[12:02] in short yes, but to be on the safe side you should ship the license with the font, not link to it, as a link can be changed without notice === bryan_ [n=bryan@wuw-ojr3gmca.dybb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bryan_ is now known as bryanf === lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hllst-66-18-197-188-cgy.nucleus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-56-30.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:30] what package provides xmlparse.h in dapper? [12:30] it's missing from expat package [12:34] something -dev [12:34] trulux: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=xmlparse.h&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=dapper&arch=i386 [12:35] the revolution is ...... [12:36] torkel: thanks, then there's a bug regarding this file. libwww brings it's own one but refers to /usr/include/xmlparse.h instead of w3-libwww/xmlparse.h [12:38] that happens sometimes [12:38] when the package author has too many drinks before running dput [12:39] kiko: dude, get back under your bridge === kiko swings club [12:40] kiko; your type has throwing axes these days [12:40] kiko is way too useless to throw an axe properly [12:40] I am a lame troll [12:40] he can throw a good strop [12:40] nickisson needs to go pay attention to the soyuz rollout and leave me alone [12:40] desrt: so, how're you dude? [12:40] Kinnison; awful [12:41] desrt: never mind, we're worse [12:41] night of the living troll [12:41] :) [12:41] been a weird week and now i find out the archive is dead [12:41] :( [12:41] it's not dead [12:41] it's just sleeping [12:41] it's actually UNDEAD [12:41] i should be sleeping. [12:41] you should? [12:42] the archives dead? [12:42] Lathiat; tried using apt lately? :) [12:42] desrt: you're saying archive.ubuntu.com is down? [12:42] im updating now happily? [12:42] Kinnison; the last term of school is a bit of a joke [12:42] so am I actually [12:42] 0% [Connecting to ca.archive.ubuntu.com (206.75.218.53)] [12:42] ... [12:42] well, maybe ca. sucks [12:42] desrt: ah, but that's ca. [12:42] archive. works fine :) [12:42] !!! blame it on canada [12:43] haha [12:43] pfah. you guys love to give canada the shaft [12:43] everyone can blame canada [12:43] it's free [12:43] yay. workage. [12:44] the clown that admins that mirror should be woken up and sent to fix it [12:44] that "clown" is me, jerkface [12:44] uh akk, big words [12:44] language! === Lathiat hides [12:44] lol [12:45] awesome. new evolution === desrt hopes against hope that the tray icon is gone [12:45] isn't calling people jerkface against the CoC? === kiko hides [12:46] clown too. [12:46] desrt: evolution just wants to be mor elike kmail, so it got a tray icon [12:46] I NEVER SIGNED [12:46] desrt: that's hopeless :) [12:46] ya well [12:46] i also never signed [12:46] -ahem- [12:46] please stop making us laugh, we have work to do [12:47] Kinnison; i aim to make you cry [12:47] is the noise disturbing the publisher? [12:47] desrt: I don't think you've yet succeeded [12:47] after all, it's ONLY TAKING UP 2388m of RSS [12:47] kiko: is that all? [12:47] well it is going up [12:47] that's 600M more than it was a while ago [12:47] yeah [12:47] gotta love the ram hog [12:47] in light of the term 'publisher' '2388m of RSS' could really mean 2 things [12:47] that is true === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:59] n8 === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j^_ [n=j@e178061050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@210-246-37-30.paradise.net.nz] has left #ubuntu-devel ["http://mpt.net.nz/"] === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj [n=robertj@66-188-77-153.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@125.212.125.97] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Firetech [n=Jocke@h78n2fls311o1100.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont returns home [01:57] just in time [02:01] hey lamont [02:01] guess what? === Amaranth waits impatienly [02:02] +t [02:02] Kinnison: you love me??? [02:03] lamont: You know I always have and always will === lamont feels touched. === Kinnison will keep his hands to himself in the future [02:03] although he fears it's not as touched as he's gonna feel.... :) [02:03] so how about them hppa binaries? [02:04] Well, they're too smelly to be in the new world order, sorry [02:04] you'll have to ask kiko to dial the bits in by hand [02:05] Kinnison: does that mean I should keep uploading, and kiko will give them the love they so desparately desire? [02:05] or should I grab my ankles? [02:05] oh, and when can I start uploading source changes again? [02:05] grab your ankles and brace for impact [02:06] we're queuing source uploads currently [02:06] ah, so ok to upload, just don't expect any binaries in the next 10 minutes, yes? [02:06] right [02:07] libaio uploaded === stub [n=stub@gb.ja.100.145.