[12:02] <irvin> mvo: i think so yes. otherwise, we need to start update-manager again
[12:03] <mvo> I think I'll add that to the next version, thanks
[12:04] <kent> mvo, would you want my dist-upgrade.log and dist-upgrade-apt.log?  I ran it but it failed first becaus of it couldn't download two or three files (which synaptic and apt has failed some time before, probably becaus of the server and my netspeed) but the second time it downloaded everything but failed when wanting to overwrite some file with coreutils.  It seems like it has nothing to do with the update-manager and instead to do with dapper-pro
[12:04] <kent> blems..
[12:05] <mvo> kent: thanks! yes, I would be interessted in the files (it includes the upgraded package information, I'm interessted in those). 
[12:05] <mvo> it seems to me like it should auto-retry to fetch failed files at least two or three times 
[12:06] <mvo> I got another report about that before
[12:07] <kent> mvo, il send you the files now then.  just a second or two..
[12:09] <mvo> kent: thanks! I'll have a close look tomorrow, it's rather late here already
[12:09] <mvo> thanks everyone for the nice feedback and testing! you are a great help!
[02:54] <ds> swfdec needs to be resynchronized with Debian, because the maintainer screwed it up
[06:26] <jsgotangco> good afternoon
[08:08] <pitti> Hi
[09:20] <sivang> morning all!
[09:22] <torkel> group hug :-)
[09:22] <sivang> yeah :)
[09:52] <mvo> hello Diziet, around?
[10:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: ppc live CD (current) hangs at 'Mounting root file system', known bug?
[10:02] <pitti> Hi StevenK 
[10:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: the current live cd has an ancient live fs image, so possibly.
[10:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: due to u-desktop uninstallability?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes.  I spent most of last week not fixing that. :-/
[10:04] <Den> Mithrandir: Hey Mith! How's th progress on the dapper live iso your local build?  Think it might be available today?
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Den: I said I'll mail you when I have it ready, I'm still going through my email.
[10:23] <dholbach> good morning
[10:24] <jsgotangco> good morning dholbach 
[10:24] <dholbach> good morning mr. gotangco
[10:28] <dholbach> hey sivang
[10:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: my panel is acting up again.  It's not frozen, but my applications menu is gone, the applets work, but my clock applet is skewed to the right.
[10:45] <mvo> Diziet: ping?
[10:46] <seb128> vuntz_: around? :) (for Mithrandir's panel issue)
[10:46] <seb128> Mithrandir: let's try if vuntz (who is upstream for it) has some idea :)
[10:51] <janimo> ogra ping
[10:51] <sivang> can anybody tell me what's wrong with that construct:
[10:51] <sivang>    File "DeviceInfo.py", line 106
[10:51] <sivang>      if !(self[device] ['ReadWrite'] ):
[10:51] <sivang>         ^
[10:51] <sivang> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
[10:52] <Mithrandir> it not self[device] ['ReadWrite']  ?
[10:52] <torkel> move ! inside () ?
[10:52] <mdke> Mithrandir, did you upload ubuntu-docs already? we have another bug that we could fix quickly
[10:52] <Mithrandir> mdke: no, I haven't uploaded yet.  I was going to do it RSN.
[10:52] <vuntz_> seb128: pong
[10:52] <Mithrandir> mdke: what's the other bug?
[10:53] <mdke> Mithrandir, a sample/ directory is missing from the debian/install, which means that some links are broken in the Starter Guide
[10:53] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: my panel is screwing up.  The applications/system/places menu is gone, my clock is skewed so only half of the MSD of the minutes is visible.
[10:53] <seb128> vuntz_: hi :) Do you have any of what could do what Mithrandir described some lines up
[10:53] <Kamion> sivang: use "not" rather than "!"
[10:53] <Kamion> sivang: or "~" if you want bitwise negation
[10:53] <mdke> Mithrandir, is trivial fix
[10:54] <Mithrandir> mdke: can you give me a patch?
[10:54] <Kamion> sivang: probably "if not self[device] ['ReadWrite'] :"
[10:54] <mdke> Mithrandir, yeah, but I'm not very good at patches. Now is the time to learn. Where is the source again?
[10:55] <seb128> Kamion: is libtotem-plparse1 waiting somewhere to be accepted/promoted? :)
[10:55] <Mithrandir> seb128: it just got NEWed
[10:55] <seb128> nice
[10:56] <seb128> Mithrandir: should fix the instabillity issues for GNOME stuff
[10:56] <sivang> Kamion: thanks a lot,getting used to use '!' for year took it's toll :)
[10:56] <Mithrandir> seb128: yeah, which is why I nagged Kamion about it. :-)
[10:56] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: does right-click on the panel do something?
[10:56] <seb128> thank you ;)
[10:57] <Mithrandir> mdke: download http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/doc-fixes/ubuntu-docs_5.10-6.1.tar.gz and http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/doc-fixes/ubuntu-docs_5.10-6.1.dsc ; dpkg-source -x ubuntu-docs_5.10-6.1.dsc ; move that to another place, dpkg-source -x again, do your changes in one of the directories, check that it builds nicely, do a diff -ru directory1 directory2 and put that somewhere I can get at it.
[10:57] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: it focuses the panel, but nothing more, no.
[10:57] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: you might also want to attach the panel with gdb and interrupt it to get an idea of what it's doing
[10:57] <mdke> Mithrandir, ok i'll try that thanks
[10:57] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: 'focus the panel'?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: alt-f3 (which usually focuses my deskbar-applet) also loses focus from the current window, but without focusing deskbar-applet.
[10:58] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: my pterm loses focus.
[10:58] <vuntz_> you shouldn't be able to focus the panel by clicking on it
[10:58] <vuntz_> weird
[10:58] <vuntz_> is this 2.13.5 ?
