[12:01] <marcin_ant> anyway our brilliant idea is to create ... 3 packages
[12:01] <ogra> youre not allowed to run apt from postinst ... (and it wouldnt work anyway)
[12:02] <Kyral> guy on GNOMEFiles asked for feedback on a debpack he made. I think I'll run lintain on it and send him the results :D
[12:02] <marcin_ant> ogra, v-c + v-c-mysql-local + v-c-mysql-remote
[12:03] <ogra>  v-c-mysql-local || v-c-mysql-remote -> dependency on v-c
[12:03] <marcin_ant> ogra, so then user could first run apt-get install vtiger-crm-mysql-local if he want to install vtiger locally and mysql-server as dependency
[12:03] <marcin_ant> ogra, exactly
[12:03] <ogra> that will work ...
[12:03] <marcin_ant> ogra, but then what if user will run apt-get install v-c first?
[12:04] <ogra> he can ... but will only have the plain non working frontend
[12:05] <marcin_ant> aaaah..
[12:05] <ogra> see cacti ...
[12:05] <marcin_ant> so depencency is not v-c -> v-c-mysql-local..... but v-c-mysql-local -> v-c :) ?
[12:05] <ogra> yup
[12:06] <marcin_ant> so cacti needs cacti-mysql-local ;)
[12:06] <ogra> heh
[12:06] <ogra> other way round ;)
[12:06] <ogra> cacti-mysql-local needs cacti ...
[12:07] <ogra> but cacti can be installed alone and you modify the config manually ...
[12:07] <marcin_ant> sure but that's not the "debian way" right?
[12:07] <marcin_ant> or ubuntu - "just works"
[12:07] <ogra> dunno ... it sounds sane and wont violate the policy ...
[12:08] <raphink> phanatic: in case you didn't recieve the mail, nanoweb is NEW
[12:08] <ogra> since cacti-mysql-local will still follow the policy and cacti itself is no DB app that has automatic configuration ...
[12:08] <phanatic> raphink: thanks. i didn't receive any mails, just see nanoweb on my launchpad acc
[12:09] <raphink> phanatic: hehe
[12:09] <marcin_ant> ok so.... I will create few packages - v-c-mysql-local - with mysql-server as dependency and with autoconfiguration stuff
[12:09] <raphink> phanatic: which is always nice to see :)
[12:09] <marcin_ant> so it will get admin password from default maint account in /etc/mysql/debian.cnf
[12:09] <ogra> yup ... but note that it must be possible to override the autoconfig with a higher debconf priority
[12:09] <marcin_ant> 100% automagic setup for user
[12:10] <marcin_ant> and then v-c-mysql-remote that should allow user to define remote host with mysql up and running
[12:10] <phanatic> raphink: yeah, now there are two of them :)
[12:10] <ogra> so admins who dont want autoconfig are able to override
[12:10] <ogra> yup
[12:10] <raphink> phanatic: :)
[12:11] <marcin_ant> and finally v-c as just something that will install php/html/jpg/etc. stuff
[12:11] <marcin_ant> ogra, vtiger is pretty weird because they cannot avoid autoconfig to use thins
[12:11] <marcin_ant> this
[12:12] <marcin_ant> ogra, because when you just unzip sources to apache directory and try to login to vtiger than it goes to 'install.php' page
[12:13] <marcin_ant> ogra, that examines system settings and then sets up database connection
[12:14] <marcin_ant> ogra, the thing with debian package is that it can only move this magic to debconf
[12:14] <ogra> sounds like mediawiki ... have a look at that one
[12:14] <marcin_ant> ogra, so if you configure 'connection.php' with some postinst script then this 'install.php' will be filled with these values
[12:15] <raphink> that was my idea too marcin_ant
[12:15] <raphink> this install.php thing is annoying
[12:15] <raphink> ideally it would have to be launched as root
[12:15] <raphink> but that can't be done safely
[12:15] <marcin_ant> raphink, I know that this install.php is annoying but I don't want to modify too much php code
[12:16] <raphink> I totally agree marcin_ant
[12:16] <marcin_ant> raphink, it's enough to generate connection.php from postinst script
[12:16] <raphink> that's where this package is kind of a mess
[12:16] <raphink> yes, agreed
[12:17] <marcin_ant> raphink, then if you got database configured and you got these settings in connection.php
[12:17] <marcin_ant> raphink, then on install.php you only click "ok" and the only thing you can change is vtiger admin name and password
[12:18] <raphink> yes
[12:18] <raphink> that's the idea
[12:18] <sistpoty> why don't I get karma for uploading packages? *g*
[12:18] <marcin_ant> raphink, I got it already but I had to decide what to do with mysql-server
[12:19] <raphink> ok
[12:19] <raphink> sistpoty: lol
[12:19] <raphink> sistpoty: karma is for people who need it, you don't ;)
[12:19] <marcin_ant> sistpoty, wanna buy my karma ;) ?
[12:19] <sistpoty> raphink: hrhr
[12:20] <sistpoty> marcin_ant: no, I want my own... maybe I should file a bug against LP *g*
[12:20] <dolson> I love karamel
[12:20] <marcin_ant> sistpoty, just a joke ;)
[12:20] <sistpoty> same here ;)
[12:21] <marcin_ant> sistpoty, but in fact ppl sell stupid things such as weapon in games... so maybe add 'karma shop' to launchpad ;)
[12:21] <sistpoty> oh, maybe I could sell some of my karma on ebay :)
[12:22] <sistpoty> 100 pts of karma and one free wireless network cable ;)
[12:22] <marcin_ant> raphink, another thing is that I got problems with this connection.php stuff... my scripts that generate values are ok
[12:23] <raphink> marcin_ant: one thing that worries me with generating this connection.php stuff from a script is when we'll have to update the package
[12:23] <marcin_ant> raphink, but when trying to install or reinstall package
[12:23] <raphink> marcin_ant: are we sure we can still generate this file in the next version of v-c ?
[12:23] <marcin_ant> raphink, apt-get says that "Not replacing deleted config file ...../connection.php' and it refuses to regenerate it
[12:24] <marcin_ant> raphink, anyway I'll try to resolve this
[12:24] <raphink> marcin_ant: did you add this file as a config file in debian/ ?
[12:24] <sistpoty> now a serious question for a difference: worlded is in dep-wait on amd64, but I get no clue from the "buildlog": http://librarian.launchpad.net/1559726/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-amd64.worlded_0.1.3-7build2.txt.gz
[12:24] <marcin_ant> raphink, well not
[12:24] <sistpoty> really weird in it is: "sh: /dev/null: Permission denied"
[12:25] <marcin_ant> raphink, because I got connection.template and I do some magic trick from dbconfig to generate connection.php
[12:25] <marcin_ant> raphink, I'll try to work on this later
[12:25] <raphink> marcin_ant: ok
[12:25] <raphink> marcin_ant: I guess the package builds already?
[12:25] <marcin_ant> raphink, now I want to try this mysql-server things
[12:26] <raphink> marcin_ant: upload it to REVU now imo
[12:26] <raphink> so we can begin to have a look at some stuff, even small details
[12:26] <marcin_ant> raphink, yup but there is a lot of things I want to do and change - I got separate packages for themes - but not fully functional. and language packs... etc
[12:26] <raphink> and while you're working on this, some parts will already be fixed so you can be quite sure to have it in dapper
[12:27] <marcin_ant> raphink, I'll upload it tomorrow
[12:27] <raphink> marcin_ant: do you use separate source packages ?
[12:27] <raphink> or do you have one big package source that generates lots of binaries ?
[12:27] <marcin_ant> raphink, hmm propably for lang packs
[12:27] <raphink> I don't remember whether upstream had one tarball per module
[12:28] <marcin_ant> raphink, but themes are from "big source"
[12:28] <raphink> good
[12:28] <raphink> marcin_ant: btw, what do you think of my answer to tim?
[12:29] <marcin_ant> anyway I want to work on it for a few hours and then I'll upload to revu today at night or tomorrow morning
[12:29] <raphink> ok sure :)
[12:29] <raphink> marcin_ant: ping me when it's done
[12:29] <raphink> marcin_ant: if you can add debian/watch files, that'll help, too :)
[12:29] <raphink> to review mostly :)
[12:30] <phanatic> to all motus except raphink: could you have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1628 ? :)
[12:31] <marcin_ant> raphink, about answer - it's nice and I hope that I'll upload to revu soon and then we tim should decide what to do with bounty
[12:31] <raphink> phanatic: :p
[12:31] <raphink> marcin_ant: sure :)
[12:31] <marcin_ant> raphink, afair he considered more money for this bounty so he could do something to make you and me feel better ;)
[12:31] <raphink> marcin_ant: would be nice to file an ITP on it, too
[12:32] <raphink> so all your work doesn't get lost when it's packaged for Debian
[12:32] <phanatic> raphink: you already gave it a go ;)
[12:32] <marcin_ant> raphink, another thing is that this is only beginng for me
[12:33] <marcin_ant> raphink, I mean - my work with vtiger
[12:33] <raphink> marcin_ant: sure, and I hope you will maintain it
[12:33] <marcin_ant> raphink, package is only first stage
[12:33] <marcin_ant> raphink, what is ITP?
[12:33] <raphink> Intend To Package
[12:33] <raphink> this is in Debian
[12:33] <raphink> to tell that you're working on a package to be included in Debian
[12:33] <raphink> so people don't begin to work on it
[12:34] <raphink> marcin_ant: most of the programs we have in universe come from Debian
[12:34] <raphink> marcin_ant: so it someone in Debian packages v-c before you get it in
[12:34] <raphink> marcin_ant: your package will be overriden by the Debian one in Ubuntu
[12:34] <raphink> which would be a shame, after such a great work
[12:34] <marcin_ant> raphink, heh it sucks ;)
[12:34] <raphink> so you better file an ITP or an RFP in Debian
[12:34] <marcin_ant> raphink, it's by default?
[12:35] <raphink> ITP means you wna to get your packag ein Debian and maintain it there
[12:35] <sistpoty> phanatic: I'll take a look (in 15-30mins)
[12:35] <raphink> RFP means you wnat this package to be in Debian an dproposes your version, but they have to find a maintainer that is free to modify it before uploading it
[12:35] <phanatic> sistpoty: thanks a lot
[12:35] <marcin_ant> raphink, for example if my package in ubuntu is much better than debian one?
[12:35] <raphink> marcin_ant: there are about 16000 packages in universe, we are 40 MOTUs or so
[12:35] <raphink> we can't maintain them
[12:35] <phanatic> raphink: can i use ubuntu's reportbug to file an ITP?
[12:36] <raphink> marcin_ant: we might make exceptions, but it's much better to just file an ITP or at least a RFP
[12:36] <raphink> phanatic: nope
[12:36] <raphink> phanatic: you have to be in a sid chroot ;)
[12:36] <ogra> marcin_ant, if its a ubuntu bounty i'd simply package a -1ubuntu1 version
[12:36] <marcin_ant> raphink, SABDFL could hire me - I could work as MOTU (I think so ;) )
[12:36] <raphink> ogra: how about if Debian packages it and then upgrades to -2 ?
[12:36] <ogra> so it wont be overridden by a debian package
[12:36] <phanatic> raphink: that's bad news...
[12:36] <raphink> marcin_ant: MOTU is volunteer work
[12:36] <raphink> marcin_ant: it' snot paid ;)
[12:37] <ogra> it still wont be overrridden
[12:37] <raphink> ogra: why?
[12:37] <marcin_ant> raphink, I know that... unfortunately ;)
[12:37] <raphink> marcin_ant: well there's a hope to be taken in as core deve
[12:37] <raphink> :)
[12:37] <raphink> dev
[12:37] <ogra> raphink, did you do manual merges the last weeks ?
[12:37] <raphink> ogra: no
[12:37] <raphink> hmm I did before UVF
[12:37] <ogra> see
[12:38] <raphink> ogra: so what?
[12:38] <ogra> manual merges result from XubuntuX versions ...
[12:38] <raphink> it'll be overriden in dapper+1 that's all?
[12:38] <ogra> they wont just get synced
[12:38] <marcin_ant> ok anyway back to work.. and I'll upload package to revu tomorrow and I'l file this ITP
[12:38] <raphink> s/?//
[12:38] <ogra> nope
[12:38] <marcin_ant> raphink, is there some url where I could read about ITP procedure?
[12:38] <raphink> ogra: unless we don't want it overriden, as this is the case with wesnoth for ex
[12:39] <ogra> XubuntuX versions never get overridden unless you told the ftpmaster to do it ..
[12:39] <raphink> marcin_ant: you'll need a sid chroot or system to do that first
[12:39] <raphink> ogra: oh ok :)
[12:39] <raphink> ogra: unless you take the new version from debian, check the diff and decide to apply the patches or not
[12:40] <marcin_ant> raphink, hmm definetly not today...
[12:40] <ogra> thats why we want to keep the amount of xubuntuX packages small ..
[12:40] <raphink> marcin_ant: not urgent at all
[12:40] <ogra> raphink, or just sync the debian version ... but it wont get autosynced
[12:40] <raphink> ogra: so theorically, packages that got in from REVU should not be overriden
[12:40] <ogra> exactly
[12:40] <raphink> ogra: how about klibido then?
[12:40] <raphink> Tonio got a great verison in through REVU
[12:41] <ajmitch_> who wants to write up an f-spot UVF exception request for me?
