[12:23] <poningru> a usability question
[12:24] <poningru> do we want to put things like 'you are not the owner, so you cant change the permission of this file'
[12:25] <poningru> I mean when its a family computer people will go huh?
[12:25] <poningru> 'I am the owner damn it'
[12:25] <poningru> think*
[12:35] <MrRio> poningru: This file requires special permissions for security reasons.
[12:35] <MrRio> ?
[12:35] <MrRio> after all, explaining the exact purpose of permissions is going to be the most sensible
[09:28] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, good morning :)
[10:04] <Keybuk> hmm, ok, I can see the n-m light today
[10:04] <Keybuk> laptop just worked, and dealt with getting on "ubuntu" itself
[10:05] <ajmitch> excellent
[10:05] <pitti> \o/
[10:05] <Treenaks> Keybuk: how about WPA? :)
[10:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: madwifi-ng?
[10:05] <mjg59> pitti: n-m, or WPA?
[10:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah
[10:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: Rock
[10:05] <Keybuk> Treenaks: I don't care about that right now ... a working n-m for the basic usecase is the first goal
[10:05] <pitti> mjg59: I gave up on WPA after fiddling with that on debconf5 for an hour
[10:05] <Keybuk> we'll deal with cute features later
[10:06] <pitti> mjg59: n-m would be nice
[10:06] <mjg59> pitti: So how does it currently fail?
[10:06] <Keybuk> pitti: please test it!  install it from universe
[10:06] <pitti> mjg59: I didn't touch it since some months, I tried it three times in the past and it always wrecked my networking completely
[10:06] <ajmitch> latest n-m cotd is uploaded?
[10:06] <Keybuk> pitti: please install it toda
[10:07] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll do it today while you are in my physical range :)
[10:07] <Keybuk> pitti: otherwise it'll be in main/desktop before you can stop it
[10:07] <ajmitch> pitti: fyi, I've got monolithic selinux policy loaded, modularised policy is still giving me a few issues - but progress is being made :)
[10:08] <mjg59> Keybuk: Anyway, it's quite nice when it's working, isn't it?
[10:08] <mjg59> Keybuk: We still need to figure out how to deal with the (a) connect on boot and (b) static IP cases
[10:09] <mdke> morning all
[10:09] <sivang> hi all
[10:10] <Keybuk> mjg59: leave both to ifup?
[10:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: In that case we probably want to add code to nm to avoid it touching interfaces with static configuration
[10:12] <mjg59> Or, at least, to tell it to just up them (like netapplet did) rather than anything else
[10:12] <Keybuk> mjg59: my job, today :)
[10:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: Excellent
[10:17] <mjg59> People - it would be massively helpful if you could test gnome-power-manager
[10:18] <Treenaks> mjg59: installing [can't test from here though, will do tonight] 
[10:18] <mjg59> Install it and libpam-foreground, log out, log in, run gnome-power-manager and play with it
[10:19] <Treenaks> is  'fixing X bugs' planned?
[10:21] <slomo> mjg59: suspend/hibernate doesn't work with g-p-m here... known problem?
[10:21] <mjg59> slomo: In what way?
[10:21] <fabbione> hey slomo
[10:21] <slomo> mjg59: nothing happens ;)
[10:21] <fabbione> slomo: did you get my fix for xine-lib?
[10:21] <slomo> fabbione: yes, thanks :)
[10:22] <fabbione> slomo: perfect
[10:22] <fabbione> slomo: we mighht fix that in the tool chain directly
[10:22] <fabbione> so you don't need to worry about that
[10:22] <mjg59> slomo: Do you have libpam-foreground installed?
[10:23] <slomo> mjg59: installed it now... i'll test in a few minutes... so that was the problem?
[10:24] <mjg59> slomo: If you don't have that, it won't work
[10:24] <slomo> mjg59: ok, thanks... well, i'll report all other bugs i notice to you :)
[10:24] <mjg59> You need to log out and in for it to have any effect (alternatively, sudo touch /var/run/console/username:7
[10:25] <ajmitch> mjg59: by 'stuff happening', does that include system shutdown?
[10:26] <ajmitch> once I went to the power settings in preferences
[10:26] <mjg59> ajmitch: ?
[10:27] <ajmitch> mjg59: it was a surprise to me as well
[10:27] <mjg59> ajmitch: Uhm. "Stuff happening"?
[10:27] <mjg59> ajmitch: No, that certainly shouldn't happen
[10:27] <ajmitch> mjg59: sorry, I installed both those, touched that file, went to the power settings in preferences
[10:28] <ajmitch> and it started shutting down - I'm fairly sure I didn't accidentally hit something
[10:28] <mjg59> Which preferences?
[10:28] <ajmitch> waiting for fsck to finish now (30 mounts)
[10:28] <ajmitch> power management
[10:28] <slomo> mjg59: works fine, thanks
[10:28] <mjg59> slomo: Cool
[10:28] <ajmitch> under system->preferences
[10:28] <mjg59> ajmitch: System/preferences/power management ?
[10:28] <mjg59> Right
[10:29] <mjg59> No, there's no code in g-p-m to do that
[10:29] <mjg59> It never requests a shutdown
[10:29] <ajmitch> I didn't think it would
[10:29] <ajmitch> so it must have been something else I did
[10:29] <mjg59> Why does inkscape look nothing like any other gtk apps?
[10:29] <ajmitch> maybe even hitting the power button, it's in an annoying place
[10:30] <mjg59> The icons are all tiny
[10:30] <mjg59> And the toolbars are draggable even though I've got that switched off
[10:32] <Keybuk> ...anyone got a usb-2 cable in here?
[10:32] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: usb2-to-?
[10:32] <Keybuk> standard mini plug
[10:33] <ajmitch> mjg59: ok, I went to the preferences again & it's shutting down
[10:33] <ajmitch> so it wasn't a fluke
[10:33] <Treenaks> mjg59: file bugs :)
[10:33] <Treenaks> mjg59: (re: inkscape)
[10:34] <mjg59> ajmitch: Hrngle rrck.
[10:34] <ajmitch> one could say that
[10:34] <hunger> Keybuk: I think my USB HD has one... shall I test something?
[10:35] <mjg59> ajmitch: Can you do strace -o ~/g-p-m.out gnome-power-preferences from a terminal and then stick the output somewhere?
[10:35] <sivang> my evo and game are back :)
[10:36] <Mithrandir> hunger: I think he needed it for his camera.  I just borrowed him one
[10:36] <ajmitch> sure, just trying to boot
[10:36] <Keybuk> hunger: was directed at those physically in the same room as me :)  I'm too lazy to go to my hotel room for one :p
[10:36] <mjg59> ajmitch: Thanks
[10:36] <hunger> Mithrandir: I suspected something like that but still wanted to offer the limited service I can:-)
[10:37] <hunger> Keybuk: Tried asking around in the real world? ;-)
[10:37] <Keybuk> hunger: in the middle of the talk, it'd be rude :)
[10:38] <hunger> Keybuk: I remember once having a chat with 3 guys while I was at an trade show... I told them that I had to run since I was on a trade show and wanted to catch a talk. We discovered at that time that all 4 of us were sitting on the same table in the cafe:-)
[10:39] <ajmitch> mjg59: bad news is that it only shuts down when run from system->preferences
[10:39] <hunger> Ahhh... the wonders of IRC;-)
[10:39] <ajmitch> within a second of starting it
[10:40] <mjg59> ajmitch: Christ. Fuck knows.
[10:40] <mjg59> ajmitch: Running it without strace still doesn't trigger it?
[10:40] <Keybuk> hmm, battery on this thing sucks
[10:40] <ajmitch> I'll try that next
[10:42] <mjg59> ajmitch: By shuts down, it powers down gracefully or it hard powers off?
[10:42] <ajmitch> yeah, it triggers it, getting the 'going down for halt' message 
[10:42] <ajmitch> graceful stop
[10:42] <mjg59> ajmitch: But not under strace?
[10:42] <mjg59> Hnngh.
[10:42] <ajmitch> I saw I had sudo in there with strace, removing that now
[10:42] <mjg59> Ah
[10:42] <mjg59> Yeah, it'd behave differently with sudo
[10:43] <ajmitch> good thing bootup is fast now
[10:46] <mjg59> non-DSDT sleep keys won't currently work in g-p-m (this means Toshibas, Sonys, Panasonics and IBMs won't work quite as expected) yet. This will be fixed once I've sorted the final approach with hal upstream.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: gnome-games-data takes _forever_ to install due to gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule taking forever.
[10:48] <seb128> yeah, I know, not a lot we can do :/
[10:48] <Mithrandir> can't gconftool-2 take more than one argument?  I guess that could speed it up somewhat?
[10:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, you didnt upgrade gnome-applets-data yet 
[10:49] <seb128> applets or games are quite the same
[10:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, I was looking on that just before the sprint
[10:49] <Treenaks> ogra: it's still quite fast on my dual 3 GHz Xeon though ;)
[10:50] <seb128> seems that we can do it twice faster by changing gconf-schemas, I need to try some stuff and bug Josselin (who did it for Debian) about it
[10:51] <ajmitch> mjg59: http://tiber.tauware.de/~ajmitch/gpm2.out.gz
[10:56] <mpt_> mdz or seb128 or dholbach or whoever: Would you be okay with using "Critical" severity in Malone to track Blocker bugs, or would you want a separate "Blocker" value?
