[12:20] <poningru> what products need testing right now?
[12:20] <poningru> like really lack testers
[12:21] <\sh> edubuntu, kubuntu (install and live)
[12:28] <ogra> yay, dbus built !!!
[12:28] <ogra> finally :)
[12:31] <mjg59> Hurrah
[12:31] <mjg59> Now test it :)
[12:31] <Kamion> poningru: DVD images
[12:32] <ogra> mjg59, will do as sson as it hits the archive ...
[12:53] <ogra> updates take forever here since a while :/
[12:54] <\sh> ogra: don't complain i'm compiling vlc the 5th time now...and I'm going mad with this mozilla vlc plugin...#
[12:54] <\sh> and building in a amd64 dapper chroot in i386 mode doesn't work
[12:54] <ogra> \sh, i had to update 240 packages yesterday ...
[12:54] <ogra> it took 4h
[12:54] <ogra> (20 min download time) 
[12:55] <\sh> ogra: you mean "download, unpacking, installing"? 
[12:55] <ogra> there is certainly something wrong with gconf currently
[12:55] <\sh> ogra: well..240 packages in one go makes this little portege so hot :)
[12:55] <seb128> patches are welcome
[12:56] <ogra> 20min download,  3:40 unpacking, installing
[12:56] <seb128> that's not likely to be due to gconf
[12:56] <ogra> seb128, i'll be annoyed enough to look into it soon
[12:56] <ogra> gconftool is seldom below 80% CPU utilisation
[12:57] <seb128> for 3 hours in a row?
[12:57] <ogra> and thats where it hangs ... for minutes 
[12:57] <seb128> right, there is some slowdown issue atm, I think it's due to the base merge
[12:57] <ogra> i stopwatched 5min for the worst package 
[12:57] <seb128> but 3 hours, hum
[12:57] <ogra> some go through in 1min
[12:57] <seb128> what kind of box is that?
[12:57] <ogra> ibook
[12:58] <ogra> G4 1.33, 1Gig
[12:58] <seb128> what package did 5min?
[12:58] <\sh> well...I have to go to bed...tomorrow there will be a commercial being spread all over germany via mtv and viva...and I promised george to take care about his little quad xeon babies
[12:58] <ogra> phew, you can ask funny stuff ...
[12:58] <\sh> or better today
[12:58] <ogra> something with gnome-
[12:58] <ogra> panel or session iirc
[12:59] <seb128> applets would be most likely to take some time
[12:59] <ogra> might also have been panel-data
[12:59] <ogra> or that,  yes
[12:59] <seb128> session has almost no gconf keys and panel not that much
[12:59] <seb128> anyway it's on my list but low priority
[01:00] <ogra> i'd have guessed that it has to do with the gconf change, but this box is a flight2 install, there cant be any old gconf stuff
[01:01] <seb128> I think that's due to the schemas registration
[01:01] <seb128> new install or upgrade that's the same amonth of packages/schemas you get
[01:01] <ogra> i doubt it will disappear magically
[01:02] <seb128> me too
[01:02] <ogra> we have time to solve it after feature freeze :)
[01:02] <seb128> that's not a feature to fix that
[01:02] <ogra> it just *feels* like its getting worse
[01:02] <seb128> I don't think so
[01:02] <ogra> thus the *'s
[01:04] <robertj> has shipping with pam_tally configured by default been discussed?
[01:04] <seb128> not that I know of
[01:05] <robertj> does it seem like a good idea?
[01:05] <seb128> don't ask me
[01:05] <seb128> I don't use  pam stuff :)
[01:05] <robertj> err..?
[01:05] <seb128> you should probably mail the list about that
[01:05] <seb128> s/use/work on
[01:05] <robertj> hehe
[01:07] <seb128> anyway time to sleep here
[01:27] <ogra_ibook> mpfh
[01:27] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk broke my wlan :(
[01:28] <ogra> mjg59, suspend works fine, now the acpi-scripts need to learn not to override g-p-m, the lid switch selection still doesnt do what it should ...
[01:30] <ogra> hmm, why dont i have any sound anymore ...
[01:31] <robertj> while I am typing up this email should I bother to mention cracklib for outward facing services?
[02:48] <mjg59> ogra: The scripts /ought/ to do the right thing if g-p-m is running, I think
[02:48] <mjg59> But yeah, that needs revamping
[02:50] <ogra> i can select "do nothing" for the lid, but it still suspends
[02:51] <ogra> but thats on ppc, most likely pbuttonsd's fault 
[02:59] <mjg59> Yeah, that'll be pbuttonsd
[02:59] <mjg59> Does hal send an event on PPC lid close?
[02:59] <mjg59> If so, we should probably just drop it
[02:59] <ogra> would be nice to have it configurable ...
[03:04] <ogra> hmm, dbus-monitor doesnt say anything ...
[03:08] <mjg59> Rather, drop pbuttonsd
[03:09] <mjg59> Bleah. I'll look into it
[03:38] <HiddenWolf> Why does my dapper-live daily start bittorrentd?
[03:38] <bddebian> Ack, where to the mime xml files go..
[04:20] <spstarr_home> have we fixed murasaki to work in dapper yet, it seems to be rather raw right now, since hotplug appears broke right now. (perhaps rename it BACK to hotplug since it makes more sense?)
[04:26] <spstarr_home> its not like the average joe is going to know what murasaki is it certainly doesn't tell me its a hotplug implementation :)
[05:13] <lamont> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[05:13] <lamont>   keymapper: Depends: xlibs but it is not installable
[05:13] <lamont> E: Broken packages
[05:14] <bddebian> Kick it harder
[05:17] <StevenK> lamont: Can you tell me why the new version of quodlibet hasn't been tried on the buildds?
[05:18] <bddebian> StevenK: What version?
[05:19] <lamont> StevenK: according to people.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/dapper.all.i386:
[05:19] <lamont> universe/sound/quodlibet_0.17-1ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd+rothera [optional:out-of-date] 
[05:19] <lamont>   Dependencies: debhelper (>= 5.0.17)
[05:19] <lamont> does this mean you changed the build-dep on debhelper in your upload?
[05:19] <lamont> (dep-waits stay until either they're really satisfied, or infinity/I clear them.)
[05:21] <bddebian> Doh, I was looking at breezy build logs.. What a dolt
[05:22] <lamont>   xmkmf: Depends: imake but it is not going to be installed
[05:22] <lamont>   imake: Conflicts: xmkmf
[05:22] <lamont> oh, now _that's_ funny.
[05:24] <bddebian> xmkmf sucks anyhow :-)
[05:24] <lamont> yeah, but it really shouldn't conflict with something that depends on it...
[05:24] <lamont> or vice versa
[05:24] <bddebian> Aye, good point :-)
[05:25] <lamont> otoh, tex-guy is the only ftbfs that seems to have resulted ATM.
[05:26] <bddebian> ??
[05:26] <lamont> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[05:26] <lamont>   xmkmf: Depends: imake but it is not going to be installed
[05:26] <lamont>   xutils: Depends: imake but it is not going to be installed
[05:26] <lamont> that's from the hppa log for tex-guy
[05:27] <bddebian> Ahh
[05:28] <bddebian> Sheesh, do I really need to do a dpatch just to add { } to an else??
[05:37] <StevenK> lamont: Sorry, I was working. Yes, my upload changed the depends, so can you clear the Dep-Wait?
[05:37] <lamont> StevenK: will do
[05:37] <StevenK> lamont: Thanks
[05:38] <lamont> done
[05:51] <HiddenWolf> My media keys stopped working on dapper. Which package can I blame?
[07:33] <Burgundavia> marilize, long time, no see
[07:34] <viviersf> hmmm prolly leave 
[07:37] <marilize> Burgundavia: hey mr burger, how are you?
[07:37] <Burgundavia> marilize, not bad. Banging my head away at writing
[07:37] <Burgundavia> marilize, when do you start shipping dapper stuff?
[07:38] <Burgundavia> marilize, can I get cds for April 30th?
[07:38] <marilize> burgundavia: dont bang too hard :)  your a bit fast for us, not date yet...
[07:38] <marilize> not sure
[07:38] <marilize> it will be towards the end of april, but I'm not sure yet 
[07:40] <jsgotangco> mmm?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco 
[07:41] <jsgotangco> hey Corey
[07:41] <jsgotangco> heya sabdfl 
[07:41] <sabdfl> hiya
[07:42] <sabdfl> ran into colin charles yesterday in singapore
[07:42] <sabdfl> v cool to see him again
[07:42] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: oh sweet how's singapore?
[07:42] <lifeless> its a small small world
[07:42] <sabdfl> dunno. i'm now in new zealand ;-)
[07:42] <jsgotangco> i thought he was still in au
[07:42] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:42] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: see you in a week then
[07:43] <sabdfl> absoloodle!
[07:45] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, is the next development conference expected in middle may?
[07:47] <jsgotangco> where will that be?
[07:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, rumours of germany were swirling at UBZ
[07:47] <jsgotangco> oh :/
[07:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I wouldn't bet my house on germany
[07:51] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: yes, may, and germany was pretty solid till the world cup turned out to make it trickier than expected
[07:51] <sabdfl> anybody know how to get networkmanager running?
[07:51] <sabdfl> how do I may the daemon start by default?
[07:52] <jsgotangco> i add the nm-applet on startup
[07:55] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: what i did before after installing is restart dbus then add nm-applet on gnome startup
[07:56] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, oh ick, I forgot about bloody football. All those english hooligans will make it hard to code
[07:57] <ajmitch> eveningall
[07:57] <Burgundavia> salut ajmitch 
[07:57] <jsgotangco> heya ajmitch 
[07:57] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, when is the formal announcement expected to be made?
[07:59] <jsgotangco> wow
[07:59] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, some unexpected money
[07:59] <ajmitch> great :)
[07:59] <ajmitch> I doubt I'll make it to the next one without help
[07:59] <Burgundavia> of course, I should be paying off my student loan with it, but meh
[08:00] <ajmitch> heh
[08:00] <Burgundavia> sales jobs have things called commissions for those things
[08:04] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: i get an error
[08:04] <sabdfl> The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources. It cannot continue.
[08:04] <sabdfl> useful, innit
[08:04] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, welcome to NM. Shall we ship it with dapper then?
[08:06] <sabdfl> hey pitti
[08:06] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: maaayybe :-)
[08:06] <sabdfl> i think it just killed my network connection
[08:06] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: strange, i got it working just now
[08:06] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, it will get your name resolution next, just for fun
[08:07] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: yes, that's the symptom i saw
[08:07] <torkel> it might need to be upgraded due to the recent dbus/hal/... changes
[08:07] <sabdfl> torkel: it has always failed for me
[08:08] <sabdfl> i suspect that my network config has been upgraded too many times for it
[08:08] <jsgotangco> i didnt have problems on it with breezy and dapper :/
[08:08] <Burgundavia> pitti, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/utopia-list/2006-January/msg00022.html <-- is this debate resolved? (specifically the part about hte usb and owning hte box)
[08:08] <torkel> sabdfl: it worked for me until a week ago or something
[08:08] <jsgotangco> although haven't tested on the recent milestone
[08:13] <sabdfl> how does starting nm-applet fire up NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher as root?
[08:15] <lifeless> dbus
[08:15] <torkel> it is dbus that starts NetworkManager iirc
[08:15] <lifeless> the magic off
[08:15] <sabdfl> is it possible to know that NetworkManager is working even if nm-applet is throwing up errors and not a panel icon?
[08:16] <torkel> is it running att all?
[08:16] <sabdfl> torkel: if I run nm-applet from the command line then I get a NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher processes
[08:17] <sabdfl> nothing shows up on the panel
[08:17] <vuntz> sabdfl: do you have a notification area?
[08:17] <sabdfl> vuntz: yes, believe so. i see gaim icn and restart icon when necessary
[08:18] <vuntz> maybe network-manager doesn't control any interface and so nm-applet feels it doesn't have to show an icon
[08:18] <vuntz> I guess this can happen if your interfaces are already configured
[08:18] <vuntz> (just a guess, though)
[08:19] <sabdfl> should i try ifdown'ing them all and then running nm-applet?
[08:19] <torkel> sabdfl: try restarting dbus - /etc/init.d/dbus restart
[08:19] <vuntz> I'd try this and I'd comment everything in /etc/network/interfaces too, just to be sure
[08:19] <vuntz> but I'm not saying it will help :-)
[08:20] <jsgotangco> hmm it just killed networking in my other box
[08:20] <torkel> after restarting dbus nm-applet works for me again
[08:22] <whiprush> jsgotangco: dude check out planet.u.com, an awesome opportunity landed in my lap!
[08:22] <whiprush> sabdfl: you too!
[08:22] <jsgotangco> whiprush: please don't abuse your puppy
[08:23] <whiprush> I've found that rebooting the machine after installing nm worked for me
[08:23] <jsgotangco> he that's pretty long
[08:23] <whiprush> after that firing up nm-applet and saving the session did the trick
[08:23] <whiprush> afterwards the applet just fires up on login and connects.
[08:25] <robitaille> same here.  nm always worked better after one initial reboot to "settle" the applet in my configuration
[08:25] <whiprush> robitaille: yeah, the restarting thing never seemed to work for me, always just rebooted to get it working right.
[08:26] <whiprush> once you get nm-applet in your session it works great (there's an upstream bug on this I don't recall)
[08:27] <robitaille> I have been using nm daily on my laptop since christmas, and I have been pretty happy with it, switching regularly between my wired and my wireless.
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> I use a shell script
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> I have several different wired and wireless networks
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> as well as vpns that start
[08:29] <whiprush> n-m has a long way to go outside of the "I'm just some guy with a wifi card" use case.
[08:29] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:29] <whiprush> I'm sure keybuk has a list about 2 miles long about that.
[08:35] <jsgotangco> whiprush: that project sure is exciting
[08:36] <whiprush> jsgotangco: I'm hoping.
[08:36] <ajmitch> hey whiprush, jsgotangco 
[08:36] <whiprush> hi aj
[08:36] <Ibalon> heya ajmitch 
[08:37] <ajmitch> hello Ibalon 
[08:37] <jsgotangco> why does nm insist on changing my dns to loopback?
[08:37] <Ibalon> nm?
[08:37] <jsgotangco> Ibalon: network-manager
[08:37] <whiprush> jsgotangco: if anything, it teaches me that you don't know jack about you don't know jack about your local area, even if you think you do. :D
[08:38] <Ibalon> ah
[08:38] <whiprush> and whoa that sentence came out all wrong
[08:38] <whiprush> but you get the idea.
[08:38] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: it uses a local dns server
[08:40] <jsgotangco> Good News Gang heh
[08:47] <Burgundavia> whiprush, indeed
[08:49] <Burgundavia> whiprush, damn you make me jealous
[08:49] <jsgotangco> it does?
[08:49] <whiprush> Burgundavia: not really. If I fail then I suck. :p
[08:50] <Burgundavia> I feel like such a pathetic fool. I organized an installfest last Sat. and only 6 people showed up
[08:50] <jsgotangco> hey
[08:50] <jsgotangco> don't count out those 6
[08:50] <jsgotangco> they still came
[08:50] <whiprush> indeed.
