=== lucasd [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-118-222.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-118-222.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["So] === Ubuntuser_Ba [n=Fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has joined #Ubuntu-meeting === Ubuntuser_Ba [n=Fabio@ubuntu/member/ubuntuser] has left #Ubuntu-meeting [] === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 1 Feb 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 1 Feb 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 2 Feb 10:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 2 Feb 23:00 UTC: Artwork Team | 3 Feb 21:00 UTC: Joint UDSF/Forums/DocTeam Meeting | 7 Feb 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 14 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-68-126-148-154.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tseng [n=tseng@unaffiliated/tseng] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === smurf [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fabbione [n=fabbione@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [n=JaneW@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Nuffing [n=JaneW@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmont [n=jmont@200.215.89.146] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmont is now known as jmont-auei === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@licio.estaminas.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmont-auei is now known as jmont === jmont is now known as jmont-trampando === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.195.17] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kjcole [n=kjcole@dsl092-145-217.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:05] kjcole: can you give me a call? [01:05] Man, I'm beat. Was out at the "State of Emergency" protest last night, for all the good it did. [01:05] jelkner, at school right? [01:05] yup === flint [n=flint@69-173-179-231.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:07] god it is early... [01:09] morning [01:10] JaneW, ogra, you folks back from lunch? [01:11] flint: not lunched yet. [01:11] Are we meeting this morning? [01:11] ogra went out for a smoke [01:12] well, I suppose we are...Jeff. [01:12] I only have 15 more minutes, if we don't start soon, I'll miss it [01:12] dholbach, of course, I should join him... [01:12] dholbach, how is it going there? [01:13] jelkner, you could do a doc report and then go tame the screaming kids... :^) [01:13] spacey: fine, apart from everybody being ill :) [01:13] certainly [01:13] kevin and i got together last sunday [01:14] we have updated the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook [01:14] dholbach, oh:/ that sucks [01:14] spacey, sorry about the sick part. the flu? [01:14] flint, i'm not sick :p [01:14] Yep. [01:14] jelkner, strong opening, this is good stuff, what else? [01:14] anyone interested in contributing to the cookbook, could choose their favorite "recipe" and write it up... [01:15] dholbach, contanmination sprint [01:15] :P [01:15] gar! :) [01:15] we will be meeting again next Sunday to outline which recipies we think are essential. [01:15] spacey, atta boy! :^) [01:15] that's it for our report. [01:15] questions? [01:15] jelkner, where is a list of the recipies? [01:16] I like what I see on your web site Jeff. [01:16] spacey: we will be working on that next sunday [01:16] we don't have them yet [01:16] next week we will === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.213.188] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:16] Let me think of a softball question like they would ask Bush at a news conference... [01:16] jelkner, if you have a list of that, i might have time to write a few [01:17] spacey: great! [01:17] ok, gotta run... [01:18] ...that was painless... [01:19] hello :/ [01:19] JaneW, you just missed jeff... [01:19] yeah sorry [01:20] we are at the DistroSprintDeathPlague [01:20] he actually did a very coherant doc report... [01:20] the what? [01:20] I am on line so I'll scroll back and catch up [01:20] well 9 of the 16 ppl here are down with a nasty bug [01:20] the rest are waiting with bated breath to see if we are going to die too [01:21] JaneW: oh my god, waht seems to be the bug? [01:21] nobody has grown wings, so it might not be bird flu [01:21] sivang: fever, headache, vomitting, diarroea - you get the idea [01:22] ogra: got time for a quick tech update? [01:22] hmpf ... [01:22] careful I can throw a danish at you ;) [01:22] you got that in the