/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/01/29/#ubuntu-motu.txt

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Tonio_siretart: there was a problem while uploading kmhtconverter on revu, and upload fails for me actually....02:12
Tonio_siretart: can you remove it from queue ?02:12
siretartTonio_: done02:13
siretartgn802:13
Tonio_siretart: thanks :)02:13
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raphinksiretart: ajmitch made me an account on tiber02:19
raphinkit's a really nice, but I don't have writing rights on /var/revu/revu1-incoming02:20
ajmitchyes, I told him about that :)02:20
raphinkso that I can't run revu-build02:20
ajmitchumm02:20
ajmitchyou should be in the pbuilder group02:20
=== raphink forgot about the command to check the groups of a user
ajmitchok, looks like you need to be in another group02:21
ajmitchone moment02:21
raphinkotherwise it's very nice. I was able to find out why some upload didn't go up, by looking at /home/ftp and other stuff02:22
raphinkvery useful02:22
raphinkok02:22
ajmitchit should work now, might need to logout & login02:22
raphinkok02:24
raphinkI'll try02:24
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raphinksiretart, ajmitch02:32
raphink $ revu-build kmhtconvert_0.7.3-0ubuntu1.dsc02:32
raphinkW: /home/raphink/.pbuilderrc does not exist02:32
raphink  -> Logging to kmhtconvert_0.7.3-0ubuntu1.buildlog02:32
raphinkls: *.deb: No such file or directory02:32
raphinkis that normal ?02:32
raphink:s02:33
ajmitchit's normal if the build breaks02:35
ajmitchwhich happens often enough, when the uploaded package just doesn't build in pbuilder02:35
raphinkhmm02:36
raphinkit builds in my pbuilder though02:36
raphinkso maybe it's the revu pbuilder that isn't up-to-date02:37
raphink.02:37
raphink?02:37
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ajmitchraphink: then update it02:39
raphinkhow ?02:39
raphinkdo I have the right to run pbuilder update ?02:39
raphinkmkdir: cannot create directory `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//6798': Permission denied02:40
raphink;)02:40
raphinkoh I hvae sudo rights for pbuilder02:40
raphinkgood to know02:40
raphink:)02:40
ajmitchuse pbuilder-dapper update02:41
raphinkhmm02:41
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raphinkI'm running sudo pbuilder update currently02:42
raphinkis that fine ?02:42
ajmitchplease don't02:42
ajmitchno02:42
raphinkoh no it's a breezy one :(02:42
raphinkargh02:42
raphinkok I'm updating the dapper one02:42
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raphinkajmitch: is it possible to have revu-build a bit more verbose?02:45
ajmitchit's a script, so yes02:46
raphinkhehe02:46
raphinkI guess I just have to cp /usr/local/bin/revu-build to my ~ and modify it ;)02:47
raphinkso its more verbose ;)02:47
raphinkthat's how you mean?02:47
raphink;)02:47
LaserJockso is revu-build what is used to generate what you see when you click on the details for a package on revu?02:49
raphinkits used to generate this LaserJock http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=160602:50
raphinkjust ran it on this package to test :)02:50
LaserJockbut it can also be used from ~/ to right?02:51
raphinkhow do you mean?02:51
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raphinkyou mean if you want to use it on your comp?02:51
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raphinkanyway02:52
raphinktime to go to bed02:52
raphinkalmost 3 AM02:52
raphinkand I have to go out and see seveas tomorrow :)02:53
raphink'night02:53
raphink<>< LaserJock :)02:53
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now! | Merges to review & upload: http://tinyurl.com/a3qjh
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by ajmitch at Wed Jan 18 23:05:17 2006
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ajmitchRiddell: ping?03:09
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=== psusi is getting worried now... running smart long self test on my hard drives and they sound like they are going to explode... heh
psusithe head is massively thrashing and the pitch is getting higher and higher03:28
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=== dcode is away: sleeping...
hubwow05:18
hubkernel seriously broke05:19
ajmitchhow badly?05:19
hubthe console is messy05:19
hubX does not even start05:19
hubtrying the old kernel05:20
hubthumbnailing in nautilus is also broken05:20
hubfiles a bug05:20
huband it stall on "detecting and activating hardware"05:22
hubfor a long time05:22
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hubnow I understand the "freeze"05:24
ajmitch_hm, I missed the comments05:25
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hubajmitch_: udev is fscked05:27
hubcompletely05:27
hubI reboot signle05:27
ajmitch_hm05:30
ajmitch_I might put off dist-upgrading tonight then05:30
hubyeah05:31
hubpossibly05:31
hubbut the old kernel does not boot either05:31
hub'cause of udev05:31
minghuadoes that mean I should update kernel but hold udev?05:31
hubminghua: hold eveything05:31
ajmitch_well there's been no udev upload for two weeks05:31
ajmitch_so you can't blame changes there05:32
hubkernel got updated05:32
minghuahub: all right, fortunately I don't need any new stuff, thanks05:32
hubI did a mass upgrade05:32
ajmitch_last kernel upload I see was 5 days ago05:32
huband I still miss bits like dbus 0.6005:32
ajmitch_ 2.6.15-13.18 ?05:32
hubI don;t know why05:32
hubajmitch: that one05:32
hubajmitch: but maybe the machine is fscked05:33
hubit is an old PIII05:33
ajmitch_so it's nothing new that's been introduced in the last day or so05:33
ajmitch_where does it stop booting for you?05:33
minghuaHmm, I am using 2.6.15-13.1805:34
ajmitch_so am I05:34
minghuaso it looks the bug is specific to hub's machine05:34
ajmitch_I had it stop once at detecting & activating hardware today05:34
ajmitch_like it did last week05:34
ajmitch_but a reboot fixed it05:34
hubI did reboot thrice05:34
hubnow I'm in signle user05:35
huband try manual fiddling05:35
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hubmaybe should I install Xandors ;-/05:37
minghuaheh05:39
hubwhere do I find udev logs?05:40
hubudevplug fail05:41
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LaserJockmuahahaha, I got vmware-player to use linux in Windows.05:45
LaserJocknow VMware is useful ;-)05:47
Kyrallol05:48
KyralI got a LAMP setup05:48
Kyralazuredream.homelinux.org05:48
LaserJockKyral: nothing there :(05:56
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KyralLaserJock: eh?05:57
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hubfsck05:58
Kyralhttp://azuredream.homelinux.org/blog/05:58
LaserJockKyral: all I see is "The Career Fair Cometh"06:00
Kyralyah06:01
Kyralright now thats all it is lol06:01
Kyrala blog lol06:01
KyralI just set it up today shessh06:01
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LaserJockKyral: np, I think I have a blog somewhere but I don't remember where at the moment (blogger.com perhaps)06:03
LaserJockKyral: I don't even have enough time to get the things done I would blog about let alone write the blog ;-)06:03
minghuaLaserJock: same here. :-)  my last blog entry is in June06:06
hubplugdevd does not even have a debug mode of any soirt06:08
hubudevplug I mean06:08
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LaserJockhmm, I haven't seen elmo on -devel all day06:19
hubisn't he at LCA?06:20
LaserJockoh, that could be06:20
LaserJockwell, he's excused then ;-)06:21
hubkrap06:23
hubmy console is really messed up06:23
hubit display garbage06:23
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Kyralokay bedtime06:44
LaserJockcya Kyral06:47
zakamehi all06:55
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dholbachgood morning07:17
