[12:10] <mick_linux> hi everyone
[12:23] <cyberix> "Ok, so I have a translation team. What next?"
[12:23] <cyberix> What is different than when translating alone?
[12:28] <cyberix> It tells me "No translations recorded from Ubuntu Lojban Translators."
[12:28] <cyberix> How does it know which translations belong to which group
[12:28] <cyberix> I mean team
[12:33] <mick_linux> ya, I'm at the point where I have a few teams and I'm like "where do we start"
[12:35] <mick_linux> i have my project (which has ~10 different l10n teams)
[12:35] <mick_linux> i don't see where i have subprojects
[12:36] <mick_linux> hmmmm "Translation setup required"
[12:36] <cyberix> If I (as a team leader) don't understand how this works, how could a team member
[12:37] <mick_linux> cyberix, i'm in agreement
[12:37] <mick_linux> i'm reading the wiki and i see: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-fr/
[12:38] <mick_linux> does that mean that i need a new project per locale?
[12:38] <cyberix> Tomorrow I might have some nontechnical Lojbanists joining the group. And I don't know what to tell them, in case I can find a way to tell them anything.
[12:38] <cyberix> :-P
[12:39] <cyberix> I'm also, so not understanding, what I can do personally and what Launchpad admins have to do.
[12:40] <cyberix> "No translations recorded from Ubuntu French Translators."
[12:40] <cyberix> wtf?
[12:40] <mick_linux> well i also don't get this in the policy:
[12:40] <mick_linux> Being an "official Rosetta product" means the authors of the product delegate the job of dealing with translations to Rosetta translators. They will just have to post new versions of their templates, and collect the fruits of translator's work before their release.
[12:41] <mick_linux> i have l10n teams (i don't "need" rosetta translators) - I could use some help, but I don't "need" it
[12:41] <mick_linux> heh, I manage ~ 100 people doing different locales
[12:42] <cyberix> I think "official Rosetta product" means one where the upstream author co-operates with Rosetta.
[12:43] <mick_linux> i am the upstream author
[12:43] <cyberix> And "Rosetta translators" is probably a reference to everyone who translates a string in Rosetta.
[12:43] <mick_linux> but it is not an "ubuntu app"
[12:43] <mick_linux> also:
[12:44] <mick_linux> Rosetta can assign translators that are members of a given team. If you don't have very specific needs for translation permissions for your projects, we strongly encourage you to assign your project to the Ubuntu Translation Team, which has many translators assigned in many Language subteams, and will take care of translating your application for you.
[12:44] <mick_linux> why the hell would i want to do that if it isn't an ubuntu app?
[12:44] <mick_linux> just to use their translators?
[12:44] <mick_linux> btw: is it ok if a non-ubuntu app is localized here?
[12:44] <cyberix> Yes
[12:45] <cyberix> I think that is because Launchpad started with Ubuntu
[12:45] <cyberix> so there are not yet generic translation teams for different languages
[12:45] <cyberix> so the Ubuntu translators are used instead
[12:45] <cyberix> Because they are the biggest teams
[12:46] <cyberix> And can take the burden better than other smaller teams
[12:46] <mick_linux> ok
[12:46] <mick_linux> to be fixed:  Country Specific Languages (fix for the fr_FR, es_ES, etc.. locales).
[12:46] <mick_linux> hmm
[12:46] <mick_linux> that doesn't sound good
[12:47] <mick_linux> "should be ready first week of July"
[12:47] <mick_linux> thats scary
[12:47] <mick_linux> it will be hell if i get everyone started and then something messes up
[12:47] <cyberix> But I do doubt that you can use Rosetta without giving any permission to the translations to anyone
[12:48] <cyberix> I think the translations are automaticly licensed in a freeish way.
[12:48] <mick_linux> anyone *can* do it (for all I care)
[12:48] <cyberix> or something like that
[12:48] <mick_linux> they are using kbabel and poedit
[12:48] <mick_linux> hmm, can they "relicense" translations?
[12:49] <mick_linux> i would have a problem w/ that
[12:49] <cyberix> I really don't know.
