=== fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === bashgeek [n=daniel@xdsl-213-168-121-2.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-server [02:02] hi [02:02] is there any installation guide to install ubuntu on a remote system via. rescue console? === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === troy [n=troy@wnpgmb01dc2-31-205.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-server [02:47] good day folks === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === sls [n=stephans@mail.farorbit.com] has joined #ubuntu-server === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-server [08:22] fabbione: no worries.. [08:22] morning [08:22] i am not worried :) [08:22] what' s up? [08:23] I was going to ask you about setting a hard stack limit in /etc/security/limits.conf [08:24] testing it last night though showed there being no difference in memory usage on a freshly booted system [08:24] hmmm i am not too happy about changing these defaults [08:24] it had been suggested to me it could make as much difference as 100MB on a full Gnome desktop.. [08:25] the default of the system seems to be allocating 8MB of stack, and lowering that to 512kB was the suggestion [08:26] as it turns out, it probably will not make that much difference.. hence the 'no worries' comment :) [08:26] nope [08:26] that's just wrong [08:27] that's not the default alloc on the stack. [08:27] it's max amount of stack a user can allocate [08:27] if you hit the limit, the process is killed [08:28] so something like that will just break in some corner cases [08:28] = BAD [08:28] Mmhmm.. I wanted to ask you about it last night, but while rebooting I encountered oddities with zeroconf [08:28] hence why I was not back on IRC when you replied [08:30] still, half a meg of stack should be more than adequate.. [08:31] -> REJECTED [08:31] it breaks stuff in corner cases [08:31] and you don't want that [08:32] 8MB is more than fine [08:32] and again, it is a limit [08:32] I understand.. [08:32] it's not allocated by default [08:37] fabbione: long time no see [08:37] fabbione: how are things? [08:38] hey neuralis [08:38] i am fine and you? [08:46] pretty good, moved back to cambridge a week ago, horribly busy [08:46] i believe that [08:47] how's server-candy coming along? [08:47] we are at 2/3 more or less [08:47] nice! [08:47] there are things that needs to be done [08:47] but we are getting there [08:48] we won't manage to get /etc in RCS [08:48] but otherwise we are okish [08:48] hmm, too complicated or other problems? [08:48] mainly the changes in bzr [08:49] bzr is changing too fast to be good for 5 years [08:49] and i didn't want the overhead of other RCS [08:49] yeah, good decision [08:49] there are also the 3rdy part tools that need packaging or something [08:49] assuming we can redistribute them [08:49] but that's like a couple of days of work [08:50] although, for just versioning /etc, bzr 0.7 would probably be just fine [08:50] my point is that the bzr backend is changing fast [08:50] so let say we ship 0.7 in dapper [08:50] it might not be compatible with dapper+1 [08:50] figure in 5 years [08:50] so you might not be able to use the repos for cross merging [08:51] and that's one of the most interesting features about having all /etc in RCS [08:51] right. [08:51] cherry-pick this change from the test-server... boom [08:51] well, bzr should stabilize quite a bit by dapper+1, so hopefully we can do it then. [08:52] did you hear anything from the cluster guys? [08:52] nope. [08:52] i guess they won't match our deadlines [08:53] oh well.. we will work it out for dapper+1 hopefully [08:53] it sounds like they'll still put out openssi packages for dapper, just not through ubuntu channels [08:53] that's sick.. but ok [08:53] if they prefer that way [08:53] they don't, but there just wasn't enouh time to meet UVF [08:53] *enough [08:53] well they need to meet Feature Freeze [08:54] that's in 13 days [08:54] bzr guys are hoping to have 0.8 in dapper, with the understanding that there be some stability in branch formats & API (though probably not for 5 years) [08:54] ajmitch: they're aiming for 6-12 months. [08:54] not nearly enough for a 5-year distro support [08:54] fabbione: to be honest, i think it's better for ubuntu not to have it in officially for dapper. it's not stable enough. [08:54] neuralis: ok [08:55] fabbione: so let them put out packages separately and get testing, and we can look at official inclusion for dapper+1 [08:55] neuralis: right, but we will land in the exact same problem [08:55] dapper+1 won't have .15 [08:55] probably .18 or something [08:56] if the openssi guys don't start tracking recent