[12:40] <robotgeek> i gotta reboot and try out my new USB 2.0 card, brb 
[01:08] <robotgeek> yup, it works
[01:09] <jsgotangco> good morning
[01:09] <robotgeek> it's evening here, but morning jsgotangco 
[01:10] <LaserJock> morning jsgotangco, evening robotgeek. It's afternoon here ;-)
[01:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:16] <LaserJock> umm, any kubuntu docs people about?
[01:17] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:17] <robotgeek> yeah, i'm just starting out, if that counts
[01:17] <jsgotangco> me for instance :)
[01:18] <LaserJock> so will the generic docs show up in the KDE help?
[01:19] <jsgotangco> you mean generic upstream?
[01:20] <LaserJock> no
[01:20] <LaserJock> I was actually thinking of the Packaging Guide 
[01:20] <jsgotangco> we can include that of course
[01:21] <jsgotangco> on KHelpCenter, we get a separate folder that contains all Kubuntu docs
[01:21] <jsgotangco> and we can put a hotlink from Konqueror
[01:21] <jsgotangco> on the frontpage
[01:22] <LaserJock> hmm, so would the packaging guide have to be built in the kubuntu makefile?
[01:22] <LaserJock> right now it is only done in the ubuntu makefile, I think
[01:23] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, i don't know i think its best to consult Riddell about it
[01:23] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[01:24] <LaserJock> I just don't want the packaging guide for Ubuntu users and not for Kubuntu
[01:24] <jsgotangco> that would be nice
[01:24] <LaserJock> since it is "generic" ;-)
[01:25] <jsgotangco> kde docs are always html btw
[01:25] <robotgeek> LaserJock: did mention that one of the programs is being a PITA
[01:25] <LaserJock> robotgeek: ?
[01:25] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, we can ask Riddell to upload the packaging guide as well
[01:26] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: fine, I was just in KDE and noticed it wasn't there and got to thinking...
[01:26] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i was trying to get player2.0 compiled, but it's got a lot of bugs, i think. it won't compile without tweaking , so i am going to skip that
[01:29] <LaserJock> robotgeek: bummer, maybe there is a reason why it isn't in Debian already ;-)
[01:29] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i was able to compile the 1.x series, so i'm going to stick with that. 
[01:29] <LaserJock> robotgeek: ok
[01:32] <robotgeek> LaserJock: we can include LGPL code?
[01:34] <robotgeek> LaserJock: if at any point you feel like tell me to RTFM< please do so :)
[01:34] <LaserJock> robotgeek: yeah, LGPL should be fine
[05:13] <jsgotangco> sorry :)
[05:13] <LaserJock> bad jsgotangco
[05:13] <LaserJock> ;-)
[05:13] <Burgundavia> ChangeDefaultOperatingSystemAtBoot or ChangeDefaultOperatingSystemAtStartup ?
[05:13] <Burgundavia> for grub default os
[05:13] <jsgotangco> what a horrible title
[05:13] <Burgundavia> what do you suggest?
[05:14] <Burgundavia> I am trying to rename ChangeDefaultOperatingSystem
[05:14] <jsgotangco> ChangeOSDefault?
[05:14] <LaserJock> or ChangeDefaultOS
[05:14] <jsgotangco> yeah that's better
[05:14] <Burgundavia> what about  GrubHowto/ChangeDefaultOS ?
[05:15] <jsgotangco> ChangeDefaultOS is more intuitive
[05:15] <Burgundavia> make it a subpage of grub to clear identify it with grub
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yeah that could work
[05:15] <Burgundavia> done
[05:54] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, jsgotangco you use inkscape?
[05:54] <jsgotangco> not that much
[05:54] <Burgundavia> oik
[05:57] <LaserJock> not really, I'm a scientist, not an artist ;-)
[05:57] <LaserJock> gnuplot is my graphics creation tool
[05:58] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:59] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, what do you think of using mediawiki markup on the help wiki?
