[12:11] <HiddenWolf> *grumble*
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> why can't launchpad just send its mails from malone-deamon@launchpad.net
[12:12] <Burgwork> HiddenWolf, rather than as the person?
[12:12] <mjg59> Subject: xserver-xgl_7.0.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: now I have to do a filter like "IF not from $list-of-bugzilla-emails AND  subject is [Bug $something"
[12:13] <Burgwork> HiddenWolf, I filed a bug on the stupid email behaviour
[12:13] <Seveas> HiddenWolf, filter on headers....
[12:13] <Seveas> Every malone mail has malone headers...
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: got a point there.
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: you rock
[12:13] <Seveas> which is quite useful
[12:14] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: murphy's law that you upload them when I probably won't have time to test for a week, but you rock still. :)
[12:14] <Seveas> mjg59, you're insane too by the way for doing it this quick :)
[12:14] <Seveas> thanks!
[12:14] <Seveas> This will make quite a few people switch to dapper for testing...
[12:15] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: shush, if it helps shut up the noobs, that's cool.
[12:15] <HiddenWolf> Seveas: switch to dapper, rather than gentoo. Looks good to me. :)
[12:15] <Seveas> :D
[12:15] <Burgwork> mjg59, once it gets through new and is test installed, you should send something out via -devel-announce
[12:32] <sebest> ajmitch_ bug 6509
[12:32] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6509 in avahi "Daemon fails to refresh network services after connecting to wlan" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6509
[12:36] <ajmitch_> ok
[12:50] <elmo> what was the default postfix config for breezy - does anyone know?
[12:51] <infinity> elmo: Other than "not installed", you mean?
[12:51] <elmo> really?  ok, so this must be a hoary box
[12:51] <elmo> what was the default postfix config for hoary - does anyone know?
[12:51] <elmo> :P
[12:52] <infinity> Listening only on localhost, local and remote delivery...
[12:52] <elmo> hmm, ok, so this box being in 'noconfig' state is unusal
[12:53] <elmo> and I suppose bombing out when even 'lo' is not configured/present isn't entirely unreasonable
[12:55] <elmo> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[12:55] <elmo> ps auxfw no longer works in dapper?!
[12:55] <infinity> Works here...
[12:56] <mjg59> elmo: If you can shove xserver-xgl through NEW, billions of forum users are going to shut up and leave me alone
[12:56] <elmo> mjg59: COO's laptop trumps xgl
[12:56] <mjg59> elmo: Damnit.
[12:57] <bj_> haha
[12:57] <mjg59> elmo: I bet Mark would disagree :p
[12:57] <elmo> infinity: cough, don't mind me
[12:58] <elmo> so, hum, at refuses to configure if at is already running - is that reasonable?
[12:59] <Seveas> elmo, how did you create a system where postfix is unconfigured, at is running but not configured and ps auxfw does not work? :)
[12:59] <infinity> elmo: ... Really?  I see no such evil in the postinst...
[01:00] <elmo> infinity: it runs /etc/init.d/atd start, that breaks if atd is running
[01:00] <infinity> Oh, yes, it does do invoke-rc.d atd start
[01:00] <infinity> Which it should.
[01:00] <infinity> So the real problem is that the init script should exit 0 when starting if it's started already...
[01:01] <elmo> yikes dapper is very mouse-overy
[01:02] <Seveas> Somehow I think Ubuntu is going in the completely wrong direction...
[01:02] <Seveas> Accepted twisted-words 0.3.0-2ubuntu1 (source)
[01:02] <elmo> and very dark
[01:02] <elmo> why is the screen so dark
[01:02] <ajmitch_> Seveas: why is that bad?
[01:02] <Seveas> ajmitch_, How is accepting twisted words good?
[01:03] <Seveas> (sorry if the 1am humor does not come out right?
[01:03] <Seveas> s/\?/)/
[01:03] <ajmitch_> have you not met some of the developers? very twisted indeed
[01:03] <infinity> elmo: On battery?  The defaults for backlight scaling seem a bit off.
[01:03] <elmo> nah, it's plugged in
[01:04] <infinity> Well, could still be the same thing. :)
[01:04] <elmo> the brightness controls work, so it's trivial to fix, just seems a bad default
[01:04] <infinity> Yeah.
[01:06] <elmo> ok, the magic appearing cog wheels thing is teh ugly
[01:06] <mjg59> "Appearing cog wheels thing"?
[01:07] <elmo> at the gdm login screen, Options in the bottom left is strangely indented to the right
[01:07] <elmo> 'cos when you mouse over, a red set of cog wheels appearsnext to it
[01:14] <infinity> elmo: at init script bug(s) fixed.  Thanks for the heads up.
[01:14] <elmo> infinity: cheers
[01:15] <elmo> doko: btw, why is it C+R?  if it's just file-overwrite it should only be R?
[01:17] <infinity> I've given up on expecting maintainers to read the s-s-d manpage, I think. :/
[01:17] <doko> elmo: hmm, correct. will change it for the next upload
[01:23] <mjg59> ARGH I HATE THIS SOFTWARE
[01:25] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: care to vent your frustration?
[01:27] <mjg59> Cocking thing has suddenly decided to build a different library
[02:01] <sebest> this one is really nasty ( bug 31429 )
[02:01] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31429 in udev "ethernet device name has been changed." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31429
[02:14] <hyperactivecrond> if i want to test out kubuntu is the daily release or the 3rd flight cd better off testing?
[02:14] <hyperactivecrond> o' dapper
[02:15] <infinity> Testing dailies is always appreciated.
[02:16] <hyperactivecrond> alrite.  will do 
[02:59] <Kyral> Do the Daily builds of the LiveCDs have the new installer on them?
[03:32] <honkzilla> Bug, feature, or user bone-headedness: An SMC2632W (not V2 or 3) 802.11b wireless card does not work correctly with the orinoco_cs driver that is loaded by default.  I have tried with and without the hermes module.  eth1 is present, and iwconfig can read some information about the card, but cannot set anything other than essid, and the card never associates.
[03:32] <honkzilla> If anyone has some experience with such a card, I'd appreciate some guidance.
[03:46] <wasabi> One of these days I need to go read wtf malone is
[04:01] <LaserJock> wasabi: is the Ubuntu bug tracker. http://launchpad.net/malone/
[04:40] <Chipzz> rofl :)
[04:40] <Chipzz> (closes: Matthew Garrett's mouth).
[04:40] <Lathiat> haha
[04:40] <Lathiat> whats that in
[04:40] <Chipzz> mesa (6.4.1-0ubuntu3) changelog entry
[04:40] <Lathiat> haha
[04:41] <desrt> wobbly windows are fun.
[04:42] <Chipzz> I'm laughing at anyone, just at that entry :)
[04:43] <Chipzz> errr
[04:43] <Chipzz> +not
[04:43] <Chipzz> :P
[04:48] <Chipzz> lol at udev (079-0ubuntu12) changelog entry too :)
[04:48] <Chipzz> reading changelogs can be amusing sometimes ;)
[04:48] <desrt> right.  so it's becoming important to me again
[04:49] <desrt> how do i draw alpha using gtk?
[04:49] <desrt> like if i want to make a gtkwindow with a background colour of (255,255,255,0.0)
[06:39] <theball> hi
[06:42] <theball> is anyone available for a few questions on dapper?
[06:48] <mpt_> Kamion, ping
[07:45] -RobLevin:#ubuntu-devel- We are doing some upgrades you might want to type /server irc.freenode.net to the newer servers. Thanks.
[08:43] <sivang> morning all
[08:43] <HiddenWolf> good morning
[08:46] <sivang> hey HiddenWolf , are you running xgl already? :)
[08:46] <HiddenWolf> sivang: waiting for mjg59's crack to get past new. :)
[08:47] <HiddenWolf> sivang: I should really be writing a business plan and preparing a statistics examination, but well... :)
[09:09] <sivang> HiddenWolf: who wants to that that , anyways ? :)
[09:09] <sivang> HiddenWolf: ah, so it's already fixed and uploadeD?
[09:09] <HiddenWolf> sivang: mjg pasted the subject of his acceptance mail in the channel yesterday about 1am
[09:10] <HiddenWolf> sivang: and well, there are about three parties I could attend today and tomorrow, and a band playing. :)
[09:10] <HiddenWolf> sivang: murphy's. When the cool thing happens, you're otherwise occupied. :)
[09:11] <pitti> Hi
[09:11] <HiddenWolf> Good morning pitti
[09:21] <sivang> HiddenWolf: indeed :)
[09:21] <pitti> hi sivang
[09:22] <sivang> pitti: did you get my email regarding volume.disc.capacity namespace ? 
[09:23] <pitti> infinity: yay new enigmail :)
[09:25] <sivang> pitti: there's an upstream fix in CVS, that adds this property. It would be very helpful to have ti fro HOmeUserBackup, seb128 also mentioned you might want to ask UVF excemption for the new hal when it hits debian?
[09:26] <pitti> sivang: uh, no, I didn't get it - where did you send it to?
[09:26] <sivang> pitti: martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[09:27] <virogenesis> has anyone else been experiencing 9 floppy drivers when running breezy?
[09:27] <sivang> morning mvo 
[09:27] <virogenesis> morning
[09:28] <mvo> hey sivang
[09:28] <mvo> how is HUB coming along?
[09:28] <pitti> sivang: hm, odd, which subject?
