[12:03] <Mez> it looks like it's trying to call a prob from a var - but the var is unset
[12:03] <Mez>  yay
[12:05] <Mez>  Riddell: lots of shlibdeps warnings... 
[12:06] <Mez> mez@lethargy:/scratch/cache/pbuilder/result$ ls *.deb
[12:06] <Mez> kdelibs_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_all.deb          kdelibs4-dev_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb  kdelibs-data_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[12:06] <Mez> kdelibs4c2_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb      kdelibs4-doc_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[12:06] <Mez> kdelibs4c2-dbg_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb  kdelibs-bin_3.5.1-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
[12:06] <hunger> Mez: Lucky bastard;-)
[12:06] <Mez> hunger indeed :D
[12:07] <Mez> oh, and look :D
[12:07] <Mez>  kdelibs4c2
[12:07] <Mez> :D
[12:07] <Mez> it worked
[12:07] <Riddell> rocking!
[12:07] <Mez> Riddell: kdelibs - backportable :D
[12:08] <Riddell> woo!
[12:09] <hunger> * Found tag kio/kfile/kfile.tag
[12:10] <Mez> sorry
[12:10] <hunger>  /tmp/kdelibs-3.5.1/admin/doxygen.sh: line 498: 11144 Segmentation fault      doxygen "$subdir/Doxyfile"
[12:10] <Mez> Riddell: part way there - I haventdone a full check yet
[12:16] <hunger> My hdd is too slow:-(
[12:17] <hunger> Mez: I get that --attr=language... command not found, too.
[12:20] <Hobbsee> is there any chance we can use network-admin in kde?
[12:20] <Hobbsee> building koffice for breezy in the background
[12:21] <Mez> ...?
[12:21] <Hobbsee> or...something...?  Sorry, going slightly nuts with my wireless card here...
[12:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's network-admin?
[12:22] <Hobbsee> thought it was the gnome network client
[12:22] <Hobbsee> er, network-manager
[12:22] <Mez> n-m works in kubuntu
[12:22] <Mez> lol
[12:22] <Mez> I havent tried the KDE version though
[12:22] <Hobbsee> ok
[12:22] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you can but you need to compile cvs libnl, networkmanager and knetworkmanager
[12:22] <Hobbsee> i didnt try it, didnt want to suddenly get all of gnome on my systeem
[12:23] <Hobbsee> right
[12:24] <Mez> is there a kcharmap or soemthing?
[12:25] <hunger> Riddell: Fix seems to work.
[12:25] <hunger> Riddell: Shall I mail it to you?
[12:28] <Mez> kde relies on python ?
[12:29] <sebas> If you use scons to build it, yes.
[12:29] <sebas> And we're working on some kcontrol modules in python.
[12:29] <Mez> sebas: the default insall does
[12:29] <sebas> superkaramba aswell
[12:29] <sebas> Then it's probably SK
[12:30] <Mez> ah superkaramba in kde3.5.1
[12:30] <Riddell> hunger: please do
[12:30] <Riddell> hunger: what does it do?
[12:32] <Mez> Riddell: kdelibs - Install ok
[12:32] <Riddell> Mez: excellent :)
[12:32] <Mez> now to kdebase
[12:33] <hunger> Riddell: Patch for the gnome problem is on its way to you.
[12:34] <Riddell> hunger: but what does it do?
[12:34] <hunger> Riddell: It does not change the API. I just copied some code from the menueditor or something into kdelibs/kinit to make it ignore desktop files without kde in "ShowOnlyIn" or "kde" in "NotShowIn"
[12:34] <hunger> Riddell: s/kde/KDE/.
[12:35] <hunger> Riddell: That way gnome-volume-manager.desktop and gnome-power-manager.desktop get ignored (which get installed with the current ubuntu-desktop)
[12:36] <Riddell> hunger: earlier you said you thought it already did that?
[12:36] <hunger> Riddell: Without my patch gnome windows keep popping up whenever a new HD is discovered.
[12:36] <Riddell> a new hard disk?
[12:36] <hunger> Riddell: I said that it does *not* do that at all.
[12:36] <hunger> Riddell: USB or something hotpluggable.
[12:37] <Riddell> what causes that?
[12:37] <Riddell> oh, gnome-volume-manager?
[12:37] <Riddell> ah yes, I have that running too
[12:37] <hunger> Riddell: g-volume-manager starts nautilus.
[12:37] <Riddell> yeah
[12:37] <Riddell> hunger: excellent work :)
[12:38] <hunger> Riddell: It was easy enough once you pointed me into the right direction:-)
[12:38] <hunger> Anyway: Good night.
[12:38] <Riddell> night hunger, thanks for the help
[12:39] <hunger> Riddell: I help whenever I find the time to do so. Damn job;-)
[12:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: how's the compiling?
[12:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: of koffice? *sigh*
[12:49] <Riddell> why the sigh?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> lemme pastebin...
[12:50] <Hobbsee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8138
[12:51] <Hobbsee> yet gnupg's already installed
[12:51] <Hobbsee> i suppose ~/.gnupg isnt there though
[12:51] <Riddell> Hobbsee: that's it done
[12:52] <Riddell> Hobbsee: don't worry about signing, you aren't uploading to revu or ubuntu archive
[12:52] <Hobbsee> oh, so it is :)
[12:52] <Hobbsee> i read "error" and shuddered, not really looking at it
[12:52] <Hobbsee> upload to the same place?
[12:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes please :)
[12:55] <Riddell> last packages worked well
[12:55] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> uploading....
[12:58] <Hobbsee> wow, these files are nowhere near as big as last lot...
[12:58] <Riddell> yes, koffie-doc seems to have a random number generator on its size
[12:59] <Mez> lol
[12:59] <Riddell> there's something in dapper that makes it extra big
[12:59] <Mez> Riddell: the B-Ds for kdebase pose no problem it seems
[12:59] <Mez> so... well shouldnt be too bad
[12:59] <Riddell> Mez: excellent excellent
[01:00] <Mez> if it hits a FTBFS now - then it's a major bug
[01:18] <Mez> Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/542511
[01:19] <Riddell> Mez: do you have libkdecore.so.4?
[01:21] <Mez> lemme login
[01:21] <Mez> where should it be?
[01:23] <Mez> /usr/lib/ ?
[01:24] <Mez> /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4  
[01:24] <Mez> ?
[01:25] <Riddell> yes /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4
[01:25] <Mez> taking a while to login
[01:25] <Mez> big tar.gz
[01:29] <Mez> Riddell: no
[01:29] <Mez> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/542523
[01:30] <Mez> I'm gonna have to recompile kdelibs again arent I
[01:31] <Riddell> Mez: should be in kdelibs4c2
[01:31] <Mez> root@lethargy:/var/cache/apt/archives# dpkg -L kdelibs4c2
[01:31] <Mez> /usr/share
[01:31] <Mez> /usr/share/doc
[01:31] <Mez> /usr/share/doc/kdelibs4c2
[01:31] <Mez> /usr/share/doc/kdelibs4c2/copyright
[01:31] <Mez> /usr/share/doc/kdelibs4c2/changelog.Debian.gz
[01:31] <Mez> hmm
[01:31] <Mez> here;s a thought
[01:31] <Mez> the script fu
[01:32] <Riddell> that's not good
[01:32] <Mez> does it still install to kdelibs4c2a dir ?
[01:32] <Mez> therefore making the kdelibs4c2 package empty
[01:33] <Mez> ah
[01:33] <Mez> kdelibs4c2a.install
[01:33] <Riddell> there should also be a kdelibs4c2.install file
[01:33] <Riddell> and debian/control should use kdelibs4c2 not kdelibs4c2a
[01:33] <Mez> nope
[01:34] <Mez> debian/control does
[01:34] <Mez> or it wouldnt have done that would it?
[01:34] <Mez> theres no kdelibs4c2.install though
[01:37] <Mez> Riddell, nope - definately no kdelibs4c2 package
[01:37] <Mez> .install *
[01:40] <Mez> Riddell, maybe the control file could fix that?
[01:40] <Mez> rules *
[01:40] <Mez> mv ;
[01:42] <Riddell> Mez: damn
[01:42] <Riddell> I'm sure I left that in
[01:43] <Riddell> just a case of cp kdelibs4c2a.install kdelibs4c2.install
[01:45] <Riddell> Mez: I'll upload a fixed one
[01:47] <jjesse> Riddell: did you ever reply to my email?
[01:48] <Riddell> jjesse: ug no, poke me tomorrow if I haven't done it by then
[01:48] <jjesse> Riddell: ok, trying to get things done, first draft is due friday :)
[01:48] <Riddell> crivvens
[01:50] <Mez> Riddell :D cool - you can set a precedent by uploading for a backports-only change
[01:50] <Mez> and then I can say - yeah see - Riddell did it - why dont you too
[01:52] <Riddell> Mez: really?  I've seen that done before
[01:53] <Riddell> this is my first soyuz upload, wonder if it'll work
[01:53] <Mez> you've seen an  upload before only to fix somethign for backporting?
[01:55] <Riddell> yeah, siretat I think changed build-deps on some kde thing
[01:56] <Riddell> Accepted kdelibs 4:3.5.1-0ubuntu3  groovy
[01:57] <Mez> ah lol
[01:57] <Mez> I didnt see that
[02:13] <jjesse> night Riddell
[02:37] <raphink> Riddell: my message to kubuntu-bugs@l.u.c was rejected
[02:37] <raphink> Riddell: do you think I have to mail to all members `manually' ?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> raphink: i'd try pinging them on irc
[02:38] <Riddell> raphink: why kubuntu-bugs?
[02:38] <raphink> Hobbsee: well if they all were there
[02:38] <Riddell> raphink: e-mail kubuntu-devekl
[02:38] <raphink> Riddell: are we subscribed to it?
[02:39] <Hobbsee> a lot of them seem to be...
[02:39] <raphink> I see only kubuntu-bugs on the LP team
[02:42] <Riddell> raphink: kubuntu-devel the mailing list?
[02:43] <Riddell> I'm subscribed to it
[02:43] <Riddell> about 100 other people are
[02:43] <raphink> yes I saw that
[02:43] <raphink> just subscribed
[02:43] <raphink> I'm gonna send to it
[02:46] <raphink> there
[02:46] <raphink> sent :)
[02:46] <Riddell> raphink: put in /topic too
[02:47] <raphink> :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> hehe - dont bother Riddell 
[02:47] <Hobbsee> sleep's overrated :P
[02:47] <jsgotangco> ohh meeting
[02:48] <raphink> :)
[02:49] <jsgotangco> that would be around 4am in my place but hey :)
[02:49] <raphink> jsgotangco: most meetings are either around 12UTC or 20UTC
[02:49] <jjesse> what meeting this time?
[02:49] <jsgotangco> 12UTC isn't a problem
[02:49] <raphink> jjesse: how do you mean?
[02:50] <raphink> jsgotangco: it is on this day, since there's already a meeting ;)
[02:50] <Hobbsee> 12UTC's fine here too, if you wanted to change it to there
[02:50] <jjesse> is that the community council meeting you are talking about?
[02:50] <raphink> jjesse: no, Kubuntu meeting :)
[02:50] <jjesse> oh, when is that?
[02:50] <raphink> jjesse: /topic
[02:51] <raphink> jjesse: is that fine for you?