[12:49] <mick_linux> i want it GPLv2 (only)
[12:49] <mick_linux> until GPLv3 gets rid of the DRM stuff
[12:50] <mick_linux> and i don't want some license inconsistency
[12:50] <cyberix> If every translator would commit their translations under gpl.
[12:50] <mick_linux> like a BSD-ish relicense from launchpad
[12:50] <cyberix> nah never mind
[12:51] <mick_linux> you gotta ask those types of questions, right
[12:51] <cyberix> I was just thinking that there might be a problem, if someone tried to use Rosetta and Ubuntutranslators e.g. to translate a proprietary application
[12:52] <cyberix> But I don't know how this is avoided
[12:52] <mick_linux> ya
[12:52] <mick_linux> and are they ok with non-linux apps being translated
[12:52] <Burgundavia> currently the translation is licensed under the same license as the application you are translating
[12:53] <mick_linux> ok
[12:53] <mick_linux> thanks
[12:53] <cyberix> mick_linux: non-linux probably ok
[12:53] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/legal
[12:53] <mick_linux> thanks
[12:54] <mick_linux> now to get started, i need to "request" a rosetta setup?
[12:54] <mick_linux> and what is: "Country Specific Languages (fix for the fr_FR, es_ES, etc.. locales)."
[12:54] <mick_linux> since I have de_DE, fr_FR, es_ES, pt_BR, pt_PT, etc....
[12:55] <mick_linux> that was here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaWishList
[12:56] <mick_linux> if i get everyone setup here (it will take me a LONG time)
[12:57] <mick_linux> I don't want to look like a moron and some bug prevents us from localizing into specific locales
[12:57] <mick_linux> since i had something similar w/ joomla very recently
[12:57] <mick_linux> we found out that utf-8 is only kinda supported
[12:57] <cyberix> How should my team members get started?
[12:58] <mick_linux> you need to upload the .po files
[12:58] <mick_linux> then they need an account
[12:58] <mick_linux> then i'm stuck 
[12:58] <mick_linux> ;-)
[12:58] <cyberix> The team is going to translate Ubutu
[12:58] <cyberix> Ubuntu
[12:58] <cyberix> But I'm affraid they will register, logg in, not understand what to do, and never log in again
[12:58] <mick_linux> in that case - no idea
[12:59] <mick_linux> ya, i am afraid of that w/ my project
[12:59] <cyberix> Lets hope we are wrong
[12:59] <mick_linux> i just want an easy way for non-techs to translate stuff
[12:59] <mick_linux> otherwise i'd give then svn access ;-)
[01:00] <mick_linux> i have a lot to loose w/ this 
[01:00] <mick_linux> i think i may get one team started first (as a test)
[01:03] <mick_linux> just how do i do it in regards to teams?
[01:03] <mick_linux> i want to have everything under one team
[01:03] <mick_linux> main project: clamwin
[01:03] <mick_linux> sub project: de_DE
[01:03] <mick_linux> sub project: fr_FR
[01:03] <mick_linux> etc.
[01:27] <mpt_> Burgundavia, are you saying you can't change your own ID?
[01:30] <cyberix> mpt_: Is my "Ubuntu Lojban Translators" now ready to work? Or do you have to do some admin voodoo?
[01:31] <mpt_> cyberix, I added you to Ubuntu's translation group. I don't know if anything else needs doing. Try translating and see. :-)
[01:31] <cyberix> mpt_: How should the group affect anything?
[01:32] <cyberix> mpt_: The team page reads... None of the members of Ubuntu Lojban Translators are teams, and nor is it a member of any other team.
[01:38] <mpt_> cyberix, "translation groups" and "teams" are not the same thing (I thought they should be, but I was overruled)
[01:39] <mpt_> so someone can be, and Ubuntu Lojban Translators is, a member of a translation group without being a member of a team.
[01:40] <cyberix> I'm so lost
[01:41] <mpt_> I'm sorry, I tried
[01:41] <cyberix> Not blaming you
[01:41] <mpt_> Have you tried translating?
