[02:56] <mhz> jsgotangco: sorry, i should ping you here :)
[02:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:57] <mhz> jsgotangco: if you had to write a how-to create docs for doc-team... what would you say the only basic tags are to learn?
[02:58] <jsgotangco> basic docbook tags?
[02:58] <jsgotangco> well the styleguide is a good place to add those
[02:58] <jsgotangco> and eventually the styleguide becomes a doc guide
[02:58] <jsgotangco> me and jeff schering discussed about it before
[02:58] <LaserJock> I use screen orderedlist application and filename a lot
[02:59] <jsgotangco> orderedlist mostly
[03:00] <mhz> hmmm
[03:01] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, as long as its well formed and valid heh
[03:02] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: yeah, i am still editing ubuntu desktop guide :)
[03:03] <robotgeek> http://robotgeek.no-ip.info/KubuntuDesktopGuide/ is the cheap html preview
[03:03] <mhz> example: the following is a basic doc (considering tags) template for you to follow
[03:06] <robotgeek> everyone should expect a bunch of patches tommorow :)
[03:07] <jsgotangco> yeah that's no problem as long as *somone* replies that the patch has been applied
[03:09] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: i just sent in a email to the list regarding a patch which bur[n] er sent, basically not to apply it 
[03:10] <jsgotangco> i tried it failed
[03:10] <robotgeek> hmm, that's weird, cause i was able to apply it with (patch -p0 < patchfile)
[03:14] <jsgotangco> well i haven't committed anyway patch away :)
[03:14] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: i think jjesse missed 2 patches 
[03:15] <jsgotangco> where?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> i'll patch it now
[03:15] <robotgeek> in my tar.gz, i dunno if he had somethine else in mind
[03:15] <jsgotangco> hmm i'll check again
[03:15] <jsgotangco> what specific patches?
[03:15] <robotgeek> new_menus.patch is what he missed
[03:16] <robotgeek> global.ent.patch is a patch adding a link for kubuntu-support
[03:16] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:17] <jsgotangco> ok i'll check on it now
[03:37] <robotgeek> howdy Madpilot 
[03:37] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek
[03:42] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot
[03:42] <Madpilot> hi LaserJock
[03:43] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
[03:44] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek
[03:44] <robotgeek> heh, long list of hey's and hi, always good
[04:28] <Snake__> *yawns*
[04:28] <jjesse> no yawning
[04:30] <Snake__> jjesse: why not
[04:31] <jjesse> cause it reminds me that i'm tired and should go to bed, instead of working on kubuntu stuff
[04:31] <Snake__> jjesse: haha, what time is it there?
[04:31] <Snake__> (wherever you are...)
[04:32] <jjesse> almost 11pm, i'm in michigan united states, however it's been a long day, up at 6am
[04:32] <Snake__> jjesse: meh come on, im ohio here, and im up at 5:30 am, you can make it :P
[04:32] <jjesse> where bouts in ohio?
[04:32] <jjesse> i'm in grand rapids Mi
[04:33] <Snake__> Eastlake, up near cleveland
[04:33] <jjesse> oh i've heard of it
[04:33] <Snake__> Wow, im surprised :)
[04:33] <Snake__> I didnt think its a famous as it seems to be
[04:33] <Snake__> lol
[04:33] <jjesse> my dad's family is from elyria
[04:33] <Snake__> Ah, that place is nice
[04:33] <jjesse> and i've been to cleveland several times
[04:33] <jjesse> avon lake as well
[04:34] <robotgeek> hey jsgotangco 
[04:34] <robotgeek> damn i am tired, i meant "hi jjesse "
[04:35] <Snake__> wb robotgeek 
[04:35] <jjesse> hiya robotgeek
[04:35] <robotgeek> jjesse: did you miss 2 patches? or not apply them for some reason?
[04:35] <jjesse> hmm must have missed two.. i can take care of them in the monring
[04:36] <robotgeek> jsgotangco is looking at them, so don't bother
[04:36] <Snake__> jjesse: you must be busy, applying all this stuff between the 3 of you (I think theres only 3 right?)
[04:36] <robotgeek> jjesse: i have been managing a mini svn here, 3 ppl working on the same chapter :)
[04:37] <jjesse> that have svn access or just do kubuntu docs?
[04:37] <jjesse> there are lots that have svn access, just some of us hang out more in the channel
[04:37] <jsgotangco> well majority of those with svn access are not active anymore
[04:37] <jsgotangco> but sometimes make a fix or two
[04:38] <jjesse> jsgotangco: sorry bout not posting to the mailing list, sent a note on the channel instaed, was busy at work
[04:38] <Snake__> Oh okay
[04:38] <jsgotangco> jjesse, its ok :)
[04:38] <jjesse> hmmm what other applications should i talk about in my chapter :(
[04:38] <jsgotangco> is this for the official book?
