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| bashgeek | hi | 02:02 |
|---|---|---|
| bashgeek | is there any installation guide to install ubuntu on a remote system via. rescue console? | 02:02 |
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| troy | good day folks | 02:47 |
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| ubijtsa2 | fabbione: no worries.. | 08:22 |
| fabbione | morning | 08:22 |
| fabbione | i am not worried :) | 08:22 |
| fabbione | what' s up? | 08:22 |
| ubijtsa2 | I was going to ask you about setting a hard stack limit in /etc/security/limits.conf | 08:23 |
| ubijtsa2 | testing it last night though showed there being no difference in memory usage on a freshly booted system | 08:24 |
| fabbione | hmmm i am not too happy about changing these defaults | 08:24 |
| ubijtsa2 | it had been suggested to me it could make as much difference as 100MB on a full Gnome desktop.. | 08:24 |
| ubijtsa2 | the default of the system seems to be allocating 8MB of stack, and lowering that to 512kB was the suggestion | 08:25 |
| ubijtsa2 | as it turns out, it probably will not make that much difference.. hence the 'no worries' comment :) | 08:26 |
| fabbione | nope | 08:26 |
| fabbione | that's just wrong | 08:26 |
| fabbione | that's not the default alloc on the stack. | 08:27 |
| fabbione | it's max amount of stack a user can allocate | 08:27 |
| fabbione | if you hit the limit, the process is killed | 08:27 |
| fabbione | so something like that will just break in some corner cases | 08:28 |
| fabbione | = BAD | 08:28 |
| ubijtsa2 | Mmhmm.. I wanted to ask you about it last night, but while rebooting I encountered oddities with zeroconf | 08:28 |
| ubijtsa2 | hence why I was not back on IRC when you replied | 08:28 |
| ubijtsa2 | still, half a meg of stack should be more than adequate.. | 08:30 |
| fabbione | -> REJECTED | 08:31 |
| fabbione | it breaks stuff in corner cases | 08:31 |
| fabbione | and you don't want that | 08:31 |
| fabbione | 8MB is more than fine | 08:32 |
| fabbione | and again, it is a limit | 08:32 |
| ubijtsa2 | I understand.. | 08:32 |
| fabbione | it's not allocated by default | 08:32 |
| neuralis | fabbione: long time no see | 08:37 |
| neuralis | fabbione: how are things? | 08:37 |
| fabbione | hey neuralis | 08:38 |
| fabbione | i am fine and you? | 08:38 |
| neuralis | pretty good, moved back to cambridge a week ago, horribly busy | 08:46 |
| fabbione | i believe that | 08:46 |
| neuralis | how's server-candy coming along? | 08:47 |
| fabbione | we are at 2/3 more or less | 08:47 |
| neuralis | nice! | 08:47 |
| fabbione | there are things that needs to be done | 08:47 |
| fabbione | but we are getting there | 08:47 |
| fabbione | we won't manage to get /etc in RCS | 08:48 |
| fabbione | but otherwise we are okish | 08:48 |
| neuralis | hmm, too complicated or other problems? | 08:48 |
| fabbione | mainly the changes in bzr | 08:48 |
| fabbione | bzr is changing too fast to be good for 5 years | 08:49 |
| fabbione | and i didn't want the overhead of other RCS | 08:49 |
| neuralis | yeah, good decision | 08:49 |
| fabbione | there are also the 3rdy part tools that need packaging or something | 08:49 |
| fabbione | assuming we can redistribute them | 08:49 |
| fabbione | but that's like a couple of days of work | 08:49 |
| neuralis | although, for just versioning /etc, bzr 0.7 would probably be just fine | 08:50 |
| fabbione | my point is that the bzr backend is changing fast | 08:50 |
| fabbione | so let say we ship 0.7 in dapper | 08:50 |
| fabbione | it might not be compatible with dapper+1 | 08:50 |
| fabbione | figure in 5 years | 08:50 |
| fabbione | so you might not be able to use the repos for cross merging | 08:50 |
