[12:29] <cogumbreiro> uploading the tar.gz works correctly
[12:33] <dholbach> good night
[02:00] <lifeless> jamesh: hows the branch status coming along ?
[02:03] <jamesh> lifeless: I started working on the XML-RPC changes yesterday, but need to finish BjornT's review before continuing today
[02:06] <lifeless> tha's cool
[02:59] <squinn> I recently went back to Ubuntu. Today, actually. In the process of not having Ubuntu, my email was hacked and the password was changed. So I created a new Launchpad account, but it won't let me edit the Wiki to redo my bio. Anyone know why?
[03:10] <jamesh> squinn: so you can log into Launchpad but not the wiki?
[03:10] <squinn> correct.
[03:11] <squinn> Hold on. I use my email as username. I'm in I think.
[07:02] <mpt> Gooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[07:07] <ajmitch> hi mpt
[07:47] <poningru> mpt: what movie is that from?
[07:52] <poningru> was it something I said?
[08:06] <SteveA> morning
[08:23] <mpt> poningru, what movie is what from?
[08:23] <poningru> [01:02:32]  <mpt> Gooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[08:23] <poningru> the goooooooooood evening was from some movie
[08:23] <poningru> iirc
[08:23] <mpt> hmmm
[08:23] <SteveA> "good morning vietnam"
[08:23] <SteveA> with robin williams
[08:24] <mpt> yeah, that
[08:24] <mpt> but more relevant is jdub's "GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!"
[08:24] <mpt> Perhaps I'll shift (no pun intended) to capital letters once Launchpad becomes Free Software ;-)
[08:26] <poningru> true
[08:26] <poningru> hehe
[08:32] <carlos> morning
[08:35] <SteveA> hi carlos
[08:36] <mpt> SteveA, main-template.pt already contains the heading slot you suggested
[08:37] <mpt> it prints context/title only if something else isn't provided
[08:37] <mpt> which calendar-*.pt do
[08:38] <SteveA> mpt: i want that to change.
[08:39] <SteveA> i want it to be an error, not to fall back to context/title
[08:39] <SteveA> but, that's for later
[08:39] <mpt> and currently it's always an <h2>, which doesn't really work
[08:40] <SteveA> ah
[08:40] <SteveA> fuck
[08:40] <SteveA> i'm so confused
[08:40] <SteveA> see, context/title
[08:40] <SteveA> in the context of a page template
[08:40] <SteveA> soiunds like it should be the page title
[08:40] <SteveA> whereas we're talking about page headings
[08:41] <mpt> indeed
[08:41] <mpt> that confusion leaks into Launchpad's UI for some things
[08:41] <mpt> asking for a "title" for various things
[08:41] <SteveA> well
[08:41] <SteveA> that was a dublin-core-ish decision from early on
[08:42] <SteveA> but it doesn't mean we should expose it in the UI
[08:42] <mpt> TotalExposure, dude
[08:43] <lifeless> OverExposure can be fatal
[08:43] <mpt> I think of it as IndecentExposure
[08:43] <SteveA> jdub says "yoyo, pants off"
[08:46] <mpt> so, something I've never fully understood
[08:46] <mpt> and it's not completely explained in the Zope book
[08:47] <mpt> for <tal:foo content="something | default">bar</tal:foo>, if "something" doesn't evaluate, do I get "bar"?
[08:47] <lifeless> mpt: in python that would be 'content = something or default'
[08:48] <lifeless> mpt: or for more clarity, if something: content=something \n else content = defaut
[08:48] <mpt> sure, I understand that bit (it's in the book)
[08:49] <lifeless> ok. what do you mean by 'does not evaluate' then ?
[08:49] <mpt> I mean what the book says by "if a path expression fails"
[08:49] <lifeless> hmm, EJARGON. SteveA ?
[08:51] <mpt> "default" means the contents of the element
[08:52] <mpt> so <tal:foo content="something | default" /> is an obscure way of saying <tal:foo condition="something" content="something" />
[08:52] <lifeless> bar in your example
[08:52] <BjornT> lifeless, mpt: it's not exactly the same as in python. in tal, if 'something' is defined to be None, 'something|default' will evaluate to None.
[08:53] <mpt> There's not (yet) much use in trying to explain something to me by telling me the Python equivalent ;-)
[08:53] <SteveA> mpt: foo | bar  is different from python's   foo or bar
[08:54] <SteveA> it is also not the same as using tal:condition
[08:54] <mpt> e.g., I'm not familiar with the precise behavior of python's foo or bar
[08:54] <SteveA> although there is some cross-over in uses
[08:54] <SteveA> rather than use analogies
[08:54] <SteveA> i will explain to you what the | operator does in TALES path expressions
[08:54] <mpt> nono, I've just worked it all out
[08:54] <mpt> thanks though
[08:54] <SteveA> really?
[08:54] <SteveA> cool
[08:55] <SteveA> the summary for folks listening at home is...
[08:55] <mpt> yes, half of it is in the book, the other half is in my experimental main-template.pt
[08:55] <SteveA> the | operator is about catching "I cannot resolve this path" errors and dealing with them
[08:55] <mpt> the summary is, try things yourself before interrupting people much smarter than you to ask them silly questions
[08:55] <SteveA> so, you have a path expression such as foo/bar/baz in TALES
[08:56] <SteveA> and if the machinery that resolves paths to objects cannot do so for 'foo/bar/baz'
[08:56] <SteveA> then usually, it will raise an exception
[08:56] <mpt> ... for instance, if there's no foo/bar ...
[08:56] <SteveA> but, instead, you can use  |  to say
[08:56] <SteveA> if the path cannot be resolved, then try this other thing instead
[08:56] <mpt> yes.
[08:56] <SteveA> often, you'll want to end up with  | default
[08:56] <SteveA> or  | nothing
[08:56] <SteveA> or  | string:hahayoulose
[08:56] <mpt> oh, nothing
[08:57] <mpt> that's better than default" />
[08:57] <mpt> well, same result, but more obvious
[08:57] <SteveA> better than string: too
[08:57] <mpt> and probably a teeny bit faster
[08:58] <SteveA> no, it is all slow ;-)
[09:02] <jamesh> for example, the bit of the product-index.pt template that shows the project portlet could use "context/project/@@+portlet-details | nothing" rather than using tal:condition
[09:02] <jamesh> and would work when project is None
[09:06] <SteveA> the thing to watch out for is when you have foo/bar | nothing
[09:06] <SteveA> or rather, when you have foo/bar | default
[09:06] <SteveA> and you expect to get the default when bar is None
[09:06] <SteveA> or some other false value
[09:06] <SteveA> that won't happen though
[09:07] <SteveA> because |  is only about recovering from path errors, not about logic operations
[09:52] <purple_cow> i don't suppose anyone knows anything about https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/28851 ?
[09:52] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28851 in rosetta "pot import failing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:52] <purple_cow> it's getting really frustrating not being able to update anything :(
[09:53] <mpt> purple_cow, ask carlos when he wakes up
[09:56] <carlos> hmm
[09:56] <carlos> ok, I think I can implement a workaround until I fix it. at least, It should work for you.
[09:57] <purple_cow> wonderful :)
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: what's your product? xchat?
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: what's your product? xchat-gnome?
[09:57] <purple_cow> right
[09:57] <purple_cow> the latter
[09:57] <carlos> purple_cow: try it again
[09:57] <carlos> it should work now
[09:58] <purple_cow> no oops this time
[09:58] <carlos> cool
[10:01] <purple_cow> looks like it worked
[10:02] <purple_cow> thanks a bunch!