[10:58] <vuntz_> and are you using metacity?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> no, using openbox
[10:59] <vuntz_> ah
[10:59] <Mithrandir> ii  gnome-panel    2.13.5-0ubuntu3 launcher and docking facility for GNOME 2
[10:59] <Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome bug #2: NotFound
[11:00] <vuntz_> if you can attach to the panel with gdb and get some stack traces to know what it's doing, please do so :-)
[11:00] <Mithrandir> http://pastebin.com/518809
[11:00] <vuntz_> do you know when it started to happen? and what you were doing at this time?
[11:00] <Mithrandir> unsure, but it's not the first time.
[11:00] <vuntz_> apt-get install gnome-panel-dbg :-)
[11:00] <Mithrandir> last time, it went away for a while when I killed it.
[11:01] <seb128> gdm_new_login() ?
[11:01] <vuntz_> (stack trace is corrupted)
[11:01] <seb128> vuntz_: what does it do with gdm stuff?
[11:02] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: http://pastebin.com/518827
[11:02] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: cool
[11:02] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: i386, btw.
[11:02] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: please open a bug in GNOME bugzilla and attach your ~/.recently-used file there
[11:02] <vuntz_> you can move away this file to fix the problem
[11:03] <vuntz_> hrm
[11:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: if you have no GNOME account open a malone bug, I'll forward
[11:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks.
[11:04] <vuntz_> do you always get this stack trace when you interrupt it?
[11:04] <seb128> np
[11:04] <vuntz_> it might mean your ~/.recently-used file keeps being rewritten
[11:05] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: http://pastebin.com/518828 is the new one.
[11:05] <mvo> notify-damon changed the name again to notification-daemon
[11:05] <vuntz_> (or maybe gnome-vfs is buggy and sends a lot of events)
[11:05] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: it's not changed in the last two hours according to stat(1)
[11:06] <vuntz_> does renaming the file help?
[11:07] <Mithrandir> as in, the panel should just fix itself without further ado?
[11:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: did you upload the esound fix yet? I want to do an upload of esound (changing shlibs), but don't want to interfere with yours
[11:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: no, I haven't.  I can give you the patch?
[11:07] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: well, it might just fix the issue, yes :-)
[11:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: works for me, thanks
[11:07] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: well, it haven't fixed itself yet, at least.
[11:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: 'k, I'll find it and put it somewhere for you.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> also, gnome-vfs should grow a multi-hop syntax similar to what tramp uses.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> so you can use ssh-over-ssh transfers.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: is there any more useful debug info I can give you, apart from my .recently_used?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> s/_/-/
[11:12] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: you can strace the process and see if it opens ~/.recently-used a lot of times
[11:12] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: seems to be locked on a futex.
[11:12] <vuntz_> ah
[11:13] <hunger> Damn, I am stupid! Just spend 30min researching why my fan was making so much noise and then realized it is the dishwasher running.
[11:13] <chmj> lol
[11:14] <Mithrandir> lamont: if you could please give-back rhythmbox and gnome-python-extras, that'd be appreciated.
[11:14] <janimo> pitti, do language-pack-XX mo files have priority over the ones installed by specific packages?
[11:15] <pitti> janimo: no, the other way round
[11:15] <janimo> pitti, thanks. and there's no easy way to reduce this duplication of files when they are the same right?
[11:15] <lucas> hi
[11:16] <pitti> janimo: normally there shouldn't be much duplication
[11:16] <pitti> janimo: only if a universe package got moved into main and has never been rebuilt since then
[11:17] <janimo> pitti, do language-packs contain only mo files which are not yet installed by specific packages then?
[11:17] <pitti> janimo: no, they contain all mo files from packages which were in main at the time of the langpack generation
[11:17] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: I'm not sure, but being locked on a futex in the libc looks like a libc issue to me
[11:17] <pitti> elmo: please sync crawl (universe, security update)
[11:19] <janimo> pitti, bu duplication I meant that both a package and the langpack seem to contain the same .mo file
[11:20] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: or something in gnome doing something it shouldn't in a signal handler.  I saw the same issue in gzip some time ago, but that was on an SMP system.
[11:20] <pitti> janimo: yes, that will happen in the corner case I mentioned above
[11:20] <janimo> pitti, for instance langpack-ro has mo files for dpkg sed aptitude ie all main packages since the beginning
[11:21] <janimo> does it mean the langpack was not regenerated ?
[11:21] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: possible, although I don't think there are any signals involved here
[11:21] <pitti> janimo: erm, where's the problem? all of these packages are in main, so their translations should be in the langpack
[11:22] <Kamion> dpkg and aptitude at least are explicitly excluded from stripping because they're used in the installer before language packs are installed
[11:22] <pitti> ah, yes
[11:22] <Kamion> so their translations will indeed be duplicated; that's intentional
[11:22] <pitti> I should probably blacklist them in langpack-o-matic
[11:22] <Kamion> well, it's good to get updates for them
[11:22] <janimo> pitti, no  problem at all I just do not understand whether some mo files are supposed to be installed by both the packages and the langpacks
[11:22] <Kamion> I don't think langpack-o-matic needs to blacklist them
[11:23] <janimo> I see so only the ones used by th e installer have two .mo versions, thanks
[11:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: what description do you want for the bug?  "gnome-panel seems to hang randomly, attaching ~/.recently-used as per IRC discussion"?
[11:23] <Kamion> pitti: we can probably take some of those packages out of the blacklist now that we're using a single-stage installer, actually
[11:24] <Kamion> pitti: at least base-config and passwd can be removed
[11:24] <Kamion> (but at your leisure, no urgency)
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: what about debconf-i18n and apt?