[02:51] <jjesse> should be
[02:51] <raphink> ok
[02:51] <raphink> :)
[02:53] <jsgotangco> cool
[02:53] <raphink> :)
[02:54] <jjesse> hmmm i might be a bit late to the meeting, 5pm is when  i head home from work so i'll join and eat dinner while i pay attention
[02:54] <raphink> ok
[02:55] <freeflying> jjesse: which is ur timezone
[02:55] <raphink> Hobbsee: thanks for the world clock
[02:55] <jjesse> eastern (-5 UTC)
[02:55] <Hobbsee> raphink: no problems - was wondering if anyone would like it :D
[02:55] <raphink> freeflying: that will be very early for you I'm afraid
[02:55] <Hobbsee> saves calculating it by hand
[02:55] <raphink> or very late
[02:55] <freeflying> raphink: it's will be 4:00 AM
[02:55] <raphink> Hobbsee: well for me it's just +1
[02:55] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:55] <raphink> freeflying: that's what I call very early 
[02:56] <raphink> Hobbsee: and I'm thankfully I can still add +1 in my head
[02:56] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[02:56] <freeflying> raphink: sadly , I'll be on train that day 
[02:56] <raphink> although it's too late to have me speak english properly it seems
[02:56] <raphink> freeflying: :(
[02:56] <Hobbsee> oh ok, mine's +11 for the moment
[02:57] <raphink> +11 is harder for sure
[02:57] <raphink> you have to retain 24 most of the time
[02:59] <freeflying> I'll attend the meeting of AsiaBusinessTour/Shanghai ,so shall I do something for kubuntu?
[02:59] <raphink> bring CDs, stickers, yourself, ...
[02:59] <raphink> talk about it :)
[02:59] <raphink> say only true things about it
[02:59] <raphink> but nice ones :)
[03:00] <Riddell> freeflying: cool
[03:00] <raphink> hehe
[03:00] <Riddell> freeflying: take some kubuntu CDs to give to Mark
[03:00] <freeflying> I've CD
[03:00] <freeflying> Riddell: ok
[03:00] <raphink> :)
[03:00] <jjesse> how many times are you going to go to bed Riddell?
[03:00] <Riddell> and to give to everyone else
[03:00] <Riddell> jjesse: I'm about to make my third attempt
[03:00] <Riddell> raphink: nice
[03:01] <raphink> only to people who had specific kubuntu questions :)
[03:01] <raphink> we had 3 whole boxes of Ubuntu CDs and were left with almost none
[03:01] <raphink> 400 Kubuntu CDs ??
[03:01] <freeflying> raphink: y
[03:01] <raphink> oh nice
[03:01] <raphink> I didn't have that much to give out ;)
[03:02] <Riddell> raphink: you should have said you were going to a show, I'd have sent you a box
[03:02] <raphink> sure Riddell, but I didn't know actually ;)
[03:02] <raphink> next time I'll tell you 
[03:02] <raphink> :)
[03:02] <raphink> at least I had a few ones 
[03:02] <raphink> and tonio and I were there
[03:02] <freeflying> Riddell: shall prepare something else fot the coming meeting 
[03:02] <raphink> to represent Kubuntu
[03:02] <raphink> Ubuntu was not officially there actually
[03:02] <jsgotangco> Riddell, do you still have CDs?
[03:03] <raphink> only the ubuntu-fr associatoin
[03:03] <raphink> with mostly simple ubuntu users
[03:03] <jsgotangco> freeflying, mark
[03:03] <jsgotangco> freeflying, mark's a jolly guy
[03:03] <Riddell> raphink: how was the KDE stand?
[03:03] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:03] <raphink> so it was good that tonio and I were there from time to time
[03:03] <raphink> Riddell: quite nice
[03:03] <Riddell> jsgotangco: yes, some, going fast though
[03:03] <raphink> Riddell: running mostly kubuntu, gentoo and slack
[03:03] <freeflying> jsgotangco: really ? it's nice 
[03:03] <Riddell> freeflying: sure, send me a report of what's good/bad/happening if you want me to pass it onto the meeting
[03:03] <jsgotangco> freeflying, i think he's in seoul right now, i had lunch with him last week
[03:04] <raphink> Riddell: seems most KDE devs are not very happy with kubuntu from what we heard :s
[03:04] <jsgotangco> Riddell, can you send some over (a hundred would do if possible)
[03:04] <raphink> for some reasons
[03:04] <Riddell> raphink: oh?  what did they say?
[03:04] <raphink> Riddell: that we changed things in KDE that ought not to be changed
[03:04] <Riddell> jsgotangco: you need a reason first
[03:04] <raphink> default settings
[03:04] <jsgotangco> Riddell, sure i'll send an email
[03:04] <freeflying> Riddell: sorry, you mean which meeting 
[03:05] <Riddell> any sane reason will do
[03:05] <raphink> Riddell: but the guy we talked with mostly was a slack guy
[03:05] <raphink> Riddell: so well doesn't count much ;)
[03:05] <Riddell> freeflying: kubuntu meeting, see /topic
[03:05] <Hobbsee> chat instead :P
[03:05] <raphink> haha
[03:06] <freeflying> Riddell: AsiaBusinessTour/Shanghai will be held at 2/15 ,but kubuntu-meeting is at 2/16
[03:06] <raphink> oooh I'm just seeing that my subject in the email I sent is not that good
[03:06] <raphink> I should have slept before sending it
[03:06] <raphink> lol
[03:07] <Riddell> freeflying: tell Mark etc about the issues you have with CJK and what's happening to fix them I guess
[03:07] <raphink> freeflying: couldn't you find a machine somewhere there?
[03:07] <Riddell> right, bed.  really
[03:08] <raphink> hehe
[03:08] <raphink> same here
[03:08] <raphink> bed bed bed
[03:08] <raphink> gn8 all
[03:08] <freeflying> raphink: I'll bring a ibook with me there 
[03:08] <Hobbsee> Riddell: rubbish :P
[03:08] <raphink|sleepfre> grr
[03:09] <raphink|sleep> nah
[03:09] <jsgotangco> freeflying, mark has great interest in having seamless cjk support you guys can really help on that
[03:09] <freeflying> jsgotangco: y
[03:14] <jsgotangco> because at the moment, there's big interest but little testing going on (lack of supporters)
[03:18] <freeflying> jsgotangco: u've took part in last week's meeting 
[03:37] <freeflying> Riddell: do you have the theme of wiki.kubuntu.org
[04:15] <jsgotangco> freeflying, yeah, it was fun
[04:18] <tulga> hi all. I cannot install GIF library in dapper 2. howto install it?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> i wonder if this should go into kde bugs, or kubuntu bugs in malone...
[05:48] <freeflying> Hobbsee: what happened with this package
[05:48] <Hobbsee> it crashes as soon as you hit configure on wlan0
[05:49] <Hobbsee> freeflying: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8147
[05:49] <freeflying> Hobbsee: I have not wireless card on my desktop
[05:50] <Hobbsee> i'd imagine most people dont
[05:50] <Hobbsee> but getting the latest upgrades, after i pin ndiswrapper
[05:55] <Limulus> Riddell, I just wanted to logon briefly to thank you for uploading the i386 kdeedu packages! :-)
[05:56] <Limulus> They're installing as I type ^_^
[06:47] <tulga> hi all! I cannot upgrade kde 3 to 4. lt-genshortcutents: cannot connect to X server. howto fix it?
[06:48] <Tm_T> tulga: you try to upgrade to KDE4 ?
[06:48] <tulga> Tm_T: yep. lib compiled, now installing lib
[06:48] <Tm_T> well, quite useless unless you're devel
[06:49] <Tm_T> and I didn't manage to compile it
[06:49] <tulga> I following this guide http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE3To4
[06:49] <Tm_T> and oh, there is no point at all to replace KDE 3.x with KDE5
[06:49] <Tm_T> KDE4 I mean
[06:50] <Tm_T> http://edu.kde.org/development/port2kde4.php <- damn good howto
[06:50] <Tm_T> tulga: what you will do with KDE4 stuff?
[06:51] <tulga> interesting
[06:54] <tulga> Tm_T: "cannot connect to X server" mean kde-devel user haven't X access?
[06:54] <Tm_T> hum
[06:54] <Tm_T> might be
[06:54] <tulga> where I configure account's X access?
[06:55] <Tm_T> no idea
[07:56] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: ping
[07:56] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: pong
[07:56] <Tm_T> no source package to Kopete?
[07:57] <Tm_T> we will need it soon
[07:57] <Tm_T> separate Kopete release incoming! :)
[07:57] <Hobbsee> fun
[07:57] <Tm_T> ok, have to find another wayto do test package
[07:57] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure if you'd have to stick it inside kdepim, or whatever it falls under
[07:58] <Hobbsee> especially since it's after UVF
[07:59] <Tm_T> it's part of kdenetwork
[07:59] <Hobbsee> ah, that's right
[08:00] <Tm_T> so, I did apt-get source kopete -> got kdenetwork
[08:00] <Hobbsee> yep
[08:02] <Tm_T> ok, I have sources of new kopete alpha, tell me easy way to wrap up a package =)
[08:03] <Tm_T> taking sourcee package, merging new sources and then package it, can't do in this case as I just explained ;(
[08:03] <Hobbsee> dont look at me!
[08:03] <Tm_T> uh oh
[08:03] <Tm_T> I don't, youjust happen to be in front of me ;)
[08:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:05] <Tm_T> uff, maybe I do this a hard way ;(
[08:06] <Hobbsee> you'll have to ask Riddell or someone, when they wake up
[08:06] <Tm_T> nah, I read debians guide through
[08:12] <freeflying> Tm_T: kopete is seperated from knetwork ?
[08:14] <Tm_T> freeflying: nope, just this 0.12 release is separate
[08:14] <Tm_T> freeflying: so much new stuff and we couldn't wait KDE4 ;)
[08:14] <freeflying> Tm_T: when will this be released  
[08:15] <freeflying> it's seems hard for a UVF
[08:15] <Tm_T> freeflying: well, I'm holding first alpha sources in my hand, so possibly soon
[08:15] <Tm_T> kopete is frozen
[08:15] <freeflying> Tm_T: where can I get the changelog 
[08:16] <Tm_T> freeflying: you probably can't yet, unless mattr did something in last 6 hours
[08:16] <Tm_T> freeflying: I'll investigate, wait :)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> hey, why does the version of ndiswrapper-utils in the repos seem to overwrite my supposedly newer version that i've just compiled?  i thought that the one that i compiled would overwrite anything else
[08:21] <Hobbsee> hmpf
[08:23] <Tm_T> freeflying: but in general, new chat style engine (xhtml+css instead of xlst) jabber voice + other jabber goodies, whole bunch of fixes here and there...
[08:29] <Tm_T> including my 8 (?) commits ;)
[08:29] <freeflying> Tm_T: waiting for your package 
[08:29] <freeflying> Tm_T: :)
[08:30] <Tm_T> freeflying: oh, just I know how to do it ;)
[08:30] <Tm_T> +if
[08:31] <freeflying> Tm_T: or you may package it for ourselves use only , :)
[08:32] <Tm_T> that's what it will be now
[08:33] <Tm_T> actually I don't even have permission to do package others but myself
[08:33] <Tm_T> yet
[08:33] <Tm_T> but looks like these sources are fine so waitin permission
[08:36] <Tm_T> hmh, looks like creating package is timeconsuming
[09:15] <Hobbsee> bye all
[09:32] <Tm_T> freeflying: ok, slowly understanding how this works, but dependencies are small issue now
[09:37] <Tm_T> Riddell: you know who is Kopete debian maintainer ?
