=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@125.212.125.97] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:04] artnay: FINALLY! (yeah, code might be ugly but it works here!) http://kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-basic-03.svg [09:07] Tm_T: looks clean and sharp (the image, heven't peaked at the xml) :) [09:13] so it works, good [09:14] earlier I had problem with xml [09:14] now save as plain svg, read, modify, save as plain svg, read, modify back fixed the problem :p [09:16] cool === derek[] [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === derek[] [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === derek_ [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === omeg [n=omega@h8441190238.dsl.speedlinq.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === derek[] [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === miketech [n=miketech@dslb-084-056-218-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:35] hey guys [02:35] damn, I missed the meeting :( [02:36] I've had some serious problems with all my computers (like not getting further from BIOS) [02:36] one lost VGA signal etc. [02:36] hey artnay ! [02:36] and they are all broken at the moment [02:36] hey klepas [02:36] how was the meeting? [02:36] hey man, been a while now [02:36] i didn't know about it [02:36] just sort of was on at the right time [02:37] so did you have it? [02:37] not much happened [02:37] yea [02:37] great [02:37] well that doesn't surprise me [02:37] at least henrik was present, that's good. I've wanted to chat with him for a while now [02:38] I really need to get some new HW so that all computers would be functional [02:39] klepas: so school started, eh? [02:39] how was LCA? [02:39] no [02:39] that is monday [02:39] artnay: LCA was the most fun i've had for a very, very long time [02:39] check my blog man :) [02:39] what about andy's icon set? [02:40] do we something to play with? [02:41] *insert have* [02:42] andy is working on something as a sort of shot-off of tango [02:42] canonical will hire more graphic artists [02:42] especially one to do a set [02:42] and our influence on what goes into mainstream won't change [02:43] that doesn't mean some of our wallpapers or splashes might not make it into dapper or future releases [02:43] they just need to be very good [02:44] as for artwork in general we are encouraged to make and maintain art packages [02:44] if they are good and popular enough entire packages might be included in mainstream [02:44] that's the jist of it pretty much [02:44] oh, really? I was told that there was plans to hire experts but nothing happened with it [02:45] so dapper+1 then [02:45] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Evaluation/MetacityTheme [02:46] what's the main difference between cl2 and unity-no-red? if I recall correctly, unity does not waste that much space [02:46] but then, that goes against "the bigger the better when it comes to important functions" principle [02:47] at least I think that the current metacity theme has too big buttons [02:47] ...if you take account that X will not get configured correctly, you end up with terrible large metacity theme and low resolution :o [02:50] i'm personally fond of a brown version of tango metacity [02:50] :) [02:53] the edge is terribly large by default [02:53] yea, true [02:53] but it could be fixed :) [02:53] btw, using gnome now [02:53] on ubuntu [02:53] sorry guys, I'm using vista at the moment (friend's computer) and its windeco (aero black) is pretty damn decent [02:54] much better than xp's luna [02:54] http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/mydesktop_06-02-03.jpg [02:55] I find this better than OS X's traffic lights. maybe because this one reflects much better when cursor goes over buttons [02:55] what, klepas using G? :P [02:56] artnay: read my blog... :P [02:56] reasons are covered there [02:57] ok [02:57] so how was the change? [02:58] i'm still somewhat going through it [02:58] lots of things in gnome that really shitting me [02:58] and kubuntu annoyed me even more [02:59] gnome it is for a while [02:59] so was there any word of schedule for andrew's icon set? [03:00] hmm [03:00] hopefully kubuntu will get more (financial and dev) focus after dapper [03:02] i probably ought to properly explain what andy wants to do [03:02] basically rather than make so many icon sets, each with a different colouration and such === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.60.186] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:02] because it really is a lot of work [03:02] he wants to make a sort of generic set [03:02] I know, he explained it to me some time ago [03:02] which can be altered really quickly [03:02] ah, good [03:03] sounds reasonable [03:03] he wants to integrate it into tango [03:03] yea [03:03] that way just adapt ubuntu's palette to it and voila [03:03] he didn't inform me of any timeframe [03:03] andy is a great guy btw [03:03] so let's assume that is not for dapper [03:03] no [03:03] definitely not [03:03] damn, I'm missing words every once in a while [03:03] canonical is hiring a graphic artists from