[12:41] <raphink> then the Debian version replaced it
[12:41] <raphink> with a trashy package like I hardly ever saw
[12:41] <raphink> before
[12:41] <ogra> and if you guys work on a bunty package i think your interest is not to have it automatically overwritten
[12:41] <raphink> of course ogra  :)
[12:42] <marcin_ant> ehh I also got a lot of pretty nice emacs packages... but they are not ready for revu yet - I use them... anyway need to go from irc now
[12:42] <marcin_ant> reboot to dapper and try to fight with this mysql stuff
[12:42] <raphink> marcin_ant: great :)
[12:42] <raphink> hehe
[12:42] <raphink> marcin_ant: you know you could use a dapper pbuilder
[12:42] <raphink> instead of another system
[12:43] <raphink> marcin_ant: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[12:43] <marcin_ant> raphink, sure I know but I installed dapper so want to use from time to time ;)
[12:43] <raphink> takes about 10 miinutes witha good connection
[12:43] <raphink> marcin_ant: you could also set a dchroot with your installed dapper system
[12:44] <raphink> ;)
[12:44] <raphink> so you don't have to reboot
[12:44] <raphink> ;)
[12:44] <phanatic> raphink: could i use this for reportbug? :)
[12:44] <raphink> phanatic: you can install a sid chroot
[12:44] <raphink> phanatic: and run reportbug from within it
[12:44] <raphink> works, I've done it
[12:44] <raphink> :)
[12:45] <marcin_ant> raphink, sure but dapper is now my 'workstation'
[12:45] <raphink> ok
[12:45] <phanatic> ok, i'll try to do that then :)
[12:45] <raphink> same on my comp marcin_ant :)
[12:45] <phanatic> hope it doesn't use much disk space
[12:45] <marcin_ant> raphink, I had to move systems few days ago so
[12:46] <marcin_ant> raphink, so I had dapper + windows 2000 on one machine and mandriva on another...
[12:46] <raphink> marcin_ant: right now I work on tiber, sshed from my dapper machine, sshed from my sister's machine on which I'm connected in XDMCP from this laptop running knoppix in telinit 2
[12:46] <raphink> that's the best option I found
[12:46] <raphink> lol
[12:46] <marcin_ant> raphink, but then some ugly bastard broken udev packages in dapper so I had to install breezy
[12:46] <phanatic> lol :)
[12:46] <ogra> that'd be Keybuk ...
[12:47] <marcin_ant> raphink, and now I got dapper + breezy on one machine and moved windows to my old machine...
[12:47] <phanatic> i have both, using a common /home dir :)
[12:47] <raphink> phanatic: beah, not a good idea ;)
[12:47] <marcin_ant> phanatic, of course - the same here...
[12:48] <marcin_ant> raphink, who cares ;)
[12:48] <raphink> lol
[12:48] <marcin_ant> anyway... I need to go... and package, package, package ;)
[12:48] <marcin_ant> see you
[12:49] <raphink> cya :)
[12:49] <raphink> good luck marcin_ant :)
[12:49] <phanatic> raphink: why not?
[12:49] <raphink> phanatic: why not what?
[12:51] <phanatic> why isn't the shared /home dir a good idea?
[12:51] <raphink> phanatic: because different systems with different versions of programs generate different settings
[12:51] <raphink> that might not be inter-compatible
[12:52] <phanatic> okay, that's right
[12:52] <raphink> :)
[12:52] <phanatic> now i'm using breezy only for grub management anyway :)
[12:53] <raphink> ok
[12:54] <raphink> phanatic: you're on K/X/Ed//Ubuntu ?
[12:54] <raphink> well frmo your packages I'd guess Kubuntu actually
[12:54] <phanatic> wrong guess ;)
[12:55] <raphink> hmm
[12:55] <raphink> yeah I thought you were the one doing kblogger
[12:55] <raphink> but no, you did gnome-rdp
[12:55] <raphink> so ubuntu
[12:55] <raphink> ;)
[12:55] <phanatic> that's right ;)
[12:55] <raphink> I guess ;)
[12:55] <raphink> hehe
[12:55] <raphink> talking about grub, would you like to package a ubuntu-grubsplashimages?
[12:55] <phanatic> i have xfce installed, but that's for dapper only (gnome gets broken sometimes)
[12:56] <raphink> phanatic: I made a kubuntu-grub-splashimages package some time ago
[12:56] <raphink> and the idea that I have is that many people have double boots, at least with windows
[12:56] <raphink> and get a B&W boot screen, when there are great grub splashs around
[12:57] <phanatic> i also use one found on ubuntuforums :)
[12:57] <raphink> so for dapper+1 (too late for dapper) I'd like to have ubuntu and kubuntu grub-splashimages by default
[12:57] <raphink> phanatic: yes you can install some because you're an advanced user
[12:57] <raphink> but most users won't hack their menu.lst
[12:57] <raphink> and we don't want them to
[12:57] <phanatic> you're right
[12:57] <tseng> there isnt much reason to have a splash image for 2 seconds imo
[12:57] <tseng> unless you will only show it with the menu
[12:57] <tseng> not the default boot
[12:57] <raphink> tseng: I'm not speaking of the auto boot
[12:58] <raphink> I'm talking of people with doublt boots
[12:58] <phanatic> raphink: so i could use your package to create one for ubuntu?
[12:58] <tseng> well more power too you, if its just as readable on all screens
[12:58] <raphink> many people still have windows
[12:58] <raphink> phanatic: I guess
[12:59] <raphink> phanatic: if you want to do it that is
[01:00] <sistpoty> phanatic: for sysinfo: there is still old fsf-adress in source, please talk to upstream to fix it (no packaging issue though)
[01:00] <phanatic> i have to get some splashimages for gnome-look, right?
[01:00] <phanatic> sistpoty: okay
[01:01] <raphink> phanatic: yes, there are some listed on the ubuntu wiki too
[01:01] <raphink> phanatic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork migh thave some
[01:02] <phanatic> raphink: i think i'll have a look at your package
[01:02] <raphink> phanatic: it's archived on REVU, you can have a look at it there
[01:03] <raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1163
[01:03] <phanatic> i already apt-get source'd it :)
[01:03] <raphink> hehe
[01:04] <raphink> any comment is welcome :)
[01:04] <sistpoty> phanatic: sysinfo is fine... I'll upload in a minute ;)
[01:05] <phanatic> raphink: i've never been a regexp expert, so i have to understand all that first :)
[01:05] <phanatic> sistpoty: thanks for your time
[01:06] <sistpoty> np
[01:06] <raphink> phanatic: hehe
[01:07] <phanatic> everytime i see a sed command, i think of magic :)
[01:07] <raphink> hehe
[01:08] <phanatic> but this one seems quite easy to understand
[01:08] <phanatic> fortunately :)
[01:08] <raphink> good :)
[01:08] <raphink> it's not too complicate a set of scripts
[01:10] <phanatic> omg, it's cdbs... another thing i have to learn :)
[01:10] <phanatic> i used to package some years ago, and there wasn't cdbs that time...
[01:11] <raphink> phanatic: cdbs is very easy
[01:11] <raphink> leave it as such and it'll work ;)
[01:11] <raphink> I think this debian/rules has only 2 lintes
[01:11] <raphink> lines
[01:11] <raphink> iircx
[01:12] <phanatic> yeah :)
[01:12] <raphink> iirc all you have to do to make a package for ubuntu splashimages
[01:12] <phanatic> but i like the verbose one... i like to see what it does you know :)
[01:12] <raphink> is to put the splashimages as xpm.gz in the root
[01:12] <phanatic> yes :)
[01:12] <raphink> and update the name of the default one in the postinst script
[01:12] <raphink> rename the package to ubuntu-grub-splashimages
[01:13] <phanatic> i'll collect some tomorrow, and upload the package to revu
[01:13] <raphink> and that's it
[01:13] <raphink> ok
[01:13] <raphink> :)
[01:13] <phanatic> i also have to work on my app :)
[01:13] <phanatic> still under heavy development
[01:13] <raphink> what is your app phanatic ?
[01:13] <phanatic> gbzr
[01:13] <phanatic> gui for bzr
[01:14] <phanatic> :)
[01:14] <raphink> nice
[01:14] <phanatic> :)
[01:15] <phanatic> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/chroot dpkg --force-depends --install
[01:15] <phanatic> i get this while trying to build a sid chroot
[01:16] <phanatic> debootstrap
[01:16] <phanatic> any ideas how to workaroung this? simply running as root?
[01:16] <psusi> eh?
[01:17] <phanatic> i'll try
[01:17] <sistpoty> phanatic: you won't be able to chroot as non-root, will you?
[01:17] <phanatic> yeah
[01:18] <phanatic> debootstrap doesn't use sudo
[01:18] <phanatic> i run it now as root
[01:18] <phanatic> done :)
[01:32] <phanatic> when i file an ITP against my package in ubuntu, shall i point them to the source package in ubuntu?
[01:32] <ajmitch_> if you file an ITP, it means you want to maintain it in debian
[01:35] <phanatic> ajmitch_: then i also have to find a dd to support it right?
[01:36] <ajmitch_> to sponsor uploads for you
[01:37] <phanatic> last time i tried (3 yrs ago), it was really hard to find a sponsor :(
[01:38] <Amaranth> phanatic: file a RFP
[01:41] <phanatic> Amaranth: ok
[01:48] <chillywilly> is there any way to just download a package and all it's dependencies as debs?
[01:49] <sistpoty> chillywilly: apt-get has an option to do only the download (--download-only iirc)...
[01:50] <sistpoty> chillywilly: these will go to usual place /var/cache/apt/archives
[01:50] <chillywilly> right.......and if I do --reinstall it will grab the dependencies fresh if they're not in the cache?
[01:51] <sistpoty> chillywilly: I guess so, but I'm not sure about that one
[01:51] <chillywilly> fudge
[01:58] <LaserJock> anybody around?
[01:58] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sure
[01:59] <LaserJock> hmm, I've been asking some questions in #macosx and #darwinports and nobody has answered. I though maybe they couldn't see me :(
[02:00] <sistpoty> Kyral: what's about LaserJock... did he write s.th.? *g*
[02:00] <Kyral> no
[02:00] <LaserJock> well, I'm having a heck of a time with OSX
[02:00] <Kyral> I was proving I could see him by bopping him
[02:01] <Kyral> Because usually to bop someone you need to be able to see them, right?
[02:01] <sistpoty> I guess so
[02:02] <LaserJock> argghh, I can't get X11 to work/install right
[02:02] <LaserJock> and everybody refuses to answer my questions it seems
[02:57] <chillywilly> is there an easy way to rebuild the kernel source for our existing kernel but not actually make  deb for it but just have a configured and built source tree, e.g. 'make dep modules' ?
[02:57] <chillywilly> I have built this wanpipe driver but one of the modules complains about versions
[02:58] <chillywilly> driver/module
[02:59] <chillywilly> af_wanpipe: disagrees about version of symbol stock_register, af_wanpipe: unknown symbol sock_register
[02:59] <chillywilly> hmmm, actually it's probably missing something
[02:59] <sistpoty> chillywilly: you can install linux-source (or linux-source-VERSION)...
[03:00] <sistpoty> chillywilly: not quite sure if it contains the .config though (but I found it at least somewhere) and then you can make oldconfig
[03:01] <chillywilly> ok, I did that
[03:01] <chillywilly> and I also copied over the .config from /bot/config-BLAH
[03:01] <chillywilly> then ran
[03:01] <chillywilly> make menuconfig and saved it
[03:01] <chillywilly> then did sudo make dep modules and built the wanpipe drivers
[03:03] <sistpoty> chillywilly: and the built succeeded?
[03:03] <chillywilly> yea
[03:03] <sistpoty> chillywilly: and with your rebuilt kernel you can't load it? have you tried depmod -a?
[03:04] <chillywilly> well I am not acutally rebuilding the kernel
[03:04] <chillywilly> just configuring it and building it but it's not being installed or anything
[03:05] <chillywilly> just built enough so I can build the wanpipe drivers against the source
[03:05] <chillywilly> but I am not sure the build I made matches the kernel 100%
[03:05] <sistpoty> chillywilly: did you change anything in .config?
[03:06] <chillywilly> I think I remember having to remove one wan driver because it failed to compile
[03:06] <chillywilly> unselect it
[03:06] <chillywilly> cycx.c had errors
[03:06] <chillywilly> not sure how I am supposed to fix that
[03:06] <chillywilly> if I grab the source package for my running kernel and use the same .config shouldn't I get the same kernel?
[03:07] <chillywilly> *sigh*
[03:07] <chillywilly> this has been one hell of a day
[03:07] <sistpoty> chillywilly: you should, if you use same compiler as well
[03:07] <chillywilly> I should just build the kernel and istall it?
[03:07] <chillywilly> is that what you're saying?
[03:08] <sistpoty> I'd give that a try...
[03:09] <chillywilly> yea I was hoping to avoid that
[03:09] <sistpoty> if you change anything within the .config, you'll get a slightly different kernel (and thus may have other symbols exported from the kernel)
[03:09] <chillywilly> can I tell what compiler my running kernel was built with?
[03:10] <crimsun> cat /proc/version
[03:10] <chillywilly> I would think it would be gcc-3.3
[03:10] <chillywilly> different than the one I have instaled
[03:10] <shaya> just wondering if there's an eta on a new beagle?
[03:10] <sistpoty> hi crimsun btw ;)
[03:10] <crimsun> 'lo sistpoty :)
[03:10] <chillywilly> gues I probably shouldn't be trying to take shorcuts
[03:10] <chillywilly> shortcuts too
[03:11] <sistpoty> shaya: when it's ready :P
[03:11] <chillywilly> alright I'll buil the kernel, install it, and then rebuild my wanpipe stuff
[03:13] <sistpoty> lol, the best package FTBFS message so far: "make: Entering an unknown directory"
[03:30] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: you usually just need the appropriate headers package installed, unless the module does wacky things
[03:32] <chillywilly> well I have version mismatches
[03:32] <chillywilly> or some such thing
[03:32] <chillywilly> maybe I need to compile something else in, I don't know all I know is this sucks a lot :)
[03:33] <ajmitch_> dapper? breezy?
[03:33] <chillywilly> 2 days down no website no email
[03:33] <chillywilly> breezy
[03:33] <chillywilly> wouldn't run dapper in production
[03:33] <ajmitch_> heh
[03:33] <ajmitch_> you're just not brave enough ;)
[03:33] <chillywilly> nope
[03:33] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[03:34] <Hobbsee> especially if you need a wireless card!
