[12:15] Riddell: http://klik.atekon.de/wiki/index.php/Dapper [12:15] Riddell: thsi is the result of a meeting on #klik [12:16] Riddell: I invited the guys to come on thursday === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Sime [n=konversa@ip54579d1b.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRe_ [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tinin [n=tinin@21.Red-83-41-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tinin [n=tinin@21.Red-83-41-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:00] Riddell: ping === bobesponja [i=pat@bas75-1-81-57-4-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === KaiL [n=KaiL@p548F78B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === robotgeek [n=robotgee@ppp-70-252-99-60.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:19] Riddell: ping [06:21] can anyone tell me what packages to install instead of gstreamer (xine multiverse packages, but which ones) [06:27] amarok-xine i think it is [06:27] not sure of anything else [06:28] okay, i'll defer writing that part till later === theball [n=shane@perseus.mpcu.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === paulproteus [n=paulprot@pool-151-196-244-173.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:31] Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency. === theball [n=shane@perseus.mpcu.com] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === theball [n=shane@perseus.mpcu.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === theball [n=shane@perseus.mpcu.com] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === theball [n=shane@perseus.mpcu.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:57] anyone open for a few questions? === Hobbsee reminds herself of the dev meeting in a day and a half [06:57] theball: try asking the questions, then wait to see if you get a reply - not sure if anyone's here [06:57] Riddell: ping [06:57] i noticed it was quiet [06:57] hi Hobbsee [06:58] yeah, it's often quiet - seems that people sleep [06:58] i wonder if anyone has had luck getting gl support in dapper, if so how? === Hobbsee sighs at the bug in mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail [07:18] think i'll go fix that... [07:25] hey how should i go fix a bug in mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail? https://launchpad.net/products/enigmail shows it's not filed in malone - do i just submit a debdiff there, and file a bug, or what? [07:39] morning Sarah === Hobbsee jumps out of her skin [07:41] no one calls me Sarah online lol! [07:41] Hobbsee: we all no your name now [07:42] true [07:42] feels weird though :P [07:42] s/no/know [07:44] lol [07:44] morning Mez [07:44] morning :D [07:44] :D [07:45] I was under the impression that most of us knew some time ago... === robotgeek knew :) [07:46] yeah, probably === robotgeek thinks Hobbsee has bad memory, lol [07:47] hehe - well i *have* had a rather eventful day today... [07:47] /whosi Hobbsee [07:47] Uh, oops. Tee-hee. [07:48] what about it lol? [07:48] It doesnt list her name :D [07:49] :D it's been changed not to! [08:06] at least this builds quickly... === Mez crosses fingers he'scaught the last B-D for iFolder [08:09] hehe [08:09] crud [08:09] it'd be very nice to see it in ubuntu [08:11] darn, cant get the lastest version of enigmail anyway - site's down! [08:11] lol [08:12] stupid thing - i want to use the package again! [08:18] heh, and now the entire site died. [08:18] stupid site :P === Hobbsee gives up and lets someone else fix it === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:03] Hobbsee: where do i report KDE 3.5.1 bugs? [09:03] malone, assign it to kdebugs or something [09:04] my feeds add to akregator stopped working [09:05] robotgeek: assign it to kubuntu team === ubijtsa2 is a little concerned about what dist-upgrade to dapper is attempting to remove from the system [09:05] i think everything gets picked up from there [09:05] ubijtsa2: uh oh, what's it trying to remove? and did you have kubuntu-desktop metapackage installed before upgrading? [09:05] Hobbsee: let me do a pastebin [09:05] yep [09:06] Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8694 [09:07] that's only the bit's it'll remove though. [09:07] I can add all the rest if you like [09:08] ubijtsa2: no, tha'ts fine - that stuff all looks ok - it's either unneeded or replaced with something else [09:08] Hobbsee: heh, it was not a bug after all. [09:08] so once done, I can re-install amarok and it'll just work yeah? [09:08] robotgeek: what was it? [09:08] ubijtsa2: amarok was changed to using the xine engine by default, instead of amarok [09:09] ah [09:09] ahem, not amarok, gstreamer [09:09] =) [09:09] Hobbsee: silly you [09:09] hehe yeah, silly me [09:09] must have gone crazy again [09:09] Hobbsee: in Konqueror, when feeds are detected, it has a nice thing at the bottom. which you can click and add feeds to akregator. that clickable area is not very small [09:09] so if I install the xine engine, amarok would be upgraded instead of removed.. right? [09:09] Hobbsee: I have that effect to people... [09:09] hehe [09:10] ubijtsa2: you'll probably find it being installed by default, with upgrading amarok [09:10] Tm_T: where's your patch for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide :) [09:10] robotgeek: ah ok [09:10] Hobbsee: see it? [09:10] robotgeek: can't do it too soon, sorry [09:10] Hobbsee: okidoki.. keep fingers/toes crossed... :) [09:10] Tm_T: heh, okay [09:10] :) [09:11] robotgeek: have to do my best to get school going on, fucking mental problems [09:14] right, download running.. [09:18] also, we are still missing leader in ubuntu-artwork [09:18] I have no idea what I should do in that front [09:18] === cain_ [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hunger just used adept (or better: its updater) for the first time. [09:34] It is a nice little app. === hunger does not understand adept itself though. [09:40] hunger: what's up with it? :) [09:41] mornfall: I do not understand how to install stuff with it. [09:41] I find adept has usability problems. compared to Synaptic, Adept is hard work [09:41] I got a list of packages, filtered on a tag (whatever that is). [09:41] Then I clicked on that > in front of an deb. [09:42] aaaaaaaaaaaa === mornfall recalls that text on toolbar buttons is *still* not default [09:42] THen I clicked on the button showing up there (not the details one, the one that randomly keeps changing descriptions). [09:42] you randomly change descriptions *bah* [09:42] Then I went to the toolbar, doing "Apply Changes". === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:42] so [09:43] Which imediently got me an error. [09:43] interesting :-) [09:43] And a red "x" icon in front of the tag I selected earlier. [09:43] that icon needs changing [09:43] it's just to remove the tag [09:44] mornfall: Oh, right, it is there from right when I dropped the tag there. [09:44] mornfall: no icon necessary: You can just drag the tag back... [09:44] hunger: sure, but is that intuitive enough? :) [09:45] mornfall: I only noticed it after I got an error, so I assumed that is OK. [09:45] (i am quite proud of the drag tags back to remove them thing -- shame i did not invent it) [09:45] mornfall: Dragging something back you had to drag in to set seems more intuitive then clicking on something. [09:46] mornfall: You might consider adding a right context menu "I want this/I do not want this" to the tags:-) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:47] By the way: How does the update notification thing work? [09:47] Does it apt-get update at regular intervals? [09:48] a cronjob does that, at least it should [09:48] it just checks the cache status [09:48] mornfall: How often? [09:48] the cronjob? daily [09:48] mornfall: I have to change that to at least hourly for dapper;-) [09:49] most mirrors only update daily anyway? [09:49] mornfall: The mirrors yes, the archive does definitly update more often. [09:50] *shrug* i don't see the need to make it configurable anyway :-) [09:50] you will want to twiddle with crontab or something in that case [09:50] mornfall: You can't get it below 1d anyway. [09:50] oh you can, if you want :-) [09:51] mornfall: the apt-script does not do that. [09:51] it's just a script... scripts can be changed [09:51] mornfall: Oh, sure you can, but not