[09:12] <hunger> I had expected that the big breakages are over now with the next version of (k)ubuntu drawing nearer.
[09:28] <hunger> Hmmm... looks like mephis is considering ubuntu as its base distribution. Maybe that will give some more weight to kubuntu as well.
[10:02] <Tm_T> :)
[10:04] <hunger> Any idea which package might have changed the sans-serif font in kde for one that is basically unreadable?
[10:04] <Tm_T> no idea
[10:05] <hunger> Or what else might have effected the font negatively since wednesday?
[10:05] <Tm_T> I have some font issues myself too
[10:06] <hunger> I just hope the devs can fix all the issues they have broken till they release.
[10:06] <jsgotangco> :/
[10:06] <freeflying> hunger: just wait , it's due to ttf-arphic-uming
[10:06] <hunger> freeflying: uming?
[10:08] <freeflying> hunger: after today's upgrade ,it will affcet some other fonts
[10:08] <freeflying> hunger: we are working on it now 
[10:08] <freeflying> jsgotangco: hi
[10:08] <jsgotangco> freeflying, hi!
[10:08] <Tm_T> freeflying: also may fix xosd problem?
[10:08] <hunger> freeflying: What is uming? Or is that part of the fontname?
[10:09] <freeflying> jsgotangco: how about korea fonts display
[10:09] <freeflying> Tm_T: no
[10:09] <jsgotangco> i still haven't updated today
[10:09] <freeflying> hunger: is't a chinese font
[10:09] <hunger> Tm_T: xosd problem? The one with two windows popping up whenever an osd appears?
[10:09] <Tm_T> no, xosd as Xorg osd tools
[10:09] <hunger> freeflying: Oh. Why does that break my latin one?
[10:09] <Tm_T> osd_cat mainly
[10:09] <Tm_T>   -f, --font=FONT     Use font (default: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--*-*-*-*-c-*-*-*
[10:10] <Tm_T> travolta@HeviPoksi:~/temp$ echo laa | osd_cat
[10:10] <Tm_T> Error initializing osd: Default font not found
[10:10] <hunger> Tm_T: Damn:-( That is another problem that I have no idea of how to report that:-(
[10:10] <Tm_T> look, default font of Xorg tool is missing ;(
[10:10] <Tm_T> I consider this as major flaw
[10:11] <Tm_T> was just ok in breezy
[10:11] <hunger> Tm_T: Well, currently I would be happy if I could do basic stuff like startup and shutdown in dapper:-(
[10:11] <Tm_T> hehe
[10:11] <freeflying> this change just make some latin fonts fuzzy 
[10:11] <Riddell> hunger: breakages?
[10:12] <freeflying> plz have a look ar this post http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=128080
[10:12] <Riddell> hunger: mepis URL?
[10:12] <Tm_T> whops, you woke sleeping bear!
[10:12] <hunger> Riddell: no more sleep, no more shutdown, that kind of stuff.
[10:13] <hunger> Riddell: I read about mephis here: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2584380705.html
[10:14] <hunger> Riddell: apparently mephis is a debian based kde distro.
[10:14] <Riddell> it is indeed
[10:14] <Riddell> freeflying: any idea what the fonts problem is, or should I just revert for now?
[10:15] <freeflying> Riddell: got it , and working on it now , new patch will soon out
[10:16] <Riddell> freeflying: great
[10:19] <freeflying> jsgotangco: hi
[10:19] <freeflying> jsgotangco: would u mind upgrade your system ,and have a test 
[10:19] <jsgotangco> mepis is really nice
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:19] <jsgotangco> i'll have to reboot though
[10:20] <hunger> freeflying: I can test.
[10:21] <freeflying> jsgotangco: thx ,if you have time   :0
[10:21] <hunger> freeflying: If I manage to decypher the hyroglyphs I have on my screen at the moment that is;-)
[10:22] <freeflying> hunger: decypher the hyroglyphs ?
[10:22] <hunger> freeflying: My fonts are really borked.
[10:23] <hunger> freeflying: Actually I switch to console since it is really hard to read stuff in X.
[10:23] <freeflying> hunger: it will not broked, just made bold  fuzzy .
[10:24] <hunger> freeflying: Yeap. I use bold almost everywhere and I looks like i which in turn looks like l now, etc.
[10:25] <freeflying> hunger: we will solve that as quickly as we can , and sorry for that 
[10:25] <hunger> freeflying: Thanks!
[10:26] <hunger> freeflying: And please do not get discouraged by my whining. All of you devs are doing great work!
[10:26] <Tm_T> freeflying: wanna test one thing?
[10:26] <freeflying> hunger: :)
[10:26] <freeflying> Tm_T: test for what ?
[10:26] <hunger> freeflying: It is just that I do not know what to bugreport on here, so I can not whine in the bugtracker;-)
[10:27] <Tm_T> freeflying: osd_cat, if it returns same error there
[10:27] <Tm_T> freeflying: to make sure it's not only here
[10:27] <Tm_T> freeflying: xosd-bin <- package containing osd_cat
[10:28] <Tm_T> and use it: echo foo | osd_cat
[10:29] <hunger> osd_cat works for me by the way.
