 i just found all my edubuntu-devel email!
[12:07] <Kaiser_Sleeps> it was in ubuntu-devel :/ 
[12:07] <ogra> improve your filters :)
[12:07] <Kaiser_Sleeps> ogra: i just did :)
[12:08] <Kaiser_Sleeps> bblish
[06:50] <sniff> hey peeps!
[06:50] <sniff> I just setup an edubuntu server!
[06:51] <sniff> amazing
[07:03] <jsgotangco> nice ;)
[07:04] <sniff> there is a problem, a client can start to load up from the server but then stops :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
[07:07] <sniff> it says "Begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount.....
[07:07] <sniff> [05:54]  <sniff> then it says "done"
[07:07] <sniff>  the system stops there
[07:10] <sniff> jsgotangco can u suggest anything i might do?
[07:15] <highvoltage> sniff: is this the first client you booted from the server?
[07:15] <highvoltage> sniff: you might just need to restart
[07:15] <highvoltage> (the client)
[07:20] <sniff> ok
[07:20] <sniff> i will try
[07:20] <sniff> it is the first time i booted from the server
[09:09] <sniff> hey
[09:10] <sniff> i got the edubuntu ltsp server running and it looks fab. But when the clients load up their fonts and icons are different, doesn't really look any good, does anyone know why this may be?
[09:29] <sniff> hello peeps? can anyone help please?
[09:42] <ogra> sniff, i assume you use the same user on all clients ... gnome-settings-daemon has a bug that prevents it from working if you are logged in multiple times with the same user ...
[09:42] <ogra> use different users
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ogra, hmmm still some issues with lsb
[09:44] <ogra> jsgotangco, the buildds are broken since 2 days ...
[09:44] <ogra> not much i can do
[09:44] <jsgotangco> :/
[09:44] <ogra> the amd64 lsb breakage is something different btw ...
[09:44] <jsgotangco> i'll just do the live first
[09:44] <ogra> its caused by oversizing ...
[09:45] <ogra> live didnt change either due to no buildds running ...
[10:17] <jsgotangco> ogra, edubuntu live seems fine though...
[10:17] <ogra> yes, it wont have changed since last time yoou tried ... :)
[10:18] <jsgotangco> the only difference is that im testing it in a pentium d system now
[10:20] <ogra> oh, ah :)
[10:25] <spacey> ogra: btw, willow works fine in production :)
[10:25] <ogra> yay
[10:25] <spacey> never crasht at least
[10:25] <spacey> :)
[10:26] <ogra> there is still the issue with python-profiler ... i'd really love to know if thats really needed ...
[10:26] <ogra> it would keep it in multiverse :(
[10:26] <spacey> the multiverse thingy
[10:26] <spacey> ye
[10:27] <signifer123> morn...
[10:27] <ogra> but i'm to busy with ltsp and CD builds and that wont change before feature freeze
[10:27] <spacey> if i could do python i would help :p
[10:27] <spacey> but i never touched it
[10:28] <ogra> i'll look at it, but there is not much chance to get it into dapper after feature freeze
[10:29] <jsgotangco> hmm how does Gnome chemistry utils fare?
[10:29] <ogra> there is a lot going on in MOTUSience wrt gnome chemistry utils ...
[10:35] <spacey> maybe someone else here has python skill?
[10:45] <simondawes> need advice pleas. downloaded Edubuntu i386 ISO image twice now. burnt to CD using ISO settings .Tied to install but takes for ever seems to just lock up half way through. i know its not a harware problem as similar downloaded Ubuntu and burn installs fine
[10:46] <jsgotangco> breezy?
[10:49] <TOZTWO> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes says under Known Issues.....
[10:49] <TOZTWO> "During install while the LTSP client environment is being set up, the progress reporting is a bit poor (expect this step to take about 10 min)."
[10:49] <ogra> yeah...
[10:50] <ogra> you can switch to tty3 (alt-f3) to see more progress
[10:51] <simondawes> I'll try this thanks
[11:42] <SiennaLizard> Hello everyone. Has anyone done an Edubuntu LTSP install here? Maybe for a school?
[11:42] <SiennaLizard> Or are we all holding out for Dapper?
[11:54] <ogra> SiennaLizard, there are several schools using edubuntu 
[11:55] <ogra> dapper will have a lot of improvements in ltsp though ... 90% of development in edubuntu happened in tlsp this relase cycle
[11:55] <ogra> *ltsp
[12:13] <SiennaLizard> Cheers, Ogra. That's very good news. It's just things like audio that I don't fully understand with ltsp. I'd rather like to get a load of thin clients for this school I'm working for, but it would be the anciliary things like the local device stuff (sound, USB) that kept me from doing a full roll-out.
[12:14] <ogra> local devices were deferred for next release ... sound is in ...
[12:14] <SiennaLizard> are there any thin clients you'd particularly recommend to work with ltsp? What have you used for testing?
[12:14] <SiennaLizard> i've been practicing with boot floppies and old laptops at the moment...
[12:15] <ogra> the via C3 based ones i tested here are very slow ... 
[12:15] <ogra> booting my amd64 laptop as thin client takes only 15sec though ...
[12:16] <ogra> i'd recommend something PIII based with at least 64MB better 128MB 
[12:17] <ogra> PII should also be fine ... 
[12:17] <ogra> but the fully integrated CPU/sound/graphics based clients really suck ...
[12:17] <signifer123> p2 are like 300 mhz :-P
[12:18] <ogra> thats fine 
[12:18] <signifer123> thin client?
[12:18] <ogra> yup
[12:18] <signifer123> i thoguht it was full client :-p
[12:18] <SiennaLizard> fat client? 