[09:28] <sivang> pitti: can't recall :-/
[09:30] <sivang> pitti:them email was asking if we could create a patch from the upstream CVS for it.
[09:31] <pitti> sivang: hm, I didn't get any mail
[09:32] <sivang> pitti: okay. nevermind. mind if I explain ?
[09:38] <pitti> sivang: ah, got it now
[09:39] <sivang> pitti: upstream fixed fd.o bug #2233, which is about adding disc capacity probing in the linux2 backend, if we could pull this update and incorporate it in our hal it would be great for HomeUserBackup, will allow me to do automatic slicing based on the inserted CD's capacity. Could we have this as a patch if you're not syncing the next hal from debian?
[09:39] <pitti> sivang: it was hanging around in the postfix queue
[09:39] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2233 in gnomebaker "Gnomebaker blanking fail under breezy" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2233
[09:39] <sivang> pitti: ah, cool :)
[09:39] <pitti> sivang: ah, I remember that bug
[09:39] <pitti> sivang: I had a similar problem with n-c-b
[09:39] <pitti> sivang: I hope that we can upgrade to 0.5.7
[09:39] <Seveas> sivang, try "freedesktop bug 2233" if you want to keep ubutu happy ;)
[09:39] <Ubugtu> freedesktop bug 2233 in hald "Add capacity property for CD/DVD volumes" [Normal,New]  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2233
[09:40] <pitti> sivang: but if not, pulling that patch is easy
[09:40] <sivang> pitti: cool, even I could od it :)
[09:40] <sivang> pitti: when will we know if mdz approves it?
[09:41] <sivang> Seveas: fd.o is shorter to type :)
[09:41] <pitti> sivang: hal upstream is imported into bazaar.ubuntu.com, that's where I usually grab patches from :)
[09:41] <sivang> pitti: even cooler, that makes it even easier :)
[09:46] <infinity> pitti: even better when it builds everywhere. :)
[09:47] <pitti> infinity: oh, if you need to upload another version, could you add the CVE number to the changelog?
[09:47] <infinity> pitti: It's in there.
[09:47] <infinity> pitti: The changelog includes the changelog entry from the breezy-security upload.
[09:47] <pitti> infinity: oh, ok, I didn't see it on d-changes
[09:48] <pitti> ok, I must have been blind then :)
[09:48] <infinity> Nah, I didn't get it in the .changes, you're not blind. :)
[09:48] <infinity> The .changes included everything > breezy-security
[09:48] <pitti> ok *phew* 
[09:49] <Mithrandir> maswan: care to take a look at ravel?  Seems not to be ponging
[09:51] <Alinux> guteb morgen pitti , guten morgen all! :)
[09:53] <Alinux> looolz
[09:53] <Alinux> 2 mal :)
[09:56] <Kamion> Kyral: yes, but not widely advertised yet - that'll change over the next couple of days
[09:56] <Kamion> mpt_: yes?
[09:58] <pitti> hey dholbach 
[09:58] <Kamion> mjg59: it's kinda weird how much crap is in the xserver-xgl .diff.gz (like Makefile.in files)
[09:58] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:58] <fabbione> hey dholbach 
[09:59] <dholbach> hey fabbione
[09:59] <fabbione> Dear Desktop Team, please make gconf2 sucks less on amd64
[09:59] <fabbione> dholbach: :)
[09:59] <Mithrandir> s/on amd64//
[09:59] <Kamion> (but accepted anyway, looks fine)
[10:00] <Lathiat> so is novell actually shipping this?
[10:01] <mpt_> Kamion, how's the Espresso GUI going? I'm wondering if it would be ok to change one of the mockups to help answer the oft-asked question "why wasn't I asked for the root password?"
[10:09] <Kamion> mpt_: "in progress"
[10:09] <Kamion> mpt_: feel free to change that mockup, yes; I haven't turned the Guadalinex UI into that screen yet
[10:09] <mpt_> ok
[10:09] <Kamion> although I do reserve the right not to copy the text verbatim :)
[10:10] <Kamion> (if we get user-setup improvements upstream that deal with the root password thing, as we should do soon, then I'll prefer that text because we'll have translations of it
[10:10] <Kamion> )
[10:11] <mpt_> fair enough
[10:14] <sivang> mvo: oh just now saw your lines, I've almost finished the backend stuff (now working on the BackupEngine class which is the last one) I have cool progress indication propogation using generators, and now waiting for our hal to report volume.disc.capacity, workarounding the fact dar would backup only from one source path at a time, writing the cd burning support and see how I translate to the GUI the incermental backup and restore features of dar
[10:27] <HiddenWolf> Lathiat: looks like they're shipping it.
[10:31] <jsgotangco> ?
[10:31] <siretart> morning
[10:31] <jsgotangco> hi!
[10:31] <pitti> hi siretart 
[10:36] <siretart> hi pitti 
[10:37] <siretart> elmo: could you please sync dssi_0.9.1-2 from unstable? thanks
[10:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: you're aware that serpentine is uninstallable due to python-gst0.10 being in universe?
[10:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: yep, nothing I can do
[10:45] <seb128> I don't have promotion foo
[10:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: is a main inclusion report needed or can we just promote?
[10:45] <seb128> just promote
[10:45] <Mithrandir> source's not in main, though.  Newer version?
[10:45] <ogra> which we cant apparently
[10:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, namechange due to version name in binary ...
[10:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: we can't what?  promote packages?
[10:46] <ogra> yes
[10:46] <ogra> apparently .
[10:46] <Mithrandir> why's that?
[10:46] <ogra> dunno ...
[10:47] <dholbach> ogra: What problem are you specifically referring to?
[10:47] <ogra> we can, but it maight be in elmos hands or in soyuz teams hands and teakes time ... inputattach *was* promoted ...
[10:47] <ogra> dholbach, read above
[10:47] <ogra> dholbach, all CDs breake due to python-gst0.10 being not in main ...
[10:47] <Mithrandir> grr, so we can't just prod Kamion for it?
[10:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, he'll point you to elmo, or soyuz or whomever ...
[10:48] <seb128_> re
 that's python-gst new version
 that has been discussed yesterday, but I think Kamion doesn't have the runes for it neither
 we need to ask elmo
[10:49] <tepsipakki> yay, xserver-xgl built successfully :)
[10:51] <HiddenWolf> now we wait for mjg59 to gather more bugs than daniels ever did. ;)
[10:54] <sivang> xgl is go?
[10:55] <HiddenWolf> how bad can it break? :)
[10:55] <seb128_> that's not a such good idea to ship new cracks like that :p
[10:55] <sivang> seb128_: don't be a party breaker /me hugs seb128_ 
[10:55] <seb128_> people will flood the lists and launchpad of questions and bugs about them
[10:55] <sivang> :)
[10:55] <seb128_> no, no hug
[10:55] <seb128_> I'm not joking ....
[10:55] <HiddenWolf> seb128, it's a worse idea to let the random noob get it from some apt-get.org archive
[10:56] <HiddenWolf> seb128, at least this way you can have some influence on how they fuck up their systems.
[10:56] <seb128_> when they get apt-get.org we can reject the bugs and say the list is not right place
[10:56] <seb128_> ie: if you install broken stuff by yourself you take your responsability :)
[10:56] <ogra> seb128_, +++++++ from me 
[10:56] <sivang> seb128_: maybe we can setup special lists and channels for that :) but seriously, you're probably right, it will cause some overhead, but then how otherwise the new crack will get stable and old ?
[10:56] <ogra> i agree its a really bad idea
[10:57] <seb128_> dapper is not meant for new crack
[10:57] <seb128_> we should focus on stabilize
[10:57] <sivang> oh right! "stable and boring"
[10:57] <seb128_> stable is not really boring
[10:57] <sivang> it was just mark's words :)
[10:57] <seb128_> I'm happy to have a stable box
[10:57] <sivang> in a joke, ofcourse
[10:57] <seb128_> rather than a fun box crashing every 5 min
[10:57] <ogra> and 3 years of bugreports for broken crack we cant fix are no fun either
[10:58] <sivang> seb128_: right , that is a good point.
[10:58] <dholbach> it's in universe, relax
[10:58] <HiddenWolf> obviously
[10:58] <seb128_> dholbach: I'm somewhat happy we ship it, some crack addict will want to try it :)
[10:58] <ogra> dholbach, as the 2.6.11 kernel snapshot was ... (yes i know it appeared like an update there... but still)
[10:58] <seb128_> but people start abusing ubuntu-devel list about it
[10:58] <sivang> so maybe we can tell people that u-d ML is not right place for universe stuff, but u-m is possibly better, will that solve that?
[10:59] <ogra> sivang, does it matter which ML you spam with it ? 
[10:59] <seb128_> people don't listen when you say that
[10:59] <dholbach> the u-d mailing list is not the right place for bugs
[10:59] <ogra> it produces noise *anywhere*
[10:59] <dholbach> it's a madhouse at the moment
[11:00] <seb128_> anyway that's the same issue than backport
[11:00] <seb128_> we have a class of users which just want to try everything new and who complains 2 days after the stuff are here if it's not packaged
[11:00] <seb128_> on what list?
[11:01] <seb128_> totem?
[11:01] <ogra> yes... u-d
[11:01] <ogra> yesterday ...
[11:01] <sivang> seb128_: what would you think would be a better approach? not provide even through universE? wait for it to stabilize?
