[12:03] <Kamion> yeah, what mako said - I don't imagine it'll be a problem once we have a good account of what you've done, it's just a matter of laying that out for us
[12:03] <mako> anandaputra: cool.. email with me beforehand if you're unclear
[12:04] <mako> lmanul: alright
[12:04] <mako> lmanul: you're up
[12:04] <lmanul> :)
[12:05] <mako> lmanul: no need to repost
[12:05] <mako> lmanul: but give us MORE
[12:05] <anandaputra> ok.. thanks mako..
[12:05] <lmanul> I first started using Linux back in 1999 with a "Yellow dog" distro onto my iMac. Since then, I've been using Debian quite a lot, until I found out about Ubuntu in spring 2005, simply fell in love with it, and decided to let it replace Debian on my 3 boxes (incl a server). Ubuntu had reached the point where I could really advise my non-computer-aware friends to switch to Linux.
[12:05] <lmanul> I then began to really contribute when I participated in Google's "Summer of Code 2005", and I had so much fun hacking Ubuntu and GNOME with the help of seb128 that I never stopped :) So here I am, wanting to really be part of the community, and keep on hacking (especially on UI issues) to make Ubuntu even easier to use and even nicer to look at !
[12:05] <lmanul> Wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManuCornet ) and launchpad ( https://launchpad.net/people/manu-cornet ) but they mostly link to http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/ where I described what I've been doing for Ubuntu.
[12:05] <lmanul> A few recommandations :
[12:05] <lmanul> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/lmanul_ubuntu
[12:05] <lmanul> And I think vuntz /queried Kamion a little while ago to give some recommandation about me as well
[12:06] <mako> cool
[12:06] <mako> i know you
[12:06] <ogra> do we really need recommendations ? 
[12:06] <lmanul> And huh, dholbach doesn't seem to be here :)
[12:06] <ogra> lmanul, brought us the new logout dialog 
[12:06] <seb128> I think you have enough without him :p
[12:06] <earobinson> summer of code wow!
[12:06] <lmanul> ;-)
[12:06] <ogra> that speaks for itself :)
[12:06] <Kyral> umm, nuff said?
[12:06] <Kamion> 18:28 <vuntz> Manu has been helping enthusiastically in the past few months: he's implemented features, giving feedback, etc., and (this is most important) he has contributed to the "love" atmosphere of the
[12:06] <Kamion>               desktop team. And he's French. So I support his application :-)
[12:07] <Kyral> lol
[12:07] <ogra> oh, and dont forget the add to panel dialog ...
[12:07] <licio> :-)
[12:07] <seb128> "lmanul is a great contibutor for the desktop teams for some months now. He started with a bounty for the Google summer of code, working on the "add to panel" dialog for gnome-panel we ship at the moment and some change for gnome-menus/admin. He's responsive since on the bugs on the code he wrote, helps on bug triage, worked on a separator applet for gnome-applets (which is shipped upstream now), did the patch for the new gnome-session dialo
[12:07] <seb128> g and the icons for it, and is active on IRC and on the desktop list. I recommend it for ubuntu membership
[12:07] <seb128> "
[12:07] <mako> is being french an asset or a liability? <duck>
[12:07] <seb128> that's what I wrote, better and the URI :p
[12:07] <mako> it depends on if you're trying to sign a contract i guess ;)
[12:08] <earobinson> lol
[12:08] <mako> according to elmo, it's very complicating and somehow involves the marquis de sade
[12:08] <ogra> mako, you could always pretend to be a french speaking brazilian :)
[12:08] <seb128> beeing french make easier for you to read #ubuntu-desktop sometime :)
[12:08] <lmanul> haha
[12:08] <mako> seb128: i imagine :)
[12:08] <seb128> :p
[12:09] <Kamion> I'm impressed by all the desktop contributions and I'm particularly pleased to see people continuing to work on Ubuntu after the Summer of Code
[12:09] <mako> Kamion: amen :)
[12:09] <mako> lmanul: thrilled to have your contributions to date
[12:09] <mako> and looking forward to the future
[12:09] <mako> lots of good stuff
[12:09] <Kamion> me too if it wasn't clear
[12:09] <elmo> ack too
[12:09] <mako> lmanul: welcome :)
[12:10] <lmanul> Thanks a lot guys !
[12:10] <ogra> welcome lmanul 
[12:10] <lmanul> ogra, I'll do my best :-p
[12:10] <seb128> lamont: congrats :)
[12:10] <raphink> welcome lmanul 
[12:10] <ogra> *g*
[12:10] <seb128> ups
[12:10] <seb128> lmanul: congrats :)
[12:10] <ogra> lool
[12:10] <lmanul> Thanks everyone
[12:10] <licio> Congratulations lmanul 
[12:11] <freeflying_> mako:  May I be the next 
[12:11] <mako> freeflying_: you are next
[12:11] <freeflying_> I live in China PRC , my name is Hou ZhengPeng , a member of ubuntu-cn locoteam .I've worked on package for kubuntu ,  do my best for BetterCJKsupport and do some test about CJK also I have translated some docs about ubntu into chinese . My future plan focus on following two : 1 promote the using of ubuntu in chinese ,2 establish kubuuntu-zh website for chinese 3 continue BetterCJKSupport spec 
[12:11] <freeflying_> My wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Freeflying
[12:12] <Riddell> freeflying_ has been doing great at telling me what to do to get CKJ support in kubuntu better
[12:12] <mako> freeflying_: i'd personally like to work with you on some of your input method work :)
[12:12] <ogra> mako, minghua is applying for membership today too :)
[12:13] <minghua> I read freeflying_'s (and other ubuntu-cn people's) work on ubuntu.org.cn
[12:13] <ogra> seems we finally have some people to solve input methds 
[12:13] <mako> ogra: yes
[12:13] <minghua> they've done very well documentation work there, helping new users in the forums
[12:13] <Riddell> he's also packaged various CKJ fonts and skim input for kubuntu, so I'm all for his membership
[12:13] <mako> are the ubuntu-tw , ubuntu-cn and ubuntu-hk teams all collaborating on doc stuff?