[10:25] <daf> mpt: yo
[10:28] <mpt> hi daf
[10:29] <daf> let's talk people and users
[10:30] <mpt> ok
[10:30] <mpt> so, we have
[10:30] <mpt> (1) people who use Launchpad
[10:30] <mpt> (2) people who've never used Launchpad
[10:30] <mpt> (3) people who used Launchpad but want others to know that they don't use it any more
[10:30] <daf> (3) people who've never used Launchpad but have Person objects representing them in the system
[10:31] <mpt> your (3) is my (2), I think
[10:31] <daf> *(4)
[10:31] <daf> (2a), perhaps
[10:31] <mpt> "so, we have" -> "there are Launchpad accounts for"
[10:31] <daf> ah
[10:32] <daf> ok
[10:32] <mpt> (1) is fine
[10:32] <daf> wait a second
[10:32] <daf> you used the term "account" there
[10:32] <mpt> yes...
[10:32] <daf> Steve suggested (and I agree with him) that we only use the term "account" for Persons that have validated email addresses
[10:32] <daf> i.e. Persons who are actively using Launchpad
[10:33] <daf> person: somebody who may or may not be using Launchpad
[10:33] <mpt> In that case, what would we use for the Launchpad entity representing someone who isn't?
[10:33] <daf> account: somebody who is using Launchpad
[10:33] <daf> user: somebody with an account who is currently logged in
[10:33] <daf> is the proposed terminology
[10:34] <daf> Person is used to represent both account-holders and non-account-holders
[10:34] <mpt> That's straying a bit too far from the dictionary for my tastes
[10:34] <daf> i.e. we could have a Person.has_account() method
[10:34] <mpt> I am a person
[10:34] <daf> you are
[10:35] <mpt> whether or not I have a Launchpad account
[10:35] <daf> agreed
[10:35] <daf> maybe I'm getting distracted
[10:35] <daf> the point is this:
[10:35] <mpt> with your terminology, I might have two or more Launchpad "persons"
[10:35] <mpt> if I haven't merged them yet
[10:35] <daf> the UI should make a clear distinction between a Person who has an account, and a Person who doesn't
[10:36] <lifeless> banks call account holders 'client's
[10:36] <lifeless> or 'customer's
[10:36] <mpt> As much as all our software development should be focused on helping people get laid, it would seem very strange to me to talk about merging persons
[10:37] <daf> Launchpad users are not clients or customers -- that implies a financial relationship to my mind
[10:37] <daf> well, we can talk about merging accounts
[10:38] <mpt> right
[10:38] <mpt> a single person may have multiple accounts, especially if they haven't started using Launchpad
[10:38] <daf> the point is to make the developers and users to keep the distinction between the two types of person clear
[10:38] <mpt> so Launchpad doesn't know the accounts refer to the same person
[10:38] <daf> right
[10:39] <mpt> ok
[10:39] <daf> when somebody unexpectedly sees a page about them in Launchpad, it should absoltely not imply that they use Launchpad
[10:39] <daf> in fact, it should say that they don't
[10:39] <mpt> So for accounts that haven't been used, we need to make it clear that they haven't been used
[10:39] <lifeless> are they two types of people
[10:39] <lifeless> or are they people that have taken different actions ?
[10:40] <daf> yes and no
[10:40] <daf> a Person might have no account either
[10:40] <daf> a) because they have taken no action to create an account (validating an email address)
[10:40] <daf> or
[10:40] <daf> b) they have deactivated their account because they've decided that Launchpad sucks
[10:41] <daf> we don't support (b) currently
[10:41] <daf> I think we should treat (a) and (b) equivalently
[10:41] <daf> "This person does not currently use Launchpad."
[10:42] <mpt> right
[10:42] <lifeless> the fact you say that 'a person might have no account'
[10:42] <lifeless> suggests to me that they are not different types of people
[10:42] <lifeless> its not like 'man' and 'women' where its an innate property of the person to be that thing
[10:43] <daf> I'm not sure I follow
[10:43] <daf> it's a sort of "can log in" property of Person
[10:43] <daf> it is changable
[10:43] <daf> does that clarify it?
[10:44] <lifeless> when you say 'type' I, and I suspect most programmer think of subclasses
[10:44] <daf> ok, then perhaps we should avoid that term
[10:44] <lifeless> things that change behaviour without changing the innate nature of an object are rarely 'type' related.
[10:44] <daf> I was using "type" in an informal English sort of way :)
[10:45] <SteveA> mpt: 
[10:45] <SteveA> mpt (1) people who use Launchpad
[10:45] <SteveA> don't say "people" here
[10:45] <SteveA> because there is confusion between Person (in our database) and person (a real breathing human)
[10:47] <mpt> so, the database is using a confusing term
[10:47] <SteveA> not really
[10:47] <SteveA> it all depends on the context of a discussion
[10:47] <mpt> (1) humans who use Launchpad
[10:47] <SteveA> because this particular discussion crosses a number of contexts
[10:48] <SteveA> we need to be very careful about the terms we use
[10:48] <mpt> ...
[10:49] <SteveA> but sure, you can sort all human beings into the following categories
[10:49] <SteveA> ...
[10:49] <mpt> the database might have two or more "Person" things for one real-life person
[10:49] <mpt> therefore, bad term
[10:50] <SteveA> another way to think of it is that the database represents real-life persons it knows about as Person records
[10:51] <SteveA> but, the database is sometimes inaccurate
[10:51] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/people/debzilla
[10:52] <SteveA> right, we have teams too
[10:52] <SteveA> but for the purposes of a discussion, you can consider that the database has Person records and Team records
[10:52] <SteveA> the fact that we use the same table for both is an implementation trick
[10:53] <mpt> ok, here's what I suggest
[10:53] <mpt> we could discuss this for quite some time yet
[10:54] <mpt> but at the moment it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere concrete
[10:54] <mpt> so, daf, apart from making it clear that "Foo doesn't use Launchpad" on the person page and in their icon
[10:54] <mpt> are there other specific things you think we should be doing?
[10:55] <daf> we should support deactivating accounts
[10:55] <SteveA> the terms i'd use (made up now) are: Person record, Person page, Team page, launchpad account, real person
[10:55] <daf> we don't allow deleting Person records
[10:55] <SteveA> so...
[10:56] <SteveA> a real person who can log into launchpad has a launchpad account
[10:56] <SteveA> the launchpad account links a real person with a Person record
[10:56] <SteveA> on a Person page, we should state clearly whether that Person record is associated with a launchpad account, and thus a real person who can log into launchpad
[10:56] <SteveA> we can say "this person has a launchpad account"
[10:57] <SteveA> or "this person does not have a launchpad account"
[10:57] <SteveA> we can provide a UI for real people to get a launchpad account
[10:57] <SteveA> (we do already -- signing up)
[10:57] <SteveA> we can provide a UI for real people who have launchpad accounts to delete their launchpad account
[10:58] <mpt> daf, I know of one other site which has this "we know about this person, but they don't use the site" situation
[10:58] <SteveA> as a further future thing, we can remove Person records from the database where that Person isn't linked to anything significant in the database
[10:58] <daf> mpt: what is it?
[10:59] <mpt> gah, it was working a moment ago
[11:00] <mpt> http://www.43people.com/profile/view/104310
[11:00] <mpt> (this is a site where you make lists of people you'd like to meet)
[11:01] <daf> '(placeholder)'
[11:01] <mpt> indeed
[11:01] <SteveA> everything2
[11:01] <SteveA> wikipedia, in a sense
[11:01] <lifeless> linkedin I think
[11:01] <mpt> When I'm logged in there's a link saying "Help us find the real John Kerry"
[11:01] <mpt> So I can suggest a merge with an existing account
[11:02] <mpt> or say "I'm the real John Kerry"
[11:02] <SteveA> everything2 has a different namespace for users and persons in general
[11:02] <SteveA> but they are both part of a larger namespace of articles (or "nodes")
[11:02] <mpt> Does everything2 represent people in that namespace who have never used the site?