[01:41] <cyberix> I managed to translate some strings in Breezy and some in Dapper
[01:41] <cyberix> with Breezy every other package disappeared from the list
[01:42] <cyberix> and Dapper doesn't seem to notice the translations
[01:42] <cyberix> (in other words Translatable items:  156247)
[01:42] <cyberix> Untranslated: 156247
[01:43] <cyberix> And here is the Breezy list https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/jbo
[01:46] <mpt_> Well, we have a bug where packages with no translations at all aren't shown
[01:48] <cyberix> Thats bad
[01:48] <mpt_> yes
[01:48] <cyberix> Wouldn't restrict me, but the nontechnical team members can't work then.
[01:50] <cyberix> mpt_: Well, there you have another error case to examine. We hope it helps in resolving the bug :-)
[01:51] <mpt_> I can't find the bug report
[01:51] <cyberix> This is a lot bigger problem with lojban because almost all packages are at 0 translations atm
[01:52] <cyberix> It really sucks, if they all disappear
[01:52] <mpt_> yeah
[01:52] <mpt_> Badger carlos to fix that
[01:52] <mpt_> that should be high priority, since it prevents translators from doing anything at all
[01:53] <cyberix> I could create a script to translate one string from every package to "something"
[01:53] <cyberix> :-)
[01:55] <mpt_> here it is: <https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2036>
[01:55] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2036 in rosetta "DistroRelease language page should show *all* templates" [Major,Confirmed]  
[01:55] <mpt_> cyberix, whenever you see carlos, ask him "are you fixing bug 2036 yet? are you fixing bug 2036 yet?" :-)
[01:55] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2036 in rosetta "DistroRelease language page should show *all* templates" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2036
[01:56] <cyberix> mpt_: :-)
[03:00] <Burgundavia> mpt_, I hadn't tried
[03:01] <Burgundavia> mpt_, hmm, I changed it but LP I guess needs time to sync
[09:20] <poningru> so question
[09:20] <poningru> I think I set a bug as confirmed in malone, can a random user do this?
[09:49] <Den> Anyone here?  My bug from Ubuntu bugzilla # 21565 does not appear in Launchpad.  Were all ubuntu bugs supoosed to have been transfered?  What am I supposed to do?  Create a new bug?
[10:09] <mpt__> poningru, yes, anyone can change any bug report in Malone
[10:09] <mpt__> Den, did you see what I wrote, or did I fall off the Internet before then?
[10:10] <mdke> you fell off mpt__ 
[10:10] <Den> mpt__: I didn't see anything directed to me from you.
[10:15] <mpt__> mpt__	Den, go to your old bug report in Bugzilla, then click "View this bug in Launchpad"
	which brings you to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/27659
[10:15] <Ubugtu> malone bug 27659 in linux-source-2.6.15 "external hard disk disconnects (firewire ieee1394 over SCSI) during file copy 'Read-only file system' 'Device offlined'" [Normal,Needs info]  
[10:16] <mpt__> I guess the color scheme of the Bugzilla navigation is not the best
[10:17] <mpt__> and it shouldn't still be showing everything as available controls, either
[10:17] <mpt__> but, the link works
[10:17] <Den> Hey everyone, I see you all saying something about my bug, but maybe i'm missing something here - it's not suficient for me to make sense of what you're saying.
[10:20] <mdke> mpt__, is launchpad always going to have three columns? or is there any hint of moving to two for lower level pages?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> mdke, heh
[10:24] <Den> mpt__: Did you have something you wanted to tell me?
[10:24] <mdke> Burgundavia, seriously
[10:25] <Burgundavia> mdke, LP UI has been under discusion for along time now, with very little visible movement (though things might be moving behidn the scenes)
[10:25] <mdke> cool, that's kinda why I asked
[10:34] <Den> mdke: Do you know what mpt might have been trying to tell me?  I see some garbled comment from him here in this irc log about my bug, but it's too garbled for me to make sense of it, and mpt isn't responding.
[10:34] <mdke> Den, yes sure.
