[12:15] <raphink> Riddell: http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/Dapper
[12:15] <raphink> Riddell: thsi is the result of a meeting on #klik
[12:16] <raphink> Riddell: I invited the guys to come on thursday 
[02:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping
[06:19] <robotgeek> Riddell: ping
[06:21] <robotgeek> can anyone tell me what packages to install instead of gstreamer (xine multiverse packages, but which ones)
[06:27] <Hobbsee> amarok-xine i think it is
[06:27] <Hobbsee> not sure of anything else
[06:28] <robotgeek> okay, i'll defer writing that part till later
[06:31] <paulproteus> Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency.
[06:57] <theball> anyone open for a few questions?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> theball: try asking the questions, then wait to see if you get a reply - not sure if anyone's here
[06:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping
[06:57] <theball> i noticed it was quiet
[06:57] <theball> hi Hobbsee
[06:58] <Hobbsee> yeah, it's often quiet - seems that people sleep
[06:58] <theball> i wonder if anyone has had luck getting gl support in dapper, if so how?
[07:18] <Hobbsee> think i'll go fix that...
[07:25] <Hobbsee>  hey how should i go fix a bug in mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail?  https://launchpad.net/products/enigmail shows it's not filed in malone - do i just submit a debdiff there, and file a bug, or what?
[07:39] <Mez> morning Sarah
[07:41] <Hobbsee> no one calls me Sarah online lol!
[07:41] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: we all no your name now
[07:42] <Hobbsee> true
[07:42] <Hobbsee> feels weird though :P
[07:42] <robotgeek> s/no/know
[07:44] <Mez> lol
[07:44] <Hobbsee> morning Mez 
[07:44] <Mez> morning :D
[07:44] <Hobbsee> :D
[07:45] <crimsun> I was under the impression that most of us knew some time ago...
[07:46] <Hobbsee> yeah, probably
[07:47] <Hobbsee> hehe - well i *have* had a rather eventful day today...
[07:47] <paulproteus> /whosi Hobbsee
[07:47] <paulproteus> Uh, oops.  Tee-hee.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> what about it lol?
[07:48] <Mez> It doesnt list her name :D
[07:49] <Hobbsee> :D it's been changed not to!
[08:06] <Hobbsee> at least this builds quickly...
[08:09] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:09] <Hobbsee> crud
[08:09] <Mez> it'd be very nice to see it in ubuntu
[08:11] <Hobbsee> darn, cant get the lastest version of enigmail anyway - site's down!
[08:11] <Mez> lol
[08:12] <Hobbsee> stupid thing - i want to use the package again!
[08:18] <Hobbsee> heh, and now the entire site died.
[08:18] <Hobbsee> stupid site :P
[09:03] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: where do i report KDE 3.5.1 bugs?
[09:03] <Hobbsee> malone, assign it to kdebugs or something
[09:04] <robotgeek> my feeds add to akregator stopped working
[09:05] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: assign it to kubuntu team
[09:05] <Hobbsee> i think everything gets picked up from there
[09:05] <Hobbsee> ubijtsa2: uh oh, what's it trying to remove?  and did you have kubuntu-desktop metapackage installed before upgrading?
[09:05] <ubijtsa2> Hobbsee: let me do a pastebin
[09:05] <Hobbsee> yep
[09:06] <ubijtsa2> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8694
[09:07] <ubijtsa2> that's only the bit's it'll remove though.
[09:07] <ubijtsa2> I can add all the rest if you like
[09:08] <Hobbsee> ubijtsa2: no, tha'ts fine - that stuff all looks ok - it's either unneeded or replaced with something else
[09:08] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: heh, it was not a bug after all. 
[09:08] <ubijtsa2> so once done, I can re-install amarok and it'll just work yeah?
[09:08] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: what was it?
[09:08] <Hobbsee> ubijtsa2: amarok was changed to using the xine engine by default, instead of amarok
[09:09] <ubijtsa2> ah
[09:09] <Hobbsee> ahem, not amarok, gstreamer
[09:09] <Tm_T> =)
[09:09] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: silly you
[09:09] <Hobbsee> hehe yeah, silly me
[09:09] <Hobbsee> must have gone crazy again
[09:09] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: in Konqueror, when feeds are detected, it has a nice thing at the bottom. which you can click and add feeds to akregator. that clickable area is not very small
[09:09] <ubijtsa2> so if I install the xine engine, amarok would be upgraded instead of removed.. right?
[09:09] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: I have that effect to people...
[09:09] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:10] <Hobbsee> ubijtsa2: you'll probably find it being installed by default, with upgrading amarok
[09:10] <robotgeek> Tm_T: where's your patch for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide :)
[09:10] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: ah ok
[09:10] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: see it?
[09:10] <Tm_T> robotgeek: can't do it too soon, sorry
[09:10] <ubijtsa2> Hobbsee: okidoki.. keep fingers/toes crossed... :)
[09:10] <robotgeek> Tm_T: heh, okay
[09:10] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:11] <Tm_T> robotgeek: have to do my best to get school going on, fucking mental problems
[09:14] <ubijtsa2> right, download running..
[09:18] <Tm_T> also, we are still missing leader in ubuntu-artwork
[09:18] <Tm_T> I have no idea what I should do in that front

[09:34] <hunger> It is a nice little app.
[09:40] <mornfall> hunger: what's up with it? :)
[09:41] <hunger> mornfall: I do not understand how to install stuff with it.
[09:41] <ubijtsa2> I find adept has usability problems. compared to Synaptic, Adept is hard work
[09:41] <hunger> I got a list of packages, filtered on a tag (whatever that is).
[09:41] <hunger> Then I clicked on that > in front of an deb.
[09:42] <mornfall> aaaaaaaaaaaa
[09:42] <hunger> THen I clicked on the button showing up there (not the details one, the one that randomly keeps changing descriptions).
[09:42] <mornfall> you randomly change descriptions *bah*
[09:42] <hunger> Then I went to the toolbar, doing "Apply Changes".
[09:42] <mornfall> so
[09:43] <hunger> Which imediently got me an error.
[09:43] <mornfall> interesting :-)
[09:43] <hunger> And a red "x" icon in front of the tag I selected earlier.
[09:43] <mornfall> that icon needs changing
[09:43] <mornfall> it's just to remove the tag
[09:44] <hunger> mornfall: Oh, right, it is there from right when I dropped the tag there.
[09:44] <hunger> mornfall: no icon necessary: You can just drag the tag back...
[09:44] <mornfall> hunger: sure, but is that intuitive enough? :)
[09:45] <hunger> mornfall: I only noticed it after I got an error, so I assumed that is OK.
[09:45] <mornfall> (i am quite proud of the drag tags back to remove them thing -- shame i did not invent it)
[09:45] <hunger> mornfall: Dragging something back you had to drag in to set seems more intuitive then clicking on something.
[09:46] <hunger> mornfall: You might consider adding a right context menu "I want this/I do not want this" to the tags:-)
[09:47] <hunger> By the way: How does the update notification thing work?
[09:47] <hunger> Does it apt-get update at regular intervals?
[09:48] <mornfall> a cronjob does that, at least it should
[09:48] <mornfall> it just checks the cache status
[09:48] <hunger> mornfall: How often?
[09:48] <mornfall> the cronjob? daily
[09:48] <hunger> mornfall: I have to change that to at least hourly for dapper;-)
[09:49] <mornfall> most mirrors only update daily anyway?
[09:49] <hunger> mornfall: The mirrors yes, the archive does definitly update more often.
[09:50] <mornfall> *shrug* i don't see the need to make it configurable anyway :-)
[09:50] <mornfall> you will want to twiddle with crontab or something in that case
[09:50] <hunger> mornfall: You can't get it below 1d anyway.
[09:50] <mornfall> oh you can, if you want :-)
[09:51] <hunger> mornfall: the apt-script does not do that.
[09:51] <mornfall> it's just a script... scripts can be changed
[09:51] <hunger> mornfall: Oh, sure you can, but not with the standard script.
[09:53] <hunger> mornfall: If I start changing stuff because of such tiny annoyances, then I can start my own distribution:-)
[09:54] <mornfall> hmm, time to write commit logs :|
[09:55] <mornfall> good, good :-)
[09:56] <hunger> Maybe I'll love adept as well, once I figure out how to use it;-)
[09:56] <mornfall> hunger: what error does it give when you try to apply changes?
[09:56] <mornfall> (that's actually not normal, hasn't happened here for ages)
[09:57] <hunger> mornfall: Something about a failed download.
[09:57] <mornfall> hunger: hmm, and adept updater works?
[09:57] <hunger> mornfall: It did not do anything before giving the error (no text in the area that lists the downloads).
[09:58] <hunger> mornfall: Yes, like a charm
[09:58] <hunger> mornfall: adept did download something later (not what I wanted installed, but it did download something).
[09:58] <mornfall> hunger: could you run it from konsole and paste the output it gives somewhere? (rafb.net/paste eg)
[09:59] <hunger> mornfall: I can try, but it does download now.
[09:59] <hunger> mornfall: Maybe I had a broken package or something in my selection.