[11:03] <SteveA> in what namespace?
[11:03] <mpt> in the "users and persons in general" namespace
[11:03] <daf> no
[11:03] <SteveA> yes
[11:03] <SteveA> that's the "stuff" namespace
[11:03] <SteveA> and you can certainly write a node about me
[11:03] <daf> oh, right
[11:03] <SteveA> even though i am not a user
[11:04] <mpt> and then the real you can go and claim that account?
[11:06] <mpt> Nothing like that happens on Wikipedia
[11:06] <SteveA> no, because it is not an account
[11:06] <SteveA> it is just some information about me
[11:06] <daf> no, the concept of an article about you and you having an account are completely separate in e2
[11:06] <mpt> same in Wikipedia
[11:07] <SteveA> daf is right.  that's my point about separate namespaces
[11:07] <daf> for instance: http://everything2.com/?node=Diane%20Duane
[11:07] <SteveA> in launchpad, we have a single namespace
[11:07] <daf> she has an e2 account
[11:07] <SteveA> but we can choose to split the single namespace into two categories
[11:07] <daf> (I was going to point to a friend of mine who has a Wikipedia article, but it got deleted after she suggested she wasn't notable enough)
[11:07] <mpt> that actually looks like a bug in Wikipedia
[11:08] <mpt> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:DafyddHarries&action=edit
[11:08] <mpt> I can go ahead and create a page for an account that doesn't exist
[11:09] <SteveA> so, anyway...
[11:09] <SteveA> mpt and daf, do you agree with what i said earlier
[11:09] <SteveA> about saying clearly whether someone has a launchpad account or not?
[11:09] <daf> yes
[11:09] <SteveA> we can also add an API for .hasLaunchpadAccount
[11:09] <SteveA> to Person
[11:10] <SteveA> and use this to choose whether to display things that make sense only when you have an account
[11:10] <SteveA> like your status of signing the CoC
[11:11] <mpt> I agree with all your feature ideas, though the terminology makes me go aaarggggh
[11:12] <SteveA> mpt: which terminology would you like to replace?
[11:12] <mpt> "account" with "uses Launchpad"
[11:13] <mpt> and "Person" with "account"
[11:13] <SteveA> i don't understand
[11:13] <SteveA> can you say what you mean, but using more words?
[11:13] <mpt> sure
[11:14] <mpt> If I'm a Debian developer and Launchpad has sucked in data about me using two different e-mail addresses, and Launchpad doesn't know they're associated
[11:14] <mpt> any English dictionary will agree they're not two Persons
[11:14] <SteveA> so, are you proposing to use "account" for that?
[11:15] <mpt> yes
[11:15] <SteveA> i don't support that
[11:15] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22claim%20this%20account%22
[11:15] <SteveA> an account is something that someone owns
[11:15] <SteveA> it is important that we do not have unclaimed accounts in launchpad
[11:15] <SteveA> because that would be offensive to (for example) debian developers who do not support using launchpad
[11:16] <SteveA> we would have an unclaimed account for them
[11:16] <SteveA> sending someone a credit card that is made in their name ready to use
[11:16] <mpt> I'm not strongly attached to the word account, but I am strongly attached to not using person for things that aren't
[11:16] <SteveA> when they did not request it
[11:16] <SteveA> if you are into conspriacy theories, we have a Launchpad "file" about people
[11:17] <daf> mpt: Launchpad records information about humans that don't use Launchpad -- what else should we call them?
[11:17] <SteveA> about some things they have done in the open source / free software world
[11:17] <SteveA> when we show a distribution in launchpad
[11:17] <SteveA> we don't say "A File on a Distribution"
[11:17] <SteveA> we say "A Distribution"
[11:17] <SteveA> it is assumed that launchpad does not actually have a distribution inside it
[11:18] <SteveA> but that we are displaying data about it
[11:18] <SteveA> so, it is also obvious that launchpad does not actually contain people 
[11:18] <SteveA> and a Person page is not that person, but information about that person
[11:18] <SteveA> (within the scope of what launchpad is for)
[11:18] <mpt> we don't contain two records about the Ubuntu distribution
[11:18] <mpt> if we did, that would be a bug
[11:18] <SteveA> what kind of bug?
[11:19] <SteveA> it would be a bug in the *use* of launchpad
[11:19] <SteveA> not in launchpad itself
[11:19] <mpt> right
[11:19] <SteveA> launchpad can easily contain two equivalent products
[11:19] <SteveA> two people register a product
[11:19] <SteveA> and didn't check with each other first
[11:19] <SteveA> and so, we may in the future need a way to merge products
[11:19] <mpt> daf, perhaps "profiles"
[11:19] <SteveA> the same can happen with distros
[11:19] <mpt> that's what 43people uses
[11:20] <SteveA> but, distros are few
[11:20] <SteveA> so the problem does not occur
[11:20] <SteveA> people are many
[11:20] <SteveA> so are products
[11:20] <daf> mpt: yuck
[11:21] <ddaa> Distros are few?????? http://lwn.net/Distributions/
[11:21] <mpt> I also quite expect that we will have more non-human accounts like debzilla in future
[11:21] <SteveA> the world of open source is made up of people, who organise themselves into teams, who write source code and documentation for products, which are packaged into source packages for use in distributions
[11:21] <SteveA> take that sentence
[11:21] <SteveA> and change the words
[11:21] <SteveA> see if it still works
[11:22] <SteveA> we should use "Person" in the launchpad UI
[11:22] <SteveA> but when we're talking about adding or removing etc.
[11:22] <SteveA> we should probably talk about Person records or Person profiles
[11:22] <SteveA> but only there
[11:22] <SteveA> most people just read launchpad, and maybe sign up for an account once
[11:22] <SteveA> most real people, of course
[11:23] <SteveA> so we can offer to "merge this person profile into your own"
[11:23] <SteveA> but i would not want the main page of a person in launchpad to say "Profile of John Smith"
[11:23] <SteveA> the word "profile" should be reserved for when you're logged in, about actions on person records
[11:23] <SteveA> <end of transmission>
[11:23] <mpt> ok
[11:24] <SteveA> that's my opinoin
[11:24] <SteveA> i'm open to discussion, and differing opinions
[11:25] <daf> I agree about the use of the term "profile"
[11:29] <daf> stub: yo
[11:33] <ddaa> mpt: what do you think of ProductSeries?
[11:37] <mpt> ddaa, as little as possible
[11:37] <mpt> what do you mean exactly? :-)
[11:42] <carlos> see you later
[11:45] <Kinnison> stub: ping
[11:49] <daf> jamesh: ping
[11:54] <cprov> morning, hackers
[11:54] <daf> morning cprov 
[11:54] <daf> I have an interesting oops for you
[11:54] <daf> I can reproduce it
[11:54] <daf> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-02-10/A38
[11:55] <cprov> daf: let's go 
[11:55] <daf> I'm guessing that you need to escape the contents of sourcepackagenametxt before interpolating it into the regex
[11:55] <daf> lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/sourcepackage.py:74
[11:57] <daf> aha, I have a test case
[11:58] <daf> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filevRx2l2.html
[11:58] <cprov> daf: this method is 'the suck' ... already removed unused parts and it still making troubles. can you reproduce it locally 
[11:58] <daf> I'll file a bug
[11:59] <cprov> daf: good
[12:00] <stub> Kinnison: pong
[12:00] <Kinnison> stub: I may need your assistance to do some brain surgery on the publishing records
[12:00] <Kinnison> stub: how long are you around for?