[11:24] <vuntz_> Mithrandir: I think there's a libc6-dbg package, so if you can install it... :-)
[11:25] <Kamion> pitti: translations for apt are still needed in the event that the language pack isn't available on install media
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: oh, I rather do it now, it's trivial
[11:25] <Kamion> pitti: and I think likewise debconf-i18n
[11:25] <pitti> ok, alright
[11:25] <seb128> Mithrandir: yep that's fine, thank you
[11:25] <Kamion> and iso-codes translations are needed at installer build time
[11:25] <seb128> Mithrandir: put the backtrace too the bug too :)
[11:25] <Kamion> so yeah, I think it's just base-config and passwd
[11:26] <pitti> alright, I upload now
[11:28] <Mithrandir> vuntz_: sure, after lunch.
[11:28] <mdke> Mithrandir, diff is here: http://mdke.org/debs/ubuntu-docs.diff Just building it now, but I don't envisage it will have any problems
[11:30] <mdke> Mithrandir, ok it builds
[11:32] <mdke> Mithrandir, lemme know if there are any problems :) thanks
[11:33] <janimo> Kamion, what other files are required to be created for a xubuntu CD, but which are not part of regular deb uploads?
[11:34] <janimo> I think you said the gfxboot logo is one like that
[11:34] <mdke> Mithrandir, oh no, stop the press, that's wrong
[11:39] <Kamion> janimo: yeah, I'll create that though
[11:39] <janimo> Kamion, thanks so that's the only one?
[11:40] <Mithrandir> mdke: coolie; I'll just check the packages a final time, then upload.
[11:40] <mdke> Mithrandir, no hang on, I need to do you another diff
[11:40] <Kamion> janimo: it's the only one I can think of right now, certainly
[11:40] <mdke> Mithrandir, that one was crap
[11:41] <Mithrandir> mdke: *sigh*, ok. :-/
[11:41] <mdke> disregard it entirely
[11:41] <mdke> sorry
[11:41] <ssdo> how implemented is gstreamer0.10 in dapper flight3? I have in my synaptic both gstreamer0.8 and the gstreamer0.10, which among them i am using?
[11:42] <dholbach> ssdo: both
[11:42] <dholbach> ssdo: some packages didn't make the transition yet
[11:42] <ssdo> ok...so gstreamer0.10 then is not that ported in dapper 3 then...
[11:43] <dholbach> ssdo: yes, some pieces are not ported yet
[11:43] <HiddenWolf> ssdo: totem, sj and rhytmbox use 0.10, the rest uses 0.8
[11:43] <HiddenWolf> afaik
[11:43] <ssdo> my rythmbox does not play mp3 format...hows this?
[11:44] <HiddenWolf> Because it's not fully ported, and/or you'r missing codecs
[11:44] <HiddenWolf> Then again, don't use mp3 where you can avoid it.
[11:44] <ssdo> ok...so for now if I want to play mp3's i will have to use beep or xmms...
[11:45] <dholbach> ssdo: check the gstreamer plugins you have installed.
[11:45] <ssdo> hiddenwolf: yes..i am converting many of them into oggs. read in the forums about coverting mp3s to oggs..
[11:45] <dholbach> But this is more of a #ubuntu discussion.
[11:46] <ssdo> ok sorry for intruding...be back to #ubuntu discussion,,,
[11:46] <ssdo> thanks a lot
[11:46] <dholbach> Don't worry. :)
[11:46] <mdke> Mithrandir, ok http://mdke.org/debs/ubuntu-docs.diff is right. 1000 apologies
[11:46] <Mithrandir> mdke: ok, you're happy now?
[11:47] <mdke> Mithrandir, very
[11:47] <Chipzz> evolution-plugins, gnome-applets, python-gst and serpentine are the packages I have installed that still need to be ported
[11:48] <Chipzz> but more importantly: gstreamer 0.10 has allmost no plugins yet
[11:48] <seb128> Chipzz: gstreamer0.10-python has been accepted 10 days ago
[11:48] <seb128> Chipzz: gnome-applets/serpentine have patches/have been ported upstream
[11:48] <seb128> and the evo plugin is a detail
[11:49] <Chipzz> # apt-get install gstreamer0.10-python
[11:49] <Chipzz> Reading package lists... Done
[11:49] <Chipzz> Building dependency tree... Done
[11:49] <Chipzz> E: Couldn't find package gstreamer0.10-python
[11:49] <Chipzz> or am I doing something dumb? ;P
[11:50] <dholbach> Chipzz: accepted 10 minutes ago.
[11:50] <Chipzz> ah minutes, not days ;P
[11:50] <seb128> Chipzz: source package != binary package ...
[11:50] <dholbach> oh, /me misread
[11:50] <seb128> Chipzz: sudo apt-get install python-gst0.10
[11:50] <seb128> Chipzz: apt-cache search gst python too
[11:50] <seb128> apt-cache can be useful
[11:51] <seb128> (I'll not comment on the dumb part :)
[11:51] <Chipzz> seb128: ah ok now I see... serpentine uses python-gst
[11:52] <Chipzz> it's early for my - brain not fully booted yet
[11:52] <seb128> when I say "upstream" that's to make the difference with the distro
[11:52] <Chipzz> I know what upstream is ;)
[11:53] <Chipzz> what I wanted to point out was that serpentine doesn't need a recompile if you rename python-gst0.10 to python-gst (which you probably cant do :P)
[11:53] <seb128> that's a wrong assumption
[11:53] <seb128> the API have changes
[11:54] <seb128> changed
[11:54] <seb128> that's not a matter to use one of the other, you have to rewritte the code
[11:54] <Mithrandir> mdke: ok, ubuntu-docs as well as kubuntu/edubuntu stuff uploaded to breezy-updates.
[11:54] <seb128> so to Depends on one specific version
[11:54] <Chipzz> I know about api changes, but most of them should be transparant, no?