with the standard script. [09:53] mornfall: If I start changing stuff because of such tiny annoyances, then I can start my own distribution:-) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:54] hmm, time to write commit logs :| === hunger loves the adept update notifier. [09:55] good, good :-) [09:56] Maybe I'll love adept as well, once I figure out how to use it;-) [09:56] hunger: what error does it give when you try to apply changes? [09:56] (that's actually not normal, hasn't happened here for ages) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:57] mornfall: Something about a failed download. [09:57] hunger: hmm, and adept updater works? [09:57] mornfall: It did not do anything before giving the error (no text in the area that lists the downloads). [09:58] mornfall: Yes, like a charm [09:58] mornfall: adept did download something later (not what I wanted installed, but it did download something). [09:58] hunger: could you run it from konsole and paste the output it gives somewhere? (rafb.net/paste eg) [09:59] mornfall: I can try, but it does download now. [09:59] mornfall: Maybe I had a broken package or something in my selection. === hunger finds the window switching so often when selecting something in the menu bar very confusing. [10:01] How about opening new windows or tabs instead? That way it would be easier to get back to the original view. [10:02] Why is "Manage Repositories" in two different menus? [10:02] Where are the inactive filters? [10:03] right click the filter area [10:03] but there aren't many available that are not on by default :) [10:03] manage repositories, well, i haven't made up my mind about that yet [10:03] adding tabs would horribly confuse the interface [10:03] so would opening new windows === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:04] you won't ever do more than one of those things at once anyway [10:04] (you can't, even if it was in a separate tab or window) [10:04] mornfall: Isen't it better to confuse the interface then to confuse the user;-) [10:04] why would user be confused :-) [10:04] mornfall: Yes, but the way you do it you introduce modes which is bad. [10:05] no [10:05] modes are good [10:05] modeless apps suck [10:05] mornfall: VI is good UI wise? [10:05] it's definitely better than most editors, yes :-) [10:05] from usability POV [10:05] (not from learnability, but that's a different thing) === hunger recommends "The humane interface" from raskin. [10:06] modes make it possible to do an interface for the task good [10:06] i have no idea who raskin is === hunger fully disagrees. [10:06] it does not change anything about the fact modes are good :) [10:07] mornfall: One of the guys behind the original mac gui. Wrote a book, too. [10:07] well, you don't want your filemanager and webbrowser to be a nonmodal mess [10:07] :-) [10:07] (one example for all) [10:08] i don't see how opening half dozen windows instead of using one will give you anything but clutter [10:08] mornfall: I consider myself a advanced user, I know apt pretty well, using it on the commandline each day. I should not have problems with a package management gui. Yet adept confuses me. [10:08] (each for one mode) [10:08] mornfall: It gives you a well understood way back. [10:09] mornfall: Took me a while to get back to where I started from "Show Last Downloads". === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:10] mornfall: My mom would have just close the app and reopened it to get back. [10:11] hunger: your mom is very far from target audience [10:11] mornfall: What is your target audience? [10:12] hunger: for adept manager? non-newbies [10:12] hunger: your mom does not give a damn about package dependencies or file lists, hmm? [10:12] mornfall: non-newbies == people having used linux for a couple of years? [10:12] hunger: or the fact that updates need to be fetched explicitly [10:12] That's my mom;-) [10:13] no, users that have some understanding of the packaging system [10:13] mornfall: Updates are fetched automatically each day. That is enough. [10:13] not on dialup [10:13] etc [10:14] adept manager is *not* a dumb-down interface [10:14] there's updater that should guide you fairly well through updates [10:14] mornfall: Neither is synaptic. [10:14] and there'll be adept installer as soon as Riddell or mvo or someone makes the data package [10:14] mornfall: Still she knows how to use that to install stuff. [10:15] hunger: without any training? [10:15] mornfall: I showed her once or twice. [10:15] what stuff, also? [10:15] how does she find what she needs in synaptic? [10:15] mornfall: Simple things... she types in "chess" and basically installs everything that shows up:-) [10:16] not too different [10:16] enter text to Search: [10:16] right click packages -> install (or click their names to unroll and click install) [10:17] hit apply changes [10:17] quit [10:17] i'd say that's fairly easy to install [10:17] why would she go and look at "last download"? === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:17] it's there for people that need to instpect download errors [10:17] inspect* [10:17] does your mom do that? [10:18] mornfall: Because she is nosy and likes to poke into dark corners to see what is there. [10:18] i don't think the tenet of user interface is to be random-click resistant [10:18] if she gets stuck, she can always restart the app [10:18] as you said [10:18] mornfall: No. But it should offer an easy way back. [10:18] right, close, start [10:18] that's easy :) [10:19] mornfall: Yes, you just loose your selection that way. [10:19] i'd say it's mostly hypotethical problem [10:19] Why is the opposit of "Install Package" "keep Package"? [10:19] because that's the way apt currently works [10:20] i will redo it at some point [10:20] I do not want it installed... so why should I want to keep it? [10:20] you keep it in current state [10:20] you know what? you should send patches :-) [10:21] hunger: also, most of the components are in libept, you can fairly easily make a modeless interface [10:21] mornfall: No time. I'm just spending my breakfast break trying to figure out what that strange new icon in my tasktray is:-) [10:21] you have long breakfast breaks :) [10:22] hehe [10:22] and i have little time [10:22] need to go to work *today* [10:22] mornfall: Actually I should have been back to work for a while, but got stuck talking to you:-) [10:22] mornfall: Well, thanks for explaining things to me. See you around later. [10:49] codeine: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1791 === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua@222.50.182.120] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Tonio__ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:16] hello everyone [11:17] hi Tonio_ [11:18] you do the default settings, dont you? [11:18] or otherwise my brain is totally crazy, and has swapped people [11:18] I'm doing on it, which doesn't mean everything will be kept :) [11:18] because there was some stuff that i'd intended to tell you, an dhave now totally forgotten [11:18] that is to be discussed on the kubuntu meeting 02/16 [11:19] of course ;) [11:19] if you have any ideal, plz tell me :) [11:19] yeah i'll try [11:25] the meeting is tomorow, so I'll write a little documentation including the diverse modifications to be discussed [11:25] *nods* [11:25] if you have new ones, possibly asking during he meeting is the best thing to do [11:25] then I'll have a few days to add all voted modifications, and get the package uploaded [11:27] Hobbsee: pong [11:28] Riddell: ah yes *tries to organise brain* [11:29] there's a bug in avahi-daemon - it's fixed in dapper, were they going to backport that fix into breezy? [11:29] there's a debdiff that ljl wrote for breezy to fix it, if you like [11:29] there are lots of duplicate bug reports for it, so it might just be worht fixing [11:30] where is the debdiff? [11:30] robotgeek_zzz: pong [11:30] robotgeek_zzz: libxine-extracodecs [11:30] Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/30669 [11:33] Riddell: Hi! I want to locally mirror the kde 3.51 package for breezy and noticed that each Packages file contains entries for all three architectures. [11:34] Riddell: Is this by design or a side effect of apt-ftparchive? [11:35] cmvo: most likely its down to some incorrect usage of mine for apt-ftparchive [11:36] cmvo: you can see how I make the file with the ARCHIVE script [11:37] Hobbsee: I don't see a debdiff there [11:37] so i'm lost? *goes to look* [11:38] indeed i am - try https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/31458 [11:43] Riddell: Ok, I'll adapt my scripts. [11:44] cmvo: if you know how to fix it that would be great :) [11:45] Riddell: The archive or my scripts? ;-) [11:45] the archive [11:46] Riddell: I haven't used apt-ftparchive in a while, but I'll take a look at the config. [11:47] cmvo: what do you use? [11:48] Riddell: I mirror the Packages file too. [11:55] Tonio_: oh, can we replace kate with kwrite as the default kde text editor? people keep saying that kate crashes [11:56] I've never had kate crash [11:56] Hobbsee: sever also [11:56] lucky, Riddell :P [11:56] and to what I know, write is kate, but with simplified menus [11:56] Riddell: am I wrong on that point ? [11:56] Tonio_: sever? [11:56] s/sever/never :) [11:56] and kwrite being just kate with a different layout will crash just as often [11:56] hmm...weird [11:57] on the other hand the profiles stuff in kate in kde 3.5 is just weird [11:57] there is something that drives me nuts recently with kate. the sessions management [11:57] i'm not sure that i tested it with 3.5.1, but i thought i saw some errors for it [11:58] Tonio_: exactly [11:59] Riddell: I may include little modifications in kubuntu-default-settings on that point, cause really I can't stand that sessions management default settings... should be discussed on kubuntu meeting of course ;) [11:59] Tonio_: sure, Anders did some blogging about it a while ago [11:59] okay, that'll go in KDS so ;) === Hobbsee is hesitant to say anything else on kate without further testing, but usually using kate with root gives problems, and after rebooting a machine, if it was in the previous session [11:59] are there any reasons atm for kded in dapper to keep crashing every second? [12:00] sealne: nope [12:00] sealne: yes [12:00] sealne: it's broken :) [12:00] sealne: get a backtrace? [12:00] oh yeah, and kdesu kwrite seems to open faster than kdesu kate :D [12:01] its very hard to do anything with crash handler appearing every second :) [12:01] hehe! [12:02] yeah, i had that problem a couple of times too - it does get in the way! [12:02] www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedcrash.txt [12:03] just when i'd found a graphics card that dapper would talk to :-/ [12:05] Hobbsee: the fact that you are in previous session is the crappy default settingwe're talking about [12:05] ah, i see - so i'm not a moron after all? [12:05] when you use kdesu, it doesn't use your account profile like sudo does [12:05] sealne: that'll be avahi [12:05] Hobbsee: that's the reason I want to change that in the KDS package [12:05] ah ok :) === jpatrick [n=patrick@33.Red-81-44-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:05] that'll apply even to the root account [12:06] yes, which is why the fonts are all screwed up? [12:06] Hobbsee: are you with dapper ? [12:06] Tonio_: indeed [12:06] Hobbsee: ho the font size with kdesu ? [12:06] well, the kdesu fonts are different than the normal fonts [12:06] yes that's normally crappy, and is to be fixed with KDS package too [12:07] XDS = ? [12:07] KDS* [12:07] um...i didnt like the font, so i switched - what's the default size? [12:07] that's all I'm working on actually, make the default profile nice, cause that'll apply to the root account also [12:07] i'm using sans serif 14 and it all looks fine [12:07] kubuntu-default-settings =KDS [12:07] sealne: as a quick fix rm /usr/share/services/kded/dnssdwatcher.desktop should work [12:07] 14? that's huge [12:07] easy to write [12:08] Hobbsee: don't know what will be the default size.... dpi will certainly be fixed to 100 some way, and the default size will be 8 or 9 probably... === jpatrick has it set to 9 [12:09] jpatrick: you need to check 9 with dpi set to 100 to be sure ;) [12:09] 9 can look like 8 depending your DPI [12:09] ok [12:09] Riddell: still crashing after removing that and loggining in again [12:10] on many computers, 9 is like 8 or 8 like 9.... that's problem with xorg + fontconfig, and also the reason we think about fixing that to 100 [12:10] size 9? sheesh! [12:10] it's barely readable on my screen! [12:10] right... [12:10] dpi + font to 8 is about the same size that on Windows or OSX by default.... it is a size people are used to use, and that may not hurt them if they think about migrating to kubuntu... [12:10] 12 looks ok though [12:11] ah ok [12:11] sealne: need someone to look at dcfldd? [12:11] Hobbsee: try fixing the DPI to 100, then use 9 and 8 and you'll see :) [12:11] it may just be my screen and dpi - this is a laptop run at 1024x768 [12:11] jpatrick: yes please [12:11] how do i fix my dpi to 100? [12:11] it is not possible to judge the font size if DPI is not fixed, cause the renderring will different from a computer to another === Hobbsee hasnt seen that option [12:12] Hobbsee: Please set DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm in xorg.conf's Monitor section [12:12] Hobbsee: in kdmrc, on serverargslocal, add "-dpi 100" at the end of the command [12:12] Tonio_: Noooo :) [12:12] that's the easier way to just test [12:12] lol! [12:12] allee: to TEST ;) === Hobbsee only wants to test, not to kill off her nice display size.. [12:13] Hobbsee: so don't listen to my mentor ;) listen to me [12:13] sealne: that is one funky debian/watch :/ [12:13] hehe [12:14] Hobbsee: if you use DisplaySize it will preserve your (future) nice setup independendly [12:14] jpatrick: i hate debian/watch enough already [12:15] allee: that does mean i need a tape measure, which i dont have lol [12:15] allee: note that I agree with you concerning the global setting to set the dpi directly within xorg.conf [12:16] Hobbsee: poor guy [12:16] sealne: put "http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*)\.tar\.gz" instead [12:16] allee: got informations on the way gnome sets the fonts ? === Hobbsee looks around for the male hobbsee... === Hobbsee finds no one [12:16] I just learned that they were not using fontconfig, which kde does [12:16] jpatrick: i have had every possible combination in debian/watch [12:17] Tonio_: it's in gnome-settings-daemon, and it just sets Xft not the whole X display === allee send an excuse to hobbsee [12:17] lunch time. bbl [12:17] jpatrick: i was told not to use a mirror [12:17] hehe [12:17] Riddell: can that be reproduced on kubuntu ? [12:17] just saw that [12:17] i need to restart x, i take it? [12:17] mm amarok is much more stable now, its been playing a stream for 24 hours and hasnt crashed :) === JRe [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:18] Tonio_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103507 not all gnomes like using a hardcoded dpi [12:18] hi JRe :) [12:18] sealne: better just prdownloads.sourceforge.net [12:18] hi Tonio_ [12:18] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104341 better [12:18] jpatrick: except that returns an html page [12:18] I think for sourceforge you have to use a mirror [12:19] although don't they hae a definitive mirror? [12:19] "http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dcfldd/dcfldd-(.