[10:57] <mpt_> as in, release blockers
[10:59] <seb128> severity is enough imho
[11:00] <seb128> if it's easy enough to list all the bugs with that setting and the dapper milestone
[11:00] <mpt_> yes, I'm asking about the *values* of severity
[11:00] <mpt_> Currently severity has ... Normal, Major, Critical
[11:01] <mpt_> Do you need a Blocker on top of that?
[11:01] <mpt_> ... Normal, Major, Critical, Blocker
[11:01] <Mithrandir> can you give an example of a critical bug which is not a blocker?
[11:02] <Kamion> I don't see a particular need for a separate Blocker
[11:03] <mpt_> ok, me neither
[11:03] <mpt_> but I couldn't tell if they were distinguished in Bugzilla, because I can't do reports in Bugzilla any more :-)
[11:04] <mjg59> ajmitch: Weird. I can't find any reason for that to happen.
[11:05] <mjg59> ajmitch: For some reason, gnome-power-preferences seems to crash
[11:05] <mjg59> ajmitch: If you move /usr/share/scripts/hal-system-power-shutdown somewhere else, what does it do?
[11:07] <ajmitch> it doesn't shutdown or appear to crash 
[11:08] <ajmitch> though I get a few warnings on the terminal
[11:08] <ajmitch> ** (gnome-power-preferences:5717): WARNING **: Couldn't connect to PowerManager Process /usr/bin/gnome-power-manager exited with status 0
[11:11] <Keybuk> so ... what's a good video editor?
[11:11] <Keybuk> need to be able to open files, convert them, maybe cut them and add captions
[11:11] <ajmitch> mjg59: I suspect it's related to my laptop showing 0% battery, even when on AC
[11:11] <mjg59> ajmitch: Ah. Possible.
[11:12] <Treenaks> ajmitch: broken dsdt?
[11:12] <ajmitch> Treenaks: acer
[11:12] <Treenaks> ajmitch: ah.. I know that problem
[11:12] <mjg59> ajmitch: Yeah, that'd be it. Right, it needs to be more resiliant to that.
[11:12] <mjg59> ajmitch: Even though we should have your machine fixed...
[11:12] <Treenaks> BenC: (the acpi-ec in the kernel isn't acpi-ec-i2c, so I still can't read battery status, btw)
[11:12] <mjg59> Treenaks: ?
[11:12] <ajmitch> mjg59: I didn't see that patch in the changelog
[11:13] <mjg59> ajmitch: No, it's not in yet
[11:13] <Treenaks> mjg59: my Acer laptop has a buggy DSDT
[11:13] <mjg59> Treenaks: Uhm. What does that have to do with acpi-ec?
[11:13] <Treenaks> mjg59: or a perfectly OK one, actually.. as long as you have a driver to read battery status over I2C
[11:13] <mjg59> Treenaks: The acpi-ec driver in the kernel should be the one you need for the smart battery driver to work
[11:13] <Treenaks> mjg59: I can read battery status over I2C from my ACPI EC device
[11:14] <mjg59> Treenaks: You can, or in theory you can?
[11:14] <Treenaks> mjg59: I could, in Debian using a self-compiled-and-patched kernel using lmsensors
[11:14] <Treenaks> mjg59: I can't, in current dapper
[11:14] <Treenaks> mjg59: with stock kernel
[11:14] <mjg59> Treenaks: Right, so it's a smart battery
[11:14] <Treenaks> mjg59: yes
[11:14] <mjg59> That /ought/ to be fixed for dapper
[11:14] <mjg59> But isn't yet
[11:15] <mjg59> I have no test hardware, so it's a pain
[11:15] <mjg59> I'll push a patch to Ben
[11:15] <Treenaks> mjg59: I do, just shout on IRC if you need testing
[11:16] <ajmitch> Treenaks: and I thought I did, but I don't :)
[11:27] <mdz> mpt_: the existing severities are sufficient for me
[11:38] <mpt_> mdz, thanks
[12:00] <fabbione> siretart: ping?
[12:16] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, ping
[12:17] <Kamion> mantiena-baltix: I asked you to mail me; please stop pinging me on IRC
[12:17] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, ok, but if you can, ten please tell me where is changed (set) value of grub-installer/bootdev debconf setting, which is used in grub-installer script (espresso-grub package)  :)
[12:17] <Kamion> PLEASE MAIL ME
[12:17] <Kamion> thank you :)
[12:18] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, no problem, I know how to copy/paste from Xchat to mutt ;)
[12:18] <Kamion> when you're requesting help from somebody, please in future respect the communications method they ask for
[12:20] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, ok, no problems for me, I just think, that if you are not bussy, then maybe for you and me would be to talk here ;)
[12:20] <Kamion> I am busy.
[12:21] <Kamion> I've told you this multiple times and you've just been obnoxious.
[12:21] <Kamion> please, please stop it.
[12:29] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, I don't wanna be obnoxious, sorry if I make you any troubles
[12:30] <segfault> weird, the packages python-twisted python2.3-twisted python2.4-twisted, are in loop. every time i upgrade them, they appear as upgradable again. can anyone confirm this?
[12:30] <Treenaks> segfault: had this yesterday
[12:30] <Treenaks> segfault: apt-get --purge remove + apt-get install fixed
[12:30] <segfault> treenaks: thanks, will do that
[12:39] <siretart> fabbione: pong
[12:40] <fabbione> siretart: people.fabbione.net/~fabbione/xine.diff
[12:41] <fabbione> it's already uploaded, but you have the diff in the meanwhile
[12:41] <fabbione> in theory you should run autoreconf
[12:41] <fabbione> but it was spitting errors to me
[12:42] <fabbione> so i did propagate the changes to configure.ac to configure manually
[12:43] <fabbione> siretart: slomo did logout too fast this morning for me to give him the patch :)
[12:43] <pitti> hey carlos 
[12:43] <carlos> pitti: hi
[12:45] <siretart> fabbione: thanks :)
[12:45] <fabbione> siretart: no pro
[12:46] <fabbione> the bug was upstream tho.
[12:46] <fabbione> they didn't merge all the changes from David miller
[12:47] <siretart> I'll add that to our xine svn, no problem
[12:54] <hunger> segfault: There are bugs open about this issue.
[12:55] <Keybuk> hmm, who knows about ogg theora?
[12:55] <Treenaks> Keybuk: a bit..
[12:56] <Yagisan> Keybuk: in what way ?
[12:56] <Keybuk> I have a $RANDOM_MPEG and want to convert it into a smaller ogg for distributing
[12:56] <Treenaks> Keybuk: ffmpeg2theora
[12:56] <Keybuk> and don't know how, trying to brutalise ffmpeg doesn't seem to be working
[12:56] <Yagisan> Keybuk: mencoder + theora support ??
[12:56] <Keybuk> Treenaks: where would I find that?
[12:56] <hunger> Treenaks: purging and reinstalling python-twisted does not make the issue go away for me.
[12:56] <Treenaks> Keybuk: there is/was a package in debian, but that's very outdated
[12:56] <Keybuk> ffmpeg -formats claims vorbis and theora
[12:57] <Keybuk> Output #0, ogg, to 'test.ogg':
[12:57] <Keybuk>   Stream #0.0: Video: 0x0000, yuv420p, 720x576, 25.00 fps, q=2-31, 200 kb/s
[12:57] <Keybuk>   Stream #0.1: Audio: vorbis, 48000 Hz, stereo, 64 kb/s
[12:57] <Keybuk> Unsupported codec for output stream #0.0
[12:57] <Keybuk> zsh: exit 1     ffmpeg -i MOV002.MOD -f ogg -vcodec theora test.ogg
[12:57] <Keybuk> is my current progress
[12:57] <Treenaks> Keybuk: http://www.v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/
[01:00] <Keybuk> Treenaks: ok, that seems to be working
[01:01] <Treenaks> Keybuk: it's used by kino (but not packaged properly :(
[01:03] <Kinnison> Does anyone else find theora unbearably slow?
[01:03] <Kinnison> Our amd64 box, with optimised libtheora can't manage more than a few frames per second
[01:04] <Kinnison> (PAL size video)
[01:04] <Treenaks> Kinnison: Playing theora files is a bit slow on older computers for me
[01:04] <Treenaks> Kinnison: it works fine on everything >1GHz (ish) for me
[01:04] <Kinnison> Treenaks: it was more the encoding than the playback I was complaining about
[01:04] <Treenaks> Kinnison: oh that.. yeah, encoding a 2-hour video takes 6 hours on my 2GHz machine
[01:09] <Keybuk> Kinnison: running dapper or breezy?
[01:09] <Yagisan> Kinnison: guess you haven tried h264/mpeg4 part 10 encoding then ;)
[01:09] <Yagisan> s/haven/haven't
[01:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: breezy, amd64, with self-built theora codecs using all the right optimisation flags
[01:10] <Kinnison> Yagisan: pardon?
[01:10] <Treenaks> Kinnison: ooh, on gentoo? :)
[01:10] <fabbione> [Tue Jan 31 13:10:31 2006]  [notice]  Apache/2.2.0 (Ubuntu) configured -- resuming normal operations
[01:10] <StevenK> fabbione: Fear.