[10:31] <freeflying> Tm_T: no error given for me 
[10:35] <Tm_T> freeflying: ok, utf-8?
[10:35] <freeflying> Tm_T: y
[10:36] <Tm_T> ok, can you test with other locale?
[10:36] <Tm_T> like, LANG=en_GB echo foo | osd_cat
[10:36] <Tm_T> (dunno if that changes anything)
[10:36] <freeflying> Tm_T: what locale you want test 
[10:37] <Tm_T> any iso-8859-
[10:37] <Tm_T> 1 or 15 mainly
[10:37] <Tm_T> don't say I just happen to have missing font
[10:38] <Tm_T> that means reinstalling all font packages ;(
[10:40] <freeflying> Tm_T: it can display english here , but chinese can't be displayed 
[10:41] <Tm_T> freeflying: does osd_cat work?
[10:41] <freeflying> Tm_T: it works
[10:41] <Tm_T> damn!
[10:41] <Tm_T> thanks, now I have to find out in what package that font is
[10:42] <freeflying> Tm_T: u r welcome :)
[10:48] <MrFaber> hi all
[10:48] <MrFaber> I have a question according to the standard kubuntu kde theme.
[10:49] <MrFaber> If I install a new theme or change settings and want to set them back to standard everything looks different to the kubuntu standard skin and I have no clue how to set it back without resetting some configuraton files. Isn't it possible to ship kubuntu with a kde theme which can be easyly choosen under system settings?
[10:49] <MrFaber> Maybe I miss something which can reset it but I think it would be a good idea too.
[10:50] <Riddell> MrFaber: yes, we should ship a .theme file
[10:50] <MrFaber> thanks
[10:50] <Riddell> although we don't make the theme module easily choosable at the moment
[10:50] <Riddell> I'll try and remember to poke tonio about that, he's doing the default settings stuff at the moment
[10:50] <MrFaber> many thanks
[10:51] <Riddell> of course you can always just rm -r ~/.kde, but that's not always a good idea :)
[10:51] <MrFaber> yes, than all my settings are lost :-D
[10:51] <MrFaber> I have tried to set all settings back in menu but it looks completly different
[10:52] <MrFaber> than changed configuraition files and killed some kde parts
[10:52] <MrFaber> So I have to remove it and only recover important parts of my settings
[10:52] <MrFaber> like logs and so on
[10:52] <MrFaber> but for beginners it isn't that easy :-D
[10:54] <MrFaber> BTW does anyone knows why KDE sepparates a app config file from his app directory?
[10:54] <MrFaber> .kde/share/apps and .kde/share/config I think it would be easier if everything is in one directory
[10:54] <MrFaber> for recovery
[10:55] <Riddell> MrFaber: no paticular reason that I know of but I think it makes things easier for us to customise, e.g. we only need one /etc/kde3 directory and one directory for /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/
[10:56] <MrFaber> ok, that makes sense and if you know it it is no big deal
[10:57] <MrFaber> ok, thanks and cu all
[11:03] <Tm_T> freeflying: oh joy, 95 packages reinstalling, and I'm almost sure that doesn't fix my problem
[11:05] <freeflying> Tm_T: hmm :0
[11:07] <Tm_T> yup, but have to test
[11:12] <jeroenvrp> hi folks 
[11:13] <jeroenvrp> Is it not a good idea to make update-apt a dependency of Adept?
[11:13] <jeroenvrp> without that adept-notifier has no function, because it doesnt know about new packages
[11:14] <Riddell> adept-notifier does know that there are new packages
[11:14] <Riddell> and lets you open adept-updater to download
[11:15] <Riddell> although downloading the .debs nightly as an option might not be a bad idea, ready to install when the user wants
[11:17] <mornfall> Riddell: currently that's an option with the cronjob, i think
[11:17] <mornfall> Riddell: should work transparently with adept-*
[11:17] <mornfall> maybe it should be configurable in the GUI though
[11:39] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: thansk for your answer, but when and how does adept-notifier check if there are new packages?
[11:39] <jeroenvrp> cause it always stays green at my place
[11:40] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: mornfall will know the details
[11:40] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: ping
[11:40] <Riddell> I imagine it's whenever apt-get update is run, which includes the nightly cron run
[11:41] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: let me see
[11:42] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: is that /etc/cron.daily/apt ?
[11:43] <Riddell> looks about it
[11:43] <jeroenvrp> mmm when I run it standalone it doesn't do anything
[11:47] <mornfall> jeroenvrp: you may have it disabled
[11:47] <jeroenvrp> ah wait it must be configured in the apt-config
[11:47] <mornfall> i'm almost sure it's on by default though
[11:47] <jeroenvrp> hi mornfall 
[11:47] <mornfall> hi :)
[11:48] <jeroenvrp> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists=1
[11:48] <jeroenvrp> so 1 should be every day
[11:48] <JRe> Riddell: there is still the bug in k3bsetup2
[11:48] <Riddell> JRe: yep
[11:48] <Riddell> JRe: it's not high priority for me, since k3b works out the box
[11:49] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: did you saw my wishlist item about a quick filte ron package name only?