[10:01] <hunger> How about opening new windows or tabs instead? That way it would be easier to get back to the original view.
[10:02] <hunger> Why is "Manage Repositories" in two different menus?
[10:02] <hunger> Where are the inactive filters?
[10:03] <mornfall> right click the filter area
[10:03] <mornfall> but there aren't many available that are not on by default :)
[10:03] <mornfall> manage repositories, well, i haven't made up my mind about that yet
[10:03] <mornfall> adding tabs would horribly confuse the interface
[10:03] <mornfall> so would opening new windows
[10:04] <mornfall> you won't ever do more than one of those things at once anyway
[10:04] <mornfall> (you can't, even if it was in a separate tab or window)
[10:04] <hunger> mornfall: Isen't it better to confuse the interface then to confuse the user;-)
[10:04] <mornfall> why would user be confused :-)
[10:04] <hunger> mornfall: Yes, but the way you do it you introduce modes which is bad.
[10:05] <mornfall> no
[10:05] <mornfall> modes are good
[10:05] <mornfall> modeless apps suck
[10:05] <hunger> mornfall: VI is good UI wise?
[10:05] <mornfall> it's definitely better than most editors, yes :-)
[10:05] <mornfall> from usability POV
[10:05] <mornfall> (not from learnability, but that's a different thing)
[10:06] <mornfall> modes make it possible to do an interface for the task good
[10:06] <mornfall> i have no idea who raskin is
[10:06] <mornfall> it does not change anything about the fact modes are good :)
[10:07] <hunger> mornfall: One of the guys behind the original mac gui. Wrote a book, too.
[10:07] <mornfall> well, you don't want your filemanager and webbrowser to be a nonmodal mess
[10:07] <mornfall> :-)
[10:07] <mornfall> (one example for all)
[10:08] <mornfall> i don't see how opening half dozen windows instead of using one will give you anything but clutter
[10:08] <hunger> mornfall: I consider myself a advanced user, I know apt pretty well, using it on the commandline each day. I should not have problems with a package management gui. Yet adept confuses me.
[10:08] <mornfall> (each for one mode)
[10:08] <hunger> mornfall: It gives you a well understood way back.
[10:09] <hunger> mornfall: Took me a while to get back to where I started from "Show Last Downloads".
[10:10] <hunger> mornfall: My mom would have just close the app and reopened it to get back.
[10:11] <mornfall> hunger: your mom is very far from target audience
[10:11] <hunger> mornfall: What is your target audience?
[10:12] <mornfall> hunger: for adept manager? non-newbies
[10:12] <mornfall> hunger: your mom does not give a damn about package dependencies or file lists, hmm?
[10:12] <hunger> mornfall: non-newbies == people having used linux for a couple of years?
[10:12] <mornfall> hunger: or the fact that updates need to be fetched explicitly
[10:12] <hunger> That's my mom;-)
[10:13] <mornfall> no, users that have some understanding of the packaging system
[10:13] <hunger> mornfall: Updates are fetched automatically each day. That is enough.
[10:13] <mornfall> not on dialup
[10:13] <mornfall> etc
[10:14] <mornfall> adept manager is *not* a dumb-down interface
[10:14] <mornfall> there's updater that should guide you fairly well through updates
[10:14] <hunger> mornfall: Neither is synaptic.
[10:14] <mornfall> and there'll be adept installer as soon as Riddell or mvo or someone makes the data package
[10:14] <hunger> mornfall: Still she knows how to use that to install stuff.
[10:15] <mornfall> hunger: without any training?
[10:15] <hunger> mornfall: I showed her once or twice.
[10:15] <mornfall> what stuff, also?
[10:15] <mornfall> how does she find what she needs in synaptic?
[10:15] <hunger> mornfall: Simple things... she types in "chess" and basically installs everything that shows up:-)
[10:16] <mornfall> not too different
[10:16] <mornfall> enter text to Search:
[10:16] <mornfall> right click packages -> install (or click their names to unroll and click install)
[10:17] <mornfall> hit apply changes
[10:17] <mornfall> quit
[10:17] <mornfall> i'd say that's fairly easy to install
[10:17] <mornfall> why would she go and look at "last download"?
[10:17] <mornfall> it's there for people that need to instpect download errors
[10:17] <mornfall> inspect*
[10:17] <mornfall> does your mom do that?
[10:18] <hunger> mornfall: Because she is nosy and likes to poke into dark corners to see what is there.
[10:18] <mornfall> i don't think the tenet of user interface is to be random-click resistant
[10:18] <mornfall> if she gets stuck, she can always restart the app
[10:18] <mornfall> as you said
[10:18] <hunger> mornfall: No. But it should offer an easy way back.
[10:18] <mornfall> right, close, start
[10:18] <mornfall> that's easy :)
[10:19] <hunger> mornfall: Yes, you just loose your selection that way.
[10:19] <mornfall> i'd say it's mostly hypotethical problem
[10:19] <hunger> Why is the opposit of "Install Package" "keep Package"?
[10:19] <mornfall> because that's the way apt currently works
[10:20] <mornfall> i will redo it at some point
[10:20] <hunger> I do not want it installed... so why should I want to keep it?
[10:20] <mornfall> you keep it in current state
[10:20] <mornfall> you know what? you should send patches :-)
[10:21] <mornfall> hunger: also, most of the components are in libept, you can fairly easily make a modeless interface
[10:21] <hunger> mornfall: No time. I'm just spending my breakfast break trying to figure out what that strange new icon in my tasktray is:-)
[10:21] <mornfall> you have long breakfast breaks :)
[10:22] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:22] <mornfall> and i have little time
[10:22] <mornfall> need to go to work *today*
[10:22] <hunger> mornfall: Actually I should have been back to work for a while, but got stuck talking to you:-)
[10:22] <hunger> mornfall: Well, thanks for explaining things to me. See you around later.
[10:49] <allee> codeine: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1791
[11:16] <Tonio_> hello everyone
[11:17] <Hobbsee> hi Tonio_ 
[11:18] <Hobbsee> you do the default settings, dont you?
[11:18] <Hobbsee> or otherwise my brain is totally crazy, and has swapped people
[11:18] <Tonio_> I'm doing on it, which doesn't mean everything will be kept :)
[11:18] <Hobbsee> because there was some stuff that i'd intended to tell you, an dhave now totally forgotten
[11:18] <Tonio_> that is to be discussed on the kubuntu meeting 02/16
[11:19] <Hobbsee> of course ;)
[11:19] <Tonio_> if you have any ideal, plz tell me :)
[11:19] <Hobbsee> yeah i'll try
[11:25] <Tonio_> the meeting is tomorow, so I'll write a little documentation including the diverse modifications to be discussed
[11:25] <Hobbsee> *nods*
[11:25] <Tonio_> if you have new ones, possibly asking during he meeting is the best thing to do
[11:25] <Tonio_> then I'll have a few days to add all voted modifications, and get the package uploaded
[11:27] <Riddell> Hobbsee: pong
[11:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah yes *tries to organise brain*
[11:29] <Hobbsee> there's a bug in avahi-daemon - it's fixed in dapper, were they going to backport that fix into breezy?
[11:29] <Hobbsee> there's a debdiff that ljl wrote for breezy to fix it, if you like
[11:29] <Hobbsee> there are lots of duplicate bug reports for it, so it might just be worht fixing
[11:30] <Riddell> where is the debdiff?
[11:30] <Riddell> robotgeek_zzz: pong
[11:30] <Riddell> robotgeek_zzz: libxine-extracodecs
[11:30] <Hobbsee> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/30669
[11:33] <cmvo> Riddell: Hi! I want to locally mirror the kde 3.51 package for breezy and noticed that each Packages file contains entries for all three architectures.
[11:34] <cmvo> Riddell: Is this by design or a side effect of apt-ftparchive?
[11:35] <Riddell> cmvo: most likely its down to some incorrect usage of mine for apt-ftparchive 
[11:36] <Riddell> cmvo: you can see how I make the file with the ARCHIVE script
[11:37] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't see a debdiff there
[11:37] <Hobbsee> so i'm lost?  *goes to look*
[11:38] <Hobbsee> indeed i am - try https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/31458
[11:43] <cmvo> Riddell: Ok, I'll adapt my scripts.
[11:44] <Riddell> cmvo: if you know how to fix it that would be great :)
[11:45] <cmvo> Riddell: The archive or my scripts? ;-)
[11:45] <Riddell> the archive
[11:46] <cmvo> Riddell: I haven't used apt-ftparchive in a while, but I'll take a look at the config.
[11:47] <Riddell> cmvo: what do you use?
[11:48] <cmvo> Riddell: I mirror the Packages file too.
[11:55] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: oh, can we replace kate with kwrite as the default kde text editor?  people keep saying that kate crashes
[11:56] <Riddell> I've never had kate crash
[11:56] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: sever also
[11:56] <Hobbsee> lucky, Riddell :P
[11:56] <Tonio_> and to what I know, write is kate, but with simplified menus
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: am I wrong on that point ?
[11:56] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: sever?