lucashi dholbach07:18
lucasyou are up early :)07:18
dholbachYeah, just waking up :)07:18
Revanheya dholbach :)07:18
dholbachhey zakame07:18
dholbachgar... it's cold over here07:19
lucashehe, you got into that cold wave from the east of europe ?07:20
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dholbach-17C; felt temperature -24C07:20
dholbachI'll wait a bit with taking the dog out. :)07:20
Treenaksdholbach: ouch07:20
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dholbachOnce you're walking, it's ok - but long mobile conversation hurt. :-)07:21
Treenaksdholbach: -4 here07:21
dholbachNice07:21
Treenaksthanks to the north sea07:21
lucasdholbach: have you heard of some plans about getting ekiga (gnomemeeting 2) in dapper ?07:24
Treenaksthat would ROCK07:24
Treenaksbtw, wpd2sxw needs a recompile (it's uninstallable atm)07:24
dholbachlucas: yes, i talked to the pkg-voip team07:24
dholbachlucas: after they have it, i'll test it and talk to matt and colin - which reminds me, need to mail them07:25
lucasok, that's great07:26
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dholbachWhat's the ipython situation?08:03
dholbachAre we about to request UVF exception and sync or what?08:04
=== lucas doesn't know
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dholbachOk just saw - requires ubuntu update)08:09
lucashttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT08:10
=== lucas wants to get things moving
dholbachI'd like to hear more opinions on the UVF requests08:11
dholbachI don't want to be the only one deciding.08:11
lucasdholbach: the problem is that, in the end, you'll be the one deciding08:12
dholbachNo, we can have a look and say "wow that's lot of fixes" - or "no, that's just features"08:12
lucasmy POV would be :08:13
dholbachI don't want to be the only one with an opinion.08:13
lucas- if it's a lib, let's take things carefully08:13
lucas- if it's not a lib (no packages depending on it), and it was suffficiently tested to make sure it doesn't explode, let's sync it08:13
dholbachHm...08:14
lucasbut I know it's not the opinion I'm supposed to have :-)08:14
dholbachYou can have every opinion you can think of  :-)08:14
dholbachlibgettext-ruby looks good to me08:14
lucasshouldn't we track UVF exc req using bugs in malone, assigned to MOTU or motureviewers ?08:15
lucasI find it hard to follow the mails08:15
dholbachIt is, but I want people to read this.08:15
dholbachI'm not sure, if many people track motureviewers.08:15
dholbachI want this to be discussed08:15
dholbachWhat about sisu?08:17
dholbachIs there no Upstream changelog or anything?08:17
lucasyup, no upstream changelog08:17
lucasthe changes are mainly to the build system08:17
minghuadholbach: I think the problem is, many people don't have the knowledge / don't care enough to give opinions08:17
dholbachgar!08:17
minghuadholbach: take myself as example, I use none of the packages that request for UVF exception now08:18
dholbachminghua: It's merely reading and thinking... :-)08:18
minghuaI don't know if I should speack out my opinion08:18
dholbachit's a gut feeling08:19
minghuadholbach: just reading the diffstat would be good enough?08:19
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dholbachthe changelog mostly - the numbers in the diffstat can make sense too08:19
dholbachIf you see 90% changes in doc/ you can be pretty sure, that we have enough time to fix the 10% if they explode :-)08:20
dholbachstuff like that08:20
dholbachlucas: sisu looks unintrusive, I just can't see sense in all the changes :-)08:22
lucasme neither, but I'd prefer to stay in sync08:23
lucassince the packaging looks complex, it might be hard to fix later08:23
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=== ajmitch_ just hasn't had time for ubuntu or debian work this week :)
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dholbachI'm going to request uvf exception approval for lyx, iypton, libgettext-ruby and sisu08:32
dholbachIf I missed something you all have time to find out, as long as I'm under the shower.08:33
lucascan we discuss psi ?08:36
lucasit's the most popular jabber-only client08:36
lucasit would be a shame to release dapper with an old version08:36
dholbachCan you send the relevant info to the mailing list?08:37
lucasok08:38
dholbachThanks.08:38
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lucaspsi is badly maintained in debian :/08:41
lucasi'm not sure what to do with what \sh changed to the package08:41
minghuaHmm, I wonder what is the difference between lesstif and openmotif08:42
lucasdholbach:  btw, what's the process for UVF and packages requesting a merge ?08:42
lucasyou first seek approval by Kamion and then upload the merged package ?08:42
dholbachNot sure - the Schedule mentions that this week is the "finish rest of the merges" week08:43
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lucasno I mean: psi has local changes in ubuntu.08:43
lucaslet's say you ask for an UVF exception for psi08:44
lucashow do we proceed with uploading 0.10-2ubuntu1 ?08:44
dholbachI don't understand the question.08:44
=== lucas thinks about it
lucaspsi:08:44
dholbachWe ask to get new Upstream code in, we upload it if they say ok.08:44
lucasVersion in Ubuntu: 0.9.3-2ubuntu108:44
lucasVersion is Sid: 0.10-208:44
lucasoh ok08:45
dholbachIt's quite easy. :-)08:45
dholbachok, brb08:45
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ejofeewhy isn't mc (midnight commander) included in a standard (k)ubuntu install? or why not at least on the cd?08:55
lucashi08:55
ajmitch_because very few people use it, compared to something like nautilus or konqueror?08:55
ajmitch_there are many packages that could be on the cd, but aren't due to lack of space08:56
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ejofeeajmitch_: mc is not very large08:56
ajmitch_neither are a number of others08:56
lucasmany packages are not very large :)08:56
ajmitch_but they add up08:56
ajmitch_mc is not in main, either08:57
minghuaIs vim/emacs in standard install?08:57
Mithrandirvim, not emacs08:57
Mithrandiremacs was thrown out after 4.1008:57
ajmitch_Mithrandir: didn't they want another desktop environment?08:57
Mithrandirajmitch_: haha. :-P08:57
ejofeeajmitch_: oh, it is not in main? it's ok, then. it compensates. :P08:57
=== ajmitch_ uses emacs :)
Mithrandirajmitch_: you do know vim has more embedded languages than emacs?08:57
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ajmitch_Mithrandir: no, since I rarely use vim08:58
Mithrandirajmitch_: perl, python, ruby, tcl at least.  Or can be compiled with.08:58
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ejofeeMithrandir: is vim better than nano?08:59
Mithrandirejofee: is a SUV better than a bicycle?08:59
minghuathe answer is pretty subjective, I am afraid08:59
ejofeeMithrandir: if vim is so good, then why do fewer and fewer people use it?09:00
Mithrandirejofee: they do?09:01
=== minghua wonders what emacs would be if vim is a SUV :-)
Mithrandirminghua: a JSF or AH-66, of course. :-)09:01
Mithrandiruh, AH-6409:01
ajmitch_hm09:02
ejofeeminghua: emacs is a text editor09:02
ajmitch_ejofee: that's one of its minor functions09:02
ejofeeajmitch_: what is vim's equivalent for windows, btw?09:03
Mithrandirejofee: you have vim for windows too09:03
Mithrandiror you could use vim-gtk or something09:03
ejofeeMithrandir, ajmitch_: if emacs is better than vim, then why do many distros include only vim by default?09:04
ejofeeis it because vim is smaller?09:04
ajmitch_better? now that's a good topic for a heated discussion09:04
Mithrandirejofee: I'm not going to have that discussion.  Editor preference is mainly that -- a matter of preference.09:05
