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[12:34] <keherman> hey guys, seems like the blackbox package is broken
[12:35] <keherman> get dpkg error when installing, so i could file a bug -- but not sure if you guys have seen it
[12:35] <Burgwork> keherman, please file a bug on it
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[12:36] <crimsun> nothing on malone for that source
[12:53] <keherman> Burgwork, bug #29503, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/29503, "Blackbox fails to install if Fluxbox is also installed due to shared /usr/bin/bsetroot"
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29503: "Blackbox fails to install if Fluxbox is also installed due to shared /usr/bin/bsetroot" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29503: "Blackbox fails to install if Fluxbox is also installed due to shared /usr/bin/bsetroot" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29503
[12:53] <Burgwork> keherman, thanks
[12:54] <keherman> :-)
[12:57] <Kamion> bug #29502 is a duplicate of that, right?
[12:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29502: "Blackbox fails to install if Fluxbox is also installed due to shared /usr/bin/bsetroot" Fix req. for: blackbox (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29502
=== Kamion marks it thus
[12:58] <Burgwork> Kamion, I thought that LP bug about duplicating bugs had been squashed
[12:58] <Kamion> ? ECONTEXT
[12:58] <keherman> Burgwork, when i entered the bug into bugzilla, launchpad produced an error
[12:58] <Burgwork> Kamion, sometimes LP doubles up bugs like that, likely due to the reporter clicking enter twice
[12:59] <Burgwork> Kamion, I reported it and thought it was fixed
[12:59] <Kamion> Burgwork: the text was sufficiently different that that didn't seem to be the case
[12:59] <keherman> Burgwork, i clicked the BACK button to retry -- but there was definitely an error
[12:59] <Burgwork> Kamion,  ah
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[01:54] <Riddell> Mithrandir: kubuntu live CD looking nice
[01:55] <keherman> Can some dev tell me how to locate where "Sound an audible bell" is being stored for the sound settings?  Is there some source I can grep somewhere which would have this info?
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Ubuntu 5.10 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/newsitems/release510 | Flight CD 3 released | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Kamion at Mon Jan 16 17:04:02 2006
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[02:57] <mjg59> Ngh.
[02:57] <mjg59> Is anyone able to explain the libpam-runtime conffile handling to me?
[02:59] <psusi> ohhh snap... the new thunderbird 1.5 in dapper just exited with no error message when I tried to reply to a message
[03:00] <psusi> didn't even get a bug buddy or anything
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[03:02] <mjg59> BenC: Around?
[03:02] <BenC> mjg59: vaguely
[03:04] <mjg59> BenC: Was the /etc/pam.d/common-* stuff after you were involved?
[03:04] <BenC> yeah, way after me
[03:05] <mjg59> Right, I probably need to find Sam, then
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[03:29] <mjg59> Sorted
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[03:29] <AlinuxOS> hello, someone knows... what package generates /usr/share/applications with files with *.desktop sufix ? I need to translate some things...
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[03:56] <LaserJock> AlinuxOS: the .desktop files are created by the packages they are for
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[04:19] <mjg59> I've uploaded hal, dbus, pam and libpam-foreground
[04:19] <mjg59> If people install all of those, then gnome-power-manager should work
[04:19] <psusi> mjg59, hey... hal-set-property is _supposed_ to work from inside a callout isn't it?
[04:20] <mjg59> I've no idea, I'm afraid
[04:20] <psusi> blast...
[04:20] <mjg59> But the privilege separation code is in now
[04:20] <mjg59> So you can get stuff run as root
[04:20] <psusi> I could do that with suid before ;)
[04:20] <ogra> mjg59, will test tomorrow, it seems the packages arent in the archive yet ...
[04:20] <psusi> problem is hal-set-property can't seem to connect to hal from inside the callout
[04:21] <psusi> if I fork it in a background pipeline, it works, but it has to be done within the script or other fdi policies can't match on the properties it sets ( since it checks them before they are ever set )
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[04:24] <mjg59> ogra: I've been uploading stuff over the past couple of hours. It should all hit soon.
[04:24] <mjg59> ogra: Works fine here now, in any case
[04:24] <ogra> yes, but its 4:30 and i should get some sleep :)
[04:24] <ogra> GF looks unhappy :)
[04:24] <mjg59> Heh
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[04:52] <wasabi__> Don't suppose there is a nice gnome pptp config utiolity available yet?
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[07:16] <dholbach> good morning
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[08:46] <ulaas> hi. is X still broken or it is me?
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[08:52] <mdke> ulaas, it's you
[08:53] <Mithrandir> ulaas: what's the problem you see?
[08:53] <ulaas> mdke: you are direct :)
[08:53] <ulaas> Mithrandir:give me a sec
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[08:55] <fabbione> who is supposed to make a new enigmail for new thunderbird?
[08:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: infty, I guess
[08:56] <fabbione> ok
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[08:57] <ulaas> Mithrandir: it is like it was before. somethig like xauth -notcp -blah blah blah could not execute command..... i think i need to reinstall x. how do i apt-do it?
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[08:58] <Mithrandir> ulaas: do you have ubuntu-desktop installed?
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[08:58] <ulaas> Mithrandir: hmm no. and i dont know why not.
[08:59] <Mithrandir> ulaas: install that (and by extension, x-window-system-core) and you should be fine.
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[09:00] <ulaas> Mithrandir: already getting. thanx. will there be any other transtions on x?
[09:00] <Mithrandir> ulaas: I hope not.
[09:00] <pitti> Good morning
[09:00] <ajmitch_> morning pitti 
[09:00] <ulaas> Mithrandir: well. if it is for dapper. i would love a thousand more ;)
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[09:17] <poningru> will firefox 1.5.0.1 make it into dapper?
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[09:25] <pitti> mjg59: meh, the scripts were already installed into /usr/lib/hal, and we don't want them all; but I agree that share is better, I'll fix that
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[09:31] <janimo> dholbach, ping
[09:31] <dholbach> janimo: pong
[09:31] <janimo> hey, is putting tango-icon theme pkgconfig file is usr/share intended?
[09:31] <janimo> others are in usr/lib
[09:32] <dholbach> oh it is?
[09:32] <janimo> gnome-icon-theme puts it there too so there may be a reason
[09:32] <janimo> usr/share/pkgconfig and usr/lib/pkgconfig
[09:32] <janimo> maybe icon themes should be there since they are not libs?
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[09:33] <dholbach> Mithrandir: is any stuff supposed to be in /usr/share/pkgconfig?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> dholbach: arch:all packages with .pc files should stuff them there.
[09:34] <dholbach> Ah cool.
[09:34] <janimo> aha :)
[09:34] <dholbach> Thanks
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[09:34] <Mithrandir> np
[09:41] <pitti> Kamion: Good morning! could you already take a look at the alsa-utils changelog?
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[09:46] <pitti> meh, why has the sftp:// semantics of bzr changed *again*?
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[09:51] <Kinnison> pitti: They've been made sane, instead of correct
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[10:00] <pitti> Kinnison: how can I specify a directory relative to ~ now?
[10:00] <pitti> and sftp://host//absolute/dir wasn't so insane IMHO *sigh*
[10:01] <Kinnison> I *think* it's sftp://hostname/~/blah
[10:01] <Kinnison> sftp://hostname/absolute/dir makes more sense to me
[10:01] <Kinnison> the need for a double-slash broke too many people's brains
[10:01] <pitti> well, it's not what I'm used to with ssh
[10:01] <pitti> hm, maybe
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[10:02] <Kinnison> pitti: I assume you mean scp, and that uses : as the host/path separator
[10:02] <Kinnison> pitti: so it's hardly a fair comparison
[10:03] <Kinnison> hostname:relative/path hostname:/absolute/path is much easier to understand than hostname/relative/path and hostname//absolute/path
[10:04] <mdke> Mithrandir, did ubuntu-docs fail to build? It hasn't hit breezy yet
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[10:05] <pitti> Kinnison: hm, maybe bzr should use the colon then :)
[10:05] <Mithrandir> mdke: doesn't seem to have been tried at all yet.