*).tar.gz" [12:19] jpatrick: i've tried that and that was rejected [12:20] Riddell: reading... but I don't agree on the "linux users like the dpi autodetection of X"..... I saw so many problems concerning linux and the fonts, when Windows rarely have some [12:20] damn watch file [12:20] Tonio_: touche === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:20] wb Hobbsee [12:21] man this is *warped*! [12:21] debian/watch is about the only changes in all my revisions apart from the new upstream [12:21] ty jpatrick [12:21] I mean, the way X does sounds better technologically, but the result is important, and to me, the result is "users complaning" [12:22] argh...definetly warped... === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:22] and from my experience, fixing the DPI is becoming my normal way to configure a linux desktop.... so many aplications have graphical bugs in menus etc when the DPI isn't set [12:22] hello apokryphos [12:23] mornfall: you had problems with fonts on adept is I remember correctly no ? [12:23] jpatrick: hey, how's it going [12:24] apokryphos: fine :) [12:24] Tonio_: only users complaining kdesu does not keep user fonts [12:24] i tell them to send patches lately [12:24] mornfall: that's normal, cause kdesu doesn't use the user settings, what sudo does.... [12:25] Tonio_: *i* know [12:25] would be nice if it did; bridge the gap a little more between user/root [12:25] mornfall: *I* know *you* know :) [12:25] Tonio_: so go tell those complainers [12:25] :-) [12:26] mornfall: well, if we fix the dpi on kubuntu dapper, and set a good default value to the font size, there might not be lots of complains [12:26] cause a very few users will change the default fonts values [12:26] there aren't lots [12:26] they are annoying [12:27] actually, on most computers, fonts are horribly big, ad on the others, ridiculously small [12:27] and on a small range, look normal :) [12:27] that's my experience [12:29] mornfall: there is an horrible hack I tested that works nice with kdesu [12:29] i just use -dpi 96 [12:29] linking .kde in /root to the one on your profile, but that o course cannot be set as default ^^ [12:29] because otherwise the fonts are rather unpredictable [12:30] mornfall: exactly, I personally fix dpi to 100, with is quite the same [12:30] Tonio_: what about exporting KDEHOME in kdesu? [12:30] Tonio_: you still get the problem with root owned files in your $HOME :-) [12:31] mornfall: is root is creating files, yes ;) === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:31] well, sounds like a good idea, need toask Riddell if that might or might not cause issues ;) [12:31] hmm? [12:31] man *that* didnt work! [12:32] Hobbsee_: ? [12:32] Tonio_: it will [12:32] Tonio_: it will cause lots of evil issues [12:32] Tonio_: like dcop going all wonky [12:33] sounds logik indeed.... [12:33] Tonio_: well, before my wireless connection decided to live in the land of dead, all the normal fonts were fine at around a 9, maybe 10 is better, but the fonts inside konv were huge - they looked more like a comparable 15 or 16 [12:33] Tonio_: you'd need to teach kde to write files as $KDEHOME owner if it's root or some other similar hack :-) [12:34] mornfall: hehe [12:35] msvista will use the same concept than sudo is using, I'm curious to know how will MS deal with that owner file issue..... [12:36] sudo can be annoying creating dot files owned by root in the users home [12:36] sealne: .aptitude for example ? ;) [12:37] never had that problem as i don't like aptitude :) === JRe [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:37] sealne: ah okay... I love aptitude when I have to install temporary stuff, cause uninstallations are way cleaner [12:38] Tonio_: by filesystem API in windows knowing both user IDs? :-) [12:38] there's little use of aptitude as a non-root [12:38] so i don't mind having root-owned .aptitude in $HOME :) [12:39] mornfall: agree [12:40] i'm happy enough with apt-get :) [12:40] but with .ICEauthority or .kde/...*rc, it's sort of different :-) === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:45] Riddell: how do dapper people get the amarok 1.4 beta1 packages? [12:45] Hobbsee: with the archive mentioned on kubuntu.org [12:45] gotcha [12:46] will it get into the dapper repos in a couple of days anywya? [12:46] Hobbsee: no, it's only beta software and dapper is in upstream version freeze [12:47] yeah, i thought that might be the case - sorry, i'm really braindead tonight [12:48] :) === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:51] ah yes, this looks familiar... [12:57] Riddell: Hm. apt-ftparchive does not seem to like a multi-arch pool tree as an input. It keeps including all files. [12:58] cmvo: is that bad? the archive works [12:58] I was told to use apt-ftparchive over dpkg-scanpackages [12:58] seems pretty strange though [12:59] Riddell: Only using a filelist create with find I can get it to include aonly the files I want. [01:00] The apt system doesn't seem to mind the multi-arch Packages files. [01:02] I just stubled over it, because my scripts do not work as expected. === jeroenvrp [n=jeroenvr@k-uptown.xs4all.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:16] please devels, look at bug #6608 [01:16] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6608 [01:16] it's about the sound in dapper [01:19] jeroenvrp: looks like the sound driver isn't loaded [01:19] mm why is that [01:19] how can I check that Riddell [01:20] please look at my last comment in that bug btw [01:20] i have sound, but is very low [01:20] let's say 50% [01:20] and it shows 100% [01:20] alsamixer says: [01:20] ? Card: VIA 8235 ? [01:20] ? Chip: Analog Devices AD1980 [01:21] no idea, it's probably a linux issue not a KDE issue, so not my area [01:22] ok thanks [01:22] I'm going to as in #ubuntu-devel [01:22] might be a better place to yes :) [01:23] anyone tried kbabel running with 3.5.1 ? impossible for me to open a .pot file........ [01:23] kio (KMimeType): WARNING: KServiceType::offers : servicetype KBabelFilter not found [01:24] can a .diff file hold differences for two files? [01:25] Yes. [01:25] jpatrick: yes. E.g. lsdiff -z kmplayer....diff.gz [01:26] Even for a whole filetree, in different directories. [01:26] allee: only need in for styleclock :) [01:28] about watch. maybe it was mentioned already for sf.net there is (was?) a script to handle the redirect. e.g.: [01:28] http://people.debian.org/~lolando/sfdlr.php?project=digikam digikam-([\d\.] .*).tar.bz2 debian svn-upgrade [01:29] mornfall: mvo is going to upload a gnome-app-install with a separated app-install-data package that installs files to /usr/share/app-install-data/ [01:30] Riddell: is it same source-package? [01:30] yes [01:30] if that's OK, we can separate it if it's better to [01:30] is a debian upload planned? (for gnome-app-install...) [01:31] (ubuntu talks a lot about contributing to debian, hmm) === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:32] either way fine, i'll just make a separate source package for debian in that case (or drop adept installer from debian package) [01:32] mornfall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian [01:33] Riddell: is "/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk" a neccessary file for KDE packages? [01:34] mornfall: he says he's not planned for it since that would mean getting all the .desktop files from debian [01:34] Tonio_: kbabel po/codeine.pot works as far as I can see [01:35] Riddell: hmm, okey, leave it as it is then, i'll do what i can for debian [01:35] jpatrick: theory is nice, as you can see, practice is the problem :-) [01:35] allee: I had to launch kbuildsycoca first........ [01:35] allee: works now [01:35] 'k [01:36] jpatrick: it's included by /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk, so no [01:36] right, off it goes [01:38] Riddell: I'll send you the french po file for systemsettings in a few minutes === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:48] Riddell: concerning "System Settings", does it need to be considered the name o the application and not translated, or may it be translated to french to ? [01:48] I would prefer to keep it in english personnally, but......;; [01:48] that's up to the translator :) [01:49] Riddell: okay, so keep it in english :) === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:02] yes! [02:04] Riddell: french.po file sent by email (I don't have access to the svn) [02:05] tres bien [02:05] Riddell: ;) [02:05] how do i overwrite a lintian error? [02:05] "styleclock: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libstyleclock.so" [02:11] jpatrick: yes [02:11] put that in a file [02:11] I did [02:12] debian/overrides/styleclock [02:12] didn't work [02:12] that then needs to be instalLed into /usr/share/lintian I think it is [02:17] /usr/share/lintian/overrides/ [02:17] look at how katapult does it for example [02:23] I see [02:23] Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/555862 is what happens when i run kded from a terminal, that stuff just gets repeated over and over [02:24] whats avahi? [02:25] service discovery? [02:27] it's the zeroconf stuff [02:28] yeah, why is kded upset about it/why is kded trying to talk to it [02:28] sealne: do you have avahi-daemon installed? [02:28] nope [02:28] try installing that [02:29] and if it still fails try installing all the libavahi-* packages [02:29] as an aside to whether it will fix it or not it not something