[05:59] <Burgundavia> not the engine, just he markup
[06:01] <LaserJock> I'm markup neutral ;-) I'm not very good with anything
[06:01] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, mediawiki markup allows us to attract new people, possibly at the expense of some developers
[06:02] <Burgundavia> as wikipedia is the 600 lb gorilla in the wiki business
[06:02] <Burgundavia> it really bugged me having to switch
[06:02] <Burgundavia> I worry that most people won't stick with it like I did
[06:03] <LaserJock> so does wikipedia use mediawiki ?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:03] <Burgundavia> in fact, mediawiki was and is built for it
[06:04] <LaserJock> and we use moin, right?
[06:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:04] <LaserJock> and people seem to not like moin as much. I don't get it
[06:04] <Burgundavia> moin does a few thing nicer and is better for developers but sucks for presentation docs
[06:04] <Burgundavia> it is not that they are not possible, it is just that they are harder
[06:05] <Burgundavia> trivial things in mediawiki are harder in moin, and vice versa, but the more common things are harder in moin
[06:06] <Burgundavia> plus CamelCase and implicit linking sound great but they you descend into links that should be and arent and links that are and shouldn't
[06:06] <Burgundavia> however, mediawiki is php
[06:06] <LaserJock> so is it easier to edit with mediawiki?
[06:06] <LaserJock> oh, I've heard php is evil, but I don't know anything about it :-)
[06:07] <Burgundavia> they are about equal for everything but css support and tables
[06:07] <Burgundavia> mediawiki has much better css and table support
[06:07] <Burgundavia> oh, and image support in moin sucks
[06:07] <Burgundavia> the basic editing is about the same
[06:08] <Burgundavia> there is no compelling reason to switch the main wiki over, but for a help wiki with a different class of editor, there is
[06:09] <LaserJock> but if developers like moin better wouldn't that mean it would be better suited to the help wiki? or am I wrong?
[06:09] <Burgundavia> no, because help is written by and for users
[06:10] <Burgundavia> the other thing that moin makes hard is communication
[06:10] <LaserJock> oh, so what do you mean by developer then?
[06:10] <Burgundavia> mediawiki assumes that all communication is going to happen within the wiki, via talk pages
[06:10] <Burgundavia> developers are people like Kamion
[06:10] <Burgundavia> or the MOTU people
[06:10] <Burgundavia> moin assumes, by default, that editors have other communication channels
[06:11] <Burgundavia> something that is true for say the MOTU, but is totally wrong for us
[06:11] <LaserJock> ahhh, ok
[06:11] <Burgundavia> downsides to mediawiki, aside from php, are that is a sql based, not flat file
[06:12] <Burgundavia> it is also somewhat slower than moin
[06:12] <Burgundavia> it doesn't have a few cool features, such as dynamic searches listed within pages
[06:12] <Burgundavia> and moin 1.5 has a wysiwyg editor, mediawiki does not
[06:14] <Burgundavia> so it boils down to a pretty murky decision with some serious drawbacks on either side
[06:14] <LaserJock> yeah, to bad you can't take the best about both and combine them ;-)
[06:15] <Burgundavia> indeed
[06:15] <Burgundavia> I want the features on mediaiwki on a python based moin
[06:15] <Burgundavia> I heard from the develoeprs that we should be able to hack our moin to do some of waht I want/think we need
[06:16] <Burgundavia> such as interwiki communication and dropping camelcase
[06:16] <LaserJock> what is camelcase?
[06:17] <Burgundavia> ThisIsCamelCase
[06:17] <LaserJock> oh
[06:17] <Burgundavia> it is tied to implicit linking, where ThisIsLinked but this is not
[06:17] <LaserJock> what would be an example of interwiki communication?
