[12:02] <mjg59> Right
[12:02] <mjg59> Well, it's almost certainly a gnome-screensaver issue
[12:02] <HiddenWolf> Hm.
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> great, now I have to look nice at seb128 again. :/
[12:04] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: well, thanks anyway.
[01:09] <Drac[Server] > Is there ny way I can get Ubuntu to see this old ISA ethernet controller card?
[01:17] <Drac[Server] > any*
[01:34] <infinity> Drac[Server] : ISA doesn't hotplug, so you need to modprobe the driver manually (or list it in /etc/modules), that's all.
[01:35] <HrdwrBoB> the best thing to do is to go to #ubuntu
[01:35] <HrdwrBoB> and tell them you threw it out
[01:54] <HrdwrBoB> any movement on this
[01:54] <HrdwrBoB> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/29768
[01:54] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29768 in glibc "Australian timezones incorrect for 2006" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[02:06] <wasabi_> So is anybody doing anything at all with trying to hammer XGl together enough to provide dapper packages?
[02:12] <Burgwork> wasabi, mjg59 has talked about it
[02:13] <jsgotangco> hey Burgwork nice seeing you again :)
[02:13] <xhaker> Burgwork: do you happen to know anything about gksu bindings for python?
[02:14] <xhaker> i can't even find what module to load
[02:45] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, I was away on business for a few days, then moving. Still don't have internet at home
[02:47] <jsgotangco> oh
[03:02] <infinity> Ugh.  The gnome-power-manager icons are really quite hideous, compared to the old power applet.
[03:05] <HiddenWolf> infinity: I rather like the menu icon.
[03:06] <HiddenWolf> infinity: then again, i'm using tango.
[03:13] <infinity> The menu icon is cute, it's the applet icons I object to.
[03:14] <infinity> I guess the clean and simple icons of old aren't cool anymore in the new world order.
[03:14] <HiddenWolf> hm
[03:14] <HiddenWolf> try checking out the nautilus icon on the splash screen when logging in. ;)
[03:14] <infinity> The network applet changed icons to something much fuzzier and less clean looking too, which I'm not keen on.
[03:15] <whiprush> infinity: did you get any good feedback on the madwifi-ng testing?
[03:15] <infinity> HiddenWolf: The shell icon that occasioanlly pops up, but not always?... I think that's a poorly-thought-out easter egg, or something.
[03:15] <infinity> whiprush: Some.  Not sure if we have enough feedback to push forward with it.
[03:15] <whiprush> ah.
[03:15] <HiddenWolf> Hm, I get it for 99% of the time, and it's damn ugly. :)
[03:15] <whiprush> add me to the "it's broken for me list"
[03:16] <infinity> whiprush: Especially since many people claim to use madwifi on amd64, where we currently KNOW it's broken in the -ng branch. :/
[03:16] <whiprush> ah
[03:16] <whiprush> :-/
[03:16] <infinity> whiprush: Which was broken for you?... -ng?
[03:16] <whiprush> yeah
[03:16] <infinity> whiprush: Shame.
[03:16] <whiprush> that l-r-m package you posted the other day
[03:16] <whiprush> indeed.
[03:17] <infinity> I think we'll probably be stuck shipping madwifi-old one last time (for dapper), then switching to -ng as soon as dapper+1 opens and trying to shake out the bugs.
[03:17] <infinity> But time will tell.  We may end up with a convincing reason to force the switch.
[03:17] <infinity> (The biggest reason was network-manager...)
[03:17] <whiprush> I am picking up an ipw2200 just in case.
[03:18] <infinity> madwifi-old + network-manager = B-R-O-K-E-N
[03:18] <whiprush> yeah.
[03:18] <tseng> whiprush: once you go intel, you dont go back
[03:18] <tseng> or something
[03:18] <whiprush> I thought it was fine until my neighbors got an AP
[03:18] <infinity> madwifi-old insists on dropping your association before scanning for networks.  thpethul.
[03:18] <whiprush> now I always get stuck on theirs
[03:19] <whiprush> tseng: maybe I can make this to be an excuse to pick up an X60
[03:19] <tseng> whiprush: i wont stop you
[03:19] <infinity> I keep trying to come up with valid excuses to pick up a T60.
[03:19] <infinity> I think I just need to find someone in .au willing to buy my T43 without taking a terrible loss, then I can justify it.
[03:19] <whiprush> still waiting for a Z series to come in to work
[03:20] <whiprush> they're very backordered
[03:20] <tseng> how do you guys use a thinkpad with such a retarded Ctrl key
[03:20] <tseng> if i could swap Ctrl and Space i think i would
[03:20] <whiprush> tseng: map caps lock to ctrl. It's the way God intended anyway
[03:21] <tseng> whiprush: my hero
[03:21] <tseng> whiprush: is that possible in $otheros
[03:21] <HiddenWolf> Why is it that everyone is so raving about the ibm laptops?
[03:21] <HiddenWolf> specially since they're not IBM anymore?
[03:21] <whiprush> tseng: I believe so actually.
[03:21] <tseng> HiddenWolf: they werent "IBM" in that sense for a long time aiui
[03:22] <tseng> HiddenWolf: but they use premium components
[03:22] <tseng> whiprush: i could just get another HHK for work and move on
[03:22] <whiprush> I have 2 myself
[03:23] <HiddenWolf> Hm.
[03:23] <tseng> lite2?
[03:23] <whiprush> yeah
[03:23] <HiddenWolf> I guess the components are good, but I don't like the screen sizes.
[03:23] <tseng> rock
[03:23] <tseng> only complaint is the hub is usb1
[03:23] <tseng> this isnt 1998
[03:23] <whiprush> heh
[03:23] <tseng> good enough for a mouse
[03:23] <tseng> but not a usb key
[03:23] <infinity> HiddenWolf: What's wrong with the screen sizes?.. Do you demand a 17" monster?
[03:24] <glick> excuse me...the nvidia drivers, is there any benefit gained by installing them if you have to disable the RenderAccel option?
[03:24] <tseng> i care more about resolution than physical size
[03:24] <infinity> I find my 15" on the T43 makes the whole thing a bit too large, so I'll drop to a 14 inch T60.
[03:24] <tseng> more pixels for the pushing
[03:24] <HiddenWolf> infinity: no, but i'm used to 1920x1200, and I don't think I can take 1024x800
[03:24] <infinity> HiddenWolf: Mine's 1400x1050
[03:24] <tseng> HiddenWolf: 1440x1050 is "just right"
[03:24] <tseng> HiddenWolf: if you are a widescreen dude
[03:25] <HiddenWolf> tseng: i've got a 24" widescreen at home, I'd guess so.
[03:25] <HiddenWolf> infinity: how much did it set you back?
[03:26] <infinity> glick: The only benefit in the binary drivers is OpenGL accel (and some fancy dual-head stuff). If you don't care about either, stick with the free driver, it's more stable.
[03:26] <glick> infinity, will it speed up my x rendering and redrawing apps on the screen?
[03:26] <infinity> HiddenWolf: 2GHz Pentium M, 2GB of RAM, 15 inch 1400x1050, many other bells/whistles, about 2K USD.
[03:27] <HiddenWolf> infinity: that's what I was afraid of.
[03:27] <whiprush> infinity: so is it safe to assume that you'll be sticking with -old for dapper?
[03:27] <infinity> Yeah, IBM isn't cheap.  OTOH, I've had a very good track record with them.
[03:27] <whiprush> ie. if I had to make a safe bet?
[03:27] <HiddenWolf> infinity: I'd gladly take a 1.3ghz, 512 of ram, with the 1400x1050 screen. :)
[03:27] <infinity> whiprush: It seems most likely at this point.
[03:28] <infinity> HiddenWolf: Their slowest 1400x1050 offerring is a 1.86GHz Pentium M, ringing in at 1650 USD.
[03:29] <HiddenWolf> infinity: feel my hurt. :)
[03:29] <glick> infinity, ?
[03:30] <infinity> HiddenWolf: Well, that's if you want the portability of a T series.  The R series stuff is cheaper.
[03:30] <infinity> glick: I've not noticed the binary driver being particularly speedier in 2D than the free driver.
[03:30] <infinity> glick: It used to be, but the free driver has had a lot of good work put into it.
[03:31] <glick> cause i dont really run 3d apps
[03:31] <HiddenWolf> infinity: I still feel nvidia driver is snappier by a bit, but I could just run into cairo/fontconfig/gtk slowless and blame the driver.
[03:31] <glick> although being able to use some of the xmms visual plugins would be kinna nice
[03:31] <infinity> glick: If you don't do 3D, do yourself a favour and use the free driver.  Really.
[03:32] <tseng> the free driver flickers around the edges at high resolutions
[03:32] <HiddenWolf> tseng: high refresh rates maybe
[03:32] <HiddenWolf> tseng: did 1920x1200x60hz with it for six months without issue. 
[03:32] <infinity> tseng: Is there a bug filed about it at fd.o?
[03:33] <tseng> infinity: dunno, ive noticed it for years
[03:33] <tseng> its not constant, you notice it occassionally when moving a window or something
[03:33] <tseng> you get a bit of artifacting along the edge
[03:33] <infinity> tseng: I've not noticed it at all, so bugs are nice. :)
[03:33] <tseng> it goes a few times until it bothers me enough to switch drivers
[03:34] <HiddenWolf> tseng: well, moving a window gives a lot or artifacts with whatever you do these days.
[03:34] <tseng> "nvidia" or "ati" are smooth as silk for me
[03:34] <tseng> at least wrt what im talking about
[03:36] <HiddenWolf> tseng: nvidia is closed, ati is open
[03:36] <HiddenWolf> tseng: fglrx is the ati closed one.
[03:36] <tseng> ok?
[03:37] <tseng> (yes, I knew that)
[03:37] <tseng> not sure that has anything to do with a driver having flickering or not
[04:26] <seth> if the new ndiswrapper is showing my wlan0 as eth1 and refusing to bring it up, is that a bug, or something that I have set wrong?
[04:26] <crimsun> in 2.6.15-15.20?
[04:26] <seth> yep
[04:27] <seth> it didn't even insert the module before -15
[04:27] <seth> now the module loads, and eth1 is listed as my wireless interface
[04:27] <seth> but it won't ifup
[04:27] <seth> it used to be called wlan0
[04:27] <seth> but knowing me, it could be something set wrong instead of a bug
[04:27] <seth> so I wanted to check before filing a bugreport
[04:28] <crimsun> (see #ubuntu)
[07:46] <pitti> hey
[08:13] <glick> scuse me any idea why my w and who commands are acting strange all of a sudden?
[08:21] <Treenaks> 'strange' ?
[08:22] <glick> Treenaks, as in not displaying logged in users
[08:22] <glick> showing users as 0
[08:33] <Mithrandir> doko: I played a bit with the experimental ooo packages and they seem to not work very well.  Problems opening OOo documents, etc.
[08:45] <JaneW> **Reminder** Dapper Dev Status Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 15 mins.
[08:48] <dholbach> good morning
[08:54] <JaneW> Lathiat: ping -> #ubuntu-meeitng
[08:54] <JaneW> meeting I mean
[08:54] <JaneW> sivang: ping-> Dapper meeting
[08:56] <pitti> Kamion: does germinate already support automatic seeding of -dev/-doc/-dbg?