| fabbione | and that's one of the most interesting features about having all /etc in RCS | 08:51 |
| neuralis | right. | 08:51 |
| fabbione | cherry-pick this change from the test-server... boom | 08:51 |
| neuralis | well, bzr should stabilize quite a bit by dapper+1, so hopefully we can do it then. | 08:51 |
| fabbione | did you hear anything from the cluster guys? | 08:52 |
| neuralis | nope. | 08:52 |
| fabbione | i guess they won't match our deadlines | 08:52 |
| fabbione | oh well.. we will work it out for dapper+1 hopefully | 08:53 |
| neuralis | it sounds like they'll still put out openssi packages for dapper, just not through ubuntu channels | 08:53 |
| fabbione | that's sick.. but ok | 08:53 |
| fabbione | if they prefer that way | 08:53 |
| neuralis | they don't, but there just wasn't enouh time to meet UVF | 08:53 |
| neuralis | *enough | 08:53 |
| fabbione | well they need to meet Feature Freeze | 08:53 |
| fabbione | that's in 13 days | 08:54 |
| ajmitch | bzr guys are hoping to have 0.8 in dapper, with the understanding that there be some stability in branch formats & API (though probably not for 5 years) | 08:54 |
| neuralis | ajmitch: they're aiming for 6-12 months. | 08:54 |
| ajmitch | not nearly enough for a 5-year distro support | 08:54 |
| neuralis | fabbione: to be honest, i think it's better for ubuntu not to have it in officially for dapper. it's not stable enough. | 08:54 |
| fabbione | neuralis: ok | 08:54 |
| neuralis | fabbione: so let them put out packages separately and get testing, and we can look at official inclusion for dapper+1 | 08:55 |
| fabbione | neuralis: right, but we will land in the exact same problem | 08:55 |
| fabbione | dapper+1 won't have .15 | 08:55 |
| fabbione | probably .18 or something | 08:55 |
| fabbione | if the openssi guys don't start tracking recent kernels, it will be the same as Xen for hoary/breezy/dapper... | 08:56 |
| fabbione | anyway i need to reboot my ws | 08:56 |
| fabbione | brb | 08:56 |
| neuralis | ok | 08:56 |
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| fabbione | re | 09:06 |
| neuralis | fabbione: around feature freeze, i'd like to chat with you briefly about everything that went into server, to make sure i don't forget anything | 09:13 |
| fabbione | sure | 09:14 |
| fabbione | assuming i can remember all of it :) | 09:15 |
| fabbione | but i think we should chat about it today | 09:15 |
| fabbione | so if there is something i did overlook | 09:15 |
| fabbione | there might be time to get it done | 09:15 |
| neuralis | sure | 09:15 |
| neuralis | would you like to do it now or later? | 09:15 |
| fabbione | i just need about 20 minutes to finish something | 09:15 |
| neuralis | sure. ping me when you're back. | 09:16 |
| fabbione | yup | 09:16 |
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| fabbione | re | 09:42 |
| fabbione | neuralis: still around? | 09:42 |
| neuralis | fabbione: yep | 09:44 |
| fabbione | ok where do you want to start? | 09:45 |
| neuralis | i just went over the list of all dapper specs | 09:45 |
| neuralis | relevant to servers are HardwareTestingCatalog, CommunityServerHardwareTesting, KernelServerRoadmap, TestingServerHardware, ServerCandy, UbuntuClusters | 09:46 |
| neuralis | we should probably talk only about the last two | 09:46 |
| fabbione | KernelServerRoadmap is implemented | 09:46 |
| fabbione | in terms that we have the kernels | 09:46 |
| fabbione | we need to make them the defatuls for server CD | 09:46 |
| fabbione | and probably do some more config tuning | 09:47 |
| fabbione | nothing really fancy is left there | 09:47 |