[08:50] <Burgundavia> my local lug is a bunch of layabouts who would rather eat at boston pizza
[08:51] <jsgotangco> then why not do it at boston pizza
[08:51] <Burgundavia> rofl
[08:51] <Burgundavia> but I have an idea, my brain is already turning
[08:53] <ejofee> what do you people think about including mc (or mc-light) as a console fail-back, for the rescuing situations or for the cases when the live can't reach the graphical user interface (which sometimes does happen); it is very newbye-friendly and many win98 users will prefer it, as it very much resembles nc (norton commander) or dn (dos navigator). we can use this until we have better rescuing tools. (i mean... just imagine a newbye for which x1
[08:53] <ejofee> n bash.)
[08:54] <Burgundavia> ejofee, lucas meant the mailing list
[08:58] <ejofee> Burgundavia: ... right. there was an "@", not an "#", indeed...
[09:03] <Burgundavia> whiprush, the ubuntu youth project is really cool glueing together of existing organizations
[10:19] <dholbach> good morning
[10:21] <mdz> doko: please copy Colin on exception requests
[10:23] <doko> mdz: ok
[10:23] <doko> this one as well?
[10:29] <mdz> doko: all of them
[10:37] <hunger> Any chance of getting tar -c support into the rescue environment of the dapper CDs?
[10:38] <hunger> A rescue env in which you can not tar up important files is somewhat limited.
[10:40] <Kamion> depends how much extra space it takes in the busybox binary, really
[10:40] <Kamion> I'm not sure CONFIG_FEATURE_TAR_CREATE has been tested much either
[10:40] <hunger> frogzo1: Yes, that works everywhere but in busybox (== the rescue env):-(
[10:41] <hunger> frogzo1: busybox does not support the -c option of thar.:-(
[10:41] <hunger> frogzo1: I am running as root, so -p is used even if I do not give it explizitly.
[10:42] <Kamion> I don't know who you're talking to, but they must be on a different channel.
[10:42] <hunger> Kamion: sorry!
[10:42] <Kamion> any reason you can't just use the tar in /target?
[10:42] <Ibalon> lol
[10:43] <Kamion> /target/bin/tar -cf foo.tar /target/bar
[10:44] <hunger> This bitchx makes me confuse channels all the time... unfortunately it is the only thing I can run on the server with proper internet connection.
[10:49] <Simira> wow
[10:58] <\sh> that libnotify1 has problems while unpacking because of conflicts, is known?
[10:58] <Kamion> yeah
[10:58] <Kamion> (#29600)
[11:02] <Simira> Tollef's plain left almost on time!
[11:02] <Kinnison> hehe
[11:02] <\sh> well I should read the bugs folder first before I start drinking a coffee
[11:03] <Simira> Kinnison : good! I started in my new job today. Norway's largest provider of linux services (sertifications, support, network/software solutions +++)
[11:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: multiverse isn't handled by apt-setup?
[11:05] <Kamion> tepsipakki: nope
[11:05] <hunger> Today bringing up network interfaces is broken even more then yesterday. Is this already known or should I write bugreports?
[11:05] <Kamion> multiverse scares me too much
[11:06] <tepsipakki> kamion: would you accept a patch to allow preseeding it?-)
[11:06] <Simira> Kinnison : how are you today? Going to London soon?
[11:06] <Kamion> tepsipakki: maybe
[11:06] <hunger> Isen't there supposed to be /var/run on tmpfs nowadays?
[11:07] <Kamion> tepsipakki: I think it'd be ok as long as it doesn't end up in the default sources.list (even commented) if you don't preseed it
[11:08] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok
[11:09] <\sh> oh when the londong dev sprint starts?
[11:09] <Simira> \sh: Monday officially, I think. Tollef's off today.
[11:11] <Kinnison> Simira: I'm in London already at a soyuz sprint
[11:11] <Simira> Kinnison : oh, nice. Are you staying at the same place as Tollef, Adam and others, then?
[11:12] <Kinnison> Simira: No, I'm on the soyuz deployment sprint this week, then I head back home
[11:12] <Kinnison> Simira: Oh yeah, and I've sold my house \o/
[11:13] <Simira> ah, of course
[11:13] <Simira> Kinnison : yay! And now you're rich?
[11:14] <Kinnison> Simira: No, 'cos I bought a new house too
[11:14] <Simira> Kinnison : oh. A nice one then?
[11:14] <hunger> [ -d /var/run ]  || mkdir /var/run can not work while / is still mounted ro!
[11:14] <Kinnison> Simira: Similar size to my current house. Different area
[11:15] <Simira> Kinnison : more expensive, you mean :) I so want to move to England. Trying to convince Tollef to buy a summer house in the southern parts.
[11:16] <Kinnison> Simira: *grin*
[11:17] <tepsipakki> kamion: oh, how about those patches I sent to debian-boot, apt-setup/local[0-9]  etc? No-one commented on the newer patches
[11:18] <Kamion> tepsipakki: my first thought was "hmm, I didn't expect quite so many templates"
[11:18] <tepsipakki> =)
[11:19] <Kamion> I know I said that there should be templates, but I think perhaps they could be omitted; if you're preseeding, the preseed infrastructure will register dummy templates on the fly anyway
[11:19] <sivang> hi all
[11:19] <Kamion> it just means that you have to be careful with db_* calls because now db_get might return an error, etc.
[11:20] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok, I'll take another look
[11:20] <Kamion> but we could just do i=0; while db_get "apt-setup/local$i"; do <do something with $RET>; i="$(($i+1))"; done
[11:21] <Kamion> er, 'while db_get "apt-setup/local$i" && [ "$RET" ] ' I guess
[11:21] <tepsipakki> thanks, I'll modify it
[11:22] <tepsipakki> but first the multiverse..
[11:23] <hunger> I think the installer will need fixing for this new /var/run thingy to work properly.
[11:23] <\sh> Kamion: can I ask you for advise? i'm not sure if I'm right in this case
[11:23] <\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-scientific/+bug/5950
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: Unconfirmed
[11:24] <\sh> I would remove the dependency p-netcfd from p-scientific , and add a dep to p-netcfd for p-scientific
[11:24] <\sh> hey mvo 
[11:25] <Kamion> hunger: huh?
[11:25] <\sh> hmm..coffee
[11:25] <mvo> hey \sh 
[11:25] <hunger> Kamion: Install a fresh dapper with /var on a separate partition.
[11:25] <Kamion> \sh: no idea sorry, best ask somebody who actually knows the code ...
[11:26] <hunger> Kamion: Then update and reboot: No more /var/run.
[11:26] <Kamion> hunger: strange, /var should be mounted before base-files is unpacked and base-files contains /var/run
[11:26] <Kamion> I have no intention of special-casing this in the installer; I suspect that one or more packages need to be fixed
[11:27] <hunger> Kamion: Since /var is on a separate partition and that is mounted before base-files is unpacked the root partition does not contain /var/run.
[11:27] <hunger> Kamion: S00mountvirtfs tries to create /var/run there and fails since / is ro at the time it is run.
[11:27] <Kamion> I see; S00mountvirtfs had better do something else then
[11:28] <hunger> Kamion: ... so no /var/run and no tmpfs mounted on it.
[11:28] <Kamion> creating it on /dev and moving it later might work, for example
[11:28] <Kamion> or mounting a tmpfs on /var, although that sounds scary
[11:28] <hunger> Kamion: The does /var/run check is really redundant... mkdir can not work anyway.
[11:28] <Kamion> anyway, file a sysvinit bug if there isn't one already pleas
[11:28] <Kamion> e
[11:29] <Kamion> Scott'll need to rethink this
[11:29] <tepsipakki> kamion: what kind of a disclaimer should multiverse have? Can I just take the one for universe and modify it?
[11:29] <hunger> I just did... malone #29637
[11:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29637: "/var/run is not created" Fix req. for: sysvinit (Ubuntu), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29637
[11:30] <Kamion> tepsipakki: a combination of restricted and universe plus extra scary, I guess
[11:30] <hunger> That malone needs the source packages is *really* annoying by the way.
[11:31] <\sh> hunger: it's going to change as I understood the launchpadders
[11:31] <hunger> I have problems figuring out what malone wants from me there... I can not see how a user is supposed to do it.
[11:33] <Kamion> bradb's already landed a package guesser that lets you use binaries too; it should be making its way into production soon
[11:35] <Kamion> \sh: (for python-{netcdf,scientific}, ask doko ...)
[11:35] <Kamion> (since he's the Debian maintainer)
[11:35] <\sh> Kamion: will do :)
[11:41] <\sh> ah when you speak about the devil :)
[11:42] <\sh> doko: do you want to fix malone #5950 or do you want to give me a little advise what I should do :)
[11:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5950
[11:43] <doko> best thing might be to have cyclic dependency
[11:44] <\sh> doko: so adding python-scientific to p-netcfd and leaving the p-netcfd dep for p-scientific
[11:45] <mvo> doko: isn't debian trying to get rid of them currently?
[11:45] <doko> mvo: netcdf?
[11:45] <mvo> doko: no, cyclig dependencies
[11:46] <theine> Hi, in current Dapper, if I try to bring up a network interface with ifup, is dhclient3 supposed to be called with the -nw flag?
[11:47] <\sh> doko: do you want to fix it first for debian, so we can sync the package?
[11:50] <doko> mvo: upstream does see this package now as an integral part of scientific. Of course you still can use netcdf on your own, the now added Scientifc warapper around the extension module just can be used with the scientific package installed
[11:58] <hunger> May I close bugs in malone or should this be done by a developer?
[12:09] <siretart> hunger: I think thats okay. if in doubt, ask first here, but in obvious cases, sure!
[12:18] <hunger> siretart: I guess reports about bugs in dapper in scripts that are no longer shipped do count as obvious;-)
[12:19] <siretart> hunger: I agree :)
[12:21] <hunger> Hmm... what is the policy about the new /var/run-tmpfs thing? Will init-scripts cleaning up stuff in /var/run stay for compatibility reasons or should there be bugs reported for them?
[12:22] <mdz> doko: it looks like upgrades of python-twisted from breezy to dapper will lose python-twisted-web
[12:22] <mdz> doko: is there any reason why the functionality cannot be preserved across upgrades?
[12:22] <Kamion> hunger: we don't need to diverge from Debian when it doesn't matter, so in general I think those scripts should stay there
[12:23] <Kamion> so long as they aren't a major performance hit or anything
[12:23] <ogra> doko, what about zope3 installability ? 
[12:23] <ogra> it breaks edubuntu currently ...
[12:23] <Kamion> but trying to unlink a load of stuff that doesn't exist from a tmpfs should hardly take much time
[12:23] <hunger> Kamion: That was what I was thinking as well, but then ifupdown-clean was removed yesterday.
[12:24] <siretart> hunger: it was agreed that /var/{run,lock} will be tempfs because of udev, and that initscript will have to be fixed for that
[12:24] <siretart> hunger: I'm currently working on courier
[12:26] <hunger> siretart: Some things need fixing of course (i.e. have directories created), but what about cleanup scripts like sudo or screen-cleanup? They do no harm and cause hardly any slowdown.
[12:26] <Kamion> they do no harm, so leave them
[12:29] <hunger> Kamion: OK.
[12:31] <\sh> pitti: what a surprise, the security notice about imagemagick is noticed as link on heise.de :)
[12:31] <dooglus> I didn't see any updates for the last 18 hours.  I thought you guys were slacking.  Then I realised my update-notifier had crashed.  :)  Currently downloading 49 updates...
[12:33] <doko> mdz: I can add the dependencies again, but that was not the intent of the split. I'm going to look at the twisted rdepends and adjust these
[12:33] <Kamion> tepsipakki: thanks for the patch, I'll look at it once I'm out from under the critical things I have to get done before the distro sprint starts
[12:33] <doko> mdz, Kamion: is libnotify1 still in NEW?
[12:34] <Kamion> doko: no
[12:34] <Kamion> libnotify1 | 0.3.2-0ubuntu2 |        dapper | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc
[12:34] <sivang> Kamion: how can I Know if a a user on the system, is a system user or a regular "human" , scan out all those which have higher GID/UID then 1000 as a harcoded value, or parse adduser.conf for correct behavior when an admin has changed it?
[12:34] <tepsipakki> kamion: np
[12:35] <doko> Vorbereiten zum Ersetzen von libnotify0 0.3.0-0ubuntu2 (durch .../libnotify0_0.3.2-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb) ...
[12:35] <doko> Entpacke Ersatz fr libnotify0 ...
[12:35] <doko> dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von /var/cache/apt/archives/libnotify0_0.3.2-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[12:35] <doko>  versuche /usr/lib/libnotify.so.1.0.0 zu berschreiben, welches auch in Paket libnotify1 ist
[12:35] <doko> Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
[12:35] <doko>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libnotify0_0.3.2-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[12:35] <doko> mvo: ^^^
[12:36] <dholbach> \sh that libnotify1 has problems while unpacking because of conflicts, is known?
[12:36] <dholbach> Kamion yeah
[12:36] <dholbach> Kamion (#29600)
[12:36] <doko> ok
[12:37] <Kamion> sivang: for what purpose?
[12:37] <mdz> doko: if you want to allow for a subset of twisted to be installed without -web, then name it something else (Kinnison suggested python-twisted-core)
[12:37] <mdz> doko: (fyi, this came up due to launchpad-dependencies)
[12:38] <theine> I'm sorry for asking this question here, but where can one specify the flags that are passed to dhclient3 when it's invoked through ifup?
[12:39] <sivang> Kamion: home-user-backup, recall that when it's the "admin" of the system, I want to let him backup all users' homes.
[12:39] <mvo> doko: please remove libnotify0
[12:39] <Kamion> sivang: looking at the standard 1000-29999 range would be a reasonable default
[12:40] <sivang> Kamion: for an individual user, I just , mypid = os.getuid(); pwd_tuple = pwd.getpwuid(mypid)
[12:40] <sivang> Kamion: ok, this value is usually unchanged?
[12:40] <Kamion> I guess you can parse /etc/adduser.conf if you like; its format's documented in adduser.conf(5)
[12:41] <Kamion> I'd also be inclined to exclude users with /bin/false set as their shell
[12:41] <Kamion> (sanity-check)
[12:41] <doko> ogra: zope3 needs dependencies from Debian NEW, I don't have these packages. asking jinty for these.
[12:42] <ogra> ok
[12:42] <Kamion> in fact, you could just exclude users whose shells aren't set to something in /etc/shells
[12:42] <sivang> Kamion: I'll add exclusion for those now :)
[12:42] <ogra> thats why i couldnt find the missing packages :)
[12:42] <sivang> Kamion: ah, right, so that even let me drop the UID/GID range checking altogether...I think
[12:43] <Kamion> sivang: no, it doesn't; there exist system users with /bin/sh as their shell
[12:43] <Kamion> for example, trivially, root; but there are others
[12:43] <sivang> Kamion: daemon as well
[12:43] <Kamion> (well, root has /bin/bash, but anyway)
[12:43] <Kamion> yes, when I said "there are others" that's because I knew there were others ;-)
[12:44] <doko> mdz: ok, I'll rename that to python-twisted-core and make python-twisted a transitional package
[12:44] <sivang> Kamion: ok, sorry for the noise. Thanks for tips.