[01:10] <Yagisan> Kinnison: theora is much faster compared to eg x264 and co
[01:11] <mjr> theora isn't that optimized indeed; one would hope that a fraction of the work going towards tuning free implementations of patent-encumbered codecs would go towards theora instead, but such is life
[01:11] <Treenaks> Kinnison: www.funroll-loops.org --> hand-optimized is l33t!!!
[01:12] <Kinnison> Treenaks: Don't accuse me of being a ricer or I'll delete your launchpad account

[01:12] <StevenK> Muahaha
[01:12] <mvo> Kinnison: is their theora-mmx branch useful?
[01:12] <StevenK> Kinnison: How about we accuse you of being a Gentoo user instead?
[01:12] <StevenK> Is that better?
[01:12] <Kinnison> mvo: Umm, I don't think so
[01:13] <StevenK> Awww.
[01:13] <Yagisan> StevenK: there's a difference ?? I never knew that
[01:13] <StevenK> Bwahaha
[01:13] <StevenK> Yagisan: Gentoo users are slightly more fanaticial ...
[01:16] <Yagisan> StevenK: yep. Must never tell them that on the p4 systems, they may get better performance with -OS rather then -O3 due to their puny caches. "hey lets unroll the loops so that they can't fit into the cache and can force mass cache evictions"
[01:16] <StevenK> Let's see if burning a DVD is acceptably fast now that DMA is actually turned on.
[01:17] <StevenK> Yagisan: I suspect most of them think that mass cache evictions only happen on Big Brother.
[01:17] <Yagisan> StevenK: my eyes! they are burning !!
[01:17] <Treenaks> /quit brb, cache eviction
[01:20] <Yagisan> Night StevenK
[01:22] <drag_behind> hey anyone awake?
[01:23] <drag_behind> well I just had a bad problem with a dapper upgrade but I cant be bothered joining the forums
[01:23] <drag_behind> so just thought Id say here that when upgrading it activated pcmcia services
[01:23] <drag_behind> which hung my machine
[01:23] <drag_behind> and kept breaking the booting
[01:24] <Yagisan> drag_behind: might be a good idea to report the bug at launchpad
[01:24] <drag_behind> where is that?
[01:25] <Yagisan> drag_behind: http://www.launchpad.net
[01:25] <drag_behind> ok will do
[01:36] <fabbione> mjg59: Jan 30 10:06:30 localhost su[10251] : PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/pam_fore
[01:36] <fabbione> ground.so)
[01:36] <fabbione> Jan 30 10:06:30 localhost su[10251] : PAM adding faulty module: /lib/security/pam
[01:36] <fabbione> _foreground.so
[01:36] <fabbione> Jan 30 10:06:31 localhost PAM-env[10251] : Unable to open config file: No such fi
[01:36] <fabbione> le or directory
[01:37] <mjg59> fabbione: Yup?
[01:37] <mjg59> If you don't have libpam-foreground installed, that's fairly reasonable
[01:38] <fabbione> mjg59: MEH
[01:38] <mjg59> fabbione: What do you expect it to do?
[01:38] <Menoz> hi all, I have a problem with ubuntu customization, can someone help me?
[01:38] <fabbione> i don't expect standard pam in main to try to use something that is not there by default
[01:38] <lucas> hi
[01:38] <mjg59> fabbione: It will be there by default
[01:39] <mjg59> You just get some log spew for now. Nothing is broken
[01:40] <lucas> I remember some ubuntu devs talking about an archive where one could find old versions of packages. like: I'm working on merging 1.0-3ubuntu1 and 1.0-4, but 1.0-3 is no longer in Debian.
[01:40] <lucas> snapshots.d.n clearly doesn't have all versions
[01:43] <lucas> what's the name of this archive ? how do I get access to it ?
[01:43] <seb128> lucas: it was snapshots but their disk had issues some months ago and they started from scrash again or something like that
[01:44] <lucas> I thought ubuntu had its own archive of this kind
[01:44] <seb128> no
[01:45] <seb128> Ubuntu has his packages but not the Debian packages we didn't ship
[01:45] <seb128> s/his/its
[01:46] <lucas> mmh, I'm interested in working on this, since it's a requirement for easier collaboration with debian
[01:46] <lucas> (scott's patches sucks when it diffs between very different debian versions)
[01:46] <Kamion> I suppose if you had another machine with lots and lots of terabytes of disk you could try to duplicate snapshot.d.n
[01:46] <segfault> can anyone please build mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail for 1.5? :)
[01:46] <Kamion> seems a bit pointless, but up to you
[01:47] <Kamion> (since you could just as easily have disk issues ...)
[01:47] <ajmitch> Kamion: depends if those old versions still lived somewhere, I guess
[01:47] <lucas> Kaloz: you don't need to keep all old versions
[01:47] <lucas> Kamion sorry
[01:47] <lucas> just the one which are potentially useful for ubuntu developers
[01:48] <hunger> Cool the python-twisted reinstall bug is gone with the newest version.
[01:48] <Kamion> hunger: yeah, we discussed it here and established the cause
[01:49] <Kamion> 0: epochs bad
[01:49] <hunger> Kamion: Great! Thanks for fixing this really annoying issue.
[01:50] <Kamion> wasn't me :)
[01:50] <Keybuk> lucas: yes, blame elmo for the morgue of love lacking the intermediate versions
[01:51] <hunger> Kamion: Well, doko is not around afaict.
[01:51] <lucas> Keybuk: how can I help fix this ? :-)
[01:51] <Keybuk> lucas: i'm not sure you can
[01:51] <Keybuk> I don't really understand why the morgue lacks them
[01:52] <herzi> seb128: can you take a quick look at 30147, this one is really ugly
[01:52] <lucas> mmh, can I raise the issue at TB meeting tonight ?
[01:52] <Kamion> if you don't have shell access to spohr.debian.org, it's probably unlikely that you'd be able to help
[01:52] <Keybuk> there's no TB decision to made, is there?
[01:52] <stub>  Launchpad is going down in 20 minutes, which will put the wikis into read only mode as well. Estimated down time is 10 minutes. This is for the regular weekly code and database update.
[01:53] <Kamion> lucas: it's a Debian ftpmaster issue surely, not Ubuntu TB
[01:53] <Mez> mdz/Kamion ping
[01:53] <Kamion> Mez: hm?
[01:53] <Keybuk> lucas: if you have a multi-terabyte disk array, and gargantuan amounts of bandwidth, and can build your own equivalent to snapshot.debian.net ... then that would be useful ;)
[01:53] <lucas> Kamion,Keybuk: couldn't Ubuntu have its own archive of "potentially useful" packages ?
[01:53] <Kamion> lucas: not retrospectively, no
[01:54] <lucas> we don't need that much space
[01:54] <Keybuk> *choke*gasp*
[01:54] <Keybuk> yes, we do
[01:54] <Mez> Kamion: wondering if I can get an OK to sync the latest rar package from debian - contravenes the UVF - but fixes a couple of vulnerabilities in the code
[01:54] <lucas> current_size_of_source_archives * 2 is enough in the worst case
[01:54] <Keybuk> no, it's not
[01:54] <seb128> herzi: ask to ogra, he maintains that theme
[01:54] <lucas> * 3 maybe
[01:54] <Keybuk> you need the entire history of source for at least the past year
[01:55] <herzi> ogra: can you take a quick look at 30147?
[01:55] <Keybuk> though you could opportunistically cull that
[01:55] <lucas> Keybuk: you only need versions on which ubuntu versions are based
[01:55] <seb128> herzi: and the package source is gnome-icon-theme-gartoon
[01:55] <Kamion> Mez: UVF exceptions for universe/multiverse go through dholbach rather than being sent to us directly
[01:55] <herzi> seb128: it's not
[01:55] <Mez> o_o
[01:55] <herzi> there are only two sources called gnome-icon-theme*
[01:55] <seb128> herzi: gartoon
[01:55] <herzi> maybe then
[01:55] <dholbach> Mez: read ubuntu-motu@
[01:55] <seb128> $ apt-cache showsrc gartoon
[01:55] <seb128> Package: gartoon
[01:55] <seb128> Binary: gnome-icon-theme-gartoon
[01:55] <Mez> Kamion: oh poop - sorry got mixed up - thought it was in restricted :D
[01:56] <Kamion> very little is in restricted
[01:56] <Mez> Kamion: apologies - slightly confused
[01:56] <Kamion> ~np
[01:56] <lucas> what's the current size of the sources archive ?
[01:56] <lucas> (for one version)
[01:57] <ogra> herzi, will fix that during the day, seems trivial
[02:08] <Kamion> lucas: I think it's 13GB for dapper, although I may have done the sums wrong
[02:08] <lucas> ok, thanks
[02:09] <lucas> so it's not _that_ big
[02:09] <Kamion> that's just from zcat ftp/dists/dapper/*/source/Sources.gz and a couple of nasty greps and awks
[02:09] <herzi> i have an infinite loop in an init script, what's the appropriate severity for a bug report?
[02:09] <herzi> critical?
[02:09] <Diziet> Try   date -d 'next month'
[02:09] <lucas> I've added this as a TB item, saying I'm willing to work on this if ubuntu can provide some disk space somewhere
[02:10] <lucas> off to a meeting now
[02:49] <dooglus> in dapper, almost all of the x.org graphic drivers and input drivers are uninstalled by default.  which ones do I need to install?
[02:49] <dooglus> sorry, wrong channel.
[03:28] <Keybuk> mjg59: what do I need to touch to avoid logging out?
