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[03:13] <Zanoi> &wc
[03:13] <Zanoi> ops
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[10:02] <Riddell> Mez: hi
[10:06] <seth> good morning riddell
[10:06] <seth> you're up moderately early
[10:09] <Hobbsee> wow...morning Riddell 
[10:10] <Riddell> it's saturday! a whole day of hacking ahead of me
[10:11] <Tm_T> lucky you ;)
[10:11] <Tm_T> lucky we!
[10:16] <Hobbsee> yay!
[10:17] <Hobbsee> does that mean that i should ask you for help then?
[10:17] <Hobbsee> or leave you to your hacking in peace?
[10:18] <Riddell> Hobbsee: go ahead
[10:18] <Hobbsee> getting the bugs out of asciiquarium
[10:18] <Hobbsee> tried to build it, but got this...
[10:18] <Hobbsee> *finds link*
[10:19] <Hobbsee> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7969
[10:20] <Riddell> it's trying to copy to /usr/bin
[10:20] <Riddell> you want to copy to $(CWD)/debian/tmp/usr/bin  or the like
[10:20] <Riddell> slap it on revu and I can take a look at it
[10:21] <Hobbsee> *nods* - what's $(CWD)?
[10:21] <Tm_T> CoWarD?
[10:21] <Tm_T> ;)
[10:21] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:21] <Tm_T> ok, more caffeine ->
[10:22] <Hobbsee> and the command for uploading the bits you want is?  it's no longer in my history...
[10:24] <Hobbsee> oh...current working directory?
[10:25] <seth> ugh, 3:30 am
[10:25] <seth> bed for me
[10:25] <seth> g'night all
[10:26] <Riddell> current working directory
[10:27] <Riddell> variable may not be correct
[10:27] <Riddell> debuild -S -sa; cd ..; dput revu foo.dsc
[10:28] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[10:30] <Hobbsee> shoot!
[10:31] <Hobbsee> double shoot!
[10:31] <Riddell> hmm?
[10:32] <Hobbsee> my keys are no longer there....i must have lost that folder in the reinstall...
[10:32] <Hobbsee> i have the revoke.asc, but that's it
=== Hobbsee sighs in relief
[10:33] <Hobbsee> it's in the backup
[10:33] <Riddell> phew
[10:34] <Hobbsee> ok
[10:35] <Hobbsee> Not a .changes file.
[10:35] <Hobbsee> Please select a .changes file to upload.
[10:35] <Hobbsee> Tried to upload: aasaver_0.3.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[10:35] <Hobbsee> and i'm not sure that dput is still configured
[10:35] <Hobbsee> in fact, if it's in /etc/ it wont be
[10:36] <Riddell> good point 
[10:36] <Riddell> dput revu *changes
[10:36] <Hobbsee> argh!  remind me to never, ever reinstall again!
[10:36] <Riddell> keep your /home on a separate partition
[10:37] <Hobbsee> i did - i had a backup of the entire thing - but that doesnt save all the settings in /etc
[10:37] <Hobbsee> ok, they're uploaded
[10:45] <Mez> Riddell: did you get my email
[10:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: gotta go to dinner, back in an hour or so
[10:46] <Riddell> Mez: yep
[10:46] <Mez> good to hear :D
[10:46] <Riddell> Mez: I can't upload anything just now, soyuz rollout
[10:46] <Mez> lol - see I am working on them - slowly but surely
[10:47] <Riddell> :)
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[11:17] <Mez> whens it gonna be finished rolling out?
[11:17] <Mez> and will we upload in the same old manner
[11:19] <Riddell> Mez: nobody knows.  yes see ubuntu-devel-announce
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[12:00] <MrFaber> hi all
=== MrFaber pings mornfall 
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=== mornfall bounces
[12:04] <mornfall> what?