MithrandirI happen to prefer emacs, but I wouldn't say that vim is a worse editor.  It's just not my favourite.09:05
ejofeeMithrandir: ok, then, statistically speaking, which one has a larger user base?09:05
MithrandirI don't know09:05
Mithrandir(and I don't really care, I use the one I prefer and I would expect others to do the same)09:06
minghuaand a lot of people use both vim and emacs09:06
MithrandirI would also recommend people to learn both, at least on a superficial level so they won't be lost if their favourite isn't on the system.09:07
ejofeeMithrandir: sometimes statistics can show how evolved (or adapted) a subject can be.09:07
zakameemacs!?! vim!?! all in one sentence!?!09:07
MithrandirI'm not sure what you mean with you mean by "evolved".09:07
ejofeeMithrandir: doesn't vim tend to be found everywhere?09:07
Mithrandirno09:07
torkelejofee: no, vi maybe but not vim...09:08
ejofeeMithrandir: adapted to most users' needs09:08
Mithrandirelvis or nvi can be found on most systems, though.09:08
Mithrandirejofee: my needs are surely different that yours.09:08
ejofeeMithrandir: some needs are statistically more obscure or less representative than others.09:08
ejofeeMithrandir: statistically. not ethically.09:09
ejofeeMithrandir: but yes.09:09
Mithrandirsure, but if that's a critical piece of functionality for me, I don't care if 99% of the users don't need it.09:09
ejofeeMithrandir: agreed.09:09
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Mithrandir(like, I do moderate newsgroups once in a while and having a good integration between my news reader and editor is crucial.  I don't expect other people to really care about that.09:10
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ejofeebtw, is there any distro (that you know of) which includes emacs on a default install? what about on a minimal environment?09:10
Mithrandirif you want something resembling a stripped-down emacs, use jed.09:11
Mithrandirand no, but why is the default install so important?  emacs is on the cd, it's in main and supported.09:11
ejofeeMithrandir: when i boot an distro's official cd in the rescue mode and i see that i can't modify files because it uses vim (which i don't know how to use), i do care. i then miss mc, or maybe nano or emacs.09:13
Mithrandirejofee: use our live cd and install emacs, then. :-P09:13
ejofeeMithrandir  :)09:14
zakamehm, there's nothing wrong in being ambidextrous09:14
minghuadebian's rescure CD (actually just the installer) should use nano instead of vi, don't know about ubuntu's though09:15
ejofeeminghua: why do you think it *should* use nano instead of vi?09:15
Mithrandirthe ubuntu installer cd has nano on it.09:16
Mithrandirejofee: because nano is way more newbie friendly.09:16
Mithrandira rescue/install cd needs an editor everybody can use to rescue their system.  It doesn't matter if it's suboptimal for writing lots of code or books or such.09:16
ejofeeMithrandir: right.09:17
minghuaejofee: sorry, I was not clear.  I meant "should be using nano now"09:17
minghuaor "I remember they are using nano now"09:17
ejofeeMithrandir, minghua: then mc (which has its internal editor) would be the very best! plus it resembles nc.09:17
ejofee... or bios.09:18
ejofeei think mc is best for a minimal, rescue cd.09:18
MithrandirI never ever liked norton commander.09:18
zakamenetcat?09:18
zakameerr norton commander, sorry09:19
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dholbachgoing to request uvf exceptions for lyx, ipython, libgettext-ruby, sisu, psi09:19
dholbachthe rest requires discussion09:19
ejofeemc is THE BEST minimal tool when it comes to user friendliness. plus it provides a nice way to browse the file system (sh is not that friendly to the noob).09:21
Mithrandirejofee: we're going to switch to a live cd based installer for dapper anyway, so you shouldn't need to use a shell to browse the fs anyway.09:22
lucasejofee: feed2imap is the best feed aggregator from my POV. Am I bitching about getting it on the CDs ? ;)09:22
ejofeeMithrandir: what about the rescue cases?09:22
Mithrandirejofee: a live cd should be much better suited for that, don't you think?09:23
dholbachejofee: discuss tihs on a mailing list, justify it and suggest what should be removed from the CDs instead of it.09:23
ejofeeMithrandir: ok, but some live cds fail back... into vim09:23
dholbachejofee: this discussion doesn't get nowhere without a concrete proposal09:24
ejofeeMithrandir: let mc be the live cd's failsafe case. why not?09:24
ejofeedholbach: right09:24
lucasejofee: subscribe to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com and discuss it there09:25
Mithrandirejofee: I am of the opinion that mc's UI is horrible, so convincing me will be quite hard. :-)09:25
ejofeeMithrandir: as people were doing back in the 90s, when they were "failsafing" to dos / nc09:25
lucaswe are not the one able to take the decision anyway, so it's worthless discussing it there09:25
MithrandirI've never ever, ever met somebody who had a boot floppy which fell back to norton commander.09:25
ejofeeMithrandir: well, you're right :)... but we are talking cds here09:26
ejofeelucas: thanks. i will.09:26
Mithrandirejofee: Installed-Size: 595209:26
MithrandirI don't think that qualifies as "minimal" in any sense of the word.09:26
ejofeeMithrandir: i think it has a minimal version09:26
ejofeeMithrandir: for the post-cd era, it IS minimal *by all means*.09:27
lucaswe aren't yet in the post-cd era09:27
ejofeelucas: ok... for the cd era :D09:27
Mithrandirno, it's not.  You need to stuff this into a ramdisk and a 6MB hit to the installer's memory requirements is _huge_09:27
Mithrandirif it was 250k would could possible be having a meaningful conversation.09:27
Mithrandirpossibly, even09:27
ejofeeMithrandir: then is there any console file browser (with no internal editor) which is slimmer?09:29
ejofeeMithrandir: user friendly, that is09:29
ejofeeMithrandir: rather, "noob-friendly"09:29
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ptloone thought about live cd in rescue mode - can it be unmounted? i've never used ubuntu live cd's (never needed a rescue :), but i once tried using knoppix' cd and i remember the frustration i got when i tried to access something on another cd (the system had only one cd drive)09:30
Mithrandirejofee: that's not relevant.  6MB is too much.09:30
Mithrandirptlo: no, it can't.09:31
ejofeeMithrandir: that was not an argument. i was really wondering whether there was some alternative.09:31
Mithrandirejofee: none I know of.09:32
Mithrandirejofee: I think we just have to live with the fact that the console is, more or less, dead.09:32
ptloMithrandir: that's a pity, i believe it'd be more usable in that case (i'm not starting a rant here, i do trust that there are very good reasons for not being so)09:32
ejofeeMithrandir: anyway, vim alone is 1300 kb...09:32
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zakame_awayhm, then again, what's the diff between {noob,user}-friendly?09:33
Mithrandirejofee: vim's on the live cd, but not in the installer.  There's nano there.09:33
ejofeezakame_away: vim is user-friendly09:33
ejofeezakame_away: vim helps the user do lots of things09:33
ejofeezakame_away: ... and very easily... as soon as the user is a user, not a noob.09:33
Mithrandirzakame_away: newbie-friendly means it's easy to get started with.  User-friendly means it's easy to do the stuff you want to do, but it might require learning effort to get there.09:33
ejofeezakame_away: that is, as soon as the user *learns* how to use it09:33
zakame_awayptlo: I had a similar experience, but it was quite easy in my case09:33
zakame_awayejofee, Mithrandir : ah09:34
zakame_awaywell, in that case, iptables is ``user-friendly'' for me ;)09:35