[12:44] <Kamion> one of these days I'll change more of those to /bin/false, I'm just scared of breaking stuff
[12:45] <sivang> Kamion: :-)
[12:45] <hunger> Kamion: Why do some users have /nonexistent as their homedir?
[12:46] <hunger> Kamion: Won't that get remapped to / on login?
[12:46] <Kamion> hunger: see the base-passwd changelog
[12:46] <Kamion> nobody can't log in so who cares
[12:53] <keherman> Where is pam_console.so -- it seems you guys left it out!?!!
[12:53] <keherman> now i can't have my LDAP clients use things like /dev/dsp :-(
[12:53] <keherman> what is the solution?
[12:56] <tepsipakki> keherman: pam_group?
[12:56] <keherman> tepsipakki, it was intentianlly left out by martin pitt it seems
[12:57] <tepsipakki> keherman: yes, but you can get what you want with pam_group
[12:57] <keherman> tepsipakki, how so?
[12:57] <Kamion> pam_foreground is the preferred option in Dapper, I believe
[12:58] <tepsipakki> keherman: modify /etc/security/group.conf
[12:58] <tepsipakki> kamion: yes, noticed that but haven't looked at it myself yet
[12:59] <Kamion> or, since you can never really effectively revoke access to something once you've granted it with pam_console, you could just change the groups of whatever devices you want to grant access to ...
[12:59] <keherman> tepsipakki, how do i give people physically at the machine access to /dev/dsp (not ssh in users)
[01:01] <tepsipakki> keherman: add "auth optional pam_group.so" in /etc/pam.d/gdm, then in /etc/security/group.conf add a line like "gdm;*;*;Al0000-2400;audio"
[01:01] <tepsipakki> keherman: "audio" is the group that the user is added to on login
[01:01] <tepsipakki> keherman: you can add other groups as well...
[01:03] <keherman> tepsipakki, and for kdm would just change the gdm to kdm?
[01:03] <rob> does anyone mind if I mess around with gnome-app-install a bit?
[01:03] <tepsipakki> the documentation for pam_foreground is pretty much nonexistent atm =)
[01:03] <tepsipakki> keherman: yes
[01:03] <tepsipakki> keherman: and of course you'd edit /etc/pam.d/kdm, not gdm
[01:05] <mdz> mvo: how is the upgrade tool testing going?
[01:06] <mvo> mdz: pretty good, I got lots of feedback so far
[01:06] <keherman> tepsipakki, what is libpam-devperm?
[01:07] <mvo> mdz: there was some problem on kubuntu systems and with missing dapper-backports repo
[01:07] <mvo> but those are fixed
[01:07] <tepsipakki> keherman: no idea
[01:07] <mvo> some harder upgrade problems are left, looking into them currently
[01:07] <tepsipakki> mvo: I had the same issue on ubuntu
[01:08] <mvo> mdz: a pretty big problem is when dpkg fails for some reason during the upgrade, I had that in a test-upgrade. that can leave the system half-upgraded and in a really bad shape
[01:08] <mvo> mdz: I'm currently trying to think about some way to continue in that situation, but it's tricky
[01:08] <doko> ogra: zope3 might take some time, 3.2 just crept in before UVF without the required dependencies
[01:08] <mvo> tepsipakki: did you send me a report :) ?
[01:09] <mvo> tepsipakki: there has been some issues yesterday with uubntu-desktop not being installable
[01:09] <ogra> ouch
[01:09] <ogra> doko, thats evil ...
[01:09] <ogra> i think flight 4 will be without schooltool then :/
[01:11] <Riddell> mvo: kubuntu issue isn't fixed, but will be toot sweet
[01:14] <mvo> Riddell: the dpkg override error is not fixed? but apparently, the upgrade can be calculated now just fine
[01:15] <Riddell> well I never fixed it :)
[01:17] <mvo> Riddell: the upgrade calculation problem was fixed with my upload of kaffeine yesterday (or was it monday?)
[01:18] <Riddell> yes, it's the file clash in koffice that I was thinking of
[01:19] <mvo> Riddell: yeah, no problem. it's not too urgent, I'm still pondering how to make the upgrade "mostly-working" when such clashes happen, so it's actually a good test-case :)
[01:38] <keherman> tepsipakki, pam_group did not work :-(
[01:39] <keherman> tepsipakki, for some reason it still thinks rpcuser is the group!
[01:39] <keherman> it is geeting this, i assume, since local ubuntu audio group id is 29, but ldap group id 29 == rpcuser!
[01:39] <keherman> very weird...
[01:40] <Simira> hm.. no trace of Mithrandir yet?
[01:40] <Kamion> it's a bad idea to have LDAP gids in the 0-99 range
[01:40] <Kamion> that range has fixed group assignments in Ubuntu
[01:41] <Kamion> if you do, then you have to be very careful to avoid collisions
[01:41] <keherman> Kamion, no the gid i am referring to is in local /etc/group
[01:41] <Kamion> audio=29 is a fixed mapping on all Ubuntu systems
[01:41] <keherman> ldap client --> audio:x:29:localuser
[01:41] <keherman> yes
[01:42] <keherman> ldap server --> rpcuser:x:29:
[01:42] <keherman> but that is by RHEL3 default
[01:42] <Kamion> if you override it in LDAP, I'm afraid you probably lose
[01:42] <keherman> ldap server == RHEL
[01:42] <keherman> i never override it
[01:42] <Kamion> arrange for 0-99 not to be published on the server?
[01:43] <keherman> when i do "getent group" none of the ldap groups come up
[01:43] <Kamion> if the client is doing group lookups through LDAP, and the LDAP server is saying that rpcuser is gid 29, then that's overriding values that the system relies upon
[01:43] <Kamion> or is the client not doing group lookups through LDAP?
[01:43] <keherman> Kamion, how can i stop it?
[01:43] <Kamion> no idea, I'm afraid
[01:44] <keherman> "files ldap" ?
[01:44] <keherman> versus "ldap files" ?
[01:44] <Kamion> I don't do LDAP, I just know our gid assignment policy
[01:44] <Kamion> that sounds like it might help
[01:44] <tepsipakki> keherman: we have "files ldap"
[01:45] <tepsipakki> but the server is on MacOSX ;)
[01:45] <tepsipakki> and I know nothing about it
[01:46] <sivang> hrm, duplicate oocurence of 'auto $IFACE' is who's problem? :-)
[01:47] <sivang> (after a dist-upgrade of 10 minutes ago, and reboot)
[01:47] <pitti> sivang: sounds Keybukish
[01:47] <sivang> (prevent network from coming up at boot)
[01:47] <sivang> pitti: I had the feeling. let's see if he's here or else, I will file a bug repot
[01:47] <sivang> ok, I guess that's going to be a bug report :)
[01:48] <pitti> rather do the latter, his net connection sucks
[01:48] <sivang> ah yes, he said something about it yesterday
[01:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: any chance of getting that casper espresso-hooks branch merged and uploaded soon, or should I just upload it myself?
[01:48] <mdz> Diziet: my firefox woes vanish with DEBUG=1 under gdb
[01:49] <pitti> heh, just like the recent esddsp bug
[01:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: are you at home today, or travelling?
[01:49] <carlos> pitti, http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/rosetta-breezy.tar.gz latest update with data from last Monday
[01:49] <pitti> carlos: yay
[01:49] <Simira> mdz : he should have arrived in London now. His plane wasn't even late.
[01:50] <mdz> pitti: hmm, indeed it seems to be a similar bug
[01:50] <mdz> pitti: but on i386
[01:50] <pitti> mdz: the cause of the bug wasn't really platform specific
[01:50] <carlos> pitti, it only contains .po files from main and should be an UTF-8 export
[01:50] <pitti> mdz: it was terribly confused when it worked as another user :)
[01:50] <mdz> Simira: thanks
[01:51] <mdz> pitti: oh, I thought it was amd64-specific
[01:51] <pitti> mdz: it just happened to manifest there, bad moon phase, or unlucky number of bits or so
[01:51] <pitti> mdz: the usual properties of race conditions
[01:51] <mdz> pitti,Diziet: what was the workaround put into 1.5.dfsg-4ubuntu3?
[01:51] <pitti> mdz: does disabling esd help?
[01:52] <mdz> Diziet: the changelog doesn't say what you actually changed
[01:52] <mdz> pitti: FIREFOX_DSP=none helps
[01:52] <pitti> mdz: /etc/firefox/firefoxrc
[01:52] <pitti> right, that was it
[01:52] <Diziet> Oh, hello.
[01:52] <pitti> mdz: even with esound 0.2.36-3ubuntu2?
[01:52] <Simira> mdz : np. You just go easy on him the next week. I want him back in good shape.
[01:52] <mdz> pitti: I have 0.2.36-3ubuntu2 installed
[01:53] <mdz> Simira: I won't break him
[01:53] <Diziet> The workaround was FIREFOX_DSP=none _but only on amd64_.
[01:53] <pitti> then you just discovered another race as it seems *sigh*
[01:53] <mdz> Diziet: I'm quite sure I'm not on an amd64
[01:53] <Diziet> Which is why you don't have the workaround (unless you do it manually).
[01:53] <Diziet> Broadly speaking the problem seems to be that something in ff assumes more threadsafety than esound provides.
[01:54] <mdz> pitti: I'm using gstreamer autosink, why do I get esd?
[01:54] <Diziet> I don't know exactly what pitti did but it seems like the way to fix it will have to be to wrap _all_ the esound calls in locks.
[01:54] <pitti> mdz: ffox only talks OSS, and esddsp is a way to route OSS through esound
[01:54] <Diziet> ff uses esd by default for some reason related to thincl, aiui.
[01:54] <pitti> mdz: ffox knows nothing about alsa or even gstreamer
[01:55] <mdz> pitti: right, but I got esd started in my session
[01:55] <ogra> Diziet, thats done on system level, not in ff 
[01:55] <Diziet> Right, but the esound library is not threadsafe so you have a race.
[01:55] <pitti> mdz: probably because ffox wanted it?
[01:55] <ogra> Diziet, at least it shouldnt ...
[01:55] <mdz> hmm, I don't start firefox in my session
[01:55] <mdz> I'll watch it next time I logout
[01:55] <pitti> mdz: if you kill it and start ffox, does esd run again?
[01:55] <Diziet> ogra: OK.  Sorry, I bow to your greater knowledge of all this.  But iirc you said that making ff never use esd would break it.
[01:55] <pitti> mdz: it's not started with the session any more
[01:55] <Diziet> Err, break it on thincl.
[01:56] <pitti> mdz: it's spawned automatically as soon as some libesd app wants to talk to it
[01:56] <pitti> Diziet: wasn't the problem that ffox doesn't understand alsa and only OSS?
[01:56] <ogra> Diziet, it should use the desktops soundsystem ... we make the desktop automatically use esdsink if an ltsp client is used
[01:56] <sivang> pitti: I wonder what's been modifying it, I see it's listed under ifupdown.
[01:56] <Diziet> So ff could talk to the oss device directly but that wouldn't work with thincl ?
[01:57] <ogra> Diziet, yes, that wouldnt work
[01:57] <Diziet> Right.
[01:57] <pitti> Diziet: first that, and second it would totally block the sound device since oss doesn't support sharing
[01:57] <ogra> but not only on thin clients i think
[01:57] <Diziet> I'm tempted to say something like `why on earth would you want your web browser to make noises' but I suspect I'll get shouted down :-).
[01:57] <ogra> what pitti said
[01:57] <pitti> Diziet: some i386 people want flash :)
[01:57] <Diziet> pitti: Do we know whether ff opens it only when it wants to use it ?
[01:57] <Diziet> only on thin clients> Well, indeed - on remote sessions of any kind.
[01:58] <Diziet> pitti: Fools, I tell you :-).
[01:58] <ogra> Diziet, tell that to the webdesigners :)
[01:58] <pitti> mdz: so, don't be afraid of killing esd :)
[01:59] <Diziet> Anyway.  So, the only available answers are: (a) break ff (or other) sound under some circumstances by setting FIREFOX_DSP (b) make esound as threadsafe as ff wants.
[01:59] <Diziet> pitti: You've looked at esound.  Is it _trying_ to be threadsafe ?
[01:59] <pitti> Diziet: not at all
[01:59] <pitti> Diziet: Mithrandir added a mutex to the init function, but that doesn't even remotely catch all cases
[02:00] <pitti> it's full of global variables and such
[02:00] <Diziet> How many entrypoints are there ?
[02:00] <pitti> no idea
[02:00] <pitti> that one patch seemed to work on amd64 at least
[02:00] <Diziet> Well, yes, but now we have mdz as proof that the bug happens on i386 sometimes too.
[02:00] <pitti> but apparently there are different races for any given number of bits
[02:00] <Diziet> Presumably various other random crashes are due to this too.
[02:01] <pitti> bah, we almost managed to make esound obsolete *sigh*
[02:01] <pitti> Diziet: another idea: why not use alsa-oss by default?
[02:02] <pitti> Diziet: does ffox support that?
[02:02] <pitti> would be worth a try IMHO
[02:02] <pitti> (not that I could test flash on ppc or amd64, though)
[02:02] <Diziet> It seems to have esd and something called arts.
[02:03] <pitti> arts is the KDE counterpart of esd
[02:03] <j^> since 2 days flash keeps crashing firefox on i386 each time
[02:03] <j^> Diziet setting FIREFOX_DSP="aoss"
[02:03] <j^> is possible
[02:03] <pitti> j^: that works? yay
[02:03] <Diziet> j^: Oh, good.  I can't see that in this here runner script but we can hack that.
[02:04] <j^> pitti i remember that it worked
[02:04] <j^> have to check with the current state again..
[02:05] <Diziet> Umm.
[02:05] <Diziet> -anarres:firefox-1.5.dfsg> find -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep aoss
[02:05] <Diziet> -anarres:firefox-1.5.dfsg> 
[02:05] <pitti> Diziet: it would avoid another level of indirection and -- ssshhhhh ---- break ltsp
[02:05] <pitti> ogra: look behind - a three headed monkey!
[02:05] <AlinuxOS> pitti, hello :)
[02:05] <ogra> lol
[02:05] <pitti> hi AlinuxOS 
[02:06] <j^> speaking of flash flashplayer-mozilla should be dumped from the archives, flashplugin-nonfree is the same but a newer version
[02:07] <ogra> pitti, i'm not sure that tweaking ff necessarily means that flash wont output to the same device ...
[02:07] <Diziet> widget/src/gtk2/nsSound.cpp is only 350 lines or so.  Maybe I could make it threadsafe.
[02:07] <ogra> pitti, and flash is the only intresting part here for ltsp ...
[02:07] <j^> what about java?
[02:07] <pitti> ogra: with 'same device' being?
[02:08] <ogra> whatever you choose for FIREFOX_DSP
[02:08] <mdke> Kamion, i updated the wiki licensing spec with what was discussed last night. Haven't touched the draft email yet tho, I'll leave it to you
[02:08] <ogra> afaik esd is hardcoded in flash
[02:08] <pitti> ogra: it's probably meant for things like the commercial flash plugin which only understands oss
[02:09] <pitti> ogra: are you sure? that sounds just weird
[02:09] <pitti> I watched flash even under fvwm when I didn't even know about esd...