[12:05] <mornfall> MrFaber: hi
[12:05] <MrFaber> hi mornfall 
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[12:05] <MrFaber> I have a suggestion for adept
[12:06] <MrFaber> If I remove a package on which other depends it removes all. Thats ok but there should be at least a warning
[12:06] <MrFaber> Otherwise it is very easy to destroy whole system
[12:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: pign
[12:06] <Hobbsee> *ping
[12:08] <mornfall> MrFaber: CLOSED DUPLICATE 112819
[12:08] <MrFaber> mornfall: ?
[12:08] <mornfall> MrFaber: consult http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112819
[12:09] <MrFaber> mornfall: thanks
[12:10] <MrFaber> sorry, I couldn' test it in dapper
[12:10] <mornfall> MrFaber: it's not fixed, just that it is already filed, so no need to ask again
[12:10] <mornfall> i will get to it when i have time
[12:11] <MrFaber> great
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[12:20] <jpatrick> Riddell: is someone gonna patch KWord - or should I?
[12:25] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: Riddell asked me to build versions that were on http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/koffice/ so i'm presuming it already got patched
[12:25] <Riddell> jpatrick: yeah, we're working on it
[12:26] <jpatrick> Riddell: ok, cool
=== mornfall coding to the tune of $artist - $title
[12:27] <mornfall> err
[12:27] <mornfall> coding to the tune of Suzanne Vega - (I'll never be) your Maggie May
[12:27] <mornfall> that's better :)
[12:27] <Hobbsee> hehe
=== jpatrick gets back to fixing kalzium-simulations
[12:29] <Hobbsee> chug chug chug....building...
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=== Hobbsee wishes she had a faster computer at this point
[12:40] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: so do I
[12:40] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[12:41] <Hobbsee> think this will end up running while i sleep, then will be done when i come back in the morning
[12:41] <Hobbsee> and so i'll probably end up starting the breezy one before work tomorrow, and letting it run
[12:41] <Hobbsee> that'll get them all done in....24 hours or so...
[12:53] <jpatrick> Riddell: kalzium-simulations lives!
=== Hobbsee watches kalzium-simulations suddenly die on jpatrick 
[12:55] <Riddell> jpatrick: amazing what you can do with a bit of chemistry :)
[12:56] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I can't see asciiquarium on revu
[12:56] <Hobbsee> *sighs* i did the command...
[12:56] <Hobbsee> is there an aasaver on there?
[12:56] <Riddell> oh, yes there is
[12:57] <Hobbsee> that's it :)
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[01:18] <Riddell> Hobbsee: aasaver uses scons
[01:18] <Riddell> a whole new build system
[01:18] <Riddell> I got it working using the debian/rules file from kdissert
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[01:18] <Riddell> (with kdissert specific parts removed)
[01:18] <Riddell> hi Czessi 
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: true, and ok
[01:19] <Czessi> Hi Riddell
[01:19] <Hobbsee> how'd you know to use kdissert?
[01:19] <Hobbsee> it also uses scons?
[01:20] <Riddell> kdissert is one of the few other programs to use scons :)
[01:20] <Hobbsee> right
[01:20] <mornfall> eww scons :-)
[01:21] <Hobbsee> so you mean, not only did it look like it needs some form of library packaged, it uses some warped system called scons as well????
=== Hobbsee is slowly going insane here
[01:21] <Hobbsee> no wonder i had trouble - sheesh!
[01:21] <Riddell> sorry!  I thought this would be a simple package
[01:21] <Hobbsee> hehe no problems
[01:21] <Hobbsee> as long as someone's here to help pick up the pieces when it all screws up :)
[01:22] <mornfall> when it breaks, you ought to keep both pieces
[01:23] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:23] <Hobbsee> breaking into only 2 bits?  you're optimistic!
[01:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: do you think you could send me the kdissert file that you modified to work, so then i can compare it to the normal kdissert debian/rules file, etc?