[04:38] <jjesse> yup
[04:38] <bur[n] er> jjesse: what chapter?
[04:38] <jsgotangco> nice
[04:39] <jsgotangco> do you work with a DE?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> (developmental editor)
[04:39] <jjesse> yeah i need to submit my first draft on friday morning
[04:39] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:39] <jsgotangco> deja vu
[04:39] <jjesse> i think Burgwork has his in already cause he got a head start :)
[04:39] <jjesse> i'm late to the game
[04:39] <jsgotangco> yeah DEs can be so demanding
[04:40] <jsgotangco> when you start writing a book, you get a whole new perspective of how its being done
[04:40] <jjesse> i know and i'm only writing a chapter 
[04:40] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:40] <robotgeek> so, are most of the docteam writers?
[04:40] <jjesse> i'm not a writer by proffession robotgeek
[04:40] <jsgotangco> same here
[04:40] <jjesse> i just do it in my "spare" time
[04:41] <robotgeek> hmm, okay. 
[04:41] <jjesse> for a job i'm a windows network administrator
[04:41] <jsgotangco> even spare time can be frustrating
[04:41] <Snake__> jjesse: wwwinnddooowwwsss
[04:41] <Snake__> MSCE will get no where near my name
[04:41] <jsgotangco> sometimes your mind goes blank and can't write
[04:41] <Snake__> MCSE* Whatever
[04:41] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: happened to me when i was writing my thesis
[04:41] <Kaiser_Away> MSCE
[04:41] <Snake__> I thought so :)
[04:41] <jsgotangco> Snake__, it's jjesse 's money maker at the moment so...
[04:41] <jsgotangco> nothing wrong with it
[04:42] <jjesse> microsoft certieifed systems engineer
[04:42] <Snake__> Yea
[04:42] <Snake__> MCSE Thats what I thought
[04:42] <Kaiser_Away> jjesse: oh ok. i thought the middle 2 wre the other way around o_0
[04:42] <jsgotangco> i used to admin a lot of win2k3 servers too
[04:42] <jsgotangco> till i left that job
[04:42] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:42] <jjesse> win2k3 are a lot easier to admin then either an NT or 2000 box ever was
[04:42] <jsgotangco> now i'm clueless on windows servers
[04:42] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:42] <Kaiser_Away> minesweeper consultant/solitare expert ... and i still cant remember the letters :$
[04:43] <jjesse> oh i run a debian server as well
[04:43] <jsgotangco> NO UBUNTU?
[04:43] <jjesse> beside my boxes nope
[04:43] <Snake__> lol
[04:43] <robotgeek> hmm, it's a sparc
[04:43] <bur[n] er> jjesse: exchange 11 sp1 is still as ugly as ever ;)
[04:43] <jjesse> debian serve was running before kubuntu
[04:43] <Snake__> I want to go for CCNA, and CCNP
[04:43] <robotgeek> never change anything that works well :_)
[04:43] <jjesse> bur[n] er: no doubt, i'm still a little upset that exchange 12 will be only 64 bit
[04:44] <jjesse> ccna is tough, i missed it by one question last time i took it
[04:44] <jjesse> Snake__: if you are looking for a cisco job get certified in telephony 
[04:44] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:44] <jjesse> and if you are yung enough, skip the ccna ccnp and go right for the big dog
[04:44] <Snake__> jjesse: I had a cisco rep say he would refer me, and probly get in into a school because he was impressed at my knowledge lol
[04:45] <jsgotangco> telephony is the way to go
[04:45] <Snake__> jjesse: only 16, is that young enough?
[04:45] <Snake__> :)
[04:45] <jjesse> it will take about 5 years to get the big dog, the CCIE, 100k/year pretty much guarenteed
[04:45] <robotgeek> i don't know jack squat about cisco stuff
[04:46] <jjesse> and the CCIE is the only cert that you don't have renew all the time
[04:46] <jsgotangco> same here
[04:46] <Snake__> jjesse: but wouldn't I need to go through the levels?
[04:46] <Snake__> CCNA, CCNP, CCIE
[04:46] <jjesse> not neccessary
[04:46] <jjesse> i know someone that weent from no cert to ccie after 5 years of studying
[04:47] <Snake__> hmmm
[04:47] <Snake__> Ill have to look into that
[04:47] <jjesse> but along the way you can almost ace the tests for the other certs
[04:47] <Snake__> bur[n] er: your runnin 2k3 servers without certs?
[04:48] <Snake__> ?
[04:48] <jjesse> bur[n] er nod don't have to have a cert to get a job
[04:48] <jsgotangco> im pretty much comfortable to where i am now
[04:48] <jjesse> just have to be good
[04:48] <Snake__> Certainly not for a big company...