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:07] kiko: fwiw, all of the hppa uploads are signed with this key (and nothing else) [02:08] pub 1024D/3CE5C004 2005-02-01 [02:08] uid Ubuntu hppa build signer [02:08] s/and nothing else/and nothing else is signed with that key/ === StevenK tries to remember what the wiki page detailing the Soyuz stuff was. [02:14] Kinnison: so kiko is moonlighting as a librarian, then? [02:14] uhm [02:14] Kinnison, can you tell lamont you were joking, pretty please? [02:15] kiko: won't [02:16] kiko: the ideal short-term solution (albeit __WRONG__ on so many fronts) would be to allow that key to upload hppa binaries (and nothing else) [02:16] manually shoving them into the archive would be painful === Kinnison points out that currently there's no way we can permit binary uploads in that fashion [02:16] we need a db change first [02:17] lamont: easiest is for you to get us an hppa box to have locally to be a buildd [02:17] having katie live just enough to manage the hppa repository on jackass and merge it with launchpad at publish time would be my personal choice 2, although that also causes pain... [02:17] Kinnison: yes. [02:17] working on that... [02:18] if you give us a box I will help karl carry it around the datacenter [02:18] lamont: merge? how? [02:18] lamont: the world is already hard enough [02:18] Kinnison: if that happened hppa builds wouldn't hold other archs back, would it? [02:18] it wouldn't [02:19] Amaranth: the whole discussion is on how to glue hppa onto the side of launchpad's archive... [02:19] Kinnison: I have an idea... [02:19] lamont: I already don't like it [02:19] so we have soyuz schedule the hppa builds on $random_machine, and that buildder has access to the REJECT queue where all the hppa binary uploads go..... it's as simple as connecting the dots... [02:19] my aren't we the trolls tonight === lamont ducks [02:20] lamont: seriously, hppa will just have to wait [02:20] Kinnison: on a more serious note... [02:20] lamont: "connect the dots" inside the launchpad database? [02:20] not likely [02:20] no no [02:20] "build" == wget from the REJECT pile [02:20] on a more serious note.. [02:20] pardon? [02:21] I'm assuming that the hppa binary uploads get dumped in the equivalent of the katie REJECT queue, yes? [02:21] essentially, yes [02:22] if that queue were readable by some random buildd machine, it could "build" the hppa binary by fetching and verifying the sig. [02:22] but yeah, I'm gonna see how quickly I can find a box. [02:22] I don't see how it would do the build considering it'd be invoking sbuild === lamont knows of one in the london area, I just need to convince its owner that he wants to trade his A500 for a J6000. [02:22] the launchpad buildd infrastructure is much more locked down [02:23] wget-from-reject instead of sbuild - it'd have to have some custom code there... --> not gonna happen. [02:23] that wasn't a serious suggestion === Kinnison nods. You got the last three words right [02:23] NOT GONNA HAPPEN [02:23] :-) [02:23] unless you thought it was good, of course... === Lathiat grins === Kinnison rarely thinks wget is good [02:23] more seriously... === Swe3tDave [n=Administ@HSE-Toronto-ppp135112.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:24] .../ignore lamont's crazy schemes [02:24] if we assume that it's going to take a 3-4 weeks before I can get machines there... [02:24] I can't guarantee we'll have time scheduled to cope [02:24] hppa may have to fall seriously behind [02:24] if I kept an "official" repository of hppa bits, could those be merged into launchpad once the hppa machines get there? [02:25] In theory I can hand-process those in batches [02:25] it'd be a lot of work though === lamont doesn't have enough units of $BEVERAGE, he fears. [02:25] indeed not [02:25] considering I have house-move stress too [02:26] oh joy. === lamont considers pointing out how _STUPID_ that is (moving at a time like this), but decides not to. [02:27] dude, I've been trying to move for months [02:27] it's not my fault that day one of the rollout sprint I get a call saying "right, the offer is in and accepted and the solicitors instructed" [02:27] "NOT GONNA HAPPEN"???? :-) [02:27] still, awsome that things are finally moving forward --> GONNA HAPPEN === Kinnison grins [02:27] you're already london, yes? [02:28] sparc is rumoured to be due at the DC within days === marcin` [n=user@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:28] RUMORED [02:28] so I heard [02:28] Kinnison: ignoring the "fall behind" part of things for the moment... [02:29] my real question is: can I let the buildd keep building things with the expectation that they will become the actuall debs in the archive, or should I just shut the buildd down and deal with scrounging hardware? [02:30] with the assumption that those binaries may all arrive in one big fat pulse once the machines are in the DC [02:30] hrm... actually, I have one A500 (currently doing multiple-duty as w-b host and buildd and hppa/sparc build-log publishing host) [02:30] I could just have that shipped