[01:06] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if bshumate's connection was really reset by beer :-)
[01:06] <LaserJock> I guess a drunk ISP could be to blame
[01:07] <Burgwork> can I reset my connection with beer?
[01:07] <LaserJock> if you have enough I'm sure ;-)
[01:07] <Burgwork> glad this week is over
[01:08] <Burgwork> but next week I go to Toronto, ugh
[02:25] <[Alpha] > Helppppppppppppppppppppppp with an old bios
[02:27] <LaserJock> [Alpha] : this isn't a support channel, you should try #ubuntu
[02:31] <Burgwork> there, that might be clearer than doc team
[02:31] <Burgwork> not that anybody reads topics anyway
[03:19] <LaserJock> bustacap: do you think the UDSF meeting agenda sounds neutral enough?
[03:29] <bustacap> LaserJock, haha word travels quickly
[03:29] <bustacap> well, is that a trick question? :)
[03:30] <bustacap> it is an agenda for discussion, and an agenda that can be added to..
[03:32] <bustacap> LaserJock, I have changed a line on the page to now read: "The agenda is open to be added to and edited freely by anyone."
[03:34] <bustacap> I am having a breather for a while, I'll check up on the situation later from my UG meeting tonight
[03:54] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hey LaserJock 
[03:54] <jsgotangco> so how did the meeting go?
[03:55] <LaserJock> umm, ok  I guess. I'm used to MOTU meetings so it was pretty quick
[03:55] <jsgotangco> ah not so much on agenda i guess :/
[03:55] <LaserJock> we talked about changing the C locale to en
[04:01] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: we need more controversy so our meetings last for hours like the MOTU meetings do ;-)
[04:05] <jsgotangco> heh we need more doc maintainers and screw up our licenses
[04:06] <LaserJock> hmm, yes that might work too
[04:10] <jsgotangco> ok brb too
[06:28] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[06:28] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
[06:29] <robotgeek> how it goes?
[06:30] <LaserJock> it's going. I fixed tightvnc today, which is good
[06:31] <robotgeek> cool, i'm looking forward to get on with the Kubuntu docs today, get the structure laid out
[06:40] <LaserJock> hi KingBahamut 
[06:41] <robotgeek> hey KingBahamut 
[06:41] <KingBahamut> aye
[06:44] <LaserJock> does anybody know how .pot files are created?
[06:44] <robotgeek> hmm, i read about this. i know it for python, lemme pull up a link
[06:45] <KingBahamut> I seem to remember
[06:45] <KingBahamut> thats something referencing documentation or something
[06:45] <KingBahamut> cant quite remember
[06:45] <robotgeek> KingBahamut: heh
[06:47] <LaserJock> well, I think they are for translations perhaps
[06:47] <LaserJock> but I want to mess around with the gpl XML but it also has a .pot . I don't know if I will mess it up
[06:47] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, i know thet are for translations, i am trying to pull up something specific
[06:47] <robotgeek> deja vu, i swear
[06:48] <robotgeek> Madpilot_: you the man
[06:48] <robotgeek> LaserJock: http://anakin.ncst.ernet.in/~aparna/consolidated/x3799.html maybe that will help
[06:48] <Madpilot_> hmm?
[06:49] <robotgeek> you know how to generate pot files for translations?
[06:49] <Madpilot_> me? nope, sorry. I'm a hopeless unilingual anglophone...
[06:49] <LaserJock> looks like xml2pot would work
[06:50] <LaserJock> I don't think I will mess anything up because I'm just changing the layout not the content
[06:53] <robotgeek> maybe someone should do a wiki page on that
[06:54] <LaserJock> lol, a wiki page is always the answer ;-)
[07:09] <dsas> could someone explain to me how to make a subpage of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WifiDocs/ and make it show up in the card specific section?