[04:48] <bur[n] er> Snake__: running, specing, purchasing, installing, yes :)
[04:48] <Snake__> bur[n] er: did you have a friend that got you in??
[04:49] <bur[n] er> Snake__: no, just started doing it ;)
[04:49] <jsgotangco> jjesse, do you read sounder?
[04:49] <Snake__> Weird... lol, around here they wouldn't even let me work on a machine at a mom and pop store despite me outsmarting them >10 times and fixing 3 of their machines w/o pay
[04:49] <Snake__> lol
[04:50] <jjesse> jsgotangco: nope should I ?
[04:50] <bur[n] er> Snake__: it helps that I'm not a teenager ;)
[04:50] <jsgotangco> jjesse, mark suggested a doc sprint in london late march
[04:50] <jjesse> i'm already on like 5 different *ubuntu docs
[04:50] <Snake__> bur[n] er: yea I guess so :P
[04:50] <bur[n] er> people assume I have a masters or something... i never correct them ;)
[04:50] <robotgeek> bur[n] er: heh
[04:50] <jjesse> hmmm that would be nice, no money for travel though
[04:51] <Snake__> bur[n] er: I'm not aroggant with it, but ill correct people if they cant fix something
[04:51] <jsgotangco> jjesse, he's willing to pay though, but that's just his suggestion no concrete details yet
[04:51] <jsgotangco> and it conflicts with our freeze
[04:51] <jjesse> then i'll schedule my vacation :)
[04:51] <jjesse> doh
[04:51] <Snake__> Man im so sore...must do 19 more pushups!!
[04:51] <jjesse> hmm for dapper we getting quickguide, about-kubuntu and releasenotes correct?
[04:51] <bur[n] er> is anyone tackling xubuntu documentation at all?
[04:52] <jjesse> cause releasenotes and about-kubuntu are up to date
[04:52] <jsgotangco> robotgeek is tackling desktop guide but hmmm
[04:52] <robotgeek> let me and so is Snake__ and bur[n] er 
[04:52] <jjesse> i'll think riddell is packaging quickguide, should i have him package desktopguide instead?
[04:52] <Snake__> anyone want to do then next 15 for me?
[04:52] <Snake__> lol
[04:53] <Snake__> bur[n] er: come here and do 15 more pushups for me...i cant go down again :(
[04:53] <jsgotangco> nahh desktop guide isn't that hot yet
[04:53] <jsgotangco> quickguide is still more appropriate for now
[04:53] <jjesse> do you have quickguide current for dapper?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> almost
[04:53] <jsgotangco> ive edited the menu
[04:53] <jsgotangco> but have to add updated shots
[04:54] <jsgotangco> shouldnt be difficult for this weekend
[04:54] <jjesse> i poked riddell to get the stylesheet applied to the quickguide
[04:54] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:54] <jjesse> so it will look like release notes
[04:54] <jsgotangco> yeah that would be better
[04:54] <Snake__> DONE Ohhh thank god.
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ive removed references saying its a draft doc
[04:55] <jsgotangco> and update the menus
[04:55] <jsgotangco> not that much changes just need to update the text too
[04:55] <jsgotangco> and better screenshots
[04:56] <jjesse> nice i think that once  i get the chapter done i'll be back to hacking away at docs, riddell wants me to get the adept guide done
[04:56] <jjesse> and uploaded to kde docs
[04:56] <jjesse> as adept is now included in sarge
[04:56] <robotgeek> jjesse: heh, i'll be referencing it quite a bit
[04:56] <jsgotangco> sarge?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> really?
[04:56] <jjesse> debian
[04:56] <jjesse> that's what i heard
[04:56] <jsgotangco> you sure its in sarge?
[04:56] <jjesse> its upstream
[04:56] <jjesse> hmmm do
[04:57] <jjesse> doh, whats the testing one called
[04:57] <jsgotangco> i would expect it to be in sid
[04:57] <jjesse> got them confused
[04:57] <jjesse> stupdi me
[04:57] <robotgeek> etch?
[04:57] <Snake__> robotgeek: did we just add games to the kubuntuguide?
[04:57] <jsgotangco> sid
[04:57] <jsgotangco> sid is your experimental
[04:57] <bur[n] er> sid == unstable
[04:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:57] <bur[n] er> experimental == experimental ;)
[04:57] <robotgeek> Snake__: no, no one did. i tht you were taking it up
[04:57] <bur[n] er> etch == testing and sarge == stable and woody == old ;)
[04:58] <Snake__> robotgeek: I am, but I was looking for some refrences I can go off of
[04:58] <jsgotangco> etch is supposed to come late this year but that's wishful thinking
[04:58] <bur[n] er> Snake__: try the ubuntu guide ;)
[04:58] <Snake__> bur[n] er: ah good it is here
[04:58] <Snake__> THEY GOT FROZEN BUBBLE!!