sprint update already ... [01:22] there is not much to add, i could copy and paste though [01:22] ogra, did you enjoy the cigarette with coffee? [01:23] flint, which of the 10 i head already [01:23] JaneW: lol [01:23] (smoking apparently prevents me from getting ill) [01:23] the best times are smoking... === jsgotangco [n=jsg@125.212.120.177] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:24] so tech update.... seeing that i get ltsp in shape with all the functions we need before feture freeze [01:24] we found an evil bug with the system clock i should solve currently instead of chatting ... [01:24] JaneW: are you all right? And how come you speak Danish? Har du noen gang boet i Danmark? [01:24] ogra: yeah cut and paste for those that didn;t read [01:25] seems we need ntpdate to run on the client and a ntp server on the ltsp server, else udev cant create devices if the hardware clock is jfar out of sync [01:25] edubuntu meeting? [01:25] jsgotangco: seems so :) [01:25] simira: I am ok I think , feeling a bit spaced out though. I mean a Danish PASTRY though [01:25] hehe, ok === sivang visualized that, err [01:25] * LTSP work included sanitizing all the LTSP breakage which occurred due [01:25] to changes in the underlying Dapper architecture - this is now fixed and [01:25] running again. [01:25] * Work was done on Xauthority handling on LTSP to allow secure [01:25] authentication of thin clients to the Edubuntu server. [01:25] * Thin Client Low Memory Usage: netboot mode in initramfs tools added [01:25] and integrated to LTSP - still to be tested and uploaded. [01:25] * Reverted the change of the SIaddr that breaks the LTSP booting with [01:26] oh great i got to attend one again =) [01:26] DHCPD. This prevents breakage on upgrades of LTSP set-ups. [01:26] jsgotangco: :) wb [01:26] but currently that time bug has the highes prio, since i need to work with the people that are left before they also fall dead [01:27] from sprint to sick bed :^) [01:27] ogra, how is amd64? [01:27] jsgotangco, works fine === jsgotangco would like to test an amd daily in a few days [01:28] i havent gotten around to set the default chroot creation in the installer to i386 yet [01:28] which i think makes sense ... but i dnot know if its possible to do for just oine arch === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"] [01:29] who is in charge of edubuntu documentation for dapper, over and above the cookbook? jsgotangco ? [01:29] jsgotangco, wait some days before testing, currently the ltsp client is broken ... the next uploads will fix this [01:29] JaneW, still jelkner and kjcole [01:29] JaneW, what jeff reported on is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook it is a start. [01:29] JaneW, what needs to be updated? i still have my olld sources [01:30] jsgotangco, probably the mizilla page ... [01:30] JaneW, as for cookbook, i have no relationship to it for dapper [01:30] *mozilla [01:30] ok [01:30] we made a shorter one [01:30] i'll update [01:30] Let me rephrase... who is in charge of edubuntu documentation for dapper, other than the cookbook? [01:30] about edubuntu and release notes etc [01:30] i can only think of releasenotes and about [01:31] ditto [01:31] i'll take charge of that then [01:31] if there are several parts of documentation that are missing out, i don't might writing it up [01:31] jsgotangco: cool thanks, will you have time? [01:31] JaneW, yes [01:31] jsgotangco: have you worked with that pdf guy yet? [01:31] spacey, great thanks please co-ord with jsgotangco [01:31] JaneW, he hasn't been communicating, i'll bug him [01:31] jsgotangco: hmmm... [01:32] JaneW, its a bit too late for dapper, but we can make a plan for it [01:32] DITA is the future [01:32] JaneW, is the plan that all docs be in pdf? [01:33] JaneW, outside of the cookbook I mean. [01:33] flint: I am not clear on the plan jsgotangco would know more [01:33] flint, this is more of a toolchain project rather than edubuntu specific === jsgotangco digs for old emails [01:34] JaneW, you asked about the "pdf guy" what a great name! :^) [01:34] gotcha Jane [01:34] well his name is Mark Johnson, know that I think about it [01:35] jsgotangco, I am slow, what is DITA? === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:35] JaneW, I think he should change his name... Mark Johnson is pretty plain. chicks dig "the pdf guy"... [01:36] flint: agreed [01:36] orga would the brower in edubuntu default to the doc pages? [01:37] flint, it will default to the about page [01:37] (which might contain links to the