[11:49] <JRe> Riddell: ok :)
[11:50] <mornfall> jeroenvrp: seen, haven't decided what to do about it yet
[11:50] <JRe> Riddell: but every user will experience the bug since there is a dialog box showed if cdrdao is not executed as root
[11:51] <Tm_T> aye
[11:51] <Riddell> JRe: then we'll remove that dialogue box :)
[11:51] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: ok, its the only option keeping me from switching to adept 
[11:51] <JRe> Riddell: yeah but it's very bad to use cdrdao without root privileges ;)
[11:52] <jeroenvrp> one other thing Riddell 
[11:52] <mornfall> jeroenvrp: if you find a nice non-intrusive way to make it accessible, let me know :)
[11:52] <Riddell> JRe: why?  it's managed fine so far
[11:52] <Riddell> actually it's managed without cdrdao at all
[11:52] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: a checkbox
[11:52] <jeroenvrp> with search in packagename only
[11:53] <JRe> Riddell: having cdrdao launched as root increase a lot the stability of the burning process because it became top priority over the other processes you have launched
[11:53] <jeroenvrp> or something like "package:" before the searcht term
[11:53] <jeroenvrp> or onlu p: 
[11:53] <Riddell> JRe: talk to pitti about it, he's the one who can decide if something is setuid
[11:53] <JRe> Riddell: ok
[11:54] <jeroenvrp> anyhow in breezy I had a checkbox when running kdesu, for remembering my password for a while - it's not in dapper
[12:06] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: the "APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists=1" - should that be listed when I do a "apt-config dump" ?
[12:06] <mornfall> apparently, yes
[12:06] <jeroenvrp> it does not
[12:06] <Riddell> listed for me
[12:06] <jeroenvrp> no entries for APT::Periodic: at al
[12:07] <jeroenvrp> let me do a dpkg-reconfigure
[12:07] <mornfall> [NOTRASH] morn@lor-k-dapper/k3:~ -> apt-config dump | grep Period | grep Lists
[12:07] <mornfall> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
[12:08] <jeroenvrp> i've updated dapper directly from breezy
[12:08] <mornfall> so have i
[12:08] <jeroenvrp> no results for dpkg-reconfigure apt
[12:09] <mornfall> it was default with breezy too
[12:09] <mornfall> and i think i updated that from hoary
[12:09] <jeroenvrp> my fist kubuntu install was breezy RC
[12:15] <mornfall> owns, tests summary: exceptions:1 failures:9 warnings:0 ok:136
[12:16] <robotgeek> finally, got airport extreme working on my laptop with dhcp 
[12:18] <Tm_T> 13:12 < andred> for dapper: deb http://andre.duffeck.de/kopete/dapper /
[12:18] <Tm_T> 13:12 < andred> for breezy: deb http://andre.duffeck.de/kopete/breezy /
[12:19] <Tm_T> breezy package(s) of Kopete 0.12 alpha available 
[12:22] <Tm_T> freeflying: no, reinstalling fonts doesn't help ;(
[12:23] <freeflying> Tm_T: still on working , you may configure it manually
[12:24] <Tm_T> freeflying: configure what?
[12:24] <freeflying> Tm_T: use conf here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8478 replace the content in /etc/fonts/conf.d/ttf-arphic-uming
[12:24] <Tm_T> :o
[12:25] <andred> hello
[12:25] <Riddell> hello andred 
[12:26] <Tm_T> freeflying: there wasn't that name of file yet
[12:26] <Tm_T> travolta@HeviPoksi:~/temp$ echo "laa foo fii foo" | ~/xosd-blue
[12:26] <Tm_T> Error initializing osd: Default font not found
[12:26] <Tm_T> ;(
[12:26] <freeflying> Tm_T: then you have not installed ttf-arphic-uming 
[12:27] <Tm_T> true, installing
[12:27] <Tm_T> you think that might help?
[12:27] <freeflying> Tm_T:  that's not my fault  then  :)
[12:27] <Tm_T> hehe
[12:29] <Tonio_> ji all
[12:29] <Tonio_> s/ji/hi
[12:30] <Tm_T> :)
[12:30] <Tm_T> Tonio_: ji to you too
[12:30] <Tm_T> jow are you?
[12:30] <Tonio_> haha
[12:30] <Tonio_> fine ;) I have lots of kubuntu stuff today........ let's go !
[12:31] <freeflying> hi Tonio_ 
[12:31] <Tonio_> hello freeflying 
[12:39] <Tm_T> freeflying: still same errors ;(
[12:39] <freeflying> Tm_T: it can works here with en_US en_GB locale
[12:41] <Tm_T> hmh
[12:41] <Tm_T> and I don't get osd_cat working in any way
[01:18] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: I've asked two other users and they also have not : APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1"; in the config
[01:19] <mornfall> interesting
[01:19] <robotgeek> hah jeroenvrp 
[01:20] <robotgeek> i can try it on a breezy box too?