scandinavia to do it [03:04] why scandinavia? [03:04] for dapper [03:04] no idea [03:04] heh [03:04] i guess the guy just lives there that they had in mind [03:04] umh, they will have some really busy time [03:04] mark didn't hint on his name [03:04] we can still make a difference with AUC [03:04] jsgotangco: we actually should make [03:04] well i don't really care if they want the art team to not really have any major influence on mainstream art [03:04] that's a necessity if you ask me :o [03:05] more work for them [03:05] and if they or their artists bugger up not my problem [03:05] me neither, I'd just like to see some proper plans [03:05] yea [03:05] i'm going to ask Jeff to re-inforce the fact that we really don't get to decide what goes into mainstream [03:06] hmm, damn NAT. it's giving me a headache with this ssh connection [03:07] :/ === jsgotangco had a long day moving sites [03:07] hmm, I was told something really different by two canonical devs [03:08] so, yes, announce the facts and there will be misunderstandings [03:08] 2 different things? [03:08] *NO* [03:08] as I said, I'm missing words here :) [03:08] jsgotangco: you're using gnome? [03:08] 2 different things, yeah. you could sum that up to one thing, there really are no proper plans to be announced :( [03:09] yes [03:09] (i can switch to kde if you need something) [03:09] ah, goodie [03:09] nah, i've just moved to gnome [03:09] what's up? [03:09] i'm after a good gtk rss feed aggregator [03:09] wondering whether you could recommend some good ones :) [03:09] liferea is my bet [03:10] or thunderbird [03:10] im using liferea [03:10] i dislike thunderbird [03:10] haven't really used GTK apps for some time [03:10] i used to have blam but since since i found lifrea, i've stuck to it [03:13] alrighty, i'll give it a go [03:14] hey you two [03:14] my personal suggestion is we just let canonical do their stuff [03:14] and we'll fix this wiki so others who join the team aren't under the notion that they can directly get their work into mainstream [03:15] and they we can produce and manage some universe art packages [03:15] and do some work aside from that which might go into mainstream [03:16] well yes i was thinking more of cultivating community so that they'll see what we can actually do [03:17] packaging them won't be a problem [03:20] jsgotangco: i just cba fighting what canonical, mark and others think in regards to this [03:20] because it will mean distraction from what i want to work on [03:20] and senseless frustration [03:22] too bad i didnt get the chance to discuss that much art stuff with mark when i had lunch with him last thursday :/ [03:23] we discussed more about docs [03:23] hmm [03:24] i dont think art has its own repository even [03:24] but that's only secondary [03:24] I agree that wiki should be fixed [03:24] but how? henrik made some big changes but I don't follow them [03:25] there was this wiki page for wiki structure proposal (thanks to mhz for that) === jsgotangco reviews it again [03:26] for example /Artwork should be renewed (there are dupe links) but now I have no idea how to set it up [03:27] yea [03:27] and it should be /ArtWork [03:27] for CamelCase purposes [03:28] no offense but I think that the renewal of /Artwork missed the point [03:28] I think news section is essential [03:28] yep [03:28] on the main page... [03:28] i won't have time to have a look at it [03:28] damn college begins monday [03:29] and i've got to get this damn system working how i like it before then [03:29] what do you suggest on the wiki page i can help out with markup [03:29] artnay: moin [03:31] btw jsgotangco, liferea is really nice. cheers :) [03:31] well my suggestion was what I set up last time [03:33] oh goodie [03:33] I see no point in official wiki page. that one should be combined with marketing team's web button page etc. [03:33] and separate all the logos under different /*buntuArtwork pages [03:34] and you could navigate to those /*buntuArtwork pages though /Artwork [03:38] and the general feedback page is kind of useless. it *should* receive so much comments that it would be hard to navigate it [03:38] my proposal was to have a wiki page for each project. one to contain dependencies, members, current state, issues etc. [03:38] and other one for wip artwork and comments [03:39] it would be easier to track the comments that have something to do with projects one is interested of [03:39] UbuntuArtwork/KubuntuArtwork/etc? [03:40] jsgotangco: UbuntuArtwork, KubuntuArtwork, EdubuntuArtwork and XubuntuArtwork for now (in order of appereance) [03:40] but the issue was how to cover those projects that are being worked on several *buntus [03:41] mainly UbuntuArtwork and EdubuntuArtwork as they use the same GNOME software in many cases [03:42] so, we would have ended to /Artwork/UbuntuArtwork/Metacity etc. [03:43] I find the current structure much harder to navigate as it hides a lot of essential information under several pages === derek[] [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:44] I consider /ArtworkTeam/Proposals to be the most important page currently, but it's hidden and the links are without