[10:00] <poningru> Tm_T: I thought kde apps were group maintained
[10:00] <Tm_T> prolly is
[10:00] <poningru> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/kde/kopete.html
[10:01] <poningru> at the bottom
[10:02] <Tm_T> ah, thanks
[10:03] <Tm_T> hum, I thought I did all ok, but no, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot doesn't give any deb packages
[10:44] <hunger> Did my patch make it into the latest kdelibs?
[10:46] <jpatrick> hmm... Kubuntu meeting...
[10:46] <hunger> Where?
[10:46] <jpatrick> topic
[10:46] <hunger> That channel is dead silent right now.
[10:47] <jpatrick> hunger: It usual is unless there's a meeting...
[10:47] <hunger> jpatrick: Oh, I assumed you were trying to point me to some ongoing meeting:-)
[10:48] <jpatrick> oh right
[10:48] <jpatrick> :)
[10:52] <Tonio_> yep we discussed that yesterday, and riddel agreed on the fact that planning kubuntu mettings from time to time can be a good thing....
[10:52] <Tm_T> true
[10:52] <jpatrick> Hello Tm_T 
[10:52] <Tm_T> hullo
[10:53] <Tm_T> I do something wrong, I thought I did all ok http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide <- following this
[10:53] <Tonio_> actually riddell is developper, packager, revuer, manages the full kde desktop, and probably the onlykde guru engaged by canonical on the ubuntu project....
[10:53] <Tm_T> but no, I don't get any deb packages ;(
[10:53] <jsgotangco> there's also amu
[10:53] <Tonio_> so organizing the work to help him concentrating on the essential part of his work could be a good thing :)
[10:54] <jpatrick> Tm_T: what are you trying to package?
[10:54] <Tm_T> jpatrick: Kopete 0.12 alpha
[10:54] <Tonio_> jsgotangco: amu is working for canonical ? okay didn't knew ;)
[10:54] <jpatrick> Tm_T: tried using the debian/ dir from the repos?
[10:54] <jpatrick> oh no wait
[10:54] <Tm_T> jpatrick: no source package for kopete only
[10:54] <Tm_T> dunno why
[10:55] <jpatrick> :/
[10:55] <Tm_T> that wouldd be too easy to me =)
[10:55] <jpatrick> should come from kde-network
[10:55] <jpatrick> or something like that
[10:55] <Tm_T> yes, but separate kopete release
[10:56] <jpatrick> Tm_T: is there somewhere you can put your package?
[10:56] <Tm_T> jpatrick: kopete sources you mean?
[10:56] <jpatrick> Tonio_: I just hope I can get to the meetings
[10:57] <jpatrick> Tm_T: your .diff.gz, etc
[10:57] <Tonio_> jpatrick: not sure to be here ? damn..... lots of work ?
[10:57] <Tm_T> jpatrick: ah, remember, this is "top secret", no permission to be public in any state from mattr yet ;)
[10:57] <Tm_T> jpatrick: in a second :p
[10:57] <Tonio_> I had the same problem, it took me month to become member because of that
[10:57] <jpatrick> Tonio_: school, etc
[10:58] <Tonio_> jpatrick: k
[10:59] <Tonio_> Tm_T: got an url for kopete's changelog ?
[10:59] <jpatrick> will probably make it to the coming one tho :)
[11:00] <hunger> Riddell did not add my no-gnome-startup patch to kdelibs yet:-(
[11:00] <Tm_T> Tonio_: nope, can't find any changelogs
[11:00] <Tonio_> hehe, my ubuntu cards just arrived ;) there nice, although
[11:00] <Tm_T> Tonio_: have to ask as soon as mattr is back online
[11:01] <Tonio_> Tm_T: okay.... I can't wait for msn sound support....
[11:01] <Tm_T> hehe
[11:01] <Tm_T> Tonio_: Jabber voice support is, no msn equiv
[11:01] <Tonio_> Tm_T: so many people refusing to even have a look at linux because of that bull...t msn
[11:01] <Tm_T> Tonio_: true
[11:02] <jpatrick> Tonio_: I always prefered Jabber
[11:02] <Tonio_> Tm_T: the problemis that, dunno for the rest of the world, but here in france, people don't say IM, but "msn"....
[11:02] <jpatrick> same here...
[11:02] <Tm_T> Tonio_: unfortunately there's no Kopete devel who has time and skills to do msn plugin rockin
[11:02] <Tonio_> I do prefer habber also, and now wengophone is on the way to, but well.....
[11:03] <Tm_T> Tonio_: rewiting msn plugin is started, so maybe we have light in Kopete 1.0
[11:03] <Tonio_> it is not because something is better that people will use it.... otherwise, everything should be firewire based ;)
[11:03] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I can understand the main purpose of kopete's dev isn't to be full msn compatible, of course
[11:04] <Tm_T> aye, and people doesn't understand that they can use two protocols at the same time, "my friends use msn so I have to use it too, nothing else" ...
[11:04] <Tonio_> I hope google and a few companies will get jabber recognition for the lambda users
[11:04] <Tm_T> heh
[11:05] <Tonio_> anywa, there is no reason using 2 protocols for msn... do we use 2 proto for standard mail ? nope....
[11:05] <Tm_T> =)
[11:05] <Tm_T> I meant, you can use msn AND jabber, not just one
[11:05] <jpatrick> POP3 and IMAP
[11:05] <Tm_T> people doesn't seem to understand it
[11:05] <Tonio_> jpatrick: nope, THE protocol for communication is just smtp
[11:06] <jpatrick> oh, yeah :)
[11:06] <Tonio_> pop is just a way to download mails, but not a communication standard for the mail world
[11:07] <Tonio_> you can replace pop by imap or webmail, or ftp if you like to read mail files ;) but smtp is the base
[11:07] <Tonio_> that shouldn't have become different for instant messenging, but protocols and formats have become a world war  those 3 years
[11:07] <Tonio_> that's a pain, really
[11:07] <Tm_T> aye
[11:08] <Tonio_> imagin a world where you make a kind of fusion between mail and IM
[11:08] <Tonio_> im becoming an extention of standard mail, using a universal protocol, like jabber
[11:08] <Tm_T> oh well, I think jabber will rule the world soon, first video chat testings are coming
[11:08] <Tonio_> how easy it would be for the people..... everyone communicating with everyone....
[11:09] <Tonio_> I can't imagin have to have a yahoo.com email address to send mails to yahoo users....
[11:09] <Tm_T> iirc jingle has basis for video conference, all we need is codecs and ui
[11:09] <Tm_T> Tonio_: =)
[11:09] <Tonio_> Tm_T: codecs are already here.... h263, h264
[11:10] <Tonio_> even xvid.... I don't understand why standard video encoding codecs cannot be used for videoconferencing
[11:10] <Tonio_> is there a technical reason I missed ?
[11:10] <hunger> Tonio_: encoding takes too long.
[11:10] <Tm_T> Tonio_: oh, sure, only that they're not yet used by Kopete ;)
[11:11] <Tm_T> Tonio_: as I said,all we need is codec(s) and ui
[11:11] <Tm_T> dunno if there's something fundamental too
[11:11] <Tonio_> hunger, well with a 320x240 image and the power of actuall computers, with a 10 fps, that should be using that much resources, no ?
[11:11] <Tm_T> but iirc jingle is just frame to data stream
[11:11] <hunger> Tonio_: Streaming does not work well when it takes 3times as long to encode a image than it takes to display it.
[11:12] <Tonio_> hunger: right, as I was saying, there was certainly a reason, here is the answer ;)
[11:12] <hunger> Tonio_: A computer can do it (I think), but you can only earn money with videoconferencing if the HW needed is cheap enough.
[11:13] <Tonio_> hunger: correct
[11:13] <freeflying> anyone know remaster livecd
[11:13] <Tonio_> wengophone look actually as the best coming solution for multiplatform videoconferencing I think.... although the SVN is an horrible mess...
[11:13] <jpatrick> freeflying: LiveCDCustomization?
[11:14] <freeflying> jpatrick: y
[11:14] <Tonio_> I tried to package it, but I forgave....
[11:14] <hunger> Tonio_: A cell phone won't get a pentium-whatever class CPU soon;-)
[11:14] <Tonio_> hunger: hehe, that's true indeed, I didn't thought about those aspects.... shame on me
[11:15] <Tonio_> but if you have big resources, look at what apple does with ichat
[11:15] <hunger> Tonio_: Ran a benchmark on a 200MHz ARM chip once: It was 90times slower then a 90MHz PentiumI chip!
[11:15] <freeflying> jpatrick: Mithrandir: after remaster kubuntu's dapper livecd , kdm need be restarted manually, and then it can log into kdm 
[11:15] <Tonio_> the quality, although it uses much more resources, is totaly incredible
[11:16] <Tonio_> hunger that much ????????? wow..... I though a 200 mhz arm could be compared to a pentium 100 at least....
[11:18] <Tonio_> I may realease a personnal version of kubuntu-default-settings in about an hour to submit to Riddell .... anyone interested testing it ?
[11:19] <jpatrick> Tonio_: what are the changes?
[11:19] <Tm_T> jpatrick: 
[11:21] <Tonio_> jpatrick: fixing dpi to 100 and setting wmaller fonts, kopete and konversation settings, integration of ksvg part the same we did for the others, adding a few more usefull .desktop files, providing a cool knotes color sheme (default is a really ungly), providing a standard and working profile for knemo (for eventually having it installed by default, plus many more little things
[11:21] <jpatrick> wow
[11:21] <Tonio_> replacing that crappy ungly hand in gwenview....
[11:22] <hunger> Tonio_: Why fix the dpi?!
[11:22] <jpatrick> hello raphink 
[11:22] <raphink> hi jpatrick 
[11:22] <Tonio_> hunger: on many computers, especially laptops, that causes problems
[11:22] <raphink> jpatrick: applying for member in an hour and a half?
[11:22] <hunger> Tonio_: Why?
[11:22] <jpatrick> raphink: yes
[11:22] <raphink> :)
[11:22] <Tonio_> with the same setting than me, my girlfriend gets ridiculous small fonts, while I get big ones
[11:22] <hunger> Tonio_: My laptop got ~130dpi. Fonts are unreadable with 100dpi.
[11:23] <Tonio_> on my laptop, for example, font size is changing sometimes on reboot,....
[11:23] <Tonio_> hunger, set to 100 with a good size might/should/could be okay
[11:23] <hunger> Tonio_: Of course Riddells kdm themes need some tweeking occasionally:-)
[11:23] <freeflying> anyone help me 
[11:23] <Tonio_> hunger: well, test my package and we'll see if that causes issues...
[11:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Then the font sizes are all wrong:-)
[11:24] <Tonio_> hunger: I didn't manage to change that actually, but yes, that could be interesting adding a new kdmtheme and eventually a new background image
[11:24] <hunger> Tonio_: They are given in a real world units... they get all screewed up with a wrong dpi setting!
[11:25] <Tonio_> hunger: maye wrong, but same everywhere..... I can't imagin that linux is actually the only OS that needs the knowledge of the screen specs to configure fonts.......
[11:25] <Tonio_> osx or windows don't have that problem
[11:25] <Tonio_> hunger: I searched the net, and generally, for every fonts problem, the answer is "set dpi to 100"...