[10:05] <Kinnison> pitti: It's not a URL in that form
[10:05] <Kinnison> pitti: Or at least, not one that people would recognise
[10:05] <Kamion> Kinnison: er, have they been changed again after 0.7? because I thought 0.7 used //absolute
[10:06] <Kinnison> pitti: I think it's bad that we switched twice, I think we should never have switched to //absolute
[10:06] <Kinnison> Kamion: Not sure
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[10:06] <Kinnison> Kamion: I use my branch of mainline most of the time so I don't know when the switches were
[10:06] <Kamion> also surely //absolute could still be supported ...
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[10:07] <mdke> Mithrandir, maybe it needs to be pushed through by Kamion/mdz?
[10:08] <Kamion> mdke: yes, breezy-updates requires manual approval
[10:08] <Kamion> pitti: ok, give me a moment
[10:11] <mdke> Kamion, do you have time to look at ubuntu-docs as uploaded by Mithrandir yesterday? It should have fixed all the problems with edubuntu-artwork
[10:13] <Kamion> mdke: I'll do it today, yes
[10:13] <mdke> Kamion, yay, thanks
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[10:19] <dholbach> Hey seb128!
[10:19] <seb128> hi dholbach
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[10:24] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[10:24] <mdz> morning
[10:24] <pitti> mdz: how is London? :)
[10:24] <mdz> miserable
[10:24] <mdz> it's very cold and my mail is fucked
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[10:24] <pitti> uh
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[10:25] <Kamion> mdke: um, so, is 5.10-7 dead now?
[10:25] <Kamion> ubuntu-docs 5.10-6.1 seems to be the thing to actually review
[10:26] <dholbach> seems London is around +20C warmer than Berlin
[10:26] <mdke> Kamion, is that my upload from december? that should be killed yeah
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 5.10-6.1 uploaded by me yesterday is the right one.
[10:26] <Kamion> dunno how to reject from -updates
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[10:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there's a duplicate Conflicts field in ubuntu-docs
[10:26] <Kamion>  Conflicts: ubuntu-quickguide (<< 5.10), ubuntu-faqguide
[10:26] <Kamion> +Conflicts: kubuntu-docs (<< 5.10-0.6.1), edubuntu-artwork (<< 0.1.0-9.1)
[10:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what upgrade combinations have you tested?
[10:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I've tested breezy only.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> I'm unsure how that managed to pass. :-/
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[10:29] <Kamion> dpkg probably picked the second Conflicts field, I guess
[10:30] <Kamion> I don't think it's clever enough to merge them, but ICBW
[10:31] <fabbione> hey mdz
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can fix that easily enough.
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[10:34] <seb128> hi mdz
[10:34] <mdz> morning fabbione, seb128
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[10:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I can't help feeling that kubuntu-docs and edubuntu-artwork ought to use different priorities for the firefox-homepage alternative, but OTOH I can't see a good way to decide which should be higher
[10:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: otherwise, it all looks right to me
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[10:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: apart from the duplicated Conflicts field.
[10:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: so if you give me an ubuntu-docs 5.10-6.2 with that Conflicts bug fixed, I'll approve it
[10:44] <Mithrandir> will do
[10:46] <Kamion> mdz: in lieu of the ability to reject, can you make sure to refrain from processing the obsolete ubuntu-docs 5.10-7?
[10:46] <mdz> yep, I don't intend to be doing any archive processing this week in fact
[10:46] <Kamion> thought not somehow
[10:46] <mdz> we're on the same time zone anyway
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[11:12] <Kamion> mdke, Mithrandir: ok, all approved
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[11:30] <fabbione> doko: ping?
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[11:31] <mvo> mdz: has gdebi (direct deb installer) a exception for UVF because it is part of the ThirdPartyPackages spec? or will I have to ask for approval?
[11:32] <pitti> ogra: do you care about moodle?
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[11:47] <mdz> mvo: it has an exception because upstream is following our release schedule ;-)
[11:47] <tepsipakki> kamion: have you had time to look at #28462 yet?
[11:49] <Kamion> tepsipakki: hm, no, sorry
[11:50] <Kamion> tepsipakki: it does look like it must be a problem with your mirror though; have you tried the same thing with archive.ubuntu.com rather than ubuntu.hut.fi?
[11:50] <Kamion> I can't seem to get to ubuntu.hut.fi from here to have a look
[11:50] <tepsipakki> no I haven't
[11:50] <tepsipakki> true
[11:50] <tepsipakki> it's mirrored with apt-mirror
[11:51] <Kamion> that said - is it actually managing to install anything from universe? I looked down the list logged by pkgsel and couldn't see anything non-main there
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[11:52] <Kamion> archive.ubuntu.com might be worth a try anyway, just to eliminate mirror problems from consideration
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[11:53] <mvo> mdz: isn't it great to have upstreams who follow our cycle ;) thanks!
[11:53] <Kamion> because it does seem to have added universe to sources.list, which is the only plausible point where that could fail
[11:53] <tepsipakki> kamion: well, those "no candidate version found" indicates that it doesn't find them? dlocate, for example is in universe
[11:54] <Kamion> tepsipakki: right, but that could easily be because the universe Packages file is broken
[11:54] <Kamion> e.g. empty
[11:54] <tepsipakki> the mirror works fine after d-i
[11:54] <Kamion> uh
[11:54] <tepsipakki> well, I'll just try a.u.c to be sure ;)
[11:54] <Kamion> oh, give me a second, an idea
[11:54] <Kamion> is this a CD install?
[11:55] <tepsipakki> no, netboot
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[11:55] <Kamion> I bet the CD install handling in apt-setup-udeb.postinst is misfiring
[11:56] <Kamion> yeah, must be
[11:56] <Kamion> ok, I can fix that
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[12:01] <Kamion> tepsipakki: should be fixed in apt-setup 0.4ubuntu6; thanks for the nudge
[12:02] <tepsipakki> great, thanks!
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[12:20] <pitti> Kamion: thanks for the alsa review
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[12:36] <mjg59> pitti: I've uploaded - they didn't seem to be in /usr/lib
[12:38] <pitti> mjg59: nevermind, I cleaned it up now
[12:39] <pitti> mjg59: does the new hal now do what it should for power management?
[12:39] <mjg59> pitti: Oh, cool. Yes.
[12:39] <pitti> mjg59: I tested it with the mount interface, and that worked fine
[12:39] <mjg59> dbus has been fixed, pam has been fixed, g-p-m has been fixed
[12:39] <pitti> but I disabled that because it's horribly flawed
[12:39] <pitti> yay
[12:39] <pitti> mjg59: I'll take another look at pam_fg today and approve the report
[12:39] <pitti> thanks for fixing the bugs
[12:40] <mjg59> Sure
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[12:45] <ogra> pitti, yes, i care for moodle, whats up with it ? 
[12:46] <pitti> ogra: /msg
[12:47] <mjg59> Anyway, as of now g-p-m, pam, libpam-foreground, dbus and hal, everthing works
[12:47] <pitti> mjg59: rock :)
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[01:09] <pitti> Kamion: can you please sync mydns? (security update)
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[01:13] <janimo> mjg59, dbus ftbfs
[01:14] <janimo> previous version was broken too (ubuntu7)
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[01:25] <mjg59> JaneW: Probably not my problem, then
[01:25] <mjg59> NGH IRSSI HATE
[01:27] <mjg59> Oh, it might be my fault
[01:27] <mjg59> I'll fix it later
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[01:29] <JaneW> mjg59: huh?
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[01:30] <mjg59> JaneW: Sorry, misdirected
[01:31] <pitti> :x
[01:31] <StevenK> Hence the irssi hate ....
[01:31] <pitti> whoops, ECHAN
[01:36] <JaneW> oic, np
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[01:39] <ogra> mjg59, its your problem :) it fails applying the console patch ...
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[02:10] <mvo> Kamion: ping
[02:11] <mvo> Kamion: ok for me to do a ubuntu-meta upload now? including your grub,espresso-grub change?
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[02:27] <xulin> hi 
[02:27] <xulin> there is an imporant missing package in alsa .. 
[02:27] <Kamion> pitti: syncs -> elmo please
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[02:27] <pitti> ok
[02:28] <Kamion> mvo: yes
[02:28] <pitti> xulin: which?
[02:28] <stratus> mvo, gdebi 0.1.4 uploaded.
[02:28] <xulin> pitti, alsa plugins .. 