explanations [03:45] hmmm xchat is locking up on me again [03:45] mhz_dinner: [03:45] how's gnome-xchat anyways? [03:46] hideous in my opinion === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.60.186] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:47] hey, GNOME's splash [03:50] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=108761&page=4 - #1 and #33 === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:53] any comments on those? if the metacity theme will be rounded, how about using the third one on #1? #33 is a nice approach, try it :o [03:55] 33 is nice [03:55] but i doubt we have any say in the matter [03:56] umh, isn't that against CoC? ;p [03:56] I mean, of course we should have some input, but the decision would be made by canonical devs and mark [03:57] and if they don't have time for that nor hired experts, who will do that? [04:00] yea, i guess [04:00] i might have a crack at it then after i do this splash for sweep :) [04:07] how about background? === asdax [n=exxin@h138n2c1o1124.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:08] hallo everybody [04:08] hey [04:08] i think all the pixel graphics icons should be replaced with svg in the next realese [04:08] what's on your mind? [04:08] if it would be possible, it is much cooler when you can scale all icons [04:08] it's not possible in every case AFAIK [04:08] witch case not? [04:09] and SVGs are heavier than PNGs [04:09] asdax: that is up to whether the underlying technology can [04:09] but yes, I love SVGs [04:09] not the artists [04:09] :) [04:09] not when they are rederd once [04:09] :P [04:09] but like all desktop icons [04:09] for example Qt in KDE 4 will have full SVG support [04:09] becouse its very nice when one can scale them (i use big icons) [04:09] asdax: I fully agree on that [04:09] asdax: rendering a PNG icon is easier for the computer than rendering SVGs [04:10] but i had to replace alot of icons that where pixelbased becouse they looked so ugly when they where scaled [04:10] yep, and it's much easier to change colours when you don't need gimp files etc. [04:10] yes :) [04:10] asdax: but the case is that we have no clue of the next icon set [04:10] are you all active in the making of the graphics for the next realese of ubuntu? [04:10] yasis is one chance [04:10] no we're not [04:11] oki [04:11] i could contribute some svg graphics [04:11] i made my own icon for the harddrive becouse that one was pixelbased [04:11] that would be great [04:11] yep [04:11] where does the graphics developers hang around? [04:11] or who to contact about such things? [04:11] my suggestion would be to use human yasis as a base icon set and then modify it heavily [04:12] use some tango icons, some andy's icons etc. [04:12] you mean art that comes in the distro? that's contracted outside [04:12] oki [04:12] the tango icons need some changes [04:12] just use ubuntu palette in those icons and add a unified reflection to all icons [04:12] is that the one that is the default in breezer? [04:12] to match the palette [04:12] from left above, just like tango is doing [04:13] who is tango? [04:13] jsgotangco: yep, I think tango is a bit too colourful [04:14] just type "tango icon project" in your fx's address bar [04:14] that will do it :) [04:14] i have no tango command [04:15] wait, I'll give you the address [04:15] but the people in here are the onces responsible for the graphics shiped with ubuntu? [04:15] http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery [04:15] i might be off [04:15] good night folks [04:15] night klepas [04:15] its license is CC-SA 2.5 which is debian takes as a free license [04:15] have a good one [04:16] cheers [04:16] it permits everyone to change the palette etc. [04:16] yes [04:16] no, none of us here is responsible for what is being included in default installation [04:16] i want to get involved alite with that [04:16] i like to make svg graphics :) [04:17] who are working with that then? [04:17] sure, one thing would to form a team to be responsible for the icon set [04:17] umh, I don't have any idea of that :o [04:17] that's contracted outside for now (especially the wallpaper) [04:17] I don't know who did the background, who did the metacity theme etc. [04:18] jsgotangco: which parts of DE have been outsourced? [04:18] :P [04:18] artwork in ubuntu to be precise [04:18] so what are people in here doing then? [04:19] asdax, we're trying to form a team you see [04:19] aha [04:19] asdax: umh, tweaking their own DEs and having a chat with people interested in ubuntu artwork [04:19] and we've been trying to do that since breezy [04:19] what is a DE? [04:19] acronym for desktop enviroment [04:19] damn typos [04:19] oki [04:20] jsgotangco: yes, but there are a few things that have been preventing people to fully contribute on ubuntu artwork [04:20] what things? [04:21] well there's a.u.c. but its terribly tedious work for admins [04:21] the lack of information, clear goals, disorganization [04:21] oki [04:21] auc? is that on organisation? [04:22] we've been trying to get answers to our questions but haven't succeded in that [04:22] :P [04:22] no, it's http://art.ubuntu.com [04:22] seems