[06:17] <Burgundavia> implicit linking has major drawbacks, such as linking things you don't and forcing you to link other things
[06:18] <Burgundavia> intrawiki would be a better term
[06:18] <Burgundavia> in mediawiki, if I edit you talk page, the next page you view will tell you that someone has left a message for you
[06:18] <Burgundavia> across any you view
[06:19] <Burgundavia> oh, talk pages, a major lacking in moin that is not easily fixed
[06:19] <LaserJock> so discussion is done on the /talk pages right?
[06:19] <Burgundavia> all pages in mediawiki have talk pages associated with them
[06:19] <Burgundavia> actually Talk:
[06:19] <Burgundavia> mediawiki has namespaces, moin does not
[06:19] <Burgundavia> such as Wikipedia: Category:, etc.
[06:19] <LaserJock> oh, well that would be cool to have
[06:20] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1937_births <-- that is a page in the namespace of Category
[06:20] <Burgundavia> it allows for easy searching, because you can easily exclude everything but the Main namespace (those pages with no Blah: before them0
[06:21] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Burgundavia <-- me on wikipedia
[06:21] <Burgundavia> observe the User: prefix
[06:21] <LaserJock> oh, that cool be really useful
[06:21] <LaserJock> um could be really useful
[06:21] <Burgundavia> indeed. The moin devs don't see it that way
[06:22] <Burgundavia> again, Namespaces are only useful if you need to differentiate content, such as in a encyclopedia
[06:22] <Burgundavia> for developers they are only marginally useful
[06:22] <Burgundavia> but having all specs at Spec: would be nice
[06:23] <LaserJock> yeah, could you have all MOTU related pages at MOTU: ?
[06:23] <Burgundavia> ya
[06:23] <Burgundavia> you can have 64k namespaces I think
[06:23] <Burgundavia> the other thing I like to point out is that we are the *only* distro to do help in a moin wiki
[06:23] <LaserJock> that's cool. I have a hard time getting people to use the MOTU namespace
[06:23] <Burgundavia> fedora uses it moin wiki only for developers
[06:24] <Burgundavia> *its
[06:24] <Burgundavia> http://beaglewiki.org/Main_Page <-- mediawiki
[06:24] <Burgundavia> http://tango-project.org/Tango_Desktop_Project <-- likewise
[06:25] <Burgundavia> you can do this moin too, but then end up with camelcase or force it out, like the main ubuntu website
[06:25] <LaserJock> wow, those don't even look like wikis
[06:26] <Burgundavia> nor does the ubuntu website
[06:27] <Burgundavia> the thing is, the amount of hacking to make moin do useful things, at what point do you say, is this worth it?
[06:27] <Burgundavia> mdke and jsgotangco likely disagree with me on a move away from moin
[06:29] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to work on a mediawiki wiki and see what its like, so far I've just used the ubuntu wiki.
[06:29] <LaserJock> but I see what your talking about
[06:31] <Burgundavia> I have spent a lot of time thinking about the problems I have run into and how we have completely failed to build a community around the wiki
[06:32] <Burgundavia> and how trivial things are made more complex
[06:33] <Burgundavia> good night, robitaille 
[06:34] <robitaille> hi Burgundavia
[06:41] <jsgotangco> why move away from moin?
[06:42] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, for whole host of reasons
[06:42] <jsgotangco> you're going to convince the webteam to move to mw?
[06:42] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no
[06:42] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am only talking about the help wiki for anything
[06:43] <jsgotangco> help wiki is a different wiki?
[06:43] <Burgundavia> for the markup, it allows us to tap into the knowledge of wikipedia and copy from USDF
[06:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it will be
[06:43] <jsgotangco> where are you puttin git?
[06:43] <Burgundavia> as for the engine itself, there are some nice features we could us
[06:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, don't follow
[06:44] <jsgotangco> where are you putting the new wiki?
[06:44] <Burgundavia> currently there is already a moin install at help.ubutu.com
[06:44] <Burgundavia> mdke and myself were discussing how best to move the pages
[06:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you approve of the idea of moving all the documentation to a help wiki?
[06:47] <jsgotangco> i dunno...and the current wiki becomes just a collaborative wiki?