[04:58] <Snake__> YES!!
[04:58] <Snake__> :)
[04:58] <jjesse> the docs aren't even in dapper :(
[04:59] <jsgotangco> not yet
[04:59] <jsgotangco> its ok
[04:59] <jsgotangco> flight 4
[04:59] <jsgotangco> :)
[04:59] <jjesse> this week
[04:59] <Snake__> robotgeek: i'm just going to take what the ubuntu guide has, and expand on it, that okay?
[04:59] <Snake__> expand and customize to kubuntu
[05:01] <jjesse> hmm how wierd is this, i'm running windows xp on my laptop, using vm player to run dapper which i'm current in and conntect via krdc to a windows 2000 professional box
[05:01] <robotgeek> Snake__: sure
[05:01] <jsgotangco> jjesse, evil
[05:01] <Snake__> robotgeek: aight
[05:03] <jjesse> mdke: can you change the link to quickguide on d.u.c it currenlty is looking for kquickguide-web instead of quickguide-web
[05:04] <jjesse> hmm wait isn't that in svn ?
[05:05] <jsgotangco> yeah changing now
[05:05] <jjesse> jsgotangco: just change sidebar.inc.php, not on box w/ svn access
[05:05] <robotgeek> how do we generate those nice preview pages, with status ? use the make file?
[05:05] <jjesse> don't they get built automatically?
[05:06] <jsgotangco> there's a cron job
[05:06] <robotgeek> jjesse: i havent used the make file yet
[05:06] <jjesse> the preview pages on d.u.c ?? or local preview pages?
[05:06] <jsgotangco> d.u.c.
[05:07] <Snake__> Hey I assume you guys know kate pretty well?
[05:07] <Snake__> maybe?
[05:07] <jjesse> robotgeek: which were you asking about?
[05:07] <robotgeek> jjesse: i meant the ones locally
[05:07] <robotgeek> /ubuntu-doc/kubuntu/Makefile?
[05:08] <jsgotangco> jjesse, done
[05:08] <Snake__> help please?
[05:08] <jjesse> Snake__ what do you need help w/ in kate?
[05:08] <Snake__> Is there a way to get 2 terminals in kate?
[05:09] <jjesse> never tried
[05:09] <Snake__> :(
[05:09] <Snake__> I would like to irssi from inside to save resources
[05:10] <jsgotangco> jjesse, d.u.c. is pretty updated it already reflected my changes a few days ago
[05:10] <jjesse> yeah i noticed that it keeps quite current, i point people there from #kubuntu all the time when they want to know what is in dapper
[05:11] <jsgotangco> i should start deleting irrelevant entries
[05:11] <jsgotangco> and images
[05:12] <jsgotangco> heh let me lock down d.u.c. first its showing too much info
[05:14] <Snake__> *sigh*
[05:14] <robotgeek> Snake__: learn how to use screen, one terminal for everything :)
[05:15] <Snake__> robotgeek: I know how to use screen...ah crap im so retarted
[05:15] <Snake__> lol
[05:15] <Snake__> I never think outside the box
[05:16] <jsgotangco> i couldnt find my account
[05:16] <jsgotangco> grr
[05:18] <jsgotangco> mdke, when you come online can you send me the username/pass of the d.u.c. server you sent to me a while back i couldn't find the one that you send me in my email anymore if or if its already disabled, can you create a new acocunt for me i want to lockdown apache
[05:18] <Snake__> robotgeek: ?
[05:18] <jsgotangco> mdke, and some other mad server settings
[05:19] <jsgotangco> mdke, sudo access as well
[05:19] <jsgotangco> mdke, don't worry i won't rm -rf it :)
[05:19] <Snake__> hmmmmm
[05:19] <robotgeek> Snake__: i was hoping jsgotangco would commit the patch
[05:19] <Snake__> lol
[05:19] <robotgeek> Snake__: did you not start irssi in the screen?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> i haven't reviewed the patch
[05:19] <jsgotangco> hold on
[05:20] <Snake__> robotgeek: its in the screen, but I only have on screen, I need 2
[05:20] <Snake__> I can switch between 2 screens when I only have 1 open
[05:20] <Snake__> cant**
[05:21] <robotgeek> Snake__: then you don't know how to use screen :) <ctl + a> + c
[05:22] <Snake__> robotgeek: I can use screen :( Exit konsole, when you irssi back up, screen -r :P
[05:22] <jjesse> ok bed time
[05:23] <Snake__> night jsgotangco 
[05:23] <Snake__> ugh
[05:23] <Snake__> jjesse: night
[05:23] <robotgeek> Snake__: hmm, you can have 2 screens
[05:23] <robotgeek> night jjesse , i think i'll join you as soon as i setup a few things
[05:23] <Snake__> robotgeek: im lookin for a howto now :)
[05:23] <jjesse> robotgeek: do you think my wife will be jealous?
