| thierry | raphink : could you review my package? libfxruby1.4 ? | 12:05 |
|---|---|---|
| raphink | not right now thierry I'm a bit busy | 12:07 |
| raphink | :) | 12:07 |
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| thierry | raphink : no problem :) | 12:10 |
| === lamont__ [n=lamont@mib.fc.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| raphink | thierry: I'm working on a reviewing guide right now :) | 12:16 |
| raphink | would you like to review it (for a change) ? | 12:17 |
| === jvw [i=jeroen@220pc220.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| jvw | RFC on an informal poll I intend to start within Debian: http://master.debian.org/~jeroen/polls/maintainer-field/ballot.txt | 12:18 |
| raphink | nice | 12:19 |
| thierry | raphink : with pleasure! link? | 12:21 |
| raphink | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewingGuide | 12:21 |
| raphink | I'm editing it, so it's growing and changing | 12:21 |
| thierry | raphink : the only problem is that I'm not a package reviewer but I can take a look anyway from what I know | 12:21 |
| raphink | then you can learn from it :) | 12:21 |
| Fritti | raphink: is it related to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewingTips ? | 12:21 |
| Fritti | I got sent there from http://revu.tauware.de/ | 12:22 |
| raphink | Fritti: I'm trying to gather all the things I know about reviewing and make a method out of it | 12:22 |
| raphink | so I use ReviewingTips aswell | 12:22 |
| Fritti | ok | 12:22 |
| raphink | but I aim to create a much more complete document | 12:22 |
| raphink | for both reviewers and packagers | 12:22 |
| raphink | if packagers could have a look at it and check their own packages | 12:23 |
| raphink | it would be a great thing for reviewers :) | 12:23 |
| raphink | if packagers checked all the points i've already listed on that page | 12:24 |
| raphink | that would make reviewing on REVU much easier | 12:24 |
| thierry | raphink : a little thing, "and check the diff has no output." you should say something more clear like "if there's no output, then the tarball are the same" nothing big, but more clear for beginner | 12:24 |
| raphink | thierry: you understand it ? | 12:25 |
| raphink | ;) | 12:25 |
| thierry | raphink : me yes, but before a MOTU told me by reviewing my package, I wouldn't have understood | 12:25 |
| raphink | it's aimed to packagers so ... but I guess I can try to make it clearer yes | 12:25 |
| Fritti | raphink: note that I just finished my first package, but if I'm understanding the 'build test / debuild' section correctly, not even a diff for {config.guess,config.sub} is allowed? | 12:25 |
| Fritti | (i have that right now, don't see a way to avoid it) | 12:26 |
| raphink | theorically no | 12:26 |
| Fritti | hmm | 12:26 |
| raphink | I am totally aware that config.guess and config.sub are often pbs from automake crapy stuff | 12:26 |
| raphink | and I have the same issues myself | 12:26 |
| raphink | say | 12:26 |
| raphink | the diff should be as small as possible | 12:26 |
| raphink | if you can't avoid it, well then we do with it | 12:27 |
| raphink | ;) | 12:27 |
| Fritti | noted | 12:27 |
| Fritti | thanks | 12:27 |
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| Fritti | if I want to submit a package to REVU, do I need to build for Dapper or for Breezy? | 12:29 |
| tseng | dapper | 12:29 |
| raphink | dapper | 12:30 |
| raphink | breezy is frozn | 12:30 |
| raphink | frozen | 12:30 |
| thierry | raphink : you could maybe change the "License" section by "License use by upstream (License file)" I've got confuse, I first tough you were talking about the debian/copyright stuff... maybe it's just me who's confused for nothing ;) | 12:30 |
| raphink | no NEW package is added to it | 12:30 |
| raphink | hi tseng btw :) | 12:30 |
| thierry | *"license used by... | 12:30 |
| raphink | I am talking about debian/copyright | 12:30 |
| raphink | ;) | 12:30 |
| thierry | raphink : well why splitting it in two? | 12:31 |
| Fritti | ok, thanks. need to set up a pbuilder environemnt for dapper then, that'll be tomorrow | 12:31 |
| Fritti | at least it works on my breezy box now :-) | 12:31 |
| raphink | thierry: oh just because I wanted debian/copyright in the debian/ section | 12:31 |
| thierry | raphink : you should put everything in debian/copyright section no? | 12:31 |
| raphink | but at first I had put it in the License section | 12:31 |
| thierry | raphink : you also don't talk about man pages... wich I discovered for my last package, are pretty important | 12:34 |
| raphink | thierry: it's not finished yet | 12:34 |
| raphink | thierry: i've only began this document today ;) | 12:34 |
| raphink | s/began/begun/ | 12:34 |
| raphink | so I will talk about man pages, and desktop files, and all :) | 12:35 |
| thierry | raphink : ok, so the stuff wich is already there seems great to me except the copyright stuff that I think should be all in one but this is understable this way too | 12:35 |
| Nafallo | sounds like another packaging guide to me :-P | 12:35 |
| raphink | Nafallo: can be, too | 12:35 |
| raphink | but I write it as a checklist | 12:36 |
| raphink | rather than a mere guide to packaging | 12:36 |
| raphink | I won't explain how to use dh_make, dh_stuff or cdbs | 12:36 |
| Nafallo | packaging cheatsheet ;-) | 12:36 |
| raphink | how to sign the package, how to run debuild or dpkg-buildpackage and so on | 12:36 |
| raphink | I'm focused on details and checking all important details | 12:36 |
| raphink | so to me it's a reviewing guide rather than a packaging one | 12:37 |
| raphink | but as I've put in the intro, it's useful for packagers too | 12:37 |
| raphink | to check their own packages | 12:37 |
| raphink | ;) | 12:37 |
| raphink | cause I think packagers should review their work properly before upload it | 12:37 |