[03:34] <ajmitch_> Hobbsee: nothing wrong with wireless in dapper
[03:34] <ajmitch_> nor in breezy, for that matter
[03:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch_: only the fact that ndiswrapper wont run unless you compile it yourself...apart from that, no, wireless is fine in dapper
[03:34] <chillywilly> when I run the Setup.sh script it wants the configured linux source tree apparentl
[03:35] <Hobbsee> it needs updating, and i couldnt get it to work
[03:35] <ajmitch_> oh, who uses ndiswrapper though?
[03:35] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: strange, you should be able to use the /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[03:36] <chillywilly> I do have that installed
[03:36] <ajmitch_> maybe it wants /usr/src/linux to point there?
[03:36] <chillywilly> I would need to point it to the right place using --with-linux
[03:36] <ajmitch_> /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)/.config exists for the headers also
[03:37] <chillywilly> ok
[03:38] <chillywilly> hmmm, I don't have those
[03:38] <Hobbsee> ajmitch_: i do, my card isnt supported!
[03:38] <Hobbsee> lol
[03:38] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: install the package
[03:39] <chillywilly> I have linux-kernel-headers insalled
[03:39] <chillywilly> installed too
[03:39] <ajmitch_> wrong one
[03:39] <crimsun> l-k-h is for libc6
[03:40] <ajmitch_> that's for userspace apps needed headers
[03:40] <crimsun> you want linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[03:40] <chillywilly> ok
[03:40] <chillywilly> linux-headers-2.6.11-1-amd64-k8-smp
[03:40] <chillywilly> I can't win today
[03:40] <crimsun> oh good god, not /that/ package.
[03:41] <chillywilly> sorry...
[03:41] <crimsun> I really hope that's not for linux-image-2.6.11-1 from universe
[03:41] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: you really shouldn't have that kernel running on breezy
[03:41] <chillywilly> probably a backport
[03:42] <chillywilly> well I can istall a new one now
[03:42] <ajmitch_> as in, it's a _really_ bad idea that was regretted from hoary
[03:42] <chillywilly> which one should I get?
[03:42] <ajmitch_> breezy has 2.6.12
[03:42] <chillywilly> k
[03:42] <ajmitch_> so 2.6.12-10 is current in breezy-updates, iirc
[03:43] <sistpoty> args... ubuntu did it again (import of a newer upstream version than debian which breaks stuff at the other end) :(
[03:43] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: hm?
[03:43] <ajmitch_> which package?
[03:43] <sistpoty> openh323
[03:43] <ajmitch_> and was it MOTUs doing bad things, or main developers on crack?
[03:43] <chillywilly> last time I tried a more up to date kernel 2.6.12 the thing oops'd on me right away
[03:43] <sistpoty> *g*
[03:44] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: that's a Bad Thing
[03:44] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: you know where to look ;)
[03:44] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: ah, I see who to point fingers at now
[03:44] <chillywilly> linux-image-2.6.12-10-amd64-k8-smp
[03:44] <chillywilly> I'll try that one
[03:44] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: grab linux-headers-2.6.12-10-amd64-k8-smp
[03:45] <ajmitch_> if those are the package names
[03:45] <chillywilly> well eveything works right now with this card but as soon as there's more traffic during the day I lose packets
[03:45] <freeflying|sleep> I can not upload package to REVU now , may anyone help me
[03:46] <ajmitch_> freeflying|sleep: what's the problem?
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep> ajmitch_:
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep> Uploading via ftp skim_1.4.4-0ubuntu2.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of skim_1.4.4-0ubuntu2.dsc
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
[03:46] <ajmitch_> we have the resident REVU guru here to fix things
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
[03:46] <ajmitch_> aha
[03:46] <ajmitch_> don't use dcut
[03:46] <freeflying|sleep> ajmitch_: I've not used dcut
[03:46] <chillywilly> off peak hours I get like 1, 3, and 11% loss and during peak hours I get 40-60% packet loss
[03:46] <ajmitch_> freeflying: try again now
[03:47] <sistpoty> freeflying|sleep: dcut won't work, but I'll take a look at the "incoming queue" ;)
[03:47] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: I just cleared it
[03:47] <sistpoty> :)
[03:47] <freeflying> ajmitch_: sistpoty : thx a lot . it works now
[03:47] <ajmitch_> ok, I see the orig.tar.gz being uploaded, looks ok
[03:47] <chillywilly> here goes noting
[03:47] <chillywilly> nothing to
[03:47] <chillywilly> o
[03:48] <chillywilly> thanks buddy :)
[03:48] <freeflying> will anyone review skim for me , this package is already in universe ,
[03:48] <ajmitch_> take care of it, it's the only one I have :)
[03:48] <chillywilly> too much crap on this big server takes forever to boot
[03:49] <chillywilly> seems like every component has its own BIOS
[03:49] <chillywilly> there we go
[03:49] <chillywilly> big fugly stack trace of shit
[03:49] <chillywilly> no, dice man
[03:49] <chillywilly> it just crapped all over my screen
[03:49] <chillywilly> :(((
[03:51] <sistpoty> freeflying: I'll take a look
[03:51] <ajmitch_> nasty
[03:51] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: can you grab the oops & report a bug on that?
[03:51] <chillywilly> how?
[03:52] <freeflying> sistpoty: and need UVF ?
[03:52] <ajmitch_> fingers are for typing ;)
[03:52] <chillywilly> heh
[03:52] <sistpoty> freeflying: is it another new upstream version?
[03:52] <chillywilly> in the mean time I am back to building my own kernel
[03:52] <freeflying> sistpoty: no , just fix something
[03:52] <ajmitch_> just dist-upgrade to dapper
[03:52] <ajmitch_> it'll solve all your problems
[03:52] <sistpoty> freeflying: then there is no need for an UVF exception
[03:53] <chillywilly> ajmitch_: I really don't want to be here all night though
[03:54] <freeflying> sistpoty: thx
[03:54] <sistpoty> np
[03:55] <ajmitch_> chillywilly: any clues from the oops as to what it was doing?
[03:55] <chillywilly> no, not really but I didn't look close
[03:55] <chillywilly> I can easily reproduce this some other time
[03:55] <ajmitch_> might be some boot options for workarounds
[03:56] <chillywilly> probably
[03:56] <chillywilly> looked like it was in SMP code actually
[03:56] <chillywilly> IIRC
[03:56] <ajmitch_> you could try booting a UP kernel for fun
[03:57] <ajmitch_> all the dapper kernels are SMP now, iirc
[03:57] <chillywilly> I really have to get this new sangoma card installed and working
[03:57] <ajmitch_> I know
[03:58] <chillywilly> hopefully dapper will fix my problems
[03:58] <Lathiat> ajmitch_: as am i :)
[03:58] <psusi> ajmitch_, it's nice... but not worth the money
[03:58] <Lathiat> ajmitch_: ordered my case yesterday :)
[03:58] <chillywilly> in the mean time I'll just build this kernel and see if it will work :(
[03:58] <psusi> my previous two boxen were SMP
[03:58] <psusi> this one I decided to save the money
[03:58] <chillywilly> then try to build the sangoma crap again
[03:59] <psusi> so... anyone feel like testing out my fixed up udftools package on revu?
[03:59] <ajmitch_> Lathiat: excellent :)
[03:59] <psusi> lets you format a cdrw so you can mount it
[04:02] <sistpoty> freeflying: debdiff looks sane... if it builds fine, I'll upload
[04:03] <sistpoty> weee... colored build-output *g*
[04:04] <freeflying> sistpoty: it builds fine
[04:05] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: I hate coloured build output - it can cause terminal problems :)
[04:05] <sistpoty> freeflying: k.... but I'm always rebuilding before uploading... I'm a little bit paranoid there ;)
[04:05] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: as you should
[04:05] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: hehe
[04:05] <ajmitch_> I'd have to get siretart to speak firmly to you if you didn't ;)
[04:05] <freeflying> sistpoty: y
[04:06] <sistpoty> (and I usually discover some errors just _after_ I uploaded a package I touched)
[04:06] <sistpoty> :/
[04:06] <freeflying> sistpoty: :)
[04:07] <freeflying> sistpoty: would you mind review eva ?
[04:08] <sistpoty> freeflying: not today any more... it's 4 am here (and I'm getting a little bit tired)
[04:08] <freeflying> sistpoty: thx
[04:08] <sistpoty> np
[04:25] <sistpoty> freeflying: I'm just taking a short look at eva: you should copy config.sub/config.guess in the config.status rule and remove them in clean rule to get them out of .diff.gz
[04:26] <freeflying> sistpoty: got it , thx
[04:27] <freeflying> sistpoty: and skim is ok ?
[04:27] <sistpoty> freeflying: it just got built, I'm taking a further look ;)
[04:32] <sistpoty> freeflying: for skim: the pkgconfig files (usr/lib/pkgconfig/*.pc) should go into libskim-dev instead of skim, shouldn't they?
[04:33] <freeflying> sistpoty: no , it should be in skim
[04:33] <sistpoty> freeflying: why? they refer to libs/headers from the -dev package, or did I miss s.th.?
[04:34] <freeflying> sistpoty: it in libskim-dev in 1.4.4-0ubuntu1, but skim will not work unless libskim-dev installed
[04:35] <raphink> yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:35] <raphink> sorry couldn't help it
[04:36] <raphink> anyone feels like being a tester here?
[04:36] <freeflying> raphink: test for what ?
[04:36] <raphink> revu-tools 0.4
[04:36] <sistpoty> freeflying: sorry I don't get this... skim won't work if it doesn't have the pkgconfig files?
[04:37] <sistpoty> (maybe lack of sleep is already showing it's first signs)
[04:37] <staqen> why doesn't ubuntu include qvm86 (the open source "accelerator" for qemu)? they say it's become very stable by now.
[04:37] <sistpoty> staqen: because nobody packaged it yet?
[04:38] <staqen> sistpoty: any idea who's the maintainer for qemu?
[04:38] <ajmitch_> a debian developer
[04:38] <sistpoty> staqen: the debian quemu team
[04:38] <raphink> nobody wants to test it? :'(
[04:38] <sistpoty> s/quemu/qemu/
[04:39] <sistpoty> raphink: run it on the eva package plz ;)
[04:39] <raphink> siretart: ping
[04:39] <raphink> sistpoty: I mean the package
[04:39] <freeflying> sistpoty: let me check it
[04:39] <raphink> sistpoty: I'm not planning on adding 0.4 to REVU SVN this time
[04:39] <sistpoty> raphink: ah, I see... not tonight, maybe tomorrow
[04:39] <raphink> as siretart proposed I'm packaging it then it'll be installed on REVU
[04:39] <ajmitch_> though I'm not sure how well kernel module packaging will be shared across debian & ubuntu
[04:39] <raphink> sistpoty: I can run 0.3 on eva though :)
[04:40] <sistpoty> do it ;)
[04:40] <ajmitch_> staqen: the module would have to be rebuilt for every kernel ABI change
[04:40] <raphink> sistpoty: I just have to find a url to the current upstream tarball
[04:40] <staqen> ajmitch_: i see. any solution that you can think of, for the future?
[04:40] <sistpoty> staqen: is the source available/can you point me to it? (I'm not going to package it but have personal interest in it)
[04:41] <Tonio_> re all
[04:41] <ajmitch_> staqen: providing a source package, so that people just have to build it themselves - that's an easy option
[04:42] <ajmitch_> there are examples of this in debian like alsa-source
[04:42] <staqen> sistpoty: this is the cvs access: http://savannah.nongnu.org/cvs/?group=qvm86
[04:42] <sistpoty> staqen: cool, thx
[04:42] <ajmitch_> it looks stagnant
[04:42] <ajmitch_> last commit was 5 months ago
[04:43] <freeflying> sistpoty: u r right , and I correct it ,reuploading
[04:43] <ajmitch_> mailing list says it needs patches to work against 0.8.0
[04:43] <raphink> sistpoty: first comment : 0.4.1 is out
[04:43] <staqen> sistpoty: or this: http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewcvs/qvm86/?root=qvm86
[04:43] <sistpoty> freeflying: k, thx... you can also hand me a debdiff, if you prefer
[04:44] <raphink> sistpoty: second comment : having a watch file would be nice
[04:44] <freeflying> sistpoty: finsh uploading
[04:44] <staqen> ajmitch_: i don't know... the qemu folks are all recommending it to me and say it's very stable by now
[04:45] <ajmitch_> staqen: it worries me that it's seen no active development for awhile though
[04:45] <sistpoty> staqen: to my knowledge qemu is written quite crude and the kernel module isn't well documented (but this is word in the street from some time ago)
[04:46] <staqen> ajmitch_: right
[04:47] <raphink> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/eva-0601172210/REVU_report
[04:48] <sistpoty> raphink: cool... freeflying for eva see ^
[04:48] <raphink> sistpoty: and commented it on the fly ;)
[04:48] <raphink> sistpoty: how do you like these reports?
[04:49] <sistpoty> raphink: they are great, rocking work!
[04:49] <raphink> :D
[04:49] <freeflying> raphink: failed to build ?
[04:49] <sistpoty> raphink: my favorite is stuff done for the upstream tarball, since verfiying it annoys me most
[04:50] <raphink> yes
[04:50] <raphink> sistpoty: I insist on debian/watch lately because I've implemented uscan support in my scripts
[04:50] <raphink> so having a debian/watch allows to have it all automated
[04:50] <raphink> and this report can be generated by simply running `revu-report`
[04:50] <sistpoty> raphink: I don't insist on it, but I strongly appreciate it ;)
[04:50] <raphink> without any argument
[04:50] <sistpoty> cool
[04:51] <raphink> sistpoty: well my specification for this set of scripts was :
[04:52] <raphink> I've got a reveiwing guide on the wiki, with all the steps to be achived. The goal is to have only 1, maximum 2 commands to launch in the console to achive the review.