[11:01] <seb128_> sivang: ship stuff when they are ready to be used
[11:01] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, dapper yesterday build. I choose Portuguese via F2 in the first splash screen and I proceed with installation. At a certain point I'm forced to choose I guess Brazilian Cities, in timezone configuration.
[11:01] <ogra> sivang, not for a 3 year frozen release 
[11:01] <seb128_> doko: you broke gnome-python!!
[11:02] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, and that does not happen pressing enter and then choosing the language. Is this expected ?
[11:02] <ogra> yoou can do that with a normal release ... and make a VERY BIG POINTER TO USE AT YOU OWN RISK
[11:02] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: file a bug report on debian-installer with full directions on how to reproduce the bug please
[11:02] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, ok
[11:02] <Kamion> Portuguese is an awkward case
[11:04] <tepsipakki> arf, the ia64 build of xgl is still pending
[11:05] <tepsipakki> is floe so much slower?
[11:06] <seb128> maybe a question for #launchpad
[11:06] <seb128> if you have a buildd issue
[11:06] <seb128> but I would suggest to have a bit of patience
[11:07] <tepsipakki> seb128: no issue, just impatient ;)
[11:08] <seb128> tepsipakki: please express your impatience somewhere else so :p
[11:08] <seb128> that's not the place
[11:09] <tepsipakki> ok, sorry :)
[11:25] <mjg59> Kamion: The orig.tar.gz is the CVS
[11:25] <mjg59> Kamion: It needed some heavy re-autotooling
[11:27] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, #31477, hope it's clear.
[11:31] <Kinnison> Kamion: wiki updated.
[11:34] <Treenaks> mjg59: it's known that the just-built xserver-xorg tries to access a non-existing dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/xgl/libxglx.so ?
[11:34] <mjg59> xserver-xorg?
[11:34] <Treenaks> mjg59: uh.. xserver-xgl
[11:34] <mjg59> Treenaks: The wacom-tools build is nasty and I don't understand it. I'll look again later on.
[11:34] <mjg59> Treenaks: What version?
[11:35] <Treenaks> mjg59: 7.0.0-0ubuntu1
[11:35] <lixus> hello, is this the correct channel to ask questions about  http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily/current/dapper-install-powerpc.OVERSIZED ?
[11:35] <Treenaks> when I built it myself it sort-of worked (though compiz broke with "GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing"); autobuild of the same package seems broken
[11:36] <ogra> lixus, its to big for the iso size ... thus the OVERZIZED file ...
[11:36] <mjg59> Treenaks: Now that's odd. I uploaded 7.0.0-0ubuntu2 (and have the .uploaded file to prove it), but it seems to have vanished
[11:36] <lixus> ogra, thanks. that explains why i got read errors during install
[11:37] <ogra> lixus, for the install isos its helpful to have a look at report.html ... if thats empty for powerpc, its more likely to work ...
[11:37] <Treenaks> eaten by the launchpad
[11:37] <ogra> mjg59, is it NEW ?
[11:38] <lixus> btw the "current" link in the URL makes not much sense as it got re-linked while i was downloading overnight and therefore i ended up in broken iso
[11:38] <Treenaks> ogra: it was
[11:38] <mjg59> ogra: I uploaded a version that went into NEW. I then uploaded another version.
[11:38] <ogra> mjg59, did it get processed in the NEW queue ? 
[11:39] <ogra> note that we have some other stuff sitting there as well 
[11:39] <lixus> ogra, will it work to burn that oversized iso to a DVD ? or are there differences between DVD ISOs and cdrom ISOs ?
[11:39] <mjg59> ogra: There wouldn't be any versions built otherwise
[11:39] <ogra> mjg59, binary NEW :)
[11:39] <Treenaks> mjg59: did you upload the second version before NEW was processed?
[11:39] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yes
[11:39] <mjg59> I believe
[11:39] <Treenaks> maybe that's the bug
[11:40] <ogra> lixus, thats really a matter of luck ... i saw some that worked from DVD ... i guess it depends on the amount of oversizedness ...
[11:45] <Kamion> mjg59: fair enough
[11:46] <Kamion> lixus: burning to DVD should be just fine
[11:46] <Kamion> I don't think it's a matter of luck unless we manage to oversize things by about 4GB
[11:47] <lixus> Kamion & ogra thanks, i'll try with a DVD.
[11:47] <ogra> yeah it might be additional breakage i was hit by ...
[11:48] <Treenaks> mjg59: so you're re-uploading 0ubuntu2? or are you fixing more stuff and skipping to 0ubuntu3?
[11:48] <mjg59> Treenaks: I've just re-uploaded 0ubuntu2, because Launchpad dropped it on the floor
[11:48] <Treenaks> go launchpad!
[11:48] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: hey, even NASA can't get them up all the time.
[11:49] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: that's because NASA is populated with old men :P
[12:06] <ogra> Kinnison, mjg59, do you also think that we should set the defaults for "on battery" and "on ac" to "never" in g-p-m ? on battery is currently set to 20min and causes some surprises for user that arent aware of the switch to g-p-m
[12:07] <Kinnison> what defaults would you suggest?
[12:07] <ogra> never 
[12:07] <ogra> if a user wants to tweak it, he can ...
[12:07] <pitti> ogra++
[12:07] <Riddell> mvo: ping
[12:07] <mammadori> hi all, I would like to help ('cause of master thesis in IT engineering) in development of the LiveCD, where I could start watching devel tools, sources and coordination?
[12:07] <Kinnison> you mean 'never' for the autosuspend?
[12:07] <Riddell> mvo: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/gnome-app-install.diff
[12:07] <ogra> but if you get switched over silently it doesnt just suspend
[12:07] <Kinnison> ogra: or for some other config?
[12:07] <Riddell> mvo: quite a broken clean rule that package has
[12:08] <ogra> Kinnison, look at the power preferences
[12:08] <Kinnison> I got upstream to accept our use-case for lock-only btw
[12:08] <ogra> there are sliders for "on ac power" (thats "never" by default) and for "on battery" thats "20 min" by default
[12:08] <ogra> cool :)
[12:09] <Kinnison> ogra: right, so you're talking about the autosuspend on inactivity
[12:09] <Kinnison> ogra: yeah, i think the default for on-battery should be 'never'
[12:09] <ogra> yup
[12:09] <ogra> oki ... setting that ...
[12:09] <Kinnison> You're preparing another g-p-m upload?
[12:10] <ogra> you can do it if you want ... the settings are in data/gnome-power-manager.schemas.in
[12:10] <ogra> also what do we do about notifications ? 
[12:10] <Kinnison> I was thinking about that one
[12:10] <Kinnison> I think having a "show notifications" option which defaults to 'on' would be nice
[12:11] <ogra> there is one for "fully_charged" (which makes sense imho) and one for "ac_unplugged" (which doesnt imho)
[12:11] <Kinnison> I found the ac_unplugged one useful just yesterday
[12:11] <ogra> since i *know* i just umplugged the power
[12:11] <Kinnison> rob tripped over my power cable and unplugged it from the power brick
[12:11] <ogra> it helps on power outeages indeed :P
[12:11] <Kinnison> and since I have the brightness set the same on both, I noticed
[12:11] <Kinnison> only because I had the notification
[12:12] <ogra> Kinnison, did you note silbs problem with brightness ? 
[12:12] <mjg59> The problem with putting a default for sleep on battery is that it won't work on all machines
[12:12] <Kinnison> ogra: which bug number is that?
[12:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: aye, so defaulting to never seems sane
[12:12] <mjg59> Also:
[12:12] <ogra> ot was set to 7% or something after the upgarde .... being on ac
[12:12] <ogra> Kinnison, no idea if there is a bug number
[12:12] <mjg59> Doing anything that enables sleep should pop up a dialog saying that it's experimental and may not work
[12:13] <mjg59> (Possibly with a "Go away and don't tell me again" box)
[12:13] <mjg59> I think we need to indicate that it's potentially dangerous
[12:13] <mammadori> I would like to help LiveCD development, any advices?
[12:14] <Kamion> the live CD is built automatically from normal Ubuntu packages; there aren't many pieces that are specific to the live CCD
[12:14] <Kamion> er, CD
[12:15] <Kamion> this channel and the ubuntu-devel mailing list are good places to start out watching development
[12:16] <Kinnison> ogra: I certainly believe we should default the brightness to 100% in all cases too
[12:16] <mammadori> Kamion: I would like to help on automatic tools, not on packaging or similar, initramfs, unionfs, squashfs, casper-cow and so on 
[12:16] <ogra> Kinnison, hmm, it saves a lot of battery if you turn it lower on battery ...
[12:17] <ogra> i'd suggest 60% on battery and 100% on ac
[12:17] <mammadori> (bad comma I wrote); so I would like to help in the many specific LiveCD areas
[12:17] <ogra> or 70% on battery 
[12:17] <Kinnison> ogra: if that's easy to express in the default schema then cool
[12:17] <Kinnison> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331164 btw
[12:17] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331164 in gnome-power-manager "No facility to lock the screen on lid closure" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  
[12:18] <ogra> the schema has defaults for both ...
[12:18] <ogra> Kinnison, oh thats a duplicate
[12:18] <pitti> on the same topic, the screensaver still gets active right after resuming, which is a big annoyance
[12:19] <ogra> Kinnison, Bug 29881
[12:19] <ogra> thats the older and original one ...
[12:19] <infinity> pitti: Due to clock skew, I assume, though some may see it as a feature anyway.
