[01:32] <ajmitch_> afternoon sabdfl 
[01:33] <sabdfl> hey guys
[05:43] <dieman> mjg59: yo, for your laptop stuff how can people help out with 'odd' laptops?
[05:43] <dieman> mjg59: for that brightness thing
[05:43] <dieman> that you blogged about
[05:44] <dieman> ive got a fujitsu i wouldn't mind being able to do it on :)
[06:18] <desrt> BenC; ping?
[08:15] <lucas> hi
[08:15] <zakame> heya lucas 
[08:53] <pitti> Good morning
[08:53] <freeflying> pitti: hi
[08:54] <freeflying> pitti: I've mail you what you need about scim
[08:54] <pitti> freeflying: yay, thanks
[08:58] <pitti> freeflying: just read it, awesome
[08:58] <freeflying> pitti:  :(
[08:59] <pitti> freeflying: why :( ?
[08:59] <pitti> freeflying: I'll do the new language-support packages today then
[08:59] <freeflying> s/(/)
[09:00] <freeflying> pitti: the fonts about chinese should be solved 
[09:01] <pitti> freeflying: hm, we recently changed to ttf-arphic-ukai/uming, that's not enough?
[09:02] <freeflying> pitti: cool ,thx
[09:06] <jdub> BenC: ping
[09:07] <dholbach> good morning!
[09:08] <freeflying> pitti: the seeds of dapper still use ttf-arphic-bkai00mp ,etc now 
[09:10] <pitti> freeflying: hm, indeed
[09:11] <pitti> freeflying: sorry, I thought this had already changed
[09:11] <pitti> freeflying: ok, so I throw out the 4 old ones (bkai00mp, bsmi00lp and so on) and replace them with ukai and uming?
[09:13] <freeflying> pitti: nice 
[09:13] <pitti> freeflying: that will additionally need about 11 MB of CD space
[09:14] <pitti> freeflying: what would be the advantage of ukai/uming over the current fonts?
[09:14] <pitti> freeflying: (NB that we still need to *remove* 25 MB from the CDs to get them in the right size again)
[09:14] <siretart> morning
[09:14] <pitti> hi siretart 
[09:14] <siretart> huhu pitti 
[09:14] <freeflying> pitti: ttf-arphic-gkai00mp ttf-arphic-gbsn00lp can be removed also
[09:15] <siretart> who is actually keeping track and processing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates ?
[09:15] <freeflying> pitti: uming/ukai can display chinese well then those used be 
[09:17] <dholbach> siretart: we'll have to - a list of stuff we already told James, which was removed and still is to be removed.
[09:17] <freeflying> pitti:  after remove those four fonts , no extra space need for uming/ukai at all
[09:17] <pitti> freeflying: yes, I took them into accout already; current set of fonts is 16.5 MB, ukai+uming about 24
[09:18] <pitti> ok, so it's only 8 MB more, but still
[09:18] <siretart> dholbach: I see
[09:18] <freeflying> pitti: as for scim , more space need ?
[09:19] <dholbach> siretart: We can expect him to track a wiki page.
[09:19] <siretart> dholbach: in which timeframe?
[09:19] <pitti> freeflying: yes, but scim is smaller; still, we cannot actually afford more stuff on CD
[09:19] <dholbach> siretart: timeframe?
[09:19] <pitti> freeflying: but we can throw out more language packs
[09:20] <pitti> freeflying: I'll talk with Kamion once he's back from his illness
[09:21] <freeflying> pitti: waiting for good news from you  :)
[09:23] <siretart> dholbach: In which timeframe can we expect that MorgueCandidates are actually removed?
[09:24] <dholbach> siretart: No idea, if we sent new candidates everyt two weeks - would that make sense?
[09:24] <dholbach> siretart: removing source packages doesn't sound ultra-urgent to me, does it?
[09:25] <siretart> dholbach: it should be done. I'm quite frustrated because I had an urgent removal request 3 weeks before breezy release, which got missed
[09:26] <dholbach> If we start mailing now, every two weeks that should be fine for release, no?
[09:26] <siretart> I hope se
[09:33] <Kagou> hi
[09:33] <Kagou> where can i found build logs of daily iso ?
[09:46] <siretart> dholbach: ok, I have a rather long list of packages which are on MorgueCandidates and already removed. I will remove them from there
[09:46] <dholbach> siretart: Thank you very much.
[09:48] <dholbach> There must be something wrong with lists.ubuntu.com - all the -motu posts I checked in the archive look like this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000192.html - no mail text at all. :/
[09:49] <jdub> hrm
[09:49] <jdub> and where is the sexy template?
[09:49] <jdub> Znarl: ping
[10:01] <fabbione> see
[10:01] <fabbione> i join the channel and jdub starts "sexy talk..."
[10:15] <sivang> morning all
[10:17] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:17] <dholbach> hey sivang
[10:17] <mvo> hey dholbach
[10:18] <Pygi> mornin'
[10:19] <Tm_T> oh boy, where's libortp0 from dapper
[10:23] <janimo> dholbach, hey any news on the xfce ufv exceptions?
[10:23] <dholbach> janimo: Ah, I was just looking for you on ubuntu-motu.
[10:23] <janimo> I am a lazy motu so did not show up recenmtly :)
[10:24] <dholbach> janimo: could you attach changelog diffs and diffstat?
[10:24] <janimo> I am here mostly
[10:24] <janimo> dholbach, there are ~ 20 packqages
[10:24] <janimo> I have no diffstatts either since it's a 4.2->4.3 transition
[10:24] <janimo> most are very heaviuly tweaked
[10:24] <janimo> and the debian changelog is ostly 'upstream svn snapshot'
[10:25] <janimo> mostly
[10:25] <dholbach> Could you discuss this with Matt and Colin on your own then?
[10:25] <dholbach> I meant the upstream ChangeLog.
[10:25] <janimo> dholbach, yes I will
[10:25] <dholbach> Thanks a lot.
[10:25] <seb128> hey dholbach
[10:25] <janimo> upstream is lazy and does not keep changelog, they rely on svm logs
[10:25] <dholbach> GAR!
[10:25] <janimo> I mean they update the changlog before release usually
[10:26] <dholbach> hey seb128
[10:26] <janimo> dholbach, have a nice dogwalk :)
[10:26] <dholbach> janimo: thanks
[10:26] <Pygi> seb: what's the problem with network-manager this time? :P
[10:26] <seb128> hey mvo
[10:26] <seb128> resolv.conf with no dns configured
[10:27] <seb128> and dunno if that's due to nm, but:
[10:27] <seb128> # sudo ifup eth0
[10:27] <seb128> ifup: failed to open statefile /var/run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory
[10:27] <Pygi> ah, I ussualy don't bother on GUI tools 'cause I'm used to them not working'
[10:27] <Pygi> but it should be fixed
[10:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: you can't detect whether you're on a live cd or not.  That's a feature.  I wonder if just setting a blank password would solve 30118 better.
[10:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, not even by looking at /proc/mounts or so?
[10:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think answering the question "what is a live cd" would be a good start, really.
[10:43] <jamesh> seb128: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers/ubuntu-bugzilla/20183 <- deleted the bugwatch and reimported this bug
[10:43] <seb128> jamesh: yeah, I've noticed the bunch of mail from malone, thank you :)
[10:44] <Tm_T> should I file a bug, I need libortp0 back to dapper
[10:44] <Mithrandir> jamesh: got a chance to look at debian bug #340904 ?
[10:45] <Tm_T> incoming Kopete 0.12 needs it in jabber jingle voice support
[10:45] <jamesh> Mithrandir: not yet, sorry.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> jamesh: np, just didn't get any response at all earlier, so I continued prodding.  I'll stop now.
[10:46] <janimo> Mithrandir, can the livecd kernel be passed some option if it's not started by grub?
[10:46] <jamesh> thanks for prodding :)
[10:46] <Mithrandir> janimo: it's started by syslinux/isolinux, but there's no reason why you can't boot it using grub as well.
[10:46] <Mithrandir> janimo: you mean for detecting whether this is a live cd or not?
[10:46] <janimo> yes
[10:47] <Mithrandir> well, you could look at whether /proc/cmdline contains boot=, but it's not the right fix at all
[10:47] <Mithrandir> with persistent mode, I think the live cd should behave like a real system
[10:47] <janimo> yes I mean /proc/cmdline and having syslinux and grub pass different thins there not necessarily boot but some magic kewyword
[10:47] <Mithrandir> boot=casper, I meant
[10:47] <janimo> aha
[10:48] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm testing another fix for the problem now
[11:13] <Kamion> pitti: have you seen all the Debian bugs about sudo environment variable breakage? Do they affect us too?
[11:14] <pitti> Kamion: I saw some, I'll read about them again; I talked with elmo about the katie breakages, but he said he already adapted to that
[11:14] <pitti> Kamion: but precisely for that reason I don't want to stuff that patch into stables
[11:15] <Kamion> concerns me for dapper too
[11:15] <pitti> Kamion: since we keep variables for non-restricted users, we should be less affected, though
[11:15] <Kamion> ok
[11:18] <pitti> Kamion: it's in the dapper release notes, but I think we just have to cope with a whitelist; otherwise restricted sudo does not make sense at all
[11:42] <Kinnison> What package provides the "restart required" dialog? Is it update-notifier?
[11:42] <pitti> Kinnison: yes
[11:44] <seb128> what is the bug about?
[11:45] <Kinnison> truncated restart required bubble
[11:45] <Kinnison> bug 30812
[11:45] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30812 in update-notifier ""restart required" bubble appeared truncated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30812
[11:45] <seb128> that's one for mvo :)
[11:46] <ogra> yeah, i noted that too 
[11:46] <jdub> wow, irssi pulling 83MB resident
[11:46] <jdub> guess i should clear some backlogs
[11:47] <maswan> ... or get more ram. ;P
[11:47] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30813 in synaptic "add repo dialog misnames dapper as breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30813
[11:48] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/2005-12-10/2gbit-freesoftware.html <- btw, that's final now, anything you guys want to give publicity to?
[11:48] <maswan> like sticking it on the fridge or so
[11:49] <jdub> hrm, cleared a lot of backlog, but irssi is still pulling lots of ram
[11:49] <jdub> might try its restart thingy
[11:49] <jdub> maswan: looking
[11:52] <Kinnison> wow, the distro team close bugs fast
[11:52] <Kinnison> mvo: thanks dude
[11:52] <mvo> Kinnison: thanks for reporting it :)
[11:52] <Kinnison> on glibc
[11:53] <mvo> the upgrade prompt thing?
[11:53] <mvo> I think that is reported already
[11:53] <fabbione> yeah
[11:53] <fabbione> i did
[11:54] <Kinnison> oh, I couldn't spot it
[11:55] <Kinnison> I may have to go and dupe it
[11:55] <Kinnison> hmm, related but I'm not sure they're dupes
[11:59] <jdub> maswan: whoa, nice!
[12:08] <Diziet> Cripes, we're wading in `compreg.dat' reports.
[12:09] <Kinnison> Diziet: whassat?
[12:09] <sivang> Diziet: didn't you solve / workaround that?
[12:09] <Diziet> There's something out there that creates a file called `compreg.dat'.
[12:10] <Diziet> But we don't know what it is.
[12:10] <Diziet> Whatever it is, it runs as root.  And we have to make it not do that somehow.
[12:10] <sivang> Kinnison: FFox related
[12:10] <Diziet> 30791 and its (half a dozen, at least) dupes.
[12:10] <sivang> Kinnison: FFox and dependants, I think
[12:10] <seb128> Diziet: the bunch of mails you got about that is because I asked to jamesh to import the bugzilla bug, it was not migrated because there was a launchpad task pointing on it before the migration
[12:10] <Diziet> Ahh.
[12:11] <seb128> ie: those are not new bugs we have got recently
[12:11] <seb128> and the import updated all the duplicates to point to that one
[12:11] <Diziet> Hmm.  I'm not sure I really want to assume^Whope that it has just vanished.  But I'm really stuck for a way to diagnose it.