[11:55] <seb128> no
[11:55] <Chipzz> ;)
[11:55] <HiddenWolf> Chipzz: check the bugs on gnome bugzilla to see how much trouble it is. :)
[11:56] <mdke> Mithrandir, you are truly a wizard, thanks so much for doing that
[11:56] <Mithrandir> mdke: let's just hope I didn't make it all blow up in interesting ways first. :-)
[11:57] <mdke> Mithrandir, i'm sure it is fine. Do we need to get someone to remove my previous upload to breezy-updates (via dholbach) of that package?
[11:57] <mdke> maybe it is already deleted
[11:57] <seb128> Chipzz: the patch for serpentine to change from python-gst to 0.10 is a 589 liner
[11:57] <Mithrandir> mdke: not if it was rejected.  I'll see if I see a reject soon
[11:57] <Chipzz> ieks
[11:57] <mdke> Mithrandir, it was uploaded in december but I don't know whether it was rejected or not
[11:57] <Chipzz> I'ld expect a smaller patch for a high-level language like python
[11:59] <janimo> pitti, when I talked about duplication I wasn't aware of pkgstriptranslations and that .debs are stripped of mo files. Now the picture is a bit clearer :)
[11:59] <seb128> Chipzz: API change is API change, whatever the language is
[11:59] <janimo> any hope that mozilla and ooo will use gettext?
[12:01] <lifeless> seb128: so how do I unbreak my gnome icons ?
[12:02] <seb128> lifeless: what is broken?
[12:02] <lifeless> volume control, show/hide all windows, trash
[12:02] <Mithrandir> mdke: RN [  10: Ubuntu Installer       ]  ubuntu-docs_5.10-6.1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[12:03] <seb128> lifeless: how broken? what theme do you use? svg one? is librsvg2-common installed?
[12:03] <mdke> Mithrandir, that is your one? rock
[12:04] <Mithrandir> yeah, it's mine
[12:04] <lifeless> seb128: yes thats installed, though there is a pending update
[12:05] <lifeless> how broken ? red X with a white page behind them
[12:05] <lifeless> uhm, my blue one from waaay back
[12:06] <seb128> lifeless: what icon theme is that?
[12:07] <lifeless> uhm let me see
[12:07] <lifeless> theblues-gtk2-saphire
[12:07] <lifeless> oh thats controls
[12:07] <lifeless> 'default' icons
[12:08] <seb128> does changing the icon theme make a difference?
[12:08] <lifeless> yes
[12:09] <lifeless> I clicked on flat-blue and the DEFAULT line disappeared
[12:09] <lifeless> thanks
[12:09] <seb128> np
[12:09] <seb128> seems you were using a theme which is not available/got uninstalled or something
[12:10] <lifeless> yah
[12:10] <lifeless> its a pity its not easier for us gnome-ignorant to figure out
[12:11] <seb128> right, it should make clear that you theme you try using is not available
[12:12] <seb128> Kamion: could you give a retry to rhythmbox/gnome-python-extras now than libtotem-plparser1 has been accepted?
[12:15] <Riddell> Mithrandir: kubuntu-docs rejected?
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: hmm, did I mess up something in the upload
[12:15] <Mithrandir> ?
[12:15] <Kamion> seb128: done
[12:16] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll look at it.
[12:24] <pitti> sivang: make a temporary copy or use a queue instead
[12:24] <pitti> s/instead/in addition/
[12:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: would you mind forcing a retry of rhythmbox and gnome-python-extras, I'd be grateful
[12:26] <sivang> pitti: created a temporary copy already, I'll go check if a queue is better
[12:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: already done, see above
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh, sorry, thanks.
[12:29] <sivang> pitti: http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-Queue.html ?
[12:30] <pitti> sivang: might even be a bit too heavy; can't you iterate over an array while append()ing to it?
[12:30] <sivang> pitti: that's what I did :) thanks
[12:33] <sivang> pitti: does "Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.Hal was not provided by any .service files
[12:33] <sivang> pitti: mean that hald couldn't not be started when queried?
[12:33] <pitti> sivang: hm, hald is not running?
[12:34] <sivang> pitti: no, but I want to trap this error , to ive a proper msg to a user
[12:34] <sivang> pitti: I killled it intentionally
[12:34] <pitti> ah, I see
[12:34] <sjoerd> sivang: system bus services are never automagically started
[12:36] <sivang> sjoerd: ah, I confused that with libnotify, where when you kill the notify-daemon, it starts up automagically when you attempt sending a notifciation. (at least by testing from the examples in the src)
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what was the kubuntu-docs reject message?
[12:37] <sjoerd> sivang: right, that's because it works on the session bus :)
[12:39] <Riddell> Mithrandir: From: Debian Installer <installer@ftp-master.debian.org>
[12:39] <Riddell> To: Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com>,
[12:39] <Riddell>         Ubuntu Documentation Team <ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com>
[12:40] <Riddell> Mithrandir: did you upload to debian?
[12:40] <Riddell> Rejected: Unknown distribution `breezy-updates'.
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Riddell: apparently.  Thanks.
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Riddell: reuploading now.
[12:42] <seb128> lunch, good idea
[12:43] <sivang> pitti: interesting, has error behavior changed recently for dbus? (I think I'm getting different exception class now)
[12:43] <pitti> no clue
[12:43] <sivang> pitti: k
[12:48] <Mez> Who's the listmaster around here?
[12:48] <Mithrandir> yay, ubuntu-desktop installable on ppc and i386 again.. now I just need amd64 to build rhythmbox and we're set.
[12:50] <pitti> Mez: jdub 
[12:50] <tseng> Mithrandir++
[01:29] <Diziet> How long should I expect to wait for a reply from Malone, when I send it an email ?
[01:30] <pitti> Diziet: last time, it took about 3 minutes for me
[01:36] <Diziet> And is it ` status fix-released' or ` status fix released' or something else ?
[01:47] <pitti> mjg59: ping
[01:56] <sivang> anyone idea why I am getting:
[01:56] <sivang> Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.Hal was not provided by any .service files
[01:56] <sivang> ?