[12:18] <ogra> i mean 500Mhz is still better, but 300 will suffice ...
[12:18] <ogra> i havent done anyy testing with fat clients ...
[12:18] <SiennaLizard> right. cheers, Ogra.
[12:19] <signifer123> standalone pc not fat or thin or dumb :-p
[12:19] <ogra> but 126MB upwards should do ...
[12:19] <ogra> and ~5-600Mhz ...
[12:20] <signifer123> you guys have a thin client gui yet?
[12:20] <signifer123> for automating mroe of the setup etc...
[12:21] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
[12:21] <ogra> working on it for dapper+1
[12:21] <ogra> feel free to help ;)
[12:22] <signifer123> far enough that its in 6.04?
[12:23] <ogra> dapper+1 is 6.10
[12:23] <signifer123> ok
[12:23] <ogra> only the dhcpd.conf editing works so far, i have no time to work on gui stuff currently, need to get all these new nifty features into ltsp first :)
[12:24] <signifer123> :_p
[12:24] <ogra> then i can add guis for everything ;)
[12:27] <signifer123> :)
[12:27] <signifer123> it won't let me add login sessions :(
[12:28] <ogra> ?
[12:28] <ogra> whats "it" ?
[12:29] <signifer123> LTSP manager?
[12:29] <signifer123> does it save yet?
[12:29] <ogra> nope
[12:29] <ogra> as i said, the only working thing yet is the dhcpd.conf handling ...
[12:30] <ogra> adding the lts.conf handling is easy as well ...
[12:30] <signifer123> ohh...
[12:30] <signifer123> well i don't know anything about either config so i couldn't really help that much :-P
[12:30] <ogra> but the login session stuff needs to be prepared in ldm first ... 50% of the code is in there already, but the other 50% are missing
[12:31] <ogra> (ldm heeds a config or session file and code that reads it)
[12:32] <ogra> *needs
[12:32] <signifer123> hows the student cp doing? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png
[12:33] <signifer123> dahh.... it crashed...
[12:33] <ogra> i'll cut out the buttons for vnc and remote execution, so its basically usable for monitoring students and logging them out in dapper ...
[12:33] <signifer123> ok...
[12:34] <_sniff> hey i'm a teacher in china, i'm looking to convert a school's systems to this edubuntu. I must say the idea is fantastic. Right now I;m running a vm network consisting of client and edubuntu server. But there are some problems....
[12:35] <_sniff> most noticeably is that the client has different fonts and the icon scheme is different (much less interesting looking). Also during boot several problems are found with temp files etc.
[12:36] <_sniff> any ideas on how to fix these up? I don't wanna roll this out on 200 systems only to find it has some quirks that i don't know how to iron out
[12:36] <ogra> _sniff, there is a bug in gnome that breaks icon themes if you use the same user twice ...
[12:36] <ogra> use different users and it should be fine
[12:36] <_sniff> ok and what about the fonts?
[12:37] <ogra> thats related 
[12:37] <_sniff> also i don't quite understand about using the same user twice... does this mean each time someone logs on to the computer i must create a new user account?
[12:37] <ogra> there is a tool called gnome-settings-daemon that cares for themes, fonts and icons ... it has the bug ...
[12:38] <ogra> you should have an account for every student ...
[12:38] <_sniff> this isn't the setup i was after
[12:38] <ogra> there is a bug filed in gnomes bugzilla about it, but i dont know how fast they'll fix it 
[12:38] <_sniff> actually my test network only has one client so how did i use the same user twice?
[12:39] <ogra> you are logged in on the server and on the client with the same user i guess
[12:39] <_sniff> ah i think that's right
[12:39] <ogra> :)
[12:39] <_sniff> i'm a bit dumb!
[12:39] <_sniff> ok
[12:40] <_sniff> two other things that bug me.... one is: if a client doesn't support network boot what options are there for starting it up to recognize the network?
[12:41] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
[12:41] <ogra> :)
[12:42] <_sniff> what would i have to do to a stanrd ubuntu/kubuntu installation to make it work the same as edubuntu with regards the serving a clienting (i don't want all the games etc)
[12:43] <ogra> check the wiki for ThinClientHowto
[12:46] <_sniff> is it possible to use the installation cd of edubuntu to install a few files on to potential clients so they can boot and use the server.... or must rom images be made?
[12:47] <ogra> you will need the rom images from rom-o-matic# ...
[12:47] <_sniff> ok understood
[12:48] <_sniff> sorry, but what does it involve to convert and installation of kubuntu or ubuntu into a server so that it can work similarly to edubuntu?  Is it a lot of work?#
[12:49] <ogra> see the ThinClientHowto ... its in fact only five steps you need to do 
[12:49] <ogra> its all on the wiki
[12:49] <_sniff> the page doesn't load for me...
[12:50] <_sniff> hmm
[12:50] <_sniff> isn't it ltsp server setu?
[12:50] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowto
[12:50] <_sniff> ah
[12:50] <_sniff> ogra are u running ubuntu/kubuntu now?
[12:50] <_sniff> thank you that work
[12:51] <ogra> _sniff, i'm writing the ltsp fot it :)
[12:51] <ogra> so yes, i run it 
[12:51] <_sniff> kubuntu?
[12:51] <_sniff> ubuntu?
[12:51] <ogra> ltsp is the same for all three ...
[12:51] <ogra> but i develop edubuntu as well ...