| neuralis | right, i just want to find out specifically what was changed in them, although i suppose i can just look at the .config | 09:47 |
| fabbione | basically -server doesn't have PREEMPT, HZ=100 | 09:47 |
| fabbione | and a bunch of modules have been removed from -desktop | 09:47 |
| neuralis | sound, DRM removed, i imagine | 09:48 |
| neuralis | eah | 09:48 |
| neuralis | *yeah | 09:48 |
| fabbione | like for example OCFS2 and GFS | 09:48 |
| fabbione | no, sound is there | 09:48 |
| fabbione | you might want a streaming server "use case" | 09:48 |
| fabbione | but clearly you don't need OCFS2 on your workstation | 09:48 |
| neuralis | right. | 09:48 |
| fabbione | -server on i386 is only 686+SMP | 09:49 |
| fabbione | it has basic numa support | 09:49 |
| fabbione | -server-bigiron is pushed to the limit of 64CPU or something | 09:49 |
| fabbione | with bignuma support | 09:49 |
| neuralis | got it. | 09:49 |
| fabbione | Ben's definition of -server-bigiron was really good | 09:49 |
| neuralis | the one posted to -devel? i remember reading it :) | 09:50 |
| fabbione | yeah that one | 09:50 |
| neuralis | okay. so that gets rid of kernel, and i know what's been going on with the three server specs, so let's talk about server-candy and ubuntu-clusters. | 09:50 |
| fabbione | yup | 09:51 |
| fabbione | for Cluster i only managed to keep GFS and OCFS2 updated to a decent level | 09:51 |
| neuralis | okay. slurm didn't make it in due to licencing issues, correct? | 09:51 |
| fabbione | slurm is GPL | 09:52 |
| fabbione | but it links with ssl | 09:52 |
| neuralis | but links against openssl | 09:52 |
| neuralis | right | 09:52 |
| fabbione | and i never got around to ask all upstreams for permissions | 09:52 |
| fabbione | or try to port it to gnutls | 09:52 |
| neuralis | i think asking for permission is impractical; probably too many contributors | 09:53 |
| maswan | how about torque then? | 09:53 |
| fabbione | neuralis: i agree | 09:53 |
| maswan | slurm seems to have less licensing issues though, just a gnutls port.. | 09:53 |
| fabbione | neuralis: there are also tons of libs that slurm uses.. they have the same issue | 09:53 |
| maswan | I got rather confused trying to read the torque license | 09:54 |
| fabbione | maswan: i don't remember testing torque.. neuralis did you? | 09:54 |
| neuralis | fabbione: no, there were reasons why we didn't look at it | 09:54 |
| fabbione | i don't remember tbh | 09:54 |
| neuralis | fabbione: i think it's very non-free | 09:55 |
| fabbione | ok | 09:55 |
| maswan | neuralis: I'm not so sure, acutally. There are a bunch of non-free clauses, but they were time-limited and expired in 2002 or something like that. | 09:55 |
| neuralis | maswan: i'll take a closer look, but i doubt we can do this in time for dapper. | 09:56 |
| neuralis | maswan: also, slurm seems to be a much more accepted solution, so i'd really rather that we get that in. | 09:57 |
| neuralis | maswan: the people who really need a resource manager on dapper are few enough that they probably don't mind deploying one by hand. | 09:57 |
| neuralis | fabbione: let's continue | 09:58 |
| fabbione | yup | 09:58 |
| neuralis | fabbione: drbd, ganglia, lvs? | 09:58 |
| fabbione | we can look at ganglia and lvs | 09:58 |
| fabbione | that's just question of promoting them to main | 09:58 |
| neuralis | right | 09:59 |
| fabbione | for drdb.. dunno.. we have plenty of these solutions already | 09:59 |
| neuralis | hmm. examples? | 09:59 |
| fabbione | aoe, gnbd, nbd... | 09:59 |
| fabbione | is there something really special about drdb that others don't have? | 10:00 |
| neuralis | nbd just lets you use a remote disk locally. isn't that correct? | 10:01 |
| fabbione | yes | 10:01 |
| fabbione | like aoe or gnbd | 10:01 |