[12:13] <mako> the wikipage seems to imply that
[12:14] <minghua> I also think freeflying_'s English skill is important for communication between Chinese users and the whole community
[12:14] <freeflying_> mako: y , we are working on that 
[12:14] <mako> wow, that's great :)
[12:14] <\sh> on freeflying and minghua are doing a great job in teaching motus and main devs how to use input methods...they helped a lot to find some issues in qt3 and the immodule patch :)
[12:14] <mako> debian had some pretty famous political problems in this regard
[12:14] <Kamion> minghua: I guess we'll get to you in a moment, but are you in broad agreement with freeflying_ on the direction we need to take on input methods?
[12:14] <minghua> I also appreciate his BetterCJKSupport proposal, which attracted quite some people
[12:15] <mako> i think this is one of the major areas that ubuntu needs to focus energy in the next year or two
[12:15] <minghua> Kamion: that depends on what he want to do with input method packages
[12:15] <mako> minghua: i'd like to have them connected to language packs
[12:16] <minghua> I've not talked with freeflying_ much on input method issue, and I don't really know his plan
[12:16] <mako> and have necessary configuration happen automagically
[12:16] <minghua> mako: we can get to it when it's my turn :-)
[12:16] <mako> cool
[12:16] <mako> freeflying_: how long have you been involved?
[12:16] <mako> ogra: how long have you seen freeflying_'s contributions?
[12:17] <mako> because the wikpage shows great work but seems a little thin IMHO
[12:17] <freeflying_> mako: 5/2005
[12:17] <Riddell> he's been around for a good while
[12:17] <mako> the magic month
[12:17] <ogra> mako, i'm not deep into KDE stuff, but since quite some time 
[12:17] <minghua> freeflying_: I am interested in mako's question about cn, tw, hk's collaboration as well
[12:17] <freeflying_> minghua: we may talk about that sonner after 
[12:17] <Riddell> and is on #kubuntu-devel daily
[12:17] <mako> *some* amount of collaboration is going to be necessary in that we all work together at a common place
[12:17] <freeflying_> s/sonner/sooner
[12:17] <mako> but if we can have more direct collaboration on obviously related problems, that's *awesome*
[12:18] <ogra> mako++
[12:18] <minghua> mako: the BetterCJKSupport proposal work is done by all CJK people
[12:18] <mako> great
[12:18] <mako> ok..
[12:18] <mako> lets get back to freeflying_'s application
[12:18] <mako> since it's been over 2 hours now
[12:18] <Kyral> yes...please...
[12:18] <minghua> but on the documentation side what I've seen is completed separated work
[12:18] <Kyral> Kyral....hungry....
[12:19] <mako> Riddell, ogra: would you be ok with membership or prefer to wait a meeting or two
[12:19] <Riddell> mako: he's been around long enough and has consistenly been helping with CJK, I'm all in support of his membership
[12:20] <mako> alright..
[12:20] <Riddell> and tests dapper frequently for CJK and other issues
[12:20] <mako> freeflying_: are you involved in an loco team?
[12:20] <freeflying_> mako:  sure ubuntu-cn
[12:21] <mako> nice webpage :)
[12:21] <freeflying_> mako: thx
[12:22] <Kamion> I'm fine with freeflying_ for membership based on testimonials
[12:22] <elmo> me too
[12:22] <mako> freeflying_: i'm happy to have you on board
[12:22] <mako> alright
[12:23] <mako> freeflying_: welcome!
[12:23] <minghua> congratulations freeflying_
[12:23] <mako> last up to bat
[12:23] <freeflying_> mako: thx
[12:23] <minghua> my turn?
[12:23] <freeflying_> thx all
[12:23] <\sh> freeflying_: welcome on board :)
[12:23] <licio> welcome freeflying_ :-D
[12:23] <ogra> congrats freeflying_ 
[12:23] <minghua> Okay.  My name is Ming Hua.  wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MingHua  launchpad profile: https://launchpad.net/people/minghua
[12:23] <freeflying_> \sh licio  ogra :thx
[12:24] <minghua> I am a Chinese coming from mainland China.  Currently I am a Ph.D. student on materials science, in Rice University, Houston, USA.
[12:24] <minghua> My main contribution so far has been: 1. testing and reporting bugs; 2. helping MOTUs with transitions and merges; 3. taking care of the SCIM related packages (I am the Debian maintainer of some of them).
[12:24] <minghua> My future plan would be: 1. maintaining and improving SCIM related packages, as input methods seem to be a popular request from users and Ubuntu seems to be lacking people that work on this; 2. help MOTU science team, especially on collaborating with Debian.
[12:24] <Kamion> minghua's been around for a long time - I remember your name from a conversation about translations late in the hoary cycle I think
[12:24] <minghua> I would also like to mention that I am heavily involved in the i18n/l10n work in Debian, which I think Ubuntu will also benefit from.