[11:56] <Tonio_> s/sever/never :)
[11:56] <Riddell> and kwrite being just kate with a different layout will crash just as often
[11:56] <Hobbsee> hmm...weird
[11:57] <Riddell> on the other hand the profiles stuff in kate in kde 3.5 is just weird
[11:57] <Tonio_> there is something that drives me nuts recently with kate. the sessions management
[11:57] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure that i tested it with 3.5.1, but i thought i saw some errors for it
[11:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: exactly
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: I may include little modifications in kubuntu-default-settings on that point, cause really I can't stand that sessions management default settings... should be discussed on kubuntu meeting of course ;)
[11:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure, Anders did some blogging about it a while ago
[11:59] <Tonio_> okay, that'll go in KDS so ;)
[11:59] <sealne> are there any reasons atm for kded in dapper to keep crashing every second?
[12:00] <Riddell> sealne: nope
[12:00] <mornfall> sealne: yes
[12:00] <mornfall> sealne: it's broken :)
[12:00] <Riddell> sealne: get a backtrace?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, and kdesu kwrite seems to open faster than kdesu kate :D
[12:01] <sealne> its very hard to do anything with crash handler appearing every second :)
[12:01] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[12:02] <Hobbsee> yeah, i had that problem a couple of times too - it does get in the way!
[12:02] <sealne> www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedcrash.txt
[12:03] <sealne> just when i'd found a graphics card that dapper would talk to :-/
[12:05] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: the fact that you are in previous session is the crappy default settingwe're talking about
[12:05] <Hobbsee> ah, i see - so i'm not a moron after all?
[12:05] <Tonio_> when you use kdesu, it doesn't use your account profile like sudo does
[12:05] <Riddell> sealne: that'll be avahi
[12:05] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that's the reason I want to change that in the KDS package
[12:05] <Hobbsee> ah ok :)
[12:05] <Tonio_> that'll apply even to the root account
[12:06] <Hobbsee> yes, which is why the fonts are all screwed up?
[12:06] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: are you with dapper ?
[12:06] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: indeed
[12:06] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: ho the font size with kdesu ?
[12:06] <Hobbsee> well, the kdesu fonts are different than the normal fonts
[12:06] <Tonio_> yes that's normally crappy, and is to be fixed with KDS package too
[12:07] <mornfall> XDS = ?
[12:07] <mornfall> KDS*
[12:07] <Hobbsee> um...i didnt like the font, so i switched - what's the default size?
[12:07] <Tonio_> that's all I'm working on actually, make the default profile nice, cause that'll apply to the root account also
[12:07] <Hobbsee> i'm using sans serif 14 and it all looks fine
[12:07] <Tonio_> kubuntu-default-settings =KDS
[12:07] <Riddell> sealne: as a quick fix rm /usr/share/services/kded/dnssdwatcher.desktop  should work
[12:07] <jpatrick> 14? that's huge
[12:07] <Tonio_> easy to write
[12:08] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: don't know what will be the default size.... dpi will certainly be fixed to 100 some way, and the default size will be 8 or 9 probably...
[12:09] <Tonio_> jpatrick: you need to check 9 with dpi set to 100 to be sure ;)
[12:09] <Tonio_> 9 can look like 8 depending your DPI
[12:09] <jpatrick> ok
[12:09] <sealne> Riddell: still crashing after removing that and loggining in again
[12:10] <Tonio_> on many computers, 9 is like 8 or 8 like 9.... that's problem with xorg + fontconfig, and also the reason we think about fixing that to 100
[12:10] <Hobbsee> size 9?  sheesh!
[12:10] <Hobbsee> it's barely readable on my screen!
[12:10] <jpatrick> right...
[12:10] <Tonio_> dpi + font to 8 is about the same size that on Windows or OSX by default.... it is a size people are used to use, and that may not hurt them if they think about migrating to kubuntu...
[12:10] <Hobbsee> 12 looks ok though
[12:11] <Hobbsee> ah ok
[12:11] <jpatrick> sealne: need someone to look at dcfldd?
[12:11] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: try fixing the DPI to 100, then use 9 and 8 and you'll see :)
[12:11] <Hobbsee> it may just be my screen and dpi - this is a laptop run at 1024x768
[12:11] <sealne> jpatrick: yes please
[12:11] <Hobbsee> how do i fix my dpi to 100?
[12:11] <Tonio_> it is not possible to judge the font size if DPI is not fixed, cause the renderring will different from a computer to another
[12:12] <allee> Hobbsee: Please set DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm in xorg.conf's Monitor section
[12:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: in kdmrc, on serverargslocal, add "-dpi 100" at the end of the command
[12:12] <allee> Tonio_: Noooo :)
[12:12] <Tonio_> that's the easier way to just test
[12:12] <Hobbsee> lol!
[12:12] <Tonio_> allee: to TEST ;)
[12:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: so don't listen to my mentor ;) listen to me
[12:13] <jpatrick> sealne: that is one funky debian/watch :/
[12:13] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:14] <allee> Hobbsee: if you use  DisplaySize it will preserve your (future) nice setup independendly
[12:14] <sealne> jpatrick: i hate debian/watch enough already
[12:15] <Hobbsee> allee: that does mean i need a tape measure, which i dont have lol
[12:15] <Tonio_> allee: note that I agree with you concerning the global setting to set the dpi directly within xorg.conf
[12:16] <allee> Hobbsee: poor guy
[12:16] <jpatrick> sealne: put "http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*)\.tar\.gz" instead
[12:16] <Tonio_> allee: got informations on the way gnome sets the fonts ?
[12:16] <Tonio_> I just learned that they were not using fontconfig, which kde does
[12:16] <sealne> jpatrick: i have had every possible combination in debian/watch
[12:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's in gnome-settings-daemon, and it just sets Xft not the whole X display
[12:17] <allee> lunch time. bbl
[12:17] <sealne> jpatrick: i was told not to use a mirror
[12:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: can that be reproduced on kubuntu ?
[12:17] <jpatrick> just saw that
[12:17] <Hobbsee> i need to restart x, i take it?
[12:17] <Lathiat> mm amarok is much more stable now, its been playing a stream for 24 hours and hasnt crashed :)
[12:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103507  not all gnomes like using a hardcoded dpi
[12:18] <Tonio_> hi JRe :)
[12:18] <jpatrick> sealne: better just prdownloads.sourceforge.net
[12:18] <JRe> hi Tonio_ 
[12:18] <Riddell> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104341  better
[12:18] <sealne> jpatrick: except that returns an html page
[12:18] <Riddell> I think for sourceforge you have to use a mirror
[12:19] <Riddell> although don't they hae a definitive mirror?
[12:19] <jpatrick> "http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*).tar.gz"
[12:19] <sealne> jpatrick: i've tried that and that was rejected
[12:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: reading... but I don't agree on the "linux users like the dpi autodetection of X"..... I saw so many problems concerning linux and the fonts, when Windows rarely have some
[12:20] <jpatrick> damn watch file
[12:20] <mornfall> Tonio_: touche
[12:20] <jpatrick> wb Hobbsee 
[12:21] <Hobbsee> man this is *warped*!
[12:21] <sealne> debian/watch is about the only changes in all my revisions apart from the new upstream
[12:21] <Hobbsee> ty jpatrick 
[12:21] <Tonio_> I mean, the way X does sounds better technologically, but the result is important, and to me, the result is "users complaning"
[12:22] <Hobbsee> argh...definetly warped...
[12:22] <Tonio_> and from my experience, fixing the DPI is becoming my normal way to configure a linux desktop.... so many aplications have graphical bugs in menus etc when the DPI isn't set
[12:22] <jpatrick> hello apokryphos 
[12:23] <Tonio_> mornfall: you had problems with fonts on adept is I remember correctly no ?
[12:23] <apokryphos> jpatrick: hey, how's it going
[12:24] <jpatrick> apokryphos: fine :)
[12:24] <mornfall> Tonio_: only users complaining kdesu does not keep user fonts
[12:24] <mornfall> i tell them to send patches lately
[12:24] <Tonio_> mornfall: that's normal, cause kdesu doesn't use the user settings, what sudo does....
[12:25] <mornfall> Tonio_: *i* know
[12:25] <apokryphos> would be nice if it did; bridge the gap a little more between user/root
[12:25] <Tonio_> mornfall: *I* know *you* know :)
[12:25] <mornfall> Tonio_: so go tell those complainers
[12:25] <mornfall> :-)
[12:26] <Tonio_> mornfall: well, if we fix the dpi on kubuntu dapper, and set a good default value to the font size, there might not be lots of complains
[12:26] <Tonio_> cause a very few users will change the default fonts values
[12:26] <mornfall> there aren't lots
[12:26] <mornfall> they are annoying
[12:27] <Tonio_> actually, on most computers, fonts are horribly big, ad on the others, ridiculously small
[12:27] <Tonio_> and on a small range, look normal :)
[12:27] <Tonio_> that's my experience
[12:29] <Tonio_> mornfall: there is an horrible hack I tested that works nice with kdesu
[12:29] <mornfall> i just use -dpi 96
[12:29] <Tonio_> linking .kde in /root to the one on your profile, but that o course cannot be set as default ^^
[12:29] <mornfall> because otherwise the fonts are rather unpredictable
[12:30] <Tonio_> mornfall: exactly, I personally fix dpi to 100, with is quite the same
[12:30] <mornfall> Tonio_: what about exporting KDEHOME in kdesu?
