[12:18] <BishopT> mhz: I like that design. Not everyone has a scrolly mouse, so the menu is closer to the scrollbar, I wish more sites would put menuss on the right side.
[07:13] <jsgotangco> ogra, it doesn't seem to build?
[10:08] <ogra> jsgotangco, hmm, seems serpentine is broken
[10:15] <jsgotangco> well even the meta package isn't installable
[10:24] <ogra> yes, it depends on serpentine
[10:38] <lucasvo> is it possible to start up gnome and kde at the same time?
[10:38] <lucasvo> I have some strange mix
[10:39] <lucasvo> I have gnome-toolbars but the kde bars as well
[10:39] <lucasvo> :)
[10:39] <ogra> known bug ...
[10:40] <lucasvo> how can I fix it?
[10:42] <ogra> you cant, wait for the devs to do it :)
[10:42] <lucasvo> ok
[10:42] <jsgotangco> that should have been fixed a while back
[10:42] <jsgotangco> now its udev mixups
[10:44] <ogra> jsgotangco, it was reported first on the weekend ... what do you expect ? 
[10:47] <Yagisan> G'day all
[10:48] <jsgotangco> ogra, :D
[10:48] <jsgotangco> kvetch! kvetch! kvetch!
[10:49] <Yagisan> man - I had a shit day with customers. damm cunt didn't want to pay after ordering parts (that I don't normally stock), and after they were installed.
[10:49] <Yagisan> they thought theyed just take the system home with them
[10:50] <jsgotangco> happy valentine's day ogra 
[10:50] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:50] <Yagisan> s/theyed/they would/
[10:50] <lucasvo> :P
[10:51] <ogra> lucasvo, just install it ... its in universe 
[10:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, thanks :) 
[10:51] <ogra> happy valentine
[10:51] <lucasvo> ogra: and it works?
[10:51] <Yagisan> and then they were unhappy when I ripped they box open and pulled the parts out.
[10:51] <ogra> lucasvo, no idea 
[10:52] <ogra> but its in since yesterday
[10:52] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:52] <jsgotangco> feed the crack
[10:52] <lucasvo> oh
[10:52] <lucasvo> ok
[10:52] <Yagisan> lucasvo: got a geforce 7800 supper delux sli bling bling card ? then maybe
[10:53] <lucasvo> no
[10:53] <lucasvo> Maxtor 5 year old 
[10:53] <lucasvo> how can I find out if dualhead is supported?
[10:54] <Yagisan> lucasvo: then why ? I doubt xgl will work well on an older card. 
[10:55] <Yagisan> lucasvo: actually I wonder why it *needs* pixel shaders to do some of it's work.
[10:55] <Yagisan> ogra: the hwdb - is it only supposed to show my cpu, ram and video details ?
[10:56] <ogra> Yagisan, currently yes ...
[10:57] <Yagisan> ogra: ok. I was wondering why there was nothing about my sound, network or tv tuner etc there
[10:58] <ogra> its all there, just not displayed 
[10:58] <ogra> (and it most likely wont until we have the zope sql interface to handle it ...
[11:00] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:02] <Yagisan> ogra: is it normal to only test the first sound card found ?
[11:03] <ogra> yes, thats a feature i havent implemented yet ...
[11:04] <Yagisan> ogra: ok. well, my puny little ltsp server is at http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=a8c596e2ff15fd3fd85c40f8afb59fa8
[11:05] <Yagisan> which is yours ?
[11:20] <lucasvo> ogra: I'll lend you hardware if you convince mark to develop xubuntu
[11:20] <lucasvo> a hx4700 :P
[11:20] <ogra> lucasvo, we have a huge datacenter, no need for more hardware :)
[11:20] <ogra> xubuntu will be in main in dapper
[11:20] <lucasvo> cool
[11:21] <ogra> so it will be on the edubunntu DVD ;)
[11:21] <lucasvo> edubuntu dvd=main?
[11:21] <lucasvo> ogra: is it possible to make an installation option to install a slim wm?
[11:21] <ogra> yup, the DVDs hold all of main, a live and a install image
[11:21] <Yagisan> will that be single, or dual layer dvd ?
[11:22] <ogra> Yagisan, an iso image
[11:22] <lucasvo> ogra: > 4.7GB?
[11:22] <lucasvo> I would like to have a gnome GUI install tool
[11:23] <Yagisan> lucasvo: actually it's 4.4GB for single layer
[11:23] <ogra> look at releases.ubuntu.com ...
[11:23] <lucasvo> so I can just run an install tool out of the live cd to install it on the machine
[11:25] <Yagisan> what we need is a nice portable ogra tool, for when things go wrong. It needs to come with edubuntu by default, as we may need it before it is possible to "sudo aptitude install ogra" ;)
[11:26] <ogra> lol
[11:26] <ogra> so you support cloning ? 