docs) [01:37] flint, Darwin Information Typing Architecture [01:37] indeed... the about page could be customized to link to these very docs... [01:37] (DITA XML) [01:38] jsgotangco, thank you, a morning without a new acronym is like a morning without coffee...like this morning...argh! [01:39] jsgotangco, the trick with the docs is how to get the average install to read them. when I installed, the first thing I did was click on that silly fox. [01:39] JaneW, I LIKE the fox :^) [01:40] ok any more edubuntu business? [01:40] highvoltage: ? [01:40] anyway ollie how hard set is the html for that page? [01:40] you said you wanted to discuss web stuff today? [01:41] also I have been chatting with hno73 and he supports the idea of MOIN for edubuntu website [01:41] mhz around? [01:42] cool [01:42] sorry, i'm here, but i'm also not [01:43] JaneW: hi [01:44] hi jonathan! [01:44] hi mr flint! [01:44] flint: how's the cookbook? [01:45] there is progress: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook [01:45] highvoltage, it is far from being hot and on the table :^) [01:46] I would say they are cutting up the carrots and looking for the soup pot. [01:46] :) [01:46] I personally have found the sherry :^) [01:46] highvoltage: Henrik supports the idea of using MOIN instead of drupal for the site... === JaneW drank maple whiskey last night... [01:47] JaneW: i'm actually very ambivilant between the two, both are good. === JaneW congratualted flint for getting Jonathan right ;) [01:47] flint: yes, thank you! [01:47] highvoltage: the ubuntu site is moin now and it looks good [01:47] JaneW, I have to go and check EVERY TIME, but you are welcome!!! [01:47] highvoltage: it may make sense to standardise, and unify to a degree [01:48] it's less work too :) [01:48] it's just philip who feels really, really strong that it should be drupal [01:48] JaneW, in this case I really feel that it is not about the tool. lets get something out there and deal tools on the back end. [01:48] and he had lots of ideas which he says depends more or less on it. [01:48] but i'm sure you could get those tools in moin with some work too [01:50] highvoltage, Jonathan I just think of the text processing fun one could have cross converting between all these damn tools (choy curl :^) [01:50] I meant "holy curl" [01:50] yes, there's that too [01:51] ok i've seeded initial Edubuntu 6.04 docs (not cookbook) in svn [01:51] I have played with moin and drupal, and a few others. all can handle content. as we say in cookbook land, "where is the beef?" [01:51] great [01:52] highvoltage: how involved is phillip now? [01:52] flint: look at www.ubuntu.com - like what you see? = moin [01:52] jsgotangco, for the svn crippled, how do I get to them? we take this offline? [01:52] JaneW: he's gone a bit quiet, i think mainly because of the drupal stuff, i think he likes workign with drupal a lot, somehow [01:53] if we stick with moin, i can at least get the translators going on the web content. [01:53] there's about 7 people wanting to translate the edubuntu site into different languages. [01:53] flint, you grab it via svn but its in docbook source...i'll give you the link later [01:53] (each a different one) [01:53] JaneW, no need to sell any tool... all I know is that I have to register again and again because none of the tools allow cross passwords! [01:53] JaneW: you mean, wiki.ubuntu.com ? [01:54] sivang: both [01:54] JaneW: AFAIK this is Plone at the front [01:54] we dont use plone since breezy anymore [01:54] ah , I didn't know plone was moved out from the main site. [01:54] sivang: no it's not, it was migrated, it's moin now [01:54] thats why plone is in universe ;) === JaneW has a login now *efg* [01:54] ogra: heh [01:55] its moin, we've been doing in the OpenCD project too [01:55] the tabs are moin [01:57] JaneW, I do know you are hell on wheels with the moin meta-language for links and etc... :^) [01:58] well Hendrik made a helpful help page with tips as well, so I can learn more now [01:58] highvoltage: anyway think about it, but it's your call in the end, I just rem there were security concerns about drupal. [01:58] jsgotangco: indeed [01:58] ogra, my remaining question is how hard set is the "about page"? [01:59] pity mhz is not here, he touts moin every chance he gets [01:59] flint, its the default page, it gets set by the artwork page [01:59] s/page/package/ [01:59] JaneW, the default page of the browser is where the results of our document labor end up. [02:00] na it gets set up in the profile thingy in firefox... [02:00] firefox