[04:52] <freeflying> raphink: build dependency of eva are in dapper , why can't be build ?
[04:52] <raphink> freeflying: check the buildlog, as indicated
[04:52] <raphink> all the files are on REVU
[04:53] <sistpoty> freeflying: buildlog is there as well: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/eva-0601172210/eva_0.4.0-0ubuntu1.buildlog
[04:53] <raphink> :)
[04:54] <sistpoty> freeflying: you seem to be missing automake1.6 (iirc automake1.6 is also gone from the archives)
[04:54] <raphink> yep
[04:54] <raphink> it's gone
[04:54] <sistpoty> raphink: well, you'll always have to look "by hand", but with your rocking scripts you can focus on only the important stuff :)
[04:54] <raphink> with some packages to fix
[04:55] <raphink> sistpoty: no, I mean
[04:55] <raphink> with REVU, you can look on the web interface which imo is much nicer
[04:55] <raphink> running revu-scripts on REVU just completes the whole stuff
[04:55] <raphink> so after running revu-report
[04:55] <raphink> all you should have to do is read the reports and the package components on the web interface
[04:56] <raphink> that's what I mean by not running anything else in a console
[04:56] <raphink> next step is to use mdt to check for the presence of the package in any versions of Debian and Ubuntu
[04:56] <raphink> and then try to check for bugs reported on Debian or Ubuntu that might explain that is was nuked, or reveal that an ITP was already filed on Debian for it
[04:57] <raphink> quite a lot of work to go, but useful imo :)
[04:57] <sistpoty> raphink: ah, well... (maybe I'm still used too much to look at files via vim... *g*)
[04:57] <raphink> hrhr
[05:00] <raphink> I see Riddell uploaded scim-anthy
[05:00] <raphink> it's not latest version though
[05:00] <raphink> the version uploaded today from REVU is 0.8.0
[05:01] <raphink> although latest version is 0.9.0
[05:02] <psusi> raphink, omg... you're kidding?  try emacs... if you're doing anything more than editing one or two lines, it's a must
[05:03] <raphink> psusi: I shall
[05:03] <raphink> been using nano for years now and quite happy with it so far
[05:03] <raphink> say, choosing an editor is really not a priority for me
[05:03] <raphink> as long as I can edit with it
[05:04] <raphink> but then I understand I could do much more with emacs or even vim ;)
[05:04] <psusi> pico/nano is fine if you just need to quickly edit one or two settings in a conf file or something
[05:04] <psusi> but if you are coding, emacs is a godsend
[05:04] <raphink> psusi: believe it or not, I'm developping revu-tools in nano ;)
[05:04] <psusi> omg.... you NEED to learn emacs ;)
[05:04] <raphink> haha
[05:05] <raphink> ok I will, when I get time for that
[05:05] <raphink> :)
[05:05] <raphink> btw, wanna test my package psusi ?
[05:05] <psusi> fire it up, hit ctrl-h t and it will walk you through a basic interactive tutorial... takes like 10 mins
[05:05] <psusi> what package?
[05:05] <psusi> you want to test mine? ;)
[05:05] <raphink> revu-tools 0.4
[05:05] <psusi> hrm... what is it?
[05:05] <raphink> hmm it's 5 AM I was planning to go to bed ;)
[05:05] <raphink> psusi: reviewing tools
[05:06] <sistpoty> psusi: bah, interactive tutorial... we wouldn't be nerds if we wanted this? :P
[05:06] <psusi> hrm... sounds interesting... tell me more
[05:06] <raphink> psusi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/REVU-Tools
[05:06] <psusi> sistpoty, hey... don't knock info pages ;)
[05:06] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:07] <ajmitch_> good luck :)
[05:07] <psusi> I'd rather not maintain ubuntu patches indefinately ;)
[05:07] <ajmitch_> they'll probably want you to register udftools-ng or something ;)
[05:07] <raphink> psusi: and here is latest changelog http://revu.tauware.de/~raphink/revu-tools/Changelog
[05:11] <raphink> psusi: and if you want to make me happy and test the best, it's on http://revu.tauware.de/~raphink/debs/ :)
[05:11] <raphink> s/best/deb/
[05:11] <psusi> hehe
[05:12] <psusi> I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the revu process is ;)
[05:12] <psusi> and cracking a beer
[05:12] <raphink> psusi: how do you mean?
[05:12] <raphink> what revu process?
[05:12] <raphink> you mean how the tool works?
[05:12] <psusi> the one that this package automatizes
[05:12] <raphink> ok
[05:12] <raphink> well
[05:13] <raphink> as I said to sistpoty before
[05:13] <psusi> yea... I'm reading about it now... but don't really know what the old way of doing things was, so... I've got some reading to do
[05:13] <raphink> ok
[05:13] <raphink> psusi: it refers to the reviewing guide I wrote earlier : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing
[05:13] <psusi> ohh, don't you have to be a revu admin to test this?
[05:14] <psusi> yea, I'm reading that now
[05:14] <raphink> psusi: basically the idea is that after running revu-report, all this reviewing guide could be followed with steps on REVU
[05:14] <raphink> without having to type any thing else in a console
[05:14] <raphink> psusi: no, the deb is revu-independant now
[05:14] <raphink> it works on any machine :)
[05:14] <raphink> with a pbuilder, lintian and linda
[05:14] <raphink> and devscripts of course
[05:15] <raphink> I'm hoping it can also be used by packagers to check their own packages
[05:15] <psusi> interesting.... I'm hoping I can learn exactly what all that means and become a revu admin ;)
[05:16] <sistpoty> psusi: are you motu already? if not you should first become a motu ;)
[05:17] <psusi> wait... what's the difference?
[05:17] <raphink> sistpoty: or first question should be : are you a member already?
[05:17] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:17] <raphink> ;)
[05:17] <psusi> anyone can package and upload to revu... need an admin to review and it upload to the archive right?
[05:18] <raphink> sistpoty: oh well can't you be a revu admin without even being a member in some cases ? ;)
[05:18] <psusi> well, according to launchpad, I'm an ubuntaro... and I have upload access to revu
[05:18] <raphink> psusi: that doens't mean anything
[05:18] <raphink> ubuntero means you've signed the CoC
[05:18] <sistpoty> raphink: you can be a reviewer at least in some very special cases ;)
[05:18] <raphink> this is pre-membership
[05:18] <psusi> raphink, right...
[05:18] <raphink> and you can upload even not being an ubuntero
[05:18] <raphink> as soon asyour key is added to the REVU keyring
[05:19] <raphink> REVU not even being officially part of Ubuntu
[05:19] <raphink> ;)
[05:19] <raphink> psusi: so if you're not a member, first step is to be one :)
[05:19] <psusi> ok... so what's being a motu officially mean?
[05:19] <sistpoty> raphink: btw.: do you have super-cow-powers on tiber?
[05:19] <raphink> to be a motu you need to be a dev psusi
[05:19] <psusi> ohh, right... the proposing myself to the CC right?
[05:19] <raphink> sistpoty: I have pbuilder and svn powers on tiber iirc
[05:19] <psusi> yea... I need to do that at some point....
[05:19] <raphink> psusi: yep
[05:20] <psusi> still need to figure out exactly what is required of me for that
[05:20] <raphink> psusi: there are Howto on the wiki for that
[05:20] <sistpoty> raphink: root-rights? (would that help you)?
[05:20] <raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto psusi
[05:20] <psusi> yea... I need to read that again...
[05:21] <psusi> takes a few times to sink in
[05:21] <raphink> sistpoty: I don't think I hvae them right now
[05:21] <raphink> course it would help though sistpoty
[05:21] <raphink> I had to ask siretart to install libwww-perl a few days ago
[05:21] <raphink> and now I plan to upgrade revu-tools through my deb
[05:21] <raphink> so at least on the install stuff
[05:22] <sistpoty> raphink: I'll propose that to siretart ;)
[05:22] <raphink> but this is high rights
[05:22] <freeflying> raphink: after being a member , what can I do then ? :)
[05:22] <raphink> freeflying: work
[05:22] <raphink> ;)
[05:22] <raphink> freeflying: so you get to apply for dev if you want
[05:23] <raphink> then once you're dev you just need to ask to be in the MOTU team
[05:23] <raphink> and then you can still work....
[05:23] <raphink> so you get to apply for core-dev later
[05:23] <raphink> if you want
[05:23] <freeflying> hmm
[05:23] <raphink> and if you're accepted, of course, for each step
[05:23] <sistpoty> freeflying: just uploaded skim ;)
[05:23] <raphink> or you can join the secret MOTU-main-takeover team
[05:24] <raphink> so you don't have to be a core dev, just prepare the revolution ;)
[05:24] <ajmitch_> raphink: secret?
[05:24] <raphink> hmm ajmitch_ if it's not secret officially then it's not a true revolution, is it?
[05:24] <freeflying> sistpoty: nice ,
[05:24] <ajmitch_> raphink: there are already enough MOTUs in the core-dev team :)
[05:24] <sistpoty> freeflying: another small note: please try to be more verbose in the changelog in the future, i.e. what exactly did you change to packaging/what files did you move etc.
[05:24] <raphink> ajmitch_: that was just a 5:30AM joke
[05:24] <ajmitch_> raphink: poor you :)
[05:24] <raphink> ajmitch_: :p
[05:25] <freeflying> sistpoty: right
[05:25] <ajmitch_> raphink: I count 8 MOTUs who can upload to main
[05:25] <raphink> great :)
[05:25] <ajmitch_> currently not enough MOTUs who are DDs as well
[05:25] <raphink> mhm
[05:26] <raphink> I'm not to apply for NM any soon I guess
[05:26] <raphink> got other things to do
[05:26] <ajmitch_> same here :)
[05:26] <raphink> I've got DDs to sponsor my packages if needed
[05:27] <raphink> anyway
[05:27] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: but quite some are in NM (and maybe I'll go for NM soon as well) ;)
[05:27] <psusi> raphink, one feature of emacs that I find very handy when working on packages is it's diff mode.... I usually make changes, test, then diff with the original directory... open it in emacs and it colorizes the files
[05:27] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: but that could take a year or more
[05:27] <psusi> raphink, and you can copy/paste hunks or all hunks of a file with one keystroke
[05:27] <raphink> psusi: nice
[05:27] <psusi> so I can pick and choose which parts I need to put into a debian/patch-x-foo.diff
[05:27] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: yes, that's just one of the problems of debian imho
[05:27] <psusi> cut and paste real easy
[05:28] <raphink> :)
[05:28] <sistpoty> (but what do i know ;)
[05:28] <psusi> hell, pico doesn't even have undo does it?
[05:28] <raphink> psusi: not even
[05:28] <raphink> psusi: that forces you to think before doing stuff
[05:28] <raphink> ;)
[05:28] <psusi> outch
[05:28] <raphink> lol
[05:28] <ajmitch_> raphink: it's broken my design
[05:28] <raphink> yeah it's painful
[05:28] <ajmitch_> s/my/by/
[05:29] <raphink> ajmitch_: as I said to psusi, believe it or not, I've developped revu-tools in nano so far
[05:29] <raphink> in nano _only_
[05:29] <raphink> about 1000 lines of bash in nano ;)
[05:29] <raphink> or so
[05:29] <psusi> folding is another really cool feature that I really need to get into the habbit of using... emacs can hide/unhide blocks of code based on the block nesting kind of like a tree
[05:29] <raphink> and no I'm not totally masochist
[05:29] <ajmitch_> raphink: that's not too much
[05:29] <sistpoty> raphink: do you think you get extra karma because of this? :P
[05:29] <raphink> sistpoty: no :p
[05:30] <raphink> ajmitch_: it's too much in nano
[05:30] <raphink> not too much in total
[05:30] <ajmitch_> raphink: anything more than 1 line is too much in nano
[05:30] <raphink> haha
[05:30] <freeflying> who can tell me something about ubuntu.com's website
[05:30] <ajmitch_> freeflying: it exists?
[05:30] <psusi> searching, moving, replacing, everything is so much nicer in emacs
[05:30] <ajmitch_> freeflying: define 'something'
[05:30] <raphink> freeflying: maybe whois can tell you
[05:31] <raphink> freeflying: if you're talking about the DNS that is
[05:31] <raphink> if you're talking about the programming language, I can't tell
[05:31] <psusi> though I find myself sometimes hitting emacs key bindings while editing code at work in the proprietary windows IDE I have to use and wondering WTF it isn't working ;)
[05:31] <raphink> if you're talking about the colours, it's mostly brown
[05:31] <raphink> as ajmitch_ said freeflying it's just about what you mean by "something"
[05:32] <freeflying> I need the theme of website for hosting kubun-cn
[05:32] <psusi> usually c-a and c-e to go to the start/end of the current line
[05:33] <sistpoty> freeflying: you could adress this issue in a CommunityCouncil-meeting... I'm quite sure there won't be problems
[05:34] <freeflying> sistpoty: ok
[05:35] <LaserJock> lol, I just realized my iMac doesn't have a floppy drive.
[05:35] <psusi> I don't have a floppy drive... floppies suck hairy balls
[05:36] <sistpoty> raphink: I just flew over your reviewing guide... and found two minor things
[05:36] <raphink> sistpoty: what are they?
[05:36] <raphink> sistpoty: feel free to correct them of course :)=
[05:36] <ajmitch_> LaserJock: floppy drive? what's that?
[05:36] <LaserJock> psusi: well, unfortunately I had to put some data on a floppy disk. I'll have to go home and put it on a usb stick
[05:37] <sistpoty> raphink: multiple entries in changelog: Sometimes they are there for purpose, like giving credits to a source where you get an almost good sourcepackage from
[05:37] <crimsun> I'm fond of floppy diskettes.