[11:26] <Tonio_> that seems to resolv 90% of the problems
[11:26] <Tonio_> but as I'm unsure, that's the reason I'm searching for testers ;)
[11:26] <hunger> Tonio_: Yeap. They have less of that pixel-based measurement crap that still sticks around in X:-(
[11:26] <hunger> If only X wasn't so 70s...
[11:27] <hunger> Tonio_: Well, fixing the dpi fixes the symptom.
[11:28] <hunger> Tonio_: The cause is mixing a real world unit of measurement with on screen units.
[11:28] <Tonio_> hunger: exactly, but doing it by default may causes a few issues, that's why it needs testing...
[11:28] <hunger> Tonio_: ?
[11:29] <Tonio_> hunger: yes ?
[11:29] <hunger> Tonio_: You are changing the real world unit to match up with what most developers assume it to be in on-screen units.
[11:29] <hunger> Tonio_: Changing the real world to match the limited one in a computer is never a good idea:-)
[11:30] <Tonio_> hunger: when 30% of the computers I tested have problems with fonts....
[11:30] <Tonio_> I think mandriva for example is forcing dpi by default.... maybe I'm wrong, but I've heard about something like that
[11:30] <hunger> Tonio_: Not with fonts! With everything else;-)
[11:31] <Tonio_> hunger I perfectly follow you on that point.... when it works well with the standards...
[11:31] <Tonio_> but browse the web with "linux problem fonts"
[11:31] <Tonio_> and anyway xorg has some bugs on that....
[11:32] <hunger> Tonio_: but breaking the one thing that works properly to match the broken state of the rest of the system is wrong.
[11:32] <Tonio_> the autoconfiguration give me different sizes from time to time
[11:32] <Tonio_> hunger: but it can be a temporary solution waiting for something working better ;)
[11:33] <hunger> Tonio_: If you need to fix the dpi, then please fix it to the proper value and not some random one.
[11:33] <Tonio_> to me the important is that it works, not that "respects the standards defined 30 yes ago"
[11:33] <Tonio_> hum......... what new users say when he has a problem with fonts ?
[11:33] <Tonio_> will he search how to change that ? does he even know what dpi is ?
[11:34] <hunger> Tonio_: Font's don't. They are already on the way to the proper solution. It is the rest that is back in stoneage.
[11:34] <hunger> Tonio_: No, but you could get the dpi on first boot and use that as a fixed value.
[11:35] <Tonio_> the problem is that with the same distro, Riddell got complained that "fonts are horribly big", or "ridiculously small"
[11:35] <Tonio_> what to do in that case ? publishing a guide to set the font size ?
[11:35] <hunger> Tonio_: Yes, that is because the dpis were set incorrectly.
[11:35] <Tonio_> hunger, the problem isn't an exception
[11:35] <hunger> Tonio_: Using a wrong setting for everybody will not help.
[11:36] <Tonio_> to my experience, it happens on about 40% of the computers I tested
[11:36] <hunger> Tonio_: Sure it does.
[11:36] <Tonio_> hunger, that can be seen as "an average"
[11:37] <hunger> Tonio_: My point is that if 40% of monitors are used with the wrong dpi setting then randomly picking one and using that should not improve the situation.
[11:37] <Tonio_> the problem is : do we want kubuntu to be limited to graphists and system ingeneers that are able to configure fonts ?
[11:38] <Tonio_> hunger: I agree that the ideal thing would be to let the people configuring it correctly, but that only a beautifull dream.........
[11:39] <hunger> Tonio_: You can get the value from the HW somehow.
[11:39] <Tonio_> can you imagin answering to a new user that come from the MS world : "contact your vendor to get the specs, and then configure X server to feet your screen" ?
[11:39] <hunger> Tonio_: No, but that is not the point:-)
[11:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: actually I believe that's how windows does it too
[11:40] <Tonio_> hi Riddell ! you mean fixing the dpi ?
[11:40] <hunger> Tonio_: Using 100dpi has one advantage: The fonts are properly scaled with respect to lines, boxes, etc. for most apps (since most developers seem to use 100dpi when designing stuff).
[11:41] <hunger> Tonio_: But it will not stop the fonts too big/too small issue at all.
[11:41] <Tonio_> I'm pretty sure MS does that, and that's the reason graphists have sometime pain to configure their monitor with precision
[11:41] <Tonio_> hunger, I personnaly fix fonts everywhere, and that fixed the small font issue to me and all linux users I know....
[11:41] <Riddell> I doin't know what windows does by default but I believe there's an option to set the dpi with a ruler somewhere
[11:42] <hunger> Tonio_: It breaks things on my box.
[11:42] <Riddell> hunger: have patience :)  I only got my fast compiling machine back yesterday and have had a backlog of things to compile
[11:42] <Tonio_> 20 machines doesn't mean it works everywhere of course, but even if the mothod can be discussed, the result is, to me, good
[11:42] <hunger> Tonio_: Your friends got cheapo hardware then;-)
[11:43] <hunger> Tonio_: 100dpi is close to the resolution of cheapish monitors.
[11:43] <Tonio_> hunger yup, if they didn't they would have apple hardware, and no issues, of course ;)
[11:43] <Tonio_> but here is an evidence of the need to have kubuntu meetings ;)
[11:43] <hunger> Tonio_: You get the same issue with apple hardware (when running linux on it).
[11:44] <Tonio_> to me, the solution can be tested, and if it causes any issue, of course, removed before breezy is out....
[11:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: you opinion on that point ?
[11:44] <hunger> Tonio_: I have fixed my resolution, too. But I need it fixed to ~130dpi.
[11:44] <Tonio_> s/you/your
[11:45] <hunger> Tonio_: Sure, do it. Just do not break my system;-)
[11:45] <Tonio_> hunger well, that is not good, I agree, but if you are representing 1% of the people having a very specific hardware configuration....
[11:45] <Tonio_> the standard config has to feet with the masses
[11:45] <hunger> Tonio_: 100dpi is an OKish setting for people with lowres hardware... so go for it.
[11:46] <Tonio_> I prefer 1% of people having an issue because of a setting, than 40% of users having issues with the standard.... that's my opinion ;)
[11:46] <Tonio_> but if the test isn't good, let's forget that :)
[11:46] <hunger> Tonio_: Can you do set the dpi only if they are not yet overridden?
[11:47] <Tonio_> well, to set them back simply change the kdmrc
[11:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: my opinion is to follow what gnome does since then we can just point the blame at ubuntu in general, and gnome now does the dpi from monitor thing
[11:47] <hunger> Tonio_: AAAARRRGGG!
[11:47] <Tonio_> the setting is set by a postinst script in kubuntu-default-setting
[11:47] <hunger> Why don't you do this properly by fixing it in xorg.conf?!
[11:48] <hunger> Tonio_: Then this works independent of which DM is used (and even with startx).
[11:48] <raphink> hunger: then that's an Ubuntu-wide change, not a kubuntu specific one
[11:48] <Tonio_> hunger because I don't want to impact ubuntu globally ;)
[11:48] <hunger> raphink: So what? GDM does the same thing anyway IIRC.
[11:48] <raphink> exactly
[11:49] <raphink> if GDM does the same thing, then let's bring it to TB so it can be done to the whole distro
[11:49] <raphink> ;)
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you prefer me to remove that setting from the package so ?
[11:49] <hunger> raphink: So why not do it properly in ubuntu instead of messing in different places?
[11:49] <raphink> agreed hunger, but we have no power to do that ourselves imo
[11:49] <Tonio_> the only difference is that I never saw ubuntu users complaing about fonts.....
[11:50] <Tonio_> that sounds strange, but that seem to concern kubuntu users more
[11:52] <hunger> Hmm.. actually I can't find whether gdm fixes the dpi or not.
[11:52] <Tonio_> although I agree that's not logic at all
[11:53] <Tonio_> I even saw people saying that they where back to ubuntu because they had font size change regularly for kubuntu....
[11:55] <Tonio_> raphink: pv
[11:55] <Tonio_> I answered you
[11:58] <hunger> Riddell: Could you please update kdm to use /usr/bin/X instead of the obsolete /usr/X11R6/bin/X?
[11:59] <Riddell> hunger: where do I do that?
[11:59] <hunger> Riddell: gdm reduces the audit trail (-audit 0) of the server... We might want to add that, too.
[11:59] <Riddell> ah, ServerCmd=/usr/X11R6/bin/X -br
[12:00] <Riddell> hunger: what does that do?
[12:00] <hunger> Riddell: /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc.
[12:00] <hunger> Riddell: Look for ServerCmd=
[12:01] <Tonio_> hum, interesting :)
[12:01] <hunger> Riddell: I think we should use the same as gdm (/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0).
[12:01] <Tonio_> hunger: I'd be please to add another way to do it, if that's possible, don't get me wrong ;)
[12:01] <Riddell> hunger: what is this audit thing?
[12:02] <hunger> Riddell: Sets the audit trail level(?). Let me google what that is:-=)
[12:03] <hunger> Riddell: Looks like -audit 0 stops the Xserver from producing output on stderr.
[12:04] <hunger> Riddell: -audit 1 is the default and reports rejected connection attempts.
[12:04] <hunger> Riddell: audit output is send to stderr (where nobody sees it anyway).
[12:05] <hunger> Tonio_: How were you going to set the 100dpi?
[12:06] <Tonio_> let me copy paste ;)
[12:06] <hunger> Tonio_: By adding -dpi 100 to the X server command?
[12:06] <Tonio_> bope
[12:06] <Tonio_> hunger: to serverargslocal
[12:07] <hunger> Riddell: What about -nolisten tcp? Debian uses that to stop the server from accepting connections from outside.
[12:07] <Tonio_> hunger: s/ServerArgsLocal=-nolisten tcp/ServerArgsLocal=-dpi 100 -nolisten tcp/
[12:07] <Tonio_> here is the way I do it
[12:07] <hunger> Oh, there it is;-)
[12:07] <Tonio_> yup
[12:08] <hunger> Tonio_: OK, do that. That setting is ignored anyway if the hardware can be read.
[12:08] <Tonio_> hum....... so it does the standard test, and forces only if there is a problem ? seems a good way to do so :)
[12:09] <Tonio_> I didn't knew the specifics, I'm not an expert in video setting...
[12:09] <hunger> It would be really nice if both kdm and gdm (and whatever other *dm ubuntu ships) would use one script to start X. Then you'd only need to add the options there instead of going through all those different config files.
[12:09] <hunger> Tonio_: Read the manpages :-)
[12:10] <Tonio_> hunger: true, but we can do it be ourselves....
[12:11] <hunger> By the way: Why is kdm installed in /usr/bin? The other *dms are in /usr/sbin.
[12:12] <hunger> It is not really a app a user might end up running.
[12:13] <Riddell> hunger: we will keep -nolisten tcp
[12:14] <hunger> Riddell: We definitly should.
[12:14] <freeflying_> Riddell: after remaster livecd , it need restart kdm ,and then can log into kde 
[12:14] <Riddell> freeflying_: what is the error before restarting kdm?
[12:14] <hunger> Riddell: I was suggesting to add it since I missed it in the config.
[12:15] <Riddell> Community Council Meeting in 45 mins
[12:15] <hunger> Tonio_: Wouldn't it make sense to have -dpi 100 for all Xservers set up by kdm?
[12:16] <jpatrick> Riddell: I'm here
[12:16] <hunger> Tonio_: Then it should go into ServerCmd, not ServerArgsLocal...