[12:01] <stub> I'll be around for another 3 or 4 hours, on and off.
[12:01] <Kinnison> Cool
[12:01] <Kinnison> thanks
[12:01] <Kinnison> Hopefully I won't need you
[12:01] <Kinnison> we'll see :-)
[12:02] <Kinnison> I should be able to do all this surgery as lucille
[12:02] <daf> stub: I'd like to be able to use my changes in r3018
[12:02] <daf> stub: rolling it out either on staging or production would be great
[12:02] <daf> stub: are you in charge of staging again?
[12:02] <stub> daf: eh?
[12:03] <Kinnison> stub: Oh yeah, you have staging under your full control again and it'd be nice if drescher couldn't talk to asuka any more
[12:03] <cprov> daf: do you mean we are having troubles with the 'xx++' within the regexp ?
[12:03] <stub> Kinnison: ok. 
[12:03] <Kinnison> stub: well, unless cprov wants to retain it
[12:03] <Kinnison> cprov: ^^^?
[12:03] <daf> cprov: y
[12:03] <daf> 
[12:03] <daf> er
[12:03] <daf> cprov: exactly
[12:03] <daf> cprov: https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/31039
[12:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31039 in soyuz "changelog linkification doesn't work properly for package names containing "+"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:04] <cprov> daf: right, thx dude !
[12:04] <daf> no worries
[12:04] <daf> re.escape is what's needed, I think
[12:05] <dholbach> Hello.
[12:05] <dholbach> tango-icon-theme doesn't seem to exist as an upstream product - do I have to create it manually?
[12:05] <daf> stub: so, I have a script that fetches information about bugs and displays it in ways that are useful to bug triage
[12:05] <cprov> Kinnison: stub: I ok to loose staging ... would be nice if we can sync production easily/on-demand in mawson (dogfood) then I can do some tests there
[12:06] <daf> stub: however, it currently can't get dup information
[12:06] <daf> stub: r3018 fixes this
[12:06] <cprov> stub: is that possible  and not so much distressing ?
[12:06] <daf> stub: having r3018 either in production or staging would be useful
[12:07] <daf> oh, I mean r3118
[12:08] <daf> stub: any idea what might cause "ERROR: duplicate key violates unique constraint "sessiondata_key" INSERT INTO SessionPkgData"
[12:08] <ddaa> hello again mpt
[12:08] <daf> dholbach: what are you trying to do?
[12:09] <ddaa> mpt: so, my issue is that I grew convinced that RCS import details should be moved out of ProducSeries.
[12:09] <dholbach> daf: I wanted to create an upstream task for a bug, so the upstream bug could be monitored.
[12:09] <daf> dholbach: aha, then yes, you will need to create the product
[12:09] <dholbach> daf: right now I just assigned the upstream bug just to the ubuntu task.
[12:09] <ddaa> Maybe a new RcsImport object. And that ProductSeries may be attached to a RcsImport or an existing branch.
[12:10] <stub> daf: Bug in the session machinery - I'll be looking into soonish
[12:10] <daf> stub: is there a bug filed?
[12:10] <stub> daf: Dunno
[12:10] <stub> Probably one of those oopses somewhere
[12:10] <ddaa> mpt: I have a strong feeling that this "RCS imports in ProductSeries" is a case of "design by modelling the world".
[12:11] <daf> stub: let's file one and worry about dups later
[12:11] <ddaa> mpt: but it seems like I was unable to convince the other guys when I raised that topic on the launchpad mailing list.
[12:11] <stub> daf: That patch will roll out to staging tomorrow
[12:11] <ddaa> mpt: you here?
[12:11] <daf> stub: ok, I can wait
[12:12] <stub> Are you screen scraping? We can access the real database you realize.
[12:12] <stub> We don't *have* to do things the hard way :-)
[12:12] <daf> I have an API
[12:12] <daf> of sorts
[12:13] <daf> which Ubugtu is also using
[12:13] <daf> I admit, it didn't occur to me to access the DB directly on mawson
[12:13] <daf> it might have been easier in retrospect :)
[12:14] <stub> Back in an hour - any last requests?
[12:15] <daf> nope
[12:16] <stub> cprov: Do you mean you would like to keep access to the staging database? If so, do you need the data preserved or can I start regularly resyncing it with production.
[12:16] <daf> stub: a present: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/31041
[12:16] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31041 in launchpad "session machinery sometimes uses duplicate session package data keys" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:16] <SteveA> daf: if we access the database directly for launchpad bug triage, we're not helping launchpad be useful in general for bug triage
[12:17] <daf> SteveA: if I'd written scrape.py to get information directly from the DB, would it have made a difference?
[12:17] <daf> (aside from not having the text export API)
[12:17] <cprov> stub: yes, you can start the resync, I meant, atm some point in the future I'd like to have a fresh production sync on mawson, to perform dangerous tests
[12:17] <SteveA> you can release scrape.py to the distro team today, for example
[12:17] <SteveA> or to anyone else
[12:17] <daf> that's true
[12:17] <stub> cprov: Ok.
[12:17] <daf> it's easy to build new kinds of display on top of it
[12:18] <daf> so it might be useful to give it to people
[12:18] <cprov> stub: for example, could you do it today, then we can do the security upload tests during the weekend ?
[12:18] <daf> (indeed, people can bzr branch sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/daf/public_html/bugs)
[12:19] <daf> hmm, it would be nice to have a way to cross off items on the OOPS summaries
[12:20] <daf> so that Diogo doesn't waste time looking at ones I already have
[12:20] <daf> cprov: I'm looking at today's OOPS summary
[12:20] <daf> cprov: there are lots of OOPSes from search bots
[12:21] <daf> cprov: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops-summaries/2006-02-10.html
[12:21] <daf> cprov: the top 3 exceptions there are all on build pages
[12:21] <cprov> daf: do you mean related on soyuz searches ? yes, it was expected ... I'm reading
[12:21] <daf> cprov: I'm not too worried about it, because it's only search bots and not users
[12:22] <daf> cprov: but it would be nice to be able to convert these into 404s or something
[12:22] <cprov> daf: ohh, there is a LOT !
[12:23] <daf> yes :)
[12:23] <daf> 224 + 36 + 24
[12:23] <daf> in ~8 hours
[12:49] <daf> SteveA: yesterday you said you'd tell me "later" about what you thought of what I'd done with "items from the last meeting" in the summary
[12:50] <SteveA> daf: i'll look now
[12:50] <SteveA> daf: i think the meeting summaries would be better most recent at the top, on MeetingAgenda
[12:50] <daf> good idea
[12:53] <ddaa> Somebody up for a quasi-trivial review?
[12:53] <SteveA> daf: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DevelopmentMeeting20060202   reads very well
[12:53] <SteveA> ddaa: ok, me
[12:55] <ddaa> found it
[12:55] <daf> SteveA: great -- the main problem you mentioned before was distinguishing new MeetingAction itmes from old ones
[12:55] <ddaa> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filefnYVFv.html
[12:56] <SteveA> daf: there was no problem like that in 20060202
[12:57] <daf> SteveA: ok, then I'll stick to that format for this week's simmary
[12:58] <SteveA> ddaa: that is a function defined inside a method's scope, right?
[12:58] <ddaa> yes
[12:58] <SteveA> but, the function doesn't use any of the names available in the method's closure
[12:58] <ddaa> as you can see, it's just a helper for sort
[12:58] <SteveA> so, rather than define the function on each call to the method
[12:58] <SteveA> define the function as a staticmethod perhaps
[12:59] <ddaa> does not matter, the method is called only once per page
[12:59] <SteveA> it is confusing
[12:59] <ddaa> okay
[12:59] <ddaa> will make it staticmethod if such is your pleasure
[01:00] <SteveA> display_order looks like it could apply to other things
[01:00] <ddaa> such as?