[10:34] <mdke> he said this:
[10:34] <mdke> go to your old bug report in Bugzilla, then click  "View this bug in Launchpad"
[10:35] <mdke> which brings you to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/27659
[10:35] <Ubugtu> malone bug 27659 in linux-source-2.6.15 "external hard disk disconnects (firewire ieee1394 over SCSI) during file copy 'Read-only file system' 'Device offlined'" [Normal,Needs info]  
[10:36] <Den> mdke: Thx.   I hadn't seen that.   But, I _did_ go to launchpad.net, and use the text search for words in my bug name, like "firewire", etc, and it pulled up other bug #'s, but mine didn't show up.  Is that a launchpad bug?  that bug 27659 didn't show up - it should have, right/
[10:36] <Ubugtu> malone bug 27659 in linux-source-2.6.15 "external hard disk disconnects (firewire ieee1394 over SCSI) during file copy 'Read-only file system' 'Device offlined'" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27659
[10:36] <Den> ?
[10:37] <mdke> maybe, if you did the right search
[10:39] <Den> mdke: Meaning???
[10:40] <mdke> meaning that if you did the right search, and it didn't show up, it's a bug in launchpad
[10:41] <Den> mdke: Here's the search I did"
[10:41] <Den> https://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu?field.searchtext=scsi+disk+firewire&search=Search&orderby=-priority%2C-severity
[10:42] <Den> mdke: all those words are in the brief summary of my original bug in bugzilla
[10:43] <Den> mdke: & it pulled up some bugs, but mine wasnt listed there.  There were six found bugs, and 27659 wasn't listed there.
[10:43] <mdke> that's right
[10:43] <Den> mdke: Anyway, did i not do something right, or is this a launchpad bug?
[10:44] <mdke> i can't see anything you did wrong
[10:45] <Den> mdke: Well, I gotta get to sleep.  if this is a launchpad bug, & you care about launchpad, I leave it to you to file the bug report, or make someone of authority aware of it.
[10:46] <mdke> ok, I'll file it for you
[10:51] <Den> mdke: Thanks, and "Rock on, Launchpad!"
[10:51] <mdke> Den, is your LP username Hereon1?
[10:51] <Den> mdke: yes
[10:51] <mdke> ok, i've filed the bug for you
[10:52] <mdke> it's bug 29969
[10:52] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29969 in malone "Search not turning up all results" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29969
[10:52] <Kamion> I bet the default search doesn't include "Needs Info" bugs
[10:53] <mdke> that is what I was thinking. But it should, I think
[10:54] <mdke> :) @ Kamion 
[11:13] <Den> Kamion: BTW, what is "kamion" ?  Is it a name, a thing, concept, ???
[11:21] <zyga> hi
[11:32] <Den> mdke: BTW, there might be another bug in launchpad:
[11:33] <mpt__> oh, there's CERTAINLY another bug in Launchpad
[11:33] <Den> When I first went to find my bug, I logged in with my same email address I'd used in Bugzilla, & it said I had no bugs assigned to me.
[11:35] <Den> But, IIRC, when I finally looked at the bug that was transfered over, it had my email  or name associated with it, (but it hadn't shown up as one of "my bugs" earlier)
[11:35] <Den> Anyway, that's just a clue to anyone who knows & cares about how launchpad is supposed to work - I don't know if it's a bug, nor have the eime to persue it.
[11:36] <Den> mpt__: You got that?
[11:37] <mpt__> mdke, I hope that one day the global navigation will be compact, and each page will have a layout appropriate for that particular page. I don't know how soon or whether that will happen.
[11:37] <mpt__> Den, you reported the bug, but it's not assigned to you.
[11:39] <mpt__> oh dear, it doesn't show up under your "Bugs Reported" page either
[11:39] <Den> mpt__: So, if I reported it, wouldn't it reasonably be "one of my bugs"?  Anyway, that was what that seemed to imply to me.  I can see your point, though, if it doesn't mean that.
[11:40] <mpt__> Den, where do you see the text "my bugs"? I see "Bugs Assigned", "Bugs Reported", "Bugs Subscribed", etc
[11:41] <Den> mpt__: That text was just a guess from what I'd seen 0.5 or 1 hour ago, on a web page I don't have in front of me now.