[01:29] <Riddell> I just removed the parts the mentioned the .xpm files
[01:29] <Hobbsee> *nods*
[01:29] <Riddell> kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/rules
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[01:30] <Hobbsee> thanks :)
[01:30] <Hobbsee> so that's all it needed, rather than some crazy long thing that dh_make made?
[01:31] <Riddell> it uses cdbs so hides a lot of the debhelper stuff in the two includes at the top
[01:31] <Riddell> dh_make template doesn't use cdbs and gives you the full thing (which is important to learn)
[01:31] <Hobbsee> yep
[01:31] <Hobbsee> true - i'm sure i will learn it at some point
[01:40] <Hobbsee> wish i could build 2 things at once - i'd really like to actually *see* asciiquarium build, without errors
[01:41] <Riddell> you could just build it locally, not in a chroot or pbuilder or whatever
[01:42] <Riddell> just run debuild
[01:43] <Hobbsee> true
[01:43] <Hobbsee> but my poor little machine might die if i did that, while building an office suite
[01:43] <Hobbsee> what's the policy for getting it into dapper, or am i too late for that?
[01:46] <Riddell> new packages in dapper are fine
[01:46] <Hobbsee> ok :)
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=== Hobbsee considers moving the laptop out of the room so she can sleep
[02:14] <Hobbsee> maybe i'll just sleep with it here
[02:15] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: eh?
[02:15] <jpatrick> ;)
[02:15] <jpatrick> Riddell: new kalzium-simulations package uploaded
[02:15] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: my laptop, building koffice, is in my bedroom, and it's past midnight
[02:16] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: "sleep with it" <- I'm sorry
=== Hobbsee thwacks jpatrick!
[02:16] <jpatrick> ouchy
[02:16] <Hobbsee> you have one dirty mind...i thought that ended when i left work today!!!
[02:18] <jpatrick> I said I was sorry
[02:19] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: apology accepted :)
[02:19] <Hobbsee> i just thought it was funny, too
[02:20] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I'm love someone, but in my case is given not recieved
[02:20] <Hobbsee> :(
[02:20] <Hobbsee> poor jpatrick 
[02:21] <jpatrick> been like that for 4 months
[02:23] <jpatrick> now what did I do wrong? :: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/538336
[02:27] <\sh> jpatrick: you should use the .dsc file instead of the .changes file for the call with pbuilder
[02:27] <jpatrick> \sh: arg!
[02:28] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1655
[02:29] <\sh> jpatrick: and find a new love :) 
[02:29] <jpatrick> \sh: I've tried that.....
[02:29] <\sh> jpatrick: and stay alone :) it's much easier
=== jpatrick crosses his name off the CommunityCouncilAgenda
[02:32] <\sh> why?
[02:32] <jpatrick> I'm not going to be able to be there
[02:32] <\sh> then mark your name "considered next time, because I can't attend the upcoming meeting"
[02:33] <jpatrick> I've missed two meetings so far
[02:35] <Hobbsee> night all...
[02:35] <\sh> sleep well Hobbsee 
[02:35] <Hobbsee> will do
[02:35] <jpatrick> night
[02:35] <Hobbsee> with the machine buzzing all night :)
=== Hobbsee glares and laughs at jpatrick 
[02:36] <jpatrick> ?
=== Riddell gets knetworkmanager working
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[02:36] <jpatrick> wb nlindblad 
[02:37] <Riddell> anyone had problems with gtk-qt-engine?
[02:37] <nlindblad> thanks
[02:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, a few, with the settings not sticking
[02:38] <Riddell> hmm, not heard of that
[02:39] <luka> Riddell: do you need testers for knetworkmanager? ;-)
[02:39] <jpatrick> Riddell: someone had problems yesterday
[02:39] <Hobbsee> ie, change settings, hit apply, close SS, open fx, no change, repeat till it works
[02:39] <Riddell> luka: no, it needs a cvs version of networkmanager and that won't get into ubuntu so looks like no knetworkmanager for dapper
[02:40] <luka> Riddell: not even universe?