[12:24] <Kyral> I was surprised that he wasn't a Member
[12:24] <Kamion> or was it warty, one of those
[12:24] <minghua> Kamion: yes, that's probably my first Ubuntu bug :-)
[12:25] <minghua> mako: back to the input method issue you mentioned:  I would love to see input method support integrated into lang-pack too
[12:25] <\sh> minghua is quite active in the MOTU area and also one of hell bug squasher
[12:25] <minghua> but I am not really a programmer, so I definitely need help on that
[12:26] <ogra> elmo just synced his scim package from debian :)
[12:26] <minghua> however as I've indicated on my wiki page, input method support is my first priority in both Debian and Ubunut
[12:26] <freeflying_> minghua has contributed much oto scim 
[12:26] <mako> minghua: we're gonna do it
[12:26] <Kamion> as with freeflying_ I'm happy to have more people who actually know about input methods, and particularly getting the Debian scim maintainer on-board is clearly the right thing to do
[12:26] <mako> minghua: if we can get people from 4 other languages represented.. we can do this
[12:26] <minghua> and I would definitely pursue automatical IM support in dapper+1 if we don't have enough time for dapper
[12:26] <mako> minghua: we'll do it
[12:27] <Kamion> and I approve of the detailed wiki page :)
[12:27] <Kyral> okay I'm off. I support minghua :P
[12:27] <Kamion> so minghua++ as far as I'm concerned
[12:27] <minghua> thanks Kyral :-)
[12:27] <mako> minghua: i don't think we have time to test it honestly for dapper.. because the changes are pretty invasive
[12:27] <earobinson> bye Kyral 
[12:27] <mako> minghua: we should *start* planning for dapper+1
[12:27] <LaserJock> minghua is helping me (and MOTU Science in general) with his knowledge of Debian and desire for collaboration
[12:27] <elmo> ack from me too
[12:27] <mako> minghua: we should meet up sometime this week to strategize
[12:27] <minghua> mako: yes that's my concern too, especially dapper will be supported for 3 years
[12:27] <mako> minghua: awesome :)
[12:28] <minghua> mako: and scim upstream now essetianlly don't support old release branches :-(
[12:28] <earobinson> can I ask what " automatical IM support" is going to be?
[12:28] <minghua> mako: that would be wonderful (having some help from others)
[12:29] <Kamion> I believe I've approved everyone from this meeting in Launchpad; let me know if I've missed anyone
[12:29] <mako> Kamion: you rock
[12:29] <mako> awesome
[12:29] <mako> so i think that's it
[12:29] <minghua> earobinson: my vision is that you choose CJK (chinese, japanese, korean) as the language in install, input method (hopefully scim :-) packages will be automatically installed, and when you boot into you new gnome/kde desktop, you can use IM immediately
[12:29] <mako> i approve of minghua, if that wasn't clear
[12:29] <Kamion> yep, any other business before we close?
[12:29] <mako> minghua: YES
[12:29] <\sh> minghua: congrats :)
[12:29] <mako> minghua: BROTHER
[12:29] <minghua> that still requries a lot of work, though
[12:30] <Kamion> please say no, my wife would like to actually see me tonight :)
[12:30] <minghua> thanks, mako, 
[12:30] <mako> minghua: this has been my #1 goal for ubuntu since almost day one :)
[12:30] <mako> ok ok ok
[12:30] <minghua> thanks d ogra
[12:30] <mako> i think that means the MEETING IS OVER
[12:30] <mako> Kamion: quickly run away :)
[12:30] <mako> thanks everyone who was here at weird times
[12:30] <minghua> thanks for the CC members too 
[12:30] <ogra> Kamion, only 30min and its early morning already, hurry up :)
[12:31] <mako> lets do it like 10 hours earlier next time
[12:31] <minghua> for such a long meeting
[12:31] <nealmcb> fascinating - thanks folks!
[12:31] <mako> next meeting at UTC12
[12:31] <mako> two weeks from today
[12:31] <mako> ?
[12:31] <mako> sounds sane
[12:31] <Kamion> works for me
[12:31] <mako> cool
[12:31] <freeflying_> minghua: would you mind have a talk about scim with me when you have time 
[12:32] <elmo> me too
[12:32] <minghua> freeflying_: I have time right now
[12:32] <minghua> if it's not too early for you ;-)
[12:32] <seb128> elmo: could you install gnome-menus Build-Depends on the breezy amd64 chroot?
[12:32] <elmo> (mark will still be on tour tho, and likely unable to attend)
[12:32] <elmo> seb128: RT it?  I'll do it before I go to bed
[12:33] <earobinson111> sorry got DCed <earobinson> can I ask what " automatical IM support" is going to be?
[12:33] <seb128> elmo: right, doing that now, thank you
[12:33] <mako> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Jan 12:00 UTC:  Edubuntu | 26 Jan 20:00 UTC:  Dapper Development Status |  27 Jan 22:00 UTC: Documentation Team Meeting | 31 Jan  20:00 UTC:  Technical Board | 7 February 12:00 UTC: Community Council
[12:33] <freeflying_> minghua: anyway I'd have my breakfast firstly 
[12:33] <mako> thanks everyone for showing up!
[12:33] <elmo> ok, I'm out.  night all, thanks everuone
[12:33] <mako> g'night
[12:33] <manicka> ciao all
[12:33] <mako> i have another irc meeting to be in
[12:33] <mako> for the GPLv3 
[12:33] <mako> bah
[12:33] <azeem> yay meetings
[12:34] <FLeiXiuS> mako: goodluck, I love v3 so far.
[02:29] <Ubuntuser_Ba> Seveas: ping
[06:51] <FLeiXiuS> I'm currently upgrading my Gateway, I'l be back after ipcop decides to play nice!  :-)
[01:00] <licio> Seveas, ping
[01:00] <JaneW> hello
[01:00] <jelkner> good morning!