[12:11] <seb128> we didn't get any complain for it for some time
[12:12] <seb128> but I think there is not a lot of people who do breezy to dapper updates at the moment
[12:12] <Diziet> When there are I'm sure it will show up again.
[12:12] <seb128> most people did them some time ago to track dapper or will do when dapper is stable
[12:12] <jdub> maswan: published :-)
[12:12] <seb128> probably :/
[12:12] <Diziet> I suppose perhaps we can get testers to do that evil thing I suggested.
[12:13] <seb128> Diziet: I'll do that next time I do a 5.10 install/dist-upgrade to dapper
[12:13] <seb128> but I didn't get the issue previous time I did that
[12:13] <WaterSevenUb> hey. which package provides the installation splash screen?
[12:14] <Diziet> seb128: Yes, same here.  Very frustrating.  Thanks.
[12:15] <maswan> jdub: thanks :)
[12:18] <mvo> Diziet: I found the reason for the compreg.dat I think. it seems to be created by gtkmozembed in gnome-app-install
[12:20] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: which splash screen?
[12:21] <Diziet> mvo: Oh !  So do you have a recipe to reproduce it ?
[12:21] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, dapper installation, first screen, f2 language, accessibility, etc...
[12:21] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: various things cooperate to create that, but mostly gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[12:21] <sivang> Kamion: are you working on a graphical boot loader? (Saw a bit about it in the last sprint report)
[12:21] <Kamion> sivang: already done
[12:21] <Kamion> try e.g. the last Flight CD
[12:22] <mvo> Diziet: in a breezy chroot, rm compreg.dat (if it is there already), run sudo gnome-app-install, check if the file is there again
[12:22] <Kamion> or the one before that for that matter ...
[12:22] <Diziet> Oh, that simple !
[12:22] <JaneW> hi all. Does anybody know what (if any) efforts are being made to support Ubuntu for IntelMac
[12:22] <JaneW> I have a journo asking, and he has asked Red Hat; Suse; Mandriva etc
[12:23] <mjg59> JaneW: Right now, none - I don't think any of us have the hardware
[12:23] <mvo> Diziet: if you want to do it in dapper I need to send you a small patch to make g-a-i work with pymozembed again (but it will crash, so it may spoil the fun)
[12:23] <mjg59> JaneW: But at the moment, there's no way of supporting the graphics, so it's a bit of a moot point
[12:23] <Diziet> mvo: That explains why the reports have stopped coming, too.
[12:23] <JaneW> know if there are plans for it for Dapper +1
[12:24] <JaneW> the guy is reporting for Computerworld magazine
[12:24] <mjg59> JaneW: I'm certainly interested in supporting the laptops as quickly as possible
[12:24] <tseng> JaneW: if redhat drops the appropriate code soon, it would be a non-issue
[12:24] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, thx. I was trying to figure out why when we select other language via F2, the main menu options do not appear translated.
[12:24] <mjg59> JaneW: But we're blocked on graphics hardware support
[12:24] <tseng> JaneW: (not that i would quote that)
[12:24] <JaneW> mjg59: what's the issue with it?
[12:24] <mjg59> JaneW: It's a 
[12:24] <JaneW> can we come up with an official stance?
[12:24] <mjg59> n entirely new graphics chipset, and we can't drive it
[12:25] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: no infrastructure for translating the main menu options yet, sorry
[12:25] <JaneW> oic
[12:25] <Kamion> JaneW: ATI need to release the specifications
[12:25] <mvo> Diziet: yes, that was the clue that I needed
[12:25] <mjg59> JaneW: And it's unlikely that the Apples have VESA BIOSes, so we can't use the vesa driver
[12:25] <mjg59> (Of course, having the hardware would make checking this quite a bit easier)
[12:25] <JaneW> "Red Hat says contrary to earlier reports, there's no official plans now; Suse says it's going to wait for the community to bring them a working ELILO dual-boot loader, essentially; Mandriva says it's working on something in-house and hopes to have something ready by Q2.  
[12:25] <JaneW> "
[12:25] <mjg59> Kamion: For 2D, it'll be fairly easy to reverse engineer
[12:25] <Kamion> in the event that they *do* have VESA BIOSes then we'll be fine, ish
[12:26] <ogra> additionallywe dont know about the boot procedure of these things ... i heard they have no supportable BIOS ...
[12:26] <Treenaks> ogra: they have EFI
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: it's EFI, which is like ia64
[12:26] <tseng> ogra: "working elilo boot loader"
[12:26] <mjg59> JaneW: But in any case, without any of the developers having any of the hardware, we're not going anywhere :)
[12:26] <ogra> ah, k
[12:26] <ogra> mjg59, another laptop for your collection ? :)
[12:27] <Treenaks> Speaking of ATi.. I still have 2 bugs open on the current driver :(
[12:27] <Treenaks> one for the LaptopTestingTeam laptop
[12:27] <Treenaks> s/the/my/
[12:27] <jbailey> Kinnison: glibc work won't start until later today to give Celso time to hunt a Soyuz bug. =)
[12:28] <jbailey> Kinnison: (I don't want to destroy the evidence)
[12:29] <Kinnison> evidence?
[12:29] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: if you're keen to translate something, I'd love to have at least *one* translation of installer/build/boot/x86/help.pot in the debian-installer source package, so that I can make sure the translation infrastructure for that works
[12:29] <Kamion> that will give you a translated help menu
[12:30] <jbailey> Kinnison: bug 30621
[12:30] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30621 in malone "glibc changelog seems to list two versions and have eaten a line for the changelog" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30621
[12:30] <jbailey> Ah, perhaps he's finished with it now.
[12:30] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, let me have a look.
[12:30] <jbailey> Ubugtu: Lier.
[12:30] <jbailey> liar, rather.
[12:31] <jbailey> I wonder where I file bugs against Ubugtu.
[12:31] <jbailey> Ah, well.  Exercise time first.
[12:33] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/ and http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing-ports/ are working again now
[12:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ^-- since you were asking for them
[12:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: \o/  thanks
[12:34] <Mithrandir> ooh, ubuntu-desktop seems installable.  Is the debootstrap problem fixed so I can roll images?
[12:34] <sivang> Kamion: cool, it both usable on CD boots as on HD boots?
[12:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I fixed the publisher, dunno about debootstrap itself yet
[12:35] <ogra> doko, any news about zope3/schooltool ? 
[12:35] <Kamion> sivang: only CD
[12:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: heading towards the archive now
[12:35] <ogra> (i need it to make edubuntu-server (and the CDs) work)
[12:35] <dholbach> ogra: jinty
[12:35] <Kamion> but there's still the vim-runtime priority bug which will break image building
[12:35] <Kamion> 10:07 < Kamion> elmo: please make vim-runtime Priority: important, sorta urgent
[12:35] <ogra> dholbach, yes, but doko was already in contact with him
[12:39] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, yeah, it seems easy. Just a stupid question, where can I access this help menu in the installation?
[12:39] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: F1 on a VERY current CD image
[12:39] <Kamion> like, today's
[12:39] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, 8Feb :-p
[12:39] <WaterSevenUb> :)
[12:39] <Kamion> try pressing F1 then
[12:40] <Kamion> oh, probably not a new enough d-i on it or something
[12:40] <Kamion> in that case you can't access it yet; tough :)
[12:40] <WaterSevenUb> i've already tried...
[12:40] <WaterSevenUb> yape:) That's problematic to test the translation :)
[12:40] <JaneW> Kamion: can I say we expect support to be avilable in the Dapper+1 time frame? (IntelMac)
[12:41] <Kamion> JaneW: I don't think we can promise anything
[12:41] <mjg59> JaneW: It's /possible/ (though not likely) that it could be done in the Dapper time frame
[12:41] <Kamion> if it's closed hardware then we're stuffed until magic appears
[12:41] <mjg59> But right now, it's impossible to know how long it is
[12:41] <mjg59> Kamion: The graphics stuff isn't going to be a blocker for long
[12:41] <JaneW> ok I'll be suitably vague ;)
[12:41] <mjg59> Kamion: There's way too much incentive to get that fixed
[12:41] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: yes, sorry, I'm happy for a contributed translation to be untested
[12:41] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, will do it. ok:)
[12:42] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah, but at the same time we really ought not to promise things that aren't entirely in our control
[12:43] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: meh, current d-i failed to build because of locales crap shifting around under me
[12:44] <Kamion> I'll sort that out
[12:44] <JaneW> thanks guys
[12:49] <irvin> hi all
[01:51] <Riddell> Kamion: could you promote these source packages to main?  scim skim scim-qtimm im-switch anthy; and these binary: anthy im-switch libanthy0 libscim8c2a libskim0 scim scim-qtimm skim
[01:52] <Kamion> Riddell: I cannot do promotions at the moment, sorry.
[01:52] <Kamion> ask elmo
[01:52] <Kamion> (I suggest mail)
[01:52] <Riddell> ok
[01:58] <HiddenWolf> yay, there was finally a conclusion to the input-debate? :)
[02:04] <lucas> what's the problem with elmo ? He seems to have a huge backlog regarding sync requests
[02:04] <lucas> he is still ill ?
[02:07] <dholbach> lucas: try to tame your tongue a bit. "what's the problem with elmo?" is not appropriate at all.
[02:09] <dholbach> lucas: You're speaking about a person - keep that in mind.
[02:09] <tseng> lucas: he did just spend the last weeks slaving to move the archive to launchpad.
[02:10] <Kamion> lucas: the fact that folks including elmo are still very busy rewriting ftpmaster tools to work with launchpad is relevant; individual sync requests are much less important
[02:11] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: ping
[02:19] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Hi
[02:20] <lucas> dholbach: sorry, my fault. the french equivalent of " what's the problem with <sbody> ?" is ok
[02:20] <lucas> Kamion: ok
[02:21] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: Hi.
[02:21] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: pitti and seb128 referred me to you.
[02:22] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: I'm having an issue that when watching a movie fullscreen in totem, my monitor goes to standby. I'm guessing this is because g-p-m overrules totem/screensaver and sends the monitor to sleep.
[02:22] <ogra> HiddenWolf, plesae file a bug on totem
[02:22] <seb128> ogra: why?
[02:23] <siretart> Kamion: I completly agree that James has more important things to do than processing sync requests. Anyway, is it really necessary that he does all syncs himself? can't this be delegated to someone with more ressources?
[02:23] <ogra> gnome-screensaver respects the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN_ setting afaik 
[02:23] <ogra> seb128, ^^^
[02:23] <ogra> the app should set it
[02:23] <seb128> the issue is not gnome-screensaver
[02:23] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I did that yesterday, and hadess replied with "NOTMYPROBLEM"
[02:23] <seb128> totem speaks with gnome-screensaver by dbus and that works fine
[02:23] <ogra> seb128, exactly, the issue is the app not setting the state
[02:24] <seb128> the issue is not the screensaver starting but the screen going to standby
[02:24] <ogra> then i wonder what the wm--spec is written for
[02:24] <ogra> oops, i didnt get that above .... ignore me 
[02:25] <Kamion> siretart: my understanding is that it will be once the relevant launchpad code is written
[02:26] <Kamion> siretart: for now, delegation has the ultimate effect of creating more work for James because he still has to keep track of which sync requests other people have randomly picked up and ensure that all of them get done; that's why he asked mdz and me not to do them
[02:26] <seb128> ogra: _NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN
[02:26] <seb128> ogra: according to xprop
[02:27] <seb128> ogra: totem does use the wm-spec, you should try before ranting on apps not following a spec
[02:27] <ogra> seb128, yes, i guess g-p-m needs a patch
[02:27] <siretart> Kamion: I'm a bit concerned that the releavant spec has priorty 'NOTFORUS': https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+spec/package-source-management . This indicates that changing the current process is not a priority
[02:27] <ogra> seb128, i haver bugs about totem-xine, i mixed that up
[02:27] <seb128> ogra: note that fullscreen is probably a windowmanager issue and not an app one
[02:28] <ogra> seb128, but movie players shoud set the state, no ? 