[12:19] <pitti> ogra: heh, ubugtu minds capitalization :)
[12:19] <ogra> Kinnison, silly Ubugtu bug 29881
[12:19] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29881 in gnome-screensaver "Closing the lid should lock the screen if locking is activated in gnome-screensaver" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29881
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: well, real time indeed progressed half a day when I resume my laptop
[12:20] <infinity> pitti: Exactly.
[12:20] <ogra> Kinnison, ah, oh, yours is upstream :)
[12:20] <pitti> infinity: well, it should either lock the screen before going to sleep, or not get active at all
[12:20] <pitti> right now, it's just silly
[12:20] <Kinnison> ogra: aye :-)
[12:20] <ogra> haha
[12:21] <infinity> pitti: I'd be fine with activating/locking before sleeping.
[12:21] <ogra> Kinnison, look at the schemas file and dig for "LCD" 
[12:21] <pitti> infinity: as a default, agreed, if it can be turned off easily
[12:21] <Kamion> mammadori: generally the best approach is just to dive in on stuff that interests you; sending patches for existing bug reports is often a good place to start
[12:21] <Kamion> s/place/way/
[12:21] <infinity> pitti: And yeah, I see the point.  If you don't want it to lock, we should have a way to tell the screensaver on resume "hey, I just came back from resume, ignore that 5 day clock skew"...
[12:21] <ogra> Kinnison, on ac: <default>7</default>, on battery <default>3</default>
[12:21] <ogra> Kinnison, thats percent ....
[12:22] <pitti> infinity: right; I don't need my screen locked if I just keep my laptop in my room
[12:25] <ogra> Kinnison, ah, see bug 31490, silbs just filed it 
[12:25] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31490 in gnome-power-manager "Default settings need review" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31490
[12:25] <Kinnison> ogra: If you take on the g-p-m stuff, I can finish my acpid patches
[12:25] <ogra> oki
[12:28] <siretart> elmo: please sync u++_5.3.0-1 from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[12:31] <fabbione> siretart: isn't that an UVF exception too?
[12:32] <siretart> fabbione: we already have 5.3.0 in dapper, as 5.3.0-0ubuntu1
[12:32] <siretart> fabbione: we updated ahead of debian
[12:32] <sivang> pitti: http://bazaar.ubuntu.com/hal@arch.ubuntu.com/ <== branch from here if I want to grab the patch?
[12:35] <pitti> sivang: yes
[12:35] <fabbione> siretart: ok
[12:35] <sivang> pitti: thx
[12:37] <mjg59> How often do packages get picked up by the buildds?
[12:39] <Treenaks> mjg59: should 0ubuntu2 fix the GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap thing from compiz too?
[12:39] <Treenaks> or is that a compiz bug?
[12:40] <ogra> seb128, how do i reset my gconf user defaults for one specific app without wiping all my settings with the new %gconf-tree.xml implementation ??
[12:41] <mjg59> Treenaks: Upgrade mesa
[12:41] <seb128> ogra: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/app
[12:41] <ogra> thanks :)
[12:41] <seb128> np
[12:41] <Treenaks> mjg59: to what? I have the newest
[12:41] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ah. In that case, make sure that compiz links itself against Mesa, not the ATI libGL
[12:41] <mjg59> LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD is probably the easiest way to do that
[12:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: nvidia, but yes
[12:42] <mjg59> Treenaks: BTW - does radeonfb work on your laptop?
[12:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: which laptop? the one with broken X ?
[12:44] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah
[12:45] <Kinnison> mjg59: before I make my first unsponsored upload, can I get you to review the diff (s'tiny)
[12:45] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'll try when I'm back home
[12:45] <Kinnison> mjg59: acpid, fixes bug 31407, http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/acpid-8-9.diff
[12:45] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31407 in acpid "powerbtn.sh incorrectly looks for PowerManager" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31407
[12:46] <infinity> Kinnison: Oh, just upload.  You can always upload again if you were wrong! ;)
[12:46] <Treenaks> mjg59: about compiz, this means the universe one doesn't work out of the box..
[12:46] <infinity> Kinnison: Besides, I hear that soyuz thingee needs as many uploads as possible to stress test it.
[12:46] <mjg59> Kinnison: It should also check for the KDE equivalent
[12:46] <fabbione> Kinnison: looks good to me.. screw KDE :P
[12:47] <mjg59> Treenaks: I'll think about ways around that
[12:47] <Kinnison> mjg59: I thought the dcop thing was the KDE one
[12:47] <mjg59> Kinnison: No, that just sends a message to KDE to log you off
[12:47] <Kinnison> mjg59: Oh, it's not interactive ?
[12:48] <mjg59> Kinnison: If there's a KDE power policy manager running, it probably ought to be in charge
[12:48] <Kinnison> mjg59: right, do you happen to know the name of such?
[12:48] <mjg59> Kinnison: Not off the top of my head - Riddell?
[12:48] <Riddell> Kinnison: it'll be kded for now, may change to kpowersave soon
[12:49] <mjg59> Treenaks: I guess it's possible to just add a wrapper that makes sure it links against the right library
[12:49] <Kinnison> Riddell: so if I make it drop out if kded or kpowersave is seen, that'll do the trick?
[12:49] <Riddell> Kinnison: actually  `dcop kded | grep klaptopdaemon`
[12:49] <Riddell> Kinnison: yes
[12:49] <Kinnison> umm
[12:49] <mjg59> Treenaks: Where does mesa end up on an nvidia sysem?
[12:50] <Kinnison> Riddell: I don't understand dcop so can you construct for me a shell fragment to DTRT?
[12:50] <Kinnison> Riddell: and pastebin it or something?
[12:50] <Riddell> Kinnison: if  `dcop kded | grep klaptopdaemon`  return klaptopdaemon then it's running, else it's not
[12:51] <Kinnison> Riddell: if [ "x$(dcop kded | grep klaptopdaemon)" != x ] ; then \n exit\nfi
[12:51] <Kinnison> Riddell: ?
[12:51] <Kinnison> Riddell: and for kpowersave?
[12:51] <Treenaks> mjg59: uh, which file?
[12:52] <Treenaks> mjg59: I have libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa in /usr/lib/nvidia
[12:52] <Riddell> Kinnison: look right yes.  just pidof kpowersave would work
[12:52] <Kinnison> Riddell: righty
[12:52] <mjg59> Treenaks: So it gets moved there when you install the nvidia drivers?
[12:53] <Treenaks> mjg59: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
[12:53] <Treenaks> diverted by nvidia-glx to: /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa
[12:53] <Treenaks> /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
[12:53] <Treenaks> diverted by nvidia-glx to: /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa
[12:53] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ok, thanks
[12:53] <Riddell> _mvo_: ping
[12:53] <mvo> Riddell: pong
[12:53] <Riddell> 11:07 < Riddell> mvo: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/gnome-app-install.diff
[12:53] <Riddell> 11:07 < Riddell> mvo: quite a broken clean rule that package has
[12:55] <Kinnison> Riddell: I've updated the diff I listed above, can you check it out?
[12:56] <Riddell> Kinnison: good for me thanks
[12:56] <Kinnison> Riddell: cool, ta
[12:56] <infinity> mjg59: I don't think there's much hope for Xgl working with fglrx/nvidia... Preloading the mesa libGL will hideously break the custom libGLs, which will break GL rendering, which would sort of defeat the purpose of Xgl...
[12:57] <pitti> infinity: in that case, having xgl doesn't make much sense at all? how did the novell guys solve that?
[12:57] <pitti> infinity: I have yet to see an OSS driver which provides the necessary performance...
[12:58] <infinity> pitti: Hrm?  It'll work fine with free OpenGL implementations, of which we have many.
[12:58] <mjg59> infinity: Xgl uses the custom libGLs, but then any clients use Mesa
[12:58] <mjg59> infinity: It works fine
[12:58] <pitti> infinity: well, hw opengl works OOTB on my laptop at least, but it's performance is still pretty poor
[12:58] <infinity> pitti: the radeon driver has pretty decent OpenGL performance on most cards except for the shiniest and newest.
[12:58] <pitti> infinity: hm, if 'shiniest an newest' includes cards which are two years old ...
[12:59] <Treenaks> pitti: Radeon 9600 works fine with the 'radeon' driver for me
[12:59] <infinity> pitti: No... Shiniest and newest is pretty shiny and new... radeon works well with full accel on my X300.
[12:59] <Treenaks> pitti: (+ accelerated OpenGL on)
[12:59] <pitti> Treenaks: cool, that didn't yet work half a year ago even
[12:59] <infinity> mjg59: Hrm.  Alright.
[12:59] <Treenaks> pitti: no, it's a Dapper Exclusive ;)
[12:59] <pitti> Treenaks: the only driver that really works on my flatmate's breezy is vesa :(
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> pitti: I guess there is some sense to novell shipping this crack
[01:00] <Treenaks> pitti: yeughrgh
[01:00] <pitti> Treenaks: (he has some 9600ish card, too)
[01:00] <infinity> mjg59: Should I "fix" LRM to divert libGL.so.1.2 to the same location for both hfglrx and nvidia, so you can do hideous preload hacks on it.
[01:00] <infinity> mjg59: ?
