[12:07] <Ubuntuser_Ba> Seveas, ping
[12:08] <Seveas> yes?
[12:08] <Ubuntuser_Ba> pvt..
[09:01] <Keybuk> ok,
[09:01] <Keybuk> mjg59: ping
[09:01] <Keybuk> mdz has sent apologies, he's at the theatre tonight
[09:01] <Keybuk> sabdfl is in asia, and I would be fired for making any implications about thai ladyboys
[09:01] <Keybuk> uh ^L^L^L
[09:01] <Keybuk> :D
[09:01] <sivang> Keybuk: hehe
[09:04] <Keybuk> hmm, no response from mjg59 ... will give him a few minutes
[09:05] <mjg59> Hi
[09:06] <Keybuk> aha
[09:06] <Keybuk> right
[09:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: got a whiskey ready?
[09:06] <mjg59> Not as yet
[09:06] <mjg59> I'll find one if it becomes necessary
[09:06] <Keybuk> I have a beer, which I'm already part the way through
[09:06] <Keybuk> so this should be a nice ride
[09:06] <Keybuk> so let's get this show on the rode
[09:06] <Keybuk> Core Developer Candidates
[09:06] <Keybuk> jjmmma ?
[09:07] <Keybuk> dsaa ?
[09:07] <Keybuk> Kinnison ?
[09:07] <Keybuk> debankur ?
[09:07] <Keybuk> none of those have applied for membership or motu, so will be rejected
[09:08] <Keybuk> Kinnison: ah, just in time... you need to apply for ubuntu-members and ubuntu-dev before you can apply for ubuntu-core-dev
[09:08] <Kinnison> Right
[09:08] <Stormx2> Hey! A meeting :P I'll just watch.
[09:08] <Kinnison> so I need to do the wiki etc?
[09:08] <Keybuk> right
[09:08] <Kinnison> Okay, I'll do that next week
[09:08] <Keybuk> ubuntu-members are considered by the Community Council
[09:08] <fabbione> *cough*
[09:08] <Keybuk> so you'll need to go before them
[09:08] <Kinnison> thanks for the official info
[09:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: aye, thanks
[09:09] <lucas> (next CC meeting is next tuesday)
[09:09] <Keybuk> Kinnison: I'll leave your application in the list though, rather than reject, seeing as you actually showed up :)
[09:09] <Kamion> work with MOTU is usually considered favourably by the CC, by the way
[09:09] <Kamion> although we know you anyway, which obviously helps :)
[09:09] <fabbione> Kinnison FOR PRESIDENT!
[09:09] <Keybuk> ok, Ubuntu Developers
[09:10] <mjg59> Daniel has plenty of code already in the archive, and he's worked well with existing members, so...
[09:10] <Keybuk> lmanul ?
[09:10] <Kinnison> Keybuk: sorry, I was working on some soyuz code and lost track of time
[09:10] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah
[09:10] <Keybuk> freeflying ?
[09:10] <sivang> mjg59: lol
[09:10] <Keybuk> batt ?
[09:10] <Keybuk> anyone know Ivailo Ivanov ?
[09:10] <dholbach> lmanul is in #ubuntu-desktop - I called him.
[09:10] <mjg59> dholbach: Thanks
[09:11] <Keybuk> let's give him a few seconds
[09:12] <Riddell> freeflying not on IRC, didn't discuss applying for membership with me as I remember
[09:12] <sivang> ah, tb is approving membership now as well?
[09:12] <Keybuk> no, cc does that
[09:12] <sivang> ah , ok
[09:13] <Keybuk> ok, let's carry on
[09:13] <Riddell> memership to ubuntu-dev team I ment
[09:13] <Keybuk> if lmanul comes in, we can deal with him then
[09:13] <Keybuk> Riddell: you're up
[09:13] <mjg59> "deal with"
[09:13] <mjg59> Sounds ominous
[09:14] <Riddell> Keybuk: this wasat the MOTU meeting and they referred it here
[09:14] <Keybuk> ok, please take the floor; it's your agenda item
[09:14] <Riddell> if a program is "GPL two or later" do we put a link in debian/copyright to the GPL symlink or the GPL-2 files
[09:14] <mjg59> Ha
[09:14] <Keybuk> my immediate hunch is that Debian will deal with this far better than we will
[09:14] <Keybuk> and that they're more paranoid about such things
[09:14] <Riddell> policy didn't have anything much to say
[09:14] <mjg59> Yeah, this is something that's going to have to be dealt with in Debian
[09:15] <mjg59> It's not a problem we've really had before
[09:15] <Keybuk> I don't think we should do anything different to them
[09:15] <Riddell> I think MOTU just want something consitent
[09:15] <Keybuk> we can certainly talk with them, but I think whatever they decide goes
[09:15] <mjg59> Since GPL3 doesn't exist yet, leaving it pointing at GPL2 now isn't an issue
[09:15] <Keybuk> Riddell: do you want to lead the dialogue with appropriate Debian people?
