teprrr> can anyone help me?
[10:23] <teprrr> with those things I mentioned earlier :)
[10:25] <\sh> why, in gods almighty name, has cacti a dependency on lighttpd on gentoo?
[10:25] <\sh> now I have to bloddy webservers
[10:58] <Hieronymus> Can debian/watch handle XML?
[10:59] <Hieronymus> It's not working right with http://taschenorakel.de/svn/repos/bulldozer/releases/
[11:20] <VelvetElvis> is this where I go to ask about an afterstep 2.2.0 package for dapper?  It's in sid
[11:21] <ajmitch> yes, we'll need to have good reasons to get a new version in though
[11:21] <ajmitch> upstream version freeze was a few days ago :)
[11:21] <VelvetElvis> it's a new major version that you didn't get to before?
[11:22] <VelvetElvis> it's been in sid for weeks
[11:22] <ajmitch> weeks?
[11:22] <ajmitch> no, it was uploaded only a week ago
[11:22] <VelvetElvis> ok, my bad
[11:23] <VelvetElvis> anyway, any chance of that happening or should I break down and try and build my own?
[11:23] <ajmitch> upstream version freeze means we don't put in new major versions without reasons
[11:23] <ajmitch> sure, there's a chance
[11:24] <Hieronymus> VelvetElvis: if you think there's a good reason to include the new version, write a UVF exception report
[11:24] <ajmitch> the way of doing those reports has to be documented properly
[11:27] <VelvetElvis> right. ok to post changelog?  support for fullscreen is the main reason i'm wanting it
[11:27] <VelvetElvis> Hieronymus: where/how do I do that?
[11:27] <VelvetElvis> er, url to changelong?
[11:28] <Hieronymus> VelvetElvis: look in the archives of devel
[11:28] <VelvetElvis> ok, thanks