[12:27] <theCore> hi LaserJock 
[12:27] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[12:28] <theCore> did you work on the guide ?
[12:28] <LaserJock> yes a little bit, and I also got svn access so I can put stuff on the repo
[12:29] <LaserJock> theCore: do you have a docteam repo checkout?
[12:29] <theCore> yep
[12:30] <theCore> why?
[12:30] <LaserJock> I was thinking of committing the stuff I have, then you can work on it from the repo
[12:32] <theCore> good idea, this way I will just need to send you the diff
[12:34] <LaserJock> exactly
[12:35] <LaserJock> how do you include <'s and >'s without docbook thinking it's a tag?
[12:36] <theCore> &quote;
[12:36] <theCore> sorry, this for "
[12:40] <theCore> &laquo; and &raquo;
[12:41] <theCore> or &gt; &lt; 
[12:41] <LaserJock> thanks
[12:58] <LaserJock> theCore: ok, I gotta get home but I'll be back on in a bit. I just commited what I have. Send me patches ;-)
[01:49] <LaserJock> theCore: ok, I'm back
[01:53] <theCore> ok, I got the update
[01:56] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: ping
[01:56] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: pong
[01:57] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: commencing work on the desktop guide by installating flight 3 :)
[01:57] <jsgotangco> nice
[01:58] <jsgotangco> nobody really writes on that kubuntu doc anyhow, it would be nice to have someone do it
[01:58] <jsgotangco> editing the existing docs alone take a lot of time
[01:58] <robotgeek> apparently, the checkout brought me some kubuntu desktop guide file :)
[01:58] <jsgotangco> well yes
[01:58] <jsgotangco> there's already some part done by rob1
[01:58] <jsgotangco> but apparently rob1 disappeared
[01:59] <robotgeek> however, it has nothing 
[02:00] <robotgeek> i am going to maintain the hierarchy of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide
[02:00] <jsgotangco> if in doubt, consult Riddell
[02:00] <jsgotangco> but don't duplicate current KDE docs
[02:01] <robotgeek> hmm, yes
[02:02] <robotgeek> okay, i'll get to work on it then. 
[02:02] <jsgotangco> ok i
[02:02] <jsgotangco> ok i'll go back to work :)
[02:05] <LaserJock> so what is ok to work on in the Kubuntu docs? The Kubuntu Desktop Guide?
[02:05] <robotgeek> yeah, i picked it up just now :)
[02:05] <jsgotangco> yeah that's pretty much open territory
[02:05] <jsgotangco> but any kubuntu doc can benefit contributions
[02:06] <jsgotangco> like now i'm editing the quick guide
[02:06] <LaserJock> ok, well if I have some time I might try to help out too
[02:06] <LaserJock> but I'm getting spread pretty thin these days
[02:07] <jsgotangco> i'm not sure if its possible to finish up the desktop guide nor am I ready to write a whole new doc that's why i started re-editing the quickguide
[02:07] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: likewise :(
[02:08] <robotgeek> i have lots of  free time, so i'm trying to help in all ways possible. 
[02:08] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i also write as a profession, so my day is pretty spread out, most of it thinking...
[02:08] <jsgotangco> :(
[02:08] <jsgotangco> i find solace with nintendogs though
[02:09] <robotgeek> pet dogs? robotic?
[02:09] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: its a popular sim for the nintendo DS
[02:10] <robotgeek> i've been out of the loop for quite some while
[02:11] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: well I am working on becoming a MOTU as well as running the MOTU Science team as well as write the Ubuntu Packaging Guide as well as get my PhD done
[02:11] <LaserJock> but I know there are people much busier than me so I shouldn't complain
[02:11] <jsgotangco> wow at least you have time to go to grad school :/
[02:11] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i finished my Masters last month :)
[02:12] <LaserJock> it's actually very cool that I have the change to contribute to Ubuntu
[02:12] <LaserJock> robotgeek: what in? Robotics?
[02:12] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: how is writing as a profession?
[02:12] <robotgeek> LaserJock: actually, no. "Multifunctional Laparoscopic Tools"
[02:13] <LaserJock> umm, yeah. and that is?
[02:13] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: tiring but rewarding
[02:14] <robotgeek> LaserJock: well, laparoscopy is generally a srugical operation in which they make holes in your abdomenal region, and perform surgery there
[02:14] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I'm not a writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I do like having documentation
[02:14] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: are you a medical doctor?