[01:57] <sivang> (hald is down, intentionally, and I'm trying to GetALlDevices() from it by python)
[02:10] <pitti> sivang: well, you get it because there is no process behind org.fd.Hal, what's the surprise?
[02:10] <pitti> sivang: hald is the process that implements the org.fd.Hal service
[02:10] <sivang> pitti: it didn't do that a couple of upgrades before , that's all :)
[02:10] <pitti> hm, maybe new dbus 0.60 semantics
[02:12] <ogra> seb128, if you find a minute to have a look at bug #29404 during the day and give an opinion, that would be nice 
[02:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29404: "gdm should support alternate config file for cdd branding" Fix req. for: gdm (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29404
[02:12] <seb128> ogra: yeah, I've noticed it, will do
[02:12] <ogra> thanks :)
[02:13] <janimo> ogra \o/
[02:13] <ogra> :)
[02:13] <janimo> was about to ping you about it today ;)
[02:13] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you please get edubuntu-desktop installable again soon?
[02:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, yup
[02:13] <pitti> ogra, mjg59: new hal with privilege separation code uploaded; in principle it can now execute power management stuff (well, system.d/hal.conf still needs to adapt the policy to libpam-foreground)
[02:14] <janimo> ogra we need to set up alternatives for that file I suppose?
[02:14] <sivang> pitti: wow, already finished? :)
[02:14] <ogra> pitti, so lets see if hughsies patch works to make g-p-m not crash for us :)
[02:14] <ogra> (just working on that))
[02:15] <pitti> sivang: well, sjoerd did the bulk work, I  only integrated the patch and minimized privileges of various parts
[02:15] <janimo> ogra, does /etc/issue say ubuntu for derivatives too?
[02:15] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[02:15] <ogra> janimo, dunno, i'd rather look at lsb_relese
[02:16] <ogra> *release
[02:16] <Kamion> lsb-release says ubuntu for derivatives too
[02:16] <Kamion> the only difference in derivatives is that you have different packages installed; those packages should take care of whatever they need
[02:19] <sivang> pitti: cool :)
[02:20] <Mithrandir> can we make debtags not try to connect to debtags.alioth. on installation?
[02:23] <enrico> Mithrandir: many people asked already
[02:24] <enrico> Mithrandir: I'm planning to look into a smart way of generating an initial database without connecting on network
[02:24] <enrico> Mithrandir: I was planning of doing it in February, though, as I have a work to finish on January
[02:24] <enrico> Mithrandir: if someome is in a hurry for it and would like to do it, I'd be happy to share my plan for it
[02:25] <enrico> Mithrandir: basically, the idea is to provide a --no-download commandline option to debtags that will force it to use the cached versions of the data files, without downloading them from the net, to rebuild the database
[02:25] <Mithrandir> enrico: why can't you package the data files up and have it depend on debtags-data or something?
[02:26] <enrico> Mithrandir: the data files ARE packaged.  And debtags does use them if the network is missing.
[02:26] <enrico> Mithrandir: the binary database needs to be generated, and that's why I run debtags update in postinst
[02:26] <Mithrandir> enrico: ah, ok.
[02:27] <enrico> Mithrandir: I've been asked to avoid the download because it slows down an install considerably if the network is slow, and it makes sense
[02:41] <pitti> oh, sh**, I forgot to update alsa-utils to 1.0.10
[02:42] <pitti> Kamion: can you approve UVF exceptions, too, or only mdz?
[02:42] <Kamion> pitti: yes, I can
[02:42] <Kamion> mail me+mdz
[02:42] <pitti> ok, will do, thanks
[02:43] <Mez> Kamion: can you set up new mailing lists?
[02:43] <Kamion> Mez: no, try jdub
[02:43] <Mez> Kamion: np - will wait for mdz to get back - it's not that important atm anyways
[02:43] <Kamion> Mez: mdz != jdub
[02:44] <Mez> lol - I know - but well - I need to speak to mdz about whats going on anyways ;)
[02:45] <mvo> Kamion: what about universe UVF exception for stuff we are upstream for? I would like to upload a new gdebi (direct deb installer)
[02:45] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you'll soon have a shiny set of new live cds.  Please do test them.
[02:47] <Mez> mvo: Process for UVF exceptionsin universe: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000177.html
[02:48] <mvo> Mez: thanks
[02:49] <Mez> mvo: np
[02:50] <Kamion> mvo: goes through the same process, but in general that sort of thing should be OK for a while
[02:50] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[02:51] <sivang> so, I've done "raise Exception('AnError')" from a method, but when trying to catch it I get, NameError: name is not defined.. any idea?
[02:53] <sivang> should I define this this exception as a type rather then raising it on the fly with Exception(..) ?
[02:58] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kubuntu live cds published.  Please test.
[03:03] <dholbach> lamont: can you give back gnucash on amd64? or look up why it was not built according to the buildlogs?
[03:05] <dholbach> lamont: can you additionally please give back lablgl?
[03:23] <mantiena> Kamion, hi
[03:24] <Kamion> mantiena: hello
[03:25] <mantiena> Kamion, what is ubuntu-express status ? Do you have at least partially working GUI installer ?
[03:26] <Kamion> mantiena: I have something working but very flaky and with a horrible UI on my disk; I hope to upload something working and marginally less flaky later this week
[03:27] <Kamion> if you want to know status of things I'm doing, read the dapper development status reports that are posted weekly to ubuntu-devel-announce
[03:29] <zul> Kamion: sorry to bug you but i had to drop the graphics.diff to get the new grub working
[03:29] <Kamion> zul: how come? that comes directly from Debian
[03:29] <Kamion> zul: any chance you could talk with otavio about that?