| raphink | s/upload/uploading/ | 12:38 |
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| zyga_ | is there any tool that automatically turns .tar.bz2 into properly-named .orig.tar.gz? | 12:55 |
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| raphink | not that I know of zyga_ | 12:56 |
| raphink | bunzip2 yourpackage.tar.bz2 && gzip -9 yourpackage.tar && mv yourpackage.tar.gz yourpackage.orig.tar.gz | 12:56 |
| raphink | does it | 12:57 |
| raphink | :) | 12:57 |
| zyga_ | ;-) | 12:57 |
| zyga_ | done, I was trying to avoid mistakes if there is a know tool that does the jobs | 12:58 |
| raphink | it's good this way zyga_ | 12:58 |
| raphink | please drop a comment in debian/changelog about repackaging the upstream tarball | 12:58 |
| zyga_ | I did | 12:58 |
| raphink | good :) | 12:58 |
| zyga_ | I've updated gazpacho to .0.6.4 | 12:58 |
| zyga_ | I need to find kov to let him know ;-) | 12:59 |
| raphink | ok | 12:59 |
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| zyga_ | works great | 01:03 |
| zyga_ | :-) | 01:03 |
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| raphink | zyga_: what works great? | 01:15 |
| dholbach | good night | 01:15 |
| raphink | night dholbach :) | 01:16 |
| zyga_ | raphink: gazpacho | 01:17 |
| raphink | ah ok | 01:17 |
| === Kyral goes through GNOMEFiles and looks up new things to package | ||
| Nafallo | Kyral: gnome-reset! :-D | 01:23 |
| Nafallo | http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2006/01/24/0 | 01:24 |
| Kyral | http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=848 | 01:24 |
| Kyral | and this | 01:24 |
| Kyral | http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1020 | 01:24 |
| Nafallo | :-) | 01:26 |
| Kyral | The Advanced thing looks NICE | 01:27 |
| infinito | anyone here knows howto change the deafult email for an user, so dch takes it? | 01:27 |
| Kyral | export DEBEMAIL= | 01:27 |
| Kyral | foo@bar.com :P | 01:27 |
| Kyral | damn return key | 01:27 |
| infinito | Kyral: thanks! | 01:29 |
| Kyral | you may wanna put it in your .bash_profile | 01:30 |
| Kyral | so it gets exported everytime bash is run (like a term window) | 01:30 |
| Nafallo | DEBFULLNAME is also nice :-) | 01:31 |
| infinito | umm any idea on howto do this for global system? | 01:31 |
| Kyral | .bash_profile | 01:31 |
| Kyral | put it in there :P | 01:31 |
| infinito | thanks | 01:32 |
| raphink | any idea why this is a question for #ubuntu-motu ? | 01:32 |
| raphink | ;) | 01:32 |
| infinito | im sorry | 01:32 |
| raphink | np ;) | 01:33 |
| infinito | i know this is not the best place, but you were supposed to know the answer (as it is) | 01:33 |
| raphink | hehe | 01:34 |
| === Nafallo improves network-manager again :-P | ||
| === Nafallo uploads nm and goes to bed :-P | ||
| infinito | maybe someone can try to package alltray, which is great | 01:49 |
| raphink | maybe you can try it, even :) | 01:50 |
| raphink | infinito: ^^ | 01:50 |
| infinito | raphink: im not very good at packaging ;) | 01:51 |
| raphink | you can learn | 01:51 |
| raphink | before being good, we all have to learn :) | 01:51 |
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| raphink | infinito: we're also here to mentor new packagers ;) | 01:53 |
| infinito | cdbs is totally banned i suppose... | 01:53 |
| raphink | not at all | 01:54 |
| raphink | I use cdbs | 01:54 |
| raphink | cdbs can be very good | 01:54 |
| raphink | auto-update of debian/control through cdbs is _totally_ banned though | 01:54 |
| raphink | but that's about what is banned in cdbs ;) | 01:54 |
| raphink | I appreciate very much a clean package made with cdbs :) | 01:55 |
| infinito | one question, how do u realize what exact dependencies needs a package (both build and install)? | 01:56 |
| === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| raphink | infinito: it's often in the doc of the tarball | 02:02 |
| raphink | INSTALL and README help | 02:02 |
| raphink | infinito: you can also grep the source for includes | 02:02 |
| azeem | if it uses pkg-config, configure.in is a big help as well | 02:03 |
| infinito | and if a program depends on autotools for compiling, those should be added to control or with debhelper is enough? | 02:06 |
| raphink | if it requires autotools to build, then autotools should be in Build-Depends | 02:07 |
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| azeem | in most cases, programs do not require autotools to be actually installed | 02:07 |
| raphink | hi cyberserver | 02:08 |
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| cyberserver | hi ! ;-) | 02:08 |
| azeem | that's the whole point of having ./configure posix-shell | 02:08 |
| raphink | cyberserver: https://launchpad.net/people/motuim | 02:09 |
| raphink | that's the team for IM | 02:09 |
| raphink | and \sh is a kubuntu dev in this team cyberserver | 02:09 |
| hub | hey | 02:10 |
| raphink | hi hub | 02:10 |
| infinito | if a program uses gettext, it has any build dependecies on that? | 02:12 |
| cyberserver | raphink: Thanks for the intro, I'll look around first and I'll post some comments as soon as I feel I'm up to date with you all :-) | 02:12 |
| raphink | cyberserver: oh well MOTUs is a whole world | 02:12 |
| raphink | s/world/universe/ | 02:12 |
| cyberserver | lol | 02:12 |
| raphink | feel free to talk on here and ask questions | 02:12 |
| raphink | ;) | 02:12 |
| raphink | infinito: if it just uses it to run, then I guess it's a Depends, not a Build-Depends | 02:13 |
| hub | raphink: is it possible to review this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1472 ? | 02:13 |
| hub | raphink: I can't because I'm the packager :-) | 02:13 |
| raphink | not right now | 02:13 |
| raphink | i'm tired :( | 02:13 |
| hub | raphink: when you have some time | 02:13 |
| hub | no rush, but it has been idling | 02:13 |
| raphink | hehe I know | 02:14 |