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> yes please robotgeek 
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: we also have no apt.conf file
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> only the apt.conf.d folder
[01:21] <robotgeek> yeah, it it present in breezy
[01:21] <mornfall> jeroenvrp: i'd say that's ok
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: so where does it oput its defaults
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> robotgeek: in breezy, thats what I thought
[01:23] <jeroenvrp> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   0 2006-01-25 06:25 update-stamp
[01:23] <jeroenvrp> jeroen@k-uptown:/var/lib/apt/periodic$   
[01:23] <jeroenvrp> the 25th
[01:24] <jeroenvrp> ans I've updated to dapper this monday
[01:24] <jeroenvrp> or tuesday
[01:24] <robotgeek> i have a fresh installl
[01:24] <jeroenvrp> robotgeek: I've updated from breezy
[01:25] <robotgeek> jeroenvrp: hmm, maybe i should run apt-config again
[01:25] <jeroenvrp> robotgeek: what you mean
[01:25] <jeroenvrp> apt-config shell ?
[01:26] <robotgeek> jeroenvrp: i got confused, with apt-setup
[01:26] <jeroenvrp> robotgeek: apt-setup is not on my system
[01:27] <robotgeek> jeroenvrp: it's on breezy, not on dapper :)
[01:27] <jeroenvrp> aha
[01:27] <jeroenvrp> normally it should be in base-config, i've read
[01:28] <jeroenvrp> but that is not installed and if I try it want to uninstall a lot of things, incl language packs
[01:29] <robotgeek> i think it will install it back, i can try it for you
[01:29] <robotgeek> apparently not
[01:30] <jeroenvrp> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[01:30] <jeroenvrp>   belocs-locales-bin j2re1.4 j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin kde-i18n-nl language-pack-en
[01:30] <jeroenvrp>   language-pack-en-base language-pack-gnome-nl language-pack-gnome-nl-base language-pack-kde-en
[01:30] <jeroenvrp>   language-pack-kde-en-base language-pack-kde-nl language-pack-kde-nl-base language-pack-nl
[01:30] <jeroenvrp>   language-pack-nl-base locales ubuntu-base ubuntu-minimal
[01:30] <jeroenvrp> oeps
[01:30] <jeroenvrp> sorry
[01:31] <jeroenvrp> and java
[01:31] <robotgeek> jeroenvrp: yes, i found that out :). i don't have the rest of the stuff installed
[01:32] <jeroenvrp> this is a ubunti thing , lets ask there
[01:34] <robotgeek> jeroenvrp: i'm going to bed, later :)
[01:35] <jeroenvrp> good night or whatever time of the day
[02:22] <jeroenvrp> mornfall: I've put the      Update-Package-Lists "1";  in a new /etc/apt/apt.conf and now /wtc/cron.daily/apt works great
[02:22] <jeroenvrp> just to let you know
[02:22] <mornfall> :-)
[02:22] <jeroenvrp> so still strange that the apt defaults are not generated
[03:15] <bert_> anyone got KLik to work in KDE 3.5.1?
[03:16] <hunger> bert_ Whatfor? We got apt.
[03:18] <bert_> Klik runs a program without installing it, doesn't put any thing on the hard drive, good for checking out programs before they are installed.
[03:18] <hunger> bert_: Yes, I know.
[03:19] <hunger> bert_: I just do not like the idea of my users installing stuff.
[03:20] <hunger> yes, they aren ot really installing anything, but they mess up the loop devices and run software of dubious origins.
[03:21] <bert_> The programs are maintained on the Klik site
[03:22] <hunger> bert_: Sorry, I just do not like the idea of users running apps downloaded from somewhere. And I do not like the hack klick uses to bring about the easy of use it has.
[03:23] <hunger> bert_: But that is just by personal oppinion.... I have not heared of anybody using this in kubuntu.
[03:24] <hunger> Did you try running it?
[03:24] <hunger> What was the error you had? Maybe I can help getting it set up?
[03:25] <bert_> Yes, but it doesn't run the program I tries to load
[03:25] <hunger> bert_: Did you try running it in a terminal? Maybe you get more informatinons about what goes wrong there.
[03:27] <hunger> bert_: Are there other users on your system? 
[03:27] <bert_> No only me
[03:28] <bert_> Its a home computer
[03:28] <hunger> bert_: Good, then nobody else is using your loopback devices:-)
[03:29] <bert_> On the Klik site they mention 'is your kernel cramfs enabled?
[03:29] <hunger> bert_: You are not using all loopdevs yourself, are you? (i.e. by running other klick apps).
