| raphink | Riddell: http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/Dapper | 12:15 |
|---|---|---|
| raphink | Riddell: thsi is the result of a meeting on #klik | 12:15 |
| raphink | Riddell: I invited the guys to come on thursday | 12:16 |
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| Hobbsee | Riddell: ping | 02:00 |
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| robotgeek | Riddell: ping | 06:19 |
| robotgeek | can anyone tell me what packages to install instead of gstreamer (xine multiverse packages, but which ones) | 06:21 |
| Hobbsee | amarok-xine i think it is | 06:27 |
| Hobbsee | not sure of anything else | 06:27 |
| robotgeek | okay, i'll defer writing that part till later | 06:28 |
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| paulproteus | Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency. | 06:31 |
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| theball | anyone open for a few questions? | 06:57 |
| === Hobbsee reminds herself of the dev meeting in a day and a half | ||
| Hobbsee | theball: try asking the questions, then wait to see if you get a reply - not sure if anyone's here | 06:57 |
| Hobbsee | Riddell: ping | 06:57 |
| theball | i noticed it was quiet | 06:57 |
| theball | hi Hobbsee | 06:57 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, it's often quiet - seems that people sleep | 06:58 |
| theball | i wonder if anyone has had luck getting gl support in dapper, if so how? | 06:58 |
| === Hobbsee sighs at the bug in mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail | ||
| Hobbsee | think i'll go fix that... | 07:18 |
| Hobbsee | hey how should i go fix a bug in mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail? https://launchpad.net/products/enigmail shows it's not filed in malone - do i just submit a debdiff there, and file a bug, or what? | 07:25 |
| Mez | morning Sarah | 07:39 |
| === Hobbsee jumps out of her skin | ||
| Hobbsee | no one calls me Sarah online lol! | 07:41 |
| robotgeek | Hobbsee: we all no your name now | 07:41 |
| Hobbsee | true | 07:42 |
| Hobbsee | feels weird though :P | 07:42 |
| robotgeek | s/no/know | 07:42 |
| Mez | lol | 07:44 |
| Hobbsee | morning Mez | 07:44 |
| Mez | morning :D | 07:44 |
| Hobbsee | :D | 07:44 |
| crimsun | I was under the impression that most of us knew some time ago... | 07:45 |
| === robotgeek knew :) | ||
| Hobbsee | yeah, probably | 07:46 |
| === robotgeek thinks Hobbsee has bad memory, lol | ||
| Hobbsee | hehe - well i *have* had a rather eventful day today... | 07:47 |
| paulproteus | /whosi Hobbsee | 07:47 |
| paulproteus | Uh, oops. Tee-hee. | 07:47 |
| Hobbsee | what about it lol? | 07:48 |
| Mez | It doesnt list her name :D | 07:48 |
| Hobbsee | :D it's been changed not to! | 07:49 |
| Hobbsee | at least this builds quickly... | 08:06 |
| === Mez crosses fingers he'scaught the last B-D for iFolder | ||
| Hobbsee | hehe | 08:09 |
| Hobbsee | crud | 08:09 |
| Mez | it'd be very nice to see it in ubuntu | 08:09 |
| Hobbsee | darn, cant get the lastest version of enigmail anyway - site's down! | 08:11 |
| Mez | lol | 08:11 |
| Hobbsee | stupid thing - i want to use the package again! | 08:12 |
| Hobbsee | heh, and now the entire site died. | 08:18 |
| Hobbsee | stupid site :P | 08:18 |
| === Hobbsee gives up and lets someone else fix it | ||
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| robotgeek | Hobbsee: where do i report KDE 3.5.1 bugs? | 09:03 |
| Hobbsee | malone, assign it to kdebugs or something | 09:03 |
| robotgeek | my feeds add to akregator stopped working | 09:04 |
| Hobbsee | robotgeek: assign it to kubuntu team | 09:05 |
| === ubijtsa2 is a little concerned about what dist-upgrade to dapper is attempting to remove from the system | ||
| Hobbsee | i think everything gets picked up from there | 09:05 |
| Hobbsee | ubijtsa2: uh oh, what's it trying to remove? and did you have kubuntu-desktop metapackage installed before upgrading? | 09:05 |
| ubijtsa2 | Hobbsee: let me do a pastebin | 09:05 |
| Hobbsee | yep | 09:05 |
| ubijtsa2 | Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8694 | 09:06 |
| ubijtsa2 | that's only the bit's it'll remove though. | 09:07 |
| ubijtsa2 | I can add all the rest if you like | 09:07 |
| Hobbsee | ubijtsa2: no, tha'ts fine - that stuff all looks ok - it's either unneeded or replaced with something else | 09:08 |
| robotgeek | Hobbsee: heh, it was not a bug after all. | 09:08 |
| ubijtsa2 | so once done, I can re-install amarok and it'll just work yeah? | 09:08 |
| Hobbsee | robotgeek: what was it? | 09:08 |
| Hobbsee | ubijtsa2: amarok was changed to using the xine engine by default, instead of amarok | 09:08 |
| ubijtsa2 | ah | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | ahem, not amarok, gstreamer | 09:09 |
| Tm_T | =) | 09:09 |
| Tm_T | Hobbsee: silly you | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | hehe yeah, silly me | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | must have gone crazy again | 09:09 |
| robotgeek | Hobbsee: in Konqueror, when feeds are detected, it has a nice thing at the bottom. which you can click and add feeds to akregator. that clickable area is not very small | 09:09 |
| ubijtsa2 | so if I install the xine engine, amarok would be upgraded instead of removed.. right? | 09:09 |
| Tm_T | Hobbsee: I have that effect to people... | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 09:09 |
| Hobbsee | ubijtsa2: you'll probably find it being installed by default, with upgrading amarok | 09:10 |
| robotgeek | Tm_T: where's your patch for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide :) | 09:10 |
| Hobbsee | robotgeek: ah ok | 09:10 |
| robotgeek | Hobbsee: see it? | 09:10 |
| Tm_T | robotgeek: can't do it too soon, sorry | 09:10 |
| ubijtsa2 | Hobbsee: okidoki.. keep fingers/toes crossed... :) | 09:10 |
| robotgeek | Tm_T: heh, okay | 09:10 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 09:10 |
| Tm_T | robotgeek: have to do my best to get school going on, fucking mental problems | 09:11 |
| ubijtsa2 | right, download running.. | 09:14 |
| Tm_T | also, we are still missing leader in ubuntu-artwork | 09:18 |
| Tm_T | I have no idea what I should do in that front | 09:18 |
| robotgeek | <sigh> | 09:18 |
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| === hunger just used adept (or better: its updater) for the first time. | ||
| hunger | It is a nice little app. | 09:34 |
| === hunger does not understand adept itself though. | ||
| mornfall | hunger: what's up with it? :) | 09:40 |
| hunger | mornfall: I do not understand how to install stuff with it. | 09:41 |
| ubijtsa2 | I find adept has usability problems. compared to Synaptic, Adept is hard work | 09:41 |
| hunger | I got a list of packages, filtered on a tag (whatever that is). | 09:41 |
| hunger | Then I clicked on that > in front of an deb. | 09:41 |
| mornfall | aaaaaaaaaaaa | 09:42 |
| === mornfall recalls that text on toolbar buttons is *still* not default | ||
| hunger | THen I clicked on the button showing up there (not the details one, the one that randomly keeps changing descriptions). | 09:42 |
| mornfall | you randomly change descriptions *bah* | 09:42 |
| hunger | Then I went to the toolbar, doing "Apply Changes". | 09:42 |
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| mornfall | so | 09:42 |
| hunger | Which imediently got me an error. | 09:43 |
| mornfall | interesting :-) | 09:43 |
| hunger | And a red "x" icon in front of the tag I selected earlier. | 09:43 |
| mornfall | that icon needs changing | 09:43 |
| mornfall | it's just to remove the tag | 09:43 |
| hunger | mornfall: Oh, right, it is there from right when I dropped the tag there. | 09:44 |
| hunger | mornfall: no icon necessary: You can just drag the tag back... | 09:44 |
| mornfall | hunger: sure, but is that intuitive enough? :) | 09:44 |
| hunger | mornfall: I only noticed it after I got an error, so I assumed that is OK. | 09:45 |
| mornfall | (i am quite proud of the drag tags back to remove them thing -- shame i did not invent it) | 09:45 |
| hunger | mornfall: Dragging something back you had to drag in to set seems more intuitive then clicking on something. | 09:45 |
| hunger | mornfall: You might consider adding a right context menu "I want this/I do not want this" to the tags:-) | 09:46 |
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| hunger | By the way: How does the update notification thing work? | 09:47 |
| hunger | Does it apt-get update at regular intervals? | 09:47 |
| mornfall | a cronjob does that, at least it should | 09:48 |
| mornfall | it just checks the cache status | 09:48 |
| hunger | mornfall: How often? | 09:48 |
| mornfall | the cronjob? daily | 09:48 |
| hunger | mornfall: I have to change that to at least hourly for dapper;-) | 09:48 |
| mornfall | most mirrors only update daily anyway? | 09:49 |
| hunger | mornfall: The mirrors yes, the archive does definitly update more often. | 09:49 |
| mornfall | *shrug* i don't see the need to make it configurable anyway :-) | 09:50 |
| mornfall | you will want to twiddle with crontab or something in that case | 09:50 |
| hunger | mornfall: You can't get it below 1d anyway. | 09:50 |
| mornfall | oh you can, if you want :-) | 09:50 |
| hunger | mornfall: the apt-script does not do that. | 09:51 |
| mornfall | it's just a script... scripts can be changed | 09:51 |
| hunger | mornfall: Oh, sure you can, but not with the standard script. | 09:51 |
| hunger | mornfall: If I start changing stuff because of such tiny annoyances, then I can start my own distribution:-) | 09:53 |
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| mornfall | hmm, time to write commit logs :| | 09:54 |
| === hunger loves the adept update notifier. | ||
| mornfall | good, good :-) | 09:55 |
| hunger | Maybe I'll love adept as well, once I figure out how to use it;-) | 09:56 |
| mornfall | hunger: what error does it give when you try to apply changes? | 09:56 |
| mornfall | (that's actually not normal, hasn't happened here for ages) | 09:56 |
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| hunger | mornfall: Something about a failed download. | 09:57 |
| mornfall | hunger: hmm, and adept updater works? | 09:57 |
| hunger | mornfall: It did not do anything before giving the error (no text in the area that lists the downloads). | 09:57 |