[11:41] <mpt__> ah, the "Bugs Reported" page excludes bug reports that are marked "Needs Info"
[11:41] <mpt__> that's vewwy bad
[11:42] <Den> mpt__: I do recall I logged in, and did something, (or maybe did nothing other than log in) & it said I had no bugs, even though it _did_ have the bug I'd entered on Bugzilla, and had been transfered to launchpad.
[11:43] <mpt__> Den, the reason your bug doesn't show up on your "Bugs Reported" page is bug 5977
[11:43] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5977 in malone ""bugs reported" page seems to be incomplete" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5977
[11:45] <Den> mpt__: Thx for the info.  I just hope my comments are of some use to you/thedevelopersoflaunchpad, because I don't know enough or have the time to persue it further.  It does seem to be a bug, & I leave it in your hands.  Thanks for your work! :)
[11:45] <mdke> mpt__, that would be cool
[11:46] <mdke> Den, aren't you in bed? I reported that bug for you because you said you had to sleep
[11:46] <Den> mdke: I should have beewn in bed 4 hours ago. :)
[11:46] <mpt__> Den, when I start work tomorrow I'll be continuing work on a spec <https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneFrontPages> to make all this *much* clearer
[11:48] <Den> mpt__: Great!  Long live free sw!
[11:48] <mdke> or nearly free software
[11:48] <mpt__> eventually-free software :-)
[11:49] <mdke> mpt__, so any progress on AboutUbuntu? I'm looking forward to removing it from ubuntu-docs
[11:49] <mpt__> mdke, no, sorry
[11:50] <mdke> ok
[11:50] <mdke> mpt__, are you working on it alone? perhaps you can draft in some help
[11:57] <janimo> jordi, ping
[11:58] <janimo> so the thunar people need to be asked whether they want rosetta as an exclusive means of translating their app?
[11:59] <mdke> janimo, yes, but note that rosetta doesn't require them to translate through the web interface. They can translate offline as before and upload to rosetta
[12:00] <janimo> ah I thougt it's all or nothing
[12:01] <janimo> but if they keep their old way, doesn't rosetta just add an extra step? what are the advantages if there's no web interface for lowering the translators barrier?
[12:01] <mdke> there is a web interface
[12:01] <mdke> but they don't _have_ to use it
[12:01] <mdke> if they prefer emacs or whatever, they can use that and upload the file
[12:02] <mdke> in the meantime, new contributors are more likely to enjoy the web interface
[12:04] <mdke> and that gives them the benefit of rosetta's suggestion database too
[12:04] <janimo> ok so some can use it while some can stay with the current way
[12:05] <janimo> is there a place where the process is described from a porject owner/translator pov?
[12:05] <mdke> yes, but either way, the translations need to be stored in rosetta
[12:05] <janimo> currently I could not say more to them then try rosetta :)
[12:05] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ maybe helps
[12:05] <janimo> there's the import step.
[12:05] <janimo> it doesn't :)
[12:06] <janimo> I did not find the exact steps
[12:06] <janimo> import once then export from time to time?
[12:07] <janimo> the reason i wanted to upload thunar was to play around myself and see what it actually takes
[12:08] <mdke> janimo, you import pot files (templates), then whenever you need the po files (translations), you can export them. The pot templates should be updated whenever there is a new release, or whatever
[12:08] <janimo> and those who don;t translate though the web interface
[12:09] <janimo> how do they get their stuff in rosetta to be exportable?
[12:09] <mdke> hang on
[12:09] <mdke> oh i see
[12:09] <mdke> janimo, they just translate offline, then upload via the interface
[12:09] <jordi> they can import their file when they are done working offline
[12:09] <mdke> ah hi jordi 
[12:09] <jordi> the only benefit of doing this is that others don't duplicate their effort, as their language is up to date in rosetta
[12:09] <janimo> but in this case for those prefering emacs, rosetta is actually an extra step with no advantages
[12:09] <jordi> hello
[12:10] <jordi> yes
[12:10] <janimo> hello :)
[12:10] <mdke> janimo, no, because if they prefer emacs, they would have to upload the file somewhere anyway (like cvs or whatever)
[12:10] <mdke> so it is just uploading it to rosetta instead of to cvs
[12:11] <jordi> for the application maintainer, it is actually easier to have everything in rosetta as getting all the translations is only 1 click away
[12:11] <mdke> yup
[12:11] <janimo> in the xfce case there's one person who uploadx po file sto svn for all ttranslators I think
[12:11] <mdke> and for the individual translator, it's the same
[12:11] <mdke> janimo, how does that one person get the po files?