[08:59] <JaneW> hi BenC
[08:59] <Kamion> pitti: no, not yet, sorry
[08:59] <BenC> hey
[08:59] <pitti> hi BenC 
[08:59] <pitti> moin seb128 
[08:59] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:02] <JaneW> ajmitch: ping
[09:05] <BenC> pitti: hey
[09:09] <doko> Mithrandir: OOo docs, or only MS docs?
[09:09] <Mithrandir> doko: OOo docs.  Not very complicated ones either.
[09:10] <Mithrandir> doko: either fails to open or gives garbled docs
[09:10] <doko> hmm, that would be worse than with previous snapshots
[09:11] <freeflying> doko: my OOo keep crash when I try open file have chinese content
[09:11] <Mithrandir> doko: I'm sorry that it's not very useful as a bug report.  I can prod it around a bit more, but my gut feeling is that ooo-amd64 isn't ready
[09:20] <pitti> seb128: on current ppc/live, I only have an evo icon in the panel, no more yelp and ffox - is that intended?
[09:20] <seb128> yelp is intended, firefox is not
[09:21] <seb128> is that a laptop or desktop profile?
[09:21] <pitti> seb128: it's my laptop, not sure what you mean by 'profile'
[09:21] <seb128> so that's a laptop :)
[09:22] <seb128> gnome-panel has a desktop and a laptop profile for the default panel config
[09:22] <seb128> one has battstat the other hasn't it
[09:22] <pitti> oh, I didn't know that - so far they always looked the same on my two boxes
[09:22] <pitti> ah, right
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: but I don't have a battstat here
[09:23] <seb128> the gnome-panel-data.postinst has that:
[09:23] <seb128>     if [ -x /usr/sbin/laptop-detect ]  && /usr/sbin/laptop-detect; then
[09:23] <seb128>         echo "laptop configuration"
[09:23] <seb128> ...
[09:23] <seb128> anyway I'm not sure that the liveCD uses the same profile, Mithrandir?
[09:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: it calls reconfigure on gnome-panel-data and chroot /root /bin/sh -c 'gconftool-2 -t bool -s /apps/panel/global/disable_l
[09:24] <Mithrandir> ock_screen true'
[09:25] <seb128> pitti: do you have a file:///usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop ?
[09:26] <pitti> it's in the menu, let me check
[09:26] <pitti> yes
[09:27] <pitti> seb128: laptop-detect returns with 0, so that seems to work
[09:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: logout on the live CD doesn't work, it just makes the desktop hang; known?
[09:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: not really.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: any idea what's hanging?  (You have shells on tty1-6)
[09:32] <pitti> bah, now it worked of course (it's my second session, I killed the first one with ctrl+alt+backspace)
[09:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: will investigate later
[09:33] <Mithrandir> thanks
[09:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's back, let's do that after the meeting; it seems that it hangs when a terminal is opened
[09:36] <seb128> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/30038 ... what package is to blame?
[09:36] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30038 in gnome-applets "SmartBattery load level not shown" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: iz hal bug, but that requires a wholly new device class (reading i2c devices)
[09:38] <seb128> k, reassigning to hal so, thank you :)
[09:50] <doko> ogra: the schooltool developers promised to fix schooltool for 3.2 before feature freeze
[09:51] <ogra> doko, yes, i talked to jinty yesterday ...
[09:51] <ogra> but i'll have to take schooltool out temporary for the CDs to be installable :/
[09:51] <ogra> and schooltool will have less testing through that ... which is kind of worrying me
[10:04] <Kagou> hi
[10:09] <sivang> Riddell: keep is the name of the tool?
[10:10] <pitti> Kamion: no daily/current for ppc - is that a transient problem or a bug somewhere?
[10:10] <ogra> kernel transition ? 
[10:10] <Kamion> please don't speculate
[10:10] <Kamion> I need to make the logs public so that people can look
[10:10] <Kamion> Running tools/boot/dapper/boot-powerpc 1 /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/daily/tmp/dapper-powerpc/CD1
[10:11] <Kamion> cp: cannot create directory `powerpc/cdrom': Permission denied
[10:11] <Kamion> make: *** [/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/daily/tmp/dapper-powerpc/bootable-stamp]  Error 1
[10:11] <Kamion> hmm, odd
[10:11] <ogra> ouch
[10:11] <Riddell> sivang: yes, it's on revu
[10:12] <Riddell> sivang: it uses rdiff-backup
[10:12] <Riddell> sivang: http://jr.falleri.free.fr/keep
[10:13] <Kamion> impressive, somehow stuff ended up as group warthogs
[10:14] <Kamion> pitti: should be cleared up in a bit, thanks for the report
[10:14] <ogra> hmm, why are all changes mails from <user>@drescher... suddenly ? 
[10:14] <pitti> Kamion: thanks
[10:14] <Kamion> ogra: see #canonical and https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+bug/30938
[10:14] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30938 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "manual source accepts from new result in bizarre mails" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:14] <Kamion> it's not all, it's only manual source accepts from new
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: if that firefox icon on live CD works for you, how can I debug it?
[10:15] <ogra> ah :)
[10:15] <ogra> somehow my mind always drops the @ in the addresses .... looks like we're a big family now ... ian drscher and daniel drescher etc :)
[10:15] <seb128> pitti: I don't know if it works, I've not tried a liveCD for some weeks now. But that part has not changed for ages, does it do the same on a ppc installation?
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: if it works on an installation that's a liveCD bug, I don't know what they change
[10:16] <Kamion> 'apt-get source casper', not hard to find out ...
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: I wait for the current ppc/install, then I'll reinstall my laptop again to find out
[10:17] <pitti> I want to do a new test-install anyway
[10:17] <seb128> oki
[10:26] <lucas> hi
[10:27] <lucas> what's the policy regarding uploads to breezy-updates for universe packages ?
[10:27] <lucas> who does the reviewing ?
[10:27] <pitti> mvo: can you please ping me when you have some minutes to discuss desktop files in g-a-i?
[10:27] <mvo> pitti: sure, will /msg you
[10:28] <seb128> feel free to talk on #ubuntu-desktop about that :)
[10:28] <pitti> ok
[10:28] <seb128> lucas: good question, what do you want to upload?
[10:28] <lucas> librmagick-ruby
[10:29] <lucas> to fix LP bugs 1299 and 4636
[10:29] <Kamion> lucas: currently mdz and I are the only reviewers for -updates
[10:29] <Kamion> not that uploading to -updates really works at the moment with the soyuz migration - please hold off a bit on that until we have a process in place
[10:30] <lucas> ok
[10:30] <lucas> any approximative timeline ?
[10:30] <mdz> lucas: that'd be a #launchpad question; I'm not sure
[10:31] <lucas> ok
[10:31] <mdke> lucas, see the launchpad-users list there was an update about it yesterday
[10:33] <Kamion> seb128: I think you typoed the bug number when duplicating #30904
[10:33] <seb128> bug #30904
[10:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30904 in eog "Can't open the Win shared pictures" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30904
[10:34] <seb128> right, I used the bugzilla number
[10:34] <seb128> Kamion: thanks for pointing it
[10:34] <seb128> fixed
[10:35] <Kamion> np
[10:39] <carlos> pitti: hi, do you have some minutes for me?
[10:39] <pitti> carlos: yes
[10:41] <carlos> pitti: could you provide me a build output with your new strip translations script?
[10:41] <carlos> pitti: I need it for testing purposes
[10:41] <carlos> I suppose it would be a pmount build
[10:41] <carlos> I suppose it would be enough with a pmount build
[10:41] <pitti> carlos: 'new' - you mean the one which adds the tarball to the .changes?
[10:41] <carlos> pitti: yes
[10:42] <pitti> sure, no problem
[10:42] <carlos> so we can add some tests for that before moving it into production
[10:42] <pitti> do you also need the built source tree?
[10:42] <carlos> pitti: the .deb, sources and any output it generates
[10:42] <pitti> or only tarball and changes?
[10:42] <pitti> ok, I'll just tar up the complete dir
[10:42] <carlos> well, I suppose it's enough with only the files referenced by the .changes file
[10:43] <carlos> but If you give me the whole output I'm sure I don't need to ask you anything else later ;-)
[10:43] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[10:50] <janimo> pitti, did the firewall work turned out to be too much to finish for dapper?
[10:50] <janimo> is carsten working on it but takes time?
[10:50] <pitti> janimo: exactly
[10:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: I think I found the root cause of the logout/shutdown hang, will take this up with mvo
[10:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: update-notifier hogs the CPU again and thus does not want to shutdown properly
[10:52] <janimo> pitti, as for deferring the printer autoconfig is cups being followed up to the 1.2 release in dapper?
[10:52] <janimo> I read they plan to add something similar to hal+cups upstream, ie not redhat patch
[10:52] <pitti> janimo: we are past version freeze, but I'll watch the weekly snapshots
[10:52] <pitti> janimo: as long as they are safe, I'll update
[10:53] <janimo> do they have other lists besides cups-devel and general? those are pretty incactive besides some release notifications
[10:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: ah, ok.  Not a live cd thing, then
[10:54] <janimo> is there a common printing list where cups/gnome/kde are together?
[10:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: it probably just triggers the right actions on the right time, or sth like that :)
[10:58] <pitti> carlos: do you want source+binary or a binary-only build? the latter would be closer to a buildd output
[10:59] <carlos> pitti: then, the later
[10:59] <Riddell> janimo: in theory desktop-printing on OSDL would be it
[10:59] <janimo> Riddell, thanks
[10:59] <Riddell> lists.osdl.org
[10:59] <janimo> let's see if gmane has it
[11:01] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/pmount-build-distaddfile.tar.gz
[11:01] <janimo> not on gmane, upstream mail archive down
[11:02] <carlos> pitti: cool, thanks
[11:02] <dooglus> if I find a possible security problem with a ubuntu package, who should I tell?
[11:03] <pitti> dooglus: security@ubuntu.com
[11:03] <dooglus> thanks.
[11:03] <pitti> dooglus: or open a malone bug with 'keep private' enabled
[11:03] <pitti> dooglus: unless it's already publicly known
[11:03] <dooglus> I did that.  but who's going to see it, since it's private?
[11:03] <pitti> dooglus: I will :)
[11:03] <dooglus> ok
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: bah, current ppc/daily doesn't install due to kernel transition; I will try this tomorrow
[11:31] <Kamion> pitti: meh?
[11:31] <Kamion> is that the build I just did?
[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: yes
[11:32] <pitti> it could not install linux-image-powerpc
[11:32] <Kamion> the kernel transition is supposed to be done
[11:32] <Kamion> really linux-image-powerpc, or linux-powerpc?
[11:33] <Kamion> huh, the CD is still on -14
[11:33] <Kamion> what is going on
[11:36] <ogra> Kamion, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html says its trying -14 as well 
[11:37] <Kamion> yeah, just sort of figured it out
[11:37] <Kamion> it's breakage from the concurrent-install/live-CD-build work I did yesterday
[11:37] <Kamion> don't ask and I won't have to explain the sheer complexity of exactly why :-/
[11:40] <carlos> pitti: hmm, are the changes to support .desktop translation updates included with dapper?
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: yes, for quite a while already
[11:40] <carlos> oh!, didn't know that
[11:40] <carlos> pitti: which approach did you take?
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: for .directory as well :)
[11:40] <carlos> use gettext directly?