can only point to one page that is the same location for ubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu ... [02:00] the different artwork packages replace this file ... [02:00] it is not a url at first ollie it is a file [02:00] its a file:/// url [02:00] ok gotcha... [02:00] flint, we'd like to put it on docfreeze too to open up for translations (that's why we'd love to do xml) [02:01] flint, which is hardcoded in firefox [02:01] ogra, am I more nuts than usual to want to find the docs when I open the browser? [02:02] flint, as i said, there should be no probelm to add links to that page [02:02] flint, do you want to add the cookbook in the distro? [02:02] (Unote that file:/// can also be a link) [02:02] ogra, there is not enough space on the CD for the cookbook. [02:02] jsgotangco, i doubt that will be ready in time for being packaged in dapper [02:02] i agree [02:03] ogra, I think the docs that Jsgotangco is cooking could open as links on the default browser page [02:03] flint, i'd love to drop all KDE stuff to make space available ;) [02:03] (but we're lacking replacements yet) [02:03] ogra, that was harsh.... [02:04] flint, it takes a huge amount of space to hold all the dependencys for kdeedu on the cd [02:04] yeah [02:04] that kevin, he was there all the time! [02:05] anyway, I gotta get coffee. excellent conspiracy this morning. Thanks!!!! [02:05] sksk === flint [n=flint@69-173-179-231.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [02:05] sorry that was a bit disjointed folks [02:06] we are multitasking here and a bit disease infected. [02:06] thanks for the cook book work and updates [02:06] same time, same place next week, and hopefully we'll have good progress by then :) [02:06] I may have some exciting news to share then too. [02:07] i still havent seen any cookbook source :/ [02:11] JaneW: if majority is happy with moin, then so am i [02:11] it's lunch time - over and out [02:12] btw [02:12] here's a very, very early version of the troubleshooter i talked about at the summit: [02:12] http://jonathancarter.co.za/projects/xola/index.py [02:13] it's layout is awkward and it's still very strange, but it should give you a vague idea of where it might be going to [02:15] wow [02:16] that is so cool [02:16] thanks :) [02:17] long term goal is to have a nice wiki-style editor for all the options, so that the help desk of who-ever is deploying the installations can easily edit the entire thing. [02:17] yes that would be really cool [02:17] hrmmm [02:17] this could be great to adapt for ubuntu itself [02:17] make it a wee bit smaller i guess [02:17] yeah. [02:17] wonder if this can run off yelp [02:18] it's probably going to become smaller anyway, those penguins are expensive on screen space. [02:18] do you want to try this out on Yelp? [02:19] i would if i had the time, i think mdke suggested the same [02:19] thign [02:19] how would this work with yelp? [02:19] yelp can render html [02:19] but that's static [02:19] this is a python script [02:19] hrmm [02:21] this python script is still very static [02:21] i plan to have the data in a sqlite database later on [02:21] hmm can i take a peek? [02:21] i can try it over the weekend [02:21] of course, don't expect much though [02:22] its ok [02:22] can i tar it up and e-mail it to you? [02:22] yes thanks [02:22] it's less than 800k, including images [02:22] alright [02:22] jgotangco@ubuntu.com? [02:22] yeah === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.12] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-202-218.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lguerra [i=lguerra@200.21.93.195] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jmont-trampando is now known as jmont === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === jsgotangco [n=jsg@125.212.120.177] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasd [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasd [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasds [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasds is now known as lucasd === Stormx2 [n=Stormx2@host-87-240-137-127.hi-velocity.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === xpepe [n=xpepe@251.Red-213-98-124.