[06:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:48] <Burgundavia> and current wiki keeps all the user pages
[06:48] <jsgotangco> dunno if that will work :/ people will still use the current wiki
[06:48] <Burgundavia> that is a social problem that can be solved
[06:48] <jsgotangco> oh?
[06:48] <Burgundavia> yes, through telling people and widely advertising the new wiki
[06:49] <LaserJock> hmm, but wouldn't mediawiki work better for a collaborative wiki?
[06:50] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, not for a developer collaborative wiki
[06:50] <jsgotangco> mw is nice for a content-driven wiki
[06:51] <Burgundavia> yes, like a help one, or an encyclopedia
[06:52] <Burgundavia> given that mediawiki is likely to hit main for dapper+1, we should consider a move then
[06:52] <Burgundavia> the people at gnomesupport.org moved
[07:03] <LaserJock> we could do a poll on launchpad ;-)
[08:57] <mdke> LaserJock_away, yeah sounds fine
[08:59] <mdke> Burgundavia, even if I agreed with moving away from moin (which I don't ;)), it doesn't matter, it's not happening
[09:00] <mdke> Ubuntu now has a massive moin wiki farm, if we want hosting, we can't just say "use other software for this one"
[09:00] <mdke> s/Ubuntu/Canonical
[09:02] <mdke> having two sets of software for people to learn would be bad too
[09:04] <mdke> hmm
[09:04] <mdke> hasn't Shirish Agarwal sent the same request twice now?
[09:06] <jsgotangco> mmm?
[09:06] <mdke> "please can we have moin 1.5"
[09:06] <jsgotangco> ahh
[09:06] <jsgotangco> i remember that
[09:06] <mdke> it's not that hard to learn the markup >_<
[09:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:08] <jsgotangco> wiki markup is terribly siple
[09:08] <jsgotangco> simple
[09:09] <mdke> yep
[09:09] <mdke> -> work
[09:13] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it is not that it is not simple. It is that it is different, sometimes in very very odd ways
[09:57] <bustacap> any news on whether or not the scheduled DocTeamMeeting is going ahead tomorrow?
[09:58] <bustacap> but it was updated on the 15th (things change)
[10:01] <jsgotangco> its there so it should happen
[10:01] <jsgotangco> most of the members are online during that time
[10:15] <bustacap> great, I'll check the conversion to AEST, I should be there as well..
[10:17] <mdke> thanks for that patch bustacap 
[10:17] <mdke> nice work
[10:17] <bustacap> no worries mdke..
[10:18] <bustacap> I checked too - not in yet :) (care factor = 0)
[10:18] <mdke> it's in
[10:18] <mdke> revision number 2309
[10:22] <bustacap> oh ok, so http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch01.html doesn't represent the current copy?
[10:22] <mdke> no, that's updated once per day
[10:24] <bustacap> cool, what about the agenda for the meeting at 22:00 UTC, is the desktop guide info still relevant.. (I would like to place an agenda item on the wiki page)
[10:26] <mdke> i think so
[10:26] <bustacap> oh ok, I will just add my item under the existing stuff.
[10:26] <mdke> tbh the main maintainer has kinda dropped out recently, so we were waiting on him to discuss them
[10:26] <mdke> now he's dropped out, we can go ahead and sort things out
[10:34] <bustacap> well Matt, that could be a hot topic at the meeting..
[10:35] <mdke> hmm
[10:35] <bustacap> I am glad the meeting isn't on any earlier, it's a stretch after a session of Friday beers to get up at 8am on a Sat morning..
[10:35] <bustacap> btw, I have added my addition to the agenda..
[10:35] <mdke> i see that
[10:35] <mdke> i don't quite understand it tho
[10:35] <mdke> what is the suggestion?
[10:37] <bustacap> ok, how about now? ("Ubuntu Document Storage Facility (UDSF) Integration with Official Ubuntu Documentation")
[10:38] <mdke> there's a couple of things about this
[10:38] <mdke> first of all, there is a slight problem of licensing. the UDSF guys have made their wiki "public domain" so that we can copy stuff
[10:39] <bustacap> isn't the ubuntu wiki PD?