[12:52] <_sniff> well
[12:52] <ogra> i run ubuntu on the laptop i'm currently on... but have also several edubuntu installations here
[12:52] <_sniff> i wish the icon theme from edubuntu could be used in ubuntu as standard, it's much less drab
[12:53] <ogra> you can just install gartoon-icon-theme and select it :)
[12:53] <ogra> the package is in ubuntu as well 
[12:54] <_sniff> gartoon
[12:54] <_sniff> ok that's ace
[12:54] <_sniff> am i right in thinking gnome has a substantially lower drain on system resources?
[12:54] <_sniff> than hde?
[12:54] <_sniff> kde
[12:55] <ogra> not substantially ... but its less, yes 
[12:55] <ogra> KDE will eat about 150MB per thin client on the server, gnome is happy with about 120
[12:55] <_sniff> hmm?
[12:56] <_sniff> the server needs 150mb of ram per client connected?
[12:56] <ogra> with KDE 
[12:56] <ogra> (not connected but per logged in user)
[12:56] <ogra> gnome only needs 100-120
[12:57] <_sniff> so 50 clients=  6gb ram?
[12:57] <ogra> if you want it really low profile, use xubuntu-desktop (xfce)
[12:57] <ogra> yes, about that size ...
[12:57] <_sniff> jesus
[12:57] <_sniff> that's impossible here
[12:57] <ogra> but only if they are logged in simultaneously
[12:58] <_sniff> mmm well the reason why we have 50 computers is because we need that many
[12:58] <ogra> so install xubuntu-desktop, that has a way smaller memory footprint (didnt measure how much, but 32-64MB shoudl be ok)
[12:58] <signifer123> 2 gig ram 5 gig swap?
[12:58] <ogra> you wont be happy if the machine starts swapping ...
[12:59] <SiennaLizard> is that strictly true, ogra? doesn't linux share loaded code between processes to some extent?
[12:59] <_sniff> mmm how do i get the desktop to change to xfce
[12:59] <ogra> SiennaLizard, yes, thats already in that numbers ...
[12:59] <ogra> _sniff, just install xubuntu-desktop, it should just work ...
[12:59] <SiennaLizard> gawd.
[01:00] <ogra> SiennaLizard, there is a table with exact numbers from highvoltage (jonathan carter) on the edubuntu-devel mailing list, look it up in the archive ...
[01:01] <_sniff> what if one is running a vanilla installation of kubuntu or ubuntu... how much does kde and gnome need>?
[01:01] <_sniff> not ltsp or anything
[01:01] <ogra> not less than 256MB 
[01:01] <ogra> and a decent amount of CPU speed
[01:02] <ogra> you *can* run it with 128, but thats no fun at all 
[01:02] <signifer123> evne if you use openbox or ion ?
[01:02] <signifer123> even*
[01:02] <ogra> and will start swapping as soon as you open more than 2 websites in firefox
[01:02] <ogra> signifer123, that was not the question :)
[01:03] <ogra> indeed a *box windowmanager running standalone will need much... but you loose a lot in usability
[01:03] <signifer123> ogra, i know but i thought maybe the lesser ones would run faster on lower system...
[01:03] <signifer123> bit late :-p
[01:03] <_sniff> what does gnome need? and what does kde  need?
[01:03] <ogra> and in case you start a gnome or kde program, it still loads all the librarys and tools that are needed in the background
[01:04] <ogra> _sniff, standalone ? 
[01:04] <_sniff> yes
[01:04] <ogra> see above ... 
[01:04] <_sniff> kde and gnome have the same memory requirements?
[01:04] <ogra> wo work fluid with them i'd recommend at least 256MB 
[01:04] <ogra> gnome has a bit less memory reqs ...
[01:05] <_sniff> these memory requirements are greater than win xp
[01:05] <ogra> but i wouldnt run either of them with 128MB if you dont want unhappy users
[01:05] <_sniff> mm i see
[01:05] <ogra> it runs with 128MB ...
[01:05] <signifer123> knoppix says you cna run it with kde at 96 mb
[01:05] <ogra> signifer123, a recent one ? 
[01:05] <_sniff> what would you use for shit computers with like 64mb?
[01:06] <ogra> _sniff, ltsp and a powerful server
[01:06] <signifer123> *box
[01:06] <signifer123> or that^^
[01:06] <_sniff> but standalone systems
[01:06] <ogra> _sniff, xfce might work fine with 64MB ... i never tried it on such small systems 
[01:06] <_sniff> my friend has a gay computer with 64mb, if i change it from windows to linux, what can be done?
[01:07] <_sniff> ah alright
[01:07] <ogra> use a "server" install (its in fact a minimal install with a weird name) and install xubuntu-desktop
[01:07] <ogra> xubuntu is for low profile systems
[01:07] <_sniff> i see
[01:08] <ogra> but i dont know how low that goes
[01:08] <_sniff> thanks for that
[01:08] <_sniff> sounds about what i was looking for
[01:08] <_sniff> guess we'll find out
[01:08] <ogra> yes
[01:08] <ogra> would be nice if you could report back, so we'd have some hints on the wiki for other people in the same situation 
[01:08] <signifer123> Thinkpad 600E
[01:08] <signifer123> PII 400MHz
[01:08] <signifer123> 128 MB RAM
[01:08] <signifer123> 6 GB hard drive --works decently
[01:08] <_sniff> i hope to god ubuntu doesn't go the same way as suse. Suse used to be my fave but it's got so much damn eyecandy it goes like a turtle
[01:08] <SiennaLizard> ogra, those stats were interesting, but not as off-putting as I thought they would be. The Mall school in Richmond used a dual-core system with 2 gigs of RAM to deal with 20 machines, or so, so that adds up nicely.
[01:09] <signifer123> s odoes 64 meg p450
[01:09] <signifer123> so does*
[01:09] <ogra> SiennaLizard, the shared mem might scale with the amount of users....