[02:09] <ogra> pitti, iirc you have to have a certain version of libesd to make flash happy
[02:09] <ogra> its linked very tight to this lib
[02:10] <ogra> so i doubt the env variable will have any influence ...
[02:10] <pitti> ogra: aah, right, I remember that bug
[02:10] <pitti> sb wanted a symlink libesd.so.0 to so.1 or so
[02:10] <ogra> yup
[02:10] <keherman> tepsipakki, my user is not being added to the group on login!
[02:11] <keherman> tepsipakki, even with pam_group!
[02:11] <ogra> i think the env variable is only used for mime content like wav's in websites
[02:11] <Kamion> mdke: thanks
[02:11] <mdke> t_y_
[02:12] <j^> hm, flashplugin-nonfree is broken too, installing it in ~/.mozilla/plugins firefox crashes with The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.
[02:12] <j^>   (Details: serial 118 error_code 8 request_code 146 minor_code 3)
[02:14] <Diziet> This is really weird.  AFAICT what this wrapper script does is run      esddsp /path/to/firefox/binary    but my testbed has no esddsp program.
[02:15] <Diziet> Do other people have a program `esddsp' on the path ?
[02:16] <pitti> Diziet: I *think* esddsp is just a shell wrapper that LD_PRELOADs libesddsp.so
[02:16] <j^> DapperDrake thats in esound-clients
[02:16] <pitti> yes, indeed
[02:16] <j^> Diziet 
[02:16] <Diziet> Ah, which I didn't have installed.
[02:16] <ogra> Diziet, on ltsp clients :)
[02:16] <pitti> Diziet: so that lib intercepts open('/dev/dsp') and converts the calls to esound interactions
[02:16] <ogra> its not there in the default desktop
[02:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: I just arrived in my hotel room in London
[02:17] <pitti> Diziet: does ffox' wrapper script call the libesddsp.so directly? or really calls esddsp?
[02:17] <Diziet> pitti: (b)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I merged it yesterday, but it didn't merge cleanly, so I'll have to fix that before committing and uploading.
[02:17] <Diziet> And yes, esddsp is a shell script which LD_PRELOADs.
[02:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[02:18] <Diziet> And the thing it redirects you to isn't threadsafe !  How lame.
[02:18] <Diziet> This is just never going to work properly and we should disable it.
[02:18] <Mithrandir> Diziet: or fix libesddsp.so
[02:18] <Mithrandir> which is fairly easy.
[02:19] <ogra> Mithrandir++
[02:19] <Diziet> Is it ?  You've already tried to fix it once.
[02:19] <Mithrandir> I fixed it for the init function.  A similar fix for the other (five or so?) functions should work.
[02:19] <Diziet> Strangely, there's ./widget/src/gtk2/nsSound.cpp too which dlopens libesd.so.0.
[02:20] <Mithrandir> the problem is plugins like flash, etc.
[02:20] <j^> Mithrandir any sound output from firefox is the problem
[02:21] <ogra> j^, other sound output is pretty seldom there ... flash will be the biggest usecase 
[02:21] <Diziet> Presumably the reason mdz's crashes is that it's trying to produce a little sqrunk noise to say `have an error message'.
[02:23] <ogra> thats should just be handed to gnome_sound_play() or something like that
[02:24] <Mithrandir> however, don't we use dmix now?
[02:24] <Mithrandir> like, by default
[02:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: we do
[02:24] <Mez> BenC, ping
[02:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: but that doesn't help for programs that use the OSS emulation
[02:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh, that sucks.  Why not, and can't it be fixed?
[02:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: fabbione tried to fix it, but failed
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: any chance you could test casper for me?  It's slightly hard with just my laptop and no cdrom.
[02:26] <Diziet> So, the upshot is: Mithrandir, you're going to fix esound ?  And in the meantime we tell affected users to set FIREFOX_DSP=none.
[02:27] <Mez> surely if someone includes somrthing into the ubuntu kernel - they should include the tools needed to make it work in buntu too ?
[02:27] <Mez> or am i missing something
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Diziet: uh, I didn't volunteer, no. :-)
[02:27] <ogra_> grrrr....
[02:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sure
[02:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what do I need to test?
[02:30] <Diziet> It's very tempting to say `Flash is not Free so not supported' and disable the sound.  But I think that's really too evil.
[02:30] <BenC> Mez: pong
[02:30] <Diziet> Mithrandir: So I'll take a look at esound.
[02:31] <Diziet> But first, I need foood.
[02:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: a) does it work, like, in general.  b) does networking work?
[02:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if a) good, if b) hooray!  (and if so, I'll release)
[02:32] <Mez> BenC: you've added the bcm43xx driver to the kernel - is there any reason not to package up the fwcutter tool for it so it's useable
[02:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: can I whine at you about some evolution issues?
[02:33] <BenC> Mez: hopefully we will be able to distribute the firmware, I'm working on that
[02:33] <seb128> Mithrandir: sure
[02:34] <Mez> BenC: cool - but for now - do you have a problem with me packaging up the fwcutter for universe/multiverse?
[02:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, give me an hour or so, just working on some partitioning stuff on the relevant machine right now and then I'll need to sync down new images
[02:35] <ogra> Mez, that should rather go to main
[02:35] <Mithrandir> seb128: why does evo have its own concept of timezone instead of using TZ or moving it into central gnome infrastructure (gconf)?  Why does it have a "week begins on" rather than using locale?  And can I have http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/2006-01-25-12-19_misunderstood_i18n fixed?  It should be trivial, and I haven't filed a bug since I was on an airplane when I discovered it.
[02:35] <Mithrandir> seb128: also, why does the "day begins" thing in the preferences have a date and not just a time associated?
[02:35] <Mez> ogra: most likely - but if Ben's working on being able to distribute the firmware ... then maybe not
[02:36] <Mez> brb
[02:37] <j^> using FIREFOX_DSP="aoss" im able to play many flash videos with sound at the same time
[02:37] <doko_> Diziet, seb128: can we remove all references to /usr/lib/mozilla from the libnss*, libnspr* and firefox* packages? I think the largest user of these is gnome. did talk with dholbach yesterday, that the gnome packages already have the infrastructure to use nss-firefox.pc / nspr-firefox.pc pkg-config scripts
[02:38] <seb128> doko_: no objection with me
[02:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: most are bugs already known upstream. For the week start that's a feature though, locale are too broken to rely on them as showed by all the bugs we got with the panel calendar (maybe fixed with belocal now)
[02:39] <Mithrandir> seb128: can't we rather fix the bugs in locales than work around them in random other parts of the system?
[02:40] <Kamion> feature> yay for deciding things are too broken and reimplementing them thus ensuring that we have to fix them twice upon discovering that they're still broken
[02:40] <Kamion> Tom Lord would be proud
[02:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you think they'd want patches for gnome 205137 for instance?
[02:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: previous time I spoke with jbailey: 1- he didn't want to be responsible for locales datas, and nobody else neither 2- locales are not coherent between them and it's not clear on how week-1stday first_weekday etc should be used
[02:41] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 205137: "Configurable date formats in components [Was: Alternative date format for Birthdays] " Product: Evolution, Component: Calendar, Severity: enhancement, Assigned to: evolution-calendar-maintainers@ximian.com, Status: NEW http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205137
[02:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: there's a first_workday in locales too..
[02:41] <jbailey> Creepy, ubugtu will look up foreign bugs?
[02:41] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yeah.
[02:41] <torkel> Mithrandir: I really hope that the date in "day begins" is a temporary bug. In 2.4 it shows only the time
[02:42] <Mithrandir> torkel: it's there in my current dapper, at least.
[02:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: current GTK way is to use (week_1stday + first_weekday - 1) % 7
[02:42] <torkel> Mithrandir: yeah I noticed it too
[02:42] <jbailey> seb128: They didn't like my fix to correctly use the number of days in the week as per the locale?
[02:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: but it doesn't give coherent results because differents locales use week_1stday and first_weekday in different ways or somehting like that
[02:43] <seb128> jbailey: what fix is that?
[02:43] <jbailey> Lemme dig it out of my logs.
[02:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: can't we get the semantics fixed, the bugs nailed and everybody go on, happily, then?
[02:43] <jbailey> I remember that I had sent you what I thought was the right fix there.
[02:43] <jbailey> Mithrandir: It's a bit complicated with locales
[02:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: sure, but don't ask me to fix the semantic or the libc :)
[02:43] <jbailey> (lagging a sec to get my bagel)
[02:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: locales is easier now that we have the data outside libc, though.
[02:44] <seb128> jbailey: and it's what has been picked after your comments and my discussion with upstream IIRC
[02:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: right
[02:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: btw, why the NIH TZ handling?
[02:45] <ogra> seb128, is the g-s-d patch to support more than one login already gone into our package  ? 
[02:45] <seb128> ogra: I don't think so, it didn't go upstream, nobody wants to review it
[02:45] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Locales can set on of two calendar dates to start counting their weekdays on.
[02:45] <seb128> ogra: it's not likely to go for dapper
[02:45] <jbailey> So first day of the week can *either* be Saturday or Sunday.
[02:46] <ogra> seb128, damned, thats a showstopper for edubuntu and ltsp
[02:46] <jbailey> Then there's a locale offset from that to determine the actual first day of the week.
[02:46] <Mithrandir> jbailey: uhm.  crack?
[02:46] <jbailey> Mithrandir: It's part of the ISO standard.
[02:46] <Mithrandir> jbailey: what's the use case for that?
[02:46] <jbailey> Mithrandir: NFC
[02:46] <Kamion> First day of the week vs. first day of the working week, I assume?
[02:46] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Probably something to keep people from storming out of Debian or some such like that. ;P
[02:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: there's a first_workday too.
[02:47] <jbailey> Kamion: Nope, work week is different.
[02:47] <Mithrandir> there's a friggin "week-ndays" and "cal_direction" in there too..
[02:47] <jbailey> Right.
[02:47] <zakame> evening devs :)
[02:47] <jbailey> Because who says a week has 7 days?
[02:47] <Mithrandir> somebody smoked too much crack when that standard was written, I'd say.
[02:47] <Kamion> (are there any locales where it isn't?)
[02:48] <HrdwrBoB> Kamion: that's no reason not to include it.. what if at some point in the future it changes!
[02:48] <jbailey> Kamion: Not currently, but I think the idea is probably to reach out to traditional calendars for some groups.
[02:48] <jbailey> Kamion: As in, it would be nice to not redesign the software when we finally figure out how some group deep in the jungle needs to count days.
[02:48] <Kamion> HrdwrBoB: I know, I was just curious
[02:48] <Mithrandir> HrdwrBoB: it's called "second system effect".
[02:49] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:49] <Mithrandir> jbailey: apart from the fact that no software will actually support it, because it has never been tested.
[02:50] <jbailey> Mithrandir: *shrug*
[02:50] <Mez> BenC, have you enable ipv6 in the kernel aswell?
[02:51] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I suspect a remarkable amount of it would break in subtle ways, but at least the fix for it is known.
[02:51] <BenC> Mez: We've always had ipv6 enabled (atleast it was in breezy)
[02:51] <Mez> o_O
[02:51] <Mez> weird - then it cant be that causing the problems
[02:52] <ogra> its enabled since warty
[02:54] <seb128> Mithrandir: for the %c comment, there is some such discussion for gnome-panel: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102635. Their concern is the 12/24 hours variants you don't have when doing that
[02:54] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 102635: "Make hour format easier to localize" Product: gnome-panel, Component: clock applet, Severity: trivial, Assigned to: gnome-panel-maint@gnome.bugs, Status: REOPENED
[02:55] <jbailey> seb128: Feh, I don't seem to have it in my IRC logs.  Did we chat about it in some bug report somewhere instead?
[02:56] <seb128> jbailey: locale stuff? no, by query
[02:56] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's just the hours, I care a lot more about the date than the hours.
[02:56] <Mithrandir> seb128: currently, I get US-style dates in evo, which is _very_ wrong in .no. :-)
[02:56] <jbailey> Hrm.
[02:56] <jbailey> I wonder if I was on a different machine.
[02:57] <ogra> Mithrandir, so just move to the US... problem solved :)
[02:57] <Mithrandir> ogra: hahaha
[02:57] <zakame> lol
[02:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: because you use an english locale?
[02:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, I don't
[02:57] <seb128> jbailey: sep 29 according to my log
[02:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: I use nb_NO.UTF-8, but evo isn't translated to Norwegian, it seems.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's wrong to use regular gettext to translate something which should be handled by LC_TIME.
[02:59] <seb128> right
[02:59] <seb128> for dates their is no reason to not do it that way
[02:59] <jbailey> seb128: Hmm, I think I may have been working off my laptop then, so I won't have logs.
[02:59] <seb128> as pointed they don't do it for hours because of the 12/24 issue
[02:59] <seb128> jbailey: what where you looking for?
[02:59] <jbailey> seb128: What I had suggested to use instead of % 7
[03:00] <jbailey> seb128: It won't change the current problem.
[03:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: sure, and I can understand that 12/24 is more of a like/dislike thing than dates.  If you don't like the output of date +%c, just use a different locale for LC_TIME. :-)
[03:00] <Mithrandir> hi Scott
[03:00] <jbailey> Mithrandir: nb_NO has first_weekday 2
[03:01] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes, and with day="sndag;mandag;tirsdag;onsdag;torsdag;fredag;lrdag" that's fine.
[03:01] <Keybuk> rah
[03:02] <seb128> hi Keybuk
[03:02] <Mithrandir> jbailey: the first day of the week is Monday in Norway.
[03:02] <jbailey> Mithrandir: And it looks like nb_NO is a 19971130 locale.
[03:02] <Mithrandir> what does that mean?
[03:03] <jbailey> Mithrandir: That the first one there is correctly sndag
[03:03] <mvo> hello Keybuk 
[03:03] <jbailey> Mithrandir: So it looks like the locale is correct then?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes, at least it's correct in the calendar after I whipped locale-gen a little some time ago.
[03:04] <Mithrandir> jbailey: it has first_workday=1 which is obviously wrong, though.
[03:04] <jbailey> Oh, I see.
[03:04] <seb128> locales are a mess atm :/
[03:04] <jbailey> Do you have this filed?
[03:04] <jbailey> I need to do an update from Belocs again anyway, so I can sort that out with Denis/
[03:05] <Mithrandir> jbailey: no, no bug filed.  Does belocs have a BTS or do you want it in malone?
[03:05] <jbailey> Malone, please.
[03:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: the right fix is to fix it, though.  Not encapsulate it. :-)
[03:05] <jbailey> I won't remember it otherwise.
[03:05] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Debian is switching to Belocs as well, so it's good to get these fixed. =)
[03:06] <ogra> Keybuk !!!
[03:06] <ogra> you broke my wlan !
[03:06] <Mithrandir> jbailey: \o/ :-)
[03:06] <Kinnison> hey keybs
[03:07] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[03:08] <Mithrandir> jbailey: 29657 is yours
[03:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: the change mentionned by your blog fixes what dates? the ones displayed in the list of messages?