| hunger | mornfall: Yes, like a charm | 09:58 |
| hunger | mornfall: adept did download something later (not what I wanted installed, but it did download something). | 09:58 |
| mornfall | hunger: could you run it from konsole and paste the output it gives somewhere? (rafb.net/paste eg) | 09:58 |
| hunger | mornfall: I can try, but it does download now. | 09:59 |
| hunger | mornfall: Maybe I had a broken package or something in my selection. | 09:59 |
| === hunger finds the window switching so often when selecting something in the menu bar very confusing. | ||
| hunger | How about opening new windows or tabs instead? That way it would be easier to get back to the original view. | 10:01 |
| hunger | Why is "Manage Repositories" in two different menus? | 10:02 |
| hunger | Where are the inactive filters? | 10:02 |
| mornfall | right click the filter area | 10:03 |
| mornfall | but there aren't many available that are not on by default :) | 10:03 |
| mornfall | manage repositories, well, i haven't made up my mind about that yet | 10:03 |
| mornfall | adding tabs would horribly confuse the interface | 10:03 |
| mornfall | so would opening new windows | 10:03 |
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| mornfall | you won't ever do more than one of those things at once anyway | 10:04 |
| mornfall | (you can't, even if it was in a separate tab or window) | 10:04 |
| hunger | mornfall: Isen't it better to confuse the interface then to confuse the user;-) | 10:04 |
| mornfall | why would user be confused :-) | 10:04 |
| hunger | mornfall: Yes, but the way you do it you introduce modes which is bad. | 10:04 |
| mornfall | no | 10:05 |
| mornfall | modes are good | 10:05 |
| mornfall | modeless apps suck | 10:05 |
| hunger | mornfall: VI is good UI wise? | 10:05 |
| mornfall | it's definitely better than most editors, yes :-) | 10:05 |
| mornfall | from usability POV | 10:05 |
| mornfall | (not from learnability, but that's a different thing) | 10:05 |
| === hunger recommends "The humane interface" from raskin. | ||
| mornfall | modes make it possible to do an interface for the task good | 10:06 |
| mornfall | i have no idea who raskin is | 10:06 |
| === hunger fully disagrees. | ||
| mornfall | it does not change anything about the fact modes are good :) | 10:06 |
| hunger | mornfall: One of the guys behind the original mac gui. Wrote a book, too. | 10:07 |
| mornfall | well, you don't want your filemanager and webbrowser to be a nonmodal mess | 10:07 |
| mornfall | :-) | 10:07 |
| mornfall | (one example for all) | 10:07 |
| mornfall | i don't see how opening half dozen windows instead of using one will give you anything but clutter | 10:08 |
| hunger | mornfall: I consider myself a advanced user, I know apt pretty well, using it on the commandline each day. I should not have problems with a package management gui. Yet adept confuses me. | 10:08 |
| mornfall | (each for one mode) | 10:08 |
| hunger | mornfall: It gives you a well understood way back. | 10:08 |
| hunger | mornfall: Took me a while to get back to where I started from "Show Last Downloads". | 10:09 |
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| hunger | mornfall: My mom would have just close the app and reopened it to get back. | 10:10 |
| mornfall | hunger: your mom is very far from target audience | 10:11 |
| hunger | mornfall: What is your target audience? | 10:11 |
| mornfall | hunger: for adept manager? non-newbies | 10:12 |
| mornfall | hunger: your mom does not give a damn about package dependencies or file lists, hmm? | 10:12 |
| hunger | mornfall: non-newbies == people having used linux for a couple of years? | 10:12 |
| mornfall | hunger: or the fact that updates need to be fetched explicitly | 10:12 |
| hunger | That's my mom;-) | 10:12 |
| mornfall | no, users that have some understanding of the packaging system | 10:13 |
| hunger | mornfall: Updates are fetched automatically each day. That is enough. | 10:13 |
| mornfall | not on dialup | 10:13 |
| mornfall | etc | 10:13 |
| mornfall | adept manager is *not* a dumb-down interface | 10:14 |
| mornfall | there's updater that should guide you fairly well through updates | 10:14 |
| hunger | mornfall: Neither is synaptic. | 10:14 |
| mornfall | and there'll be adept installer as soon as Riddell or mvo or someone makes the data package | 10:14 |
| hunger | mornfall: Still she knows how to use that to install stuff. | 10:14 |
| mornfall | hunger: without any training? | 10:15 |
| hunger | mornfall: I showed her once or twice. | 10:15 |
| mornfall | what stuff, also? | 10:15 |
| mornfall | how does she find what she needs in synaptic? | 10:15 |
| hunger | mornfall: Simple things... she types in "chess" and basically installs everything that shows up:-) | 10:15 |
| mornfall | not too different | 10:16 |
| mornfall | enter text to Search: | 10:16 |
| mornfall | right click packages -> install (or click their names to unroll and click install) | 10:16 |
| mornfall | hit apply changes | 10:17 |
| mornfall | quit | 10:17 |
| mornfall | i'd say that's fairly easy to install | 10:17 |
| mornfall | why would she go and look at "last download"? | 10:17 |
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| mornfall | it's there for people that need to instpect download errors | 10:17 |
| mornfall | inspect* | 10:17 |
| mornfall | does your mom do that? | 10:17 |
| hunger | mornfall: Because she is nosy and likes to poke into dark corners to see what is there. | 10:18 |
| mornfall | i don't think the tenet of user interface is to be random-click resistant | 10:18 |
| mornfall | if she gets stuck, she can always restart the app | 10:18 |
| mornfall | as you said | 10:18 |
| hunger | mornfall: No. But it should offer an easy way back. | 10:18 |
| mornfall | right, close, start | 10:18 |
| mornfall | that's easy :) | 10:18 |
| hunger | mornfall: Yes, you just loose your selection that way. | 10:19 |
| mornfall | i'd say it's mostly hypotethical problem | 10:19 |
| hunger | Why is the opposit of "Install Package" "keep Package"? | 10:19 |
| mornfall | because that's the way apt currently works | 10:19 |
| mornfall | i will redo it at some point | 10:20 |
| hunger | I do not want it installed... so why should I want to keep it? | 10:20 |
| mornfall | you keep it in current state | 10:20 |
| mornfall | you know what? you should send patches :-) | 10:20 |
| mornfall | hunger: also, most of the components are in libept, you can fairly easily make a modeless interface | 10:21 |
| hunger | mornfall: No time. I'm just spending my breakfast break trying to figure out what that strange new icon in my tasktray is:-) | 10:21 |
| mornfall | you have long breakfast breaks :) | 10:21 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 10:22 |
| mornfall | and i have little time | 10:22 |
| mornfall | need to go to work *today* | 10:22 |
| hunger | mornfall: Actually I should have been back to work for a while, but got stuck talking to you:-) | 10:22 |
| hunger | mornfall: Well, thanks for explaining things to me. See you around later. | 10:22 |
| allee | codeine: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1791 | 10:49 |
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| Tonio_ | hello everyone | 11:16 |
| Hobbsee | hi Tonio_ | 11:17 |
| Hobbsee | you do the default settings, dont you? | 11:18 |
| Hobbsee | or otherwise my brain is totally crazy, and has swapped people | 11:18 |
| Tonio_ | I'm doing on it, which doesn't mean everything will be kept :) | 11:18 |
| Hobbsee | because there was some stuff that i'd intended to tell you, an dhave now totally forgotten | 11:18 |
| Tonio_ | that is to be discussed on the kubuntu meeting 02/16 | 11:18 |
| Hobbsee | of course ;) | 11:19 |
| Tonio_ | if you have any ideal, plz tell me :) | 11:19 |
| Hobbsee | yeah i'll try | 11:19 |
| Tonio_ | the meeting is tomorow, so I'll write a little documentation including the diverse modifications to be discussed | 11:25 |
| Hobbsee | *nods* | 11:25 |
| Tonio_ | if you have new ones, possibly asking during he meeting is the best thing to do | 11:25 |
| Tonio_ | then I'll have a few days to add all voted modifications, and get the package uploaded | 11:25 |
| Riddell | Hobbsee: pong | 11:27 |
| Hobbsee | Riddell: ah yes *tries to organise brain* | 11:28 |
| Hobbsee | there's a bug in avahi-daemon - it's fixed in dapper, were they going to backport that fix into breezy? | 11:29 |
| Hobbsee | there's a debdiff that ljl wrote for breezy to fix it, if you like | 11:29 |
| Hobbsee | there are lots of duplicate bug reports for it, so it might just be worht fixing | 11:29 |
| Riddell | where is the debdiff? | 11:30 |
| Riddell | robotgeek_zzz: pong | 11:30 |
| Riddell | robotgeek_zzz: libxine-extracodecs | 11:30 |
| Hobbsee | Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/30669 | 11:30 |
| cmvo | Riddell: Hi! I want to locally mirror the kde 3.51 package for breezy and noticed that each Packages file contains entries for all three architectures. | 11:33 |
| cmvo | Riddell: Is this by design or a side effect of apt-ftparchive? | 11:34 |
| Riddell | cmvo: most likely its down to some incorrect usage of mine for apt-ftparchive | 11:35 |
| Riddell | cmvo: you can see how I make the file with the ARCHIVE script | 11:36 |
| Riddell | Hobbsee: I don't see a debdiff there | 11:37 |
| Hobbsee | so i'm lost? *goes to look* | 11:37 |
| Hobbsee | indeed i am - try https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/31458 | 11:38 |
| cmvo | Riddell: Ok, I'll adapt my scripts. | 11:43 |
| Riddell | cmvo: if you know how to fix it that would be great :) | 11:44 |
| cmvo | Riddell: The archive or my scripts? ;-) | 11:45 |
| Riddell | the archive | 11:45 |
| cmvo | Riddell: I haven't used apt-ftparchive in a while, but I'll take a look at the config. | 11:46 |
| Riddell | cmvo: what do you use? | 11:47 |
| cmvo | Riddell: I mirror the Packages file too. | 11:48 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: oh, can we replace kate with kwrite as the default kde text editor? people keep saying that kate crashes | 11:55 |
| Riddell | I've never had kate crash | 11:56 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: sever also | 11:56 |
| Hobbsee | lucky, Riddell :P | 11:56 |