[01:10] <SiennaLizard> _sniff the nice thing about Ubuntu is you can choose your eyecandy and your window manager just through adding the packages with synaptic and restarting GDM.
[01:10] <_sniff> are the error messagaes that i see when starting a thin client anything to worry about?  Things like could not mount tmp directory etc.?
[01:10] <SiennaLizard> _sniff, when you log in, pick the WM you want out of the sessions list.
[01:10] <ogra> _sniff, nope 
[01:10] <_sniff> yeah but i like kde etc
[01:11] <_sniff> so why does it write in big RED letters fail, when actually it doesn't matter
[01:11] <ogra> _sniff, they are caused by starting (in ltsp unused) services on a read only filesystem ...
[01:11] <_sniff> allright that's fantastic new
[01:11] <_sniff> news
[01:11] <ogra> the errors (and the services) are gone in the next release :)
[01:11] <SiennaLizard> ogra, one of the messages refers to a fsck problem. Are there modifications that I could make to stop these checks trying to run?
[01:11] <_sniff> ok cool stuff
[01:11] <SiennaLizard> ogra. ahh. you've answered my question!
[01:12] <ogra> and in fact ltsp has a bootsplash now that would hide tham anyway :)
[01:12] <_sniff> wow a boot splash would be appreciated
[01:12] <SiennaLizard> that's very good news.
[01:12] <ogra> its in the dapper release (6.04)
[01:12] <_sniff> how do you guys reply to a certain user in this irc?
[01:13] <_sniff> i haven't used irc before a few days ago
[01:13] <_sniff> i'm using Konversation
[01:13] <ogra> _sniff, you mean the highlighting ? 
[01:13] <_sniff> yes
[01:13] <ogra> just say the name of the user in front of your sentencs
[01:13] <_sniff> it automaticall puts USERNAME, xxxxxxxx
[01:13] <ogra> the client highlights the line then 
[01:13] <_sniff> you must type it?
[01:13] <ogra> yes
[01:13] <ogra> _sniff, 
[01:13] <_sniff> annoying
[01:13] <ogra> see
[01:13] <_sniff> but that's so hard
[01:14] <ogra> try with the first three letters and hit the tab key
[01:14] <ogra> +or two ...
[01:14] <_sniff> ogra: 
[01:14] <ogra> depends hown many people with a similar name are in the room 
[01:14] <_sniff> + or two?
[01:14] <ogra> _sniff, :)
[01:14] <_sniff> og  
[01:14] <_sniff> ogra: 
[01:14] <_sniff> ah i see
[01:15] <ogra> in this room o+tab would suffice to catch me
[01:15] <_sniff> ogra: 
[01:15] <_sniff> yeah that's right
[01:15] <ogra> s requires at least 3 letters here 
[01:15] <_sniff> ok that's somewhat easier
[01:18] <_sniff> how do i set my ubuntu up to be a dhcp server>
[01:18] <_sniff> so that i can use ltsp?
[01:18] <SiennaLizard> just press tab more times to move through them.
[01:18] <SiennaLizard> _sniff, you can either use the standalone package.
[01:18] <ogra> _sniff, ThinClientHowto explains it 
[01:19] <SiennaLizard> _sniff, or use a dhcp server you've already got running on that box
[01:19] <_sniff> erm
[01:19] <_sniff> just installing ltsp starts a dhcp server rigth?
[01:19] <SiennaLizard> I'm using the standalone one quite succesfully.
[01:20] <ogra> _sniff, yes, but you need to adjust the config as described in the howto or in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
[01:20] <_sniff> this is really cool, i wanted to set this up at home, where we have 3 computers, 1 of which can be a ltsp server. Using ubuntu means I don't give my parents a bunch of kids games to look at
[01:20] <SiennaLizard> you can start it with /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server
[01:20] <SiennaLizard> sorry, /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server
[01:20] <SiennaLizard>  restart
[01:21] <_sniff> what about setting up a dedicated dhcp server on the machine?
[01:21] <SiennaLizard> that's part of the ltsp standalone package.
[01:22] <SiennaLizard> _sniff, I think you need to get a non-production box and the howto, and have a go. That's all I did, and I'm no pro :-)
[01:22] <_sniff> wouldn't it be ok to include a package selection in ubuntu installation so ltsp can be installed first. And also can replace evolution with tbord etc
[01:22] <_sniff> alright i'm all for having a crack
[01:22] <ogra> have a look at kickstart, that enables such setups ...
[01:23] <_sniff> can't get another box, but i'm running 3 vms on my laptop as we speak, right now i'm inside a kubuntu vm
[01:23] <_sniff> kickstart is where?
[01:23] <_sniff> ah
[01:24] <_sniff> in wiki
[01:24] <ogra> :)
[01:25] <_sniff> i would wipe windows off my laptop completely and just run ubuntu, but i can't get the sound to work
[01:25] <_sniff> or 3d acceleration
[01:25] <_sniff> or 5 button mouse
[01:25] <_sniff> or hotplugging usb
[01:26] <_sniff> or play mp3s
[01:26] <ogra> sounds like you have a faily old laptop with broken acpi ...
[01:26] <_sniff> no
[01:26] <ogra> try booting with noacpi ...
[01:26] <_sniff> sony vaio fs-115e, bought it several months ago
[01:26] <ogra> apart from mp3 the other stuff works for 98% of our users
[01:27] <ogra> mp3 needs some manual intervention... since we cant legally ship the codec
[01:27] <_sniff> also, when i want to restart or shutdown the system sends the Sigkill or whatever, and that's it a blank screen... and never restarts
[01:27] <ogra> thats acip 
[01:27] <ogra> *acpi
[01:27] <_sniff> so i disable it?