[03:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: /var/run/console/username:vt
[03:30] <mjg59> So /var/run/console/keybuk:7 or whatever
[03:33] <Keybuk> that exists already
[03:33] <Keybuk> weird
[03:39] <mjg59> Implies that you had it installed already
[03:43] <Keybuk> nope
[03:43] <Keybuk> weird
[03:43] <Keybuk> I must have done something that caused it to be created
[03:48] <pitti> Keybuk: I could circumvent the kernel oops which killed my keyboard :)
[03:48] <jsgotangco> hiya mako__ 
[03:49] <Keybuk> pitti: oh?
[03:58] <zul> hey jeff
[03:58] <jbailey> Heya Chuck1
[04:24] <sivang> jbailey: thanks for fixing #28640 =)
[04:26] <jbailey> bug 28640
[04:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28640 in glibc "libc6 crash on certain UTF8 encoded filename" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28640
[04:26] <jbailey> sivang: Does the fix work for you?
[04:27] <sivang> jbailey: wonderfully :) I got my gaim and evo back 
[04:27] <sivang> jbailey: couldn't use them before.
[04:27] <jbailey> Cool, thanks
[04:54] <mdke> hey dholbach 
[04:54] <dholbach> hey mdke
[04:55] <mdke> dholbach, what time are you around this evening?
[04:55] <Mithrandir> mdke: I hear rumours of you coming to visit us?
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ouch a lawyer will be visiting that's bad
[04:55] <dholbach> mdke: I should be around the whole evening. :)
[04:55] <dholbach> haha
[04:55] <mdke> Mithrandir, i hope so
[04:55] <Mithrandir> mdke: \o/
[04:55] <mdke> i just don't wanna turn up while you're all at dinner or something
[04:57] <Mithrandir> we're eating at around 1930-ish, iirc
[04:57] <mdke> ah hrm
[04:58] <mdke> i'll be off work at 6, I'll go home, eat and then aim to turn up after that then I think
[04:59] <dholbach> Cool.
[05:02] <Keybuk> Nafallo, mjg59: so far we have n-m success with ipw, madwifi-ng, bcm43xx and prism54
[05:03] <Keybuk> and failure with linux-wlan-ng, gem, airo, and whatever mvo's dodgy one is
[05:03] <Lathiat> do we have the scanning patch for orinoco in?
[05:03] <Keybuk> might have been an orinoco
[05:03] <Lathiat> thats a very common card (at least around here)
[05:03] <Keybuk> "scanning patch" ?
[05:03] <Lathiat> Keybuk: that allows for iwlist scan 
[05:03] <Lathiat> its not in the kernel
[05:03] <Lathiat> at least not up to a bit back
[05:03] <Lathiat> dunno if it was merged recently
[05:04] <Keybuk> if not, bug BenC
[05:04] <Keybuk> I think I may add some code to n-m to make it only show interfaces it's known to work with
[05:04] <zul> no scanning patch if i remmeber clearly
[05:04] <mdke> are you looking for dodgy wifi cards? i have a dodgy acx111 I could bring along
[05:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: There's an airo patch on the n-m mailing list
[05:05] <mjg59> What's gem?
[05:05] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/wlan.png 
[05:05] <Kinnison> Keybuk: so long as that can be overridden in a config file
[05:05] <mjg59> Oh, the wired?
[05:05] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I.E. if I know my <foo> card is supported even though n-m doesn't think it is, I can tell it without recompilation
[05:05] <Lathiat> interesting
[05:05] <Lathiat> the eth2 card sems to show all the essids i've used in the past while
[05:06] <Lathiat> i assume thats an intended feature
[05:06] <Lathiat> (since it can't scan, list those you used previously with a manual connect, i guess?)
[05:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: something fabbione has
[05:07] <mjg59> Keybuk: Wired ethernet, right?
[05:07] <Keybuk> Kinnison: if I can be bothered :p
[05:07] <Kinnison> Keybuk: :-(
[05:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: possibly, I wasn't paying attention
[05:07] <Kinnison> Keybuk: maybe I'll actually get to distro in time to hack on it too
[05:07] <Keybuk> I was figuring lathiat's kind of thing
[05:08] <Kinnison> although the way that G-d is behaving I don't hold out much hope
[05:08] <Keybuk> "g-d" ?
[05:08] <Kinnison> right in the middle of critical testing, he smote the production librarian
[05:09] <Keybuk> Kinnison: oh, you realise if you join the distro team, you're going to get X :)
[05:09] <Keybuk> EXTREMELY BAD TIMING :p
[05:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I am going to do my best to wear teflon shoulderpads wrt. X
[05:09] <Kinnison> I refuse to give sabdfl even more ammunition for justifying his confusion of me and daniels back at the start
[05:09] <Keybuk> you realise that'd also reduce the launchpad's "gay/bi" quotient to zero
[05:11] <Lathiat> ok so orinoco is supported in dapper
[05:12] <Lathiat> in a wave of unthinkingness i tested it on my breezy laptop :)
[05:12] <Lathiat> works good on dapper
[05:13] <Keybuk> that was like Kamion who did an "oh, I've been accidentally using my Broadcom all day, it works!"
[05:13] <ogra> lucky Kamion then ... mine onnly works partially
[05:14] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Hmm
[05:15] <ogra> Lathiat, the scanning patch was in, it somehow stopped working with one of the last kernel upgrades ...
[05:16] <Lathiat> ogra: works for me here on latest kernel
[05:16] <ogra> iwlist scan ?
[05:16] <Lathiat> i just did a round of dist-upgrades tho (not including kernel)
[05:16] <Lathiat> i'll reboot and test
[05:16] <Lathiat> ogra: yep, and nm
[05:17] <ogra> it worked two weeks ago, but downt now ... i didnt follow it very closely though
[05:17] <ogra> *doesnt
[05:17] <Lathiat> what kind of card have you got?
[05:17] <Kinnison> Keybuk: You know, I think you're right. Or at least it reduces the out gay/bi quotient to zero. Not so sure about the closet :-)
[05:17] <Lathiat> like a pcmcia orinoco, or an airport or?
[05:17] <ogra> Lathiat, a lucent orinoco silver ...
[05:17] <ogra> pcmcia
[05:17] <Lathiat> ok, same card i've got
[05:17] <Lathiat> potentially different firmwares tho
[05:18] <ogra> might be, i never touched it ...
[05:18] <Lathiat> tho i've never heard of any issues at all with scanning and firmwares
[05:18] <ogra> (i know yu can patch it with the gold firmware)
[05:19] <wasabi_> Let the speculation begin!
[05:19] <wasabi_> "The Register reports that Google is working on a version of Ubuntu, known internally as Goobuntu. Google has confirmed it is working on a desktop linux project, but declined to supply further details, including what the project is for. Is Google about to release this as an alternative to Windows?"
[05:19] <Lathiat> ogra: not even that, just the actual version of the intended firmware
[05:19] <ogra> to get strong encryption working ...
[05:19] <Lathiat> wasabi_: did you read about google os last week too? ;)
[05:19] <Lathiat> ogra: well,yeh
[05:19] <Lathiat> ogra: that was a pretty cool hack
[05:19] <Keybuk> wasabi: more like Never Let Research Or Facts Stand In The Way Of El Reg's Quest For A Story
[05:19] <wasabi_> No, just heard about "ie"
[05:19] <Lathiat> and its not strong, just 'stronger' :)
[05:19] <wasabi_> "it"
[05:19] <Lathiat> i was reading APC mag today and read about google os
[05:19] <wasabi_> Keybuk: oh I know. I'm just fishing. ;)
[05:19] <Lathiat> and wanted to shoot myself :)
[05:19] <Lathiat> (APC mag being a computer mag in .au)
[05:20] <wasabi_> I'd be nice if google just hired some engineers and sent them here.
[05:20] <Lathiat> mildly more technical nature than some of the others
[05:21] <mjg59> The fact that Google have a project called Goobuntu doesn't indicate that they're planning on releasing it as a product...
[05:21] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/20060131_language-packs_pitti.ogg
[05:21] <wasabi_> I woldn't be suprised if they were just working on a flavor for internal desktops.
[05:21] <Keybuk> ^ could people let me know whether that's watchable; in particular the audio
[05:22] <mjg59> wasabi_: That's pretty much what the situation is
[05:22] <Lathiat> wasabi_: pretty much aiui
[05:22] <Kinnison> Keybuk: fetching
[05:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: Works fine in totem
[05:22] <Keybuk> yeah, mostly whether it's loud enough :)
[05:23] <mjg59> Seems ok
[05:23] <Lathiat> could do with a slightly better res
[05:23] <Lathiat> since we're looking at a whiteboard and not just a person
[05:23] <Keybuk> Lathiat: we could do with better upstream bandwidth :p
[05:23] <mjg59> Yeah, picture quality is poor
[05:24] <wasabi_> I really think that link itself hilights a problem. =(
[05:24] <Keybuk> the original is DVD quality, but to get it from my camera to somewhere servable is hard on 250kb/s
[05:24] <wasabi_> I should be able to click on it in XChat and Totem should open and stream it. Heh.
[05:24] <Lathiat> Keybuk: surely even a 25M video would be ok 
[05:25] <Lathiat> heh faces<->irc, weird :)
[05:25] <Keybuk> Lathiat: that would require slightly more finesse on theora conversions than I am capable of :)
[05:25] <Keybuk> if you know runes, let me have them and I can recode
[05:25] <Lathiat> sounds complicated ;p
[05:25] <Lathiat> so, anyon got any ideas on above kmail/apt situation?