| neuralis | fabbione: right. that's not what drbd is for. | 10:02 |
| fabbione | what does drdb does in short | 10:02 |
| fabbione | ? | 10:02 |
| neuralis | fabbione: drbd is network raid1. it gives you actual drive replication over the network. | 10:02 |
| neuralis | in realtime. | 10:02 |
| fabbione | ok | 10:03 |
| fabbione | than we want it | 10:03 |
| fabbione | is the code stable? | 10:03 |
| neuralis | it's not changing much, and it works solidly in heavy production. | 10:03 |
| fabbione | ok | 10:04 |
| fabbione | do you have an url handy? | 10:04 |
| neuralis | there is a kernel module component, obviously. is that a problem? | 10:04 |
| neuralis | http://drbd.org | 10:04 |
| fabbione | i might as well get it done today | 10:04 |
| fabbione | no | 10:04 |
| fabbione | well .. it depends of course on how intrusive this thing is | 10:04 |
| neuralis | it's relatively isolated, i believe. | 10:05 |
| fabbione | i will check | 10:05 |
| fabbione | now i am almost a git guru :) | 10:05 |
| neuralis | :-D | 10:05 |
| neuralis | it should, in theory, apply cleanly to .15. | 10:06 |
| fabbione | yeah | 10:06 |
| fabbione | we need to see if it works even if applied :) | 10:06 |
| neuralis | right. | 10:06 |
| fabbione | ok next.. | 10:07 |
| fabbione | i guess there is no more for Cluster | 10:07 |
| neuralis | okay, will you pursue the promotion of keepalived, ipvsadm, ganglia, drbd0.7-utils to main? | 10:08 |
| fabbione | do we need keepalived? | 10:09 |
| fabbione | we didn't mention it in the spec | 10:09 |
| neuralis | fabbione: yes, we did; it's part of LVS | 10:09 |
| fabbione | oh right | 10:09 |
| fabbione | i missed the () | 10:09 |
| neuralis | np | 10:09 |
| fabbione | i think i can manage to ask for promotion.. | 10:10 |
| fabbione | i am sort of utterly overloaded | 10:10 |
| neuralis | do promotion reports need to be filed, or is it just a matter of asking? | 10:10 |
| fabbione | we need to fill the forms | 10:11 |
| neuralis | by when? | 10:12 |
| fabbione | there is no real deadline for it | 10:12 |
| fabbione | but it would be better if we can at least test the packages before we do so | 10:12 |
| neuralis | right. i'm almost totally unavailable until march; is there anyone else on the server team we can get to do the reports? | 10:13 |
| fabbione | <- | 10:13 |
| fabbione | or infinity | 10:14 |
| fabbione | well actually | 10:14 |
| fabbione | everybody can do the report | 10:14 |
| fabbione | but it would be better if that somebody is a known source and could test the pkgs as well | 10:15 |
| fabbione | it will spare pitti the time to review it again | 10:15 |
| neuralis | why don't we get one or two of the 12 ubuntu-server guys to write the reports, and you or infinity can test the packages | 10:15 |
| fabbione | we can try.. do you want to write a mail to -server asking for it? | 10:16 |
| neuralis | (have most of the ubuntu-server guys actually done something for ubuntu server? writing server specs or doing some actual ubuntu-server work should be a prerequisite for joining, i think.) | 10:16 |
| neuralis | fabbione: yes, i'll take care of it. if we don't hear back in a few days, i'll get back in touch with you about it. | 10:16 |
| fabbione | ok | 10:17 |
| neuralis | ok, shall we move on to server-candy? | 10:17 |
| fabbione | yup | 10:20 |
| neuralis | server test suite (really burn-in suite) on the cd. i think benc is assigned to work on this. do you know if there's been progress? | 10:21 |
| fabbione | no progress that i know of | 10:21 |
| fabbione | i think it was assigned to somebody else... | 10:21 |
| fabbione | anyway | 10:21 |
| fabbione | i doubt that will ever happen | 10:21 |
| neuralis | why's that? | 10:21 |