id particuarly want to have [02:30] of course, but if we find out how to make it happy that's the first step to making it not complain in the first place [02:31] Riddell: yep that keeps kded quiet [02:31] sealne: installing avahi-daemon? [02:31] yep [02:31] hmm, well it should just not use avahi if avahi-daemon isn't installed === Riddell adds to his TODO of things to investigate [02:32] thanks [02:34] avahi-daemon needs to be running not just installed === ubijtsa2 [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:37] hullo [02:39] kded should be able to handle not having avahi installed fine [02:39] if not its buggy [02:39] Riddell: strace if it helps, from when avahi-daemon wasn't running http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.log [02:39] is there any isos of dapper to powerpc [02:40] avahi also has the facility to connect and go ahead if and when avahi does start/get installed [02:40] on cdimage.ubuntu.com? [02:40] sealne: dapper? [02:40] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/ [02:41] aah, ty [02:41] sealne: 13:41:22 ERROR 403: Forbidden. [02:41] hum, how about live :) [02:42] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ [02:42] moring robotgeek [02:42] morning jpatrick [02:43] sealne: sorry, I go away in shame ;( [02:43] is flight 4 out yet? [02:43] Riddell: http://www2.duffus.org/tmp/kdedstrace.txt parinoid colleagues :) [02:43] no .logs :) [02:47] :) [03:06] Riddell: hmm, if I hold Kubuntu presentation in local LUG meeting, you could ship some Kubuntu dapper discs? [03:06] 20-50 === jpatrick is taking 80 CDs to aKademy-es [03:06] yay! [03:07] jpatrick: what's that? [03:07] haha [03:07] dot.kde.org [03:07] hmm, I knew I forgot something [03:07] Tm_T: sure [03:08] jpatrick: what about it? [03:08] 4th topic [03:08] ignore me [03:08] Tm_T: e-mail me your postal address, jriddell@ubuntu.com [03:08] :) [03:09] Riddell: aye sir! [03:09] There are Dapper CDs available? [03:09] daily CDs are (almost) always available [03:09] install reports always welcome too [03:11] Ah, ok. [03:11] :) [03:26] _Sime: how much does displayconfig overlap with the existing kcontrol display module? [03:26] Riddell: kcontrol-kdmtheme hasn't turned up yet [03:27] jpatrick: I know, but with soyuz I'm not even sure who to ask to find out where it's gone [03:27] probably still in NEW, in which case elmo [03:31] it appears at launchpad... [03:33] Riddell: Bug with your Amarok 1.4 packages - they don't list libakode-dev as a build-dependency. [03:33] (In case you missed it earlier.) [03:33] Riddell: BTW, they compile and run just great on Debian Sid. (-: [03:34] paulproteus: oh yes, thanks [03:34] Riddell: It does replace all functionality that's in the current module, and offers more. [03:36] sebas: so I should not show the current display one then? [03:36] and I think the guidance one should be in hardware [03:37] paulproteus: fixed in SVN :) [03:37] Riddell: Exactly, that was the idea. [03:37] Riddell: Dunno how it got there, actually :o [03:37] Riddell: Totally rocking! [03:38] sebas, _Sime: I needed http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu_01_qt_paths.diff for pykdeextensions [03:39] Riddell: Email it to Sime, I'm not really working on pykdeextensions, apart from the occasional patch. [03:40] So I've got no access to the "master copy" so to say. [03:40] Riddell: When are you arriving in Brussels? [03:40] sebas: London Waterloo Int 18:11 - Bruxelles Midi 21:37 [03:40] I'll probably be there on wednesday already, got a meeting thursday until about noon. [03:40] That's friday? [03:40] yes === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D2512.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:40] Ah, so we need someone to stay at JB and welcome all the KDE dudes. [03:41] I need to work out how to get from gare midi to youth hostel [03:41] then youth hostel to grande place [03:41] And I need to sort out some stuff for FOSDEM payment. [03:41] YH to GP is a no brainer, just ask someone in your best french :-) [03:41] every time I try to use french in Brussels they reply in English [03:42] but remember what happened last year? YH to GP wasn't easy then === Riddell not trusting Dutch people for directions any more [03:42] Riddell: Surprise, with a kilt :-) [03:43] Pah, NL -> Brussels was the worst part :D [03:43] Remember Waterloo? [03:43] That's *totally* out of the direction. [03:44] I'm still looking for something to do in Brussels from Thursday until friday. [03:45] visit the parliament [03:45] tours at 15:00 I think [03:46] that's about the most interesting thing to do in Brussels [03:46] Hm, no no-patents demo then? :P === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:47] Riddell: styleclock checked 5 times, removed clean theme, created patch to remove clean theme's build rules, and uploaded! [03:47] jpatrick: you uploaded? [03:47] to ubuntu or revu? [03:47] yes [03:47] ubuntu [03:48] was it approved by 2 MOTU? [03:48] what? [03:48] you're ment to get 2 approvals on revu before uploading [03:49] oh dear :| [03:49] well, lets just hope nobody notices :) [03:49] lintian was happy [03:50] wow was fast: https://launchpad.net/people/jpatrick/+packages [03:51] ooh, that's clever [04:06] Riddell: ok, current daily-live in minimac, seems to work ok, but complains "battery running out" [04:06] Tm_T: excellent. does sound work? [04:07] nope, "mixer cannot be found" [04:08] bah [04:12] 1min 50s starting OO.o2 Writer [04:12] on a live CD that doesn't surprise me [04:12] 1.33G minimac with 512M ram [04:12] aye [04:12] KOffice could be much faster, but MS format filters suck [04:13] but aye, sound is only big minus [04:17] Is there a kapp for editing manpages? [04:23] not really, maybe quanta for docbook [04:23] just use kate for docbook :) [04:25] exactly [04:43] anyone see any problems with getting rid of ark_part? [04:44] it seems like a fairly pointless menu item and not much else === ubijtsa [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:55] mornfall: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006368.html [04:55] * split the desktop data out into it's own "app-install-data" package [04:55] that is shared between gnome-app-install and apdept-installer [04:56] we decided to do split sources so that they can be ported to debian separately when anyone has time [05:01] Riddell: uploaded new kmplayer to _REVU_ [05:01] :) [05:09] jpatrick: and it doesn't need to build-dep on any mplayer stuff? [05:09] no [05:10] but it can use mplayer? [05:10] It can [05:10] clever [05:10] but that would mean putting it in multiverse [05:11] ah, so it can't use mplayer as it stands? [05:12] no [05:12] Xine and Gstreamer instead [05:13] groovy === allee [n=ach@allee.exgal.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === nlindblad [n=nlindbla@user179.217-10-120.netatonce.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [05:28] jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1805 [05:30] I'm on it [05:30] allee: told me to call it kmplayerplugin [05:31] :/ [05:31] any rationale? it's not a big issue, just seems nicer to follow all the rest and have a dash [05:32] because kmplayer-plugin sounds like a plugin for kmplayer [05:33] Riddell: kmplayer-plugin made ... well jpatrick explained it [05:34] Riddell: it's not a plugin for kmplayer. It's a plugin for khtml. But you are the native english speaker... [05:35] hmm, true [05:35] why have mplayer in the name at all then? [05:35] mhmm, maybe kmplayer-khtmlplugins is even better???? [05:35] hmm, maybe not :) [05:35] *hides* :) [05:35] if mplayer isn't even required, since it can use xine/gst, I don't think mplayer even makes sense [05:35] crimsun: it's the name of the application [05:35] crimsun: the website does say as much [05:36] crimsun: it can use gstreamer, mplayer and xine === allee _assumes_ at the start only mplayer was supported [05:36] personally it makes more sense to put that much in the description [05:37] Riddell: good, thanks [05:37] It's maybe too technical. While not perfect, a long technical description is better than a short one that says nothing :) [05:38] so app-install-data is now NEW? [05:38] mornfall: yes [05:39] how about konq-plugin-kmplayer? [05:39] konq-kmplayer-plugins sounds fine [05:40] whatever, it was the not playing anything that bothered me most :) [05:40] crimsun: without the last