[07:10] <Madpilot_> dsas, just create the URL you want to use (/WifiDocs/FooCard or whatever) and the wiki will ask if you want to create a page with that name
[07:11] <Madpilot_> make sure you add it to the main WifiDocs page - subpages aren't added automatically
[07:11] <dsas> Madpilot_, ah ok, I understood that [[FullSearch(-ManufacturerModel AND title:WifiDocs)] ]  did something fancy to make it show up automatically?
[07:12] <Madpilot_> no idea, to be honest
[07:12] <dsas> i'll try and see :)
[07:12] <Madpilot_> go ahead, it's easy to revert things that mess up on the wiki!
[07:16] <dsas> Madpilot_, sweet, it just worked
[07:17] <Madpilot_> dsas, cool. Which  page?
[07:17] <dsas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WifiDocs/CompaqW200
[07:18] <dsas> Madpilot_, I've added a redirect to the old one :)
[07:18] <dsas> *from the old one
[07:18] <Madpilot_> from is better :P
[07:18] <Burgundavia> Madpilot_, do you work tomorrow?
[07:19] <Madpilot_> Burgundavia, yes, I'm downtown 10-6
[07:20] <Burgundavia> hmm, the phone here has already been cutoff
[07:20] <Madpilot_> yes, Telus is evil. And irritating.
[07:25] <Burgundavia> mdke, around?
[07:25] <Madpilot_> dsas, cool, I see how that WifiDocs card list works - interesting search filtering...
[07:28] <dsas> Madpilot_, I don't grok how the ManufacturerModel bit works tbh
[07:28] <Madpilot_> dsas, if it works, that's enough :P
[07:29] <dsas> Madpilot_, *grins*, I agree. 
[07:30] <Madpilot_> it's some sort of search-filter voodoo
[07:31] <dsas> and who am I to question the moin voodo man
[07:31] <dsas> would anyone like to criticise CompaqW200 or should I send a mail to the mailing list?
[07:32] <Burgundavia> salut bshumate 
[07:32] <Burgundavia> dsas, just a sec, I will look at it
[07:32] <dsas> Burgundavia, thanks
[07:33] <Burgundavia> dsas, looks good. A few comments
[07:33] <Madpilot_> dsas, it looks OK, but I don't actually grok wireless, so I'm not really qualified further...
[07:34] <Burgundavia> dsas, we don't prefer any editor, so change the bit about editing /etc/modules to say something like "Open a text editor using sudo and edit /etc/modules"
[07:34] <Burgundavia> dsas, other than that, looks good
[07:36] <Madpilot_> Burgundavia, "sudo gedit /whatever/foo" is easier to understand than "open a text editor using sudo and..."
[07:36] <Madpilot_> or "sudo nano..." if you want to make sure it works everywhere...
[07:36] <Burgundavia> Madpilot_, yes, but what if a kubuntu user reads it
[07:37] <Burgundavia> Madpilot_, all the official docs are written in this way and it was good
[07:37] <Madpilot_> nano works in Kubuntu too...
[07:38] <Burgundavia> still no good, commandline only
[07:38] <dsas> Burgundavia, ok, I'll change that in other documents I come across it in too.
[07:38] <Burgundavia> dsas, cheers
[07:49] <dsas> Burgundavia, It it ok for me to move that page out of category cleanup now?
[07:49] <Burgundavia> dsas, yep
[08:27] <LaserJock> I just updated and cleaned up our GPL docbook
[08:29] <LaserJock> in case anybody cares ;-)
[08:31] <Madpilot_> saw that - big commit
[08:32] <LaserJock> well, not really any content change
[08:32] <LaserJock> just updated the address
[08:33] <LaserJock> but I took out the sect tags and replaced them with orderedlists
[11:17] <mdke> LaserJock_away, don't worry about the pot for the gpl, go ahead and edit
[11:18] <mdke> oh you did, good ;)
[11:18] <robotgeek> hey mdke 
[11:19] <mdke> morning
[11:26] <mdke> poor old Naaman
[11:35] <robotgeek> why?