Mithrandirptlo: yes, it's a hard problem to solve.  What you'd need to do is to load all the data into memory and mount that tmpfs somewhere.  > 2GB memory isn't too common just yet.09:35
ejofeezakame_away: iptables isn't user-friendly for anybody. it has a way too techie design.09:35
zakame_awayIMU, user-friendly approximates (or daresay equals) being intuitive, right?09:36
Burgundaviaejofee, vim is far from userfriendly. nano is09:36
Mithrandirintuitive interfaces aren't.09:36
MithrandirBurgundavia: nano is not user friendly.  It gets in my way.  vim and emacs generally doesn't.09:36
MithrandirBurgundavia: however, nano is newbie friendly.09:36
BurgundaviaMithrandir, yes09:36
zakame_awayejofee: I was testing yours, and Mithrandir's definition.  :)09:38
ejofeeBurgundavia: from what i've heard, nano is user-unfriendly, but noob-friendly09:38
Mithrandirzakame_away: I think iptables is user-friendly, but it takes a fair amount of time to learn09:38
Mithrandir(a lot of which is not iptables' fault, but more that it exposes a lot of functionality which is not easily explained and which require you to understand how the internet works)09:39
zakameMithrandir: exactly. hence the definitions hold, but I must add that to gauge the learning effort is mostly subjective09:41
ejofeeMithrandir, zakame, Burgundavia:  "user friendly" vs. "(perpetual) noob friendly" --- i don't think i can find any explanation better than this: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm (search for "blissfully" on the page, to get to the right paragraph)09:41
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StevenKAt least iptables is a little more user-friendly than ipchains.09:42
StevenKipchains bites back.09:42
ejofeeto me, this is a very insightful distinction. what is your opinion?09:43
Mithrandirejofee: I don't agree with the car analogy in there, but the rest holds (fairly well)09:44
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ejofeeMithrandir: yeah, the car analogy is slightly... off-topic :)09:44
Tonio__hi everyone09:45
zakamehaha09:45
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zakameheya Tonio_09:45
Tonio_yop zakame09:46
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ejofeeMithrandir: i intend to send the author this "correction", which makes the analogy much shorter and on-topic: "It's like the difference between an axe and a chainsaw. It's easier (more intuitive, easier to figure out how) to cut a tree with an axe, right? However, for somebody who knows how to manage it, it's much easier and efficient to do it with a chainsaw." :)10:26
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Riddellajmitch_: pong11:02
ajmitch_Riddell: was just questioning the xlibs-static-pic dep for libqt4-dev11:03
ajmitch_I'm guessing the dep is meant to be removed?11:04
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Riddellajmitch_: it's not meant to be since the debian packagers would have put it there for a reason but it may well should be11:08
Riddellajmitch_: but qt4 built successfully, does it not do so any more?11:08
ajmitch_it's not a build dependency11:08
ajmitch_and it makes libqt4-dev uninstallable, sadly11:09
=== ajmitch_ is just wanting it for an LCA tutorial session by a trolltech guy tomorrow :)
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torthoHi, The gtk-gnutella package in Dapper is not working, is this supposed to be entered as a bug in launcpad? Or is it to early?11:21
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Mezargh11:29
Mezsomeone give me something to kill11:29
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TheMusoc11:30
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siretarttortho: launchpad is the right place for this11:30
Mezsorry11:30
Mezvery frustrated... at the moment11:30
Mezand not in a good way11:30
siretarttortho: use this link https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gtk-gnutella/+filebug11:31
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torthosiretart: Thanks, Reported.11:35
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siretarttortho: your report confuses me because of https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gtk-gnutella/+bug/647211:40
UbugtuMalone bug 6472: "[breezy]  gtk-gnutella reports "*** RUNNING AN OLD VERSION ***"" Fix req. for: gtk-gnutella (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Unconfirmed11:40
siretartyou report it was working in breezy, the other user that it was not. This indicates me that it might be not only depending on the version11:41
torthoI have been running breezy since it was released, without any problems.. If you have a look on their web page, the only version wich should be "blocked" is the 0.95 version and that was from the 22. of november i I remember right..11:43
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torthosiretart:  From the page:: Version 0.96b is a beta version of forthcoming 0.96. It is now mandatory to use this beta version as the 0.95.x series is about to expire on November 26th.11:45
siretarttortho: I'm not familar to gnutella nor to gtk-gnutella at all. That was just a guess11:45
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ajmitch_how very annoying, that they break compatibility so quickly11:46
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ajmitch_hey koke :)11:46
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torthosiretart: I duplicated those bugs... the bad thing is that i downloaded the original package from their website and it doesn't work either.11:58
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raphinkstill about 110 packages to review and there we are :)12:21
raphinklol12:21
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ajmitch_morning \sh12:29
\shmoins ajmitch_ sitting in an office and try to destroy cacti :) or better improve it12:29
ajmitch_hehe12:29
=== ajmitch_ is just doing a dist-upgrade
ajmitch_and then I might see if I can get qt4 to be installable before tomorrow morning12:30
ajmitch_\sh: try & install libqt4-dev :)12:31
\shajmitch_: kick someone who is not \sh :) looking for a fix just now :)12:32
ajmitch_hehe12:32
ajmitch_probably just drop the dep from control12:32
ajmitch_I talked to riddell briefly12:33
Riddellajmitch_: I'll look at qt412:33
ajmitch_we don't have the package needed here, and I don't know enough about the -pic crack :)12:33
ajmitch_Riddell: thanks12:33
Tonio_anyone's got a few minutes to revu jRe's "keep" ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=160112:35
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ajmitch_sigh12:43
ajmitch_mail to utnubu-discuss from me just doesn't seem to get through12:44
ajmitch_lucas: did you receive the email I sent? it was addressed to you & Cc: utnubu-discuss12:44
lucasI got it, yes12:45
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lucasare you subscribed ?12:45
ajmitch_yes12:46
ajmitch_with my debian.org address12:46
lucasstrange12:47
ajmitch_quite strange12:47
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to2hi!12:48
ajmitch_hello12:48
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to2Where is the home from 'ubuntu-motu'? america?12:58
dholbach'home'?12:58
dholbachWe're located around the globe, luckily.12:59
raphinkthis is our home here :)12:59
raphinkwelcome home12:59
raphinkcome sit by the fire :)12:59
raphinkand have yourself a drink12:59
Yagisanto2: earth12:59
raphinkso far I think we're all on earth, yeah01:00
raphinkexcept sabdfl, from time to time ;)01:00
to2'ubuntu-motu' was set in which country - sorry my english is not the best!01:00
Yagisanto2: no single country. so earth01:01
raphinkyou mean the chan? the ML?01:01
to2no land - no time!01:01
dholbacha couple of countries, all the time :)01:01