[01:27] <_sniff> install with no acpi is this what i must do?
[01:28] <ogra> yes, try that ... just add noacpi to the end of our kernel line on boot (hit esc if grub shows up, then you can edit it on the fly)
[01:28] <ogra> *our/your 
[01:28] <_sniff> when grub shows i hit esc
[01:29] <ogra> yep
[01:29] <_sniff> it it possible for me to adjust screen brightness?
[01:29] <ogra> then you have the option to edit the kernel line ...
[01:29] <_sniff> ok i edit the kernel line with "no acpi" ?
[01:29] <ogra> i think so ... but i have no recent sony hardware here 
[01:30] <_sniff> in my ubuntu system it detects my screen and gives me a slider to adjust the brightness but it makes no difference
[01:30] <_sniff> the fn keys don't work either
[01:30] <ogra> did you report a bug, so the developer can fix it ? 
[01:30] <_sniff> no
[01:30] <_sniff> which one should i report?
[01:30] <ogra> do that then ;) 
[01:30] <_sniff> so many things that don't work
[01:31] <_sniff> the latest suse (10) most things work, apart from screen brightness. Also i have sound but the system mixer and volume control on the app have no effect
[01:31] <ogra> most of them are related to the fact that sony ships broken acpi BIOSes that report wrong values ...
[01:32] <ogra> as i said, you can work around that by disabling acpi ...
[01:32] <_sniff> what benefits do i lose by disabling acpi?
[01:32] <ogra> no idea, i usually dont buy broken hardware ... 
[01:33] <ogra> but i guess power management will suffer a bit
[01:33] <_sniff> i guess non of it is working at the moment anyway
[01:33] <_sniff> the only thing that seems to be ok, is hibernating
[01:34] <ogra> somebody should kick sony for not being standard compliant ...
[01:34] <_sniff> but like i said ubuntu cannot even restart or shutdown my system (mandriva, suse and auditor all can do this!)
[01:34] <_sniff> so which manufacturers of laptops are standard compliant or have a high chance of working with linux?
[01:34] <ogra> that will work with the noacpi option ...
[01:34] <ogra> i guess sound will as well
[01:35] <ogra> ibm is fine, dell is about 70% good, 30% crap ... toshiba is fine apart from having a strange hotkey handling etc ...
[01:35] <ogra> there are lists on the wiki
[01:35] <_sniff> mmm i dislike ibm
[01:36] <_sniff> dell are one of the most gay companies
[01:36] <_sniff> and i've got nothing against toshiba
[01:36] <ogra> some acers might be fine as well ... i have one that works fine with recent kernels, but is a bit buggy with older ones ...
[01:37] <_sniff> mmmm i've seen quite a few decent acer laptops i reckon they're good
[01:37] <_sniff> ok so do i need to do "no acpi" every system restart?
[01:38] <ogra> nope, if it works with the test (its noacpi without space btw) you can add it to your grub setup... see the wiki 
[01:38] <_sniff> the wiki
[01:38] <ogra> yes :)
[01:38] <_sniff> i search for acpi and get 0 results
[01:39] <ogra> look at the laptop stuff, sorry i have a meeting now...
[01:39] <_sniff> alright
[01:40] <_sniff> but thank you very much for so much help
[01:40] <_sniff> really appreciate it
[01:40] <ogra> its all in the wiki ... anywhere :)
[01:50] <_sniff> hey
[01:50] <_sniff> can internet users connect to a ltsp server?
[01:50] <_sniff> i mean is it a security vulnerability at all running ltsp?
[01:51] <signifer123> depends on your setup
[01:51] <signifer123> network setup
[01:51] <signifer123> or config setup
[01:53] <signifer123> commonly configuration o
[01:53] <signifer123> no
[01:54] <signifer123> unless the hacker spends his life porting all of the apps he needs to forge ip's
[02:45] <jsgotangco> ogra, hey what do we call our installation for workstation/server? types? modes? eh?
[02:46] <ogra> ?
[02:47] <ogra> can you elaborate ?
[02:48] <jsgotangco> ogra, what do we call them, "workstation mode" "workstation install" "workstation type"
[02:49] <jsgotangco> "server mode" "server install" "server type (of install)"
[02:50] <jsgotangco> or maybe i'm just being too detailed
[02:50] <ogra> i'd say server install 
[02:50] <Yagisan> I'd go for install too myself
[02:50] <ogra> but i'm still discussing that to be renamed to minimal install
[02:50] <jsgotangco> yes instead of server
[02:51] <ogra> its a sabdfl decision thats not easy to change
[02:51] <jsgotangco> argghh
[02:51] <ogra> see the thread in ubuntu-devel from ~2 months ago
[02:57] <flint> ogra, you awake?
[02:58] <ogra> flint, yes but pretty busy, i just broke my main machine
[02:58] <flint> highvoltage, jonathan did is spell it right this morning...
[02:58] <highvoltage> flint: :)
[02:59] <flint> ogra, excellent.  jut a little good news, the only part of flight 3.1 that did not work was the chroot (and the serial mouse)
[02:59] <ogra> yup
[02:59] <highvoltage> hmmm. how do i make someone permanent opps...
[02:59] <ogra> i know
[02:59] <ogra> highvoltage, i doubt thats permanent
[02:59] <flint> i excpect the serial mouse not to work.  I will tell you why that is important.... if you are interested.
[02:59] <ogra> i know why thats important
[03:00] <zakame> hi all
[03:00] <flint> ogra, ollie, when you say broken, did you use a hammer, axe or shotgun? :^)
[03:00] <ogra> thats why i did put a whole day into getting inputattach in shape at the london distro sprint
[03:00] <ogra> flint, something wiped my HD ...