[11:26] <ogra> lucasvo, yes, have a look at espresso once its on the liveCD
[11:26] <lucasvo> ogra: no, I prefer robots, they don't get tired :P
[11:27] <lucasvo> ogra: and what about the xfce install option for thin clients?
[11:27] <Yagisan> ogra: what do you call identical twins ? quite clearly they are clones, but only physically, because personality wise, they are different.
[11:27] <ogra> lucasvo, you can install it afterwards ...
[11:28] <Yagisan> lucasvo: what's the point of xfce on a thin client ?
[11:28] <lucasvo> Yagisan: faster
[11:28] <Yagisan> all the work is done on the server
[11:28] <lucasvo> I mean on the server
[11:28] <lucasvo> I said FOR and not ON
[11:28] <lucasvo> I mean that one can choose between xfce or gnome as standard wm on server 
[11:29] <lucasvo> but if I install xubuntu on breezy, the thin clients don't start up with xfce
[11:29] <ogra> if you give me any opportunity to stuff it on the CD, we can think about it for dapper+1 or +2
[11:29] <Yagisan> I get you now.
[11:30] <lucasvo> where is the dapper+1 roadmap?
[11:30] <ogra> dapper isnt out yet ...
[11:30] <lucasvo> ogra: mark will continue the edubuntu project?
[11:30] <ogra> why shouldnt he ?
[11:30] <lucasvo> ogra: there aren't any drafts
[11:30] <ogra> nope
[11:30] <lucasvo> ogra: because it isn't sucessful enough?
[11:30] <ogra> we make our specs at the conference after the release ...
[11:30] <ogra> what ? 
[11:31] <Yagisan> lucasvo: ???
[11:31] <ogra> its pretty successful
[11:31] <lucasvo> yeah I know
[11:31] <lucasvo> but I don't know what he expects
[11:31] <ogra> look at distrowatch ...
[11:31] <ogra> we're in the top 100 ...
[11:31] <lucasvo> yeah
[11:31] <Yagisan> I look forward to full CJK support out of the box for edubuntu
[11:31] <lucasvo> I didn't mean it serious
[11:31] <lucasvo> CJK?
[11:32] <ogra> Yagisan, we have scim in dapper ... it will be in edubuntu too
[11:32] <Yagisan> Chinese, Japanese, Korean
[11:32] <lucasvo> ah
[11:33] <Yagisan> ogra: I know. I'm looking for "out-of-the-box" not add on after install
[11:34] <Yagisan> that actually is my biggest gripe with hoary and breezy. CJK didn't work out-of-the-box, and it regressed in breezy :(
[11:34] <ogra> Yagisan, i'm talking about out of the box as well
[11:35] <Yagisan> as in on the cd ?
[11:35] <ogra> scim will be installed with the language pack ...
[11:35] <Yagisan> :)
[11:35] <Yagisan> wait
[11:35] <Yagisan> I have multiple language packs
[11:35] <Yagisan> any issues there ?
[11:36] <ogra> nope
[11:36] <Yagisan> so eg Adding Korean won't break my Japanese setup
[11:36] <Yagisan> ?
[11:38] <ogra> i doubt that ...
[11:38] <ogra> if you want to make it really sure, help freeflying and the scim team ;)
[11:39] <Yagisan> ogra: I better drag out a copy of vmware then. I really don't want to break my production box
[11:39] <Yagisan> oddly qemu doesn't like me at the moment
[11:39] <lucasvo> yeah, ubuntu should offer vmware images
[11:39] <ogra> it does 
[11:39] <lucasvo> really?
[11:39] <lucasvo> cool
[11:40] <Yagisan> lucasvo: I'd do it in qemu if I could get qemu and my network to talk
[11:40] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/vmware/
[11:42] <Yagisan> wow. that was unexpected
[11:42] <Yagisan> it really exists.
[11:42] <ogra> i dont lie, sure it does ;)
[11:54] <Yagisan> hmm, we don't have an #ubuntu-c-newbies do we
[11:54] <ogra> thats what #ubuntu is for
[11:56] <Yagisan> what it is for, and what it actually is don't seem to match.
[11:58] <ogra> learn python :)
[11:59] <signifer123> is python puer OO?
[11:59] <signifer123> pure*
[11:59] <signifer123> nvm
[12:00] <Yagisan> whilst, I'm sure python is nice, no-one writes exploit code in it. I need to learn more C, as it can be a pain in the arse to do all my code in x86 assembler
[12:01] <Yagisan> although, it would be good to know, after mastering C
[12:02] <signifer123> lol x86 assembler is a bit silly to learn unless your handling bios level stuff :-P
[12:03] <signifer123> or you are trying ot write the tiniest exe you can...