to2raphink, how late in your country?01:02
raphink:)01:02
raphink13:0201:02
Yagisan23:0201:02
to2in germany it is 'the same'01:02
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to213:0201:02
to2Yagisan, 'where is your homeland'?01:03
Yagisanto2: Australia01:03
to2... so far01:03
to2from my living room01:03
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to2ciao - bye, bye - aufwiedersehen ...01:22
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KuriKaihello01:33
KuriKaianyoen see this?01:34
raphinkhi KuriKai01:35
raphinkajmitch_: grep-dctrl that you gave me searches in control files of the binaries it seems, so it can't find Build-Depends01:35
raphinkajmitch_: or am I missing something?01:35
KuriKaicool people can see what i type01:36
KuriKaicause yagisan cant01:36
raphinkah?01:36
KuriKaihe was in the channel a bit ago01:36
azeemraphink: you can tell it to search Sources.gz as well, I believe01:37
KuriKaiim going to be hosting doomsday ubuntu packages01:37
raphinkhmm let's see01:37
raphinkI don't seem to find this in the manual but I'll serach again01:37
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Yagisan???01:44
Yagisanraphink: I must be getting popular now - people look for me even in the wrong channel01:49
raphinkhehe01:49
raphink:)01:49
Yagisanraphink: he's a mirror operator for a can't-be-in-ubuntu-because-upstream-stuffed-up package01:50
raphinkstuffed up?01:51
raphinkhow do you mean?01:51
Yagisanraphink: although, finally upstream is fixing the mess01:51
raphinkok01:51
Yagisanraphink: mixed licenses01:51
raphinkok01:51
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Yagisanraphink: they are rewriting, and properly copyrighting the source code now, so in a few versions it will be an in-ubuntu-package. probably at dapper + 3 at upstreams pace01:52
raphinkok01:53
Yagisanraphink: it seems repeated cluebats helped :)01:54
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raphinkgrr01:57
StevenKraphink: grep-dctrl -F<Search Fields> -s<Fields to show> data < /var/lib/apt/lists/...01:59
raphinkyeah just found out01:59
raphinkthanks :)01:59
StevenKsteven@broken:~% grep-dctrl -FMaintainer -sPackage stevenk /var/lib/apt/lists/au.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_breezy_main_binary-i386_Packages01:59
StevenKPackage: linda01:59
Yagisanraphink: could you check something for me. can you /msg me ? just type anything01:59
raphinkStevenK: :)02:00
Yagisanraphink: thanks. not my client that is broken.02:00
raphink:)02:00
raphinkthis guy might not be registered02:01
raphink;)02:01
raphinkon freenode02:01
StevenKraphink: Just remember, F is for Find, and s is for Show.02:01
raphinkyes02:01
StevenK-sPackage,Installed-Size or so works too.02:01
raphinkI just missed the < file02:01
Yagisanraphink: ah - thanks02:01
raphinkI had to find where the source files where02:01
raphinksince I wanted to grep for Build-Depends02:01
raphinkthanks much StevenK :)02:01
StevenKNo problem.02:02
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raphinkdholbach: should I file bugs for these ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/Automake03:14
raphinkor juts fix them and upload them03:14
raphink?03:14
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dholbachAs you like it.03:15
raphinkok03:15
raphink:)03:15
tsengdholbach: when/have UVF requests gone to matt/collin?03:15
raphinkI thought there would be more FTFS because of this. Won't be as long as I excpected it03:16
dholbach4h ago or something03:16
tsengthanks03:16
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\shraphink: are they needed those dependencies, or can we regenerate automake stuff locally and provide them as patch to the source files?03:31
raphinkI think they are needed, otherwise they wouldn't be there03:32
raphinkI'm rather for bumping automake1.6 to automake1.9 in these packages03:32
jc-dentoni'm looking for a way to try out beagle 0.2 w/o building mono from source03:33
\shraphink: cool :)03:34
raphink:)03:34
raphink\sh: that's a minimal harmful change03:34
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dholbach\sh: does ooqstart work with oo2?04:06
\shdholbach: I adjusted the install deps for openoffice.org2 first...I can't test right now, if it's really working.04:07
\shdholbach: has to wait until this late evening04:07
\shor night better04:07
dholbachI worked on this quite a while and didn't get it working.04:07
dholbachSo I'm interested if you really fixed it.04:08
dholbachWhat I found out in the end was that on Linux OO.o2 didn't support the preloading at that time.04:08
dholbachHopefully it got better.04:08
\shwell, if it's not working that it's quite useless ...04:09
\shdholbach: what does real upstream say about this lack of cooperation between ooqstart and OO.o2?04:09
dholbachI didn't mail the lists, it was very shortly before Breezy release.04:10
dholbachSo I tried to fix the code and read as much info on the web as I could find.04:11
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Tonio_dholbach: heya ;)04:17
dholbachhi tonio_04:17
Tonio_dholbach: will you be there at the CC ? I fill finally introduce toonight :)04:17
dholbachWhen is it?04:17
Tonio_dholbach: this time is the good one !04:17
Tonio_today, 21 UTC04:18
dholbachNo, sorry I won't make it. :-/04:18
Tonio_no pb :)04:18
siretartdholbach: did you already get an answer for the pending uvf requests?04:21
dholbachsiretart: nope.04:23
siretartok04:23
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ejofee_will gaim-2.0.0.beta2 (launched several minutes ago) be built for dapper?05:09
\shdholbach: ooqstart is not working...but I can't debug it...how can I start the applet from the console and see what (not) happens05:10
\shejofee_: we are in upstream version freeze period.05:10
\shejofee_: and gaim is IMHO in main, and must be supported for 3 years for dapper, so it's unlikely that a beta will go into dapper...but actually we can think about the final release :)05:10
ogra\sh, it really depends how quick they are to release their final05:12
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ejofee_\sh: what about including both, in parallel? the standard gaim, and a supplementary gaim2 (just like we did with openoffice2)05:12
ograwe wont duplicate apps in main05:12
ejofee_ogra: no, not in main05:13
ograbut in case gaim2 will enter, gaim will move to universe05:13
ejofee_ogra: oh, ubuntu-motu only deals with main?05:13
ogranope05:13
\shejofee_: no...only with universe...but ogra is main :)05:13
ejofee_:)05:13
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ejofee_ogra, \sh: building the gaim beta and making it available could be nice to do, as they don't offer any debian / ubuntu version on their site05:14
\shogra: well...right now gaim is quite stable...and gaim2 is not tested properly for dapper so I think for dapper it can be a nogo for main..but this depends on the exception of gnome uploads I think05:14
\shejofee_: they actually know why :)05:15
ejofee_\sh: they know why? what do you mean?05:15
ejofee_\sh: debianers don't like to be... beta testers?05:15
ogra\sh, its in consideration and will depend on how fast the release their final05:15
\shejofee_: debianers can always compile it from source :)05:16
ogra+putting it in universe *now* not packaged by the future main maintainer would be very silly05:16
ograsince it duplicates work05:16
\shok...I have to go now...05:16
ograso just be patient and poke the gaim2 devs to get the final ready :)05:16
\shcu laters when I'm back at home...around 19 or 20 UTC05:17
\shbye05:17
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bddebianHeya gang05:28
siretarthuhu bddebian !05:31
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bddebianHeya siretart05:33