[12:11] <mdke> by email?
[12:11] <jordi> I assume they email him
[12:11] <janimo> ok so individual translators need LP account and into the ubuntu-i10n-locale teams right?
[12:12] <janimo> I don;t know they coordinate through xfce-i18n mailing list
[12:12] <janimo> I suppose email
[12:12] <mdke> janimo, the ubuntu-l10n groups are for ubuntu translation
[12:12] <mdke> so instead of emailing him, they upload to rosetta. He gets them from there instead of having to pick them up individually from his email
[12:12] <janimo> so can they be just LP members given translation privs by the project owner?
[12:13] <mdke> janimo, yeah you can make a group for translating the project, i think
[12:13] <jordi> although this is discouraged and only done if really needed
[12:13] <janimo> currently there are 5 groups I think (gnome, ubuntu, plone and two more)
[12:13] <jordi> ie, if xfce has already established teams and so on
[12:13] <mdke> jordi, oh really? how come?
[12:14] <jordi> I need to go
[12:14] <jordi> mdke: we recommend new stuff using ubuntu teams, unless they have special reqs
[12:14] <janimo> there's an xfce project I set up, nothing more I know about in LP
[12:14] <mdke> oh, but in the case of gnome/xfce/kde whatever, they will most likely have special reqs
[12:14] <jordi> for example the GNU stuff needed a team as the members of that group need to have their snailmail paperwork in place with the FSF etc
[12:14] <jordi> nod
[12:15] <jordi> I really need to go
[12:15] <jordi> ttyl
[12:15] <mdke> have a nice sunday jordi 
[12:15] <mdke> janimo, is this any clearer now?
[12:15] <janimo> somewhat clearer, thanks
[12:15] <mdke> :)
[12:17] <poningru> I had a question is there a overflow blocking bug?
[12:17] <poningru> like where the text from one column overflow to the other columns?
[12:18] <mdke> poningru, there are loads of them :)
[12:18] <poningru> I cant find the dependency bug for the life of me
[12:18] <mdke> what particular overflow have you got there?
[12:18] <poningru> but which one is the main bug?
[12:18] <mdke> poningru, there are different bugs depending on where the overflows are
[12:19] <poningru> hmm ic
[12:19] <poningru> but usually in bugzillas you have the tracking bug
[12:19] <poningru> do we have something like that here?
[12:19] <mdke> no i don't think so, because they are all different bugs
[12:20] <poningru> hmm ok
[12:20] <mdke> like bug 28824
[12:20] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28824 in launchpad "E-mail addresses overflow the portlet on a person page" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28824
[12:20] <mdke> bug 929
[12:21] <Ubugtu> malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
[12:21] <poningru> yeah ic
[12:21] <poningru> hmm
[12:22] <mpt__> There are no dependency bugs in Launchpad
[12:22] <poningru> oh
[12:22] <mpt__> but I've given most of them summaries of the form "3-column layout is too narrow for *"
[12:23] <poningru> see I am experiencing unclickability of links due to 929
[12:23] <mpt__> however, I didn't do that for 28824 because that one isn't to do with the overall page layout
[12:24] <poningru> so I wanted to create a bug and just have it 'linked' to 929 how do I do that?
[12:24] <poningru> just add it in a comment?
[12:25] <poningru> let me know if I am not making any sense
[12:25] <mpt__> poningru, click "Edit Description" and explain the cross-reference at the end of the description
[12:26] <poningru> ok
[12:28] <mpt__> top right!