[01:00] <SteveA> so maybe that should be at the class level too
[01:00] <SteveA> i don't know
[01:00] <SteveA> but, i expect you'd want to have things displayed in that order, and not another variation
[01:01] <ddaa> which class... not in Branch obviously, not in BranchView either because we are in BranchTargetView (which is a gross hack IMO, but sabdfl liked it that way).
[01:01] <SteveA> the reason that functions defined within methods are often confusing is that it isn't clear whether names in the encompassing namespace will be used inside that function
[01:01] <SteveA> whereas, as a separate function, the dependencies are clearer
[01:01] <SteveA> BranchView is okay
[01:01] <SteveA> or BranchTargetView
[01:02] <SteveA> either works
[01:02] <SteveA> i think it would end up in BranchView, and be imported into BranchTargetView, if it were in fact used widely
[01:02] <ddaa> hu
[01:03] <ddaa> Right, I'lll remember that, at the moment that would be needless indirection
[01:03] <SteveA> ok
[01:04] <mantas_> Hi all
[01:06] <SteveA> labas mantai
[01:07] <salgado> Kinnison, I think I need to add a pocket attribute to MirrorDistroReleaseSource, like we have on MirrorDistroArchRelease. do you have any objection?
[01:07] <Kinnison> Nope, sounds right
[01:08] <Kinnison> stub: I managed the surgery without needing DBA powahs I think, I'm just verifying now
[01:08] <SteveA> carlos: thanks for looking at the OOPS report and mailing the list about the rosetta ones, and their status.
[01:08] <carlos> np
[01:12] <mantas_> Someone could tell me what is pulse type at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[01:12] <mantas_> SteveA, labas
[01:13] <stub> Kinnison: ok
[01:13] <Kinnison> mantas_: use "pull" unless you have a reason to use otherwise
[01:15] <daf> Kinnison: should the page say so?
[01:15] <Kinnison> daf: I think salgado is still working on all the mirror stuff
[01:15] <Kinnison> salgado: are you changing the UI at all?
[01:17] <mantas_> Kinnison, hehe, could you tell me what could be the reasons to specify push there ?
[01:18] <Kinnison> mantas_: if launchpad was managing your archive then it could in theory push changes to the mirror
[01:18] <Kinnison> mantas_: this is not yet well defined
[01:20] <mantas_> Kinnison, thanks for info, maybe this info could be at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[01:20] <Kinnison> mantas_: Again, salgado is working on the mirror stuff right now so I suggest you ask him :-)
[01:21] <mantas_> salgado, hi, are you alive ?
[01:21] <mantas_> Btw, what is Pulse Source ?
[01:21] <carlos> cprov: hi, did you solved your testing problems?
[01:22] <Kinnison> mantas_: again, I think this isn't well defined. It's probably not worth your while trying to register mirrors with launchpad until we announce that it's ready
[01:24] <daf> was this page created before our code review process?
[01:24] <salgado> hi guys, I was just discussing some issues on the MirrorManagement spec with cprov
[01:24] <daf> (I suspect that we wouldn't get away with adding useless pages nowadays)
[01:25] <salgado> yes, the UI changed a bit in the branch I'm working on right now
[01:25] <salgado> daf, what page is that?
[01:26] <SteveA> mpt: in the oops summary page stylesheet, can we get rid of bullet points except in the TOC?
[01:26] <daf> ddaa: what's keeping your testsuite-lobotomy branch from being merged
[01:26] <daf> salgado: +newmirror
[01:27] <ddaa> daf: bzr bug in pqm AFAICT, it's in spiv's hands now
[01:27] <ddaa> daf: initially, the problem was a 64bit compatilibyt problem in buildbot that caused the merge failure
[01:27] <daf> fun!
[01:27] <ddaa> (which obviously I did not catch here)
[01:28] <ddaa> mh, I think I did not mention the burning hate I have for buildbot today
[01:28] <daf> don't bottle up your feelings
[01:28] <ddaa> So, my hate for buildbot burns of flame so bright and hot that it eclipses my screen and cooks my pizzas
[01:29] <ddaa> it's kinda handy for the pizza, though
[01:29] <salgado> daf, why is it useless?
[01:29] <salgado> is it broken?
[01:30] <daf> 12:22:18 <Kinnison> mantas_: again, I think this isn't well defined. It's
[01:30] <daf>                     probably not worth your while trying to register mirrors
[01:30] <daf>                     with launchpad until we announce that it's ready
[01:31] <salgado> well, the only thing we're not doing right now is to check what content is mirrored and how updated a mirror is
[01:31] <salgado> but even so, if you register a mirror now, it won't be a problem when we start doing these checks
[01:32] <SteveA> daf: mpool isn't expected to be at all launchpad meetings (for the summaries)
[01:32] <salgado> mantas_, ^
[01:32] <daf> SteveA: noted
[01:33] <Kinnison> salgado: My concern is that if we let people register mirrors now, we may have to change the content model before we can release and it might get confusing
[01:33] <Kinnison> salgado: if you think this isn't going to happen then I'll shut up and let people carry on :-)
[01:33] <SteveA> daf:  "Jordi to send spreadsheet to Steve" is missing the MeetingAction tag
[01:35] <salgado> Kinnison, the content model will change, and I'll have to write the migration scripts anyway, so I don't see a reason for telling people to not use it yet
[01:35] <daf> SteveA: summary and MeetingAgenda updated
[01:35] <SteveA> thanks
[01:37] <Kinnison> salgado: fair enough
[01:37] <Kinnison> mantas_: just ignore me :-)
[01:37] <daf> cprov: how are you getting on with my soyuz-ui branch?
[01:38] <cprov> daf: merged and maintained, no action from the reviewers yet. I propably need to resend the review request email, will do it later today
[01:39] <daf> cprov: cool
[01:39] <kiko> ahoy
[01:40] <Kinnison> ahoyhoy kiko
[01:40] <kiko> what's going on here?
[01:40] <daf> it wasn't me
[01:41] <SteveA> kiko: the oops stuff is looking pretty smooth now.  start here:  https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/oops.py
[01:41] <SteveA> click on a bug.
[01:41] <SteveA> click on an OOPS code in that bug
[01:42] <daf> 1 fixed, 2 in progress, 18 other
[01:42] <SteveA> matsubara, daf: you're doing a great job
[01:42] <daf> thanks Steve
[01:43] <kiko> nice!
[01:43] <matsubara> SteveA: thanks.
[01:44] <carlos> The bugs that are duplicates can be closed with 'Rejected' status, right?
[01:44] <daf> shortly, they'll have a special Duplicate stauts, I think
[01:45] <daf> I wouldn't bother changing the status of a dup
[01:45] <daf> unless you have some particular reason
[01:45] <kiko> carlos, daf's right
[01:46] <carlos> ok
[01:46] <kiko> daf, I saw that bug report on Oprah yesterday and she was full of big words to describe it!
[01:46] <carlos> daf: #3176 is closed and would be interesting to close all the duplicates we got
[01:46] <carlos> but we can wait ;-)
[01:56] <daf> announcing: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/wishlist.py
[01:58] <mantas_> salgado, Kinnison: so, when I'm registering new mirror then in Pulse Source I should write URL of primary download location ?
[02:01] <carlos> daf: how often are those pages updated?
[02:01] <daf> carlos: constantly
[02:01] <kiko> Pulse Source? 
[02:01] <mantas_> kiko, yes
[02:02] <kiko> does that term make any sense to you?