[12:03] <signifer123> \bin
[12:04] <Yagisan> signifer123: well, considering my job, it's a must have requirement. I'm actually rather good at it. :)
[12:04] <signifer123> wait whats your job?
[12:05] <Yagisan> signifer123: e-security consultant. I'm the good guy looking for all the holes in your system.
[12:06] <signifer123> ok....maybe you need it them for like 2 things :-p
[12:07] <signifer123> ^^i'd be with lucasvo cept that style of coding is quite addicting
[12:07] <Yagisan> I have a general rule with my x86 asm. if it is more the 3 pages long, it's too long and should be done higher level
[12:07] <signifer123> :-p
[12:07] <Yagisan> that was not fun to maintain
[12:08] <signifer123> Yagisan: i bet it wasn't...
[12:08] <signifer123> what assembler?
[12:08] <signifer123> i prefer Nasm..you?
[12:09] <Yagisan> when I first started it was tasm, but yes, I switched to nasm/yasm
[12:12] <Yagisan> signifer123: I still remember the fun I had when I first discovered flat real mode :)
[12:14] <signifer123> :_p
[12:17] <Yagisan> we have a new name for flat real mode now. Intel calls it "System management Mode"
[12:17] <signifer123> ha....
[12:20] <signifer123> never tried directx and asm
[12:20] <signifer123> ...
[03:56] <salt_lick> hello
[03:56] <salt_lick> any thin client experts here?
[03:57] <salt_lick> I want to use edubuntu as a server for 3 thin client kiosks
[03:58] <salt_lick> I want these to start, connect to the server, and launch a browser to a specific web page
[04:18] <sniff> anyone know how to do a filesystem check of a fat32 drive and fix any errors?
[04:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> fsck.msdos or fsck.vfat? 
[04:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> usual disclaimer about damaged filesystem
[04:55] <salt_lick> hello
[04:56] <salt_lick> did anyone answer my question about thin clients?
[04:56] <salt_lick> my client crashed
[06:15] <flint_> elkner you here?
[06:29] <sithi> is mr. ogra there
[06:33] <ogra> sithi, yes, i am ... sorry, very busy
[06:33] <sithi> no problem sir, 
[06:38] <sithi> i have few clarifications with fire fox only setup
[06:38] <sithi> i thought i can send a detailed email about that
[06:38] <sithi> please give me ur email. id
[06:40] <sithi> hope u there
[06:41] <ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com 
[06:41] <ogra> :)
[06:41] <sithi> :) thanks, please go thru my mail
[06:41] <sithi> leaving for now.
[06:41] <sithi> bye.
[07:39] <mhz> juliux: ping
[07:39] <juliux> mhz, pong
[07:39] <mhz> Does any one here has RevolutionOS.mpg to lend a download?
[07:39] <mhz> juliux: do you have that?
[07:40] <juliux> i have only the linuxcode
[07:40] <mhz> juliux: downloadable?
[07:40] <juliux> mhz, yes
[07:40] <juliux> mhz, search it by google it is free for download
[07:40] <mhz> what kbps rate/speed ?
[07:41] <juliux> puh
[07:41] <juliux> i dont know
[07:41] <mhz> okis, thx
[07:42] <ogra> huzzah, the bug that prevents you from multiple logins is fixed :) you can now use the same user on all thin clients and still have icons, wallpaper and theme right :)
[08:31] <bob> hey people
[08:31] <bob> any idea why chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update is looking at 1.0.0.0?
[08:32] <lucasvo> bob: hm, that ist strange
[08:32] <lucasvo> bob: dns is working?
[08:33] <lucasvo> bob: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dig google.ch?
[08:34] <bob> chroot cant run command 'dig'?
[08:34] <lucasvo> yes
[08:34] <lucasvo> hm, and ping google.ch
[08:34] <lucasvo> bob: are you on dapper?
[08:34] <bob> no
[08:34] <bob> is it worth upgrading?
[08:35] <lucasvo> bob: depends on what you use it for
[08:35] <bob> haha ok
[08:35] <bob> well
[08:35] <bob> loads doesnt work atm
[08:35] <lucasvo> for e.g. I only use it at home. 
[08:35] <bob> chroot ping works
[08:35] <bob> im trying to do thin client stuff and theres laods of problems
[08:35] <lucasvo> bob: and what does the source.list in the chroot look like?
[08:36] <bob> hmm, lokos pretty normal. everying uncommented apart from the cd
[08:37] <lucasvo> bob: :P
[08:37] <lucasvo> bob: in the chroot?
[08:37] <bob> yeah
[08:37] <lucasvo> bob: comment the cd and uncomment the main
[08:37] <bob> oh sorry
[08:37] <bob> the cd is commented
[08:37] <bob> everything else isnt
[08:37] <lucasvo> bob: anyway, why do you want to update?