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raphinkargh05:52
raphinkauto update in debian/rules05:52
raphinkeviiiiiiiiil05:52
Lathiathaha05:52
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raphinkgrr05:54
bddebianHeh05:54
raphinkpff05:55
raphinkhow can Debian packages still use this crap05:55
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raphinkjpatrick: ready for tonight?05:58
jpatrickraphink: yes, sir05:58
raphinkgood :)05:58
raphinkWikiPage ready?05:58
jpatrickNot a lot I can do to it...05:59
raphinkok :)05:59
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raphinklol05:59
stratusraphink,, auto update thing is really evil and ftpmasters aren't accepting NEW packages with that crap.06:01
raphinkyes I know stratus thats why I'm surpsied to find it in a package that comes from Debian06:02
stratusraphink, btw you're free to bug old packages06:02
dholbachraphink: You'd be surprised with a lot of packages. :-)06:02
raphinkyes I guess dholbach06:02
raphinkfor now I'm bumping this one to automake1.906:02
stratusraphink, there's a lot of people in Debian trying to put more than 15000 packages in shape but unfortunately some others don't do the same.06:02
raphinkbecause it build-depends on automake1.606:03
LaserJocklucas: around?06:03
raphinkand the auto update option prevented me from doing so06:03
stratusraphink, bug reports are the best thing to do. With these the DDs that cares about QA can act faster.06:03
raphinkstratus: I'm fixing it in Ubuntu frist06:03
raphinkthen reporting to Debian06:03
raphinkwith the patch06:03
stratusbtw, i already back merged a package from ubuntu with the auto update cdbs thing06:03
stratusof course i get rid of that before uploading it to Debian06:04
raphinksure06:04
raphinkstratus: you're a DD?06:04
stratusraphink, yes like some others around.06:04
raphinkok06:05
raphinkmaybe you could merge this into Debian :)06:05
stratusraphink, sure if you can open a bug report to Debian inform me the bug number or mail me with the details and i'll open the bug and do the rest with the package maintainer, thanks.06:06
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raphinkstratus: shall I open a bug on the BTS and post my debdiff on malone so you can get it and adapt it?06:07
stratusraphink, yes, but you can attach a patch in your BTS report. You even can tag it as containing a patch with what we call a 'pseudo-header' using   Tag: patch06:08
raphinkhmm06:08
raphinkbut I might not put my ubuntu patch directly06:08
raphinkthat wouldn't be appreciated, would it?06:09
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stratusraphink, i think everything will be appreciated with the exception of debian/changelog06:10
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raphinkstratus: so I should remove the debian/changelog part from the patch before submitting?06:10
stratusraphink, yes. You just should list the changes in your bug report (the message body).06:11
raphinkok06:11
stratusraphink, thanks06:11
stratusraphink, any problem ask me. I hope it will be easier to you merge changes with the next package in Debian.06:12
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LaserJockhhmm, I think it might be useful to do a motu-school session on bug reporting and interaction with Debian for MOTU(Hopefuls)06:17
bddebianHmm, I think I might be worthless :'-(06:19
raphinkhmm06:19
raphinkjust commited the change but ....06:19
lucasLaserJock: pong06:19
raphinkstratus: it seems this package was bumped from Debian in the meanwhile06:19
stratusraphink, which package?06:19
raphinkkboincspy-cvs06:20
raphinkkboincspy is still in both ubuntu and debian06:20
raphinkbut kboincspy-cvs is a cvs snapshot06:20
LaserJocklucas: I was reading your DCT and utnubu-discuss stuff. Do you think that you can get many DDs to accept the DCT?06:20
raphinklast version merged from Debian is from march 200506:20
raphinkand it doesn't exist in sid anymore06:20
lucasLaserJock: my problem now is to get many ubuntu devs to participate06:20
lucasregarding DDs, probabl06:20
lucasy06:20
stratusraphink, looking..06:21
raphinkstratus: sure :)06:21
LaserJockhmm, I'm really stuggling to understand this issue06:21
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tsengLaserJock: you can struggle forever06:23
tsengLaserJock: if you make one set of DD's stop complaining, you will piss off another06:23
tsengsee multiple opinions on Maintainer: field or what have you06:24
teprrrhmm.06:24
LaserJocktseng: true, I just am trying to find my place in all of this. I have never done much with Debian. Ubuntu has been my first real .deb experience.06:24
minghuaLaserJock: Do you keep track of our feedback on science-related packages?06:24
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LaserJockminghua: what do you mean by feedback?06:24
minghuaLaserJock: I was thinking of using the usertag in Debian BTS to track this06:24
azeemminghua: how?06:25
minghuaLaserJock: I mean ITP/RFP and bug reports for Debian06:25
raphinkhmm kvpnc was nuked from sid, too stratus. But we still maintain it in Ubuntu, even recently06:25
azeemah06:25
minghuaLaserJock: we keep doing good feedback for, say, three months, then after that we can point people to some pages and say:06:25
raphinkor maybe it never was in Debian06:26
LaserJockI would like to keep track of things but I really don't know how to work with Debian very well and it seems like all of these discussions assume it is a lack of interest that is the problem and not a lack of know-how, which is my problem06:26
stratusraphink, yes that -cvs package was removed the kboincspy maintainer was maintaining kboincspy-cvs too but opted to keep just the releases and not follow the cvs anymore.06:26
raphinkstratus: so shall we nuke it too?06:26
minghuathese are what we have done for the past months, we reported X bugs, and Y of them got fixed, Z of them got response from Debian maintainer and the rest are simply ignored06:26
minghuaLaserJock: I would volunteer to do that06:27
stratusraphink, i think it's with dholbach or ogra but if you don't have a fork of the package in my opinion yes.06:27
minghuaLaserJock: and write a small howto to motu-science list06:27
azeemminghua: that is not different w.g. with bugs reported against GNOME's bugzilla06:27
LaserJockminghua: right, I would really love to seem some actual numbers06:27
azeemeh, s/w.g./e.g./06:27
lucasLaserJock: that's one of the goals of DCT06:27
minghuaLaserJock: I just need to know what we did from you :-)06:27
lucaswork only with maintainers who care06:27
minghuaazeem: I just want to provide some data to DDs, at least the debian-science list06:28
minghuaazeem: and show them we tried to contribute back06:28
minghuaif the number of bugs getting ignored is too large, then at least on next flamewar they can't blame everything on ubuntu06:29
LaserJockI'm working on writing up a MOTU Science Update to send to debian-science with stuff that we've done and where we currently are06:29
minghuaLaserJock: do you like that idea?06:29
LaserJockminghua: I do, I just need to get some ideas put together.06:29
minghuaLaserJock: I'll starting doing that tomorrow then.  Today is for the CC meeting :-)06:30
LaserJockminghua: going for membership?06:30
minghuayes.  and speaking of that, any MOTU would show up and be my advocate? :-)06:31
LaserJockminghua: when is the meeting?06:31
minghua21:00 UTC06:31
azeemminghua: are you reporting bugs, or sending patches?06:32
minghuaazeem: about the usertag thing?06:32
lucasminghua: what's your wiki homepage ?06:32
LaserJockminghua: I can probably be there. I'm no MOTU but I can at least say something.06:32
minghualucas: /MingHua06:32
azeemminghua: no, I mean about those numbers of bugs being ignored by DDs06:32