[02:29] <xulin> in 1.0.9 version they make a seperate .tgz in alsa projet for plugins 
[02:30] <pitti> xulin: it's in universe already
[02:30] <pitti> alsa-plugins |   1.0.10-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
[02:31] <xulin> pitti, ah .. great :s .. sorry i don't find it in http://packages.ubuntu.com/ :/ 
[02:31] <pitti> hm, that could be out of date
[02:32] <xulin> non .. it okay packages is .. libasound ..
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[02:32] <xulin> libasound2-plugins
[02:33] <xulin> when i clic : /dapper/universe/libs/libasound2-plugins was not found on this server.
[02:33] <xulin> strange :] 
[02:34] <xulin> libasound2-plugins is present in warty .. hoary .. but nothing in breezy and dapper :/ 
[02:35] <Kamion> it's not in breezy, but:
[02:35] <Kamion> libasound2-plugins |   1.0.10-1 | dapper/universe | amd64, hppa, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:35] <Kamion> I believe packages.ubuntu.com is having problems at the moment
[02:35] <Kamion> oh, and
[02:35] <Kamion> libasound2-plugins |    1.0.9-2 | dapper/universe | i386
[02:35] <pitti> hm, ftbfs then?
[02:36] <xulin> Kamion, ah ok .. if it's present in dapper it's ok :) .. 
[02:36] <xulin> need to go 
[02:36] <pitti> although I see amd64 packages here
[02:36] <xulin> bye
[02:37] <Kamion> pitti: alsa-lib FTBFS on i386
[02:37] <Kamion>         dpkg-shlibdeps -Tdebian/lib64asound2.substvars debian/lib64asound2/usr/lib64/libasound.so.2.0.0
[02:37] <Kamion> /usr/bin/ldd: line 161: /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2: cannot execute binary file
[02:37] <Kamion> dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: ldd on `debian/lib64asound2/usr/lib64/libasound.so.2.0.0' gave error exit status 1
[02:37] <Kamion> check how other biarch libraries do that, I guess
[02:37] <pitti> 'k, I'll check that
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[02:50] <mvo> stratus: thanks, did you merged the latest stuff too?
[02:51] <stratus> mvo, i did the upload yesterday and our trees were in sync, so i guess yes
[02:51] <stratus> mvo, i even applied one or two minor fixes, please sync.
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[02:52] <stratus> mvo, oh no, the fcntl stuff and some others aren't in 0.1.4 upload
[02:54] <stratus> mvo, merging conflicts...
[02:56] <mvo> stratus: no problem :) I should have informed you, sorry
[02:56] <jsgotangco> hi all
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[02:58] <stratus> mvo, np if you think it's urgent (but it seems to be minor) i can upload 0.1.5 tonight
[02:58] <stratus> mvo, merge now, please.
[03:00] <stratus> mvo, can you check if you can reproduce that bug installing gizmo-project package? It's still unreproducible (to me) with 0.1.4.
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[03:10] <zul> morning
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[03:30] <seb128> Kamion: when new libnotify hits NEW please accept/promote it, somebody broke libnotify0 by shipping a new soname without changing the binary package, that's fixed now but apps will not start until they are rebuilt against the new one
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[03:34] <\sh> doko__: pingeling :) are you writing an UVF exception report for https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/29552 ?
[03:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29552: "Include vnc4server for amd64 in dapper. Source deb inside" Fix req. for: vnc (Ubuntu), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[03:35] <Mithrandir> \sh: that is total crack, or at least was it last time I looked at the source
[03:35] <\sh> Mithrandir: that's why I asked doko :) regarding the comment mentioning his nick :)
[03:35] <Keybuk> ok... this is quite depressing; my laptop display is flickering on console
[03:35] <Keybuk> if it breaks just before the sprint, I'm going to be grumpy
[03:36] <Kamion> judging from that diff.gz there's still a complete copy of X inside
[03:37] <\sh> is tightvncserver not enough? 
[03:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: wow, the live CD is actually acceptably quick to boot in qemu now
[03:37] <\sh> I remember the breezy times, when I tried to fix vnc4 to work with gcc-4..and it bitched around a lot
[03:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: scary.
[03:38] <Kamion> takes a while for GNOME to come up, but it gets to X comparably quickly to a real system
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[03:39] <Mithrandir> I assume that's from an ISO image on disk?
[03:39] <Kamion> yeah
[03:40] <Kamion> ok, yeah, I suppose that's cheating a bit
[03:40] <Mithrandir> that gives you approximately zero seek time, but I still find it good.
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[03:49] <dreamind> Hi folks :)
[03:49] <dreamind> can anybody tell me if there is a version of the avm isdn drivers for ubuntu which might be compatible with make-kpkg for debian?
[03:50] <dreamind> because I'm currently building a package of avm's fritz drivers for debian.
[03:50] <dreamind> and I want not to reinvent the wheel
[03:50] <Mithrandir> dreamind: they're already in linux-restricted-modules in Ubuntu
[03:50] <Kamion> ah, hmm, let's try 512MB of memory instead of 128MB, that might help GNOME somewhat
[03:51] <dreamind> Mithrandir: yes I know this, but is it compatible to make-kpkg?
[03:51] <dreamind> and I don't see the source of that somewhere...
[03:51] <Kamion> source package name is linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15
[03:51] <Kamion> in the restricted component, not main
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[03:51] <Mithrandir> dreamind: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/restricted/l/linux-restric
[03:51] <Kamion> it's not exactly in the form you'd need for a Debian module source package, I don't think
[03:52] <Menoz> hi all! I have a problem with remastering! Can someone help me?
[03:52] <Menoz> :)
[03:52] <dreamind> Kamion: ok, then I'll finish my started work, but I'll have a look at them
[03:52] <Kamion> Menoz: what's your problem?
[03:53] <Menoz> thanks Kamion!
[03:53] <Menoz> i'm trying to add/remove some package from install cd
[03:53] <Kamion> (I didn't say I could help)
[03:53] <Menoz> :)
[03:53] <Menoz> but
[03:54] <Kamion> have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo?
[03:54] <Menoz> i've seen that, when I create the file Packages
[03:54] <Menoz> yep
[03:54] <Menoz> but, and also waikato guide :)
[03:55] <Menoz> but my problem remains
[03:55] <Menoz> and it is:
[03:55] <Menoz> when I create the Package file
[03:55] <Menoz> it is significantly smaller than the original one!
[03:56] <Kamion> well that would kind of depend on how you're creating it
[03:56] <Menoz> (obviuously, with the same packages installed)
[03:56] <Menoz> I've seen thatr
[03:56] <Menoz> the Pa] ckages file I create
[03:56] <Kamion> you should use diff between the old and the new versions to see what's missing
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[03:56] <Menoz> yep, I've done it
[03:56] <Menoz> and I've seen
[03:57] <Menoz> that
[03:57] <Menoz> every package
[03:57] <Kamion> could you please hit enter slightly less often? thank you.
[03:57] <Kamion> you're filling up an awful lot of vertical scrollback.
[03:57] <jsgotangco> :D
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[03:58] <Menoz> (pardon) hasn't the lines starting with "Origin:" and "Task:"
[03:59] <Kamion> Origin's unimportant, Task is trickier
[04:00] <Kamion> hm, to be perfectly honest I'd be inclined to approach this by editing the old Packages file in a text editor
[04:00] <Menoz> hum
[04:01] <Kamion> failing that you'd need to generate an ExtraOverride file and put it in your apt-ftparchive configuration
[04:01] <Kamion> the file looks a bit like this:
[04:01] <Kamion> adduser  Task  ubuntu-minimal
[04:01] <Kamion> alacarte  Task  ubuntu-desktop
[04:01] <Kamion> alien  Task  ubuntu-ship
[04:01] <Kamion> should be possible to generate it from the original Packages file
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[04:02] <Kamion> in breezy you'll need Archive-Copier-Set headers too
[04:02] <Menoz> well, I found this link: http://mirrors.xmission.com/ubuntu/indices/ ; could it be useful?
[04:02] <Kamion> no, cdimage regenerates all those on the fly
[04:02] <Menoz> ok. So, do you know how can I generate this file?
[04:02] <Kamion> I don't have a script to do it for you, no
[04:03] <Kamion> I would have to write it, but other less busy people could probably do that too :)
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[04:04] <jp_> im having an issue when m trying to get dapper on an amd 64 box  I got the installer couldn't fin a kernel for the box  what's that?
