[12:02] <minghua> it would be interesting to have two Chinese l10n guy applying for membership the same day though
[12:03] <Kyral> lol
[12:04] <minghua> (especially that said two people are NOT working together)
[12:04] <Kyral> lol
[12:05] <ogra> why in  a couple of months  ?
[12:05] <Kyral> You really think I can get MOTU right now?
[12:06] <Kyral> I only have 2 packages
[12:07] <minghua> If it's up to me, I would like to give MOTU membership to people who probably lack skills but willing to learn/discuss/cooperate
[12:07] <Kyral> like me lol
[12:07] <minghua> the latter seems more important to me
[12:09] <ajmitch_> since the only difference between member & MOTU is upload rights, I would prefer that people have proven skills first
[12:09] <Kyral> yah..and mine aren't proven lol
[12:09] <Kyral> Granted they are MUCH better then they were when I started
[12:09] <minghua> ajmitch_: hmm, you are probably right
[12:10] <derekS> where can i make a backports request?
[12:10] <minghua> ajmitch_: maybe I should reconsider, I didn't really think carefully
[12:10] <Kyral> derekS: Backports Forum on UbuntuForums
[12:10] <derekS> hmm, its down
[12:10] <minghua> derekS: there is also a mailing list
[12:11] <minghua> derekS: although I was told the requests should go to forums, but since it's down....
[12:11] <derekS> ok
[12:12] <derekS> no one takes requests personally?
[12:12] <derekS> :)
[12:12] <Kyral> no
[12:12] <derekS> ok
[12:12] <\sh> derekS: mez or jdong
[12:13] <\sh> when they are online...I think mez is a good guy to ask directly
[12:13] <derekS> \sh: thanks
[12:13] <derekS> Mez: ping?
[12:13] <derekS> *s
[12:14] <derekS> \sh: while i have you here, are there any good console jabber clients?
[12:14] <\sh> derekS: well...if I need a console client, I would use centericq-utf8
[12:15] <derekS> \sh: i am looking for something to keep running in the background 24/7
[12:15] <\sh> derekS: yes :) centericq-utf8 ... it's a console multi-im client...and jabber works perfektly :)
[12:16] <derekS> \sh: how does aim work on it?
[12:16] <derekS> \sh: i am looking for something to keep running in the background 24/7
[12:16] <derekS> blah sorry about that
[12:16] <derekS> wrong window
[12:16] <\sh> derekS: should work properly
[12:16] <\sh> derekS: I don't use it for other things as jabber :)
[12:17] <derekS> \sh: :)
[12:31] <LaserJock> way to go all new Ubuntu Members!!
[12:31] <azeem> \o/
[12:32] <ogra> :)
[12:34] <minghua> :-)
[12:34] <LaserJock> like it was even needed ;-)
[12:44] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek
[12:46] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock
[12:48] <\sh> hmmm...now I could need help from slomo
[12:49] <Riddell> where's the motu requests wiki page again?
[12:49] <\sh> last try with vlc for today...this firefox thingie drives me mad
[12:49] <\sh> UniverseCandidates?
[12:50] <Riddell> ah yes
[12:50] <Riddell> man, that's a big page
[12:51] <ogra> yes, we were aiming for a better system for breezy already
[12:51] <\sh> we would like to switch to launchpad or an RT based system
[12:52] <Riddell> just add a launchpad team and assign bugs to it?
[12:52] <ogra> we have the MOTU team
[12:52] <ogra> there team assigning would actually make some sense ...
[12:52] <minghua> freeflying_: I am going home now, if you come back, wait for a while, I should be online in 20 minutes
[12:53] <minghua> see you guys later
[12:53] <\sh> or we just wait until it hits debian
[01:00] <ajmitch> hm, >500MB to dist-upgrade
[01:00] <ajmitch> been a lot of changes lately
[01:00] <chillywilly> bah
[01:01] <chillywilly> I cannot log into my ubuntu server after I ripped some ldap packages out..so I rebooted witha  live CD and fixed up nsswitch.conf but still no dice...anyone have any ideas? :)
[01:03] <chillywilly> even form the terminal it says login incorrect after waiting a few secs
[01:03] <\sh> chillywilly: check /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow if your user is in it...
[01:10] <slomo> \sh: why?
[01:10] <\sh> slomo: vlc and matroska doesn't work
[01:10] <\sh> I tried to recompile
[01:10] <\sh> but this doesn't help either
[01:10] <\sh> VLC media player 0.8.4 Janus
[01:10] <\sh> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x085e2300 ***
[01:10] <\sh> Aborted
[01:11] <slomo> \sh: uh... nice... amd64?
[01:11] <\sh> (that's the recompiled version)
[01:11] <\sh> slomo: i386
[01:11] <slomo> ok...
[01:11] <slomo> try gdb :)
[01:13] <\sh> slomo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7591
[01:14] <\sh> looks like libebml or libmatroska
[01:14] <\sh> and I don't understand why only the -dev packages are in our archives
[01:14] <slomo> maybe a static-only library?
[01:15] <\sh> yes
[01:15] <slomo> i hate such libs...
[01:15] <slomo> and it should be libebml... hmm, maybe a new version was released or something was fixed in cvs for it...
[01:16] <\sh> I mean, there can be several possibilities why it doesn't work
[01:16] <\sh> 1. matroska is broken
[01:16] <\sh> 2. vlc is broken
[01:16] <\sh> 3. gcc-snapshot is the issue
[01:16] <\sh> gcc-snapshot build-dep was introduced in 20 sep 2005
[01:17] <slomo> yes... hm, maybe try to build it with gcc 4.0?
[01:17] <\sh> slomo: well...I have to go to bed now :) need to be at 8 in the new office
[01:17] <slomo> no idea... but i need to go to bed now... only 5 hours of sleep left :(
[01:17] <slomo> new office? where? :)
[01:17] <\sh> slomo: but if you have to time and the nerves...give it a go :)
[01:18] <\sh> slomo: cologne...doing some freelancing work :)
[01:18] <\sh> slomo: please watch tomorrow mtv and viva and check for something from mobilelabs/contenthouse :)
[01:18] <slomo> hmm, ringtones?
[01:18] <azeem> are they doing dialtones?
[01:19] <azeem> haha
[01:19] <\sh> slomo: better
[01:19] <\sh> slomo: IM via mobile
[01:19] <slomo> games?
[01:19] <\sh> and some mailbox style java apps (dynamic content) only via IP over grps...
[01:20] <\sh> well...actually you can think of me then, because now you know who is taking care about the quad xeon machines :)
[01:20] <\sh> and all the application servers :)
[01:20] <slomo> sounds interesting... and more useful than ringtones or games =)
[01:20] <slomo> anyway... bed... good night everybody :)
[01:21] <\sh> slomo: I'll try tomorrow then to compile vlc with our plain toolchain compiler suite
[01:22] <chillywilly> blah...
[01:22] <minghua> hello, I am back :-)
[01:22] <minghua> freeflying_: there?
[01:24] <\sh> ok..off to bed...cu
[01:24] <ajmitch> night \sh
[01:24] <minghua> good night \sh
[01:24] <minghua> talking to \sh is hard for me...  the \ key is on different positions of my two keyboards :-(
[01:25] <Riddell> minghua: chinese don't use MS-DOS lots? :)
[01:25] <ajmitch> time for me to walk back to LCA :)
[01:26] <tseng> i think MS-DOS was probably before i18n
[01:26] <Riddell> ajmitch: say hi to aaron and lathiat for me
[01:26] <minghua> Riddell: they used to, but not anymore
[01:26] <Riddell> ajmitch: make sure they're handing out Kubuntu CDs
[01:26] <minghua> Riddell: Hmm, I see your point, but I didn't use MSDOS much
[01:27] <minghua> and I never was good at typing the long path anyway...  linux rules with / :-)
[01:27] <freeflying_> minghua: hi
[01:27] <minghua> tseng: believe it or not, MSDOS probably had better Chinese i18n than Mac OS X now :-)
[01:28] <tseng> seeing as there are way less strings
[01:28] <tseng> i believe you
[01:28] <minghua> freeflying_: if you prefer Chinese, we can go to another channel or use private talk
[01:28] <freeflying_> minghua: ubuntu-zh
[01:30] <chillywilly> pam hates me
[01:30] <crimsun> minghua: sorry about -meeting; had a conference call
[01:31] <minghua> on the other hand, though, the Chinese i18n in MSDOS was the root of all troubles the linux i18n are dealing with today
[01:31] <minghua> crimsun: no problem at all, you support is still very appreciated :-)
[01:39] <crimsun> StevenK: was the update for quodlibet 0.17-1ubuntu1 intentional since 0.17.1-2 is in Sid?