[09:15] <Riddell> Keybuk: I'd have no idea who they were
[09:15] <Keybuk> debian-policy might be a start
[09:15] <mjg59> lmanul: Hi - we've just jumped ahead to the next agenda item, we'll come back to you in a minute
[09:16] <Riddell> could do
[09:16] <mjg59> Sure. I'd recommend discussing it in Debian for now, and then us (and all the other derivatives) following suit
[09:16] <Keybuk> also debian-legal, as there may be implications, etc.
[09:16] <Keybuk> mjg59: I agree
[09:16] <Riddell> ok, I'll do that
[09:16] <mjg59> Riddell: Ok, cool
[09:17] <Keybuk> cool, lmanul welcome!  you've applied to join the MOTU?
[09:17] <lmanul> Huh... I'm a bit surprised actually
[09:17] <Keybuk> oh?
[09:17] <dholbach> :-)
[09:17] <tseng> i think i twas a dholbach recruiting scheme
[09:17] <lmanul> dholbach: told me there was something going on here so I came in
[09:17] <Keybuk> you clicked the "join the ubuntu-dev team" button in Launchpad
[09:17] <dholbach> tseng: hahaha, lmanul just became member for his rocking work on the dekstop theme
[09:18] <dholbach> s/theme/team
[09:18] <lmanul> Woops
[09:18] <lmanul> Did I made one extra click ? :-p
[09:18] <Keybuk> lmanul: would you like to be considered for joining the team? :)
[09:18] <lmanul> make
[09:18] <lmanul> The MOTU Team ?
[09:18] <Keybuk> indeed
[09:18] <lmanul> Well, sure
[09:18] <tseng> Keybuk: i havent seen any packaging experience from him to justify MOTUness
[09:18] <lmanul> But, huh...
[09:18] <sivang> wh wouldn't ? :)
[09:18] <Keybuk> have you worked much with them yet?
[09:18] <lmanul> I've never packaged anything :)
[09:19] <Keybuk> certainly your UI work is familar to us all
[09:19] <lmanul> Thanks :)
[09:19] <Keybuk> ok, I suggest your next step if you wish to take it is to work with the MOTU on packaging work, using their REVU system and sponsored uploads
[09:19] <lmanul> I'm not sure I have what it takes to become a MOTU... Do I ?
[09:19] <lucas> lmanul: are you actually interested in joining MOTU ?
[09:19] <lucas> (you are not forced too ;)
[09:19] <lmanul> lucas Sure, I am interested
[09:19] <lmanul> But I don't remember adding myself to any wiki list
[09:20] <Keybuk> ok, then I suggest chatting to dholbach and ogra, etc.
[09:20] <lmanul> Not sure I'm ready for that :)
[09:20] <lucas> lmanul: it was on launchpad
[09:20] <lmanul> All right
[09:20] <Keybuk> lmanul: we use Launchpad to track applications; you must have clicked the "Join this team" button on the ubuntu-dev page
[09:20] <Keybuk> that proposed you and added you to the agenda for this meeting :)
[09:20] <ogra> lmanul, would be cool if you could direcly work on the packages with your patches ;) 
[09:20] <lmanul> Keybuk: That's possible, I didn't know ubuntu-dev = MOTU :)
[09:20] <lmanul> ogra: Sure !
[09:20] <ogra> but i think a bit training is required ;)
[09:20] <Keybuk> ok, we'll leave him in your delicate hands then
[09:21] <lmanul> Ok, so I guess I'll get some packaging experience and come back after that ? :)
[09:21] <ogra> :)
[09:21] <ogra> yup
[09:21] <lmanul> Sorry for disturbing the meeting :p
[09:21] <Keybuk> no worries
[09:21] <mjg59> lmanul: No problem :)
[09:21] <Keybuk> Riddell: you again by the looks of it
[09:21] <Riddell> yo
[09:21] <Keybuk> xine vs. gstreamer?