[02:28] <Kamion> siretart: I don't think that has much bearing on reality
[02:28] <Kamion> frankly
[02:28] <siretart> I hope se. really
[02:28] <siretart> s/se/so/
[02:28] <Kamion> given that e.g. a basic reimplementation of the sync tool for use with launchpad has already been written
[02:28] <siretart> ah, thats good to hear.
[02:29] <Kamion> also, it's entirely legitimate for the soyuz team to put process improvements below bringing soyuz up to par with the process implemented in katie
[02:29] <Kamion> I have no complaints with them doing so
[02:30] <seb128> ogra: dunno what they should do, but according to xprop it has "_NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN" and it speaks by dbus to gnome-screensaver so that's probably not an app bug
[02:30] <ogra> seb128, as i said above, g-p-m needs a patch to respect this ...
[02:31] <siretart> /me neither. 
[02:31] <ogra> (i wonder why dbus is needed if the X atom is set)
[02:31] <ogra> isnt that duplication ? 
[02:31] <Mithrandir> because there's no such thing as just using a single hammer?  Be sure to use the whole array of options.
[02:31] <janimo> Kamion, I talked to dholbach about bulk approval of updating to xfce 4.3 and related UVF exception (the one I asked for in advance in the TB meeting of Jan 17th)
[02:31] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <janimo> he said I talk to you or mdz since these are apporved for main pending promotion so not MOTU territory
[02:32] <seb128> dunno exactly how gnome-screensaver work, I guess that the dbus dialog is when using it without fullscreen
[02:32] <ogra> ah, that'd make sense
[02:32] <janimo> and also because there's no diffstat/changelog it's basically ~20 packages from a new development line
[02:32] <seb128> and anyway why a fullscreen should stop the screensaver?
[02:32] <seb128> you can pause a movie for some hour
[02:32] <janimo> so could either you or mdz approve uploading them
[02:32] <seb128> the screen should standy then
[02:32] <ogra> because you dont want it to pop in while watching a movie
[02:33] <seb128> fullscreen doesn't indicate you watch anything
[02:33] <janimo> they're stable enough and soon to become 4.4
[02:33] <ogra> but its likely that you watch something ...
[02:33] <Kamion> janimo: please send e-mail about this with a description of the changes
[02:33] <Kamion> to me and mdz
[02:34] <Kamion> we don't typically do approvals of large changes by IRC
[02:34] <ogra> even if its only a audion vizulazation plugin
[02:34] <janimo> Kamion, will do thanks
[02:34] <seb128> ogra: why? some people have a command line in full screen, some other have a text editor open in fullscreen, etc
[02:35] <ogra> seb128, i'm not talking about terminals ... only about players
[02:35] <seb128> the wm-spec doesn't say what kind of app you are using, does it?
[02:35] <ogra> and i think its very likely you want to watch if totem runs fullscreen
[02:35] <ogra> nope
[02:36] <seb128> so how is gnome-screensaver supposed to know?
[02:36] <ogra> but as you pointed out, totem already uses it
[02:36] <ogra> and g-s-s respects it ...
[02:36] <azeem> seb128: you don't run editors full screen usually, only maximized
[02:36] <ogra> lets just make g-p-m work the same way
[02:37] <ogra> no need to discuss it to death :)
[02:37] <seb128> azeem: it was a random example to point that not only player have a full screen option
[02:37] <seb128> you can open a pdf fullscreen to read it if you prefer the example
[02:38] <seb128> that should not prevent the screen to go standby if you run away an hour
[02:38] <torkel> azeem: hitting F11 in the latest gnome-terminal runs it in fullscreen :-)
[02:38] <azeem> torkel: ugh
[02:38] <seb128> azeem: same for epiphany, same for evince
[02:38] <seb128> that's pretty standard GNOME behaviour
[02:38] <seb128> why "ugh"?
[02:38] <pitti> ogra: speaking of the screen saver, would it be possible to not activate it after resuming from sleep?
[02:39] <pitti> ogra: it doesn't lock the display anyway, so no point
[02:39] <azeem> seb128: I see the point for evince (doing pdf presentations e.g.), but not for the terminal, but that is besides the point anyway
[02:39] <azeem> the question is rather: Does the window content change?
[02:39] <azeem> if I sit before a terminal and watch a compile pass by, I'd be annoyed when the screensaver kicks in
[02:39] <ogra> pitti, we had a discussion in hoary that resulted in the locking ...
[02:40] <azeem> if I just leave a blinking prompt, no problem
[02:40] <ogra> pitti, not sure if we should change behavior here
[02:40] <seb128> azeem: the screensaver has no information like "the window details are changing"
[02:40] <ogra> pitti, i'd rather have it locking 
[02:40] <pitti> ogra: it should either lock or not start the saver at all, but right now it's quite pointless IMHO
[02:40] <seb128> azeem: that's why the app speaks by dbus to it
[02:41] <pitti> ogra: can this be configured then? I'm quite annoyed of locked screens if I didn't ask for it, and if I want to lock, I can do that explicitly
[02:41] <ogra> pitti, yes, i'll look at it ... i'd like to keep the behavior we had in breezy and before for this ... users will expect it to behave the same
[02:41] <pitti> ogra: full ack
[02:41] <Mithrandir> I think we should have something so a window can say "I have activity in me", whether it be a movie player, a phone application or something else.  And in addition, you'd want to monitor keyboard and mouse, possibly others as well
[02:42] <ogra> pitti, can you check if "require password" is set for you in g-p-m's gconf settings ? 
[02:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: there is a dbus interface to say "hang on, I don't want you to standy anything"
[02:42] <seb128> standby anything
[02:42] <pitti> ogra: in some minutes, I'm just booting the live cd
[02:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's what totem does by example
[02:42] <ogra> oki
[02:43] <pitti> ogra: but actually, yes, I'll check in in the live as well; I might have changed the configuration in my ~
[02:43] <azeem> are libnotify events propagated to the screenserver, so people see (through a blinking icon in a corner, perhaps) that there is something they possibly want to tend to?
[02:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: that requires a lot of applications to use dbus.
[02:43] <ogra> pitti, thanks
[02:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: what other way would you like to use? setting a wm property and making apps using it?
[02:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: something like that.  LAST_ACTIVITY or something.
[02:43] <ogra> seb128, yes
[02:43] <Mithrandir> which is a timestamp.
[02:44] <seb128> that would work fine yep
[02:44] <infinity> Someone may want to ping daniels. About 3 months ago, he hacked mplayer, xscreensaver, and some other stuff to do a root window hack to record when the screensaver should and shouldn't come on.
[02:44] <infinity> And then never uploaded it.
[02:44] <infinity> Adapting the patch to gnome-screensaver would be trivial.
[02:44] <seb128> ah, nice
[02:44] <ogra> cool
[02:44] <Mithrandir> I'm wondering if it should be per-window or not.
[02:44] <seb128> no need
[02:45] <infinity> Mithrandir: It's a root ewindow property that records the window ID of the window that doesn't want to be saved.
[02:45] <Mithrandir> no, I can't see a need either.
[02:45] <infinity> Mithrandir: So when the screensaver checks to see if it should come on, it reads the root hint, checks to see if the listed windows still exist (this saved you from crashing mplayers), then acts accordingly.
[02:45] <Mithrandir> infinity: I was thinking of changing it slightly so you'd just touch a property which counted as activity in the eyes of the screensaver.
[02:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: See the bit about crashing media players.
[02:46] <infinity> Mithrandir: The property won't get unset in that case.
[02:46] <Mithrandir> so?  It's a timestamp
[02:46] <Mithrandir> so N seconds after your mplayer has crashed, the screensaver comes on.
[02:46] <infinity> A timestamp that you update every few seconds/minutes while playing a movie?  Fragile.
[02:46] <Mithrandir> (since it's no longer being updated)
[02:46] <Mithrandir> what's fragile about that?
[02:46] <infinity> How often do you update it?
[02:47] <infinity> Each application would have its own idea of what's appropriate, and each user (like freaks who set their screensaver to come on in 60 seconds.. <stare>) would have their own idea.
[02:47] <Mithrandir> every ten seconds?
[02:47] <azeem> infinity: you would query screensaver about its timeout value, and then choose something smaller ;)
[02:47] <infinity> The other way (set it once, unset it when you're done) works better, IMO.
[02:47] <Mithrandir> how do you support multiple applications which may or may not want the screensaver to come on?
[02:47] <Mithrandir> like, ekiga.
[02:48] <infinity> I'm not sure I understand the question.
[02:48] <infinity> You mave multiple applications open, they've all added their window IDs to the root hint.
[02:48] <Mithrandir> I'd like the screensaver not to go on while I'm talking on the phone, even though I'm not pounding the keyboard.
[02:48] <infinity> They remove their IDs one by one as they decide they don't want to interrupt the screensaver anymore.
[02:48] <Mithrandir> how do you prevent the race condition therein?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> (since afaik X properties are get + set, not "change"?)
[02:50] <infinity> get+set is only a theoretical race in my world.  Unless you can start two movies and a phone in a few thousand CPU cycles.
[02:50] <infinity> You click faster than I do.
[02:50] <Mithrandir> I run remote X apps once in a while
[02:51] <pitti> ogra: bah, g-p-m is not installed on the latest ppc live that I have :(
[02:51] <infinity> Still not seeing the issue.
[02:51] <Mithrandir> get + set can then take a lot more time.
[02:51] <infinity> Remote apps set the root window hint on your local root... Which your (local or remote) screensaver will check.
[02:51] <Mithrandir> sure
[02:51] <infinity> Oh, I suppose it can take more time, but not so much.
[02:51] <Mithrandir> but the race widens
[02:52] <ogra> pitti, it went into -desktop very recently 
[02:52] <infinity> Anyhow, I suggest one of the desktop guys ping daniels about his patches, and go from there.  My only interest was in having mplayer and xine not be retarded about screensavers.
[02:52] <Mithrandir> I just think the "update timestamp" to simulate activity is prettier.
[02:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, we *could* not show the 'and enter your password' bit if / is a unionfs
[02:52] <infinity> (They do hackish things like simulate keystrokes to fake out the swcreensaver which seems to not work reliably)
[02:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: ewwwwww
[02:53] <ogra> guys, please dont discuss such features if youre not willing to implement it :P i'm swamped in ltsp work ...
[02:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: tell me something better :)
[02:53] <infinity> ogra: The one daniels wrote is implemented, just that the code isn't in the archive.  Like I said, ping him (or get seb or dholbach to)
[02:53] <ogra> ...and edubuntu ... and g-p-m
[02:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: alternatively we just drop the 'and enter your password' completely
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: we'll have a manpage soon anyway
[02:54] <ogra> infinity, its a hack for xscreensaver which we dont use anymore
[02:54] <dholbach> infinity: good night.
[02:54] <pitti> sleep well infinity 
[02:54] <ogra> will surely need a lot adjustment
[02:54] <ogra> night infinity 
[02:54] <mvo> night infinity
[02:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm going to fix it to just work correctly, I think.
[02:54] <infinity> ogra: The hack will port easily, I'm sure.  If not, send it to me.  I just don't have his patches in front of me.
[02:54] <ogra> oki
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: fix what?
[02:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: actually, is there any reason why gss can't query pam whether "" as its password would succeed and if so DTRT?
[02:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: erm, I'm speaking about the sudo message, not gss
[02:56] <pitti> yes, g-s-s needs to be fixed differently
[02:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh, yes, just drop the "and enter your password" since the user should be able to understand what "password" means in that context anyway.
[02:57] <pitti> true
[02:58] <Keybuk> before my amd64 committed hari-kari, I discovered that Windows takes just 2s to boot on it ... damn we have some work to do
[02:58] <ogra> go ahead :)
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: I can't find an appropriate gconf key that contols the locking after suspend
[02:59] <pitti> Keybuk: you mean 2 s until the login screen appears?