| fabbione | because i haven't seen progress so far | 10:22 |
| fabbione | and there isn't much time left for it | 10:22 |
| maswan | neuralis: Sure. slurm also seems much cleaner, torque has lots of cruft. | 10:22 |
| neuralis | maswan: yes. | 10:23 |
| fabbione | Third party software inclusion is like i said above | 10:23 |
| fabbione | we got a list that needs investigation | 10:24 |
| fabbione | together with mdy | 10:24 |
| fabbione | and packaging | 10:24 |
| neuralis | fabbione: hm. well, if we can include stress and iperf on the cd, writing a totally simple script to run them isn't a big deal. | 10:24 |
| neuralis | we can then build a real interface for dapper+1. | 10:24 |
| fabbione | neuralis: are they in main or universe? | 10:24 |
| neuralis | universe, we haven't needed them in main before. | 10:25 |
| fabbione | hmm ok | 10:25 |
| fabbione | that means that the machine can be stress tested only after installation | 10:25 |
| fabbione | ok let's keep this as a point.. | 10:26 |
| neuralis | they're both tiny packages; do you think it'd be a problem to promote them to main? | 10:26 |
| fabbione | i don't think that's an issue | 10:26 |
| fabbione | i am more thinking of: "Hey i installed -server and the stress tools crash my box... wtf" | 10:26 |
| fabbione | it would be more useful to be able to test the box before | 10:27 |
| fabbione | like for instance.. from the live CD | 10:27 |
| neuralis | we were talking about having this on the -server install cd, no? | 10:27 |
| fabbione | yes | 10:27 |
| fabbione | we can ship them | 10:27 |
| neuralis | you should be able to hit F<something> on the install screen to drop into shell and launch a script that runs the burn-in suite | 10:27 |
| fabbione | yes but to run something that's in a .deb you need to install it first | 10:28 |
| fabbione | in d-i you need the udeb | 10:28 |
| fabbione | that's probably a day of work to get it done | 10:28 |
| neuralis | can we get that in for dapper? | 10:28 |
| fabbione | i dunno.. i don't think i will have the time | 10:29 |
| neuralis | sorry, let me just make sure i'm understanding this right | 10:29 |
| fabbione | sure.. | 10:29 |
| neuralis | afaik, we already ship a recovery mode on the cd that drops us into the shell | 10:29 |
| fabbione | yes | 10:29 |
| neuralis | if we provide stress and iperf as simple binaries available from that shell, problem solved, no? | 10:30 |
| fabbione | but that assumes that your system is already installed with ubuntu | 10:30 |
| fabbione | my understanding was that the test suite should run before | 10:30 |
| neuralis | ah! | 10:30 |
| neuralis | i didn't know the recovery mode required an ubuntu installation; that's not how the debian cds work, i believe | 10:30 |
| fabbione | it's the same infrastructure | 10:30 |
| fabbione | well | 10:30 |
| fabbione | hold on | 10:30 |
| neuralis | sure. | 10:31 |
| fabbione | the recovery mode is able to mount / | 10:31 |
| fabbione | it doesn't check if it is Debian or Ubuntu or RedHat | 10:31 |
| fabbione | my problem is to ship the binaries in the rescue mode | 10:31 |
| maswan | but you can also get a shell without recovery mode, just a plain busybox shell without any mounted / | 10:31 |
| fabbione | maswan: that too | 10:31 |
| fabbione | that's why i am mentioning shipping the binaries in rescue mode | 10:32 |
| fabbione | they need to be available in d-i | 10:32 |
| neuralis | fabbione: okay, now we're on the same page. should i e-mail infinity or benc and see if they have the time to roll them into the appropriate udeb? | 10:32 |
| fabbione | works for me | 10:32 |
| fabbione | whatever doesn't involve me to add stuff to my TODO list is OK | 10:33 |