[05:24] <Snake__> jjesse: what, that your giving more time to ubuntu than her?
[05:24] <robotgeek> jjesse: heh, i meant in the act, not in bed :)
[05:24] <Snake__> lol
[05:24] <Snake__> OH MY GOD I DIDNT CATCH THAT
[05:24] <Snake__> ROFL!
[05:25] <Snake__> woo crap I could use some sleep too
[05:29] <bur[n] er> Snake__: you really can "man screen" and it'll tell ya
[05:31] <Snake__> bur[n] er: i got it
[05:34] <jsgotangco> screen is really useful
[05:34] <jsgotangco> ctrl-a ?
[05:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:34] <robotgeek> i mapped to ctl + z
[05:35] <jsgotangco> who says you cant multitask on console
[05:35] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:35] <Snake__> lol
[05:35] <Snake__> how do i switch screens, is ctl a the only way?
[05:35] <robotgeek> who needs a ide, lol
[05:35] <bur[n] er> aww crap jj left
[05:36] <robotgeek> Snake__: ctl + a, space, p n
[05:36] <robotgeek> numbers all work :)
[05:36] <bur[n] er> and a switches back adn forth
[05:37] <Snake__> everytime I press ctrl a the screens cycle throught like their crazy....not really much of a chance to choose what screen i wanna go to
[05:37] <bur[n] er> don't hold it ;)
[05:37] <Snake__> bur[n] er: what do you mean
[05:38] <robotgeek> Snake__: just do ctrl - a , then space
[05:38] <bur[n] er>  Snake__: just play... nevermind ;)
[05:38] <Snake__> WOW
[05:38] <Snake__> thats amazing
[05:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:38] <bur[n] er> lol
[05:38] <bur[n] er> what's not amazing is nautilus crashing on sftp:// connections to a freesshd windows host :\
[05:39] <robotgeek> heh, bur[n] er use lftp :)
[05:39] <bur[n] er> i want a drag/drop gui
[05:39] <bur[n] er> and i just want to open remote files, edit them, save them, without copying it locally
[05:40] <bur[n] er> konq works :)
[05:41] <jsgotangco> scp?
[05:42] <bur[n] er> sftp:// via konq
[05:42] <bur[n] er> same idea
[05:42] <bur[n] er> not sure why I use sftp instead of fish, i just do ;)
[05:42] <jsgotangco> i work remotely most of the time then i scp a server from au to a server in LA
[05:43] <jsgotangco> now *thats* intercontinental
[05:45] <jsgotangco> jeeezz i just finished a half pound of grapes
[05:45] <robotgeek> whoa...long time since i ate grapes
[05:46] <jsgotangco> well not too vegan
[05:46] <jsgotangco> i still like my leather :)
[05:46] <robotgeek> heh
[05:47] <robotgeek> i am doing the non-vegan thing :)
[05:47] <jsgotangco> i sure miss a big mac though sometimes
[05:47] <robotgeek> i don't eat beef, only chicken :)
[05:48] <jsgotangco> its that religion-based?
[05:49] <robotgeek> it was
[05:49] <robotgeek> not eating meat
[05:49] <robotgeek> not eating beef is a matter of taste
[05:49] <robotgeek> vegan for 22 years of my life
[05:50] <jsgotangco> well i understand most indian cultures do that
[05:50] <robotgeek> yup, pretty common
[08:57] <mdke> jsgotangco, eh, lockdown apache?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> ok lockdown isn't the correct term :)
[08:58] <mdke> what do you want to do?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> sex it up so it doesn't show that much info
[08:58] <jsgotangco> you can do it if you want to
[08:59] <mdke> i'm looking for your account
[08:59] <mdke> hmm
[08:59] <mdke> you don't have one, I'll make it
[09:00] <mdke> what username?
[09:00] <jsgotangco> jgotangco would do
[09:08] <mdke> what did I miss?
[09:09] <jsgotangco> what do you think of this distro srpint in london
[09:09] <jsgotangco> that sabdfl thought of
[09:09] <mdke> which one?
[09:10] <jsgotangco> sounder
[09:10] <mdke> argh
[09:11] <jsgotangco> its not in stone yet though, just a random thought from his brain
[09:11] <mdke> ok, i don't understand a word of the first post
[09:11] <mdke> reading marks' now
[09:12] <mdke> nice thought, the problem is that very few of us can probably spare the time off
[09:12] <mdke> and as you say, it is a bit late in the game
[09:13] <mdke> geez, I miss a lot by not reading sounder
[09:15] <mdke> ok i'm off to work
[09:27] <bhuvan> mdke: ping
[09:34] <k31th> Morning 
[09:46] <k31th> mdke is that any thing to do with mandrake ?