[03:00] <pitti> Keybuk: wow, I saw it boot in some 20 seconds on older boxes, but 2 s is indeed impressive
[03:01] <pitti> To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>."
[03:01] <pitti> See "man ubuntu_root" for details.
[03:01] <pitti> ^folks, that should be better than the previous help text. any ideas for further improvements?
[03:01] <pitti> maybe s/details/help/
[03:01] <ogra> pitti, its in /apps/gnome-power-manager/general
[03:01] <Keybuk> pitti: no, 2s until desktop
[03:01] <Kamion> not "ubuntu_root", I don't fancy branding that for kubuntu/edubuntu
[03:01] <pitti> Keybuk: boggle
[03:01] <Keybuk> it'd been pre-setup to login automatically I think
[03:01] <pitti> Kamion: sudo_root?
[03:01] <ogra> pitti, called require_password
[03:02] <Kamion> pitti: better, certainly
[03:02] <pitti> ogra: ENOSUCHKEY
[03:02] <ogra> uh ? 
[03:02] <ogra> hmm
[03:02] <infinity> Keybuk: That's a heack of a lot faster than Zofia's XP installation.  And your machine can't be THAT much faster.  Does it have everything under the sun disabled?
[03:02] <Keybuk> infinity: no idea, sadly everything is kinda disabled by the coolant system leaking ;)
[03:02] <Keybuk> I'll tell you when I get the replacement <g.
[03:03] <ogra> infinity, fresh installs of XP are that fast ...
[03:03] <ogra> if you installed the first app on it it slows down like hell
[03:03] <pitti> well, they rather boot everything non-essential in the background, right?
[03:03] <infinity> ogra: Oh, I know they're fast (and hers is ripe and due for a rebuild), but I've never seen 2 seconds to desktop.
[03:03] <freeflying> sorry for bother you , https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5981 still need be solved 
[03:03] <ogra> i cant remember my last *fresh* XP ...
[03:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5981 in openoffice.org2 "OOo crashes when input chinese" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:04] <ogra> but my GFs XP boots slower than breezy here
[03:04] <infinity> pitti: Most of the services they can get away with starting late, they do, but there's still a fair few things to bring up before GINA (the security subsystem, ie: "the login box") can kick in.
[03:05] <infinity> They also seem to pull some tricks to reduce I/O bandwidth to anything started in the background.
[03:05] <HiddenWolf> ogra: my XP is faster than my dapper by a mile still.
[03:05] <infinity> So they don't have the complete lack of responsiveness that we do when logging in with the world eating our disks in the background.
[03:06] <HiddenWolf> ogra: that said, it's not much used.
[03:06] <infinity> (takes longer for it all to start, but feels snappier while it's doing so)
[03:06] <ogra> HiddenWolf, my GF has a hell lot of stuff installed ...
[03:06] <tseng> ogra: are you talking from boot to login, or boot to desktop
[03:06] <tseng> most of the end-user crap starts after login
[03:07] <tseng> and why oh why would compaq make laptop keyboards where Ctrl is smaller than a letter key
[03:08] <ogra> tseng, boot to login
[03:08] <ogra> she has no autologin enabled
[03:09] <tseng> boot to login on my canonical laptop is blazing fast with xp pro
[03:16] <seb128> Keybuk: around?
[03:16] <Keybuk> seb128: yup
[03:17] <seb128> Keybuk: since today I've no DNS listed to /etc/resolv.conf on my box (using network-manager)
[03:17] <seb128> what package is to blame?
[03:17] <Keybuk> no DNS?  that's usually written by dhclient
[03:17] <Keybuk> check you don't have resolvconf installed
[03:17] <seb128> the file has 
[03:18] <seb128> "# generated by NetworkManager, do not edit!"
[03:18] <seb128> and nothing else
[03:18] <Keybuk> yeah, nm likes to add that comment and lots of blank lines
[03:18] <Keybuk> hmm
[03:18] <Keybuk> I've disabled all that stuff in my package here, it doesn't seem to do anything for us
[03:18] <seb128> un  resolvconf     <nant>       (aucune description n'est disponible)
[03:18] <Keybuk> dhclient should be writing /etc/resolv.conf though
[03:19] <Keybuk> check syslog
[03:20] <jpatrick> mako: ping?
[03:20] <jdub> seb128: whoa, that's a terrible bug
[03:21] <seb128> I don't use a dhcp on that box usually
[03:21] <seb128> I've a fixed IP list by /etc/network/interfaces and the DNS where written to /etc/resolv.conf
[03:21] <seb128> s/where/were
[03:21] <seb128> it seems that something destroy my "by hand made" resolv.conf, and I tend to blame network-manager since it put a comment to it
[03:21] <Keybuk> oh, that's probably n-m destroying it then
[03:22] <jdub> seb128: no, the bug with all that french output!
[03:23] <mako> jpatrick: yes
[03:23] <jpatrick> mako: it's about my membership
[03:23] <Keybuk> n-m and static configuration don't appear to be friends
[03:25] <seb128> Keybuk: and do you know about that?
[03:25] <seb128> $ sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
[03:25] <seb128>  * Reconfiguring network interfaces... ifdown: failed to open statefile /var/run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory
[03:25] <seb128> ifup: failed to open statefile /var/run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory
[03:25] <Keybuk> huh?
[03:25] <Keybuk> where's your ifstate file
[03:25] <seb128> good question
[03:25] <seb128> seems I've none
[03:25] <Keybuk> was your card even ifup'd ?
[03:25] <Keybuk> sounds like it wasn't
[03:26] <seb128> eth1      Lien encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:40:05:5E:A8:68
[03:26] <seb128>           inet adr:192.168.0.2  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Masque:255.255.255.0
[03:26] <seb128>           adr inet6: fe80::240:5ff:fe5e:a868/64 Scope:Lien
[03:26] <Keybuk> and sounds like n-m is playing the "do ifup/down's job for it" game
[03:26] <Keybuk> ahh
[03:26] <Keybuk> right
[03:26] <seb128> and I'm IRCing from that computer
[03:26] <Keybuk> so I know what's happening here
[03:26] <Keybuk> 1) your card isn't being ifup'd during boot
[03:26] <Keybuk> 2) n-m is bringing up your card by parsing /e/n/i (this code is being removed)
[03:26] <Keybuk> 3) and stomping all over your resolv.conf
[03:26] <Keybuk> and that's why ifdown is failing
[03:27] <Keybuk> so ... paste your /e/n/i somewhere
[03:29] <seb128> Keybuk: k, brb, just restarting to try something first
[03:29] <zul> heylo
[03:30] <Kamion> Kinnison: hooray for automatic d-i processing that worked
[03:31] <mdz> pitti: how did the langpack update go?  everything OK with the new key authentication under launchpad?
[03:31] <pitti> mdz: I just uploaded a couple of language-support packages
[03:32] <mdz> pitti: oh, I see
[03:32] <pitti> mdz: so, I don't know whether the langpack key is indeed still restricted to language-* packages
[03:32] <mdz> pitti: so those were just signed with your personal key
[03:32] <pitti> mdz: no, they used the langpack builder key
[03:32] <mdz> pitti: it's not restricted, but it should work
[03:32] <mdz> pitti: please let me know when you test it
[03:32] <mdz> pitti: oh?
[03:32] <mdz> ok then
[03:32] <mdz> so it works ;-)
[03:32] <pitti> yes, I built them the usual way
[03:32] <pitti> apparently :)
[03:33] <pitti> mdz: I added some scim modules, so we now get OOTB input support for Asian languages
[03:33] <pitti> mdz: hm, that might be worth to be noted on the release notes
[03:33] <pitti> s/on/in/
[03:34] <mdz> pitti: yes, please add it
[03:35] <Riddell> mako: jpatrick is around if you are able to consider his ubuntu membership
[03:35] <janimo> Kamion,  bug 30320 is similar to what I had in flight 3. I remember infinity fixed that shortly after I reported
[03:35] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30320 in debian-installer "daily of Jan 27 does not install on hp nx8220" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30320
[03:37] <seb128> Keybuk: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/544975
[03:37] <Kamion> Feb  2 16:20:57 debootstrap: Cannot find /lib/modules/2.6.15-14-386
[03:37] <Kamion> probably just out-of-sync kernel modules or something
[03:37] <Yagisan> pitti: which asian languages ? and do you have a link to an iso - I'd love to have decent support for all my gnome/kde/x11 apps
[03:38] <Kamion> dunno though, Adam will have to look at it
[03:38] <seb128> Keybuk: and when I start nm-applet I've no connexion picked, it should probably use the only available one rather than requiring me to click on it
[03:38] <Keybuk> seb128: try "ifconfig eth1 down" ... then "ifup --allow-auto eth1" and see whether that works
[03:38] <Keybuk> seb128: also check your eth1 is really eth1, and not eth0 suddenly :)
[03:38] <pitti> Yagisan: we won't ship them on the CDs, they are just too big
[03:38] <seb128> Keybuk: I've 2 card but the first one is broken (and the corresponding line is greyed)
[03:38] <pitti> Yagisan: look at dapper-changes for the set of language-support packages I updated
[03:39] <pitti> Yagisan: or the last bzr commit in langpack-o-matic :)
[03:39] <Yagisan> pitti: :'( not on cd
[03:39] <seb128> Keybuk: 
[03:39] <seb128> $ sudo ifup --allow=auto eth1
[03:39] <seb128> ifup: failed to open statefile /var/run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory
[03:39] <Keybuk> ok...
[03:39] <Keybuk> seb128: sudo /etc/init.d/loopback start
[03:39] <Keybuk> then try it
[03:40] <seb128> $ sudo ifup --allow=auto eth1
[03:40] <seb128> Error : Temporary failure in name resolution
[03:40] <seb128> run-parts: /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate exited with return code 1
[03:40] <seb128> 
[03:40] <seb128> that works, eth1 is up/configured
[03:40] <seb128> but something nuked the dns again :p
[03:41] <seb128> (I've nm-applet running)
[03:44] <torkel> nm-applet nukes resolv.conf
[03:45] <Keybuk> right, yeah
[03:46] <Keybuk> interesting that it didn't get configured during startup though
[03:46] <seb128> yeah, I wonder why
[03:46] <Keybuk> you have /etc/udev/rules.d/85-ifupdown.rules ?
[03:47] <seb128> yep
[03:47] <seb128> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/544985
[03:49] <jdub> oh yeah, *.pastebin.com
[03:49] <Keybuk> is that space really there?
[03:49] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: ping?
[03:49] <mdz> ?
[03:49] <seb128> Keybuk: no, it's a copy error from the command line
[03:49] <fabbione> mdz: i need a permanent UVF exception for redhat-cluster-suite (same as we did for breezy)
[03:50] <mdz> fabbione: why?
[03:50] <fabbione> mdz: i am pulling changes only from their STABLE CVS branch.
[03:50] <Keybuk> seb128: ok ... I'd guess it's just n-m fucking up
[03:50] <Keybuk> but still no idea why you're missing ifstate
[03:50] <Keybuk> you have /etc/rcS.d/S08loopback ?
[03:50] <fabbione> mdz: basically importing the fixes in debian/patches or making a new CVS snapshot is the same.
[03:50] <fabbione> mdz: the latter is easier for me
[03:50] <fabbione> mdz: and it has the same result
[03:50] <seb128> Keybuk: yep, and lo is correctly set up on boot
[03:51] <fabbione> mdz: it's purely cosmetic in the package version
[03:51] <mdz> fabbione: sure, but you can always ask
[03:51] <fabbione> mdz: sure. if there is something more than bugfixes i will notify
[03:51] <fabbione> mdz: but on the stable branch is RARE
[03:51] <seb128> Keybuk: should I file a bug about the resolv.conf issue?
[03:51] <Keybuk> seb128: *boggle* how can you have lo but not /var/run/network -- they're made in the same script!