| Tonio_ | and to what I know, write is kate, but with simplified menus | 11:56 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: am I wrong on that point ? | 11:56 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: sever? | 11:56 |
| Tonio_ | s/sever/never :) | 11:56 |
| Riddell | and kwrite being just kate with a different layout will crash just as often | 11:56 |
| Hobbsee | hmm...weird | 11:56 |
| Riddell | on the other hand the profiles stuff in kate in kde 3.5 is just weird | 11:57 |
| Tonio_ | there is something that drives me nuts recently with kate. the sessions management | 11:57 |
| Hobbsee | i'm not sure that i tested it with 3.5.1, but i thought i saw some errors for it | 11:57 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: exactly | 11:58 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I may include little modifications in kubuntu-default-settings on that point, cause really I can't stand that sessions management default settings... should be discussed on kubuntu meeting of course ;) | 11:59 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: sure, Anders did some blogging about it a while ago | 11:59 |
| Tonio_ | okay, that'll go in KDS so ;) | 11:59 |
| === Hobbsee is hesitant to say anything else on kate without further testing, but usually using kate with root gives problems, and after rebooting a machine, if it was in the previous session | ||
| sealne | are there any reasons atm for kded in dapper to keep crashing every second? | 11:59 |
| Riddell | sealne: nope | 12:00 |
| mornfall | sealne: yes | 12:00 |
| mornfall | sealne: it's broken :) | 12:00 |
| Riddell | sealne: get a backtrace? | 12:00 |
| Hobbsee | oh yeah, and kdesu kwrite seems to open faster than kdesu kate :D | 12:00 |
| sealne | its very hard to do anything with crash handler appearing every second :) | 12:01 |
| Hobbsee | hehe! | 12:01 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, i had that problem a couple of times too - it does get in the way! | 12:02 |
| sealne | www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedcrash.txt | 12:02 |
| sealne | just when i'd found a graphics card that dapper would talk to :-/ | 12:03 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: the fact that you are in previous session is the crappy default settingwe're talking about | 12:05 |
| Hobbsee | ah, i see - so i'm not a moron after all? | 12:05 |
| Tonio_ | when you use kdesu, it doesn't use your account profile like sudo does | 12:05 |
| Riddell | sealne: that'll be avahi | 12:05 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: that's the reason I want to change that in the KDS package | 12:05 |
| Hobbsee | ah ok :) | 12:05 |
| === jpatrick [n=patrick@33.Red-81-44-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | that'll apply even to the root account | 12:05 |
| Hobbsee | yes, which is why the fonts are all screwed up? | 12:06 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: are you with dapper ? | 12:06 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: indeed | 12:06 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: ho the font size with kdesu ? | 12:06 |
| Hobbsee | well, the kdesu fonts are different than the normal fonts | 12:06 |
| Tonio_ | yes that's normally crappy, and is to be fixed with KDS package too | 12:06 |
| mornfall | XDS = ? | 12:07 |
| mornfall | KDS* | 12:07 |
| Hobbsee | um...i didnt like the font, so i switched - what's the default size? | 12:07 |
| Tonio_ | that's all I'm working on actually, make the default profile nice, cause that'll apply to the root account also | 12:07 |
| Hobbsee | i'm using sans serif 14 and it all looks fine | 12:07 |
| Tonio_ | kubuntu-default-settings =KDS | 12:07 |
| Riddell | sealne: as a quick fix rm /usr/share/services/kded/dnssdwatcher.desktop should work | 12:07 |
| jpatrick | 14? that's huge | 12:07 |
| Tonio_ | easy to write | 12:07 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: don't know what will be the default size.... dpi will certainly be fixed to 100 some way, and the default size will be 8 or 9 probably... | 12:08 |
| === jpatrick has it set to 9 | ||
| Tonio_ | jpatrick: you need to check 9 with dpi set to 100 to be sure ;) | 12:09 |
| Tonio_ | 9 can look like 8 depending your DPI | 12:09 |
| jpatrick | ok | 12:09 |
| sealne | Riddell: still crashing after removing that and loggining in again | 12:09 |
| Tonio_ | on many computers, 9 is like 8 or 8 like 9.... that's problem with xorg + fontconfig, and also the reason we think about fixing that to 100 | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | size 9? sheesh! | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | it's barely readable on my screen! | 12:10 |
| jpatrick | right... | 12:10 |
| Tonio_ | dpi + font to 8 is about the same size that on Windows or OSX by default.... it is a size people are used to use, and that may not hurt them if they think about migrating to kubuntu... | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | 12 looks ok though | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | ah ok | 12:11 |
| jpatrick | sealne: need someone to look at dcfldd? | 12:11 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: try fixing the DPI to 100, then use 9 and 8 and you'll see :) | 12:11 |
| Hobbsee | it may just be my screen and dpi - this is a laptop run at 1024x768 | 12:11 |
| sealne | jpatrick: yes please | 12:11 |
| Hobbsee | how do i fix my dpi to 100? | 12:11 |
| Tonio_ | it is not possible to judge the font size if DPI is not fixed, cause the renderring will different from a computer to another | 12:11 |
| === Hobbsee hasnt seen that option | ||
| allee | Hobbsee: Please set DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm in xorg.conf's Monitor section | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: in kdmrc, on serverargslocal, add "-dpi 100" at the end of the command | 12:12 |
| allee | Tonio_: Noooo :) | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | that's the easier way to just test | 12:12 |
| Hobbsee | lol! | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | allee: to TEST ;) | 12:12 |
| === Hobbsee only wants to test, not to kill off her nice display size.. | ||
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: so don't listen to my mentor ;) listen to me | 12:13 |
| jpatrick | sealne: that is one funky debian/watch :/ | 12:13 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 12:13 |
| allee | Hobbsee: if you use DisplaySize it will preserve your (future) nice setup independendly | 12:14 |
| sealne | jpatrick: i hate debian/watch enough already | 12:14 |
| Hobbsee | allee: that does mean i need a tape measure, which i dont have lol | 12:15 |
| Tonio_ | allee: note that I agree with you concerning the global setting to set the dpi directly within xorg.conf | 12:15 |
| allee | Hobbsee: poor guy | 12:16 |
| jpatrick | sealne: put "http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*)\.tar\.gz" instead | 12:16 |
| Tonio_ | allee: got informations on the way gnome sets the fonts ? | 12:16 |
| === Hobbsee looks around for the male hobbsee... | ||
| === Hobbsee finds no one | ||
| Tonio_ | I just learned that they were not using fontconfig, which kde does | 12:16 |
| sealne | jpatrick: i have had every possible combination in debian/watch | 12:16 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: it's in gnome-settings-daemon, and it just sets Xft not the whole X display | 12:17 |
| === allee send an excuse to hobbsee | ||
| allee | lunch time. bbl | 12:17 |
| sealne | jpatrick: i was told not to use a mirror | 12:17 |
| Hobbsee | hehe | 12:17 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: can that be reproduced on kubuntu ? | 12:17 |
| jpatrick | just saw that | 12:17 |
| Hobbsee | i need to restart x, i take it? | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | mm amarok is much more stable now, its been playing a stream for 24 hours and hasnt crashed :) | 12:17 |
| === JRe [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Riddell | Tonio_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103507 not all gnomes like using a hardcoded dpi | 12:18 |
| Tonio_ | hi JRe :) | 12:18 |
| jpatrick | sealne: better just prdownloads.sourceforge.net | 12:18 |
| JRe | hi Tonio_ | 12:18 |
| Riddell | http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104341 better | 12:18 |
| sealne | jpatrick: except that returns an html page | 12:18 |
| Riddell | I think for sourceforge you have to use a mirror | 12:18 |
| Riddell | although don't they hae a definitive mirror? | 12:19 |
| jpatrick | "http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*).tar.gz" | 12:19 |
| sealne | jpatrick: i've tried that and that was rejected | 12:19 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: reading... but I don't agree on the "linux users like the dpi autodetection of X"..... I saw so many problems concerning linux and the fonts, when Windows rarely have some | 12:20 |
| jpatrick | damn watch file | 12:20 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: touche | 12:20 |
| === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| jpatrick | wb Hobbsee | 12:20 |
| Hobbsee | man this is *warped*! | 12:21 |
| sealne | debian/watch is about the only changes in all my revisions apart from the new upstream | 12:21 |
| Hobbsee | ty jpatrick | 12:21 |
| Tonio_ | I mean, the way X does sounds better technologically, but the result is important, and to me, the result is "users complaning" | 12:21 |
| Hobbsee | argh...definetly warped... | 12:22 |
| === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | and from my experience, fixing the DPI is becoming my normal way to configure a linux desktop.... so many aplications have graphical bugs in menus etc when the DPI isn't set | 12:22 |
| jpatrick | hello apokryphos | 12:22 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: you had problems with fonts on adept is I remember correctly no ? | 12:23 |
| apokryphos | jpatrick: hey, how's it going | 12:23 |
| jpatrick | apokryphos: fine :) | 12:24 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: only users complaining kdesu does not keep user fonts | 12:24 |
| mornfall | i tell them to send patches lately | 12:24 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: that's normal, cause kdesu doesn't use the user settings, what sudo does.... | 12:24 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: *i* know | 12:25 |