s? [05:41] jpatrick: source or binary? The binaries according to apt-cache have the 's' [05:41] binary [05:42] consistently inconsistent, then? [05:42] e.g., kdenetwork-kfile-plugins - torrent metainfo plugin for KDE [05:43] crimsun: binary pkg contains only one plugin === jpatrick 's point === allee likes konq-kmplayer-plugin [05:45] take a look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=kdenetwork-kfile-plugins&version=dapper&arch=i386 [05:45] if you're going to name it konq-kmplayer-plugin, then change kdenetwork-kfile-plugins to kdenetwork-kfile-plugin, too [05:46] that's what I meant by "consistently inconsistent" [05:46] lol [05:46] kdenetwork-kfile-plugins is just open for further kfile plugins :) [05:47] well, I'm not going to drag it out further [05:47] konq-kmplayer-plugin{s} sounds good [05:53] jpatrick: ah, pkgs were renamed, so don't forget to add conflicts and replaces in control [05:54] allee: so close :) Few seconds later and I would of have uploaded to REVU === allee works hard on timings === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [05:57] right reuploaded (revu) [06:01] jpatrick: did you work on Depends ('cause it didn't work for Riddell at all). Here kmplayer works with xine and gst. So it's no problem with upstream code. [06:02] nope, it's odd.... [06:03] hmm, it has no depends [06:04] ah yes, none in debian/control either [06:04] that's quite important [06:04] ${shlibs:Depends} [06:04] ah, -base has them [06:04] :) [06:05] what's the point of the -base package? [06:05] You can have the plugins without having to install the stand-alone app [06:05] jpatrick: fwiw shlibs:Depends catches only depends on library (and lintian complains about them). it will not catch depend for external programs === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:08] what external programs are needed? === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:08] Riddell: it was a general remark. I never looked that 'deep' into kmplayer [06:09] right === freeflying [n=zhengpen@60.163.187.134] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:14] freeflying: how was Shanghai? [06:16] Riddell: hi Introduced kubuntu to them [06:16] Riddell: mark let us make more Chinese support [06:17] Riddell: and ther will be a release party in china for dapper ,will u attend === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:20] I can't attend release parties, I have to actually make the release [06:24] ha [06:28] sealne: yep it's in === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] [06:41] Riddell: I mean will you come to china for that party [06:42] he has to release then fly half-way around the world? ;) [06:43] that would be very difficult, since I'd have to release kubuntu at the same time [06:43] jpatrick: the party will be held at 22/4 [06:43] Riddell: it will be at 22/4 [07:02] Riddell: is there a list somewhere that shows the NEW queue? [07:05] debian has one [07:06] I don't think so [07:08] so, i need UI advice [07:08] should i make adept_installer horizontal-split or vertical-split or add a clickable (hyperlink-style?) "More..." to short description and extend in-place [07:11] extend inplace sounds like it would resize the window, which might be unexpected [07:12] horizontal-split or vertical-split depends on how wide the lists need to be, if they're just names with icons then they don't need to be too wide and horizontal would be best [07:12] in-place would work as in adept manager [07:13] but triggered by clicking a link in short description [07:17] ah I see, well depend on how short of screen space it is then [07:19] let's see [07:19] i need fairly more width for the UI than gnome-app-install because of the category/list split [07:19] also, gnome-app-install uses pretty tiny font for short description [07:20] seems better to have the full description just there if it's possible [07:20] you still need to click the item [07:20] yep [07:20] some short descriptions take 700 pixels of width here [07:20] (for complete window) [07:23] can they have word wrap? [07:24] word-wrap will make the height uneven [07:24] but it could be done [07:24] (or at least i think it could) [07:24] let's see what happens === seth|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #kubuntu-devel [07:28] oo wee, it segfaults [07:29] hmm, infinite recursion => i suck :-) === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [07:45] hooray [07:48] Riddell: http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-wordwrap.png -- i guess that's ok? (i have no idea who comes up with those descriptions, but maybe docteam could have a look) === apachelogger [n=apachelo@N752P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #kubuntu-devel [07:51] Riddell: are you around? [07:51] apachelogger: hi [07:51] hola :-) [07:51] Riddell: there's still no kblogger on dapper-changes?! [07:51] --> reddwarf [07:51] mornfall: looking nice [07:52] mornfall: I'd say there should be room at the side or bottom there for an extended description [07:55] apachelogger: in NEW queue [07:55] jpatrick: where can I see the new queue? [07:55] apachelogger: we don't know :/ [07:55] :| [07:55] quite long in already [07:56] apachelogger: i've waited a week for one of my packages [07:56] ah, ok :-) [07:58] lemme find some proof that it's alive.... === incinerator [n=incinera@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel [07:59] apachelogger: near the buttom: https://launchpad.net/people/jr/+packages [08:00] 5th one from "Uploaded Packages" [08:00] hi, i've got a question about laptop special keys, how is that handled for kde in kubuntu? I'd like to make some of my special keys work.... [08:00] jpatrick: thx [08:04] basically, I've got this bug report: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/27318 [08:04] i'd simply like to know which package to file it against.... [08:07] xkb handles all that methinks [08:07] well, i know there are special packages to deal with that, plus hotkey-setup, but that seems to be gnome-specific.... [08:21] i filed it against hotkey-setup for now.... [08:23] incinerator: if they're standard keys then it's a problem with kmilo [08:27] hi jonathan, what do you mean with "standard keys"? [08:28] it's partly about fn keys and some extra keys the laptop has.... [08:28] there's standard keycodes for volume up/down etc [08:29] ah ok [08:29] which kmilo is ment to handle [08:29] k, thx a lot [08:29] codeine works great, kmplayer doesn't want to work at all [08:32] allee: codeine approved, let me know if you want me to upload [08:34] Riddell: oh, great. Wait a bit I found 2 typos afair I reupload soon and ping you [08:36] Riddell: as an MOTU - do I need to two MOTUs to approve on revu? [08:37] incinerator: did you try Keyboard layouts? [08:37] what do you mean? [08:37] incinerator: I have yesterday submitted a bug to freedesktop for new keyboard layout [08:37] how to use projector under dapper on ppc [08:37] for my notebook (HP nw8240) [08:38] oh i did not know that's the way to go.... [08:38] Keyboard layout maps scancodes to keysyms (like XF86VolumeMute) that are then properly handled by kmilo [08:38] Riddell: will u give some advice [08:39] See bug 27542 for more links [08:39] seems a wee bit of an overkill to me, creating a separate keyboard layout for every conceivable computer.... [08:39] k, will do [08:40] incinerator: I agree, but this is how some other notebooks are handled [08:40] See also http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXKeyboardConfig [08:45] allee: I believe so [08:45] freeflying: sure [08:49] Riddell: hmm, s/writen/written/ and I'm not Mercatante Bohnet. Fixed in svn but is it worth a upload+reviews? [08:49] allee: naw, I can just fix it before uploading [08:50] Riddell: I'll send you the diff, so I don't have to merge ;) [08:50] Riddell: how to use project under dapper ppc [08:50] freeflying: project? [08:51] Riddell: sent [08:51] Riddell: s/project/projector [08:54] freeflying: you would need to speak to someone else with an iBook, but I believe getting an external display on iBooks with linux is difficult [08:55] freeflying: amu has one, he might know, amu@kubuntu.de [08:56] there has got to be a easier way to keep KubuntuSuggestedPackages tidier [08:56] Riddell: thx, That's maybe wyh can't I use projector with my ibook today [08:57] freeflying: ibook display is difficult [08:58] especially if you are short on time [08:58] JRe: ping [09:01] robotgeek: yeah , when I try to use my ibook with projector, it didn't work [09:01] freeflying: i'll try to get it working, someone claimed that it worked on the ibook === bert_ [n=bert@c529def15.