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: .server will follow shortly
[11:40] <carlos> cool
[11:41] <pitti> carlos: yes, that worked just fine; see the benchmarks on the spec page
[11:41] <carlos> cool
[11:41] <pitti> carlos: performance impact is below the measurement error range
[11:41] <carlos> so we are not caching anything
[11:41] <pitti> no, no need to
[11:41] <carlos> pitti: are you going to ask upstream to include it?
[11:42] <pitti> carlos: I should probably
[11:42] <carlos> pitti: please, add me to the CC of that email then
[11:42] <pitti> I will
[11:43] <Kamion> ah, I see the bug, fixing now
[11:44] <Kamion> pitti: thanks for the report
[11:44] <pitti> thanks, you rock :)
[11:44] <ogra> Kamion, can you wait a second with the edubuntu builds 
[11:44] <Kamion> although best not to assume that CD bugs are kernel transitions without checking with me first :)
[11:44] <Kamion> ogra: I was going to anyway, you can rebuild those yourself later if you like
[11:44] <ogra> i just removed schooltool temporary, waiting for the seeds to sync
[11:44] <Kamion> you will need to upload edubuntu-meta then too
[11:44] <ogra> ok, i need some guidance the first time 
[11:45] <ogra> yes, waiting for the change to show up in the seeds
[11:45] <Kamion> ogra: read and follow /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/secret/README
[11:45] <pitti> the amd64 CD seems ok, so I'm going to do amd64 live+install tests now
[11:45] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[11:45] <Kamion> pitti: all architectures have the same problem
[11:46] <Kamion> ogra: then read the "Day-to-day operation" section of /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/README
[11:46] <pitti> Kamion: oh? at least the 15 packages seem to be on the CD
[11:46] <ogra> hmm, little still asks me for a password
[11:46] <Kamion> ogra: summary: 'for-project edubuntu cron.daily' builds a normal Edubuntu install CD
[11:46] <Kamion> ogra: oh, you probably can't log in then
[11:46] <ogra> yes
[11:46] <Kamion> dapper-install-amd64.list:/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.15/linux-image-2.6.15-14-amd64-generic_2.6.15-14.19_amd64.deb
[11:46] <ogra> i thought elmo had added me 
[11:46] <Kamion> pitti: that's the only one on the current amd64 CD
[11:47] <ogra> elmo, ping ? 
[11:48] <pitti> Kamion: oops, right, the 15 packages are just the udebs
[11:48] <pitti> thanks for the warning
[11:48] <pitti> nevertheless, time for live cd testing
[11:48] <pitti> bbl
[11:54] <pitti_> Kamion: just trying 'check cd for defects' -> nice :)
[11:54] <ogra> hmm, looking at the seeds ...
[11:54] <ogra> wasnt gstreamer0.8 supposed to be gone ? 
[11:55] <pitti_> ogra: what's still left?
[11:55] <ogra> all
[11:56] <Kamion> I don't think anybody's ever edited the seeds for that
[11:56] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/seeds/dapper$ grep gstreamer0.8 *|wc -l
[11:56] <ogra> 33
[11:56] <Kamion> the current oversizedness might have something to do with that, I guess ;-)
[11:56] <ogra> no wonder my CD overflows 
[11:56] <ogra> hrm :(
[11:56] <pitti_> seb128: ok to kick gst 0.8 out of the seeds?
[11:57] <seb128> pitti_: it's on my list for this week, I just wanted to get serpentine using gst0.10 first
[11:57] <seb128> I can do that now if you want
[11:57] <pitti_> oh, not specifically for me
[11:57] <ogra> seb128, would save me a lot of headache with edubuntu 
[11:57] <pitti_> just about ogra's question aboce
[11:58] <ogra> the CD in constantly overflown
[11:58] <seb128> ogra: I'll drop serpentine from the desktop for now so :/
[11:58] <ogra> fine with me ... you know my opinion about serpentine :)
[11:58] <seb128> I'm still waiting for upstream for having a version using gst0.10
[11:58] <Kamion> (BTW, "is overflown" sounds weird in English, although it *might* be technically correct. I'd use "is overflowing" or "has overflowed" instead.)
[11:59] <seb128> ogra: we need to add it back then
[11:59] <ogra> seb128, i'll put a note on my desktop ...
[11:59] <Kamion> "flown" is the past participle of "fly", not "flow"
[11:59] <Kamion> wrong verb
[12:00] <Lathiat> so what, flowed?
[12:00] <Kamion> yes
[12:00] <Lathiat> hrm, point
[12:00] <Kamion> "in the past the river has flowed past this house"
[12:00] <Kamion> or some better example
[12:00] <pitti_> Kamion: is there a prefered action what to do after the cd consistency check? I just rebooted
[12:00] <Kamion> pitti_: there's a bug open saying it should prompt and then reboot
[12:00] <pitti_> ok, good
[12:00] <ogra> the river was flowing ? 
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti_: it should reboot after a keypress, but usplash doesn't support that yet.
[12:01] <pitti_> ogra: let's sing that on the next conference :)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti_: I need to write the code to support that.
[12:01] <ogra> or did it flee the house :P
[12:01] <pitti_> ok, just making sure that everthing is in malone
[12:01] <Kamion> ogra: again, wrong verb. The past participle of "flee" is "fled".
[12:01] <ogra> gah ...
[12:02] <ogra> i'll never get english grammar right :/
[12:02] <Kamion> fly -> flown, flow -> flowed, flee -> fled. consider this revenge for all the learning of German irregular verbs I had to do ;-)
[12:02] <ogra> hehe
[12:03] <ogra> but as Keybuk pointed out ... no matter how much you f*ck it up, people will still understand you which is not the case in german
[12:04] <pitti_live> seb128: ok, on amd64 live the firefox icon does not appear as well (desktop)
[12:04] <Kamion> well German has practically the same set of verbs there - fliegen -> geflogen, fliessen -> geflossen, fliehen -> geflohen
[12:04] <seb128> does it on an installation?
[12:05] <Kamion> although I had to look most of those up
[12:05] <Kamion> I guess the construction is a bit more regular
[12:05] <Kamion> anyway, back to work ...
[12:05] <pitti_live> seb128: no idea, my current install cds are broken, will try tomorrow
[12:05] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, F1 working now... ${MEDIA_TYPE} can be CD-ROM +... ?
[12:06] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, because of the gender of the word in the translation....
[12:06] <pitti_live> meh, wrong resolution on the live CD
[12:06] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: would it be possible to go back to asking about the screen resolution instead of just assuming 1024x768?
[12:06] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: afraid it's substituted in in a kind of nasty way at the moment - can be "CD-ROM", "netboot image", "bootable drive", "boot image", "floppy"
[12:06] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: breezy live/install just asked me (debconf)
[12:07] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: no.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: however, I'm going to fix ddcprobe to work on amd64.
[12:07] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: not sure how to deal with making that translatable
[12:07] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: even better :)
[12:07] <Kamion> pitti_: CDs fixed
[12:07] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: I have it working for the VBE stuff, but it segfaults in the DDC probe section
[12:07] <pitti_live> \o/
[12:07] <ogra> pitti_live, it should fall back to ask for weird rundetectable resolutions though
[12:08] <ogra> i.e. on my amd64 lappie it always asked, since the display doesnt throw out anything in ddcprobe ... or it falls back to 1024 ...
[12:09] <Kamion> sorting out ddcprobe should deal with most of that
[12:09] <Kamion> the new live CD will never ask for anything though, and has no infrastructure for asking anything any more
[12:10] <pitti_live> oh, and the language will certainly be transfered to the desktop environment, right?
[12:10] <ogra> how do you sort out ddcprobe if the display doesnt answer anything ... 
[12:10] <pitti_live> I chose 'German' at the gfxboot screen, but get English so far
[12:10] <pitti_live> Kamion: ^ how will ppc handle that?
[12:10] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: you should have a german locale?
[12:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: there's no infrastructure for asking about anything.
[12:11] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: no, I have en_US
[12:11] <pitti_live> .UTF-78
[12:11] <pitti_live> erm, -8
[12:11] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: weird.
[12:11] <ogra> then i'm doomed to 1024 on the liveCD with this machine i guess 
[12:11] <Kamion> pitti_live: for the moment we just have to make sure that it's easy to change the language/keymap after boot
[12:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: if your hardware is broken, you need to reconfigure X by hand, yes.
[12:11] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: let me try that again, I might not have set it back on my second boot
[12:11] <ogra> (which looks very odd on a 1280x800 display btw)
[12:11] <Kamion> since powerpc has no gfxboot-a-like at the moment
[12:12] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: you won't get the correct _keymap_, but language should be set.
[12:12] <pitti_live> yes, that's why I asked
[12:12] <Kamion> pitti_live: check /proc/cmdline after boot, too
[12:12] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: ok, I'll try it again right now
[12:12] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: what does /proc/cmdline look like?
[12:12] <Kamion> it should have debian-installer/locale=de_DE.UTF-8 or similar in it
[12:12] <pitti_live> BOOT_IMAGE=/install/vmlinuz boot=casper initrd=/install/initrd.gz ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram rw quiet splash --
[12:13] <Kamion> so either you didn't select it or gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is a bit b0ren
[12:13] <Kamion> b0rken
[12:13] <Mithrandir> doesn't look like you set in the bootloader, then.
[12:13] <pitti_live> I selected it, but that might have been at the time when I chose integrity check
[12:13] <pitti_live> it's probably that
[12:13] <pitti_live> bbl
[12:14] <pitti_> so, now I definitively selected it
[12:15] <Mithrandir> and it's not on /proc/cmdline?
[12:16] <pitti_> still booting...
[12:18] <pitti_> Mithrandir: ok, it's there now, and I have de_AT.UTF-8
[12:18] <Mithrandir> pitti_: woo
[12:18] <pitti_> Mithrandir: ok, sorry for the noise then
[12:19] <Mithrandir> pitti_: np
[12:19] <pitti_> Mithrandir: any plans to include country selection? I don't mind being regarded as an Austrian, but some Taiwanese/Chinese folks might care :/
[12:19] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: heh
[12:20] <Kamion> pitti_: no, but note that gfxboot-theme-ubuntu lists Taiwanese and Chinese separately
[12:20] <Kamion> also Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese
[12:20] <Kamion> I believe those are the only two cases where it makes a really big difference
[12:20] <Kamion> well, for Taiwanese and Chinese read Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese, but whatever
[12:21] <pitti_> Kamion: true, that's a nice solution
[12:21] <Kamion> Austrian is not the best default for de though
[12:21] <doko_> Kamion: we once even had Luxemburg
[12:21] <pitti_> Kamion: I remember talking with Tollef about that, I think right now it just picks the first one it can find
[12:22] <Kamion> maybe I could scrape a better list of defaults out of localechooser though
[12:22] <Mithrandir> pitti_: it does.
[12:22] <Kamion> yeah, I guess it's easier for me to do that in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[12:22] <pitti_> Kamion: we can also just reorder /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
[12:22] <Kamion> nah, would rather figure out the installer's defaults
[12:23] <Kamion> somebody please file a bug for me on gfxboot-theme-ubuntu and I'll get to it
[12:23] <pitti_> I will
[12:23] <Kamion> thanks
[12:23] <pitti_> although it doesn't really matter much for de in particluar
[12:24] <Kamion> makes more difference for fr I guess, fr_CA < fr_FR
[12:24] <Kamion> or en_GB < en_US for that matter
[12:25] <Kamion> (though we never pass debian-installer/locale=en so don't hit that particular case)
[12:32] <pitti> ok, filed
[12:33] <jdub> fabbione: ping
[12:33] <fabbione> jdub: pong
[12:36] <rod_> could someone please host xgl-svn_100.tar.bz2  ?