[10:39] <mdke> it will be
[10:39] <bustacap> oh ok
[10:39] <mdke> the problem is that the forums are not actually licensed at all
[10:39] <bustacap> I am out of my league when it comes to doco licensing.. so no comment on this area..
[10:39] <mdke> so copying stuff from the forum to the UDSF and making it public domain is a license infringement
[10:40] <bustacap> oh..
[10:40] <mdke> s/license infringement/copyright infringement
[10:40] <mdke> at least in theory
[10:40] <mdke> in reality, no one gives a damn
[10:40] <bustacap> mdke, we have a saying in Australia - "same diff" - short for same difference - basically same thing, it doesn't matter..
[10:40] <bustacap> yeah..
[10:41] <mdke> we don't have that saying in law tho
[10:41] <bustacap> haha
[10:41] <mdke> anyhow
[10:41] <mdke> apart from that, there is no social barrier to integration
[10:41] <mdke> they are happy for us to copy stuff
[10:41] <bustacap> my view on the UDSF HowTo issue is that there should be a little more time spent and the documents should be originally created in the Ubuntu wiki
[10:41] <mdke> that's my view too
[10:42] <bustacap> the ubuntu wiki is really growing in popularity and use
[10:42] <mdke> as for communication, the communication is quite reasonable already
[10:42] <mdke> i don't think there is much more to be done
[10:42] <bustacap> I have found everything I have needed in the last few weeks that I have needed through the wiki
[10:42] <mdke> cool!
[10:42] <mdke> yeah it's improved a lot over the last few weeks
[10:43] <bustacap> here's a sweet success story - I have a SonyEricsson k750i phone that I wanted to control my beep-music-player with via bluetooth, and thanks to the MultimediaKeys wiki page and a little ingenuity, I am now able to turn up the music on a song I can barely hear in the kitchen with my phone.. :D
[10:45] <bustacap> I know this isn't the official meeting, but do you feel there might be a little opposition to cutting over to the wiki from the UDSF guys, given the amount of work they would have had to put into their project..
[10:45] <mdke> no, they've said expressly that we should take stuff.
[10:45] <mdke> that was the reason they moved to PD
[10:46] <bustacap> sure, but there needs to be one step further - the gradual change in "practices" in creating a howto on the forums and creating the document directly in the wiki
[10:46] <bustacap> prevents double documenting of procedures
[10:47] <mdke> or triple, if you count the UDSF
[10:47] <bustacap> also increases participation in "Official Ubuntu" stuff (for use of a better word)
[10:47] <bustacap> yeah..
[10:47] <mdke> i couldn't agree more, but that will be very complicated
[10:47] <mdke> i'd love to see the wiki and the forums closer together, but there is a lot of work involved in that, no least social barrier-breaking
[10:48] <bustacap> well, not really, looking at the membership hearing for manicka, it seems that there is a close-knit group of guys who answer a bulk of the questions on the forums, if these guys organise to promote the use of the wiki, I am sure the rest of the forum regulars will follow..
[10:49] <bustacap> hence, (draw deep breath), the invitation of the main forum 'players'
[10:49] <bustacap> to tomorrow's meeting
[10:50] <bustacap> this will allow them to raise any issues they might have with the current arrangements (or their motivations for creating the UDSF)
[10:50] <bustacap> brb
[10:50] <mdke> you'll need the forum admins to that sort of discussion
[10:50] <mdke> but it is much too big a project
[10:51] <mdke> considering the fact that I spent tens and tens of hours trying to encourage the merging of the UDSF and the Ubuntu wiki (and failed), a merge of the Forum howto section and the wiki is even more work
[10:51] <bustacap> haha, so I am just trumpeting the same trumpet you have used..