[01:46] <chillywilly> bah, pam was configured to load pam_ldap.so and I had ripped it out already so that's what was causing all my fun ;P
[01:46] <chillywilly> time to go home now
[02:27] <Kyral> hmm
[02:28] <Kyral> what is this "Support Request" thing on Launchpad
[02:30] <LaserJock> umm, to request support ;-)
[02:31] <ogra> we thought about using them as universe candidates replacement ...
[02:31] <ogra> but you cant assign them to a group ...
[02:32] <minghua> last time I heard about it, it was with "you may try following that link, but I have no idea if it works at all" :-)
[02:32] <LaserJock> ogra: could we get that feature added?
[02:32] <ogra> LaserJock, probably
[02:32] <raphink> Riddell: are you around?
[02:33] <Kyral> hey LJ
[02:33] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[02:34] <Kyral> you gonna confirm or close this bug?
[02:34] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.6/+bug/3194
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3194: "No non-unicode wxWidgets 2.6" Fix req. for: wxwidgets2.6 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Unconfirmed
[02:34] <LaserJock> well, I was thinking of giving them time to come up with a real bug ;-)
[02:34] <Kyral> lol
[02:34] <Kyral> Okay just askin'
[02:34] <LaserJock> Kyral: btw, my wife loves the puppy picture
[02:34] <Kyral> I'm bored and am running through the untriaged bugs
[02:35] <Kyral> LaserJock: lol
[02:36] <LaserJock> Kyral: if you find Science ones let me know. we really need to get a handle on those
[02:37] <Kyral> I'll make a quick run through the UnAssigned
[02:38] <Kyral> okay..I'm gonna confirm and wishlist this one
[02:38] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/3640
[02:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3640: "After installed, NTFS not readable and FAT read-only" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[02:38] <Kyral> Anyone object to that?
[02:39] <Kyral> I'm thinking I should assign it to someplace but I don't know where lol
[02:41] <Kyral> Someone can change the bug report if they want
[02:44] <Kyral> like 5248
[02:44] <Kyral> ..Malone 5248
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5248: "People should now that next reboot is going to last a lot." Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5248
[02:45] <minghua> nice bug, I would say :-)
[02:45] <Kyral> Yah
[02:45] <Kyral> Confirm, WISHLIST
[02:45] <Kyral> You wanna see a bad bug report?
[02:46] <Kyral> Malone 5729
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5729: "cant acces cd-rom drive or floppy" Fix req. for: ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5729
[02:46] <minghua> no, it's definitely not going to apply for dapper anymore
[02:46] <minghua> so confirmed is probably not a good status
[02:47] <Kyral> Wishlist?
[02:47] <minghua> Yikes, that's a bad bug indeed
[02:48] <Kyral> yah
[02:48] <LaserJock> reject them all!, haha j/k
[02:49] <Kyral> hey LJ you want me to assign Malone 5950 to MOTU Science
[02:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/5950
[02:50] <LaserJock> Kyral: yes
[02:50] <Kyral> damn you its mine!
[02:51] <minghua> sounds like our MOTUScience's stuff
[02:51] <LaserJock> We need to be somewhat cautious about assigning stuff to MOTUScience since we only have 1 MOTU right now.
[02:51] <minghua> Kyral: Err... sorry.  will give one back to you in the future :-)
[02:51] <LaserJock> so if it is something we are willing to do then fine, assign it to us
[02:51] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6169
[02:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6169: "Winmodem installation" Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[02:52] <bddebian> Hey, we buggin'? :)
[02:52] <LaserJock> but also subscribe ubuntu-bugs so that the rest of the MOTU know what's going on
[02:52] <Kyral> I am :P
[02:52] <minghua> Hmm, maybe we should just subscribe motu-science to it instead of assigning
[02:52] <Kyral> too late
[02:52] <minghua> LaserJock: you mean universe-bugs, don't you?
[02:53] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah
[02:54] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-xconfig/+bug/6600
[02:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6600: "This package conflicts with nvidia-glx" Fix req. for: nvidia-xconfig (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[02:54] <Kyral> Rejected :P
[02:54] <minghua> #5950 seems easy enough and I think we can fix that, no problem assigning to us
[02:54] <Kyral> I just AptSh on both and neither confirmed that
[02:55] <LaserJock> minghua: well we could just subscribe but I think it is probably good to assign some too so that people see that we a contact for science related apps. Either way, I think for now it is best to make sure both MOTU Science and universe-bugs are getting the reports
[02:55] <minghua> we have a package named dog?
[02:56] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah, image building :-)
[02:56] <ogra> minghua, yes, its similar to cat, but doesnt meow
[02:57] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, to some degree. It's good to do a little PR work now and then ;-)
[02:57] <minghua> Err, you can add someone to bug subscription but not getting him off?
[02:58] <minghua> on the other side, ubuntu-bugs seems to subscribe every bug, so I'll just subscribe universe-bugs for #5950 then
[02:59] <Kyral> Guys
[02:59] <Kyral> I already assigned it to MOTU Science "{
[02:59] <LaserJock> Kyral: did you also subscribe universe-bugs?
[02:59] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/systeminstaller/+bug/28626 <---Explain and Reject :P
[02:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28626: "install k7 kernel on an athlon" Fix req. for: systeminstaller (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[02:59] <Kyral> LaserJock: no :(
[02:59] <minghua> LaserJock: no, but I've just done that
[03:01] <LaserJock> ok, all I'm saying is, for now we should make sure the bug reports go to both ubuntu-science and universe-bugs because if we assign all the science related bugs to us now I think we might be overwhelmed while the rest of the MOTU won't know what's going on
[03:01] <Kyral> Anyone agree that its okay to Reject that bug?
[03:02] <minghua> we can always reassign the bugs we can't deal with back to universe-bugs once in a while ;-)
[03:02] <Kyral> anyone?
[03:02] <minghua> Kyral: that's a perfectly valid bug in my opinion
[03:02] <Kyral> minghua: but its been addressed MANY times
[03:03] <Kyral> There is not enough space on the Install CD
[03:03] <minghua> is there another bug?  make it a duplicate then
[03:03] <Kyral> no
[03:03] <Kyral> but I have answered it MANY times :P
[03:03] <LaserJock> that isn't grounds to reject it
[03:03] <Kyral> and AFIAK it isn't gonna change
[03:04] <minghua> that's why you need to keep a bug, explains there, and refer other people to it every other time :-)
[03:04] <bddebian> Man, I am sooo far behing :'-(
[03:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, you'll catch up :-)
[03:04] <Kyral> fine fine
[03:04] <Kyral> I
[03:04] <Kyral> will confirm and wishlist
[03:04] <Kyral> happy?
[03:04] <bddebian> LaserJock: I dunno, I'm looking at the buglist.. Sheesh
[03:05] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, we move from bugzilla to malone so I think that contributes
[03:06] <bddebian> Yeah, I noticed.  How do I look at the universe bugs nowadays? :-)
[03:07] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/systeminstaller/+bug/28626
[03:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28626: "install k7 kernel on an athlon" Fix req. for: systeminstaller (Ubuntu), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Confirmed
[03:07] <Kyral> anyone have a problem with my handling?
[03:07] <bddebian> Yeah it sucks
[03:07] <minghua> bddebian: good question, let's see...
[03:07] <LaserJock> bddebian: I actually don't know. You can get the list of MOTU assigned ones but that's it
[03:07] <bddebian> Kyral: :-)
[03:08] <Kyral> bddebian: ain't it you who told me I would get my MOTU License by the end of Dapper?
[03:08] <minghua> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs looks like a good start
[03:08] <bddebian> #3123.  Didn't we kill python2.3 in Breezy?
[03:08] <bddebian> Kyral: Probably :-)
[03:08] <minghua> yeah, this is what LaserJock was referring
[03:09] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/28629 <--_Okay can I reject this one?
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28629: "too many updates" Fix req. for: update-manager (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed
[03:10] <LaserJock> I think we really need to get the xml-rpc going in LP so that we can query Malone fore universe bugs
[03:10] <bddebian> Kyral: re 28629.  Probably
[03:10] <bddebian> Gawd I feel more stupid than ever
[03:11] <Kyral> Yea! BOFH!
[03:11] <Kyral> I mean
[03:11] <Kyral> who the HECK files a bug because he has too many updates?
[03:11] <Kyral> He wants too many updates he should use Dapper!
[03:13] <LaserJock> there aren't that many for breezy. I think most people would apprecitate having security fixes
[03:13] <Kyral> eh I'll give it another week
[03:13] <Kyral> yah so REJECT?
[03:14] <bddebian> doko: Around?
[03:15] <Kyral> oh wait
[03:15] <Kyral> mike vogt is subscribed...
[03:15] <Kyral> this might be important lol
[03:15] <Kyral> confirm and wishlist?
[03:17] <Kyral> Man I'm wishlisting a lot
[03:19] <bddebian> Have the merge pages moved?
[03:19] <bddebian> Why is #15910 still open?