[09:21] <Riddell> this was whether kubuntu dapper should ship with xine or gstreamer
[09:21] <Riddell> breezy used gstreamer 0.8
[09:21] <Keybuk> what do you think?
[09:22] <mjg59> To be honest, I'm not entirely sure that Ubuntu should ship with gstreamer as the default video framework this time around...
[09:22] <Riddell> but 0.8 is obsolete and amarok/kaffeine are not yet ported to gstreamer 0.10
[09:22] <ogra> dapper uses gstreamer0.10
[09:22] <ogra> so we'd have to support both for 3 years
[09:22] <Riddell> shipping kubuntu dapper with an obsolete gstreamer for 3 years support isn't good
[09:22] <ogra> yup
[09:22] <dholbach> It'd be good if we had Test data on either of them.
[09:23] <ogra> is xine a sane option to use instead ? 
[09:23] <Keybuk> my experience with xine is that it's not really any better than gstreamer until you add the non-free stuff and windows dlls
[09:23] <Riddell> other option is me porting kaffeine to gstreamer 0.10 (possible but will probably take lots of time) and hoping amarok gets ported in time
[09:23] <mjg59> Keybuk: gstreamer0.10 can't currently have those added
[09:23] <tseng> Keybuk: compared to gst 0.10, I agree
[09:23] <Riddell> and we have I believe a shippable xine in main now
[09:23] <mjg59> There isn't even an asf demuxer
[09:23] <ogra> Riddell, sounds not like it could be done before feature freeze
[09:23] <Keybuk> Riddell: xine is in universe right now
[09:24] <Riddell> ogra: quite probably not
[09:24] <mjg59> Keybuk: libxine1 is in main
[09:24] <Keybuk> so there are security and support implications
[09:24] <Keybuk> ah libxine-main1
[09:24] <mjg59> Yeah
[09:24] <Keybuk> sorry, I missed that
[09:24] <Riddell> libxine-dev is main
[09:24] <Riddell> and hoary has xine
[09:24] <Keybuk> my initial gut would be to try and keep one sound/video framework through all of the derivatives if possible
[09:25] <mjg59> Riddell: Personally, I think you should make the decision based on functionality and achievability. Right now we're looking at supporting libxine and gstreamer for dapper, and nobody seems to be pushing for xine to be dropped.
[09:25] <Riddell> Keybuk: yep, that's why I changed to gstreamer for breezy
[09:25] <mjg59> Riddell: gst0.8 is obviously not an option
[09:25] <Riddell> it seems like a step backwards to go back to xine
[09:25] <Riddell> but practicalities get in the way
[09:25] <mjg59> Keeping gst0.8 would mean supporting 3 media frameworks
[09:26] <mjg59> And 0.8 is pretty much dead upstream
[09:26] <Amaranth> mjg59: completely dead
[09:26] <mjg59> Amaranth: Not entirely. Ronald has discussed providing some basic level of support.
[09:26] <Amaranth> mjg59: i thought he was just going to get one last release out
[09:27] <lucas> if we chose xine, there's not much work to do. What about trying to use gst 0.10 for 2 weeks and decide during the next TB meeting ? we could always switch back to xine by then.
[09:27] <ogra> lucas, feature freeze is near 
[09:27] <Riddell> lucas: can't use gstreamer 0.10 for two weeks, the programs just are not ported
[09:27] <ogra> lucas, Riddell already said it takes to long
[09:27] <sivang> ogra: 23 feb right?
[09:27] <lucas> I meant: try to work with upstream to get it ported in time ;)
[09:27] <Riddell> amarok may be out by the end of feb, kaffeine it seems like I'd have to do myself, and i'm no expert in the area
[09:28] <ogra> sivang, i cant tell from the top of my head
[09:28] <ogra> sivang, but around this date ...
[09:28] <mjg59> Riddell: Realistically, if gst0.10 isn't an option, then go with xine.
[09:28] <ogra> (release schedule will tell you ;) )
[09:28] <lucas> 23rd
[09:28] <lucas> https://launchpad.net/people/bg+
[09:28] <dholbach> Most of the GNOME stuff already uses gstreamer internally - and that's not only rhythmbox and totem, it's gnome-media, gnome-applets, sound-juicer, ...
[09:28] <lucas> rah
[09:28] <lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[09:28] <tseng> to be clear are we talking about gst 0.10 for gnome and xine for kde?