[12:30] <mornfall> Tonio_: you still get the problem with root owned files in your $HOME :-)
[12:31] <Tonio_> mornfall: is root is creating files, yes ;)
[12:31] <Tonio_> well, sounds like a good idea, need toask Riddell if that might or might not cause issues ;)
[12:31] <Riddell> hmm?
[12:31] <Hobbsee_> man *that* didnt work!
[12:32] <Tonio_> Hobbsee_: ?
[12:32] <mornfall> Tonio_: it will
[12:32] <mornfall> Tonio_: it will cause lots of evil issues
[12:32] <mornfall> Tonio_: like dcop going all wonky
[12:33] <Tonio_> sounds logik indeed....
[12:33] <Hobbsee_> Tonio_: well, before my wireless connection decided to live in the land of dead, all the normal fonts were fine at around a 9, maybe 10 is better, but the fonts inside konv were huge - they looked more like a comparable 15 or 16
[12:33] <mornfall> Tonio_: you'd need to teach kde to write files as $KDEHOME owner if it's root or some other similar hack :-)
[12:34] <Tonio_> mornfall: hehe
[12:35] <Tonio_> msvista will use the same concept than sudo is using, I'm curious to know how will MS deal with that owner file issue.....
[12:36] <sealne> sudo can be annoying creating dot files owned by root in the users home
[12:36] <Tonio_> sealne: .aptitude for example ? ;)
[12:37] <sealne> never had that problem as i don't like aptitude :)
[12:37] <Tonio_> sealne: ah okay... I love aptitude when I have to install temporary stuff, cause uninstallations are way cleaner
[12:38] <mornfall> Tonio_: by filesystem API in windows knowing both user IDs? :-)
[12:38] <mornfall> there's little use of aptitude as a non-root
[12:38] <mornfall> so i don't mind having root-owned .aptitude in $HOME :)
[12:39] <Tonio_> mornfall: agree
[12:40] <sealne> i'm happy enough with apt-get :)
[12:40] <mornfall> but with .ICEauthority or .kde/...*rc, it's sort of different :-)
[12:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: how do dapper people get the amarok 1.4 beta1 packages?
[12:45] <Riddell> Hobbsee: with the archive mentioned on kubuntu.org
[12:45] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[12:46] <Hobbsee> will it get into the dapper repos in a couple of days anywya?
[12:46] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no, it's only beta software and dapper is in upstream version freeze
[12:47] <Hobbsee> yeah, i thought that might be the case - sorry, i'm really braindead tonight
[12:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> ah yes, this looks familiar...
[12:57] <cmvo> Riddell: Hm. apt-ftparchive does not seem to like a multi-arch pool tree as an input. It keeps including all files.
[12:58] <Riddell> cmvo: is that bad?  the archive works
[12:58] <Riddell> I was told to use apt-ftparchive over dpkg-scanpackages
[12:58] <Riddell> seems pretty strange though
[12:59] <cmvo> Riddell: Only using a filelist create with find I can get it to include aonly the files I want.
[01:00] <cmvo> The apt system doesn't seem to mind the multi-arch Packages files.
[01:02] <cmvo> I just stubled over it, because my scripts do not work as expected.
[01:16] <jeroenvrp> please devels, look at bug #6608
[01:16] <jeroenvrp> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6608
[01:16] <jeroenvrp> it's about the sound in dapper
[01:19] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: looks like the sound driver isn't loaded
[01:19] <jeroenvrp> mm why is that
[01:19] <jeroenvrp> how can I check that Riddell 
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> please look at my last comment in that bug btw
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> i have sound, but is very low
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> let's say 50%
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> and it shows 100%
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> alsamixer says:
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> ? Card: VIA 8235                                                                                  ?
[01:20] <jeroenvrp> ? Chip: Analog Devices AD1980 
[01:21] <Riddell> no idea, it's probably a linux issue not a KDE issue, so not my area
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> ok thanks 
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> I'm going to as in #ubuntu-devel
[01:22] <jpatrick> might be a better place to yes :)
[01:23] <Tonio_> anyone tried kbabel running with 3.5.1 ? impossible for me to open a .pot file........
[01:23] <Tonio_> kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KBabelFilter not found
[01:24] <jpatrick> can a .diff file hold differences for two files?
[01:25] <sebas> Yes.
[01:25] <allee> jpatrick: yes.  E.g. lsdiff -z kmplayer....diff.gz
[01:26] <sebas> Even for a whole filetree, in different directories.
[01:26] <jpatrick> allee: only need in for styleclock :)
[01:28] <allee> about watch. maybe it was mentioned already for sf.net there is (was?) a script to handle the redirect. e.g.:
[01:28] <allee> http://people.debian.org/~lolando/sfdlr.php?project=digikam digikam-([\d\.] .*).tar.bz2 debian svn-upgrade
[01:29] <Riddell> mornfall: mvo is going to upload a gnome-app-install with a separated app-install-data package that installs files to /usr/share/app-install-data/
[01:30] <mornfall> Riddell: is it same source-package?
[01:30] <Riddell> yes
[01:30] <Riddell> if that's OK, we can separate it if it's better to
[01:30] <mornfall> is a debian upload planned? (for gnome-app-install...)
[01:31] <mornfall> (ubuntu talks a lot about contributing to debian, hmm)
[01:32] <mornfall> either way fine, i'll just make a separate source package for debian in that case (or drop adept installer from debian package)
[01:32] <jpatrick> mornfall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
[01:33] <jpatrick> Riddell: is "/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk" a neccessary file for KDE packages?
[01:34] <Riddell> mornfall: he says he's not planned for it since that would mean getting all the .desktop files from debian
[01:34] <allee> Tonio_: kbabel po/codeine.pot  works as far as I can see
[01:35] <mornfall> Riddell: hmm, okey, leave it as it is then, i'll do what i can for debian
[01:35] <mornfall> jpatrick: theory is nice, as you can see, practice is the problem :-)
[01:35] <Tonio_> allee: I had to launch kbuildsycoca first........
[01:35] <Tonio_> allee: works now
[01:35] <allee> 'k
[01:36] <Riddell> jpatrick: it's included by /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk, so no
[01:36] <jpatrick> right, off it goes
[01:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll send you the french po file for systemsettings in a few minutes
[01:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning "System Settings", does it need to be considered the name o the application and not translated, or may it be translated to french to ?
[01:48] <Tonio_> I would prefer to keep it in english personnally, but......;;
[01:48] <Riddell> that's up to the translator :)
[01:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, so keep it in english :)
[02:02] <jpatrick> yes!
[02:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: french.po file sent by email (I don't have access to the svn)
[02:05] <Riddell> tres bien
[02:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: ;)
[02:05] <jpatrick> how do i overwrite a lintian error?
[02:05] <jpatrick> "styleclock: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libstyleclock.so"
[02:11] <Riddell> jpatrick: yes
[02:11] <Riddell> put that in a file
[02:11] <jpatrick> I did
[02:12] <jpatrick> debian/overrides/styleclock
[02:12] <jpatrick> didn't work
[02:12] <Riddell> that then needs to be instalLed into /usr/share/lintian I think it is
[02:17] <Riddell>  /usr/share/lintian/overrides/
[02:17] <Riddell> look at how katapult does it for example
[02:23] <jpatrick> I see
[02:23] <sealne> Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/555862 is what happens when i run kded from a terminal, that stuff just gets repeated over and over
[02:24] <sealne> whats avahi?
[02:25] <sealne> service discovery?
[02:27] <Riddell> it's the zeroconf stuff
[02:28] <sealne> yeah, why is kded upset about it/why is kded trying to talk to it
[02:28] <Riddell> sealne: do you have avahi-daemon installed?
[02:28] <sealne> nope
[02:28] <Riddell> try installing that
[02:29] <Riddell> and if it still fails try installing all the libavahi-* packages
[02:29] <sealne> as an aside to whether it will fix it or not it not something id particuarly want to have
[02:30] <Riddell> of course, but if we find out how to make it happy that's the first step to making it not complain in the first place
[02:31] <sealne> Riddell: yep that keeps kded quiet
[02:31] <Riddell> sealne: installing avahi-daemon?
[02:31] <sealne> yep
[02:31] <Riddell> hmm, well it should just not use avahi if avahi-daemon isn't installed
[02:32] <sealne> thanks
[02:34] <sealne> avahi-daemon needs to be running not just installed
[02:37] <ubijtsa2> hullo
[02:39] <Lathiat> kded should be able to handle not having avahi installed fine
[02:39] <Lathiat> if not its buggy
[02:39] <sealne> Riddell: strace if it helps, from when avahi-daemon wasn't running http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.log
[02:39] <Tm_T> is there any isos of dapper to powerpc
[02:40] <Lathiat> avahi also has the facility to connect and go ahead if and when avahi does start/get installed
[02:40] <sealne> on cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[02:40] <Tm_T> sealne: dapper?