[12:17] <freeflying_> Riddell: nothing give from kdm 
[12:18] <hunger> Oh, LP is down again.
[12:19] <Tonio_> hunger: whern't you saying that was a crappy method ?
[12:19] <hunger> Tonio_: I am.
[12:19] <hunger> Tonio_: But if you do it, then do it properly:-)
[12:20] <Tonio_> so isn't that better if the setting only applies when the hardware is dreadable ?
[12:20] <hunger> Tonio_: -dpi 100 is a setting for the local monitor. ServerArgsLocal get applied to local sessions only.
[12:20] <Tonio_> so you say, "if you are forcing it, do it like a barbarian, everywhere" ? ^_^
[12:20] <Tonio_> okay, changing this so ;)
[12:21] <hunger> Tonio_: Yeap:-)
[12:21] <hunger> Tonio_: I gave up on the barbarian linux user crowd;-)
[12:21] <Tonio_> haha
[12:35] <allee> [11:20]  <Tonio_> jpatrick: fixing dpi to 100 and ...
[12:35] <allee> Tonio_: no, no, no.  Why?
[12:39] <Riddell> yay, my blog made distrowatch weekly :)
[12:39] <Riddell> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060206
[12:41] <jpatrick> cool
[12:43] <Tonio_> allee: why fixing it ?
[12:43] <Tonio_> because letting xorg detect that causes issues on *many* machines
[12:44] <Tonio_> and that's only a testing proposal, to see what happens ;) I never said it was the untimate solution, and I agree the method is not clean...
[12:44] <allee> Tonio_: wouldn't it be better to let xorg ask on install?
[12:44] <Tonio_> allee: well, when it works, yes, of course
[12:44] <Tonio_> but it causes problems on se many machines........
[12:45] <Tonio_> I got so many complains for the font setting issue, and I know I'm not the only one......
[12:45] <Tonio_> let worg ask on install ?
[12:45] <allee> Tonio_: well, radeoan at least seems to not detect it :(
[12:46] <Tonio_> can you imagin a lambda user in front of the question :
[12:46] <Tonio_> "would you like to force the DPI and removes xorg ability to autoconfigure fonts"
[12:46] <allee> But I prefer to set it in xorg.conf (the right place) than to hack kdmrc or whatever (the wrong place)
[12:46] <Tonio_> a standard user doesn't even know what is DPI....
[12:46] <allee> Tonio_: If it does not work hardcoding (should be done in xorg.conf
[12:47] <allee> Tonio_: standard? 
[12:47] <Tonio_> allee: agree too, but that would impact the whole ubuntu... and gnome doesn't seem to have issues on that point
[12:47] <Tonio_> allee: s/standard/newbie|lambda/
[12:48] <allee> Tonio_: oh,  do they hardcode it?  (Otherwise they must have problem too!)
[12:49] <Tonio_> allee: I don't know exactly how gdn/gnome is set..... All I know is that I very rarely saw ubutu users complaning about fonts, while it is the n1 problem reported with kubuntu
[12:49] <Tonio_> MS is forcing the dpi, according to what I know....
[12:50] <Tonio_> not good for graphists, but better for the masses apparently.... I never heard about a font issue with Windows
[12:50] <allee> Tonio_: yeah.  MS seam to use pixel for font size instead of point
[12:50] <Tonio_> allee: which gives good result I must say
[12:51] <allee> Tonio_: no. lot's of people 'complain' about tiny fonts
[12:51] <allee> and icons
[12:51] <Tonio_> font settings are generally really clean on Windows machines
[12:51] <allee> + on M$.
[12:51] <Tonio_> they find them too small ?
[12:51] <allee> Tonio_: your are joking, right? :)
[12:52] <allee> Tonio_: Almost all 'big' Dell laptop here have DPI 125 ... 133
[12:52] <Tonio_> nope, I'm not fine with windows on many points, but according to the font rendering, I like it
[12:52] <allee> Tonio_: and lot of people touch the screen with the nose
[12:52] <Riddell> hello bobuse 
[12:53] <bobuse> hi Ridell ! hi all !
[12:53] <jpatrick> hullo bobuse 
[12:54] <allee> Tonio_: You ever used a 133dpi monitor with windows?  Even ct, german computer magazin, notes the fact there fonts/icons are hardly readable in their tests
[12:54] <Tonio_> allee: yep
[12:55] <Tonio_> I had to change the font size
[12:55] <Tonio_> that's true, but that concerns a very little percentage of machines
[12:55] <Tonio_> the xorg way to proceed, is the best in theory
[12:56] <Tonio_> but the result is 40% people complaining with kubuntu... theory isn't as important than the fact to me....
[12:56] <Tonio_> maybe 1 or 2% people would get an issue with dpi forced to 100
[12:56] <allee> Tonio_: IMHO, if it this gets hardcoded then in xorg.conf.  If gnome hardcodes in somewhere else it will override it
[12:56] <Tonio_> but 1% is better than 40 ans I don't know any way to get 0%...
[12:57] <allee> Tonio_: the cheap laptops have < 100 dpi.  I'm not sure your % estimates are right
[12:57] <Tonio_> they have about 90 to 100
[12:57] <allee> Tonio_: but would also say that 100 dpi may be a good compromise (but then in xorg.conf ;)
[12:57] <Tonio_> but dpi set to 100 gives something correct on them
[12:57] <Tonio_> although it is not optimised, that's true
[12:58] <Tonio_> and concerning the hardcoding, that has to be discussed, that's the reason we want to make kubuntu meetings :)
[12:58] <Tonio_> I personnaly prefer to have a setting that doesn't touch the canonical work... but as I say, that can be discussed
[12:59] <allee> Tonio_: do you have time tonight, to help me pester daniel?
[12:59] <Tonio_> the problem is that I don't know where or even if gnome does overwrite it....
[12:59] <Tonio_> of course
[12:59] <Tonio_> allee: on that problem ? to know how they are doing ?
[01:00] <allee> Tonio_: no.  Quite some time ago I heard they use a fixed dpi.  No idea about the current status.
[01:01] <Tonio_> allee: okay, I'll be there ;)
[01:01] <allee> Tonio_: but it's a xorg problem and so gnome must have the same problem if they don't use a better hardcoded dpi
[01:01] <allee> Tonio_: thx.  back to work ...  I'll ping you tonight
[01:01] <Tonio_> I don't say they don't have it, I'm saying I very rarely saw ubuntu users complaining, while kubuntu users do most of the time....
[01:01] <Tonio_> allee: good work ;)
[01:02] <hunger> allee: I agree with you that all ubuntus should use the same setting for X.
[01:02] <Tonio_> hunger: agree too
[01:03] <allee> hunger: and even the right one (IMHO).   IMHO that's even worth a question during install (but I assume not many agree with me here)
[01:04] <hunger> allee: Going with 100dpi at least gives fonts that match up with the rest of the gui.
[01:04] <hunger> allee: I am running at 130dpi and usually have to fix up Riddell's kdm themes to work properly with that:-)
[01:05] <Tonio_> allee: hum..... if the average people had a minimum knowledge, I would be okay... but that's not the facts... people are in front of a computer like me in an airbus A380 cockpit ^_^
[01:05] <hunger> Tonio_: People are no idiots... They can answer questions like how wide and how high is your screen (in cm/in whatever).
[01:06] <jpatrick> hello Hobbsee 
[01:06] <allee> I've a a 90 dpi, 104, 125 dpi next to me and all fonts have excatly the same physikal size (yeah).  Setting then to 100 dpi would be <favorite 4 letter word here> ;)
[01:06] <Hobbsee> hi jpatrick 
[01:06] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: did you finish building KOffice? :)
[01:06] <Tonio_> hunger: hum... do you know that 45% windows computers in the world don't have any antivirus installed
[01:07] <Tonio_> hunger: and that 65% people claim they wouldn't be able to install one ?
[01:07] <hunger> Tonio_: What does that have to do with that?
[01:07] <allee> Tonio_: because they are not installed/asked by the default installation ;)
[01:07] <Tonio_> maybe yes....
[01:07] <hunger> Tonio_: That is some absolutly virtual activity. Of course most people can't do that.
[01:07] <Riddell> jpatrick: she did, it's uploading now
[01:08] <Tonio_> if there was a good and efficient script during installation, why not....
[01:08] <hunger> Tonio_: Grabbing a ruler is *NOT*.
[01:08] <jpatrick> Riddell: oh cool, now I can do my project
[01:08] <Tonio_> but what to do with inches, cm, etc ??
[01:08] <hunger> Tonio_: I guess my grandma could do that... but don't ask her to partition her HDD to install ubuntu.
[01:09] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=29331 & http://kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=29426 now GPL
[01:09] <Tonio_> hunger: as I say, with an explicit config script during installation, yes, that probably can be done
[01:09] <hunger> Tonio_: Turn the measured size into inches and devide by the screen resolution => dpi
[01:09] <jpatrick> Riddell: I have to go to lunch, can you tell them I'll be delayed?
[01:09] <jpatrick> brb
[01:09] <Riddell> awooga (although we still need that main inclusion review)
[01:09] <Riddell> jpatrick: ok
[01:09] <jpatrick> 10 mins
[01:09] <allee> Tonio_, hunger: let's try to get fixed in xorg or add an question during install or hardcode 100 dpi.  It's xorg business.  If we fail we still could hardcode it :(
[01:10] <Hobbsee> evening Riddell 
[01:10] <Riddell> afternoon Hobbsee 
[01:10] <Hobbsee> afternoon?  wow
[01:10] <Tonio_> hunger: don't expect a french can give the size in inches... ;)
[01:11] <hunger> Tonio_: We should do use proper units anyway;-)
[01:11] <Tonio_> but well, that could be possible during install with an excplicit script, I agree
[01:11] <allee> Tonio_: luckily, Language, region of the use is asked first ;)
[01:12] <Tonio_> allee: yup
[01:12] <allee> s/use/user/
[01:14] <allee> Tonio_, hunger:  We detected that your monitor is \n\t xx <local unit> \nwide and\n\n yy <local unit> height.\n Please correct the values if the detected values are wrong.
[01:15] <allee> sound easy to understand.  (With correct detected screen dimension or could also only ask for width)
[01:16] <allee> ah, work.  c'u later
[01:21] <Riddell> community council in #ubuntu-meeting by the way
[01:23] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh goody - something that will put off doing my university timetable
[01:25] <jpatrick> Riddell: I'm here
[01:26] <Riddell> jpatrick: woo
[01:27] <jpatrick> was forced to do a jiggsaw on the way back
[01:28] <Tm_T> hmm
[01:30] <Tm_T> jpatrick: ooh, looks like it building!
[01:30] <jpatrick> Tm_T: cool
[01:30] <mornfall> allee: won't width-only cause trouble with widescreen?
[01:31] <Tm_T> jpatrick: prolly prefix is wrong, but I'll fix that later version
[01:31] <Tm_T> s
[01:31] <freeflying> may i set the kde font for all users 
[01:32] <Tm_T> freeflying: you wanted test kopete 0.12 alpha?