[09:28] <mjg59> Riddell: There's no point in shipping a crippled desktop for the sake of consistency
[09:28] <mjg59> tseng: Yes
[09:28] <tseng> or xine everywhere
[09:29] <Keybuk> tseng: just considering kde at this point
[09:29] <mjg59> The former. I don't think anyone's discussed migrating gnome.
[09:29] <tseng> mjg59: thanks.
[09:29] <ogra> tseng, OMG
[09:29] <Riddell> mjg59: I think that's what I'm hoping someone would tell me
[09:29] <Riddell> it's disappointing to go back to xine in various ways but if that's what has to be done then it's the best thing
[09:30] <mjg59> Riddell: The other options are all worse
[09:30] <mjg59> I think this sort of thing is going to be an inevitable consequence of our release timing not being very in line with KDE's
[09:31] <dholbach> How much work would xine as "Plan B" be?
[09:31] <Riddell> dholbach: what would plan A be then?
[09:31] <ogra> heh
[09:31] <dholbach> Porting to gst0.10?
[09:31] <mjg59> dholbach: If the porting hasn't started, it's entirely unrealistic
[09:31] <ogra> dholbach, i think its rather the other way around 
[09:31] <mjg59> There's significant differences in the API
[09:31] <Amaranth> dholbach: that'd be porting two large applications in less than a month
[09:32] <Riddell> it's quite a change
[09:32] <lucas> is sbody familiar with the work to do ?
[09:33] <Riddell> lucas: there's a document for how to do it, but it's not trivial
[09:33] <mjg59> lucas: It is not realistic to do the ports in the time available
[09:33] <mjg59> Not if we want adequate testing
[09:33] <lucas> okay
[09:33] <Amaranth> yeah, shipping a broken amarok would not be good
[09:33] <Riddell> so if xine isn't a problem to ship I think we'll go with that, and look at gstreamer 0.10 for dapper + 1
[09:33] <lucas> so there's no choice, really :-)
[09:33] <Amaranth> not really, no
[09:33] <mjg59> Riddell: I think that's the only realistic option. Does anyone disagree?
[09:34] <Riddell> sorted, thanks all
[09:34] <Keybuk> I agree
[09:34] <mjg59> Ok. Next item?
[09:34] <Keybuk> next is lucas
[09:34] <lucas> Repository of old source packages
[09:34] <lucas> I summarized the issue on the Agenda
[09:35] <lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[09:35] <Keybuk> ok, basically this is to solve the issue where MoM sometimes doesn't have the Debian base version to hand when doing a merge ?
[09:35] <lucas> yup
[09:35] <Keybuk> it's probably worth stating at this point that it's not an easy problem
[09:36] <lucas> I'm not sure I understand where the problems are: it doesn't seem that difficult to me
[09:36] <Keybuk> you need to keep a copy of every source package since the Debian base as well
[09:36] <Keybuk> because you can't predict what the next Debian base version will be
[09:36] <Amaranth> i thought this is what the morgue was for
[09:36] <Keybuk> and the simple fact is it's hard to get every source package from Debian
[09:36] <ogra> Amaranth, yes
[09:36] <Keybuk> some of them are simply missing
[09:36] <ogra> Amaranth, but the morgue ran out of space once ...
[09:36] <sistpoty> Keybuk: is anything like this planned for LP?
[09:37] <Amaranth> ogra: and now is completely dead, afaics
[09:37] <lucas> Keybuk: how can source packages be missing from debian ?
[09:37] <Keybuk> lucas: because the maintainer uploads -1
[09:37] <Keybuk> then the next day uploads -2, -3, -4 and -5
[09:37] <Kamion> ogra: different morgue
[09:37] <Keybuk> only -5 will be published in the Debian FTP sites
[09:37] <Kamion> it's the Debian morgue that matters here
[09:37] <ogra> Kamion, ah
[09:37] <Keybuk> -2, -3 and -4 will be missing
[09:38] <lucas> ah, yes
[09:38] <Amaranth> Keybuk: but we'd only end up using -1 or -5, right?