[12:36] <Treenaks> rod_: uh.. just wait for it :)
[12:38] <rod_> thnx Treenaks, I'm waiting
[12:41] <rod_> Treenaks, ?
[12:41] <Treenaks> rod_: hm?
[12:41] <rod_> Are you prividing a link or...?
[01:10] <Diziet> Bah, my ff from yesterday didn't build.  I'm sure I tested it.
[01:18] <ogra> mvo, gksudo says "Bitts das passwort eingeben" ...
[01:25] <Mithrandir> uh, there's something _funky_ in the current live cd.
[01:25] <Mithrandir> "can't open perl script "-e": No such device or address"
[01:29] <Mithrandir> uhm
[01:29] <mvo> ogra: anything wrong with that?
[01:29] <Mithrandir> my /dev/null is c 0,259
[01:29] <mvo> ogra: apart from the fact that it should be uppercase
[01:30] <ogra> mvo, last time i wrote Bitte it had an e in the end ;)
[01:31] <mvo> ogra: new spelling *cough*
[01:32] <mvo> ogra: fix it yourself in rosetta ;)
[01:32] <ogra> heh
[01:34] <Rod_> Can someone provide me a working link for http://freedesktop.org/%7edavidr/xgl-svn_100.tar.bz2 , please?
[01:34] <mjg59> Rod_: Here? Probably not
[01:35] <ogra> Rod_, see topic, this is not a support channel
[01:35] <mdz> dholbach: new HelpingWithBugs/* looks much better, thanks
[01:35] <Rod_> mjg59, not sure where else to go
[01:35] <ogra> try #ubuntu
[01:35] <mjg59> Rod_: And it's all been put in CVS, anyway
[01:35] <mjg59> Rod_: #freedesktop or #xorg are better bets
[01:35] <dholbach> mdz: super
[01:35] <Rod_> ohh okay, thanks mjg59  will try there
[01:37] <Lathiat> Preconfiguring packages ...
[01:37] <Lathiat> /tmp/x11-common.config.25151: line 28: laptop-detect: command not found
[01:37] <Lathiat> does x11-common need to pre-depend on laptop-detect?
[01:37] <Lathiat> i think that exists
[01:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: 259?
[01:46] <Mithrandir> yes, a "slightly odd" number, I agree
[01:47] <mdz> I thought minors were 8 bits
[01:49] <Mithrandir> 259 is 1 << 4 + 3, so it should correspond to 1,3
[01:50] <Mithrandir> if I run makedev again, it works
[01:53] <mdz> very strange
[01:54] <mdz> Lathiat: pre-depends aren't fulfilled for .config
[01:54] <mdz> laptop-detect is pre-installed by the installer, though, so unless you remove it explicitly, it's OK
[01:55] <Lathiat> mdz: thats with pbuilder
[01:56] <Lathiat> mdz: if it doesnt affect the isntaller then i guess its ok
[01:56] <Lathiat> just thought i'd mention it
[01:56] <mdz> it's harmless in any case
[01:57] <StevenK> 1 << 4 + 3 != 259
[01:58] <mdz> StevenK: 1 << 8 + 3, he meant
[01:58] <StevenK> Ah
[01:59] <Mithrandir> well, yes.
[01:59] <Mithrandir> I suck at maths
[01:59] <Mithrandir> or something. :-)
[02:00] <ogra_live> Mithrandir: no network interfaces on the livecd ?
[02:00] <ogra_live> and /sbin not in path ...
[02:00] <Kamion> Lathiat: indeed, doesn't affect the installer, and is harmless as mdz says
[02:01] <Mithrandir> ogra_live: you have an outdated live cd
[02:01] <Kamion> next time I'm bored (haha) I'll make it check for the presence of laptop-detect before trying to run it
[02:01] <ogra_live> Mithrandir: oh, then edubuntu wasnt built ? i just rsznced 10 min ago from the 20060209
[02:01] <Kamion> ogra_live: check the logs
[02:02] <Kamion> http://terranova.buildd/~buildd/LiveCD/dapper/edubuntu/latest/ from chinstrap
[02:03] <Mithrandir> ogra_live: what arch?
[02:03] <ogra_ibook> i386
[02:04] <Mithrandir> ogra_live: it seems to have built.  What's the version of casper in the live image?
[02:04] <ogra_live> 1.28 it seems
[02:05] <Mithrandir> that's old
[02:05] <ogra_live> hmm, k
[02:05] <ogra_live> so it needs a new livefs build i guess 
[02:05] <ogra_live> it boots and works fine though :)
[02:06] <Mithrandir> Get:961 http://ftpmaster.internal dapper/main espresso-casper 1.29 [10.3kB] 
[02:06] <Mithrandir> that's from the latest
[02:06] <Mithrandir> so something went wrong in the live image build.
[02:06] <ogra_live> ah
[02:08] <ogra_live> hmm, it also has the -15 kernel and wasnt oversized, strange 
[02:12] <Kamion> ok, for your comfort and convenience, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/
[02:12] <ogra> ah, thanks ...
[02:12] <zakame> ooh!
[02:12] <Kamion> I may fiddle with the directory structure there at some point
[02:12] <ogra> lynx is nice but a bit hard to use :)
[02:13] <Kamion> no this is not livefs build logs, you still need to go to chinstrap for those
[02:13] <Kamion> this is ISO image build logs which you've previously needed a login to little to see
[02:14] <Kamion> intention being that people other than me can figure out what might have gone wrong with CD builds
[02:14] <ogra> ah
[02:16] <Kamion> mind you it might not be *too* hard to figure out how to publish the livefs logs too
[02:17] <Kamion> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.12/modules.dep: No such file or directory
[02:17] <Kamion> infinity: any idea what that's doing in current dapper livefs build logs?
[02:18] <ogra> Get:975 http://ftpmaster.internal dapper/main casper 1.29 [22.9kB] 
[02:18] <ogra> hmm
[02:18] <Mithrandir> something using uname -r ?
[02:18] <Kamion> could be
[02:18] <ogra> seems to be there as well 
[02:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: the md5sums of i386.squashfs on little and terranova are different, so I presume they're different images
[02:19] <ogra> strange ...
[02:20] <ogra> seems the livefs was built fine though ... could that be a race ? 
[02:23] <Mithrandir> can somebody else please try to boot the current live cd with break=mount ; when you get a prompt do find_cd ; setup_cow unionfs $(get_backing_device /cdrom/casper/filesystem.squashfs) /root ; ls -l /root/dev/null /rofs/dev/null ; ?
[02:23] <Seveas> random thought: if espresso is going to be ported to kde/kubuntu, should't the KDE version be called kappucino?
[02:23] <Riddell> :)
[02:24] <Riddell> no way
[02:24] <jdub> Seveas: you're not drilling deep enough into your head, maybe get a bigger drill bit.
[02:24] <Seveas> jdub, hehe, ok how about: why reboot after the single stage install? Won't some mounting tricks+chroot work too? :)
[02:25] <jdub> Seveas: -> Kamion 
[02:25] <sivang> Diziet: should I install autodebtest or autopkgtest ?
[02:26] <jdub> (who thinks that rebooting is an important test of installation success, and rightly so)
[02:26] <Seveas> jdub, it was just a random thought from the dark areas of my brain :)
[02:26] <Treenaks> Seveas: Lelystad must be crack heaven
[02:27] <Seveas> Treenaks :)
[02:28] <dholbach> Kamion: woohoo - gparted upstream says "actually i should take a couple of days and try to get this in HEAD" about the installer patch! :-)
[02:29] <dholbach> Kamion: ... which will getting gparted 0.2 into Ubuntu easier (it has a bunch of other changes we'd really want)
[02:29] <Kamion> sivang: autodebtest is obsoleted by autopkgtest
[02:29] <Kamion> dholbach: woo, thans
[02:29] <Kamion> thanks, even
[02:30] <dholbach> Kamion: I didn't reach danielk for the mount point magic yet.
[02:30] <ogra> Kamion, Mithrandir, so any hint why it didnt pick the right livefs to build the image ? 
[02:31] <Kamion> for your further comfort and convenience, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/
[02:31] <sivang> Kamion: k, thanks
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion, wow, cool :)
[02:32] <Kamion> note that files never get deleted there, and current and latest aren't symlinks, which might make their contents a bit odd sometimes
[02:32] <Kamion> ogra: not offhand, but you now have all the information easily available ;-)
[02:33] <pitti> Diziet: firefox is ftbfs, if you upload a new version, may I humbly remind you about the CVEs?
[02:36] <Lathiat> anyone got a source for debain changelogs?
[02:36] <Kamion> ogra: today's edubuntu live CD built five hours or so before the most current edubuntu live filesystem, that's all
[02:37] <Kamion> want a fresh build?
[02:37] <ogra> yup please ...
[02:37] <Kamion> on its way
[02:37] <ogra> since i dont know if or when elmo will show up for my little access
[02:37] <ogra> thanks :)
[02:38] <Kamion> ogra: you're in the cdimage group already ... looks like an oversight I guess
[02:38] <ogra> yup
[02:39] <ogra> (i wouldnt guess it was intentional ;) )+
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: wrt sound on ppc, I played with the alsamixer levels like mad, and suddenly it worked
[02:48] <ogra> pitti, i spent hours on my alsamixer already ...
[02:48] <pitti> I only needed 2 minutes
[02:48] <ogra> i fear having broken it ... but slomo has the same prob
[02:48] <pitti> everything appeared to be right by default
[02:48] <pitti> I just reinstalled from scratch, and after playing with alsamixer it worked
[02:48] <pitti> I wasn't able toget it workin with the gnome mixer
[02:48] <pitti> something in alsa-utils seems broken
[02:48] <ogra> can you run: amixer > amixer.out and post that anywhere ? 
[02:49] <pitti> right, I should have done that from the beginning for diffing
[02:50] <ogra> since you have it working, we have a reference :)
[02:50] <Kamion> ogra: new edubuntu live published
[02:50] <ogra> Kamion, ta
[02:50] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/amixer.out
[02:50] <pitti> ogra: ^
[02:51] <ogra> thanks
[02:53] <ogra> YAY !!
[02:53] <ogra> amixer sset 'PC Speaker' off
[02:53] <ogra> that did it :)
[02:54] <pitti> odd
[02:55] <pitti> ogra: I can enable PC speaker, and it still works
[02:55] <ogra> it was the only difference ... apart from volume settings ...
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: I'll check that on the next boot
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: we can disable it by default if it helps
[02:56] <ogra> whoo, shocking, m xchat beeps again ....
[03:00] <ogra> argh ... ppc live is 714MB ? 
[03:00] <ogra> (edubuntu) 
[03:01] <jsgotangco> doh
[03:01] <ogra> the former was only 701 ... what the hell was added there to make it this big ? 
[03:02] <delire> now we're getting somewhere. very nice mockups and right inline with the Ubuntu bare desktop approach: http://desplesdadotcom.nfshost.com/?p=75
[03:02] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:02] <jsgotangco> delire, that's a -desktop/-artwork thing
[03:02] <ogra> *shudder* blue 
[03:03] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:03] <ogra> but the name somehow implies that :)
[03:05] <delire> jsgotangco: agreed..
[03:06] <delire> that said a few new useability innovations are introduced.