[04:04] <jp_> thanks"
[04:04] <Menoz> ah, I tought there was a program that do this automagically :)
[04:04] <neuralis> jp_: please ask on #ubuntu; this channel is for development only.
[04:04] <Kamion> Menoz: the CD image generator does it automatically, but it's not at all easy to set up, and it generates images from scratch rather than customising existing ones
[04:05] <Menoz> cd image generator
[04:05] <Menoz> ?
[04:05] <Kamion> you don't want it
[04:05] <Kamion> the code we use to generate images in the first place
[04:06] <mdz> what Kamion is saying is that we don't have a convenient script to do what you want, but it certainly would be nice if someone contributed one
[04:06] <mdz> it should be a very approachable project
[04:06] <Kamion> another useful project would be to make debian-cd put its generated override files onto the CD image so that that script would be unnecessary
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[04:07] <mdz> there would still be call for an "i've added/removed/changed some packages on the CD, fix everything up" script regardless
[04:08] <Kamion> yeah
[04:08] <Menoz> ok, but this problem is solvable in another way, because someone  has customized ubuntu :)
[04:08] <Kamion> it would make the task more approachable though
[04:08] <mdz> Menoz: oh?  it seems entirely possible that they simply wrote the script
[04:08] <Kamion> or just did the last few steps by hand ...
[04:09] <Kamion> hmm, I think Archive-Copier-Set can go away now in dapper
[04:09] <slomo> mdz: hi... do you have any objections against an UVF exception for avahi 0.6.5? it's almost a plain bugfix release but nothing too important was fixed... changelog is here: http://avahi.org/milestone/Avahi.6.5
[04:10] <Menoz> ok, thanks. However, a bash script that does this job isn't toot difficoult to write down
[04:10] <Kamion> Menoz: feel free :-) I suggest documenting the process on InstallCDCustomizationHowTo for the next person
[04:10] <Menoz> ok, good
[04:11] <Menoz> thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:11] <mdz> np
[04:12] <Menoz> sorry: what is the format of this file? (centericq won't let me scroll up )
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[04:13] <Kamion> <package>  <field name>  <field contents>
[04:14] <Kamion> same format as http://mirrors.xmission.com/ubuntu/indices/override.breezy.extra.main, but different contents
[04:14] <Menoz> ok, thanks
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[04:19] <mdz> slomo: no, I don't
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[04:20] <slomo> mdz: ok, thanks... i'll prepare a upload later :)
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[04:24] <Kamion> ok, Archive-Copier-Set cruft dropped for dapper now
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[04:37] <BenC> what good is the suspend option in gnome when it logs you out
[04:37] <BenC> is that supposed to happen?
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[04:49] <Keybuk> BenC: ogra removed the binary that it uses I think
[04:49] <ogra> nope
[04:49] <BenC> is that the gdm-signal thing?
[04:49] <ogra> i did remove the gdm-signal call from g-p-m, i didnt touch gnome-session
[04:50] <ogra> (since g-p-m uses hal for root tasks now)
[04:50] <pitti> Hey Keybuk, how are you?
[04:50] <Keybuk> hmm, I mis-interpreted your changes then :)
[04:50] <Keybuk> I read it as you removed gdm-signal itself
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[04:50] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm good :)
[04:50] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, from the g-p-m code
[04:50] <ogra> (i didnt upload gnome-session or gdm recently :) )
[04:51] <BenC> I haven't tested this in a long time, so it's probably not recent
[04:51] <BenC> just odd that it does a logout before it actually does suspend-to-ram
[04:51] <BenC> I usually just close the lid, so never noticed
[04:51] <Treenaks> BenC: when will the next kernel upload be? (/me misses music from his mac mini :))
[04:52] <ogra> hmm, is the libnotify 0.3.X protocol documented anywhere ? seem the old (pre 0.3) spec is completely obsolete 
[04:52] <BenC> Treenaks: today
[04:52] <Treenaks> BenC: cool!
[04:53] <ogra> i cant convince my popup message to use an icon :/
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[04:57] <verwilst> hellow!
[04:58] <verwilst> i seem to have found some bugs, but not sure to which package to link it to..
[04:58] <verwilst> everytime i reboot, /var/run/clamav, /var/run/avast4 are gone so the daemons don't start
[04:59] <verwilst> and /var/run/mysql has wrong permissions then ( it needs an additional o+rx )
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[04:59] <ogra> verwilst, please file bugs for the apps that misbehave 
[05:00] <verwilst> ogra: well yeah, but maybe it's a cleaning script that misbehaves? ;)
[05:01] <Mithrandir> verwilst: file bugs on the packages.  /var/run is now a tmpfs.
[05:01] <kent> verwilst: there is some bugs regarding the /var/run/* problems in malone already for some services like mysql etc.  Go look and perhaps add a comment.
[05:01] <verwilst> ooh
[05:01] <verwilst> cool
[05:01] <verwilst> okido
[05:01] <verwilst> thanks!
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[05:24] <jsgotangco> good night
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[05:25] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[05:25] <ogra> hey scottie
[05:25] <sbalneav> Hey ogra!
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[05:28] <bddebian> Hello
[05:32] <siretart> why is /var/run now tempfs anyway? what advantage does this bring? so far, I see quite a lot of breakage..
[05:33] <Keybuk> basically solves huge numbers of race conditions
[05:33] <Keybuk> we need *somewhere* writable early in the boot sequence to store pid files, temporary state files, etc.
[05:33] <Keybuk> otherwise we have a chicken-and-egg problem
[05:33] <Keybuk> can't-start-udev-until-we-have-var-run
[05:34] <Keybuk> can't-check-and-mount-root-filesystem-until-we-start-udev
[05:34] <Keybuk> etc.
[05:34] <Keybuk> the only bug it introduces is that some packages assume that they have subdirectories in /var/run with certain attributes
[05:34] <Keybuk> which, granted, the FHS says they're allowed to do
[05:34] <Keybuk> it's trivial to fix though, just a mkdir in the init script
[05:34] <siretart> err, could you please point me to some discussion for what udev needs to write into /var/run?
[05:35] <Keybuk> siretart: dhcp pid files.  network ifstate file.  alsa state files.  etc,.
[05:35] <ogra> there must be irc logs of that discussion
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[05:35] <ogra> it happened either here or in -meeting iirc
[05:36] <Keybuk> it's happened here, then was agreed in a TB meeting
[05:36] <siretart> hm. i see.
[05:36] <Kamion> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-January/000048.html
[05:37] <siretart> hmhmm. would mounting over a unionfs (udev writes to a tempfs, which is unioned over a non-tempfs /var/run) be a solution?
[05:37] <Keybuk> siretart: that's a solution looking for a problem, isn't it?
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[05:37] <siretart> thanks for the link
[05:37] <Keybuk> it's FAR easier to just add a mkdir call in the few places it's still needed
[05:37] <siretart> Keybuk: I'm a bit sceptic about the 'in the few places ... needed' part
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[05:38] <Keybuk> siretart: it's easy to find out, just grep the archive for any package with a /var/run/* in it
[05:38] <Keybuk> there weren't that many
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[05:38] <siretart> Keybuk: will debian use the same approach? can I expect DDs to be happy about such patches?
[05:39] <Keybuk> siretart: no idea, ask DDs
[05:39] <siretart> Keybuk: I think I'm talking to one right now ;)
[05:39] <Keybuk> siretart: most of the packages in -desktop already had such patches from Debian, because people had filed bugs there when they tried the same thing
[05:40] <Kamion> I see no reason why Debian developers would have any issue at all with trivial patches to support /var/run on tmpfs
[05:40] <Kamion> after all, they'd be no-ops if /var/run isn't on tmpfs
[05:40] <siretart> ok. thanks again for the pointer.
[05:40] <Keybuk> I've discussed the /var/run-as-tmpfs thing in Debian before, and it was certainly my impression that most people thought Debian *should* support it
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[05:46] <seb128> doko__: is some python sys.path issue known on dapper atm?
[05:47] <seb128> Kamion: did you accept/promote libnotify1?