[05:26] <Lathiat> there is 1 other package (unrelated) being held back due to missing dep (gnome-system-monitor dep missing gksu) - don tsee why thatd be confusing it tho
[05:27] <wasabi_> darnit that .ogg froze totem
[05:27] <wasabi_> hmm. actually it looks like Open Location... itself freezes totem
[05:28] <jbailey> mjg59: Apparently you want us to all run gnome-power-manager.  Now that I'm doing so, is there anything you want from me?
[05:28] <mjg59> jbailey: Does it work?
[05:29] <jbailey> mjg59: It appears to have a number of menus.  Is there something about it in particular I should try?
[05:29] <mjg59> jbailey: You have battery status?
[05:29] <mjg59> Does hibernate work on your machine? If so, does it work when you trigger it from g-p-m?
[05:29] <jbailey> It's got a power cord wrapper around a battery that's full right now, which is true.
[05:29] <jbailey> Lemme flip to battery to test the difference.
[05:30] <jbailey> It took a bit longer than the regular applet to notice that I'm on battery, but that's probably just polling cycle.
[05:30] <Lathiat> IIRC by default GNOME disables the reboot/shutdown options
[05:30] <jbailey> I haven't tried hibernate yet.  suspend doesn't work.
[05:30] <Lathiat> if its not running under gdm
[05:30] <Lathiat> that doesnt happen with the new stuff
[05:30] <jbailey> on this laptop, I mean.
[05:32] <Kinnison> Keybuk: the sound is fine
[05:32] <Kinnison> Keybuk: the video is a touch low bitrate
[05:33] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yeah, the video suffers simply from I have to upload it
[05:33] <Keybuk> so I made it small enough to do that
[05:34] <jbailey> mjg59: Clikcing on "Hibernation" (fr_CA) causes my network manager to lose sync with the network, but nothing else seems to happen.
[05:34] <jbailey> mjg59: Does it put a log file somewhere that I can see what it thinks it was meant to do?
[05:34] <mjg59> jbailey: You have /var/run/console/jbailey:7 or whatever?
[05:35] <Keybuk> Kinnison: the original would just fit on a CD
[05:35] <Kinnison> Keybuk: how long was the talk?
[05:35] <jbailey> mjg59: I have nothing under /var/run that begins with "console" or "jbailey"
[05:36] <mjg59> jbailey: So when I said "Install libpam-foreground, log out, log in", that bit wasn't communciated? :)
[05:36] <mjg59> BenC: I've sent you a patch to add rtl stuff
[05:36] <jbailey> mjg59: Correct, was not. =)
[05:36] <BenC> ok, thanks
[05:36] <jbailey> mjg59: Battery status seems to be more aggresively updated that the standard gnome battery.
[05:36] <jbailey> But otherwise both show as 94%
[05:37] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, for now mkdir /var/run/console and then touch that file (assuming jbailey is your username and you're on vt 7)
[05:37] <Keybuk> Kinnison: 15-20mins ish
[05:38] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Hmm, videocd quality should be ca. 300 megs then
[05:39] <Keybuk> Kinnison: dunno, it's standard DVD 16:9 MPEG-2 off the camear
[05:39] <Keybuk> AC3 audio
[05:40] <jbailey> mjg59: Installed the package (should it be a dependancy?)
[05:40] <jbailey> I've touched the file as root.;
[05:41] <Kinnison> Keybuk: hmm
[05:42] <mjg59> jbailey: It'll be part of desktop
[05:42] <jbailey> Cool.
[05:44] <mjg59> BenC: Somebody probably needs to find out if we can distribute the Marvell wireless firmware
[05:45] <BenC> mjg59: hell, still working on the bcm43xx firmware :/
[05:45] <mjg59> BenC: Heh. The Marvell stuff is probably easier.
[05:45] <mjg59> BenC: Also, must push you an updated driver for the sdhci stuff
[05:46] <BenC> ok
[05:46] <mjg59> It's /almost/ working perfectly here now - I'm just not getting all eject/inserts
[05:51] <Kamion> BenC: Theo had no luck with that either :(
[05:52] <Kamion> BenC: (bcm43xx working great for me now, btw)
[05:52] <BenC> I think we may have a chance
[05:54] <simira> who chased Mithrandir away? :-/
[05:56] <Kamion> mjg59: can I have a preference for "don't tell me when I switch to battery"?
[05:57] <Kamion> mjg59: also it would be nice if it were clear whether "Put ... to sleep after" is "after x minutes of inactivity" or just "after x minutes"
[05:57] <Keybuk> "You have just had an accident..." "YES, I KNOW!"
[05:58] <mdz> mjg59: what is the failure mode for swsusp like if it doesn't have enough swap?
[05:59] <mjg59> Kamion: Pls file bugs kthxbi
[06:00] <mjg59> Kamion: (Yeah, the UI is a bit rough)
[06:00] <mjg59> mdz: It should just bounce back
[06:00] <mdz> I was having inexplicable swsusp failures last week where it would hang on the way down, but it's working OK this week oddly enough
[06:01] <mjg59> pitti: mmc cards still don't seem to be getting automounted
[06:02] <mjg59> pitti: "Error: device /dev/mmcblk0p1 is not removable
[06:03] <mjg59> Keybuk: We have two drivers for sd readers (sdhci and wbsd). Both of them need mmc_block to be loaded beforehand in order to be useful.
[06:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: then they should both depend on it, no?
[06:08] <Keybuk> sdhci depends mmc_core
[06:08] <mjg59> Keybuk: No - they don't actually call any functions from it
[06:08] <Keybuk> wbsd depends mmc_core
[06:08] <Keybuk> I see
[06:08] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:08] <mjg59> But you need mmc_block to actually get a block device
[06:08] <Keybuk> so the mmc subsystem should generate a MODALIAS that matches an alias that the mmc_block declares support for
[06:08] <Keybuk> (we have the same with i2o_block at the moment)
[06:09] <mjg59> I don't really care how it's fixed, but it would be nice if it was fixed :)
[06:10] <Keybuk> file a bug
[06:10] <Keybuk> assign it to kernel, and subscribe me
[06:10] <mjg59> Ok
[06:11] <Keybuk> mjg59: do you have a machine with this in there right now?
[06:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yup
[06:12] <Keybuk> and without mmc_block loaded?
[06:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: I can unload mmc_block if you want 
[06:12] <mjg59> On boot, sdhci gets loaded, mmc_block doesn't
[06:12] <Keybuk> is there a /proc/bus kind of stuff?
[06:12] <Keybuk> mjg59: right, there's nothing to say "load mmc_block"
[06:12] <mjg59> No, nothing in /proc/bus
[06:12] <Keybuk> /proc/mmc ?
[06:13] <mjg59> No mention of mmc in /proc
[06:13] <mjg59> There's a /sys/bus/mmc
[06:13] <Keybuk> /sys/bus/mmc ?
[06:13] <Keybuk> right
[06:13] <mjg59> And a sys/class/mmc_host
[06:13] <Kamion> mjg59: filed
[06:13] <Keybuk> what's in that
[06:13] <Keybuk> a single devices?
[06:13] <mjg59> sys/bus/mmc contains drivers and devices
[06:13] <Keybuk> yeah, how many devices?
[06:13] <mjg59> devices is empty
[06:13] <Keybuk> *blink*
[06:13] <mjg59> As is drivers
[06:14] <mjg59> If I load mmc_block, drivers gains mmcblk
[06:14] <Keybuk> can you rip all the modules out, and run "udevplug" again
[06:14] <Keybuk> are you sure you have an mmc device plugged in? :)
[06:14] <mjg59> I've just been reading off it
[06:14] <jbailey> mjg59: Even after I touched that file, I didn't actually do it.  I'll try a log out and back in to make sure that it's not something I did wrongly.
[06:14] <Keybuk> mjg59: ok, unplug it -- rip out all the modules, then run "udevmonitor -e" and plug it back in
[06:14] <mjg59>  /sys/bus/mmc seems to only contain stuff when mmc_block is loaded
[06:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's a built-in PCI device
[06:15] <jbailey> When I plug in the power cord again, the battery now looks shattered with a power cord around it.
[06:15] <Keybuk> did mmc_block create anything in /sys/bus/mmc/devices ?
[06:15] <Kamion> mjg59: otherwise, g-p-m seems to work fine for me
[06:15] <mjg59> jbailey: That's supposed to be a lightning bolt
[06:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: Without a card in, no
[06:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: With a card in, yes
[06:15] <Kamion> mjg59: suspend works, hibernate doesn't, but that's no surprise (powerbook)
[06:15] <Keybuk> ah
[06:15] <jbailey> mjg59: Yes, dear. =)
[06:16] <Keybuk> is there anything in /devices *with a card in* when mmc_block is *not* loaded?
[06:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: No
[06:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: Oh, I tell a lie - yes
[06:17] <mjg59> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 2006-01-31 17:17 mmc0:0001 -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1e.0/0000:02:00.1/mmc0:0001
[06:17] <Keybuk> *beats you*
[06:17] <Keybuk> right
[06:17] <Keybuk> now what's in that?