[03:09] <seb128> doko: why is PROMPT_COMMAND commented by default now?
[03:10] <doko> seb128: it's in .bashrc, having it in /etc/bashrc forces it unconditionally
[03:11] <pitti> what's bad about having it by default?
[03:11] <seb128> so it works only for people who don't have their .bashrc for ages, ie: new install
[03:11] <tepsipakki> omg, gnucash-1.9.0 released
[03:11] <seb128> GTK2?
[03:11] <tepsipakki> yes
[03:11] <seb128> ah, nice
[03:11] <doko> seb128: do we care?
[03:11] <ogra> yay
[03:12] <seb128> doko: without it, no path as window title for g-t
[03:12] <seb128> doko: that sucks to have 15 command line open with the same title
[03:12] <doko> seb128: sure, but you cannot have both
[03:12] <seb128> both what?
[03:12] <seb128> I would just like to have that feature working out of the box
[03:12] <pitti> (like it was in hoary)
[03:13] <seb128> I had to edit my .bashrc to get it working
[03:13] <seb128> and I'm pretty sure 90% of the users will not figure that they need to do that
[03:14] <doko> seb128: it _is_ working out of the box, upgrades are not "out of the box"
[03:14] <ogra> we could put a message in the terminal that shows up until you edited .bashrc :P
[03:14] <seb128> doko: so you break upgrades, which is not nice
[03:14] <seb128> it was working for me
[03:15] <seb128> and it doesn't after upgrading
[03:15] <seb128> that's a regression
[03:15] <doko> is .bashrc sources in your .bash_profile?
[03:17] <torkel> seb128: it is commented in breezy too
[03:17] <seb128> doko: yep
[03:17] <seb128> doko: but .bashrc is a custom stuff I've for ages now
[03:17] <seb128> and it had no PROMPT_COMMAND
[03:18] <doko> seb128: it does. watch /etc/skel/.bashrc
[03:19] <seb128> doko: my .bashrc comes from my previous Debian installation probably
[03:19] <seb128> not from the skel
[03:19] <doko> so you're not the typical user to call it a regression ;-P
[03:19] <seb128> I didn't say I'm the typical user
[03:20] <seb128> but some people around have a custom .bashrc probably
[03:20] <seb128> anyway, no big deal, let's wait for the next bug about that
[03:20] <seb128> I played with that because we got a bug on g-t
[03:21] <doko> seb128: the reason to have it uncommented is to be able to set the title from an xterm invocation to something completely different
[03:21] <seb128> doko: the user config take over the default one no?
[03:21] <Lathiat> seb128: xterm -t "x" is just overwritten when bash sets it
[03:22] <seb128> if you have something to /etc and user customize it again with his .bashrc the second version is used no?
[03:22] <Lathiat> err not -t
[03:22] <Lathiat> somethign else, that sets the title string, i forget what it is :)
[03:22] <Lathiat> -title <string> :)
[03:23] <Kamion> seb128: both are run; the user's .bashrc would have to explicitly unset PROMPT_COMMAND
[03:23] <doko> seb128: yes, but a user can overwrite it in his own .bashrc
[03:23] <seb128> Kamion: right, it makes it possible for an user to do so
[03:23] <freeflying> doko: hi
[03:23] <seb128> I don't get the issue with having it by default to /etc/bashrc
[03:24] <seb128> it's working for everybody so
[03:24] <freeflying> doko: we still can not type ,paste ,or open chinese file 
[03:24] <seb128> and users are free to change it or unset it
[03:24] <doko> freeflying: sure, nothing did change
[03:24] <doko> seb128: please show a way to have it uncommented in /etc/bashrc and xterm -t still working
[03:25] <seb128> doko: dunno about xterm, but the default command line is g-t no?
[03:26] <seb128> we break the default component to support an another one ...
[03:26] <doko> seb128: please show a way to have it uncommented in /etc/bashrc and g-t -t still working ;-P
[03:26] <seb128> what does -t do?
[03:27] <azeem> Set the terminal's title to TITLE.
[03:27] <Lathiat> tektronix mode
[03:27] <Lathiat> -title sets the title
[03:27] <seb128> yeah, I've figured
[03:27] <seb128> doko: ok, you just break the standard feature to allow other usecase
[03:28] <seb128> fine with me, but I would prefer having the default installation working correctly :)
[03:28] <doko> seb128: no, I just break seb128's historic .bashrc
[03:28] <seb128> no points to argue for hours about that
[03:28] <seb128> doko: and some users' too, I started looking on that because we got a bug about it
[03:33] <doko> seb128: it's a feature, not a bug. it's not broken for new users. If we have the choice to enable something which didn't work before, we should do that. you can argue about enabling bash_completion in the same way (enabling it in .bashrc, not /etc/bashrc)
[03:33] <seb128> doko: yeah, gotcha, makes sense :)
[03:49] <Chipzz> doko: did you have time to take a look at my patch? ;)
[03:49] <doko> Chipzz: the rlimit stuff?
[03:49] <Chipzz> doko: the scp bash_completion thingie ;)
[03:50] <doko> Chipzz: ahh. no, we'll have a bash_completion update later, just forwarded it upstream
[03:50] <Chipzz> doko: I allready sent it upstream ;)
[03:51] <Chipzz> doko: no reaction yet though :/
[03:51] <doko> Chipzz: to Ian?
[03:51] <tepsipakki> kamion: umm, the daily netboot-images are still at 2.6.15-13, for a reason?-)
[03:51] <Chipzz> doko: jups
[03:51] <Kamion> tepsipakki: dailies haven't been built since we switched to soyuz. use installer-*
[03:52] <tepsipakki> ah, ok
[03:52] <Kamion> tepsipakki: in general you should always use whichever of installer-* and daily-installer-* is newer
[03:52] <Kamion> that's what the CD image build process does
[03:52] <Chipzz> doko: btw, sorry to bother you with this kind of question, but do you know when ! should be quoted in "" in bash?
[03:52] <Chipzz> I read the manpage but couldn't quite make sense of it
[03:52] <tepsipakki> kamion: yeah, sure. haven't been installing for awhile, so didn't spot this earlier
[03:53] <Kamion> Chipzz: always, unless you want it to perform history expansion
[03:53] <Kamion> Chipzz: although make sure you know the difference between ' and "
[03:53] <Kamion> ' is perfectly fine to quote "; I generally only use " when I actually want variable expansion within the quotes
[03:54] <Kamion> er: ' is perfectly fine to quote !, I mean
[03:54] <Chipzz> Kamion: the thing is, can't use '', since I have to have ' inside ''
[03:54] <Kamion> '\''
[03:55] <Chipzz> chipzz@Vector:~$ echo '\''
[03:55] <Chipzz> >
[03:55] <Chipzz> doesn't work
[03:55] <Kamion> 'foo! bar! foo'\''s bar!' => foo! bar! foo's bar!
[03:55] <Kamion> Chipzz: does if you're actually inside ''
[03:55] <Kamion> close quotes, single backslash-escaped ', reopen quotes
[03:55] <Chipzz> nasty :)
[03:56] <Kamion> but sure you can use "..." if that's more convenient due to needing to have ' in the quoted text, just make sure you know the effects
[03:57] <Chipzz> If enabled, history expansion will be performed  unless  an  ! appearing in double quotes is escaped using a backslash.  The backslash preceding the !  is not removed.
[03:57] <Chipzz> ??
[03:58] <Chipzz> The  backslash  retains  its special meaning only when followed by one of the following characters: $, `, ", \, or <newline>.
[04:00] <Kamion> ah yes
[04:00] <Kamion> $ set -H; echo "!"
[04:00] <Kamion> -bash: !: event not found
[04:01] <Kamion> use '' to quote !
[04:01] <luloy> or \!
[04:01] <Kamion> I forgot because I always run with set +H
[04:01] <Kamion> hate historical history expansion
[04:02] <pitti> yay, CD burning with n-c-b works again
[04:04] <pitti> hm, write error *damn*
[04:05] <Chipzz> Kamion: you see where my confusion comes from? :)
[04:05] <Kamion> Chipzz: yeah
[04:05] <ogra> pitti, i get that if its mounted before writing ...
[04:05] <pitti> right
[04:06] <pitti> I fixed the capacity reading so far
[04:06] <ogra> (which always happens if i use a RW)
[04:06] <pitti> now I got a little further
[04:06] <Chipzz> chipzz@Vector:~$ set +H
[04:06] <Chipzz> chipzz@Vector:~$ echo "\!"
[04:06] <Chipzz> \!
[04:06] <Chipzz> chipzz@Vector:~$ set -H
[04:06] <Chipzz> chipzz@Vector:~$ echo "\!"
[04:06] <Chipzz> \!
[04:06] <Chipzz> grmbl
[04:06] <Chipzz> nasty :/
[04:07] <Chipzz> :(
[04:07] <pitti> ogra: oh, I had gnome-mount installed, you too?
[04:07] <ogra> nope
[04:07] <pitti> ogra: it's just a local package on my disc which I never uploaded
[04:07] <Kamion> Chipzz: just use ' and you'll be fine
[04:07] <ogra> i wont touch such evil stuff :)
[04:07] <pitti> ogra: odd
[04:08] <Kamion> alternatively, "foo"\!"bar" as luloy suggests
[04:08] <ogra> pitti, i just noted i only have two speeds in n-c-b for my dvd writer ...
[04:08] <pitti> ogra: are you sure that it didn't complain about an insufficient capacity?
[04:09] <ogra> cat write below 15X
[04:09] <ogra> yup
[04:09] <luloy> echo \!
[04:09] <luloy> aha
[04:09] <seb128> ogra: lshal | grep write_speeds
[04:09] <ogra> i already burned and tested a x86 liveCD today ...
[04:09] <seb128> ogra: lshal | grep write_speeds | grep cdrom
[04:10] <ogra> seb128, no output
[04:10] <ogra> ah, write_speed works
[04:10] <seb128> is hal bog
[04:11] <seb128> what do you get?
[04:11] <ogra> but hal only has two speeds 
[04:11] <seb128> that's why n-c-b has two
[04:11] <ogra> so n-c-b is right
[04:11] <seb128> is hal bog
[04:11] <ogra> yup
[04:13] <pitti> seb128: lol, no matches for volume.disc.capacity in the hal source code :/
[04:22] <seb128> pitti: what did change between .6 and .7?
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: hal 0.5.7 you mean? I think .7 will have volume.disc.capacity
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: but it's not yet released
[04:29] <seb128> pitti: have you read the upstream bug I pointed?
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: I just replied to the upstream bug, btw (gnome bug 328494 )
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: oh, I didn't see your pointer, I just found it myself
[04:30] <seb128> k
[04:30] <pitti> Ubugtu: *poke*
[04:30] <seb128> "With HAL 0.5.7 we will get the size from HAL so it won't matter that it is
[04:30] <seb128> busy."
[04:30] <pitti> seb128: that's the O_EXCL thing, I fixed that already
[04:30] <seb128> cool
[04:30] <pitti> but that bloody thing doesn't unmount the CD
[04:31] <seb128> good luck with that :)
[04:31] <pitti> what's wrong with ubugtu?
[04:31] <pitti> gnome bug 328494
[04:31] <Treenaks> *cough*Seveas*cough*
[04:32] <pitti> gnome bug 328494
[04:32] <pitti> interesting
[04:32] <pitti> replies to that go to #ubuntu-desktop
[04:32] <Seveas> @quit
[04:33] <Seveas> INFO 2006-02-09T16:32:12 Bugtracker.bugSnarfer called by
[04:33] <Seveas>      pitti!n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti.