[10:42] <rob> hmm.. what did I start on the list?
[10:44] <jsgotangco> the website thread?
[10:44] <rob> I mentioned the web site, then seveas went with it then there was like 20 emails
[10:45] <jsgotangco> :)
[10:46] <rob> hmm, 715 new emails
[10:47] <rob> I haven't checked that on my main pc for two days :(
[10:47] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:47] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, sounder
[10:47] <rob> the sprint sounds like a good idea, as long as people could get time off
[10:48] <jsgotangco> sure
[10:48] <jsgotangco> but its too soon
[10:48] <rob> for dapper?
[10:49] <jsgotangco> not to mention we're almost on freeze during that time
[10:49] <rob> it should be sooner
[10:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:49] <rob> end of march would be freeze, thats still almost 2 months away
[10:50] <jsgotangco> i dunno its too soon but if its to plan for dapper +1 that would be too early
[10:51] <rob> to plan for dapper +1 yeah, it should happen just after dapper is released
[10:51] <rob> but if the aim is to get the docs sorted for dapper itself, now would be good
[10:52] <rob> still a little bit of time left, although I'm picturing a week long sprint
[10:52] <jsgotangco> you interested?
[10:52] <rob> yeah
[10:52] <rob> if the group wants me, that is
[10:54] <jsgotangco> well let's see how it unfolds
[10:54] <rob> yeah, sounds good
[10:55] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: docteam sprint?
[10:56] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, mark suggested it out of nowhere in sounder
[10:56] <rob> maybe one of us should forward the email to ubuntu-doc?
[10:57] <Madpilot> I should probably sign up for sounder...
[10:57] <jsgotangco> yeah sounder is good
[10:57] <rob> yep
[10:57] <jsgotangco> its supposed to be off topic but a lot of good ideas come out of it
[10:57] <rob> its good because people can just throw ideas out there
[11:02] <Madpilot> subbed to sounder now
[12:03] <mdke> bhuvan, pong
[12:04] <bhuvan> mdke, looking for you to discuss about article2moin
[12:04] <bhuvan> do we have any plan on this for dapper ?
[12:04] <mdke> no, i don't think so
[12:04] <mdke> moin hosts html quite nicely
[12:04] <bhuvan> ok!
[12:04] <mdke> so there is no real need to convert stuff to moin markup
[12:05] <bhuvan> so, we will do docbook2html and host it in moin ?
[12:07] <mdke> the html generation will happen the same way as it does now, and then yes, we'll host it in moin
[12:11] <rob> hi mdke 
[12:13] <mdke> hiya
[12:36] <mdke> k31th, no
[12:36] <mdke> they are my initials
[12:37] <k31th> mdke: thats good newa
[12:37] <k31th> news
[12:38] <robotgeek> hey mdke k31th 
[12:39] <mdke> hi
[12:42] <manicka> evening all :)
[12:46] <robotgeek> hey manicka 
[12:46] <manicka> howdy
[01:00] <mhz> kjcole: hey!
[01:00] <mhz> kevin, could show me a nice url where I can see the cookbook, please? ;p
[01:02] <jsgotangco> yeah i'd like to see it in its naked glory too
[01:05] <jsgotangco> show us! show us!
[01:06] <mhz> kjcole: give it to us, daddy boy!
[01:06] <mhz> :D
[01:06] <jsgotangco> you'll never escape this time!
[01:08] <mhz> jsgotangco: 'you'.. as in kjcole? or 'you' as in mhz?
[01:09] <jsgotangco> kjcole heh
[01:09] <kjcole> Having trouble being in two places at once....
[01:19] <mdke> bhuvan, btw did you post on the forums about serverguide feedback?
[01:19] <bhuvan> mdke, no
[01:19] <mdke> do you think it's a good idea?
[01:19] <mdke> I can post here if you like, and get it stickied
[01:19] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45
[01:20] <bhuvan> i'm not a good follower of forums. if you think it would add value, please go ahead
[01:21] <mdke> ok, but you have to subscribe :)
[01:21] <mdke> that way you'll see the feedback and can implement some suggestions, if there are good ones
[01:21] <bhuvan> sure i will
[01:27] <mdke> bhuvan, done
[01:27] <bhuvan> mdke, ok
[01:27] <bhuvan> i have registered myself to forums 
[01:27] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=127112
[01:27] <mdke> cool
[01:28] <jsgotangco> cool
[01:28] <jsgotangco> mdke, how is it difficult to hack up our make script to accomodate 2 edubuntu docs?
[01:29] <mdke> jsgotangco, is this to put them on the website?
[01:29] <mdke> if so, easy
[01:29] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:29] <jsgotangco> for previews/peer review, etc.