[03:30] <zul> Kamion: dont remember exactly but it looked like the patch got corrupted or something ill talk to otavio
[03:30] <Kamion> ok
[03:30] <Kamion> I imagine he'll want slightly more detail than that ;-)
[03:30] <Kamion> also, if merge-o-matic is giving you garbage results, try just doing the merge by hand, it's usually not that hard
[03:30] <zul> yeah ill send him a build log 
[03:31] <Kamion> just sending people a build log of packages they didn't produce is rarely all that productive IME
[03:31] <Kamion> at minimum I imagine he'd want the Debian->Ubuntu interdiff
[03:31] <zul> ok cool
[03:31] <Kamion> and you might find that producing that helps ...
[03:35] <Simira> so, Ubuntu got me a job anyway
[03:36] <zul> congrats
[03:37] <Simira> they usually don't take trainees or similar candidates, but my "background with Ubuntu was very interesting"
[03:40] <sivang> Simira: what's your job then ?
[03:41] <sivang> Simira: (and congrets , now you won't have to let tollef travel by his own :) )
[03:42] <Simira> sivang : the place is Linpro. They have support, sertification courses, and several services in Linux. I believe they are largest on Linux services in Norway. At least one of them.
[03:42] <Simira> hehe, I can't travel now, I have to work :p
[03:43] <sivang> Simira: oops, I mis-understood :) but , hey that's more then cool!
[03:43] <sivang> Simira: you're going to provide support and certification help then?
[03:44] <Simira> sivang : a documentation project to start with. They offer all kinds of services, so I might have a future there. They delivere software, projects, support, network/web/database solutions and a lot more.
[03:46] <sivang> Simira: nice, I'm sure you'll do great :)
[03:46] <Simira> sivang : I hope so. I am really excited.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> gaim should have per-target language (for spellchecking), so it doesn't try to parse me talking with Scott as Norwegian.
[03:47] <sivang> heh
[03:58] <mvo> Kamion: notify-daemon changed the name back to notification-daemon. I'll have to change the seeds again to fix that. sorry for the disruption :/
[04:01] <Kamion> ok, assuming it's got a UVF exception
[04:03] <mvo> Kamion: it got one (seb128 asked about it at the end of last week)
[04:04] <lamont> dholbach: libgl-dev "pretend-avail"ed
[04:05] <Kamion> mvo: ok then
[04:05] <Kamion> sivang: yes, just define a new class for your exception
[04:06] <dholbach> lamont: erm, uhm, do I need to do something about it? I don't quite understand. :-)
[04:07] <lamont> dholbach: if lablgl dies again, it'll need (1) better build-deps and (2) me to clear the bogus ones again.
[04:07] <lamont> if it builds, great.
[04:07] <lamont> but I kinda doubt it will.
[04:07] <dholbach> lamont: i built it in pbuilder.
[04:07] <lamont> as for gnucash, I think that it's b0rked by a soname change - does it install for you?
[04:08] <lamont> dholbach: libgl-dev is a virtual package.. which causes pain.
[04:08] <lamont> specifically: /etc/sbuild.conf:       "libgl-dev"                     => "xlibmesa-gl-dev",
[04:09] <dholbach> I see.
[04:09] <dholbach> I'll try gnucash again later, it built though.
[04:09] <lamont> must get ready and head into town for a thing.
[04:09] <dholbach> lamont: have fun.
[04:09] <lamont> I wish
[04:10] <lamont> anyway, I'll look more deeply at both in about 3.5-4 hours or so.
[04:10] <dholbach> Thanks a lot.
[04:10] <bddebian> Hello
[04:10] <dholbach> hello bddebian
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya Daniel!
[04:32] <ogra> mjg59, new g-p-m for you to play with ...
[04:49] <ogra> does python-gnome2-desktop replace python-gnome2-extras ? 
[05:07] <sbalneav> Morning all
[05:07] <ogra> morning scott
[05:08] <ogra> Kamion, do you have to manually approve gnome-power-manager ? mdz allowed an UVF exception for it until today
[05:09] <Kamion> ogra: if mdz's already approved it, it doesn't need anything from me
[05:09] <ogra> oki, i just dont see it hitting the buildd
[05:10] <Kamion> gnome-power-manager | 0.3.4-0ubuntu1 | dapper/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[05:10] <Kamion> what's the problem?
[05:10] <ogra> i dont see it building, but i'm likely to impatient :)
[05:11] <Kamion> er, that output says it's already built
[05:11] <ogra> hmm, then the buildlogs are out of sync
[05:12] <Kamion> they're only synced every 20 minutes or so and it can take quite a while for them to sync since the directory is huge
[05:12] <ogra> yup
[05:12] <ogra> i'll just wait patiaently ...
[05:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you have the esound patch somewhere?
[05:38] <Mez> elmo: ping
[05:38] <Mez> elmo isnt here :D
[05:38] <Mez> elmo: unping
[05:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: http://err.no/patches/esound-esddsp-threading-fix.diff .  Can you make up a changelog entry?
[05:40] <bddebian> Heya Mez
[05:40] <Mez> bddebian, hey
[05:40] <dholbach> re
[05:40] <doko> dholbach: rationale for 29428?
[05:42] <dholbach> doko: if you refer to vnc, I thought the 'Ubuntu' task was a bit pointless, the 'vnc (Ubuntu)' was enough; I switched back to 'Major', once I realised it was you that filed the bug report.
[05:45] <doko> dholbach: I'm ok to leave it at severity normal, if pitti wants to support us with XFree86 4.2 security updates for the release  ;-P
[05:45] <dholbach> Arg.
[05:45] <ogra> lol
[05:47] <ogra> ajmitch, whats up with zope3 and python2.4-mechanize ?
[05:54] <ogra> lamont, can you give back dia ? builds fine in a pbuilder, looks like libgtk2.0 and its -dev were out of sync last try ...