[02:40] <sealne> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/
[02:41] <Tm_T> aah, ty
[02:41] <Riddell> sealne: 13:41:22 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[02:41] <Tm_T> hum, how about live :)
[02:42] <sealne> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[02:42] <jpatrick> moring robotgeek 
[02:42] <robotgeek> morning jpatrick 
[02:43] <Tm_T> sealne: sorry, I go away in shame ;(
[02:43] <jjesse> is flight 4 out yet?
[02:43] <sealne> Riddell: http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.txt parinoid colleagues :)
[02:43] <sealne> no .logs :)
[02:47] <Tm_T> :)
[03:06] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmm, if I hold Kubuntu presentation in local LUG meeting, you could ship some Kubuntu dapper discs?
[03:06] <Tm_T> 20-50
[03:06] <Tm_T> yay!
[03:07] <Tm_T> jpatrick: what's that?
[03:07] <jpatrick> haha
[03:07] <jpatrick> dot.kde.org
[03:07] <Tm_T> hmm, I knew I forgot something
[03:07] <Riddell> Tm_T: sure
[03:08] <Riddell> jpatrick: what about it?
[03:08] <jpatrick> 4th topic
[03:08] <Riddell> ignore me
[03:08] <Riddell> Tm_T: e-mail me your postal address, jriddell@ubuntu.com
[03:08] <jpatrick> :)
[03:09] <Tm_T> Riddell: aye sir!
[03:09] <sebas> There are Dapper CDs available?
[03:09] <Riddell> daily CDs are (almost) always available
[03:09] <Riddell> install reports always welcome too
[03:11] <sebas> Ah, ok.
[03:11] <Tm_T> :)
[03:26] <Riddell> _Sime: how much does displayconfig overlap with the existing kcontrol display module?
[03:26] <jpatrick> Riddell: kcontrol-kdmtheme hasn't turned up yet
[03:27] <Riddell> jpatrick: I know, but with soyuz I'm not even sure who to ask to find out where it's gone
[03:27] <Riddell> probably still in NEW, in which case elmo
[03:31] <jpatrick> it appears at launchpad...
[03:33] <paulproteus> Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency.
[03:33] <paulproteus> (In case you missed it earlier.)
[03:33] <paulproteus> Riddell: BTW, they compile and run just great on Debian Sid. (-:
[03:34] <Riddell> paulproteus: oh yes, thanks
[03:34] <sebas> Riddell: It does replace all functionality that's in the current module, and offers more.
[03:36] <Riddell> sebas: so I should not show the current display one then?
[03:36] <Riddell> and I think the guidance one should be in hardware
[03:37] <Riddell> paulproteus: fixed in SVN :)
[03:37] <sebas> Riddell: Exactly, that was the idea.
[03:37] <sebas> Riddell: Dunno how it got there, actually :o
[03:37] <paulproteus> Riddell: Totally rocking!
[03:38] <Riddell> sebas, _Sime: I needed http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_01_qt_paths.diff for pykdeextensions
[03:39] <sebas> Riddell: Email it to Sime, I'm not really working on pykdeextensions, apart from the occasional patch.
[03:40] <sebas> So I've got no access to the "master copy" so to say.
[03:40] <sebas> Riddell: When are you arriving in Brussels?
[03:40] <Riddell> sebas: London Waterloo Int 18:11 - Bruxelles Midi 21:37
[03:40] <sebas> I'll probably be there on wednesday already, got a meeting thursday until about noon.
[03:40] <sebas> That's friday?
[03:40] <Riddell> yes
[03:40] <sebas> Ah, so we need someone to stay at JB and welcome all the KDE dudes.
[03:41] <Riddell> I need to work out how to get from gare midi to youth hostel
[03:41] <Riddell> then youth hostel to grande place
[03:41] <sebas> And I need to sort out some stuff for FOSDEM payment.
[03:41] <sebas> YH to GP is a no brainer, just ask someone in your best french :-)
[03:41] <Riddell> every time I try to use french in Brussels they reply in English
[03:42] <Riddell> but remember what happened last year?  YH to GP wasn't easy then
[03:42] <sebas> Riddell: Surprise, with a kilt :-)
[03:43] <sebas> Pah, NL -> Brussels was the worst part :D
[03:43] <sebas> Remember Waterloo?
[03:43] <sebas> That's *totally* out of the direction.
[03:44] <sebas> I'm still looking for something to do in Brussels from Thursday until friday.
[03:45] <Riddell> visit the parliament
[03:45] <Riddell> tours at 15:00 I think
[03:46] <Riddell> that's about the most interesting thing to do in Brussels
[03:46] <sebas> Hm, no no-patents demo then? :P
[03:47] <jpatrick> Riddell: styleclock checked 5 times, removed clean theme, created patch to remove clean theme's build rules, and uploaded!
[03:47] <Riddell> jpatrick: you uploaded?
[03:47] <Riddell> to ubuntu or revu?
[03:47] <jpatrick> yes
[03:47] <jpatrick> ubuntu
[03:48] <Riddell> was it approved by 2 MOTU?
[03:48] <jpatrick> what?
[03:48] <Riddell> you're ment to get 2 approvals on revu before uploading
[03:49] <jpatrick> oh dear :|
[03:49] <Riddell> well, lets just hope nobody notices :)
[03:49] <jpatrick> lintian was happy
[03:50] <jpatrick> wow was fast: https://launchpad.net/people/jpatrick/+packages
[03:51] <Riddell> ooh, that's clever
[04:06] <Tm_T> Riddell: ok, current daily-live in minimac, seems to work ok, but complains "battery running out"
[04:06] <Riddell> Tm_T: excellent.  does sound work?
[04:07] <Tm_T> nope, "mixer cannot be found"
[04:08] <Riddell> bah
[04:12] <Tm_T> 1min 50s starting OO.o2 Writer
[04:12] <Riddell> on a live CD that doesn't surprise me
[04:12] <Tm_T> 1.33G minimac with 512M ram
[04:12] <Tm_T> aye
[04:12] <Tm_T> KOffice could be much faster, but MS format filters suck
[04:13] <Tm_T> but aye, sound is only big minus
[04:17] <jpatrick> Is there a kapp for editing manpages?
[04:23] <Riddell> not really, maybe quanta for docbook
[04:23] <jjesse> just use kate for docbook :)
[04:25] <Riddell> exactly
[04:43] <Riddell> anyone see any problems with getting rid of ark_part?
[04:44] <Riddell> it seems like a fairly pointless menu item and not much else
[04:55] <Riddell> mornfall: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006368.html
[04:55] <Riddell>    * split the desktop data out into it's own "app-install-data" package
[04:55] <Riddell>      that is shared between gnome-app-install and apdept-installer
[04:56] <Riddell> we decided to do split sources so that they can be ported to debian separately when anyone has time
[05:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: uploaded new kmplayer to _REVU_
[05:01] <Riddell> :)
[05:09] <Riddell> jpatrick: and it doesn't need to build-dep on any mplayer stuff?
[05:09] <jpatrick> no
[05:10] <Riddell> but it can use mplayer?
[05:10] <jpatrick> It can
[05:10] <Riddell> clever
[05:10] <jpatrick> but that would mean putting it in multiverse
[05:11] <Riddell> ah, so it can't use mplayer as it stands?
[05:12] <jpatrick> no
[05:12] <jpatrick> Xine and Gstreamer instead
[05:13] <Riddell> groovy
[05:28] <Riddell> jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1805
[05:30] <jpatrick> I'm on it
[05:30] <jpatrick> allee: told me to call it kmplayerplugin
[05:31] <jpatrick> :/
[05:31] <Riddell> any rationale?  it's not a big issue, just seems nicer to follow all the rest and have a dash
[05:32] <jpatrick> because kmplayer-plugin sounds like a plugin for kmplayer
[05:33] <allee> Riddell: kmplayer-plugin made ... well jpatrick explained it
[05:34] <allee> Riddell: it's not a plugin for kmplayer.  It's a plugin for khtml.   But you are the native english speaker...
[05:35] <Riddell> hmm, true
[05:35] <crimsun> why have mplayer in the name at all then?
[05:35] <allee> mhmm, maybe kmplayer-khtmlplugins is even better????
[05:35] <Riddell> hmm, maybe not :)
[05:35] <allee> *hides* :)
[05:35] <crimsun> if mplayer isn't even required, since it can use xine/gst, I don't think mplayer even makes sense
[05:35] <allee> crimsun: it's the name of the application
[05:35] <Riddell> crimsun: the website does say as much
[05:36] <allee> crimsun: it can use gstreamer, mplayer and xine
[05:36] <crimsun> personally it makes more sense to put that much in the description
[05:37] <mornfall> Riddell: good, thanks
[05:37] <allee> It's maybe too technical.  While not perfect, a long technical description is better than a short one that says nothing :)
[05:38] <mornfall> so app-install-data is now NEW?
[05:38] <Riddell> mornfall: yes
[05:39] <jpatrick> how about konq-plugin-kmplayer?