[02:14] <LaserJock> robotgeek: oh, yes now I see
[02:15] <robotgeek> currenty tools are single use/single purpose only, the topic of my research was to design one which was could be used for multiple purposes
[02:15] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: mechanical engineer
[02:15] <jsgotangco> wow so engineers are the brainchild of those medical torture devices :/
[02:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:15] <jsgotangco> joke
[02:16] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I actually thought about doing medical engineering as an undergrad
[02:16] <robotgeek> robotics is something i've always been interested in,and hence the nick
[02:16] <robotgeek> LaserJock: physics now?
[02:17] <robotgeek> or chem, IIRC
[02:17] <LaserJock> robotgeek: my little brother just started college as a mechanical/electrical engineer but is interested in robotics
[02:17] <LaserJock> Physical Chemistry so your kind right both times
[02:17] <robotgeek> yeah, i am getting setup for a PhD in about 3 years time, lol
[02:18] <LaserJock> I think I have 1 more year. I didn't get a Masters
[02:18] <robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, where are you at?
[02:18] <LaserJock> University of Nevada, Reno
[02:19] <robotgeek> heh, how do you not gamble and study :)
[02:19] <jsgotangco> how did you go to PhD without getting a masters?
[02:20] <LaserJock> in Chemistry we don't have to get Master's we can go straight into PhD programs
[02:21] <LaserJock> robotgeek: well, it's easy because I see all the tourists gamble away all there money and I don't feel the urge ;-)
[02:22] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: most chemists get PhDs anyway so it cuts out a lot of duplicative work if you just do the PhD program directly from your Bachelors degree
[02:22] <robotgeek> currently job hunting, so lots of free time 
[02:22] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[02:23] <LaserJock> some people like to just go and watch the poker games
[02:23] <LaserJock> I find the casinos to be quite smoky though so I don't go to them except for the food :-)
[02:24] <LaserJock> robotgeek: where are you located?
[02:24] <robotgeek> LaserJock: right now Dallas,TX
[02:26] <LaserJock> robotgeek: oh, cool. minghua is currently at Rice, he is on the MOTU Science team as well
[02:26] <LaserJock> robotgeek: and tritium is our lone MOTU and he is at Sandia National Lab in NM
[02:26] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i am at UT -Arlington though
[02:27] <robotgeek> i missed meeting up with tritium my last visit to NM
[02:29] <robotgeek> i want to pick up all the basic skills for MOTU stuff, finish with the packaging guide LaserJock :)
[02:29] <robotgeek> j/k
[02:29] <LaserJock> I'm getting there
[02:30] <LaserJock> I really want it done but I seem to write too much
[02:30] <robotgeek> i just need polish, so it's alrite
[02:30] <LaserJock> I need to learn how to write docs properly
[02:30] <robotgeek> LaserJock: will be useful for dissertation :)
[02:31] <LaserJock> maybe
[02:31] <LaserJock> I have a conference next week and I have to do the poster soon.
[02:31] <robotgeek> damn, lotsa work
[02:31] <LaserJock> sometimes I wish I could just ditch the PhD and work for Ubuntu
[02:32] <robotgeek> i am just glad i got thru with my thesis writing, it was the most boring part
[02:33] <LaserJock> what did you use to write it?
[02:33] <robotgeek> latex
[02:33] <jsgotangco> ever reliable
[02:33] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I use too
[02:33] <robotgeek> though my prof was not very supportive
[02:33] <LaserJock> really, my prof would only let me use latex
[02:34] <robotgeek> the rest of the lab uses word, so he did not want to do something "funky"
[02:34] <robotgeek> he would have to relearn it, so he was hesitant. 
[02:34] <robotgeek> i just kept mailing him pdf's and it worked out fine
[02:35] <robotgeek> i got thru the mechanical check in one shot, yay!
[02:35] <LaserJock> My boss couldn't use Windows to save his life, although we are just getting iMacs so we might use Word more
[02:36] <robotgeek> my thesis was written in Openoffice and Latex :)
[02:36] <robotgeek> i used the WritertoLatex convertor, and that saved me a lot of time
[02:37] <LaserJock> hmm, I use emacs ;-)
[02:37] <robotgeek> it's really neat, you should check it out
[02:37] <robotgeek> i use vim + latexsuite :)
[02:38] <LaserJock> but now I'm getting an iMac and won't have my linux box at work :(
[02:38] <robotgeek> emacs has a port, i guess
[02:39] <theCore> LaserJock, emacs is installed by default on the Macs
[02:39] <LaserJock> I use vim a lot too
[02:39] <LaserJock> theCore: cool
[02:39] <LaserJock> I'm really not satisfied by either emacs or vim at the moment
[02:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: why?