[03:51] <Keybuk> seb128: sure
[03:52] <torkel> seb128: I think it is already filed
[03:52] <seb128> that I'm wondering
[04:12] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't reproduce the ifstate bug now
[04:12] <seb128> Keybuk: but the dns screwage is easy, drop the nm-applet comment line, and pick you static eth interface from the applet
[04:13] <seb128> it overwrites /etc/resolv.conf with its comment
[04:13] <seb128> (and some extra blank lines after that)
[04:14] <seb128> and it doesn't update ifstate, which makes that too:
[04:14] <seb128> $ sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
[04:14] <seb128>  * Reconfiguring network interfaces... SIOCADDRT: File exists
[04:14] <seb128> Failed to bring up eth1.
[04:14] <seb128> $ cat /var/run/network/ifstate
[04:14] <seb128> lo=lo
[04:14] <seb128> $
[04:18] <Keybuk> *blink*
[04:18] <Keybuk> see, you're still not getting eth1 coming up on boot!
[04:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: rock on
[04:19] <seb128> Keybuk: that's right, and I wonder why
[04:19] <seb128> but that's a different issue of the ifstatus missing I had before
[04:20] <Keybuk> indeed
[04:20] <Keybuk> curious
[04:20] <seb128> eth1 is listed by ifconfig in fact
[04:20] <seb128> it's just not configured
[04:20] <Keybuk> can you try booting without logging in to X for me?
[04:20] <Keybuk> and IRC from a vt
[04:21] <seb128> sure
[04:27] <seb128> Keybuk: k, I'm not logged in
[04:28] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, can you cat /var/run/network/ifstate now for me?
[04:28] <seb128> lo=lo
[04:29] <Keybuk> ok, and ifconfig says that eth1 isn't up?
[04:29] <seb128> ifconfig lists it but with no IP
[04:29] <seb128> ie: it's up but not configured
[04:29] <Keybuk> it's UP?
[04:29] <seb128> ifconfig
[04:29] <seb128> ...
[04:29] <seb128> eth1 .. blabla
[04:29] <seb128> ie: it's listed
[04:29] <Keybuk> uh, the blah blah is a bit important
[04:30] <seb128> Link encap...
[04:30] <seb128> UP BROADCAST...
[04:30] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[04:30] <seb128> no inet line
[04:30] <Keybuk> lazy frelling germans :p
[04:30] <Keybuk> TYPE IT ALL :)
[04:30] <ogra> hey
[04:30] <seb128> hum, brb, I'll IRC from an another box and ssh, it's faster :)
[04:31] <Keybuk> hehe
[04:31] <ogra> :)
[04:31] <ogra> doko, !
[04:32] <ogra> doko, any news about schooltool ? did you talk to jinty ? i'd really love to unbreak the edubuntu CDs ...
[04:40] <seb128> ok, now I'm on the laptop
[04:40] <seb128> so
[04:41] <seb128> ifstate:
[04:41] <seb128> lo=lo
[04:41] <seb128> ifconfig:
[04:42] <seb128> eth1   Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:40:....
[04:42] <seb128> inet6 addr: .....
[04:42] <seb128> (ups, there is an inet6)
[04:42] <Keybuk> could you not just paste the entire output please? :p
[04:42] <seb128> UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU: 1500 Metric: 1
[04:42] <seb128> I've no network on the box
[04:42] <seb128> I've to configure eth1 to do that :p
[04:43] <Keybuk> heh
[04:43] <Keybuk> right, so what's the full hwaddr ?
[04:43] <seb128> 00:40:05:5E:A8:68
[04:43] <seb128> if you want the full ifconfig I can put that to a file, configure eth1, copy it and reboot to have a clean state again
[04:44] <Keybuk> no, is ok
[04:44] <Keybuk> 004005       Ani Communications Inc.
[04:44] <Keybuk> does that sound right?  (never heard of them)
[04:44] <Keybuk> what's the mac address of eth0?
[04:44] <seb128> the card is a RealTek RTL-8029
[04:44] <seb128> 00:11:09:2D:23:BF
[04:44] <Keybuk> k...
[04:44] <Keybuk> do you have /sys/class/net/eth1 ?
[04:45] <seb128> yep
[04:45] <seb128> device/device in it says 0x8029
[04:45] <Keybuk> cat /sys/class/eth1/device/modalias
[04:46] <Keybuk> (and yes, you'll have to type it all <g>
[04:46] <seb128> pci:v000010ECd00008029sv000010ECsd00008029bc02sc00i00
[04:47] <Keybuk> ok ...
[04:47] <Keybuk> you have both 8390 and ne2k-pci loaded? (lsmod)
[04:48] <seb128> correct
[04:48] <seb128> ne2k_pci   11872  0
[04:48] <Keybuk> ok ...
[04:48] <Keybuk> ifconfig eth1 down
[04:48] <Keybuk> then udevplug /class/net/eth1
[04:48] <seb128> 8390   11648 1 ne2k_pic
[04:49] <seb128> it's up and configure now
[04:49] <seb128> inet addr: 192.168.0.2 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
[04:49] <Keybuk> is /etc/resolv.conf right?
[04:50] <seb128> yep but it was not in a state likely to be destroyed
[04:50] <seb128> ie: I've put the DNS manually after the nm comment
[04:50] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[04:50] <seb128> I can retry without the nm comment :)
[04:50] <Keybuk> hmm
[04:50] <Keybuk> try rebooting now, see if it comes up on its own this time
[04:51] <seb128> rebooting
[04:53] <dholbach> mdz: thanks for the UVF processing.
[04:53] <seb128> Keybuk:  back to initial situation
[04:54] <seb128> ifstate: lo=lo
[04:54] <Keybuk> seb128: buggered if I know I'm afraid
[04:54] <seb128> no inet addr for eth1
[04:54] <pitti> mdz: I'd be glad if you could take a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/sudo_root.8
[04:54] <Keybuk> at this point I'd suggest booting init=/bin/sh, doing the initial bits of the boot by hand, and then making sure udevplug does /sys/class/net/eth1
[04:54] <Keybuk> or if udevplug doesn't, that at least udevd does
[04:55] <seb128> ifconfig eth1 down && ifconfig eth1 up  doesn't change anything
[04:55] <mdz> pitti: s/less questions/fewer questions/
[04:55] <seb128> hum
[04:56] <pitti> mdz: reload please, I fixed some \- quotings
[04:56] <Keybuk> seb128: ifconfig eth1 down && ifup eth1 will though, right?
[04:56] <seb128> it doesn't set an IP no
[04:56] <seb128> oh
[04:56] <seb128> ifup
[04:56] <Keybuk> seb128: try adding || true onto the end of the ntpdate call in /etc/network/if-up.d
[04:56] <seb128> lemme try
[04:56] <Keybuk> see if that helps
[04:57] <seb128> rebooting
[04:57] <seb128> eth1 is correctly configured after an "/etc/init.d/udev restart"
[04:58] <Keybuk> yeah, that's what makes no sense
[04:58] <Keybuk> makes it sound like it's not getting the uevent during boot
[04:58] <pitti> mdz: do you think the general verbosity and scope is right?
[04:59] <Keybuk> did the || true on its own help?
[04:59] <seb128> Keybuk: interesting, something breaks it
[04:59] <Keybuk> seb128: "something breaks it" ?
[04:59] <ogra> gremlins :)
[05:00] <seb128> sec
[05:00] <seb128> I got the "disk mounted n time ..." on boot
[05:00] <seb128> did ctrl-C
[05:00] <seb128> and tried from there
[05:01] <seb128> eth0 was not up
[05:01] <seb128> and eth1 was up with the correct IP
[05:01] <Keybuk> with just the ntpdate fix?
[05:01] <Keybuk> or something else changed?
[05:01] <seb128> after pressing ctrl-D and continuing the boot it's broken again
[05:01] <Keybuk> "broken again" ?
[05:01] <seb128> eth1 no IP
[05:01] <Keybuk> ok ... try just booting into single user mode
[05:01] <seb128> eth0 up
[05:02] <seb128> so a script is breaking it between the disk prompt and the login prompt
[05:02] <seb128> yeah, doing that
[05:02] <Keybuk> I bet it's NetworkManager starting up and tearing down the interfaces
[05:02] <Keybuk> though what happens to ifstate, I've no idea
[05:04] <mdz> pitti: I suggest referring to the wiki for more information
[05:04] <pitti> mdz: ok, I'll add a SEE ALSO
[05:04] <mdz> pitti: I also question the recommendation to use 'tee' since it does not have the same behaviour as >
[05:05] <mdz> pitti: cat /dev/kmem > foo and cat /dev/kmem | tee foo are not quite equivalent ;-)
[05:06] <pitti> heh, true :)
[05:06] <mdz> pitti: I'd omit the "unless cracked" comment
[05:06] <pitti> so, some >/dev/null bits shoudl be added
[05:06] <mdke> me too, "cracked" is a difficult word to understand
[05:06] <mdz> pitti: s/the installer has to/the installer is able to/
[05:07] <seb128> Keybuk: network is fine in single user mode
[05:07] <Keybuk> seb128: with eth1 in ifstate?
[05:07] <seb128> lo=lo
[05:07] <seb128> no eth1
[05:08] <Keybuk> that's weird
[05:08] <seb128> it as an inet addr
[05:08] <Keybuk> did you have "|| true" in the ntpdate script?
[05:08] <seb128> yep
[05:08] <pitti> mdz: ok, reload please
[05:09] <pitti> now for real
[05:09] <Keybuk> I suspect if you step through each rc2.d init script, you'll find it S12dbus that brings it down
[05:09] <mdz> pitti: s/setup with/set up with/
[05:09] <seb128> how do I step?
[05:09] <Keybuk> cd /etc/rc2.d; ls; ./S05vbesave start; ./S10acpid start; ...
[05:10] <seb128> oh, step from here?
[05:10] <Keybuk> aye
[05:10] <pitti> mdz: I also fixed that 'setup' in the first paragraph
[05:10] <Keybuk> by hand
[05:10] <mdz> pitti: looks good now
[05:11] <pitti> mdz: thanks for the review; I'll stuff that into sudo and also update the bash text
[05:11] <pitti> mdz: 
[05:11] <pitti> To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>."
[05:11] <pitti> See "man sudo_root" for details.
[05:11] <seb128> Keybuk: right, after running dbus start eth0 is up and eth1 is unconfigured
[05:11] <pitti> mdz: ^ less technical than the previous version
[05:11] <Keybuk> pitti: "sudo <command>".
[05:11] <Keybuk> pitti: otherwise you make it look like "." is part of what you have to run
[05:12] <bradb> Hey dudes, I have another Malone UI prototype to show you: a new advanced search (the "Advanced Search coming soon" bit on the +packagebugs report.) I was hoping for some developer feedback before proceeding.
[05:12] <pitti> whoops, right
[05:12] <seb128> bradb: shoot
[05:13] <bradb> coming up in one sec...
[05:14] <bradb> http://flickr.com/photos/84096161@N00/97183390/
[05:14] <seb128> starts looking like bugzilla :)
[05:15] <bradb> I think we can make it look a lot less "zilla" if we're persistent though.
[05:15] <seb128> bradb: still missing one of the most useful feature "search to comments too"
[05:15] <ogra> SHINY !
[05:15] <seb128> bradb: zilla is nice :)
[05:16] <Diziet> Damn, I forgot -sa again.  Oh well.
[05:16] <bradb> seb128: Yeah, searching comments is a limitation that I don't know that I can currently overcome. But I have to revisit the issue with stub.
[05:16] <bradb> We have to make it happen soon enough.
[05:16] <seb128> bradb: other way it looks great
[05:16] <ogra> Diziet, at least we'll know who broke soyuz :P
[05:17] <seb128> bradb: though it doesn't make obvious to know if searching or "a word" does a and or or of the words used
[05:17] <bradb> seb128: true
[05:17] <ed1t> does anybody know where does all the startup programs list is stored in?