[02:40] <Riddell> Hobbsee: but it does work eventually?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep
[02:40] <Riddell> luka: no can do if the network manager isn't new enough
[02:40] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could be gconftool-2 being it's usualy self
[02:41] <Riddell> i.e. taking 10 minutes to update anything
[02:41] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:41] <Hobbsee> no idea - i might test more in the morning
[02:41] <Hobbsee> well, later in the morning
[02:43] <Hobbsee> seeing as it's almost 1, and mum will be very peeved to still find me up
[02:43] <Riddell> bah, parents :)
[02:43] <Riddell> they don't know what's good for you
[02:43] <Hobbsee> exactly
=== Hobbsee is a night owl, not a morning person
[02:44] <Hobbsee> they didnt even understand the concept of getting the debuild going, so that it could run while i did other things...
[02:44] <Hobbsee> silly paretns...
[02:44] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I know what yo mean
[02:44] <Hobbsee> it sucks!
[02:44] <Hobbsee> :P nigth all...
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[03:22] <Tonio_> hi all :)
[03:23] <Riddell> hi Tonio_ 
=== Tonio_ has just replaced 2 win 2003 servers by ubuntu in his company ;)
[03:24] <Riddell> woo
[03:24] <Riddell> not kubuntu?
[03:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: ubuntu server
[03:25] <Tonio_> I don't want both kde or gnome on the server side....
[03:26] <Tonio_> actually, I will eventually install a very light DM like icewm, or maybe nothing...
[03:26] <Tonio_> proxy + reverse proxy + vpn server + print server + smtp/antispam/antivirus
[03:26] <Tonio_> all of that is now linux based ;)
[03:27] <Tonio_> I'm looking for a good groupware replacement for exchange, but I don't find something very convenient...
[03:27] <Riddell> we should make a kubuntu server
[03:27] <Riddell> wouldn't be hard to do
[03:27] <Riddell> cp ubuntu-server.iso kubuntu-server.iso
[03:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: is it very necessary ?
[03:27] <Riddell> not in the slightest :)
[03:27] <Tonio_> you can install a naked server distribution and then kde if you want it
[03:27] <Riddell> but got to keep up with the neighbours
[03:28] <Tonio_> I personnaly don't like servers with DM installed.....
[03:28] <Tonio_> the more features installed, the more security holes you have ;)
[03:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: the idea is to build an architecture that we could you for example for our clients, and then including ubuntu in comercial propositions :)
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[04:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[04:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: pong
[04:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was thinking about knemo
[04:33] <Tonio_> it is very efficient, but requires a few config
[04:33] <Riddell> yes
[04:33] <Tonio_> couldn't it become installed by default with kubuntu-desktop and config by kubuntu-default-settings ?
[04:34] <Riddell> possibly, if it has sane default setup and doesn't get in the way
[04:34] <Tonio_> it can be configured to be valid on about all computers transparently
[04:34] <Riddell> (knetworkmanager is nicer but that won't happen)
[04:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm putting a config file in kubuntu-default-settings to let you see and then we may discuss that ;)
[04:35] <Riddell> sure
[04:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: knetworkmanager is planeed for dapper+1 no ?
[04:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: did you ever find out why the bookmarks manager appears on restored konqueror?
[04:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I saw that
[04:35] <Riddell> planned for whenever we get a network manager that's compatible with it (== CVS only just now)
[04:36] <Tonio_> apparently is happens if you set that up on machines where konq config has already been done....
[04:36] <Tonio_> on a fresh installation I never saww that problem
[04:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm searching a way to get it really hidden.... that can be (I think) done with konquerorrc file
[04:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's on my list for the kde config I'm working on
[04:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning knetworkmanager, there is something call netswitch that does about the same job....