[03:30] <bert_> No
[03:30] <bert_> They say to use to check zcat /proc/config.gz | grep CRAM
[03:31] <bert_> Should return: CONFIG_CRAMFS=m
[03:31] <bert_> or CONFIG_CRAMFS=y
[03:32] <bert_> mine doesn't
[03:33] <hunger> bert_: Then you do not have the filesystem used in the klik image:-(
[03:34] <hunger> bert_: You are not using a ubuntu-kernel/
[03:34] <hunger> bert_: those have no /proc/config.gz:-)
[03:35] <hunger> bert_: Get a ubuntu kernel. That has cramfs built in. (see /boot/config-kernelversion)
[03:36] <bert_> Installed Kubuntu 5.10 fron CD I downloaded, then updated KDE to 3.5, then to 3.5.1 over the internet
[03:37] <hunger> bert_: I am running dapper. That kenel definitly has cramfs. (cat boot/config-YOURKERNEL | grep CRAM )
[03:38] <hunger> Make that /boot/config-YOURKERNEL
[03:45] <bert_> Thanks, Hunger for your help, I will leave Klik for the time being, thought it might be interesting, got to go to bed now, bye.
[03:46] <hunger> bert_: You are welcome.
[04:35] <raphink> yop Tonio_ 
[04:53] <raphink> Riddell: kde 3.5.1 is supposed to be a bug fix right?
[05:05] <raphink> Riddell: honnestly, we don't want to release such a horrible version of KDE in Dapper
[05:05] <raphink> Riddell: there are more bugs in 3.5.1 than in 3.5
[05:06] <sebas> raphink: Which?
[05:06] <sebas> And it's not only about numbers, but also about severity.
[05:06] <raphink> sebas: severe bugs, or quite
[05:06] <raphink> sebas: kmail is not integrated in kdepim
[05:06] <sebas> 3.5.1 runs fine here, actually.
[05:07] <raphink> kxkb doesn't let select layouts anymore
[05:07] <sebas> Less crashes than 3.5.0 anyway.
[05:07] <raphink> ok a few tests sebas 
[05:07] <raphink> sebas: drag a file on your desktop and look at the mouse
[05:07] <raphink> this is not a severe bug, yet I don't think it was in 3.5
[05:08] <raphink> sebas: the mouse becomes black
[05:08] <sebas> Nothing strange, what do you get?
[05:08] <raphink> a black cursor instead of the hand
[05:08] <sebas> No, hand, from the theme I chose.
[05:08] <raphink> ok
[05:08] <raphink> sebas: 3.5.1 on dapper or breezy?
[05:08] <sebas> Which theme do you use?
[05:08] <sebas> Dapper here.
[05:08] <raphink> ok good
[05:09] <raphink> i'll check with dapper then
[05:09] <raphink> ;)
[05:09] <raphink> in breezy it's all buggy
[05:09] <raphink> terrible
[05:09] <sebas> I've breezy here aswell, but didn't notice such thing.
[05:09] <sebas> I'd need to reboot, though I'd rather not :>
[05:09] <raphink> ok let's try something else
[05:09] <freeflying> raphink: kde3.5.1 works better than 3.5.0 in dapper 
[05:09] <raphink> sebas: open the keyboard selector in kcontrol
[05:10] <raphink> do you hve the list of available layouts?
[05:10] <sebas> Nope. empty.
[05:10] <sebas> That
[05:10] <raphink> yep, I consider that a major bug
[05:10] <sebas> 's quite serious, though.
[05:11] <raphink> then
[05:11] <raphink> another one
[05:11] <raphink> open kontact
[05:11] <raphink> create a new email
[05:11] <sebas> It's open :)
[05:11] <raphink> enter an adress in the recipient field
[05:11] <raphink> then, without closing the message, go to the kaddressbook section in kontact
[05:11] <raphink> then quit
[05:11] <raphink> and you'll lose all your contacts
[05:11] <raphink> you just lose your contact list in .kde
[05:12] <raphink> major, too
[05:12] <sebas> Eeh, you don't want to screw me, right? :P
[05:12] <sebas> Don't make me loose data while testing, at least *warn* me before...
[05:12] <raphink> another funny one: kmail doen't work with kdepim anymore
[05:13] <sebas> How do you mean?
[05:13] <raphink> you can't use filters to select contacts in an email
[05:13] <raphink> and stuff like that
[05:13] <raphink> you can only choose from the contacts kmail remember
[05:13] <raphink> but have no access to your kaddressbook ones
[05:13] <sebas> Are those reported upstream, btw?
[05:13] <raphink> this one is
[05:13] <raphink> I did report it
[05:13] <raphink> the one that deletes the address book I reported in 3.5
[05:13] <raphink> quite a long time ago
[05:14] <raphink> it's not fixed,although it's major
[05:14] <raphink> the kxkb one was added in 3.5.1
[05:14] <raphink> for such a small app as kxkb, there is a 34kb diff in the source
[05:14] <raphink> between 3.5 and 3.5.1
[05:14] <raphink> I don't call that a bug fixing release
[05:14] <raphink> there are whole new functions added
[05:15] <raphink> things recoded
[05:15] <raphink> I've got a hard time thinking kde 3.5.1 could be the default one in dapper
[05:15] <raphink> with such big issues around
[05:15] <sebas> Well, there's always local patches. ...
[05:16] <sebas> KDE 3.5.0 has serious issues aswell.