[11:36] <mdke> well he's undertaken a very difficult task
[11:37] <mdke> trying to bring the wiki and forums closer together
[11:37] <robotgeek> yeah, that's a tough one. but someone's gotta do it
[11:38] <mdke> mmm
[11:38] <mdke> many have spent a lot of time trying already
[11:38] <mdke> but maybe a fresh face might help
[11:41] <robotgeek> yeah...i spent some time with KB one day, but did not work out
[11:41] <robotgeek> it got outta practical domain, and went to philosophical ones. 
[11:42] <mdke> it's a shame because really the forum (helpdesk) and wiki (guides) idea is so simple, that it would work really well
[11:42] <robotgeek> yeah
[11:43] <manicka> evening mdke, robotgeek
[11:43] <robotgeek> evening manicka 
[11:54] <robotgeek> time for me to write layout structure for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide, later. 
[11:54] <robotgeek_work> mdke: maybe i can just copy structure from ubuntu desktop guide?
[11:55] <robotgeek_work> i might also get kkhatman to work on it with me, so that's nice
[12:16] <mdke> robotgeek_work, sounds good. You can copy anything you like
[12:20] <robotgeek_work> cool. the first changes are going to be grep for ubuntu and replace with kubuntu :)
[12:21] <robotgeek_work> hah, looks like rob1/someone else has already done that :)
[12:49] <robotgeek_work> mdke: is there a specific column size to which i should limit the writing to (78 cols or such?). i usually do it without linebreaks
[12:49] <robotgeek_work> not that it would matter with xml, but you get the idea
[12:51] <robotgeek_work> i'm done with the preface, lol
[12:51] <mdke> robotgeek_work, i do it without linebreaks too
[12:51] <mdke> someone eventually comes along and cleans it up
[12:51] <mdke> dunno how
[12:51] <mdke> maybe with conglomerate or something
[12:52] <robotgeek_work> hmm, i find it difficult to read with line breaks, that's not the way i am used to :)
[12:52] <robotgeek_work> conglomerate? 
[12:52] <robotgeek_work> ah, the editor
[12:53] <robotgeek_work> is it any better than vim? :)
[12:53] <mdke> i don't understand how it works
[12:53] <mdke> it lays things out structurall
[12:53] <mdke> y
[12:53] <robotgeek_work> i got some plugin which puts the closing tag automatically, very useful
[12:53] <mdke> cool
[12:54] <robotgeek_work> i think it might be xmledit itself, or something else. i have about 3/4 installed, lol
[12:55] <robotgeek_work> kde-chunk-online.xsl is what i'm using right now for the html output, i couldn't find one for the kubuntu-desktop guide
[12:55] <robotgeek_work> should i just use the one for ubuntu right now?
[12:56] <robotgeek_work> hey Kyral 
[01:39] <robotgeek_work> mdke: ping
[01:43] <mdke> robotgeek_work, pong
[01:44] <robotgeek_work> mdke: can i just do stuff like http://pastebin.com/527190
[01:44] <robotgeek_work> or do i have to rewrite everything for kubuntu? 
[01:45] <mdke> looks good to me
[01:46] <mdke> use your own judgment, and ask the kubuntu guys to review afterwards
[01:46] <robotgeek_work> heh, as usual :)
[01:47] <robotgeek_work> i am still trying to figure out how it all works out, but i'm comfortable with docbook already. html + latex :)
[01:47] <robotgeek_work> i'll bug you if i have any questions
[01:55] <mdke> cool, thanks for working on that
[01:56] <robotgeek_work> no problems, it's a good way for me to contribute back to an OS which i probably will be using for the rest of my life (Hopefully)
[02:05] <mdke> :)
[02:27] <robotgeek_work> mdke: do you know if we will have Shipits for Kubuntu Dapper?
[02:39] <robotgeek_work> found out, answer is "assume yes:
[02:40] <robotgeek_work> apparently, What does kubuntu mean? has the answer "It means "towards humanity" in Bemba."