[05:39] <crimsun> konq-kmplayer-plugins sounds fine
[05:40] <Riddell> whatever, it was the not playing anything that bothered me most :)
[05:40] <jpatrick> crimsun: without the last s?
[05:41] <crimsun> jpatrick: source or binary? The binaries according to apt-cache have the 's'
[05:41] <jpatrick> binary
[05:42] <crimsun> consistently inconsistent, then?
[05:42] <crimsun> e.g., kdenetwork-kfile-plugins - torrent metainfo plugin for KDE
[05:43] <allee> crimsun: binary pkg contains only one plugin
[05:45] <crimsun> take a look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=kdenetwork-kfile-plugins&version=dapper&arch=i386
[05:45] <crimsun> if you're going to name it konq-kmplayer-plugin, then change kdenetwork-kfile-plugins to kdenetwork-kfile-plugin, too
[05:46] <crimsun> that's what I meant by "consistently inconsistent"
[05:46] <allee> lol
[05:46] <allee> kdenetwork-kfile-plugins is just open for further kfile plugins :)
[05:47] <crimsun> well, I'm not going to drag it out further
[05:47] <crimsun> konq-kmplayer-plugin{s} sounds good
[05:53] <allee> jpatrick: ah, pkgs were renamed, so don't forget to add conflicts and replaces in control
[05:54] <jpatrick> allee: so close :) Few seconds later and I would of have uploaded to REVU
[05:57] <jpatrick> right reuploaded (revu)
[06:01] <allee> jpatrick: did you work on Depends ('cause it didn't work for Riddell at all).  Here kmplayer works with xine and gst.  So it's no problem with upstream code.
[06:02] <jpatrick> nope, it's odd....
[06:03] <Riddell> hmm, it has no depends
[06:04] <Riddell> ah yes, none in debian/control either
[06:04] <Riddell> that's quite important
[06:04] <jpatrick> ${shlibs:Depends}
[06:04] <Riddell> ah, -base has them
[06:04] <jpatrick> :)
[06:05] <Riddell> what's the point of the -base package?
[06:05] <jpatrick> You can have the plugins without having to install the stand-alone app
[06:05] <allee> jpatrick: fwiw shlibs:Depends catches only depends on library (and lintian complains about them).  it will not catch depend for external programs
[06:08] <Riddell> what external programs are needed?
[06:08] <allee> Riddell: it was a general remark.  I never looked that 'deep' into kmplayer
[06:09] <Riddell> right
[06:14] <Riddell> freeflying: how was Shanghai?
[06:16] <freeflying> Riddell: hi Introduced kubuntu to them
[06:16] <freeflying> Riddell: mark let us make more Chinese support
[06:17] <freeflying> Riddell: and ther will be a release party in china for dapper ,will u attend
[06:20] <Riddell> I can't attend release parties, I have to actually make the release
[06:24] <jpatrick> ha
[06:28] <jpatrick> sealne: yep it's in
[06:41] <freeflying> Riddell: I mean will you come to china for that party
[06:42] <jpatrick> he has to release then fly half-way around the world? ;)
[06:43] <Riddell> that would be very difficult, since I'd have to release kubuntu at the same time
[06:43] <freeflying> jpatrick: the party will be held at 22/4
[06:43] <freeflying> Riddell: it will be at 22/4
[07:02] <jpatrick> Riddell: is there a list somewhere that shows the NEW queue?
[07:05] <jpatrick> debian has one
[07:06] <Riddell> I don't think so
[07:08] <mornfall> so, i need UI advice
[07:08] <mornfall> should i make adept_installer horizontal-split or vertical-split or add a clickable (hyperlink-style?) "More..." to short description and extend in-place
[07:11] <Riddell> extend inplace sounds like it would resize the window, which might be unexpected
[07:12] <Riddell> horizontal-split or vertical-split depends on how wide the lists need to be, if they're just names with icons then they don't need to be too wide and horizontal would be best
[07:12] <mornfall> in-place would work as in adept manager
[07:13] <mornfall> but triggered by clicking a link in short description
[07:17] <Riddell> ah I see, well depend on how short of screen space it is then
[07:19] <mornfall> let's see
[07:19] <mornfall> i need fairly more width for the UI than gnome-app-install because of the category/list split
[07:19] <mornfall> also, gnome-app-install uses pretty tiny font for short description
[07:20] <Riddell> seems better to have the full description just there if it's possible
[07:20] <mornfall> you still need to click the item
[07:20] <Riddell> yep
[07:20] <mornfall> some short descriptions take 700 pixels of width here
[07:20] <mornfall> (for complete window)
[07:23] <Riddell> can they have word wrap?
[07:24] <mornfall> word-wrap will make the height uneven
[07:24] <mornfall> but it could be done
[07:24] <mornfall> (or at least i think it could)
[07:24] <mornfall> let's see what happens
[07:28] <mornfall> oo wee, it segfaults
[07:29] <mornfall> hmm, infinite recursion => i suck :-)
[07:45] <mornfall> hooray
[07:48] <mornfall> Riddell: http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-wordwrap.png -- i guess that's ok? (i have no idea who comes up with those descriptions, but maybe docteam could have a look)
[07:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you around?
[07:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: hi
[07:51] <apachelogger> hola :-)
[07:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: there's still no kblogger on dapper-changes?!
[07:51] <mornfall> --> reddwarf
[07:51] <Riddell> mornfall: looking nice
[07:52] <Riddell> mornfall: I'd say there should be room at the side or bottom there for an extended description
[07:55] <jpatrick> apachelogger: in NEW queue
[07:55] <apachelogger> jpatrick: where can I see the new queue?
[07:55] <jpatrick> apachelogger: we don't know :/
[07:55] <apachelogger> :|
[07:55] <apachelogger> quite long in already
[07:56] <jpatrick> apachelogger: i've waited a week for one of my packages
[07:56] <apachelogger> ah, ok :-)
[07:58] <jpatrick> lemme find some proof that it's alive....
[07:59] <jpatrick> apachelogger: near the buttom: https://launchpad.net/people/jr/+packages
[08:00] <jpatrick> 5th one from "Uploaded Packages"
[08:00] <incinerator> hi, i've got a question about laptop special keys, how is that handled for kde in kubuntu? I'd like to make some of my special keys work....
[08:00] <apachelogger> jpatrick: thx
[08:04] <incinerator> basically, I've got this bug report: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/27318
[08:04] <incinerator> i'd simply like to know which package to file it against....
[08:07] <seth|lappy> xkb handles all that methinks
[08:07] <incinerator> well, i know there are special packages to deal with that, plus hotkey-setup, but that seems to be gnome-specific....
[08:21] <incinerator> i filed it against hotkey-setup for now....
[08:23] <Riddell> incinerator: if they're standard keys then it's a problem with kmilo
[08:27] <incinerator> hi jonathan, what do you mean with "standard keys"?
[08:28] <incinerator> it's partly about fn keys and some extra keys the laptop has....
[08:28] <Riddell> there's standard keycodes for volume up/down etc
[08:29] <incinerator> ah ok
[08:29] <Riddell> which kmilo is ment to handle
[08:29] <incinerator> k, thx a lot
[08:29] <Riddell> codeine works great, kmplayer doesn't want to work at all
[08:32] <Riddell> allee: codeine approved, let me know if you want me to upload
[08:34] <allee> Riddell: oh, great.  Wait a bit I found 2 typos afair I reupload soon and ping you
[08:36] <jpatrick> Riddell: as an MOTU - do I need to two MOTUs to approve on revu?
[08:37] <luka74> incinerator: did you try Keyboard layouts?
[08:37] <incinerator> what do you mean?
[08:37] <luka74> incinerator: I have yesterday submitted a bug to freedesktop for new keyboard layout
[08:37] <freeflying> how to use projector under dapper on ppc
[08:37] <luka74> for my notebook (HP nw8240)
[08:38] <incinerator> oh i did not know that's the way to go....
[08:38] <luka74> Keyboard layout maps scancodes to keysyms (like XF86VolumeMute) that are then properly handled by kmilo
[08:38] <freeflying> Riddell: will u give some advice
[08:39] <luka74> See bug 27542 for more links
[08:39] <incinerator> seems a wee bit of an overkill to me, creating a separate keyboard layout for every conceivable computer....
[08:39] <incinerator> k, will do
[08:40] <luka74> incinerator: I agree, but this is how some other notebooks are handled
[08:40] <luka74> See also http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXKeyboardConfig
[08:45] <Riddell> allee: I believe so
[08:45] <Riddell> freeflying: sure
[08:49] <allee> Riddell: hmm, s/writen/written/ and I'm not Mercatante Bohnet.  Fixed in svn but is it worth a upload+reviews?
[08:49] <Riddell> allee: naw, I can just fix it before uploading
[08:50] <allee> Riddell: I'll send you the diff, so I don't have to merge ;)
[08:50] <freeflying> Riddell: how to use project under dapper ppc
[08:50] <Riddell> freeflying: project?