[12:29] <mpt__> oh, wait
[12:29] <mpt__> if you haven't reported the bug yet, just mention "bug 929" in the description when you do report it :-)
[12:30] <poningru> yeah
[12:30] <poningru> def
[12:33] <poningru> bug  29977
[12:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29977 in launchpad "Links become unclickable due to bug 929" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29977
[12:33] <poningru> woah
[12:33] <poningru> Ubugtu: bot snack
[12:34] <poningru> Seveas: thats a fast updating bot
[12:34] <Seveas> poningru, it's not updating, it pulls live from malone :)
[12:34] <poningru> hehe nice
[12:36] <mpt__> not really nice, it's screen-scraping
[12:36] <poningru> wait isnt it just getting it from the db?
[12:36] <poningru> or using like some crazy http hack?
[12:38] <Seveas> crazy html hack
[12:38] <Seveas> but daf is making something that makes that easier and less hackish
[12:38] <poningru> awesome
[12:38] <poningru> malone def takes some getting used to
[12:39] <mdke> me too
[12:39] <mdke> malone will improve a lot now though
[12:39] <poningru> I dont understand why it was switched to mid project though
[12:40] <poningru> should the switch have waited till april?
[12:40] <poningru> err may
[12:44] <mpt__> poningru_sleep, as I understand it it was done not entirely for the benefit of Ubuntu, but partly also for the benefit of Launchpad itself
[12:45] <mpt__> (perhaps "entirely" should be "necessarily")
[12:45] <poningru_sleep> hmm ic
[12:46] <poningru_sleep> meh I should get some sleep
[12:46] <poningru_sleep> night guys
[12:48] <mdke> night
[12:49] <mdke> mpt__, if ubuntu-docs is using products for bug reporting, should we also put translations there, or in ubuntu/dapper?
[12:49] <mdke> although I don't really know whether it is using products for bug reporting or not, I get really confused by this upstream/downstream thing
[12:50] <mpt__> well, Ubuntu docs are a special case, because they're designed largely for Ubuntu in particular
[12:51] <mpt__> but to the extent that they can be branched for use in derivative distros, it makes sense for them to be treated as products.
[12:51] <mdke> in the past translation has been done in the distro
[12:51] <mdke> hmm
[12:52] <mdke> we also have some kubuntu-docs things we want to translate, I don't know whether to put that in the same project, or make a new one
[12:52] <mpt__> so that derivative translators don't need to re-translate paragraphs that aren't brand-specific.
[12:52] <mdke> so confusing *cries*
[03:06] <dsas> Hi, could someone tell me how to close a bug I've opened?
[03:06] <mdke> dsas, click on the status, mark as fixed/rejected/whatever
[03:07] <dsas> ahh ok, didn't realise that was clickable, didn't look like a hyperlink...
[03:09] <mdke> dsas, file that as a bug in malone, if it isn't already reported
[03:10] <dsas> mdke: sure
[04:02] <hannosch> jordi: you around?
[04:39] <jordi> hannosch: hey
[04:50] <hannosch> jordi: heya! I have one little problem, one of my imported po files ended up under the wrong template
[04:54] <jordi> oh no
[04:54] <jordi> which?
[04:55] <jordi> the new import method is currently quite error prone
[04:55] <hannosch> jordi: look at https://launchpad.net/products/plonesoftwarecenter/+translations the pt_BR file should be under plonesoftwarecenter
[04:56] <hannosch> jordi: and there should be no plonehelpcenter template there at all ;)
[04:56] <jordi> you mean plonehelpcenter?
[04:56] <jordi> oh
[04:56] <jordi> fuck
[04:57] <jordi> I'll see if I can sort this up
[04:57] <jordi> I think I can luckily
[04:57] <hannosch> jordi: great, or create a new ticket, 'Random experts should be able to clean the import mess up' ;)
[04:59] <jordi> hannosch: lol
[04:59] <jordi> ok
[04:59] <jordi> I can't. I get an OOPS
[04:59] <jordi> I'll try to get carlos fix this up.
[05:00] <hannosch> jordi: do you have some time for another question?
[05:00] <jordi> yes
[05:02] <hannosch> it's a bit of a general problem with all files from the Plone world. For a number of reasons we ended up putting ids into the msgid lines and using a special comment for the real text, this leads to some problems, have you heard of this from any other projects or is this a really special thing?