[05:18] <seb128> Keybuk: if I uninstall network-manager my eth1 is configured correctly (but still not listed by ifstate)
[05:18] <Keybuk> seb128: if you ifconfig eth1 down and ifup eth1, is it in ifstate?
[05:18] <ed1t> coz i got devilspie at order 1 on startup and now ubuntu wont load after login screen
[05:19] <seb128> Keybuk: yep, eth1=eth1 now
[05:19] <Keybuk> seb128: kooky
[05:19] <seb128> ed1t: ~/.gnome/session-manual or something like that
[05:19] <jbailey> Who was it who agreed to do the X stuff?
[05:19] <bradb> seb128: Can you think of any other important search options it's missing?
[05:19] <HiddenWolf> ed1t: try order 50 or so. stay away from lower orders, since that's when gnome starts up.
[05:19] <Keybuk> jbailey: you did
[05:20] <seb128> jbailey: you
[05:20] <dholbach> Keybuk: Yeah, I remember that too.
[05:20] <jbailey> Oh joy.
[05:20] <dholbach> seb128: will you forward the bugs to jbailey then?
[05:20] <ed1t> HiddenWolf yea i put 1 for devilspie and i think thats the reason why its not loading gnome anymore
[05:20] <jbailey> seb128: We'll trade.  You take glibc, I take X?
[05:20] <seb128> dholbach: just reassign to him :)
[05:21] <dholbach> seb128: yeah.
[05:21] <seb128> jbailey: why do you want to trade with me? trade with dholbach!
[05:21] <jbailey> seb128: You're the one who maintains everything starting with g.
[05:21] <dholbach> jbailey: you wouldn't want that.
[05:21] <jbailey> dholbach: You're right that I truly wouldn't. =)
[05:21] <dholbach> :-)
[05:21] <seb128> jbailey: my first action will be to rename it "libc6" so :p
[05:22] <jbailey> Ahahah
[05:22] <jbailey> But.. But..  think of all the poor ia64 users!
[05:22] <Keybuk> what, both of them?
[05:22] <seb128> ok ok, you can keep glibc
[05:22] <seb128> dholbach can do xorg
[05:22] <jbailey> Keybuk: No, just the one.  The other one got a faster computer. =)
[05:22] <seb128> bradb: how do I specify if I want to search on upstream or dapper or ... bugs?
[05:24] <seb128> Keybuk: anything else you want to try about that network issue?
[05:24] <bradb> seb128: There's the "Upstream Status" field which allows a kind of upstream searching. And there's the milestone search field. Do you mean wanting to find backport/security bugs? (That'd be something different, not on the new search UI.)
[05:25] <ProN00b> why won't ubuntu get the new firefox ?
[05:25] <Keybuk> seb128: not at this moment
[05:25] <Keybuk> seb128: can't think of anything else
[05:25] <Keybuk> if you can strace it and stuff and figure out why ifstate isn't updated at boot that'd be nice
[05:26] <ProN00b> since you don't seem to be writing security patches for 1.0.7
[05:26] <seb128> Keybuk: who is supposed to update it on boot?
[05:26] <ProN00b> the only choice is to get 1.5.0.1 out as a security update
[05:26] <ProN00b> why don't you
[05:26] <ProN00b> ?
[05:26] <pitti> ProN00b: we'll upgrade to 1.0.8 as soon as it's oit
[05:26] <pitti> out, even
[05:26] <seb128> bradb: what is the milestone again? "this bug is to fix for ..."
[05:26] <Keybuk> seb128: ifup is
[05:26] <Keybuk> run from the udev rules
[05:26] <ProN00b> think more practical, and less close minded uh noes updating is bad for stable
[05:26] <pitti> ProN00b: and 1.5.0.1 for dapper is in preparation
[05:26] <seb128> bradb: like "milestone dapper" is what I want to fix for dapper?
[05:26] <Keybuk> and it locks the file and stuff to prevent concurrent writes
[05:27] <ProN00b> pitti, 1.0.8 ? whats that suposed to be ?
[05:27] <bradb> seb128: Yeah, milestones are forward-looking targets.
[05:27] <pitti> ProN00b: well, the next version after 1.0.7?
[05:27] <bradb> Clearly "Milestone" is not a good word to describe this.
[05:27] <ProN00b> -_-
[05:27] <seb128> bradb: I may have some breezy bugs open because I want to backport some patches there, how do I find them?
[05:27] <ProN00b> pitti, why not accept release versions as release versions ?
[05:27] <seb128> is that a milestone?
[05:27] <ProN00b> i mean they are not your release versions, but certainly the ones of the firefox team
[05:28] <dholbach> ProN00b: You might consider that people have given this a thought before accusing them as "close minded".
[05:28] <bradb> seb128: That's not possible in either the current, or the new UI, but I can add that in the new UI.
[05:28] <seb128> bradb: BTW why did you put a binary package field? I hate that, when I change the source package to reassign a bug most of the time I forget to update the binary
[05:28] <seb128> that requires extra step
[05:28] <seb128> is useless and confusing
[05:29] <pitti> ProN00b: upstream announced it for next week
[05:29] <pitti> ProN00b: I don't understand what you mean
[05:29] <bradb> seb128: Because many users don't know the difference between binary and source package, so they file the bug on whatever's in their head.
[05:29] <bradb> So the bug filing form figures out what they mean.
[05:29] <ProN00b> dholbach, no, and even if they ran this choice through their stupid distribution ruleset in their mind, the choice of not putting firefox releases even in the security patches is the wrong choice if it contains security fixes
[05:29] <mdke> bradb, why is the distinction made at all in malone?
[05:30] <ProN00b> pitti, another thing is that i don't want to install a "new os" everytime you update the versions
[05:30] <pitti> ProN00b: hmmmmmmmmmmmm? You are sounding seriously confusing now
[05:30] <dholbach> ProN00b: Try to do this discussion in a calm way or stop it.
[05:31] <bradb> mdke: So that people who report a bug on foo-doc can see that a bug was reported on foo-doc. Instead of reporting it on foo-doc, and seeing just one package value saying "foo".
[05:31] <seb128> bradb: you should have only one field that accept both so and convert that to the source package
[05:31] <pitti> ProN00b: so, we will put 1.0.8 as security updates into warty/hoary/breezy and update dapper to 1.5.0.1
[05:31] <pitti> ProN00b: do you see anything problematic in that appraoch?
[05:31] <seb128> bradb: reporting on nautilus-data should assign the bug to nautilus in a transparant way for user
[05:31] <bradb> seb128: We do that already, it's just that we also populate and show the binary package. I could remove the bin package easily enough.
[05:32] <seb128> that would be nice
[05:32] <mdke> bradb, why not just have them file bugs on foo in the first place?
[05:32] <seb128> because as say people open a bug on gnome-panel gnome-panel by example
[05:32] <ProN00b> yeah, because 1.0.8 will just be open to less vulns than 1.0.7 but there are still alot in it, which are fixed in 1.5.0.1, pitti 
[05:32] <seb128> if I want to reassign to GTK I've to update 2 fields now
[05:32] <bradb> mdke: Because a lot of users have no idea about bin package vs. source package
[05:32] <seb128> you add extra step for daily work
[05:32] <mjg59> ProN00b: Do you have any evidence for that?
[05:32] <seb128> like we had not enough already ;p
[05:32] <pitti> ProN00b: if that is the case, then these vulns are at least not documented
[05:33] <bradb> mdke: A lot of people were complaining that they couldn't file bugs on something, because it turned out they were trying to specify the binary package name, not the source package name.
[05:33] <pitti> ProN00b: right now it's the other way round: only 3 of the 10 or so vulns that affect 1.5.0 affect 1.0, too
[05:33] <ProN00b> pitti, mjg59 is 1.0.8 your own bug fix version of 1.0.7 ?
[05:34] <pitti> ProN00b: no, I'm waiting for upstream's
[05:34] <mdke> bradb, ok, i'm starting to understand. I kinda thought there might be an easy way to have both source and binary names pointing at the same thing
[05:34] <pitti> ProN00b: we already tried bakcporting firefox patches in the past, and it caused nothign but trouble
[05:37] <ProN00b> pitti, the obiously best solution is to just use the newest firefox version if there are any bug fixes apearing in its changelog, this would also be what the user wants, don't you see it ?
[05:37] <ProN00b> isn't ubuntu meant to be a os for humans ?
[05:38] <pitti> ProN00b: that's what we are going to do
[05:38] <mjg59> ProN00b: Users who are running stable releases of operating systems do not want security fixes to be accompanied by extra features
[05:38] <pitti> upgrade stables to 1.0.8 as soon as it's out
[05:38] <mjg59> (And extra bugs, and extra crashes, and so on)
[05:38] <pitti> oh, you meant it *that* way; right, as mjg59 says
[05:38] <seb128> bradb: that should really be one field accepting both source/binary packages
[05:39] <mjg59> ProN00b: So for versions of Ubuntu that ship with Firefox 1.0.7, we'll ship 1.0.8. For those that have 1.5.0, we'll ship 1.5.0.1 (or whatever)
[05:39] <ProN00b> mjg59, oh noes, damn, those evil features and potential bugs might get me if i want to protect myself from the nice little small known vulns in 1.0.7
[05:39] <bradb> seb128: On the bug form, it already is. But on the +editstatus page, it's a little trickier.
[05:39] <ProN00b> 1.0.7 known vulns
[05:39] <ProN00b> 1.5.0.1 no known vulns
[05:39] <ProN00b> ubuntu version: 1.0.7
[05:40] <mdke> ProN00b, they have explained very patiently to you that security vulnerabilities are addressed in each version where they appear
[05:40] <bradb> seb128: Admittedly, the person setting it on +editstatus will hopefully understand why, if they specify a binary package name, it gets auto-converted to the source package name.
[05:40] <pitti> ProN00b: the vulns will be fixed 1.0.8, which is in preparation; we can't be even faster than upstream 
[05:40] <bradb> So maybe we can tune +editstatus to keep it just one field there too.
[05:40] <pitti> ProN00b: 1.5.0.1: lots of unknown new vulns introduced in 1.5
[05:41] <seb128> bradb: that's the editstatus page which bother me, it forces me to update 2 fields instead of 1, so it slow me down when reassigning a bug
[05:41] <ProN00b> pitti, lots of known vulns in 1.0.7
[05:41] <tseng> 1.5 also changes the api, and means all the apps using gecko would be rebuilt
[05:41] <bradb> seb128: Yeah, I definitely see what you mean.
[05:41] <ProN00b> pitti, whats better, unknown or known vulns ?
[05:41] <tseng> so its not as simple an issue as you seem to think it is
[05:41] <pitti> ProN00b: known ones
[05:41] <ogra> ProN00b, you dont get the point ...
[05:41] <seb128> bradb: to come back to the new mockup for bug query, I think it's great :)
[05:42] <seb128> bradb: with an option to using comments too it would totally rock :)
[05:42] <ogra> ProN00b, mozilla announced to release 1.0.8 soon ... we'll ship it and close the vulns 
[05:42] <ogra> thats it 
[05:42] <Kamion> ProN00b: upgrading to 1.5 in dapper was a complex upgrade involving many other packages, and there was lots of breakage in dapper when it was only half-done
[05:42] <bradb> seb128: cool. I'm tweaking it now for release targets vs. backport fixes. Comments'll definitely be trickier. :P
[05:42] <Kamion> ProN00b: our considered opinion is that it's not suitable to backport it to a stable release that currently has the 1.0.x series
[05:42] <bradb> Though that would clearly rock to get working.
[05:42] <pitti> 1.0.8 is prepared and in QA; let upstream do their job
[05:44] <ProN00b> -_- Kamion i can't believe that, how can it break other packages ?