[01:32] <freeflying> Tm_T: sure
[01:32] <Tm_T> freeflying: ok, I'll inform when I have something to share ;)
[01:32] <freeflying> Riddell: how can I configure the font in kde for all users
[01:33] <Riddell> freeflying: edit /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kdeglobals
[01:41] <mornfall> kiosktool ++ :-)
[01:44] <Riddell> jpatrick: woo!  now we still need to wait for sabdfl or mako to ack though
[01:44] <jpatrick> Riddell: cool :)
[01:44] <jpatrick> thanks for helping guys
[01:45] <Mez> Riddell: I'm sure one of them will
[01:45] <hunger> jpatrick: Congratulations!
[01:45] <Mez> actually why isnt mako there?
[01:45] <Riddell> Mez: too early in the morning I guess
[01:45] <Mez> he's on AIM
[01:45] <Riddell> Mez: msg him then :)
[01:46] <Mez> am doing so
[01:46] <jpatrick> excellent
[01:48] <hunger> Anyone seen daniels recently?
[01:48] <Riddell> saw him last week in london actually
[01:48] <Riddell> he's moving to finland
[01:49] <Riddell> he no longer works for canonical though, don't know how much development he'll do
[01:49] <hunger> Oh, good. Haven't seen him around recently, wondering whether he left ubuntu (and my bugreports) for greener pastures,
[01:49] <hunger> Hmm... So whom should I assign his bugs to?
[01:49] <Riddell> well, more snowy pastures
[01:50] <Riddell> x-swat-team
[01:50] <Tm_T> any italian here?
[01:50] <Tm_T> ok, anyway, something fun and not-so-fun: http://people.cc.jyu.fi/~juhtolv/stuff/italian/caro_italiano.jpg
[01:50] <Tm_T> and yes, there's reason why most finnish irc users doesn't like italians or polish
[01:53] <Tm_T> Riddell: well, most finnish irc users see italian or polish ircers only when they come flood, spam, or msg them
[01:53] <Tm_T> or, they conquer channel
[01:53] <Tm_T> overtake I mean
[01:53] <Riddell> I've never had any problems from italian IRC users
[01:54] <Tm_T> Riddell: me neither but some spammers
[01:54] <Tm_T> with *.it host
[01:54] <jpatrick> Riddell: wasn't there one that kept going "boaf" in #kubuntu?
[01:55] <jpatrick> I think that one was french...
[01:55] <Tm_T> heh
[01:56] <Tm_T> well, in my experience, banning *.it host is good way to prevent spam in IRCnet
[01:57] <Tm_T> I'm not saying all italian/polish ircers are bad, but most of them who end up to finnish channels
[01:57] <Tm_T> good ones doesn't care to come I think :p
[01:58] <Tm_T> tea and homebaked bread, yummy ->
[01:58] <jpatrick> hehe
[01:59] <jpatrick> how's the package coming along?
[02:00] <hunger> I wouldn't get any mails to my private address if I'd stop updating my bugreports in launchpad:-)
[02:08] <sealne> Riddell: any confirmation yet on akademy?
[02:10] <Riddell> sealne: sigh, no, the board is yet to phone the Irish dudes to actually confirm
[02:11] <sealne> they haven't even asked yet? ffs
[02:11] <Tm_T> jpatrick: "dpkg-deb: building package `kopete' in `../kopete_0.12-alpha1-1_i386.deb'."
[02:12] <Tm_T> looks like it's done
[02:12] <jpatrick> exellent excellent :)
[02:12] <Tm_T> thanks
[02:13] <Tm_T> now I'mjust waiting permission to share it =)
[02:13] <Tm_T> prolly needs tweaking and rebuild though
[02:15] <jpatrick> Riddell: could a possible agenda point for Kubuntu meeting be KDE SVN snapshot packages?
[02:16] <Riddell> sure
[02:35] <Tm_T> jpatrick: ok, now I'm rebuilding with jingle voice support
[02:35] <Tm_T> or trying to =)
[02:35] <Tm_T> yup, now configured with voice
[03:06] <Tm_T> aaand Kopete 0.12 alpha 1 installed :)
[03:07] <jpatrick> terrific
[03:07] <Tm_T> indeed
[03:08] <Tm_T> only one issue, doesn't return correct version number (haven't changed in sources yet)
[03:21] <JRe> cool a new kopete is coming out :)
[03:22] <jpatrick> JRe: I think Tm_T just packaged it
[03:22] <JRe> jpatrick: yeah I saw :)
[03:22] <Tm_T> yu
[03:23] <JRe> Tm_T: if you need a tester I am here :)
[03:23] <Tm_T> only alpha, so keep your pants up ;)
[03:23] <Tm_T> JRe: immediately I get permission ;)
[03:24] <Riddell> hunger: kdelibs patch works great, I'll upload it to kubuntu and forward to kde-core-devel
[03:25] <Tonio_> hum Riddell sorry for bugging you with this, but when you have a second to have a look at "keep" on revu :) I think JRe would kill me if I don't ping anyone to get it in dapper ^^
[03:26] <JRe> Tonio_: I think Riddell already did it but complained that there were no error messages in Keep and so I am currently implementing it
[03:26] <JRe> Tonio_: and a 0.3.0 with notifications is coming out :)
[03:27] <JRe> Tonio_: tough it's not ready now but could be released at the end of the day =)
[03:27] <Tonio_> hum, I thought it was already in.... as Riddell talked about "next upstream release" :)
[03:27] <Tonio_> and I didn't test latest version (while I should, shame on me)
[03:27] <JRe> Tonio_: :)
[03:28] <Tonio_> okay so JRe tell me when it's done, and I'll package and ping the entire world for revuing ;)
[03:28] <JRe> Tonio_: ok :)
[03:48] <Riddell> Tonio_ only just subscribed to kubuntu-devel too?
[03:48] <Riddell> how come our best developers don't know about our mailing list?
[03:50] <freeflying> Riddell: my livecd still need restart kdm before I can log into kde 
[03:51] <Riddell> freeflying: so kdm starts, you put in a password and it rejects the password until kdm is restarted?
[03:52] <freeflying> Riddell: it need not input username and passwd
[03:52] <Tonio_> yup Riddell ......... sorry ;)
[03:52] <freeflying> Riddell: after splash , it will stop
[03:52] <freeflying> Riddell: but after I restart kdm , it will auto login kdm
[03:52] <Tonio_> I'm not a biug ML user, so I didn't checked until raphink took me like a baby to subscribe
[03:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: any possibility to imagin moodin in dapper ?
[03:53] <Tonio_> if not I may take that : http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29426
[03:53] <Tonio_> and make a non moodin version
[03:54] <Tonio_> this theme is simply fabulous !
[03:54] <Riddell> freeflying: sounds like it's not a kdm problem but something else that is blocking it
[03:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: moodin is waiting for main inclusion review
[03:55] <hunger> Riddell: Looks nice... but could use some more space between the lines!
[03:55] <raphink> Riddell: there's no link to this list anywhere, and we spend more time on IRC than on MLs because it's faster to work
[03:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: good, and according to you, will it be there for dapper ? It is to know how what to add in kubuntu-default-settings eventually....
[03:55] <raphink> Riddell: when I want to fix something, I don't want to wait for answers for hours or days ;)
[03:55] <raphink> so I don't use MLs much
[03:56] <Tonio_> I'm working on it activelly, so maybe I can have a look at the kdm part also
[03:56] <freeflying> Riddell: will skim merge from debian if there will have new upstream release
[03:56] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, I certainly hope it'll be in dapper, it's been waiting review for ages
[03:56] <Riddell> freeflying: we'll marge after dapper probably
[03:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: so let's includethe moodin theme in kubuntu-default-settings no ?
[03:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: yeah, can do
[03:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: but I won't upload that yet, no point until moodin gets into main
[03:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: of course
[03:59] <freeflying> Riddell: it's seems that the maintainer in debain won't like collaborate on skim
[04:02] <Riddell> freeflying: did he say something to you?
[04:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: and about knemo, I added a standard config file in KDS package, and that works like a charm, no config required after that
[04:03] <Tonio_> so it's up to you to decide if you want it installed by default or not... the config file can eventually stay in the settings, for users who manually install it
[04:04] <freeflying> Riddell: he didn't say anthing about skim to me after skim been uploaded to univers, so it's difficult to me to work on it 
[04:06] <raphink> Riddell: while we are on default settings, many people keep a dual boot with windows and kubuntu, and get a B&W grub screen at boot. What would you think of using kubuntu-grubsplashimages ?
[04:06] <Riddell> kubuntu-grub-splashimages?
[04:06] <Riddell> raphink: do what with it?
[04:07] <Riddell> freeflying: well after dapper we'll look and see if we want to keep using the current version we have or if we want to sync with debian
[04:07] <raphink> put it by default so it's not B&W by default
[04:07] <raphink> Riddell: just a thought, maybe it needs to be tested more
[04:07] <Riddell> Tonio_: knemo, cool
[04:08] <Riddell> raphink: oh, you want kubuntu-grub-splashimages in main and part of the kubuntu CD?
[04:08] <raphink> Riddell: what would you think?
[04:08] <Riddell> not for dapper
[04:08] <raphink> ok
[04:08] <Riddell> maybe after dapper we can put it in and see what breaks
[04:08] <raphink> yep
[04:09] <raphink> so dapper will still have a default B&W boot screen ;)
[04:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: I added enought cards to feet with geek needs.... eth0, eth1, eth2, wlan0, wlan1, ra0 and ra1 are managed automatically... there shouldn't be much people out of that configuration
[04:09] <hunger> raphink: Not on my system;-)
[04:09] <raphink> I think during dapper I can try to advertise the package to people and have them try it
[04:09] <hunger> raphink: Not even breezy had that;-)
[04:09] <raphink> hunger: not on mine either, I use the packages I make ;)
[04:09] <hunger> raphink: I just drop an image into grub.
[04:09] <raphink> hunger: did you try kubuntu-grubsplashimages?
[04:10] <hunger> raphink: No need to waste time packaging stuff for that.
[04:10] <raphink> hunger: that's because you're an advanced user. I don't excpect my mom to do it
[04:10] <raphink> hunger: of course there is a need. We're not developping gentoo here, we're developping kubuntu!:
[04:10] <hunger> raphink: No. I use my own image (which happens to be a downscaled version of my normal background image.
[04:11] <raphink> I don't expect kubuntu users to know how to install grub splash images manually
[04:11] <raphink> and I don't want them to use grubconf or so
[04:11] <hunger> raphink: grubconf? vi is the tool;-)
[04:11] <raphink> hunger: not sure you're developping for the right distro ;)
[04:12] <raphink> it's great to use vi, emacs, pico and all
[04:12] <Tonio_> hunger: kubuntu is designed for home use, not geek only use....
[04:12] <raphink> but not for users
[04:12] <hunger> raphink: I am not developing here.
[04:12] <raphink> if I want a feature to be in kubuntu (not only on MY box, but available for all boxes) I HAVE to package it
[04:12] <Tonio_> and a home user doesn't know vi, and doesn't even have the idea that the bootmanager can be configured....
[04:12] <hunger> raphink: I am only using kubuntu.
[04:12] <raphink> hunger: that explains
[04:13] <Riddell> raphink: want to advocate kblogger once more? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1675
[04:13] <raphink> hunger: this channel is #kubuntu-devel, when I say I've made a package for grub splashimages
[04:13] <raphink> that doesn't mean I've done it for myself
[04:13] <Riddell> raphink: or just tell me it's fine to upload
[04:13] <raphink> Riddell: sure
[04:13] <hunger> raphink: using it and sending patches whenever I have the time to do so (and something gets on my nerves).
[04:14] <hunger> raphink: Hey, I was just pulling your leg. I never assumed you made debs for your own use.