| apokryphos | would be nice if it did; bridge the gap a little more between user/root | 12:25 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: *I* know *you* know :) | 12:25 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: so go tell those complainers | 12:25 |
| mornfall | :-) | 12:25 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: well, if we fix the dpi on kubuntu dapper, and set a good default value to the font size, there might not be lots of complains | 12:26 |
| Tonio_ | cause a very few users will change the default fonts values | 12:26 |
| mornfall | there aren't lots | 12:26 |
| mornfall | they are annoying | 12:26 |
| Tonio_ | actually, on most computers, fonts are horribly big, ad on the others, ridiculously small | 12:27 |
| Tonio_ | and on a small range, look normal :) | 12:27 |
| Tonio_ | that's my experience | 12:27 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: there is an horrible hack I tested that works nice with kdesu | 12:29 |
| mornfall | i just use -dpi 96 | 12:29 |
| Tonio_ | linking .kde in /root to the one on your profile, but that o course cannot be set as default ^^ | 12:29 |
| mornfall | because otherwise the fonts are rather unpredictable | 12:29 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: exactly, I personally fix dpi to 100, with is quite the same | 12:30 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: what about exporting KDEHOME in kdesu? | 12:30 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: you still get the problem with root owned files in your $HOME :-) | 12:30 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: is root is creating files, yes ;) | 12:31 |
| === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | well, sounds like a good idea, need toask Riddell if that might or might not cause issues ;) | 12:31 |
| Riddell | hmm? | 12:31 |
| Hobbsee_ | man *that* didnt work! | 12:31 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee_: ? | 12:32 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: it will | 12:32 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: it will cause lots of evil issues | 12:32 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: like dcop going all wonky | 12:32 |
| Tonio_ | sounds logik indeed.... | 12:33 |
| Hobbsee_ | Tonio_: well, before my wireless connection decided to live in the land of dead, all the normal fonts were fine at around a 9, maybe 10 is better, but the fonts inside konv were huge - they looked more like a comparable 15 or 16 | 12:33 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: you'd need to teach kde to write files as $KDEHOME owner if it's root or some other similar hack :-) | 12:33 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: hehe | 12:34 |
| Tonio_ | msvista will use the same concept than sudo is using, I'm curious to know how will MS deal with that owner file issue..... | 12:35 |
| sealne | sudo can be annoying creating dot files owned by root in the users home | 12:36 |
| Tonio_ | sealne: .aptitude for example ? ;) | 12:36 |
| sealne | never had that problem as i don't like aptitude :) | 12:37 |
| === JRe [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | sealne: ah okay... I love aptitude when I have to install temporary stuff, cause uninstallations are way cleaner | 12:37 |
| mornfall | Tonio_: by filesystem API in windows knowing both user IDs? :-) | 12:38 |
| mornfall | there's little use of aptitude as a non-root | 12:38 |
| mornfall | so i don't mind having root-owned .aptitude in $HOME :) | 12:38 |
| Tonio_ | mornfall: agree | 12:39 |
| sealne | i'm happy enough with apt-get :) | 12:40 |
| mornfall | but with .ICEauthority or .kde/...*rc, it's sort of different :-) | 12:40 |
| === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Hobbsee | Riddell: how do dapper people get the amarok 1.4 beta1 packages? | 12:45 |
| Riddell | Hobbsee: with the archive mentioned on kubuntu.org | 12:45 |
| Hobbsee | gotcha | 12:45 |
| Hobbsee | will it get into the dapper repos in a couple of days anywya? | 12:46 |
| Riddell | Hobbsee: no, it's only beta software and dapper is in upstream version freeze | 12:46 |
| Hobbsee | yeah, i thought that might be the case - sorry, i'm really braindead tonight | 12:47 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 12:48 |
| === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Hobbsee | ah yes, this looks familiar... | 12:51 |
| cmvo | Riddell: Hm. apt-ftparchive does not seem to like a multi-arch pool tree as an input. It keeps including all files. | 12:57 |
| Riddell | cmvo: is that bad? the archive works | 12:58 |
| Riddell | I was told to use apt-ftparchive over dpkg-scanpackages | 12:58 |
| Riddell | seems pretty strange though | 12:58 |
| cmvo | Riddell: Only using a filelist create with find I can get it to include aonly the files I want. | 12:59 |
| cmvo | The apt system doesn't seem to mind the multi-arch Packages files. | 01:00 |
| cmvo | I just stubled over it, because my scripts do not work as expected. | 01:02 |
| === jeroenvrp [n=jeroenvr@k-uptown.xs4all.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| jeroenvrp | please devels, look at bug #6608 | 01:16 |
| jeroenvrp | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6608 | 01:16 |
| jeroenvrp | it's about the sound in dapper | 01:16 |
| Riddell | jeroenvrp: looks like the sound driver isn't loaded | 01:19 |
| jeroenvrp | mm why is that | 01:19 |
| jeroenvrp | how can I check that Riddell | 01:19 |
| jeroenvrp | please look at my last comment in that bug btw | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | i have sound, but is very low | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | let's say 50% | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | and it shows 100% | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | alsamixer says: | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | ? Card: VIA 8235 ? | 01:20 |
| jeroenvrp | ? Chip: Analog Devices AD1980 | 01:20 |
| Riddell | no idea, it's probably a linux issue not a KDE issue, so not my area | 01:21 |
| jeroenvrp | ok thanks | 01:22 |
| jeroenvrp | I'm going to as in #ubuntu-devel | 01:22 |
| jpatrick | might be a better place to yes :) | 01:22 |
| Tonio_ | anyone tried kbabel running with 3.5.1 ? impossible for me to open a .pot file........ | 01:23 |
| Tonio_ | kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KBabelFilter not found | 01:23 |
| jpatrick | can a .diff file hold differences for two files? | 01:24 |
| sebas | Yes. | 01:25 |
| allee | jpatrick: yes. E.g. lsdiff -z kmplayer....diff.gz | 01:25 |
| sebas | Even for a whole filetree, in different directories. | 01:26 |
| jpatrick | allee: only need in for styleclock :) | 01:26 |
| allee | about watch. maybe it was mentioned already for sf.net there is (was?) a script to handle the redirect. e.g.: | 01:28 |
| allee | http://people.debian.org/~lolando/sfdlr.php?project=digikam digikam-([\d\.] .*).tar.bz2 debian svn-upgrade | 01:28 |
| Riddell | mornfall: mvo is going to upload a gnome-app-install with a separated app-install-data package that installs files to /usr/share/app-install-data/ | 01:29 |
| mornfall | Riddell: is it same source-package? | 01:30 |
| Riddell | yes | 01:30 |
| Riddell | if that's OK, we can separate it if it's better to | 01:30 |
| mornfall | is a debian upload planned? (for gnome-app-install...) | 01:30 |
| mornfall | (ubuntu talks a lot about contributing to debian, hmm) | 01:31 |
| === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| mornfall | either way fine, i'll just make a separate source package for debian in that case (or drop adept installer from debian package) | 01:32 |
| jpatrick | mornfall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian | 01:32 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: is "/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk" a neccessary file for KDE packages? | 01:33 |
| Riddell | mornfall: he says he's not planned for it since that would mean getting all the .desktop files from debian | 01:34 |
| allee | Tonio_: kbabel po/codeine.pot works as far as I can see | 01:34 |
| mornfall | Riddell: hmm, okey, leave it as it is then, i'll do what i can for debian | 01:35 |
| mornfall | jpatrick: theory is nice, as you can see, practice is the problem :-) | 01:35 |
| Tonio_ | allee: I had to launch kbuildsycoca first........ | 01:35 |
| Tonio_ | allee: works now | 01:35 |
| allee | 'k | 01:35 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: it's included by /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk, so no | 01:36 |
| jpatrick | right, off it goes | 01:36 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I'll send you the french po file for systemsettings in a few minutes | 01:38 |
| === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | Riddell: concerning "System Settings", does it need to be considered the name o the application and not translated, or may it be translated to french to ? | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | I would prefer to keep it in english personnally, but......;; | 01:48 |
| Riddell | that's up to the translator :) | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: okay, so keep it in english :) | 01:49 |
| === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| jpatrick | yes! | 02:02 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: french.po file sent by email (I don't have access to the svn) | 02:04 |
| Riddell | tres bien | 02:05 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: ;) | 02:05 |
| jpatrick | how do i overwrite a lintian error? | 02:05 |
| jpatrick | "styleclock: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libstyleclock.so" | 02:05 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: yes | 02:11 |
| Riddell | put that in a file | 02:11 |
| jpatrick | I did | 02:11 |
| jpatrick | debian/overrides/styleclock | 02:12 |
| jpatrick | didn't work | 02:12 |
| Riddell | that then needs to be instalLed into /usr/share/lintian I think it is | 02:12 |
| Riddell | /usr/share/lintian/overrides/ | 02:17 |
| Riddell | look at how katapult does it for example | 02:17 |
| jpatrick | I see | 02:23 |