[05:49] <Kamion> seb128: not yet, I've had better things to do today than sit polling helena output
[05:49] <Kamion> I'll do it now
[05:49] <Kamion> in future it would be much better if you could only ask me to do something once it's actually built and uploaded
[05:49] <Kamion> or at least built, since I guess you can't tell whether it's uploaded or not
[05:49] <seb128> Kamion: I asked on IRC 2 hours ago when mvo screwed libnotify0, but no big deal, thank you :)
[05:50] <seb128> oh, sure
[05:50] <Kamion> yes, and at that point it wasn't in the queue, nor was it the next time I checked, and then it fell off my stack
[05:50] <seb128> understood, sorry for that
[05:50] <seb128> I'm not sure if stuff points to NEW when they are accepted or built in fact
[05:50] <seb128> that's why I ping after upload usually
[05:51] <Kamion> ok, accepted/promoted now
[05:51] <seb128> thank you!
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[05:51] <Kamion> it hits NEW if the source package name is new
[05:51] <Kamion> (on source upload)
[05:51] <Kamion> if not but some binary package names are new, then it hits NEW after the buildds munch it, when they upload the binaries
[05:52] <seb128> ok, thanks
[05:52] <slomo> Kamion: hi, can you either move xine-extracodecs (with all binary packages) to multiverse or libxine-extracodecs back to universe? currently libxine1c2 in universe depends on libxine-extracodecs and is uninstallable because of that...
[05:52] <seb128> and for new source/binary it hits NEW 2 times so?
[05:52] <Kamion> accepted mails get sent when source uploads hit queue/accepted (implying either that they didn't go through NEW, or that they've just been NEW-approved)
[05:53] <seb128> ok
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[05:53] <seb128> thanks for the explanations on that :)
[05:53] <Kamion> seb128: yes
[05:53] <seb128> doko__: is that known?
[05:53] <seb128> <gicmo> /usr/lib/python2.4/site.py: broken symbolic link to `/etc/python2.4/site.py'
[05:53] <seb128> <gicmo> hmm /etc/phython2.4 is empty
[05:53] <seb128> <gicmo> ii  python2.4-minimal     2.4.2-1ubuntu2        A minimal subset of the Python language (version 2.4)
[05:54] <Kamion> slomo: would prefer if you asked elmo, I hear rumours he wasn't too happy about me accepting -extracodecs but I didn't get the details so I'd rather steer well clear
[05:54] <Mez> is infinity on holiday or something
[05:54] <Kamion> Mez: yes
[05:54] <Kamion> (the former)
[05:54] <slomo> Kamion: ok, i'll send him a mail... is he on vacation or something currently?
[05:54] <Mez> Kamion, ah makes all the more sense why I cant get in contact with him
[05:54] <Mez> when is he due back
[05:55] <Kamion> slomo: perhaps he finds he gets more work done when not on IRC ... a tempting idea actually
[05:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: interesting ... does this mean he'll either avoid sharing a conf. room with you in London or will he try out his alternate idea from Montreal and thus you should be worried if he sits in the same room as you?
[05:55] <Lathiat> irc really is a suck at ties for getting work done
[05:55] <Lathiat> *times
[05:56] <Kamion> Mez: just send him mail, I'm sure he'll get to it when he gets back - I prefer not to give out full details of people's "hi, my house is empty" times in public if they haven't done so themselves
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[05:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: what was his alternate idea? :)
[05:56] <Mez> Kamion: I didn't think of it that way :D
[05:56] <Mez> Kamion: I believe it was somehting to do with tying people to chairs and forcing them to under the watchful eye of a brothel madam
[05:56] <Mez> or something similar
[05:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: "I need to find someone people I hate"
[05:57] <doko__> \sh, Mithrandir: vnc4: if it's based on xorg sources, it's less crack, but you can still smoke it ...
[05:57] <Kamion> heh
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[06:00] <doko__> seb128: I can't see when /etc/python2.4 should be empty, of course when it's purged, but not earlier ...
[06:00] <seb128> doko: it's happening for 3 person now
[06:01] <doko> seb128: new installations?
[06:01] <seb128> no
[06:01] <seb128> daily dist-upgrade for that guy
[06:04] <doko> seb128: it's not touch in any way. strange.
[06:04] <seb128> in fact the 2 others guys probably have a different issue
[06:04] <seb128> they have it on the colony 3 CD
[06:04] <seb128> flight 3 I mean
[06:04] <doko> live??
[06:05] <seb128> and pygobject was broken when the CD have been rolled I think
[06:05] <seb128> doko: gicmo has a standard install, gedit was crashing because pygtk not found, we traced that to /etc/python2.4 not beeing here
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[06:34] <Diziet> Aaargh, FFS, I don't want sys.exit to raise a bloody exception, I want it to _exit_ dammit !
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[06:36] <Keybuk> heh
[06:36] <Keybuk> you know what's really fun
[06:36] <Keybuk> when you do something like:
[06:36] <Keybuk> try:
[06:36] <Keybuk>    os.fork()
[06:36] <Keybuk>   # in child
[06:36] <Keybuk>   exec()
[06:36] <Keybuk>   sys.exit(255)
[06:36] <Diziet> *snort*
[06:37] <Keybuk> because then the sys.exit gets handled by the exception handler OUTSIDE of where you thought the child could exist
[06:37] <Diziet> What does that remind you of ? :-)
[06:37] <Keybuk> exactly the same bug I once found in dpkg? :p
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[06:45] <pef> hello
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[06:48] <bddebian> Hello pef
[06:48] <pef> heya bddebian :)
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[06:51] <seb128> Kamion: could you give a retry evolution update-notifier builds ?
[06:51] <fabbione> doko: ping?
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[06:59] <doko> fabbione: pong
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[07:00] <fabbione> doko: hey dude...
[07:00] <fabbione> doko: in the last bash upload, bash completion on ssh $host<tab> is broken :(
[07:00] <Kamion> seb128: evolution's in accepted, nothing to retry
[07:00] <fabbione> it stalls on a very long sed
[07:01] <fabbione> doko: i also have 2 questions.. any gcc/gcj/ooo2 upload plans within the next 24 hours?
[07:01] <Kamion> seb128: and update-notifier's in sync in the archive for everything except hppa/sparc, also nothing to retry
[07:01] <fabbione> actually one question...
[07:01] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, it was probably dep-wait and retried itself, thank you
[07:01] <fabbione> Kamion: sparc is getting there.. 4 buildds running atm
[07:02] <doko> fabbione: uploads: no, bash_completion; ehh, I'll look again, I did want to _fix_ it :-/
[07:02] <fabbione> doko: ok thanks :)
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[07:02] <dholbach> elm
[07:02] <dholbach> oops
[07:04] <bddebian> elmoops?
[07:17] <pef> what should I do when a package build-depends on now non longer existent automake1.6 package ? try to build it with automake1.7 1.9 ?
[07:18] <bddebian> pef: Yep :-)
[07:18] <pef> bddebian: or try to build with automake1.{7,8,9} and set bdepends to automake1.7|automake1.8 and so ?
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[07:19] <Treenaks> BenC: Who do I poke for bcm430x breakage?
[07:19] <bddebian> pef: I really don't know
[07:19] <bddebian> I'm stupid and have forgotten more than I ever knew :-)
[07:19] <pef> :^)
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[07:20] <pef> bddebian: thanks anyway I think keeping version-depends as lower as possible is the better solution
[07:20] <pef> diner
[07:23] <vuntz> Kamion: may I query you some words about lmanul for tonight's cc meeting?
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[07:25] <janimo> ogra, do you know if g-p-m/hal will be used for reboot shutdown as well besides power management?
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[07:25] <pitti> janimo: it can be used for that
[07:26] <janimo> yes but will it be used ? :)
[07:26] <janimo> I see hal has got the scripts
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[07:26] <janimo> it would be nice to have one interface
[07:26] <janimo> and make gdm use it too
[07:27] <pitti> then you had to dbusify gdm
[07:27] <pitti> not worth the trouble IMHO
[07:27] <pitti> unless upstream wants to do it
[07:27] <Kamion> vuntz: sure
[07:27] <janimo> hmm, gdm cannot do suspend ATM right?