[02:02] <carlos> daf: then you have a bug on https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~daf/bugs/oops.py
[02:02] <mantas_> kiko, I don't know, but there is such entry - look at http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror ?
[02:02] <carlos> daf: #3176 has the 'fix committed' status since yesterday
[02:02] <mantas_> and I don't know what I should write there
[02:02] <carlos> but your page has the old status
[02:03] <daf> carlos: that's right :)
[02:03] <daf> carlos: the page includes fixed bugs
[02:03] <kiko> mantas_, actually, lauchpad.net is something completely different. :)
[02:03] <kiko> daf, can you <strike> fixed bugs?
[02:03] <kiko> or non-open bugs
[02:03] <carlos> daf: I'm talking about colors ;-)
[02:03] <carlos> it should be black instead of yellow
[02:04] <mantas_> kiko, ?
[02:04] <kiko> mpt, salgado: can you please review the terminology on http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+newmirror -- this pulse stuff is crazy
[02:04] <daf> carlos: you mean "fix released"?
[02:04] <kiko> mantas_, unfortunately I have no clue what it means. I suspect cprov and Kinnison might.
[02:04] <carlos> daf: right, sorry, I gave you the wrong status....
[02:04] <carlos> :-P
[02:04] <mantas_> kiko, :)
[02:04] <carlos> daf: it's on 'fix released' status since yesterday
[02:05] <daf> carlos: oh, right, it's pointed at staging
[02:07] <salgado> kiko, that pulse stuff thing needs to be documented in the spec. I added a question there but the answer was that it doesn't need to be documented
[02:07] <kiko> salgado, the pulse thing probably needs to be reworded
[02:07] <cprov> mantas_: basically pulse and probe are no working yet, but pulse is aim to be the mirror trigger url/method, which isn't yet well defined
[02:07] <kiko> or some text added telling me what the hell it is :)
[02:07] <salgado> yes, but in order to do that I need to know what it is. that's not clear in the spec
[02:08] <cprov> salgado: remove it from the UI for a while, so but don't get confused
[02:08] <mantas_> cprov: so, when I'm registering new mirror then Pulse Source I should leave empty now ?
[02:08] <cprov> mantas_: yes, leave it blank, the form should pass 
[02:08] <cprov> salgado: ^^^
[02:09] <cprov> salgado: or not ? don't remember if it is required.
[02:09] <salgado> it's required if you specify Pulse as the mirror type
[02:11] <cprov> salgado: you mean Pulse Type as 'Pull' or what ?
[02:12] <salgado> yes, that's what I meant. sorry
[02:12] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=spiv]  Allow admins and rosetta experts remove entries from the translation import queue. + tests (r3120: Carlos Perell Marn)
[02:12] <mantas_> but Kinnison told me, that I should use pulse type "pull"
[02:12] <cprov> salgado: it's ok, so mantas_ should add his mirror as 'push' for a while, correct ?
[02:13] <Kinnison> mantas_: You need to ignore everything I've said and go with what people are telling you now. I was mistaken when I was trying to help you :-)
[02:16] <cprov> Kinnison: no regret, the just-landed stuff still obscure, we can fix it improving form comments and maybe hidding some unused fields 
[02:16] <Kinnison> form comments would be helpful :-)
[02:16] <Kinnison> even for me :-)
[02:17] <kiko> particularly for me
[02:18] <Kinnison> pass damn you
[02:21] <ddaa> lifeless: you mentioned the sftp server required changes to the supermirror-pull-list.txt
[02:21] <ddaa> lifeless: can you quickly fill me up on that?
[02:21] <mantas_> Kinnison, cprov, salgado: thank you for info ;)
[02:22] <cprov> mantas_: you're welcome 
[02:22] <daf> ddaa: the verb is "fill ... in", not "fill ... up" :)
[02:22] <mantas_> cprov, you too ;)
[02:22] <ddaa> lifeless: can you quickly fill me in on that?
[02:22] <lifeless> ddaa: see the diff of spivs branch
[02:22] <ddaa> url?
[02:22] <cogumbreiro> is it possible to integrate the (gnome) bugzilla with malone?
[02:22] <lifeless> ddaa: pending reviews should have it
[02:24] <ddaa> actually, it's on the page, but it does not have a diff yet :(
[02:25] <carlos> see you later
[02:25] <cogumbreiro> what's the difference between a product and a project?
[02:26] <dholbach> People seem to want a slideshow-enabled wikipage for Malone. :-)
[02:26] <cogumbreiro> is rhythmbox a product or a project?
[02:26] <kiko> product
[02:26] <dholbach> malone bug 31034
[02:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31034 in tango-icon-theme "evolution shows wrong trash icon" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31034
[02:28] <kiko> daf, what happened to some of the bugs that just disappeared from the oops bugs page?
[02:28] <daf> kiko: just a second
[02:29] <mantas_> btw, when I will have permissions to register Baltix releases through http://lauchpad.net/distros/baltix/+addrelease ?
[02:29] <kiko> mantas_, not in the short term, but if you email launchpad-users I could do it for you
[02:29] <kiko> mantas_, however, I would like to know with carlos if that's safe -- carlos, do we currently do translation processing only for ubuntu?
[02:30] <daf> kiko: it's because I've temporarily pointed the script at staging
[02:30] <daf> kiko: I will point it back at production shortly
[02:30] <carlos> kiko: only for Ubuntu? no, Ubuntu and upstream
[02:30] <kiko> carlos, but not for other distros?
[02:31] <carlos> kiko: or are you talking about 'automatic' imports?
[02:31] <kiko> right
[02:31] <carlos> only for Ubuntu
[02:31] <kiko> I'm talking about the impact of adding a distrorelease for baltix, another distro.
[02:31] <kiko> carlos, okay, thanks.
[02:32] <carlos> kiko: well, if launchpad build the packages and use the same system Ubuntu uses... it shouldn't be a problem
[02:32] <carlos> (talking about pkgstriptranslations)
[02:34] <mantas_> baltix uses same packages like ubuntu, just some packages are backported from Ubuntu unstable and very few are from other, not ubuntu sources
[02:34] <Lathiat> ok can i search for the biild log for a package somehow?
[02:34] <Lathiat> tryign to find dapper/ctsims last upload
[02:35] <Lathiat> *build log
[02:35] <carlos> mantas_: but you build it by hand, right?
[02:38] <mantas_> carlos, yes, very few are builded manually, with dpkg-buildpackage - I have no other way, because I have no automatic build system :(
[03:08] <kiko> carlos, can you tell me about bug 2036?
[03:08] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2036 in rosetta "DistroRelease language page should show *all* templates" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2036
[03:08] <carlos> kiko: what do you want to know about it?
[03:09] <carlos> kiko: it has two problems;
[03:09] <carlos> 1.- Current content/approach is a big performance problem
[03:10] <carlos> 2.- It lacks entries due a bad SQL query that misses things
[03:11] <kiko> carlos, can you fix #2 in the short term?
[03:11] <kiko> would it take long?
[03:11] <carlos> kiko: I don't think it should take too long
[03:11] <carlos> but that page is still useless because #1
[03:11] <carlos> it fails to often
[03:12] <carlos> I could take a look on improve the performance with current approach at the same time
[03:12] <kiko> carlos, if you fix #2 I can look into the performance of the page. can you give me a URL?
[03:12] <kiko> or an oops
[03:13] <carlos> kiko: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/pt_BR
[03:13] <kiko> thank you
[03:13] <carlos> you are welcome
[03:13] <kiko> bummer man
[03:13] <kiko> it didn't :)
[03:14] <kiko> carlos, didn't we solve the do-not-use template problem?