[03:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: in the "edit event" window.
[03:09] <Keybuk> ogra: I did, how did I do that?  I fixed most people's :p
[03:10] <Keybuk> jbailey: I have "https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs?id=%s" as "ubuntu <bug #>"
[03:10] <jbailey> Keybuk: Thanks!
[03:11] <ogra_> $%&%&%
[03:11] <jbailey> Keybuk: Works lovely, thanks.
[03:11] <Keybuk> ogra: I did, how did I do that?  I fixed most people's :p
[03:11] <Keybuk> or do you get bitten by "/etc/resolv.conf not writable" ? :)
[03:11] <Mithrandir> seb128: http://err.no/tmp/Screenshot.png
[03:12] <ogra> Keybuk, it seems wireless-rate is ignored in my interfaces file now
[03:12] <sivang> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ifupdown/+bug/29654 , sorry that I didn't give pkg version, I Wasn't sure ifupdown was to blame
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29654: "On last upgrade in dapper, 'auto eth1' was duplicated such that network was down on reboot." Fix req. for: ifupdown (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[03:12] <Keybuk> ogra: paste your interface file?
[03:12] <ogra> Keybuk, my broadcom card only works at 1M 
[03:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, thank you, I'm bugging upstream about it
[03:12] <Mithrandir> seb128: excellent, thanks.
[03:12] <Keybuk> sivang: yeah, they get dup'd; but I didn't think that was a problem
[03:12] <seb128> np
[03:12] <Amaranth> ogra: your broadcom works?
[03:13] <Keybuk> ifupdown doesn't care about such dups
[03:13] <sivang> Keybuk: who's shipping that file?
[03:13] <ogra> Keybuk, http://pastebin.com/522274
[03:13] <ogra> its a trivial one ...
[03:13] <sivang> Keybuk: I tried to assign it to you but selecting validAssignee times out :-)
[03:13] <ogra> worked until the lats upgrade
[03:13] <Keybuk> sivang: hmm, you haven't upgraded
[03:13] <Keybuk> uh
[03:13] <Keybuk> ogra: hmm, you haven't upgraded
[03:14] <Keybuk> sivang: ok thanks, I'll look into it
[03:14] <ogra> Keybuk, since when ? 
[03:14] <Keybuk> ogra: yesterday
[03:14] <ogra> Keybuk, i upgraded yesterday night the last time 
[03:14] <ogra> to test g-p-m
[03:14] <Keybuk> ogra: that interfaces file hasn't been converted :-/
[03:14] <Kinnison> Keybuk: click the task, tick "assign to me", hit the submit button
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kinnison: if I click the task, I don't see an editable form
[03:15] <Keybuk> just a table-o-text
[03:15] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Umm, are you logged in?
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yup
[03:15] <ogra> Keybuk, all i have in update-managert is todays bzr build, any action i can take to convert the file ? 
[03:15] <Kinnison> Keybuk: bug nr?
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kinnison: waahhhh, I just went back, and clicked again, and I got an edit box this time
[03:16] <Keybuk> ogra: /usr/share/ifupdown/upgrade-from-hotplug.pl < /etc/network/interfaces
[03:16] <Keybuk> ogra: see if that leaves the mapping thing there
[03:16] <Keybuk> oh
[03:16] <Keybuk> ignore me
[03:16] <Keybuk> sorry
[03:16] <Keybuk> misread your file
[03:16] <Kinnison> Keybuk: were you log logged in when you first loaded the page?
[03:16] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yup
[03:16] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yet another launchpad "Not logged in"/"Already logged in" bug I think
[03:17] <Kinnison> Keybuk: probably one of those, yes, sorry you hit it
[03:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: do you have any bugs on "c-u should delete the password field" for gss, or do you want me to file one?
[03:17] <Keybuk> ogra: you know you don't have an "auto eth2" line, right? :)
[03:17] <ogra> Keybuk, it appears as if the "dont wait for dhcp" also became a "dont wait for iwconfig" thing
[03:18] <Keybuk> ogra: shouldn't be, that was done with an argument to dhclient <g>
[03:18] <ogra> Keybuk, yes
[03:18] <Keybuk> ogra: what does "ifup -n eth2" say (assuming it's down?)
[03:18] <ogra> it cant start the interface on first attemt ... 
[03:18] <jbailey> seb128: I've sent Denis an email to work on getting these bugs sent upstream.  Should be all good soonish, I hope.  I see that first_weekday is broken for most locales by the look of it.
[03:18] <sivang> Keybuk: should I break net again to show you the error msg when having the dup?
[03:18] <Keybuk> sivang: sure, attach it to tbe bug
[03:18] <seb128> jbailey: cool, thanks
[03:18] <sivang> Keybuk: ok, I'll break it again then :)
[03:19] <jbailey> seb128: You said that the locales are a mess.  Is there other places whre you're having specific troubles?
[03:19] <ogra> Keybuk, dhclient3 -nw -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth2.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth2.leases eth2
[03:19] <Keybuk> ogra: did it not run anything else?
[03:19] <ogra> nope
[03:19] <Keybuk> cute, ifupdown bug then
[03:19] <Keybuk> nothing I broke
[03:19] <ogra> only run parts in front and after ... 
[03:19] <ogra> but no scripts there 
[03:19] <Keybuk> uhh
[03:20] <Keybuk> so you lied
[03:20] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ sudo ifup -n eth2
[03:20] <ogra> run-parts  /etc/network/if-pre-up.d
[03:20] <ogra> dhclient3 -nw -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth2.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth2.leases eth2
[03:20] <ogra> run-parts  /etc/network/if-up.d
[03:20] <Keybuk> dude, when reporting problems it helps if you *REALLY* give everything it runs you know
[03:20] <Keybuk> thankyou, that's better :)
[03:20] <ogra> thats the exact paste
[03:20] <Keybuk> right
[03:20] <Keybuk> so what's in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d
[03:20] <sivang> hmm weird
[03:20] <ogra> wireless-tools
[03:20] <sivang> I ifdown'd my iface and i can still use network
[03:20] <ogra> executable ...
[03:20] <seb128> jbailey: no, just got a zillion of "my gnome-panel calendar start on the wrong day bugs" in various locales
[03:20] <Keybuk> ogra: and does that have anything that looks at $IF_WIRELESS_RATE ?
[03:21] <pitti> seb128: mine too :/
[03:21] <ogra> Keybuk, yup
[03:21] <ogra> Keybuk, looks fine even
[03:21] <seb128> pitti: fix your locale, you are the locales master no? :)
[03:21] <Keybuk> ogra: *shrug* then I don't see the bug :)
[03:22] <Keybuk> ogra: stick a "set -x" at the top of that script and try again
[03:22] <pitti> seb128: if it's a locales bug, sure
[03:22] <ogra> Keybuk, the rate got set fine when it waited for dhcp
[03:22] <seb128> pitti: it is a locale bug :)
[03:22] <Keybuk> ogra: <jedi mind trick> that is not the change you are looking for
[03:22] <seb128> pitti: you should probaly have first_weekday=2 or something
[03:23] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, i'm aware :)
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: I do have this
[03:23] <ogra> Keybuk, set -x still gives the same output for  ifup -n eth2
[03:23] <seb128> pitti: what about week-1stday ?
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: maybe the calendar starts counting from 0 or from Monday?
[03:23] <Keybuk> ogra: bah, uh ... "exec 2>/tmp/test.log" before the set -x
[03:23] <Keybuk> then read /tmp/test.log
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: there's no such thing in the locale definition
[03:24] <seb128> $ locale -k -c LC_TIME | grep week
[03:24] <seb128> week-ndays=7
[03:24] <seb128> week-1stday=19971130
[03:24] <seb128> week-1stweek=0
[03:24] <seb128> first_weekday=2
[03:24] <seb128> for my locale
[03:24] <pitti> week    7;19971201;4
[03:24] <pitti> for mine
[03:24] <seb128> (week_1stday + first_weekday - 1) % 7
[03:24] <pitti> probably the same in a compressed format
[03:24] <seb128> is the way it's calculated
[03:25] <seb128> 19971130 == 0
[03:25] <Diziet> doko: No, I don't have an objection, but I'd like to know the reason ...
[03:25] <seb128> 19971201=1
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: 19971201 was indeed a Monday
[03:26] <ogra> Keybuk, it doesnt get created :/
[03:26] <doko> Diziet: to install libnss4 and mozilla-browser at the same time?
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: you have week-1stweek=4 ?!
[03:27] <pitti> seb128: so that's (Monday + 2 - 1) % 7 = Tuesday
[03:27] <seb128> right
[03:27] <pitti> seb128: no idea what this number is for
[03:27] <seb128> you should have week-1stday=19971130
[03:27] <pitti> so 1stday must be a Sunday?
[03:28] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, so that script isn't being run
[03:28] <jbailey> pitti: No, 1stday is set arbitrarily.
[03:28] <ogra> Keybuk, yup, exactly
[03:28] <jbailey> pitti: Beyond that, all items are relative.
[03:28] <pitti> jbailey: and first_weekday is an offset to that which points to monday?
[03:28] <Keybuk> ogra: we've seen this ifupdown bug before, no idea what causes it though
[03:28] <Keybuk> it happens in breezy a lot
[03:28] <ogra> Keybuk, the card doenst expose any wireless capabilitys .. 
[03:28] <jbailey> pitti: one indexed, and to whatever day is the start of your week.
[03:28] <Keybuk> uh, just to confirm, btw ... you are running without the "-n" right? :P
[03:29] <ogra> err, nope 
[03:29] <ogra> wait...
[03:29] <jbailey> pitti: Is this de_DE?
[03:29] <pitti> jbailey: ok, then this is severely screwed; I'll compare it to the old glibc ones
[03:29] <pitti> jbailey: yes
[03:29] <ogra> Keybuk, ah, it gets run 
[03:29] <ogra> and tries to set the right values
[03:30] <ogra> but the card still doesnt pick up the 1M+
[03:30] <Keybuk> then I don't see how this is my bug :)
[03:30] <Diziet> doko: mozilla-browser comes with a libnns ?
[03:30] <Keybuk> driver problem, perhaps?
[03:30] <ogra> it didnt appear before yesterday
[03:30] <Keybuk> out-of-order iwconfigs?  (wireless-tools bug)
[03:31] <Keybuk> did you get a new kernel yesterday too?
[03:31] <Diziet> The reason I left it all in /usr/lib/mozilla was for the benefit of embedders like epiphany.
[03:31] <ogra> yup
[03:31] <\sh> Keybuk: did you see the problems of n-m only with atheros wlan chipsets or with any wlan card?
[03:31] <Keybuk> \sh: just atheros so far ... it's a "bug"/"mis-feature" of the madwifi drivers
[03:31] <jbailey> pitti: Now that we've reunified the locales definitions, do I still need to install the language pack to get that locale?
[03:31] <ogra> err, nope, the new kernel was on monday iirc
[03:31] <Keybuk> ogra: *shrug* well, I don't see how any change I made could cause this
[03:31] <pitti> jbailey: no, sudo locale-gen <locale> does what you want
[03:32] <Keybuk> the right command is getting run at the same point it always has
[03:32] <ogra> Keybuk, i always needed to initialize the iface twice... 
[03:32] <\sh> Keybuk: because I have the wifi signal drops and rescans as well with a ndiswrapper card and atheros (without n-m, just plain network config)
[03:32] <ogra> thats why its not set to auto
[03:32] <jbailey> Keybuk: The atheros interfaces are "ath#" and such, yes?  If yes, I also have one.
[03:32] <jbailey> (acquired last week)
[03:32] <Keybuk> jbailey: aye
[03:33] <doko> Diiziet: no, but with /usr/lib/mozillalibnssckbi.so
[03:33] <Keybuk> \sh: that would fit the hypothesis that the bug is in the HAL ... as the Windows and Linux drivers share the same HAL
[03:33] <Keybuk> madwifi-ng is said to fix it, and the primary change there is a new HAL
[03:34] <\sh> Keybuk: well, I blame my wifi router, this problem is described as hw bug of the linksys wrt54g/gs rev 3 
[03:34] <Diziet> doko: Why shouldn't it use the one from libnss4 ?
[03:34] <Keybuk> \sh: no, your drops are definitely madwifi related :)
[03:34] <bddebian> Morning
[03:34] <Keybuk> \sh: the madwifi driver cannot scan and hold a network at the same time
[03:34] <\sh> Keybuk: I have them with ndiswrapper cards as well :)
[03:34] <Keybuk> if you want to scan, you have to disassociate from the network/essid/channel you were locked on
[03:35] <Keybuk> \sh: I don't know/care much about ndis :)
[03:35] <bddebian> doko: ping?
[03:35] <Diziet> doko, seb128: So is it the case that epiphany et al will cope ?  How do they know where to look ?
[03:35] <\sh> Keybuk: but to be sure, I have to test the different cards with a different wifi router to share your opinion :)
[03:35] <doko> Diziet: please! there are differences, eclipse doesn't work with the firefox plugin
[03:36] <doko> it did until 1.0.x, breaks with 1.5
[03:36] <doko> bddebian: pong
[03:36] <bddebian> doko: Do you know why the malone python-numeric merge bug appears to still be open?
[03:36] <jbailey> pitti: So it looks like the only problem is that someone has incorrectly added first_weekday 2 to the de_DE, right?
[03:36] <seb128> Diziet: apps should get their paths on build from the .pc
[03:36] <jbailey> pitti: The rest of it looks right.
[03:36] <pitti> jbailey: well, whatever that '4' is for
[03:36] <seb128> Diziet: that should be fine (but I've not tried)
[03:36] <jbailey> pitti: The year started on a Thursday. =)
[03:37] <pitti> jbailey: but right, fixing s/2/1/ should be enough
[03:37] <Diziet> doko: OK, OK, I'm just asking.  I'm not fighting here.  I just want to understand all of the angles.
[03:38] <jbailey> pitti: (ISO 8601)
[03:38] <doko> Diziet: it's right, that builds hardcoding the include and libdir will break, but that should not be that many
[03:39] <doko> bddebian: no, I didn't look
[03:39] <jbailey> pitti: http://anubis.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc22/wg20/docs/14652fcd.txt if you're looking for the details.
[03:41] <mvo> Diziet: speaking about ff, any news from the pygtkmozembed crash problem? (
[03:41] <pitti> jbailey: thank you
[03:41] <bddebian> doko: Well you appear to be assigned 3123 also.. ;-)  python-numeric-tutorial doesn't still use python2.3 does it?
[03:41] <mvo> malone #26436
[03:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26436: "gtkmozembed crashs with python" Fix req. for: firefox (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Ian Jackson, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/26436
[03:42] <jbailey> pitti: Do you want to file the bug or shall I?
[03:42] <pitti> jbailey: there already is one AFAIK
[03:42] <jbailey> pitti: 'k
[03:42] <bddebian> Ahh, it feels good to be back bugging people.. ;-)
[03:42] <pitti> jbailey: bug 5387 AFAICS
[03:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5387: "clock-applet: first day of week" Fix req. for: glibc (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Martin Pitt, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5387
[03:43] <bddebian> This is probably a dumb question but why does apt-get dist-upgrade puke but it's fixed with an apt-get -f install?