[01:00] <juliux> hi all
[01:00] <JaneW> hi jelkner 
[01:01] <jelkner> JaneW: hi jane, did you get my email?
[01:01] <JaneW> jelkner: you are up first today :)
[01:01] <jelkner> cool!
[01:01] <JaneW> let's just give it 2 mins
[01:01] <jelkner> ok
[01:02] <juliux> hi mhz 
[01:02] <mhz> hi juliux
[01:02] <JaneW> Q: Who is the target audience for the Edubuntu Cookbook? Hosted by jelkner - 5-10 mins
[01:02] <flint_> good morning edubuntu'ers
[01:02] <JaneW> flint_: wanna do minutes?
[01:02] <kjcole> Hi all.
[01:02] <JaneW> hi kjcole 
[01:03] <JaneW> hi juliux 
[01:03] <JaneW> hi mhz 
[01:03] <kjcole> jelkner, outlines at http://docbox.flint.com/~kjcole/outlines.html
[01:03] <mhz> hi JaneW 
[01:03] <flint_> JaneW, we need to talk this offline.  is matt around?
[01:03] <mhz> flint_: hi edubuntero
[01:03] <JaneW> flint_: I think he is yes
[01:04] <JaneW> ok is ogra around?
[01:04] <ogra> yup
[01:04] <JaneW> highvoltage: ping
[01:04] <JaneW> hi ogra
[01:04] <JaneW> who else do we need?
[01:04] <ogra> i dont have to telly you much this week ...
[01:04] <JaneW> mhz: I do know that :)
[01:04] <mhz> heheh, it was for minutes purposes
[01:04] <JaneW> ogra: is that good or bad?
[01:04] <JaneW> ogra: do we have flight 3 testers?
[01:04] <ogra> good for ubuntu, bad for edubuntu :)
[01:05] <JaneW> :((
[01:05] <JaneW> ok lets not get into that yet
[01:05] <ogra> i have done mostly ubuntu UVF work last week 
[01:05] <JaneW> are we ready to start?
[01:05] <jelkner> tell me when
[01:05] <flint_> Mauritzo, I like it ... edubuntero indeed!
[01:05] <JaneW> I have promised that jelkner can go first, since he has limited time...
[01:05] <JaneW> jelkner: hit it
[01:06] <jelkner> Ok, the question we need to resolve is: "Who is the target audience for the cookbook?"
[01:06] <JaneW> I would say the peron who sets up the lab
[01:06] <highvoltage> JaneW: pong, i am just about to go into another meeting though :/
[01:06] <jelkner> the answer to that question will determine which way we go forward
[01:06] <JaneW> so either a teacher or beginner techie
[01:06] <JaneW> highvoltage: ok, can we have a web update next week?
[01:06] <highvoltage> JaneW: yep
[01:07] <jelkner> JaneW: that was my orignial assumption
[01:07] <JaneW> highvoltage: can you respond to question above?
[01:07] <JaneW> "Who is the target audience for the cookbook?"
[01:07] <flint_> Morning Johnathan...
[01:07] <JaneW> I don;t think it's the kids necessarily, although they may read it too
[01:07] <JaneW> ogra?
[01:07] <jelkner> Keep in mind there are direct implications to how we work depending on what we are aiming at.
[01:07] <ogra> JaneW, ?
[01:08] <jelkner> and we don't want to aim at "everyone"
[01:08] <highvoltage> hi flihnt
[01:08] <JaneW> ogra: looking for an opinion on "Who is the target audience for the cookbook?"
[01:08] <jelkner> makes the book not that usable by anyone
[01:08] <ogra> yes, i wonder why  :)
[01:08] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think the answer to that is, from a technical pov, it should be doable by teachers without any help
[01:08] <JaneW> the book is about how to set up a lab ,right?
[01:08] <highvoltage> but organisations who would like to replicate should be able to use it
[01:08] <ogra> the atrget should be the admin who sets up the lab in first line
[01:08] <highvoltage> got to run, i'm being called!
[01:08] <JaneW> highvoltage: so you agree with my 'either a teacher or beginner techie'
[01:08] <JaneW> bye
[01:09] <flint_> highvoltage, I promise by next meeting I ill learn how to spell...
[01:09] <ogra> but the content should make it possible to use the cookbook in a class as well to explain ltsp and edubuntu
[01:09] <JaneW> jelkner/ kjcole : think that's possible?^
[01:09] <jelkner> ogra: what do you mean by "use the cookbook in a class"?
[01:09] <kjcole> JaneW: How to set up and use (as in ok, now I've got a lab... how do I use it to teach... Moodle, etc)... maybe.
[01:09] <lucasvo> I don't know in which class one is supposed to learn something about edubuntu
[01:10] <JaneW> jelkner: he is saying it can also be used to teach 'what is linux' 'what is FOSS'
[01:10] <ogra> jelkner, as teaching material ..
[01:10] <jelkner> hmm..
[01:10] <ogra> JaneW, nope, not in this wide range 
[01:10] <ogra> only what is ltsp, what is edubuntu
[01:10] <JaneW> jelkner: got a URL for the cookbook so we can see what's in it now?
[01:10] <ogra> there are enough good docs explaining FOSS out there :)
[01:11] <lucasvo> I think there should be a general part and a part with a step by step explanation(something like: do this: sudo do this: rm -rf / do this ....)
[01:11] <jelkner> there can never be enough! ;-)
[01:12] <lucasvo> so at the beginning of every chapter for e.g. Installation of Network hardware, there should be a theoretical part explaining TCP/IP, netmask and that kind of stuff
[01:12] <jelkner> Can I take a few minutes to explain what prompted this discussion?