[01:00] <pitti> HiddenWolf: right, that's why I'm interested in how the heck they got decent drivers 
[01:00] <mjg59> infinity: That would possibly be helpful
[01:00] <mjg59> pitti: It works "acceptably" with the open drivers on my (quite slow) i855
[01:01] <pitti> nice to hear
[01:01] <HiddenWolf> pitti: throwing a lot of effort into it, and having some kind of check "if you use X or Y driver, enable, otherwise print bad luck"
[01:01] <pitti> so it seems that the radeon driver guys really did some great work recently :)
[01:01] <infinity> Yeah, it's not mind-blowingly fast here either, but it does work.  And, entertainingly, is a bit more stable than fglrx.
[01:02] <mjg59> The expose effect is nice
[01:02] <mjg59> Especially with wobbly windows
[01:02] <infinity> mjg59: Right now, they're diverted to /usr/lib/{nvidia,fglrx}/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa
[01:02] <mjg59> infinity: Thanks
[01:02] <infinity> mjg59: So, aside from the obvious path diffence, it's reasoanably standard.
[01:03] <mjg59> infinity: Can probably deal with that
[01:03] <infinity> mjg59: I could change them to both go to /usr/lib/lrm or something...
[01:04] <mjg59> infinity: If you feel like some misery :) To be honest, having two locations to check isn't too much pain
[01:04] <infinity> mjg59: Of course, this all falls apart when users install binary drivers by hand anyway (and lots of them do... ubuntu-users and the forums are filled with people doing it daily)
[01:04] <mjg59> Well, they get to keep both halves
[01:04] <mjg59> If they overwrite Mesa, well
[01:04] <infinity> mjg59: Apparently, it's more fun to download binary drivers yourself than to install ones that Just Work.
[01:04] <mjg59> Yay it's queued now
[01:05] <HiddenWolf> infinity: don't forget things like that automatix crap
[01:18] <Kamion> ogra: I can process NEW just fine, you don't need to bug Kinnison about it :)
[01:18] <ogra> Kamion, i didnt, he showed up himself ... asking :)
[01:19] <ogra> oh, and i was wrong, its about promotion to main, not NEW ... *sigh*
[01:20] <Kamion> indeed, that part I can't do
[01:21] <carlos> pitti: hi
[01:22] <carlos> pitti: could you join #launchpad?
[01:22] <Mithrandir> seb128: what's the reason for glade Recommending automake1.4?  Can we up it to something a bit more recent, like 1.9?
[01:22] <siretart> ** (gnome-power-manager:13117): WARNING **: gpm_brightness_level_update_hw: No reply within specified time
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> please devels, look at bug #6608
[01:22] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6608 in Ubuntu Dapper "Sound not enabled (muted) and sound applet showing headphone (not volume)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6608
[01:22] <siretart> anyone has a clue what this could come from?
[01:22] <jeroenvrp> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/6608
[01:22] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6608 in Ubuntu Dapper "Sound not enabled (muted) and sound applet showing headphone (not volume)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:23] <jeroenvrp> it's about the sound in dapper
[01:23] <jeroenvrp>  please look at my last comment in that bug btw
[01:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: I don't know, probably for the autogenerated code stuff, but nobody uses it
[01:23] <sebest_> mjg59,  hello, i can comfirm that for xgl and nvidia i must adjust LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/nvidia for compiz, after having linked libGL.so.1 -> libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa
[01:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: mind if I nuke it?
[01:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: not at all, does it hurt? Maybe move it as Suggests rather than dropping it?
[01:23] <mjg59> sebest_: Does LD_PRELOAD not work?
[01:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: it made me upset, does that count?  :-)  I'd just be bumping it to automake 1.9 instaead.
[01:24] <Mithrandir> instead, even
[01:25] <seb128> dunno if that works with 1.9, that would require some playing with it
[01:25] <seb128> but as said nobody uses it and I don't think we should bother
[01:25] <seb128> drop or update the version as you prefer
[01:25] <Mithrandir> ok, I'll drop it then.
[01:25] <seb128> k
[01:26] <sebest_> mjg59,  i'll test now
[01:26] <tepsipakki> mjg59: how to use LD_PRELOAD? for compiz only or also for Xgl?
[01:26] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Only for compiz
[01:27] <sebest_> tepsipakki, only for compiz
[01:27] <tepsipakki> ok, thanks
[01:28] <sebest_> mjg59, it works
[01:28] <tepsipakki> sebest: how did you use it?-)
[01:29] <sebest_> for people interested in xgl with nvidia: http://pastebin.com/555795
[01:30] <tepsipakki> sebest: thanks! Mine just crashes while writing the LD_PRE...
[01:30] <tepsipakki> ;)
[01:30] <tepsipakki> I had Xgl running from gdm
[01:31] <sebest_> with this script i have Xgl running perfectly
[01:31] <Treenaks> My compiz crashes
[01:31] <sebest_> tepsipakki, do you start it from a shell?
[01:31] <sebest_> i mean a console
[01:31] <sebest_> i stop gdm and the like
[01:31] <tepsipakki> gdm starts another server, which is Xgl, but I'll try running it directly
[01:32] <mjg59> Right, fixed compiz uploaded
[01:32] <mjg59> (Should avoid the need to LD_PRELOAD)
[01:32] <sebest_> the script that i paste bien, must be run when no other server X is running
[01:32] <sebest_> mjg59, so on next compiz update, no need for the PRELOAD?
[01:32] <mjg59> Correct
[01:33] <sebest_> i also noticed that i mustn't use the "gconf" plugin otherwise the gnome-window-decorator doesn't work
[01:33] <mjg59> If you use the gconf plugin, you have to specify modules in gconf rather than on the command line
[01:36] <sebest_> mjg59, yes, but if i combien gconf + the plugin name on the command line the decorator doesn't work
[01:36] <sebest_> this issue is documented here: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XGL
[01:36] <sebest_> s/combien/combine
[01:37] <mjg59> sebest_: Yes. If you use the gconf plugin, you have to specify modules in gconf rather than on the command line.
[01:37] <Treenaks> sebest_: I get find_mesa_visual returned NULL for visualID = 0x002c
[01:37] <Treenaks> sebest_: now
[01:38] <HiddenWolf> Good luck guys =)
[01:39] <sebest_> Treenaks, what program display this message?
[01:39] <sebest_> Xgl, compiz, the decorator?
[01:40] <infinity> mjg59: Why is compiz built against QT4?
[01:40] <Treenaks> sebest_: compiz, I think
[01:41] <Treenaks> sebest_: no, Xgl.. compiz just segfaults
[01:41] <mjg59> infinity: kde-window-decorator support
[01:41] <sebest_> Treenaks, what is your hardware?
[01:41] <infinity> mjg59: Which QT3 didn't have?
[01:41] <mjg59> infinity: It seemed happy building against QT4 and didn't seem happy building against QT3
[01:41] <infinity> Fair enough. :)
[01:41] <mjg59> I prefer not to get QT on me, so, well
[01:41] <Treenaks> sebest_: Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX (PCI-E)
[01:42] <mjg59> Treenaks: Which Xgl package are you using?
[01:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: hm.. good point
[01:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: I _was_ using a custom-built 0ubuntu1, it seems
[01:43] <sebest_> Treenaks, also make sure that you are using the nvidia proprietary drivers
[01:43] <sebest_> that dri and GLcore are commented
[01:43] <sebest_> and that glx is loaded
[01:43] <Treenaks> sebest_: ah,, commented.. good point
[01:43] <Treenaks> sebest_: those aren't commented, glx is loaded
[01:43] <sebest_> and that you have the restricted drivers installed
[01:43] <infinity> mjg59: Should xserver-xgl recommend or suggest compiz?
[01:43] <sebest_> and that the nvidia module is loaded
[01:43] <Treenaks> sebest_: it is
[01:44] <Treenaks> sebest_: I think it's the X config thing
[01:44] <mjg59> infinity: I'm not sure
[01:44] <Treenaks> infinity: it works without compiz, just not in 'l33t mode' (right?)
[01:45] <mvo> infinity: I get a conffile prompt on /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs .conf on breezy->dapper upgrade. is this a pknown problem?
[01:45] <infinity> Treenaks: Hence a suggest or recommend, not a dependency.
[01:45] <infinity> mvo: Yes, I'll fix it in my next upload.
[01:45] <mvo> infinity: thanks
[01:46] <infinity> mvo: I don't suppose you have a breezy system where you can get me dpkg's idea of the md5sum of that conffile?
[01:47] <mvo> infinity: in a couple of minutes (~30m)
[01:52] <Kyral> Morning
[02:08] <infinity> Bizarre system.
[02:08] <ogra> yes, i didnt even get karma for adding bzr branches ...
[02:08] <ogra> (that should raise it by 1000 for every branch :) )
[02:11] <infinity> I guess my mistake is always closing bugs and putting the comment in the close bit.. I'd have karma through the roof if I'd commented on every bug I closed before I closed it. :)
[02:11] <infinity> Oh well.  Here's hoping no one uses karma for anything useful.
[02:12] <Menoz> hi all! I'm trying to set up an ubuntu repository, but when I try to make an update from a client, I get (sometimes, not alwais) this error:
[02:12] <Menoz> apt-get update
[02:12] <Menoz> Err http://192.168.2.10 breezy Release.gpg
[02:12] <Menoz>   Bad header line
[02:12] <Menoz> Hit http://192.168.2.10 breezy Release
[02:12] <Menoz> Ign http://192.168.2.10 breezy/main Packages
[02:12] <Menoz> Ign http://192.168.2.10 breezy/universe Packages
[02:13] <Menoz> Hit http://192.168.2.10 breezy/main Packages
[02:13] <Menoz> Hit http://192.168.2.10 breezy/universe Packages
[02:13] <Menoz> Failed to fetch http://192.168.2.10/ubuntu/dists/breezy/Release.gpg  Bad header line
[02:13] <Menoz> Reading package lists... Done
[02:13] <Menoz> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[02:13] <Menoz> can someone hel me?