kernels, it will be the same as Xen for hoary/breezy/dapper... [08:56] anyway i need to reboot my ws [08:56] brb [08:56] ok === fabbione [i=fabbione@195.22.207.162] has joined #ubuntu-server === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-server [09:06] re [09:13] fabbione: around feature freeze, i'd like to chat with you briefly about everything that went into server, to make sure i don't forget anything [09:14] sure [09:15] assuming i can remember all of it :) [09:15] but i think we should chat about it today [09:15] so if there is something i did overlook [09:15] there might be time to get it done [09:15] sure [09:15] would you like to do it now or later? [09:15] i just need about 20 minutes to finish something [09:16] sure. ping me when you're back. [09:16] yup === allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-132-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-132-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === lionelp [n=lionel@10.21.96-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-server [09:42] re [09:42] neuralis: still around? [09:44] fabbione: yep [09:45] ok where do you want to start? [09:45] i just went over the list of all dapper specs [09:46] relevant to servers are HardwareTestingCatalog, CommunityServerHardwareTesting, KernelServerRoadmap, TestingServerHardware, ServerCandy, UbuntuClusters [09:46] we should probably talk only about the last two [09:46] KernelServerRoadmap is implemented [09:46] in terms that we have the kernels [09:46] we need to make them the defatuls for server CD [09:47] and probably do some more config tuning [09:47] nothing really fancy is left there [09:47] right, i just want to find out specifically what was changed in them, although i suppose i can just look at the .config [09:47] basically -server doesn't have PREEMPT, HZ=100 [09:47] and a bunch of modules have been removed from -desktop [09:48] sound, DRM removed, i imagine [09:48] eah [09:48] *yeah [09:48] like for example OCFS2 and GFS [09:48] no, sound is there [09:48] you might want a streaming server "use case" [09:48] but clearly you don't need OCFS2 on your workstation [09:48] right. [09:49] -server on i386 is only 686+SMP [09:49] it has basic numa support [09:49] -server-bigiron is pushed to the limit of 64CPU or something [09:49] with bignuma support [09:49] got it. [09:49] Ben's definition of -server-bigiron was really good [09:50] the one posted to -devel? i remember reading it :) [09:50] yeah that one [09:50] okay. so that gets rid of kernel, and i know what's been going on with the three server specs, so let's talk about server-candy and ubuntu-clusters. [09:51] yup [09:51] for Cluster i only managed to keep GFS and OCFS2 updated to a decent level [09:51] okay. slurm didn't make it in due to licencing issues, correct? [09:52] slurm is GPL [09:52] but it links with ssl [09:52] but links against openssl [09:52] right [09:52] and i never got around to ask all upstreams for permissions [09:52] or try to port it to gnutls [09:53] i think asking for permission is impractical; probably too many contributors [09:53] how about torque then? [09:53] neuralis: i agree [09:53] slurm seems to have less licensing issues though, just a gnutls port.. [09:53] neuralis: there are also tons of libs that slurm uses.. they have the same issue [09:54] I got rather confused trying to read the torque license [09:54] maswan: i don't remember testing torque.. neuralis did you? [09:54] fabbione: no, there were reasons why we didn't look at it [09:54] i don't remember tbh [09:55] fabbione: i think it's very non-free [09:55] ok [09:55] neuralis: I'm not so sure, acutally. There are a bunch of non-free clauses, but they were time-limited and expired in 2002 or something like that. [09:56] maswan: i'll take a closer look, but i doubt we can do this in time for dapper. [09:57] maswan: also, slurm seems to be a much more accepted solution, so i'd really rather that we get that in. [09:57] maswan: the people who really need a resource manager on dapper are few enough that they probably don't mind deploying one by hand. [09:58] fabbione: let's continue [09:58] yup [09:58] fabbione: drbd, ganglia, lvs? [09:58] we can look at ganglia and lvs [09:58] that's just question of promoting them to main [09:59] right [09:59] for drdb.. dunno.. we have plenty of these solutions already [09:59] hmm. examples? [09:59] aoe, gnbd, nbd... [10:00] is there something really special about drdb that others don't have? [10:01] nbd just lets you use a remote disk locally. isn't that correct? [10:01] yes [10:01] like aoe or gnbd [10:02] fabbione: right. that's not what drbd is for. [10:02] what does drdb does in short [10:02] ? [10:02] fabbione: drbd is network raid1. it gives you actual drive replication over the network. [10:02] in realtime. [10:03] ok [10:03] than we want it [10:03] is the code stable? [10:03] it's not changing much, and it works solidly in heavy production. [10:04] ok [10:04] do you have an url handy? [10:04] there is a kernel module component, obviously. is that a problem? [10:04] http://drbd.org [10:04] i might as well get it done today [10:04] no [10:04] well .. it depends of course on how intrusive this thing is [10:05] it's relatively isolated, i believe. [10:05] i will check [10:05] now i am almost a git guru :) [10:05] :-D [10:06] it should, in theory, apply cleanly to .15. [10:06] yeah [10:06] we need to see if it works even if applied :) [10:06] right. [10:07] ok next.. [10:07] i guess there is no more for Cluster [10:08] okay, will you pursue the promotion of keepalived, ipvsadm, ganglia, drbd0.7-utils to main? [10:09] do we need keepalived? [10:09] we didn't mention it in the spec [10:09] fabbione: yes, we did; it's part of LVS [10:09] oh right [10:09] i missed the () [10:09] np [10:10] i think i can manage to ask for promotion.. [10:10] i am sort of utterly overloaded [10:10] do promotion reports need to be filed, or is it just a matter of asking? [10:11] we need to fill the forms [10:12] by when? [10:12] there is no real deadline for it [10:12] but it would be better if we can at least test the packages before we do so [10:13] right. i'm almost totally unavailable until march; is there anyone else on the server team we can get to do the reports? [10:13] <- [10:14] or infinity [10:14] well actually [10:14] everybody can do the report [10:15] but it would be better if that somebody is a known source and could test the pkgs as well [10:15] it will spare pitti the time to review it again [10:15] why don't we get one or two of the 12 ubuntu-server guys to write the reports, and you or infinity can test the packages [10:16] we can try.. do you want to write a mail to -server asking for it? [10:16] (have most of the ubuntu-server guys actually done something for ubuntu server? writing server specs or doing some actual ubuntu-server work should be a prerequisite for joining, i think.) [10:16] fabbione: yes, i'll take care of it. if we don't hear back in a few days, i'll get back in touch with you about it. [10:17] ok [10:17] ok, shall we move on to server-candy? [10:20] yup [10:21] server test suite (really burn-in suite) on the cd. i think benc is assigned to work on this. do you know if there's been progress? [10:21] no progress that i know of [10:21] i think it was assigned to somebody else... [10:21] anyway [10:21] i doubt that will ever happen [10:21] why's that? [10:22] because i haven't seen progress so far [10:22] and there isn't much time left for it [10:22] neuralis: Sure. slurm also seems much cleaner, torque has lots of cruft. [10:23] maswan: yes. [10:23] Third party software inclusion is like i said above [10:24] we got a list that needs investigation [10:24] together with mdy [10:24] and packaging [10:24] fabbione: hm. well, if we can include stress and iperf on the cd, writing a totally simple script to run them isn't a big deal. [10:24] we can then build a real interface for dapper+1. [10:24] neuralis: are they in main or universe? [10:25] universe, we haven't needed them in main before. [10:25] hmm ok [10:25] that means that the machine can be stress tested only after installation [10:26] ok let's keep this as a point.. [10:26] they're both tiny packages; do you think it'd be a problem to promote them to main? [10:26] i don't think that's an issue [10:26] i am more thinking of: "Hey i installed -server and the stress tools crash my box... wtf" [10:27] it would be more useful to be able to test the box before [10:27] like for instance.. from the live CD [10:27] we were talking about having this on the -server install cd, no? [10:27] yes [10:27] we can ship them [10:27] you should be able to hit F on the install screen to drop into shell and launch a script that runs the burn-in suite [10:28] yes but to run something that's in a .deb you need to install it first [10:28] in d-i you need the udeb [10:28] that's probably a day of work to get it done [10:28] can we get that in for dapper? [10:29] i dunno.. i don't think i will have the time [10:29] sorry, let me just make sure i'm understanding this right [10:29] sure.. [10:29] afaik, we already ship a recovery mode on the cd that drops us into the shell [10:29] yes [10:30] if we provide stress and iperf as simple binaries available from that shell, problem solved, no? [10:30] but that assumes that your system is already installed with ubuntu [10:30] my