[01:12] <JaneW> we need the url, so ppl like lucasvo can see it
[01:12] <Seveas> licio, pong
[01:12] <JaneW> jelkner: YES please do
[01:13] <jelkner> OK, we started with the TuxLab Cookbook
[01:13] <lucasvo> we need a "server" for bzr, so people can checkout and merge
[01:13] <jelkner> which is very much like the book most of you are describing
[01:13] <JaneW> ogra: you got a server for us? ;)
[01:13] <flint_> lucasd, got one.  docboc.flint.com
[01:13] <JaneW> jelkner: yes, cos that's what we have seen ;)
[01:13] <flint_> corrction docbox.flint.com
[01:13] <jelkner> Ou original plan was to keep to that text as much a possible
[01:13] <jelkner> and to modify for Edubuntu
[01:14] <ogra> JaneW, if i can store the hwdb on your home PC you can have some space on my server :P
[01:14] <JaneW> jelkner: right, and has that changed?
[01:14] <jelkner> If we pursue this path, we will need help from ogra and others who actually built the system, to make sure we get it right
[01:14] <JaneW> sure we'll need some technical reviewing
[01:15] <ogra> jelkner, i'm a bit overloaded until after the sprint (feature freeze) after this i'll have some more time to care for docs etc ...
[01:15] <jelkner> in Kevin's discussion with ogra, he seemed to suggest that we won't need alot of the detail we were asking him for
[01:16] <flint_> ogra, ollie, do not lie to the nice tech writer, you are a programmer.  Documentation is your sworn enemy :^)
[01:16] <jelkner> and we didn't want to be a pain and keep bothering him, but while we can right, we don't know the details
[01:16] <jelkner> also there is the question of others wanting to participate more
[01:16] <JaneW> jelkner: right and is it very different to the current text?
[01:17] <jelkner> that got us thinking about a very different kind of cookbook
[01:17] <mhz> lucasvo: in an edubutu training class
[01:17] <ogra> i just led a new user through ltsp installation last night, i could advise him with two lines to get it working ... there are not much details you need to know ...
[01:17] <jelkner> one aimed not at technical folks, but at end users
[01:17] <JaneW> jsgotangco and mhz have become fairly involved they may be able to help with the tech writing
[01:17] <ogra> but the end users are technical folks in our case
[01:17] <jelkner> not true
[01:17] <ogra> i.e. school admins, teachers that care for the server
[01:18] <jelkner> at least in our area, most of the "users" aren't technical people at all
[01:18] <Treenaks> ogra: more technical than 'the general public', but still not sysadmin gods
[01:18] <ogra> i didnt say sysadmin gods ;)
[01:18] <JaneW> yes I also think that even 'technical' types my be only familiar with MS stuff
[01:18] <ogra> that should be enough 
[01:19] <jelkner> the big question is around installation
[01:19] <jelkner> the TuxLab book is mostly about setting up a lab
[01:19] <jelkner> and *much* less about using it
[01:19] <kjcole> The original cookbook went into great detail about the stages of booting ("... then tftp bla-bla-bla...")   Who was that intended for?
[01:19] <jelkner> Edubuntu is different in two ways:
[01:19] <jelkner> 1. It is much easier to setup
[01:20] <jelkner> 2. The applications is comes with are much more standard
[01:20] <JaneW> jelkner: know what, I am happy for you to create it in the way that you think it;s required, my reason for this is 3 fold.
[01:20] <JaneW> 1) Your are doing the work
[01:20] <JaneW> 2) You are an educator and are closest to the type of traget audience we are looking at
[01:20] <JaneW> 3) We have limited time to get it done and out there
[01:21] <kjcole> jelkner 3. No grants, standard equipment, etc.
[01:21] <jelkner> 4) This is not the only book, only one of many
[01:21] <JaneW> we can always amend it again, if we decide it needs to change for Dapper +1 for whatever reason
[01:21] <jelkner> so if it fills some good need and we can get it done, we are ahead
[01:21] <JaneW> is there agreement of my sledgehammer non-democratc approach?
[01:21] <mhz> ;)
[01:22] <ogra> JaneW, yes
[01:22] <lucasvo1> JaneW: what is so non-democratic?
[01:22] <flint_> so the audience is teachers...
[01:22] <jelkner> ok, in that case, we have a plan that will involve much less work from the technical folks and much more opportuniy for community participation
[01:22] <mhz> imho, audience = any person in a school taking care of a lab
[01:22] <lucasvo1> I would say the audiense are teachers with a little aim to get to know something about the techniques used in school
[01:22] <JaneW> flint_: no the auduence is whoever is going to set the lab up, which is likely educators in a lot of cases
[01:22] <jelkner> we are going to have a real cookbook, complete with lots of recipies
[01:23] <mhz> (computing lab)
[01:23] <flint_> ok educator not teacher...
[01:23] <JaneW> lucasvo: I guess it wasn't that undemocratic, just manipulative ;)
[01:23] <jelkner> kevin and flint have taken a stab at an outline already
[01:23] <lucasvo1> I would say NO education
[01:23] <lucasvo1> why shouldn't one use it at home?
[01:23] <JaneW> mhz: agreed
[01:23] <jelkner> so if anyone wants to participate, we can invite them to submit a recipie
[01:24] <JaneW> jelkner: nice idea
[01:24] <mhz> wiki:EdubuntuRecipies :D
[01:24] <flint_> lucasvol, educator rather than education, 
[01:24] <lucasvo1> I would say: any person who is aimed to learn a at least llittlebit about techniques used and has a goal to set up a lab 
[01:24] <lucasvo1> flint_: yes exactly
[01:24] <jelkner> mhz: great
[01:24] <JaneW> jelkner: we can also have community contributed hints and tips and 'favourite recipes' etc ;)
[01:24] <mhz> oooh, that was a thought
[01:25] <jelkner> JaneW
[01:25] <jelkner> JaneW: yes!
[01:25] <kjcole> Before we decided to strip down the original, I tossed around an outline idea or three with flint (partially as a practical matter, partially to learn bzr)  Those are at: http://docbox.flint.com/~kjcole/outlines.html 
[01:25] <jelkner> ok, we will have an update in 2 weeks
[01:25] <jelkner> can we be early on the agenda for then?
[01:25] <JaneW> great, thanks guys :)
[01:25] <JaneW> sure
[01:25] <flint_>  "Who is the target audience for the cookbook?"
[01:25] <flint_> Two ways this question can be answered. The two ways are...
[01:25] <flint_> 1. "focus Elkner-san" apporoach ..this is a target rich environment.  pick one and nail it.
[01:25] <flint_> 2. "big tent many Clowns"  develop a framework and fill as fast as possible.
[01:25] <JaneW> next week ogra and I are at the distrosprint, and may not make the meeting...
[01:26] <JaneW> depends how full our schedule is there...
[01:26] <ogra> i'd like to make it, but leats see
[01:26] <mhz> JaneW: jelkner: and we could even have EdubuntuStudyContent (fr whatever LMS we package)
[01:26] <JaneW> if there is going to be NO meeting I'll let you know by the end of Tuesday.
[01:26] <jelkner> mhz: yes, but that will take longer
[01:27] <kjcole> flint_ Big KITCHEN, many COOKS (spoil the... never mind)
[01:27] <JaneW> thanks jelkner and kjcole 
[01:27] <jelkner> ok, i've got to go, thanks everyone!
[01:27] <mhz> jelkner: sure, but I am already listing some contents for a couple of 'pilot' training courses on Edubuntu for Teachers :D
[01:27] <JaneW> have a good day
[01:27] <jelkner> bye
[01:27] <flint_> later jeff...
[01:27] <lucasvo1> bye jelkner
[01:27] <ogra> ciao jelkner 
[01:27] <JaneW> I ma happy that jelkner and kjcole have swing votes wrt the cook book to ensure that it has direction
[01:27] <mhz> bye jelkner 
[01:28] <JaneW> ok, on the tech news
[01:28] <flint_> kjcole, I do like the cookbook motif...
[01:28] <JaneW> ogra: you been pulled into ubuntu work this week?
[01:28] <ogra> sure
[01:29] <ogra> we had UVF, so i had to finish merges etc
[01:29] <ogra> additionally i was 3 days at the eurolinux conference
[01:29] <ogra> so not much edubuntu development this week
[01:29] <JaneW> are all merges done now?
[01:29] <flint_> neat, how was eurolunux...
[01:29] <ogra> sure
[01:29] <JaneW> ok so where are we at?
[01:29] <JaneW> Edubuntu Flight 3 released
[01:29] <ogra> flint_, a bit diasappointing
[01:29] <JaneW> how's it looking?
[01:30] <flint_> ogra, sorry.
[01:30] <ogra> JaneW, yes, we are at flight 3
[01:30] <JaneW> and how much more ids there to do?
[01:30] <ogra> flight 4 will have gobby included 
[01:30] <JaneW> ogra: did you see silbs' response re the artwork?
[01:30] <JaneW> great, is there a date for flight 4 yet?
[01:30] <ogra> i only have to finish my goals, am waiting for a initramfs patch that infinity wants to make and a patch to gdm seb128 needs to review
[01:31] <ogra> i guess flight4 might be past the sprint
[01:31] <ogra> i doubt Kamion wants to do only CD work during the sprint
[01:34] <JaneW> ogra: no I expect it will be week after next
[01:34] <JaneW> when is the next freeze date?
[01:34] <ogra> one week after the sprint iirc
[01:34] <JaneW> Feb 23
[01:34] <kjcole> ogra: I forget: Is sobby mature enough to go along with gobby?
[01:34] <JaneW> Feature Freeze
[01:35] <JaneW> wtf is sobby?
[01:35] <ogra> kjcole, sobby is in universe :/
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra battled to get gobby in, pitti was initially not happy with it.
[01:35] <ogra> its not really matureds
[01:35] <kjcole> JaneW a stand-alone server for gobby
[01:35] <JaneW> kjcole: oic
[01:35] <ogra> JaneW, sobby is cool, but had only its first release ...
[01:36] <ogra> its a bit young yet
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: re artwork
[01:36] <ogra> yup
[01:36] <flint_> kjcole, you got sobby running eh?
[01:36] <mhz> ogra: will an LMS be included ready to use ?
[01:36] <JaneW> if we only get one set of prof work can we use that for the default install?
[01:36] <ogra> i would like to propose to go with mid age rather than young age as default
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: we will then need to use community work for other optional looks
[01:36] <ogra> but yes, we can ...
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: ok, does everyone agree with that?
[01:37] <kjcole> flint_ tried it out ONCE and it worked okay for the few minutes of testing...
[01:37] <JaneW> go for a default install aimed at 10-16 year olds
[01:37] <JaneW> instead of the younger crowd
[01:37] <JaneW> ?
[01:37] <mhz> JaneW: i do
[01:37] <ogra> kjcole, look at it with 20 ppl logged in ...
[01:37] <JaneW> the 3rd option will just be very plain, so shouldn;t take much
[01:37] <ogra> JaneW, yup
[01:37] <flint_> JaneW, the skin of this has always been your call.
[01:38] <ogra> i'd like to be able to use something from the community for the young ones ... 