[04:33] <Seveas> I think the zilla was just slow :)
[04:33] <ogra> or the pitti was to fast :)
[04:33] <pitti> Seveas: but why do replies go to #u-desktop?
[04:33] <pitti> Seveas: and it tried to get the malone bug
[04:33] <Seveas> they don't....
[04:34] <pitti> they did for me
[04:34] <pitti> gnome bug 328494
[04:34] <pitti> Seveas: look in #u-desktop
[04:34] <pitti> still happening
[04:34] <Seveas> nothing...
[04:34] <pitti> -Ubugtu- Error: Error getting Malone bug #328494: Bug does not exist
[04:34] <Seveas> that's a notice :)
[04:34] <Seveas> notices only get send to the user that caused them
[04:34] <pitti> ah, I see
[04:35] <pitti> xchat bug, then
[04:35] <Seveas> if it shows up in #u-d, slap your irc client
[04:35] <Seveas> but it should not try to get the malone bug
[04:35] <seb128> pitti: should I drop gstreamer0.8 from supported too?
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: I guess it's a "yes" but just to be sure :)
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: yes, please
[04:36] <seb128> thank you
[04:36] <ogra> heh
[04:36] <dholbach> ogra: I even advertised it in the Dapper Flight 4 release notes. :-)
[04:37] <ogra> :)
[04:37] <ogra> where are these ? JaneW wanted to copy them for edubuntu flight 4
[04:37] <seb128> pitti: no need to list the stuff which are Depends of apps like plugins-good, right?
[04:37] <pitti> seb128: no, that would be actively bad
[04:38] <pitti> seb128: ideally it shouldn't appear at all
[04:38] <dholbach> ogra: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight4
[04:38] <ogra> JaneW, ^^^ 
[04:38] <pitti> seb128: but I guess there might be some tools which aren't dependency, but which we ant
[04:38] <dholbach> ogra: that's not really unexpected URL, is it? :)
[04:38] <pitti> s/ant$/want/
[04:38] <seb128> pitti: desktop: gstreamer0.10-alsa gstreamer0.10-esd gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-apps, supported: gstreamer0.10-doc gstreamer0.10-plugins-good-doc
[04:39] <ogra> dholbach, nope, not really ... but i'm busy with CD stuff ... no time to look up wiki stuff
[04:39] <JaneW> ogra: reference not copy ;)
[04:39] <dholbach> ogra: I'm busy too. :)
[04:39] <ogra> JaneW, right 
[04:39] <pitti> seb128: g-control-center already needs -alsa
[04:39] <JaneW> ogra: may turn out to be the same thing tho...
[04:39] <ogra> dholbach, hey, you have time for running bugdays :P
[04:39] <ogra> yup
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: totem, too
[04:40] <hno73> Who do I complain to when kubuntu takes over my gnome desktop? Riddell :)  After the latest update and reboot, both start at once :-(
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: the rest looks fine
[04:40] <seb128> pitti: g-c-c Suggest it, totem has alsa | audiosink
[04:40] <ogra> hno73, there are plenty complaints in -users already
[04:40] <ogra> its also the other way around 
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: that's why I wouldn't explicitly put it into desktop
[04:40] <hno73> ogra: ok, that's fine then :)
[04:40] <ogra> heh
[04:40] <hno73> I'll just wait and update in a while
[04:41] <seb128> pitti: but we want it installed by default, no?
[04:41] <pitti> seb128: we will anyway
[04:41] <seb128> pitti: so it should be listed by desktop
[04:41] <pitti> seb128: as I said, lots of packages depend on it
[04:41] <seb128> pitti: there is an issue, -good Provides -audiosink
[04:41] <seb128> and packages do Depends on alsa | audiosink
[04:41] <hno73> In the meantime I have to report on some more serious breakage in at-spi (in malone)
[04:42] <seb128> pitti: so if -good if installed, alsa will not be
[04:42] <pitti> seb128: well, ok, just add it then
[04:42] <pitti> doesn't matter much anyway
[04:42] <seb128> pitti: I'll work with the Debian maintainer to fix that but I add it for now
[04:42] <seb128> we can still fix it later
[04:42] <pitti> seb128: please also merge your changes to {k,edu,server}buntu
[04:42] <dholbach> hno73: breakage? at-spi?
[04:43] <seb128> pitti: I've to learn to do that :)
 gnome bug 328494
[04:43] <Ubugtu> gnome bug 328494 in cd-burner "Burning of CD-RWs stopped working" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=328494
[04:43] <hno73> dholbach: yes, it completely breaks my X
[04:43] <dholbach> hno73: oh?
[04:44] <hno73> after installing at-spi and restarting X it won't start, cycles through the startup process 6 times and gives up
[04:44] <dholbach> hno73: Ugh!
[04:44] <hno73> I'm using the nvidia drivers, perhaps I should try without
[04:44] <hno73> so I can't test gok or gnopernicus
[04:45] <dholbach> Yeah maybe that makes it better.
[04:45] <hno73> OK, I'll try that to start with
[04:46] <hno73> I'm assuming I can just unistall the nvidia driver and it will fall back to nv?
[04:46] <ogra> you need to revert your xorg.conf manually
[04:47] <hno73> ah, lovely :)
[04:47] <freeflying> pitti: hi
[04:48] <freeflying> pitti: We want modify ttf-arphic-uming for displayy chinese better , is that ok ?
[04:48] <freeflying> s/displayy/display
[04:48] <pitti> freeflying: sure, go ahead :)
[04:49] <freeflying> pitti: we prepare put the configure file into /etc/fonts/conf.d/
[04:49] <Riddell> hno73: what happens?
[04:50] <ogra> Riddell, kicker starts on gnome desktops
[04:50] <ogra> and gnome panel on kde desktops ...
[04:50] <ogra> according to ubuntu-users
[04:50] <Riddell> cool :)
[04:51] <ogra> heh
[04:51] <Riddell> but should be fixed in the updates I uploaded this morning
[04:51] <hno73> classic cross-marketing ploy ;)
[04:52] <jsgotangco> hiya hno73 
[04:52] <hno73> jsgotangco: hi
[04:53] <ogra> Riddell, hno73, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-February/066772.html
[04:54] <jsgotangco> best bug ever
[04:55] <ogra> "...is Canonical going for something new and exciting?" 
[04:55] <dholbach> something new and exciting! :)
[04:55] <ogra> hehe
[04:55] <Riddell> I'll reply to him
[04:55] <Tm_T> =)
[04:55] <jsgotangco> yeah reinvent bluecurve will ya
[04:55] <Tm_T> Riddell: indeed lovely bug =)
[04:55] <ogra> jsgotangco, but without the theme :)
[04:56] <jsgotangco> oh its getting fixed? and i was really enjoying the moment that kicker konquered the desktop
[04:57] <ogra> oh, another dholbach ad in -motu :)
[04:57] <dholbach> ogra: you have too much time to read the mailing lists, if you ask me
[04:58] <ogra> dholbach, prolly ...
[04:58] <ogra> but in the end i have just a working mail notification that notifies me about mail from important people ;)
[04:58] <dholbach> ogra: I was just referring to your lack of time :)
[05:03] <seb128> Riddell: no objection if I drop the gst0.8 stuff you commented from kubuntu seed?
[05:04] <seb128> Riddell: I just dropped them for ubuntu and since you already commented them for kubuntu
[05:04] <blueyed> Since yesterday I cannot start wine on dapper. It just says "killed". Should I open a bug on malone (with strace output) or is it supposed to be fixed with new package uploads anyway?
[05:05] <dholbach> blueyed: you might want to ask \sh_away
[05:05] <dholbach> blueyed: which version is it?
[05:05] <blueyed> dholbach: both with 0.9.5 from dapper and 0.9.7 from sf.net
[05:06] <dholbach> blueyed: hm, you might have more luck with an upstream bug report then.
[05:06] <blueyed> dholbach: hmm, but it worked yesterday. Must have been some dapper update.
[05:06] <Riddell> seb128: go ahead
[05:07] <seb128> Riddell: do you want the gst0.10 listed but commented?
[05:07] <Riddell> seb128: yeah, please
[05:07] <seb128> k, doing that now
[05:07] <dholbach> blueyed: Sorry, I have no idea, what could have broken it - in any case: file a bug report.
[05:08] <Diziet> sivang: You should install autopkgtest; it has a higher version number.  Just as soon as it's through NEW in both places I'll ask for autodebtest to be removed.
[05:08] <blueyed> dholbach: Ok. Thanks. Should I ask sh also to add 0.9.7 instead of 0.9.5, because of at least one ugly bug where icons do not show up? File a malone report for that, too?
[05:08] <dholbach> blueyed: That has a different process - we're in UpstreamVersionFreeze at the moment.
[05:09] <dholbach> blueyed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000177.html has more information on it.
[05:09] <MisterN> hi
[05:09] <WaterSevenUb> kamion,in which inbox do u want to receive a fresh .po ?:)
[05:10] <mvo> Riddell: did kuser recently traveld from main to universe?
[05:13] <Riddell> mvo: yes
[05:13] <Riddell> it's old and not really maintained
[05:14] <Riddell> and we use guidance now
[05:14] <mvo> Riddell: it's fine, just confirming 
[05:15] <blueyed> dholbach: is \sh the maintainer of the wine package? Should I ask him to send you the required info for the UVF exception?
[05:15] <gicmo> hey hey
[05:16] <dholbach> blueyed: he more or less took care of it, yes.
[05:16] <dholbach> blueyed: shouldn't hurt to talk to him. :-)
[05:16] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, the debian-installer one.
[05:17] <gicmo> Kamion, there .. I have been told you are the guy to talk to about (I c&p)  so the problem we have is that we want to ship a ubuntu cd with notebooks and we also want to ship an additional cd with e.g. speical drivers or software that should get additionly installed
[05:18] <sivang> yo gicmo :)
[05:18] <gicmo> hey hey sivang 
[05:18] <gicmo> sivang, how is it going?
[05:25] <seb128> k, seeds updated for gstreamer0.10
[05:25] <seb128> pitti: thanks for the help on that :)
[05:25] <pitti> seb128: you're welcome
[05:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, ping
[05:30] <ogra> Mithrandir, amd64 live has a broken xserver for me ... fails with "sh: getconfig: command not found"
[05:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: the live cd is broken, I said a few hours ago.
[05:32] <ogra> ah, dmaned, missed that
[05:32] <ogra> *damned even
[05:33] <ogra> all arches ? or doesn it make sense to test the others ? 
[05:33] <ogra> *does
[05:33] <sivang> gicmo: fine, fine, busy , what about you?
[05:33] <Mithrandir> squashfs is broken, so unless you're _really_ bored it doesn't make any sense to test them.
[05:34] <Mithrandir> your /dev/null is broken in static /dev in the squashfs which makes the xserver-xorg configure script exceedingly unhappy
[05:35] <ogra> ok
[05:43] <mvo> ping Diziet
[05:45] <mvo> infinity: I got a conffile prompt for /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf today during test breezy->dapper upgrade. is this a known issue?
[05:45] <mvo> Diziet: firefox asks me conffile questions during breezy->dapper upgrade for /etc/firefox/firefoxrc (and a bunch of others)
[05:45] <seb128> mvo: did you had the details area open?