[07:27] <pitti> janimo: it shuold be able to
[07:28] <pitti> janimo: at least the logout dialog can
[07:28] <janimo> ah I seem to recall calling pmi directly 
[07:28] <pitti> yes
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[07:28] <janimo> in debian/patches
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[07:29] <janimo> pitti, but if it was do do it though hal, then via dbus is the only way right? g-p-m is not there at that point
[07:30] <pitti> janimo: right
[07:30] <pitti> I have heard some weird hacks to give gdm it's own g-p-m, but that's pretty crazy
[07:30] <janimo> is hal supposed to be up at login dialog point
[07:30] <pitti> janimo: alternatively gdm could use dbus-send
[07:30] <pitti> janimo: yes, it is
[07:30] <pitti> but if it fails for some reason, you couldn't shutdown your box
[07:31] <pitti> so better not rely on hald if we can avoid it IMHO
=== pitti -> dinner, bbl
[07:31] <janimo> good point
[07:31] <Diziet> Can I do this ?
[07:31] <Diziet> autodebtest (0.5.1) dapper unstable; urgency=low
[07:32] <pitti> I'll go offline during dinner to save some modem costs (I want my main network back, bah) - cu later
[07:32] <Kamion> Diziet: more conventional would be to upload to unstable and ask James Troup to sync the package to dapper
[07:33] <Diziet> OK, I'll do that.  Do I have to wait for my ack from ftp.debian ?
[07:33] <Kamion> (I'm not sure whether the above would work or not)
[07:33] <Diziet> I was sort of hoping each would ignore the unknown suites, but that did seem rather optimistic ...
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[07:33] <Kamion> oh, you'd have to wait until it's NEW-processed in Debian
[07:33] <Kamion> we don't sync from non-publicly-visible locations to avoid hat confusion
[07:34] <Diziet> Yes.  In this case I'm wearing both hats at once.
[07:34] <Kamion> hat confusion for James
[07:34] <bddebian> heh
[07:34] <Diziet> Ah, yes, very sensible.
[07:34] <bddebian> Better than gender confusion I suppose :-)
=== Kamion -> dinner
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=== Keybuk -> dinner also
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[07:40] <BenC> Treenaks: bcm43xx.berlios.de
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[07:48] <dholbach> See you tomorrow - bye!
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[08:30] <mdke> my GNOME crashes when I try and logout. I don't see a bug on it, is it known?
[08:33] <crimsun> mdke: are you current as of now?
[08:33] <crimsun> it should be fixed now
[08:33] <mdke> yesterday
[08:33] <mdke> crimsun, thanks i'll upgrade
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[08:47] <dana2>  has to go today 1 alienware laptop 1 alienware desktop. price 500 each includes shipping and carry case for the laptop or monitor/keyboard/mouse for the desktop. message me if your interested at mcsltd1@hotmail.com, or ogd443 on aim or mcsltd2 on yahoo messenger. these MUST go today!
[08:48] <crimsun> quit it.
[08:48] <tseng> crimsun: it cant hear you, you need a kline.
[08:48] <\sh> for free I would take it..you pay the shipping fees....
[08:51] <\sh> lamont: can you tell me why lablgtk2_2.6.0 only compiled on amd64 but not on i386/ppc?
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[08:54] <crimsun> \sh: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova
[08:54] <\sh> crimsun: grmpf...
[08:55] <\sh> I didn't check the lists...gnarf
[08:55] <\sh> crimsun: on what? 
[08:55] <crimsun> liblablgl-ocaml-dev
[08:56] <\sh> should be there...
[08:56] <\sh> lamont: could you free lablgtk2_2.6.0 from it's dep-wait? thx :)
[08:56] <\sh> actually it's there in my i386 chroot
[08:58] <crimsun> well, lablgl ftbfs on [!amd64] 
[08:58] <crimsun> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/lablgl/1.02-1/)
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[09:00] <\sh> oh I'm damned...another package to fix before everything else
[09:00] <\sh> fck
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[09:00] <\sh> ok..fixing "gal"s unmet dep first...
[09:01] <lamont> lablgl_1.02-1_20060124-1959-i386-successful.gz
[09:01] <\sh> then lablgl
[09:01] <lamont> \sh: lablgl stands a very good chance of living now
[09:01] <\sh> lamont: don't confuse me now, pls :)
[09:02] <crimsun> ah, it just finished
[09:02] <lamont> \sh: give lablgl about 20 minutes before you worry about it
[09:02] <lamont> or maybe 30
[09:03] <\sh> lamont: but if everything is ok now, and lablgl is installed, please release lablgtk2 from it's dep-wait...whileI
[09:03] <\sh> while I'm checking out gal
[09:03] <lamont> \sh: once lablgl is really, there, lablgtk2 _WILL_ release from it's dep-wait
[09:03] <\sh> lamont: ah good to hear...I thought it needs manual intervention :)
[09:03] <ogra> lamont, did you get my give back request for dia ? 
[09:04] <lamont> the only time I have to actually get involved in releasing a d-w is when the package is dep-waited on something that isn't there (either virtual packages like libgl-dev, or removed packages like lib${foo}3)
[09:04] <lamont> ogra:sorry - looking now
[09:04] <ogra> thanks :)
[09:05] <ogra> i'm not in a hurry :)
[09:05] <lamont> dia is main or universe?
[09:05] <ogra> main
[09:05] <ogra> at least dia-gnome is
[09:06] <ogra> which is what i need for edubuntu-desktop 
[09:06] <\sh> hmmm..this is more strange...libgal2.4-0, libgal2.4-common is in universe, while libgal2-dev is in main...something is wrong here, isn't it?
[09:06] <ogra> the libs were not in sync during the build attempt
[09:06] <\sh> oh god..plural == are in universe
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.amd64:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Installed by buildd+crested [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.hppa:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Installed [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.i386:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Installed by buildd+rothera [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.ia64:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Building by buildd+weddell [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <sivang> hi all
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.powerpc:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Building by buildd+ross [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <lamont> buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.sparc:graphics/dia_0.94.0-17.1: Needs-Build [optional:out-of-date] 
[09:08] <lamont> given back on ia64 and ppc
[09:08] <ogra> thanks :)
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[09:08] <\sh> ogra: what was the url to have a look on the demotions and promotions from main to universe, and vice versa?
[09:08] <Kamion> \sh: libgal2-dev's in the list to be demoted to universe
[09:09] <\sh> Kamion: ah...thx :)
[09:09] <mvo> janimo: hi! do you plan to use update-manager in xubuntu as well? or does it has too many gnome depends for you :) ?
[09:09] <Kamion> I'll leave it until I've checked with seb128 though
[09:09] <ogra> \sh, anastacia.txt in mdz's people account
[09:09] <Kamion> \sh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[09:09] <Kamion> it's a bit of a mess at the moment
[09:09] <janimo> mvo, I looked at it and had quite some gnome deps :)
[09:09] <janimo> if they can be cleanely factored out I'd like to use it
[09:09] <\sh> Kamion: could be this the reason why it's uninstallable right now?
[09:09] <janimo> mvo, it does have a python part also right?
[09:09] <Kamion> in main? yes
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[09:10] <\sh> Kamion: yes, -dev in main and lib in universe
[09:10] <Kamion> yes
[09:10] <\sh> Kamion: thx
[09:10] <mvo> janimo: I ask because we'll have the upgrade-tool for dapper and it might be interessting to have that working with xubuntu as well
[09:10] <mvo> janimo: it's all python (pygtk+python-apt)
[09:10] <janimo> mvo, if it's all python it's fine except
[09:10] <sivang> pitti: ping
[09:10] <janimo> the python-gnome bindings are not too fine grained from what I saw
[09:11] <janimo> and if you use for instance gnome-canvas instead of needed that single gnome leaf library
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[09:11] <martinhj> str til?
[09:11] <mvo> so python-gnome2 is too much for you, riht?
[09:11] <janimo> it brings all in (ui,bonobo,vfs) on disk I mean not memory thankfully
[09:11] <martinhj> sorry
[09:12] <janimo> mvo, I think it is too late to have a python-canvas separate package
[09:12] <janimo> you do not actually use bonobo or other core gnoem stuff I assume?
[09:12] <mvo> janimo: I will have a look, it don't use that much gnome, it may be possible to make it plain pygtk+python-glade
[09:12] <janimo> most uses of gnome libs (C and python) I see fall into calling gnome_help or gnome_program init
[09:13] <mvo> janimo: the important stuff is the gnome help system
[09:13] <janimo> which could be done with ftk
[09:13] <janimo> ok, gnome.display_help is equivalent to exec yelp
[09:13] <janimo> or even better gnome-open
[09:13] <janimo> if it's installed (gnome envirnment) great
[09:13] <janimo> if not maybe a small popup dialog telling that to the user
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[09:14] <janimo> this is how I replaces gnome.help  with the exec in launchpad integration lib so gaim, firefox etc do not depend on gnome in breezy
[09:14] <janimo> mvo, thanks if you could make it gtk/glade only it would be awesome
[09:15] <mvo> I would be interessted in it to make xubuntu-desktop upgrades possible 
[09:15] <janimo> mvo, yes me too :)
[09:15] <mvo> janimo: xubuntu-desktop is availabe in breezy as well, right? 