[02:17] <mvo> Kamion: are you interessted in flight3 install reports from users? 
[02:18] <ogra> Menoz, this is not a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu
[02:18] <Kamion> mvo: bug reports as usual
[02:19] <Menoz> I thought that "setting up an ubuntu repository" was a devel problem
[02:19] <Kamion> mvo: sure, as long as they don't mind many of them being marked as duplicates
[02:19] <Menoz> pardon
[02:19] <mammadori> kamion: tnx for answer, there is a livecd bugs page?
[02:19] <Kamion> mammadori: there are bug lists for each of the individual components
[02:20] <mammadori> Kamion: ubts, malone or what?
[02:20] <Kamion> stuff like unionfs and squashfs generally belongs along with kernel bugs, of course
[02:20] <Kamion> malone
[02:20] <mammadori> Kamion: tnx
[02:21] <Kamion> janimo: I meant to ask you, how come the libxfce4mcs in NEW builds libxfce4mcs-client3 and libxfce4mcs-manager3 while the current binaries in the archive are libxfce4mcs-client-2 and libxfce4mcs-manager-2 (note the dashes)?
[02:21] <Kamion> is that an error?
[02:22] <janimo> Kamion, with the new uploads I made the binaries conform to the lib packaging guid
[02:22] <janimo> and follow sonames
[02:22] <infinity> Yeah, the new ones look correct to me.
[02:22] <janimo> I talked to debian packagers and they said they'll do the same
[02:22] <Kamion> ok, if you've coordinated it then that's fine
[02:23] <janimo> btw are you handling NEW?
[02:24] <janimo> infinity for the xf packages which currently picked up 4.2 libs do I need new uploads with build1 versions to pick upu the new depends?
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: can you please accept language-pack-ka and language-pack-gnome-ka for breezy-updates? the last langpack update broke these
[02:30] <infinity> janimo: Yes, you'll obviously need new builds to build against the new libs.
[02:31] <Kamion> janimo: yes, working on NEW
[02:32] <Kamion> janimo: I was surprised to see them built against the old libs, certainly; I was expecting a build-dependency to ensure the outer packages didn't build until the inner ones were accepted
[02:32] <Kamion> pitti: any idea how I do breezy-updates at the moment? it's soyuz now, right?
[02:33] <janimo> Kamion, that's because I frogot to explicitely dep on newer libs (pending upload)
[02:33] <Kamion> right
[02:33] <Kamion> libxfce4mcs accepted anyway
[02:33] <janimo> and thought that just retriggering the builds in LP will do 
[02:33] <janimo> thanks
[02:33] <pitti> Kamion: no idea, I uploaded it to the jackass queue (as directed)
[02:34] <janimo> so islibxfce4util right? that changed binary name as well
[02:34] <janimo> I saw it built yesterday
[02:34] <Kamion> that looked ok, I processed it yesterday
[02:34] <Kinnison> Kamion: as I understand it, source uploads for -updates should go to upload.ubuntu.com
[02:34] <Kamion> or the day before, or something
[02:34] <pitti> Kamion: hm, it's not in jackass' accepted, and ISTR that somebody said they are already handled by soyuz
[02:34] <Kamion> Kinnison: yeah, but do I approve them in katie or in soyuz?
[02:34] <Kinnison> Kamion: but binaries won't be built until another rev of the codeline on drescher due to a bug which cprov has recently fixed
[02:34] <Kinnison> Kamion: the approval would be in soyuz
[02:35] <Kinnison> Kamion: katie is only used for security
[02:35] <Kamion> Kinnison: nothing in the unapproved queue though
[02:35] <Kamion> damnit I need a madison for soyuz that isn't potentially six hours out of date
[02:35] <Kinnison> Kamion: queue -R breezy -Q unapproved info \*
[02:36] <Kamion> aha; would be nice if there were some way to get a report for all distroreleases
[02:36] <Kinnison> Kamion: the queues are currently split by distrorelease (known issue, being worked on)
[02:37] <Kamion> what do I do, queue -R breezy -Q unapproved accept?
[02:40] <Kinnison> Kamion: ar
[02:41] <Kamion> is that a yes? :)
[02:42] <Kinnison> Sorry, I was unclear
[02:47] <Kamion> pitti: ok, done
[02:48] <Kamion> thanks Kinnison
[02:48] <dholbach> infinity, lamont: could you please give back opal?
[02:48] <pitti> thank you
[02:48] <Kamion> this workflow is quite good actually
[02:48] <dholbach> infinity, lamont: it's in MANUALDEPWAIT
[02:58] <Kamion> ok, any pending promotions-to-main/demotions-to-universe people need?
[02:58] <siretart> Kamion: yes, the libxine-extracodecs stuff
[02:59] <siretart> but thats a universe/multiverse demotion
[02:59] <pitti> Kamion: mysql-dfsg-4.1 to universe would be nice
[03:00] <pitti> Kamion: and mozilla, if that's already possible (enigmail built successfully, so it should actually)
[03:00] <Kamion> I don't have an anastacia yet
[03:01] <pitti> mysql was ready to go even before the soyuz switch, that shuold be ok
[03:01] <pitti> Kamion: oh, current tool doesn't do sanity checking?
[03:02] <ogra> Kamion, python-gst0.10 indeed :)
[03:02] <Kamion> pitti: no
[03:02] <Kamion> ogra: cprov did that one
[03:03] <pitti> Kamion: rdepends looks good, though
[03:04] <Kamion> pitti: including libmysqlclient14{,-dev}?
[03:04] <pitti> Kamion: yes, mysql is safe
[03:04] <pitti> Kamion: I meant, rdepends for mozilla-dev
[03:05] <Kamion> I might see if I can hack together a really crappy version of anastacia that doesn't need the archive database
[03:05] <ogra> Kamion, ah, nice :)
[03:09] <Kinnison> mjg59: I've been sorting out the acpid bugs, I'm down to two, one of which I'm unconvinced is a bug, the other is the adm permissions thing
[03:10] <mjg59> Kinnison: adm permissions?
[03:10] <Kinnison> mjg59: One solution to the "logfile should be group 'adm'" bug is presented in http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilver/acpid-9-10.diff which adds a logfilegroup argument to acpid which defaults to 'adm' and which fchown()s the log on acpid startup
[03:10] <mjg59> Ah
[03:10] <mjg59> Ok
[03:10] <Kinnison> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acpid/+bug/28352
[03:10] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28352 in acpid "log file should be gid: adm" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:11] <Kinnison> Do you think this is a good solution?
[03:11] <mjg59> I'd have thought the ideal solution would be to shift to syslog, but...
[03:12] <Kinnison> hmm, not sure that'd be neat. would syslog automatically provide a split out logfile?
[03:15] <Kamion> no, if you made it facility daemon then it'd go to daemon.log though
[03:16] <Kinnison> currently it's quite nice to have the acpid log split out
[03:16] <Kamion> hmm, I find that a hindrance often
[03:16] <Kinnison> Kamion: Oh?
[03:16] <Kamion> when trying to figure out where the heck something logs, the fewer choices the better
[03:16] <Keybuk> mvo: I thought you fixed update-notifier? :)
[03:17] <Kamion> and with syslog, then it often ends up in multiple places (e.g. /var/log/syslog as well as everywhere else), which is good for findability
[03:18] <Kamion> but it depends exactly how verbose acpid can be, I guess; for example it's pretty obvious that apache logs should be split out
[03:18] <Kinnison> It can be quite verbose
[03:19] <Kamion> the question is whether acpid is more like dhcpd, sshd, smartd - or more like apache, exim, innd
[03:19] <Kamion> IMO
[03:19] <Kinnison> (in batches of 15 lines or so, every 15 seconds or so)
[03:19] <Kamion> urgh, that's loads
[03:19] <Kinnison> depending on the battery states etc, charging vs. discharging etc
[03:19] <Kamion> is that in some special debug mode?
[03:20] <Kinnison> no, that's standard logging as we do in the package currently
[03:20] <mvo> Keybuk: fixed what in update-notifier? the "it eats my cpu" problem?
[03:20] <Kamion> ok, in that case I can see that it should be a separate log
[03:20] <Kamion> file
[03:20] <Kamion> I'd also argue it should be made less obnoxiously verbose by default though
[03:21] <Kinnison> heh
[03:21] <Kinnison> It's not consistent
[03:21] <Kinnison> E.g. since I booted this morning I've had ca. 60k lines
[03:21] <Kinnison> It depends on when events come in basically
[03:21] <Kinnison> I can certainly see an argument for simplifying and shrinking the default log output
[03:21] <Kinnison> However it still deserves its separate logfile in the short term I feel
[03:23] <Kinnison> I'll send 0ubuntu10 to the archive and file a bug on simplifying the log output
[03:25] <Kinnison> Umm, 1ubuntu10
[03:25] <Kinnison> I know what I mean, oh yes
[03:26] <spacey> Diziet: ping
[03:33] <Kamion> siretart: libxine-extracodecs | 1.1.1+ubuntu1-1 | dapper/multiverse | amd64, i386, powerpc
[03:34] <Kamion> siretart: it was that way already - is there something else that needs to be moved?