| raphink | I have this pb with other stuff ;) | 02:14 |
| raphink | I'll review it if you review konq-kim | 02:14 |
| raphink | ;) | 02:14 |
| raphink | hehe | 02:14 |
| hub | ok | 02:14 |
| raphink | hub: did you have a look at my reviewing guide, too? | 02:14 |
| === raphink is advertising his wiki work today :) | ||
| raphink | did you read it hub ? | 02:15 |
| cyberserver | Ok... so I faced some days ago this behaviour that it may seem not what is wanted: I'v been checking the behviour of ubuntu/kubuntu when plugging/inserting removable medium (I'm trying CD's and usb pens) .. | 02:15 |
| raphink | hub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewingGuide so you can tell me what you think :) | 02:15 |
| hub | raphink: I didn't have time to read it completel | 02:15 |
| raphink | hehe | 02:15 |
| hub | but I'll do now | 02:15 |
| raphink | oh ok :) | 02:15 |
| raphink | it's not complete I'm afraid ;) | 02:15 |
| raphink | cyberserver: what is wrong? | 02:15 |
| raphink | cyberserver: what is wrong with removable medias? | 02:16 |
| cyberserver | .... I have 2 comments I would like to discuss: 1 - If you boot ubuntu with a CD already inside your drive, it will not show up in the desktop. (Haven't reproduced in kubuntu to see if same thing happens or not). Then it is harder to reach the 'umount' or 'eject' , as we need to locate the device that would be expected to be on the desktop... | 02:17 |
| cyberserver | 2 - I've tried this with kubuntu just some minutes ago: You can insert a CD and eject if by hand (pushing the cd eject button) ..... but if you choose the "open in new window", even if you close the window later, you'll need to use the 'eject' comand right-clicking the CD icon... as the 'phisical' cd eject button will not trigguer the cd ejection.... | 02:19 |
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| raphink | cyberserver: oh I thought you wanted to talk about MOTU IM stuff | 02:19 |
| raphink | cyberserver: this behaviour is a feature | 02:20 |
| raphink | and has always been in unix systems as far as I remember | 02:20 |
| raphink | a mounted cdrom cannot be ejected manually | 02:20 |
| raphink | it is not the way windows handles it | 02:20 |
| cyberserver | raphink: OOOooopsss... bad english then: I wanted to talk about usability... not do talk about usability in IM stuff :-p | 02:20 |
| raphink | but it is the way unix systems do | 02:20 |
| raphink | and macos does the same btw | 02:21 |
| raphink | it is totally normal that the eject button doesn't work when the CD has been mounted | 02:21 |
| raphink | cyberserver: does that answer ? | 02:23 |
| cyberserver | raphink: agreed.. but could this be consistent? I'm not sure if it can: a) to disable the eject button completely ( we would not be able to eject even if we just plugged in the cd) or b) Implement a timeout so that removable media would be auto-umounted after xxx seconds of inactivity ? then the eject button would worka again. | 02:24 |
| raphink | no I don't think we want that | 02:25 |
| cyberserver | raphink: I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just wondering if it would be better, or if it could be done at all | 02:25 |
| cyberserver | raphink: ok. | 02:25 |
| raphink | autounmounting devices is a weird feature imo | 02:25 |
| raphink | my mom got used to ejecting CDROMs on the desktop by right clicking on the icon | 02:25 |
| raphink | I'm sure most people can do it ;) | 02:25 |
| raphink | when I put a CD in the tray | 02:26 |
| raphink | and I mount it | 02:26 |
| hub | could be worse | 02:26 |
| raphink | I don't want it to be unmounted after an amount of time | 02:26 |
| raphink | hub: what? | 02:26 |
| hub | we could be run the autorun | 02:26 |
| cyberserver | raphink: Ok, I have no problem with that. I'll just educate people that way. I've done it once... I'll do it again! :-p | 02:26 |
| raphink | hehe | 02:26 |
| hub | the one that says to insert CD1 | 02:26 |
| hub | when the program requested CD2 | 02:26 |
| raphink | oh yes | 02:26 |
| hub | (you just inserted) | 02:27 |
| raphink | hehe | 02:27 |
| === hub has to fix his machine | ||
| raphink | cyberserver: our goal is not to make linux look like windows though ;) | 02:27 |
| raphink | and if linux systems behave this way on this matter, there is a good reason | 02:27 |
| cyberserver | raphink: agreed :-) | 02:27 |
| raphink | ;) | 02:27 |
| hub | ok | 02:28 |
| hub | tranfered upstairs | 02:28 |
| raphink | so it's a matter of educating people | 02:28 |
| raphink | which is good | 02:28 |
| hub | am I the only one to have udev issues? | 02:28 |
| raphink | by educating them to do it with CDROMs | 02:28 |
| raphink | they'll do it more easily with USBkeys | 02:28 |
| hub | bingo | 02:28 |
| hub | console fscked | 02:28 |
| raphink | while USB keys can be removed without ejecting them even when mounted (physically I mean) | 02:28 |
| raphink | and it's not good at all ;) | 02:29 |
| cyberserver | raphink: So... I guess that usb-pen "auto-sync" is not an interesting feature also? So that they dont lose the data when hot-plugging it without "safely remove" ? | 02:29 |
| cyberserver | raphink: let me rephrase: | 02:29 |
| raphink | educating people is the best way imo | 02:29 |
| raphink | cyberserver: you mean backup-ing the usb key to the HD while it's in use in case it's removed unsafely? | 02:29 |
| cyberserver | raphink: I've seen solutions where the pen would be mounted with "sync" option (If I'm not mistaken) , therefore ... | 02:30 |
| cyberserver | raphink: ... no, not that | 02:30 |
| raphink | then what? | 02:30 |
| raphink | what is this sync option? | 02:30 |
| raphink | hub: did you go through the guide? | 02:31 |
| hub | I got interrupted by $GF that want something that is on the machin that is hosed | 02:32 |
| raphink | hehe | 02:33 |
| raphink | I'm working on $GF's machine and she's sleeping | 02:33 |