[02:40] <LaserJock> I like a lot of how vim work but I like the "goodies" of emacs
[02:40] <LaserJock> it's like gnome and kde for me as well
[02:40] <LaserJock> I like the look and feel of gnome but I like the apps of kde
[02:40] <robotgeek> yeah, i've got xubuntu running with kmail running :)
[02:41] <LaserJock> so I end up installing gnome and kde and emacs and vim
[02:41] <LaserJock> I started out on emacs because that is what my prof uses and he is the one who got me going on linux
[02:41] <LaserJock> but it is huge and so I started looking into vim
[02:41] <LaserJock> and I like it quite a bit so far
[02:42] <robotgeek> i started out with emacs too, but got all foobarred with emacs keybindings on the mac. 
[02:42] <robotgeek> i learnt vim, and have not looked back
[02:44] <LaserJock> I like it too but I wish it had some debian tools (debian-el, dpkg-dev-el, and devscripts-el are great for packagers) and the spell checking was kinda hard to get going
[02:44] <robotgeek> hmm, what do they do?
[02:45] <LaserJock> they are modes for the Debian bug system (so you can send bugs from emacs) and syntax hilighting for package files (changelogs, control files, etc.)
[02:45] <LaserJock> I haven't used them much but I think it even has a pbuilder mode
[02:45] <robotgeek> i get that in vim 
[02:46] <LaserJock> robotgeek: well, I'm not saying it can't be done in vim, I just don't know how ;-)
[02:46] <robotgeek> LaserJock: no, i mean i got it out of the box
[02:47] <LaserJock> robotgeek: what?
[02:47] <robotgeek> the syntax highlighting
[02:47] <LaserJock> for packaging files?
[02:48] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yes, did you enable filetype plugin on filetype on filetype indent on in your .vimrc ?
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah, I think so. Let me try it out
[02:50] <robotgeek> LaserJock: take a look at http://robotgeek.org/dotfiles/vimrc
[02:51] <theCore> LaserJock, check my .vimrc file http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7598
[02:51] <theCore> LaserJock, I got syntax highlighting for all files
[02:51] <theCore> except plain text
[02:52] <theCore> I got from the vim docs
[02:52] <theCore> I got it*
[02:53] <theCore> LaserJock, you can start syntax highlighting by hand too
[02:54] <theCore> from vim command line enter: `syntax on'
[02:56] <LaserJock> ok, just a sec guys. I have syntax hilighting on, I just didn't think it would hilight changelogs, etc.
[02:57] <LaserJock> hot dog, it does highlight them
[02:58] <robotgeek> also indents and stuff. make sure you don't have expand tab set while editing the "rules" file
[02:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I think I turned that off for python too
[02:59] <robotgeek> i have that set in python
[03:00] <robotgeek> the next great debate, "tabs vs spaces", lol
[03:01] <LaserJock> I do tabs
[03:02] <LaserJock> ok, my current .vimrc is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7599
[03:05] <theCore> lol, I like the " fix spelling retardation" section
[03:06] <LaserJock> I just picke it up of a web page somewhere and thought it was a good idea
[03:07] <LaserJock> I just threw a bunch of stuff in I found on the internet and commented out the stuff I didn't like
[03:07] <robotgeek> any good plugins for vim, other than the xml edit plugin for docbook stuff?
[03:10] <LaserJock> well, I've tried different spelling plugins, with varying success
[03:11] <LaserJock> I've also got a calendar plugin and a svn plugin, I think
[03:11] <robotgeek> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7737 i found this, but can't download the plugins
[03:13] <robotgeek> hmm, anyways. back to work now, later
[03:13] <LaserJock> me too
[03:15] <LaserJock> robotgeek_away: what is :%s/ for?
[03:20] <LaserJock> theCore: have you had a chance to look at the packaging guide?
[03:35] <theCore> LaserJock, yes, why did you fragmented the GNU Licence in the main page ?
[03:36] <LaserJock> I didn't, it's the standard GPL of the doc team
[03:36] <LaserJock> I just used an include
[03:36] <theCore> really ? if so, it ugly
[03:36] <theCore> s/it/it's/
[03:37] <LaserJock> well, the docteam doesn't use GPL so maybe we might work on that
[03:37] <robotgeek> LaserJock: the %s thing is to replace all the dos chracters
[03:37] <LaserJock> robotgeek: oh, thanks.
[03:37] <robotgeek> the weird 
[03:37] <robotgeek> the 
[03:38] <robotgeek> sorry
[03:38] <LaserJock> if I edit something in vim in Windows will I get those?