[01:29] <mdke> if they were hosted in svn
[01:30] <jsgotangco> yeah it is
[01:30] <jsgotangco> i'm going to clean up the edubuntu folder and retain what's only needed
[01:31] <mdke> okay good
[01:31] <mdke> i'll do the makefile once you've done that
[01:32] <jsgotangco> thanks =)
[01:56] <Kagou> hi
[01:57] <mdke> hello
[01:58] <Kagou> i can't find who is working on each part of the documentation. An example : who's working on cups part of the server guide
[01:59] <mdke> Kagou, we don't assign specific people to sections of documents
[01:59] <mdke> any member can work on any document, and we normally have a contact for each document
[01:59] <Kagou> okay mdke so if i have some suggestions on that part, i'll make a diff an post it on the mailing list ?!
[02:00] <mdke> Kagou, absolutely, that would be great
[02:00] <mdke> Kagou, you are familiar with the source code we use?
[02:00] <Kagou> you mean docbook ?!
[02:00] <mdke> yes
[02:00] <Kagou> not so but that's not a BIG problem 
[02:01] <mdke> cool
[02:01] <mdke> if you prefer, you can send in suggestions and we can convert them to docbook
[02:01] <mdke> don't diff the html version
[02:02] <Kagou> suggestions in plain text ?!
[02:02] <mdke> if you prefer that to docbook, sure
[02:03] <Kagou> ok. thnx mdke. I'll have a look at the doc and try to do some suggestions. The only BIG problem is my english :p (i'm french)
[02:04] <mdke> no problem at all
[02:04] <mdke> your english is obviously fine, anyway there will be plenty of time for spellchecking and so on
[02:05] <Kagou> ok
[02:06] <Kagou> http://help.ubuntu.com/ seem's to be down
[02:08] <mdke> damn
[02:11] <jsgotangco> i didn't do anytihhng!
[02:12] <mdke> :)
[02:13] <Kagou> :D
[02:19] <jjesse> what's wrong?
[02:21] <mdke> our server is down
[02:22] <jsgotangco> i just changed my password a few hours ago :P
[02:23] <jjesse> doh that stinks
[02:23] <mdke> it will be a test of serverpronto's customer service
[02:23] <mdke> I've heard it is rubbish
[02:28] <mdke> btw jjesse we may have a problem with building the kubuntu desktop guide
[02:28] <mdke> it occurred to me that the stupid kde tools don't support things like xincludes and probably not the olinkdb either
[02:28] <mdke> the options are (a) use xsltproc for that guide, or (b) change the guide so it doesn't use that stuff
[02:32] <jsgotangco> stupid kde tools?
[02:32] <mdke> well, they don't
[02:32] <mdke> we always knew that
[02:33] <jsgotangco> seriously though
[02:33] <jsgotangco> that is an issue
[02:33] <mdke> yes it is
[02:34] <mdke> not a new one either
[02:36] <jjesse> to be honest i don't know how much help i will be in this discussion as i'm don't totally understand xincludes and other things like that yet
[03:04] <jsgotangco> brb
[05:57] <mdke> jdub, poke?
[06:17] <Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
[06:18] <Kinnison> well, about eight hours ago, jjesse mentioned you
[06:18] <Kinnison> dunno if that counts as a pinging
[06:18] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[06:19] <Burgwork> how are you KingBahamut 
[06:19] <Burgwork> Kinnison, 
[06:43] <Burgwork> mdke, hmm? got no internet at home, so not much Ubuntu work recently
[06:44] <mdke> bummer
[06:48] <Burgwork> going to be sorting that out today
[06:50] <mdke> jdub, 2 things
[06:50] <mdke> jdub, first I was wondering about the status of start.ubuntu.com
[06:51] <mdke> if it's going to happen, I won't bother worrying about improving and translating the current browser homepage
[06:51] <jdub> ok, will give you status this week
[06:51] <mdke> second was, can you reply to my email about yelp customisations
[06:51] <jdub> hrm, can you send it again?
[06:51] <jdub> well, maybe i'm not the right person to talk to
[06:51] <mdke> jdub, sure
[06:51] <jdub> what was it about?
[06:52] <mdke> you remember we discussing giving the css some ubuntu theming?
[06:52] <jdub> yeah
[06:52] <mdke> it was about whether those should be done for the human theme only, or more widely
[06:53] <jdub> hrm, how do you mean?
[06:53] <jdub> whether it should adapt to other theme colours, or...?