| raphink | so that wouldn't happen to me | 02:33 |
| hub | raphink: it is 8:33 here | 02:33 |
| hub | and she wants stuff off MY machine | 02:34 |
| raphink | it's 2:33 here | 02:34 |
| hub | I know | 02:34 |
| raphink | oh | 02:34 |
| cyberserver | raphink: I was seing 2 options: "sync" on mount option. or forcing 'sync /dev/sda' (again, after a timeout, somewhat like in the cd). 'sync' in the fstab/mount option will make "unbuffered" writes to the device (writing to usb would become synchronous, like msdos does with floppyes). 'sync' on a command like 'sync /dev/sda' (IIRC) forces the system to flush the buffered writes to the device... | 02:34 |
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| raphink | ok | 02:36 |
| cyberserver | raphink: So I was thinking about 2 different syncs : /bin/sync (see #man sync), or sync on the fstab option | 02:36 |
| cyberserver | raphink: I will agree that neither is needed if the user is educated properly | 02:36 |
| cyberserver | raphink: And I agree that explaining the user that "we need to umount a cd" and "we need to umount a usb pen" as both are removable devices is easier | 02:38 |
| cyberserver | than explaining that cd's are one way and usb pens are another way | 02:40 |
| cyberserver | I would also would like to discuss the way konqueror handles video ... basically it doesn't handle it nicely.... | 02:51 |
| cyberserver | but I would likt to discuss tha | 02:51 |
| cyberserver | that | 02:51 |
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| bddebian | Why would dpatch try to apply from ./ ? | 03:19 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: Wake up man | 03:30 |
| Kyral | BOO! | 03:32 |
| bddebian | Heya Kyral | 03:33 |
| bddebian | Kyral: You have any idea why dpatch would try to apply in ./ ? | 03:33 |
| Kyral | nope | 03:35 |
| Kyral | I don't even know how to use DPatch :P | 03:35 |
| bddebian | Well WTF? :-) | 03:36 |
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| LaserJock | StevenK: ping? | 04:11 |
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| bddebian | Fuck I hate this time of day :-( | 04:19 |
| LaserJock | bddebian: eh? | 04:20 |
| bddebian | LaserJock: Everyone is asleep or such :-) | 04:21 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm not. I'm fixing dinner | 04:24 |
| bddebian | :-) | 04:24 |
| bddebian | I'm "fixing" cuetools :-) | 04:24 |
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| bddebian | theCore what? :-) | 04:27 |
| theCore | bddebian: what what ? :/ | 04:27 |
| theCore | bddebian, btw, hello | 04:27 |
| bddebian | You're theCore of what? :-) | 04:28 |
| bddebian | Hello :-) | 04:28 |
| theCore | bddebian, ah, theCore of my mind ! (nah, actually my nick come from the game that got me into computing ) | 04:29 |
| theCore | bddebian, Total Annihilation | 04:29 |
| bddebian | Ah, cool | 04:29 |
| LaserJock | hi theCore | 04:29 |
| theCore | LaserJock, hi | 04:30 |
| theCore | LaserJock, I'm mailing some artwork, then I will continue working the Packaging Guide | 04:31 |
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| Kyral | Showertime | 04:32 |
| LaserJock | theCore: ok great, I did a lot of work today, I will probably commit again tonight | 04:34 |
| Kyral | oh wait...I meant to say that in the Forums chan | 04:34 |
| Kyral | *red* | 04:34 |
| ajmitch | afternoon | 04:36 |
| bddebian | ajmitch!!! | 04:38 |
| LaserJock | hi ajmitch | 04:38 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: Do you have a minute to help me? | 04:38 |
| Kyral | I know we aren't supposed to touch the source without patches..but does that include patching the Makefile to use $(PREFIX)? | 04:50 |
| LaserJock | Kyral: make a patch | 04:51 |
| Kyral | just askin' :P | 04:51 |
| Kyral | CDBS here I come lol | 04:51 |
| Kyral | wait...does debhelper.mk call dh_desktop | 04:52 |
| LaserJock | Kyral: you don't need CDBS just for patching a Makefile | 05:03 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: with what? | 05:04 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: I don't know how long the laptop battery will last | 05:04 |
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| StevenK | LaserJock? | 05:25 |
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| LaserJock | StevenK: did you get your upload rights worked out? | 05:48 |
| LaserJock | StevenK: you were going to upload vnc4 for me | 05:48 |
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| crimsun | I thought I saw a StevenK upload yesterday? | 05:52 |
| crimsun | (quodlibet) | 05:53 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I saw that too so I was hoping to see vnc4 go by as well ;-) | 05:53 |
| crimsun | I can do it if he's busy; point me to the debdiff | 05:53 |
| LaserJock | He's got it | 05:54 |
| crimsun | k | 05:54 |
| LaserJock | I just would reallly like to get vnc installed soon :-) | 05:54 |
| LaserJock | I tried FreeNX but couldn't get it to work | 05:56 |
| StevenK | LaserJock: Ah. | 06:03 |
| StevenK | Yeah, well. | 06:03 |
| StevenK | vnc4 FTBFS, doko has made 2 uploads, and it includes vital parts of the XFree86 source. | 06:04 |
| StevenK | IOW, don't hold your breath. | 06:04 |
| LaserJock | StevenK: ok, I'm going to have another go at FreeNX. It's supposed to be faster. Don't sweat it ;-0 | 06:07 |
| StevenK | nfs:/srv/media 429G 368G 61G 86% /media/media | 06:08 |
| StevenK | Hrm. I think I need a new drive soon. | 06:08 |
| LaserJock | Seveas: ping? | 06:09 |
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| LaserJock | does FreeNX have to use the ssh port? | 06:25 |
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| minghua | Is the time for MOTU meeting decided yet? | 07:35 |
| ajmitch | nope | 07:35 |
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| Seveas | hub, ping | 08:02 |
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| ejofee | does the default (k)ubuntu install *also* include xterm? i want to create a .desktop script which works on both ubuntu and kubuntu. | 08:28 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, yes, by the seed list | 08:32 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: thanks | 08:33 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: where do i find the seed list? | 08:33 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds | 08:35 |
| Burgundavia | cjwatson = Kamion | 08:35 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: thanks | 08:38 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: was that a correction? | 08:38 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, no, pointing out who answered you in -devel | 08:38 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: oh, nice, thanks | 08:39 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: what do you think about my suggestion? | 08:40 |
| ejofee | (on #ubuntu-devel) | 08:40 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, sorry, don;t have enough technical knowledge to comment either way | 08:40 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: this is something that mandriva does very successfully | 08:41 |
| Burgundavia | bring it up on the mailing list with a good argument why for and why mandriva does it | 08:41 |
| Burgundavia | not just, we should do X because Y distro does it | 08:41 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: i didn't begin with "mandriva does it". i began with "this way we won't say "use gedit <path> or kwrite <path>" to the noobs". | 08:42 |
| ejofee | :) | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | avoid the word newbies and noobs | 08:43 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: why?! | 08:43 |
| Burgundavia | it is rude | 08:43 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: is it offensive? | 08:43 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: didn't know that | 08:44 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia: what should i use instead (if i want to express the same idea)? | 08:44 |
| minghua | new users? | 08:44 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia, minghua: i wonder why a "newbye" would sound rude. | 08:44 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, simply don't talk about new users. Talk about user expectations and how this might impact users of different skill levels | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | think of it like a sales pitch | 08:45 |
| minghua | ejofee: I am not sure about "newbie" either, but "noobs" are sure offensive AFAIK | 08:45 |
| ejofee | Burgundavia, minghua: thanks | 08:46 |
| Burgundavia | ejofee, np | 08:46 |
| Burgundavia | noobs also sounds unprofessional | 08:46 |
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| Gloubiboulga | morning | 08:46 |
| minghua | It's Burgundavia providing advice, I am just interrupting :-) | 08:46 |
| ejofee | minghua :) | 08:48 |
| ejofee | "apt-get install openssh-server" also runs sshd by default? | 09:16 |
| minghua | I suppose so | 09:16 |
| minghua | that's the debian way of thinking: "if you install a server package, of course you want to run it; if you don't want to run it anymore, remove it" | 09:17 |
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| Tonio_ | hi there | 09:56 |
| ajmitch | hello Tonio_ | 09:56 |
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| ajmitch | sigh, automatix hits digg.com | 10:18 |
| minghua | ajmitch: maybe automatrix can have some positive effect eventually | 10:22 |
| minghua | at least no one is complaining about automatrix on ubuntu-devel list yet :-P | 10:23 |
| ajmitch | we haven't been commanded by irate users to package it yet | 10:23 |
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| siretart | hi | 12:00 |
| siretart | ajmitch: I think there are some good points in automatrix, but there is also a lot of crackful stuff | 12:01 |
| siretart | ajmitch: I think it would be perhaps best if the author would work with a couple of MOTUs to get it in a less crackful state in order to include it to ubuntu | 12:02 |
| ajmitch | yeah | 12:10 |
| ajmitch | though I don't see it happening soon | 12:10 |
| siretart | sadly, yes | 12:10 |
| ajmitch | ah, I see sabdfl is online :) | 12:11 |
| ajmitch | siretart: what have you been up to this week? | 12:12 |
| ajmitch | siretart: also, have you worked on those other specs from UBZ lately? | 12:13 |
| siretart | ajmitch: oh, sorry, I was too focused on other stuff, sadly :( | 12:13 |
| ajmitch | yeah I understand | 12:13 |
| ajmitch | I just got back to selinux lately | 12:14 |
| siretart | I really need to focus on my UBZ specs (read: get revu2 to do something) :( | 12:14 |
| ajmitch | yes, I want to have time for it also | 12:14 |
| ajmitch | but I also want selinux to be useful by feature freeze :( | 12:14 |
| siretart | I also worked on aspectc++ on amd64 (I got it working somehow), and got co maintainer in debian for oops | 12:14 |
| siretart | I understand | 12:14 |
| ajmitch | my main task now is trying to get a decent policy package together | 12:15 |
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| ajmitch | which is the bulk of the work that RH employs people fulltime for :) | 12:15 |
| siretart | :) | 12:16 |
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| ajmitch | LCA has been bad for my ubuntu productivity | 12:56 |
| ajmitch | morning \sh | 12:56 |
| === ajmitch blames Lathiat | ||
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| Mithrandir | hi ajmitch | 12:58 |
| ajmitch | hi Mithrandir | 12:58 |
| === ajmitch really needs to understand make better to figure out what is broken on this policy | ||
| \sh | moins | 01:03 |
| \sh | fixing broken java software | 01:04 |
| \sh | oh wow...I'm insane | 01:04 |
| Treenaks | \sh: we know ;) | 01:04 |
| \sh | Treenaks: this is really serious...I don't know java :) | 01:05 |
| ajmitch | \sh: we'll swap - you fix this selinux policy for me :) | 01:05 |
| \sh | ajmitch: dude, I'm fixing broken java software on a suse linux..are you sure, you want me to fix the selinux policy for you? | 01:06 |
| ajmitch | ah, I'll pass :) | 01:06 |
| === Treenaks hands \sh the cyanide capsule | ||
| ajmitch | \sh: I'm just trying to track through a makefile at the moment, before I dig into the m4 macros | 01:06 |
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| ajmitch | oh this is worrying | 01:44 |
| ajmitch | awk is giving different results on the same input, on 2 machines running dapper | 01:44 |
| ajmitch | same locale.. | 01:45 |
| ajmitch | aha | 01:45 |
| ajmitch | one is gawk, the other mawk | 01:45 |
| === ajmitch stabs | ||
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| ajmitch | and that was all that was needed to get policy built | 01:49 |
| ajmitch | sigh | 01:49 |
| StevenK | ajmitch: You're up late. | 01:51 |
| ajmitch | yes, I wanted to get this working :) | 01:52 |
| ajmitch | only a few weeks until feature freeze, so I've got to move fast | 01:52 |
| ajmitch | libsepol.verify_module_requirements: Module dmesg's global requirements were not met: type/attribute dmesg_exec_t | 01:53 |
| ajmitch | libsemanage.semanage_link_sandbox: Link packages failed | 01:53 |
| ajmitch | yay! | 01:53 |
| ajmitch | ok, I go sleep now | 01:56 |
| \sh | grmpf... | 02:07 |
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| phanatic | hi people | 02:29 |
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| siretart | https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+poll/next-meeting-05 | 02:34 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+poll/next-meeting-05 | ||
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| zakame | evening MOTUs | 02:45 |
| phanatic | hi zakame | 02:45 |
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| phanatic | zakame: could you have a look at this one: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1579 you've commented once on an earlier version | 02:48 |
| zakame | phanatic: checking :) | 02:49 |
| phanatic | zakame: thx | 02:50 |
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| zakame | wb ogra | 03:13 |
| zakame | hm I notice I'm not yet in LP's motu (bugs) team, can an admin add me? :) | 03:15 |
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| zakame | wb Amaranth | 03:19 |
| Amaranth | wb? | 03:19 |
| zakame | welcome back | 03:20 |
| === Amaranth was last here 12 hours ago :P | ||
| zakame | heh | 03:20 |
| zakame | hm LP down again? | 03:21 |
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| Amaranth | works here | 03:26 |
| zakame | waah must be my dialup acting up :( | 03:27 |
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| zakame | wb Nafallo | 03:43 |
| Nafallo | thanks zakame :-) | 03:44 |
| === Nafallo has his new mobile doing the initial charging. | ||
| Nafallo | is 6 hours the correct time for such things? | 03:49 |
| Treenaks | Nafallo: I usually let it charge overnight | 03:49 |
| zakame | same here | 03:50 |
| zakame | 9 to 9 hours iirc | 03:50 |
| Nafallo | hmm | 03:50 |
| zakame | er, that should be 6 to 9 | 03:50 |
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| Nafallo | there is nothing written anywhere about this in the manual :-P | 03:50 |
| Nafallo | baah, 6 hours is a lot when you just want to start playing with it :-P | 03:53 |
| Nafallo | lol, my old mobile moo'd at me! | 03:57 |
| Nafallo | was my girlfriend calling :-P | 03:57 |
| zakame | lol | 04:02 |
| zakame | hehe | 04:03 |
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| bddebian | Heya gang | 04:08 |
| Nafallo | morning bddebian | 04:09 |
| bddebian | Hello Nafallo | 04:09 |
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| bddebian | Heya crimsun | 04:25 |
| crimsun | 'morning, bddebian | 04:25 |
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| === Kyral wonders if he should file a bug on xfce4-terminal | ||
| crimsun | sure | 04:56 |
| Kyral | the wierd problem I have with Screen only happens on Xfce4 Terminal | 04:57 |
| Kyral | and not on GNOME-Terminal | 04:57 |
| crimsun | what sort? | 04:58 |
| Kyral | uuh yanno how it defaults to "Auto-Detect" for what the backspace key does? | 04:58 |
| crimsun | the ctrl+h issue? | 04:58 |
| Kyral | yah | 04:59 |
| crimsun | that seems to be a screen issue | 04:59 |
| Kyral | noo....doesn't happen in GNOME-Terminal | 04:59 |
| crimsun | same thing occurred with rxvt-unicode | 04:59 |
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| Kyral | so file in Screen? | 04:59 |
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| crimsun | (trying to find the issue) | 05:00 |
| Kyral | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/screen/+bug/29787 | 05:02 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 29787 in screen: "Not detecting Backspace correctly" [Normal,Unconfirmed] | 05:02 |
| Kyral | Feel free to modify it | 05:02 |
| crimsun | Ubugtu: bug 3690 | 05:04 |
| Ubugtu | (bug <abbreviation> <number>) -- Look up bug <number> in the bugtracker associated with <abbreviation>. | 05:04 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 3690 in rxvt-unicode: "backspace does not work in screen." [Normal,Rejected] http://launchpad.net/bugs/3690 | 05:04 |
| Kyral | hmm | 05:04 |
| Kyral | why was it rejected? | 05:04 |
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| Kyral | hmm | 05:05 |
| crimsun | it's not a bug, it's a configuration detail | 05:05 |
| === Kyral falls down | ||
| Kyral | that sounds so close to the "Its not a bug, its a feature!" Response | 05:05 |
| Kyral | Feel free to reject my bug then... | 05:06 |
| crimsun | except in this case it very much is a compile-time option /and/ a configuration issue | 05:06 |
| crimsun | no need, you can close it or keep it as you wish | 05:06 |
| Kyral | so? *blank look* | 05:06 |
| Kyral | I'll drop its priorty to minor | 05:06 |
| crimsun | I'm not particularly keen on generating a merge delta just for that compile-time option; see if it's filed upstream (Debian and/or schorp) | 05:07 |
| Kyral | can I go to the bathroom first? :P | 05:08 |
| crimsun | no :p | 05:08 |
| === crimsun kids, of course | ||
| Kyral | screw you! My bowels take orders from no one! Even myself! | 05:08 |
| Kyral | ;P | 05:08 |
| bddebian | Hmm | 05:08 |
| Kyral | back | 05:17 |
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| Kyral | Where do people get those "Powered By" images... | 05:24 |
| Nafallo | gimp? :-) | 05:24 |
| Kyral | lol | 05:25 |
| Kyral | I somehow thought that there was like a massive website with them lol | 05:25 |
| Kyral | http://www.zwahlendesign.ch/en/node/19 | 05:26 |
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| Kyral | Good on the guy for GPLing them! | 05:26 |
| Kyral | http://www.zwahlendesign.ch/images/badges2/toocoolforie_80x15.png <--LOL | 05:28 |
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| Gloubiboulga | slomo, I've reuploaded libswitch http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1616 | 06:15 |
| Gloubiboulga | if you got time to review it... | 06:16 |
| lucas | hi motus | 06:21 |
| lucas | siretart: what's the status regarding backups on tiber ? | 06:21 |
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| lucas | ogra: have we received an answer from Kamion regarding UVF exc requests ? | 06:26 |
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| slomo | Gloubiboulga: later, ok? :) | 07:27 |
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| bmonty | hey LaserJock | 07:39 |
| LaserJock | hi bmonty | 07:39 |
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| robotgeek | LaserJock: I contacted the pyrobotics folks, they asked me to go ahead. | 07:43 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: very good | 07:43 |
| robotgeek | i havent heard anything from the debian ITP guy though | 07:43 |
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| robotgeek | LaserJock: should i go ahead and package it, or wait for the guy to contact me? | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: I would go ahead and start. That ITP is really old. If you don't hear from him by the time your done maybe you could email debian-mentors or something | 07:48 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock: okay, i'll get started then | 07:49 |
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| Gloubiboulga | slomo, ok :) | 07:54 |
| slomo | Gloubiboulga: soname is still unfixed? :( | 07:54 |
| Gloubiboulga | ? | 07:55 |
| Gloubiboulga | it's fixed now | 07:55 |
| zyga | hi | 07:55 |
| zyga | can someone remind me when do we sync stuff from unstable that is already in debian and ubuntu but debian has a newer version? | 07:55 |
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| siretart | zyga: after dapper release | 07:56 |
| slomo | Gloubiboulga: hmm... i'll take a closer look and don't trust the debdiff :) | 07:56 |
| zyga | siretart: we're alredy past the freeze? | 07:56 |
| Gloubiboulga | slomo, the package is built against a new tarball | 07:57 |
| siretart | zyga: yepp | 07:58 |
| ajmitch | morning all | 07:58 |
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| bddebian | Heya ajmitch | 07:58 |
| siretart | outside it is -5 degrees.. *freezing*.. | 07:58 |
| slomo | hi ajmitch | 07:58 |
| slomo | siretart: -9 here ;) | 07:58 |
| siretart | morning ajmitch! | 07:58 |
| siretart | slomo: yesterday we had -14 in the morning :/ | 07:59 |
| slomo | Gloubiboulga: oh... autotools and libtool this time :) | 07:59 |
| siretart | ajmitch has perhaps +25 or something... :/ | 07:59 |
| zyga | siretart: -28 in the night here yesterday | 07:59 |
| ajmitch | siretart: not quite, it's just 8am :) | 07:59 |
| zyga | (note - not +) | 07:59 |
| Gloubiboulga | slomo, yep! | 08:00 |
| ajmitch | it *might* get up to 25 or so here today | 08:00 |
| siretart | zyga: so we agree that we are in freeze ;) | 08:00 |
| siretart | ajmitch: hehe | 08:00 |
| zyga | siretart: most definitly | 08:00 |
| === ajmitch would love to have some caffeine | ||
| siretart | what do you think about using launchpad polls for our next meeting date? | 08:01 |
| ajmitch | still waiting for it to open ;) | 08:02 |
| ajmitch | how annoying, I'll miss the dapper status meeting again | 08:03 |
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| siretart | ajmitch: I should have read the documentation for polls. nothing warns you from setting a start date in the past, which is nonsense, since you don't get the possibility to set any options AT ALL! | 08:04 |
| ajmitch | siretart: crack | 08:05 |
| ajmitch | file a bug! | 08:05 |
| siretart | I should do so. yes | 08:06 |
| ajmitch | I think I should go & get ready so I can get to LCA by 9 | 08:06 |
| ajmitch | I'll bbl :) | 08:06 |
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| Kyral | hmm | 09:33 |
| Kyral | can I patch mysql-server? | 09:33 |
| azeem | patch it for what? | 09:34 |
| azeem | (it is in main) | 09:34 |
| Kyral | lemme dig up the bug... | 09:34 |
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| Kyral | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0/+bug/29786 | 09:40 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 29786 in mysql-dfsg-5.0: "Rebooting breaks MySQL-Server" [Normal,Unconfirmed] | 09:40 |
| \sh | it's good to know, that I can always break things in a commercial environment.... | 09:41 |
| \sh | it's good to know, that I have a work again | 09:41 |
| Treenaks | Kyral: WONTFIX -> Use postgresql :P | 09:41 |
| ogra | \sh, fixed job now ? | 09:42 |