[02:43] <mdke> i thought shipit wasn't available for kubuntu
[02:44] <robotgeek_work> i asked Riddell, he said "assume yes"
[02:44] <mdke> cool
[02:46] <robotgeek_work> damn, i'm finding out new things about Kubuntu, and I'm not liking it:)
[02:46] <Bonzodog> in dapper, and it's nice
[02:48] <robotgeek_work> i'm actually writing this on xubuntu, eventually i will move over to kubuntu
[02:48] <robotgeek_work> since i have better hardware now :)
[02:50] <robotgeek_work> it's a much nicely integrated system, IMHO. and I come from the mac line, so it matters quite a bit to me :)
[02:50] <Bonzodog> ugh...kde sucks imho
[02:50] <Bonzodog> it's bloatware
[02:51] <robotgeek_work> bloat where?
[02:51] <Bonzodog> you seen how much software it installs?
[02:51] <Bonzodog> like over a gig of software
[02:52] <robotgeek_work> true, but all that is required for the "integration". i don't care for disk space :)
[02:52] <Bonzodog> to get a full running desktop
[02:52] <Bonzodog> I have so much diskspace it defies reality
[02:53] <Bonzodog> but kde's bloat is inexcusable
[02:53] <Bonzodog> I wouldn't use suse because it relies on the kde base to run yast
[02:53] <Bonzodog> I like my linux distro's light and fast
[02:54] <mpt_> And what kind of people call software "yast", anyway
[02:54] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: it pisses me off that I have to copy paste a url into liferea's discovery service to get feeds. 
[02:54] <Bonzodog> with absolute direct access to the core
[02:54] <mpt_> It sounds like an infection
[02:54] <mdke> heya mpt_ :)
[02:55] <robotgeek_work> in kde, from konqueror i can add feeds to akregator directly. stuff like that matters for me
[02:55] <mpt_> hi mdke 
[02:55] <robotgeek_work> plus, vim integrates nicely in kdevelop :)
[02:57] <Bonzodog> incidentally bustacaps idea of removing the how-to sections from the forums is unworkable
[02:59] <Bonzodog> the section was created because people were overloading other sections with there own home-grown how-tos
[02:59] <Bonzodog> some of those how-to's were put together by people who we have not heard from since
[03:00] <Bonzodog> but importantly, they work
[03:01] <Bonzodog> we cannot persuade the user base at large to contribute stuff directly to the wiki
[03:01] <Bonzodog> they just don't listen in our experience
[03:02] <Bonzodog> the forums are a bit like modern replacement for usenet, where people develop their own ways of doing things
[03:02] <Bonzodog> it's users helping users
[03:03] <Bonzodog> the mods are just there to mediate when things get out of hand, remove spam, and provide a modicum of control
[03:04] <Bonzodog> so we really have to centre on transferring the good stuff to the wiki, then acknowleding the contribution in the wiki
[03:05] <Bonzodog> we should never have to worry about asking permission as anything posted to the forums is classed as open to editing for public use
[03:05] <Bonzodog> mailing lists are frankly old hat
[03:06] <Bonzodog> I stopped using them **years** ago
[03:06] <Bonzodog> as I don't like a full inbox
[03:06] <mpt_> rofl
[03:06] <mpt_> Switching Ubuntu bug tracking from Bugzilla to Malone was not enough
[03:07] <mpt_> Let's switch all development discussion from the ubuntu-devel mailing list to the forums :-)
[03:07] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: mutt + fetchmail + procmail works great for lists :)
[03:07] <Bonzodog> i have gmail
[03:07] <Bonzodog> and just use it's web front end
[03:07] <mpt_> well, there's your problem right there
[03:07] <mpt_> If you use Gmail, forums will be comparably awkward and slow
[03:08] <Bonzodog> my ISP does not provide mail accounts
[03:08] <mdke> gmail has pop access
[03:08] <Bonzodog> so web mail it is
[03:08] <mdke> i use a pop web server
[03:08] <mdke> which is much worse than gmail
[03:08] <robotgeek_work> i use gmail's pop access, it very easy to setup too
[03:08] <mpt_> I use multiple computers, so POP is no good for me
[03:09] <Bonzodog> I have used gmails pop access
[03:09] <Bonzodog> but i cannot find a mail client i'm happy with
[03:09] <Bonzodog> I used to use pine
[03:09] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: kmail is very nice :)
[03:09] <Bonzodog> um...gtk solution it has to be
[03:10] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: syphleed maybe?