[06:53] <mdke> yelp currently gets its colours from whichever theme the user is using
[06:53] <mdke> it's not very aggressive about those, so we're just talking like text-highlighting and so on
[06:54] <mdke> a possibility would be to start including more brownness generally in the yelp css
[06:55] <mdke> the other possibility is to get yelp to be a bit more aggressive about using theme colours in things like links, headers etc
[06:55] <jdub> yeah
[06:55] <jdub> hrm
[06:55] <mdke> jdub, anyhow, I've resent the mail
[06:55] <jdub> so changing default.css wouldn't be problematic at all
[06:55] <jdub> but there is that weird interaction with themed colour usage
[06:55] <mdke> changing default.css has no effect afaik
[06:55] <mdke> it's all in the xsl templates
[06:56] <jdub> i *imagine* that gtkhtml would interpret the themed colours correctly
[06:56] <jdub> hrm
[06:56] <jdub> sec
[06:56] <jdub> yeah, okay
[06:56] <jdub> so look at yelp-common.xsl
[06:56] <mdke> yes
[06:57] <jdub> it does shit like this:
[06:57] <jdub> { color: </xsl:text> <xsl:value-of select="$yelp.color.gray.fg"/><xsl:text>; }
[06:57] <mdke> yes
[06:57] <mdke> the alternatives are:
[06:57] <jdub> so that's where we'd want to get all patchy wit' it
[06:57] <mdke> { color: #nice-ubuntu-color }
[06:57] <mdke> or
[06:58] <mdke> { color: blah blah yelp.color.bg }
[06:58] <jdub> or do more interesting colourisations with the theme colours...
[06:58] <mdke> so that it uses the theme background or something
[06:58] <jdub> let's call these option A and option B
[06:58] <mdke> ok
[06:58] <jdub> respectively ;)
[06:59] <jdub> option B definitely has a big advantage when it comes to accessibility and so on
[06:59] <jdub> and for those people who are brown-challenged
[06:59] <mdke> nod
[06:59] <mdke> also, we might be able to push something upstream, I think shaun hasn't given much love to the color scheme
[06:59] <jdub> though unless we are very careful, the help viewer will break really badly with stupid themes
[06:59] <mdke> yes, that might be why it is on the conservative side
[06:59] <jdub> hmm
[07:00] <jdub> i think i'd lean towards B
[07:00] <mdke> that's what I figured
[07:00] <jdub> bit toss in some transparent pngs of the ubuntu logo
[07:00] <jdub> like the one from ubuntu-artwork's gdm theme
[07:00] <jdub> s/bit/but/
[07:00] <mdke> ooh interesting
[07:00] <mdke> as a fixed background you mean?
[07:00] <jdub> i mean, we can certainly tart up the html independently of getting the themed colours working better
[07:01] <jdub> oh, no, i more meant as a header bar or something
[07:01] <mdke> i don't know how to do that via pure css
[07:01] <jdub> though you could have a fixed position bar at navigation bar at the top of the help browser
[07:02] <jdub> nothing's stopping us from diddling with the html :)
[07:02] <mdke> which html?
[07:02] <jdub> but yeah, we could get a bunch of this done with css alone
[07:02] <jdub> the html that the stylesheets spit out
[07:02] <mdke> hmm
[07:02] <jdub> it's not to hard to diddle with
[07:02] <jdub> too
[07:02] <mdke> yeah we might be able to knock something up
[07:02] <mdke> ok
[07:03] <mdke> i gtg home
[07:03] <mdke> I'll play around, and mail you some more
[07:03] <jdub> ok
[07:03] <jdub> happy to help with things where i can
[07:03] <mdke> thanks
[07:03] <jdub> and i can point you to more useful people if required ;)
[07:04] <mdke> ok, but you're a hard man to pin down
[07:04] <jdub> i'll be a bit easier until the 14th
[07:04] <jdub> when i'll be travelling again
[07:04] <jdub> going to OSWC and FOSDEM
[07:04] <mdke> ah ok
[07:05] <mdke> i'm off then, thanks
[07:05] <jdub> oh, well, your email covered most of that
[07:05] <jdub> !
[08:57] <mdke> jdub, ugh, using yelp.selected.bg is not really an option: the brown is not dark enough to work with text. Any idea if there are various shades of brown in the human theme?
[08:58] <mdke> http://mdke.org/images/selected.bg.png
[08:58] <LaserJock> mdke: I thought there was an Ubuntu palette somewhere on the artwork site
[08:59] <mdke> LaserJock, problem is I'm trying to get the colors directly from the theme, rather than using fixed colors
[08:59] <LaserJock> ah, I see. BTW, it is too light
[08:59] <mdke> yes, quite
[09:03] <mdke> aha
[09:03] <mdke> found something
[09:08] <mdke> http://mdke.org/images/selected.dark2.png
[09:10] <mdke> that works rather well with various themes
[09:11] <manicka> nice
[09:12] <Burgwork> mdke, I like it
[09:13] <mdke> actually I see no reason why yelp upstream wouldn't use it
[09:13] <mdke> i'll get onto them
[09:14] <LaserJock> mdke: much easier on the eyes ;-)