minghuaI finished most of my wiki page, the "future plan" part still need work though06:33
minghuaazeem: my plan is basically tracking all ITPs/bugs/patches with usertag, so we can easily see them in one page06:34
lucas"and is generally " => and am generally"06:34
azeemminghua: well, ok.  That is a good thing in general of course06:34
minghuaazeem: then it should be easy to categorized finer06:34
raphinkouch06:34
raphinkis that really allowed ? http://pastebin.com/520860 ...06:34
lucasminghua: I'm not sure where that's the way to go (usertags)06:35
lucasthey are cool, but they lack some info06:35
azeemraphink: which part?06:35
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raphinkazeem: the download part06:35
minghualucas: thanks.  what info do you think is lacking?06:35
azeemget-orig-source is not called by dpkg-buildpackage06:35
raphinkget-orig-source06:36
azeemit is just a convenience I guess06:36
raphinkthen what is it?06:36
raphinka convenience?06:36
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lucasminghua: the global view06:36
azeemraphink: an easy way to get the source for the maintainer06:37
LaserJockminghua: well, I think that MOTUScience could be a good example of Ubuntu contribution to Debian and having a good working relationship but I think we need more info and tools06:37
raphinkhmmpf06:37
lucasbut I have to write the spec for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT/SpecDatabase06:37
raphinkok06:37
lucasi'll have to think about it06:37
azeemraphink: the upstream source is provided as .bz2, so they need to repack it to .orig.gz anyway06:37
raphinkyes06:37
minghualucas: I am writing the "plans" part, and I will give a more general view there.  I hope you can review that again when I finsh.  Thanks.06:38
minghuaLaserJock: I am doing what I can think of / capable of doing06:38
lucasok06:38
minghuaLaserJock: I'll worry about the big picture later :-)06:39
LaserJockminghua: well, *we* need to do that, perhaps we should have a MOTUScience meeting some time06:40
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LaserJockbut I do think in general a good motu-school session on working with Bugs would be nice06:42
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minghuaLaserJock: my problem is I don't have much time for planning/organizing06:44
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minghuaLaserJock: I want to do this because (1) I want to make MOTUScience a good example of Ubuntu-Debian collaboration, and this help that goal; and (2) I want to learn using usertags of Debian BTS06:45
LaserJockminghua: well, I think I can do a fair amount of that, but I need to get feedback and info from those smarter than myself ( especially on the Debian side)06:45
pefhello06:45
minghuaLaserJock: I'll write what I did and what others can benefit to motu-science list06:45
minghuaLaserJock: then let's see if other people like my idea / what I've done06:46
LaserJockminghua: ok, I gotta push out some attempt at least of Packaging Guide today for the docteam but I will also try to put together some thoughts about MOTUScience06:46
LaserJockminghua: sounds good06:46
minghuaLaserJock: no hurries :-)  If you feel the work with docteam is more important, by all means concentrate on that06:47
LaserJockbut already the package lists I made have been useful06:47
LaserJocksince I got them going we have been able to fix a few packages, get ITPs, found out we need to remove a couple.06:48
LaserJockand now I can see what packages we can sync/merge without breaking UVF06:48
LaserJockwe had 9 packages (out of ~450 I think) that were in Ubuntu but not in Debian, shortly we will have only 2-4 and we have added 4 new packages to Debian06:50
bddebianNice06:51
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LaserJockBut it wasn't terribly hard, I just needed to be able to see what was going on. (Thanks lucas for mdt)06:53
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LaserJockI really think the big thing is working with our differences in release and maintaintership06:58
LaserJockthere are times when we need to do things fast (UVF for example) and Debian doesn't have that pressure. In debian, for the most part, as long as all the DDs do there job everything is in good shape.06:59
LaserJockbut in Ubuntu, a package can get neglected pretty easily if a DD is not taking care of it because of our team maintainership06:59
LaserJockor if it is not in Debian07:00
LaserJockbut then I'm not very knowledgable about these things and I'm just trying to figure these things out in my own mind07:01
minghualucas: Just finished my wiki page.  Can you look at it again?  Thanks.07:06
lucasminghua: good07:08
lucasI usually like to see some keywords in bold07:09
lucas(for example, the Plans part is quite long, putting some keywords in perspective might help)07:09
minghualucas: you mean in the "plans" part, to show the focus of my interests?07:09
lucasyes07:09
minghualucas: will do that, thanks for the review and comments07:09
minghuasome keywords / key phrases made bold07:17
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lucasperfect :)07:19
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dholbachSee you tomorrow - bye!07:48
LaserJockhmm, if xchat-gnome had better handling of the user list I'd be inclined to use it :(07:48
LaserJockdholbach: cya07:48
bddebianLater dholbach07:49
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Kyralminghua isn't a memeber?07:59
Seveasraphink, poke08:00
LaserJockKyral: guess not08:00
Kyraldaamn08:00
Kyralnow I have 3 people I'm vouching for lol08:00
LaserJockKyral: CC is in 2 hours right?08:02
crimsun1 hr08:02
crimsunhmph, 2 hrs, but fridge reports 1 hr08:03
KyralLaserJock: I think its variabl08:05
LaserJockcrimsun: cause it is 1hr and 55 min which it takes as 1hr08:05
crimsunsilly rounding08:06
LaserJockyep08:06
LaserJockKyral: what do you mean variable?08:06
Kyrallike whenever they are done they are done :P08:06
LaserJockKyral: I was just trying to figure out when it started08:07
LaserJockthank goodness for "date -u"08:07
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minghuaKyral: no, not yet08:13
crimsunI'm happy to vouch for you08:15
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crimsunthough I think your current scim (both in Debian and in Ubuntu) work speaks for itself08:16
minghuacrimsun: great, thanks!08:16
minghuaKyral: and thank you for vouching for me too08:16
minghuaI would hope so, but I think CC usually take MOTU's opinion seriously if I am going to touch universe packages08:18
minghuaand it's never bad to have advocates :-)08:18
Kyrallol08:20
LaserJockminghua: becoming a member isn't too tough, I think the TB is much tougher on MOTU candidates08:20
LaserJockminghua: basically, if youv'e been working on Ubuntu for >= 2 months membership isn't too bad08:20
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KyralLook at the cute puppy NOW! ;P08:21
Kyralhttp://azuredream.homelinux.org/blog/08:21
LaserJockKyral: lol, my wife would love that dog08:23
KyralHe never stops lol08:23
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minghuacute puppy08:29
minghuaLaserJock: yeah, I can imagine, but I plan to apply for MOTU soon, too08:29
minghuait won't hurt to try, I suppose08:29
minghuaand at least they would tell me which area I should do more08:30
LaserJockI'm thinking about it as well08:30
\shraphink: why didn't you update debian/control.in to use automake1.9 in kboincspy-cvs?08:30
KyralI'm not ready to be MOTU08:31
=== bddebian isn't either ;-)
Kyralpfft08:32
\shbddebian: wasn't, barry, wasn't..you are already one :) and I hope you will rock during dapper+1 again :)08:32
LaserJockKyral: I'm not sure if I am but it would be at least good to see where I am at.08:32