[03:10] <Bonzodog> I might install thunderbird
[03:10] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: you can get mutt with pine keybindings, if you can spare the effort, i think
[03:11] <Bonzodog> I want a well written ncurses client
[03:11] <robotgeek_work> mutt is very nice, i use both kmail and mutt 
[03:11] <robotgeek_work> mutt is for when i am away from computer
[03:12] <Bonzodog> at the moment though, I am keeping dapper on the bleeding edge
[03:12] <Bonzodog> and it's broken a lot of the gnome dependent apps
[03:12] <Bonzodog> as i am currently missing gconf
[03:12] <robotgeek_work> my dapper won't upgrade, i think it might actually be a good sign, lol
[03:13] <Bonzodog> robotgeek_work, have you asked for a dist-upgrade lately?
[03:13] <Bonzodog> I did it last night
[03:13] <Bonzodog> I now have gnome 2.13.9
[03:13] <Bonzodog> a very broken gnome
[03:13] <robotgeek_work> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/i/ifupdown/ifupdown_0.6.7ubuntu6_powerpc.deb  404 Not Found
[03:14] <Bonzodog> robotgeek_work, remove the 'us' from the addy
[03:14] <robotgeek_work> ah, okay. 
[03:14] <Bonzodog> it all has to be just archive.ubuntu.com to work
[03:14] <robotgeek_work> funny, it worked yesterday
[03:14] <Bonzodog> you wait now
[03:15] <Bonzodog> also enable universe and multiverse in both sets of archives, security included
[03:15] <robotgeek_work> already have
[03:16] <Bonzodog> then apt-get update
[03:16] <robotgeek_work> hmm, 123 MB. Do i want to upgrade and risk breakage...heh
[03:16] <Bonzodog> then apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:16] <robotgeek_work> hmm, this is going to take a while. crap
[03:17] <Bonzodog> like I said, /home is on a seperate partition, so breakag only happens at the root
[03:17] <robotgeek_work> Bonzodog: that's my test machine, so no issues there
[03:19] <robotgeek_work> mdke: i have a reference like &terminal, is that document specific?
[04:06] <robotgeek_work> mdke: can i refer directly to Adept Guide, instead of copy/pasting the material here?
[04:11] <robotgeek_work> anyways, almost done with chapter 1, i made a few changes to global ent, i guess. is that okay?
[04:13] <robotgeek_work> i made changes to "ubuntu-doc/libs/global.ent", is this okay? 
[04:14] <robotgeek_work> later, gotta hit bed :)
[04:17] <robotgeek_zzz> http://robotgeek.no-ip.info/KubuntuDesktopGuide/ is where you can get a sneak peek. lots of errors, i know :)
[05:52] <mdke> robotgeek_zzz, you can't use &terminal; it refers to a gnome-menus entity
[05:52] <mdke> robotgeek_zzz, yes, refer to the adept guide
[05:52] <mdke> robotgeek_zzz, yes, make changes to global.ent, if you need to add things
[05:52] <mdke> :)
[06:55] <LaserJock> mdke: did you happen to look at my changes to the gpl.xml?
[06:59] <mdke> LaserJock, nope, just assumed it is fine
[06:59] <mdke> that reminds me about the pot
[07:00] <LaserJock> mdke: oh your bold to assume that anything I do is fine ;-)
[07:00] <LaserJock> mdke: so should all the .pot
[07:00] <LaserJock> files for the licenses be removed?