[04:14] <raphink> Riddell: I want to run revu-report on it again, since many build-deps were removed
[04:14] <raphink> ;)
[04:15] <Riddell> raphink: where does revu-report happen?
[04:15] <raphink> Riddell: in REVU ;)
[04:15] <raphink> I'll show you Riddell 
[04:16] <raphink> Riddell: this is a tool I've developped in the last 3 days, that does most the automated things I want to run in console on a package in REVU
[04:17] <raphink> Riddell: 
[04:17] <raphink> Running revu-orig on the upstream tarball 29552-kblogger-0.4.1.tar.bz2
[04:17] <raphink> Generating md5 report in tarballs.md5
[04:18] <raphink> Extracting tar.bz2 upstream archive 29552-kblogger-0.4.1.tar.bz2 to extracted_tarballs/ ...
[04:18] <raphink> Extracting tar.gz orig archive to extracted_tarballs/ ...
[04:18] <raphink> Generating diff report in upstream_orig.diff
[04:18] <raphink> Running revu-build on the dsc file kblogger_0.4.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
[04:18] <raphink> W: /home/raphink/.pbuilderrc does not exist
[04:18] <raphink>   -> Logging to kblogger_0.4.1-0ubuntu1.buildlog
[04:18] <raphink> that's the thing is does
[04:18] <raphink> and more
[04:19] <Riddell> raphink: will the output appear on revu?
[04:19] <raphink> Riddell: yep
[04:19] <raphink> look at the REVU_report file in the file list
[04:19] <raphink> it's building right now Riddell 
[04:20] <raphink> Riddell: done
[04:20] <raphink> check the list
[04:21] <raphink> Riddell: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kblogger-0602061835/REVU_report
[04:21] <Riddell> raphink: where does it get the upstream tar from?
[04:21] <raphink> Riddell: either debian/watch if available (since yesterday's version)
[04:21] <raphink> or I get it manually with wget if there's no dbian/watch 
[04:21] <Riddell> all very clever
[04:21] <raphink> Riddell: I've been working on this set of tools for 3 days non stop lately ;)
[04:22] <raphink> one version per day :)
[04:22] <raphink> and packaged it as deb yesterday evening
[04:22] <raphink> REVU-independent now
[04:22] <raphink> so you can run it on your own machine :)
[04:25] <Riddell> so anyway, can I upload kblogger?
[04:25] <raphink> Riddell: wait a min
[04:26] <raphink> looks good to me Riddell 
[04:26] <raphink> :)
[04:26] <raphink> up it goes :)
[04:26] <Riddell> yay
[04:27] <raphink> Riddell: how do you like REVU-tools ?
[04:27] <raphink> REVU_report might have seemed a bit empty Riddell, but it can be fuller if errors happen, such as FTBFS, Debian native or so
[04:27] <raphink> they just don't appear if all is ok :)
[04:28] <Riddell> all seems very clever as I say, should be useful
[04:30] <raphink> :)
[04:30] <raphink> hope it can be
[04:45] <jpatrick> raphink: nice script :)
[04:45] <raphink> jpatrick: thanks
[04:46] <raphink> jpatrick: you can get the deb on http://revu.tauware.de/~raphink/debs if you want to test it
[04:46] <jpatrick> are those for Dapper?
[04:47] <raphink> jpatrick: REVU is running in breezy
[04:47] <raphink> but the package is made in dapper
[04:47] <raphink> it's distro independant 
[04:47] <raphink> should work fine in sarge, too
[04:47] <jpatrick> ok
[04:48] <raphink> it just requires pbuilder, lintian and linda
[04:48] <raphink> hmm and devscripts
[04:49] <raphink> jpatrick: so nothing that is not in hoary, breezy, sarge, etch or dapper
[04:49] <raphink> or sid
[04:49] <raphink> ;)
[04:49] <jpatrick> great :)
[04:49] <raphink> you can try it
[04:50] <raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/REVU-Tools there's an explanation on how to set it
[04:52] <jpatrick> only REVU admins....
[04:52] <raphink> jpatrick: look down
[04:52] <raphink> end of the page
[04:52] <raphink> ;)
[04:52] <jpatrick> ah right
[04:52] <raphink> ;)
[04:56] <raphink> jpatrick: feel free to use it and report bugs
[04:56] <raphink> jpatrick: I hvaen't added dpkg-source -x to it yet (I forgot about it since it's automatic on REVU)
[04:56] <raphink> it's a matter of 3 lintes of code but needs to be run manually so far
[04:57] <raphink> s/lintes/lines/
[04:58] <Riddell> mornfall_: is it ok to start adept-notifier by default?
[05:00] <Riddell> ** I need breezy users to test the new koffice
[05:02] <Tm_T> there might be people in !kubuntu.fi, I'll ask
[05:12] <freeflying> Riddell: would u mind review this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1677
[05:13] <jpatrick> raphink: sorry, I pushed the power off button
[05:13] <Riddell> freeflying: what's the change?
[05:14] <freeflying> Riddell: remove the dependency on im-switch
[05:16] <freeflying> Riddell: wait , i'd correct the name 
[05:19] <Riddell> kdelibs_3.5.1-0ubuntu4_source.changes ACCEPTED INTO ubuntu/dapper  that's new
[05:21] <jpatrick> :|
[05:22] <mornfall> Riddell: i'd say so, yes
[05:22] <mornfall> Riddell: just need to find a way to turn that off sensibly :)
[05:23] <mornfall> Riddell: if you tell me how to, i'll add an item to menu doing that
[05:23] <Riddell> mornfall: to which menu?
[05:23] <mornfall> Riddell: context menu of the notifier
[05:24] <Riddell> what do you need to know from me?
[05:24] <mornfall> Riddell: how you want to make it start up by default :)
[05:24] <mornfall> so i know how to turn it off from the app
[05:24] <Riddell> mornfall: probably best thing is to put a file in /usr/share/autostart
[05:25] <Riddell> which includes a condition based on a suitable rc file
[05:25] <mornfall> Riddell: maybe make a wrapper that tests some flag somewhere?
[05:25] <mornfall> aha
[05:25] <raphink> jpatrick: if you missed it
[05:25] <raphink> [16:56]  <raphink> jpatrick: feel free to use it and report bugs
[05:25] <raphink> [16:56]  <raphink> jpatrick: I hvaen't added dpkg-source -x to it yet (I forgot about it since it's automatic on REVU)
[05:25] <raphink> [16:57]  <raphink> it's a matter of 3 lintes of code but needs to be run manually so far
[05:25] <raphink> [16:57]  <raphink> s/lintes/lines/
[05:25] <jpatrick> I've got it here now :)
[05:25] <Riddell> freeflying: there's no change in dependencies in that package
[05:25] <Riddell> freeflying: also the version should be -1ubuntu1 not -2, and changelog should hvae dapper not unstable
[05:28] <freeflying> Riddell: I forgot to remove it from control  :(
[05:30] <jpatrick> Riddell, raphink : uploading new kalzium-simulations to REVU
[05:30] <raphink> wait I'll be back later
[05:31] <Tm_T> hey, what is khubd
[05:32] <freeflying> Tm_T: how about kopete now ?
[05:32] <Tm_T> freeflying: no permission yet, "boss" is at work
[05:32] <Tm_T>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[05:32] <Tm_T>  1511 root      20  -5     0    0    0 R 88.0  0.0  97:25.58 khubd
[05:32] <raphink> freeflying gn8
[05:32] <Tm_T> freeflying: good night, sleep tight
[05:32] <jpatrick> not too tight
[05:32] <Tm_T> hehe
[05:34] <Tm_T> ok, that khubd has something to do with new kopete alpha
[05:35] <jpatrick> Tm_T: ha
[05:35] <Tm_T> no idea what it is
[05:35] <Tm_T> looks like it was runned when I plugged webcam in
[05:35] <Tm_T> and messed it
[05:36] <mornfall> khubd, isn't that kernel hub daemon? :)
[05:36] <Tm_T> no idea
[05:36] <mornfall> usb thingy
[05:36] <mornfall> is your webcam usb?
[05:36] <Tm_T> yes
[05:36] <Tm_T> Riddell: what version of koffice?
[05:37] <Riddell> Tm_T: 1.4.90-0ubuntu0breezy2
[05:37] <Tm_T> so 1.5 beta?
[05:37] <jpatrick> yes
[05:37] <Tm_T> aye, ty
[05:38] <jpatrick> Riddell: is there a run-time library kalzium-simulations should depend on?
[05:38] <Tm_T> Riddell: ok, looks like I found one tester ;)
[05:38] <Riddell> jpatrick: don't believe so
[05:39] <Riddell> Tm_T: cool, same koffice repository as before
[05:39] <Tm_T> ok, I also directed him to come here,so he can tell his experiences
[05:40] <jpatrick> I'll dep on libqt4-core and libqt4-gui then..
[05:40] <Tm_T> Riddell: http://kubuntu.org/packages/koffice15beta1/ ?
[05:40] <Riddell> yes
[05:41] <jpatrick> hello nlindblad 
[05:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: thanks
[05:41] <nlindblad> hi mate
[05:42] <Tm_T> hullo
[05:42] <Tm_T> ok, now short ET session ->
[05:43] <jpatrick> ... ?
[05:49] <robotgeek> hi, this may be a noob question, but does someone know off the bat if there is something similiar to 'gnome-menus-C.ent' for kde, containing the references for kde menu entries?
[05:49] <Riddell> robotgeek: what sort of menu entries?
[05:50] <robotgeek> Riddell: in the ubuntu-docs package, it contains menu entries in a xml file /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/menus/C
[05:52] <Riddell> if we're talking about help centre menu entries...
[05:53] <robotgeek> yeah, for the help centre menus
[05:53] <robotgeek> sorry
[05:53] <Riddell> they're in /usr/share/apps/khelpcenter/plugins/kubuntu/
[05:53] <robotgeek> i've gotten 3 more people to work on it with me now, so we should finish off real quick
[05:54] <Riddell> ooh, wow
[05:54] <robotgeek> Riddell: err, no. not the desktop files. 
[05:54] <robotgeek> Riddell: do you have ubuntu-docs/ the svn of the doc team repo?
[05:54] <Riddell> yes
[05:55] <jpatrick> Mez: any word?
[05:55] <robotgeek> okay, i will assume the svn repo. /ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/menus/C
[05:57] <Riddell> robotgeek: those define entities that can be included?
[05:58] <robotgeek> Riddell: yes, it "prints out" and formats the path to launch it. 
[05:59] <Riddell> well I don't think kde can do exactly that but you can define entities
[05:59] <robotgeek> So, if i have a &konsole reference, it will say K-menu -> Utilities -> Konsole
[06:00] <robotgeek> Riddell: that i guess will be handled by the xslt, the conversion 
[06:00] <Riddell> kubuntu/libs/kde.ent seems to for example
[06:02] <robotgeek> yeah, i don't mind creating something like that for the applications i am referencing
[06:03] <jpatrick> Riddell: koffice is being kept back
[06:04] <jpatrick> everything else is downloadomg
[06:04] <robotgeek> Riddell: thanks for your help, i think i will generate those menu entries for kde
[06:04] <Riddell> jpatrick: are you doing an  apt-get upgrade?
[06:04] <jpatrick> dist-upgrade
[06:05] <Riddell> hmm, wonder why it's being kept back then
[06:05] <Riddell> jpatrick: breezy?