on monday [02:31] which puts us a week or so from having hardware in the DC === zakame [n=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:31] hi devs :) [02:31] lamont: Don't expect anything you build to become official debs [02:31] OK, [02:32] in that case, I'll shut down the buildds, and plan on shipping at least one A500 on monday. [02:32] Cool [02:32] one hppa box at least will get on with trying to keep up [02:32] next question... [02:32] do you think elmo would kill me if I also set him a non-remotely-manageable 2U box or 2 with that A500? [02:33] how stable are they? [02:33] they tend to just stay up [02:33] wow nice hair keybu [02:33] k [02:34] i've been trying to create my own ubuntu install cd, with language-support-fr(and its dependencies) integrated on the cd, but so far i only got a semi-automated install, how do i tell d-i to copy language-support-fr(and the rest) to the target system along with ubuntu-desktop... i mean i even tried to rebuild ubuntu-meta.. i've been working on this for 1 week now.. anyone tried this before? [02:34] lamont: He says he can deal with them, but he'd prefer A500s if at all possible. Slow machines aren't useful [02:34] I've been rebooting them some, but as it currently sits the 2 hppa buildd's are an A500 and a J7000 - I haven't walked over to touch the J7000 in at least a month or 2, since I set it up [02:34] J6000 is faster than the A500 [02:35] send them in [02:35] which is the box? [02:35] James wants to know what you're proposing to send him [02:35] the other issue is that the current "fast" hppa boxes are PA8800-based, and that has cache coherency issues, at least as of yesterday (still) That's being worked on, but precludes getting the really fast boxes shipped yet. [02:35] J6000 [02:36] I currently have 1 A500 and 2 J6000 that I can send [02:36] elmo says "that's fine by me" === Swe3tDave [n=Administ@HSE-Toronto-ppp135112.sympatico.ca] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [02:36] hrm... then there is that little issue... [02:36] ok ok [02:36] we promise not to swap them for cocaine [02:36] I'll preinstall them with something, so he can upgrade/hack around with them... [02:37] otherwise, install must be netboot, since breezy's kernel doesn't support the IDE chip that reaches the cdrom. [02:37] or external scsi cdrom. [02:37] iz a feature. === Swe3tDave [n=Administ@HSE-Toronto-ppp135112.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:38] I'll try to arrange to have one of the J6ks turn into an A500 once it gets to london, if elmo wants. [02:38] anyway, kid time. [02:38] both hppa buildd's quiescing - they'll still upload whatever they're building, but then they're done [02:39] lamont: elmo says he'll prod you on irc in a bit [02:40] Kinnison: and I'll work on getting even better boxes to trade them out for... I'm assuming y'all won't mind shipping the old bodies off to loving developers once I send you faster/better boxen. :-) === lamont will be gone for at least 2 hours [02:40] okay perhaps you should converse on email then? === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487E7EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Swe3tDave [n=Administ@HSE-Toronto-ppp135112.sympatico.ca] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Kamion_ [n=cjwatson@83-216-156-196.colinw664.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kinnison_ [n=dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:45] is there an email or similar annoucement explaining this soyuz business [03:48] yes [03:48] u-d-a [03:48] sent yesterday [03:48] jamesh [03:48] err actually [03:48] elmo === kiko is fucked [03:48] yeah, i didnt get it === tseng checks spam === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:54] kiko: on lists.u.c at least. thanks [03:54] yeah [03:54] enjoy [03:58] kiko: dude, soyuz! [03:59] yeah, you said it [03:59] the package/buildlog viewer is awesome [04:00] ah, thanks -- you shoudl thank cprov since he did that work, and mpt, because he did most of the design work [04:00] cprov++ [04:01] tseng: thx === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fitzsimmons [n=Fitzsimm@65.93.97.34] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Toadstool is now known as ToadZzZztool === cpro1 [n=cprov@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === el_toro [n=jonah@63-231-160-88.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === el_toro [n=jonah@63-231-160-88.mpls.qwest.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === psusi [n=phreak@54.161.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nnonix [n=null@t42.bkjohnson.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:19] anyone know who was playing around with squashfs-lzma? === Aegir [n=richard@d220-238-61-109.