[03:25] <LaserJock> MOTUScience: if you look towards the bottom of http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html at the "Outdated in Ubuntu" section we will be able to see what packages we can merge/sync
[03:26] <LaserJock> It look like we can do most of them
[03:26] <LaserJock> looks
[03:29] <bddebian> LaserJock: Are these not on the merge list?
[03:29] <LaserJock> no
[03:29] <LaserJock> because of UVF there are no more automatic merges/syncs
[03:30] <bddebian> That wasn't my question :-)
[03:31] <LaserJock> so can you elaborate?
[03:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: what merge list are you talking about?
[03:33] <bddebian> The normal MoM stuff
[03:34] <LaserJock> well, the ones I'm talking about aren't because MoM isn't running anymore.
[03:34] <bddebian> LaserJock: I realize that.  What I'm asking is if they were on the list originally :-)
[03:35] <LaserJock> maybe, basically I assume they are updates that Debian did after MoM stopped running
[03:36] <LaserJock> that is why they are mostly just small changes that we should be able to merge/sync.
[03:37] <bddebian> LaserJock: You do know that MoM doesn't merge packages automatically right?  There is user/MOTU intervention required.
[03:37] <LaserJock> yes
[03:37] <LaserJock> but the revu.tauware.de list uses the MoM output to make the merge list
[03:38] <LaserJock> so the list hasn't been updated since the 12th
[03:38] <bddebian> Ahhh, gotcha, sorry
[03:39] <LaserJock> np
[03:39] <LaserJock> so now that UVF is here we can still get an idea of what packages we can merge/sync
[03:40] <bddebian> Aye
[03:40] <bddebian> ANyone in here know where the xml files mime types go?  I can't remember shit :-(
[03:43] <minghua> good night
[03:43] <bddebian> Gnight minghua
[03:43] <LaserJock> cya minghua
[03:54] <bddebian> Did I scare everyone away again??
[03:55] <Kyral> what is the command to see what libs are being called when a program runs?
[03:56] <bddebian> gdb? ;-P
[03:56] <Kyral> I thought it was like objdump or something
[03:56] <bddebian> You can do objdump -t to see what a particular lib provides, eys
[03:56] <bddebian> Err yes even
[03:59] <LaserJock> bddebian: you didn't scare me away but I'm afraid I'm too dumb to help you
[04:00] <bddebian> LaserJock: D00d, does it look like I'm asking intelligent questions?? :-)  I feel like I have forgotten EVERYTHING :'-(
[04:06] <LaserJock> bddebian: let me put it this way, even if you have forgotten 90% of what you knew I bet you would still know more than me
[04:09] <bddebian> I HIGHLY doubt that
[04:09] <bddebian> ask ajmitch :)
[04:13] <bddebian> We can't close bugs anymore?
[04:14] <LaserJock> no?
[04:14] <LaserJock> "fix released"
[04:16] <bddebian> I set it to FixCommitted but does that close it?
[04:16] <LaserJock> yes
[04:16] <LaserJock> at least I'm pretty sure it does
[04:16] <LaserJock> oh, wait. no "Fix Released" closes it
[04:19] <bddebian> Hmm, OK
[04:19] <bddebian> Hmm, my karma dropped to 230.. WTF? :'-(
[04:21] <LaserJock> yeah, they take Karma away for MIA :(
[04:21] <bddebian> *sniff, sniff*
[04:21] <LaserJock> Mine droped after I hadn't done any merges for a while
[04:21] <LaserJock> on the other hand, check out \sh and ajmitch's karma :-/
[04:22] <bddebian> I don't even want to look :-)
[04:23] <LaserJock> \sh is >3300
[04:23] <bddebian> I heard :-)
[04:23] <bddebian> Hmm, I don't even have the ubuntumembers emblem?  WTF? :'-(
[04:23] <LaserJock> poor bddebian, I feel sorry for ya man
[04:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: mine is low
[04:24] <LaserJock> ajmitch: still a lot better than mine
[04:24] <ajmitch> mine will never be high
[04:24] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[04:24] <bddebian> ajmitch: I'm feeling unloved again :-)
[04:25] <bddebian> :-)
[04:25] <LaserJock> I've been hanging around dholbach too much ;-)
[04:25] <ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry, you only feel unloved
[04:26] <bddebian> ajmitch: Did you ever get a laptop?
[04:26] <bddebian> ajmitch: You have NEVER loved me.. ;-P
[04:27] <ajmitch> bddebian: I've got a laptop here
[04:27] <ajmitch> Kyral: calm down
[04:27] <zakame> hello all :D
[04:27] <Kyral> I think the steam went to my head
[04:28] <ajmitch> or at least something did
[04:28] <Kyral> I feel all lovey
[04:28] <Kyral> lol
[04:28] <ajmitch> feel lovey elsewhere :P
[04:28] <Kyral> better then feeling all BOFHish :P
[04:28] <zakame> hehe
[04:29] <bddebian> Hello zakame
[04:29] <zakame> heya bddebian :)
[04:29] <Kyral> Would you rather get a hug or get told to "STFU RTFM"
[04:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh
[04:29] <bddebian> So what are we doing with breezy bugs I can't reproduce in dapper?
[04:30] <bddebian> WTF launchpad is offline???
[04:30] <ajmitch> RTFS :)
[04:30] <bddebian> I'm on a roll here damnit
[04:30] <bddebian> RTFS on what?
[04:30] <Kyral> RTFS = Read the Fuckin' Source?
[04:30] <bddebian> RTSL
[04:31] <Kyral> RTSL?
[04:31] <bddebian> Or is it UTSL?
[04:31] <bddebian> Use The Source Luke
[04:31] <Kyral> lol
[04:31] <Kyral> I was about to say that
[04:31] <Kyral> lol
[04:32] <LaserJock> lol, "I see this one is strong with the Source"
[04:32] <Kyral> And MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU!
[04:32] <bddebian> Hmm, how long is LaunchPad gonna be down? :-(
[04:32] <zakame> w00t
[04:32] <bddebian> I gotta catch ajmitch's karma or I'll never hear the end of it.. ;-P
[04:32] <Kyral> lol
[04:33] <Kyral> bddebian: did you knock out LP?
[04:33] <Kyral> BAD!
[04:33] <bddebian> heh
[04:33] <bddebian> And why the hell is -devel so quiet?
[04:34] <Burgundavia> bddebian, it is 3/4am in Europe
[04:34] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe they're on vacation and nobody told us
[04:37] <bddebian> Burgundavia: Europe schmurope :-)
[04:37] <spstarr_home> hrm shouldn't we rename murasaki? Tt seems to be rather raw right now, since hotplug appears broke right now. (perhaps rename it BACK to hotplug since it makes more sense?)
[04:37] <bddebian> Why is #2246 still open?
[04:37] <spstarr_home> s/Tt/It
[04:38] <Burgundavia> spstarr_home, why is it even in the repos? Ubuntu has never shipped a 2.4 kernel
[04:39] <spstarr_home> its present if I try to use hotplug in dapper, im wondering the same
[04:39] <Kyral> Why would you use hotplug?
[04:39] <Burgundavia> spstarr_home, hotplug has been replaced with udev in dapper
[04:39] <spstarr_home> apparently, hotplug is is broken in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EarlyUserspace
[04:39] <Kyral> Its been integrated into udev
[04:39] <spstarr_home> yeah but udev doesn't seem to be doing what its supposed to be w/ netlink
[04:39] <Burgundavia> spstarr_home, you filed a bug?
[04:40] <spstarr_home> not yet, im still looking into it
[04:40] <spstarr_home> udevinfo is 0.79
[04:41] <spstarr_home> but I do see murasaki
[04:41] <spstarr_home> p   murasaki                        - another HotPlug Agent
[04:41] <spstarr_home> let me check my pkg list to confirm
[04:42] <bddebian> #3387 looks like an easy fix.  Is it worth it?
[04:43] <spstarr_home> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/murasaki/
[04:43] <StevenK> crimsun: Yes, quodlibet 0.17-1 failed to build, so I fixed the build problem.
[04:43] <spstarr_home> yes, we do have it in ubuntu
[04:43] <spstarr_home> but it supports 2.5/2.6 apparently
[04:46] <StevenK> crimsun: My feeling was that a merge from Debian just fix a trivial build problem wasn't worth it.
[04:47] <ajmitch> hi StevenK
[04:49] <bddebian> ajmitch: You aren't keeping up here d00d :-)
[04:52] <spstarr_home> oh udevd moved the firmware location
[04:53] <spstarr_home> ho-hum :)
[04:54] <spstarr_home> oh, now it works
[04:55] <spstarr_home> no bug to file, /lib/firmware != /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware anymore
[05:46] <crimsun> StevenK: fair enough, though I was thinking about the updated translations
[05:47] <StevenK> crimsun: I was being cautios.
[05:48] <crimsun> StevenK: I figured you were :-)
[05:52] <bddebian> Heya crimsun
[05:53] <bddebian> crimsun: Hey, do I need to make a dpatch for a two line code change just to fix missing {} in an else?