[06:18] <mjg59> bus  cid  csd  date  fwrev  hwrev  manfid  name  oemid  power  serial  uevent
[06:18] <Keybuk> readlink bus ... and cat everything else but uevent
[06:18] <mjg59> ../../../../../bus/mmc
[06:19] <mjg59> Keybuk: None of the files look terribly interesting - just seems to be information about the card
[06:19] <Keybuk> right
[06:19] <Keybuk> and nothing in /proc for mmc at all?
[06:20] <mjg59> Correct
[06:20] <Keybuk> see, nothing tells us to load mmc_block
[06:20] <Keybuk> I bet there's not even a char-major for it
[06:21] <mjg59> It seems to end up with 253
[06:21] <mjg59> Which is dynamic, presumably?
[06:21] <mdke> does anyone know if gnome-app-install will be capable of installing any program in the repository, or is it limited to only some programs still?
[06:23] <Keybuk> mjg59: indeed
[06:23] <Keybuk> mjg59: so, this is clearly a kernel bug
[06:23] <LaserJock> mdke: doesn't it have an advanced button or something (I can't remember right now) that launches synaptic?
[06:23] <Keybuk> "oh that device doesn't work unless you load *this* module?" "and how was I supposed to know to do that?!"($*(UASFJA"
[06:25] <mdke> LaserJock, yes, but I'd like to know what it does without using that button
[06:26] <mjg59> Keybuk: Why? 
[06:26] <mjg59> Keybuk: SD slots aren't limited to block devices
[06:26] <Keybuk> mjg59: my point exactly
[06:26] <LaserJock> mdke: oh sorry, no idea there
[06:26] <Keybuk> so the subsystem should expose *something* to say what's plugged in
[06:26] <mjg59> Ah, I see
[06:26] <Keybuk> otherwise how do we know whether to load mmc_block, mmc_audio, mmc_net, et. al.
[06:27] <Keybuk> usually this is dealt with through MODALIAS
[06:27] <Keybuk> it should generate a modalias that includes a hint about the type of device
[06:27] <Keybuk> and the "catch all" modules should match mmc:?????t01 type thing
[06:28] <Keybuk> then we can blacklist mmc_bug :p
[06:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: The problem is likely to be that this stuff was all written by embedded people...
[06:30] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes
[06:30] <Keybuk> they can be taught the right way
[06:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: As a workaround, would it be acceptable to just unconditionally load mmc_block before these drivers?
[06:31] <mjg59> We don't actually support SDIO right now, so...
[06:32] <Keybuk> mjg59: could you write up something about MMC and how it works, and what the drivers mean, what's in sysfs, etc. and send it to linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
[06:32] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ah, hang on. The hotplug event appears to add a command class field to MMC_CCC
[06:33] <Keybuk> then we can sic gregkh on them (usually by providing patches)
[06:33] <Keybuk> if there's anything in the hotplug event that's not in sysfs, it needs to be driver core'd
[06:33] <mjg59> And mmc_block checks whether cmdclass claims it's a block device
[06:33] <Keybuk> huh?
[06:34] <mjg59> Via a private data structure
[06:34] <Keybuk> eeeevil
[06:34] <Keybuk> write this stuff up :)
[06:34] <mjg59> Hang on
[06:34] <mjg59> Looks like this may be exposed through sysfs
[06:34] <mjg59> It's just you have to parse a hexidecimal string
[06:34] <Keybuk> yeah, the lack of modalias still needs fixing though
[06:35] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'm at home now -- I can test the smart battery stuff if you need it
[06:35] <Treenaks> ooh
[06:35] <mjg59> Treenaks: I've sent a patch to Ben - should show up in the next kernel with luck
[06:35] <Treenaks> and I have a non-working MMC thingy as well :)
[06:35] <mjg59> Treenaks: Can you lspci -n it and see if it's pci class 0805?
[06:36] <Treenaks> 0000:02:06.4 0805: 104c:8034
[06:36] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah, should work then
[06:36] <Treenaks> mjg59: it is detected, but when I insert a card, nothing happens
[06:36] <mjg59> Treenaks: Load mmc_block and things should be better, but it'll still be flaky with the version in the kernel right now
[06:36] <mjg59>                 csd->cmdclass     = UNSTUFF_BITS(resp, 84, 12);
[06:37] <Treenaks> mjg59: still nothing
[06:37] <Treenaks> mjg59: interrupt count in /proc/interrupts doesn't update either
[06:40] <mjg59> Is there a type that can hold a 128 bit value?
[06:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: two int64's ;)
[06:42] <mjg59> Keybuk: Check mmc.c, line 546. It gets 12 bits from bus/mmc/device/csd (starting at bit 84)
[06:43] <mjg59> And then mmc_block.c checks whether that matches CCC_BLOCK_READ (include/linux/mmc/protocol.h)
[06:48] <Treenaks> mjg59: I also have a laptop with a class 0180 SD/MMC/SM reader (also TI, but 104c:8033)
[06:48] <mjg59> If it's not class 0805, you're out of luck right now
[06:48] <Treenaks> mjg59: hm, ok
[06:59] <Treenaks> (btw, any news on my 'crack' keys ( and $ near the arrows)
[07:06] <janimo> Treenaks, that class  180 is flashmedia controller
[07:06] <janimo> it's the hp 8240 laptop I presume?
[07:06] <Treenaks> janimo: no, that's my Acer
[07:06] <Treenaks> janimo: the 8240 has a 0805
[07:07] <janimo> oh, great so the TI controller will be supported
[07:07] <Treenaks> janimo: (hey! on the 8240 I _also_ have the 0180 device)
[07:07] <Treenaks> (and a 0780 / smart card reader device) 
[07:07] <janimo> Treenaks, what I said. that is a flashmedia controller
[07:07] <janimo> the SD one is 805
[07:07] <janimo> the TI chip controls many kinds of interfaces
[07:07] <Treenaks> janimo: I know
[07:08] <Treenaks> janimo: but I only have a SD slot, and a SmartCard slot (and a PCMCIA/CardBus slot)
[07:08] <janimo> me too
[07:08] <Treenaks> janimo: so the rest is 'not connected' I guess
[07:08] <Treenaks> janimo: but on my other laptop, with a mixed SD/MMC/SM slot, there's only the FlahsMedia controller
[07:11] <Keybuk> mjg59: ok, write all this up and send it to the list please!
[07:18] <mjg59> Keybuk: Do I need to be subscribed?
[07:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: not sure, if doesn't work, mail it to me
[07:27] <mjg59> Keybuk: Mailed to the list, if it bounces I'll send it back your way
[07:28] <Keybuk> it did
[07:28] <Keybuk> (not bounce)
[07:28] <Keybuk> it got through
[07:28] <mjg59> Cool
[07:30] <mjg59> I think I've got that right - let me know if it doesn't seem to match the code
[07:53] <poningru> slightly annoying question
[07:53] <poningru> did we know about goobuntu?
[07:53] <Keybuk> what about it?
[07:53] <Keybuk> most of what you heard is probably wrong
[07:53] <poningru> oh
[07:53] <poningru> but it does exist?
[07:53] <poningru> and did canonical know about it?
[07:54] <Keybuk> e.g. is Google were putting together something based on Ubuntu, it'd be almost certainly for internal use only and not yet another distro on the racks
[07:54] <zyga> hello
[07:54] <poningru> oh
[07:55] <LaserJock> I have a debian/copyright question. I am trying to fix the debian/copyright for ubuntu-docs. All but one of the docs have a FDL/CC-SA dual license.
[07:55] <LaserJock> since FDL and CC-SA are not in /user/share/common-licenses/ should I include a complete copy of the licenses in debian/copyright?
[07:56] <lucas> what's the license of the doc which isn't dual-licensed ?
[07:56] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu Packaging Guide I'm working on, its GPL
[07:57] <Keybuk> LaserJock: yes.
[07:57] <lucas> Keybuk: what's Ubuntu's position regarding GFDL and CCs ? (they are non-free according to debian-legal)
[07:58] <Kamion> poningru: suffice to say it isn't particularly news to us
[07:59] <Keybuk> lucas: Ubuntu ships GFDL and CC-licenced material
[07:59] <Keybuk> (* note: possible lie on the second, I _think_ we do, but could be wrong)
[07:59] <lucas> ok
[07:59] <LaserJock> well we are shipping ubuntu-docs 
[07:59] <Kamion> in the case of documentation our stance is that we do not necessarily hold them to the standards of free software licences; instead we judge on a licence-by-licence and package-by-package basis
[08:00] <Kamion> see http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing, which is quite clear about this
[08:01] <LaserJock> hmm, so this is going to be a little messy
[08:04] <LaserJock> ok so I say that all documents are dual licensed under FDL/CC-SA (an have the complete licenses) except for the Ubuntu Packaging Guide which is GPL?
[08:16] <sivang> LaserJock: what's the status of Ubuntu Packaging Guide , is it near completion? :-)
[08:16] <sivang> Keybuk: can I ask you some hal related questions?
[08:16] <Keybuk> if you like
[08:16] <Keybuk> but you really want sjoerd or pitti
[08:16] <Keybuk> I may still be able to help though
[08:17] <LaserJock> sivang: not terribly complete doc.ubuntu.com has what I have so far.
[08:17] <LaserJock> sivang: I've been busy but after this week I should have more time for it
[08:18] <sivang> Keybuk: just trying to confirm, if I Have a usb drive with 2 partitions on it, they will be reported by hal as 2 volumes with the same parent node as the Usb device ?