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:31] Mithrandir [05:31] ahh, cool... that's two things I need to ping him about... [05:32] squashfs-lmza + lmza (7z) for packages would be awesome [05:32] fit more stuff on the CD either way, plus smaller downloads [05:32] I've been pondering the idea of moving old email in a Maildir to a squashfs image and mounting it with unionfs so the old mail can be compressed yet still appear to be normally availible [05:33] but I've noticed that the normal squashfs only gets about 4:1 compression on my lkml Maildir [05:33] a tar.7z gets 10:1...so I thought squashfs-lzma might do better [05:34] why does it need to be tarred? shouldn't 7zip do that? [05:34] yea... I think I'm the one who started the 7z for packages thread... or maybe I just chapioned it a lot... I forget now ;) [05:34] that kind of kills one of 7zips features (being able to figure out what's in it without decompressing) [05:34] floam, 7zip's archive format does not store posix stuff like the chmod and owner [05:34] oh, lame. [05:35] I don't really care, I'm quite happy with .tar.7z [05:35] I'm after the huge compression ratio not easy directory [05:35] still be quicker if you didn't need to untar afterwards [05:35] someone should bug the 7z people [05:36] you can do the two in one step [05:37] tar cf - /dir/to/backup | 7z a -mx=9 -si backup.tar.7z [05:38] I do that with my current lkml Maildir and it goes from 100 MB to 10 MB [05:39] never had a problem with it at home but a server at work I tried using 7zip to compress the full tar backups and it crashes at random places during the compress [05:39] and gdb it seems is utterly incapable of debugging a multithreaded app [05:40] reports all kinds of insane information when it catches the segv, and sometimes the process appears to terminate without gdb knowing [05:40] very frustrating when the debugger doesn't work right [05:49] it's also very frustrating when you can't terminate a process because the kernel decided it would be a good idea to enter an uninterruptable sleep while waiting for some dirty buffers to flush === ozamosi- [n=nnnozamo@h52n1c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi- is now known as ozamosi === _maydayjay_ [n=maydayja@ip101109.101.nas.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _maydayjay_ [n=maydayja@ip101109.101.nas.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@210.213.77.206] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Den [n=Den@north-mesh-wlan-132.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@210-246-37-219.paradise.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Den [n=Den@north-mesh-wlan-132.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === ealden [n=ealden@ipdial-166-13.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seth|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-202-72-168-241.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FireRabbit [n=FireRabb@c-67-183-18-60.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lsuactiafner [n=noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p84.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:56] install disk of ubuntu 5.10 i386 doesnt have badblocks [08:57] so tell me how do i proceed to check the integrity of the disks? [08:57] badblocks is a huge oversight [08:58] mistakes like this makes me think that 1/2 of the sytem is also done half-way only [09:00] steven@liquified:~% sudo which badblocks [09:00] /sbin/badblocks [09:01] lsuactiafner: /sbin/badblocks is in e2fsprogs which is Essential: yes [09:01] on the install cd [09:01] when it loads the install system up. [09:01] You'd like to run badblocks in the installer? [09:01] yes [09:02] why would i want to install a whole system on a broken system? [09:02] I thought there was an option to do that.... [09:02] last night i spent 3hrs to get the system configured [09:02] to wake up to a currupted disk [09:02] so now i would like to check my disk before i install it [09:03] My only suggestion is the Live CD, which ought to give you badblocks. [09:03] StevenK : even if there was an option i ran mkfs.ext3 -cc and badblocks was missing. tried which badblocks and it wasnt there. [09:03] However, if your filesystem corrupted overnight, I'd suggest a new disk first. [09:04] this pc is for entertainment, needs to load 5G from the 80G and everything else will be on the network [09:04] but the disk will be a pain [09:04] am using slackware 10.1 now to check the system [09:04] but thats hardly the way to do it, doesnt inspire confidence [09:05] I'd also suggest you file a bug, which means that it may get fixed for Dapper. [09:05] i hate bugzilla but someone should file a bug report to make sure badblocks will be included in the installer. [09:05] i can hack my way thorugh this problem but most ppl that ubuntu cater for cant [09:05] Ubuntu doesn't use Bugzilla anymore. [09:06] yay [09:06] lsuactiafner: By that reasoning, most people Ubuntu caters for won't know badblocks exists. [09:06] I actually haven't needed to run badblocks for quite a while. It's usually easy to replace the disk. [09:09] s/easy/easier/ [09:09] Damn mplayer distracting me from typos. [09:11] lol [09:13] zakame: I got a new amd64 last