| \sh | ogra: no....but do you want to work for less then 1500 bucks per week (week = 5days)? | 09:42 |
| ogra | i do :P | 09:42 |
| \sh | ogra: hehe..well...Today i was involved in more then just "fixing suse"..right now I'm working on some java stuff for mobile services, and found a serious regression in a commercial java lib | 09:43 |
| \sh | ogra: so the cto decided, that it's good to have me onsite :0 | 09:44 |
| \sh | ogra: and I have the chance, to roll out ubuntu in this environment.. | 09:44 |
| ogra | :) | 09:44 |
| ogra | yes, you said so on the phone, thts really cool :) | 09:44 |
| \sh | and the people are quite nice there..small company, but good people.. | 09:44 |
| \sh | ogra: thx to george, that he has no time to work on it in a regular timeframe. so he thought about me, and asked me to do it :) | 09:45 |
| \sh | and I had my second fun day :) yesterday I killed postfix and cyrus imapd to work properly again :) and today I just killed openxchange and reinstalled it with a new version and it works again :) | 09:46 |
| \sh | everybody is happy :) | 09:47 |
| ogra | :) | 09:47 |
| \sh | and it's a good feeling, to know that somebody needs you :) | 09:47 |
| \sh | ogra: btw...when are you leaving for london? | 09:48 |
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| siretart | Kyral: I assume that mysql bug is because /var/run is tempfs on dapper. The init script needs to take care about creating /var/run/mysql and friends | 09:49 |
| ogra | sunday morning | 09:49 |
| \sh | ogra: for one week, right? give me a call when you are back in germany :) so we can have a beer :) | 09:49 |
| ogra | i'll be back the following sunday evening | 09:50 |
| ogra | 5th or so | 09:50 |
| robotgeek | hi, i have a noob question. if a package i'm building has several dependencies x y z, and say package y provides x and z, it's just enough for me to mention package y as build-depends? | 09:51 |
| \sh | ogra: cool....let's meet the weekend after the 5th | 09:55 |
| ogra | lets see, my parents expect me to come in the next weeks ... | 09:55 |
| \sh | ogra: k..just give me a ring :) | 09:56 |
| \sh | s/ring/call | 09:57 |
| \sh | / | 09:57 |
| ogra | yup, will do | 09:57 |
| \sh | ok...time to go to bed...need to be early in the office.. | 09:58 |
| \sh | cu tomorrow | 09:58 |
| ogra | ciao | 09:58 |
| siretart | sleep well \sh | 09:58 |
| \sh | siretart: you too :) and good luck with the backup :) | 09:58 |
| siretart | hehe | 09:59 |
| crimsun | robotgeek: err, build-depends? | 10:00 |
| robotgeek | crimsun: or anything, actually | 10:00 |
| crimsun | robotgeek: it's always a good idea to specify the minimum set of build dependencies | 10:01 |
| robotgeek | crimsun: okay, i'll keep that in mind | 10:01 |
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| robotgeek | LaserJock: hah, i think i am going to have a funtime. damn thing doesn't compile | 10:25 |
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| siretart | crimsun: around? | 10:39 |
| crimsun | siretart: pong | 10:40 |
| siretart | crimsun: I just prepared a new wpasupplicant upload, featuring the wpa_gui binary | 10:40 |
| siretart | crimsun: I noticed that wpasupplicant is still at debhelper compat 1. I upgraded it to 5, making /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf a conffile | 10:41 |
| siretart | crimsun: do you see problems with this? | 10:41 |
| crimsun | siretart: nope, though I historically shy from wpa_gui because it wasn't in Debian (though I know about the bug). Sounds good to me. | 10:41 |
| siretart | crimsun: because of the extra qt dependency? | 10:43 |
| crimsun | siretart: right | 10:43 |
| siretart | hm | 10:43 |
| siretart | I still think that it is a good idea, because I think the default use case for wpasupplicant will be notebooks, which are used for work | 10:44 |
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| siretart | I don't know many servers running wpa | 10:44 |
| siretart | crimsun: if you are interested in splitting wpa_gui to an package of its own, I'd suggest doing this in debian directly, the Maintainer asked for help (comaintainers) anyway | 10:45 |
| crimsun | I'm fairly neutral on the subject; I can see reasons for wanting wpa_gui in a separate package (wpasupplicant-gui?) | 10:45 |
| siretart | uploaded | 10:47 |
| Seveas | wpa_gui will be obsolete relatively soon-ish once network manager properly supports WPA | 11:05 |
| Seveas | that's almost in place now | 11:05 |
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| siretart | Seveas: define 'almost' please | 11:14 |
| Seveas | siretart, wpa implemented and being tested, 802.1x planned after wpa/wpa2 is thoroughly tested (90% of the code for it is already in the wpa part) | 11:14 |
| Seveas | It will most likely be a dapper+1 thing, but if there's a pretty feature complete release before/in march I'm going to push really hard to get it at least into universe | 11:16 |
| siretart | I see | 11:16 |
| ajmitch | hi | 11:16 |
| === ajmitch really really wants nm with wpa :) | ||
| === Seveas too | ||
| siretart | Seveas: does it already support certificates or just PSK? what about PEAP, LEAP, and all those other shiny authentication methods? | 11:17 |
| siretart | ajmitch: we are using it at 'our' internet cafe, and TBH, it annoys me | 11:17 |
| Seveas | http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2006-January/msg00138.html | 11:17 |
| Seveas | siretart, for now just PSK, as stated in that mail | 11:17 |
| Seveas | I need PEAP too :) | 11:18 |
| siretart | Seveas: I see. so thats what they mean with '802.1x support' | 11:18 |
| Seveas | yes | 11:19 |
| Seveas | everything that does certificates is 802.1x | 11:19 |
| siretart | strange definition | 11:21 |
| siretart | afair peap is without certificates, just username/password, no? | 11:22 |
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