| neuralis | :) let's continue - 3rd party /vendor software inclusion. you have the list, how much do you think will get done? | 10:33 |
| fabbione | it depends from the licence of this stuff | 10:34 |
| fabbione | and how much mdy can convince vendors to allow us to redistribute | 10:34 |
| neuralis | okay. mdy is working on that, i assume? when do we expect to know? | 10:34 |
| fabbione | no idea | 10:35 |
| fabbione | he is in Japan or somewhere around there | 10:35 |
| neuralis | ah. okay, i'll ask about it again closer to the end of the month, or e-mail him. | 10:36 |
| fabbione | ok | 10:36 |
| fabbione | point him to the page on the wiki | 10:36 |
| fabbione | i am pretty sure i told him | 10:36 |
| neuralis | is there a separate page other than ServerCandy? | 10:36 |
| neuralis | yes, found it | 10:36 |
| fabbione | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerExtApps | 10:36 |
| neuralis | ok, moving on, central snakeoil stuff was worked on during the distrosprint, how far did we get there? | 10:37 |
| fabbione | we do have the basic ssl-cert infrastructure | 10:37 |
| fabbione | i already migrated a bunch of servers | 10:37 |
| fabbione | there are a few left | 10:37 |
| fabbione | that should be finished by end of next week | 10:37 |
| fabbione | infinity is to cleanup ssl-cert to be nicer | 10:37 |
| neuralis | sounds good. i'll ask again about details in ~10 days. | 10:38 |
| neuralis | md5 checker: still blocking on elmo/admins? | 10:38 |
| fabbione | yes | 10:39 |
| fabbione | the code is there and i tested it locally | 10:39 |
| fabbione | works for me | 10:39 |
| fabbione | that's all i know | 10:39 |
| fabbione | /etc we already discussed | 10:40 |
| neuralis | should i ping the admins, and if so, who specifically? | 10:40 |
| fabbione | nah | 10:40 |
| fabbione | i am on their necks almost every day | 10:40 |
| fabbione | so is mdz | 10:40 |
| neuralis | ok, sounds good | 10:40 |
| neuralis | i think that's all. did we miss anything? | 10:41 |
| fabbione | so i think that generally we look good | 10:41 |
| neuralis | yes, we're in very good shape. | 10:41 |
| fabbione | seed management, but that's something that needs to be done step by step | 10:41 |
| fabbione | and we already discussed most of it already | 10:41 |
| fabbione | there is stuff i want to kick out of server cd | 10:41 |
| fabbione | and i am waiting for Kamion to merge the -server seeds into the standard branch | 10:41 |
| neuralis | right | 10:42 |
| fabbione | and that's about it i think | 10:42 |
| neuralis | great. thanks for your time! i'll send out the e-mails we talked about and follow up on loose ends later. | 10:43 |
| fabbione | perfect | 10:43 |
| fabbione | thanks to you | 10:43 |
| neuralis | sure. one final question -- are we planning to include the md5 checker in a special mode on the server cd? e.g. do you have an udeb ready, or are we taking a different approach? | 10:44 |
| fabbione | it's already integrated into rescue mode | 10:45 |
| neuralis | rock. | 10:45 |
| neuralis | okay, i have everything i need, and i'll talk to you soon. cheers. | 10:45 |
| neuralis | (4:45AM here, time to get some sleep.) | 10:46 |
| fabbione | night :) | 10:46 |
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| === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
| === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
| === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
| === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
| === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
| === hunger_ [n=tobias@p54A6395B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-server | ||
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