[03:34] <siretart> Kamion: seems to be sorted out, I will as slomo again
[03:34] <siretart> Kamion: he asked me some days ago to write an email to you/elmo because of that
[03:36] <Kamion> pitti: mysql-dfsg-4.1 demoted I think, change-override.py is, er, rather quiet by default
[03:36] <pitti> thanks
[03:37] <pitti> Kamion: what do we do about mozilla? wait for your anastacia?
[03:38] <siretart> Kamion: ok, sorry for bugging about xine, everythings allright about that.
[03:38] <Kamion> wait for *an* anastacia if not mine, anyway
[03:38] <Kamion> siretart: ok, no problem
[03:39] <Kinnison> what did anastacia do?
[03:40] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[03:40] <ogra> throw out that file above
[03:41] <siretart> Kamion: ah, if you have madison at hand, could you please tell me, in what component the binary package 'libxine1c2' is?
[03:41] <Kinnison> ogra: is that essentially a diff between the component overrides and germinate's output?
[03:42] <siretart> Kamion: If it is still in universe, it needs to go to multiverse
[03:42] <ogra> Kinnison, i dont know the internals ... i just know the output ...
[03:42] <lamont> Kinnison: do we have a buildd-mgmt ui yet?
[03:42] <Kamion> libxine1c2 | 1.1.1+ubuntu1-1 | dapper/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[03:42] <Kinnison> lamont: ask someone working on soyuz :-)
[03:42] <Kinnison> lamont: E.g. cprov
[03:43] <lamont> right.  my bad
[03:43] <Kinnison> although he just went for lunch :-)
[03:43] <Kamion> siretart: moved to multiverse
[03:43] <Kamion> Kinnison: diff> yes
[03:44] <Kinnison> Kamion: right
[03:44] <Kamion> although phrased as human-reviewable instructions of what to do to bring the overrides into sync with germinate
[03:44] <siretart> Kamion: thanks!
[03:44] <Kinnison> Kamion: did anastacia work from projectB or from the archive?
[03:44] <Kamion> Kinnison: projectB
[03:44] <Kinnison> :-(
[03:45] <Kamion> right, I was going to have a brief look at temporarily porting it to use Packages/Sources, but I think I have too much else to do
[03:51] <dholbach> janimo: is the ruby thing on revu something xfce-related?
[03:53] <janimo> dholbach, nope
[03:53] <janimo> oh wait what ruby thing??
[03:54] <janimo> you mean lua? I don;t remember any ruby package
[03:54] <dholbach> janimo: ah no, sorry *lua*
[03:54] <janimo> yeah the other obscure lil language :)
[03:54] <dholbach> :-p
[03:54] <janimo> well I mean to do some lua bindings to xfce in the future so it's indirectly related
[03:54] <janimo> it'd be nice to have gtk-lua in dapper though
[03:55] <dholbach> janimo: Kinnison will be delighted.
[03:55] <janimo> I suppose :)
[03:56] <janimo> dholbach, do you have time for REVU besides doing the gnome uploads? :)
[03:56] <janimo> gotta sell me some time management tips
[03:57] <dholbach> janimo: GNOME upload is done. bug triage is pending. but today it REVU day, so... :-)
[03:58] <janimo> I actually enjoyed those lua-gtk bindings, I started learning gtk using them since the C api is too messy at first
[03:58] <janimo> because you are? :)
[03:58] <pitti> Maintainer: Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers@debian.org>
[03:59] <janimo> oh that would also mean Ian is in love with firefox ;)\
[04:00] <dholbach> janimo: He loves it in a very special way. :-)
[04:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: something's wrong with debconffilter startup after merging that espresso change
[04:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it starts up user-setup on the autopartitioning page
[04:05] <Mithrandir> not with the latest merge
[04:06] <Mithrandir> revno: 729
[04:06] <Mithrandir> committer: Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@golem>
[04:06] <Mithrandir> branch nick: trunk
[04:06] <Mithrandir> timestamp: Wed 2006-02-15 15:24:21 +0100
[04:06] <Mithrandir> message: more named constants
[04:06] <Mithrandir> that one fixes it for me
[04:06] <Kamion> I have that
[04:08] <Mithrandir> hmm, weird
[04:08] <Kamion> also you don't use BREADCRUMB_* anywhere
[04:09] <Mithrandir> then your merge is botched
[04:09] <Kamion> bugger
[04:09] <Mithrandir> what does gtkui.py:192 look like for you?
[04:09] <Mithrandir>             if self.current_page == STEP_USER_INFO:
[04:09] <Mithrandir> is what I have.
[04:09] <Kamion> yes, same
[04:10] <Mithrandir> uh, sorry.-
[04:10] <Mithrandir> mea culpa, I shelved
[04:10] <Mithrandir> and forgot to unshelve
[04:11] <Mithrandir> that is, something ate the .rej
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ok, pushed, same location
[04:17] <Kamion> re-merged, debconffiltering still screwy
[04:17] <Kamion> I'll investigate
[04:18] <Mithrandir> it works for me, so.
[04:18] <Mithrandir> try rsyncing down the tree and diff-ing them?
[04:19] <Kamion> :q
[04:19] <Kamion> er
[04:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you chmod go+r debian/changelog espresso/frontend/gtkui.py in your branch on rookery please?
[04:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: done
[04:27] <janimo> Kamion, a bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper gives 404 on a specific weave did something change lately?
[04:27] <janimo> I haven't merged the seeds in a while. Both pull and merge give the same error
[04:28] <janimo> and pull corrupted a working dir
[04:28] <janimo> I am using a 0.8pre from jbailey's daily but of a few weeks ago if that helps
[04:32] <Kamion> janimo: try disabling your HTTP proxy if you're using one
[04:33] <Kamion> a local bzr get on people.ubuntu.com works fine
[04:34] <janimo> Kamion, I have tried a get with bzr 0.7 (dapper version) and it works, let's see about the merge. sorry for the noise, it may be some bzr incompatibility
[04:34] <janimo> and the proxy thing I recall giving problems earlier but only by not showing updates not corrupting stuff
[04:35] <janimo> I guess there's no way of fixing an archvive on which bzr check reports errors
[04:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not done
[04:38] <Kamion> cjwatson@rookery:/home/tfheen/public_html/bzr/espresso/trunk$ find ! -perm +044
[04:38] <Kamion> ./debian/changelog
[04:38] <Kamion> ./espresso/frontend/gtkui.py
[04:46] <Kinnison> Kamion: that's a known bzr merge bug
[04:46] <Kinnison> Kamion: the conflict resolution sometimes buggers up the perms
[04:47] <Kinnison> mjg59: As a techboard person can you please set up a poll on ubuntu-dev about changelog formats for closing bugs in malone?
[04:47] <Kinnison> mjg59: the formats we've come up with so far are: 'closes: malone#nnnn' 'malone: #nnnn' and 'launchpad: #nnnn'
[04:48] <dholbach> and please include the changelog of the upload as a comment in the bug! :)
[04:49] <Kamion> Kinnison: well, I need it fixed manually
[04:51] <Kamion> change-override scares me
[04:51] <seb128> Kinnison: I do use "Ubuntu: #nnnnn" :)
[04:52] <seb128> hum, I've to run for half an hour, bbl
[04:53] <Kinnison> seb128: Hmm
[04:55] <Kinnison> mjg59: any ideas about bug 31251
[04:55] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31251 in gnome-power-manager "[Dapper Flight 3]  The consumption of energy of the monitor with use of the battery is not reduced" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31251
[05:00] <mjg59> Kinnison: Brightness change should be automatic on ac switch
[05:00] <jono> hi all
[05:00] <mjg59> We don't have any code to control that on Compaqs
[05:00] <mjg59> jono: You've got your Xgl
[05:01] <jono> mjg59, yeah Treenaks was just saying :)
[05:01] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'm getting this when I run Xgl:
[05:01] <Treenaks> No matching visual for __GLcontextMode with visual class = 1 (32774), nplanes = 32
[05:01] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah, somebody else had that. No idea why.
[05:01] <Treenaks> and any attempt to draw on it gets me: X Error of failed request:  BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)
[05:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ping? help
[05:03] <Treenaks> mjg59: oh, and when I get the BadAlloc, the Xgl window closes and re-opens, and I get this message: 
[05:03] <jono> I am still getting initd errors when I boot dapper in vmware
[05:03] <Treenaks> mjg59: find_mesa_visual returned NULL for visualID = 0x002d
[05:03] <jono> I submitted a bug some time ago, but it still seems to plague dapper
[05:03] <Kinnison> mjg59: is that no code *yet* or no code at all expected?
[05:04] <mjg59> Kinnison: It's "I don't have this hardware and have no idea how to speak to it"
[05:05] <Kinnison> mjg59: fair enough, thanks
[05:08] <Kinnison> There, bug 31251 has a slightly better title/description now
[05:08] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31251 in gnome-power-manager "Lack programmatic support for brightness adjustment of compaq laptops" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31251
[05:09] <Kinnison> I think I'll pass it over to hal too
[05:09] <Kinnison> pitti: merry xmas
[05:09] <mjg59> Kinnison: Yeah, either hal or the kernel
[05:11] <Kinnison> I've given it to hal pending any better idea
[05:43] <Kinnison> seb128: I'm trying to track down what puts gnome-power-manager into the default session
[05:43] <Kinnison> seb128: any ideas?