[05:16] <raphink> yes sebas 
[05:16] <raphink> but I think I don't understand what the KDE team means by bug fixing
[05:16] <raphink> also, I report quite a lot to the KDE bts but it's such a mess that I get tired of it
[05:16] <sebas> You should raise that on kde-core-devel then.
[05:17] <raphink> does the KDE team really want to do a bug fixing release some time?
[05:17] <raphink> it doesn't seem so
[05:17] <raphink> I don't like gnome much, but at least when they say they fix things, they do
[05:17] <sebas> Eeh, really, I'm not the one who can help you there.
[05:17] <raphink> yes I know sebas 
[05:17] <raphink> just expressing my deception
[05:18] <sebas> Nah, GNOME has *nothing* to do with it, and with that kind of argumentation, you'll get nowhere.
[05:18] <sebas> Well, get an svn account, fix things, that's the way to go.
[05:18] <raphink> KDE needs to focus on bug fixing in kde 3.5 that's my point
[05:18] <raphink> 3.5 is released, and 4 is the new dev version
[05:18] <raphink> I'm not a c++ dev
[05:19] <raphink> :(
[05:19] <sebas> And don't forget ... about half of the problems you have are fixed in dapper, so it's not all that bad.
[05:19] <raphink> hmm
[05:20] <sebas> I can reproduce one yet, and didn't try one of your issues since I don't want possible dataloss.
[05:20] <sebas> Then get someone to fix it for you, that's the way it goes.
[05:20] <sebas> Complaining doesn't help as long as people don't have time.
[05:21] <sebas> It's not like someone is obliged to fix it for you.
[05:21] <raphink> yes I knwo sebas, I'm the first one to say that to people who complain and do nothing 
[05:21] <sebas> Ok, are those problems still there in current svn then?
[05:22] <raphink> I shall install current svn to check I guess
[05:22] <sebas> You can hardly complain about a version that is a) not officially supported, b) when you didn't check if it's changed.
[05:22] <sebas> code freeze for 3.5.1 was about a month ago...
[05:22] <raphink> mhm
[05:22] <raphink> yes I know
[05:23] <sebas> Maybe stuff is fixed, then you can search the svnlog and propose to include some patch in dapper.
[05:23] <raphink> I'll check for diff in the svn
[05:23] <sebas> Ok :)
[05:25] <raphink> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[05:25] <raphink> sebas: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/
[05:25] <raphink> can you find kxkb there?
[05:25] <raphink> I can't :s
[05:25] <raphink> but it's there http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/?rev=454225
[05:25] <raphink> :s
[05:25] <raphink> I don't get it :s
[05:25] <Riddell> the xkb stuff just needs a directory changed
[05:25] <Riddell> you can add a symlink
[05:26] <sebas> http://www.google.com/search?q=xkb+site%3Awebsvn.kde.org&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
[05:27] <raphink> Riddell: how do you mean?
[05:27] <raphink> Riddell:  you mean the bug?
[05:27] <Riddell> yes
[05:27] <raphink> I don't understand
[05:27] <raphink> what has to be changed ?
[05:28] <Riddell> add a symlink somewhere, search the forums for what it is
[05:29] <Riddell> i'll look at a proper fix when I have some time (but espresso is my priority just now)
[05:29] <raphink> what forums do you mean?
[05:29] <Riddell> kubuntuforums
[05:29] <raphink> sorry for the stupid questions Riddell but I'm willing to help and I don't really understnad so
[05:29] <Riddell> the xkb  directory has moves from somewhere in /usr to somewhere in /etc
[05:30] <Riddell> patches welcome of course :)
[05:30] <raphink> of course
[05:30] <raphink> which is why i'm trying to understand
[05:41] <raphink> sebas: do you confirm that this kxkb bug is also in dapper?
[05:42] <sebas> raphink: Yeah, but as JR said, it's easy to fix. So I don't really see why this should be a reason to not have 3.5.1 in Dapper.
[05:42] <sebas> It'll be fixed before release anyway.
[05:43] <raphink> sure
[05:43] <raphink> if you confirm it in dapper, 
[05:43] <raphink> then I'll release a bug fix for dapper
[05:43] <raphink> taht's why I was asking ;)
[05:47] <sebas> You'll release a bug fix for dapper? What does that mean?
[05:47] <raphink> well that I'll file the bug on malone, then attach a debdiff to it so Riddell can fix it ;)
[05:50] <raphink> sebas: what did you think it meant?
[05:50] <sebas> I didn't get you, that's why I asked.
[05:50] <raphink> ok
[05:50] <raphink> now you did?
[06:00] <raphink> let's see if it works :)
[07:36] <raphink> Riddell: did you notice the series of 
[07:36] <raphink> Building kcontrol/kcmfontinst HTML docs...
[07:36] <raphink> meinproc: WARNING: KLocale: trying to look up "" in catalog. Fix the program
[07:36] <raphink> errors
[07:37] <raphink> when building kdebase ?