[10:51] <bustacap> :D
[11:03] <bustacap> mdke, what is your take on this statement on the UDSF site: "The UDSF is a human-filtered archive of the forums that serves to polish the jewels and remove the rough, making sure that only the best of the best get copied over to the Ubuntu Wiki from the forums."
[11:17] <mdke> bustacap, dunno
[11:18] <mdke> that was the point of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
[11:22] <manicka> Then maybe we could treat it like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum, which hasn't worked. The data in the archive is there just waiting to be used.
[11:23] <mdke> hi manicka 
[11:23] <manicka> hey :)
[11:24] <manicka> I have a question about wiki how-tos in general
[11:24] <manicka> if a user creates a page, who links this page back to the main userdocs index pages. the user or the doc-team?
[11:25] <mdke> either
[11:25] <manicka> hmm, okay
[11:26] <mdke> however, we like only mature pages to go in the index, so ask for them to be reviewed if possible
[11:26] <mdke> and pages in CategoryCleanup shouldn't be in there
[11:26] <mdke> that's the theory anyhow
[11:27] <manicka> so the best way would be for  the user to make the page then notify via the mailing list for someone to have a look at it
[11:27] <bustacap> hey manicka, congrats on your membership being granted..
[11:27] <manicka> thankyou
[11:28] <mdke> manicka, yeah, ideally
[11:28] <mdke> lots of people do that
[11:28] <mdke> WikiGuide should have all that sort of info
[11:31] <bustacap> yeah, basically, the wiki is the to create as many ad-hoc howtos that are required, then, when the author is ready, they can change their wiki pages to the CategoryCleanup category and have their pages reviewed, and eventually, if up to the standard, get an inclusion into one of the main wiki indexes..
[11:31] <manicka> do you know if there are any mediawiki to moin moin scripts around?
[11:32] <mdke> manicka, i'm not sure, there might be. we can try google or ask in #moin
[11:33] <bustacap> is mediawiki the format of the UDSF?
[11:34] <mdke> its the software yeah
[01:03] <manicka> mdke
[01:03] <mdke> hello manicka 
[01:03] <manicka> does kb know about the udsf agenda item at the doc team meeting?
[01:04] <mdke> i don't know, it was just added
[01:04] <mdke> i'm not too sure what the issue is, myself
[01:04] <manicka> would you like some us to attend?
[01:05] <mdke> i didn't add the item, but of course I'd be happy if you attend the meeting
[01:05] <manicka> ok, thanks
[01:08] <mdke> regardless of what the agenda is :)
[01:11] <mdke> heya rob
[01:12] <rob> hi mdke 
[02:10] <mdke> ahhhh
[02:10] <mdke> i rock
[02:10] <mdke> Burgwork, http://help.ubuntu.com/wiki/FaqGuide2
[02:11] <mdke> just need to sort out a few margins now
[02:39] <jjesse> that FAQ looks nice :)
[02:42] <mdke> yay :)
[02:43] <mdke> jjesse, i think we should merge the desktopguide meeting into the regular one
[02:43] <mdke> what do you think?
[02:44] <jjesse> mdke: that's fine w/ me, i can't make to the one today, but we had talked about working on the dekstopguide seperatly cause not everyone was interested
[02:44] <mdke> yeah
[02:44] <jjesse> i wass just looking at the agenda and saw that meeting was still listed, but it never did work out
[05:23] <jsgotangco> hrmm i might be too sleepy to attend the meeting later :/
[05:26] <robotgeek> hmm, i think i should be able to make it to the meeting
[05:29] <jsgotangco> it would be around 6am on my side
[05:29] <jsgotangco> its already 12:30am
[05:29] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: go to bed right now :)
[05:30] <jsgotangco> im still looking for a neat tld
[05:30] <robotgeek> tld?
[05:30] <robotgeek> top level domain?