understanding was that the test suite should run before [10:30] ah! [10:30] i didn't know the recovery mode required an ubuntu installation; that's not how the debian cds work, i believe [10:30] it's the same infrastructure [10:30] well [10:30] hold on [10:31] sure. [10:31] the recovery mode is able to mount / [10:31] it doesn't check if it is Debian or Ubuntu or RedHat [10:31] my problem is to ship the binaries in the rescue mode [10:31] but you can also get a shell without recovery mode, just a plain busybox shell without any mounted / [10:31] maswan: that too [10:32] that's why i am mentioning shipping the binaries in rescue mode [10:32] they need to be available in d-i [10:32] fabbione: okay, now we're on the same page. should i e-mail infinity or benc and see if they have the time to roll them into the appropriate udeb? [10:32] works for me [10:33] whatever doesn't involve me to add stuff to my TODO list is OK [10:33] :) let's continue - 3rd party /vendor software inclusion. you have the list, how much do you think will get done? [10:34] it depends from the licence of this stuff [10:34] and how much mdy can convince vendors to allow us to redistribute [10:34] okay. mdy is working on that, i assume? when do we expect to know? [10:35] no idea [10:35] he is in Japan or somewhere around there [10:36] ah. okay, i'll ask about it again closer to the end of the month, or e-mail him. [10:36] ok [10:36] point him to the page on the wiki [10:36] i am pretty sure i told him [10:36] is there a separate page other than ServerCandy? [10:36] yes, found it [10:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerExtApps [10:37] ok, moving on, central snakeoil stuff was worked on during the distrosprint, how far did we get there? [10:37] we do have the basic ssl-cert infrastructure [10:37] i already migrated a bunch of servers [10:37] there are a few left [10:37] that should be finished by end of next week [10:37] infinity is to cleanup ssl-cert to be nicer [10:38] sounds good. i'll ask again about details in ~10 days. [10:38] md5 checker: still blocking on elmo/admins? [10:39] yes [10:39] the code is there and i tested it locally [10:39] works for me [10:39] that's all i know [10:40] /etc we already discussed [10:40] should i ping the admins, and if so, who specifically? [10:40] nah [10:40] i am on their necks almost every day [10:40] so is mdz [10:40] ok, sounds good [10:41] i think that's all. did we miss anything? [10:41] so i think that generally we look good [10:41] yes, we're in very good shape. [10:41] seed management, but that's something that needs to be done step by step [10:41] and we already discussed most of it already [10:41] there is stuff i want to kick out of server cd [10:41] and i am waiting for Kamion to merge the -server seeds into the standard branch [10:42] right [10:42] and that's about it i think [10:43] great. thanks for your time! i'll send out the e-mails we talked about and follow up on loose ends later. [10:43] perfect [10:43] thanks to you [10:44] sure. one final question -- are we planning to include the md5 checker in a special mode on the server cd? e.g. do you have an udeb ready, or are we taking a different approach? [10:45] it's already integrated into rescue mode [10:45] rock. [10:45] okay, i have everything i need, and i'll talk to you soon. cheers. [10:46] (4:45AM here, time to get some sleep.) [10:46] night :) === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-server === Emerson [n=emerson@c-24-92-157-187.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === etcp_ is now known as etcp === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-server === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-server === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-87-1-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-server === allee [n=ach@dialin-145-254-254-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-server === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.213.245] has joined #ubuntu-server === hunger [n=tobias@p54A61809.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-server === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-server === Unfun [n=Unfun@c-24-5-74-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-131-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-server === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-server === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === fmasi [n=fmasi@200164158077.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-server === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-server === hunger_ [n=tobias@p54A6395B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-server