to be very much disorganisation then ;) [04:22] AUC should be the primary web site for ubuntu artwork [04:22] silbs used to be involved but she seemed a bit busy lately [04:23] artnay, yes, me and henrik talked about moving it to moin [04:23] jsgotangco: volvo and I have sent several mails to different people without getting replies [04:23] oki [04:23] who? [04:23] jeff? [04:23] and we have even /msg'd "hey, drop me a msg when you're there" [04:23] hope the rest of the ubuntu project is better organaiset :P [04:24] asdax, define organized :) [04:24] jsgotangco: no, not jeff. I've spoken to many devs and they have instructed to contact PR people [04:24] :P [04:24] PR people? [04:24] Jane* [04:24] silber? [04:24] and W [04:24] but JaneW is a project person [04:25] volvo sent his first mail back in july [04:25] she's not involved in development at all [04:25] she'll pass whatever info/email she gets to a dev or a community member that can give an answer [04:26] ok, good to know [04:27] she's a really nice lady really [04:27] asdax: many of us have contributed a way or another. the main issue is just that we haven't organized, combined our strenghts to pick the best artwork out there [04:27] is volvo someone who use to hang around in this channel? [04:27] yes [04:27] :P [04:27] he is the artwork team leader [04:27] he's one of the original artwork people [04:27] take a look at the member list [04:27] oki [04:28] but he got into some health problems lately [04:28] does volvo use to hang around in this channel? [04:28] yep, he was in a surgery [04:28] and i haven't seen andy for quite a while [04:28] oki [04:28] /last volvo = no result [04:28] excludind what we spoke :o [04:29] dont know what excludind means :P [04:29] sorry [04:29] excluding [04:29] aha [04:30] then i think i know [04:32] what harddrive icons do you use? [04:32] i maybe should show you the one i made [04:32] windows vista :( [04:32] do you use the original? [04:32] are you running on windows vista? (is that realesed?) :P [04:32] actually I don't even have a working computer now [04:32] friend's laptop [04:32] aha [04:33] all my three computers are broken at the moment [04:33] I'm waiting for new HW [04:33] that's why I missed the meeting, damn :/ [04:33] i thought vista wasnt realesed yet, but i am not that up to date with the windows world :P [04:33] it's not [04:33] is there hardwere errors in all 3 of your computers? [04:34] it will most probably be released before dapper+1 [04:34] oki :P [04:34] has it leaked out on the internet then or how did you friend got it? [04:34] yep, one crashes even in BIOS, one doesn't send VGA signal and one doesn't even boot [04:34] MSDN subscriber [04:34] oki [04:35] did you do anything special with the computers when they got strange? [04:35] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=1600&c=3 [04:35] there's the hd icon I use [04:35] not actually, I didn't use one for a long time [04:36] oki [04:36] and one just crashed after 17 days of uptime [04:36] and since that it has kept crashing even in BIOS [04:36] does windows vista look nice or is it as ugly as xp? :p [04:36] I was pleasantly surprised by the changes (at least artwork changes :>) [04:36] aero black kicks luna's ass big time [04:36] nice screenshot, it looks alite bit mac [04:37] what windowsmanager do you use? [04:37] and this one has nice effects [04:37] KWin [04:37] oki [04:37] never heard of [04:37] it's KDE running there [04:37] aha :P [04:38] KWin is what Metacity to GNOME [04:38] oki [04:38] damn, now I'm starting to miss verbs as well :) [04:38] but you dont use everything in kde, just some parts of it that is kwin then? [04:39] KWin takes care of the windecos etc. [04:39] i gotta crash [04:39] good night [04:39] bye [04:39] and it was nice talking with you [04:40] bye bye [04:40] WM != DE [04:40] neat-o [04:41] DE is KDE with all menys and everything and WM is just for moving the windows and so on? [04:41] :P [04:41] or am i wrong? [04:41] DE includes lots of other stuff what WMs are mostly missing [04:41] like menus? [04:41] like file managers, music players, internet browser etc. [04:42] look at the wikipedia, it might explain the difference [04:42] but DEs include WMs [04:42] oki :) [04:42] but, umh, I have to get going [04:42] oki, C U [04:42] have a nice day! [04:42] I might come back later today, depends on what will happen [04:42] oki [04:42] you too, hope to see you here again [04:43] bue [05:17] bbl === omeg [n=omega@h8441190238.dsl.speedlinq.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bachler [i=rakahang@62.101.48.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bachler [i=rakahang@62.101.48.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === derek[] [n=derek@59.95.103.179] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kamstrup [n=kamstrup@0x3e42da90.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === theCore [n=alexandr@Toronto-HSE-ppp3716067.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bachler [i=rakahang@62.101.48.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bachler [i=rakahang@62.101.48.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork