[12:21] <nictuku> mvo, hi. In the NetworkWideUpdates spec you mentioned sources.d. That isn't implemented yet, is it?
[12:22] <mvo> nictuku: it is available in dappers apt
[12:22] <nictuku> hmm.
[12:23] <mvo> nictuku: it has to end with .list though
[12:23] <mvo> nictuku: the files you drop in there
[12:23] <nictuku> good
[12:24] <nictuku> I'm working in a new prototype in python for nwu
[12:24] <nictuku> using most of that specs idea, but with SSL'ed SOAP 
[12:25] <mvo> nictuku: nice! the initial implementation was pretty hacky :/ (the one that was never released)
[12:25] <nictuku> and a simple asymmetric cryptographic keys structure for authenticating.
[12:39] <mdz> jdub: who manages the fridge calendar feed?
[01:03] <jdub> Mez: pong
[01:03] <jdub> mdz: fridge-devel (jorge, robitaille, me)
[01:06] <mdz> jdub: can you add the stuff on DapperReleaseSchedule?
[01:06] <mdz> at least feature freeze, beta, rc and final
[01:06] <mdz> the rest are probably not of general interest
[01:10] <jdub> hrm, i thought all of those were already there...!
[01:17] <Mez> jdub: can you re-add me to planet please?
[01:18] <mjg59> Kinnison: Which one?
[01:28] <glick> excuse mem what version of cvs do you all use?
[01:30] <Burgwork> glick, http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=cvs&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[01:38] <Mez> anyone seen jbailey lately?
[01:40] <jdub> Mez: he's on UK time atm
[01:41] <Mez> jdub: darn he's broken libc6
[01:43] <azeem> Mez: bug number?
[01:45] <glick> for some reason my friend cant checkout sources without getting a read lock error
[01:45] <Burgwork> glick, please file a bug
[01:46] <Kamion> please don't file a bug about that, check with the server administrator first
[01:47] <Kamion> it's not uncommon for read locks to end up left lying around by accident
[01:47] <glick> Kamion, i am the server admin
[01:47] <Kamion> so check yourself :)
[01:47] <Kamion> either that or your friend doesn't have write permission to the repository
[01:48] <Mez> azeem: one sec
[01:48] <glick> can i do this...LockDir=${CVSROOT}/CVSROOT/Lockfiles
[01:48] <glick> in the cvs config file?
[01:48] <Kamion> no idea, sorry
[01:48] <Mez> azeem: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/30546
[01:48] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30546 in kdebase "kickers clock applet is screwed" [Normal,Fix released]  
[01:48] <Kamion> ask a CVS support channel or mailing list
[01:49] <floam> is dapper going to get gimp 2.4?
[01:53] <azeem> Mez: jbailey commented on that bug
[01:54] <Mez> azeem: yeah i didnt notice
[01:54] <azeem> and it seems this is fixed?
[01:56] <Mez> I dunno am testing
[01:57] <azeem> well, "Jeff broke libc" made it sound a bit more theatrical than it was
[02:08] <calc> mjg59: any idea as to when hal is going to be fixed to start up properly?
[02:08] <mjg59> calc: Mm?
[02:08] <calc> saw a new upload happened today and it didn't fix the issue
[02:08] <calc> it hangs on start up
[02:08] <mjg59> calc: Not here, it doesn;t
[02:09] <calc> if needed i can try to track down when it started happening, if i can find old debs
[02:09] <mjg59> Have you filed a bug? (I'm afraid I only uploaded to add some support I needed for laptop hotkeys, I didn't touch anything else)
[02:09] <calc> there is a bug open about it on malone and in debian bts
[02:09] <calc> i didn't file it though
[02:09] <calc> ah ok
[02:09] <calc> 23:51 < calc> and one of them "hald-addon-acpi" is stuck in read()
[02:09] <calc> 23:52 < calc> and the acpi one seems to be the last one started
[02:09] <calc> 23:53 < calc> so probably is the one actually hanging
[02:09] <calc> 23:55 < calc> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=351296
[02:09] <calc> 23:55 < calc> that looks like it might be the bug
[02:10] <calc> 23:55 < calc> but hal-device-manager can't attach to it
[02:10] <calc> 00:04 < calc> malone #30254 seems like the same thing i am seeing also
[02:10] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30254 in hal "Hal freezes on startup..." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30254
[02:10] <calc> thats what i noticed when looking at it last night
[02:10] <glick> do i have to delte lock files?
[02:10] <calc> now after todays update i see two instances of hald-addon-keyboard running as well
[02:11] <calc> i'm running on amd64, not sure if that makes a difference
[02:11] <calc> oh damn it finally completed
[02:12] <calc> it took like 5min to start
[02:12] <mjg59> Heh. Probably not my bug, then
[02:12] <mjg59> I modified hald-addon-acpi, but not in any way that would affect that (and my patch isn't in Debian)
[02:12] <calc> however hald doesn't show to be running anymore either
[02:13] <calc> hal-device-manager doesn't run anymore either, but thats probably due to it seeing hald isn't running
[02:13] <mjg59> hal-device-manager hasn't worked since dbus 0.60
[02:13] <calc> oh ok
[02:14] <calc> the debian bug report sounds like it is exactly like mine, including the part where it sits there for a long time and then dies
[02:34] <sistpoty> hi folks
[03:45] <jdub> hrm
[03:45] <jdub> so
[03:45] <jdub> the new build logs are... not brilliantly helpful
[03:45] <jdub> are the old build logs still updated?
[03:48] <crimsun> doesn't look like it
[03:48] <jdub> :(
[03:48] <crimsun> (judging from http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-panel/ )
[03:49] <jsgotangco> yo!
[03:50] <mjg59> jdub: File a bug!
[03:50] <mjg59> (ahem)
[03:51] <jdub> :-)
[03:56] <irvin> just checking... the latest kernel in dapper is 2.6.15-14 or 2.6.15-15?
[03:56] <mjg59> -15
[03:58] <irvin> hmm... i didn't get the update
[03:58] <mjg59> May not have built yet
[03:59] <irvin> i'll probably fetch it later... thanks mjg59
[04:03] <infinity> mjg59: BTW, I left the laptops at the office, since I had no other convenient way to get them back to you.
[04:03] <mjg59> infinity: Ok - I'll grab them at some stage
[04:04] <mjg59> Not urgent
[04:04] <mjg59> infinity: Hope they were useful (and you've broken initramfs-tools)
[04:04] <infinity> mjg59: By "broken", are you referring to the typo in the new feature?
[04:04] <infinity> mjg59: And yes, they were both quite useful.
[04:04] <infinity> mjg59: Though the tiny one is a serious pain in the butt to work with.
[04:06] <mjg59> infinity: I'm referring to it wanting to rewrite the conffile and destroy RESUME=
[04:06] <mjg59> infinity: Excellent. Do express my apologies to Zofia for failing to actually meet her (I do try to see all my fangirls at some stage)
[04:06] <infinity> Oh, that was going to happen anyway if the conffile ever got updated.  But I'm going to fix it.
[04:19] <tulga> hi all. I cannot install GIF library in dapper 2. howto install it?
[04:20] <tulga> I installed libungif4, libungif4-dev. but not found lungif
[04:25] <infinity> tulga: Tried -lgif?
[05:34] <psusi> Mithrandir, ping
[06:00] <lsd25> hi, i know this might be the wrong place, but i was directed here by the folk in #ubuntu .. the administrative programs like network-admin and shares-admin seems to stop and hang on the following: connect(13, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(16001), sin_addr=inet_addr("127.0.0.1")}, 16
[06:00] <lsd25>  .. any idea why?
[06:03] <fabbione> morning
[06:04] <desrt> lsd25; i'd guess it's because your loopback interface hasn't been brought up properly
[06:05] <desrt> lsd25; there was a problem with this a while back in dapper due to the network interfaces state file not being properly erased on reboot
[06:05] <lsd25> desrt, aha! that might be it, the thing is ubuntu refuses to start my networking on boot, even tho i enabled it in network -admin
[06:06] <lsd25> thanks alot that as it, no i only need to figure out why networking aint getting started
[06:06] <desrt> lsd25; i'll be less help to you for that.  bed time for me.
[06:06] <desrt> good luck
[06:06] <lsd25> thanks alot man :)
[06:08] <Mithrandir> psusi: pong?
[06:10] <psusi> Mithrandir, hey... was just wondering if anything has moved with the e2fsprogs header issue...
[06:10] <Mithrandir> psusi: I haven't gotten any more response from upstream
[06:11] <Mithrandir> psusi: I'll prod him and see what comes out of it.
[06:11] <psusi> cool
[06:11] <psusi> now if only I could open this password protected mount rainier specifiction pdf
[06:55] <Chipzz> lsd25: check if your interfaces are still named correctly
[06:55] <Chipzz> I have my eth0 and eth1 swapped since a couple of days
[06:56] <Chipzz> hmm wait no that would be unrelated ;)
[07:06] <lsd25> Chipzz, desrt already poin ted me to check lo .. which was it.. and then i found out why it didnt start on boot ..the interfaces file was fucked up
[07:41] <freeflying> Mithrandir: I've configured the /etc/environment to use zh_CN , but after remaster the live cd , it still use en_US as default language
[08:50] <Mithrandir> freeflying: you need to change the bootloader, since it's passed in from there
[09:15] <pitti> Good morning, Ladies, Gentlemen, Aliens, Artificial Intelligences, etc. pp.!
[09:49] <poningru> so would it be possible to have #dapper created so that bugs can be discussed in there?
[09:50] <seb128> there is a #ubuntu-bugs which should be fine for that
[09:50] <seb128> any need to create a new chan?
[09:52] <poningru> there is like no one there when I want to discuss something in #ubuntu-bugs
[09:52] <poningru> #dapper just seems more attractive
[09:52] <poningru> as in more people would want to hang out in #dapper than in #ubuntu-bugs
[09:52] <siretart> poningru: developers are more likley to be in #ubuntu-bugs
[09:54] <seb128> the name of the chan doesn't matter
[09:54] <seb128> people are not likely to hang to a new chan because it's named #dapper
[09:54] <poningru> would it be ok if I came in here to discuss those bugs if no one in #ubuntu-bugs answers?
[09:54] <seb128> no
[09:54] <poningru> :(
[09:54] <seb128> discuss bugs on #ubuntu or by bug tracker
[09:54] <seb128> read the topic
[09:54] <poningru> seriously? #ubuntu?
[09:55] <poningru> fine
[09:55] <poningru> thanks for the info
[09:55] <seb128> this chan is just not a bug tracker one
[09:55] <Kamion> "build it and they will come" does not work for IRC channels
[09:56] <seb128> hey Kamion, do you feel better today?
[09:56] <Kamion> at least not if you want "they" to include knowledgeable people rather than just more people with problems
[09:56] <Kamion> yeah, somewhat, thanks
[09:56] <Kamion> will attempt to work at least some of the day
[09:56] <seb128> cool
[09:57] <poningru> well I guess I will just file it all at malone, I just wanted a place to make sure my bug isnt showing up only for myself
[09:58] <seb128> even if the bug is showing only for yourself that may still be a bug and should be fixed
[09:58] <seb128> if you have desktop issues you can mention them on #ubuntu-desktop
[10:07] <pitti> elmo: please sync libpng (Ubuntu override ok) and remove libpng3 from the archive
[10:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: any idea why we only have ppc live images in daily-current? (yesterday, too)
[10:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm not sure what the status of the new world order with soyuz is concerning live images, so no, not really.
[10:17] <ogra> Kinnison, ping ... do you also process the NEW queue until Kamion had a training for it ? the new linux-image-2.6.15-15 packages seem stuck there ...
[10:18] <pitti> ogra: ... and we finally want sound back on ppc :-P
[10:18] <ogra> exactly :)
[10:18] <ogra> and i'm to lazy to compile the source myself :P
[10:19] <Kinnison> ogra: I have the ability but not the social responsiblity
[10:19] <Kinnison> and I may not qualify then
[10:19] <ogra> processing them would give you a huge amount of social bonus for that i think *G*
[10:20] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: do you happen to know if we're building live cds inside soyuz yet, or if the old procedure still holds?
[10:22] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: CD building is untouched
[10:22] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: whether or not the buildds are doing it, I don't know
[10:22] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: best to ask adam or lamont
[10:22] <Kinnison> ogra: Umm, maybe, but I'd also get a huge "see your job? not any more you don't" unbonus for fucking with the archive without the authority to do so
[10:24] <ogra> so who has this authority then ? 
[10:24] <jdub> ogra: darth vader.
[10:24] <ogra> haha
[10:24] <Kinnison> ogra: elmo, mdz or kamion
[10:24] <ogra> hey jdub 
[10:24] <jdub> and he wouldn't piss about with 'job unbonus' crapola either!
[10:25] <ogra> heh
[10:25] <Treenaks> jdub: 'I find your lack of faith.. disturbing' 
[10:25] <Kinnison> jdub: the force is strong in you, young waugh
[10:25] <jdub> one flick of the wrist, with a little bit of force sauce, and *blammo*, instant powerpc sound action
[10:26] <sivang> morning Kinnison !
[10:27] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: 'k
[10:27] <Treenaks> Now all I need is -restricted-modules for 15-15
[10:27] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: but elmo is awake, so you can ask him
[10:28] <Kamion> Kinnison: alternatively, feel free to instruct me on how to process NEW :-)
[10:28] <Mithrandir> elmo: can you tell me what the current state of how live (and I presume, regular install) cds are built?
[10:28] <Mithrandir> possibly s/elmo/Kamion/ too?
[10:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: AFAIK all that needs to happen for live CDs is that they get s/jackass/drescher/ somewhere, or similar
[10:29] <Kinnison> Kamion: I'm currently trying to work a couple of other things out, then I'd be glad to
[10:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: install CD building is unchanged; it was just disabled over the weekend, but I've re-enabled it now
[10:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: which means infinity or lamont, I presume.  Given that I just have trigger access and can't fiddle with stuff on the buildd.
[10:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: right
[10:30] <jdub> Kinnison: i imagine you've already had questions about build logs - would it be possible to spit them out into a directory like the old ones for a while?
[10:30] <Kinnison> no
[10:30] <Kinnison> Well, not easily
[10:31] <jdub> will similar browsing and searching exist on launchpad (soon)?
[10:31] <Kinnison> I expect so
[10:31] <jdub> cool
[10:31] <carlos> mvo: hi, around?
[10:31] <mvo> carlos: yes
[10:31] <Kinnison> the right thing to do is to file bugs on /products/soyuz for any view you're missing
[10:31] <mvo> carlos: long time not seen, how are you?
[10:32] <carlos> mvo: Fine, thanks. And you?
[10:32] <mvo> carlos: fine, I survided london and the dead-flu, now I'm good again :)
[10:32] <carlos> :-D
[10:32] <Treenaks> mvo: The New & Improved mvo?
[10:32] <Kinnison> jdub: honestly the most useful thing you can do is file bugs for whatever functionality you'd like.
[10:32] <jdub> ok
[10:32] <Kinnison> jdub: that way we have a target to work toward
[10:33] <carlos> mvo: Do you remember that problem I told you about update-notifier?
[10:33] <carlos> mvo: I'm having it again now
[10:33] <carlos> mvo: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileSugA3G.html
[10:33] <carlos> that's the last lines of the strace output
[10:34] <jdub> BenC: ping
[10:36] <jdub> oh man, this "to execute a command as root" thing is so backwards
[10:37] <pitti> jdub: we'll fix the description to be more readable and add a manpage
[10:37] <jdub> pitti: can't we do it with su?
[10:37] <pitti> jdub: we don't want to
[10:37] <jdub> but this is entirely backwards
[10:38] <pitti> backwards?
[10:38] <jdub> as a random terminal user, i really don't care about root
[10:38] <pitti> jdub: but it's only displayed for admins
[10:38] <jdub> and putting up banner ads about running stuff as root is pretty crazy
[10:39] <jdub> thing is, it's advertising something that flat out doesn't matter *until* you want to do it
[10:39] <jdub> in which case one of two things happens:
[10:39] <jdub> a) you know enough to try su, which should fail and explain what to do
[10:39] <jdub> b) you have no idea what to do, so you read the documentation that says to use sudo
[10:40] <jdub> c) you have no idea what to do, but some random website or book says to use su, go directly to (a)
[10:40] <Mithrandir> jdub: a) 1) people think about using su, but realise they haven't provided a root password and wonder how to proceed
[10:40] <pitti> for a) the message helps to point these folks to sudo
[10:40] <jdub> Mithrandir: then they either try it or go to (b)
[10:41] <pitti> and the message and manpage directly helps (b)
[10:41] <Mithrandir> jdub: yes, they do, and then they whine about it too.
[10:41] <jdub> Mithrandir: with a useful message from su, that would be reduced, but ultimately, we're not going to reduce the number of whiners by putting banner ads in our software :)
[10:41] <jdub> this is like all those stupid startup configuration wizards
[10:42] <jdub> EXCUSE ME WHILE WE INTERRUPT THIS PROGRAM FOR A MESSAGE FROM OUR SPONSORS
[10:42] <jdub> "try sudo to run shit as root!"
[10:42] <jdub> "thanks mum!"
[10:42] <Mithrandir> jdub: yes, I agree with you that it's a silly thing to have, which is why I argued against it.
[10:42] <jdub> WE NOW RETURN TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM
[10:42] <jdub> $ _
[10:43] <jdub> so we're doing crazy stuff like this in dapper, which we have to live with for 5 years? eek.
[10:43] <jsgotangco> eek
[10:44] <jsgotangco> poor grandma
[10:44] <jdub> BenC: http://pastebin.com/542984
[10:49] <ogra> jdub, afaik the sudo message was a sbdfl request ... convince him ;)
[10:49] <Treenaks> ogra: 'baby jesus might cry'
[10:50] <jdub> the other thing is, i'm being told on every terminal invocation
[10:50] <Treenaks> jdub: until you sudo once
[10:50] <jdub> i thought it was supposed to stop after the first sudo
[10:51] <jdub> i get it every time
[10:51] <jdub> and i have mad sudo skillz
[10:52] <jdub> i can even recover from typing 'sudp'
[10:52] <jdub> which i do quite regularly
[10:52] <Treenaks> jdub: alias sudp=sudo ;)
[10:54] <hunger> Hmmm... which deb do I need to write a bugreport against when I have user-processes hang around after the user logged out?
[10:54] <Treenaks> hunger: the hanging process
[10:54] <seb128> depending
[10:55] <Treenaks> 'the one & is in'
[10:55] <hunger> Treenaks: What if there are several different ones?
[10:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do we have anything like dapper_probs with the new world order?
[10:59] <Kinnison> britney is not currently in the cronjob
[10:59] <freeflying> Mithrandir: after remaster kubuntu's dapper livecd , kdm need be restarted manually, and then it can log into kdm 
[11:00] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: could it be?  Not having it is making my work a fair bit harder.
[11:00] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I think elmo said kamion would need to get it ready
[11:00] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: but kamion was ill yesterday
[11:01] <Kamion> Kinnison: can I run it on drescher, or should it be elsewhere?
[11:01] <Kinnison> Kamion: that I'm not sure about
[11:01] <Kinnison> Kamion: if it can run elsewhere then I guess it should
[11:01] <Kinnison> Kamion: if it needs to run on drescher you'll need to check with elmo
[11:02] <Kamion> there is no other host with a mirror that's updated anywhere near as regularly
[11:02] <Kamion> rookery is IIRC every six hours
[11:02] <Kamion> elmo: can I run britney on drescher please?
[11:10] <ogra> meh
[11:11] <ogra> inputattach is also stuck in NEW ... i cant work with a non installable ltsp-client package ... :(
[11:11] <doko> who does care about package removals from universe?
[11:12] <ogra> doko, elmo ... mail him the request
[11:12] <ogra> (and avoiding the word morgue in the mail helps a lot ;) )
[11:15] <Kamion> ogra: inputattach will be processed right after this publisher run and LP downtime
[11:16] <Kamion> I would have done it already but the publisher run kicked in
[11:16] <Kinnison> this LP upgrade includes a librarian disk array firmware upgrade so it's going to be longer than usual
[11:16] <Kinnison> hence the 1h window
[11:17] <Kinnison> it's just unfortunate it happened today
[11:17] <ogra> Kamion, thanks a lot 
[11:17] <freeflying> Mithrandir: may you give any advice on that 
[11:17] <seb128> is "lo" usually considered as a requirement on a well configured system?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes
[11:17] <ogra> i wonder if we shouldnt postpone feature freeze a week until the LP dust has settled 
[11:18] <Mithrandir> freeflying: uh, unsure.  Ask Riddell?
[11:18] <seb128> ie: what would you do with bugs like "app doesn't work when lo is not configured"?
[11:18] <seb128> close them as notabug? :)
[11:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: why does he not have lo configured?
[11:19] <seb128> dunno, ask sladen, he did open a bug on totem about that
[11:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: I did an install off the dapper 2006-02-03 CD last night
[11:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: I had a couple of comments but I'm not sure if you'll have fixed them yet
[11:19] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'd just close it with something along the lines of "please up your lo interface, then"
[11:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: do you want them here, in a mail to you, or filed as bugs?
[11:19] <seb128> k, let's close the bug, we have enough real ones without bothering for people who don't want to configure a lo
[11:20] <hunger> No lo was common a while back with all those networking changes going on... I thought that was fixed?
[11:20] <Kamion> Kinnison: quick summary?
[11:20] <seb128> Mithrandir: right, will do that, thank you :)
[11:20] <hunger> seb128: When was that bug filed?
[11:20] <Mithrandir> hunger: sure, but then the bug is "lo is not configured" rather than "$foo doesn't work when lo is not configured"
[11:20] <Kinnison> Kamion: downloading file XXX of YYY (TTT remaining)
[11:20] <Kinnison> Kamion: TTT never left 0s
[11:20] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: aptitude bug
[11:20] <Kinnison> Kamion: when installing the packages, it still used the CD
[11:20] <seb128> hunger: the lo one? today
[11:20] <hunger> Mithrandir: Well, you know how people report bugs:-)
[11:21] <Kamion> ogra: I don't think that would fit into the rest of the schedule without delaying dapper, sorry
[11:21] <Kamion> Kinnison: downloading should be retrieving, known bug
[11:21] <hunger> seb128: Oh, then I'd go for notabug;-)
[11:21] <Kinnison> Kamion: and "font installation is unutterably slow, can we stub fc-cache like we did for scrollkeeper?"
[11:21] <Kamion> Kinnison: oh, yeah, just need to test that one
[11:21] <Kamion> ok, don't need bugs for any of those
[11:21] <Kinnison> Kamion: and "When loading the kernel, green text appeared at the top of my screen"
[11:21] <Kamion> that one I know about but don't currently know how to fix; it's reasonably frequently reported
[11:22] <ogra> Kaloz, yes, sadly ... but its delaying work quite a bit ... would have been nice to have that planned in the beginning ...
[11:22] <Kinnison> Kamion: the rest are after the first reboot
[11:22] <Kinnison> Kamion: so I'll file bugs for 'em
[11:22] <Kamion> ogra: I don't think it's a significant enough delay to justify shifting freezes around.
[11:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can you promote python2.4-soappy?  It appears it's needed by python-soappy which in turn is needed by u-d.
[11:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: (python-soappy is already in main and from the same source package, so no inclusion report should be needed)
[11:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: will do after the LP downtime, when Kinnison's promised to teach me how to change overrides :)
[11:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: great, thanks.
[11:23] <Kamion> Kinnison: the green text requires grotty x86 assembly hacking in syslinux
[11:23] <Kinnison> Kamion: yum
[11:30] <Kinnison> build sequencer suspended, incoming queue process suspended, cron.daily suspended
[11:30] <Kinnison> uploads should be queued
[11:30] <Kinnison> we'll make this as quick as we can guys
[11:30] <ogra> e
[11:51] <ogra> pitti, did we have any securityhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-February/066622.html update which could cause this ? 
[11:51] <ogra> grepf
[11:51] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-February/066622.html
[11:52] <pitti> ogra: not really, sounds like iz gamin bug
[11:52] <pitti> ogra: killall gam-server ?
[11:52] <pitti> hey Keybuk 
[11:52] <ogra> pitti, thats breezy 
[11:52] <pitti> I know
[11:52] <Keybuk> heyhey
[11:52] <ogra> pitti, i have no idea why this should appear there
[11:53] <pitti> but the last security updates didn't touch gnome
[11:53] <ogra> pitti, thats what i thought
[11:54] <ogra> Keybuk, i recently had to look at bootmisc.sh, it has a line like:
[11:54] <ogra> rm -f /tmp/.clean /var/run/.clean /var/lock/.clean
[11:54] <ogra> isnt that obsolete ? 
[11:55] <Kinnison> Keybuk: my shiny new dapper install hangs at "detecting and activating hardware"
[11:55] <Kinnison> Keybuk: on warm boots
[11:56] <Keybuk> Kinnison: boot without quiet and splash and see what the last dmesg line is
[11:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Will do
[11:57] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, but I didn't worry about that one because it's harmless
[11:57] <pitti> the rescue mode should also do some verboseness
[11:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: also, when shutting down, it sits for ages and ages at sending TERM signal
[11:57] <Keybuk> ogra: the actual /var/run and /var/lock cleaning code is gone though
[11:57] <ogra> Keybuk, just noticed it 
[11:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I was too tired to debug last night
[11:57] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I fixed a bug in gnome-power-preferences and went to bed
[11:59] <radone> Pleas could anyone help me with sourcelist configuration?
[11:59] <radone> I have dependency problem : libgtkmm2.0-dev: Depends: libgtk2.0-dev but it is not going to be installed
[11:59] <radone> my source list is here: http://cpp.sourceforge.net/?show=12312
[11:59] <ogra> radone, please ask in #ubuntu, this is not a support channel
[11:59] <ogra> (see topic)
[11:59] <radone> ogra: ok, thanks
[12:00] <ogra> Kinnison, which bug in gnome-power-preferences did you fix ? i have no bug reports ...
[12:00] <ogra> (yet)
[12:00] <ogra> :)
[12:00] <Kinnison> ogra: bug 30718 :-)
[12:01] <Kinnison> Keybuk: erm, it can't talk to the db
[12:01] <Kinnison> production rollout in progress
[12:01] <Keybuk> oh
[12:01] <ogra> heh
[12:01] <Kinnison> poor ubugtu
[12:19] <Kinnison> Unfortunately the database update is taking longer than we'd hoped, we may not hit our 1h estimate, sorry about this
[12:19] <Robot101> to the pub! :)
[12:19] <Kinnison> Robot101: I wish
[12:29] <Kinnison> Bringing up the ftpmaster functions, please wait
[12:30] <Keybuk> SPIN UP PONIES FIVE THROUGH TWELVE!
[12:32] <Keybuk> Hah!  Take that "hardware detection takes ages on my machine" people!
[12:32] <Keybuk> muahahahaha
[12:32] <Keybuk> never again will we get a complaint that Ubuntu takes too long to "detect hardware"
[12:32] <Robot101> Keybuk: you removed hardware support?! :)
[12:32] <Treenaks> Robot101: he changed the message ;)
[12:32] <Kinnison> incoming queue processor enabled
[12:33] <Robot101> "Rotating badgers"
[12:33] <Keybuk> if only usplash could do animation
[12:33] <Keybuk> imagine what the breezy april fools joke could've been
[12:33] <jpatrick> lol
[12:34] <Kinnison> Ubuntu days reenabled for XX:00
[12:35] <sivang> jdub: is this your work? :) http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/random/3ubuntu.jpg
[12:35] <jbailey> Keybuk: Usplash could do animation.  I'll flicker because of lack of double buffering, but it's no worse than I had on my TRS-80 ;)
[12:35] <Kinnison> trash80!
[12:36] <jbailey> Kinnison: Yeah.  I phear what my father must've paid for that collection of machinery when I was little. =)
[12:37] <Kamion> pitti: could you please review inputattach for main inclusion? thanks
[12:37] <pitti> yep
[12:38] <Keybuk> didn't we go through that bit already? :p
[12:38] <Keybuk> I remember bribing you and shortcutting it in <g>
[12:39] <Kamion> I noticed that joystick was in universe, so I don't get to use the "basically already in main" exception
[12:41] <Keybuk> I need to find a package I can use Tom Lehrer quotes and lyrics in the changelog of
[12:41] <Keybuk> :p
[12:41] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Send the marines.
[12:42] <Keybuk>  We'll all go together, when we go
[12:42] <Kinnison>  Three billion hunks of well done steak
[12:45] <Kinnison>  I got it from Alice...
[12:46] <Kinnison> Keybuk: or, to follow on from your last maths related one...  But you can't take seven from three...
[12:46] <mjr>  You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant (excepting Alice)
[12:46] <Kinnison> BTW, the +builds UI should be fixed a bit now
[12:48] <Kinnison> Keybuk: in fact, the new math song is full of usable lines
[12:48] <Kinnison> "'cos addition is commutative, right?'"
[12:49] <Treenaks> 'The textbook that I got this problem out of wants you do do it in base 8'
[12:50] <lamont-away> Mithrandir: what needs love on the livecd front?
[12:51] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/udev
[12:51] <Keybuk> Kinnison: ^ still displays the wrong versions
[12:51] <Mithrandir> lamont-away: s/jackass/drescher/ in livecd.sh, AIUI
[12:51] <Kinnison> Keybuk: yeah, s'a non-shallow bug afaict
[12:51] <Kinnison> Keybuk: bug cprov
[12:51] <jdub> sivang: found object
[12:52] <lamont-away> Mithrandir: ah, ok.  I'll fix that once I'm awake
[12:52] <Kamion> lamont-away: (s/jackass/drescher/ is kind of a spiritual rendering of the substitution, I'm sure a few other things need changed ... worst case make it use archive.u.c)
[12:52] <Mithrandir> lamont-away: thanks.  And what Kamion says
[12:53] <Keybuk> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4688670.stm
[12:53] <Keybuk> ^ fantastic
[12:54] <jpatrick> wow, that's odd..
[12:55] <Diziet> Woohoo, Debian ff maintainer seems to be accepting most of my patches.
[01:07] <slomo> mjg59: ping? i have two patches for the dbus-mono bindings... do you want to take a look at it or can i upload it?
[01:10] <mjg59> slomo: I'm so not the right person :)
[01:10] <mjg59> Check with pitti and then upload?
[01:10] <sladen> Keybuk: it could do animation
[01:10] <sladen> Keybuk: what did you have in mind?
[01:10] <slomo> mjg59: well, you was the last one who touched dbus :) but ok, i'll ask pitti
[01:10] <Keybuk> sladen: dancing badgers, naturally
[01:10] <slomo> pitti: ping? ;)
[01:11] <ogra> mjg59, did you chnage something else in your last g-p-m upload ? i have a missing icon in the preferences recently
[01:11] <pitti> listening...
[01:11] <mjg59> ogra: Hrm. Don't think so.
[01:11] <ogra> mjg59, (apart from the changelog entries i mean indeed)
[01:11] <ogra> ok, i'll have a deeper look then
[01:11] <seb128> icons broken are probably gnome-icon-theme bog
[01:11] <slomo> pitti: this is the debdiff: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/dbus_0.60-2ubuntu11.debdiff
[01:11] <seb128> there changed half of the world
[01:12] <slomo> pitti: it fixes two rather big bugs in the bindings... and doesn't touch anything else
[01:12] <seb128> s/there/they
[01:13] <pitti> slomo: ok, I'll upload that
[01:13] <slomo> pitti: thanks :) (well, i could upload it too but when you want to do it...)
[01:14] <pitti> slomo: oh, then go ahead
[01:14] <ogra> seb128, hmm, i just noted it with all different themes ...
[01:14] <pitti> slomo: I thought you were searching for a main uploader
[01:14] <seb128> ogra: they probably all inherit from the gnome theme and don't ship any variant for that icon
[01:14] <ogra> yup
[01:14] <slomo> pitti: no... only for a "go ahead" :) i don't want to touch something as important as dbus without asking before
[01:14] <ogra> guess so
[01:15] <Keybuk> ogra: this isn't the first missing icon you've had though
[01:15] <Keybuk> you had missing nm icons last week, no?
[01:15] <ogra> yup
[01:15] <seb128> that was due to a cache issue
[01:15] <ogra> but that was fixed by deleting a cache file 
[01:16] <seb128> something/somebody did generate a GTK icon cache on his box
[01:16] <Treenaks> seb128: gnome doesn't remember that I want nm-applet to start, is that a result of the new logout/switchuser stuff?
[01:16] <seb128> how would it be supposed to remember? save it to your session
[01:16] <seb128> ie: run gnome-session-save
[01:17] <Treenaks> seb128: why doesn't it do that for me?
[01:17] <seb128> it never did
[01:17] <seb128> because it doesn't assume you want to register all the stuff which are open to your session
[01:17] <seb128> you have to store your session when you want to do so
[01:17] <Treenaks> seb128: That's OK, but stuff like network-manager and gnome-power-manager are quite essential imho
[01:18] <seb128> that's why they put a desktop to /usr/share/autostart
[01:18] <Treenaks> seb128: then why don't they start?
[01:18] <seb128> which will be started automatically by gnome-session for every user when I've figured why it doesn't work atm
[01:18] <ogra> g-p-m doesnt yet .... iirc
[01:18] <Treenaks> ah
[01:18] <seb128> because you didn't send a patch and I'm too busy to fix the universe in a day?
[01:18] <ogra> (put a .desktop in place)
[01:18] <seb128> it does actually
[01:19] <Treenaks> seb128: I'm just asking.. sorry.. how was I supposed to know about gnome-session-save?
[01:19] <hunger> gnome-power-manager does not run when gdm is on as I understand it.
[01:19] <ogra> hunger, ??
[01:19] <ogra> you mean if youre not logged in ... ?
[01:20] <hunger> ogra: Right.
[01:20] <ogra> thats true
[01:20] <hunger> ogra: It should do aggressive power saving then in my oppinion.
[01:20] <seb128> Treenaks: no problem. Right there is an usuability issue with session saving atm, that's already been pointed but nobody went with a constructive suggestion
[01:20] <hunger> ogra: It won't be bothering anyone then;-)
[01:20] <seb128> Treenaks: if you have suggestions on how to change that you are welcome
[01:21] <seb128> Treenaks: note I don't want to fix the universe, but the session autostart is on my list, I just did come to it yet :)
[01:21] <Treenaks> seb128: sure, if I get a brilliant idea I'll send it to you :)
[01:21] <ogra> hunger, its fine as it is currently ... at least its the best we have ... future versions or apps we might use might also work when nobody is logged in...
[01:22] <ogra> hunger, i know desrt is aiming to prepare something alternative ...
[01:22] <seb128> Treenaks: note too that my initial comment is that session never remembered stuff for you if you didn't say it to do so
[01:23] <seb128> Treenaks: it just used to have a box to the session dialog for that
[01:23] <Treenaks> seb128: yeah
[01:27] <Keybuk> ooh, emblems are now recursive!
[01:27] <Keybuk> look ma, I was good today in the scouts! :p
[01:27] <ogra> lol
[01:27] <StevenK> Heh
[01:28] <Treenaks> Keybuk: No pony for you.
[01:29] <StevenK> Heh. I don't remember asking to be a member of motureviewers, but here I am being one.
[01:30] <Keybuk> StevenK: probably because you're a member of a team that are all members
[01:34] <jdub> Keybuk: you now have a little planet, too :-)
[01:34] <Treenaks> Planet Keybuk?
[01:34] <Keybuk> I saw that
[01:36] <jbailey> seb128: Around?
[01:36] <seb128> jbailey: yep
[01:37] <jbailey> seb128: How's life on the timezone front?
[01:37] <jbailey> seb128: Are all the issues you had sorted out with the 2.3.10 locales?
[01:37] <seb128> jbailey: great now, everything works fine now
[01:37] <jbailey> Riddell: Actually, for you too, are you still having TZ issues?
[01:37] <seb128> yep
[01:38] <Riddell> jbailey: I never did (having not run a dist-upgrade or anything)
[01:38] <Riddell> jbailey: but everyone who complained has now had it fixed by updating to latest locales
[01:38] <jbailey> Riddell: Lovely, thanks.
[01:38] <jbailey> Sorry about forgetting to upload that last fix. =)
[01:39] <jbailey> I have a launchpad bug open that counts on me not uploading glibc, so I'll look at moving all the timezone love to locales properly tomorrow.
[01:49] <Diziet> Oh, FFS, this strange spew from the ff build system is due to the make multiline incompatibility.
[01:55] <Diziet> AARGH.  How do I get this shit-for-brains new make to pass a multi-line string to a command without any spurious \'s in it ?
[01:55] <elmo> Diziet: there was a thread about it on d-d@l.d.o that might help
[01:55] <Treenaks> \l\i\k\e\ \t\h\i\s\ \o\f\ \c\o\u\r\s\e\!
[01:57] <Diziet> elmo: Do you happen to have a ref or shall I google ?
[01:57] <elmo> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/12/msg00988.html
[01:57] <Diziet> Ta.
[01:58] <mjg59> elmo: Can you sync hotkey-setup from Debian? (Do syncs still work the same way?)
[01:58] <Diziet> Eeeeeech.
[01:58] <elmo> mjg59: yes, and in a bit
[01:58] <mjg59> elmo: Thanks
[02:01] <Diziet> At least that way we won't get a rejected patch every time they change the middle of the script.
[02:11] <Keybuk> I'm going to write an MTA
[02:11] <Keybuk> it's Unique Selling Point will be that it never delivers anything
[02:11] <ogra> huh ? 
[02:11] <Keybuk> and I shall call it DHL
[02:12] <ogra> lol
[02:12] <zakame> haha
[02:12] <desrt> Keybuk; have it deliver a mail back to the sender stating merely "everything is ok."
[02:12] <ogra> but break the contens before :)
[02:12] <ogra> *contents
[02:13] <desrt> right.  you can't include the original contents in this reply
[02:13] <Keybuk> "we put it on the van this morning" ... that's nice, NOW WHERE THE FUCK IS THE VAN?  "oh, the driver finished for the day, it's gone back to the depot"
[02:13] <desrt> otherwise you might be able to trick DHL into delivering for you
[02:22] <Kamion> elmo: so how do I change overrides in soyuz (e.g. move a package to a different component)? Kinnison pointed me at change-override.py, but it tries to talk to dogfood and Kinnison said it looked unfinished ...
[02:25] <slomo> Kamion: while you're at it... can you move libxine1c2 to multiverse? it's source package and the other binary package created by this one is already in multiverse
[02:27] <Kamion> slomo: no, I can't
[02:27] <Kamion> slomo: not without knowing how to change overrides :P
[02:28] <slomo> Kamion: oh sure... sorry... but can you do it when someone told you how? :)
[02:29] <desrt> grr
[02:29] <desrt> slomo; 
[02:29] <desrt> Keybuk; 
[02:29] <desrt> "its", not "it's"
[02:30] <Keybuk> desrt: doesn't matter where you put punctuation, as long as it's there ;)
[02:30] <stratus> heh
[02:30] <desrt> "it's" is appropriate in this case.
[02:30] <StevenK> Damn, why didn't Keybuk mark my English papers when I was in high school. :-P
[02:31] <Keybuk> it's was appropriate there too, "it has"
[02:31] <desrt> 08:12 <Keybuk> it's Unique Selling Point will be that it never delivers anything
[02:31] <Keybuk> oh, bah
[02:31] <stratus> it's expired
[02:32] <desrt> i let it slide.... i'm usually good for one... but once slomo did it too i snapped :)
[02:32] <stratus> desrt: you should review intltoolized strings.
[02:32] <stratus> heh
[02:33] <StevenK> What's to negotiate? Keybuk didn't talk to you about it, he just forced you to the floor, and then to your death.
[02:33] <desrt> stratus; far more productive to make the authors of said strings acutely aware of their poor spelling :)
[02:34] <Keybuk> desrt: spelling things right would involve thinking before I type
[02:34] <desrt> isn't it noon there?
[02:34] <stratus> desrt: sure, but i was just pointing out that you would be helpful in that camp too.
[02:35] <desrt> stratus; i can't pay attention to anything like that for more than about 12 seconds :(
[02:36] <stratus> desrt: but i'm sure that you still have the raw power to blame upstream about their poor strings, go ahead. :-)
[02:36] <desrt> stratus; i often do do that :)
[02:37] <stratus> desrt: for more than 12 seconds? sounds great.
[02:37] <desrt> stratus; while using my computer, if i see something that needs fixing
[02:38] <stratus> desrt: good anyway.
[02:39] <desrt> we need a grammar police :)
[02:39] <stratus> i think english itself lacks one, so...
[02:39] <Keybuk> WHY ARE THOSE STILL THERE?
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> desrt: you rand?
[02:39] <desrt> rang?
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> er rang
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[02:39] <desrt> Keybuk; ya.  seriously.  wtf.
[02:40] <desrt> Keybuk; they didn't even ask me to add "desrt time"
[02:40] <desrt> Keybuk; (00:00 to FF:FF GMT)
[02:40] <Treenaks> Keybuk: 'Internet Time' is the @200 stuff right?
[02:40] <stratus> desrt time or desert time?
[02:40] <Keybuk> Treenaks: right
[02:40] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I know people who actively use that
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> Treenaks: that nobody ever used or understood
[02:40] <Keybuk> stratus: or dessert time?
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> Treenaks: all five of them will have to move on
[02:40] <Treenaks> HrdwrBoB: and UNIX time is useful sometimes
[02:40] <Keybuk> Treenaks: not on the panel, it isn't!
[02:40] <desrt> desrt time, definitely.
[02:40] <HrdwrBoB> Treenaks: anyone who needs unix time knows how to get it
[02:40] <stratus> Keybuk: yes, btw who cares about UNIX time? It's over.
[02:41] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I don't want to be forced to run the KDE clock applet...
[02:41] <stratus> :-)
[02:41] <Keybuk> Treenaks: "date"
[02:41] <desrt> hahahah
[02:41] <Treenaks> Keybuk: that requires an extra terminal
[02:41] <desrt> unix time is what i thought it was
[02:41] <desrt> what a useless option
[02:41] <HrdwrBoB> Treenaks: oh nos, if you need unix time
[02:41] <HrdwrBoB> you have plenty of terminals alreadt
[02:41] <Keybuk> if we have either of those, I want to be able to see the date in Discordian!
[02:42] <desrt> Keybuk; please don't say anything to upstream about those two options
[02:42] <desrt> Keybuk; i want to do something fun :)
[02:43] <stratus> desrt: bcc me and share the fun stuff.
[02:44] <desrt> stratus; send me an email with your gnome bugzilla email address
[02:44] <stratus> desrt: heh
[02:56] <ogra> pitti, ping
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: pong
[02:56] <ogra> pitti, do you have sound now ? 
[02:56] <ogra> cant get it working here
[02:57] <pitti> oh, new kernel in the archive now?
[02:57] <ogra> yup
[02:57] <ogra> /dev/sndstat looks fine, the devices in /dev/snd as well
[02:58] <freeflying> ogra: pitti : hi, I've noticed that you've talked about scim in #ubuntu-meeting, so how about that maininclusion 
[02:58] <pitti> freeflying: yes, good idea; can you quickly drive me through the first steps with scim? I don't know anything about input methods
[02:58] <pitti> (in /msg)
[02:58] <ogra> freeflying, its on the anastacia list for main inclusion... but that was before the switch to launchpad, no idea if or when it will enter main 
[02:59] <ogra> freeflying, i'm not having any clue about scim myself, i just see the enormous demad and occasinally get questions from users about it
[03:00] <freeflying> ogra: pitti : will you read something here www.scim-im.org
[03:01] <pitti> scim even
[03:01] <freeflying> pitti: I'm remastering livecd, and make skim work with it defaultly, so if you'd like , you may have a try about skim
[03:02] <pitti> I installed scim now (above was just a typo)
[03:02] <pitti> do I need skim as well?
[03:02] <freeflying> pitti: in gnome you need not
[03:03] <freeflying> pitti: skim is just a kde fronted for scim
[03:03] <pitti> ok
[03:03] <pitti> so I installed scim, and in gedit I now have the scim input method
[03:03] <freeflying> pitti: and also you'd install some IMEngine like scim-tables-zh or others
[03:03] <pitti> but I continue to type latin characters
[03:04] <pitti> whoops
[03:04] <pitti> I pressed ctrl+spave
[03:04] <pitti> and now I can type chinese :)
[03:04] <freeflying> export XMODIFIERS=@im=SCIM
[03:04] <freeflying> export GTK_IM_MODULE=scim
[03:04] <freeflying> export QT_IM_MODULE=scim
[03:04] <freeflying> #export QT_IM_SWITCHER=scim
[03:04] <freeflying> #scim -d
[03:04] <freeflying> #export XMODIFIERS=@im=fcitx
[03:04] <freeflying> #export GTK_IM_MODULE=fcitx
[03:04] <freeflying> #export QT_IM_MODULE=fcitx
[03:04] <freeflying> #fcitx-cairo
[03:04] <pitti> 
[03:05] <pitti> well, maybe not chinese, but something like that :)
[03:05] <jpatrick> hehe
[03:05] <jpatrick> :)
[03:05] <freeflying> pitti: great ,thses are some Japnese at all ,:)
[03:05] <pitti> ah, my keyboard selector turned into something different
[03:05] <pitti> with a huuuge choice of alphabets, nice
[03:06] <freeflying> pitti: y, and there many other IMEngines in scim-tables
[03:06] <spacey> too bad there is no k8 kernel on 32bit
[03:06] <pitti> whoops, gedit crashed
[03:06] <pitti> freeflying: is scim known to cause many crashes?
[03:07] <freeflying> pitti: it used be , but now quite few
[03:07] <seb128> pitti: backtrace?
[03:08] <pitti> !
[03:08] <seb128> pitti: oh, scim one?
[03:08] <pitti> (I hope that's not a curse of any kind :) )
[03:09] <freeflying> pitti: these are chinese 
[03:09] <seb128> how does scim work? I tried installing it some time ago but ctrl-space was not doing anything
[03:09] <pitti> yes, I know
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: right-click, select input method scim
[03:09] <seb128> ah, k
[03:09] <pitti> and then ctrl+space changes
[03:09] <mdke> siretart, any luck with the ubuntu-docs upload?
[03:09] <pitti> and I can select the mapping in the keyboard applet
[03:10] <freeflying> pitti: if you use qt/kde program , install scim-qtimm, and it will works too
[03:10] <pitti> freeflying: ok, nice, so it seems that scim works out of the box
[03:11] <pitti> and it's not terribly big either
[03:11] <freeflying> pitti: y
[03:11] <pitti> ogra, BenC: still no ppc sound with 15 kernel
[03:11] <pitti> it can open the device now, though
[03:12] <ogra> pitti, yes, same here 
[03:12] <ogra> pitti, i also noted that the alsa initscript is gone ... it used to make it work for me if i ran it with force-resume 
[03:12] <freeflying> pitti: still no sound on ppc with 15 kernel?
[03:12] <pitti> freeflying: ok, I'll review the packages now
[03:13] <pitti> freeflying: exactly
[03:13] <freeflying> pitti: I prepare to show kubuntu on ppc to Mark at 2/15
[03:13] <seb128> pitti: I've no scim method on a GtkTextView widget menu
[03:13] <seb128> (ie: gedit text area)
[03:15] <pitti_> bah, go my ISP
[03:15] <freeflying> seb128: you'd add these export XMODIFIERS=@im=SCIM,export GTK_IM_MODULE=scim
[03:16] <pitti> freeflying: why and where do you need all those scary exports?
[03:17] <freeflying> pitti: I put these in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
[03:17] <freeflying> pitti: you may configure these with im-switch
[03:17] <seb128> freeflying: doesn't work neither
[03:19] <pitti> freeflying: why do we need im-switch?
[03:19] <seb128> pitti: do you need to run "scim" somewhere to get the context menu method?
[03:20] <pitti> seb128: yes, I selected 'Scim input method'
[03:20] <freeflying> pitti: im-swithc ican configure these for each language such as Ja, Ko and others
[03:20] <seb128> pitti: I've no such menu item ... do you use the current dapper package?
[03:20] <freeflying> seb128: you'd run scim -d first
[03:20] <seb128> as previous time I tried, no way to get the scim method listed or the control panel
[03:20] <seb128> scim is running
[03:21] <pitti> seb128: yes
[03:21] <seb128> without the -d
[03:21] <seb128> I use -d now but no change
[03:21] <pitti> seb128: I just did aptitude install scim, and then it was just there
[03:22] <freeflying> seb128: if you'd like , u may use my livecd for test skim/scim   http://ubuntu-zh.3322.org/ISO/kubuntu-zh-live-i386.iso
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: oh, btw, I only seem to get it in newly started apps
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: i. e. I started gedit, and it's there
[03:23] <jsgotangco> downloading...
[03:23] <pitti> seb128: it's not automatically updated to existing apps like my terminals
[03:23] <jsgotangco> ugghhh 10kb/sec
[03:24] <freeflying> jsgotangco: it's just a 4M VDSL,
[03:24] <pitti> freeflying: hm, no; I get it in gedit, but not in gnome-terminal
[03:25] <pitti> even after restarting
[03:25] <seb128> pitti: I restart gedit several times
[03:25] <seb128> I'll strace it to see
[03:26] <pitti> freeflying: DCC doesn't work well here, please pastebin or email
[03:26] <freeflying> pitti: put the file I sending in /etc/X11/Xsession.d and make it can be excute
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: "grep -i scim /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules" ?
[03:26] <pitti> "/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules/im-scim.so"
[03:27] <pitti> "scim" "SCIM Input Method" "scim" "/usr/share/locale" ""
[03:27] <seb128> k
[03:27] <seb128> I've no such entry
[03:27] <seb128> scim package is bugged somewhere
[03:27] <seb128> lsd25: /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules/im-scim.so: No such file or directory
[03:28] <seb128> s/lsd25/ls (xchat...)
[03:28] <seb128> pitti: dlocate /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules/im-scim.so ?
[03:28] <freeflying> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8174
[03:29] <jbailey> doko: Seen the emails with Sujet: 	Request for clarification on the 128bit long double requirments  ?
[03:29] <Treenaks> 'Sujet'? :)
[03:29] <jbailey> Treenaks: "subject" in fr_CA
[03:30] <pitti> seb128: scim-gtk2-immodule
[03:30] <Treenaks> jbailey: ah :) 'shady figure' in Dutch :)
[03:30] <pitti> freeflying: that script sets scim as default input method?
[03:30] <seb128> ahhhh
[03:30] <jbailey> Treenaks: But I tend to assume that all of the distro team is passingly fluent in just about every western european language, and a smattering of eastern european ones for common prompts. =)
[03:30] <seb128> that's what I was missing the previous time too
[03:30] <seb128> pitti: thank you
[03:30] <freeflying> pitti: y 
[03:30] <pitti> seb128: you didn't install recommends: or something?
[03:31] <jbailey> pitti: ping re: timezone stuff when you have a moment.
[03:31] <pitti> jbailey: moderately busy, but just fire away
[03:31] <Riddell> jbailey: fr_CA is not a western european language
[03:31] <seb128> pitti: no, I use apt and don't install Recommends since I don't want those usually
[03:31] <jbailey> Riddell: I've been advocating that Canada join the EU for some time.
[03:31] <jbailey> Riddell: I want a european passport, DAMMIT.
[03:31] <jbailey> =)
[03:32] <jbailey> pitti: It looks like the sensible thing for me to do is migrate all of the timezone questions in glibc to locales.  I think that will solve the last of the questions I have about it.  Any objection?
[03:33] <doko> jbailey: yes, ABI breakage discovered for all versions after 3.3
[03:33] <jbailey> doko: It looks like glibc will support the old and new ABIs/.
[03:33] <pitti> jbailey: in principle not, but what do we need questions for? i. e. which particular question do you mean?
[03:33] <jbailey> pitti: Establishing the default timezone.
[03:34] <pitti> jbailey: ah, just a normal prio debconf question?
[03:34] <jbailey> Kamion: This is probably interesting to you as well, since I think the installer might set this.
[03:34] <freeflying> pitti: or you can install im-switch and " im-switch -s scim " , it will establish a simbolic link in ~/.input.d
[03:34] <jbailey> pitti: Well, the nice part is that I think this means it can actually become a debconf question.
[03:34] <freeflying> pitti: then scim will start with X
[03:34] <jbailey> Right now it's a shell script.
[03:34] <pitti> jbailey: ah, right, I recently got that question in a terminal
[03:35] <jbailey> pitti: Yeah, that happened because it detected that you had chosen a timezone that didn't exist.
[03:35] <jbailey> (since the timezones were no longer in the libc6 package)
[03:35] <pitti> erm, had I?
[03:35] <pitti> ah, I see
[03:35] <jbailey> So I think the Right Thing is to put the question in the package that actually contains the timezones.
[03:35] <pitti> I agree
[03:35] <jbailey> Since it's not an essential package, I think it means that I can debconfify it and everything.
[03:36] <jbailey> locales, that is.
[03:38] <doko> jbailey: right, dapper's as well?
[03:38] <Kamion> jbailey: as long as it continues to support the non-debconf interfaces to setting the timezone (/etc/timezone and /etc/localtime), that's fine
[03:40] <jbailey> doko: Dapper won't grow the new ABI.  It's all glibc 2.4
[03:40] <jbailey> unless I've seriously misunderstoof.
[03:40] <jbailey> Kamion: Sure.  Debconf Is Not a Registry. =)
[03:41] <Kamion> somebody remind me, what do I have to do to make Rosetta pick up a new .pot file in my package?
[03:41] <Treenaks> Kamion: draw a circle on the ground, put some candles on it, wave a dead chicken
[03:41] <Riddell> Kamion: it should do it automatically (or rather the rosetta people will notice it and assign it somewhere sensible)
[03:41] <Riddell> but dapper isn't being imported into rosetta yet
[03:43] <Kamion> Riddell: automatically if the .pot file appears somewhere in the source package, or if it appears somewhere in the binary package?
[03:43] <Kamion> this is a weird case and does not correspond neatly to stuff in /usr/share/locale?
[03:43] <Kamion> s,\?,/,
[03:43] <freeflying> pitti ,seb128 : how about scim now ?
[03:43] <Riddell> Kamion: if it appears in the compiled sources
[03:44] <Kamion> Riddell: YM the binary package, or the built source tree?
[03:44] <seb128> freeflying: after installing the input method it seemed to work, what was the discussion about?
[03:44] <Riddell> Kamion: built source tree
[03:44] <Kamion> hm, ok, scary magic
[03:44] <Riddell> I think, pitti will know the details
[03:45] <freeflying> seb128: We want this can be installed defaultly , at least for our CJK users
[03:46] <Riddell> seb128: I think freeflying is asking if it's passed main inclusion review yet
[03:47] <seb128> ah, that's a question for pitti
[03:47] <seb128> I was just interested to get it working because we get bugs about it sometime and I didn't manage to reproduce them before
[03:50] <hunger> pitti: Just assigned #30730 over to you... It would be nice if you could use that for fetchmail's init script (it is just a couple of lines shuffled around to make /etc/default/fetchmail more useful).
[03:50] <hunger> pitti: Thanks:-)
[03:59] <siretart> mdke: not yet, cprov wanted to contact me about some kind of additional required workflow. I didn't really get it
[04:00] <pitti> freeflying: yes, I'm reviewing it now, don't panic :)
[04:00] <pitti> Kamion: the pot file needs to be somewhere in the built source tree, not in the debs
[04:01] <freeflying> pitti: just waiting   :)
[04:01] <pitti> Kamion: preferably in the same directory where the po files are, but as long as there is only one po/ directory and pot file, it does't really matter
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: pkgstriptranslations just does sth like find -name *.pot -o *.po | tar up
[04:02] <Kamion> pitti: ok, perfect - thanks
[04:02] <pitti> hunger: yes, I agree
[04:06] <jbailey> seb128: Are you handling evo-exchange bugs now, or should those go to Adam?
[04:07] <seb128> jbailey: I don't have any exchange setup, so my "handling" on them is limited to forward what looks like a bug upstream
[04:19] <pitti> freeflying: what's scim-dev for? it's an empty package
[04:19] <pitti> freeflying: ah, nevermind
[04:20] <freeflying> pitti:  meta package to provide development libraries and documentations for SCIM platform.
[04:21] <pitti> freeflying: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportScimimswitch doesn't exist
[04:23] <freeflying> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportim-switch?highlight=%28switch%29
[04:23] <pitti> freeflying: ah, 'mind the dash' :)
[04:23] <pitti> freeflying: thanks, I'll correct it on the MainInclusionQueue page
[04:25] <pitti> freeflying: so what we should do is to make e. g. scim-anthy a dependency of language-support-ja, right?
[04:25] <pitti> freeflying: and maybe put scim itself in desktop
[04:25] <pitti> freeflying: so that we can avoid installing all input methods on all computers
[04:26] <freeflying> pitti: make IMEgine a dependency of language-support
[04:26] <Keybuk> got to pop into town to get vga/dvi converter, then will be building this pc
[04:27] <pitti> freeflying: hm, we don't even need to put scim in desktop, since e. g. scim-anthy depends on it already
[04:27] <freeflying> pitti: y
[04:27] <freeflying> pitti: just use dependency
[04:28] <jono_> hi all
[04:28] <jono_> is beagle planned for dapper?
[04:28] <pitti> freeflying: where and how do we bring in im-switch?
[04:28] <Treenaks> jono_: I think it's still too crackful for that :(
[04:28] <jono_> Treenaks, thats what I thought
[04:28] <freeflying> pitti: actually scim shall have a dependency on im-switch
[04:29] <jono_> but inotify is in right, so I just need to install the beagle package?
[04:29] <Keybuk> inotify is in, enabled and used
[04:29] <freeflying> pitti: another problem: how can skim be installed 
[04:29] <jono_> Keybuk, good stuff :)
[04:29] <pitti> freeflying: I don't have im-switch installed, and it works nevertheless
[04:30] <pitti> freeflying: hm, good question, we don't have separate gnome/kde support packages
[04:30] <freeflying> pitti: the others use im-switch to configure scim 
[04:31] <freeflying> pitti: im-switch make the configure more easily
[04:31] <pitti> freeflying: ok, I don't object against adding a dependency to scim
[04:31] <pitti> skim has it already
[04:32] <freeflying> pitti: I've added it to skim , but minghua will not add it to scim
[04:32] <pitti> why not?
[04:32] <freeflying> pitti: in fact there are request for add it to scim about 1 year ago
[04:32] <freeflying> pitti: I don't know 
[04:33] <pitti> freeflying: debian bug 314744 ?
[04:33] <pitti> silly Ubugtu, speak after me: D-E-B-I-A-N
[04:34] <freeflying> pitti: and in kubuntu, user needn't install scim , just libscim8 for skim
[04:34] <pitti> freeflying: hm, so shouldn't e. g. scim-anthy depend on scim | skim, instead of just scim?
[04:35] <freeflying> pitti: it's hard to solve all these 
[04:36] <pitti> freeflying: why? just changing dependencies is trivial? or does scim-anthy need more work to work with skim?
[04:37] <freeflying> pitti: scim-anthy is just a IMengine of scim, but skim can wok\rk just need libscim8
[04:37] <freeflying> actually, I just install libscim8 scim-anthy and skim, they will work 
[04:38] <freeflying> and dependency of anthy on scim is meaningless
[04:39] <pitti> freeflying: ok, whatever, but something needs to be fixed
[04:39] <freeflying> s/libscim8/libscim8c2a
[04:39] <pitti> freeflying: anyway, we shold probably just put scim into ubuntu-desktop, and skim into kubuntu-desktop and depend on the language specific input method packages in langauge-support-lang
[04:40] <pitti> freeflying: that libscim dependency is generated automatically
[04:40] <jdub> http://en.opensuse.org/Xgl
[04:40] <pitti> jdub: I saw the videos yesterday, craaack :)
[04:41] <freeflying> pitti: best choice  now 
[04:41] <jono_> we need that kind of high quality, fresh, brazilian crack in Dapper
[04:42] <ogra> pitti, another boring wobbly windows demo ?
[04:42] <pitti> ogra: yes, with a performance requirement our open source drivers will never ever provide
[04:42] <ogra> heh
[04:43] <pitti> freeflying: ok, chewing's dependencies are fine, could you please quickfix anthy?
[04:43] <HiddenWolf> pitti: isn't novell planning to ship it in NDL?
[04:43] <pitti> dunno
[04:44] <Yagisan> pitti, so my beloved radeon 7200 can't run it nooo!!! ;)
[04:44] <jono_> ogra, they are shipping it in NLD
[04:44] <ogra> HiddenWolf, in 3 years if its basically usable probably 
[04:44] <Kamion> Riddell: kubuntu-dapper seeds seem to have been locked for some time?
[04:44] <ogra> jono_, thats crazy
[04:44] <Kamion> bzr: WARNING: Unable to update the working tree of: sftp://chinstrap//home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/seeds/dapper/
[04:44] <HiddenWolf> ogra: damn. :/
[04:44] <Kamion> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.LockError: File '.bzr/branch-lock' already locked
[04:44] <jono_> ogra, it is a touch
[04:45] <ogra> HiddenWolf, no i have no clue to be honest ... but i wouldnt consider it ready for common usage
[04:45] <Riddell> -rw-rw-r--  1 pitti warthogs 0 Feb  7 15:33 .bzr/branch-lock
[04:45] <freeflying> pitti: you mean the maininclusion of scim-anthy?
[04:46] <Riddell> Kamion: pitti was the last to touch kubuntu seeds
[04:46] <pitti> freeflying: well, first that, and to make sense in general :)
[04:46] <Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 jriddell warthogs      0 Dec  8 03:35 branch-lock.write-lock
[04:46] <Kamion> dunno if that's significant
[04:46] <Kamion> pitti: ?
[04:46] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I'd be nice to look into to at least test it. People like candy, and graphically dapper isn't too different from warty. :/
[04:46] <pitti> yes, the write-lock is what matters
[04:46] <pitti> Kamion: but it's group writable, so that shouldn't stop you?
[04:46] <ogra> HiddenWolf, i like stability ... 
[04:46] <Kamion> I've certainly committed to kubuntu/seeds/dapper since Dec 8
[04:46] <Riddell> me too
[04:47] <Kamion> pitti: I could probably break the lock by hand but I dislike doing that
[04:47] <HiddenWolf> ogra: *chuckle* There is that.
[04:47] <pitti> Kamion: I had this several times so far, I just rm'ed the .write-lock to make it work again
[04:47] <ogra> HiddenWolf, and compatibility ...
[04:47] <pitti> Kamion: that's what they told me in #bzr at least
[04:47] <Kamion> ok, if neither of you are committing to it then I'll do that
[04:47] <Kamion> s/committing/pushing/
[04:47] <Riddell> I'm not, go ahead
[04:47] <pitti> me neither
[04:48] <freeflying> pitti: shall change the dependency in scim-anthy package and upload it now
[04:48] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[04:48] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, Feb is still surprising, though; the last time I merged the seeds was last friday or so
[04:48] <pitti> (Feb 7 even)
[04:48] <ogra> HiddenWolf, i.e. since i care for ltsp i rather care about S3 Virge than about Nvidia 25000XS turboboost afterburner cards ;)
[04:49] <pitti> Kamion: so I assume that timestamp was from your attempt
[04:49] <Kamion> pitti: perhaps my bzr touched the branch-lock in the process of discovering that there was a held write lock
[04:49] <lfittl> lamont-away: ping
[04:50] <HiddenWolf> ogra: Hm, yeah, I agree.
[04:50] <Yagisan> ogra: I miss the fact that my s3 virge has been unaccelerated since Xfree86 3..x
[04:50] <mdke> siretart, ok good luck with that. Let me know when it is sorted out!
[04:51] <pitti> freeflying: thanks
[04:51] <jono_> is there a central hardware database for ubuntu ?
[04:52] <pitti> freeflying: maybe you want to add the im-switch dependency to scim?
[04:52] <pitti> freeflying: I don't know whether this makes sense, so I just defer that to your judgement :)
[04:52] <freeflying> pitti: but the maintainer won't like to do so 
[04:53] <pitti> freeflying: in Debian you mean? I don't see a particular ubuntu maintainer
[04:53] <Riddell> jono_: no but ogra keeps an eye on what everyone is using at http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/
[04:53] <lamont-away> lfittl: si?
[04:54] <jono_> Riddell, ahhh cool
[04:54] <lfittl> lamont-away: svnmailer successfully built 12 hours ago, but it is still not in the archive
[04:54] <lamont-away> neato.
[04:54] <ogra> jono_, you have a short mind :P
[04:55] <lamont-away> Kinnison: ^^
[04:55] <jono_> ogra, I remember we discussed this in the past :)
[04:55] <pitti> freeflying: oh, wait
[04:55] <ogra> jono_, we talked about it a year ago ;)
[04:55] <freeflying> pitti: what ?
[04:55] <jono_> ogra, I didnt realise this site was up and running
[04:55] <pitti> freeflying: no need to deviate from debian just for that dependency
[04:55] <jono_> ogra, last time we talked you were working on the client :)
[04:55] <jono_> ogra, good work :)
[04:55] <pitti> freeflying: we'll just add im-switch to ubuntu-desktop
[04:55] <ogra> jono_, it is but still lacking basic functionallity ...
[04:55] <jono_> ogra, so can a user use the site to search for hardware support?
[04:56] <ogra> nope, not yet
[04:56] <pitti> freeflying: so, merely fixing anthy is enouhg
[04:56] <ogra> but a developer can use the hwdb ID and download the dataset to get the info out of it ...
[04:56] <freeflying> pitti: ok ,I'll upload to REVU
[04:56] <ogra> searchability is still the biggest lack
[04:56] <jono_> ogra, is the plan to make it searchable by users?
[04:57] <pitti> freeflying: will it be uploaded to ubuntu after that soon?
[04:57] <pitti> freeflying: if not, just pastebin me the debdiff, I'll upload it
[04:57] <ogra> jono_, yup
[04:57] <ogra> jono_, but that requires some time on my side i didnt have yet ...
[04:57] <freeflying> pitti: It'll need some reviews 
[04:57] <jono_> ogra, ahhh ok
[04:57] <pitti> freeflying: I'm happy to review it :)
[04:58] <ogra> jono_, currently edubuntu and ltsp draw all my attention
[04:58] <freeflying> pitti: just some minutes
[04:58] <pitti> yes, no hurry :)
[04:58] <Kamion> lfittl: it's in NEW
[04:58] <Kamion> lfittl: all new packages require manual attention before entering the archive
[04:59] <lfittl> Kamion: Binary NEW isn't processed automatically?
[04:59] <Kamion> lfittl: hell no
[04:59] <lfittl> Kamion: oh, k, thanks
[05:00] <lfittl> Kamion: Who processes the binary NEW queue?
[05:00] <Kamion> lfittl: elmo, mdz, and I
[05:02] <pitti> freeflying: same issue with scim-tables, it depends on scim
[05:13] <Diziet> Can anyone tell me what a StartupWMClass is ?
[05:13] <Diziet> (In a .desktop file.)
[05:20] <Robot101> Diziet: it's startup notification stuff
[05:20] <Robot101> Diziet: https://listman.redhat.com/archives/xdg-list/2003-July/msg00024.html
[05:22] <Kamion> BenC: are you dealing with l-r-m and linux-meta?
[05:22] <Kamion> (I NEW-processed linux-source-2.6.15 earlier today)
[05:26] <ogra> jdub, NEW stuff ? 
[05:26] <jdub> nup
[05:26] <jdub> libapache2-mod-annodex was NEW
[05:26] <ogra> yes, i saw the mail to utnubu
[05:27] <Kamion> jdub: versions?
[05:27] <jdub> Source: libcmml
[05:27] <jdub> Version: 0.9.1-0ubuntu1
[05:28] <jdub> Source: liboggz
[05:28] <jdub> Version: 0.9.3-0ubuntu1
[05:28] <jdub> Source: libannodex
[05:28] <jdub> Version: 0.7.3-0ubuntu1
[05:28] <ogra> i dont see any upload from you on -changes
[05:28] <jdub> nor i
[05:29] <ogra> when did you uplaod them ? 
[05:29] <jdub> i got a NEW mail back for mod_annodex
[05:29] <jdub> earlier today
[05:29] <ogra> hmm, likely Kinnison can answer this ...
[05:30] <ogra> or #launchpad
[05:30] <Kamion> 02:50:05 WARNING Exception during processing made it out of the main loop.
[05:30] <Kamion>  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1558945/vwS18nhX3kEkOC0oP39LLZBVffo.txt ('libcmml_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz')
[05:30] <Kamion> sodomy non sapiens
[05:30] <Kamion> I suspect you forgot to use -sa
[05:31] <jdub> hrm
[05:31] <Kamion> if that's true and soyuz didn't mail you to tell you, file a bug
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: inputattach looks fine, btw
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: I just wonder why it's not built...
[05:31] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, on launchpad?
[05:32] <ogra> hmm, LP bug ? it should reject it properly
[05:32] <Kamion> jdub: launchpad-upload-and-queue
[05:32] <Kamion> pitti: has built, I new-processed it earlier today
[05:32] <pitti> ah, I see
[05:33] <Kamion> and rookery has it
[05:34] <jdub> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+bug/30741
[05:34] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30741 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "No error mail about missing .orig uploads" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[05:35] <Kamion> jdub: oh, where did that attachment come from?
[05:35] <jdub> sorry, which?
[05:36] <Kamion> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1558945/vwS18nhX3kEkOC0oP39LLZBVffo.txt, mentioned in that bug
[05:36] <jdub> you pasted it above
[05:36] <Kamion> so I did :-)
[05:36] <ogra> heh
[05:37] <Kamion> hadn't noticed there was a traceback in there
[05:37] <ogra> jdub, looks like you can poke cprov directly in #launchpad :)
[05:37] <Diziet> Robot101: Ah, thanks.
[05:39] <pitti> mjg59: arrgh - I started g-p-m and it shut down my system
[05:41] <Kinnison> lamont-away: ?
[05:41] <ogra> hmm, yes, something is wrong ... i just updated it and the preferences crash 
[05:41] <Kinnison> ogra: ?
[05:41] <pitti> and now it immediately shuts down again while loading the gnome desktop
[05:41] <mjg59> pitti: Suggests that it failed to read your battery status and thought it was 0
[05:42] <mjg59> Presumably hal boog
[05:42] <pitti> mjg59: I just took out the battery, yes
[05:42] <mjg59> Ah
[05:42] <mjg59> In that case it's g-p-m being stupid
[05:42] <mdz> jdub: please unsubscribe khirano@gmail.com from ubuntu-bugs
[05:42] <mdz> jdub: it's bouncing, and the uncaught bounces are forwarded by mailman to me
[05:42] <ogra> Kinnison, see jdub ...
[05:42] <pitti> mjg59: it even displayed me the power chord icon, so it knew that I was on power adapter
[05:43] <mjg59> pitti: Ha. Right, easy enough to fix then
[05:43] <jdub> mdz: ok
[05:43] <pitti> mjg59: I'm going to continue to work on the new pmi now; I want to add script calling support
[05:43] <mjg59> pitti: Sure
[05:43] <mjg59> pitti: Ideally most of the scripts in acpi-support would move into pmi
[05:44] <jdub> mdz: done
[05:44] <mdz> jdub: thanks
[05:44] <mjg59> pitti: At least, the prepare and resume ones
[05:44] <ogra> mjg59, while your at it.... see bug 30718
[05:44] <pitti> mjg59: So I presume we'll need to move the /etc/power/ scripts from pbbuttonsd to pmi
[05:44] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30718 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-preferences crashes on toshiba a100" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30718
[05:44] <pitti> mjg59: but that will become a transition hell :-/
[05:44] <mjg59> pitti: Well, better to merge them with the ones from acpi-support
[05:44] <mjg59> Yes
[05:44] <ogra> not sure if thats the issue i see as well here
[05:44] <mjg59> ogra: kinnison was looking into that
[05:45] <ogra> mjg59, he already fixed it
[05:45] <ogra> mjg59, but has no upload rights :)
[05:46] <Kinnison> jdub: ?
[05:46] <mjg59> ogra: Ok
[05:46] <lamont-away> Kinnison: any idea on the status of svnmailer?  apparently "built several hours ago"
[05:46] <Kinnison> lamont-away: svnmailer?
[05:46] <lfittl> lamont-away: Kamion said that it was in binary NEW, everything is ok then
[05:47] <lamont-away> ah
[05:47] <lamont-away> Kinnison: is there any way that I can check yet? or is that still pending...
[05:47] <Kinnison> lamont-away: still pending
[05:47] <Kinnison> lamont-away: need web-ui visualisation of the distrorelease queues
[05:48] <lamont-away> ok
[05:49] <jdub> Kinnison: hrm?
[05:49] <Kinnison> jdub: ogra said you wanted me#
[05:49] <ogra> jdub, Kinnison is our point of contact for launcpad weirdness with uploads/buildds
[05:50] <jdub> Kinnison: i fixed my shit and filed a tangentially related bug.
[05:50] <Kinnison> jdub: okay
[05:50] <Kinnison> :-)
[05:50] <Kinnison> the joys of mortgages
[05:51] <ogra> BenC, hmm, my bcm43xx got worse with -15 lots of DUP's in pings to my AP and a pretty unstable behavior ...
[05:52] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, reading the scrips, we don't actually need to move them from pbbuttonsd - the ones that are active by default don't do anythign for suspend/resume
[05:52] <pitti> mjg59: and keeping the other ones in sync with upstream is a bit painful
[05:52] <mjg59> pitti: Ok
[05:53] <ogra> i dont have any probs if i just disable pbbuttonsd over here ...
[05:53] <pitti> mjg59: so I'll just add /etc/apm script calling for now, does that sound sane to you?
[05:53] <pitti> ogra: no, pmi with some perlish ioctl's works just fine
[05:53] <mjg59> pitti: Ok
[05:53] <ogra> pitti, yup :)
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: maybe g-p-m should conflict to pbbuttonsd in the future then?
[05:54] <ogra> pitti, dont tell that to Keybuk 
[05:54] <pitti> ?
[05:54] <Kinnison> BenC: I was having fun last night with a yealink usb handset. know much about them?
[05:54] <pitti> to Kamion you mean?
[05:55] <mjg59> pitti: Sure
[05:55] <ogra> pitti, Conflicts may only be used for file conflicts in packages ...
[05:55] <pitti> ogra: huh? since when?
[05:55] <ogra> pitti, thats what i was told  ...
[05:55] <ogra> pitti, ask Keybuk 
[05:56] <mjg59> Debian policy doesn't say that
[05:56] <ogra> i had this discussion during the last xscreensaver-> gnome-screensaver switch
[05:56] <pitti> that sounds pretty weird, how else should two alternative packages that do the same thing declare a conflict to each tother?
[05:56] <pitti> Keybuk: ???
[05:57] <sistpoty> pitti: see malone #22335
[05:57] <Ubugtu> malone bug 22335 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "gnome-screensaver conflicts with ubuntu-desktop" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/22335
[05:57] <pitti> ah
[05:57] <pitti> well, that's something entirely different
[05:57] <sistpoty> pitti: there is a lengthy comment in there ;)
[05:58] <ogra> pitti, see Keybuks comment at the end
[05:58] <seb128> pitti: the discussion was about screensaver, and having both installed is not an issue, you may want to use one with KDE and the other with GNOME on the same box
[05:58] <ogra> sistpoty, thanks, i didnt remember the bug#
[05:58] <sistpoty> ogra: me neither, but goole is my friend ;)
[05:58] <seb128> pitti: so they should not conflict for nothing
[05:58] <Amaranth> Replaces is supposed to Do The Right Thing now, isn't it?
[05:58] <pitti> seb128: but here they will
[05:58] <seb128> Replaces is when you replace a file from an another package
[05:59] <pitti> seb128: installing g-p-m and pbbuttonsd at the same time will break the same way as installing pmud and pbbuttonsd
[05:59] <pitti> which is why pbbuttonsd Conflicts: pmud
[05:59] <pitti> and that makes much sense
[05:59] <ogra> Amaranth, all these fields are only referring to files inside the packages ... according to Keybuk 
[05:59] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I was not speaking about current case :)
[05:59] <pitti> of course introducing a virtual package and C/F/P: to it would be cleaner
[06:00] <Amaranth> ogra: Until we have something better to do what we need, I guess we'll have to keep abusing them then, eh? :)
[06:00] <ogra> Amaranth, sure, you dont meet Keybuk in person to feel the baseball bat :)
[06:01] <Amaranth> ogra: we're on different continents ;)
[06:01] <seb128> Amaranth: abusing Replaces for what?
[06:01] <ogra> us others who do, might consider themselves ;)
[06:01] <Amaranth> seb128: abusing Replaces/Conflicts to do transitions
[06:01] <ogra> seb128, for package foo replaces package bar ...
[06:01] <seb128> if you want to transition you have to use Provides too
[06:01] <ogra> Amaranth, honestly, i tend to trust Keybuks knowledge
[06:02] <Amaranth> seb128: well, yeah
[06:02] <Amaranth> but those are all supposed to do different things, we're using them wrong
[06:02] <mjg59> Ok, fixed g-p-m
[06:02] <Amaranth> oh well :D
[06:02] <seb128> speak for you
[06:02] <Simira> who is in charge of time-admin?
[06:02] <ogra> mjg59, thanks :D
[06:02] <seb128> Simira: upstream? :)
[06:02] <ogra> Simira, dholbach 
[06:02] <ogra> *g*
[06:02] <seb128> Simira: dholbach/mvo/me
[06:03] <Simira> seb128: preferrably. I'm stuck in a wrong timezone
[06:03] <seb128> Simira: dholbach|mvo|me rather :)
[06:03] <ogra> Simira, thats locales/glibc ... was fixed by jbailey iirc
[06:03] <seb128> Simira: how "stuck"? what version of the locales package do you have?
[06:03] <ogra> try an upgrade 
[06:03] <Simira> ogra: there are none
[06:04] <ogra> hmm
[06:04] <Simira> seb128: time-admin doesn't work, and the last update changed my time zone, for some reason
[06:04] <Simira> to utc
[06:04] <pitti> mjg59: ok, so after Scott's lengthy rant^Wexplanation, it seems to me that g-p-m Conflicts:/Replaces: pbbuttonsd shoudl actually be fine?
[06:04] <mjg59> Sure
[06:04] <seb128> Simira: what version of the locales package do you have?
[06:04] <pitti> so I don't understand the excitement 
[06:05] <pitti> introducing virtual packages for all pairs of semantically conflicting packages is certainly not what we want
[06:05] <ogra> pitti, i understand that its not fine, unless you have two conflicting files ..
[06:05] <pitti> (s/pairs/sets/)
[06:05] <mjg59> ogra: This isn't true
[06:05] <seb128> pitti: the discussion was that xscreensaver/gnome-screensaver which don't require any sort of Conflicts technically
[06:06] <Simira> seb128: 2.3.10
[06:06] <pitti> ogra: according to scott, using Conflicts: *alone* is a problem, and I perfectly understand that
[06:06] <seb128> Simira: hum, that should work fine with that one :/
[06:06] <ogra> mjg59, this is what he told me in /query as well as the aforementioned bug
[06:06] <mjg59> xscreensaver/gnome-screensaver shouldn't conflict because there is no conflict of function
[06:06] <mjg59> g-p-m/pbbuttons probably should, because there is a conflict of function
[06:06] <seb128> ogra: that was not quite the same situation
[06:07] <seb128> your conflict had no reason to be
[06:07] <Simira> seb128: it worked when Tollef watched, for some reason
[06:07] <pitti> right now pbbuttonsd and g-p-m fight with each other, and I get really strange effects
[06:07] <Simira> seb128: but I didn't have locales installed, though
[06:07] <Simira> until now
[06:07] <seb128> pitti: I think everybody out of ogra agree you should use C/R for it :)
[06:07] <seb128> Simira: that was your issue so
[06:08] <ogra> seb128, i tend to agree, but still there are no conflicting files in the packages and i dont know about functional conflicts
[06:08] <Simira> seb128: probably. Thanks anyway
[06:08] <pitti> ogra: I do :)
[06:08] <seb128> Simira: complain to jbailey when he's around than an upgrade let you without locales installed :)
[06:08] <pitti> ogra: in fact, it function-conflicts with gnome-settings-daemon, too, but we didn't make that explicit so far since we needed the other bits of pbbuttonsd
[06:10] <pitti> mjg59: it seems that in the near future we need to extent pmi's interface to cover power source changes
[06:10] <pitti> mjg59: /etc/apm scripts support that at least
[06:10] <ogra> pitti, i'm just very careful since i had to learn it the painful way and its still how i understood Keybuk 
[06:10] <ogra> pitti, up to you if you want to interpret it differently
[06:11] <Kinnison> mjg59: thanks for that upload to g-p-m
[06:11] <ogra> pitti, but i think the part about virtual package names in the bug might apply 
[06:12] <Amaranth> err, don't xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver both try to lock the screen?
[06:12] <Amaranth> i guess gnome-session would have to start both of them for that to be a problem though
[06:12] <ogra> Amaranth, yes
[06:13] <seb128> Amaranth: only one is started
[06:13] <ogra> and gnome-screensaver had a Replaces as well back then 
[06:13] <ogra> even if the bug only states the conflicts
[06:13] <seb128> could you move that to #random-discussion-place? :)
[06:14] <Amaranth> so until we get the redesigned gnome-session... :)
[06:14] <seb128> ?
[06:14] <seb128> what are you talking about
[06:14] <seb128> gnome-session starts gnome-screensaver first and fallback on xscreensaver if it's not installed
[06:15] <seb128> what do you want to redesign?
[06:15] <Amaranth> seb128: i thought gnome-session was being completely redone for 2.16
[06:15] <Amaranth> using .desktop files in /usr/share/autostart or something to decide what to start in the session
[06:16] <seb128> that change is already in current dapper version ...
[06:16] <seb128> and that's a new feature, nothing has been redesigned
[06:16] <Amaranth> err, so shouldn't packages handle whether or not they're added to the session?
[06:16] <seb128> they do
[06:17] <Amaranth> and not the gnome-session package
[06:17] <Amaranth> ok...
[06:17] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[06:17] <seb128> g-p-m, n-m, g-v-m install a .desktop to /usr/share/autostart
[06:17] <Amaranth> i should just stop coming to these channels until the end of march when i'm actually using ubuntu again
[06:18] <seb128> I just have to debug why the feature doesn't work atm, that might be a distro patch breaking it
[06:18] <Amaranth> oh, that reminds me, alacarte and pyxdg will get no love from me until dapper+1
[06:18] <seb128> no big change :)
[06:18] <Amaranth> heh
[06:18] <seb128> they have not changed for months now :)
[06:18] <Amaranth> a couple of bugs still though
[06:19] <Amaranth> iirc one of the bugs has been fixed in pyxdg cvs for about 6 months
[06:19] <seb128> do you have a cvsdiff or something?
[06:19] <seb128> maybe we should patch the package
[06:19] <Amaranth> i don't even have access to cvs
[06:19] <Amaranth> the program, i mean :P
[06:20] <Amaranth> and it was a series of cvs commit's, i'll have to piece together which ones actually fixed it
[06:20] <seb128> http://cvs.freedesktop.org
[06:20] <Amaranth> someone else said they wanted to take over pyxdg maintainership, i wish i could remember who
[06:21] <seb128> in case you have access to some kind of internet browser
[06:21] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah, lanius committed it weird
[06:21] <Amaranth> seb128: it's a couple of different commits, i think because he got it wrong and didn't test before committing
[06:22] <seb128> what file has the change?
[06:22] <Amaranth> Menu.py
[06:22] <Amaranth> http://cvs.freedesktop.org/pyxdg/pyxdg/xdg/Menu.py?r1=1.142&r2=1.143
[06:22] <Amaranth> there's a start
[06:22] <Amaranth> but the diff is on top of all the other unicode fix attempts
[06:23] <zyga> hello
[06:23] <zyga> Amaranth: hi
[06:23] <Amaranth> good luck :P
[06:23] <zyga> what's up?
[06:23] <zyga> what unicode fix attempts?
[06:23] <Amaranth> it'd be nice if pyxdg in dapper could get the utf-8 fixes and tryexec support from cvs
[06:23] <lfittl> BenC: ping
[06:24] <Amaranth> if someone has non-utf8 data in their .desktop file, pyxdg will die trying to read it
[06:24] <Amaranth> cvs has a fix
[06:24] <zyga> Amaranth: are those fixes in cvs?
[06:24] <zyga> k
[06:24] <zyga> I'll look at them today
[06:24] <Amaranth> actually, i think it only fixes non-utf8 filenames
[06:24] <zyga> is there a bug number?
[06:24] <Keybuk> pitti: C/R is fine, I'd also recommend one of the packages was dropped from the archive
[06:24] <Keybuk> because otherwise we get bitten when we change our minds before release
[06:24] <Keybuk> like we *ALWAYS* do
[06:24] <Amaranth> bug 25699
[06:24] <Ubugtu> malone bug 25699 in pyxdg "smeg won't start at all!" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25699
[06:25] <zyga> Amaranth: thanks
[06:25] <Amaranth> and 29961
[06:25] <ogra> Keybuk, so i misunderstood it ? 
[06:25] <Keybuk> ogra: conflicts or replaces on their own are bad unless you mean what they mean
[06:26] <Keybuk> together they *can* do what you want
[06:26] <Keybuk> but only if you're never, ever, going to change your miund
[06:26] <Keybuk> e.g. udev conflicts and replaces hotplug
[06:26] <pitti> Keybuk: well, we don't want to drop pbbuttonsd from the archives
[06:26] <Keybuk> pitti: then you don't want C/R
[06:26] <pitti> Keybuk: I'd like to push it out of desktop
[06:26] <Keybuk> pitti: you instead want to make mvo's magic upgrade tool uninstall it
[06:26] <Keybuk> desktop or main?
[06:26] <pitti> Keybuk: desktop primarily
[06:26] <pitti> it's still good for xfce etc.
[06:26] <pitti> and we can uncripple pbbuttonsd again
[06:26] <Kamion> I think we also need to make the consequences of having them simultaneously installed much less bad
[06:27] <pitti> if we use g-p-m
[06:27] <Kamion> because not everyone will be using mvo's magic upgrade tool
[06:27] <Keybuk> the problem is that we're bound to change our minds and not ship g-p-m
[06:27] <pitti> and if we don't use g-p-m, then the c/r won't hurt
[06:27] <Kamion> for example each could refuse to start if the other's running
[06:27] <Keybuk> we've done this every damned release so far
[06:27] <Keybuk> kamion++
[06:27] <Kamion> that would be much safer and simpler IMO
[06:27] <Amaranth> maybe g-p-m could stop the pbbuttonsd daemon when it starts?
[06:27] <Kamion> and wouldn't cause massive package manager pain
[06:27] <pitti> Amaranth: no
[06:28] <pitti> Amaranth: g-p-m runs in the user's session, pbbuttonsd is a system daemon
[06:28] <Amaranth> hrm
[06:28] <Amaranth> pbbuttonsd could see if g-p-m was installed?
[06:28] <pitti> Kamion: but if we make g-p-m not doing anythign at all if pbbuttonsd is running, then we can as well not install it at all
[06:29] <pitti> Amaranth: no, because not everyone uses gnome
[06:29] <pitti> Amaranth: you do want pbbuttonsd for !gnome
[06:29] <Kamion> pitti: then make pbbuttonsd not start up if g-p-m is installed?
[06:29] <pitti> so that should be sorted out in the *-desktop metapackages
[06:29] <Kamion> that would work on the next reboot
[06:29] <pitti> Kamion: well, *that* seems hackish to me
[06:29] <Kamion> and is no worse than Conflicts
[06:29] <Amaranth> pitti: ok then, doesn't gdm run as root? :)
[06:30] <Kamion> and a hell of a lot less painful for package managers to resolve
[06:30] <pitti> Kamion: what's so bad about having two alternative solutions for a common problem and declarign a C/R about it? maybe I'm blind, but I still don't understand the fuss about it
[06:30] <pitti> the final u-desktop should depend on whichever solution we eventually want, and the c/r would make sure that the transition works either way
[06:31] <Kamion> pitti: because when we change our mind and want to switch back to pbbuttonsd, package management tools will start claiming that the sky is falling
[06:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: not for the first time, I wish for a testing/*_probs history
[06:31] <pitti> Kamion: how did we solve the notification-daemon -> notify-daemon and back case?
[06:31] <pitti> mvo: ^ ?
[06:32] <Kamion> pitti: notify-daemon has gone from the archive, which is sufficient for upgrade tools to work it out, AIUI
[06:33] <pitti> hm, so if I have notify-daemon installed, then the dpkg behavior when upgrading to notification-daemon depends on whether or not some mirror has a file? that seems weird to me
[06:34] <pitti> in any case, I'm opposed to make them both work together, but I would actually like to uncripple pbbuttonsd
[06:34] <pitti> right now it's half-useless with gnome, and half-useless without gnome
[06:34] <Kamion> pitti: it's not dpkg behaviour, it's apt behaviour, and apt knows about whether packages are available ...
[06:35] <pitti> I see
[06:35] <Keybuk> pitti: apt behaviour
[06:36] <Keybuk> pitti: "I have foo installed, which C/R bar, which is a dependency of meta which I also have installed"
[06:36] <Keybuk> MOMMY HELP!!!!!!
[06:36] <Kamion> AIUI unavailable packages are scored down, although I might be making that up
[06:36] <Treenaks> I want XGL for DAPPER!#
[06:36] <Keybuk> the only way to fix the problem is to violate the user's package choices
[06:36] <Treenaks> :P
[06:36] <ogra> Treenaks, pfft
[06:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: installed=100, available=500
[06:36] <Treenaks> ogra: or at least dapper+1 :)
[06:37] <ogra> Treenaks, pfft+1
[06:37] <Treenaks> ogra: how about a pony then?
[06:37] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, so the only other sane thing I can see is to make g-p-m not start if pbbuttonsd is running
[06:37] <ogra> Treenaks, youre a MOTU, just package it for universe ;)
[06:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: where's that done?
[06:37] <pitti> i. e. breezy->dapper upgrades will continue to use pbbuttonsd, and fresh installs will have g-p-m
[06:37] <Treenaks> ogra: actually.. xserver-xgl is packaged
[06:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: inside apt somewhere
[06:37] <Treenaks> ogra: but universe can't really be a default, can it :)
[06:37] <ogra> pitti, just make mvo's tool sort it ...
[06:38] <Kamion> I think the numbers must have changed then
[06:38] <Keybuk> and 100 is the magic apt barrier for something
[06:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: not recently, it's been 100/500 for as long as I can remember
[06:38] <pitti> ogra: that can happen independently then
[06:38] <ogra> Treenaks, i doubt it will be ready enough to be a default before dapper+3
[06:38] <Keybuk> (it's certainly 100/500 on my woody box)
[06:38] <Kamion> 500 doesn't match anything relevant here
[06:38] <Treenaks> ogra: isn't Novell pimping it for NLD10 ?
[06:39] <Kamion> oh, hang on, missed one
[06:39] <Kamion> ok, maybe that's it in pkgPolicy::InitDefaults, would have to remember how more of apt works to understand it properly
[06:39] <ogra> Treenaks, are we novell ? 
[06:39] <pitti> ogra: yay, sound on ppc is back
[06:39] <pitti> BenC: thank you! ^
[06:39] <Treenaks> ogra: Maybe :)
[06:39] <ogra> pitti, what did you do to get it working ? 
[06:40] <Amaranth> Treenaks: NLD10 won't be out until the end of the year
[06:40] <ogra> it doesnt work here 
[06:40] <Treenaks> Amaranth: dapper+1 then :)
[06:40] <Keybuk> Treenaks: +2 more like
[06:40] <Treenaks> Amaranth: won't be out before october :)
[06:40] <Keybuk> Novell seem to be clinging onto their patches and not releasing them
[06:40] <pitti> ogra: nothing actually, it just worked now after unmuting
[06:40] <ogra> hrm
[06:40] <Treenaks> Keybuk: yeah, that's bad...
[06:40] <Treenaks> Keybuk: They 'open up' a bunch of stuff in one go
[06:40] <pitti> ogra: in my last boot, everything was unmuted and I still didn't hear anything
[06:40] <Amaranth> Keybuk: they're at least making code dumps now
[06:41] <Treenaks> then leave it, and dump a load of patches on it every $long_time
[06:41] <pitti> ogra: maybe something the alsa scripts did on shutdown/next reboot/when the moon phase advanced
[06:41] <Amaranth> Keybuk: if they hang on too tight the code available will go a different direction
[06:41] <ogra> i tried everything ... i even found where Keybuk has hidden the alsa powermanagement now :P
[06:41] <ogra> but no sound for me :(
[06:41] <Amaranth> Keybuk: that started happening, they freaked and released the new code
[06:41] <Treenaks> ogra: Powerbook/ibook? because I've had sound on my mac mini since the _previous_ kernel upgrade
[06:41] <Keybuk> ogra: alsa power management? :p
[06:41] <Keybuk> ogra: it's in the same place as before
[06:41] <Treenaks> Keybuk: 'APM'
[06:42] <ogra> Keybuk, oh, was the initscript only a link to apm ?
[06:42] <pitti> ogra: but now I don't get /dev/sda1 for my usb stick any more
[06:42] <Keybuk> ogra: the init script was only called by the apm script.d file
[06:42] <pitti> ppc is doomed *sniff*
[06:42] <ogra> Treenaks, todays kernel upgrade is supposed to fix it
[06:42] <ogra> Keybuk, oh, how silly
[06:42] <Keybuk> pitti: quest has the neat "root fs is sdg" bug
[06:42] <Treenaks> ogra: I hope it doesn't break it again for me then :)
[06:42] <Keybuk> looks like I'm going to have to fix that <g>
[06:43] <Treenaks> ogra: also, I haven't actually seen that kernel in my upgrade yet
[06:44] <ogra> ok, lets try another reboot
[06:54] <mullen_> Kamion: ping
[06:54] <Mez|Work> I tried a flight 3 install with LVM
[06:55] <Mez|Work> and that failed.
[06:55] <Kamion> Mez|Work: hmm?
[06:55] <Mez|Work> now It wont get to the partioner - it freezes.
[06:55] <Kamion> if you mean the automatic LVM setup, that's fabbione's baby
[06:55] <Mez|Work> any ideas Kamion: seeing as you're the installer guy
[06:55] <Mez|Work> ah well
[06:55] <Mez|Work> it failed
[06:55] <Kamion> switch to alt-f2 and hit 'ps x' to see what it's doing
[06:55] <Mez|Work> and now I get stuck just before loading the partiioner
[06:55] <Kamion> last couple of processes, excluding sh and ps x
[06:56] <Mez|Work> will do
[06:56] <Mez|Work> give me a mo to reboot it though and get to that point
[06:56] <Mez|Work> was gonna reformat hard drive with windows 98 :D
[06:57] <Kamion> /var/log/partman may also help
[06:57] <Mez|Work> It's at the "scanning disks" phase it stalls
[06:58] <Mez|Work>  It's runing parted_server
[06:58] <Mez|Work> as the last process
[06:58] <Kamion> that's not meaningful - any particular /lib/partman/ script?
[06:58] <Mez|Work> and init.d/30parted
[06:58] <Kamion> oh, is there by any chance more than one parted_server running?
[06:58] <Keybuk> hmm, the x-chat notification icon has suddenly become FIST SIZED!
[06:59] <Mez|Work> only one running
[06:59] <Kamion> try killing off everything parted_server/partman-related and trying again
[06:59] <Kamion> that sort of thing can sometimes happen if partman dies very hard
[07:00] <Mez|Work> it;s doing same thing
[07:00] <Keybuk> seb128: apparently is all your fault ;)
[07:00] <Mez|Work> and this is after about 7 reboors
[07:00] <Mez|Work> reboots *
[07:01] <Kamion> Mez|Work: anything interesting in /var/log/partman?
[07:01] <seb128> Keybuk: I blame dholbach, he's the icon guy :)
[07:01] <Mez|Work> parted_server: OUT: ok
[07:01] <Kamion> Mez|Work: putting it somewhere I can see it is probably easiest, it's not an easy log to read
[07:01] <seb128> the xchat-gnome icon is fine
[07:01] <Mez|Work> Kamion : I can try and email it to you
[07:01] <Mez|Work> whether that'll work i dunno
[07:01] <Kamion> that's an example of a very uninteresting line in /var/log/partman :-)
[07:02] <Kamion> e-mail, stick on web, whatever
[07:02] <seb128> but right, gnome-icon-theme guys are on crack, we will probably revert to one of the previous version for that GNOME
[07:02] <Mez|Work> it's 34 lines long
[07:02] <Mez|Work> well I';m not sure how to get it from a machine thats installing to the web tbh
[07:02] <Kamion> back up to the main menu and select "Save debug logs"
[07:03] <Kamion> or switch to alt-f2 and 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' to get scp, if you prefer
[07:03] <Mez|Work> Kamion: for some reason it's unstalled itself - it's now somewhere else
[07:03] <Kamion> I need the logs before you perturb the situation much more :)
[07:04] <Mez|Work> well I'm not doing anything - just watching the log file :D
[07:04] <Mez|Work> oh, and it's behind an annoying proxy
[07:05] <Mez|Work> Kamion: I beleive it fixed itself :D I'll shout back in a mo if not
[07:05] <ogra> pitti, no sound :(
[07:05] <Mez|Work> I've got the partioner up and running now
[07:07] <Kamion> Mez|Work: I'd still like the log file if possible
[07:07] <Kamion> something that takes 7 reboots to fix itself isn't really all that fixed
[07:07] <Treenaks> it _is_ a special number (7)
[07:07] <Mez|Work> Kamion: It had no HDD activity etc etc ....
[07:08] <Mez|Work> Kamion: does it save the logs to anywhere- because I've no idea how to get back out to the menu or if I even want to now :D
[07:08] <Mez|Work> actually
[07:08] <Kamion> 18:03 < Kamion> or switch to alt-f2 and 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' to get scp, if you prefer
[07:08] <Mez|Work> I can copy the logs to the target 
[07:08] <Kamion> no
[07:08] <Kamion> it will save them to /var/log/installer/ itself if you actually manage to complete an installation
[07:09] <Mez|Work> ok
[07:09] <Mez|Work> well - I'll send you them once it's completed
[07:09] <Mez|Work> I'll actually be able to get to some sort of FTP site then :D
[07:09] <Mez|Work> It's installing the base system anyways :D
[07:09] <Kamion> thanks
[07:10] <Kamion> obviously I don't know if I'll be able to do anything with them, and we probably won't be able to verify any fix now anyway
[07:10] <Mez|Work> colin.watson@canonical.com ?
[07:10] <Kamion> cjwatson@ubuntu.com preferred
[07:10] <Kamion> though the above works
[07:10] <Mez|Work> Kamion: if they help - they help :D if they dont - hey - it's only bandwidth (and not mine)
[07:11] <Amaranth> fish fries?
[07:27] <jbailey> Simira: What issue are you having?
[07:35] <ogra> pitti, Kamion, Keybuk any news aboput inputattach ? i really need ltsp installable soon...
[07:35] <Kamion> ogra: I'm waiting for elmo to tell me how to change overrides in soyuz
[07:35] <ogra> Kamion, ah, fine then ...
[07:35] <Kamion> bugging pitti and Keybuk won't help you in the least
[07:36] <ogra> Kamion, didnt know on whose table it currently was ...
[07:36] <elmo> Kamion: what needs done?
[07:36] <Kamion> elmo: inputattach -> main
[07:36] <Kamion> also python2.4-soappy -> main, IIRC
[07:37] <Kamion> pitti's oked the former and the latter is just a binary from source already in main
[07:39] <Surak> hello
[07:40] <elmo> Kamion: should be done now, I'll hopefully get the stuff cleaned up and instructions to you and mdz later
[07:40] <ogra> hmm, intrestingly LP always showed it in main ...
[07:44] <Surak> Hi, I have trouble compiling linuxant's hsfmodem for breezy amd64. the error message is: "Unknown Debian architecture x86_64, you must specify GNU system type, too at /usr/bin/dpkg-architecture line 214.
[07:44] <Surak> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determne host architecture
[07:48] <Mez|Work> Kamion: logs sent - from mezzle@gmail.com
[07:48] <Mez|Work> Subject: Installer logs
[07:50] <Simira> jbailey: on my last update (yesterday), time-admin was updated, but it did not install locales. So time manager sat my time zone to utc, and I wasn't allowed to change it (or any other time issue).
[07:52] <ogra> hmm
[07:53] <ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[07:53] <ogra> looks quite funny in my firefox
[07:53] <ogra> (the tabs spread across the calendar)
[07:56] <jbailey> Simira: locales are depended on by ubuntu-minimal.  How did you not have it installed?
[07:56] <jpatrick> ogra: same here in Konqueror
[07:57] <ogra> jpatrick, ah, fine, so its the css, not the browser ... calming
[07:57] <Simira> jbailey: I don't know. I think it was uninstalled by some update I did
[07:58] <jbailey> Simira: Something to watch for in future upgrades, anyway.
[07:58] <Simira> jbailey: I probably need a hint on what logs to check
[07:58] <stratus> ogra: calm down yes
[07:58] <stratus> ogra: you are always a reload away from the fix
[07:58] <jbailey> Simira: All the logs get rotated, so there's no promise that you'd even find it.
[07:59] <jbailey> Simira: Given that we know the problem, though, I wouldn't worry about it.
[07:59] <stratus> ogra: it's happening with a lot of websites.
[08:00] <Simira> jbailey: ok, thanks
[08:05] <sistpoty> elmo: is it possible to have universe test-rebuilt like it was done for breezy?
[08:06] <janimo> ogra, you know anything more about the gdm themese issue than it is on LP?
[08:07] <ogra> janimo, seb128 promised to look at it ...
[08:07] <janimo> thanks
[08:07] <ogra> are you in a hurry with the artwork ? 
[08:07] <janimo> not really just planning
[08:07] <ogra> artwork deadline is still far out ...
[08:07] <ogra> we can already use the alternative etc ... seb128 will pick it up with gdm ...
[08:09] <janimo> do you already provide an alternative in edubuntu-art?
[08:09] <janimo> to etc/gdm/gdm.conf.deriv I mean
[08:10] <ogra> nope, not yet 
[08:11] <ogra> but we should have that ready before feature freeze (23th)
[08:11] <ogra> err
[08:11] <ogra> 23rd 
[08:11] <janimo> ok thanks
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo: great, thanks
[08:15] <Kamion> ogra: source was in main, binaries weren't
[08:15] <Kamion> Mez|Work: thanks
[08:16] <ogra> Kamion, oh ... yes ..
[08:36] <ogra> mjg59, regarding the screen lock complaints on lid close, do you also think we should have a "only lock screen" option in g-p-m preferences ? 
[08:37] <Bombshell> !list
[08:38] <jpatrick> Bombshell: huh?
[08:58] <daved> i've got a stumper involving breezy amd64, pam, and vmware gsx..
[08:58] <daved> Feb  7 14:48:34 virtual01 vmware-authd[14351] : PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/pam_unix.so)
[08:58] <daved> that file most certainly exists (the next line in the log after that is No such file or directory)
[08:58] <daved> so i'm wondering if there is a /lib /lib64 /lib32 issue going on here trying to load the pam modules
[08:59] <daved> ldd of the binary shows    libpam.so.0 => /lib32/libpam.so.0 (0x55573000)
[09:00] <daved> i can't find any package that would introduce pam modules into /lib32/security
[09:01] <daved> #ubuntu sent me here, so i apologize if this isn't the proper place to get support
[10:01] <elmo> does anyone know if it's possible to override dpkg's sense of architecture when building a source package?