[08:51] <allee> Riddell: sent
[08:51] <freeflying> Riddell: s/project/projector
[08:54] <Riddell> freeflying: you would need to speak to someone else with an iBook, but I believe getting an external display on iBooks with linux is difficult
[08:55] <Riddell> freeflying: amu has one, he might know, amu@kubuntu.de
[08:56] <jpatrick> there has got to be a easier way to keep KubuntuSuggestedPackages tidier
[08:56] <freeflying> Riddell: thx, That's maybe wyh can't I use projector with my ibook today
[08:57] <robotgeek> freeflying: ibook display is difficult
[08:58] <robotgeek> especially if you are short on time
[08:58] <jpatrick> JRe: ping
[09:01] <freeflying> robotgeek: yeah , when I try to use my ibook with projector, it didn't work 
[09:01] <robotgeek> freeflying: i'll try to get it working, someone claimed that it worked on the ibook
[09:08] <jpatrick> where?
[09:08] <robotgeek> https://launchpad.net/people/tonioy2k2000
[09:09] <jpatrick> yeah......
[09:10] <robotgeek> yay!
[09:11] <robotgeek> freeflying: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Apple_iBookG4_12in_1%2e33GHz is this your laptop model?
[09:12] <robotgeek> freeflying: you might find this useful http://tv.debian.net/articles/ibook-cloned-monitor/
[09:33] <incinerator> ridell, I've been doing some reading about these special keys etc. what about lineak, does kmilo interact with it?
[09:33] <Riddell> never heard of it (so probably not)
[09:34] <incinerator> because a kde config tool for has been uploaded to dapper....
[09:34] <incinerator> http://lineak.sourceforge.net/
[09:38] <Riddell> incinerator: klineakconfig doesn't do anything when I run it
[09:39] <luka74> incinerator: according to /usr/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/inet xkb keyboard layouts are based on lineak
[09:39] <luka74> (list of keyboards look very similar)
[09:41] <jpatrick> ah wicked, Ubuntu Installer informs you of packages
[09:42] <incinerator> oh ok
[09:43] <luka74> it seems that symbols/inet is superset or lineak list
[09:50] <jpatrick> Riddell: heard of the bug in amaroK 1.4rc1 packs?
[09:50] <Riddell> jpatrick: nope
[09:50] <jpatrick> Amarok can't launch lyrics scripts because ruby is not installed: /usr/bin/env ruby: No such file or directory
[09:51] <jpatrick> kubuntu-devel mailing list
[09:51] <Riddell> hmm, so amarok should depend on ruby?
[09:51] <jpatrick> yes
[09:52] <Riddell> I'm not sure if we even have ruby on the CD by default, that could cause problems when it's in the distro (space wise mostly)
[10:05] <_Sime> is it just me or does Adept in dapper like to crash a lot....
[10:05] <Riddell> _Sime: what version?
[10:05] <jjesse> it used to crash a lot for me, but since i apt-get updated from flight3 to current version it is more stable
[10:06] <mornfall> current version is still fairly crashy
[10:06] <mornfall> at least compared to what i have now :)
[10:07] <mornfall> it's just that making releases is tiresome and time-consuming and boring and all :)
[10:07] <mornfall> so there'll be a beta on sunday
[10:07] <mornfall> but not before :)
[10:07] <mornfall> (probably will slip to monday if i code a lot over weekend)
[10:08] <_Sime> Riddell: I think I've got the current version. But I'm now in the process of upgrading/updating everything I can.
[10:09] <mornfall> _Sime: well, what does the about box say?
[10:10] <_Sime> 1.89 viking alpha 2
[10:11] <_Sime> the adept update notifier is neato. (although the red warning triangle is a bit scary)
[10:11] <mornfall> well, there's a known crash after update/apply
[10:11] <jjesse> maybe it is supposed to be scary to show that you need something updated :)
[10:11] <mornfall> on some systems it'll crash right away
[10:11] <jjesse> mornfall: i closed that one bug because it no longer affected my system
[10:12] <mornfall> jjesse: there's still the crash right away bug, but it's less widespread now :)
[10:27] <_Sime> Riddell: BTW, displayconfig-hwprobe.py is not setup to execute at boottime (there are no links in /etc/rc3.d/).
[10:28] <Riddell> _Sime: link should be in /etc/rcS.d no?
[10:28] <Riddell> default runlevel is 2 though
[10:28] <Tm_T> ugh, one kind of LUG meeting :)
[10:28] <Riddell> Tm_T: hmm?
[10:29] <Tm_T> Riddell: new hardware in test
[10:29] <Tm_T> mac mini (as you maybe noticed) and also Nokia 770
[10:29] <Tm_T> if I manage to buy my own :)
[10:31] <Riddell> jjesse: what's the problem with the quickguide stylesheet?
[10:31] <jjesse> well the one on doc.ubuntu.com for the quickguide doesn't look the same as the one on doc.ubuntu.com for release ntoes
[10:31] <jjesse> notes
[10:32] <_Sime> Riddell: oh.
[10:32] <_Sime> Riddell: and indeed it is. :-)
[10:32] <Riddell> jjesse: hmm, neither of them work
[10:33] <jjesse> Riddell: hmmm 
[10:34] <Riddell> jjesse: it needs mdke to put the kde bits in /stable on the server
[10:35] <Riddell> _Sime: quite some newbie who can write an X configuration tool :)
[10:35] <Tm_T> Riddell: aye, I promised to keep Kubuntu/KDE presentation during this spring, I'll mail address and all so you can ship some discs :)
[10:35] <jjesse> Riddell: but they are all set for dapper?
[10:36] <Riddell> jjesse: I'm building a new snapshot now and they all work locally
[10:36] <jjesse> Riddell: awesome, then i'll make sure mdke gets those solved at his end
[10:36] <Riddell> jjesse: should I include the switching guide?
[10:37] <jjesse> Riddell: i don't know if it validates yet, i also need to finish it
[10:47] <Riddell> sebas: around?
[10:54] <allee> luka74: if there no bug the config of lineak and xkb-config should be identical for same keyboard?
[10:55] <luka74> I supose...
[10:55] <allee> luka74, incinerator: what is your goal? Maybe worth to add to Kubuntu meeting topic tomorrow
[10:55] <allee> +?
[10:55] <incinerator> oh, i'm just a guest....
[10:56] <incinerator> probably won't be in today....
[10:56] <luka74> I would only like to have my notebook supported out of box - and keyboard setting is one thing that bothers me
[10:56] <allee> incinerator: we're not a closed group ;) join #ubuntu-meeting tomorrow 20 UTC (see channel title)
[10:56] <incinerator> okies
[10:56] <Riddell> jjesse: desktopguide needs KDEifying badly
[10:57] <luka74> I will try to join tommorow
[10:57] <incinerator> well, i would have something....
[10:57] <robotgeek> Riddell: yes :)
[10:57] <Riddell> robotgeek: is that on your TODO?
[10:57] <robotgeek> Riddell: i'm the "main" guy on the Kubuntu Desktop Guide
[10:57] <incinerator> laptoptesting encourages people to record unrecognised keycodes etc. and file a bug, i did so but the bug was never touched by anybody....
[10:57] <luka74> fact is that there is lot's of different stuff duing similar stuff (xkb, lineak, kmilo...) - and they do not play that nicely together
[10:57] <Tm_T> http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac.png && http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac2.png
[10:57] <Tm_T> ;)
[10:57] <Riddell> I'm not talking about content just now, but about changing from xincludes to old fashioned stuff that meinproc can understand
[10:58] <robotgeek> Riddell: that means getting rid of the menus.xml stuff?
[10:58] <allee> luka74: xkb is the right thing (tm) ;)  lineak and kmilo and other try to work on keycode without having a right keysym assiged
[10:58] <incinerator> it seems there's no person for kubuntu who feels responsible for dealing with these laptoptesting issues.....
[10:59] <Riddell> robotgeek: I don't see that
[10:59] <robotgeek> Riddell: sorry, i'm still weak on docbook. 
[10:59] <incinerator> perhaps one could be appointed (not me!)
[10:59] <allee> incinerator: take back 'not me!' and we can start to vote ;)
[10:59] <robotgeek> Riddell: i'm moving this weekend, i'll get to work next week
[10:59] <luka74> allee: I think so too (but I am no expert) - this is why I submitted bug to freedesktop.org and I hope to get some feedback from them
[10:59] <Riddell> incinerator: yes, we don't have the manpower is the issue
[11:00] <incinerator> okies, well, if someone could show me how to update hotkey-setup and kmilo and whatever, i could surely do it, it doesn't seem to be the most diffucilt task to me, but I've got absolutely no exp maintaining packages etc. I would have to learn that....
[11:01] <allee> incinerator: where are the kubuntu specific hardware problems listed?  You mean someone needs check every Laptoptesting/... subpage?
[11:01] <Riddell> robotgeek: have you asked for access to the SVN archive?
[11:01] <incinerator> no, off course not
[11:01] <robotgeek> Riddell: i don't think there is enough stuff in there to cause serious problems yet
[11:01] <luka74> I have some interest with getting good laptop support (at least HP) as I am pushing other notebook users toward Kubuntu ;-)
[11:01] <Riddell> robotgeek: in where?