night, so I'm setting up the ia32 chroot so I can actually wish flesh-toned videos. [09:13] s/wish/watch/ [09:13] StevenK: w00t! I so wish I have an amd64 :P === StevenK takes a photo. === zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:18] zakame: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/img_0920.jpg === zakame checks [09:20] StevenK : you only need a --enable-static compile with cpu-runtime detection and compile as 32bit code and you can use it to run wmv codecs [09:20] ubuntu 64bit cant compile it but i used gentoo and slackware systems for my 32bit binary [09:21] Hrm. A large binary or a 332Mb chroot. [09:22] 8mb binary [09:22] lsuactiafner: Could I, uh, borrow that? [09:22] StevenK: beauty === mpt [n=mpt@210-246-37-219.paradise.net.nz] has left #ubuntu-devel ["http://mpt.net.nz/"] [09:33] StevenK : its not the latest cvs [09:33] and wmv only works in my console [09:34] and it takes around 30m for me to upload it [09:34] still want it? === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-141-88.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:02] world: hello === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:12] good morning pitti === dholbach [n=daniel@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [n=doko@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-202-72-168-241.wa.westnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Don't] [10:28] lsuactiafner: we don't include badblocks because it's redundant [10:28] lsuactiafner: parted already provides that functionality via its check command [10:28] lsuactiafner: which the installer runs automatically [10:29] /* Checks for physical disk errors. FIXME: use ped_device_check() [10:29] [...] [10:29] ped_geometry_check (PedGeometry* geom, void* buffer, PedSector buffer_size, [10:29] [...] [10:29] ped_timer_set_state_name (timer, _("checking for bad blocks")); [10:33] ooh [10:35] pitti: Depends: ssl-cert (>= 1.0-11ubuntu1) [10:35] rsa_cert_file=/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem [10:35] rsa_private_key_file=/etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:42] amd64 testers, do we need any? === trulux [n=lorenzo@unaffiliated/trulux] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] rob: In a development distribution, testers are always needed. =) [10:45] jbailey, where should I point people? [10:45] someone just asked me [10:45] spare amd64s wouldn't go amiss either :) [10:45] rob: I usually ask people what they're interested in. [10:46] It's easier to have fun when it's something thats.. mm fun. [10:46] Too early in the morning to come up with adjectives. =) [10:46] rob: the Flight CDs are a good start (subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce) as those can be downloaded and installed like any other ... then upgrade daily and file bugs when the magic smoke escapes === VoX [n=vox@c211-28-44-168.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:47] anyone looking for an amd64 tester for dapper? [10:48] :) [10:48] VoX: we need as many testers of all creeds as possible [10:50] Keybuk rob: the Flight CDs are a good start (subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce) as those can be downloaded and installed like any other ... then upgrade daily and file bugs when the magic smoke escapes === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:50] VoX, ^ [10:51] rob, is it possible to just dist-upgrade to dapper, or am i looking at a complete re-install? [10:51] VoX: sure, just dist-upgrade [10:51] no, you can dist-upgrade === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.187.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:51] installation tests are also welcome, but just to a spare partition or whatever if you like [10:51] you can test the dist-upgrade tool === ealden [n=ealden@ipdial-189-103.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:54] hmm [11:02] what's the likelyhood that a dist-upgrade from breezy to dapper is going to break lots of things? i understand that there's no garuntees, but.. :) [11:02] mvo: ^ that shouldn't be so bumpy any more, right? [11:02] please file bugs if anything breaks :) [11:02] VoX: we recently got a large number of reports from the dist-upgrade tool and fixed lots of issues [11:02] http://launchpad.net/malone will know about known breakages [11:05] hmmm === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:06] VoX: what pitti said :) currently it works pretty well, but quite a few packages give us trouble during the upgrade (file-overwrite errors, postinst failures etc) [11:07] VoX: if you don't mind cleanup up afterward with apt-get install -f etc, then you can give it a try [11:08] ah i dont mind as such, i'm just concerned about loss of data i guess [11:09] just back up [11:10] onto dvds or the like, I do mine onto an xbox [11:11] VoX: a dist-upgrade should never wreck /home, it can just trash your system so that you might need to reinstall [11:12] mmm [11:12] put /home onto its own partition [11:12] rob: i kinda cant at the moment [11:12] oh [11:12] all my drives are at atleast 90% capactity [11:13] yeah, thats why my xbox comes in handy [11:13] its got a 250Gb hd in it [11:14] my /home has survived several reinstalls, its quite handy to have it on its own partition [11:14] i need to spend a few days burning a few spindles of dvds [11:14] yeah [11:14] i should do that === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [11:16] VoX: if you dist-upgrade, please remove firefox-dev first, it's known to not upgrade cleanly curretnly (it's being worked on currently) [11:18] mvo: good morning [11:18] mvo: i dont use ff, so it shouldnt be an issue :) === doko_ [n=doko@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:19] hello zyga [11:19] VoX: :) [11:20] hey zyga, how's it going? [11:20] Keybuk: l-wlan-ng with the rmdir uploaded [11:20] doko: python-soappy and vim both have problems === \sh [n=shermann@ubuntu/member/backslash-sh] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:20] python-soappy has a file conflict, vim depends on a universe package [11:20] pitti: fine, I need to finish that last patch and send it to you finally :-) [11:21] yay === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:21] zyga: anything new from the cmd-not-found stuff :) ? [11:22] mvo: not yet, sorry :/ === OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D0AF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:22] zyga: no problem :) === olemke [n=olemke@p5489451C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:23] mvo: I've opened up an old project of mine... gadu-gadu.suxx.pl :-) [11:24] zyga: you should get a new domain ;) [11:24] zyga: ah, I remember this one [11:24] mvo: yes i know ... :/ === dholbach [n=daniel@82.109.136.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:30] <\sh> zyga: what's wrong with gadu-gadu, despite the fact, that it is a IM system local to poland or for polish people? [11:30] \sh: ah many many things [11:30] \sh: it's not XMPP ;) [11:30] \sh: to outline the key facts [11:30] \sh: it's based on internet explorer to RUN :-) [11:31] \sh: it has tons of problems, crashes, hangs, eats CPU [11:31] <\sh> zyga: hmmm...tell your friendly jabber server admin to install a gadu-gadu transport :) [11:31] <\sh> Treenaks: lol yes :) [11:31] \sh: there are lots of those but many people coming to ubuntu and linux in general want a 'gadu gadu client' [11:31] I don't want to start with jabber all the time :) [11:32] zyga: there's 'gaim' and 'ekg', according to apt-cache search :) [11:32] oh and tleenx2 [11:32] \sh: oh and it also displays animated flash (with sound) ads on any dialog (including configuration and chat) [11:32] <\sh> zyga: well, it's the best way to force jabber into the heads of people :) [11:32] zyga: wow, and I thought this country's MSN Messenger addiction was bad [11:32] Treenaks: gaim has very poor gg support due to libgg being written in polish and having some incompatibilities (license?) [11:33] Treenaks: tlen is another protocol [11:33] Treenaks: ekg is command line and no longer developed, there is unpackaged ekg2 though [11:33] Treenaks: also... all of those clients are OVERCOMPLICATED [11:33] each aims at multiprotocol support [11:33] jabber, irc and a bunch of others [11:34] most C/C++ based clients just crash regularly [11:34] the only exception thus far is egk familiy [11:34] zyga: get people to migrate to jabber then ;) [11:34] but they don't plan to support UTF-8 any time soon and are console based [11:34] Treenaks: impossible [11:34] Treenaks: everyone < 20 in this country has a gg account [11:34] Treenaks: I tried to convert my friends but jabber was too complex for each one of them [11:35] so ... as simple pygtk gg client that looks similar to the original and does not crash is a perfect solution === lsuactiafner [n=noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p84.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [11:37] today the core runs on os X, win xp (didn't try anything else) and obviously any linux [11:37] after the core I plan to add pygtk gui and release for my friends to test :) [11:37] jabber complex? [11:38] all you need is something that looks like an email address, and \sh ;) [11:38] Treenaks: yes, the concept of multiple protocols, transports... really not for most of my non-tech friends :/ [11:38] zyga: you don't want to explain that ;) [11:38] zyga: you just tell them 'use google talk' [11:38] zyga: no multi-protocol mess [11:38] Treenaks: note all of them are windows users or windows converts that are still very uneasy [11:38] Treenaks: no :-) [11:38] Treenaks: the KEY feature is gg compatibility [11:38] oh [11:39] Treenaks: no-one wants anything but to talk with their gg friends [11:39] then you'll probably need to hack gaim/libgg [11:39] Treenaks: libgg is written in C and I hardly like the looks of that [11:39] Treenaks: gaim is again complex (devel wise) and multiprotocol === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:39]