[05:55] <crimsun> bddebian: generally, no, unless the Debian package uses dpatch
[05:55] <crimsun> bddebian: (hi :-)
[05:56] <crimsun> my opinion is that the fix is so trivial that it doesn't warrant the bloat that a dpatch would have
[05:59] <bddebian> Well it does have dpatch already but for this fix it seems like bloat as you say
[06:00] <crimsun> I'd skip dpatchifying it and send the diff as an attachment to a wishlist bug
[06:04] <bddebian> It's a malone bug already and the submitter sent it upstream already :-)
[06:04] <bddebian> Anyway, bedtime.  Thanks, crimsun
[06:05] <crimsun> bddebian: np, 'night
[06:30] <ejofee> it is said dapper will merge the two cds (live and installation) into one. but then does it have everything installed from the beginning, or there will still be a certain amount of debs which can be installed later? (either case, when used as a live cd, it will show much less apps available. right?)
[06:31] <ejofee> ((well, esp. the latter case))
[06:35] <LaserJock> ejofee: I don't think so, I think it will just have a script to install to a hard drive, but I don't know for sure
[06:56] <ejofee> LaserJock: how sure is it we'll have the new installer available for dapper?
[06:59] <LaserJock> ejofee: actually, I didn't quite read your questions right. I'm not sure if all the packages that would be installed will be availible in the livecd
[06:59] <LaserJock> ejofee: I'm not sure, we haven't seen about it but the answer seem that it will be here "soon"
[07:03] <ejofee> LaserJock: thanks
[07:34] <Burgundavia> ejofee, I have heard the first version will be available after the dev sprint
[07:50] <ejofee> Burgundavia: meaning... about when?
[07:51] <Burgundavia> ejofee, next few weeks
[07:52] <ejofee> Burgundavia: the text-based installer scared many friends of mine away from ubuntu; they had been spoiled by distros such as suse and mandriva, and ubuntu looked very unpolished to them; i guess this is more general than my friends only. i am sorry ubuntu didn't have a graphical installer from the beginning :(
[07:52] <ejofee> Burgundavia: some people are simply prejudiced against the console.
[07:57] <Burgundavia> ejofee, the new installer will leapfrog most existing installers, as it will install directly from within gnome from a livecd
[07:57] <ejofee> Burgundavia: ... or kde. right. which is *cool*. i found this feature also in pclinuxos.
[07:58] <Burgundavia> ejofee, the backend is all desktop agnostic. All the kde people is write a new front end
[07:58] <ejofee> right
[07:58] <ejofee> Burgundavia: as i said yesterday, maybe we should also use mc & nano as a failback for the live cd
[07:59] <ejofee> Burgundavia: this way we could get as user-friendly as possible
[07:59] <Burgundavia> ejofee, what does that offer?
[07:59] <ejofee> Burgundavia: you don't know mc?
[07:59] <ejofee> Burgundavia: (well, i mean "noob-friendly" rather than "user-friendly", but you're getting the point)
[08:00] <Burgundavia> nope, I am a gnome person through and through
[08:01] <ejofee> Burgundavia: mc is a console file browser (it very much resemble norton commander), including newbye-friendly file editing capabilities (so we don't even need nano)
[08:01] <ejofee> s/resemble/resembles/
[08:01] <ajmitch> ah, you're still on the mc crusade?
[08:02] <ajmitch> time for me to leave the conference & wander off home for the evening :)
[08:02] <ajmitch> bbl
[08:02] <Burgundavia> ejofee, I would argue what rescue mode needs is a couple of basic tools to restore grub, etc. and then if those fail, then put them in a console
[08:03] <Burgundavia> dumping someone in mc is no better than a console if they don't knwo what they need to do
[08:05] <ejofee> Burgundavia: agreed. however, mc could be useful for people which know what files they should edit and usually do it from kwrite.
[08:06] <ejofee> Burgundavia: for instance, editing fstab or lilo.conf
[08:06] <Burgundavia> ejofee, we already ship nano
[08:08] <ejofee> Burgundavia: btw, do you know any newbye-friendly console file browser (other than mc, more minimal)?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> ejofee, no, but we should not even be subjecting them to a file browser, etc. in rescue mode
[08:09] <Burgundavia> think bigger picture, what do people actually use that mode of the livecd for?
[08:09] <ejofee> Burgundavia: i guess you're right
[08:09] <Burgundavia> there are a few basic things that we need to write tools for
[08:09] <Burgundavia> grub recovery, X issues, etc.
[08:09] <ejofee> Burgundavia: well, actually i was thinking of the live cd used as a rescue cd
[08:10] <ejofee> Burgundavia: yes, that would be the better thing to do
[08:10] <ejofee> Burgundavia: till then, nano may be enough
[08:10] <ejofee> Burgundavia: (although i still think mc (which includes its "nano") could be more newbye-friendly)
[08:11] <Burgundavia> maybe, but I don't see the benefits of shipping it, versus the space costs, etc.
[08:12] <ejofee> Burgundavia: btw, doesn't mc have any lite version?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:31] <Ibalon> hi all
[08:43] <lucas> ejofee: have you raised the issue on ubuntu-devel@ ?
[08:44] <lucas> because, if you haven't, please stop discussing this here
[08:44] <lucas> as it was already said, we are not the ones making the decision here.
[08:48] <ejofee> lucas: ok. i will talk about this on #ubuntu-devel
[08:48] <ejofee> lucas: thanks
[08:48] <lucas> no
[08:48] <lucas> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:48] <lucas> trolling on #ubuntu-devel will get you nowhere
[08:49] <lucas> or make it a TechnicalBoard meeting point if you prefer to discuss it on IRC
[08:49] <Ibalon> hmmm, what's up here?
[08:49] <Ibalon> who's trolling?
[08:49] <lucas> Ibalon: ejofee would like mc to be included in main and shipped on the CDs
[08:50] <Ibalon> lucas: huh? isn't this yesterday's issue?
[08:50] <lucas> Ibalon: that's the problem :P
[08:51] <Ibalon> gaah
[08:52] <Ibalon> ejofee: if you want, you can start a MidnightCommanderMainInclusion on the wiki first, stating the rationale of your request, then open it up for discussion
[08:52] <lucas> true, that would be even better
[08:52] <Ibalon> ejofee: bringing this out randomly on #ubuntu-devel might get you nowhere
[08:52] <lucas> with debian popcon's stats
[08:53] <Ibalon> yup
[08:54] <ejofee> Ibalon: that's a good idea. how do i start that wiki page?
[08:55] <Ibalon> ejofee: just make sure you have an account on the ubuntu wiki, then just point your browser to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MidnightCommanderMainInclusion , and edit that page
[08:56] <ejofee> Ibalon: is this likely to get me some feedback?
[08:56] <lucas> no, but it's the first step. when you page is good enough, you can add it as an item for the next TB meeting
[08:56] <lucas> (that's next tuesday)
[08:56] <Ibalon> ejofee: of course, people do read RecentChanges ;)  you should also post a heads-up on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[08:56] <ejofee> lucas: i see. that's nice. thank you.
[09:17] <StevenK> But it's Midnight Commander! No one uses it anymore.
[09:17] <Treenaks> StevenK: tell my brother :)
[09:18] <StevenK> I swore off mc when I saw its interface.
[09:18] <Ibalon> StevenK: lol
[09:19] <StevenK> There. 131 Ubuntu users have mc installed.
[09:20] <StevenK> (Out of approx. 400 people that have submitted popcon results, based off coreutils)
[09:20] <Ibalon> I used nc before (circa 1993) back on msdos, not too bad
[09:20] <Ibalon> but I can't say the same for mc, never used it :(
[09:22] <StevenK> It also reminds me of XTree Gold.
[09:22] <StevenK> And let's face it, better alternatives exist.
[10:01] <ejofee> applications marked by an ubuntu logo in synaptic mean main?
[10:02] <Ibalon> er?
[10:05] <ejofee> Ibalon: what is that you don't understand?
[10:06] <Ibalon> ejofee: err no, I was reacting to my becoming op here suddenly :(
[10:07] <ejofee> Ibalon :))
[10:07] <Ibalon> ejofee: apps with the ubuntu logo are in main, yes iirc
[10:07] <ejofee> Ibalon: thanks
[10:11] <Tonio_> about Automake transition causing FTBFS, can we take the oportunity to update a bit the packages (changing debhelper version etc...) or do we have to make the strict minimum ?
[10:17] <ejofee> is there any minimal wm in main? like icewm, twm?
[10:20] <dholbach> good morning
[10:22] <Ibalon> heya dholbach
[10:22] <dholbach> hey Ibalon
[10:30] <Ibalon> heya raphink :)
[10:41] <Ibalon> hm, any reason why thunar isn't merged/synced yet?
[10:44] <Ibalon> wb \sh
[10:45] <\sh> moins
 hm, any reason why thunar isn't merged/synced yet?
[10:54] <\sh> hmmm
[10:54] <\sh> I need a little advise regarding https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-scientific/+bug/5950
[10:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: Unconfirmed
[10:55] <\sh> python-scientific depends on python-netcdf, but python-netcdf needs python-scientific
[10:55] <viviersf> lol
[10:55] <\sh> if you install python-netcdf it doesn't work properly
[10:56] <\sh> my fix would be to change the dependencies, because I think python-scientific does not need python-netcdf but the other way around is much better
[10:58] <zakame> true true
[11:04] <ajmitch> evening :)
[11:04] <raphink> hi ajmitch \sh viviersf
[11:04] <\sh> ajmitch: and? successfull represented the MOTUs?
[11:04] <ajmitch> hi raphink
[11:05] <ajmitch> \sh: of course, along with Lathiat
[11:05] <\sh> PV=`ls -la \`which python\`|cut -d ">" -f 2|cut -d "n" -f 2`
[11:05] <raphink> hi StevenK
[11:05] <ajmitch> \sh: google paid :)
[11:05] <raphink> oh nice
[11:05] <\sh> this is the ugliest hack I ever wrote...but better then build-dep on perl/sed/awk
[11:05] <raphink> :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> \sh: that is nasty
[11:05] <\sh> ajmitch: it just works in rules files nicely :)
[11:06] <ajmitch> especially if it points to /etc/alternatives/python
[11:06] <\sh> ajmitch: try it :)
[11:06] <ajmitch> \sh: I'm not sure if it'll always hold true
[11:06] <\sh> ajmitch: well to detect the default python version sure
[11:06] <ajmitch> I'm sure I've seen a box using alternatives for python
[11:07] <\sh> ajmitch: but it's not the default
[11:07] <ajmitch> for now
[11:07] <ajmitch> depends what doko does for his new python stuff
[11:08] <\sh> ajmitch: well..then I have enough time to think about a new ugly hack which just works and is not introducing new uneeded build-deps
[11:08] <ajmitch> heh
[11:09] <ajmitch> python -V doesn't work?
[11:09] <ajmitch> btw sed is Essential
[11:09] <ajmitch> so you can use it
[11:10] <ajmitch> as is grep, fwiw
[11:11] <\sh> ajmitch: *whisper* I only want to know when the packagemaintainer is going to hunt me down
[11:11] <siretart> hi
[11:11] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[11:11] <siretart> what are you doing there? modifying debian/control on buildds?
[11:11] <raphink> hi siretart
[11:11] <ajmitch> \sh: depending on the existence of a symlink is far more crackful than using python -V :)
[11:11] <ajmitch> siretart: what's up?
[11:11] <viviersf> lo raphink
[11:12] <siretart> wasn't this considered as release critical bug in debian?
[11:12] <siretart> ajmitch: thanks, fine. I'm cleaning up over here :)
[11:12] <ajmitch> siretart: fun, I've just been down at a pub with lots of linux geeks & free beer
[11:19] <siretart> ajmitch: wow. thats sounds promising :)
[11:19] <ajmitch> siretart: yep :)
[12:13] <\sh> hmm...I can compile vlc with our toolchain compilers...but trying to watch matroska encoded movies just gives me this nasty glibc message
[12:16] <sivang> \sh: what are matroska encided movies?
[12:17] <\sh> sivang: http://www.matroska.org/
[12:18] <sivang> \sh: xml based binary format , sounds almost funny :)
[12:18] <\sh> sivang: no..the contents is real bytestream, but the description of the chapters etc. are in xml and somehow webbed into those files.
[12:20] <sivang> \sh: ah, right I'm just reading about it. So I wonder why it needs be EBML and not XML , if it un-related to the actual bytestream.
[12:20] <\sh> sivang: ask upstream :) I only want to be able to watch those files :)
[12:22] <raphink> :)
[12:23] <sivang> \sh: heh :)
[12:23] <\sh> and with xine it works :)
[12:27] <siretart> \sh: there was a xine cvs commit regarding matroska earlier today
[12:27] <\sh> siretart: I used the actual version of xine indapper and was able to watch it...strangly it has no build-dep on libmatroska-dev
[12:27] <sivang> hey siretart , 'sup?
[12:32] <siretart> sivang: thanks, fine. I'm currently trying to fix courier. and you
[12:35] <sivang> siretart: trying to finish some utility class for HUB
[12:38] <sivang> siretart: how do you find out the bin pkgs that a source pkg produces?
[12:39] <siretart> sivang: apt-cache showsrc <pkg>
[12:41] <sivang> siretart: ah, I thought there was more "straight" way, like rdepends or something
[01:14] <ejofee> how do i log in?
[01:14] <ejofee> wrong password, again and again.
[01:16] <raphink> ejofee: what are you talking about,
[01:17] <lucas> use your email address and you LP password
[01:17] <lucas> it works
[01:17] <lucas> raphink: wiki...
[01:17] <raphink> ah
[01:20] <ejofee> raphink: actually i don't know what i am talking about. all i want is to edit a wiki page (at wiki.ubuntu.com). instead, i am being terrorized by some stupid advice on me using some sort of starship. (btw, does launchpad mean anything to you?)
[01:20] <ejofee> raphink: it seemply won't login so that i could edit somethin. i do have an account.
[01:22] <ejofee> raphink: i mean, am i angry i have to be a cosmonaut in order to login!
[01:22] <raphink> you just have to use your LP account to log on the wiki
[01:22] <raphink> hmmpf
[01:22] <ejofee> raphink: but it won't accept my password (or my account?)!
[01:22] <raphink> ejofee: LP and the wiki are not toys ;)
[01:22] <raphink> they are tools for the ubuntu development
[01:23] <raphink> we don't really play cosmonauts ;)
[01:23] <raphink> LP is the centralized tool for Ubuntu development, this is why the LP account is used on many other tools
[01:24] <ejofee> raphink: well, i kinda figured it out they were not toys... but do you think i simply don't know my launchpad account? i *can* login to launchpad. i can't use the same account on the wiki, though.
[01:24] <raphink> ejofee: if you have a pb with LP, go ask on #launchpad
[01:24] <ejofee> raphink: i see. thanks.
[01:25] <ejofee> raphink: wow!! it works!!
[01:26] <ejofee> raphink: didn't know i had to actually use my *email account* (!!) !
[01:26] <ejofee> raphink: isn't this stupid, btw?
[01:26] <ejofee> raphink: ... then why do they allow me to create an identity, if i don't use it anyway?
[01:26] <raphink> sorry?
[01:27] <ejofee> raphink: i have a nickname on the launchpad
[01:27] <ejofee> raphink: i thought that was what i should use as a user name
[01:27] <ejofee> raphink: brb
[01:40] <raphink> dholbach: hi
[01:40] <dholbach> re :)
[01:40] <raphink> dholbach: could you have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1612 please ?
[01:41] <dholbach> not now
[01:41] <dholbach> sorry
[01:41] <dholbach> I'm fairly busy. :/
[01:41] <raphink> ok
[01:41] <raphink> nb ;)
[01:41] <raphink> np
[01:41] <raphink> \sh: do you have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1612 ?
[01:45] <Gloubiboulga> hello
[01:46] <jown> hi! does anyone can tell me how to fix these errors. "locale not supported by xlib" and "Gdk-WARNING **: cannot set locale modifiers
[01:46] <jown> " in programming after i execute my program.
[01:49] <raphink> hi Gloubiboulga && jown
[01:49] <Gloubiboulga> hello raphink
[01:49] <raphink> tu vas  SL ?
[01:51] <Gloubiboulga> raphink, non, pas prvu
[01:51] <Gloubiboulga> tu y seras ?
[01:52] <raphink> je pense
[01:52] <raphink> j'ai une entr
[01:52] <raphink> e
[02:22] <Mithrandir> tseng: is it you or somebody I should annoy until beagle is fixed?
[02:30] <tseng> Mithrandir: it needs a UVF
[02:31] <tseng> Mithrandir: which i havent written yet, but we only send them to mdz once a week now...
[02:31] <tseng> two UVF, actually.. gmime .19 also
[02:32] <tseng> beagle is finicky about gmime2.1 version, and someone synced one which broke beagle
[02:49] <zakame> evening MOTUs
[02:55] <Fritti> hello
[02:56] <zakame> hello Fritti
[02:56] <Fritti> who can I bug to help me with a few lintian warnings?
[02:56] <Fritti> I'm totally new to packaging in Ubuntu
[02:56] <Fritti> but I managed to get something run through pbuilder :-)
[02:56] <Fritti> and it seems to work when installed
[02:57] <Fritti> basically I packaged this: http://gizmod.sourceforge.net/ and I got this: http://sandcat.nl/~stijn/dev/gizmod/
[02:57] <zakame> Fritti: what are the warnings?
[02:57] <Fritti> however lintian complains about a shared library symlink, and about an old policy version
[02:58] <Fritti> wait a sec until I can paste it, forgot to enable sshd on the ubuntu system an I'm not on it right now :-/
[02:59] <Fritti> W: gizmod source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.6.1.0
[02:59] <Fritti> W: gizmod: non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libGizmo.so.0.0.3 usr/lib/libGizmo.so
[02:59] <Fritti> those 2
[03:00] <zakame> hmm, looks gizmod is more than just a binary package, its a library package as well
[03:00] <zakame> have you read dancer's library packaging guide?
[03:01] <Fritti> it's basically an internal library
[03:01] <Fritti> but I haven't read that guide, got an URL ?
[03:01] <Fritti> (and of course now RL catches in, so I must be off now; be back in an hour or so)
[03:01] <zakame> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[03:02] <zakame> just inspecting by sight, but it seems it produces both a binary (daemon) and a library package
[03:34] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:35] <zakame> evening bddebian
[03:35] <bddebian> Howdy zakame
[03:36] <Tonio_> hi all
[03:36] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[03:36] <Tonio_> I'm searching for a tool or command that allow to mornitor in real time the modified files
[03:36] <Tonio_> there is a tool called filemon on windows, but I don't find any equivalent on linux...
[03:37] <bddebian> Oh man, I remember seeing one but I cannot for the life of me remember the name of it.. :-(
[03:37] <zakame> hm something like fam?
[03:37] <Tonio_> zakame: let me check ;)
[03:38] <bddebian> Who's the bugmaster these days? :-)
[03:38] <Tonio_> zakame: that's it ! I didn't knew that tool.... thanks ;)
[03:39] <zakame> Tonio_: no prob :)
[03:39] <zakame> bddebian: huh? I thought that was you ;-)
[03:39] <Tonio_> zakame: urghhhhhhhhhh, sudo apt-get install fam ........
[03:39] <bddebian> zakame: Not hardly :-(
[03:39] <Tonio_> apt wants to delete 441MB of archives, including the full kde etc........;
[03:40] <bddebian> w00t
[03:40] <zakame> Tonio_: I think for Ubuntu you'll want gamin
[03:40] <zakame> I remembered fam because that's what I had since gnome 1.4
[03:40] <zakame> (back in debian woody)
[03:41] <Tonio_> zakame: http://pastebin.com/522316
[03:41] <azeem> Tonio_: gamin
[03:41] <azeem> is that installed?
[03:41] <Tonio_> azeem: I'm checkin'
[03:42] <zakame> Tonio_: I wonder when we'll have that level of l10n for tl_PH :)
[03:43] <Tonio_> zakame: hehe
[03:43] <Tonio_> zakame: anyway, there is a hudge dependancy problem on that package...........
[03:44] <Tonio_> zakame: installing it means breaking the system for sure
[03:44] <zakame> Tonio_: for fam? well yes, for it's actually quite old, and may be ripe for removal in debian
[03:44] <Tonio_> zakame: ok
[03:44] <zakame> gamin is going to replace fam iirc
[03:45] <Tonio_> zakame: I can see there is a gam_server, but how about a client
[03:45] <azeem> ubuntu-desktop depends on gamin
[03:45] <azeem> since hoary, actually
[03:46] <zakame> ooh, there you go
[03:46] <azeem> Tonio_: libgnomevfs2 is the client AFAIK
[03:46] <azeem> Tonio_: you can write your own I guess
[03:47] <zakame> hmm, in MOTU, should we also prepare for the upcoming libfreetyp6 removal/transition?
[03:47] <azeem> what is the transition going to look like?
[03:48] <Tonio_> zakame: okay, I will have to use a gnome app then......... ;)
[03:49] <zakame> well I was looking at http://wiki.debian.org/FreetypeTransition
[03:49] <azeem> oh, ok
[03:49] <azeem> thought Ubuntu decided on something
[03:49] <zakame> not yet, unless I missed a decision or something :)
[03:54] <ejofee> i found it!!!
[03:55] <ejofee> lfm!
[03:55] <ejofee> lfm & nano are the best options for user-friendly text-based rescue mode.
[03:55] <ejofee> please try it and opine
[03:56] <siretart> Tonio_: congrats for membership, dude!
[03:57] <bddebian> Tonio_ got in too?  Awesome, congrats!
[03:58] <Tonio_> siretart, bddebian : thanks :)
[04:00] <Tonio_> azeem: according to what I understand, both fam or gamin are daemons, but there is no client using them the way I need...
[04:00] <raphink> for those interested, I'm currently working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewingGuide , a reviewing guide for MOTUs and others :)
[04:00] <Tonio_> azeem: anyway I'll find another solution ;)
[04:00] <raphink> just begun today but I think it can already be reviewed
[04:00] <azeem> Tonio_: could be, yes
[04:00] <raphink> while I'm taking a small break from it
[04:00] <azeem> Tonio_: gamin has python bindings, so writing a client should be easy
[04:01] <Tonio_> azeem: possibly yes ;)
[04:01] <Tonio_> azeem: let me learn python and then give you a feedback ;)
[04:01] <\sh> phew
[04:01] <\sh> just fixed a really serious problems...
[04:01] <\sh> -s
[04:01] <zakame> ooh, w00t Tonio_ !!! :)
[04:02] <Tonio_> zakame: introducing to python is on my todo list for 2006, but well.... I'm not a natural developper at all, so that's not my priority ;)
[04:03] <zakame> Tonio_: well, not just that, but for your membership too :)
[04:03] <zakame> Tonio_: I myself am taking the scenic C route, learning autotools along the way ;)
[04:04] <Tonio_> zakame: thanks you, so !
[04:04] <siretart> raphink: nice wiki page
[04:04] <raphink> siretart: thanks, it's far from being done :)
[04:04] <siretart> raphink: have you seen the suggestions from from sistpoty regarding when to (not) repack the orig.tar.gz?
[04:05] <raphink> hm no
[04:05] <raphink> what are they?
[04:05] <zakame> yes, I'm interested on that myself (after repackaging libmemcache)
[04:07] <Fritti> zakame: thanks for the URL. I'm reading it now, but I'm thinking: if I replace the .so in the package with static linking, I wouldn't have to make a libGizmo0 .deb, right? because I think it's only useful as an internal library.
[04:08] <Fritti> I mean, no other packages could usefully link to libgizmo, it's just for gizmod and gizmoc both of which are included in that package
[04:08] <Fritti> hmm now that I think about it, I could porbably split that out... and then I'd need a libgizmo package
[04:08] <zakame> Fritti: pretty much so... experiment anyway, its your package ;)
[04:08] <Fritti> heh :-)
[04:08] <Fritti> will do
[04:08] <Fritti> got a pointer on the other warning though?
[04:09] <Fritti> W: gizmod source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.6.1.0
[04:09] <raphink> 3.6.2 is the current version Fritti
[04:09] <Fritti> a random sample (read: 2) of other ubuntu source packages seemed to specify that version
[04:09] <Fritti> ah k
[04:09] <zakame> Fritti: sed -e 's/3.6.1.0/3.6.2/' debian/control
[04:09] <zakame> (if I recall my sed correctly ;)
[04:09] <Fritti> yeah, thanks. I just didn't know where to look for the current correct version
[04:11] <Fritti> last question (for now): if i don't want to become a full MOTU but I'd like the package to be available in Ubuntu universe, how/where do I submit it?
[04:11] <zakame> Fritti: put it up on REVU and look for a couple of MOTUs to review it :)
[04:11] <zakame> revu.tauware.de
[04:12] <Fritti> cool, thanks!
[04:12] <Fritti> I'll be lurking and rebuilding the package now. thanks for the help so far!
[04:12] <zakame> Fritti: rock on :)
[04:13] <raphink> Fritti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[04:13] <zakame> raphink: rocking reviewer guide :)
[04:13] <raphink> zakame: just a beginning ;)
[04:14] <raphink> but I think it can help both reviewers and packagers :)
[04:15] <siretart> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball
[04:15] <raphink> ok
[04:15] <raphink> I'll refer to it in the guide thanks much siretart
[04:18] <raphink> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewingGuide#head-e696647555ac4361f156922ab3bb66ada206e164
[04:21] <siretart> raphink: :)
[05:14] <thierry_> anyone in science team here?
[05:43] <thierry_> could a MOTU accept https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-scientific/+bug/5950 ? I just sent a patch
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: Unconfirmed
[05:45] <thierry_> slomo_ : ping
[05:49] <azeem> thierry_: I guess somebody will tend to it sooner or later
[05:50] <thierry_> azeem : k
[06:13] <LaserJock> raphink: ping?
[06:52] <thierry_> LaserJock : could you check https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-scientific/+bug/5950 ?
[06:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5950: "python-netcdf does not depend on python-scientific, but does need it" Fix req. for: python-scientific (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: Unconfirmed
[06:54] <Hieronymus> * The xlibs, xlibs-data, xlibs-static-dev, xlibs-static-pic, xbase-clients, xutils, and x-window-system-dev packages have been removed.  xlibs-dev remains.  For now.
[06:54] <Hieronymus> So what about liballegro-dev which depends on xlibs-static-dev and xlibs-static-pic?
[06:55] <siretart> Hieronymus: I'd say thats broken and needs to be fixed
[06:56] <siretart> Hieronymus: I'd suggest filing a bug to debian
[06:58] <Hieronymus> siretart: Debian still has these packages
[06:58] <siretart> Hieronymus: they are deprecated, and should not be used any longer
[06:59] <siretart> Hieronymus: read this as: they will go away soon in debian, too
[06:59] <jamessan> and many of the packages that depended on those were fixed over the weekend thanks to Amaya and a few others that did lots of NMUs
[07:00] <siretart> yes
[07:00] <Hieronymus> siretart: where does it say they're deprecated?
[07:01] <siretart> Hieronymus: the debian x maintainers. there was a post on debian-devel-announce
[07:03] <LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
[07:03] <dholbach> LaserJock: pong
[07:04] <LaserJock> dholbach: you package ubuntu-docs, right?
[07:04] <dholbach> Yes.
[07:04] <LaserJock> dholbach: how often do you take a svn snapshot?
[07:04] <dholbach> I try to do every week.
[07:04] <dholbach> Should I do more often?
[07:05] <LaserJock> dholbach: well, no. I just commited a very alpha Packaging Guide and I wondered how long I had until you would package it :-)
[07:05] <dholbach> I can do an update later on, if you like
[07:06] <LaserJock> I don't want to ruin your work flow
[07:06] <dholbach> No, you don't
[07:06] <dholbach> I'll do later.
[07:06] <LaserJock> I just wondered if you were going to do it in the next day or two
[07:07] <LaserJock> I feel kinda bad right now because Unfrgiven's doc was what we had and it was more complete than what we have now
[07:08] <LaserJock> but I have another person working on it and being able to use the svn repo is nice
[07:08] <dholbach> I'm sure it'll rock in the end.
[07:09] <LaserJock> I think so, and raphink added a wonderful Reviewing Guide to the wiki last night
[07:11] <Hieronymus> siretart: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg00003.html this post? It's about not using xlibs-dev
[07:11] <azeem> Hieronymus: the other stuff was earlier, I think
[07:40] <Hieronymus> siretart, azeem: I can't find it
[07:43] <ajmitch> morning
[07:43] <siretart> hi ajmitch
[08:00] <dholbach> LaserJock: what dir are your changes in?
[08:01] <ajmitch> hm.. more uvf exceptions to check out
[08:01] <LaserJock> dholbach:  generic/packagingguide/C/
[08:01] <ajmitch> dholbach: who would be crazy enough to review selinux UVF exceptions? :)
[08:02] <dholbach> ajmitch: good question
[08:03] <ajmitch> just some possibles, depending on what is changed upstream
[08:05] <LaserJock> dholbach: is that the info you wanted?
[08:07] <dholbach> LaserJock: yes
[08:19] <LaserJock> dholbach: I'm going to try to get my "packaging without debhelper or cdbs" guide out today and I have a skeleton for "packaging with debhelper" from another docteam guy.
[08:19] <ajmitch> I wonder if I still have enough time before feature freeze for most of this selinux stuff
[08:19] <dholbach> Oh nice
[08:31] <Nafallo> ajmitch: put it in bzr and tell people to contribute? :-)
[08:38] <ajmitch> Nafallo: maybe
[08:38] <ajmitch> Nafallo: I want to get in touch with the debianguys first
[08:38] <Nafallo> yea, that's sane.
[08:39] <Nafallo> manoj have everything in tla still I guess ;-)
[08:39] <ajmitch> the only one I talk with a bit is rjc, who mainly does redhat :)
[08:39] <ajmitch> it's not the packages that we care about now
[08:39] <ajmitch> that part is basically done (patching userland)
[08:39] <ajmitch> manoj maintains the other selinux utils, which is fine
[08:40] <ajmitch> but the reference policy needs to be built & tuned for ubuntu, using binary modules, etc
[08:40] <ajmitch> & then user management, other admin tools :)
[08:40] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[08:41] <ajmitch> http://wiki.lca2006.linux.org.au/SE%20Linux%20Tutorial
[08:41] <ajmitch> I've got to head down there now for today's keynote talk :)
[08:42] <Nafallo> hmm, I need some good docs about that stuff :-)
[08:42] <ajmitch> yes
[08:42] <ajmitch> I need to try & get some done
[08:43] <Fritti> is there a doc on autotools, patching Makefile.am, and how to regenerate the resulting *.in etc?
[08:43] <Fritti> or basically, regenerate it yourself and put it all in .diff.gz?
[08:52] <LaserJock> dholbach: woa, you added my new packaging guide to ubuntu-docs?
[08:53] <Nafallo> lol
[08:53] <dholbach> LaserJock: the build system added it
[08:53] <Nafallo> yelp crashes on amd64, known? :-)
[08:53] <Nafallo> lol
[08:53] <LaserJock> dholbach: all right, well we will see how it goes. I wish I could have added more
[08:53] <Nafallo> I/O warning : failed to load external entity "Cannot write to log file: /var/log/scrollkeeper.log : Permission denied"
[08:54] <dholbach> Nafallo: look if   ./configure --help   gives you an option to turn off
[08:54] <dholbach> LaserJock: It'll now get in with each update. :-)
[08:54] <LaserJock> dholbach: ok
[08:56] <Nafallo> dholbach: not as I can see...
[08:56] <LaserJock> dholbach: did you happen to look at the packaging guide?
[08:56] <dholbach> LaserJock: no, unfortunately not
[08:57] <dholbach> LaserJock: I'm still quite busy. :-/
[08:57] <dholbach> Nafallo: no scrollkeeper stufF?
[08:57] <LaserJock> dholbach: lol, good. I'll have a chance to clean it up before you look at it ;-)
[08:57] <Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~/devel/motu/yelp-2.13.3 $ ./configure --help | grep scroll
[08:57] <Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~/devel/motu/yelp-2.13.3 $
[08:57] <dholbach> :-)
[08:57] <LaserJock> dholbach: I get that error as well when I try gnome-help
[08:57] <Nafallo> dholbach: ^ :-)
[08:58] <LaserJock> but I don't get it in my dapper chroot
[08:58] <dholbach> Nafallo: ah sorry, now i understood -- thought it was a build problem
[08:58] <dholbach> Yeah, I know about the bug, it's filed already
[08:58] <Nafallo> oki :-)
[08:59] <Nafallo> workaround would be to chmod 666 /var/log/scrollkeeper.log?
[09:00] <Nafallo> nope :-P
[09:00] <Nafallo> I/O warning : failed to load external entity ""
[09:03] <Nafallo> LaserJock: dude. that manual got thinner then ever :-)
[09:04] <LaserJock> right
[09:04] <LaserJock> well, I'm working on it ;-)
[09:04] <Nafallo> yea, I know it's a WIP :-)
[09:04] <LaserJock> I'm hoping not to many people will get mad at me
[09:05] <LaserJock> I don't know if anybody was really using the old one too much
[09:05] <LaserJock> but it was a real pain having my work not be in the docteam repo
[09:05] <LaserJock> and it motivates me to get it done ;-)
[09:05] <Nafallo> agreed. I always liked the wiki better than the old one :-)
[09:06] <LaserJock> I'm hoping to incorporate the wiki a lot, we need to have a permanent home for some of the awesome material we are getting
[09:07] <Nafallo> agreed
[09:08] <LaserJock> I just find it is easier to have it in one doc rather than scattered all over the wiki
[09:10] <Fritti> so... any pointer on how to handle Makefile.am patches yet? Shall I put that in patches/01_useful_patch and the resulting auto* regeneration patch in patches/02_god_i_hate_autotools.patch?
[09:13] <Fritti> I guess I'm good at killing the conversation here.. sorry people :-)
[09:14] <LaserJock> Fritti: don't be sorry, I just don't know how to answer your question
[09:16] <Fritti> nah, just joking; new to this .deb packaging stuff (I'm used to FreeBSD ports), but I guess I shouldn't have picked stuff like this as my first package
[09:16] <LaserJock> Fritti: so wouldn't you patch the Makefile.am and then wouldn't building the package genrate the .in
[09:16] <Fritti> could do that, but then it would depend on a specific version of automake
[09:16] <Fritti> can't guarantee that it'd be the same on the build machine I guess
[09:17] <Fritti> I ran into this same problem with FreeBSD ports which is why I'm grumbling at auto*
[09:18] <Nafallo> does anyone like auto*? :-)
[09:18] <Fritti> developers I guess
[09:18] <Fritti> at any rate if every upstream used the newest version I guess there would be no problems
[09:18] <seth|lappy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1416 (kde style needs review, if anyone's bored) :)
[09:19] <Nafallo> tired, not bored :-P
[09:20] <seth|lappy> hehe
[09:27] <crimsun> 'lo bddebian
[09:35] <marcin`> hello MOTUs
[09:35] <marcin`> got a question about launchpad and vtiger
[09:36] <marcin`> there is bounty: https://launchpad.net/bounties/vtiger-universe
[09:36] <marcin`> and I got this package almost ready
[09:36] <marcin`> could someone tell me what is the procedure to claim bounty and upload package to universe?