[09:38] <Keybuk> Amaranth: that should be true, but it sometimes isn't
[09:38] <lucas> but I see the system as : copy everything + expire what we no longer need
[09:38] <Kamion> Amaranth: not necessarily, especially if the Debian and Ubuntu maintainers are the same
[09:38] <Kamion> or if the Ubuntu maintainer pulls from incoming
[09:38] <Keybuk> and the simple fact is we already do this
[09:38] <Amaranth> hrm
[09:38] <Keybuk> and actually do it in such a way that -2, -3 and -4 *are* available to us too
[09:39] <Keybuk> and we still miss some sometimes
[09:39] <lucas> having you investigated the reasons for this ?
[09:39] <lucas> It seems that we miss a lot of them
[09:39] <Keybuk> not fully
[09:40] <Keybuk> it's not really something I've had time for
[09:40] <Keybuk> we tend to fix mom at the start of each distro cycle
[09:40] <Keybuk> and by the end it's not working well
[09:40] <Kamion> perhaps time investigating why would be better spent than time duplicating the existing system ...
[09:40] <Kamion> (to lucas)
[09:41] <Keybuk> we used to use snapshot.debian.net as an archive of old debian packages
[09:41] <Keybuk> but that crashed
[09:41] <lucas> ok, but then, how can I help investigating this ? :)
[09:41] <Keybuk> so we've since used a morgue published by the Debian FTP masters
[09:41] <Keybuk> lucas: pick a package for which it picked an older version that it should, and try to find out when that version was published, and whether it was mirrored to Debian's mirrors, etc.
[09:42] <lucas> Keybuk: is MoM's source available somewhere ?
[09:42] <Keybuk> no, MoM is not open source
[09:42] <Keybuk> mostly because it's very crap code
[09:42] <Keybuk> and totally unfit for release to the world
[09:43] <Kamion> I'm sure they should ...
[09:44] <lucas> Keybuk: could I have a copy of the code then ? so I could understand the inner workings better
[09:44] <Keybuk> lucas: I'd have to talk to Mark about it, you may have to sign an NDA, etc.
[09:44] <Keybuk> it's not that clever, it just downloads the packages and diffs them
[09:44] <Keybuk> it's almost certainly not a mom bug
[09:45] <Keybuk> but a problem at Debian's end
[09:45] <lucas> opensourcing MoM would be great to enhance collaboration with debian
[09:45] <lucas> since it would help make it more useful for debian maintainers too
[09:45] <lucas> (is MoM in charge of generating "scott's patches" too ?
[09:45] <Keybuk> no, a program called NDA does that
[09:46] <Keybuk> tbh
[09:46] <Keybuk> looking at the problem right now
[09:46] <Keybuk> it's simply that Debian's morgue has run out of disk space again
[09:46] <lucas> ok
[09:46] <Kamion> /dev/cciss/c0d0p7    690834712 689351076   1483636 100% /org
[09:46] <Keybuk> they only have up to 2005-11-07 published
[09:47] <Keybuk> :p
[09:47] <Kamion> so it has
[09:47] <Keybuk> there we go then
[09:47] <lucas> so, back to my initial proposal, it might still be a good idea to have our own morgue
[09:47] <Keybuk> I'll make it a personal task to go speak to the Debian FTP master and arrange for another go
[09:47] <Kamion> when does snapshot.d.n date back to?
[09:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: dunno, I got bored of trying to find out because it still claims to have the files and just 404s them
[09:48] <Keybuk> obviously this is all kinda moot since merge-fest is now over until the feisty cycle
[09:48] <lucas> because doing MOTU work when you don't have the base version really is a PITA
[09:48] <Kamion> it claims 2005/03/13
[09:48] <Kamion> do mom/nda try snapshot.debian.net to see if it works?
[09:48] <Keybuk> Kamion: no, not currently, because Python's urllib doesn't handle 404s :)
[09:48] <Kamion> fixing that might help a lot
[09:49] <Amaranth> urllib2?
[09:49] <Keybuk> Amaranth: that was more complicated and less well documented <g>
[09:50] <Amaranth> Keybuk: sure, but urllib is also mostly dead
[09:50] <lucas> using snapshot.d.n or the ftpmaster's morgue doesn't seem like a solution on the long term to me ...
[09:50] <Kamion> seems like a perfectly good solution to me, actually
[09:50] <Kamion> I mean, AIUI, we're basically rsyncing the Debian morgue locally, aren't we?
[09:50] <Keybuk> mjg59: ?
[09:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: pretty much, yes
[09:51] <lucas> well, if it runs out of space regularly without use noticing
[09:51] <lucas> there's no point in using it
[09:51] <Kamion> there's no difference between that and "keeping our own morgue", other than acquisition method
[09:51] <Amaranth> perhaps i way of marking ubuntu changes in the package itself could work?