[08:19] <Keybuk> yes
[08:19] <sivang> Keybuk: ok, so my storage device detection code no really needs a good rewrite :)
[08:20] <sivang> s/no/now/
[08:20] <sivang> Keybuk: thanks :)
[08:20] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/20060131_dropping-pre-i686_jbailey-doko.ogg
[08:23] <sivang> Keybuk: videos from the sprint?
[08:25] <LaserJock> sivang: btw, if you have any suggestions for the Ubuntu Packaging Guide I'd love to hear them
[08:26] <sivang> LaserJock: currently I'm overly busy, but if you discuss cdbs I might be able to toss something for free :)
[08:28] <sivang> Keybuk: fascinating
[08:29] <LaserJock> sivang: I do plan on having a cdbs section and I'm not terribly familiar with it so I might be bugging you in the future ;-)
[08:36] <sivang> LaserJock: I just have one small tip. I'm no expert :)
[08:38] <zul> Keybuk: where is that from?
[08:38] <sivang> zul: I'd bet on the distro sprint , or something close
[08:39] <zul> i thought the sprint hasnt started yet
[08:56] <Keybuk> zul: here is what from?
[08:57] <zul> Keybuk: the ogg video
[08:57] <Keybuk> the distro team sprint
[08:57] <zul> ah ok..
[08:59] <Keybuk> Technical Board Meeting in 1 minute
[09:01] <mantiena-baltix> Kamion, did you got my email ?
[09:01] <mantiena-baltix> from mantas@akl.lt
[09:02] <Keybuk> mantiena-baltix: Kamion's been a combination of ill and busy so far this week
[09:02] <Keybuk> I wouldn't expect an immediate reply
[09:50] <mantiena-baltix> Keybuk, oh
[09:51] <eeejay> are there any efforts being made ti integrate Xen?
[09:53] <tseng> not at this time
[09:54] <eeejay> ok
[09:54] <eeejay> i'll give it a go
[09:55] <ogra> eeejay, there are several people offering packages from personal repos iirc ... but its not included 
[09:55] <dredg> good luck. there's a distinct lack of patches for recent kernels for xen 2.0, and xen 3.0 is where all the development seems to be. except 3.0 is unstable
[09:55] <eeejay> ogra, so there is no point in rolling my own debs, right?
[09:56] <dredg> i had a look at it for something work-related but gave up cos i was busy with something else and just wasn't happy with the lack of it working the way i wanted 
[09:56] <ogra> i dont think so ... but on the other hand i never looked at the existing ones ...
[09:56] <eeejay> xen 3.0 was released
[09:56] <dredg> was it? right
[09:56] <dredg> might look at it next week when i get a chance
[09:57] <eeejay> thats why it would be a worthy attempt :)
[09:59] <dredg> interesting
[10:03] <trulux> evolution-2.6 is a bit unstable, isn't it?
[10:03] <trulux> :)
[10:04] <sivang> trulux: yep, I'm also experiencing this :)
[10:04] <trulux> sivang: heap overflows around
[10:04] <trulux> let's hope for the best so bad kids don't sell them :)
[10:05] <sivang> trulux: well, I didn't investiage that deep, I just expreince the pain :)
[10:05] <trulux> sivang: HTML processing code is worst and worst on each new milestone
[10:05] <sivang> trulux: HTML should be banned in emails :-D
[10:05] <trulux> sivang: well, disable malloc checking in your glibc, then attach gdb and have fun
[10:06] <trulux> sivang: heh
[10:06] <sivang> trulux: I think that could eventually consume all my RAM or hammer my swap , I think I'll pass
[10:06] <trulux> sivang: any way to go back?
[10:07] <trulux> sivang: I mena once you get it to crash
[10:07] <sivang> trulux: you mean, to downgrade the package?
[10:07] <trulux> yeah
[10:07] <trulux> I don't want this 0day shit :)
[10:07] <sivang> trulux: I usually dpwnf ohhh I like crappy net connections
[10:08] <sivang> trulux: I usually dpkg -i /var/apt/archives/pkg-ubuntu${N-1} but it does not always help.
[10:09] <trulux> sivang: hmm, how's that this unstable thing gets into dapper that easy?
[10:09] <sivang> trulux: it's dapper :) btw, what does your backtrace tells you? (top of it)
[10:10] <trulux> #12 0xb796b34a in free () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
[10:10] <trulux> #13 0xb6a8fdcc in g_free () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
[10:10] <trulux> last calls
[10:10] <trulux> :)
[10:11] <sivang> trulux: we need to compare and report a bug. did you rebuild evo with debug symbols? (it takes ages)
[10:11] <sivang> trulux: let's move this to #u-desktop , shall we?
[10:12] <trulux> nope, well, I was working on some POC, so I didn't report anything yet
[10:12] <trulux> no need, I'll to work this out
[10:12] <sivang> trulux: POC ?
[10:13] <trulux> sivang: proof of concept, call it exploit
[10:13] <sivang> trulux: ah, for the security team?
[10:13] <trulux> I don't have the time anyways, this evolution stuff makes me feel sick
[10:13] <trulux> sivang: no, for myself :|
[10:13] <sivang> trulux: I'm on the evo stuff, the rebuild time just pisses me off :)
[10:14] <trulux> I can help you, but I would like to get email working first :)
[10:15] <sivang> trulux: evo started crashing for  me at start due to bug 28640
[10:15] <trulux> sivang: link to malone?
[10:15] <trulux> sivang: most of the issues are related to html processing, really weird
[10:16] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28640 in glibc "libc6 crash on certain UTF8 encoded filename" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28640
[10:16] <zyga> sivang: interesting
[10:16] <sivang> trulux: he had created a patch for this that appears to have solved the issue on one of my machines,
[10:17] <sivang> trulux: but still not for the other. I'll just make sure it's not the same thing 
[10:17] <sivang> zyga: indeed.
[10:17] <sivang> trulux: this also affects my gaim on this system, so it seems.
[10:18] <zyga> sivang: I'm still reading the bug page
[10:18] <trulux> nope, that isn't the issue
[10:18] <trulux> this one is a nice issue on html processing of some objects
[10:19] <trulux> I'll fill a bug report anyways
[10:19] <zyga> sivang: bah it's fixed already
[10:19] <sivang> zyga: supposed to be 
[10:20] <sivang> zyga: it WAS fixed for one of my mahcines, this doesn't seem to have helped my home machine
[10:20] <trulux> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x087a8850 ***
[10:20] <sivang> zyga: this also broke gaim for me, which is still broken here.
[10:20] <zyga> sivang: queer, maybe incomplete upgrade?
[10:20] <sivang> zyga: hmm
[10:20] <sivang> zyga: I'll check
[10:21] <sivang> zyga: nope
[10:21] <trulux> ok, got another one
[10:21] <zyga> hmm
[10:21] <zyga> I'd like to file a bug on alacarte :-)
[10:22] <zyga> the image in the about dialog should be ubuntu human themed
[10:22] <Amaranth> zyga: Why should the applications own internal logo be human themed?
[10:22] <trulux> http://rafb.net/paste/results/DOzPW794.html
[10:23] <zyga> Amaranth: because it shows a screenshot of the application menu 
[10:23] <Amaranth> zyga: so small you can't really see it
[10:23] <zyga> Amaranth: it could be brownish ':-)
[10:23] <Amaranth> it is
[10:24] <zyga> ?
[10:24] <Amaranth> it's clearlooks, which is a sort of tan color
[10:24] <zyga> Amaranth: I've got a blue color
[10:24] <Amaranth> ah, the selected one
[10:24] <Amaranth> btw, it's not actually a screenshot
[10:24] <Amaranth> zyga: i'd end up rejecting the patch, it's not worth it to me
[10:24] <zyga> Amaranth: right but it's close
[10:25] <Amaranth> patch/bug, whatever is supplied
[10:25] <zyga> Amaranth: even if all you had to do was to apply a changed .png to the tree?
[10:25] <Amaranth> zyga: yes, because about dialogs are generally left alone
[10:25] <Amaranth> plus it's my app :P
[10:26] <zyga> Amaranth: ooooh
[10:26] <zyga> Amaranth: would you like a comitted polish translator then?
[10:26] <Amaranth> zyga: once i get it into gnome cvs, please
[10:27] <Amaranth> which won't make it into dapper...
[10:27] <zyga> Amaranth: even before, I'd love to get it via rosetta but it's not there yet
[10:27] <Amaranth> yeah, i don't have any source management setup for it
[10:27] <Amaranth> so rosetta can't get to it
[10:27] <zyga> Amaranth: not even bzr?
[10:27] <Amaranth> nope
[10:27] <zyga> Amaranth: local bzr is worth a fortune :-)
[10:28] <zyga> Amaranth: why won't you go for it then?
[10:28] <Amaranth> i'm too lazy to type "bzr commit"
[10:28] <Amaranth> go for?
[10:28] <zyga> Amaranth: would you allow me to submit current alacarte template to rosetta?
[10:28] <Amaranth> sure
[10:29] <zyga> Amaranth: k, in progress :-)
[10:29] <Amaranth> you'll have to ping seb128 on getting the package updated until the end of february though
[10:29] <zyga> Amaranth: what do you mean?
[10:29] <zyga> Amaranth: the UVF?