[06:05] <jpatrick> yes
[06:05] <Riddell> jpatrick: can you do a direct  apt-get install koffice  when your current download is done
[06:05] <jpatrick> yep :)
[06:07] <LeeJunFan> Riddell: just noticed on 3.5.1 with breezy konq seems to miss file search and open konsole here.
[06:08] <Riddell> LeeJunFan: file search?
[06:08] <LeeJunFan> Riddell: normally under tools menu with konqueror.
[06:24] <Riddell> sebas, Sime: on #kde-devel  < Niedakh> is it possible to write konqueror plugins using pykde?
[06:27] <jpatrick> Riddell: oh dear: koffice: Depends: kexi (>= 1:1.4.90-0ubuntu0breezy2) but 0.9final-0ubuntu5
[06:27] <jpatrick> is to be installed
[06:29] <Riddell> blurg
[06:29] <Riddell> oh well, I don't care they're beta packages
[06:30] <jpatrick> but those dead annoying red and blue lines are gone!!
[06:30] <Riddell> jpatrick: phew, that's the main issue
[06:32] <jpatrick> anyone know how I can fix "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtGui_debug"
[06:33] <Riddell> jpatrick: do you have that library installed?
[06:33] <jpatrick> `libqt4-debug` is installed
[06:33] <Riddell> and does it include libQtGui_debug?
[06:34] <jpatrick> don't know about that :(
[06:34] <Riddell> `ls` is your friend
[06:41] <jpatrick> found it - now which package is it in - /me goes to packages.ubuntu.com
[06:42] <Riddell> dpkg -S  is your other friend
[06:42] <Riddell> packages.ubuntu.com won't know for dapper
[06:43] <jpatrick> and I'm not on Dapper
[06:43] <Riddell> ah
[06:43] <jpatrick> it's in libqt4-debug in Breezy
[06:52] <mornfall> Riddell: how much do we want pinning?
[06:54] <Riddell> mornfall: I've never used pinning so I can't say I have much need of it
[06:55] <mornfall> who actually requested that to be part of dapper goals?
[06:55] <mornfall> because thinking of it i can imagine more useful things to do :)
[06:56] <Riddell> umm, I think you did :)
[06:56] <mornfall> surely not me?
[06:56] <mornfall> maybe some user request
[06:56] <Riddell> maybe
[06:56] <mornfall> :)
[07:01] <teprrr> shouldn't dapper generate pot file automatically?
[07:01] <Riddell> teprrr: depends on the package
[07:02] <teprrr> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1644 -- talking about raphink's comment there
[07:04] <teprrr> so hmm, how does it depend on the package, Riddell?
[07:05] <Riddell> if the admin/ directory is sufficiently up to date
[07:05] <Riddell> and if the package uses cdbs
[07:05] <Riddell> it will
[07:05] <Riddell> but you probably also need to patch admin/cvs.sh for $kdepotpath
[07:06] <teprrr> okay
[07:18] <allee> teprrr: fwiw: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/kboggle/trunk/debian/?rev=0&sc=0
[07:23] <teprrr> allee, ah.
[07:24] <teprrr> so hmm, what should I do? :)
[07:25] <allee> teprrr: don't know.  I have not compared, so if there's something worth to merge/replace
[07:30] <Mez|Work> Riddell, I prob wont be able to make that meeting
[07:30] <Mez|Work> I'll let you know on monday
[07:33] <Riddell> Mez|Work: ok
[07:33] <Riddell> let me know if there's anything you'd like brought up
[07:34] <Mez|Work> is there an agenda ?
[07:34] <Mez|Work> (and prob nothing other than backporting KDE releases)
[07:34] <allee> Mez: see topic
[07:35] <Riddell> agenda is whatever we feel like
[07:36] <Tm_T> how about konquer the world?
[07:46] <jpatrick> Tm_T: sounds hard
[07:47] <jpatrick> Riddell: could I add ksplash-engine-moodin inclusion to agenda? :)
[07:49] <Tm_T> jpatrick: so? we have new Kopete as our weapon ;)
[08:18] <Riddell> jpatrick: if there's something to discuss
[08:19] <jpatrick> getting it into main
[08:19] <jpatrick> and the artwork
[08:33] <sebas> Sime: Ping.
[08:33] <Sime> hi
[08:33] <sebas> Hi
[08:33] <sebas> I'm hacking on mountconfig, but things seem a little strange in MicroHAL
[08:34] <sebas> My DVDROM is seen as RemovableDisk (CDrom Icon), but it has major number 3. 
[08:34] <sebas> So from my interpretation of MicroHAL, it should actually be interpreted as being an IDE harddisk.
[08:36] <Sime> fhandle = open(os.path.join("/sys/block",blockdevice,"removable"))
[08:36] <Sime> it checks for removable devices.
[08:36] <sebas> Ah.
[08:36] <sebas> Ok, I see.
[08:37] <sebas> So the problem is that my DVD burner has Major number 3, and thus becomes Removable disk.
[08:37] <sebas> If it was a "real" burner (as according to MicroHAL), it should have another major.
[08:37] <sebas> Or what is "Packet writing for CD/DVD devices" actually?
[08:38] <sebas> We need to have a better check there "can burn" or something.
[08:39] <Sime> probably some exotic device that burns.
[08:40] <Sime> most devices just look like generic IDE harddisks.
[08:40] <sebas> Then 2/3 of my burners are exotic :>
[08:40] <Sime> oh
[08:41] <sebas> This one's a DVD burner 3:0, I've a DVD/CDRW combo (ide-scsi obviously), 11:0, and a Lite-On CD Burner, 3:64 (simple IDE)
[08:41] <sebas> Maybe major/minor are different if !ide-scsi? :?
[08:42] <Sime> what does real HAL have to say?
[08:42] <Sime> lshal
[08:42] <sebas> Didn't check yet.
[08:42] <sebas> Last time I checked, the python dbus/hal was quite unstable.
[08:43] <Sime> either way, we don't have time to try it out.
[08:43] <Sime> dapper+1
[08:43] <sebas> No, but good to have it confirmed as "not my stupid mind" :-)
[08:44] <sebas> "real" HAL got it somewhat right.
[08:44] <sebas> cdrecorder it is.
[08:45] <sebas> I've added HAL to mountconfig's TODO.
[08:56] <sebas> Sime: More fun.
[08:56] <sebas> In my fstab, the DVD has udf,iso9669 as filesystem.
[08:56] <sebas> mountconfig can't parse this entry, and leaves it as "not in mountconfig".
[08:58] <sebas> I'll see if there's a workaround (I could maybe set it to "auto", although that's quite rude IMO.
[09:03] <Sime> how can you have 2?
[09:04] <sebas> That's what the installer made of it.
[09:04] <sebas> It works ok though.
[09:07] <sebas> It's marginally documented in mount(8)
[09:07] <sebas> At the end of the documentation of the -t flag.
[09:11] <Sime> :-/ doesn't really explain what it does.
[09:12] <sebas> Yeah, well, I'll add a check if all filesystems listed are supported and change it to auto, ACK>
[09:12] <sebas> ?
[09:13] <Sime> dunno
[09:14] <sebas> It seems to try those two, instead of trying every possible fs.
[09:25] <Tm_T> jpatrick: ok!
[09:26] <jpatrick> Tm_T: what?
[09:26] <Tm_T> just wait, I'm uploading kopete deb to my website
[09:27] <Tm_T> JRe: you wanted too?
[09:28] <sebas> Sime: Can I commit something that sets it to auto, until we have a better solution?
[09:30] <sebas> I'm catching exactly that problem now, but I did not do the supported fs checking, we don't have a reference to MicroHAL there (could add that though, but it doesn't make the code really nicer).
[09:32] <Tm_T> dapper package with experimental jingle voice, testing purpose only (will build polished package tomorrow) http://www.tm-travolta.net/kde/kopete/temp/kopete_0.12-alpha1-1_i386.deb
[09:33] <Tm_T> if you get it installed, test msn webcam and jabber voice ;)
[09:37] <jpatrick> why, hello again seth :)
[09:38] <seth> hey hey jpatrick 
[09:38] <seth> can you make it to the meeting?
[09:38] <jpatrick> seth: Kubuntu?
[09:38] <seth> yessir
[09:39] <jpatrick> I have something I want to do on the agenda
[09:40] <jpatrick> seth: and I made it to the CC one today
[09:40] <Riddell> so jpatrick is now 2/3rds of a member :)
[09:41] <seth> haha
[09:41] <jpatrick> Riddell: I have a kcontrol-kdmtheme that just works!!
[09:41] <jpatrick> no lintain errors etc
[09:42] <jpatrick> Riddell: what am I waiting for now then?
[09:42] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1683
[09:42] <Riddell> jpatrick: umm, no idea
[09:43] <Riddell> jpatrick: oh, membership, you're waiting for mark or mako to ack
[09:43] <Riddell> not sure when they'll do that
[09:43] <jpatrick> do I get an email or something?
[09:43] <Riddell> kcontrol-kdmtheme I'll take a look at in a minute
[09:44] <Riddell> jpatrick: don't think so, try pinging kamion in a couple of days
[09:44] <Riddell> or if you spot mako or sabdfl online poke them :)
[09:45] <jpatrick> ok
[09:46] <jpatrick> Riddell: package is kdmtheme
[09:46] <jpatrick> hasn't appeared yet,,,
[09:47] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1684
[09:47] <Riddell> jjesse, robotgeek_away: a patch to desktopguide on the list :)
[09:48] <robotgeek> Riddell: you made a patch?
[09:48] <Riddell> no, someone else, don't recognise them
[09:48] <Riddell> Derek Buranen
[09:48] <robotgeek> yeah, one of our new team :)
[09:49] <Riddell> "Apofis (apofis) wants to join this team. "  do we know this guy?
[09:49] <robotgeek> hmm, never heard of him
[09:49] <jpatrick> err... simply put -> no
[09:49] <Riddell> Rejected!
[09:50] <jpatrick> Riddell: mako's in #ubuntu-devel
[09:55] <jpatrick> night, guys
[10:01] <robotgeek> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/KubuntuDesktopGuide
[10:02] <Tm_T> robotgeek: maybe I can help with desktop customisation
[10:02] <Tm_T> part
[10:02] <robotgeek> Tm_T: that's great. 
[10:03] <robotgeek> Tm_T: that's my weak area :)
[10:04] <Tm_T> well, that's about what I do with KDE ;)
[10:05] <Tm_T> if you can call customisation hacking windecos, kicker, doing own graphics etc etc ;)
[10:05] <robotgeek> Tm_T: feel free to edit the wiki page, and take control of the chapter
[10:05] <Tm_T> hum, ok
[10:06] <Tm_T> robotgeek: maybe system tweaks too?
[10:06] <Tm_T> or, maybe not, atleast not yet
[10:06] <robotgeek> Tm_T: feel free to take over the tips and tricks chapter, there's no one there yet
[10:11] <robotgeek> Tm_T: do you need help with docbook stuff? 
[10:11] <Tm_T> prolly yes
[10:12] <Tm_T> but let's talk about it later, now I'm going to sleep ->
[10:12] <robotgeek> Tm_T: just jump in #ubuntu-doc or #kubuntu-offtopic
[10:12] <robotgeek> Tm_T: bookmark this :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
[10:12] <Tm_T> good night :) ->
[10:14] <robotgeek> Tm_T: later Tm_T