[03:49] <mvo> Keybuk: a quick question about dpkg. when it is given a long list of --unpack and then --configure and one of the items fails (unpack with file override problems, configure with bad maintainer script) will dpkg stop? or continue processing the list? it seems like unpack continued in my quick test, but configure didn't. but that seems a bit odd :)
[03:51] <bddebian> And I have soo missed talking to myself...
[03:51] <Keybuk> mvo: I think it continues until two or three things have gone wrong
[03:51] <azeem> bddebian: well, it's a question for #ubuntu...
[03:52] <Diziet> mvo: I've still got that on my list, but I haven't done anything about it.  Sorry.
[03:52] <bddebian> azeem: Which question :-)
[03:53] <mvo> Keybuk: thanks, I guess I won't be able to avoid peeking into the dpkg source then
[03:54] <mvo> Diziet: thanks, I'll have a look at it again now
[03:54] <bddebian> azeem: And why is the dist-upgrade a #ubuntu question anyway?  Is that expected behavior?
[03:55] <\sh> oh..I just forgot...
[03:55] <\sh> regarding https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libcgicc/+bug/6420
[03:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6420: "not able to link cgicc anymore" Fix req. for: libcgicc (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Fix Committed
[03:55] <kent> bddebian: this is not a support channel
[03:56] <bddebian> kent: Really?
[03:56] <\sh> for breezy it needs just an rebuild...can we do that as breezy-update?
[03:56] <kent> bddebian: read thetopic.
[03:56] <bddebian> kent: That was sarcasm
[03:57] <azeem> bddebian: "puke" doesn't help anybody, if you don't have a concrete error, there's not much the developers can do about it.  And I guess dist-upgrade is expected to fail from time to time for development distros
[03:59] <Kamion> if you don't get help here, at least please refrain from being sarcastic about it
[03:59] <caugier> hi there, i'm seeking info on how to customize the kernel on the new livecd infrastructure.
[04:00] <caugier> does anybody know ?
[04:01] <bddebian> azeem: libnotify fails trying to overwrite itself on a dist-upgrade but -f install resolves it.  Shouldn't a dist-upgrade handle it properly?
[04:01] <Kamion> caugier: install your customised kernel and the casper package on your development system, update-initramfs -u, dump the kernel and initrd from /boot/ into /casper/filesystem.{vmlinuz,initrd.gz} on the CD, possibly customise the modules in the live filesystem as well (as you would've done with the old live CD)
[04:02] <siretart> \sh: you asked earlier about NM and madwifi: yes, madwifi sucks in this regard. madwifi-ng has its issues, too: http://madwifi.org/ticket/70
[04:02] <caugier> Kamion: oh, as usual then, i thought it was supposed to change
[04:03] <caugier> Kamion: to be simplified, cause generating the udebs is quite complex
[04:03] <Keybuk> siretart: hmm, that just looks like someone doesn't understand madwifi-ng
[04:03] <Keybuk> you have to actually add interfaces to your card after detecting it
[04:03] <Kamion> you don't have to generate the udebs any more; the business with the casper package and update-initramfs replaces that
[04:03] <Keybuk> it's a bit strange
[04:04] <\sh> siretart: nono....what I was saying is, that I can't test the behaviour of n-m and madwifi compatible cards in a sane way, because my router has a known problem with dropping wlan connections every now and then and in a reproduceable timeframe (every 1-2 minutes). this happens with all wifi cards I have tested so far...so I can't ack Keybucks statement, that those signal drops are results of madwifi and n-m...
[04:04] <caugier> Kamion: nice, i'll try that thanks
[04:05] <siretart> Keybuk: madwifi-ng is targeted for dapper, no?
[04:06] <Keybuk> siretart: yes, but it's also potentially not ready for dapper
[04:06] <siretart> \sh: I have madwifi as well, and I know that madwifi does drop connections on scan, which really sucks
[04:06] <Keybuk> we'll know next week
[04:06] <siretart> Keybuk: do you need help with testing?
[04:06] <\sh> siretart: which router?
[04:06] <Treenaks> how about bcm43xx? :)
[04:06] <Keybuk> siretart: first I need to install madwifi-ng :)
[04:07] <siretart> \sh: it happens with all routers.
[04:07] <siretart> Keybuk: oh! I see :)
[04:07] <ogra> Treenaks, worked here until yesterday :P
[04:07] <Keybuk> though testing n-m on any other card would be most welcome
[04:07] <Treenaks> ogra: I have a mac mini, it never worked
[04:15] <Keybuk> siretart: uh, what was that bug# again?
[04:15] <siretart> Keybuk: bugno for what? this one? http://madwifi.org/ticket/70
[04:17] <Keybuk> no, malone bug
[04:18] <mvo> Keybuk: is it possible that dpkg dosn't log errors in it's /var/log/dpkg.log?
[04:18] <siretart> I don't remember a malone bug for madwifi-ng
[04:22] <Keybuk> mvo: it doesn't log errors
[04:23] <Keybuk> siretart: the one you just filed, and couldn't assign to me
[04:23] <Keybuk> or was that sivang ?
[04:23] <mvo> Keybuk: is this inentional? or a missing feature? 
[04:24] <Keybuk> mvo: intentional
[04:25] <mvo> Keybuk: I guess because the calling user/app has to deal with it and dpkg falls back to a good state anyway?
[04:26] <mvo> Keybuk: I'm pondering over the problem that a single broken package can ruin a dist-upgrade in pretty specatular ways, leaving half the packages unconfigured. it's certainly a problem of apt, but it might need a bit of dpkg assistance
[04:27] <Keybuk> dpkg logs the states all of the packages are left in
[04:27] <Keybuk> but yeah, the theory is that dpkg never leaves things in a "broken" state
[04:29] <Kamion> I think mvo is probably using a different definition of "broken"
[04:29] <siretart> Keybuk: err, I filed malone #29634, but I think this is something for either BenC or mjg59 
[04:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29634: "usb dead after hibernate/resume on Thinkpad R40-2772-B3G" Fix req. for: linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29634
[04:29] <Kamion> (?)
[04:30] <siretart> I think you confused me with someone
[04:31] <Keybuk> ok, I'm confused then :)
[04:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: possibly
[04:31] <siretart> :)
[04:31] <Keybuk> there's certainly the difference between "package is in a valid, but unexpected state" and "package works"
[04:31] <Keybuk> I've always maintained that dpkg only cares about the former, and it's up to dselect, APT and friends to care about the latter
[04:32] <mvo> I think we are talking about the same things then, yeah
[04:33] <mvo> the problem is that apt does multiple dpkg invocations and stops if one of them goes wrong
[04:33] <Diziet> This esddsp preload thing is on crack.  Completely insane.
[04:33] <mvo> that can be in the middle of a dist-upgrade
[04:35] <ogra_ibook> oooh, new kernel love :) 
[04:35] <ogra_ibook> looks like i'll have sound again today :)
[04:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: could you glance at malone #29224 for me ... am I on crack?
[04:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29224: "Network Interfaces at Install Time" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Scott James Remnant, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29224
[04:38] <alpopel> hi. i've got a question... where can i find an up-to-date-sources.list for dapper??
[04:39] <tseng> take whatever your sources.list is for dapper
[04:39] <tseng> er for breezy
[04:39] <tseng> and s/breezy/dapper
[04:40] <alpopel> well. or what is the problem with my sources.list??    http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/1547
[04:40] <Keybuk> silly question ... what do we assign kernel bugs to now?
[04:40] <tseng> if you cant make sense of what I just said, you are probably in the wrong channel.
[04:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's true that netcfg only ever configures one interface, but that's kind of non-trivial to change
[04:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: but I'd have expected netcfg to at least offer all available interfaces
[04:41] <Keybuk> Kamion: that's what I thought
[04:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: unless link detection showed that the wired interface wasn't connected
[04:41] <Kamion> in which case surely he'd lose anyway
[04:41] <zul> Kamion: my email says kernel-bugs
[04:42] <Kamion> I agree it'd be nice to make e.g. all hotpluggable interfaces ifuppable
[04:42] <Diziet> I'm sorry, but this is just too horrid.  I'm not going to spend days fixing this hideous and hugely invasive LD_PRELOAD hack.  Sound from Flash can go and hang.
[04:43] <Kamion> or just all interfaces, whatever
[04:43] <Keybuk> Kamion: would that be difficult do you think?
[04:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: not sure
[04:44] <Kamion> I'd have to swap out all the bits of my brain that are thinking about partitioning and swap in the bits that know about networking
[04:44] <Keybuk> fair enough, let's chat next week instead
[04:44] <Diziet> Can I make a bug affect two things ?
[04:44] <Keybuk> Diziet: yes, just repeatedly click "Request fix" things
[04:44] <Diziet> When I submit by email.
[04:45] <Keybuk> Diziet: two " affects blah" should do it, yup
[04:46] <Diziet> OK, well, I'll see what it does.
[04:51] <mdz> ogra: please look at tuxpaint and see what it uses netpbm for, see if the dep can be avoided
[04:52] <ogra> hmm, iirc i removed that dep for breezy ... 
[04:52] <mdz> it's there in dapper
[04:53] <ogra> hmm, was there in breezy as well, seems i remember wrongly
[04:53] <ogra> i'll try to get rid of it ...
[04:58] <\sh> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7418276314.html <- anyone knows about this? UbuntuUSB with license key for $30 ?
[05:00] <Keybuk> \sh: interesting ... though that kind of thing's supported out of the box in dapper
[05:01] <stratus> Keybuk, i think the problem is with the name.
[05:01] <ogra> Keybuk, without changing your bios to boot from usb ? 
[05:01] <\sh> Keybuk: well...I don't mind, but I'm surprised about this statement
[05:01] <\sh> "We are in a co-marketing position, to promote the operating system with the licensing staff of Ubuntu," Darbonne told DesktopLinux.com in an email. "We do have the right to bundle Ubuntu with our closed source software and/or hardware as long as we give a way to get the source code of Ubuntu.
[05:02] <\sh> the question which is not answered, if they are allowed to use the brand Ubuntu :)
[05:02] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:02] <Keybuk> ogra: sure, you can use the livecd or any other bootable to bootstrap it
[05:02] <\sh> or the tmed named 
[05:02] <Keybuk> \sh: *shrug* that's not an ubuntu-devel issue though, that's an ubuntu-silbs issue :p
[05:02] <stratus> FYI, they are using the ubuntu affiliate logo
[05:02] <ogra> Keybuk, without changing my bios to boot from the install device ? 
[05:03] <stratus> http://www.zinside.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=76&zenid=67ed0b969a8b5455af2abfa9f34452b9
[05:03] <Keybuk> ogra: I'd reject that claim if they're making it ... how do you boot from something without changing your BIOS? :p
[05:03] <ogra> " * No BIOS configuration needed"
[05:03] <\sh> ogra: you need to boot from a cd to boot from your usb device (that's how I understand that)
[05:03] <ogra> Keybuk, no idea, but thats what they state 
[05:03] <Keybuk> aye, I understand that they have a boot floppy or CD if you can't change your BIOS
[05:03] <ogra> tsk
[05:04] <\sh> it's totally useless
[05:04] <ogra> yes, it says that under "Required configuration:"
[05:04] <ogra> silly
[05:04] <\sh> how can i boot from a cd, if I only have a usb cdrom, and I can't boot from usb?
[05:04] <jsgotangco> stratus, that's a no-fee status though
[05:05] <jsgotangco> (just signed terms and conditions)
[05:05] <\sh> Keybuk: well, sure it's silbs issue :) or actually canonicals :)
[05:05] <jsgotangco> but i guess they are capable enough :)
[05:09] <Keybuk> eeevil -> sysvinit_2.86.ds1-6ubuntu6_source.changes
[05:11] <ogra> Keybuk, ah, come on ...
[05:12] <rob^^^> \sh: who is the licencing staff ;)
[05:14] <\sh> rob^^^: ???
[05:14] <ogra> Keybuk,  thats like saying 21216498623463 is an evil number 
[05:14] <rob^^^> \sh: in the quote above it said they were talking with Ubuntu's licencing staff ;)
[05:14] <rob> ?
[05:14] <bradb> Malone UI feedback request: http://flickr.com/photos/84096161@N00/91063153/ -- an attempt at a table listing of bugs on packages to which you're subscribed. (The idea would be that this kind of look would also make its way into the existing reports.)
[05:15] <\sh> rob^^^: no they said something else...but it's not for this channel :)
[05:15] <ogra> bradb, wow clool, only one sidebar left 
[05:16] <bradb> ogra: we can dream, right? ;)
[05:16] <ogra> but thats way more usable :)
[05:16] <rob> bah
[05:16] <tseng> yeah there is a lot less confusing clutter
[05:16] <bradb> I will include Ubuntu devs comments in a mail to launchpad@.
[05:17] <bradb> Because my opinions on these things do zero to change the status quo. It's all about you guys.
[05:17] <\sh> bradb: I love you guys when you can implement it very fast :)
[05:17] <ogra> \sh, first it must get approved :P
[05:18] <tseng> bradb: one question is, when I search, what am i searching?
[05:18] <bradb> ogra: I *think* it'll be much easier to get approved with hard evidence of the disapproval of the three-column layout (got plenty of that yesterday) and hard evidence supporting a two-column layout.
[05:18] <tseng> all bugs, ubuntu bugs, bugs on this package
[05:18] <ogra> bradb, thats 100% UI improvement and will solve me from 2xscreenwitdht firefox windows :)
[05:18] <tseng> i am guessing the last
[05:18] <\sh> bradb: two side menus are evil...right side menus is good for right handed people...and left side menus is good for left handed people :) 
[05:18] <ogra> s/solve/save
[05:18] <tseng> which would make the label "search within results"
[05:18] <\sh> s/is/are/
[05:19] <nomed> hi all
[05:20] <nomed> using the kernel 2.6.15.12-686 i had this error:
[05:20] <nomed> mount: special device none does not exist
[05:20] <nomed> that's gone with 2.6.15-13-686
[05:20] <tseng> then there is no problem.
[05:20] <nomed> i've seen in the mail list that one other person has that problem using
[05:21] <bradb> tseng: Hm, interesting. I thought the label above the box would have been enough to say what's being searched. I'll ponder that.
[05:21] <nomed> 2.6.15-13-386
[05:21] <tseng> bradb: it might be
[05:21] <nomed> do you know what it can be ?
[05:21] <nomed> i normally use this cmd:
[05:21] <nomed> mount -t unionfs -o dirs=/tmp/mytry=ro none /tmp/UNIONFS
[05:22] <sbalneav> Morning all
[05:22] <bddebian> Hello sbalneav
[05:22] <ogra> morning scottie
[05:23] <sbalneav> Hello ogra, bddebian!
[05:23] <tseng> bradb: im really just having nightmares about the search on launchpad.net and /malone
[05:24] <tseng> bradb: and applying them to your mockup (Which is nice)
[05:24] <bradb> tseng: One thing at a time. :)
[05:24] <tseng> yeah
[05:27] <\sh> going home...laters
[05:30] <ejofee> i think we should add this along with mc: http://mc.linuxinside.com/cgi-bin/dir.cgi#RELEASES
[05:33] <jordi> pitti: pong_
[05:33] <pitti> hey jordi, how are you?