[08:37] <bob> whoops
[08:37] <bob> umm
[08:37] <bob> well
[08:37] <bob> its just not working very well
[08:38] <lucasvo> bob: what's not working?
[08:38] <bob> laod of the thins kinda get halfway through boot and stop
[08:38] <bob> when they do boot, some of them dont accept normal logins
[08:38] <lucasvo> bob: where does it stop?
[08:38] <bob> varies i think, this time on the hotplug stuff
[08:38] <lucasvo> bob: so if some of them boot, then it is not a problem of the chroot
[08:38] <bob> ok
[08:39] <bob> the other reason i wnted to update is to install that usplash thing
[08:39] <lucasvo> ah, ok
[08:39] <lucasvo> but then you need to update to dapper
[08:39] <bob> :)
[08:39] <bob> how stable is it?
[08:39] <lucasvo> I don't know, you can try to just change the sources.list in the chroot
[08:40] <lucasvo> bob: ltsp works
[08:40] <bob> oh, is the ltsp in breezy not quite there?
[08:40] <lucasvo> bob: atm there is some bug with KDE/gnome
[08:40] <lucasvo> but if you have only gnome installed it is ok
[08:40] <lucasvo> bob: the ltsp in breezy is ok, but it is not as good as in dapper.
[08:40] <bob> ahhh
[08:40] <bob> how can we upgrade?
[08:41] <lucasvo> most edubuntu specific work on dapper has been done on the ltsp stuff
[08:41] <lucasvo> bob: how do you use your lts lab?
[08:41] <bob> lts?
[08:41] <lucasvo> ltsp
[08:41] <bob> umm
[08:41] <bob> well
[08:41] <bob> theres a few computers we have, and we're all trying to get them to boot off the srever
[08:42] <bob> 8 port hub connecting evreything atm
[08:42] <lucasvo> 100mbit?
[08:42] <bob> how do you tell?
[08:42] <lucasvo> bob: what connection speed is your NIC?
[08:42] <bob> everything we have is dontated :)
[08:42] <lucasvo> what speed does your switch allow?
[08:42] <bob> not sure
[08:43] <bob> is it an issue?
[08:43] <bob> it sounds like dapper would be a good idea.
[08:43] <lucasvo> to update: remove every "breezy" you find in sources.list and write "dapper" instead
[08:43] <bob> ok :)
[08:43] <bob> then apt-get upgrade?
[08:43] <lucasvo> first apt-get update 
[08:43] <lucasvo> but yes afterwards
[08:44] <lucasvo> and then there should be a list of packages being  held  back
[08:44] <lucasvo> you have to install them manually
[08:44] <lucasvo> sudo apt-get install _heldback_
[08:45] <bob> good stuff. and i only need to do this in the normal root, not chroot yes?
[08:45] <lucasvo> yes
[08:45] <bob> k
[08:45] <lucasvo> I think the chroot will be rebuilt anyway
[08:45] <lucasvo> if you update
[08:46] <bob> coool
[08:46] <lucasvo> ?
[08:46] <bob> wow, this is like living on the edge
[08:47] <lucasvo> :P
[08:47] <lucasvo> yes
[08:47] <bob> im thikin running off an ide drive is probably bad too
[08:47] <bob> although it should be able to handle like 2 thins
[08:48] <mhz> ogra: what is Dive into Python?
[08:48] <lucasvo> mhz: were you the one who gave me the book CSspy?
[08:49] <mhz> lucasvo: it sounds very familiar to my eyes..
[08:49] <mhz> what is that?
[08:49] <lucasvo> a book about how to code python
[08:50] <mhz> yes, I did
[08:50] <lucasvo> ah ok
[08:50] <mhz> How to think like a computer scientist from Python?
[08:50] <bob> is it just me or is the apt repository well slow at the moment?
[08:50] <lucasvo> ALIEN5.TTF                                          thinkCSpy.pdf
[08:50] <lucasvo> bob: depends on your connection
[08:51] <bob> its sposed to be a fast connection
[08:51] <mhz> what is Dive into Python ?
[08:51] <bob> 8meg
[08:51] <bob> lies
[08:51] <bob> all lies
[08:51] <lucasvo> bob: it takes a little bit
[08:51] <bob> 5k/s, its like my mdoem days!
[08:52] <mhz> JaneW: ping, any better?
[08:59] <ogra> mhz, its a python book thats installed on every ubuntu system ba default
[08:59] <ogra> *by
[08:59] <mhz> oohh
[08:59] <mhz> where it goes to?
[09:00] <ogra> i guess to /usr/share/doc ...
[09:01] <mhz> ogra: okis, thx
[09:02] <mhz> /usr/share/doc/diveintopython
[09:39] <Spec> flint!