[05:44] <pitti> ProN00b: it's called 'API'
[05:44] <Kamion> ProN00b: have a look at all the other packages that have tight versioned dependencies on firefox
[05:44] <Kamion> firefox locales and the packages that embed gecko
[05:44] <pitti> ProN00b: lots and lots of packages use libnspr, libnss, and some even use the whole mozilla API
[05:44] <pitti> ProN00b: not to mention the countless translation packages and such
[05:45] <Kamion> also firefox extensions
[05:46] <mdke> examples are yelp (gnome help), add applications, epiphany
[05:46] <xhaker> quick question: why are there missing icons?
[05:47] <ProN00b> pitti, Kamion sounds like dll hell to me...
[05:47] <dholbach> xhaker: you mean on the gnome desktop?
[05:48] <Kamion> ProN00b: DLL hell is when you can't spot the problems as a user until stuff crashes; in this case you can spot the problems because the package manager will prevent you from installing the packages
[05:48] <xhaker> i noticed on gdm options menu.. and some stock icons i used in gtkwifi are now missing too
[05:48] <Kamion> mdz: good news is that I've implemented parallel install/live CD builds
[05:48] <Kamion> mdz: bad news is that it doesn't appear to save any time, presumably due to insufficient I/O bandwidth on little as elmo suggested
[05:48] <dholbach> xhaker: gnome-icon-theme uses icon-naming-utils now - it's a transition, which causes minor breakages.
[05:48] <Kamion> it's about 20 minutes either way
[05:49] <seb128> Keybuk: S35mountall breaks the ifstate eth1=eth1
[05:49] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't know why though
[05:50] <xhaker> dholbach: are you sure /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/stock/data/stock_lock.png i.e. will be back?
[05:51] <Keybuk> mehan?
[05:51] <Keybuk> paste your /etc/fstab somewhere
[05:51] <dholbach> xhaker: it's not filed as a bug yet.
[05:54] <xhaker> dholbach: i better update my icon dirs on the app
[05:54] <xhaker> thanks for the info
[05:54] <dholbach> xhaker: I'll talk to upstream about this one.
[05:54] <Keybuk> that'd be a cute race ... if ifup finished about the same time that /var was moved out of the way
[05:54] <seb128> xhaker: no, it'll not be back
[05:54] <Keybuk> but that's suppppposed to be impossible
[05:55] <dholbach> xhaker: Upstream says that it won't be installed to hicolor again - that was a 'mistake'.
[05:55] <xhaker> seb128: i understood that after i slocated the icon and noticed they go on different dirs now
[05:55] <seb128> Keybuk: a min, putting the concerned box in a state where I can copy fstab without having to typing the whole of it :)
[05:56] <jdub> BenC: ping
[05:58] <dholbach> xhaker: did you have a hardcoded path?
[05:58] <seb128> dholbach: the issue is if you use a theme which doesn't Inherit from gnome
[05:58] <seb128> hicolor is always used
[05:59] <seb128> which is not the case of gnome
[05:59] <xhaker> dholbach: yes i did.. i don't think there is another option
[06:00] <xhaker> dholbach: is there any api function to get the lock icon from the current icon theme?
[06:06] <stewart> Hi Im just playing with dapper where has the multimedia selector gone
[06:06] <xhaker> gstreamer-properties
[06:06] <mdke> stewart, lots of menu items have been removed for simplicity
[06:06] <seb128> "some" rather than "lot"
[06:07] <seb128> "some" rather than "lots"
[06:07] <ogra> Diziet, wow, your changelog is a book
[06:07] <stewart> Im hoping to run my hauppage but cant find tv time in the repos our that nice little multimedia gui for testing
[06:08] <stewart> are you guys ditching the gui gor multimedia for good?
[06:09] <Amaranth> multimedia gui for testing?
[06:09] <tseng> Filename: pool/universe/t/tvtime/tvtime_1.0.1-2ubuntu1_i386.deb
[06:09] <tseng> its right ^ there
[06:10] <stewart> yeah under hoary and breezy there was a gui for changing and testing your multimedia (sound and video capture) etting
[06:10] <stewart> in gnom system preferences
[06:10] <Amaranth> should still be there
[06:11] <xhaker> stewart is saying he misses gstreamer-properties menu item
[06:11] <stewart> not under my flight 3 of dapper
[06:12] <mjg59> stewart: In theory, it should all work automatically now
[06:12] <stewart> mwhahaha
[06:12] <mjg59> (And hasn't been ported to gstreamer0.10, so isn't visible by default)
[06:12] <mjg59> If it's failing out of the box, then please file bugs
[06:12] <stewart> thats OK makes it tricky to test that the TV card works without a tv app so I better get one
[06:12] <mjg59> stewart: Heh
[06:12] <stewart> any idea why tvtime doesnt show in my synaptic?
[06:14] <xhaker> you need to enable universe.. do you know how to do it?
[06:14] <stewart> yup
[06:14] <Kinnison> Kamion: ping?
[06:16] <Kamion> Kinnison: yes?
[06:16] <Kinnison> Kamion: Can you please retry the queue command which resulted in 30827 and tell me if it's any better?
[06:17] <Kamion> Kinnison: new and more exciting failure
[06:17] <Kinnison> can you /msg me the traceback?
[06:18] <stewart> an odd thing was that I had to sort an entry in my sudoers file to be able to run as root
[06:18] <stewart> although I think thats a well known
[06:18] <Kamion> Kinnison: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileqCjeZE.html
[06:18] <Kamion> (sorry, was already in the process of pasting it)
[06:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: oooh yummy
[06:19] <stewart> and gedit seems to not run from sudo
[06:19] <Kamion> stewart: you in the admin group?
[06:19] <Kamion> if you installed your system fresh with warty, you won't be
[06:19] <Kamion> if you installed fresh with >= hoary, you should be
[06:19] <stewart> its a clean install of dapper
[06:20] <stewart> used advanced install
[06:20] <stewart> and created my user through the installer
[06:20] <stewart> vim works just fine
[06:21] <Kamion> what did you have to change in sudoers?
[06:21] <pitti> stewart: sudo gedit works fine for me, although gksudo gedit is prefered
[06:23] <stewart> just needed to add an entry for my user using  visudo
[06:23] <Kinnison> Kamion: and now?
[06:23] <pitti> stewart: there was no entry for %admin?
[06:23] <stewart> root    ALL=(ALL) ALL
[06:23] <stewart> stewart ALL=(ALL) ALL
[06:23] <Kamion> Kinnison: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileIGSBf2.html
[06:24] <stewart> the second I added
[06:24] <Kamion> stewart: did you choose to set a root password in the installer?
[06:24] <Kamion> using expert mode
[06:24] <Kinnison> Kamion: Ohferchrisstsake
[06:24] <stewart> yeah think so both user name and root pwd are the same though (stupid I know)
[06:24] <Kinnison> Kamion: Okay, I need to get stub to do a grant
[06:25] <Kinnison> Kamion: go me
[06:25] <Kamion> stewart: in that case yes this is well-known
[06:25] <stewart> thought so cool
[06:25] <Kamion> currently we assume that if you set a root password then you want to use it
[06:25] <Kamion> (instead of sudo)
[06:25] <Kamion> we're hoping to sort this out much better upstream after d-i etch beta2 is released
[06:25] <Kamion> and hopefully have time to sync that into dapper so that this stops being an issue
[06:26] <Kamion> Kinnison: ok, thanks
[06:26] <Kinnison> Kamion: sorry about this
[06:26] <shaya> anyone having issues w/ /usr/share/autostart on dapper right now?
[06:27] <stewart> Ive got a default sources.list has that not got multiverse enabled?
[06:27] <thesaltydog> I was on #ubuntu, asking questions on network-manager not working... and I have got this answer:
 thesaltydog: then pay support or wait until april?
[06:27] <thesaltydog> is it normal?
[06:27] <Kamion> stewart: correct and deliberate
[06:28] <Kamion> thesaltydog: that depends on how demanding you were being of the people volunteering help :)
[06:28] <stewart> OK is it a probe to enable?
[06:28] <stewart> problem
[06:28] <thesaltydog> ok.. the logs are there.. No matter.
[06:28] <Kamion> if you were being demanding, then I'm not too surprised; otherwise it may just have been somebody being unnecessarily hostile
[06:29] <Kamion> either way, this is not an escalation channel for #ubuntu disputes
[06:29] <Kamion> stewart: we decided long ago not to enable it by default (there's way too much dodgy stuff in multiverse that people with more-than-casual legal concerns may want to think about), but you can certainly enable it yourself if you like
[06:31] <stewart> I just get error messages when I try and set mutiverse
[06:31] <Kamion> "multiverse"
[06:31] <stewart> Errhttp: dapper Release.gpg
[06:31] <stewart>   Unable to connect to  http:
[06:31] <Kamion> perhaps you could paste the exact line you have in sources.list for multiverse
[06:32] <stewart> universe sorry
[06:32] <Kamion> same question then
[06:32] <stewart> by default I have these 2 
[06:32] <stewart> deb http:///ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[06:32] <stewart> deb-src http:///ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[06:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: we can't progress this bug until the grant is done, I'll get back to you when it is ready 
[06:33] <Kamion> stewart: you have no host in those URLs
[06:33] <Keybuk> "///" ?
[06:33] <Kamion> stewart: http://some.host.name/ubuntu/
[06:33] <Kinnison> dapper backports?!
[06:33] <Kamion> Kinnison: they *will* exist, so the installer sets up sources.list that way because it won't get a chance later
[06:33] <Kinnison> Kamion: right
[06:34] <Kamion> stewart: if that's what the installer gave you by default, I'd like a bug report against apt-setup with your /var/log/installer/syslog attached, please
[06:34] <stewart> OK so why are the commented lines listed without machine/domains was it like that before?
[06:34] <Kamion> note that you will need to use root privileges to read /var/log/installer/syslog
[06:35] <stewart> I'll check my backup to make sure
[06:35] <Kamion> oh, also /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat
[06:37] <stewart> OK my bad
[06:37] <stewart> originals are as youd expect
[06:37] <stewart> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
[06:37] <stewart> I uncommented
[06:37] <stewart> deb http:///ubuntu/ dapper universe
[06:38] <stewart> which obviously as you point out has not machine/domain name doh
[06:38] <stewart> are you putting the commented universe links in without machine names deliberately (for legal reasons)?
[06:39] <Kamion> er, no
[06:39] <Kamion> I'm extremely surprised that the commented versions differ, because the code generating them uses the same variable name
[06:40] <Kamion> although security.ubuntu.com doesn't count, that's different code
[06:40] <Kamion> 17:34 < Kamion> stewart: if that's what the installer gave you by default, I'd like a bug report against apt-setup with your /var/log/installer/syslog attached, please
[06:41] <stewart> OK do you want me to attach the original sources.list_backup file
[06:41] <stewart> run me through what you want and I'll send in
[06:41] <Kamion> I want precisely what I asked for above :)
[06:42] <Kamion> plus /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat
[06:42] <Kamion> I guess your sources.list might be useful, just in case there's something odd in it, but it's not required; your summary of the problem is enough
[06:43] <stewart> so a copy of the syslog
[06:43] <stewart> questions.dat
[06:44] <stewart> and original repos list?
[06:44] <Kamion> yes, please
[06:44] <stewart> sent where?
[06:44] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apt-setup/+filebug
[06:45] <stewart> grr firefox is hanging
[06:46] <jdub> maswan: dude, you're on osnews :)
[06:46] <Kamion> stewart: there is an e-mail interface if you need it
[06:47] <stewart> its OK Im sorted now
[06:47] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[06:49] <mdke> jdub, have you got a minute?
[06:50] <jdub> mdke: yo
[06:50] <stewart> do you want me to paste those files intothe comments?