[03:14] <carlos> kiko: not yet, we need to implement a way to remove the templates to stop using them
[03:14] <carlos> kiko: we are not creating new ones
[03:14] <carlos> that's the only thing done
[03:15] <carlos> but the old ones need to be handled
[03:16] <carlos> later
[03:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/29182 (Can't (r3121: Brad Bollenbach)
[03:32] <jbailey> Is there any sort of aliasing system for searches in launchpad?  Like, if I search for "powerpc" will it also search "ppc" ?
[03:44] <kiko> jbailey, no, there is not.
[03:44] <jbailey> kiko: Thanks.
[03:51] <dholbach> bradb, BjornT_: ping
[03:51] <salgado> in a few minutes
[03:51] <salgado> oops
[03:52] <bradb> dholbach: hi
[03:52] <dholbach> bradb, BjornT_: can I forward you two mails of a bug report, I received, which don't contain the information that is displayed on the web? (malone bug 30648) - it's fishy too, that there are just two of them, but it might be a spam-filtering/whatever issue as well
[03:53] <bradb> dholbach: sure
[03:53] <dholbach> bradb: done, thanks.
[03:55] <dholbach> bradb: forget it... it seems that I just received the two empty ones, which are on the web also... sorry for the noise
[03:55] <bradb> ok, no worries
[03:58] <dholbach> bradb: I just checked https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/desktop-bugs/2006-February/thread.html - just the two empty mails were sent
[03:58] <dholbach> bradb: so it was not a spam filter issue, but some kind of problem with launchpad
[03:58] <dholbach> (search for "no run" :))
[03:59] <ddaa> Wow! The gimp baz2bzr ETA is decreasing!
[03:59] <ddaa> about time, after running for ten days... about one more week left
[04:00] <bradb> dholbach: Thanks. I'll open a bug about this.
[04:00] <dholbach> bradb: merci beaucoup
[04:00] <bradb> bienvenue
[04:00] <dholbach> bradb: there seem to be entries missing in the bug activity log as well.
[04:01] <dholbach> (supposing that additional comments should be logged)
[04:01] <bradb> Comments don't get logged atm.
[04:01] <dholbach> Ah, right.
[04:03] <bradb> dholbach: bug 31059 for the emptiness
[04:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31059 in malone "Empty comments and empty emails generated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31059
[04:08] <LarstiQ> ddaa: is gimp the worst?
[04:08] <ddaa> yes
[04:09] <ddaa> there are couple of other conversions outstanding for various reasons, but gimp is the bigger and meaner.
[04:09] <ddaa> * biggest and meanest
[04:10] <ddaa> It's a bit annoying when after two days the ETA is 140 hours, and it's still the same 5 days laters...
[04:10] <daf> bug in the ETA code?
[04:10] <ddaa> bug in baz replay and old bzr commit code methink
[04:10] <ddaa> the ETA code is really trivial
[04:11] <Kinnison> should just report '1GE' when over 24 hours 
[04:11] <ddaa> GE?
[04:11] <Kinnison> geological era
[04:11] <ddaa> it's useful to know that something is likely to finish within a week
[04:11] <ddaa> at least, for my use case... admittedly, not all that common...
[04:13] <ddaa> though admittedly... you could s/hour/too long/ and s/day/too frickin' long/ if you want a "humane" use interface :)
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: I have code in my branch for -updates and some better -security behaviour following the last attempts
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: Along with (wait for it) comprehensive tests
[04:14] <Kinnison> kiko: once cprov gets back we'll look at rolling this out to ftpmaster
[04:18] <kiko> cool Kinnison 
[04:20] <Kinnison> nothing I fancy
[04:20] <kiko> !
[04:20] <Kinnison> kiko: I'll get on with the chroots for the -updates pockets
[04:20] <kiko> okay, cool
[04:20] <kiko> did you manage to see what happened to scott's uploads?
[04:21] <Kinnison> urgh no, not yet
[04:21] <Kinnison> I have an idea
[04:21] <Kinnison> but I need to verify it
[04:21] <kiko> okay.
[04:21] <Kinnison> I *think* he uploaded it twice inside the same five minutes
[04:21] <Kinnison> which might confuse process-upload
[04:21] <Kinnison> it's harmless but irritating
[04:21] <kiko> indeed.
[04:21] <Kinnison> chroots first, then I'll investigate that one
[04:21] <Keybuk> yeah, I uploaded the same source twice
[04:21] <Keybuk> with different diff.gz
[04:22] <Keybuk> it was the fact it seemed to get processed twice that was confusing
[04:22] <Kinnison> each upload is independant in the new world order
[04:22] <Kinnison> utterly independant
[04:23] <Keybuk> surely they're at least sorted by time, so the later one wins?
[04:23] <Kinnison> that's probable
[04:23] <Kinnison> which one won?
[04:23] <Kinnison> I'll admit I never catalogued the behavioural modes when faced with developers doing odd things
[04:23] <Keybuk> it looks like the later one did, based on the diff.gz-in-the-archive
[04:23] <bradb> salgado-lunch: Did you ask stub to cherry pick the patch that added "_table = BinaryAndSourcePackageName"? It would fix a rather nasty bug on the filebug page, but I can't figure out which revno that fix went in on.
[04:24] <Kinnison> cool
[04:34] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: Fixes https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/31005 (ValueError on bugtask traversal) r=kiko (r3122: Diogo Matsubara)
[04:38] <daf> matsubara-lunch: first merge to RF? :)
[04:40] <kiko> could be :)
[05:08] <raphink> hi there
[05:09] <raphink> not sure this is the right place to report
[05:09] <raphink> the UserPreferences in the Ubuntu wiki don't work
[05:09] <raphink> validating the form doesn't update the data
[05:09] <raphink> tried on konqueror & firefox, on various ubuntu boxes
[05:09] <raphink> if anyone can confirm : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences
[05:10] <daf> is this bug #3987?
[05:10] <Ubugtu> malone bug 3987 in launchpad "Launchpad wiki UserPreferences causes mismatched passwords" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3987
[05:10] <daf> elmo: ping
[05:10] <raphink> hmm seems so saf
[05:10] <raphink> daf
[05:11] <raphink> yes that's it
[05:12] <daf> I'll try and find out what happened to Andrew's fix
[05:12] <raphink> I've updated the bug daf 
[05:13] <daf> thanks
[05:15] <matsubara> daf: yes
[05:15] <daf> matsubara: congratulations
[05:16] <matsubara> daf: thanks :)
[05:44] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[05:45] <kiko> daf, can't you fix dilys?
[05:50] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[05:50] <daf> hmm
[05:56] <kiko> bradb?
[05:57] <salgado> SteveA, around?
[06:02] <kiko> salgado, SteveA's off for the afternoon. how may I help you?
[06:02] <kiko> bradbeeeeeee?
[06:03] <salgado> kiko, I need to test the mirror prober, and for that I think I need some zope magic to make all http requests on a path under, let's say, /foo/ to return a 200 OK
[06:04] <kiko> salgado, just build something on apache at async.
[06:04] <kiko> dredg, tell me about your problems
[06:05] <dredg> kiko: on launchpad my wiki url points to NiallSheridan3. When i try to change it to 'NiallSheridan' I get told that "The Ubuntu WikiName NiallSheridan is already registered by Niall Sheridan."
[06:05] <dredg> looks like a merge of some things created a dupe somewhere
[06:06] <salgado> kiko, I need to make proper doctests/unittests for it. for manual testing I don't need anything
[06:07] <kiko> dredg, so you merged an account but the old wiki name is still taken?