[05:37] <crimsun> they've saved my arse more than once in the many years I've run Sid
[05:37] <LaserJock> ajmitch_: yeah, yeah. I'm just glad it was a 3 1/2" floppy and not the 5" ;-)
[05:37] <psusi> LaserJock, you can use a cdrw or dvdrw too if you grab the udftools package ;)
[05:37] <raphink> sistpoty: yes
[05:38] <psusi> crimsun, cd >>>>> floppy
[05:38] <ajmitch_> LaserJock: I think I've still got a working 5&1/4" drive in the cupboard :)
[05:38] <raphink> sistpoty: then thing slike [Original Author]  [Ubuntu Pakager]  can be used in the initial release entry
[05:38] <LaserJock> psusi: the machine I was collecting data from can only store data on a floppy :(
[05:38] <sistpoty> raphink: the other one is stuff outside of debian-dir in .diff.gz... some ppl. prefer to use a VCS to manage their package and adding a patch-system would also seem overkill in some places (like few lines changed in makefile or so)
[05:38] <psusi> LaserJock, outch....
[05:38] <sistpoty> raphink: but generally it's a very good guide :)
[05:39] <raphink> ty
[05:39] <raphink> sistpoty: well just feel free to update/correct it
[05:39] <ajmitch_> raphink: I really do like having multiple changelog entries rather than having only 1
[05:39] <sistpoty> raphink: not now... too tired ;)
[05:39] <raphink> hehe
[05:39] <raphink> same here
[05:39] <ajmitch_> raphink: and stating that changes not in the archive must not be mentioned.. I find that to be silly
[05:40] <raphink> ajmitch_: the idea I got when I learned to review was that only the versions officially in Ubuntu or Debian should appear int he changelog
[05:40] <raphink> otherwise you might think some versions existed before but can't find a track of them
[05:40] <sistpoty> raphink: oh, and I found that in some notes from you: x.y.z-rc should be x.y.(z-1)+rc... imo x.y.z-rc is also good (at least ajmitch_ told me it was)
[05:41] <raphink> I'll check with dpkg --compare-versions then :)
[05:41] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: only if you make sure the final is named something like x.y.z-rel
[05:41] <raphink> although I'm pretty sure if ajmitch_ said it it must be true :)
[05:41] <ajmitch_> or something that is higher than rc :)
[05:41] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: thx for pointing that out ;)
[05:41] <ajmitch_> raphink: :P
[05:42] <raphink> ajmitch_: oh yeah sure
[05:42] <ajmitch_> eg 0.5.2rel-2 > 0.5.2rc8-9
[05:42] <ajmitch_> it's nicer than sticking an epoch on front
[05:42] <raphink> ajmitch_: but then the reason why I prefer to use (z-1) is tha tyou never know what numbering scheme upstream is gonna use after rc
[05:42] <raphink> ;)
[05:42] <ajmitch_> raphink: umm, you put the rel on yourself
[05:42] <raphink> that's an option for sure
[05:42] <ajmitch_> you don't have to stick absolutely to whatever braindamage upstream spews out
[05:43] <raphink> hehe
[05:43] <raphink> can be a good idea to mention that option
[05:43] <sistpoty> raphink: for the changelog you could see pyfribidi, which I made (and got adopted to unstable before ubuntu)... the maintainer explicitely kept the changelog for credits ;)
[05:43] <ajmitch_> upstream developers aren't always so good at release management :)
[05:43] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: that's how it should be done, IMHO
[05:43] <psusi> oh crap... the CC already met today
[05:44] <sistpoty> hehe
[05:44] <raphink> psusi: yep
[05:44] <psusi> would have been nice if I made it in that one... tomorrow is my birthday ;)
[05:44] <raphink> psusi: and we welcomed two MOTU-Hopefuls as almost-members
[05:44] <psusi> almost-members?
[05:44] <raphink> psusi: indeed
[05:44] <ajmitch_> no quorum for voting?
[05:44] <raphink> psusi: mako was not here, so there were only 2 members of the CC
[05:44] <raphink> while 3 are required
[05:44] <psusi> ahhh
[05:45] <ajmitch_> raphink: who were the new members to be ratified?
[05:45] <psusi> question... what's the deal with bazaar?  why make yet another vcs?  what's wrong with svn or git? ( though I've not used git before )
[05:45] <raphink> ajmitch_: for the MOTU Hopefuls, jpatrick and gloubigoulba
[05:45] <ajmitch_> psusi: they have different purposes
[05:45] <ajmitch_> psusi: svn is centralised
[05:45] <sistpoty> psusi: bzr is not centralized and branching is much better supported in there
[05:45] <psusi> sistpoty, isn't that what git is for?
[05:46] <crimsun> git is still centralised of sorts
[05:46] <ajmitch_> git was started after bzr was, and is focused on specific use cases (kernel)
[05:46] <ajmitch_> bzr is more general purpose, and a lot nicer than git imho :)
[05:46] <psusi> I thought that was git's whole point?  full decentralization... you can push/pull between anywhere... repository and workign copy are unified... no?
[05:46] <sistpoty> psusi: I've never used git before... but imo git deals with patches, whereas bzr can deal with e.g. local commits/commits from merging another branch
[05:46] <psusi> hrm.... damnit... now I'm going to have to learn both so I can compare them
[05:47] <ajmitch_> http://bazaar.canonical.com/SCMComparisons
[05:47] <psusi> it sounds like git can do all kinds of neat stuff...
[05:47] <ajmitch_> sure
[05:47] <crimsun> psusi: full always depends on the use, though. For those of us who feed patches, it's not quite as decentralised as it may seem.
[05:47] <ajmitch_> and bzr can do all that & more
[05:47] <psusi> hrm...
[05:48] <raphink|sleep> gn8
[05:48] <ajmitch_> psusi: you might as well ask why git was started when bzr already existed
[05:48] <psusi> crimsun, by the sound of it, everyone and their mother has a git tree, and patches get pushed back and forth betwen them
[05:48] <sistpoty> gn8 raphink|sleep
[05:48] <ajmitch_> and bzr was started based on lessons learnt from bazaar 1.x
[05:49] <crimsun> psusi: to some extent, yes. But I can't push to benc's, zul's, fabbione's, infinity's, etc.
[05:49] <crimsun> (nor does benc automerge for that matter)
[05:49] <psusi> crimsun, you could if you had permission couldn't you?
[05:50] <crimsun> psusi: theoretically
[05:50] <psusi> well, there you go ;)
[05:50] <crimsun> again, use, as I mentioned above ;)
[05:51] <psusi> I've been trying to figure out how to track the current status of some patches I sent in to lkml.... I think they got put into either the -mm or linus tree... I'd like to figure out how to make sure and check if they have made it into the ubuntu tree
[05:51] <ajmitch_> gitk is a nice visual frontend once you have a branch checked out
[05:52] <crimsun> I normally use a combination of ``git pull'' and http://kernel.org/git/
[05:53] <psusi> heh... I usually learn from bottom up... try to figure out the most minimalistic bare mettal way of doing things to really understand it... then work up to simpler methods from there
[05:53] <crimsun> you can certainly do that. git's all plumbing.
[05:53] <psusi> yea... I like to learn the plumbing first, then appreciate the porceline
[05:54] <ajmitch_> one thing about git is that it is fast on big trees
[05:54] <psusi> hrm...
[05:55] <ajmitch_> we do have bzr developers in this channel though :)
[05:56] <sistpoty> isn't bzr also based on some git-technology (imo I read this somewhere) ;)
[05:56] <psusi> well... I'm going to have to learn both.... ubuntu uses git for the kernel, and bzr for everything else?  or have I read some things use svn?
[05:57] <sistpoty> revu development uses svn :P
[05:57] <ajmitch_> sistpoty: git was started after bzr, so not so likely
[05:57] <crimsun> afaik only ubuntu-kernel uses git
[05:58] <ajmitch_> and the kernel uses git solely because git is the tool for the kernel
[05:58] <ajmitch_> it was written for that use
[05:58] <sistpoty> ajmitch_: ah, k... then my memory is wrong ;)
[05:58] <ajmitch_> lifeless can correct me if I'm wrong
[05:58] <ajmitch_> which is quite likely
[05:59] <sistpoty> same goes for my memory at this time ;)
[06:06] <psusi> am I weird for disliking gpg?
[06:06] <psusi> openssl just seems so much nicer
[06:06] <ajmitch_> they're completely separate things?
[06:07] <psusi> seperate yes... but do many of the same things
[06:07] <psusi> and I don't like the way gpg does things
[06:07] <ajmitch_> they do a few of the same things
[06:07] <psusi> many.... encryption.... signing... secure email.... authentication...
[06:08] <psusi> openssl does most of what both gpg and ssh combined do
[06:08] <ajmitch_> only if you look at it from a 10-mile view ignoring any & all details ;)
[06:09] <psusi> well... with reguard to email... openssl does s/mime... which is well... actually a standard.... unlike gpg, which I find annoying because it's just inline text for signatures for instance
[06:09] <psusi> and x.509 digital certificates make more sense to me than bare RSA keypairs that gpg uses
[06:10] <psusi> doesn't require key servers for instance
[06:11] <psusi> and can gpg encrypt an email for multiple recipients?
[06:12] <psusi> I get the impression that it directly encrypts the message with their public key rather than a random symetric cipher whose key is then encrypted using the recipient's public key
[06:12] <crimsun> that's normally something done by an MUA, psusi
[06:12] <psusi> probably because I've had a fair amoutn to drink
[06:13] <crimsun> many commercial packages like Lotus Notes use certificates
[06:13] <psusi> yes.... and so does openssl... gpg doesn't... it's the weirdo
[06:14] <sistpoty> psusi: gpg is about web of trust, can s.th. do this w.o. keyserver?
[06:14] <psusi> a "web of trust" doesn't make sense to me.... trust comes from chains, not webs
[06:14] <jamessan> isn't a web just a bunch of chains?
[06:15] <sistpoty> psusi: what's the difference?
[06:15] <psusi> I still don't quite get the web
[06:15] <psusi> with x.509, you have a CA that both parties trust and signs their certificates
[06:16] <psusi> then the two parties exchange certificates and they can verify that they are talking to the right person and encrypt their communication
[06:16] <sistpoty> psusi: it's about a signed key of b and trusts him... I trust a to a certain amount so I trust b to a (less certain) amount because a signed b
[06:17] <sistpoty> (sorry for not using foo and bar here)
[06:17] <psusi> sistpoty, so if I sign your key.. and you sign foo's key.. and foo sign's bar's key... and bar sends me an email, my email client can see that chain and decide the message comes from a trusted source and has not been tampered with?
[06:18] <sistpoty> psusi: to my knowledge mua's can't do that (yet?)... but you can track exactly this path of trust
[06:19] <psusi> see, mua's can do that with s/mime
[06:19] <psusi> or rather, they can see that the message has not been tampered with since it was signed by the sender's certificate... and that that certificate is signed by a trusted CA
[06:20] <sistpoty> psusi: and that's the difference... you don't need a CA with gpg
[06:20] <psusi> then you can reply and encrypt that reply so only they can read it... and without the need for any key servers
[06:20] <psusi> yea, but you need key servers
[06:20] <psusi> also... the gpg generates signatures appear as inline garbage to mua's that dont understand it... with s/mime, it appears as an attachment
[06:21] <ajmitch_> and gpg signatures can be attachments too.. so what?
[06:21] <psusi> they can?
[06:22] <ajmitch_> if the MUA isn't broken
[06:22] <sistpoty> sure... iirc using inline signatures is deprecated (and has to do s.th. with outlook which I just don't remember any longer)
[06:22] <psusi> s.th?
[06:22] <ajmitch_> something
[06:23] <psusi> what do non inline signatures look like to non gpg aware muas?
[06:23] <psusi> I see inline ones from time to time on mailing lists, but that's it
[06:23] <psusi> and when I signed the coc on malone, it sent me an email with the signature inline
[06:23] <sistpoty> psusi: iirc outlook can not (or could not) display mails with gpg attachments right... (but I don't recall exactly the details)
[06:23] <ajmitch_> probably because outlook is a rather broken MUA :)
[06:24] <psusi> malone definately sent a single part mime message plain text... I looked at the source
[06:25] <psusi> with s/mime, I believe there is a header that says this is an encrypted message or something... then the encrypted mime part...
[06:25] <ajmitch_> which is what should be done with gpg
[06:25] <psusi> thunderbird transparently decrypts it and shows you the message.... non s/mime aware clients though would just see the little part about this being an encrypted message, and an attachment
[06:25] <ajmitch_> psusi: where did you see signed email from malone?
[06:25] <sistpoty> psusi: I get quite some "wrong" stuff (signature is wrong) from malone/LP... which says LP touched the msg.
[06:25] <psusi> ajmitch_, it was encrypted actually, not signed... when I asked to sign the coc
[06:26] <ajmitch_> right
[06:26] <ajmitch_> so launchpad, not malone
[06:26] <psusi> err... yea
[06:27] <psusi> I see that sort of thing from some people on mailing lists too
[06:28] <psusi> but thunderbird, outlook, and probably several others understand s/mime just fine.. and I can see who sent the message and reply with an encrypted message if I choose... all without a keyserver
[06:29] <ajmitch_> that's great
[06:29] <sistpoty> cya ajmitch_
[06:31] <sistpoty> psusi: (w.o. knowing what exactly s/mime is): how can s/mime make sure the msg is not tampered with?
[06:33] <psusi> sistpoty, s/mime is a mime standard for secure email... openssl supports it... it generates a hash of the message ( MD5 or SHA, etc ) then encrypts that using the signer's private key ( RSA or DSA )
[06:33] <psusi> sistpoty, the recipient then can decrypt the encrypted hash with the sender's public key, and compute their own hash of the message and make sure it matches
[06:33] <sistpoty> psusi: where do the private/public keys come from?
[06:34] <psusi> x.509 certificates ( ISO standard )
[06:35] <sistpoty> psusi: I want to send and encrypted s/mime msg... where can I get the public key of the receiver?