[10:30] <Amaranth> no, i don't have ubuntu installed anywhere right now
[10:30] <Amaranth> or a copy of alacarte :P
[10:30] <zyga> Amaranth: :-))
[10:30] <Amaranth> and he has been handling things with it
[10:31] <zyga> Amaranth: that's fine I already got the source, I'll talk with seb about this tommorow
[10:38] <rob^^^> Am I the only one who has concerns about users being able to find shut down on the new GDM theme?
[10:39] <tseng> that is a question for #ubuntu-desktop
[10:41] <rob^^^> thanks, I've asked there
[10:43] <delire_> crimsun: what was the workaround for snd-hda-intel on a 2.6.10 kernel? have a person here that runs breezy on 2.6.10 not 2.6.12 due to showstopper bug 15031.. snd-hda-intel isn't in the 2.6.10 sources.
[10:51] <trulux> sivang: mostly anything makes it to crash
[10:51] <trulux> sivang: any temp. solution? :(
[10:52] <sivang> trulux: it finished building now :) let's see where it crashes
[10:53] <trulux> great
[10:55] <trulux> sivang: two upgrades available now for gtkhtml
[10:56] <trulux> sivang: I guess those are related to evolution
[10:56] <sivang> trulux: how new are they?
[10:56] <trulux> today
[10:56] <sivang> trulux: already tried them. my evo is hanging on CalDAV Eplugin starting up ...
[10:56] <sivang> oh well, I'll leave it fo rnow I think :)
[10:56] <trulux> jeesh
[11:05] <trulux> sivang: well, the issues are somehow solved
[11:05] <trulux> sivang: I'll check for a security notice, or maybe they patched silently the stuff
[11:05] <trulux> :)
[11:05] <sivang> trulux: you mean, the POC for exploiting evo?
[11:06] <trulux> sivang: yep, the issues have been removed from the lib
[11:07] <Wibble-> I'm interested in hacking the source code for one of the packages I have installed in a ubuntu-friendly way.  Are there any guides which might poke me in the right sorts of directions for the ubuntu side of things?
[11:09] <\sh> moins
[11:09] <\sh> can someone explain me, why suddenly my upgraded amd64 dapper is throwing out bootp messages?
[11:10] <\sh> 23:09:10.565659 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc > 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request from 00:14:85:51:5b:7a (oui Unknown), length: 300
[11:10] <\sh> 23:09:10.569101 IP 192.168.1.1.bootps > 255.255.255.255.bootpc: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, length: 548
[11:11] <\sh> ok...dhclient3 is the man
[11:11] <mjg59> They're DHCP requests, not bootp ones
[11:11] <\sh> well..yes
[11:12] <\sh> and I wonder why dhclient3 is throwing them like mad...even if dhclient3 already requested the ip from the dhcp
[11:13] <\sh> mjg59: btw..I had some nasty things happening 2 hours ago with latest dapper upgrades from today
[11:14] <\sh> 1. sky2 loaded as marvell yukon driver, instead of sk98lin
[11:14] <\sh> 2. sk98lin loaded manually didn't work at all anymore
[11:15] <Amaranth> zyga: I've got mail. :)
[11:15] <zyga> Amaranth: k, I'll also send you a minor patch for missing i18n
[11:15] <\sh> and I couldn't write down the error messages, because no pen&paper and no ways to access my network or my second partition
[11:16] <Amaranth> zyga: msgstr "Edytor menu Alcarte"
[11:16] <Amaranth> typo?
[11:16] <zyga> yes,
[11:16] <\sh> and now let me try to get my madwifi card running again
[11:16] <zyga> sorry :-)
[11:16] <\sh> brb
[11:16] <zyga> Amaranth: how about that bzr branch for both of us?
[11:17] <zyga> Amaranth: I used dapper sources
[11:17] <Amaranth> zyga: i figure once i find my USB stick i'll get it into gnome cvs (just need to create the module, already been approved and i have an account), then get launchpad to mirror it into bzr
[11:17] <Amaranth> zyga: dapper sources is all i have too
[11:19] <zyga> Amaranth: okay, I'll send you the .po again along with the patch
[11:20] <zyga> what was that apt-cache command that showed you all versions of a package?
[11:20] <zyga> ma... something
[11:20] <zyga> mosomething?
[11:24] <sivang> night all
[11:24] <\sh> at last
[11:25] <zyga> sivang: night
[11:25] <\sh> sivang: sleep tight
[11:25] <sivang> \sh: thanks :)
[11:25] <sivang> \sh: you too
[11:25] <sivang> zyga: back
[11:25] <zyga> :-)
[11:25] <\sh> sivang: well, I have a lot of "Dude, where's my dapper" questions to answer :)
[11:26] <delire> hehe
[11:26] <\sh> 2h at least to determine that I wasn't the fault...
[11:27] <\sh> actually a good day
[11:27] <zyga> Amaranth: almost done, just one test away
[11:28] <\sh> 1. fixed a j4log problem in a servlet, 2. fixed a problem with "how does imap actually work, and why is it totally crap to open several imap session when you don't close them" 
[11:29] <\sh> 3. explain to some java devs, why tomcat and all java servlet containers do have session handling and why you should use them, even in midlets 
[11:30] <\sh> 4. wrote an invoice and earned money...
[11:31] <ajmitch> hi \sh 
[11:31] <\sh> moins ajmitch 
[11:31] <ajmitch> part 4 is good ;)
[11:31] <MisterN> n8
[11:32] <\sh> ajmitch: yes...7 days of work, and earned at least the same money as working for ish for one month :)
[11:32] <\sh> ajmitch: now they have to transfer the money to my account..and I can pay at least my rent and car and phone :)
[11:33] <ajmitch> yeah, I've got a short (2-3 week) job in a few days 
[11:33] <\sh> ajmitch: oh btw...wrote the invoice with the lx-erp software, a german fork of sql-ledger :) 
[11:34] <ajmitch> heh
[11:35] <\sh> need to setup a complete table of accounts for this thing...and somehow add some digital signature functionality to the "send invoice by email" function
[11:40] <zyga> Amaranth: do you want a diff against orig.tar.gz or orig.tar.gz + debian.changes
[11:40] <Amaranth> i forgot what the changes were
[11:40] <Amaranth> afaik it's only changes to the packaging
[11:41] <zyga> Amaranth: a minor change with gnome 2.12 compatibility
[11:42] <Amaranth> err
[11:42] <Amaranth> where?
[11:42] <Amaranth> the only thing i can think of that you'd be talking about is the debian version
[11:43] <Amaranth> which loads gnome-applications.menu and uses reversed(foo) instead of foo.reversed()
[11:43] <Amaranth> or vice-versa, i forget which one is new in python 2.4
[11:45] <zyga> Amaranth: in debian/patches
[11:45] <Amaranth> what version are you looking at?
[11:45] <Amaranth> i'm seeing nothing in the archives...
[11:45] <Amaranth> -s
[11:46] <zyga> Amaranth: 0.8-0ubuntu2
[11:46] <zyga> Amaranth: you can have a look at my bzr branch if you'd like
[11:46] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:47] <Amaranth> 0.8-0ubuntu2 doesn't have any patches which change the orig
[11:47] <Amaranth> that i can see here
[11:47] <zyga> http://ubuntu.suxx.pl/2006--1/bzr-archive/alacarte--zk
[11:47] <zyga> Amaranth: yes you're right
[11:48] <zyga> Amaranth: it's in debian/patches
[11:48] <zyga> sorry I got confused
[11:49] <Amaranth> heh, my last changelog entry is funny
[11:49] <zyga> argh.. I'm dumb :-)
[11:50] <zyga> copying .diff from mc's virtual directory was ... silly
[11:50] <Amaranth> yeah, i'm seeing that :P
[11:50] <Amaranth> all these diff files in debian/ :P
[11:52] <zyga> Amaranth: pull, I fixed that
[11:52] <Amaranth> oh, i'm just browsing with firefox :P
[11:52] <Amaranth> i'm at school
[11:52] <zyga> Amaranth: basically the real fix is: add missing translatable="yes" in .glade
[11:53] <zyga> add pl.po
[11:53] <zyga> move "Other" out of translatable strings
[11:53] <Amaranth> what was missing in the glade file?
[11:53] <zyga> mark some missing strings in the source (just one AFAIR)
[11:53] <zyga> the window title :)
[11:53] <Amaranth> bleh
[11:53] <Amaranth> that's the title of the app
[11:54] <zyga> yes but it has to be translated :)
[11:57] <zyga> Amaranth: oh and I've also added X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain to .desktop.in
[11:57] <Amaranth> yeah, what's up with that?
[11:57] <zyga> Amaranth: gettext support :)
[11:58] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[11:58] <zyga> Amaranth: ideally for ubuntu .desktop files should have no translations at all
[11:58] <Amaranth> bzr works on OS X, right?
[11:58] <zyga> that pulls translations from .mo files
[11:58] <zyga> Amaranth: yes
[11:58] <Amaranth> ok
[11:58] <zyga> Amaranth: on 10.4.3 at least
[11:58] <Amaranth> 10.4.4, same thing
[11:59] <zyga> Amaranth: todo, add focus on 'applications' after startup
[11:59] <zyga> I need to look at other projects
[11:59] <zyga> take care :-)
[11:59] <Amaranth> zyga: will you be here in 2 hours?