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lfittl_ [n=lfittl@83-65-245-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-245-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fabbione [n=fabbione@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasd [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=tobias@p54A644E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tseng [n=tseng@unaffiliated/tseng] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:59] hi [08:59] hello [09:00] hi everyone [09:00] hi all [09:00] seems like many MOTU are missing [09:00] :( [09:00] hi all [09:00] ok, welcome to the meeting [09:01] please state your names for the minutes === sistpoty is StefanPotyra === lucas is LucasNussbaum === lfittl is LukasFittl [09:01] ChuckShort [09:01] hi all, I will watch not sure will stay to end [09:01] I added most (all?) of the points on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings . All points are just discussion points, so I think we should proceed with the meeting even if not everybody is here [09:02] yes [09:02] first of all, anybody willing to do the minutes for this meeting? [09:02] sistpoty: I can do them if you want === zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:02] hello [09:02] cool, great [09:03] ok, let's move to the first point... lucas go ahead plz [09:03] ok [09:03] I'm just looking for feedback about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools [09:03] (which generates http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ ) [09:03] are people using it ? what's missing ? etc === bmon [n=monnahan@132.Red-83-40-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:04] are there some MOTU teams who would like some more specific reports (like the ruby one) ? [09:04] lucas: I'm not using it (I didn't knew about it) but it's a good idea IMHO [09:05] hm... iirc the science team wanted s.th. like it. but I don't remember if it was raphing or laserjock who wanted to start a branch from it [09:05] laserjock [09:05] he started something [09:06] anyone else ? ;) [09:06] lucas: can you split the list somehow? [09:06] based on what ? [09:06] lucas: the whole list is 1.7Mb which is quite big... [09:06] that's why I'm proposing to generate smaller reports [09:06] lucas: not quite sure what would be reasonable... maybe alphabet or sections or s.th. else [09:07] with only a specific set of packages [09:07] lucas: yes... but just as addon ;) [09:07] mmh, I could generate one with only packages outdated in ubuntu [09:07] since it's probably the most interesting part [09:07] that would be great :) [09:08] ok [09:08] apart from that I also think it's pretty feature complete. good work! [09:08] lucas: outdated in debian and not in debian should also get their own page [09:09] ok [09:09] I recently discovered that data from the Debian PTS was available on http://qa.debian.org/data/ddpo/results/ [09:09] apart from that, well done :) [09:09] I'll try to integrate some of it (like the bug numbers) [09:09] cool :) [09:10] ok [09:10] next point ? [09:10] yes, move on [09:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT [09:10] Debian Collaboration Team [09:10] question: what do you think ? [09:12] lucas: I would be interested to help with this, although I am no MOTU yet.. [09:13] no problem: if you have some experience with packaging/bug reporting etc, it's ok [09:13] hm... I remember bits of the discussion when utnubu was founded, which resulted iirc that it is better to directly contact the debian maintainer... [09:13] sistpoty: some people don't do it [09:13] yes, which is not really good imo [09:13] lucas: I comment if I may [09:13] lucas: k, perfect, let's talk about this after the meeting [09:14] well, I don't think we can force ubuntu devs to report bugs to Debian [09:14] also, DCT would be a way to put some pressure on Debian maintainers [09:14] but having the DCT to give back the changes might lead to the idea "oh we have DCT to report back changes why should I do it then?", which should be avoided [09:14] lucas: DCT is good as a team of people comitted to their work that get notified by regular developers to do some work and keep track of this [09:14] by forcing them to deal with bugs promptly [09:15] but generally I think DCT is a good idea [09:15] ok [09:15] any other comments [09:15] ? [09:16] re [09:16] sorry for being late [09:16] my proposal would be: just go ahead and try it out and see how it works out [09:16] hi siretart [09:16] ok [09:16] anybody else interested in helping ? [09:16] dct [09:16] I made some thoughts about this [09:16] ah [09:16] go ahead :) [09:16] to be honest, I'm a bit sceptical [09:17] because I don't really see the point in that project [09:17] I mean, the members are basically commiting to submitting patches and doing work vice versa [09:17] did I get this right? [09:18] siretart: the problem is that in theory, members should submit patches upstream [09:18] however, there are many changes which should be reported in Debian but aren't [09:18] lucas: right. [09:19] if there's a CC or TB decision saying that it's WRONG not to report changes upstream, DCT isn't needed [09:19] lucas: I think a team like the DCT should rather focus on making proposal how collaboration could be improved, and give recommendations on how that goal can be achieved [09:19] (I would prefer such a decision) === rob^^^ [n=rcaskey@cai17.music.uga.