[06:35] <sistpoty> oh, got it wrong... sorry
[06:36] <psusi> have them email it to you is one way
[06:36] <psusi> just have them send you a signed message
[06:36] <sistpoty> you know what i mean? ;)
[06:36] <psusi> ?
[06:37] <sistpoty> (you explained it differently than I replied;)
[06:38] <sistpoty> psusi: but how can I make sure, the sender *is* the sender of the msg in the first place, when I don't have his key yet?
[06:38] <psusi> sistpoty, because his certificate is signed by an authority that you trust who verified his identify...
[06:39] <sistpoty> psusi: then how do I know I trust that very authority?
[06:39] <psusi> like verisign, or... eventually it would be nice if the gov't set up their own CA ot issue electronic docmuments and do away with paper ones
[06:39] <psusi> because you have configured your system to trust them by installing their certificate as a trusted CA certificate
[06:40] <psusi> because you believe that they do a good job of validating proper documents to be assured of the identity of applicants
[06:40] <sistpoty> psusi: then this all ends up having s.th. like a "keyserver" ;) (having one authority I trust seems pretty much like having a keyserver, doesn't it?)
[06:42] <psusi> no... because the keyserver must be accessible to validate a message from a new person... a CA doesn't
[06:43] <sistpoty> but I can switch to another keyserver pretty quickly, since each keyserver (should be) is syncronised to each other
[06:44] <sistpoty> but basically, I get the impression... both types have there pro's and con's (like what is when a CA isn't trustworthy?) (or the keyserver must be present problem)... so I think it's good to have them both
[06:45] <sistpoty> and psusi: thanks for the insights what s/mime is about ;)
[06:46] <psusi> no problem...
[06:46] <psusi> they are definately similar... but s/mime is a more widely supported standard, whereas gpg is a home grown solution
[06:47] <psusi> also... the same x.509 certificate you use for email can be used for IPSec and SSL connections
[06:48] <sistpoty> he, but homegrown solutions is one thing FOSS stands for, isn't it? ;)
[06:49] <psusi> no.... FOSS stands for solutions that are free to everyone and come with source
[06:49] <psusi> if that solution must be homegrown, so be it... but if there's a good standard already... use it
[06:50] <sistpoty> hehe, another point of view ;)
[06:51] <psusi> I just find ssl and s/mime to be less kludgey feeling than ssh and gpg I guess
[06:51] <psusi> and more widely supported
[06:52] <sistpoty> I can't tell about what's more widely supported... I don't have that kludgey feeling though...
[06:52] <sistpoty> anyway, it's almost 7am here, and I think I'll open a beer right now and go out for a smoke (before I finally fall into bed)
[06:52] <psusi> lol....
[06:52] <sistpoty> brb
[06:52] <psusi> but bet does sound good
[06:53] <sistpoty> you're lucky... I tried several times but failed
[06:53] <psusi> it ain't easy
[06:53] <psusi> and yea, this is probably the 4th time I've tried
[06:54] <psusi> but this time I'm sticking to it... I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired
[06:54] <sistpoty> :)
[06:54] <psusi> and it certainly makes working out easier, which is nice
[06:54] <psusi> well, night...
[06:54] <sistpoty> gn8 psusi
[07:18] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[07:18] <lfittl> gn8 sistpoty
[07:21] <dolson> crimsun: it appears I was wrong.. the packages build, but the SConstruct file has changed, so the -gtk and -gtk-686 packages are not build properly I don't think
[07:50] <zakame> hello MOTUs
[08:08] <lifeless> psusi the doc team use svn
[08:08] <lifeless> git is used by the kernel so we use it too at this point
[08:34] <lucas> I have some sync requests pending for more than a week
[08:35] <lucas> somebody know if elmo has a huge backlog those days ?
[08:37] <zakame> er probably because of the rollout
[08:43] <zakame> hmm motu-school's been off for a long time :/
[08:47] <lucas> yeah
[08:52] <lucas> it's a bit frustrating
[08:55] <siretart> lucas: you are right. I feel the same. but I don't know a better way
[08:56] <zakame> well yeah there are bits that are quite difficult, but right now we need to do polish :)
[08:56] <lucas> yeah, we have 1130 packages with newer versions in debian
[08:56] <lucas> some of them might fix huge bugs
[08:56] <lucas> and we don't even know about it
[08:57] <lucas> just because we can't review them all
[08:58] <dolson> you need more MOTUs
[08:58] <zakame> hmm yeah, but if we play catchup we'll never finish dapper ;)
[08:59] <zakame> on all pkgs, that is
[08:59] <lucas> yeah, but it sucks, since some packages might be of high importance to somebod
[08:59] <lucas> y
[08:59] <lucas> and if we release with an outdated verison
[08:59] <lucas> he could complain
[08:59] <siretart> dolson: yes, and since we don't have more motus, and are not likley to increase our numbers in short way, this won't work
[09:00] <zakame> :(
[09:00] <siretart> zakame: the only reasonable thing to do is to decrease divergence
[09:00] <torkel> better to get complains about outdated packages than packages that crashes every five minutes
[09:00] <zakame> siretart+1
[09:01] <dolson> well I'm attempting at learning how to do packaging, so some day I could possibly help in some way
[09:02] <siretart> torkel: how do you know that we don't have packages that crash every five minutes which could be fixed by syncing a newer revision of the package?
[09:02] <zakame> is there any more input on DCT then?
[09:02] <siretart> the point is that we don't know
[09:04] <torkel> siretart: on the other hand you don't know if syncing a newer version gives you less bugs
[09:04] <lucas> siretart: [+1] 
[09:04] <lucas> zakame: I'll try to work on DCT next week. The problem is that we need more Ubuntu devs to get involved if we want it to be successful
[09:05] <zakame> lucas: w00t count me in then ;)
[09:05] <siretart> lucas: I'm quite busy today with other stuff (uni, work, etc.), but I intend to prepare an email to ubuntu-devel, perhaps to u-d-a, describing the problem. I'd like you to review it, okay?
[09:05] <siretart> perhaps the next days
[09:06] <siretart> morning dholbach!
[09:06] <dholbach> hey siretart
[09:06] <lucas> siretart: I've started a wiki page about it, just to write some thoughts
[09:06] <lucas> ping me when you start working on this
[09:07] <lucas> somebody has a source for "we will support dapper for 3 years" on www.ubuntu.com or wiki.ubuntu.com ?
[09:07] <dholbach> good morning!
[09:07] <siretart> lucas: oh, which wiki page is this?
[09:07] <dholbach> it will be on dapper's release announcement
[09:07] <dholbach> and on ubuntu-devel@ too
[09:07] <zakame> heya dholbach :D
[09:08] <dholbach> hey zakame
[09:08] <siretart> dholbach: do we already have some place to propose Candidates for removal?
[09:09] <dholbach> siretart: I think not, it'd be good to list the ones we already requested somewhere.
[09:09] <siretart> dholbach: okay, I'll start a wiki page: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/RemovalCandidates, okay?
[09:11] <dholbach> Did we remove the MorgueCandidates page?
[09:11] <dholbach> If not, it'd be a good idea to just have one.
[09:12] <siretart> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates this one exists
[09:12] <siretart> but last edit was in November. we could revive that
[09:13] <dholbach> Yeah.
[09:37] <lucas> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucasNussbaum/UVFManagementInMOTU
[10:00] <dholbach> What's the deal with flashplugin-nonfree?
[10:00] <dholbach> Is it a new upstream version we want to include?
[10:01] <jpatrick> morning dholbach
[10:02] <lucas> dholbach: no
[10:02] <lucas> no UVF exception required
[10:13] <dholbach> Can somebody have a look at this list and tell me, if I forgot something:
[10:13] <dholbach> not enough discussion: scim-tables, afterstep, gnome-rdp, skim
[10:13] <dholbach> to pass on: gmime2.1, beagle, ikvm, wine
[10:13] <dholbach> approved: lyx, ipython, libgettext-ruby, sisu, psi, libgdiplus, liferea, byzanz, jabberd2, soundconverter, bzrtools
[10:15] <dholbach> GAR, no MOTU report written yet.
[10:15] <siretart> dholbach: I have another request: schroot, but I have to write the report first
[10:17] <jpatrick> Is this MainInclusion?
[10:17] <dholbach> No.
[10:17] <dholbach> UVF = Upstream Version Freeze.
[10:17] <jpatrick> ok
[10:29] <ajmitch_> hi
[10:29] <Pygi> hello
[10:30] <ajmitch_> dholbach: what do you mean 'to pass on'?
[10:30] <ajmitch_> I see I was too late with f-spot for this week
[10:30] <ajmitch_> oh well, I guess it can wait for another 3 weeks until I get back
[10:30] <dholbach> Mail it to the list.
[10:31] <dholbach> We'll discuss it and I'll pass it on to Matt and Colin on Sunday/Monday.
[10:31] <ajmitch_> ok
[10:31] <dholbach> Just prepare and send it then.
[10:32] <ajmitch_> lucky me is going off to australia for some work
[10:32] <dholbach> brb
[10:32] <ajmitch_> ok, bye then
[10:34] <jpatrick> someone care to look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1690
[10:57] <lfittl> dholbach: ping
[10:57] <dholbach> lfittl: pong
[11:01] <jpatrick> can someone help me with these? http://pastebin.com/544672
[11:15] <siretart> sbuild rocks
[11:20] <ajmitch_> siretart: ?
[11:20] <siretart> ajmitch_: I made sbuild run on my laptop on lvm snapshots
[11:21] <ajmitch_> great, you must show me how to configure it for that :)
[11:21] <ajmitch_> is it any faster?
[11:22] <siretart> I don't feel it runnay way faster. but you don't need to purge your chroot after build anymore
[11:22] <siretart> and you can guarantee a clean chroot
[11:22] <ajmitch_> ok
[11:23] <ajmitch_> but purge & untar aren't the operations that slow it down significantly
[11:23] <siretart> ajmitch_: in order to make this work, you need the latest schroot from unstable, plus the latest lvm-snapshot capable sbuild version rleigh sent me by email ;)
[11:23] <ajmitch_> right
[11:23] <ajmitch_> so it probably doesn't matter
[11:23] <ajmitch_> unless there's wireless in the area where I'll be (very unlikely)
[11:49] <azeem> lifeless: my ThinkPad mostly died last Friday, the display flickers at random times and then it freezes :/
[11:49] <azeem> I thought I found a loose screw after opening up the keyboard, but last night/this morning I couldn't even get it to boot anymore
[11:54] <lifeless> azeem: :[
[11:55] <siretart> azeem: :(
[11:56] <siretart> lifeless: did you read my question yesterday about pybaz vs. python2.4-bazaar? which of them is deprecated?
[11:56] <lifeless> siretart: did you read my answer
[11:56] <siretart> oh, I did not. sorry
[11:57] <siretart> ah, there it is. /me rechecks
[11:58] <siretart> ah, that seems to be cruft in /etc/apt/sources.list. sorry for bothering
[12:08] <siretart> lucas: I've just looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucasNussbaum/UVFManagementInMOTU, and I have some comments, why some of your proposals won't work, but I don't have time to answer them right now
[12:09] <siretart> lucas: could you please just paste https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucasNussbaum/UVFManagementInMOTU?action-raw to our mailing list so that I can answer via email? thanks
[12:40] <lucas> siretart: maybe it's better if we discuss it together ?
[12:41] <lucas> (first)
[12:41] <lucas> before starting a thread on the mailing list
[12:54] <ogra> lucas, it was discussed to extend at UBZ while we made the release schedule ...
[01:16] <Tonio_> hi
[01:18] <Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_
[01:24] <lucas> I wasn't at UBZ
[01:25] <ogra> but a lot of MOTUs were and took part in that discussion ...
[01:25] <lucas> is a video available or something ?
[01:25] <ogra> additionally it was held on IRC to make it possible to see what we are doing
[01:26] <zakame> heya MOTUs!
[01:26] <ajmitch_> hi zakame
[01:26] <zakame> hi ajmitch_
[01:26] <ogra> (together with a gobby session, so you could edit the schedule remotely)
[01:27] <siretart> lucas: short remark about your proposed syncing mechanism
[01:27] <siretart> lucas: current syncing works via a script which only elmo can access
[01:27] <zakame> what's this?
[01:28] <siretart> lucas: it does not only syncing, but does also integrate with mom and perhaps other stuff: short there is currently no other way for syncing
[01:28] <lucas> yeah, but this is infrastructure
[01:28] <lucas> most of the infrastructure in Ubuntu/MOTU isn't good enough, but we know that
[01:29] <siretart> there is a spec for launchpad to inlcude that: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/PackageSourceManagement
[01:29] <siretart> with that implemented, 'normal' developers will be able to access that script, AFAIU
[01:29] <Yagisan> yeah, it's not like we can set this up at home. Although with a bit of effort you can set up your own w-b system
[01:30] <siretart> I think this is rather critical to us, we should mention that to launchpad folks as well as to ubuntu-devel
[01:30] <siretart> lucas: you proposed some criteria when to sync
[01:30] <lucas> I personnally think that elmo should work on main packages, and that MOTU should handle syncs inside universe themselves
[01:31] <siretart> 'test' builds in advance can be quite expensive, but I think it is okay, when queued low priority. this should be done with the launchpad build network, though
[01:31] <jpatrick> siretart: revu has gone missing
[01:31] <lucas> seriously, on today's architectures, even building openoffice isn't that expensive
[01:32] <ajmitch_> jpatrick: looks like tiber fell over :)
[01:32] <siretart> the installation test could be done with diziets work on debtest (or however it is called)
[01:32] <ajmitch_> hi StevenK
[01:32] <StevenK> ajmitch_: You're up late.