| sealne | Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/555862 is what happens when i run kded from a terminal, that stuff just gets repeated over and over | 02:23 |
| sealne | whats avahi? | 02:24 |
| sealne | service discovery? | 02:25 |
| Riddell | it's the zeroconf stuff | 02:27 |
| sealne | yeah, why is kded upset about it/why is kded trying to talk to it | 02:28 |
| Riddell | sealne: do you have avahi-daemon installed? | 02:28 |
| sealne | nope | 02:28 |
| Riddell | try installing that | 02:28 |
| Riddell | and if it still fails try installing all the libavahi-* packages | 02:29 |
| sealne | as an aside to whether it will fix it or not it not something id particuarly want to have | 02:29 |
| Riddell | of course, but if we find out how to make it happy that's the first step to making it not complain in the first place | 02:30 |
| sealne | Riddell: yep that keeps kded quiet | 02:31 |
| Riddell | sealne: installing avahi-daemon? | 02:31 |
| sealne | yep | 02:31 |
| Riddell | hmm, well it should just not use avahi if avahi-daemon isn't installed | 02:31 |
| === Riddell adds to his TODO of things to investigate | ||
| sealne | thanks | 02:32 |
| sealne | avahi-daemon needs to be running not just installed | 02:34 |
| === ubijtsa2 [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| ubijtsa2 | hullo | 02:37 |
| Lathiat | kded should be able to handle not having avahi installed fine | 02:39 |
| Lathiat | if not its buggy | 02:39 |
| sealne | Riddell: strace if it helps, from when avahi-daemon wasn't running http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.log | 02:39 |
| Tm_T | is there any isos of dapper to powerpc | 02:39 |
| Lathiat | avahi also has the facility to connect and go ahead if and when avahi does start/get installed | 02:40 |
| sealne | on cdimage.ubuntu.com? | 02:40 |
| Tm_T | sealne: dapper? | 02:40 |
| sealne | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/ | 02:40 |
| Tm_T | aah, ty | 02:41 |
| Riddell | sealne: 13:41:22 ERROR 403: Forbidden. | 02:41 |
| Tm_T | hum, how about live :) | 02:41 |
| sealne | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ | 02:42 |
| jpatrick | moring robotgeek | 02:42 |
| robotgeek | morning jpatrick | 02:42 |
| Tm_T | sealne: sorry, I go away in shame ;( | 02:43 |
| jjesse | is flight 4 out yet? | 02:43 |
| sealne | Riddell: http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.txt parinoid colleagues :) | 02:43 |
| sealne | no .logs :) | 02:43 |
| Tm_T | :) | 02:47 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: hmm, if I hold Kubuntu presentation in local LUG meeting, you could ship some Kubuntu dapper discs? | 03:06 |
| Tm_T | 20-50 | 03:06 |
| === jpatrick is taking 80 CDs to aKademy-es | ||
| Tm_T | yay! | 03:06 |
| Tm_T | jpatrick: what's that? | 03:07 |
| jpatrick | haha | 03:07 |
| jpatrick | dot.kde.org | 03:07 |
| Tm_T | hmm, I knew I forgot something | 03:07 |
| Riddell | Tm_T: sure | 03:07 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: what about it? | 03:08 |
| jpatrick | 4th topic | 03:08 |
| Riddell | ignore me | 03:08 |
| Riddell | Tm_T: e-mail me your postal address, jriddell@ubuntu.com | 03:08 |
| jpatrick | :) | 03:08 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: aye sir! | 03:09 |
| sebas | There are Dapper CDs available? | 03:09 |
| Riddell | daily CDs are (almost) always available | 03:09 |
| Riddell | install reports always welcome too | 03:09 |
| sebas | Ah, ok. | 03:11 |
| Tm_T | :) | 03:11 |
| Riddell | _Sime: how much does displayconfig overlap with the existing kcontrol display module? | 03:26 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: kcontrol-kdmtheme hasn't turned up yet | 03:26 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: I know, but with soyuz I'm not even sure who to ask to find out where it's gone | 03:27 |
| Riddell | probably still in NEW, in which case elmo | 03:27 |
| jpatrick | it appears at launchpad... | 03:31 |
| paulproteus | Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency. | 03:33 |
| paulproteus | (In case you missed it earlier.) | 03:33 |
| paulproteus | Riddell: BTW, they compile and run just great on Debian Sid. (-: | 03:33 |
| Riddell | paulproteus: oh yes, thanks | 03:34 |
| sebas | Riddell: It does replace all functionality that's in the current module, and offers more. | 03:34 |
| Riddell | sebas: so I should not show the current display one then? | 03:36 |
| Riddell | and I think the guidance one should be in hardware | 03:36 |
| Riddell | paulproteus: fixed in SVN :) | 03:37 |
| sebas | Riddell: Exactly, that was the idea. | 03:37 |
| sebas | Riddell: Dunno how it got there, actually :o | 03:37 |
| paulproteus | Riddell: Totally rocking! | 03:37 |
| Riddell | sebas, _Sime: I needed http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_01_qt_paths.diff for pykdeextensions | 03:38 |
| sebas | Riddell: Email it to Sime, I'm not really working on pykdeextensions, apart from the occasional patch. | 03:39 |
| sebas | So I've got no access to the "master copy" so to say. | 03:40 |
| sebas | Riddell: When are you arriving in Brussels? | 03:40 |
| Riddell | sebas: London Waterloo Int 18:11 - Bruxelles Midi 21:37 | 03:40 |
| sebas | I'll probably be there on wednesday already, got a meeting thursday until about noon. | 03:40 |
| sebas | That's friday? | 03:40 |
| Riddell | yes | 03:40 |
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| sebas | Ah, so we need someone to stay at JB and welcome all the KDE dudes. | 03:40 |
| Riddell | I need to work out how to get from gare midi to youth hostel | 03:41 |
| Riddell | then youth hostel to grande place | 03:41 |
| sebas | And I need to sort out some stuff for FOSDEM payment. | 03:41 |
| sebas | YH to GP is a no brainer, just ask someone in your best french :-) | 03:41 |
| Riddell | every time I try to use french in Brussels they reply in English | 03:41 |
| Riddell | but remember what happened last year? YH to GP wasn't easy then | 03:42 |
| === Riddell not trusting Dutch people for directions any more | ||
| sebas | Riddell: Surprise, with a kilt :-) | 03:42 |
| sebas | Pah, NL -> Brussels was the worst part :D | 03:43 |
| sebas | Remember Waterloo? | 03:43 |
| sebas | That's *totally* out of the direction. | 03:43 |
| sebas | I'm still looking for something to do in Brussels from Thursday until friday. | 03:44 |
| Riddell | visit the parliament | 03:45 |
| Riddell | tours at 15:00 I think | 03:45 |
| Riddell | that's about the most interesting thing to do in Brussels | 03:46 |
| sebas | Hm, no no-patents demo then? :P | 03:46 |
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| jpatrick | Riddell: styleclock checked 5 times, removed clean theme, created patch to remove clean theme's build rules, and uploaded! | 03:47 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: you uploaded? | 03:47 |
| Riddell | to ubuntu or revu? | 03:47 |
| jpatrick | yes | 03:47 |
| jpatrick | ubuntu | 03:47 |
| Riddell | was it approved by 2 MOTU? | 03:48 |
| jpatrick | what? | 03:48 |
| Riddell | you're ment to get 2 approvals on revu before uploading | 03:48 |
| jpatrick | oh dear :| | 03:49 |
| Riddell | well, lets just hope nobody notices :) | 03:49 |
| jpatrick | lintian was happy | 03:49 |
| jpatrick | wow was fast: https://launchpad.net/people/jpatrick/+packages | 03:50 |
| Riddell | ooh, that's clever | 03:51 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: ok, current daily-live in minimac, seems to work ok, but complains "battery running out" | 04:06 |
| Riddell | Tm_T: excellent. does sound work? | 04:06 |
| Tm_T | nope, "mixer cannot be found" | 04:07 |
| Riddell | bah | 04:08 |
| Tm_T | 1min 50s starting OO.o2 Writer | 04:12 |
| Riddell | on a live CD that doesn't surprise me | 04:12 |
| Tm_T | 1.33G minimac with 512M ram | 04:12 |
| Tm_T | aye | 04:12 |
| Tm_T | KOffice could be much faster, but MS format filters suck | 04:12 |
| Tm_T | but aye, sound is only big minus | 04:13 |
| jpatrick | Is there a kapp for editing manpages? | 04:17 |
| Riddell | not really, maybe quanta for docbook | 04:23 |
| jjesse | just use kate for docbook :) | 04:23 |
| Riddell | exactly | 04:25 |
| Riddell | anyone see any problems with getting rid of ark_part? | 04:43 |
| Riddell | it seems like a fairly pointless menu item and not much else | 04:44 |
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| Riddell | mornfall: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006368.html | 04:55 |
| Riddell | * split the desktop data out into it's own "app-install-data" package | 04:55 |
| Riddell | that is shared between gnome-app-install and apdept-installer | 04:55 |
| Riddell | we decided to do split sources so that they can be ported to debian separately when anyone has time | 04:56 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: uploaded new kmplayer to _REVU_ | 05:01 |
| Riddell | :) | 05:01 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: and it doesn't need to build-dep on any mplayer stuff? | 05:09 |
| jpatrick | no | 05:09 |
| Riddell | but it can use mplayer? | 05:10 |
| jpatrick | It can | 05:10 |
| Riddell | clever | 05:10 |
| jpatrick | but that would mean putting it in multiverse | 05:10 |
| Riddell | ah, so it can't use mplayer as it stands? | 05:11 |
| jpatrick | no | 05:12 |
| jpatrick | Xine and Gstreamer instead | 05:12 |
| Riddell | groovy | 05:13 |
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| Riddell | jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1805 | 05:28 |
| jpatrick | I'm on it | 05:30 |
| jpatrick | allee: told me to call it kmplayerplugin | 05:30 |
| jpatrick | :/ | 05:31 |
| Riddell | any rationale? it's not a big issue, just seems nicer to follow all the rest and have a dash | 05:31 |
| jpatrick | because kmplayer-plugin sounds like a plugin for kmplayer | 05:32 |
| allee | Riddell: kmplayer-plugin made ... well jpatrick explained it | 05:33 |
| allee | Riddell: it's not a plugin for kmplayer. It's a plugin for khtml. But you are the native english speaker... | 05:34 |
| Riddell | hmm, true | 05:35 |
| crimsun | why have mplayer in the name at all then? | 05:35 |
| allee | mhmm, maybe kmplayer-khtmlplugins is even better???? | 05:35 |
| Riddell | hmm, maybe not :) | 05:35 |
| allee | *hides* :) | 05:35 |
| crimsun | if mplayer isn't even required, since it can use xine/gst, I don't think mplayer even makes sense | 05:35 |