[04:38] <Tonio_> the kde frontend may be ready before dapper
[04:38] <Tonio_> could be an alternative waiting for knetworkmanager
[04:39] <Tonio_> I tested it and it works nicely with the shell and gnome frontend, very nice application
[04:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://netswitch.tuxfamily.org/en/index.html
[04:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: kubuntu is on the supported list
[04:40] <Riddell> nice thing about knetworkmanager is it's just a frontend, someone else can deal with the management stuff :)
[04:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think netswitch does the same
[04:41] <Tonio_> there is a real backend working behind
[04:41] <Riddell> yeah, but if I upload it it's my responsibility :)
[04:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I konw that ;)
[04:42] <Tonio_> s/konw/know
[04:43] <Tonio_> the problem is that it may conflict with networkmanager..... so adding it may be problematic
[04:44] <Riddell> yeah, that's one of the problems Keybuk is having the networkmanager  and ifup/ifdown
[04:45] <Tonio_> is networkmanager installation planned by default with dapper ?
[04:45] <Tonio_> if it is not, maybe netswitch could be installed with kubuntu-desktop
[04:46] <Tonio_> I'm sure we could find many motus ready to help you testing everything before integration
[04:46] <Tonio_> I would, and raphink certainly too
[04:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: networkmanager is still undecided I think
[04:46] <Riddell> it won't be in kubuntu anyway
[04:47] <Tonio_> that network tools missing is a pain for kde.... so not installing the one that looks the more promissing at the moment is somehow sad ;)
[04:47] <Riddell> netswitch doesn't have a KDE fronend yet according to its website
[04:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is in the work
[04:47] <Riddell> yep, but feature freeze in 3 weeks
[04:47] <Tonio_> I could contact the upstream to have an idea of a possible release date
[04:48] <Riddell> please do
[04:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: and if it is ready for "in 2 weeks", and that we spend a complete week testing everything ?
[04:48] <Tonio_> okay :)
[04:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'll believe it when I see it :)
[04:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know ^^
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[05:15] <freeflying> Riddell: ping 
[05:18] <Riddell> hi freeflying 
[05:18] <freeflying> Riddell: have u notice this bug about sudo :https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/30432
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=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
[05:46] <mornfall> http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/adept-installer-0.png -- this is how applications are born :D
[05:47] <Riddell> ooh ooh ooh
[05:47] <Riddell> and media:/ now shows hard disks
[05:48] <Riddell> mornfall: can I add that to my blog of interesting developments?
[05:49] <mornfall> Riddell: i plan to have a better prototype tonight :) but however you like
[05:49] <Riddell> that'll betoo late, going out tonight :)
[05:49] <mornfall> aha :)
[05:49] <Riddell> mornfall: apparantly the spec has been passd to mark for further review
[05:50] <mornfall> Riddell: mdz mailed me in the meantime
[05:50] <mornfall> Riddell: first 3 items ack'd, deadline on 23rd
[05:50] <Riddell> oh, excellent :)
[05:52] <mornfall> so i'm trying to get something done this weekend ;-)
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[07:30] <hunger> This new gnome stuff in ubuntu-desktop totally screws up my kde desktop.
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[08:25] <mornfall> http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/adept-installer-1.png :-)
[08:26] <seth> mm, camembert
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[08:47] <mornfall> http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/adept-installer-2.png -- using packages and sections since i don't have .desktop parser yet :-)
[08:57] <OculusAquilae> nice
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[10:51] <Mez> Riddell, ping
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[11:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: dapper ones are done - it's made a whole lot of debs
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you want them uploaded to revu, i take it?
[11:55] <Mez> Hobbsee, whatcha packaging outta curiosity
[11:55] <Hobbsee> Mez: koffice
[11:55] <Hobbsee> from riddell's site
[11:55] <Mez> ouch
[11:55] <Mez> why
[11:55] <Hobbsee> because i got asked to?
[11:56] <Hobbsee> the kword was broken before
[12:00] <Mez> lol
[12:00] <Mez> fair enough
[12:00] <Mez> thats a horrid task though
[12:00] <Mez> but then so is backporting KDE