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel === robotgeek thinks he found some launchpad Nigerian spam :) [09:08] where? [09:08] https://launchpad.net/people/tonioy2k2000 [09:09] yeah...... [09:10] yay! [09:11] freeflying: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Apple_iBookG4_12in_1%2e33GHz is this your laptop model? [09:12] freeflying: you might find this useful http://tv.debian.net/articles/ibook-cloned-monitor/ === ubijtsa2 [n=ubijtsa@karlsson.force9.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jmarrero [n=jmarrero@66.231.167.61] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:33] ridell, I've been doing some reading about these special keys etc. what about lineak, does kmilo interact with it? [09:33] never heard of it (so probably not) [09:34] because a kde config tool for has been uploaded to dapper.... [09:34] http://lineak.sourceforge.net/ [09:38] incinerator: klineakconfig doesn't do anything when I run it [09:39] incinerator: according to /usr/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/inet xkb keyboard layouts are based on lineak [09:39] (list of keyboards look very similar) [09:41] ah wicked, Ubuntu Installer informs you of packages [09:42] oh ok [09:43] it seems that symbols/inet is superset or lineak list [09:50] Riddell: heard of the bug in amaroK 1.4rc1 packs? [09:50] jpatrick: nope [09:50] Amarok can't launch lyrics scripts because ruby is not installed: /usr/bin/env ruby: No such file or directory [09:51] kubuntu-devel mailing list [09:51] hmm, so amarok should depend on ruby? [09:51] yes [09:52] I'm not sure if we even have ruby on the CD by default, that could cause problems when it's in the distro (space wise mostly) === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:05] <_Sime> is it just me or does Adept in dapper like to crash a lot.... [10:05] _Sime: what version? [10:05] it used to crash a lot for me, but since i apt-get updated from flight3 to current version it is more stable [10:06] current version is still fairly crashy [10:06] at least compared to what i have now :) [10:07] it's just that making releases is tiresome and time-consuming and boring and all :) [10:07] so there'll be a beta on sunday [10:07] but not before :) [10:07] (probably will slip to monday if i code a lot over weekend) [10:08] <_Sime> Riddell: I think I've got the current version. But I'm now in the process of upgrading/updating everything I can. [10:09] _Sime: well, what does the about box say? === poningru_ [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:10] <_Sime> 1.89 viking alpha 2 [10:11] <_Sime> the adept update notifier is neato. (although the red warning triangle is a bit scary) [10:11] well, there's a known crash after update/apply [10:11] maybe it is supposed to be scary to show that you need something updated :) [10:11] on some systems it'll crash right away [10:11] mornfall: i closed that one bug because it no longer affected my system [10:12] jjesse: there's still the crash right away bug, but it's less widespread now :) === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has left #kubuntu-devel ["With] [10:27] <_Sime> Riddell: BTW, displayconfig-hwprobe.py is not setup to execute at boottime (there are no links in /etc/rc3.d/). [10:28] _Sime: link should be in /etc/rcS.d no? [10:28] default runlevel is 2 though [10:28] ugh, one kind of LUG meeting :) [10:28] Tm_T: hmm? [10:29] Riddell: new hardware in test [10:29] mac mini (as you maybe noticed) and also Nokia 770 === Tm_T will try to get some Qt stuff to Nokia 770 some day [10:29] if I manage to buy my own :) [10:31] jjesse: what's the problem with the quickguide stylesheet? [10:31] well the one on doc.ubuntu.com for the quickguide doesn't look the same as the one on doc.ubuntu.com for release ntoes [10:31] notes [10:32] <_Sime> Riddell: oh. === _Sime is a n00b. === hunger [n=tobias@p54A62520.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:32] <_Sime> Riddell: and indeed it is. :-) [10:32] jjesse: hmm, neither of them work === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:33] Riddell: hmmm [10:34] jjesse: it needs mdke to put the kde bits in /stable on the server [10:35] _Sime: quite some newbie who can write an X configuration tool :) [10:35] Riddell: aye, I promised to keep Kubuntu/KDE presentation during this spring, I'll mail address and all so you can ship some discs :) [10:35] Riddell: but they are all set for dapper? [10:36] jjesse: I'm building a new snapshot now and they all work locally [10:36] Riddell: awesome, then i'll make sure mdke gets those solved at his end [10:36] jjesse: should I include the switching guide? [10:37] Riddell: i don't know if it validates yet, i also need to finish it [10:47] sebas: around? [10:54] luka74: if there no bug the config of lineak and xkb-config should be identical for same keyboard? [10:55] I supose... [10:55] luka74, incinerator: what is your goal? Maybe worth to add to Kubuntu meeting topic tomorrow [10:55] +? [10:55] oh, i'm just a guest.... [10:56] probably won't be in today.... [10:56] I would only like to have my notebook supported out of box - and keyboard setting is one thing that bothers me [10:56] incinerator: we're not a closed group ;) join #ubuntu-meeting tomorrow 20 UTC (see channel title) [10:56] okies [10:56] jjesse: desktopguide needs KDEifying badly [10:57] I will try to join tommorow [10:57] well, i would have something.... [10:57] Riddell: yes :) [10:57] robotgeek: is that on your TODO? [10:57] Riddell: i'm the "main" guy on the Kubuntu Desktop Guide [10:57] laptoptesting encourages people to record unrecognised keycodes etc. and file a bug, i did so but the bug was never touched by anybody.... [10:57] fact is that there is lot's of different stuff duing similar stuff (xkb, lineak, kmilo...) - and they do not play that nicely together [10:57] http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac.png && http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kubuntu_minimac2.png [10:57] ;) [10:57] I'm not talking about content just now, but about changing from xincludes to old fashioned stuff that meinproc can understand [10:58] Riddell: that means getting rid of the menus.xml stuff? [10:58] luka74: xkb is the right thing (tm) ;) lineak and kmilo and other try to work on keycode without having a right keysym assiged [10:58] it seems there's no person for kubuntu who feels responsible for dealing with these laptoptesting issues..... [10:59] robotgeek: I don't see that [10:59] Riddell: sorry, i'm still weak on docbook. [10:59] perhaps one could be appointed (not me!) === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has left #kubuntu-devel [] [10:59] incinerator: take back 'not me!' and we can start to vote ;) [10:59] Riddell: i'm moving this weekend, i'll get to work next week [10:59] allee: I think so too (but I am no expert) - this is why I submitted bug to freedesktop.org and I hope to get some feedback from them [10:59] incinerator: yes, we don't have the manpower is the issue [11:00] okies, well, if someone could show me how to update hotkey-setup and kmilo and whatever, i could surely do it, it doesn't seem to be the most diffucilt task to me, but I've got absolutely no exp maintaining packages etc. I would have to learn that.... [11:01] incinerator: where are the kubuntu specific hardware problems listed? You mean someone needs check every Laptoptesting/... subpage? [11:01] robotgeek: have you asked for access to the SVN archive? [11:01] no, off course not [11:01] Riddell: i don't think there is enough stuff in there to cause serious problems yet [11:01] I have some interest with getting good laptop support (at least HP) as I am pushing other notebook users toward Kubuntu ;-) [11:01] robotgeek: in where? [11:01] (in my compay) [11:01] Riddell: no, i am not yet a member. I'm applying this meeting [11:01] allee: people are supposed to file BRs for these reports.... [11:02] Riddell: in the Kubuntu Desktop Guide. I am sure I can fix all that is needed in a day, so I am currently brushing up my docbook skills === allee is currently hopefully lost