[09:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: how's it going?
[09:55] <Kyral> brb, gotta throw the laundry into the dryer :P
[09:58] <Kyral> okay
[09:58] <Kyral> I jumped back to GNOME
[09:58] <Kyral> I wanna see Cairo + X11R7 + XCompmgr in action :P
[09:59] <LaserJock> are you trying right now?
[09:59] <Kyral> yah
[09:59] <LaserJock> is it good?
[09:59] <Kyral> I'm trying lol
[10:00] <LaserJock> oh, I though you were "trying it out" not "trying to get it going" ;-)
[10:01] <Kyral> and GNOME-Terminal crashed lol
[10:15] <Kyral> okay this rocks lol
[10:17] <sivang> Kyral: working now?
[10:17] <Kyral> XCompmgr seems a lot less busted lol
[10:18] <Kyral> and m,y system Resource usage went down...ironically
[10:18] <Kyral> Maybe its because the RAM on the video card is being used to draw the screen
[10:19] <sivang> Kyral: how do I set it up on dapper?
[10:20] <Kyral> First activate XCompmgr the usual way
[10:21] <Kyral> then just go to GNOME Look and snag a Cairo theme
[10:21] <Kyral> screen seems iffy with it..
[10:22] <Kyral> bah it just crashed
[10:22] <Kyral> screen flickerd and then I saw that the shadows weren't there
[10:23] <Kyral> Transset works nicely too
[10:24] <Kyral> just hit the Panel with Transset :P
[10:25] <raphink> marcin`: I'm in contact with the guy who posted the bounty since a month
[10:26] <raphink> and i've been working on it oo
[10:26] <raphink> too
[10:26] <raphink> marcin`: just know that whatis required is not merely a package
[10:26] <raphink> you have to use debconf and such to get the package to set up automatically
[10:26] <raphink> marcin`: if you're planning on finishing this bounty soon, I can give you the work i've done so far
[10:27] <raphink> marcin`: the pbs I've encountered are mosly due to mysql settings
[10:27] <raphink> marcin`: this guy would like this app to install and work without a single command to put in a console
[10:27] <raphink> just clicks in synaptic or so
[10:28] <raphink> and mysql needs to be set in a console
[10:28] <raphink> marcin`: if you find a way, I'm interested in knowing, even for other packages
[10:33] <LaserJock> hi raphink
[10:41] <Kyral> hmm
[10:41] <Kyral> it seems stable if you disable the drop shadows..
[10:42] <thierry> dholbach : ping
[10:45] <LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, I always found it stable when I disablee all the reasons I wanted to have it ;-)
[10:45] <Kyral> well, fade in and out work
[10:45] <Kyral> and Transset stays stable
[10:51] <Kyral> hmm
[10:51] <Kyral> I find it odd that this isn't in the repos...considering where it comes from...
[10:51] <Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=683
[10:54] <crimsun> the spammers are out in force
[10:54] <Kyral> who?
[10:55] <xhaker> Kyral: <itsmeeh> must go today 1 alienware area51-m 5700 laptop price 650 includes shipping, carry case. message me on mcsltd@telusmail.net on msn or on mikcomputing on aim
[10:55] <xhaker> lol
[10:55] <Kyral> ah
[10:55] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I got the same spam on #vim
[10:59] <Fritti> can I just tell you random people in here that I absolutely hate that 'autom4te.cache' directory
[11:00] <dholbach> thierry: pong
[11:01] <raphink> marcin`: got my message?
[11:01] <raphink> dholbach: did you have a look at the reviewing guide I worked on today?
[11:02] <dholbach> raphink: no, I didn't
[11:02] <marcin`> raphink: just a moment
[11:02] <dholbach> sorry
[11:02] <raphink> dholbach: no pb ;)
[11:02] <raphink> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewingGuide if you want to give me your comments on that part
[11:02] <dholbach> i'll now prepare a talk for tomorrow's linuxdays.lu - so don't ask for anything important just today
[11:03] <dholbach> you could ask for comments on the mailing list though
[11:03] <LaserJock> raphink: I thought it was really cool
[11:03] <marcin`> raphink: ok got it
[11:03] <thierry> dholbach : you told me you could find someone to review my package...
[11:03] <raphink> marcin`: so if you want what i've done so far I can give it to you
[11:03] <raphink> marcin`: as I said i'm already in contact with the guy
[11:03] <dholbach> thierry: i told you that I'd search a reviewer for you?
[11:04] <raphink> marcin`: and I consider this a rather difficult packaging, but I don't know your skills yet ;)
[11:04] <dholbach> thierry: please just ask in here.
[11:04] <raphink> LaserJock: you've read it so far?
[11:05] <marcin`> raphink: if you could then please mail me what you got currently
[11:05] <LaserJock> raphink: yeah, read it when I got up this morning. I had a bunch of wiki emails when I got up ;-)
[11:05] <marcin`> raphink: in fact I really wan't to have package with vtiger for tomorrow
[11:05] <raphink> marcin`: http://raphink.free.fr/packages/
[11:06] <raphink> marcin`: this is what I had a month ago
[11:06] <marcin`> raphink: because I need this to deploy vtiger in company I work for
[11:06] <marcin`> raphink: well then I got this already
[11:06] <thierry> dholbach : ok no problem
[11:06] <raphink> marcin`: oh you worked on my package,
[11:07] <thierry> anyone who could review my package? libfxruby1.4
[11:07] <marcin`> raphink: kind of... :)
[11:07] <Kyral> what port does MySQL listen on?
[11:07] <marcin`> raphink: but in fact I changed a lot
[11:07] <raphink> what did you change marcin` ?
[11:08] <raphink> marcin`: if you want, we can worked together on it ;)
[11:08] <raphink> s/worked/work
[11:09] <Fritti> Kyral: 3306 I think
[11:09] <marcin`> raphink: well ok but not today it's 23:08 here but I'm incredibely tired I worked on some custom module for vtiger all night yesterday
[11:09] <raphink> sure not today
[11:09] <marcin`> raphink: but sure - I'll start tomorrow morning
[11:09] <raphink> feel free to ping me when you want to work on it
[11:09] <raphink> we're on the same time zone so it shoudln't be too ahrd
[11:09] <raphink> hard
[11:10] <Fritti> does running 'debuild' imply a -P when running dh_strip ?
[11:10] <marcin`> raphink: another thing is that I got custom infrastructure for packaging
[11:10] <raphink> how do you mean marcin` ?
[11:10] <marcin`> raphink: just bunch of make scripts that work simmilar to garnome and they
[11:10] <raphink> hmm as long as it's fine with policy that's ok I guess
[11:11] <marcin`> raphink: do some things automagically - such as downloads, cvs checkouts etc.
[11:11] <raphink> the goal is to get the package(s) in universe though
[11:11] <raphink> hmmpf
[11:11] <raphink> if they are just maintainer tools that's fine
[11:11] <raphink> but if they run at build or so
[11:11] <raphink> I don't think we want that in universe
[11:11] <marcin`> raphink: yes they are maintainer tools
[11:12] <raphink> we've got enough of such crap around
[11:12] <marcin`> raphink: I only use cdbs in rules or just plain makefile
[11:12] <raphink> I use cdbs too
[11:12] <Fritti> right. i think dh_strip doesn't understand --tmpdir: $ dh_strip --tmpdir=debian/tmp
[11:12] <Fritti> dh_strip: -P was specified, but multiple packages would be acted on (gizmod,gizmoc,libgizmoplugins0,libgizmo0,libgizmo0-dev).
[11:13] <raphink> but the auto update option is not to be used though if youw ere thinking of it marcin`
[11:13] <raphink> well I think you saw it if you worked on my package
[11:13] <raphink> I used cdbs and install files debian/
[11:13] <marcin`> raphink: yes I realized that
[11:14] <marcin`> raphink: anyway back to work - you live in France right?
[11:14] <raphink> yep
[11:14] <raphink> but I'm in holland right now
[11:14] <marcin`> raphink: ok so your working hours are simmilar to mine so I'll try to ping you tomorrow
[11:15] <raphink> yes
[11:15] <raphink> good
[11:15] <Fritti> doh. --tmpdir equals -P. so much for useful error messages :-/
[11:15] <marcin`> raphink: night
[11:15] <raphink> night marcin`
[11:56] <Fritti> Now running lintian...
[11:56] <Fritti> Finished running lintian.
[11:56] <Fritti> YAY