[05:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: do you want to take the kbd-chooser merge, since I suspect you have local modifications to kbd-chooser anyway? (merges ought to be done by Thursday, though, so if it's going to take longer, I can do it)
[05:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, I can do it.
[06:02] <Kamion> it's yours, thanks
[06:03] <sivang> morning mdz 
[06:03] <bddebian> Heya sivang
[06:04] <sivang> hey bddebian , how are you?
[06:05] <neuralis_> mdz: hi. according to the latest dev status meeting, you feel community server testing can start immediately; is there anything you need from me before you feel comfortable approving the spec?
[06:05] <bddebian> sivang: Not bad thanks. You?
[06:06] <sivang> bddebian: pretty good, hacking on some python classes, nice to see how I get pieces together to form a working code.
[06:07] <bddebian> :-)
[06:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks; sure
[06:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: care to kick it in Debian's direction too?  I think the patch isn't complete, but it does at least solve the "esound falls over immediately".
[06:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: sure
[06:36] <Mithrandir> thanks
[06:36] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, once dia is rebuilt, edubuntu-desktop should be fine again
[06:37] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: what about zope and such?
[06:37] <ogra> Mithrandir, that only holds back edubuntu-server, not used on the livecd
[06:37] <Mithrandir> true dat.
[06:38] <ogra> :)
[06:38] <Mithrandir> I guess I should go and break casper, then? ;-)
[06:38] <ogra> as you like, your baby ... :)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> I could fix the "network interfaces are not configured on the live cd" bug.
[06:40] <ogra> cool :)
[06:48] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: could you please promote gnome-python-desktop to main? (gnome-python-extras was split into gnome-python-extras and gnome-python-desktop upstream) - gedit wants it already and I'll review the other rdepends asap
[06:48] <ogra> oh, transition ? 
[06:48] <dholbach> ogra: some bits went here, some bits went there - the list of rdepends is around 20 packages, so it's a "small transition" only
[06:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: could you give me a short explanation about how the absence of locking caused a crash?
[06:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. did ffox try to call esddsp twice, or anything?
[06:49] <ogra> dholbach, i'm sure there is more 
[06:50] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, please do
[06:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: this function looks so utterly innocent...
[06:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: it tried to initialize multiple times, and since it has global variables which are twiddled as part of the initialization, things went boom
[06:51] <dholbach> ogra: aha?
[06:51] <ogra> dholbach, oh, its only -extras ? 
[06:53] <Amaranth> ogra: gnome-python-extras split into two thigns
[06:53] <Amaranth> things
[06:59] <siretart> what was the workaround for the installation problem with netinstall and libesd-alsa0 colliding with libesd0?
[07:00] <pitti> siretart: what is the offending package with a libesd0-only dependency?
[07:00] <Kamion> siretart: regenerate breezy Packages lists to make kubuntu/edubuntu un-netinstallable again
[07:01] <siretart> pitti: libesd-alsa0: collides: libesd0 but 0.2.34-1ubuntu5 is to be installed
[07:01] <Kamion> need to bug elmo, I see that still hasn't been done
[07:01] <pitti> siretart: I know, the conflict is correct
[07:01] <siretart> Kamion: err, sorry? I'm trying to netinstall a preseeded ubuntu and using archive.ubuntu.com (using apt-cacher, though)
[07:01] <Kamion> siretart: another workaround is to preseed base-config
[07:01] <pitti> siretart: but there is a package which depends on libesd0 instead of libesd0|libesd-alsa0?
[07:01] <Kamion> siretart: yeah, I know, breezy was broken and we all lose
[07:02] <siretart> Kamion: I know I read the workaround for preseeding base-config, but I don't remember what I exactly need to put in
[07:02] <Kamion> siretart: preseed base-config/package-selection=~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^ubuntu-desktop$
[07:02] <Kamion> or 'base-config base-config/package-selection string ~t^ubuntu-standard$|~t^ubuntu-desktop$' if in a preseed file
[07:03] <siretart> Kamion: Thanks, I'll try
[07:03] <Kamion> btw, confirmation that this is fixed in dapper would be good - I'm pretty sure it is, but haven't actually made sure
[07:05] <siretart> will do as soon as I get this setup here fixed
[07:05] <siretart> we are 'upgrading' our automated d-i setup from sarge to breezy, but I intend to install dapper automatically as well
[07:06] <\sh> hmm..does anyone know why savane is not available as official package for debian or ubuntu?
[07:11] <Kamion> dholbach: done
[07:11] <dholbach> Kamion: merci beaucoup.
[07:37] <Mez> woah!
[07:37] <Mez> I'm actually impressed by one of those emails that tries to trick you into installing a virus/getting you to do somethine
[07:38] <Mez> It's like - I almost got tricked by it
[08:04] <sivang> 52checking
[08:04] <sivang> err, ECHANNEL
[08:29] <Kamion> dholbach: shouldn't python*-gnome2-extras depend on python*-gnome2-desktop to make partial upgrades work properly?
[08:30] <dholbach> Kamion: it's the other way around - -desktop wants -extras and I just uploaded packages, which grab -desktop, if they need it
[08:32] <Kamion> really? I thought stuff moved from -extras to -desktop
[08:32] <Kamion> which would indicate that -extras should depend on -desktop to make sure the latter gets pulled in on upgrades
[08:33] <Kamion> (e.g. unpackaged third-party programs that use the bindings)
[08:34] <dholbach> they moved stuff to -desktop which is not always needed (like gtop, nautilusburn), we wouldn't like to depend all those packages on it
[08:42] <Amaranth> dholbach: no, they moved things to desktop which wrap things that are in the desktop suite
[08:43] <dholbach> Amaranth: Yes, but effectively are not used that often (8 of 22 source packages did). :)
[08:43] <dholbach> so we're both right.