[06:07] <SteveA> salgado: use zeca
[06:07] <kiko> or is the problem that you have yet another unmerged account
[06:08] <SteveA> salgado: talk to celso about how he did it
[06:08] <salgado> SteveA, cool, I'll do it. thanks :)
[06:10] <dredg> kiko: i'm not sure. i created the NiallSheridan wiki page a long time ago, and created a launchpad account sometime afterwards. this was before the wiki was changed to moin
[06:10] <kiko> let's do some investigating.
[06:11] <ddaa> when pqm works well, it's pretty nice to use it as a test runner
[06:11] <dredg> kiko: my best guess is that launchpad thinks there is a few of me based on email address or something. it's hard to tell :)
[06:11] <ddaa> write quick patch, send to pqm, fix test, rinse, repeat
[06:12] <kiko> dredg, that is definitely possible. care to /msg me your name and candidate email addresses?
[06:13] <ddaa> SteveA: if you want some reading,  I sent you the draft for the bzr publishing section, that I've been writing most of yesterday and today
[06:13] <SteveA> ddaa: nice.  i'll read it tomorrow.
[06:13] <kiko> bradbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[06:14] <ddaa> SteveA: -ENOWEEKEND?
[06:14] <SteveA> ddaa: i arranged with kiko to switch this afternoon for saturday afternoon
[06:15] <kiko> yes, today is officially saturday from now on, and tomorrow will be friday.
[06:15] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix a bug from the Launchpad Errors report that was causing OOPS-40A169 (r3123: Brad Bollenbach)
[06:15] <kiko> mdz_?
[06:15] <ddaa> SteveA: there's also some open issues in the signing draft I sent yesterday
[06:15] <daf> kiko: better?
[06:15] <kiko> daf, thanks :)
[06:16] <ddaa> okay, da next one is how to do new imports... in particular howzdat gonna work for non-main branches...
[06:17] <ddaa> man, writing implementation specs is hard work
[06:18] <mdz> kiko: laptop testing
[06:20] <daf> bradb: does 40A169 have a bug?
[06:21] <kiko> salgado: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-02-10/C400
[06:21] <kiko> salgado, fixed?
[06:22] <salgado> kiko, yes, already in rocketfuel
[06:22] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[06:23] <kiko> thanks salgado 
[06:24] <ddaa> shit, the movie I wanted to see is four months old...
[06:25] <ddaa> that's an annoyingly long lapse...
[06:36] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix bug # 31039, properly escaping source names before using regexp replace in changelog linkification, added new sampledata and tests for sourcepackage view classes (r3124: Celso Providelo)
[06:37] <kiko> cool
[06:37] <kiko> go cprov go
[06:50] <bradb> daf: Not that I know of. If it did, I would have mentioned it in the merge summary.
[06:50] <bradb> Just trying to knock off Malone problems appearing in the error reports.
[06:53] <ddaa> bye guys, going for a movie, I'll be back for one one after that (in about three hours)
[06:58] <kiko> bradb, I need to talk to you
[06:59] <bradb> kiko: sure
[07:34] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=SteveA]  change ordering of categories in branch listings (r3125: David Allouche)
[07:49] <carlos> see you on Monday!
[08:56] <kiko> bradb, can I assign bug 29174 to matsubara?
[08:56] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29174 in malone "Distribution CVE report assumes bugtask.sourcepackagename != None" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29174
[08:56] <kiko> say yes
[08:56] <bradb> i was already working on it, hence In Progress.
[08:57] <kiko> ok
[08:57] <kiko> then I won't
[08:57] <kiko> but I would prefer you didn't spend time on trivialities if that bug is indeed trivial
[08:58] <bradb> it's trivial. i pass these types of bug on in future
[08:58] <bradb> kiko: Skype should be ready now
[08:58] <kiko> thanks
[08:59] <bradb> What's your skype username?
[08:59] <kiko> kiko-async
[09:00] <bradb> "Failed: Misc error". How Launchpadesque!
[09:01] <kiko> failed, Reason unknown
[09:01] <kiko> I think your skype is bustage
[09:01] <bradb> I've used it with SteveA a few times
[09:02] <kiko> I'll call you
[09:21] <LarstiQ> bradb: shouldn't that be a Mic error?
[09:40] <Kinnison> ciau all
[09:54] <matsubara>  um mtodo como esse no precisa ter docstring?
[09:54] <matsubara> hmm
[10:13] <mdke> Kinnison, was that a "hi" ciao, or a "bye" ciao?
[10:13] <AlinuxOS> mdke, It's the same
[10:13] <mdke> AlinuxOS, i want to know if he's gone or not
[10:13] <AlinuxOS> It deppends if you live or you meet :)
[10:13] <mdke> i know what "ciao" means >_<
[10:14] <mdke> if he's gone, does anyone else know if the breezy-updates thing is sorted out yet?
[10:14] <AlinuxOS> mdke, think that he is gone :)
[10:20] <AlinuxOS> people is there some alternatives to launchpad ?
[10:21] <mdke> AlinuxOS, for what?
[10:21] <AlinuxOS> for translating
[10:21] <AlinuxOS> on line
[10:21] <mdke> boh
[10:24] <SteveA> bradb, kiko: echo123 in skype to test
[10:26] <kiko> SteveA, skype SUCKS :)
[10:27] <kiko> SteveA, so, do you have time for a quick phone call?
[10:27] <kiko> I want to talk to you about something
[10:30] <AlinuxOS> kiko, Ekiga rules then :)
[10:30] <kiko> heh
[10:37] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/29174 (Distribution CVE report assumes bugtask.sourcepackagename != None) (r3126: Brad Bollenbach)
[10:53] <LarstiQ> lp +branch reports that branches are scanned at least daily, am I right this is currently not true?
[11:02] <LarstiQ> eek!
[11:03] <LarstiQ> https://launchpad.net/products/0.39 and https://launchpad.net/products/0.38
[11:08] <SteveA> kiko: in the next 5 minutes, yes
[11:27] <ddaa> LarstiQ: that's currently true as far as I know, but I have seen less error report from the branch puller script lately...
[11:27] <ddaa> one issue at the moment is that there is no reporting about when the last pull occured, whether it succeeded, and so on
[11:27] <ddaa> so you cannot really tell whether there is a problem and where it lies
[11:28] <LarstiQ> right
[11:28] <ddaa> I believe jamesh is going to work on that pretty soon, since lifeless consider that lack of reporting will cause a degradation in service to rcs imports, and I have not yet found something more urgent for jamesh to do
[11:29] <ddaa> though I have an error reporting system (not error visible) of my own I'd need him to help on soon
[11:29] <kiko> LarstiQ, could you report that to launchpad-users? I can get stub to clean it up on monday..
[11:30] <ddaa> quite low traffic ATM, it as not really taken off yet
[11:31] <LarstiQ> I'll subscribe then
[11:31] <ddaa> kiko: do we have a gmane feed for launchpad users btw?
[11:31] <kiko> probably not yet ddaa 
[11:32] <ddaa> mh... I guess I should suggest that to stub, since anyway the gmane folks end up asking the list admin.
[11:35] <kiko> you might propose to gmane and then tell stub to accept?
[11:36] <LarstiQ> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users claims kiko also has a hand in it
[11:37] <kiko> oh my god
[11:37] <kiko> so it is :)
[11:38] <lifeless> ddaa: jamesh is already working on it
[11:40] <ddaa> LarstiQ: bad boy, you scared him away!
[11:40] <ddaa> lifeless: good to hear
[11:41] <LarstiQ> ddaa: ah well, you'll have to wait till monday then
[11:41] <ddaa> I do not have a direct stake, since as a devel I have to be subscribed to the users mailing list as well.
[11:42] <ddaa> it's just that I came to be quite fond of gmane, news client have decades of experience in lurking technology