[05:33] <pitti> jordi: nevermind, I couldn't commit to Debian's pkg-alsa, but jdthood sorted that out
[05:33] <jordi> I'm fighting libxklavier
[05:34] <jordi> it semes it broke my desktop :)
[05:34] <jordi> pitti: cool, welcome to the team :)
[05:36] <jbailey> Oh, hmm.  We don't include linuxprinting.org-ppds in desktop?
[05:36] <jbailey> I thought we did.
[05:36] <pitti> 11 MB? holy shit
[05:36] <pitti> jbailey: probably because postscript printers aren't that common?
[05:36] <jbailey> Yeah, maybe.
[05:37] <jbailey> I just thought that before the gnome printing thing had detected my Lexmark automatically.
[05:37] <jbailey> pitti: 11,1Mo rceptionns en 18s (590ko/s)
[05:37] <jbailey> =)
[05:38] <pitti> 668B/s 4m54s - for an apt-get dist-upgrade; high-speed networking at it's finest *sigh*
[05:38] <jbailey> Ouch
[05:38] <pitti> erm, not even a dist-upgrade, just an install bzrtools *grumpf*
[05:38] <jbailey> No, there must be something else.  Here.  I'm fairly certain that it saw and recognised the printer before, and even with these PPDs installed, the E210 isn't listed.
[05:38] <jbailey> But this is the printer we all used at UBZ
[05:38] <pitti> somehow ssh to rookery is incredibly slow right now
[05:40] <jbailey> And it is in /usr/share/ppd/foomatic-rip/Lexmark
[05:40] <jbailey> I wonder if it's just broken on PPC again.
[05:52] <bradb> I've done some slight tweaks to the package bugs UI prototype: http://flickr.com/photos/84096161@N00/91073757/
[05:53] <tseng> bradb: cool
[05:54] <ogra> WOW
[05:54] <bradb> Unless anyone changes their opinion to suckage because of those tweaks, I'm going to send the data I've collected to launchpad@ re: two-column vs. three-column layouts.
[05:54] <tseng> bradb: im a big fan
[05:54] <ogra> that looks very usable 
[05:54] <bradb> cool
[05:54] <tseng> oh
[05:55] <tseng> the breadcrumb
[05:55] <pitti> bradb: yay, no wasted space any more :)
[05:55] <tseng> the page is showing bugs on just ubuntu firefox
[05:55] <tseng> the breadcrumb stops at sample person
[05:56] <tseng> there is presumably a navigation step between my person page and this page
[05:56] <bradb> tseng: That's a tricky navigation issue, that I think is outside the scope of the reporting issue I'm trying to address. But I do agree that with your concern about that.
[05:56] <pitti> bradb: so that rather useless personal info box is now confined to the actual people page, not to each and every page around?
[05:56] <tseng> bradb: ok, i definately see other ways to get to what i want
[05:56] <tseng> bradb: so its not a major problem
[05:57] <pitti> bradb: btw, thanks for the comment+status change on one page
[05:57] <bradb> tseng: The idea is that you'd click on a "Package Bug Reports" menu option from your personal page and land on a page that gives you an overview of your package bugs, then you can drill down to each one. (I haven't prototyped the overview page yet, but it'd be pretty simple.)
[05:57] <tseng> bradb: i have pretty big problems with useless/confusing content, and navigation.. you pretty much killed off the first one in this set so
[05:57] <bradb> pitti: re: useful info box, well, I'm trying to convince people that it should be gotten rid of, yeah. :) Hopefully sending the data I've collected to some decision makers will help push things in a positive direction.
[05:58] <bradb> tseng: cool
[05:58] <tseng> bradb: cookie from me
[05:58] <bradb> heh
[05:58] <pitti> bradb: did you get mdz's collection of 'worst griefs ever'?
[05:58] <bradb> pitti: I don't recall seeing that, but we're /way/ past knowing what you guys dislike about Malone, tbh. :)
[05:59] <pitti> heh :)
[05:59] <bradb> We have huge amounts of documentation on this, e.g. wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DistroTeamOneOnOne
[05:59] <pitti> to be fair, I like the email interface a lot
[05:59] <bradb> pitti: Did you see my update to the email doc?
[05:59] <pitti> it was greatly missing in bz
[06:00] <bradb> I announced the update on launchpad-users@. I made it, like, readble.
[06:00] <pitti> bradb: no, I didn't; last time I wanted to look at it wiki.lp was offline, so I used the google cache
[06:00] <bradb> er, readable
[06:00] <pitti> bradb: rock
[06:00] <bradb> http://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc should be an easier read
[06:00] <tseng> im not sure how much you can say about it, but it seems like a pretty big problem if a certain person impeeds forward progress on making the product not suck
[06:01] <tseng> when the rest of the world agrees that certain artificial requirements are crap
[06:01] <pitti> bradb: just read it, that's much better; thank you
[06:02] <bradb> cool
[06:04] <Menoz> hi all
[06:13] <Menoz> hi, I would like to set up an ubuntu repository
[06:13] <Menoz> can someone tell me where can I find some information?
[06:15] <LaserJock> Menoz: I would go to www.debian.org and under documentation you will find an APT-HOWTO. I believe it has info
[06:15] <dholbach> I personally think it's better to get stuff into Ubuntu and work hard on doing so.
[06:15] <dholbach> Letting users fiddle with apt/sources.list is cumbersome and it gets more attention once it's in Ubuntu.
[06:16] <pitti> jbailey: ok for you if I steal bug 29657 from you?
[06:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29657: "first_workday wrong for nb_NO" Fix req. for: langpack-locales (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Jeff Bailey, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29657
[06:17] <LaserJock> yeah, I agree with dholbach, but sometimes I have needed a local apt-repo for testing etc. google can be helpful there
[06:18] <pitti> Menoz: man apt-ftparchive
[06:22] <Menoz> ok, thanks to all! :)
[06:31] <lamont__>   gpaint: Depends: libcairo1 (>= 0.5.2) but it is not installable
[06:31] <lamont__> hrm...  I think hppa's edubuntu build may have a package or two out of date...
[06:31] <lamont__> doko: ^^^ thoughts?
[06:32] <ogra> lamont__, i'm just preparing a new metapackage, n the notification daemon changed its name back and forth ...
[06:32] <lamont__> ogra: ah, ok.
[06:32] <lamont__> the libcairo1 thing is more interesting...
[06:33] <ogra> dunno about that, doesnt show up here 
[06:33] <bddebian> The cairo stuff frightens me
[06:34] <lamont__> ogra: yeah, it's some build-dep slippage that doko gifted hppa
[06:34] <ogra> ah
[06:34] <ogra> evil doko :)
[06:34] <lamont__> there _is_ a reason why it's good to actually specify versioned build-deps when you need them...
[06:34] <lamont__> then again, it might not have been doko - must be nice.
[06:42] <doko> lamont__: just look at the first letter of the package, don't bother me with g* packages, ask seb128 ;-)
[06:42] <lamont__> hehe
[06:42] <seb128> roh
[06:42] <lamont__> you're both evil, you know.
[06:42] <ogra> lol
[06:43] <seb128> how comes that libcairo1 is so outdated?
[06:43] <lamont__> my real question is, 'what no-change upload do I need to do to make gpaint installable on hppa'
[06:43] <doko> seb128: it's hppa ;)
[06:43] <lamont__> because gpaint was uploaded for a transition before libcairo was built
[06:43] <lamont__> so it happily used what was there
[06:43] <seb128> and we have no binary-NMU?
[06:43] <lamont__> since there wasn't a versioned build-dep
[06:43] <lamont__> no binNMU in the archive
[06:43] <seb128> hum
[06:43] <lamont__> (well, except for that one back in warty, but I've repented)
[06:44] <lamont__> I suppose I could just try rebuilding gpaint and see if (1) it builds and (2) installs
[06:44] <seb128> just to a build1 upload
[06:44] <ogra> yup
[06:45] <ogra> since it works fine on all other arches
[06:45] <lamont__> I'll test first, thanks,
[06:45] <seb128> np
[06:50] <Diziet> I sent a bug report to Malone by email a little while ago but haven't had an ack.  What does that mean ?
[06:51] <seb128> that you should ask to #launchpad guys if that's normal :)
[07:08] <bradb> I sent an email to launchpad@ (password-protected archives, unforunately), SteveA, sabdfl, and kiko containing the feedback you guys provided on the two- and three-column listings.
[07:12] <pitti> did anyone else's network card does not work any more after dist-upgrading today?
[07:13] <pitti> pretty frustrating, I get a 'eth0: link is not ready', but it is definitively a software problem (breezy works)
[07:14] <ogra> pitti, hey i have the same here
[07:15] <ogra> ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth2: link is not ready
[07:16] <pitti> exactly
[07:16] <pitti> but now I can't even dist-upgrade again in case it has been fixed
[07:16] <pitti> ogra: but I don't remember a kernel upgrade today
[07:16] <ogra> it works for me if i run dhclient manually ...
[07:16] <pitti> I already spent an hour rebooting my home server, checking cables, checking from my friend's laptop and so on:/
[07:17] <ogra> (after some iwconfig stuff, its my wlan iface)
[07:17] <pitti> ogra: no, not for me; even if I manually configure an IP and route
[07:17] <torkel> pitti: do you have /var/run/network ?
[07:18] <pitti> torkel: yes, I have
[07:18] <Riddell> ops wanted in #ubuntu for usuarioribas
[07:18] <pitti> torkel: if contains ifstate which looks sane; but even then, this shuoldn't affect the card at all
[07:18] <pitti> torkel: maybe ifupdown pukes, but manual ifconfig/route/ping should still work
[07:19] <torkel> pitti: true
[07:21] <Keybuk> hmm
[07:21] <Keybuk> I get that too
[07:21] <Keybuk> but then it works
[07:21] <ogra> pitti, mii-tool ? 
[07:21] <segfault> why x11-common depends on laptop-detect?
[07:21] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, maybe it's not relevant then
[07:21] <Keybuk> what driver is your eth0 and ogra's eth2?
[07:21] <segfault> that's weird, i don't want laptop-detect installed on my server.
[07:21] <Keybuk> segfault: yes you do
[07:21] <ogra> Keybuk, bcm43xx 
[07:21] <Keybuk> segfault: because you don't want things being started that are for laptops
[07:22] <segfault> keybug: what would be that things?
[07:22] <segfault> err, keybuk
[07:22] <segfault> sorry
[07:22] <ogra> Keybuk, (i'd normally blame the driver for everything if you hadn't uplaoded the network stuff recently :P )
[07:22] <pitti> Keybuk: skge
[07:22] <Keybuk> ogra: the stuff I uploaded didn't change much
[07:22] <Keybuk> so I don't see how it's a problem
[07:22] <Fade> is there documentation on changing the module load order for a ubuntu system with two soundboards?
[07:22] <Keybuk> Fade: yes, don't.
[07:23] <Keybuk> Fade: there's no such thing as "module load order"
[07:23] <Fade> I'm trying to understand the alsa setup in ubuntu.
[07:23] <ogra> Keybuk, i got it working now, but apparently it only works if i give the MAC of the ap 
[07:23] <ogra> wasnt needed before
[07:23] <Keybuk> ogra: does removing the "auto" line, and doing ifup manually later work?
[07:23] <Fade> It works on debian and gentoo..
[07:23] <pitti> ogra: ok, given that I go through the hassle of downloading mii-tool here and carry the deb over to my desktop, what do I do with it?
[07:23] <Keybuk> Fade: no it doesn't
[07:24] <lamont__> Riddell: tossed
[07:24] <pitti> Keybuk: nb that even a manual ifconfig/route add default doesn't work
[07:24] <Keybuk> Fade: is it running latest unstable, with 2.6.15+ and udev?
[07:24] <ogra> Keybuk, i didnt try yet ... i wrote a script to make it work ... lemme try with the MAC in /etc.../interfaces
[07:24] <Keybuk> pitti: then it's deeeefinitely not something I've done :p
[07:24] <Keybuk> all I did was write a new init script, a udev rule and remove a warning from ifup :p
[07:24] <Fade> 2.6.9/hotplug
[07:24] <Fade> devfs
[07:24] <Keybuk> Fade: then it predates the removal of module load orders from the kernel
[07:24] <Fade> but the modules are being loaded manually.
[07:25] <lamont__> seb128: gpaint -build1 uploaded, tnx
[07:25] <seb128> np
[07:25] <segfault> laptop-detect seems to be no overhead at all
[07:25] <pitti> Keybuk: ok :) but since we hadn't had a kernel update I blamed the new userspace stuff :)
[07:25] <Fade> Keybuk: is there any documentation on the issue?
[07:25] <Keybuk> Fade: plenty, on wiki.ubuntu.com, lwn, lkml, etc.
[07:25] <pitti> Keybuk: and it doesn't work with the previous kernel either, that's why I still blame userspace
[07:26] <Keybuk> pitti: I don't know of anything in userspace we've changed at that level
[07:26] <pitti> Keybuk: maybe it loads the wrong module for the card, or so
[07:26] <Keybuk> if ifconfig doesn't work, that pretty much states kernel problem, doesn't it?
[07:26] <Keybuk> could be, but that's a kernel problem too
[07:26] <pitti> Keybuk: but if the kernel didn't change?
[07:26] <Keybuk> pitti: I've seen a few kernel updates the last two days
[07:27] <segfault> keybuk: i have a dapper image running on vmware, which was installed using LVM. However, after the latest kernel upgrade, i'm unable to boot it. For some unknown reason, it cannot find the SCSI drivers, but in the busybox shell, if i unload the modules, and load them again, it find the devices, and thus, the LVM stuff.
[07:27] <pitti> Keybuk: aaaaaaah *headdesk&
[07:27] <pitti> Keybuk: the recent upgrade swapped eth0 and eth1
[07:27] <Fade> keybuk -- thanks for the pointer. I appreciate it.
[07:27] <Keybuk> segfault: no idea, I've not been able to debug that yet
[07:27] <pitti> Keybuk: I just compared breezy&dapper kernel logs 
[07:27] <Keybuk> segfault: any and all help would be appreciated
[07:28] <Keybuk> pitti: :)  yeah, there's no ifrename stuff at the moment
[07:28] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll be bringing a vmware installation to the sprint if you want to look at it there
[07:28] <Keybuk> should have mentioned that somewhere <g>
[07:28] <Keybuk> Kamion: excellent
[07:28] <segfault> keybuk: i played around with "local-top/lvm", inserting some rmmods and modprobes before modprobing dm-mod. seems to work, but it's a ugly hack though.