[09:15] <janimo> so the updater is a python program and also a gnome applet IIRC?
[09:15] <janimo> mvo, yes in breezy too
[09:16] <mvo> janimo: the applet is a C application (a seperate one)
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[09:16] <janimo> that is not essential right? I mean the updater can be launched as a standalone app
[09:16] <mvo> yes, exactly
[09:16] <janimo> but I may adapt it to the xfce panel as a plugin
[09:17] <mvo> it should already run in the xfce panel as it's a normal tray applet
[09:17] <mvo> but it uses gnomevfs
[09:17] <janimo> does the app have a systray component and uses libnotify?
[09:17] <mvo> yes, both
[09:18] <janimo> I have just looked today at g-p-m and it is similar
[09:18] <mvo> it's probably harder to rip out the gnome stuff there
[09:18] <mvo> update-manger should be much easier
[09:18] <janimo> except its use of (understandable) gnomesession saving it could be just as well written with gtk 
[09:19] <mvo> yes. it uses gnome-vfs though to monitor for apt/dpkg activity (and hooks)
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[09:19] <janimo> oh yeah swicthed from gamin IIRC
[09:20] <mvo> yes, we may be able to get rid of libgamin for dapper
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[09:20] <janimo> oh is it not a core gnome dep?
[09:20] <tseng> not anymore
[09:20] <janimo> does vfs talk directly to inotify now?
[09:20] <tseng> ya
[09:20] <mvo> that's why I switched as well
[09:22] <AlinuxOS> people how can I translate gnome-menus in my own language...?
[09:22] <AlinuxOS>  I've alredy done it... compile .po file into .mo file... put it in right directory..but menus are still in english :((
[09:24] <janimo> mvo, I have an older update manager (0.40) source pkg and grepping through it shows that indeed gnome.init and gnome.help_display_desktop are used only
[09:24] <janimo> gtk.init and exec gnome-open may just do the trick
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[09:25] <trappist> it seems alsaconf was very intentionally left out of alsa-utils.  anyone know why?
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[09:25] <mvo> janimo: thanks, I'll try to find time tomorrow to fix that and fix the dist-upgrader to know about xubuntu-desktop as well
[09:25] <janimo> mvo, thanks :)
[09:26] <trappist> I was about to file a bug on the package but I thought I'd have a look first to make sure it wasn't intentional
[09:26] <trappist> the lines that remove it are preceded by "# do not install alsaconf for Ubuntu"
[09:26] <Burgwork> trappist, you need to talk with pitti about that I believe
[09:27] <wasabi_> Something just busted up my networking. Looks like the handling of /etc/networks/interfaces changes
=== trappist hilights pitti
[09:27] <wasabi_> I ended up having two auto eth0 lines in it, so networking failed on start.
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[09:51] <pitti> re
[09:51] <pitti> trappist: yes?
[09:52] <pitti> trappist: you miss alsaconf?
[09:52] <trappist> pitti: wondering about omitting alsaconf from alsa-utils.  they say you're the guy to ask.
[09:52] <trappist> I do
[09:52] <pitti> trappist: uh, we removed it back in warty or so; basically you should never need it
[09:52] <sivang> pitti: hi
[09:52] <pitti> since hotplug & co automatically care for loading drivers and such
=== pitti waves to sivang
=== sivang hugs pitti
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[09:53] <trappist> I know there are other solutions, but I've been noticing in #ubuntu for example that it's sorely missed.  online documentation points to it, sound doesn't always 'just work', people coming from other distros are accustomed to it, etc.
[09:53] <\sh> pitti: did you read the CVEs about openmotif?
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[09:54] <pitti> \sh: no, which?
[09:54] <sivang> pitti: have you had a chance to see nomed's stuff, the mount notifications stuff done by some guy who started the dsslive.org project. It seems very nice, written in python. something I think could power up the user experience on desktop Ubuntu.
[09:55] <\sh> pitti: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/29398
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29398: "CVE-2005-3964: Two exploitable buffer overflows in openmotif" Fix req. for: openmotif (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Unconfirmed
[09:55] <pitti> sivang: I never heard about that
[09:56] <pitti> \sh: I see
[09:56] <\sh> pitti: I tried to get some patches from openmotifs homepage...but nothing I found about it...
[09:56] <\sh> pitti: only new upstream version
[09:57] <\sh> pitti: but most likely the new version has this buffer overflow as well, and the reporter wasn't testing it with 2.2.4 as I understand him
[09:57] <trappist> pitti: I know there are other solutions, but I've been noticing in #ubuntu for example that it's sorely missed.  online documentation points to it, sound doesn't always 'just work', people coming from other distros are accustomed to it, etc.
[09:57] <sivang> pitti: I see, well there's an svn repo that represents a debian source pkg, with that guy's assitance, I instaleld on on my dapper and it works nicely. he also makes it configurable with xml files to match against mout / plug actions. The nicest thing about it, is that it allows you to responde to plugging events, so you can mount a CD rom volume if you inserted one, usb drive volumes etc. basically I understood from him he is going to extend it 
[09:58] <pitti> \sh: they don't have a public cvs?
[09:58] <pitti> trappist: hm, I'm not totally sure why we removed it back then, mdz should know
[09:59] <\sh> pitti: ah..I just looked at the wrong place...openmotif.org is that what I need, will investigate further tomorrow, 
[09:59] <pitti> sivang: sounds like gnome-volume-manager
[09:59] <pitti> sivang: what's the difference to g-v-m?
[10:01] <trappist> pitti: according to http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=52941 the reason is pretty much what you said, but imho "shouldn't be needed" isn't the same as "shouldn't be provided"
[10:01] <pitti> \sh: http://cvs.motifzone.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/openmotif/?cvsroot=openmotif
[10:01] <sivang> pitti: this is not a volume manager, but rather volume mount notifications stack that can work with g-v-m or something else.
[10:01] <sivang> pitti: or maybe it is? :)
[10:02] <\sh> pitti: nothing
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[10:04] <pitti> trappist: well, I wouldn't mind shipping it again; can you talk to mdz tomorrow? Maybe I'm not aware of the reasons
[10:04] <ogra> iirc, it broke the setups 
[10:04] <ogra> but dont ask in which way, thats all i remember ...
[10:04] <trappist> pitti: I'll keep an eye out for him, thanks
[10:05] <pitti> thank you
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[10:09] <lamont> Unpacking vpopmail-bin (from .../vpopmail-bin_5.4.4-1_hppa.deb) ...
[10:09] <lamont> Creating vchkpw group.../var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 71: addgroup: command not found
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[10:19] <sivang> pitti: if it's easy to do with g-v-m, is this something that could be / is rejected by UI usability stand point?
[10:19] <pitti> sivang: dunno, for that I need to know what that program actually does
[10:20] <pitti> sivang: g-v-m's purpose is to execute desktop actions in response to hardware changes
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[10:21] <seb128> pitti: what is the topic?
[10:21] <sivang> pitti: and it's arbitrarily extendible, as in adding / removing new actions right?
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[10:22] <pitti_> yay my network
[10:23] <sivang> pitti_: I'll replay :)
[10:24] <sivang> pitti_: and it's arbitrarily extendible, as in adding / removing new actions right?
[10:24] <sivang> err
[10:24] <sivang> :)
[10:24] <sivang> pitti: changing nicks just as I address you :)
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[10:24] <pitti> sivang: no, g-v-m isn't; you can arbitrarily define the actions for a fixed set of events
[10:24] <segfault> i'm unable to boot in vmware using the latest kernel. has anyone tried?
[10:25] <sivang> pitti: ah, I see. still adding notifications (as in libnotify desktop notifications) is independent of that.