| allee | crimsun: it's the name of the application | 05:35 |
| Riddell | crimsun: the website does say as much | 05:35 |
| allee | crimsun: it can use gstreamer, mplayer and xine | 05:36 |
| === allee _assumes_ at the start only mplayer was supported | ||
| crimsun | personally it makes more sense to put that much in the description | 05:36 |
| mornfall | Riddell: good, thanks | 05:37 |
| allee | It's maybe too technical. While not perfect, a long technical description is better than a short one that says nothing :) | 05:37 |
| mornfall | so app-install-data is now NEW? | 05:38 |
| Riddell | mornfall: yes | 05:38 |
| jpatrick | how about konq-plugin-kmplayer? | 05:39 |
| crimsun | konq-kmplayer-plugins sounds fine | 05:39 |
| Riddell | whatever, it was the not playing anything that bothered me most :) | 05:40 |
| jpatrick | crimsun: without the last s? | 05:40 |
| crimsun | jpatrick: source or binary? The binaries according to apt-cache have the 's' | 05:41 |
| jpatrick | binary | 05:41 |
| crimsun | consistently inconsistent, then? | 05:42 |
| crimsun | e.g., kdenetwork-kfile-plugins - torrent metainfo plugin for KDE | 05:42 |
| allee | crimsun: binary pkg contains only one plugin | 05:43 |
| === jpatrick 's point | ||
| === allee likes konq-kmplayer-plugin | ||
| crimsun | take a look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=kdenetwork-kfile-plugins&version=dapper&arch=i386 | 05:45 |
| crimsun | if you're going to name it konq-kmplayer-plugin, then change kdenetwork-kfile-plugins to kdenetwork-kfile-plugin, too | 05:45 |
| crimsun | that's what I meant by "consistently inconsistent" | 05:46 |
| allee | lol | 05:46 |
| allee | kdenetwork-kfile-plugins is just open for further kfile plugins :) | 05:46 |
| crimsun | well, I'm not going to drag it out further | 05:47 |
| crimsun | konq-kmplayer-plugin{s} sounds good | 05:47 |
| allee | jpatrick: ah, pkgs were renamed, so don't forget to add conflicts and replaces in control | 05:53 |
| jpatrick | allee: so close :) Few seconds later and I would of have uploaded to REVU | 05:54 |
| === allee works hard on timings | ||
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| jpatrick | right reuploaded (revu) | 05:57 |
| allee | jpatrick: did you work on Depends ('cause it didn't work for Riddell at all). Here kmplayer works with xine and gst. So it's no problem with upstream code. | 06:01 |
| jpatrick | nope, it's odd.... | 06:02 |
| Riddell | hmm, it has no depends | 06:03 |
| Riddell | ah yes, none in debian/control either | 06:04 |
| Riddell | that's quite important | 06:04 |
| jpatrick | ${shlibs:Depends} | 06:04 |
| Riddell | ah, -base has them | 06:04 |
| jpatrick | :) | 06:04 |
| Riddell | what's the point of the -base package? | 06:05 |
| jpatrick | You can have the plugins without having to install the stand-alone app | 06:05 |
| allee | jpatrick: fwiw shlibs:Depends catches only depends on library (and lintian complains about them). it will not catch depend for external programs | 06:05 |
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| Riddell | what external programs are needed? | 06:08 |
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| allee | Riddell: it was a general remark. I never looked that 'deep' into kmplayer | 06:08 |
| Riddell | right | 06:09 |
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| Riddell | freeflying: how was Shanghai? | 06:14 |
| freeflying | Riddell: hi Introduced kubuntu to them | 06:16 |
| freeflying | Riddell: mark let us make more Chinese support | 06:16 |
| freeflying | Riddell: and ther will be a release party in china for dapper ,will u attend | 06:17 |
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| Riddell | I can't attend release parties, I have to actually make the release | 06:20 |
| jpatrick | ha | 06:24 |
| jpatrick | sealne: yep it's in | 06:28 |
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| freeflying | Riddell: I mean will you come to china for that party | 06:41 |
| jpatrick | he has to release then fly half-way around the world? ;) | 06:42 |
| Riddell | that would be very difficult, since I'd have to release kubuntu at the same time | 06:43 |
| freeflying | jpatrick: the party will be held at 22/4 | 06:43 |
| freeflying | Riddell: it will be at 22/4 | 06:43 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: is there a list somewhere that shows the NEW queue? | 07:02 |
| jpatrick | debian has one | 07:05 |
| Riddell | I don't think so | 07:06 |
| mornfall | so, i need UI advice | 07:08 |
| mornfall | should i make adept_installer horizontal-split or vertical-split or add a clickable (hyperlink-style?) "More..." to short description and extend in-place | 07:08 |
| Riddell | extend inplace sounds like it would resize the window, which might be unexpected | 07:11 |
| Riddell | horizontal-split or vertical-split depends on how wide the lists need to be, if they're just names with icons then they don't need to be too wide and horizontal would be best | 07:12 |
| mornfall | in-place would work as in adept manager | 07:12 |
| mornfall | but triggered by clicking a link in short description | 07:13 |
| Riddell | ah I see, well depend on how short of screen space it is then | 07:17 |
| mornfall | let's see | 07:19 |
| mornfall | i need fairly more width for the UI than gnome-app-install because of the category/list split | 07:19 |
| mornfall | also, gnome-app-install uses pretty tiny font for short description | 07:19 |
| Riddell | seems better to have the full description just there if it's possible | 07:20 |
| mornfall | you still need to click the item | 07:20 |
| Riddell | yep | 07:20 |
| mornfall | some short descriptions take 700 pixels of width here | 07:20 |
| mornfall | (for complete window) | 07:20 |
| Riddell | can they have word wrap? | 07:23 |
| mornfall | word-wrap will make the height uneven | 07:24 |
| mornfall | but it could be done | 07:24 |
| mornfall | (or at least i think it could) | 07:24 |
| mornfall | let's see what happens | 07:24 |
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| mornfall | oo wee, it segfaults | 07:28 |
| mornfall | hmm, infinite recursion => i suck :-) | 07:29 |
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| mornfall | hooray | 07:45 |
| mornfall | Riddell: http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-wordwrap.png -- i guess that's ok? (i have no idea who comes up with those descriptions, but maybe docteam could have a look) | 07:48 |
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| apachelogger | Riddell: are you around? | 07:51 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: hi | 07:51 |
| apachelogger | hola :-) | 07:51 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: there's still no kblogger on dapper-changes?! | 07:51 |
| mornfall | --> reddwarf | 07:51 |
| Riddell | mornfall: looking nice | 07:51 |
| Riddell | mornfall: I'd say there should be room at the side or bottom there for an extended description | 07:52 |
| jpatrick | apachelogger: in NEW queue | 07:55 |
| apachelogger | jpatrick: where can I see the new queue? | 07:55 |
| jpatrick | apachelogger: we don't know :/ | 07:55 |
| apachelogger | :| | 07:55 |
| apachelogger | quite long in already | 07:55 |
| jpatrick | apachelogger: i've waited a week for one of my packages | 07:56 |
| apachelogger | ah, ok :-) | 07:56 |
| jpatrick | lemme find some proof that it's alive.... | 07:58 |
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| jpatrick | apachelogger: near the buttom: https://launchpad.net/people/jr/+packages | 07:59 |
| jpatrick | 5th one from "Uploaded Packages" | 08:00 |
| incinerator | hi, i've got a question about laptop special keys, how is that handled for kde in kubuntu? I'd like to make some of my special keys work.... | 08:00 |
| apachelogger | jpatrick: thx | 08:00 |
| incinerator | basically, I've got this bug report: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/27318 | 08:04 |
| incinerator | i'd simply like to know which package to file it against.... | 08:04 |
| seth|lappy | xkb handles all that methinks | 08:07 |
| incinerator | well, i know there are special packages to deal with that, plus hotkey-setup, but that seems to be gnome-specific.... | 08:07 |
| incinerator | i filed it against hotkey-setup for now.... | 08:21 |
| Riddell | incinerator: if they're standard keys then it's a problem with kmilo | 08:23 |
| incinerator | hi jonathan, what do you mean with "standard keys"? | 08:27 |
| incinerator | it's partly about fn keys and some extra keys the laptop has.... | 08:28 |
| Riddell | there's standard keycodes for volume up/down etc | 08:28 |
| incinerator | ah ok | 08:29 |
| Riddell | which kmilo is ment to handle | 08:29 |
| incinerator | k, thx a lot | 08:29 |
| Riddell | codeine works great, kmplayer doesn't want to work at all | 08:29 |
| Riddell | allee: codeine approved, let me know if you want me to upload | 08:32 |
| allee | Riddell: oh, great. Wait a bit I found 2 typos afair I reupload soon and ping you | 08:34 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: as an MOTU - do I need to two MOTUs to approve on revu? | 08:36 |
| luka74 | incinerator: did you try Keyboard layouts? | 08:37 |
| incinerator | what do you mean? | 08:37 |
| luka74 | incinerator: I have yesterday submitted a bug to freedesktop for new keyboard layout | 08:37 |
| freeflying | how to use projector under dapper on ppc | 08:37 |
| luka74 | for my notebook (HP nw8240) | 08:37 |
| incinerator | oh i did not know that's the way to go.... | 08:38 |
| luka74 | Keyboard layout maps scancodes to keysyms (like XF86VolumeMute) that are then properly handled by kmilo | 08:38 |
| freeflying | Riddell: will u give some advice | 08:38 |
| luka74 | See bug 27542 for more links | 08:39 |
| incinerator | seems a wee bit of an overkill to me, creating a separate keyboard layout for every conceivable computer.... | 08:39 |
| incinerator | k, will do | 08:39 |
| luka74 | incinerator: I agree, but this is how some other notebooks are handled | 08:40 |
| luka74 | See also http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXKeyboardConfig | 08:40 |
| Riddell | allee: I believe so | 08:45 |
| Riddell | freeflying: sure | 08:45 |
| allee | Riddell: hmm, s/writen/written/ and I'm not Mercatante Bohnet. Fixed in svn but is it worth a upload+reviews? | 08:49 |