[06:50] <mdke> jdub, *points at #ubuntu-doc*
[06:50] <Kamion> stewart: no - file the bug, then you'll get an "Add Attachment" link or similar down the right-hand side
[06:51] <stewart> cheers
[06:55] <Kamion> stewart: (I've also filed https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/30856 requesting that the bug tracker be improved with respect to filing bugs with attachments)
[06:55] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30856 in malone "would like to be able to add attachment(s) while filing the bug" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:55] <stewart> cool although the system dosent look bad
[06:55] <stewart> a little counter intuative but functionaly good
[06:56] <pitti> Diziet: no CVEs in firefox changelog? *sniff*
[06:58] <Kamion> counterintuitiveness is good to fix too. :)
[07:01] <Kamion> stewart: Feb  2 16:39:01 main-menu[2041] : WARNING **: Configuring 'choose-mirror' failed with error code 134 
[07:01] <Kamion> stewart: that's "Aborted" - are you low on memory, or did you notice anything weird happening earlier on in the installation?
[07:02] <Diziet> pitti: Ah, damn.
[07:02] <Diziet> Sorry, I got distracted by everything else.
[07:02] <pitti> Diziet: well, it won't be the last dapper upload I suppose :)
[07:02] <Kamion> indeed, mirror/http/hostname is empty
[07:02] <Diziet> I'll retrospectively include them in the next one.
[07:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's the same I saw in London, remember?
[07:02] <pitti> Diziet: that's fine, thanks
[07:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, good point
[07:03] <Kamion> Feb  2 16:28:54 cdrom-detect: Detected CD 'Ubuntu 6.04 "Dapper Drake" - Alpha i386 (20060115)'
[07:03] <Kamion> so ok, it's a choose-mirror crash due to a buggered templates file
[07:04] <stewart> yeah I noticed that kam
[07:04] <stewart> I think I didnt have the network up when installing
[07:05] <stewart> it was clean intall from CD
[07:05] <Kamion> yeah, choose-mirror is used to select the mirror that will be used anyway, though
[07:06] <stewart> Im running 1GB mem
[07:06] <Kamion> even if it's only the country default (as it is in most cases)
[07:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir's right, it was the buggered choose-mirror debconf templates file that we fixed in London
[07:06] <Kamion> (probably)
[07:07] <Kamion> stewart: if you see it with a current CD image, though (from about today onwards), do file a bug
[07:07] <stewart> I may have been up and down the install process (stage wise) a couple of times
[07:07] <Kamion> er, reopen that bug
[07:07] <Kamion> it's always worth checking these things out
[07:08] <stewart> yup
[07:08] <stewart> anything helps you guys make this is worth my time
[07:09] <stewart> that said what i the machine name to universe :-)
[07:10] <Diziet> Am I supposed to be able to see how my builds are coming along in soyuz ?  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/firefox/1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.1-1ubuntu1 is rather gnomic.
[07:10] <Diziet> (... try #launchpad says everyone)
[07:11] <mjg59> ogra: The RSS screensavers don't appear in gnome-screensaver
[07:11] <Kamion> hmm, theoretically yes, maybe it doesn't link the build logs to source packages until they complete or something?
[07:11] <ogra> mjg59, known, i have bugs open about it 
[07:12] <ogra> mjg59, screensavers need to have .desktop files to appear in g-s-s
[07:12] <maswan> jdub: dude, neat!
[07:12] <mjg59> ogra: They have .desktop files, they're just wrong
[07:12] <mjg59> (for this purpose)
[07:12] <Kamion> kind of a LACK OF SEARCHING on +builds
[07:12] <ogra> i didnt look into rss-glx yet ... buit its on my list
[07:12] <maswan> jdub: apparently, /. is more picky about what junk it posts. ;)
[07:13] <mjg59> ogra: Cool, thanks
[07:13] <jdub> maswan: haha
[07:13] <Diziet> `No builds for firefox in Ubuntu Dapper.'
[07:13] <Diziet> I'll try #launchpad and report back :-).
[07:13] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: I'd like to sync gutenprint from sid - they have a new release candidate (for gutenprint5), which (accord to the NEWS file) supports a 100 more printer models and fixes a bunch of other bugs - you want to have the ChangeLog diff?
[07:13] <ogra> mjg59, electricsheep has the same prob
[07:13] <Kamion> Diziet: eventually they should appear in the "Builds" portlet on the right-hand side, but that may not be until they're finished
[07:13] <Diziet> Yes.
[07:14] <Kamion> dholbach: just looking through it now
[07:15] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks a lot.
[07:15] <Burgwork> sivang, ah. Is that the sign of hacking on a backup program?
[07:16] <mjg59> ogra: Ah
[07:16] <sivang> Burgwork: indeed :-D
[07:16] <Burgwork> sivang, yay!
[07:18] <stewart> I can say my bttv car did just work
[07:18] <stewart> as did sound
[07:19] <stewart> you guys are good
[07:19] <Kamion> dholbach: yes, looks sane to me - mostly new printer support and some bug fixes, looks fairly safe
[07:19] <Kamion> go ahead
[07:20] <dholbach> Cool.
[07:22] <Burgwork> sivang, given my current lack of any Ubuntu work, I don't think I have a leg to stand on
[07:25] <mdz> dholbach: yes, changelog please
[07:26] <mdz> Diziet,Kamion: I think the build links appear as soon as they are pending
[07:27] <Kamion> mdz: (I just looked at the gutenprint changelog myself)
[07:27] <dracflamloc> hello. is there a channel for those running the test versions of ubuntu?
[07:27] <Kamion> but doesn't do any harm to have an e-mail record I guess
[07:28] <mdz> Kamion: that's fine then; I hadn't read far enough to see that yet
[07:29] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: if you want, I'll write a mail and include James in the conversation - that's no problem.
[07:34] <Kamion> Diziet: it's got as far as listing them all as "Needs building" now
[07:41] <Diziet> kamion: Oh, so it does.  Good :-).
[07:41] <Diziet> I wonder why it waited.  `Date requested:  2006-02-08 18:29:02 UTC'
[07:44] <Kamion> Diziet: I'm guessing, but I suspect that new build jobs are only fed to buildds when the publisher finishes, and it's a cron job that runs at :00 every hour and takes 20 minutes or so
[07:44] <Kamion> :29 is a not-too-implausible time for that to kick off, I think
[07:45] <elmo> it's publisher + sequencer and the sequencer scans every 10 mins I believe
[07:45] <elmo> and as kamion said publisher is currently taking 20 mins
[07:46] <Diziet> Ahhh.
[07:46] <Diziet> Fair enough.
[07:46] <LaserJock> elmo: did you get my irc message about removing ruby-gnuplot from universe?
[07:46] <elmo> LaserJock: yes, I'll get to it when I can, I'm a little swamped atm
[07:47] <LaserJock> elmo: np, I just wanted to make sure it was on the list ;-)
[08:12] <Keybuk> seb128: ROFL
[08:12] <Keybuk> do you know, that combination never occurred to me
[08:48] <jag_fsf> howdy -- i'm jag, sysadmin for the fsf -- i need to pm with one of the ubuntu project folks if any of you are around...
[08:48] <jag_fsf> mako? you here?
[08:49] <jag_fsf> or jdub?
[08:50] <Keybuk> jag_fsf: it's almost exactly the wrong time for everyone, it's either dinner or lunch time
[08:50] <Keybuk> what's up?
[08:51] <jag_fsf> can i pm?
[08:51] <Keybuk> sure
[08:52] <seb128> Keybuk: should I open a bug on initscripts assigned to you about the /tmp /var issue? :)
[08:53] <Keybuk> sure thing
[09:01] <mvo> elmo: the regression with --print-uris in apt you reported yesterday is fixed in my arch branch btw 
[09:32] <Treenaks> On which package do I file a bug about interfaces/their #names?
[10:17] <triceratops> I just see that gnome-session-properties uses /usr/share/autostart but not /home/user/.../autostart anymore. Thats _very_anoying due to the fact that now all this KDE stuff is started in a gnome session...
[10:19] <Treenaks> BenC: (you might want to disable a debug message in sdhci: my log is being spammed now: [4297493.878000]  mmc2: DMA end
[10:19] <Treenaks> BenC: (but sdhci now works!) (and smart batteries too!)
[10:20] <triceratops> I noticed this as a problem when I started a gnome session and a lot of KDE apps where started. 
[10:20] <seb128> triceratops: it has already been reported, use a stable version of Ubuntu if you don't want to face working branch stuff
[10:21] <seb128> triceratops: complain if bugs beeing very annoying on that chan is of no use
[10:24] <triceratops> seb128:  Im asking here to fizzle what app might be responsible for this, not for complaining. Asking such questions on #ubuntu will give no answer
[10:25] <triceratops> seb128: You may have noticed that I always ask on #ubuntu first, and if I don't get an answer I repeat my questions here...
[10:26] <seb128> triceratops: I'm not on #ubuntu
[10:27] <seb128> there is already a malone bug from today about that, should be easy to spot before asking if you have a look :)
[10:27] <seb128> and what to blame?
[10:27] <seb128> KDE apps to not declaring to the .desktop that the stuff are KDE specific
[10:28] <seb128> and gnome-session probably to no exclude KDE specific too (I had a quick look on that, if it's bugged I'll fix it tomorrow)
[10:30] <HiddenWolf> seb128: I guess some people might want /some/ kde stuff to start, if/when it's useful
[10:30] <sivang> hehe
[10:30] <seb128> HiddenWolf: they can save them to their session so
[10:32] <triceratops> seb128: If it's easy to spot... So please tell me how to do so. Having a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/dapper doesn't show this bug to me. 
[10:32] <seb128> because it has no dapper milestone
[10:33] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search
[10:33] <seb128> 30849. Kde desktop applications started by gnome-session 
[10:33] <seb128> that's middle of the page
[10:35] <triceratops> Thak's a lot, noticed this for the future.
[10:35] <seb128> np
[10:35] <seb128> BTW when you want to ask where to report a bug or if it's already know
[10:36] <seb128> no need to start by saying it's "_very_ anoying"
[10:36] <seb128> that makes it look like some whining about stuff beeing worked
[10:36] <seb128> the change has been made today, a bug has been opened, it's going to be worked and fixed ... that's how stuff work :)
[10:37] <seb128> if you do hourly dist-upgrade you have to live with that sort of annoying cycle
[10:38] <triceratops> seb128: OK, you are right. It was useless noise saying so.  But it was anoying... :-)) *grins*
[10:39] <triceratops> seb128: But I think it might be interesting to have some kind of bugreporters school, like the motu school. I will bet there are a lot people who might be interested in becoming propper bug reporters / testers.
[10:40] <seb128> there is #ubuntu-bugs, a whole set of wiki pages on the topic, and regular bug days for that :)
[10:40] <seb128> dholbach has planned one for next week again afaik
[10:44] <triceratops> Arrgl, another channel. The list is becoming longer and longer, 12 ubuntu related entries so far. But I noticed it for the future. EOT
[11:54] <mjr> anyone know if X.org nowadays does hw acceleration for remote GLX calls?
[11:55] <mjg59> mjr: No
[11:55] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: hi
[11:55] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Hi
[11:55] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: got a minute?
[11:56] <mjg59> Sure
[11:56] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: it's been bugging me that when I'm watching a movie in totem, my screen goes to standby.
[11:56] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: seb says it's not totem, pitty doesn't know
[11:56] <HiddenWolf> I've told g-p-m not to send the screen to sleep, and it's still happening.
[11:57] <mjr> mjg59, ack
[11:57] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Probably a gnome-screensaver issue
[11:57] <Drac[Server] > Is there ny way I can get Ubuntu to see this old ISA ethernet controller card?
[11:57] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: I talked to upstream yesterday, and they closed the bug in minutes.
[11:58] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: If the screen is turning off, it's because X is turning it off. The only thing that's telling X when to do that is gnome-screensaver, unless you have xscreensaver installed
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: so what about g-p-m
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> It has a setting to send the screen to standby
[11:59] <mjg59> Yes
[11:59] <mjg59> But it's gnome-screensaver that actually does that
[11:59] <mjg59> g-p-m just writes the gconf keys
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> ok
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> and something is broken.
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> I just set g-p-m timeout to 1 minute for send the screen to standby
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> didn't blank