Kyrallol08:32
KyralLaserJock: I plan to try during Dapper + 108:33
KyralRight now I'm glad GTKEdit is in Dapper now08:33
bddebian\sh: I was but now I suck :'-(08:34
LaserJockI have always looked at it this way, when not being a MOTU is getting in the way of me getting work done then maybe it is time to become a MOTU08:34
LaserJockI think I am starting to get to that point in some areas (mostly in MOTUScience)08:35
\shbddebian: hey, easy, call a lawyer, tell him you want to be getting divorced, and you are not the father of those children, and actually, you don't want your job either...the lawyer can help *lol*08:35
ajmitch_morning all08:35
LaserJockhi ajmitch_08:35
tsenghi ajmitch_08:35
\shbddebian: after this call, you will have a lot of time for MOTU, i mean, no fun anymore, but time for MOTU :)08:35
bddebian\sh: Heh, I wish :-)08:35
bddebianThe job part anyway08:36
bddebianHeya ajmitch_08:36
ajmitch_\sh: well that's about where I am at the moment ;)08:36
ajmitch_\sh: thanks for the qt4 upload ;)08:36
\shwell...I was sitting today, the first time since >1 month, in an office again...and it was good to have people around me...and I was more productive somehow for motu since the last couple of weeks08:37
ajmitch_\sh: now I should be able to grab it before the tutorial in ~90min08:37
\shajmitch_: which tutorial?08:37
ajmitch_http://lca2006.linux.org.au/abstract.php?id=37908:37
\shajmitch_: that's more then cool...is anybody recording it on tape or digital as mpg?08:39
ajmitch_yes08:39
\shajmitch_: much cooler...08:39
ajmitch_all going to a nice 5TB RAID box :)08:40
\shajmitch_: I would be in need of this session somehow...and my wish is to attend it...it could be very interesting :)08:40
ajmitch_it should be online in a few days, I guess08:40
\shbut sadly I'm nut in dunedin :(08:40
\shi'm not even08:41
\shnot nut :)08:41
ajmitch_well... ;)08:42
=== ajmitch_ thinks anyone must be crazy in a way to be a MOTU
LaserJock+1 :-)08:42
=== \sh is not crazy, but totally insane
tsengyou know pappy08:43
tsengof course you are08:43
\shtseng: bah...thx08:44
ajmitch_hehe08:44
ajmitch_ok, time for me to get back down to the conference08:44
\shtseng: this comparison .... *beserk&08:45
\shkillall -9 tseng08:46
tsenghm08:46
\shmv /been/tseng /dev/null *harhar* :)08:46
bddebianheh08:46
=== tseng SIGTERM
\shtseng: you can't compare me with pappy :) please :) Now I'm crying08:47
tsengit was a joke08:47
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\shtseng: come on....don't you see my invisible ;)08:48
tsengja08:49
bddebianWho is pappy?08:50
tsenghe is a nut08:50
bddebianSo am I, so what are you saying? :)08:51
tsengyou arent in the same weight class08:51
bddebianI have just been a fucking worthless nut for dapper :'-(08:52
\shbddebian: believe me you are not :) because of this guy I had a muzzle on #ubuntu-devel08:52
\shbddebian: directly from mdz...that was I think before my time being a member or motu...I don't remember anymore08:53
bddebian:-)08:53
bddebianThey just ignore me on -devel ;-)08:53
minghuabddebian: you are not, I still saw your changelog entries when I did merging for dapper :-)08:54
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bddebianSo what can/should I be working on if I get time? :-)08:59
ograbugs and reviews09:00
=== bddebian can't do reviews :-)
bddebianAre merges all done?09:02
crimsun99%09:02
crimsunall the ones I've touched that don't need a newer upstream are done, at least09:03
bddebiancrimsun: Because you ROCK honey :-)09:04
crimsunwe all do :-)09:04
=== bddebian doesn't this go-round :-(
crimsunbah, you had excess from breezy ;-)09:07
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KyralI'll be back in time for the Meeting09:10
sivangKyral: MOTU meeting I suppose?09:13
LaserJocksivang: CC09:13
=== sivang pokes the fridge
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\shhmmm...anyone here with breezy?09:40
\shand have to time to check https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/29453 ?09:40
UbugtuMalone bug 29453: "Installing programs" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed09:40
bddebianSorry, Dapper only :-(09:42
minghuahehe, that's the problem of a dev team :-)09:43
minghuaI have a few bugs I would like to test on breezy too09:43
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minghuamaybe I'll install one after feature freeze09:43
LaserJockI have a breezy chroot09:43
LaserJockalthough now AMD6409:45
LaserJocks/now/no/09:45
\shLaserJock: doesn't matter can you try it? I would have to regenerate my breezy i386 chroot frst09:46
LaserJock\sh: I'll see what I can do09:46
LaserJock\sh: I just need to install lilypond?09:47
\shlilypond-data and look postinst message09:47
LaserJock\sh: ok I did "sudo apt-get install lilypond" and I don't get any error for lilypond-data (2.2.6-2)09:51
LaserJock\sh: I just get : Running /usr/bin/mktexlsr /usr/share/texmf...09:51
LaserJockmktexlsr: Updating /var/lib/texmf/ls-R-TEXMFMAIN...09:51
LaserJockmktexlsr: Done.09:51
LaserJock GNU LilyPond configuration completed.09:51
LaserJock Please read /usr/share/doc/lilypond/README.Debian to get started.09:51
\shLaserJock: grmp...then I have to regenerate my breezy chroots...give me a couple of mins09:53
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\shslomo: ping10:38
\shor anyone else: did anyone tried to play matroska files with vlc?10:39
KyralI have10:39
\shand?10:39
Kyralyou need libmatroska10:39
Kyralor somesuch10:39
\shwe have libmatroska-dev with static libs..and vlc is compiled to support it...but it breaks with a nice glibc message10:40
Kyraloh10:40
Kyralhaven't tried recently ;P10:40
\shtrying to recompile :)10:40
KyralIt worked a couple months ago though10:40
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\shslomo: I'm trying to get vlc buildable again (removing xlibs-static-pic)11:06
\sh.oO(but some rationale why vlc needs a gcc-snapshot and not the normal toolchain gcc?)11:09
minghuanothing written in the changelog?11:18
=== minghua wonders what it needs from gcc 4.1
\shBuild-depend on gcc-snapshot on i386 and amd64, because currently only11:21
\sh      that version of gcc properly builds some of the MMX modules.11:21
\shminghua: changelog says:11:21
minghuahmm, interesting11:23
minghuait better be a recent changelog11:23
minghuaas the version of gcc-snapshots keeps changing11:24
\shminghua: 20 sep 200511:24
minghuafair enough then, sounds the debian maintainer has a good reason11:24
\shminghua: when I build it now, and tested it, I will try tomorrow to build it with just our toolchain compiler suite...until slomo will say something else...because he is my expert in things like video / sound packages ;)11:26
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minghua\sh: sure, I would like to see it use gcc instead of gcc-snapshot, too11:28
\shminghua: sure..right now I'm fixing some other bugs like missing mozilla-dev or something like this11:30
\shbuild run no. 211:30
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KyralDrinks on Tonio_11:53
Kyral;P11:53
=== Kyral hugs Tonio_ too
Tonio_hehe, thanks Kyral ;)11:53
KyralSo when MOTU :P11:54
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LaserJockminghua: one last upload before CC? ;-)11:55
minghuaLaserJock: from me?11:56
minghuaLaserJock: ah, somebody else asked for the sync :-)11:56
ogra_finally11:58
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ogra_i was waiting for it already, i asked on UVF day and elmo didnt have your mail address :)11:58
Kyralminghua you should get in easy as well11:58
minghuaOh ogra it's you, thanks a lot11:59
minghuanow I should go write the scim-tables UVF exception report :-)11:59
ogra_yeah12:00
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