| Riddell | allee: naw, I can just fix it before uploading | 08:49 |
| allee | Riddell: I'll send you the diff, so I don't have to merge ;) | 08:50 |
| freeflying | Riddell: how to use project under dapper ppc | 08:50 |
| Riddell | freeflying: project? | 08:50 |
| allee | Riddell: sent | 08:51 |
| freeflying | Riddell: s/project/projector | 08:51 |
| Riddell | freeflying: you would need to speak to someone else with an iBook, but I believe getting an external display on iBooks with linux is difficult | 08:54 |
| Riddell | freeflying: amu has one, he might know, amu@kubuntu.de | 08:55 |
| jpatrick | there has got to be a easier way to keep KubuntuSuggestedPackages tidier | 08:56 |
| freeflying | Riddell: thx, That's maybe wyh can't I use projector with my ibook today | 08:56 |
| robotgeek | freeflying: ibook display is difficult | 08:57 |
| robotgeek | especially if you are short on time | 08:58 |
| jpatrick | JRe: ping | 08:58 |
| freeflying | robotgeek: yeah , when I try to use my ibook with projector, it didn't work | 09:01 |
| robotgeek | freeflying: i'll try to get it working, someone claimed that it worked on the ibook | 09:01 |
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| === robotgeek thinks he found some launchpad Nigerian spam :) | ||
| jpatrick | where? | 09:08 |
| robotgeek | https://launchpad.net/people/tonioy2k2000 | 09:08 |
| jpatrick | yeah...... | 09:09 |
| robotgeek | yay! | 09:10 |
| robotgeek | freeflying: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Apple_iBookG4_12in_1%2e33GHz is this your laptop model? | 09:11 |
| robotgeek | freeflying: you might find this useful http://tv.debian.net/articles/ibook-cloned-monitor/ | 09:12 |
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| incinerator | ridell, I've been doing some reading about these special keys etc. what about lineak, does kmilo interact with it? | 09:33 |
| Riddell | never heard of it (so probably not) | 09:33 |
| incinerator | because a kde config tool for has been uploaded to dapper.... | 09:34 |
| incinerator | http://lineak.sourceforge.net/ | 09:34 |
| Riddell | incinerator: klineakconfig doesn't do anything when I run it | 09:38 |
| luka74 | incinerator: according to /usr/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/inet xkb keyboard layouts are based on lineak | 09:39 |
| luka74 | (list of keyboards look very similar) | 09:39 |
| jpatrick | ah wicked, Ubuntu Installer informs you of packages | 09:41 |
| incinerator | oh ok | 09:42 |
| luka74 | it seems that symbols/inet is superset or lineak list | 09:43 |
| jpatrick | Riddell: heard of the bug in amaroK 1.4rc1 packs? | 09:50 |
| Riddell | jpatrick: nope | 09:50 |
| jpatrick | Amarok can't launch lyrics scripts because ruby is not installed: /usr/bin/env ruby: No such file or directory | 09:50 |
| jpatrick | kubuntu-devel mailing list | 09:51 |
| Riddell | hmm, so amarok should depend on ruby? | 09:51 |
| jpatrick | yes | 09:51 |
| Riddell | I'm not sure if we even have ruby on the CD by default, that could cause problems when it's in the distro (space wise mostly) | 09:52 |
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| _Sime | is it just me or does Adept in dapper like to crash a lot.... | 10:05 |
| Riddell | _Sime: what version? | 10:05 |
| jjesse | it used to crash a lot for me, but since i apt-get updated from flight3 to current version it is more stable | 10:05 |
| mornfall | current version is still fairly crashy | 10:06 |
| mornfall | at least compared to what i have now :) | 10:06 |
| mornfall | it's just that making releases is tiresome and time-consuming and boring and all :) | 10:07 |
| mornfall | so there'll be a beta on sunday | 10:07 |
| mornfall | but not before :) | 10:07 |
| mornfall | (probably will slip to monday if i code a lot over weekend) | 10:07 |
| _Sime | Riddell: I think I've got the current version. But I'm now in the process of upgrading/updating everything I can. | 10:08 |
| mornfall | _Sime: well, what does the about box say? | 10:09 |
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| _Sime | 1.89 viking alpha 2 | 10:10 |
| _Sime | the adept update notifier is neato. (although the red warning triangle is a bit scary) | 10:11 |
| mornfall | well, there's a known crash after update/apply | 10:11 |
| jjesse | maybe it is supposed to be scary to show that you need something updated :) | 10:11 |
| mornfall | on some systems it'll crash right away | 10:11 |
| jjesse | mornfall: i closed that one bug because it no longer affected my system | 10:11 |
| mornfall | jjesse: there's still the crash right away bug, but it's less widespread now :) | 10:12 |
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| _Sime | Riddell: BTW, displayconfig-hwprobe.py is not setup to execute at boottime (there are no links in /etc/rc3.d/). | 10:27 |
| Riddell | _Sime: link should be in /etc/rcS.d no? | 10:28 |
| Riddell | default runlevel is 2 though | 10:28 |
| Tm_T | ugh, one kind of LUG meeting :) | 10:28 |
| Riddell | Tm_T: hmm? | 10:28 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: new hardware in test | 10:29 |
| Tm_T | mac mini (as you maybe noticed) and also Nokia 770 | 10:29 |
| === Tm_T will try to get some Qt stuff to Nokia 770 some day | ||
| Tm_T | if I manage to buy my own :) | 10:29 |
| Riddell | jjesse: what's the problem with the quickguide stylesheet? | 10:31 |
| jjesse | well the one on doc.ubuntu.com for the quickguide doesn't look the same as the one on doc.ubuntu.com for release ntoes | 10:31 |
| jjesse | notes | 10:31 |
| _Sime | Riddell: oh. | 10:32 |
| === _Sime is a n00b. | ||
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| _Sime | Riddell: and indeed it is. :-) | 10:32 |
| Riddell | jjesse: hmm, neither of them work | 10:32 |
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| jjesse | Riddell: hmmm | 10:33 |
| Riddell | jjesse: it needs mdke to put the kde bits in /stable on the server | 10:34 |
| Riddell | _Sime: quite some newbie who can write an X configuration tool :) | 10:35 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: aye, I promised to keep Kubuntu/KDE presentation during this spring, I'll mail address and all so you can ship some discs :) | 10:35 |
| jjesse | Riddell: but they are all set for dapper? | 10:35 |
| Riddell | jjesse: I'm building a new snapshot now and they all work locally | 10:36 |
| jjesse | Riddell: awesome, then i'll make sure mdke gets those solved at his end | 10:36 |
| Riddell | jjesse: should I include the switching guide? | 10:36 |
| jjesse | Riddell: i don't know if it validates yet, i also need to finish it | 10:37 |
| Riddell | sebas: around? | 10:47 |
| allee | luka74: if there no bug the config of lineak and xkb-config should be identical for same keyboard? | 10:54 |
| luka74 | I supose... | 10:55 |
| allee | luka74, incinerator: what is your goal? Maybe worth to add to Kubuntu meeting topic tomorrow | 10:55 |
| allee | +? | 10:55 |
| incinerator | oh, i'm just a guest.... | 10:55 |
| incinerator | probably won't be in today.... | 10:56 |
| luka74 | I would only like to have my notebook supported out of box - and keyboard setting is one thing that bothers me | 10:56 |
| allee | incinerator: we're not a closed group ;) join #ubuntu-meeting tomorrow 20 UTC (see channel title) | 10:56 |
| incinerator | okies | 10:56 |
| Riddell | jjesse: desktopguide needs KDEifying badly | 10:56 |
| luka74 | I will try to join tommorow | 10:57 |
| incinerator | well, i would have something.... | 10:57 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: yes :) | 10:57 |
| Riddell | robotgeek: is that on your TODO? | 10:57 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: i'm the "main" guy on the Kubuntu Desktop Guide | 10:57 |
| incinerator | laptoptesting encourages people to record unrecognised keycodes etc. and file a bug, i did so but the bug was never touched by anybody.... | 10:57 |
| luka74 | fact is that there is lot's of different stuff duing similar stuff (xkb, lineak, kmilo...) - and they do not play that nicely together | 10:57 |
| Tm_T | http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac.png && http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac2.png | 10:57 |
| Tm_T | ;) | 10:57 |
| Riddell | I'm not talking about content just now, but about changing from xincludes to old fashioned stuff that meinproc can understand | 10:57 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: that means getting rid of the menus.xml stuff? | 10:58 |
| allee | luka74: xkb is the right thing (tm) ;) lineak and kmilo and other try to work on keycode without having a right keysym assiged | 10:58 |
| incinerator | it seems there's no person for kubuntu who feels responsible for dealing with these laptoptesting issues..... | 10:58 |
| Riddell | robotgeek: I don't see that | 10:59 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: sorry, i'm still weak on docbook. | 10:59 |
| incinerator | perhaps one could be appointed (not me!) | 10:59 |
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| allee | incinerator: take back 'not me!' and we can start to vote ;) | 10:59 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: i'm moving this weekend, i'll get to work next week | 10:59 |
| luka74 | allee: I think so too (but I am no expert) - this is why I submitted bug to freedesktop.org and I hope to get some feedback from them | 10:59 |
| Riddell | incinerator: yes, we don't have the manpower is the issue | 10:59 |
| incinerator | okies, well, if someone could show me how to update hotkey-setup and kmilo and whatever, i could surely do it, it doesn't seem to be the most diffucilt task to me, but I've got absolutely no exp maintaining packages etc. I would have to learn that.... | 11:00 |
| allee | incinerator: where are the kubuntu specific hardware problems listed? You mean someone needs check every Laptoptesting/... subpage? | 11:01 |
| Riddell | robotgeek: have you asked for access to the SVN archive? | 11:01 |
| incinerator | no, off course not | 11:01 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: i don't think there is enough stuff in there to cause serious problems yet | 11:01 |
| luka74 | I have some interest with getting good laptop support (at least HP) as I am pushing other notebook users toward Kubuntu ;-) | 11:01 |