[01:38] <kjcole> ogra: +1 re: mid-range
[01:38] <ogra> having a bit freedom there would be nicer
[01:38] <flint_> ogra, what about a menu choice of skin in flight 4?
[01:38] <JaneW> flint_: not really, in the first release I was applying the decisions from the summit, with a good dose of personal preference admittedly ;)
[01:38] <JaneW> ok then we need to doc this change
[01:38] <ogra> flint_, already there through dpkg-reconfigure
[01:39] <JaneW> we have it published that the default is the younger skin
[01:39] <ogra> flint_, i'm just missing skins :)
[01:39] <flint_> JaneW, If you do not continue to lead the art aspect, we will have nothing to annoy you about... :^)
[01:39] <ogra> so all you select looks the same
[01:39] <JaneW> :P
[01:39] <JaneW> ogra: so the splash screens will all be the same right>
[01:39] <JaneW> ?
[01:39] <mhz> JaneW: so, default = 10 -> 16 y.o ?
[01:39] <JaneW> just wall papper and fonts and icons will vary?
[01:40] <JaneW> mhz: it seems so yes.
[01:40] <ogra> JaneW, we can still decide that later in case we get some community contributions
[01:40] <ogra> artwork freeze is far in the future
[01:40] <JaneW> ogra: will management agree? I don;t want a ton of bricks dropped on me again ;)
[01:40] <ogra> (UI freeze)
[01:40] <JaneW> ogra: I will need to rally for them
[01:40] <ogra> we have still time to discuss that 
[01:41] <mhz> JaneW: and slib willprovide what?
[01:41] <ogra> i'll answer the artwork thread today
[01:41] <JaneW> silbs will proved one set of art work, not 3
[01:41] <mhz> ooops, rephrase, and what would slib provide then?
[01:41] <JaneW> so it;s up to us to arrnage the rest
[01:41] <ogra> the default artwork
[01:41] <JaneW> and the prof work will be used for the default install
[01:41] <kjcole> (I think I can speak for jelkner as a +1 on artwork scaled to an older audience as well. Not that as a high school teacher he has a bias or anything... ;-))
[01:41] <mhz> yeah but wich age? or you mean 10 to 16 year olds
[01:41] <mhz> ?
[01:42] <flint_> JaneW, since when are you so worried about management?  ticking off mdz is a shared pleasure.
[01:42] <JaneW> flint_: yeah but I
[01:42] <JaneW> 'll be seeing him next week, so I'm scared ;)
[01:42] <ogra> flint_, but you never gain what you want ...
[01:43] <ogra> flint_, so its just a waste of energy :)
[01:43] <ogra> (ticking off mdz i mean)
[01:43] <flint_> ogra, na, you need to take this in a life-context, all I really enjoy is making matt think!
[01:43] <ogra> flint_, at 4am in the morning ?
[01:44] <flint_> ogra, 04:30 and he was awake...
[01:44] <ogra> i woulddnt expect anyone to *think* at this time 
[01:44] <flint_> you do not know matt.  he was using that as a pretext.
[01:44] <JaneW> ok what else is on the agenda?
[01:44] <mhz> JaneW: so, slib will provide 10 -16 ?
[01:45] <flint_> anyway, the art thing is a good idea.
[01:45] <JaneW> mhz: I need to follow up with her again
[01:45] <ogra> me too
[01:45] <mhz> ooh, okis
[01:45] <JaneW> mhz: I previously communicated that 6-10 would be the default install
[01:45] <mhz> hehehe
[01:45] <ogra> i'm still lagging behind with mail 
[01:45] <flint_> JaneW, who or what is slib?
[01:45] <JaneW> mhz: we decided to change that today
[01:45] <JaneW> mhz: so we need to document and communicate that.
[01:45] <ogra> i think we grew up a bit and the artwork should reflect that :)
[01:46] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[01:46] <JaneW> ogra: and gartoon?
[01:46] <ogra> for 0-6 
[01:46] <JaneW> ogra: the rest of the look and feel?
[01:46] <mhz> ogra: i totally agree
[01:46] <ogra> a community wallpaper for 0-6 is easy to grab from a.u.c
[01:46] <ogra> i'm uncertain about 10-X
[01:47] <JaneW> ok, I'll mail the powers that be, I'd like to see the font and icon choices etc to see the new look
[01:47] <mhz> JaneW: ogra: my art boys have not given priority to edubunut artwork because they noticed default won't be ours, so they want on vacation until nextweek ,afaik :(
[01:47] <ogra> i think font is up to us ... and for the older ages we should just go with the default icons ...
[01:48] <JaneW> mhz: :( understandable...
[01:48] <mhz> JaneW: understandable but I dont like it
[01:48] <JaneW> ppl like the current font and icons in my experience btw...
[01:49] <ogra> so lets probably keep the icons and font for 6-10 as well
[01:49] <mhz> JaneW: however, I had done some little stuff for a grown-up dark theme ;) (so at least, wallpaper and GTK theme is ready)
[01:49] <ogra> and just change the wallpaper between these two ...
[01:49] <ogra> but that still leaves open 10-X 
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: I suspect we'll have to have a couple of options and display them to management, and let them make the final call.
[01:50] <flint_> ogra, I personally fee that an X rates theme will have little classroom use :^)
[01:50] <ogra> flint_, come on, thats for the grown ups :)
[01:51] <flint_> ogra, here is where you may have issue with management.  
[01:51] <ogra> JaneW, fine with me
[01:51] <ogra> flint_, naah, we have so beatiful nekkid peoplle pics we could use
[01:52] <ogra> ;)
[01:52] <flint_> seriously, stick to your guns and make management put resources into the mechanisim of this product.  do not work so hard on the show-y outside as an issue.