[05:31] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:31] <robotgeek> neattld.org, lol
[05:32] <jsgotangco> i'd like a country code heh
[05:33] <robotgeek> i bought myself a .org, i dunno why
[05:33] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:33] <robotgeek> i have to claim, "I'm a one man organization"
[05:34] <jsgotangco> wonder if i could get a .va tld
[05:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:36] <jsgotangco> later
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i hope
[06:33] <jjesse> mdke: are the kubuntu docs available for translation thru rosetta?
[06:34] <mdke> no, no docs are
[06:34] <mdke> infact, none of dapper is
[06:34] <jjesse> oh
[06:35] <mdke> we'll only add the docs when they get to a stable stage
[06:35] <mdke> are any kubuntu docs nearing that stage already?
[06:35] <jjesse> releasenotes are getting close
[06:35] <mdke> ok cool, I'll start thinking about it
[06:36] <jjesse> aren't we in feature freeze?
[06:37] <mdke> dunno
[06:37] <mdke> upstream version freeze i think
[06:37] <mdke> that doesn't affect docs though
[06:37] <jjesse> i never remember but if we are in feature freeze then not much should change release notes wise
[06:38] <mdke> ah right, yeah
[06:48] <LaserJock> mdke, jjesse: I was poking around KDE and noticed that the Packaging Guide isn't in the KDE help. I think, since it is a generic doc, that it would be good for it to be in both. What do you guys think?
[06:49] <mdke> yes, sure
[06:56] <jjesse> agree
[06:58] <LaserJock> ok, do I need to talk to Riddell to make that change or can you guys do it? or do I have to do it ;-)
[06:58] <mdke> i've changed the Makefile and asked Riddell to change the packaging
[06:59] <mdke> or you can do it yourself I guess
[06:59] <mdke> see kubuntu/debian
[06:59] <mdke> ok *goes home*
[07:00] <LaserJock> ok, I'll look into it
[07:08] <Burgwork> mdke, that is ultimate answer to the ubuntuguide
[07:08] <jjesse> the faqguide?  i like it a lot :)
[08:39] <mdke> Burgwork, it is the doc that is already on help.ubuntu.com, except through the moin wiki
[08:39] <mdke> i think we're ready to go for BetterWikiDocs
[08:39] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, but in a nicer format and easier to read
[08:39] <mdke> is it?
[08:39] <mdke> it should be the same :/
[08:40] <Burgwork> oh, wait, I haven't looked at help since you hacked at the css
[08:40] <Burgwork> yes, they look the same
[08:40] <mdke> oh the font is a bit different
[09:40] <Nestal> Hello
[09:40] <Nestal> I've just got Ubuntu 5.1, I need some help, please
[09:41] <LaserJock> Nestal: have you tried #ubuntu ?
[09:41] <jjesse> Nestal: you probally are looking for #ubuntu to help you out
[09:41] <jjesse> Nestal: we work on the documentation here 
[09:41] <Nestal> nAh ok Thank you :)
[09:43] <Nestal> see you
[10:06] <jjesse> man our svn is huge :(
[10:13] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm up to 203MB in my checkout
[10:14] <jjesse> i'm at 625 MB
[10:14] <LaserJock> oh my
[10:15] <LaserJock> why is yours so much more?
[10:16] <mdke> more cache
[10:16] <mdke> jjesse, delete and recheckout?
[10:20] <jjesse> mdke: ok
[10:40] <bustacap> doc team meeting on in 20mins..
[10:40] <Burgwork> any bash experts here?
[10:41] <bustacap> I'll give it a 'bash' ;)
[10:41] <bustacap> pm me..
[10:43] <LaserJock> Burgwork: do we have an agenda?
[10:43] <Burgwork> LaserJock, whats an agenda?
[10:44] <mdke> DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[10:44] <LaserJock> thanks mdke
[10:45] <mdke> Burgwork, any idea if Brian will be around?
[10:45] <Burgwork> mdke, nope, he is at work
[10:45] <mdke> Burgwork, ok thanks
[10:46] <LaserJock> pesky work >:|
[11:02] <mdke> meeting now then?