[01:32] <ajmitch_> moderately so
[01:32] <StevenK> siretart: Fixed Linda on REVU yet? ;-)
[01:32] <lucas> siretart: autopkgtest is just the framework
[01:32] <siretart> other option would be a britney run on universe, which ajmitch is currently working on
[01:32] <lucas> piuparts does installation checks
[01:32] <Yagisan> ajmitch_ never sleeps. He just pretends too so he can lurk ;)
[01:33] <siretart> piuparts is not integrated into launchpad
[01:33] <ajmitch_> Yagisan: shh
[01:33] <lucas> there was a life before launchpad
[01:33] <siretart> lucas: what concerns me most is the last argument: "The updated package has been in Debian sid for ''n'' days, without any severity >= normal bug opened against it"
[01:33] <StevenK> Yagisan: Oh, spoke to work. The word was 'send in your CV'
[01:33] <ajmitch_> siretart: I'll try & appear online when I can - I'll be offline for a bit over the next couple of weeks though :)
[01:33] <siretart> lucas: this won't work like that. You have to check what other packages this would break. again, checked in debian by britney
[01:33] <lucas> we don't need to get everything integrated in launchpad
[01:34] <lucas> siretart: the main point of my wiki page is not the example proposal at the end
[01:34] <lucas> but the list of issues before it
[01:34] <lucas> the proposal is just an example of what could be acceptable with some tuning
[01:34] <siretart> thats the reason why I wanted to discuss this via emal
[01:34] <siretart> email
[01:35] <siretart> lucas: then I didn't quite get your proposal
[01:36] <lucas> it's not really a proposal
[01:36] <lucas> it's a "I'm tired of UVF and the current handling of universe" rant
[01:36] <siretart> if you want to improve the sync process (what really needs to be improved), then you have to know that the current process is via elmo, and will move to launchpad somewhen
[01:36] <dholbach> This is a "I'm tired of rants." rant.
[01:37] <siretart> lucas: I don't think UVF is the culprit. UVF doesn't prohibit updates
[01:37] <ogra> lucas, you did that rant from the first day in this channel ... we all heard it before ...
[01:37] <ogra> whats the usecase for putting it on the wiki additionally ? #
[01:37] <siretart> ogra: discussion
[01:37] <siretart> thats okay
[01:37] <ogra> just putting it in more places wont change the facts ...
[01:38] <siretart> which facts? I don't see many
[01:38] <lucas> ogra: is it fordidden to use sub-pages of your personal homepage to write stuff about Ubuntu ?
[01:38] <ogra> lucas, nope
[01:38] <lucas> ok. then stop complaining.
[01:39] <ogra> siretart, that we need more time for bugfixing in dapper and this the UVF is more strict this time for example
[01:39] <siretart> UVF does not prohibit bugfixing
[01:39] <siretart> you can still upload until the day before release
[01:39] <ogra> thats not what i wrote
[01:40] <StevenK> One to two a night.
[01:41] <ogra> siretart, UVF is about concentrating on bugfixes instead of looking for the newest shiny features and versions
[01:41] <StevenK> fort77 -O2  -c -o somnec.o somnec.f
[01:41] <StevenK> sh: line 1:  3253 Segmentation fault      /usr/bin/f2c -Nn802 -I. <somnec.f >/tmp/fort77-3251-1.c
[01:41] <StevenK> /usr/bin/fort77: aborting compilation
[01:41] <StevenK> Wheee.
[01:42] <ogra> and i guess you agree that it makes sense that we should concentrate more on it this time where users might be stuck with packages for 3/5 years ...
[01:45] <lucas> (I think supporting dapper for 3 years is a joke too, but this is OT)
[01:50] <zakame> UVF isn't really a barrier; think of it as a cocoon ;)
[01:50] <Yagisan> zakame: so we can eat our way out ??
[01:50] <zakame> or an eggshell, where the yolk slowly transforms into a chick ;)
[01:50] <zakame> Yagisan: in a way :)
[01:55] <Tonio_> dholbach: ping ?
[01:55] <dholbach> Tonio_: pong
[01:56] <Tonio_> may I ask you a question about gnome config dholbach ?
[01:56] <dholbach> gnome config?
[01:56] <Tonio_> dholbach: I'm currently working on kubuntu default settings, and it appears many users have problems with fonts
[01:57] <Tonio_> dholbach: while searching, I didn't find ubuntu users complaining
[01:57] <Tonio_> yep, you'll understand :)
[01:57] <dholbach> What are those problems with fonts?
[01:57] <Tonio_> so because the xorg settings are the same, we were asking the way gdm sets the fonts
[01:58] <Tonio_> dholbach: simply, on many computers, the dpi changes when you reboot, and fonts are completly different
[01:58] <dholbach> gdm shouldn't have anything to do with it.
[01:58] <Tonio_> dholbach: we were asking if you were forcing the dpi in gdm in fact :)
[01:58] <ogra> Tonio_, doesnt KDE use fontconfig as well for this ?
[01:58] <ogra> we dont
[01:59] <Tonio_> ogra let me ask Riddell
[01:59] <Riddell> I think gdm did use a fixed dpi once upon a time but doesn't any more
[02:00] <Riddell> which is why I'd like kdm to also use the X dpi not a fixed one
[02:00] <Tonio_> in fact the strange point is that ubuntu users don't mostly complain with fonts, when kubuntu ones seem to have lots of issues...
[02:01] <Riddell> but yes, we do get more complaints, and I'm not sure why
[02:01] <Riddell> KDE does use fontconfig
[02:06] <jpatrick> afternoon raphink
[02:12] <raphink> hi jpatrick
[02:13] <raphink> siretart: ping
[02:14] <siretart> raphink: only if its quick
[02:14] <raphink> siretart: could you nuke simias from REVU please?
[02:14] <raphink> siretart: there is a _major_ copyright issue on it, we should have never gotten this on there
[02:15] <siretart> I'll make you revu admin
[02:15] <tseng> raphink: uh
[02:15] <raphink> ok
[02:15] <tseng> raphink: please stop.
[02:15] <raphink> tseng: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1332 read the last comment
[02:15] <raphink> tseng: what?
[02:15] <raphink> tseng: the software contains source with headers such as "SECRET PROPERTY OF NOVELL"
[02:16] <raphink> I don't think we want that
[02:16] <tseng> raphink: I think we should have them fix it in good faith, not just nuke it and forget it ever happened
[02:16] <jpatrick> raphink: care to revu-report kdmtheme: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1690 ?
[02:16] <tseng> raphink: they already GPL'd flaim, previously SECRET PROPERTY in good faith
[02:16] <raphink> tseng: sure what do you propose?
[02:16] <tseng> raphink: Mez has contacts with upstream
[02:17] <siretart> raphink: you should be able to nuke yourself now
[02:17] <tseng> Mez could point out the copyright problem
[02:17] <raphink> tseng: ok then I shall talk to Mez see if he can have this fixed
[02:17] <tseng> thanks.
[02:17] <raphink> tseng: :)
[02:17] <raphink> Mez: ping
[02:18] <raphink> siretart: so I just have to rm -rf the /var/revu/revu1-incoming/$package-$date to nuke ?
[02:18] <siretart> raphink: first, archive it, then there is a link for nuking
[02:18] <siretart> after that, then remove that from /var/revu/revu1-incoming/
[02:18] <raphink> siretart: another question very quick : as you proposed, I know package revu-tools independantly as deb, so to get v.0.4 on REVU we'd have to install the deb
[02:19] <raphink> siretart: ok
[02:19] <siretart> raphink: cool. if you think it is ready, just upload it to ubuntu
[02:20] <raphink> siretart: hmm, to REVU first then I guess
[02:20] <siretart> since it is a motu internal tool/package anyway, I don't think we need reviewing via revu
[02:20] <raphink> hehe
[02:20] <raphink> ok then
[02:20] <raphink> I'll just add manpages to it first
[02:20] <siretart> but better upload the first version before FF
[02:21] <raphink> yep
[02:21] <raphink> I'll add manpages today then upload
[02:29] <sealne> siretart: i'm pretty sure i sent a signed email to keyring awhile ago but i just uploaded a package and its not showing, the package was dcfldd and my email is kenny@duffus.org is it possible to check?
[02:29] <staqen> what directory contains my desktop menu entry files?
[02:30] <Gloubiboulga> staqen, .desktop files go in /usr/share/applications/
[02:30] <staqen> Gloubiboulga: thank you
[02:30] <sealne> siretart: arg no matter, installing dput after setting /etc/dput.conf the way you want it means it gets splated, bad dput
[02:30] <Gloubiboulga> staqen, np
[02:31] <siretart> sealne: whats your keyid?
[02:32] <sealne> siretart: EEED70F3
[02:32] <siretart> sealne: done
[02:33] <sealne> actually uploading to revu might help, time to submit a bug for dput
[03:00] <zakame> hmm is REVU also affected by UVF? (I'm not subbed to dapper-changes, so I've no idea :/)
[03:00] <dholbach> NEW packages until Feature Freeze. (Feb 23)
[03:01] <dholbach> We should have a freeze before, so we only focus on getting stuff in that's on REVU already.
[03:02] <zakame> ah ok :D
[03:04] <phanatic> hi people
[03:07] <Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic, zakame
[03:07] <zakame> heya phanatic
[03:08] <Gloubiboulga> hi dholbach :)
[03:08] <phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga, zakame :)
[03:08] <phanatic> zakame: nanoweb got uploaded yesterday. thanks for your help :)
[03:08] <phanatic> raphink: ping
[03:08] <zakame> dholbach: how about bugs assigned to the motureviewers team? can fixes be made to close these?
[03:08] <zakame> heya Gloubiboulga
[03:09] <zakame> phanatic: yeah, no prob :D
[03:09] <zakame> gaah why is rosetta b0rking tonight? :(
[03:10] <jpatrick> zakame: updates
[03:11] <zakame> jpatrick: ah, just now...
[03:11] <jpatrick>  /topic at #ubuntu-devel
[03:25] <raphink> phanatic: pong
[03:26] <phanatic> raphink: i began working on ubuntu-grup-splashimages then
[03:26] <phanatic> s/grup/grub
[03:26] <raphink> oh good
[03:26] <raphink> any issue so far?
[03:28] <phanatic> i'm in the collecting stage now :)
[03:28] <phanatic> but did update debian/control
[03:29] <phanatic> Build-Depends-Indep -> Build-Depends
[03:29] <phanatic> and compat 5 (debhelper >= 5.0.7)
[03:29] <raphink> hehe
[03:29] <raphink> ;)
[03:29] <raphink> I discovered about the Build-Depends-Indep only later
[03:29] <raphink> ;)
[03:29] <phanatic> i know :)
[03:31] <zakame> why? can't splashimages be arch: all?
[03:31] <zakame> heya zul Amaranth
[03:31] <Amaranth> hi
[03:32] <jamessan> zakame: even arch: all packages will frequently have Build-Depends.  anything needed during the clean target has to be in Build-Depends
[03:32] <phanatic> zakame: they are
[03:32] <phanatic> but there was a discussion about this issue on debian-devel as raphink pointed out
[03:32] <raphink> jamessan: that's the right reason, indeed
[03:32] <raphink> jamessan: you seem to know quite more than me on the reason why it is so :)
[03:33] <zakame> so is there something in clean aside from {,build-}essential that should be B-D in that?
[03:33] <jamessan> zakame: I haven't looked at splashimages packaging, but if it uses cdbs, that'd be needed in B-D
[03:33] <raphink> well from what I've understood, very few things are acceptable in Build-D-I
[03:34] <raphink> debhelper and cdbs at least have to go to B-D
[03:34] <raphink> docbook2x for example could be in B-D-I though
[03:34] <raphink> when used
[03:34] <raphink> just trying to find examples
[03:35] <zakame> jamessan: ah indeed
[03:36] <zakame> in general build-indep targets need B-D-I
[03:37] <zakame> so a `debian/rules binary-indep` would run needing only the B-D-I
[03:38] <jamessan> well, B-D and B-D-I are required when running binary-indep/build-indep
[03:39] <jamessan> http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-sourcebinarydeps
[03:41] <raphink> :)
[03:41] <jamessan> it's easier to look at it as "Which targets don't need B-D-I"
[03:42] <zakame> ah
[03:49] <phanatic> raphink: i upload the package now to revu
[03:52] <Gloubiboulga> dh_python is supposed to find all python deps ?
[03:58] <phanatic> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1695
[03:58] <raphink> phanatic: wait
[03:58] <phanatic> ok
[04:02] <phanatic> raphink: i have to go now... please leave a comment, i'll read it later :)
[04:20] <raphink> siretart: manpages done, package checked, double checked and triple checked, and just uploaded to ubuntu :)
[04:21] <jpatrick> nice
[04:22] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1690 :)
[04:22] <raphink> siretart: ultimate test, ran revu-report on the revu-tools package ;)
[04:23] <raphink> it'll surely be in before FF :)
[04:23] <tseng> remind me when FF is?
[04:24] <Gloubiboulga> Feb 23 iirc
[04:24] <dholbach> yes
[04:24] <dholbach> Who helps with writing the MOTU report?
[04:24] <tseng> no proble, then
[04:24] <tseng> problem
[04:30] <Gloubiboulga> may I ask some help to a python stuff packager?
[04:38] <staqen> i think ubuntu should include gimpshop, which is cool (or, to be more specific, a photoshop-like "front-end" to gimp)! ( http://plasticbugs.com/?page_id=294 )
[04:41] <lfittl> staqen: This is already filed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[04:41] <staqen> lfittl: cool. do you think we'll have it in dapper already?
[04:42] <lfittl> staqen: I don't think so, see the comment in the "Packaging Information" section
[04:43] <azeem> staqen: is that just a skin/theme, or do you need to patch/rebuild gimp for that?
[04:43] <lfittl> azeem: you need to patch/rebuild gimp
[04:59] <slomo> hm, does someone know a console mail client which can read maildirs?