[03:00] <flint> ogra, i realise that I am distressingly cheerful about your progress but...
[03:01] <flint> ogra, that is harsh.  ok I am going to stop this and do mondo/mindy for the rest of the day.  You are an inspiration ollie!!!
[03:02] <ogra> flint, i'll ping the mailing list if there is a usable CD to test ... currnetly the whole gnome gets updated, there is no point in CD testing today
[03:03] <flint> just glad to finally be able to report in... thanks.  will hassle some other innocent developer in the mean time...
[03:03] <flint> ogra, a cigi break is in order eh?
[03:11] <jsgotangco> :D
[03:15] <ogra> jsgotangco, ask
[03:16] <ogra> flint, i had 5 cigarettes in 2 minutes ... :)
[03:16] <ogra> all saved, everything in order again 
[03:16] <jsgotangco> ogra, is it still updated?
[03:16] <ogra> DONT TEST TODAYS i386 CD !!!
[03:16] <jsgotangco> yay
[03:17] <ogra> jsgotangco, yup
[03:17] <jsgotangco> ogra, i mean the application not the db :D
[03:17] <ogra> 199865 datasets ...
[03:17] <jsgotangco> does it still reside in your machine somewhere?
[03:17] <ogra> it will see some bugfixes for dapper
[03:18] <ogra> yup, but i have a new machine with tape backup and mirrored scsi drives as well as a backup here ...
[03:18] <jsgotangco> ogra, the reason i ask is that we don't have a definitive HCL and that data could be useful...
[03:18] <ogra> so the data is safe ... i'll see when i get time for the sql stuff
[03:18] <ogra> you can access the datasets directly ...
[03:19] <ogra> wget http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/fe203971e939f3d14440e3257d5ead06.xml.bz2 will get you the dataset locally 
[03:19] <jsgotangco> that's a lot :D
[03:19] <ogra> especially if you think about the fact that its all in a single folder :)
[03:20] <jsgotangco> arghhh
[03:20] <ogra> its a real ext3 stresstest ...
[03:20] <jsgotangco> how do you decrpyt each dataset?
[03:20] <ogra> (thats why i had to care for backing up everything ;) )
[03:20] <ogra> its not encrypted ... just open it in an editor
[03:21] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[03:21] <jsgotangco> this could pose a challenge
[03:21] <ogra> but dont do a wget http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/*.xml.bz2 please, it will make me poor and need 5.5G on your disk
[03:22] <jsgotangco> doh..and i was supposed to paste it just now
[03:23] <ogra> i have a dvd backup here that goes up to 170000 i could send you ...
[03:24] <ogra> the missing 20000 sets will mainly be dapper ...
[03:24] <jsgotangco> well even just 10 of the dataset will do i'm just thinking of wa y to make it presentable
[03:24] <ogra> yeah, so pull some sets ...
[03:25] <ogra> i was thinking about a parser that presents the logs additionally to cpu and mem at least ...
[03:25] <Yagisan> ogra: excuse the dumb question - but what is this hwdb you are talking about ?
[03:26] <ogra> hwdb.ubuntu.com+
[03:26] <ogra> err omit the +
[03:27] <jsgotangco> Submissions Total: 199865 Today: 25459
[03:27] <jsgotangco> wow is that Today real?
[03:27] <ogra> yeahm the cronjob isnt running
[03:27] <ogra> nope
[03:27] <ogra> daily is about 500 to 800 ... depending on the day
[03:27] <ogra> weekends are less
[03:27] <jsgotangco> and it spikes upon release
[03:28] <ogra> up to 1500 
[03:28] <jsgotangco> 1500 machines sold to damnation not bad
[03:30] <zakame> damnation?
[03:30] <Yagisan> um - what's the use of this hwdb ?
[03:30] <ogra> Yagisan, you have a hwdb client app in the systemtools menu ...
[03:31] <jsgotangco> Yagisan, its ogra's little spyware
[03:31] <jsgotangco> joke
[03:31] <ogra> it collects all data from the device manager, dmesg and xorg logs and does a little questionnaire
[03:31] <jsgotangco> (its actually optional)
[03:31] <ogra> oh, and xorg.config ...
[03:31] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:31] <Yagisan> well - if I had a default install I would, but I don't. Does it work on headless boxes ?
[03:32] <ogra> nope
[03:32] <jsgotangco> nope
[03:32] <jsgotangco> (that's actually a good idea though)
[03:32] <ogra> if you have a non headless box, install hwdb-client
[03:32] <ogra> jsgotangco, its planned for the rewrite i want to do since breezy 
[03:32] <Yagisan> oh - I'll run it on my ltsp server then
[03:33] <Yagisan> all the others will missout - and they have some interesting things in them
[03:33] <jsgotangco> 199865 datasets is the ultimate HCL list though if properply formatted
[03:33] <Yagisan> (can you say geforce4 in a p2 233 - overkill there)
[03:33] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:33] <jsgotangco> poor GPU
[03:34] <ogra> you could try to use the gpu as fpu :)
[03:34] <ogra> just patch the kernel a bit 
[03:34] <Yagisan> it was all I had left in my spare parts box
[03:34] <jsgotangco> boy would i love to dig in to your spare parts box
[03:34] <ogra> lol
[03:35] <ogra> no kernel hacker, sorry :)
[03:35] <jsgotangco> you don't get a geforce4 in a box everyday
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ogra, seriously though, i'd like to branch the hwdb-client...and just study for now...