| Riddell | robotgeek: in where? | 11:01 |
| luka74 | (in my compay) | 11:01 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: no, i am not yet a member. I'm applying this meeting | 11:01 |
| incinerator | allee: people are supposed to file BRs for these reports.... | 11:01 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: in the Kubuntu Desktop Guide. I am sure I can fix all that is needed in a day, so I am currently brushing up my docbook skills | 11:02 |
| === allee is currently hopefully lost in flood on bug reports :( | ||
| incinerator | thing is, laptoptesting docs at the wiki don't tell how to mark a BR as laptoptesting specific, that should be sorted out, as well. | 11:02 |
| luka74 | allee: I made special testing page for my Kubuntu tests - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HPNW8240/Kubuntu | 11:03 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: right now, the stuff validates with xsltproc, i'll switch it over to meinproc after reading KDE documentation guidelines more thoroughly | 11:03 |
| allee | incinerator: create a Laptop Testing team and assing those bugs to them? | 11:03 |
| Riddell | robotgeek: get jsgotango to help you maybe, but it just needs changed from xinclues to old style includes | 11:03 |
| incinerator | allee: yup | 11:04 |
| robotgeek | Riddell: will do, thanks | 11:04 |
| allee | incinerator: did you ask on #lauchpad? | 11:04 |
| allee | luka74: checking ... | 11:04 |
| incinerator | no not yet, I just did some triage on bugs I reported.... | 11:04 |
| incinerator | such a team probably exists already anyways, but it's not kubuntu-specific | 11:05 |
| allee | incinerator: nevertheless it would be nice to have laptoptsting bug further categorized as base, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu ... | 11:05 |
| incinerator | yes, but that can wait.... | 11:05 |
| incinerator | if we get these keycode things it can happen that it gets fixed in gnome but not in kde it seems.... | 11:06 |
| === robotgeek goes back to packing | ||
| incinerator | and that should be dealt with for every BR filed regarding keycodes etc. anyways.... | 11:06 |
| allee | incinerator: I'm just pondering if tagging isn't a better concept than my suggested 'Team' | 11:06 |
| luka74 | incinerator: exactly - this is why I created new report for my notebook and open new bug requests | 11:06 |
| incinerator | possibly, but I don't know how "tagging" works :-( | 11:07 |
| incinerator | and you've got to get the bug reporters to do it or someone to do the bug triage | 11:07 |
| allee | incinerator: I've no idea if tags exissts in launchpad ;) | 11:07 |
| incinerator | thing is, once we know what keycodes are supposed to mean what, it's easy to fix even if the bug reporter is not using kde.... | 11:08 |
| incinerator | and that data should be in the bug report if the laptoptesting procedure is adhered to... | 11:08 |
| incinerator | brb, cigarette... | 11:09 |
| incinerator | back | 11:12 |
| incinerator | allee: anyways, I'll try to get to the meeting tomorrow and we'll see if I can be any help..... | 11:12 |
| allee | luka74: argl!!!!! You point me to a page that sets DPI via -dpi? | 11:13 |
| luka74 | allee: do you have better solution (I hate it too)? | 11:14 |
| luka74 | autodetection is just plain wrong and results in ugly fonts (larger than dialogs/windows) | 11:14 |
| allee | luka74: a) grep -i dimension /var/log/Xorg.0.log # that a rules and check | 11:15 |
| allee | luka74: b) if not correct Set 'DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm' in Monitor section of xorg.conf | 11:15 |
| allee | luka74: c) if a is correct, change the font size in kcontrol center | 11:16 |
| luka74 | no dimension in my Xorg.0.log - just DPI | 11:16 |
| luka74 | Sorry - it is in autodetected mode: | 11:17 |
| luka74 | (--) fglrx(0): Display dimensions: (330, 210) mm | 11:17 |
| luka74 | ( | 11:17 |
| allee | luka74: and is this correct? | 11:18 |
| luka74 | about right | 11:19 |
| allee | luka74: okay then c) ;) | 11:19 |
| allee | luka74: you want smaller fonts. then change the fontsize and don't ly about the dimemsion of your screen via -dpi | 11:20 |
| luka74 | but that is painful: it should look nice out-of-box | 11:20 |
| luka74 | not ugly with text getting out of initial login screen (and splash) | 11:20 |
| allee | luka74: that a bug in login screen! :( :( I see it everyday here too | 11:21 |
| luka74 | I will reboot now and will try playing around a bit with font sizes | 11:22 |
| allee | luka74: no need to restart. Logout and Alt-ctrl-backspace is enough to active a new xorg.conf setting | 11:23 |
| allee | s/restart/reboot/ | 11:23 |
| luka74 | I know, but I also got new acpi-support and would not like some side effects on next hibernate... | 11:24 |
| allee | luka74: ah, even better is to use k-menu -> new session | 11:24 |
| allee | ah, ok | 11:24 |
| mornfall | allee: the problem with dpi setting is that the renderer is far from optimal and it produces weird results at certain pixel sizes | 11:24 |
| mornfall | allee: if you set the dpi to something reasonable, most font sizes look OK | 11:25 |
| mornfall | like going from real to 96 made my fonts fairly more readable | 11:25 |
| mornfall | at roughly same pixel size | 11:25 |
| luka74 | mornfall: that is exactly my impression - 100 (or 120) looks much better than autodetected 147 | 11:26 |
| mornfall | it's virtually impossible to tune the renderer for *all* DPI settings | 11:26 |
| mornfall | considering lack of real hinting in our fonts | 11:26 |
| allee | mornfall: decreasing dpi mean using less pixel for the glyhcs. YOu can achieve the same when you set in kcontrol a smaller fontsize | 11:27 |
| mornfall | and eg. vera has embedded bitmaps for some pixel sizes -- which are useless if all your dpi makes all font sizes different from those | 11:27 |
| allee | mornfall: AND this work without logout/login be root hack config files and what else | 11:27 |
| mornfall | allee: that would require kcontrol to allow setting pixel sizes... which it doesn't | 11:27 |
| mornfall | allee: it uses points and then you are lucky or not to hit the right pixel size at which font renders good :) | 11:28 |
| allee | instead of reduzing dpi by 20% reduce pts used for font by 20%. | 11:28 |
| mornfall | allee: unfortunately, that gives 8.8 point size font, and kcontrol does not seem to support that :) | 11:29 |
| allee | mornfall: in kcontrol you see immediately show the font will looks like! That's user friendly | 11:29 |
| mornfall | it's user friendly, but that does not make the font look any better | 11:29 |
| mornfall | giving at least 0.1pt scale would help a lot :) | 11:30 |
| mornfall | but i suspect there are more problems with that | 11:30 |
| mornfall | till then, i'll just set my dpi to 96 thanks :) | 11:30 |
| allee | mornfall: well the only 'uglyness' I've seen is that at ~ 120, 2 px are used as width. so from 100 -> 120 dpi regular looks bit more like bold. but after sometime one gets used it it ... | 11:31 |
| allee | going back 120 -> 100 ohne has the impression that one has to concentrate to see the thin lines | 11:32 |
| mornfall | i like thin fonts, they look sexy :-) | 11:32 |
| mornfall | unfortunately fontconfig is such a bitch that i cannot have different hinting for different fonts | 11:32 |
| mornfall | and konsole font needs hintfull to be useful at this size | 11:33 |
| === incinerator [n=incinera@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #kubuntu-devel [] | ||
| === claydoh [n=clay@65.99.186.207] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| allee | mornfall: I thought hints are necessary for small pixel sizes? Today monitor tend to have more and more pixel/points | 11:35 |
| mornfall | i have an oldish 17" monitor :-) | 11:39 |
| === ubijtsa [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| allee | mornfall: and modern fonts ttf don't include an oldish 75dpi pixel font? Pity :( | 11:45 |
| === allee will saves this dpi thread for as basis for a wiki page | ||
| === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| luka74 | allee: I am now on autodetected mode and fonts are just huge | 11:49 |
| luka74 | I can set most of them in System settings (down by 2pt) | 11:50 |
| luka74 | but I will still need to play with lots of manual changes as some apps do not care | 11:50 |
| allee | luka74: are the dimensin you find in Xorg.0.conf correct? If yes then you just don't like the default :) | 11:51 |
| luka74 | Konversation, date/time in kicker, KHTML in Akregator... | 11:51 |
| mornfall | allee: if it was 75dpi bitmap, it is useless on a 102dpi display | 11:51 |
| mornfall | allee: (there are either 75 or 96 or 100 bitmap fonts that i know of... and neither of them can be used on a 102dpi display) | 11:52 |
| mornfall | s/neither/none/ | 11:52 |
| luka74 | allee: dimension is OK, but I cannot accept default as it is now ;-) | 11:53 |
| allee | mornfall: is the software really that non-fuzzy that a special case for 100 is not use with 102? | 11:53 |
| luka74 | I agree with mornfall that setting dpi to 120 or 100 is just simplier and better | 11:53 |
| mornfall | allee: it may be used at 102, but definitely not at 112 | 11:53 |
| mornfall | allee: because that's just too far | 11:53 |
| mornfall | if it's 102 it's probably "wrong but better looking" | 11:54 |
| mornfall | +for | 11:54 |
| allee | luka74: if you find an app, where you didn't set a font size and it does not rescale (at least after restart) it's IMHO a bug/wish that's worth reporting | 11:58 |
| luka74 | allee: problem is that I have to modify many apps (cannot just globaly say all fonts -20% size) | 11:59 |
| luka74 | And that is a lot of work and not out-of-box solution (which is why I love Kubuntu) | 12:00 |
| allee | mornfall: better looking, fonts too big too small .... would be nice to have screenshots of such cases | 12:00 |
| allee | luka74: the global -20% for standard and app-spefic fonts size is a feature that does not exists in KDE (I assume it because I have never seen it) | 12:02 |
| === mornfall notes he currently gave up on free fonts -- using some maybe-pirated ttf's | ||
| === allee suggest then not to document this via public available screenshots | ||
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