[03:40] <robotgeek> possibly, but it's easy to remove
[03:40] <theCore> LaserJock, DOS put two character at the end of each lines (I think it's \r\n) , *NIX OSes use only the newline ( \n ) character to end lines
[03:41] <LaserJock> hmm, cause I was thinking of editing some stuff on Windows and but I don't wan to commit them if they are going to have weird characters at the end
[03:44] <theCore> LaserJock, I like your the source packages section you added into the guide
[03:45] <LaserJock> we need to flesh it out a bit but it seems to come up now and then about how packagers really work with the source packages
[04:43] <mpt> LaserJock, most moderate- to high-powered editors on Windows let you choose the line endings for a particular file
[04:44] <LaserJock> mpt: oh, ok. good to know
[04:45] <LaserJock> I have a repo checkout on my Windows laptop that I usually use at home and now that I can commit I was thinking of using it but I don't want to put a bunch of stupid stuff at the ends of the lines
[04:47] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, ya, don't
[04:59] <Burgundavia> anybody looking for some wiki work todo?
[05:02] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: sorry, I'm working on the packaging guide as we speak
[05:02] <Burgundavia> I am cleaning out my todo list and being ruthless about which I realistically don't have time todo
[05:05] <LaserJock> ohh, I hate doing that
[05:05] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: maybe
[05:05] <Burgundavia> yes, because it involves so many broken dreams
[05:06] <Burgundavia> "I wanted to do that!"
[05:06] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, it involves parsing one email and feeding changes to a specific wiki page
[05:06] <robotgeek> okay, sounds doable. details
[05:06] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, can I forward you the email?
[05:06] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: sure
[05:08] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, thanks a lot. Didn't want to drop it on the floor
[05:10] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: u know my email?
[05:10] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, venkatraghavan@gmail.com ?
[05:11] <robotgeek> yup
[05:11] <Burgundavia> yay, under 50 things todo
[05:12] <Burgundavia> salut bshumate 
[05:17] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: got it, Subject: HowTo restore GRUB with install CD
[05:18] <robotgeek> is that the right thing?
[05:19] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, indeed
[05:20] <robotgeek> i will take care of it then, all i have to do is cut paste, mostly
[05:20] <robotgeek> later then, i gotta run
[05:40] <LaserJock> is linux generally capitalized?
[05:42] <mpt> LaserJock, yes
[05:42] <mpt> it's a proper noun
[05:43] <LaserJock> k, thanks
[06:19] <LaserJock> in general how do you guys figure out how much material you shoudl commit to the repo at one time?
[08:55] <mdke> Burgundavia, of course attachments aren't page specific in Moin, it's not _that_ stupid
[08:56] <mdke> robotgeek_away, the idea was for the kubuntu desktop guide to use the Ubuntu desktop guide. but that isn't really ready yet. Best to talk to jjesse
[08:56] <Burgundavia> mdke, hmm, ok I was mistaken. So it rises from chimp to that of great ape
[08:57] <mdke> a chimp is an ape
[08:57] <Burgundavia> anyway, you get what i mean
[08:57] <Burgundavia> bloody english, getting up early
[08:58] <Burgundavia> :)
[08:58] <mdke> :)
[08:58] <mdke> it was a struggle...
[08:58] <mdke> hello Que_Pasa, que pasa
[08:59] <jsgotangco> :P
[09:08] <Burgundavia> mdke, the caveat with attaching images from other icons if you have to know where they are attached to, that is ugh
[09:08] <Burgundavia> s/icons/pages
[09:13] <Burgundavia> anyway, night all
[10:22] <robotgeek> mdke: hmm, i can atleast borrow the structure :)
[10:25] <mdke> robotgeek, hopefully much of the content too
[10:26] <robotgeek> stuff like java,etc should remain the same. Stuff like sound/internet will change
[10:27] <robotgeek> we'll see :)
[10:29] <mdke> yep
[10:29] <robotgeek> neways, just popped in to check the action, gotta sleep now
[10:30] <mdke> robotgeek, and if you see some problems with it, feel free to give us a patch on that too :)
[10:30] <mdke> night
[10:30] <jsgotangco> mmm?
[10:30] <robotgeek> mdke: sure, will do. i just got vim setup to do docbook stuff
[10:30] <robotgeek> hey jsgotangco , just heading out. 
[10:31] <jsgotangco> night robotgeek 
[02:00] <ompaul> Burgwork, if one did not do rm -rf a part of their machine that was important they might have done something on boot options yesterday - today I am busy but should get to it before weekend
[07:01] <Burgwork> hmm, digg is linking to FirefoxNewVersion
[07:16] <mgalvin> hmm :-/
[07:16] <Burgwork> no is good
[08:36] <Burgwork> interesting ad at the bottom of a newsforge article. "Ubuntu vs Xandros 3", paid for by Xandros
[08:37] <jjesse> i saw that ad @ kubntuforums.net yesterday
[08:38] <Burgwork> lovely
[08:38] <Burgwork> funny that they are worried about us though, given their focus is very much in business
[08:38] <Burgwork> but I guess we threaten them in the education market