[05:46] <seb128> mvo: I got my conffile double prompt issue on that conffile :p
[05:46] <mvo> seb128: no, that was with the dist-upgrade tool
[05:46] <seb128> ah ok
[05:48] <mvo> pitti: tetex-bin has a failed postinst. didn't we looked into that in london?
[05:48] <pitti> mvo: still? darn
[05:49] <mvo> pitti: I have a change from 24.1, other than that there seems to be no new version in dapper
[05:50] <pitti> mvo: I didn't change tetex-bin, just xmltex
[05:50] <mvo> pitti: oh, ok. checking the error now 
[05:51] <pitti> which was the culprit IIRC
[05:53] <mvo> pitti: hm, xmltex is not installed and wasn't installed during the upgrade
[05:54] <pitti> any recipe for reproducing?
[05:54] <mvo> dist-ugprade from breezy to dapper ;) 
[05:54] <pitti> mvo: I can take a look at it later/tomorow, but I'd like to finish repairing n-cd-burner
[05:54] <mvo> no, not yet
[05:55] <mvo> take your time, I will have a closer look in the meantime
[05:55] <mvo> (well, for a bit, I will leave for hockey later)
[05:59] <ogra> seb128, i'm updateing the edubuntu metapackages, do you want me to do that for ubuntu too ? 
[05:59] <seb128> to change what?
[06:00] <ogra> to pull in the seedchange
[06:00] <seb128> ah, the packages according the seeds change
[06:00] <seb128> yeah, feel free to do it
[06:00] <ogra> oki
[06:01] <ogra> nice trade ... 20 removals for 3 additions :)
[06:02] <sivang> is anyone running vmware on breezy 64bit successfuly ?
[06:12] <mvo> pitti: fun, after the first failure, it installs fine on the second run. so maybe just a missing predepends 
[06:12] <pitti> mvo: eek, predepends
[06:12] <pitti> mvo: I'll try it again in my pbuilder
[06:44] <Diziet> Ah, good, my ff has built this time.  Silly me for yesterday's.
[06:45] <pitti> yay
[06:45] <Kinnison> Diziet: always good :-)
[06:47] <Diziet> pitti: And yes, I put your CVEs in this time too. 
[06:47] <pitti> saw it, thanks 
[07:03] <LaserJock> dholbach: I really liked you Hug Day annoucement. I would really like to get a handle on science bugs for MOTUScience
[07:03] <dholbach> LaserJock: cool! Add something to wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[07:04] <LaserJock> dholbach: I will, I am wondering though how MOTU Teams should handle bugs? I like they way the desktop team has https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
[07:05] <LaserJock> dholbach: but should MOTU teams be listed as bug contacts?
[07:05] <dholbach> LaserJock: they could
[07:06] <dholbach> LaserJock: that's something we maybe should decide on in a MOTU meeting
[07:06] <LaserJock> dholbach: I am worried that MOTU as a whole would start missing bugs if a MOTU Team is the bug contact
[07:07] <dholbach> LaserJock: at the moment they are all assigned to 'motu', no?
[07:07] <LaserJock> dholbach: that is why I liked the idea of MOTU Teams in LP being a subset of MOTU
[07:07] <dholbach> (apart from some, which are assigned to subteams)
[07:07] <dholbach> But you're right, we need to find a better way.
[07:07] <LaserJock> dholbach: right, but I would like to change the bug contact to MOTUScience for science related packages for instance
[07:07] <dholbach> (More people first.) :)
[07:07] <dholbach> Yeah, sure.
[07:08] <dholbach> If you have a list of packages, you can simply do that.
[07:08] <LaserJock> dholbach: but then I also want to make sure that universe-bugs gets emailed to
[07:08] <LaserJock> dholbach: I have a list of ~450 source packages for MOTU Science
[07:08] <dholbach> That's some work, then.
[07:09] <LaserJock> dholbach: do you know how many desktop has?
[07:09] <dholbach> I can't tell exactly.
[07:09] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/<source package>/+subscribe   is the way
[07:09] <LaserJock> dholbach: the problem especially is that right now tritium is our only member with Universe upload rights :(
[07:10] <dholbach> You'll move on and have more members soon. :)
[07:10] <LaserJock> dholbach: so I we need the rest of the MOTU involved as far as uploading our patches, etc.
[07:10] <dholbach> Yeah, subscribe 'motureviewers' to those bugs.
[07:11] <dholbach> I'm off for some time now - or did you want to talk about something else?
[07:11] <LaserJock> no, I just wanted to say that I'll be looking forward to the Hug Day ;-)
[07:11] <dholbach> Yeah! Woohoo! :-)
[07:11] <dholbach> I'm happy to be seeing you there. :-)
[07:12] <dholbach> *wave*
[07:12] <LaserJock> one for the road ;-)
[07:29] <Treenaks> BenC: does linux-source-2.6.15_2.6.15-15.21 fix the 'mmc2: DMA end' log-spam for sdhci too? or should I file a bug for that?
[07:33] <jbailey> mdz: ping?  Can you take a look at bug 29768?  We've solved the problem for dapper, but I need guidance on previous releases.  To update these means a whole glibc upload.  Not a horrible thing, but something that I tend to like to avoid.
[07:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29768 in glibc "Australian timezones incorrect for 2006" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29768
[07:33] <jbailey> Ubugtu: thanks.
[07:34] <ogra> jbailey, youre very friendly to the bugbot :)
[07:34] <Burgwork> ogra, he is canadian. It is unavoidable
[07:34] <ogra> lol
[07:34] <Treenaks> ogra: You never know.. it might save his life when the Robot Revolution comes :)
[07:35] <ogra> hehe
[07:35] <jbailey> ogra: When they get smart enough and make us their slaves, I want them to always remember this.
[07:35] <ogra> its logged, you can always point them there, true :)
[07:36] <jbailey> ogra: I suspect google will be the brain behind it all.  I'm sure they'll remember, sort of like a child remembers from the age of 2 that licking the light socket was a bad idea.
[07:36] <ogra> LOOOL
[07:36] <Treenaks> jbailey: you mean you can upload new glibcs to googlenet? :)
[07:37] <jbailey> Treenaks: Nah, with hct and bzr branch tracking, they won't need me to upload it.
[07:37] <Treenaks> true
[07:39] <mdz> jbailey: I have no objection to a glibc upload to *-updates to fix it
[07:39] <mdz> with the customary caution
[07:39] <jbailey> mdz: 'kay.  warty, hoary and breezy?
[07:46] <soumyadip> can anyone tell me how to bring up scim language menu in dapper ?
[07:48] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[08:01] <ogra> siretart, there is no "when battery is low" mode in g-p-m
[08:02] <siretart> ogra: but there is a slider in the 3rd tab, where I can define a limit for 'battery is low'
[08:02] <ogra> it shall only prevent you from running out of battery and preform actions if the battery is critical
[08:02] <siretart> whats this slider for?
[08:02] <Treenaks> siretart: it shows a notification
[08:02] <Treenaks> siretart: 'YOUR BATTERY IS CRITICAL! SHUTDOWN NOW OR LOSE!'
[08:03] <ogra> Treenaks, they are different (low vs critical)
[08:03] <siretart> Treenaks: interesting. this did not happened for me, it just shut down for me without any chance to save my posting
[08:03] <ogra> low should pop up a warning 
[08:03] <ogra> and critical performs an action 
[08:03] <ogra> (low doesnt)
[08:03] <ogra> the action is selectable in the options tab
[08:04] <siretart> ogra: how can I debug hal the most painless way?
[08:04] <Treenaks> ogra: there is no action 'nothing'
[08:04] <ogra> huh ? which version are you running Treenaks ?
[08:05] <ogra> there is a "Do Nothing" action
[08:05] <Treenaks> ogra: there wasn't yesterday, it might be better today
[08:05] <Treenaks> ogra: hm, ok, I was thinking of the wrong selector
[08:05] <ogra> there was no change to the UI since weeks ...
[08:05] <Treenaks> ogra: the hibernate/suspend thingy
[08:06] <ogra> siretart, hald has a debug option ... but its probably easier to run dbus-monitor --session and check the dbus traffic
[08:07] <siretart> ogra: thanks. will investigate this and search for the bug
[08:07] <siretart> there is no point in filing a bug that it crashed for me and there must be a bug somewhere
[08:07] <siretart> yet ;)
[08:07] <ogra> siretart, it did crash ? 
[08:07] <ogra> you didnt say that 
[08:08] <siretart> ogra: it crashed my notebook. 
[08:08] <ogra> it shut down your notebook ... thats not a crash
[08:08] <siretart> mom
[08:09] <ogra> s/shut/shot/
[08:09] <siretart> phon
[08:11] <HiddenWolf> Hm, I just accidentally made my system suspend.
[08:11] <HiddenWolf> System went black right away, without any indication, and I could not get it out. :/
[08:12] <Treenaks> That's 2 bugs: unsuspending should work, and the system shouldn't suspend accidentally
[08:13] <siretart> ogra: I think there was a very very short lived message box about my session beeing saved. 
[08:13] <ogra> Treenaks, thats only one bug ... note the "I just ... made" 
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: I have the suspend key set up in gnome-keyboard as my "lock screen" key
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> it didn't lock, but suspended
[08:13] <ogra> siretart, whats your "Running on batteries" slider set to ? 
[08:13] <siretart> ogra: on the next boot, my session was restored however. so g-p-m didn't really crash. it 'just' shut down my laptop without any warning
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> And yes, I just filed that.
[08:14] <ogra> especially the "put computer to sleep after" one ?
[08:14] <siretart> ogra: put display to sleep after 5 mins, put computer to sleep after 20mins
[08:15] <ogra> so i guess you worked 20 mins =
[08:15] <ogra> ?
[08:15] <ogra> before that happened ? 
[08:16] <siretart> ogra: about that time, I was writing my email in the shell. I was about 20mins without AC, I think
[08:16] <ogra> yup... and i guess your sleep type is hibernate ? 
[08:17] <ogra> (in the options tab)
[08:17] <siretart> no, it is suspend, because of bug 29634
[08:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29634 in linux-source-2.6.15 "usb dead after hibernate/resume on Thinkpad R40-2772-B3G" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29634
[08:18] <ogra> hmm, then thats a bug, but the rest of the behavior was perfectly right according to your settings ... i guess we need a default that sets both sliders to "never" to not surprise users 
[08:19] <HiddenWolf> ogra: hm, gpm seems not to respect my wishes on those settings
[08:20] <HiddenWolf> ogra: setting the monitor setting to 1 minute nothing happens.
[08:20] <ogra> HiddenWolf, but you have gnome-screensaver installed and running ? 
[08:20] <HiddenWolf> ogra: yes
[08:20] <ogra> and your display is dpms enabled ? 
[08:21] <ogra> note that g-p-m only cares for dpms ... 
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> ogra: it's a dell 2405 lcd, from last year.
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> ogra: it should be.
[08:21] <ogra> does it ususally shut down the display power ? 
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> yes, after a time.
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> I've been having issues with it since dapper.
[08:22] <HiddenWolf> it shutting down the monitor while watching a movie over the last few days.
[08:22] <HiddenWolf> not today, for some freak reason.
[08:22] <HiddenWolf> but g-p-m seems to have no effect.
[08:22] <ogra> totem works fine with gnome-screensaver, it shouldnt save the screen if you watch a movie ...