[01:52] <mhz> JaneW: ogra: just let me know if the 'options-to-show' are needed and I will move the earth to get it done very quickly
[01:53] <ogra> flint_, in any case the screenshots are what people look at
[01:53] <flint_> ogra, I know, it is just not what I see...
[01:55] <JaneW> mhz: options-to-show?
[01:55] <ogra> JaneW, community artwork for inclusion
[01:56] <mhz> JaneW: I thought you wanted to discuss this with management 
[01:56] <mhz> and if needed community artwork, I could surely put some nice pressure on it
[01:56] <flint_> mhz, one of my favorite reasons for calling folks at odd hours is that "management" should be here or it should be us!
[01:57] <mhz> hehehe, :)
[01:57] <JaneW> we still have http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/ for community art work submissions
[01:57] <JaneW> please use it
[01:57] <mhz> in case someone needs daaarrrkk GTK -> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/EdubuntuRelatedPhotos
[01:58] <flint_> this "management" issue is the major strutural flaw in edubuntu, and someone should communicate it eh Jane?
[01:58] <JaneW> mhz: I am pretty sure we will need community work, we have been told we only get one set of prof work, and I repleid saying we'd need to use community stuff for the rest
[01:58] <JaneW> I am assuming 'silence gives consent'
[01:58] <mhz> JaneW: lol! I love your idea
[01:58] <ogra> flint_, management issue ? 
[01:59] <JaneW> mhz: wow - why so dark?
[01:59] <JaneW> mhz: could be good for the plain one that was requested
[01:59] <mhz> JaneW: because I have intolerance to light
[01:59] <JaneW> mhz: more terminal like and less distracting
[01:59] <JaneW> mhz: oic
[01:59] <mhz> and because I love terminal looks :D
[01:59] <flint_> ogra, later.
[02:00] <JaneW> ok our time is up
[02:00] <JaneW> are we done?
[02:00] <mhz> JaneW: I was making a greyish one (kind of metalic g4 powerbook) but ended up with black :P
[02:00] <JaneW> so do we have no voluntary scribe?
[02:00] <JaneW> mhz: grey could be nice
[02:00] <mhz> scribe?
[02:00] <JaneW> mhz: minute taker
[02:01] <JaneW> mhz: person to document the meeting decisions and actions
[02:01] <mhz> JaneW: yeah, the idea was grey-water-metallic
[02:01] <mhz> JaneW: how soon do you need the minutes of the meetings?
[02:01] <JaneW> mhz: asap, but really we just need them done
[02:01] <flint_> mhz,  interesting stuff Mauricio, I gotta stick with the janester here, can you turn it up to say, grey?
[02:02] <JaneW> I was doing them after the meeting each week, but I just never get around to doing them anymore
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: ideally within a day of the meeting
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: in point form would be fine
[02:02] <mhz> JaneW: if it is ok, I can have them done as soon as I finish my 3 letters and provide breakfast to family (total 4 hours)
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: perfect!
[02:02] <ogra_> grumble
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: you really are a star
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: then we'll have those minutes today before 5 hours
[02:03] <ogra> mhz, btw, its caller 6.04, not 6.4
[02:03] <flint_> JaneW, this thing with Mauricio is a good thing.
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: not a star, just a guy still wanting to try out your cakes :D
[02:03] <ogra> *called
[02:03] <mhz> ogra: duh! yeah! food point
[02:03] <mhz> good
[02:03] <ogra> :)
[02:04] <mhz> flint_: grey, sure! that was gonna be it until I thought people would not use such a plain dark thing :)
[02:04] <kjcole> (mhz, freudian slip "food point" with all that talk about breakfast and cakes.) 
[02:05] <mhz> yup, lol!
[02:05] <flint_> mhz, did you get an account on the docbox
[02:05] <mhz> well, I have to run to provide breakfast before you get evening news saying "young very handsome chubby chilean died this morning..."
[02:06] <mhz> flint_: dont remember.. I have been very bussy trying to get sponsors for Ubuntu Tour in LA
[02:06] <mhz_food> I'll keep this open for 'minutes' purposes
[02:07] <mhz_food> See ya all later, alegators!
[02:07] <kjcole> I plan to write up something of a "best practices" for bzr (as gleaned from talks with ogra, jblack and lifeless) and put them in both the wiki and docbox. 
[02:07] <flint_> kjcole, I think we will serve mhz up on the server eh?
[02:07] <flint_> as they say at Gallaudet, as Kevin has taught me, breakfast awaits stop keying, stop keying := sksk
[02:07] <JaneW> mhz_food: hehehe
[02:07] <flint_> bye all sksk
[02:08] <kjcole> later flint sksk
[02:08] <ogra> kjcole, according to a mail from sabdfl we'll have the supermirror soon
[02:08] <kjcole> ogra, yeah I saw that e-mail and sent it to flint and a few others.
[02:08] <ogra> great
[02:09] <kjcole> ogra, but what I meant was the ideas of people should expect someone central to pull / merge, rather than each of them trying to push to the central repository.
[02:10] <kjcole> Time for me to run... as usual.  Ta-ta.
[02:12] <lucasvo> ogra: what means "soon"?
[02:12] <lucasvo> :p
[02:12] <lucasvo> when will the supermirror be available?
[02:13] <ogra> no idea, the code snippets are there
[02:13] <lucasvo> so it will be integrated into launchpad?
[02:13] <ogra> but the launcpad team is busy with changing the build environment from buildds to launchpad ..
[02:13] <ogra> it will be the core of launchpad, yes
[02:14] <lucasvo> ok