[07:37] <raphink> it does it for all HTML docs 
[07:46] <raphink> my fix doesn't work :-
[07:47] <raphink> :(
[07:52] <raphink> yeah :) :) :)
[07:56] <raphink> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/31165 :)
[07:56] <raphink> fixed :)
[09:40] <nlindblad> anyone who has experience of VIA intergrated VGA?
[10:21] <mornfall> \o/ polish for commitprogress ++
[10:24] <mornfall> with http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/adept-manager-2.png and without http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/adept-manager-3.png konsole
[10:24] <mornfall> (the % indicator is somewhat borked --> fixing)
[10:33] <mornfall> \o/ unfucked
[10:38] <kkathman> Riddell:  a suggestion - I wonder if we could include another package in Dapper - taskjuggler.  This is a project management application for KDE.  We currently seem to have something for ubuntu but not anything worthwhile for Kubuntu?
[10:51] <Riddell> kkathman: it's in universe, what's the equivalent in ubuntu?
[10:52] <kkathman> Riddell:  hmm...I did an !info on it through ubotu and it didnt find it (maybe not in breezy then)
[10:53] <Riddell> no, I've a feeling it's only recently been packaged
[10:53] <Riddell> there's also kplato now (in koffice archives)
[10:54] <kkathman> Riddell: planner is the package in ubuntu
[10:54] <Riddell> part of gnome-office, so in main
[10:54] <kkathman> Riddell:  its mentioned in the ubuntu desktop guide
[10:54] <Riddell> kplato will go into main when koffice 1.5 is uploaded (probably after dapper)
[10:55] <Tonio_> re
[10:55] <kkathman> Riddell: when I was writing the Kubuntu desktop guide - I was looking for an alternative, so I did a search and found only a package called Kfocus, which is a very old package and not what we want
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have a little question concerning koffice.... do you compile it with msoffice compatibility enabled ?
[10:56] <Tonio_> s/compile/package
[10:56] <kkathman> However, since I also have a SuSE implementation in my network, I found that they had this "taskjuggler" which is a bit more robust
[10:56] <Riddell> Tonio_: the ms filters should all be there yes
[10:56] <kkathman> so glad to know it will be in Dapper
[10:56] <kkathman> I should amend that in the Kubuntu guide
[10:56] <Riddell> ah well taskjuggler is written by the former head of suse's something devision so they will include it :)
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay nice , I may test the latest at work on monday then :)
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: you may wait cause there is another fix I try to build
[10:57] <Tonio_> there is a little bug on the desktop
[10:57] <Tonio_> try to click and move a file on it...
[10:57] <Riddell> mornfall: hidden by default looks good
[10:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: works forme
[10:58] <Riddell> for me
[10:58] <Tonio_> the cursor is coming back to the X default one no ?
[10:58] <Tonio_> raphink and I have that on breezy + kde 3.5.1
[10:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: not on dapper I don't
[10:58] <Riddell> Human theme hand cursor
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah okay.....
[10:59] <Tonio_> I don't have the hand juste while moving the file..... sounds strange ;)
[10:59] <Tonio_> but cool, no patch to do then
[11:03] <Riddell> raphink: I think adding that directory rather than replacing the existing one would be better, then the change could go upstream
[11:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: working on bluez-utils acutally, but I have a doubt on the method you prefer to correct this....
[11:14] <Tonio_> actually there is an hcid.conf file in the sources copied directly in /etc/bluetooth
[11:15] <Tonio_> that contains the pin_helper setting
[11:16] <Tonio_> you told me that you were not fan of postinst scripts, so how would you change that knowing that the file is parsed via the hcid daemon directly ?
[11:16] <Tonio_> hacking the c source directly via a patch or something ?
[11:17] <allee> Tonio_: patch hcid.conf in the source
[11:17] <Tonio_> allee: hi ;)
[11:17] <allee> Tonio_: hi :)
[11:18] <allee> Tonio_: typing bluetooth, rings a bell here ;)
[11:18] <Tonio_> allee: but it is a static file..... what can I had inside except a path ? I can't put a variable or something.....
[11:18] <Tonio_> allee: lol
[11:19] <Tonio_> the problem is that I don't see another mecanism except a postinst script for that.......
[11:19] <allee> Tonio_: oh.  Please bring me up to date.  You don't plan to set a 'pin_helper = /path/to/wrapper' ?
[11:20] <Tonio_> allee: yes
[11:20] <Tonio_> it is set to bluez-pin by default, which cannot be installed on kubuntu for gnome depandancies reasons
[11:20] <allee> Tonio_: What instead?  changing a conffile is a policy violation
[11:20] <Tonio_> kdebluetooth adds its own kbluepin
[11:20] <allee> I know
[11:21] <Tonio_> so the idea is to change the pin_helper value in some way when we are on kubuntu to set it to kbluepin value
[11:22] <Tonio_> my idea was to use a postinst script that would check KDE_FULL_SESSION and depending the variable exists or not, making a sed on the config file
[11:22] <Tonio_> and I don't see another simple/efficient process except patching the full hcid daemon....
[11:23] <allee> sed a config file -> policy violation
[11:24] <Tonio_> allee: I know
[11:24] <Tonio_> but I don't find another way....