[08:43] <seb128> dholbach, Kamion: right, gnome-python-extras stuff have been moved to a new -desktop
[08:44] <seb128> Kamion is right on partial upgrade
[08:44] <dholbach> What do you suggest to do?
[08:44] <seb128> but I think it sucks to force people to install a zillion of extra stuff
[08:45] <Amaranth> hey, while we're talking about g-p-e and such, the way redhat handles it is really nice
[08:45] <Amaranth> they break all the pieces up into separate packages
[08:45] <seb128> Amaranth: a binary by module? np
[08:45] <seb128> nop
[08:45] <seb128> yeah, that sucks
[08:45] <dholbach> Arg, yes - we had that discussion a while ago.
[08:46] <tseng> gtk-sharp is done nicely
[08:46] <Amaranth> how is it done?
[08:46] <tseng> libgtk-cil, libgnome-cil, libglade-cil
[08:46] <tseng> etc
[08:46] <tseng> so the shlibs are all just so
[09:30] <ogra> hmm, does anyone know if there are libnotify python bindings yet ? 
[09:31] <Kyral> nothing comes up when I search
[09:33] <sivang> ogra: I'm just talking with ChipX86 , Robot101 , and nomed about that :)
[09:33] <sivang> ogra: nomed has some nice wrapper made ontop of dbus, that can be used to achive almost the same
[09:34] <ogra> i dont have a real need for dbus here, i just want a bubble connected to an icon 
[09:34] <sivang> ogra: I'm interested in doing something like, but I will try first to do something local for home-user-backup, then when I'm done with it and have more time, I am going to try writing somethign like that..will be a nice experience
[09:35] <ogra> yup
[09:35] <sivang> ogra: then better use a premade C bin, and call it from your python code..
[09:35] <slomo> ogra: you can use the dbus interface... it's really simple
[09:35] <ogra> nah, i can live without a bubble, would just have been a nice add on
[09:35] <sivang> ogra: otherwise I think its only send up a notificatio up the bus to notify-daemon 
[09:36] <sivang> ogra: what is it that you need a bubble for?
[09:36] <ogra> slomo, any doc about this ?
[09:36] <slomo> ogra: not really :/ you could take a look at service-discovery-applet for an example...
[09:36] <ogra> oki, will do
[09:36] <slomo> ogra: but the current version in dapper needs a patch for the new API... only some parameters have changed... i'll upload it tomorrow
[09:37] <slomo> ah well, i could do it now ;)
[09:39] <bddebian> slomo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:39] <sivang> ogra: http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/dss/dss-main/nomed/trunk/Nomed/utils/notification.py?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[09:40] <sivang> ogra: that prooved to be interesting for my notifications :)
[09:41] <Burgwork> sivang, how is the home user stuff going?
[09:41] <sivang> Burgwork: progressed some bits today :)
[09:41] <Burgwork> sivang, not working crazy hours any more?
[09:41] <slomo> hi bddebian :)
[09:42] <sivang> Burgwork: not for the time being, we released the work product today 
[09:42] <sivang> Burgwork: care to do some testing for me?
[09:42] <Burgwork> sivang, sure, but not a for a few days
[09:42] <sivang> Burgwork: ok, ping me up when you have time
[09:42] <Burgwork> sivang, I am snowed in under writing projects
[09:42] <slomo> sivang: yes, that does the same as we use in s-d-a :) but much easier to read because of less distracting stuff ;)
[09:46] <sivang> slomo: :) I acutally have the author   
[09:46] <mjg59> piRock
[09:46] <mjg59> ogra: Also rock
[09:46] <slomo> sivang: what?
[09:47] <sivang> slomo: I had network latency :)
[09:47] <slomo> sivang: ah ok :)
[09:47] <sivang> slomo: I talked to the author of that one, so I t was a bit easier to understand.
[09:47] <sivang> slomo: what file in s-d-a there's the dbus communication code?
[09:48] <ogra> mjg59, i adopted the gdm-signal stuff for now, i can remove it again if you want to rule everything by hal in the future
[09:51] <slomo> sivang: src/service-discovery-applet.in
[09:51] <slomo> sivang: it's easy to understand but dbus initialization etc are somewhere else
[09:52] <sivang> slomo: yes, I see the code is a bit cleaner
[09:53] <sivang> slomo: but it doesn't use callbacks for notification, am I right?
[09:54] <slomo> sivang: callbacks for what? it just calls the dbus function to show a nice bubble when it gets an avahi event :)
[09:59] <mjg59> ogra: Can you switch it back to hal for now? The necessary code is there now
[09:59] <sivang> slomo: I need some callbacks there :) I'll just try to merge the best of both code bases :)
[09:59] <ogra> will do
[10:00] <slomo> sivang: where do you use callbacks for what reason? ;)
[10:03] <mjg59> ogra: Might need a tiny bit of tidying up in hal, but I'll sort that
[10:03] <ogra> mjg59, it didnt work when i tried, thats hy i switched ... i'll upload the fix tonight.
[10:04] <lamont__> hrm.. so how do I kick X so that it will notice the mouse again...
[10:05] <lifeless> doko_: we have a patch for python that niemeyer is digging out
[10:05] <lifeless> doko_: its a difflib problem that is affecting our imported archives conversion to bzr...
[10:06] <lifeless> doko_: we need to get a python in the dc with that included rolled out - whats the easiest way to get such a package to elmo ?
[10:07] <lifeless> doko_: niemeyer says hes going to commit it to svn, if that helps
[10:08] <doko_> lifeless: that would be nice, I'll fetch it from svn then
[10:08] <doko_> lifeless, elmo: which distribution? breezy?
[10:12] <sivang> slomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
[10:16] <lifeless> doko_: breezy
[10:17] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:20] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:29] <lamont__> seb128: ping
[10:29] <seb128> lamont__: pong
[10:39] <dholbach> Have a nice evening.
[11:40] <sivang> night all