[08:23] <siretart> ogra: thats a great idea
[08:23] <ogra> other movie players miss the necessary fixes to talk to the screensaver yet 
[08:23] <siretart> ogra: I mean to put both sliders to 'never' by default
[08:23] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I used totem-xine
[08:23] <HiddenWolf> ogra: and it sure as hell did. Made me get off the couch every half-hour. :)
[08:23] <ogra> HiddenWolf, and it saved the screen anyway ? 
[08:24] <HiddenWolf> ogra: yes.
[08:24] <HiddenWolf> ogra: of course, today it seems to work, sorta.
[08:24] <ogra> hmm ... that shouldnt happen
[08:24] <siretart> ogra: I have another problem with gnome-screensaver: if I wake up from sleep, my screen is not locked any more. Is this a known problem? is this in acpi-support or gnome-screensaver?
[08:24] <ogra> its based on the g-s-s default setting ...
[08:25] <ogra> if you dont have lock checked, it wont lock ...
[08:25] <ogra> and we changed it to nopt lock at all on pittis request
[08:25] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I've got my monitor setting to 1 minute now. and it didn't send it to sleep. I'll put it to 30 minutes like it was, and see if it does.
[08:25] <HiddenWolf> ogra: that might be it.
[08:26] <siretart> ok. lets retry
[08:27] <siretart> ah, you're right. now it is locking correctly
[08:27] <siretart> thanks
[08:28] <siretart> ogra: last thing for today: is xscreensaver going to be demoted to universe?
[08:28] <ogra> its doing all the right things for you itr seems, just the defaults are a bit insane :)
[08:28] <ogra> the binary, yes
[08:28] <ogra> the hacks will stay in main ...
[08:28] <siretart> why? is it that big crack?
[08:29] <ogra> nope, but we dont need to support two binarys of the same app
[08:29] <siretart> ah, ok, I understand
[08:29] <ogra> and g-s-s is essential for g-p-m
[08:30] <siretart> ogra: then g-p-s needs a depends on g-s-s, no?
[08:30] <ogra> nope 
[08:30] <siretart> but you just said it was essential!
[08:31] <ogra> you can use g-p-m without g-s-s ... it just doesnt do the display tasks (and doesnt show display UI elements)
[08:31] <ogra> but you cant use g-p-m with x-s-s 
[08:31] <siretart> ogra: so it should be at least in Recommends, no?
[08:32] <ogra> so its essential for display stuff ... but not for the functionallity ...
[08:32] <ogra> even a suggests i think 
[08:32] <ogra> but not a hard dependency
[08:33] <siretart> ogra: anyway, would it be possible to change the depends for ubuntu-desktop from 'gnome-screensaver' to 'gnome-screensaver | xscreensaver'? I think about users who have universe enabled and want to use xscreensaver and no g-p-m at all
[08:33] <siretart> and have ubuntu-desktop installed for upgrade convinience
[08:33] <ogra> thas not how the metapackages work ...
[08:33] <siretart> what point did I miss?
[08:34] <ogra> but i could think about something like totem does
[08:34] <ogra> the metapackages accept no "or" in dependencys
[08:34] <siretart> they do not? why not?
[08:34] <siretart> (I really like to understand this point)
[08:35] <ogra> because the seeds dont accept them ... i didnt write this setup ... 
[08:35] <siretart> ah. I see
[08:35] <ogra> but you can do an additional metapackage ... like totem 
[08:35] <_ace> hi
[08:36] <ogra> which indeed brings further maintenace work ...
[08:36] <_ace> ogra: am i disturbing you??
[08:36] <ogra> and i'm not sure if x-s-s justifies that 
[08:36] <ogra> just to prevent -desktop from getting removed ...
[08:36] <ogra> which is really no biggie 
[08:36] <ogra> _ace, nope, why should you ...
[08:37] <siretart> ogra: well, x-s-s offers a lot more options/preferences a user can tweak. ubuntu will be blamed for trading x-s-s with g-s-s. 
[08:37] <ogra> _ace, oh, i didnt see the query ... i have about 50 tabs open ...
[08:37] <siretart> heh
[08:38] <ogra> siretart, but its no prob to install x-s-s
[08:38] <siretart> ogra: perhaps we can have a meta-package in universe, which provides/conflicts gnome-screensaver but depends on x-s-s
[08:39] <siretart> ogra: having both installed is, well, confusing at least. so if I want to use x-s-s, I'd like to remove g-s-s. And now ubuntu-desktop get's deinstalled, with big potential to break upgrading to the next release
[08:40] <ogra> having both installed does break 
[08:50] <siretart> dholbach: (moving discussion from -motu here, lucas is here as well): how do I check if dmix is enabled for me?
[08:51] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnomemeeting/+bug/22488
[08:51] <Ubugtu> malone bug 22488 in gnomemeeting "When gnomemeeting is running no other programs can play sound" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:52] <ogra> doesnt ekiga just use gstreamer ? 
[08:52] <siretart> dholbach: ok, then dmix works  for me, but bug 30578 is still valid
[08:52] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30578 in ekiga "Ekiga uses ALSA layer, but sound card is blocked by esd" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30578
[08:52] <siretart> ogra: no, it seems to use alsa directly
[08:52] <ogra> ouch
[08:52] <ogra> tahst bad if your audiosink is esd indeed
[08:53] <dholbach> It'd make sense to follow up on the upstream bug (lucas found) with the information of the bug.
[08:53] <siretart> where to choose the default audio sink?
[08:54] <dholbach> bbl
[08:54] <dholbach> *wave*
[08:54] <siretart> cu dholbach 
[08:54] <dholbach> cu siretart
[08:54] <ogra> dholbach, thats pretty pointless if it doesnt use gstreame though ... the autosink pitti wrote is pretty uniqe and does expect that everything uses gstreamer
[08:54] <dholbach> ogra: hm?
[08:55] <ogra> go for your dogwalk ... 
[08:55] <ogra> we can talk later about bugs ...
[08:55] <siretart> ogra: do you really expect every program to use gstreamer? there are so many legacy apps out there which use alsa directly
[08:55] <dholbach> ogra: I have no idea, what you are talking about and I didn't suggest much apart from following up on the upstream bug. :)
[08:55] <ogra> dholbach, which i said is pointless if ekiga doesnt use gstreamer at all ...
[08:56] <ogra> siretart, yes, but we dont expect apps to use esd if possible ...
[08:56] <dholbach> ogra: which upstream bug do you refer to?
[08:56] <siretart> ogra: does esd support recording at all?
[08:57] <ogra> siretart, i think there are client tools in esound-clients to do that  ...
[08:58] <ogra> dholbach, nevermind, i'm up to long already, i read "Ekiga uses esd, but sound card is blocked by ALSA"
[08:58] <ogra> sorry ...
[08:58] <dholbach> ogra: don't worry - i just didn't get it :-)
[08:59] <siretart> ogra: no, it is the other way round. ekiga doesn't work because esd blocks the soundcard
[08:59] <ogra> siretart, yes
[09:05] <lucas> the upstream is only similar, it's not the same bug
[09:25] <Kamion> siretart: honestly I think it would be better for users in the long run to make xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver cooperate better with each other so you can have both installed
[09:26] <Kamion> siretart: that way if different users on the same system prefer a different screensaver program, they can have it
[09:26] <siretart> Kamion: thats right. 
[09:26] <Kamion> this conflicts business is just a pain in the arse
[09:27] <siretart> first problem is that there are 2 screensaver entries in the Settings menu. this is really confusing
[09:28] <siretart> next, how to choose which screensaver should be active, and how to prohibit that the 2 don't run at the same time
[09:28] <seb128> GNOME starts gnome-screensaver by default and try xscreensaver if the first is not installed
[09:29] <siretart> seb128: so gnome-session needs to be enhanced so the user can choose which screensaver he wants to use, right?
[09:30] <seb128> "need" no
[09:30] <seb128> but you could do that probably yep
[09:30] <seb128> patches are welcome
[09:30] <siretart> well, in order to make the two screensavers cooperate nicely, that is
[09:30] <seb128> I don't think upstream or desktop team is going to work on that
[09:30] <seb128> they do cooperate nicely
[09:31] <siretart> sure. wouldn't this be a nice bounty? ;)
[09:31] <seb128> xscreensaver is ignored if gnome-screensaver is installed
[09:31] <seb128> no
[09:31] <seb128> it's not useful enough to be a bounty
[09:31] <siretart> j/k
[09:31] <seb128> and it's probably an 1 hour work for any contributor which knows how to code a bit
[09:31] <pitti> hi again
[09:31] <seb128> wb pitti
[09:31] <siretart> wb pitti 
[10:02] <ubijtsa> good evening..
[10:03] <ubijtsa> who would be the right person to talk to about /etc/security/limits.conf ?
[10:05] <mdz> this channel or the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[10:05] <ubijtsa> ok, lesse if anyone bites... I had a mail exchange with someone off LKML, about the cdrecord debacle..
[10:06] <ubijtsa> there is a setting, RLIMIT_STACK, that can be tuned through /etc/security/limits.conf
[10:06] <ubijtsa> would it be an idea to set a default on that perhaps?
[10:07] <ubijtsa> it was suggested that 512kB would be a better setting than the default 8MB
[10:08] <ubijtsa> I have done some light testing this evening, and the memory usage drops not an unsignificant amount for a Gnome or KDE desktop
[10:08] <ubijtsa> it's just an idea...
[10:09] <mdz> how are you measuring memory usage?
[10:09] <ubijtsa> Log out and back in and the VSZ of your desktop apps should drop
[10:09] <ubijtsa> dramatically...
[10:09] <ubijtsa> bummer
[10:10] <ubijtsa> scratch that line
[10:11] <ubijtsa> Just looking at the overall memory consumption of the system using System Monitor
[10:12] <ubijtsa> The blue part of the graph shrank back noticably. I will leave running and will test with different applications if any adverse effects.
[10:15] <mdz> VSZ isn't a good indicator of memory usage
[10:15] <mdz> I don't know what the system monitor uses
[10:17] <ubijtsa> Okay. I can save the data from /proc/meminfo, with it enabled and disabled. That should give some idea of specific numbers.
[10:21] <mdz> even if the process maps an 8M stack, the memory isn't allocated unless it's actually used
[10:24] <ralph_> mvo: I heard you are the one to talk to about a dist-upgrade
[10:25] <ubijtsa> mdz: let me collect stats on my box for the session I use. if I can say how much % difference it makes it may be better.
[10:26] <mvo> ralph_: yes
[10:26] <ralph_> Just tried an upgrade from 5.10 to dapper.
[10:27] <ralph_> apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:27] <mvo> ralph_: we are writing a tool for this
[10:27] <ralph_> no errors
[10:28] <mvo> ralph_: no errors? nice :) so everything worked fine?
[10:28] <ralph_> Now I tried to reboot and the system stops the boot process somewhere. I want to contribute and post the bug somewhere. What do I do.
[10:28] <ralph_> (at least I got the consoles to work with)
[10:29] <mvo> ralph_: so no X ? or problems mounting root
[10:29] <mvo> that is, problems mounting the root fs?
[10:30] <ralph_> no x but all the consoles. Can't change the inits, can't check alt-f8 to look at the messages.
[10:30] <mvo> ralph_: can you please send me a copy of your initramfs
[10:31] <ralph_> I'd like to, but how do I do that?
[10:56] <MisterN> n8
[11:37] <dholbach> night mvo