[11:24] <allee> Tonio_: that a hack.  Get a wrapper script in bluez pkg.  If hcid.conf is not changed it will be updated, ..
[11:24] <Tonio_> except complex patch on hcid.c
[11:25] <allee> if not user will be prompted in a compliant manner
[11:26] <allee> Tonio_: before using a complex hcid hack, hack kbluepin to listen for dbus msgs.
[11:27] <Tonio_> allee: I'm not able to do that ;) I'm not a developper, and I don't know C anyway
[11:27] <allee> btw. kbluepin relies on :0 
[11:27] <allee> so kbluepin is a hack too ;)
[11:27] <Tonio_> allee: impossible for me....
[11:28] <allee> Me too :)
[11:28] <allee> Well with a bit of time, I get it, but I will not find this time :(
[11:28] <Tonio_> but I must say I don't understant the reason a config file doesn't have to be modified by a postinst script.........
[11:29] <Tonio_> config files are done to be configured for our needs..... sounds ununderstandable for me
[11:29] <allee> Tonio_: E.g. I would be pissed because I have my own setup
[11:29] <Tonio_> okay
[11:29] <allee> Tonio_: what's wrong, or what will go wrong, with the wrapper approach?
[11:30] <Tonio_> allee: no I understand
[11:30] <Tonio_> I perfectly understand the purpose
[11:30] <Tonio_> but well as long as kdebluetooth is installed with kubuntu
[11:31] <allee> if [ -x /usr/bin/bluepin ]  then; blueping; else kblueping; fi
[11:31] <Tonio_> it would be confusing for the user in some way to get prompted to set the value for their pinhelper when only ONE value is possible
[11:31] <allee> ^^ this script will call kbluepin on kubuntu and bluepin in ubuntu  (defaults assumed)
[11:32] <Tonio_> allee: I have already that, but where to put it on ?
[11:32] <Tonio_> the problem is in fact I don't see where can this script be called :)
[11:32] <allee> hcid.conf  pin_helper '/path/to/wrapper'
[11:32] <Tonio_> we have a daemon calling a .conf file.......
[11:32] <allee> [23:16]  <allee> Tonio_: patch hcid.conf in the source
[11:32] <Tonio_> I can't put bash code in .conf (or you have to teach me how lol)
[11:33] <allee> echo 'if [ -x /usr/bin/bluepin ]  then; blueping; else kblueping; fi'  > /etc/bluetooth/pinwrapper; chmod 755 ...
[11:34] <allee> add make hcid.conf in bluez pkg accordingly
[11:35] <Tonio_> allee: here is the point I don't understand, the package is build on a machine where kde is not installed
[11:35] <allee> ah, "$@" needs to be added to pass the in/out and btaddr
[11:35] <Tonio_> so kbluepin will not be present, and the package cannot be "ready for kubuntu"
[11:35] <Tonio_> or I miss something
[11:35] <allee> yes, with pin_helper set to /etc/bluetooth/pinwrapper
[11:35] <allee> Tonio_: It's enough that the wrapperscript is in bluez pkg
[11:36] <allee> Tonio_: later at runtime this script picks kbluepin in kubuntu and bluepin in ubutntu
[11:37] <Tonio_> allee: the problem is that I perfectly understand that :)
[11:37] <allee> Tonio_: still confused?
[11:37] <Tonio_> my problem is "how and where to call the wrapper script ???"
[11:38] <Tonio_> I have the xrapper script
[11:38] <allee> Tonio_: hcid will call the script when it need a pin
[11:38] <Tonio_> allee: so I need to hack hcid, that's exactly what I was sayin ;)
[11:38] <Tonio_> I can't do that, I don't have the knowledge to.....
[11:39] <Tonio_> I understand the mecanism, but I'm unable to do that by myself....
[11:39] <allee> Tonio_: you just need to patch hcid.conf via debian/patches/kubuntu_XY_wrapper>_as_pinhelper.diff, not hcid sources
[11:40] <Tonio_> allee: the wrapper will be applied during the package building right ?
[11:41] <Tonio_> hum there is something that I don't understand.... makes me crazzy
[11:41] <allee> Tonio_: during build: only the patch of the wrapper is written/patched into hcid.conf, and the script itself is added to the pkg
[11:43] <raphink> Riddell: feel free to modify the patch if you think adding the directory is better than changing it ;) hehe
[11:43] <allee> Tonio_: a) download bluez-utils sources, b) search & patch hcid.conf to contain the wrapper c) dh_install pinwrapper /etc/bluetooth  d) debuild; sudo debi
[11:44] <allee> debian/bluez-utils/etc/bluetooth that is
[11:44] <raphink> Riddell: I'm not so good with c++ (never learned) and I didn't know whether this array was used with fixed references (element 0 being used to grep the list of layouts) or entirely 
[11:45] <raphink> Riddell: however I'm happy to learn it would work by adding the /etc/X11/ dir to the arry instead of replacing the /usr/share/X11 one
[11:55] <raphink> oops kubuntu.org doesn't work