[07:01] <mdke> yeah I'm gonna do that
[07:02] <LaserJock> ok, thanks
[07:03] <LaserJock> I was hoping to not be too much of a pain
[07:03] <mdke> LaserJock, you're not at all
[07:03] <mdke> quite the reverse
[07:03] <mdke> done
[07:05] <mdke> tempted to nuke xubuntu too, we don't work on that to my knowledge
[07:05] <LaserJock> really?
[07:06] <mdke> i think that is upstream docs, no one has ever worked on it iirc
[07:12] <LaserJock> oh
[07:14] <LaserJock> that's to bad
[07:14] <mdke> ?
[07:16] <LaserJock> that we don't have any xubuntu docs
[07:17] <LaserJock> what about edubuntu? Do they have there own docs?
[07:19] <mdke> xfce has good upstream docs
[07:19] <mdke> yeah edubuntu have some docs
[07:20] <mdke> the current ones are not in our repo i think
[07:24] <LaserJock> lol, I forgot that we were shipping HTML. My yelp hasn'
[07:24] <mdke> hasn't?
[07:24] <LaserJock> hasn't shown anything for a while
[07:24] <mdke> oh right
[07:24] <mdke> do a scrollkeeper reinstall
[07:25] <LaserJock> really?
[07:25] <mdke> just sudo scrollkeeper-rebuild should do it
[07:25] <LaserJock> I'll try that because it works in my chroot but not on my main install
[07:26] <mdke> just dist-upgrade it should be fixed :D
[07:27] <LaserJock> well, a dist-upgrade hasn't fixed it
[07:27] <mdke> was scrollkeeper updated?
[07:28] <crimsun> today, yes
[07:28] <LaserJock> I don't know but sudo scrollkeeper-rebuilddb worked
[07:28] <mdke> good
[07:28] <LaserJock> weird
[07:29] <mdke> its a known problem
[07:29] <mdke> should have been fixed with the last scrollkeeper tho i think
[07:30] <Bonzodog> wot no gconf-editor, wot no gksudo
[07:31] <Bonzodog> wot no theme manager
[07:31] <LaserJock> what I don't get is why it would work in my chroot. They are both dist-upgraded, just not at the same time
[07:31] <Bonzodog> gconf is **completely** broken in ghnome at the moment
[07:31] <mdke> Bonzodog, worksforme
[07:32] <Bonzodog> you ever tried running gnome without it
[07:32] <Bonzodog> ?
[07:32] <LaserJock> good thing I have KDE around ;-)
[07:32] <Bonzodog> I'm on dapper 64 bit
[07:32] <Bonzodog> with all repos enabled
[07:32] <Bonzodog> and I did a dist-upgrade
[07:32] <Bonzodog> as of last night
[07:33] <Bonzodog> the dist-upgrade just broke gnome completely
[07:33] <Bonzodog> it also did an interesting update to gdm
[07:33] <Bonzodog> my gnome is currently 2.13.9
[07:34] <mdke> yes there is a new gdm theme
[07:35] <Bonzodog> the shutdown and reboot menu's have been enclosed in one 'options' menu
[07:35] <Bonzodog> I cannot understand how it broke gconf though
[07:35] <Bonzodog> gconfd is running in the background
[07:35] <mdke> best file a bug
[07:35] <mdke> i don't see that here
[07:36] <Bonzodog> but all my icons ahve gone, I have no desktop background
[07:36] <Bonzodog> gnome-theme-manager segfaults
[07:37] <LaserJock> works fine for me too
[07:40] <Bonzodog> try deleting your .gconf dirs in your home dir
[07:41] <Bonzodog> and watch it crash
[07:42] <LaserJock> Bonzodog: works fine for me
[07:42] <Bonzodog> hrmm...strange
[07:43] <Bonzodog> dunno why it just happened on my system
[07:43] <Bonzodog> but something did break once in downloading
[09:56] <SteveMyers> mdke, when you're available can you pm me sir, thank you