[04:59] <jamessan> mutt
[05:01] <slomo> jamessan: hmm, do you have a working muttrc for me somewhere? mine only want to read mboxes, no maildirs
[05:02] <jamessan> slomo: the relevant options are mbox_type and mailboxes
[05:02] <raphink> jpatrick: I don't understand why you uploaded kdmtheme again instead of kcontrol-kdmtheme
[05:03] <jpatrick> raphink: someone said don't change the original tarball
[05:04] <raphink> jpatrick: this hsa nothing to do with the name of the package
[05:04] <raphink> you can keep the tarball as such yet use another name for the package
[05:04] <jpatrick> * upstream tarball changed. Please just repack the .bz2.
[05:04] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1683
[05:04] <raphink> jpatrick: yep
[05:04] <raphink> jpatrick: read the reviewing guide on the wiki about this please
[05:05] <raphink> jpatrick: this has really nothing to do with the name of the package
[05:05] <jpatrick> raphink: the package it makes is called kcontrol-kdmtheme
[05:05] <raphink> jpatrick: you are the one setting up the name of the package :p
[05:05] <raphink> you don't have to change the upstream tarball to set your package name
[05:05] <raphink> ;)
[05:06] <jpatrick> :|
[05:07] <raphink> jpatrick: ok let me explain if you're not gonna read the guide ;)
[05:07] <raphink> jpatrick: what you should do is :
[05:08] <raphink> bunzip2 $upstream.tar.bz2 && gzip -9 $upstream.tar && mv $upstream.tar.gz $theorigyouwant.orig.tar.gz
[05:08] <raphink> jpatrick: this way the tarball is not changed, and you can name the package the way you want
[05:08] <jpatrick> that's what I did.....
[05:09] <raphink> jpatrick: and it made you a kdmtheme package? from a kcontrol-kdmtheme orig?
[05:09] <jpatrick> the orig is 'kdmtheme'
[05:09] <jpatrick> downloaded from kde-apps.org
[05:09] <raphink> jpatrick: why, if we want a kcontrol-kdmetheme package?
[05:10] <raphink> jpatrick: it was discussed before that is was better to make a kcontrol-kdmtheme package
[05:10] <raphink> to keep it in the logic of other kcontrol modules
[05:10] <jpatrick> src package == kdmtheme, binary it produces => kcontrol-kdmtheme
[05:10] <raphink> ah
[05:10] <raphink> if you want
[05:10] <raphink> sorry then, I'm fine with that
[05:11] <raphink> I'm just used to usoing the same name for src package and binary package it produces
[05:11] <raphink> since I find that clearer
[05:11] <raphink> ;)
[05:11] <jpatrick> debian/control
[05:11] <raphink> but it's up to you
[05:11] <raphink> yeah yeah jpatrick ok
[05:12] <raphink> that's a way of doing it, so it's ok :)
[05:13] <raphink> jpatrick: uscan says there's a newer version
[05:13] <jpatrick> I was told not to change orig tarball's name
[05:13] <raphink> ah no sorry
[05:13] <raphink> hehe it says you're using obsolete version of debian/watch
[05:13] <raphink> please use a debian/watch version 3 instead of 1
[05:14] <jpatrick> odd I copied that one of the New Maintainer Guide
[05:15] <raphink> hehe
[05:15] <raphink> the NMG might be a bit old on this
[05:15] <raphink> obsolete even
[05:15] <raphink> current version of debian/watch is 3
[05:16] <jpatrick> I add "version=3" ?
[05:16] <raphink> jpatrick: here's an example : http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kblogger-0602061835/kblogger-0.4.1/debian/watch
[05:17] <jpatrick> ahh I get it now
[05:21] <jpatrick> reuploading...
[05:22] <raphink> ok
[05:26] <jpatrick> arg
[05:26] <raphink> jpatrick: what?
[05:26] <jpatrick> I fixed styleclock's watch file
[05:26] <jpatrick> not kdmtheme
[05:26] <raphink> ah ok
[05:26] <raphink> that's good too ;)
[05:27] <raphink> whatever you fix is good
[05:29] <jpatrick> that should do it
[05:29] <raphink> ok
[05:31] <jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1698
[05:33] <jpatrick> btw I think sealne would like it if you looked at his package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1697
[05:43] <jpatrick> raphink: what should I do about the watch?
[05:43] <raphink> nothing, doesn't matter
[05:44] <jpatrick> okay :)
[05:47] <jpatrick> raphink: says old-fsf-address
[05:48] <raphink> then change it
[05:50] <jpatrick> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1683 <= I was told to put it there :/
[05:51] <jpatrick> heh, I'll poke upstream
[05:51] <raphink> ok
[06:11] <fbond> hello all
[06:11] <fbond> is it definately too late to get a new package into dapper universe?
[06:11] <jpatrick> hello fbond
[06:11] <jpatrick> No
[06:11] <fbond> ok
[06:11] <jpatrick> until the 23rd
[06:11] <fbond> the release schedule made me think otherwise... is that just for main?
[06:12] <jpatrick> main + universe
[06:12] <dholbach> Feature Freeze for NEW packages.
[06:12] <ogra> UVF != feature freeze
[06:12] <fbond> ah
[06:13] <fbond> i put together a few packages and have them in an unofficial repository; it's been requested by some that I try to get them into ubuntu proper
[06:14] <fbond> naturally, i would want to scrutinize them more closely, but i don't have much history with the ubuntu community, and wondered if getting these into dapper is even feasible
[06:14] <fbond> thoughts?
[06:15] <ogra> packages we include need to be reviewed and signed off by 2 universe maintainers ...
[06:15] <ogra> upload the source package to REVU .... to get them reviewed
[06:15] <fbond> ok
[06:16] <fbond> i saw the instructions for that on the wiki
[06:16] <fbond> didn't know if there was a pre-req...
[06:16] <ogra> there is none ... just get access to upload to REVU and upload the surce package ...
[06:17] <ogra> if its signed off, someone will upload it to the archive for you
[06:18] <fbond> ok, i got it -- thanks
[06:31] <Casanova> hi i have uploaded 2 packages LDTP and LTFX to http://prash.be/ldtp/ubuntu/ can i simply send this link to the mailing list for approval or is there any specific website that i should upload to?
[06:33] <lfittl> Casanova: Upload them to REVU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU)
[06:34] <Casanova> lfittl> how can i get my gpg key added to the keyring?
[06:35] <lfittl> "Please send a signed email with your GnuPG keyid, asking to be added to the REVU keyring, to keyring@tiber.tauware.de"
[06:35] <Casanova> ok :)
[06:35] <lfittl> ;)
[06:35] <Casanova> i was just wondering if we could get this over with on irc itself :D
[06:44] <jpatrick> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1700
[06:53] <mhz> ogra: ping
[06:53] <mhz> oops, sorry ogra
[07:15] <jpatrick> raphink: uploaded
[07:56] <Gloubiboulga> If upstream provides a desktop file, a .menu file is really usefull ?
[07:57] <Gloubiboulga> I mean adding a .menu for the deb package
[08:05] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: menu files aren't to hard to add to debian/ you might just add one for completeness
[08:06] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I don't think Ubuntu uses them much (other than if you install the Debian menu)
[08:06] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, k
[08:06] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I had a look at a package on REVU and wondered if it was really needed
[08:06] <frans-th> hi all
[08:06] <frans-th> anyone update oo @ breezy with the newest?
[08:07] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I don't think it hurts :-)
[08:07] <Gloubiboulga> thanks LaserJock :)
[08:07] <LaserJock> frans-th: update the OO in breezy to dapper's OO ?
[08:08] <frans-th> why?
[08:08] <frans-th> is there a way to make breezy run oo2?
[08:08] <frans-th> i read that the repo is 18months for breezy
[08:08] <frans-th> so there will be update for 00 for 18 months
[08:09] <LaserJock> frans-th: Dapper has the latest OO from Debian unstable I believe
[08:09] <Mithrandir> we don't upgrade packages in the repositories in the period they're supported for.
[08:09] <LaserJock> frans-th: when Dapper is released you can update then
[08:09] <Mithrandir> "supported" means "gets security fixes", not "gets the latest bling".
[08:12] <siretart> frans-th: use these packages: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2/
[08:15] <ajmitch_> morning
[08:15] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch_
[08:15] <LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
[08:16] <frans-th> siretart, why the doko never put in the archive?
[08:16] <dholbach> LaserJock: pong
[08:16] <LaserJock> dholbach: how's the apt-get.org stuff coming?
[08:16] <dholbach> LaserJock: not at all.
[08:16] <dholbach> LaserJock: I'm just too busy with other stuff atm.
[08:17] <LaserJock> dholbach: :-) I see
[08:17] <LaserJock> dholbach: just wondered
[08:17] <frans-th> siretart, what is the distribution name of this? universe?
[08:17] <ajmitch_> LaserJock: dig in & review some packages for dholbach
[08:17] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
[08:18] <dholbach> But I'd prefer other people to do more useful stuff.
[08:18] <dholbach> very much so
[08:18] <dholbach> like REVUing
[08:18] <dholbach> so we get in all the good work from you guys until feature freeze
[08:18] <LaserJock> well, I don't get to REVU so maybe I'll manage to take a look at a few of the apt-get.org packages
[08:19] <siretart> frans-th: because we don't update stable releases except for very important updates. that ooo2 backport is not that important to put it to breezy-updates. but perhaps you ask him yourself
[08:19] <ajmitch_> and feature freeze is in 2 weeks, so we don't have much time
[08:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: As I said, it's better to get REVU packages in.
[08:19] <ajmitch_> I've got a few packages outstanding that still haven't even been uploaded to REVU
[08:20] <dholbach> I appreciate the help, but I think it's more sensible to get the REVU packages up to scratch.
[08:20] <frans-th> siretart, how to try doko oo2?
[08:20] <frans-th> i add the source, but distribution and section, still dont know
[08:21] <LaserJock> dholbach: sure, but I can't advocate so I'm not much of a help getting the REVU list down
[08:21] <dholbach> LaserJock: help people.
[08:21] <frans-th> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2/dists/breezy-updates/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz: 404 Not Found
[08:22] <tseng> wow i have a like 10 kernels installed
[08:22] <LaserJock> dholbach: but I really should be working on the Packaging Guide so maybe I shouldn't get spread too thin. I also need to finish my PhD some time ;-)
[08:22] <dholbach> :)
[08:22] <ajmitch_> tseng: so did I until /boot filled up
[08:22] <tseng> when i propsed the packaging guide i didnt mean for it to suck up a year of man hours
[08:23] <Casanova> hello i have uploaded 2 packages ldtp and ltfx to revu... now what do i do?
[08:23] <LaserJock> tseng: but it is a really cool project
[08:23] <Casanova> should i send a mail to the mailing list infomring the upload?
[08:28] <tseng> hi ajmitch_
[08:28] <tseng> i thought you were gone
[08:28] <ajmitch_> tseng: this afternoon
[08:28] <tseng> that means about nothing to me
[08:29] <tseng> we probably arent even talking about the same day
[08:29] <ajmitch_> ok, I'll leave here in about 5 hours
[08:29] <ajmitch_> I just crawled out of bed
[08:33] <ajmitch_> if I request a UVF exception for f-spot now, I'll need to do it again once a release is made with FlickrNet support
[08:34] <iBalo> Did anyone manage to get seamonkey 1.0 working in breezy? Or maybe a .deb around?
[09:17] <dholbach> good night
[09:18] <lfittl> gn8 dholbach
[09:56] <Kyral> Yo
[09:56] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[10:31] <Kyral> Here goes nothing
[10:43] <phanatic> hi people
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
[10:44] <phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
[10:45] <phanatic> raphink: ping
[11:01] <Kyral> Good lord
[11:01] <Kyral> my laptop's SBU is like 21 mins...
[11:46] <chillywilly> how much disk space would it take to properly mirror the ubuntu packages? Can I do a partial mirror of some sort? I ask this because I had a situation where I really needed to be able to install certain things at a location where there was no net connection and this was one of my biggest issues
[11:47] <chillywilly> the install CD didn't have everything that I needed either
[11:47] <chillywilly> just trying to do some planning to avoid that in the future
[11:48] <tiCo89> man debmirror :-)
[11:48] <azeem> I think there's a DVD image available
[11:48] <tiCo89> should also work with ubuntu
[11:48] <chillywilly> azeem: cool
[11:48] <chillywilly> ok tiCo89
[11:49] <Amaranth> the dvd has all of main, iirc
[11:51] <chillywilly> also I installed the am64 k8 smp but I get an oops when I go to boot that thing...where should I send the report? bug tracker?
[11:51] <chillywilly> the latest
[11:52] <Amaranth> the -15 kernel?
[11:53] <chillywilly> yea
[11:53] <ajmitch> latest breezy kernel, or dapper?
[11:53] <chillywilly> the latest 2.6.12 kernel in breezy
[11:54] <chillywilly> -amd64-k8-smp or whatever
[11:54] <ajmitch> right
[11:54] <ajmitch> file it on malone with the oops details if you can capture them
[11:54] <chillywilly> ok
[11:55] <ajmitch> maybe https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.12/+filebug
[11:56] <chillywilly> I think I have an account...anyway I would need to install that kernel again on one of our servers and attempt to boot it again and I am not at work anymore
[11:58] <ajmitch> ok
[11:58] <ajmitch> how late were you there?
[11:58] <chillywilly> 3am
[11:58] <chillywilly> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.12/+bug/29882
[11:58] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29882 in linux-source-2.6.12 "Oooops when booting on dual amd64" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[11:58] <chillywilly> sounds similar to that
[11:59] <ajmitch> ouch, 3am?
[11:59] <chillywilly> yea
[11:59] <chillywilly> roughly
[12:00] <chillywilly> I was driving back at around 2:50am or so
[12:01] <chillywilly> I have shorewall doing proxyarp again and I had to add rules for some of the services, etc.
[12:01] <chillywilly> wonder if I can find the oops in the syslog