[10:02] <tseng> elmo: the man page shows a --force-architecture
[10:02] <elmo> that's for installing
[10:03] <ogra> only through changing the control file afaik...
[10:04] <jbailey> elmo: It looks like dpkg-buildpackage has a -a option.
[10:05] <ogra> to be used with the -d option
[10:05] <elmo> right, but this source is building a mixture of architectures
[10:05] <elmo> not to worry, I just wandered if anyone knew off hand, if not, I'll mess around and figure something out
[10:06] <jbailey> I probably played with something like this early on with Hurd stuff, but haven't looked at it in forever.
[10:09] <Keybuk> ok then mr computer, why won't you boot?
[10:11] <elmo> mvo: grr, breezy broke --print-uris as non-root, is that known/fixed in dapper?
[10:11] <Keybuk> oh, I see why you won't boot
[10:11] <Keybuk> because you're all wet inside!!
[10:12] <mvo> elmo: what is broken? apt-get --print-uris install ? update?
[10:13] <elmo> mvo: install
[10:13] <elmo> mvo: specifically, I'm running 'apt-get -qqq -y --print-uris --reinstall install libc6 libncurses5'
[10:13] <elmo> which works with hoary, breaks on breezy
[10:14] <mvo> $ apt-get -qqq -y --print-uris --reinstall install libc6 libncurses5 -o Debug::NoLocking=true
[10:14] <mvo> 'http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/ncurses/libncurses5_5.5-1ubuntu3_i386.deb' libncurses5_5.5-1ubuntu3_i386.deb 291404 5e1677c5d6f5995855a4a2cfb9e272c0
[10:14] <mvo> that is dapper, I'm checking breezy now
[10:15] <elmo> ah, ok, the intuitively named Debug::NoLocking works for breezy too
[10:15] <mvo> elmo: oh, so the problem is that it tries to lock in breezy?
[10:15] <elmo> mvo: yes
[10:16] <mvo> elmo: let me check that
[10:16] <mvo> elmo: sorry for the inconvenience I hope using NoLocking=true helps for now
[10:16] <elmo> mvo: that's fine, thanks :)
[10:19] <pygi> hello, anyone that can kick people in #ubuntu?
[10:20] <elmo> mvo: apt-get -o Debug::NoLocking=true --print-uris --reinstall install libc6 libncurses5 libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2
[10:20] <elmo> mvo: any idea why that wouldn't print a URI for the last pkg?
[10:21] <elmo> oh, it's cached
[10:21] <elmo> so much hate
[10:22] <mvo> :/
[10:22] <pygi> ah, well :) will be better :P
[10:23] <elmo> mvo: 'tis ok, -o Dir::Cache=/die/screaming/apt/die works ;-)
[10:23] <elmo> well once I create /d/s/a/d/archives/partial/ anyway
[10:25] <Skenvoy> dead easy question: how do i specify a file pointer as an argument to a function in C
[10:26] <spacey> any  idea how i can find out why Xorg takes 50% cpu after reboot
[10:26] <slomo_> spacey: update-notifier maybe?
[10:26] <mvo> Skenvoy: sorry, this is not a support channel for programming, please try somewhere else
[10:26] <Skenvoy> <_<
[10:26] <slomo_> spacey: it was doing such weird things for me lately
[10:26] <pygi> mvo: join ##c
[10:26] <Skenvoy> people familiar with C blatantly hang out here :P
[10:26] <pygi> skenvoy: lol :))
[10:26] <pygi> sorry mvo, wrong person :)
[10:27] <Skenvoy> k, will try :P
[10:27] <mvo> good luck :)
[10:27] <Skenvoy> ta
[10:27] <spacey> slomo_ update notifier takes like 20% cpu
[10:28] <slomo_> spacey: try killall update-notifier
[10:28] <slomo_> spacey: i bet your cpu usage of Xorg is gone then :)
[10:28] <spacey> yup
[10:28] <spacey> just did
[10:30] <spacey> slomo know of a filed bug regarding the problem?
[10:30] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah, I've been thinking that
[10:30] <spacey> anyway i can't find it
[10:30] <slomo_> nope... mvo do you know about this problem already?
[10:30] <spacey> guess i'll file one
[10:31] <ogra> mjg59, i'll add a patch for it during the week then :)
[10:32] <mvo> slomo_, spacey: known problem, working on a fix
[10:32] <spacey> mvo: so no need to file bug?
[10:32] <mvo> spacey: no, thanks
[10:33] <spacey> ok
[10:35] <mjg59> ogra: Cool
[10:36] <ogra> need to do smoe C stuff inbetween :)
[10:37] <neuralis> ogra: after a year of python, my c went down the drain ;)
[10:37] <Simira> isn't ekiga in Debian? I have a friend that can't find it
[10:37] <pitti> ogra: C is indeed something more people should forget about :/
[10:38] <ogra> neuralis, i usually try to change between C python and scripting ...
[10:38] <neuralis> pitti: hear hear.
[10:38] <ogra> pitti, was that meant as a secret hint ?
[10:38] <ogra> :)
[10:38] <pitti> ogra: no, just a general attitude after having better alternatives (for most tasks anyway) for decades
[10:38] <ogra> yup :)
[10:39] <ogra> yay, my ibook has an f-spot :)
[10:39] <ogra> thanks slomo_ , works fine 
[10:39] <seb128> Simira: maybe it's in NEW, or maybe they have not uploaded it yet
[10:39] <pitti> ogra: I'm *so* glad that it's not a gnome app starting with 'g'
[10:40] <neuralis> pitti :-D
[10:40] <ogra> hehe
[10:40] <Simira> :D
[10:40] <pygi> :P
[10:40] <seb128> we should get f-spot on the default desktop
[10:40] <neuralis> pitti: actually, there's a (win32) application called g-spot that extracts codec information from video files, afaik
[10:42] <neuralis> seb128: f-spot, tomboy, and beagle, hopefully
[10:42] <seb128> no no no
[10:42] <tseng> neuralis: not really dude
[10:42] <seb128> beagle is not ready for that
[10:42] <tseng> pass the pipe
[10:42] <ogra> only f-spot
[10:42] <tseng> beagle can be dapper+1 imo
[10:42] <neuralis> oh, you meant for dapper? 
[10:42] <seb128> yep
[10:42] <pygi> still too unstable and unreliable
[10:43] <tseng> seb128: did you figure out how to get mono onto the cd
[10:43] <neuralis> i was talking post-dapper. 
[10:43] <tseng> well then yes
[10:43] <tseng> tomboy less than the others
[10:43] <seb128> tseng: no, I was waiting on you or slomo to do some estimation on how much CD place is required for that
[10:43] <tseng> its nice, but im not sure it warrants a mono process in the default install
[10:43] <tseng> (all the time)
[10:43] <neuralis> tseng: that's probably true.
[10:44] <seb128> tseng: did you do the wiki page for beagle/main?
[10:44] <seb128> I still want to build nautilus with libbeagle
[10:44] <tseng> seb128: hm no
[10:44] <tseng> it needs gmime2.1 and beagle -> main yet
[10:44] <seb128> before feature freeze would be nice :p
[10:44] <neuralis> then again, tomboy's one of the shiny things that non-linux people love to play with when i show it to them.
[10:44] <tseng> i just did a report to UVF update beagle
[10:44] <ogra> neuralis, while youre here ... do you have any clue how openssi solved the cross access to /dev over the different nodes ? 
[10:44] <tseng> to make everything work again
[10:45] <seb128> first step :)
[10:45] <seb128> do you know if somebody did one for f-spot?
[10:45] <neuralis> ogra: /dev is a cdsl, if i remember correctly
[10:45] <tseng> seb128: ajmitch_ is supposed to
[10:45] <seb128> having the new version would be nice
[10:45] <seb128> cool
[10:45] <ajmitch_> seb128: I will, I've got 0.1.8 ready to upload to debian
[10:45] <tseng> seb128: if he doesnt i will do it and kick him around a bit
[10:45] <seb128> ajmitch_: thank you
[10:45] <seb128> tseng: thank you too :)
[10:45] <slomo_> seb128: i'll take a look at how much space would be used tomorrow... but before we put that stuff on cd we need to fix mono on ppc... otherwise the ppc cds will fail to be created :/
[10:46] <ajmitch_> seb128: the major change to go into main will be changing to sqlite 3
[10:46] <ajmitch_> which will of course break everyone's install
[10:46] <tseng> seb128: ugh
[10:46] <tseng> er
[10:46] <tseng> slomo_: ugh
[10:46] <seb128> ajmitch_: not cool
[10:46] <seb128> slomo_: yeah, better to fix that
[10:46] <tseng> seb128: dude we are pretty stuck on the mono ppc stuff
[10:46] <tseng> seb128: because.. no one outside canonical has ppc-smp
[10:46] <ajmitch_> seb128: I know, but I don't know if there's an easy way to fix that apaer from shipping a migration script
[10:47] <ajmitch_> seb128: a python script to dump & reload the db shouldn't be hard, it just needs written
[10:48] <ogra> neuralis, i was wondering if that could be the solution for local device acces in ltsp ...
[10:48] <slomo_> ajmitch_: you could hack the f-spot shell script to do the conversion if an old database is found
[10:48] <ajmitch_> slomo_: I could, but that requires that the sqlite 2 & 3 command line utils be installed
[10:48] <neuralis> ogra: probably not without serious kernel hacks
[10:48] <ogra> neuralis, since i think the *real* solution is to have a secured access to the clients /dev from the server ... 
[10:49] <ogra> yes, i was suspecting that 
[10:49] <ajmitch_> which won't happen for most f-spot users (they'll only have the lib)
[10:49] <slomo_> ajmitch_: oh yes... i didn't think about that
[10:49] <tseng> like i said once before
[10:49] <tseng> if someone already has f-spot installed they have universe enabled
[10:49] <ajmitch_> slomo_: it's painful either way
[10:49] <tseng> and have sqlite2
[10:50] <tseng> if they are installing fresh, they have no db
[10:50] <neuralis> ogra: if it were possible, it'd probably be the most elegant solution, but it's impractical
[10:50] <slomo_> seb128: at least the people who have enough knowledge to fix it don't have access to a smp ppc... do you know someone who could give shell access to one?
[10:50] <ajmitch_> tseng: yes, which doesn't help if it's automatic, since f-spot never depended on the util, just the lib
[10:50] <tseng> blargh
[10:50] <ogra> neuralis, our kernel already has ocfs support builtin ... probably something is possible on top of this 
[10:51] <tseng> im off
[10:51] <tseng> cya
[10:51] <ajmitch_> bye
[10:51] <neuralis> ogra: hmm
[10:51] <sistpoty> cya tseng
[10:51] <neuralis> ogra: i'd be pretty careful about going that route
[10:51] <slomo_> bye tseng 
[10:51] <ogra> neuralis, sill plenty of time until dapper+1 ...
[10:51] <seb128> slomo_: nop :/
[10:52] <neuralis> slomo_: i can probably get you a ppc smp shell
[10:52] <ajmitch_> neuralis: that would be great, this problem has been unfixable for awhile
[10:52] <slomo_> neuralis: that would be perfect :) it wouldn't be for me but for one of the mono devs
[10:53] <neuralis> do you require ubuntu on it, or is osx fine? (i'm unfamiliar with the problem you're trying to solve)
[10:54] <neuralis> ogra: sure, but how are you going to secure ocfs? and it would still require non-trivial kernel hacking, i think
[10:54] <slomo_> neuralis: ubuntu... or some other linux distribution... the problem doesn't show up on os x from what we know
[10:54] <ogra> neuralis, i havent looked at it at all yet ... its only a weird idea ...
[10:55] <neuralis> slomo_: hm. that i might not be able to do. i'll send out some e-mails and let you guys know if i come up with anything.
[10:57] <slomo_> neuralis: thanks :)
[10:58] <neuralis> slomo_: sure. sent to a few people at mit genetics, i seem to recall they have a bunch of smp ppcs on hand.
[10:59] <slomo_> neuralis: ah... and we need a 32 bit userland on them... no idea if it shows up in a pure 64bit environment
[11:00] <neuralis> slomo_: i asked if they have one that i can just borrow, so if they do, i can put whatever you need on it
[11:01] <Keybuk> yup
[11:01] <Keybuk> definitely know why this pc doesn't work
[11:01] <slomo_> neuralis: great :)
[11:01] <Keybuk> diagnosis: the coolant isn't supposed to leak all over the motherboard and cards
[11:01] <ogra> Keybuk, awww ... watercooled ? 
[11:02] <elmo> is there some way to feed stuff to a serial console, short of expect + minicom ?
[11:02] <Keybuk> ogra: yes, quite literally it seems
[11:02] <ogra> ouch
[11:02] <Keybuk> *shrug* it can go back :)
[11:02] <Keybuk> and then I can wait another few weeks for a new one <g>
[11:03] <ogra> if it still works with all the liquid on it ? 
[11:04] <Keybuk> it doesn't work
[11:04] <Keybuk> well, that's not true
[11:04] <Keybuk> it worked for nearly three second
[11:04] <Keybuk> then it stopped working
[11:05] <slomo_> neuralis: when you get an answer can you write me a mail? :) slomo@ubuntu.com
[11:06] <neuralis> slomo_: sure. i'm not too hopeful (it's a lot easier to get an osx shell than to borrow lab hardware), but it's worth a try.
[11:10] <slomo_> neuralis: do you need to tell them a reason or can you just ask for hardware there? :)
[11:10] <ogra> Keybuk, i rather meant if it will work again if dried ...
[11:11] <Keybuk> ogra: no idea, it still leaks
[11:11] <Keybuk> so it'd get itself wet again pretty quickly
[11:11] <Keybuk> I'm going to suggest they just build another one, rather than trying to give me components that have already had a wash ;)
[11:12] <Keybuk> amusingly it's leaking directly onto the main bus
[11:13] <ogra> heh
[11:14] <neuralis> Keybuk: evil :)
[11:15] <Keybuk> lol, I know I would
[11:15] <Keybuk> I'd just replace the bit of leaky pipe and mop up the spillage
[11:15] <Keybuk> "if it boots, ship it back"
[11:17] <ogra> heh
[11:17] <Keybuk> oops
[11:18] <Keybuk> so that made it drench the graphics cards and switched itself off
[11:45] <ed1t> do i wanna grant "stopThread" in jre installation?
[11:46] <tiredbones> I'm getting a seg fault while upgrading to breezy from hoary. The module is python2.4-minimal, how do I work around this/
[11:47] <LadyNikon> greetings
[11:50] <LadyNikon> I am having the same issue as this :https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vpnc/+bug/29727
[11:50] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29727 in vpnc "vpnc: missing script vpnc-connect" [Normal,Unconfirmed]