[03:36] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: It has parts from my first 286 to whatever survived the last power surge/storm/flood/act of god/child so it is an eclectic collection of parts
[03:36] <ogra> the client is in my bzr archive on people.u.c
[03:36] <ogra> the server is a 100 line python script ...
[03:36] <ogra> (or less, never counted lines there)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:38] <ogra> dont expect anything, the code is a weird mess ...
[03:38] <bobulator> hey... anyone got any idea why this thin client wont accept a password?
[03:38] <jsgotangco> hrmmm wlan detection
[03:39] <ogra> bobulator, check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
[03:39] <bobulator> ta...
[03:39] <jsgotangco> oh cool it even has sean's manual
[03:39] <ogra> bobulator, there should be a line for your current host ...
[03:40] <ogra> if you changed the ip of the interface the thin clients are on post install, you need to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys again ...
[03:41] <bobulator> i dont think i changed the ip address, but the only ip addresses in there are the server
[03:42] <bobulator> it gets loads of write errors when it boots too?
[03:42] <ogra> yes, thats fixed in dapper ...
[03:42] <ogra> its cause because in breezy you still use a complete default system and the apps are not designed to run on a readonly system ...
[03:43] <bobulator> is dapper still beta?
[03:43] <ogra> none of the apps that start with an error is used, its just cosmetic and slows down the boot
[03:43] <ogra> yup
[03:43] <bobulator> and how can i fix it? 8)
[03:44] <ogra> wait for dapper ? 
[03:44] <bobulator> :p
[03:44] <ogra> you can install usplash in the client chroot ...
[03:44] <ogra> that will hide about 50% of the errors
[03:44] <bobulator> why is it doing it anyway?
[03:44] <ogra> read above
[03:44] <bobulator> ohhhh
[03:44] <bobulator> i gets ya, ok
[03:44] <ogra> :)
[03:45] <bobulator> so how do i do that usplash thing?
[03:45] <ogra> i've thrown out all unneeded services in dapper and fixed the remaining ones  ...
[03:45] <ogra> no errors in dapper ...
[03:45] <bobulator> cool :D
[03:45] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install usplash
[03:45] <ogra> should do it ...
[03:46] <ogra> worst case you need to copy the sources.list from the server and run apt-get update with the same chroot command ... in case it doesnt work ...
[03:47] <bobulator> hmm it wont get the package
[03:47] <ogra> whats the error ? 
[03:47] <bobulator> 'unable to fetch some archives;
[03:48] <bobulator> looks like its trying to get it off a cd?
[03:48] <bobulator> oooh, maybe ive not edited the sources list
[03:48] <ogra> yes, as i told you ... copy the sources.list and follow the advise ...
[03:49] <bobulator> ok... im on the server now. not sure what you mean? sorry...
[03:49] <bobulator> just edit in the backports?
[03:49] <ogra> nope
[03:49] <ogra> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt
[03:49] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update
[03:49] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install usplash
[03:51] <mhz> JaneW: hi, ping
[03:51] <bobulator> hmm its still trying to get from the cd?
[03:52] <ogra> mhz, she's ill
[03:52] <mhz> ogra: oooh, thx
[03:52] <ogra> spacey, eek, that will need evil hacks to ldm
[03:53] <spacey> hehe, we gonna fix it up with old style ltsp. shouldn't be too hard
[03:53] <spacey> with that
[03:53] <flint> ogra, what's up with JaneW?
[03:53] <spacey> gdm has the functionality
[03:53] <ogra> ah, k... gdm should work
[03:53] <ogra> flint, a cold with fever etc
[03:54] <spacey> ogra: but it would be a useful feature in the future for ldm :P
[03:54] <flint> ogra, bummer...
[03:54] <spacey> although you would need a different approach
[03:54] <spacey> i guess
[03:54] <ogra> spacey, pretty hard to do secure 
[03:55] <spacey> yeh
[03:55] <spacey> as far as autologin is secure :)
[03:55] <ogra> heh
[03:55] <spacey> besides that i mean
[03:55] <spacey> :p
[03:56] <ogra> the thing is that you need the password file in the chroot for that ...
[03:56] <ogra> thats pretty bad
[03:56] <spacey> why?
[03:56] <spacey> that wouldn't solve anything
[03:57] <ogra> the login manager needs to know the sccounts ...
[03:57] <ogra> *accounts
[03:57] <spacey> you can fetch it from hostname i think
[03:57] <spacey> have to configure the dhcp server to send hostnames to the clients
[03:57] <spacey> and configure the thinclients to fetch that one
[03:58] <spacey> but since its over ssh, you would need a not so private ssh key to login automaticly
[03:59] <ogra> you still need an account name ...
[03:59] <bobulator> arghhh, compouters are shit
[03:59] <spacey> ogra: same as hostname
[04:00] <ogra> spacey, hmm, that would need a host account for every host ... hard to automate
[04:01] <spacey> jup
[04:01] <spacey> but possible
[04:01] <flint> could you give out the hostname when you give out the lease?
[04:01] <ogra> flint, i still dont have the account on the server ...
[04:02] <flint> ogra, i mean the host account could create as part of the lease script... 
[04:02] <ogra> eeek evil ...
[04:02] <flint> ogra, I stay up at night practicing stupid questions... :^)
[04:02] <spacey> flint: dhcp server can send the hostname
[04:02] <ogra> flint, arent you security consultant ? 
[04:03] <flint> ogra, note the distinction EX-security consultant.  
[04:03] <ogra> lol
[04:03] <flint> ogra, I want to git-er-done... anyway you said it is over a secure pipe
[04:03] <spacey> not really
[04:03] <flint> ogra, and while it may appear that I am on the pipe with this suggestion...