[09:51] <Kamion> once != regularly
[09:51] <Amaranth> so you wouldn't need the original
[09:51] <lucas> two times already
[09:51] <Kamion> the last time MOM failed it was because snapshot.d.n broke
[09:51] <Kamion> AIUI
[09:52] <mjg59> I'm afraid I don't know enough about MOM to have strong opinions on this
[09:52] <Keybuk> Amaranth: that would require a new source format, etc.
[09:52] <Kamion> using two different sources should be adequate redundancy, if Keybuk fixes the inability to handle 404s
[09:52] <Keybuk> mjg59: big evil hacky python script, downloads three versions, mashes them together with diff and patch to make a fourth
[09:52] <Kamion> well, two plus the various others that are already tried
[09:52] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah
[09:52] <Keybuk> it's nowhere near as clever or useful as everyone thinks it is
[09:53] <Amaranth> three versions?
[09:53] <Keybuk> Amaranth: Current Ubuntu, Current Debian, Common Base
[09:53] <Amaranth> oh, new debian, ubuntu, original debian
[09:54] <lucas> Keybuk: couldn't you talk with mark about opensourcing MoM and NDA ?
[09:54] <lucas> so other people could work on improving them
[09:54] <Keybuk> lucas: it's not so much a Mark issue, it's a me issue
[09:54] <Keybuk> I seriously don't believe the code is any kind of fit state to release
[09:54] <lucas> I didn't talk about release
[09:54] <Keybuk> releasing implies support
[09:54] <lucas> just put it in bzr somewhere
[09:54] <Keybuk> it implies accepting patches
[09:55] <ajmitch> it implies people asking 'wtf?' about parts of the code
[09:55] <sistpoty> imo having MoM reports at hand is a nice addon but not absolutely necessary to do merges; but I guess that many other MOTU's think different about that.
[09:55] <lucas> so it's better to have a not-so-good MoM ?
[09:55] <sivang> Keybuk: maybe this could be rewritten from scratch ? ;-)
[09:55] <Keybuk> lucas: I don't really see how it's useful to anyone either, tbh
[09:55] <Keybuk> it's full of very Ubuntu-specific coe
[09:55] <Keybuk> like filing bugs in Malone
[09:56] <Keybuk> sivang: it's been "to be replaced by something in Launchpad" for a while now
[09:57] <lucas> I've heard quite a lot of comments about nda's output not being considered very helpful by debian maintainers
[09:57] <sivang> Keybuk: ah, I see. I guess this should come rather quick then not now Soyuz is pushed to landing.
[09:57] <Keybuk> lucas: nobody's ever made them to me
[09:57] <lucas> (like: it doesn't list source packages by maintainer)
[09:57] <Kamion> clearly the output of any automated tool is going to be less useful than people reporting bugs with patches manually
[09:57] <Kamion> although, yes, source packages by maintainer would be useful to me even :)
[09:57] <Keybuk> lucas: no, but it provides something for Debian to write their own page like that
[09:58] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/PATCHES
[09:58] <Keybuk> ^ was added at Debian's request so they could build systems around "the current Ubuntu patch set"
[09:58] <Keybuk> the Debian PTS uses it, for example
[09:58] <Keybuk> it's far easier for Debian to write things to their taste than to file bugs, and have us do it when we have time
[09:59] <lucas> my point is not about debian collaboration. It's about nda/mom not being as good as they could be.
[09:59] <Keybuk> they do the job well enough
[10:00] <Keybuk> everything could be better
[10:00] <Keybuk> but at some point you have to stop polishing and move on
[10:00] <lucas> ok
[10:00] <lucas> I'm not really satisfied, but I think we can move to next point
[10:01] <lucas> since nothing else is going to get out of this one
[10:01] <Keybuk> I'll happily take suggestions for improvement via e-mail, if they're good ideas
[10:01] <Keybuk> but yes
[10:01] <Keybuk> let's move on
[10:01] <Keybuk> any other business?
[10:02] <Keybuk> ok then
[10:02] <Keybuk> see you all in two weeks, everyone
[10:03] <dholbach> see you Keybuk :-)
[10:04] <ogra> Keybuk, thanks for running the meeting :)
[10:48] <lucas> for those still around: there are 1401 reports generated by MoM
[10:48] <lucas> in 477 of them, the correct base version could not be used