[11:01] <luka74> (in my compay)
[11:01] <robotgeek> Riddell: no, i am not yet a member. I'm applying this meeting
[11:01] <incinerator> allee: people are supposed to file BRs for these reports....
[11:02] <robotgeek> Riddell: in the Kubuntu Desktop Guide. I am sure I can fix all that is needed in a day, so I am currently brushing up my docbook skills
[11:02] <incinerator> thing is, laptoptesting docs at the wiki don't tell how to mark a BR as laptoptesting specific, that should be sorted out, as well.
[11:03] <luka74> allee: I made special testing page for my Kubuntu tests - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HPNW8240/Kubuntu
[11:03] <robotgeek> Riddell: right now, the stuff validates with xsltproc, i'll switch it over to meinproc after reading KDE documentation guidelines more thoroughly
[11:03] <allee> incinerator: create a Laptop Testing team and assing those bugs to them?
[11:03] <Riddell> robotgeek: get jsgotango to help you maybe, but it just needs changed from xinclues to old style includes
[11:04] <incinerator> allee: yup
[11:04] <robotgeek> Riddell: will do, thanks
[11:04] <allee>  incinerator: did you ask on #lauchpad?
[11:04] <allee> luka74: checking ...
[11:04] <incinerator> no not yet, I just did some triage on bugs I reported....
[11:05] <incinerator> such a team probably exists already anyways, but it's not kubuntu-specific
[11:05] <allee> incinerator: nevertheless it would be nice to have laptoptsting bug further categorized as  base, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu ...
[11:05] <incinerator> yes, but that can wait....
[11:06] <incinerator> if we get these keycode things it can happen that it gets fixed in gnome but not in kde it seems....
[11:06] <incinerator> and that should be dealt with for every BR filed regarding keycodes etc. anyways....
[11:06] <allee> incinerator: I'm just pondering if tagging isn't a better concept than my suggested 'Team' 
[11:06] <luka74> incinerator: exactly - this is why I created new report for my notebook and open new bug requests
[11:07] <incinerator> possibly, but I don't know how "tagging" works :-(
[11:07] <incinerator> and you've got to get the bug reporters to do it or someone to do the bug triage
[11:07] <allee> incinerator: I've no idea if tags exissts in launchpad ;)
[11:08] <incinerator> thing is, once we know what keycodes are supposed to mean what, it's easy to fix even if the bug reporter is not using kde....
[11:08] <incinerator> and that data should be in the bug report if the laptoptesting procedure is adhered to...
[11:09] <incinerator> brb, cigarette...
[11:12] <incinerator> back
[11:12] <incinerator> allee: anyways, I'll try to get to the meeting tomorrow and we'll see if I can be any help.....
[11:13] <allee> luka74: argl!!!!! You point me to a page that sets DPI via -dpi?
[11:14] <luka74> allee: do you have better solution (I hate it too)?
[11:14] <luka74> autodetection is just plain wrong and results in ugly fonts (larger than dialogs/windows)
[11:15] <allee> luka74: a) grep -i dimension /var/log/Xorg.0.log # that a rules and check
[11:15] <allee> luka74: b) if not correct  Set 'DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm' in Monitor section of xorg.conf
[11:16] <allee> luka74: c) if a is correct, change the font size in kcontrol center
[11:16] <luka74> no dimension in my Xorg.0.log - just DPI
[11:17] <luka74> Sorry - it is in autodetected mode:
[11:17] <luka74> (--) fglrx(0): Display dimensions: (330, 210) mm
[11:17] <luka74> (
[11:18] <allee> luka74: and is this correct?
[11:19] <luka74> about right 
[11:19] <allee> luka74: okay then c) ;)
[11:20] <allee> luka74: you want smaller fonts.  then change the fontsize and don't ly about the dimemsion of your screen via -dpi
[11:20] <luka74> but that is painful: it should look nice out-of-box
[11:20] <luka74> not ugly with text getting out of initial login screen (and splash)
[11:21] <allee> luka74: that a bug in login screen!  :( :(   I see it everyday here too
[11:22] <luka74> I will reboot now and will try playing around a bit with font sizes
[11:23] <allee> luka74: no need to restart.  Logout and Alt-ctrl-backspace is enough to active a new xorg.conf setting
[11:23] <allee> s/restart/reboot/
[11:24] <luka74> I know, but I also got new acpi-support and would not like some side effects on next hibernate...
[11:24] <allee> luka74: ah, even better is to use k-menu -> new session
[11:24] <allee> ah, ok
[11:24] <mornfall> allee: the problem with dpi setting is that the renderer is far from optimal and it produces weird results at certain pixel sizes
[11:25] <mornfall> allee: if you set the dpi to something reasonable, most font sizes look OK
[11:25] <mornfall> like going from real to 96 made my fonts fairly more readable
[11:25] <mornfall> at roughly same pixel size
[11:26] <luka74> mornfall: that is exactly my impression - 100 (or 120) looks much better than autodetected 147
[11:26] <mornfall> it's virtually impossible to tune the renderer for *all* DPI settings
[11:26] <mornfall> considering lack of real hinting in our fonts
[11:27] <allee> mornfall: decreasing dpi mean using less pixel for the glyhcs.  YOu can achieve the same when you set in kcontrol a smaller fontsize
[11:27] <mornfall> and eg. vera has embedded bitmaps for some pixel sizes -- which are useless if all your dpi makes all font sizes different from those
[11:27] <allee> mornfall: AND this work without logout/login  be root hack config files and what else
[11:27] <mornfall> allee: that would require kcontrol to allow setting pixel sizes... which it doesn't
[11:28] <mornfall> allee: it uses points and then you are lucky or not to hit the right pixel size at which font renders good :)
[11:28] <allee> instead of reduzing dpi by 20% reduce pts used for font by 20%.  
[11:29] <mornfall> allee: unfortunately, that gives 8.8 point size font, and kcontrol does not seem to support that :)
[11:29] <allee> mornfall: in kcontrol you see immediately show the font will looks like!  That's user friendly
[11:29] <mornfall> it's user friendly, but that does not make the font look any better
[11:30] <mornfall> giving at least 0.1pt scale would help a lot :)
[11:30] <mornfall> but i suspect there are more problems with that
[11:30] <mornfall> till then, i'll just set my dpi to 96 thanks :)
[11:31] <allee> mornfall: well the only 'uglyness' I've seen is that at ~ 120, 2 px are used as width.  so from 100 -> 120 dpi  regular looks bit more like bold.  but after sometime one gets used it it ...
[11:32] <allee> going back 120 -> 100 ohne has the impression that one has to concentrate to see the thin lines
[11:32] <mornfall> i like thin fonts, they look sexy :-)
[11:32] <mornfall> unfortunately fontconfig is such a bitch that i cannot have different hinting for different fonts
[11:33] <mornfall> and konsole font needs hintfull to be useful at this size
[11:35] <allee> mornfall: I thought hints are necessary for small pixel sizes?  Today monitor tend to have more and more pixel/points
[11:39] <mornfall> i have an oldish 17" monitor :-)
[11:45] <allee> mornfall: and modern fonts ttf don't include an oldish 75dpi pixel font?  Pity :(
[11:49] <luka74> allee: I am now on autodetected mode and fonts are just huge
[11:50] <luka74> I can set most of them in System settings (down by 2pt)
[11:50] <luka74> but I will still need to play with lots of manual changes as some apps do not care
[11:51] <allee> luka74: are the dimensin you find in Xorg.0.conf correct?  If yes then you just don't like the default :)
[11:51] <luka74> Konversation, date/time in kicker, KHTML in Akregator...
[11:51] <mornfall> allee: if it was 75dpi bitmap, it is useless on a 102dpi display 
[11:52] <mornfall> allee: (there are either 75 or 96 or 100 bitmap fonts that i know of... and neither of them can be used on a 102dpi display)
[11:52] <mornfall> s/neither/none/
[11:53] <luka74> allee: dimension is OK, but I cannot accept default as it is now ;-)
[11:53] <allee> mornfall: is the software really that non-fuzzy that a special case for 100 is not use with 102?
[11:53] <luka74> I agree with mornfall that setting dpi to 120 or 100 is just simplier and better
[11:53] <mornfall> allee: it may be used at 102, but definitely not at 112
[11:53] <mornfall> allee: because that's just too far
[11:54] <mornfall> if it's 102 it's probably "wrong but better looking"
[11:54] <mornfall> +for
[11:58] <allee> luka74: if you find an app, where you didn't set a font size and it does not rescale (at least after restart) it's IMHO a bug/wish that's worth reporting
[11:59] <luka74> allee: problem is that I have to modify many apps (cannot just globaly say all fonts -20% size)
[12:00] <luka74> And that is a lot of work and not out-of-box solution (which is why I love Kubuntu)
[12:00] <allee> mornfall: better looking, fonts too big too small ....  would be nice to have screenshots of such cases
[12:02] <allee> luka74: the global -20% for standard and app-spefic fonts size is a feature that does not exists in KDE (I assume it because I have never seen it)