[07:31] <LeeJunFan> is it just me or is at least us.archive.ubuntu.com got non matching package list and actual files? ie. pool/universe/s/slib/slib_3a2-3_all.deb  File not found
[07:31] <Keybuk> pitti: udev has at least some of the functionality of ifrename built into it
[07:31] <Keybuk> so I plan to use and improve that, rather than using ifrename
[07:31] <Keybuk> that'd solve the swapping interfaces bugs quite nicely
[07:31] <torkel> yay :-)
[07:31] <lamont__> pitti: /etc/iftab is your friend
[07:31] <lamont__> I thought we auto-created that
[07:31] <Keybuk> lamont__: nothing reads /etc/iftab right now :)
[07:31] <lamont__> Keybuk: ah, ok
[07:31] <lamont__> yeah, we should fix that for dapper. :)
[07:32] <Keybuk> yes :)
[07:32] <Nafallo> hehe
[07:32] <Keybuk> but we only just got networking working again <g>
[07:32] <lamont__> LOL
[07:32] <Nafallo> network-manager must be <3 then. I never had any network-b0rkage :-)
[07:32] <pitti> Keybuk: thanks; for now I'm just happy to have my desktop working again :)
[07:33] <Nafallo> Keybuk: btw, http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/bzr/ <-- current network-manager and dhcdbd in bzr :-)
[07:33] <Keybuk> Nafallo: I'll look next week
[07:33] <pitti> lamont__: thanks for the hint
[07:33] <Keybuk> can you mail that url to me
[07:33] <Nafallo> Keybuk: sure thing :-).
[07:33] <pitti> lamont__: indeed, it has the 'correct' (i. e. my previous) ordering
[07:33] <lamont__> pitti: yeah, what Keybuk said
[07:34] <Keybuk> in theeeory, we could do something like:
[07:34] <ogra> Keybuk, its still needs the second attempt and doesnt respect the bitrate at all, but it works again
[07:34] <ogra> i noted that getting the address takes a lot longer and since the ifup command is nonblocking, its hard to notice when the interface is actually up
[07:35] <Keybuk> SUBSYSTEM=="net", IMPORT{program}="iftab_helper --export $sysfs{address}", NAME="$env{NAME}"
[07:35] <Keybuk> which uses the udev built-in rename interfaces stuff
[07:35] <Keybuk> though we'd need some magic to allow swapping to work, not sure about that yet
[07:36] <ogra> pitti, did you wait long enough for the interface to obtain an IP ? for me it comes up after some time ...
[07:36] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, I need to find a solution to that :-/
[07:36] <pitti> ogra: already solved; eth0 and eth1 were swapped since /etc/iftab is not evaluated ATM
[07:37] <ogra> ah, yes, i had that when my eth1 became eth2 last week :)
[07:37] <Keybuk> hmm?  it only changed yesterday
[07:38] <ogra> not for the broadcom driver it seems
[07:38] <ogra> i had it with the 2.6.15-12 upgrade
[07:38] <Keybuk> kooky
[07:43] <bradb> DUDES!
[07:43] <bradb> "I'm happy with the two-column layout there." -- sabdfl
[07:44] <bradb> i.e. on the package bug reports listing
[07:44] <HiddenWolf> bradb: are you broadmessaging -devel?
[07:44] <Keybuk> wow, what was the cocktail you slipped him? :)
[07:44] <ogra> YAAAY \O/
[07:45] <ogra> bradb, oh, that was not general ? 
[07:45] <bradb> ogra: Just for the specific proposal I made re: the feedback you guys gave earlier.
[07:45] <pitti> bradb: rock
[07:45] <bradb> One step at a time. This is encouraging news that, given sufficient effort and evidence, there can be positive UI changes made. :)
[07:45] <ogra> hmm, i think its important on the single bug view as well ...
[07:46] <ogra> yeah 
[07:46] <ogra> but having to walk in such small steps is needing a lot of patience :)
[07:47] <bradb> yeah
[07:56] <dholbach> mdke: ping
[07:56] <pvanhoof> difficult-to-spot bug: an upgrade caused "auto eth0" to be added twice in the interfaces line
[07:57] <pvanhoof> automagically
[07:57] <pvanhoof> Had this problem on two dapper computers. The first one I thought it was my mistake
[07:58] <Keybuk> pvanhoof: bug 29654
[07:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29654: "auto eth1 duplicated in /etc/network/interfaces by upgrade" Fix req. for: ifupdown (Ubuntu), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Scott James Remnant, Status: In Progress http://launchpad.net/bugs/29654
[07:59] <pvanhoof> ok
[08:11] <siretart> hm. too late..
[08:28] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[08:34] <jbailey> pitti: You're welcome to.  I've emailed Denis and asked him for the Right Way to sync these changes back to him.
[08:35] <pitti> jbailey: I'd really like to apply these changes on top of the current belocs data (maybe it's even fixed), but I need that glibc update for that :)
[08:35] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, makes sense.
[08:36] <jbailey> I wonder if the patches that Denis has done for Debian glibc can just be taken directly.
[08:36] <jbailey> He hasn't answered the email yet.
[08:36] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[08:37] <pitti> Riddell: zyga and I have LangpacksDesktopfiles implemented for Gnome to ~ 90%
[08:37] <pitti> Riddell: do you have a minute to talk about what's necessary to do that for KDE, too?
[08:37] <Riddell> pitti: sure
[08:37] <zyga> pitti: and xubuntu
[08:37] <pitti> Riddell: the cdbs changes should apply to KDE as well, but I'm not sure whether it catches the domain correctly
[08:38] <pitti> Riddell: so let's start with that adding of the translation domain to .desktop files
[08:38] <Riddell> pitti: what does it do?
[08:38] <pitti> Riddell: oh, heh, it's not, sorry - that's done in gnome.mk
[08:39] <pitti> Riddell: it basically does some black magic to find out the gettext domain and appends a field X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain to .desktop/.server files
[08:39] <pitti> Riddell: and adds an attribute ubuntu-getttext-domain to .server files
[08:39] <pitti> Riddell: I assume KDE has .desktop and .directory, too? (maybe not .server)
[08:40] <Amaranth> it does
[08:40] <Amaranth> KDE had it first :P
[08:40] <Riddell> yes, what's the .server again?
[08:40] <pitti> true :)
[08:40] <Riddell> we don't have .server files
[08:40] <pitti> Riddell: it's used for applets
[08:40] <Riddell> ok
[08:41] <pitti> Riddell: do all/the majority of KDE programs use cdbs' kde.mk?
[08:41] <Riddell> pitti: all of KDE proper does yes
[08:41] <Riddell> except I think kdeedu
[08:41] <pitti> Riddell: then it would make sense to modify kde.mk in a similar way
[08:41] <Riddell> certainly would
[08:41] <pitti> Riddell: I can care for that if you want
[08:41] <Riddell> how does it work out the translation domain?
[08:42] <pitti>             DOMAIN=$$(grep --max-count 1 '^GETTEXT_PACKAGE[[:space:] ] *=' $(DEB_BUILDDIR)/po/Makefile | sed 's/^.*=[[:space:] ] \([^[:space:] ] \)/\1/'); \
[08:42] <pitti> Riddell: maybe there is an easier way for KDE :)
[08:43] <Riddell> kde has lots of programs and therefor translation domains in one package so I don't know if that would work
[08:43] <pitti> ah, I remember
[08:43] <pitti> Riddell: how are .desktop files translated in a KDE package then?
[08:44] <pitti> Riddell: in gnome, a pakcage ships a .desktop.in, the po files, and intltool-merge puts the translations from the po files into the .desktop file
[08:44] <pitti> but that won't work with the separated translations in KDE I assume
[08:45] <Riddell> a script runs over SVN and puts all the .desktop strings into kdebase_desktop.po  kdemultimedia_desktop.po etc
[08:45] <jpatrick> scripty
[08:45] <Riddell> then another scripts comes along later and takes people's translations of them and puts them into the .desktop files
[08:47] <pitti> Riddell: but that's not done on every package build I assume
[08:47] <Riddell> no, it's done nightly on a checkout of the SVN archive
[08:47] <pitti> Riddell: hm, maybe you are better suited to do the cdbs modifications then
[08:47] <Riddell> yes, I'll have a think about it
[08:48] <pitti> Riddell: the important part is to get the gettext domain into the desktop file, regardless how
[08:48] <pitti> so that a KDE library can be modified to use gettext() on the strings
[08:48] <Riddell> that would be KConfig having to call KLocale
[08:49] <Riddell> and making sure it doesn't do any recusion while it's doing it
[08:51] <Riddell> hmm, I'd also need to add the .desktop strings to the .pot files
[08:53] <pitti> Riddell: do you think that this is a realistic target for dapper?
[08:54] <pitti> Riddell: if not, then maybe we should split the KDE part of the spec into a separate spec
[09:02] <Riddell> pitti: I'd like to get it working and it may well be possible, but it may well turn out to be quite difficult too
[09:11] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ? :)
[09:11] <pitti> Hi AlinuxOS 
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> :)
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> I'm very tired..
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> I?ve done y best..
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> I've prepared ka.tar.gz :)
[09:12] <pitti> AlinuxOS: for breezy or dapper?
[09:12] <pitti> AlinuxOS: great :)
[09:13] <AlinuxOS> to put into rosetta-breezy.tar.gz
[09:13] <pitti> AlinuxOS: nice, I can merge it once I verified that rosetta-breezy.tar.gz is sane
[09:23] <trappist> pitti: watching out for this mdz fella you told me to ask about the alsaconf issue.  ubotu hasn't 'seen' him and I haven't either.  do I have the nick right?
[09:24] <tseng> trappist: yes.
[09:24] <trappist> tseng: thanks
[09:24] <Kamion> he's pretty busy with soyuz deployment work all this week, fyi
[09:25] <Nafallo> Kamion: oh. still monday-ish?
[09:25] <sivang> rehi all
[09:26] <Nafallo> morning sivang :-(
[09:26] <Nafallo> s:(:):
[09:26] <Kamion> Nafallo: no idea about status, sorry
[09:26] <sivang> hey Nafallo :)
[09:27] <bddebian> Heya crimsun
[09:27] <bddebian> wb sivang
[09:27] <Nafallo> then let's hope for monday :-)
[09:28] <Nafallo> bddebian: yay! have you been in prison or something? :-)
[09:28] <bddebian> Nafallo: All the -devel people wish, I'm sure. :-)
[09:28] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[09:28] <Nafallo> bddebian: nope, we just missed you ;-)
[09:28] <sivang> bddebian: hehe
[09:28] <bddebian> Oh and yeah, RL Work ~= Prison :-)
[09:28] <sivang> bddebian: indeed :)
[09:28] <Nafallo> ah, oki.
[09:45] <theine> Didn't vim used to be an alternative for /etc/alternatives/editor ?
[09:47] <pitti> theine: bug 6586
[09:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6586: "please provide alternative for /usr/bin/editor" Fix req. for: vim (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/6586
[09:47] <theine> pitti, thanks
[10:11] <matara> i got problem with kickstart on dapper
[10:12] <xhaker> hi all
[10:12] <matara> whrandom module depreciated
[10:12] <xhaker> a long delay between source package upload and binary package availability on the repositories is always synonym of build failure?
[10:13] <xhaker> matara: sure you didn't meant deprecated?
[10:13] <matara> sorry yep that's what i meant
[10:13] <Nafallo> xhaker: not always, but often.
[10:13] <Nafallo> xhaker: could be binary new and such things aswell...
[10:15] <xhaker> Nafallo: there was a page we could see the build logs not that lamont page. do you know if that feature is in launchpad now?
[10:15] <xhaker> i want to test the new kernel so badly
[10:15] <xhaker> see if it's this time my centrino will be handled by the real module
[10:15] <Nafallo> xhaker: the kernel is binary new I believe.
[10:16] <xhaker> yes it is
[10:17] <xhaker> so.. hows development any problems rising?
[10:23] <dilinger> jbailey: ping me when you're back
[10:24] <Kamion> matara: sorry, I haven't been maintaining system-config-kickstart very well lately; please file a bug
[10:31] <sivang> Kamion: what does it do?
[10:32] <Kamion> sivang: apt-cache show system-config-kickstart
[10:33] <Kamion> been there since hoary, so I know you have it :)
[10:36] <sivang> Kamion: :-)
[10:37] <Burgwork> sivang, it is part of the redhat/fedora system-conifg stuff, cherrypicked into ubuntu
[10:38] <Nafallo> Kamion: something is blocking NEWing kernel btw? :-)
[10:41] <sivang> Burgwork: before hoary was released? I was kind'of low on being synced with ubuntu's release process, was then terribly busy with work that it didn't allow me to follow it, I even passed release day being away from testing /irc / ml...
[10:41] <Burgwork> sivang, somewhere around there, no idea
[10:43] <Kamion> Nafallo: no, I just don't spend all day watching the NEW queue
[10:43] <Kamion> and it's not really my job anyway, I'm just backup
[10:44] <sivang> Burgwork: I think I recall remotely now , that somewhere before hoary Kamion ported the kickstart stuf to allo wmass installs of ubuntu :)
[10:44] <Nafallo> Kamion: right. I didn't mean it in a bad way. just wondered if it was something like flight-4 or something :-).
[10:45] <jbailey> dilinger: ping
[10:45] <sivang> oh nice, it's python, and it explodes
[10:45] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:45] <dilinger> jbailey: you mentioned synching bzr yesterday..
[10:46] <dilinger> jbailey: 0.7-2 is in sid
[10:46] <jbailey> Right.  Elmo's not online so I'll email him.
[10:48] <Kamion> sivang: told you it was broken
[10:49] <Burgwork> sivang, all of system-config is python
[10:49] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: elmo is insanely busy those days, so please do give him and us some slack.
[10:49] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: re:NEW?
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: yes.
[10:50] <Kamion> I've NEWed the kernel anyway, but don't expect anything more from me tonight, would rather be with my family
[10:51] <sivang> Kamion: ah right, it's up there in the backlog..sorry for the noise, again.
[10:51] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: yea. it's just that it usually goes in faster, so I wanted to know if it was waiting for something fun :-). no worries for me since I already run the latest from p.u.c/~bcollins :-).
[10:52] <Kamion> linux-source-2.6.15  | 2.6.15-14.19   | all amd64 i386 powerpc       | 5 hours old
[10:52] <Kamion> a whole five hours, sorry we're all such slackers
[10:52] <bddebian> Yeah, slackers
[10:52] <tseng> bye Kamion, have a nice night
[10:53] <pitti> Good night everybody
[10:53] <itsmeeh> v
[10:54] <itsmeeh> must go today 1 alienware area51-m 5700 laptop price 650 includes shipping, carry case. message me on mcsltd@telusmail.net on msn or on mikcomputing on aim
[10:54] <pitti> bless you
[10:59] <jbailey> dilinger: Sent
[11:02] <LaserJock> hmm, I just realized that the volume sliders in Muine and Volume Control are upside down
[11:05] <Nafallo> ehrm? they are?
[11:43] <LeeJunFan> launchpad doesn't have an entry for mysql-server?
[11:46] <jbailey> LeeJunFan: Clearly it's certified to be bug free. =)
[11:47] <jbailey> LeeJunFan: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0
[11:47] <LeeJunFan> jbailey: :) except that /var/run/mysqld dir is 770, so users can't connect to the socket. ie. amarok.
[11:48] <jbailey> Err.  Isn't amarok a music player?
[11:48] <LeeJunFan> thanks, I see it's already in there for php.
[11:48] <LeeJunFan> yeah, it has the option of storing the playlist in mysql.
[11:49] <LeeJunFan> looks like it has been reported many times.