[10:26] <ogra> sivang, having an additional g-v-m-dbus-listener process that pops up messages if mount/umount messages hit the dbus should be quite trivial
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[10:27] <sivang> ogra: yes, that's what I'm saying :)
[10:27] <ogra> but who would want popups for all events ? :)
[10:28] <sivang> ogra: also allow you to respond to them, for example I get many complaints from converted people from windoze, that they need to "find" the computer item in places, and then browse and mount their volumes.
[10:28] <sivang> ogra: they would prefer it popping up as windoze does, allowing them "to browse" or wahtever
[10:28] <ogra> apart from "i dont know how to hanlde this device" i wouldnt know any usecase 
[10:29] <tseng> if it doesnt know how to handle it
[10:29] <tseng> chances are the user doesnt know where to go from there anyway
[10:29] <Lathiat> 
[10:29] <ogra> yes
[10:29] <ogra> sivang, for me a window opens if i plug in a device ...
[10:29] <ogra> no need for a popup
[10:30] <pitti> and an icon appears on the desktop as well
[10:30] <ogra> tseng, the popup could have a button that starts the hwdb client and opens a bugreport with the hwdb id attached ;)
[10:30] <sivang> yes, but if their desktop is currently out of ficus, or minimized they don't get it
[10:31] <sivang> ogra: lol
[10:31] <tseng> ogra: sure
[10:31] <sivang> tseng: what do you mean "if it doesn't know how to handle it" ?
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[10:31] <tseng> sivang: no driver is hotplugged
[10:32] <sivang> tseng: yes, but what has it go to do to the notification stuff?
[10:32] <bradb> Hey all, I'm looking for some feedback on UI prototypes for the reports for packages you've told Malone to send you bugmail on.
[10:32] <bradb> http://flickr.com/photos/84096161@N00/
[10:33] <jbailey> bradb: How is that changed if I don't want it to send me bugmail at all, ever.
[10:33] <jbailey> ?
[10:33] <bradb> search_results, simple_search, and advanced_search
[10:33] <bradb> jbailey: segmentation fault
[10:33] <bradb> I guess these would be mostly irrelevant to you, for now.
[10:34] <jbailey> bradb: Well, I expect to receive bugs, but I prefer to use  a web interface and the search queries, especially as you have them there.
[10:34] <jbailey> I'm wondering if the idea of subscribing to a package and receiving bugmail is infinitely coupled.
[10:34] <bradb> It needn't be.
[10:35] <bradb> But in the short term it will continue to be.
[10:35] <jbailey> 'k
[10:36] <sivang> pitti, ogra : the code I saw is here http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/dss/dss-main/nomed/trunk/?rev=0&sc=0
[10:36] <Burgwork> bradb, sorry, I don't like your new bug page. It is still much too busy
[10:37] <sivang> ogra: (I sent you something from there the other day)
[10:38] <sivang> anyway folks, I gotta hit bed already :-(
[10:38] <sivang> night all
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[10:39] <Evaso> any support for dm-raid in the live-cd/installer of dapper?
[10:40] <bradb> Burgwork: How would you prefer it to look? (With consideration for page loads and clicks required to get things done.)
[10:40] <Kamion> Evaso: psusi has been working on it
[10:40] <Kamion> but no, not yet
[10:40] <Burgwork> bradb, the top table needs some data ordering by priority. Everything is all the same size
[10:40] <Evaso> Kamion: is there something in the svn?
[10:41] <Kamion> Evaso: no
[10:41] <bradb> Burgwork: According to whose priority? :)
[10:41] <Burgwork> bradb, the one you figure out must people need
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[10:45] <bradb> Burgwork: In any case, I'm interested in getting your and others' feedback on the three pages noted above. What do you think of those?
[10:46] <Burgwork> advanced search isn
[10:46] <Burgwork> t bad, working within the existing limitations of the LP interface
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[10:47] <Burgwork> bradb, your bug listing method is crap, to be honest
[10:47] <Burgwork> it needs to be in a table, to be trivially resorted
[10:47] <Burgwork> like the old method
[10:47] <bradb> Burgwork: How would you suggest a table layout be done in the three column layout?
[10:48] <Burgwork> bradb, I would like to junk the three column layout, to be honest
[10:48] <tseng> Burgwork++
[10:48] <bradb> You guys can help make these things change if you write your concerns to launchpad-users@.
[10:49] <bradb> If you don't, they'll remain as they are right now.
[10:49] <tseng> are you sure you want to *invite* Burgwork to post on your list?
[10:49] <tseng> he is unstoppable
[10:49] <jbailey> bradb: Hover-based fisheye for the side columns YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT BABY!
[10:49] <bddebian> Heh
[10:49] <bradb> *invite*? launchpad-users is public. :)
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[10:50] <jbailey> bddebian: Hey, two days in a row.  Good to see you. =)
[10:50] <tseng> dont say I didnt warn you
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[10:50] <bddebian> jbailey: Thanks, you too
[10:51] <Burgwork> bradb, I would suggest you talk to jbailey and Keybuk. The presented an excellent layout at UBZ to mpt (I snuck in to watch)
[10:52] <bradb> Burgwork: I've talked to them, and saw the layout.
[10:52] <jbailey> Burgwork: Ah, I'm pretty certain we inflicted that on just about everyone in the launchpad team. =)
[10:52] <Burgwork> jbailey, excellent work!
[10:52] <jbailey> And most of the conference, given our hallway usability studies. =)
[10:52] <bradb> I hate the portlets at least as much as you guys, but I can promise you they'll be there for as long as you guys aren't writing your complaints in a place that the sab can see them.
[10:53] <bradb> I doubt he reads l-u@, but at least we have archive URLs.
=== Burgwork sighs and signs up to another mailing list
[10:54] <bradb> Burgwork: I get the impression that you think we *chose* this layout. :)
[10:55] <Burgwork> bradb, here is good quote for you. "After the table layout change, that was the straw that broke the camels back for me and bug triaging in Malone"
[10:55] <bradb> Burgwork: You're preaching to the choir dude.
[10:56] <Burgwork> hey, I don't work for Canonical. I can email sabdfl and tell him how LP needs a new layout without risking my job!
[10:56] <bradb> Burgwork: Then you should.
[10:56] <mjg59> Ok, I've uploaded a fixed dbus
[10:57] <bradb> Burgwork: iwj did. :)
[10:57] <ogra> mjg59, \o/
[10:57] <Burgwork> anyway, the work part of the my nick actually means I supposed to be working and not on IRC
[10:59] <bradb> ok
[11:10] <torkel> pitti: ping?
[11:10] <pitti> hi torkel 
[11:10] <torkel> hi pitti
[11:10] <torkel> pitti: did you forget to actually depend on alsa-util in you upload of control-center?
[11:11] <pitti> torkel: well, yes and no. I patched debian/control instead of debian/control.in
[11:12] <pitti> torkel: thanks for spotting
[11:12] <pitti> *grumpf*
[11:12] <torkel> np
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[11:18] <mjg59> Oh why is dbus FTBFS now?
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[11:19] <ogra> mjg59, configure.in:220: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL
[11:20] <AlinuxOS> pitti, hello :)
[11:20] <mjg59> That shouldn't be an issue
[11:20] <mjg59> Hm. No, maybe it is.
[11:20] <ogra> in any case some autotools stuff ...
[11:20] <mjg59> Oh, probably needs to build-dep on libtool
[11:25] <segfault> anyone tried 2.6.15-13-686 in vmware 5.0?
[11:26] <pitti> mjg59: shouldn't it rather avoid calling autobreak during package build?
[11:27] <mjg59> pitti: No, because that defeats the object of having broken out patches
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[11:29] <torkel> segfault: does it even build? I tried to build latest vmplayer some time ago, but it failed on -12 IIRC, and I didn't have time to look into it
[11:30] <segfault> yes, i'm running vmware. but after the latest update, it doesn't boot anymore. i have lvm partitions :-)
[11:31] <segfault> and it cant find them
[11:31] <torkel> segfault: hm, guess I should retry a build then
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[11:46] <Tm_T> humm, no fonts matching to -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--*-*-*-*-c-*-*-*
[11:46] <Tm_T> not good
[11:46] <Tm_T> problem is, osd_cat doesn't work ;)
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[11:48] <pitti> jordi: ping
[11:50] <\sh> bah...I hate mozilla sources and location changes...moving from one location to another location
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[11:53] <pitti> good night everybody
[11:53] <tseng> bye pitti 
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