[04:04] <spacey> if the private key is in the chroot
[04:04] <spacey> or maybe that doesn't matter
[04:04] <spacey> anyway
[04:04] <flint> ogra, keep in mind that these would be fresh, every time they are made from skel.
[04:04] <flint> ogra, aw but is sooo good...
[04:05] <ogra> heh
[04:05] <flint> ogra, another bad idea is could I help with the serial mouse problem?
[04:05] <flint> ogra, got another bad idea...
[04:05] <ogra> flint, its solved since last week 
[04:06] <flint> ogra, ...rats...
[04:06] <ogra> we just need inputattach on the CD ...
[04:06] <flint> oh well back to creating havoc in the universe.  Glad you got your axe back ollie.
[04:07] <ogra> which was shuffled serveral times since we couldnt agree which metapackage it should be in
[04:07] <ogra> it found its final place now, but now the CD is broken#
[04:08] <flint> ogra, the fun never stops...
[04:08] <flint> ogra, back to mondo/mindi
[04:23] <bob> so ogra, sorry to be so thick, let me get this straight... 1)the reason it wont let us log in is because theres something wrong with the network setup adn its not allowing an ssh session? and 2)the things that fail at startup dont really matter
[04:24] <ogra> 2 is right 
[04:25] <ogra> for 1, you can create a root password in the chroot and check /ver/log/ldm.log on the client ...
[04:25] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
[04:25] <bob> what is the chroot, sorry?
[04:25] <ogra> then boot the client and switch to tty1 (ctrl-alt-f1)
[04:25] <ogra> there log in as root
[04:25] <ogra> and check the logfile
[04:26] <bob> ok, ta...
[04:26] <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386 is the chroot the client mounts via nfs
[04:26] <bob> is opt where the clients recieve their image from?
[04:27] <bob> ah, cool :)
[04:28] <ogra> Yagisan, we need the opportunity for ops to kick trolls... highvoltage made me an op, no idea why ...
[04:29] <ogra> :)
[04:30] <ogra> bob, yes, /opt is it ... and with the chroot command you can pretend /opt/ltsp/i386 to be / and perform actions in there
[04:30] <Yagisan> :) I find it more fun when the trolls have no idea they are about to be kicked
[04:30] <Yagisan> anyway I should be in bed
[04:30] <ogra> night 
[04:31] <bob> ahh i gets ya... althjough i think itll take a while to settle in
[04:32] <bob> ldm.leg is empty
[04:32] <bob> .log
[04:33] <bob> and you meant /var/log/ldm, yeah?
[04:33] <ogra> /var/log/ldm.log
[04:34] <ogra> yup
[04:34] <bob> empty
[04:34] <ogra> you need to produce the error indeed to have something in ther
[04:34] <bob> this is bad?
[04:34] <ogra> so try a login first, then look inside the file :)
[04:35] <bob> i gets ya :)
[04:35] <bob> 'didnt get right output from the greeter'
[04:35] <bob> want the rest?
[04:35] <ogra> something ssh related ? 
[04:36] <bob> cant see it... here we go
[04:36] <bob> "traceback (msot recent call last)
[04:36] <ogra> like "authentication failed" or "remote host closed connection" etc ...
[04:37] <ogra> ugh, traceback ? 
[04:37] <ogra> thats evil
[04:37] <bob> file "/usr/sbin/ldm, line 93, in ? ldm.run()
[04:37] <ogra> thats a default edubuntu install ? 
[04:37] <bob> yarrr
[04:38] <ogra> nothing tweaked at all ? 
[04:38] <bob> nope... what could we have tweaked by accident?
[04:38] <ogra> installed from the edubuntu breezy iso ? 
[04:38] <bob> yup
[04:38] <ogra> hmm
[04:39] <ogra> you cant tweak anything in the chroot without the chroot command i gave you above
[04:39] <bob> hmm, maybe me faffing around with the commands you gave me earlier changed something...
[04:39] <bob> could have messed something up
[04:41] <bob> hmm the other problem si theres 2 dhcp servers floating around coz the firmware o the router is a tad buggy and you cant turn it off, although im guessing it doesnt matter too much...
[04:42] <ogra> but you obviously get the clients booting, so dhcp wont be an issue
[04:42] <bob> yeah...
[04:43] <ogra> wait a second, i have to rush into a meeting
[04:44] <bob> thats cool :)
[05:03] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:08] <bob> ahha, chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update is trying to connect to 1.0.0.0 fo some reason
[05:43] <paolob> Hi guys! I changed the network IPs (in /etc/network/interfaces and in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and in /etc/hosts), and now the clients boot but doesn't permit login in gnome. Any hint?
[05:44] <paolob> Before, the server was 10.152.0.1, and now it's 10.152.0.10
[05:58] <paolob_> Hi guys! Anyone knows if it is possible that the edubuntu server has a IP with the last number <> 1? i.e., could it be 10.152.58.10, or must it be mandatorily 10.152.58.1?
[05:58] <ogra> paolob, that doesnt matter ...
[05:58] <ogra> note taht you need to run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server if you changed the ip 
[10:57] <signifer123> good afternoon
[10:57] <Burgwork> sa;lit
[10:57] <Lord_Athur> hi
[10:57] <Lord_Athur> hi signifer123 
[10:58] <Burgwork> salut even
[10:58] <Lord_Athur> hi Burgwork 
[11:50] <mhz_dishes> ogra: can i have your geek opinion on this, please? http://mhz.homelinux.org/tcwiki/MauricioHernandez/ScrapBook/XfceDesktop
[11:50] <mhz_dishes> ogra: I mean the CSS, unless you like XFCE4 in balck