[05:04] <hannosch> so a entry in a german file might look like: #: Default: "View" msgid "label_view" msgstr "Ansicht"
[05:05] <jordi> wow, that looks like a bad idea :(
[05:05] <jordi> it basically breaks what the format is designed for
[05:09] <hannosch> well it tries to circumvent some of the problems the format has, the two biggest ones are the inability to distinguish the same word depending on some context and it prevents translations to be lost completly just because a typo was fixed in the original text, which especially for some large texts is nasty
[05:09] <jordi> the format has introduced a fix for this in the next gettext version
[05:09] <jordi> there will be an extra field that will disambiguate
[05:09] <hannosch> I know, I have seen some notes about it
[05:10] <hannosch> but it will take some time before it's implemented in all the tools...
[05:11] <jordi> true
[05:12] <jordi> but as soon as rosetta, poedit, kbabel and gtranslator do support it, it'll be mostly done
[05:12] <jordi> I can see poedit and kbabel adding support quite soonish
[05:13] <hannosch> ok, the main question is when will rosetta support it ;)
[05:14] <jordi> heh. I can't answer that.
[05:14] <jordi> there's a bug filed.
[05:15] <jordi> I guess the priority will be upped when gettext is released
[05:15] <hannosch> as I have written some customized tools to extract/merge po files for Plone I could implement this right away and change our format ;)
[05:17] <jordi> cool.
[05:17] <jordi> but back to your weird format... :)
[05:18] <hannosch> actually it's not that much of a problem, the only two things I've noticed which aren't optimal is the size of the msgstr textfield in rosetta and the lack of support for translation memory / suggestions
[05:18] <jordi> can't you use GTK-like context markers?
[05:18] <jordi> like msgid "verb|Kick"
[05:18] <hannosch> never heard of them ;)
[05:20] <jordi> hm
[05:21] <jordi> msgid "year measurement template|2000"
[05:21] <jordi> msgid "calendar year format|%Y"
[05:21] <jordi> nmsgid "Navigation|_First"
[05:22] <jordi> nmsgid "keyboard label|Page_Up"
[05:22] <jordi> etc
[05:22] <jordi> it's msgid, not nmsgid
[05:23] <hannosch> ok, but I cannot see the big advantage of these, compared to our approach.
[05:24] <hannosch> the id is still not the real text which renders translation sharing useless
[05:25] <hannosch> or do you have implemented support for this special syntax?
[05:34] <jordi> I don't think. Would be easier to do though.
[05:35] <jordi> the advantage is that the context is in the msgid still
[05:35] <jordi> you you break the format... slightly
[05:36] <hannosch> well I know, but it works quite fine, translating with rosetta also works as the comment is presented exactly above the text box
[05:36] <jordi> nod
[05:37] <hannosch> ok. I think there is nothing we can do about it right now, execpt to prepare for the new gettext format
[05:47] <hannosch> jordi: thx for your time, you are most helpful as always :)
[05:58] <jordi> hannosch: not really ;)
[05:59] <hannosch> jordi: I don't expect you to have a cure for any self-made problem ;)
[06:01] <hannosch> My only hope was that Zope3 itself uses the same pattern, so I thought maybe some developer already stumbled upon it :)
[06:01] <jordi> hehe
[06:23] <jordi> bacon, chicken and mushrooms
[07:27] <zyga> is there any cli tool that can upload translations to rosetta?
[08:00] <pmjdebruijn> hello
[08:00] <pmjdebruijn> rosetta seems to have issues exporting certain .mo files (nl, fr).
[08:00] <pmjdebruijn> I've had this issue for some time, and the admins 'have been notified' multiple times
[08:02] <zyga> pmjdebruijn: bad time to catch devs
[08:02] <zyga> pmjdebruijn: try during the weekend
[08:02] <pmjdebruijn> zyga, it's Sunday
[08:03] <pmjdebruijn> zyga, you mean during the week
[08:04] <zyga> pmjdebruijn: right, sorry :-)
[08:04] <zyga> weekdays
[08:08] <pmjdebruijn> zyga, ok thankyou