in flood on bug reports :( [11:02] thing is, laptoptesting docs at the wiki don't tell how to mark a BR as laptoptesting specific, that should be sorted out, as well. [11:03] allee: I made special testing page for my Kubuntu tests - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HPNW8240/Kubuntu [11:03] Riddell: right now, the stuff validates with xsltproc, i'll switch it over to meinproc after reading KDE documentation guidelines more thoroughly [11:03] incinerator: create a Laptop Testing team and assing those bugs to them? [11:03] robotgeek: get jsgotango to help you maybe, but it just needs changed from xinclues to old style includes [11:04] allee: yup [11:04] Riddell: will do, thanks [11:04] incinerator: did you ask on #lauchpad? [11:04] luka74: checking ... [11:04] no not yet, I just did some triage on bugs I reported.... [11:05] such a team probably exists already anyways, but it's not kubuntu-specific [11:05] incinerator: nevertheless it would be nice to have laptoptsting bug further categorized as base, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu ... [11:05] yes, but that can wait.... [11:06] if we get these keycode things it can happen that it gets fixed in gnome but not in kde it seems.... === robotgeek goes back to packing [11:06] and that should be dealt with for every BR filed regarding keycodes etc. anyways.... [11:06] incinerator: I'm just pondering if tagging isn't a better concept than my suggested 'Team' [11:06] incinerator: exactly - this is why I created new report for my notebook and open new bug requests [11:07] possibly, but I don't know how "tagging" works :-( [11:07] and you've got to get the bug reporters to do it or someone to do the bug triage [11:07] incinerator: I've no idea if tags exissts in launchpad ;) [11:08] thing is, once we know what keycodes are supposed to mean what, it's easy to fix even if the bug reporter is not using kde.... [11:08] and that data should be in the bug report if the laptoptesting procedure is adhered to... [11:09] brb, cigarette... [11:12] back [11:12] allee: anyways, I'll try to get to the meeting tomorrow and we'll see if I can be any help..... [11:13] luka74: argl!!!!! You point me to a page that sets DPI via -dpi? [11:14] allee: do you have better solution (I hate it too)? [11:14] autodetection is just plain wrong and results in ugly fonts (larger than dialogs/windows) [11:15] luka74: a) grep -i dimension /var/log/Xorg.0.log # that a rules and check [11:15] luka74: b) if not correct Set 'DisplaySize x-in-mm y-in-mm' in Monitor section of xorg.conf [11:16] luka74: c) if a is correct, change the font size in kcontrol center [11:16] no dimension in my Xorg.0.log - just DPI [11:17] Sorry - it is in autodetected mode: [11:17] (--) fglrx(0): Display dimensions: (330, 210) mm [11:17] ( [11:18] luka74: and is this correct? [11:19] about right [11:19] luka74: okay then c) ;) [11:20] luka74: you want smaller fonts. then change the fontsize and don't ly about the dimemsion of your screen via -dpi [11:20] but that is painful: it should look nice out-of-box [11:20] not ugly with text getting out of initial login screen (and splash) [11:21] luka74: that a bug in login screen! :( :( I see it everyday here too [11:22] I will reboot now and will try playing around a bit with font sizes [11:23] luka74: no need to restart. Logout and Alt-ctrl-backspace is enough to active a new xorg.conf setting [11:23] s/restart/reboot/ [11:24] I know, but I also got new acpi-support and would not like some side effects on next hibernate... [11:24] luka74: ah, even better is to use k-menu -> new session [11:24] ah, ok [11:24] allee: the problem with dpi setting is that the renderer is far from optimal and it produces weird results at certain pixel sizes [11:25] allee: if you set the dpi to something reasonable, most font sizes look OK [11:25] like going from real to 96 made my fonts fairly more readable [11:25] at roughly same pixel size [11:26] mornfall: that is exactly my impression - 100 (or 120) looks much better than autodetected 147 [11:26] it's virtually impossible to tune the renderer for *all* DPI settings [11:26] considering lack of real hinting in our fonts [11:27] mornfall: decreasing dpi mean using less pixel for the glyhcs. YOu can achieve the same when you set in kcontrol a smaller fontsize [11:27] and eg. vera has embedded bitmaps for some pixel sizes -- which are useless if all your dpi makes all font sizes different from those [11:27] mornfall: AND this work without logout/login be root hack config files and what else [11:27] allee: that would require kcontrol to allow setting pixel sizes... which it doesn't [11:28] allee: it uses points and then you are lucky or not to hit the right pixel size at which font renders good :) [11:28] instead of reduzing dpi by 20% reduce pts used for font by 20%. [11:29] allee: unfortunately, that gives 8.8 point size font, and kcontrol does not seem to support that :) [11:29] mornfall: in kcontrol you see immediately show the font will looks like! That's user friendly [11:29] it's user friendly, but that does not make the font look any better [11:30] giving at least 0.1pt scale would help a lot :) [11:30] but i suspect there are more problems with that [11:30] till then, i'll just set my dpi to 96 thanks :) [11:31] mornfall: well the only 'uglyness' I've seen is that at ~ 120, 2 px are used as width. so from 100 -> 120 dpi regular looks bit more like bold. but after sometime one gets used it it ... [11:32] going back 120 -> 100 ohne has the impression that one has to concentrate to see the thin lines [11:32] i like thin fonts, they look sexy :-) [11:32] unfortunately fontconfig is such a bitch that i cannot have different hinting for different fonts [11:33] and konsole font needs hintfull to be useful at this size === incinerator [n=incinera@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #kubuntu-devel [] === claydoh [n=clay@65.99.186.207] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:35] mornfall: I thought hints are necessary for small pixel sizes? Today monitor tend to have more and more pixel/points [11:39] i have an oldish 17" monitor :-) === ubijtsa [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:45] mornfall: and modern fonts ttf don't include an oldish 75dpi pixel font? Pity :( === allee will saves this dpi thread for as basis for a wiki page === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === luka74 [n=luka74@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:49] allee: I am now on autodetected mode and fonts are just huge [11:50] I can set most of them in System settings (down by 2pt) [11:50] but I will still need to play with lots of manual changes as some apps do not care [11:51] luka74: are the dimensin you find in Xorg.0.conf correct? If yes then you just don't like the default :) [11:51] Konversation, date/time in kicker, KHTML in Akregator... [11:51] allee: if it was 75dpi bitmap, it is useless on a 102dpi display [11:52] allee: (there are either 75 or 96 or 100 bitmap fonts that i know of... and neither of them can be used on a 102dpi display) [11:52] s/neither/none/ [11:53] allee: dimension is OK, but I cannot accept default as it is now ;-) [11:53] mornfall: is the software really that non-fuzzy that a special case for 100 is not use with 102? [11:53] I agree with mornfall that setting dpi to 120 or 100 is just simplier and better [11:53] allee: it may be used at 102, but definitely not at 112 [11:53] allee: because that's just too far [11:54] if it's 102 it's probably "wrong but better looking" [11:54] +for [11:58] luka74: if you find an app, where you didn't set a font size and it does not rescale (at least after restart) it's IMHO a bug/wish that's worth reporting [11:59] allee: problem is that I have to modify many apps (cannot just globaly say all fonts -20% size) [12:00] And that is a lot of work and not out-of-box solution (which is why I love Kubuntu) [12:00] mornfall: better looking, fonts too big too small .... would be nice to have screenshots of such cases [12:02] luka74: the global -20% for standard and app-spefic fonts size is a feature that does not exists in KDE (I assume it because I have never seen it) === mornfall notes he currently gave up on free fonts -- using some maybe-pirated ttf's === allee suggest then not to document this via public available screenshots