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:20] I think some people overrate the tb. it gives decisions on technical problems. this is partly a technical problem === lucasd [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucasd] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Fui] [09:20] maybe CC would be best suited [09:20] I don't think the tb nor the CC can change the way people think, or tell them how to work [09:21] in some way, it can [09:21] it could say : if have to do that [09:21] s/if/you [09:22] lucas: I don't say the DCT is a bad idea. it may be quite possible that I didn't get the idea right [09:22] lucas: did you get feedback from debian so far about DCT? [09:22] I haven't really announced it to Debian [09:22] only utnubu [09:23] siretart: no offense taken :-) [09:23] lucas: I have the impression that, given to the very few responses yet, most people fear that working on the DCT mean going through endless lists of patches, writing emails to people who are likely to not even notice that === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:23] and this is what makes me very sceptical [09:24] "going through endless lists of patches" <= probably [09:24] meh I'm late [09:24] "writing emails to people who are likely to not even notice that" <= no, because it's a win-win solution [09:24] the debian maintainer HAS to care [09:24] or we are just going to stop working with him [09:24] I'd rather like to see the DCT to be a forum which makes recommendations on how collaboration can be improved [09:24] there's already utnubu for this, I think [09:25] but thats just my personal opinion. you asked for comments ;) [09:25] oh, one thing I just found in the DCT wiki-page: "Provide better (more verbose) changelog entries" [09:25] ^^ this is not only good for debian collaboration, but also for team maintenance, so PLEASE DO! ;) [09:25] sistpoty: yeah. but I don't expect the DCT to fix my changelogs [09:26] sistpoty: I could imagine that the DCT could make some charts about 'worst merging changelogs ever' ;) [09:26] siretart: this is in the list of things you can do to help as a DCT outsider [09:26] siretart: he, no I wanted to tell this to every motu, esp. hopefuls ;) [09:27] sistpoty: right. but regular uploaders (me included) also write bad/confusing changelog entries [09:27] I need to improve [09:27] from my minutes: [09:27] Several people mentionned that Ubuntu devs should already send patches and report bugs upstream. However, it's often not the case, especially for MOTUs who deal with a lot of packages. It would be great to have an official position : is it considered "OK" or "WRONG" for Ubuntu developers to forget to report worthy changes to the Debian BTS ? [09:28] we all agree on that ? [09:28] (it's a bit hard for me to write the minutes since I'm obviously biaised) [09:28] morning, sorry I'm late :) [09:28] hi ajmitch [09:29] lucas: what are you asking. is it reasonable to send patches or if it was reasonable to define guidelines how to do merges? [09:30] siretart: I'm asking whether ubuntu devs are "supposed" to submit patches to the BTS. [09:30] or if it's OK not to do it. [09:30] lucas: I don't think we need an official statement for that, since it's already there (at least somewhere in the wiki), that it is considered good practice to forward patches [09:30] sistpoty: yeah, but is it considered bad practice not to ? :-) [09:31] good point [09:31] lucas: not directly, but indirectly ;) === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:32] what might also be good would be some school-lesson on how to use BTS and submit patches back to debian, what do you think? [09:32] it's already quite well documented on the wiki [09:32] ajmitch: did you manage to catch up the backlog? I'd like to hear the opinion from someone with a Debian hat on [09:32] I'm not sure it's necessary [09:32] lucas: which page are you reffering to? [09:32] mmh :) [09:33] sistpoty: I think this is an excellent topic for a lesson! [09:33]