[05:47] <Kinnison> mjg59: I have some acpi-support changes. Do you want them or should I upload?
[05:48] <Riddell> mvo: did you upload app-install-data?
[05:49] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[05:49] <mvo> Binary: app-install-data gnome-app-install
[05:49] <mvo> Architecture: source
[05:49] <mvo> Version: 0.1.11
[05:49] <mvo> the package is NEW so it may take a bit
[05:50] <mjg59> Kinnison: I trust you
[05:50] <Riddell> mvo: yep, was just wondering why it wasn't on https://launchpad.net/people/mvo/+packages
[05:50] <Riddell> I'm sure I've seen other NEW packages on those pages
[05:50] <Kinnison> mjg59: mostly it's s.xscreensaver.gnome-screensaver.
[05:51] <mjg59> Kinnison: Uhm. Shouldn't be necessary (and probably won't work properly)
[05:51] <mjg59> gnome-screensaver-command needs dbus
[05:51] <mjg59> So you need to set the dbus bus address variables
[05:51] <mvo> Riddell: it's in there under "uploaded" 
[05:51] <Kinnison> mjg59: Arse, I'd have found that the moment I tested, but I hadn't got that far yet
[05:51] <mjg59> Which are "awkward" to get hold of
[05:51] <Kamion> mvo: *clicketyclick* not any more
[05:51] <mjg59> Kinnison: I'd suggest just dropping the screensaver stuff
[05:51] <mvo> Kamion: thanks :)
[05:51] <Kinnison> mjg59: make the tosh lock button useless
[05:51] <mjg59> Let the user agents deal with it
[05:52] <Kinnison> mjg59: unless I can make it make a fake keypress I guess
[05:52] <mjg59> Kinnison: No, that ought to be generating a KEY_COFFEE keycode now
[05:52] <mjg59> (Did I not upload that? Bad me)
[05:52] <seb128> Kinnison: does it put a .desktop to /usr/share/autostart?
[05:53] <Kinnison> seb128: aha, it does, thanks
[05:53] <Riddell> it would be very cool if those +packages pages had build status on them
[05:53] <seb128> Kinnison: np
[05:53] <Kinnison> mjg59: I'll do that then
[05:53] <mjg59> Kinnison: Then we need gnome-settings-daemon to do the right thing
[05:54] <Kinnison> mjg59: aye
[05:56] <dholbach> lamont, infinity: could you please give back opal
[06:02] <Kinnison> mjg59: bizarrely acpi_fakekey 152 (coffee) doesn't result in an event which xev can spot
[06:04] <robertj> I did a sudo apt-get install pbuilder && sudo pbuilder create and it was doing good when I went to bed, but  I just checked in on it and it says that it has unmet deps
[06:05] <mjg59> Kinnison: Ah. KEY_COFFEE probably doesn't appear in the default keymap.
[06:06] <mjg59> Kinnison: Minor kernel hackage required - alternatively, setkeycode a random scancode to it for now, and see if that works
[06:07] <Kinnison> mjg59: recommended keycode to map it to?
[06:07] <mjg59> Kinnison: The keycode has to be KEY_COFFEE
[06:08] <mjg59> As far as scancodes go - one that's not currently mapped to anything?
[06:08] <Kinnison> the scancode is key_coffee
[06:08] <mjg59> No
[06:08] <Kinnison> assuming i'm reading this right
[06:08] <mjg59> That's the keycode
[06:08] <mjg59> The scancode is what comes off the keyboard
[06:08] <seb128> elmo: could you sync gtk-doc (from incoming)?
[06:08] <mdz> has anyone else seen a problem where gnome-screensaver activation results in screen corruption?
[06:08] <mdz> permanent corruption, even
[06:09] <mjg59> mdz: No, but does it only happen with 3D screensavers?
[06:09] <Kinnison> mjg59: KEY_Q == 16, which is the *scancode* for the Q key
[06:09] <Kinnison> mjg59: according to showkey -s anyway
[06:10] <mjg59> Kinnison: That may be true for low-numbered keys
[06:10] <Kinnison> aah
[06:10] <mjg59> It's the higher ones, where there isn't a 1:1 mapping, that are the problem
[06:10] <Kinnison> right
[06:11] <mdz> mjg59: unknown; I go to sleep, wake up, and it's fucked
[06:11] <mdz> on my desktop (radeon RV100 QY)
[06:15] <mjg59> mdz: Ah. Hm.
[06:15] <mjg59> No, haven't seen that. My suspicion would be X.
[06:17] <sebest_> does compiz could work without xgl, but with just composiste accelerated by exa?
[06:17] <mdz> it presumably came in with some other random stuff in 7.0.0-0ubuntu1
[06:17] <mjg59> sebest_: No
[06:18] <sebest_> mjg59, compiz is only for opengl compositing?
[06:18] <mjg59> sebest_: Yes
[06:20] <sebest_> what exa will be usefull for? basic compositing (transparency / shadow)?
[06:23] <Kinnison> mjg59: This is rather odd then, KEY_COFFEE generates nothing, not scan or keycode on its own, and I can't work out therefore what the kernel would want from me in order to map it to a keycode
[06:24] <mjg59> Kinnison: Just any scancode that currently isn't used
[06:24] <mjg59> The problem is that the kernel drops keycodes on the floor if it doesn't think the currently attached keyboard could generate them
[06:25] <mjg59> (Which seems mad, but)
[06:25] <Kinnison> mjg59: Aye, but my issue is that I can't work out how to find the scancode which I need to map
[06:25] <Kinnison> mjg59: given that converting 152 to hex didn't work
[06:25] <Kinnison> mjg59: nor did prefixing that with e0
[06:26] <mjg59> Kinnison: Really. Any scancode.
[06:26] <mjg59> As long as it's not currently used by anything, you can use any of them
[06:26] <mjg59> Nothing's actually going to generate that scancode
[06:26] <Kinnison> so I just pick J-random scancode out of my arse
[06:26] <Kinnison> right
[06:26] <mjg59> We just need to get the keycode into the kernel's idea of what the keyboard can generate
[06:28] <Kinnison> right, okay, so having done that, it maps to X keycode 146
[06:28] <Kinnison> which has no sym
[06:28] <mjg59> Yes, that's fine
[06:28] <mjg59> It should now also be appearing on dbus, but that's less of an issue
[06:29] <Keybuk> coo ... the Windows XP setup doesn't know about SATA ... "Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on atapi" (twice)
[06:29] <Kinnison> bwahaha, if I set the relevant keycode in gconf to 0x92 (screensaver in gnome-settings-daemon) then I can lock screen
[06:30] <Kinnison> mjg59: right, should acpi-support pluck a scancode out of its arse to use or is this a 'file a bug on benc' situation?
[06:30] <mjg59> Kinnison: There you go
[06:30] <mjg59> Kinnison: Iz kernel boog
[06:30] <Kinnison> yup, okay, I'll move on, ta
[06:31] <Keybuk> mjg59: while you're here ... any particular opinion on the increasing number of "I have a system with two cards, the drivers for which conflict" bugs?
[06:32] <Keybuk> ie. a sound card which ALSA can support, and an onboard sound chip which only OSS can
[06:32] <Keybuk> or a sound card and a TV tuner
[06:32] <mjg59> Keybuk: Why's that a problem?
[06:32] <mjg59> ALSA and OSS can coexist
[06:32] <mjg59> (I believe)
[06:33] <Keybuk> loading OSS kinda kicks out ALSA's OSS emulation <g>
[06:33] <BenC> mjg59: but there's the case where two sound cards use the same "chip id", but one only works with the oss driver, and the other only with the alsa driver
[06:33] <mjg59> Oh, right
[06:33] <mjg59> Fix the ALSA driver :p
[06:34] <BenC> or one is part of a tv-tuner where the alsa/oss driver is built into the same "video+sound" driver
[06:34] <mjg59> No, I don't think there's a good answer in that case
[06:34] <BenC> yeah, it's a matter of too many ppl working on the same thing, they just need to collaborate and consolidate
[06:40] <sivang> re
[06:40] <sivang> mjg59: how is xgl ? :)
[06:40] <mjg59> sivang: Fine
[06:41] <mjg59> Kinnison: You suck :p
[06:42] <Kinnison> mjg59: I do?
[06:42] <mjg59> Kinnison: s/unstable/dapper/
[06:42] <Kinnison> mjg59: what have I buggered up now?
[06:42] <Kinnison> mjg59: d'oh
[06:43] <Kinnison> sodding thing
[06:43] <sivang> heh
[06:44] <seb128> Kamion: volume.label = '/ for ubuntu' (string) ... is that the installer setting such label?
[06:44] <seb128> Kamion: is there some case for the label? we have #31443 saying that "ubuntu" should be "Ubuntu"
[06:46] <Kamion> seb128: I certainly don't remember branding that
[06:46] <Kamion> which would have been necessary
[06:46] <Kamion> the installer does allow the user to enter it by hand though
[06:46] <Kamion> seb128: oh, it could be generated from the hostname, which is lower-case ubuntu
[06:48] <Kinnison> mjg59: bug 31534
[06:48] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31534 in linux-source-2.6.15 "KEY_COFFEE needs a scancode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31534
[06:51] <Kamion> seb128: I can't find it in hal, but the hostname would be my guess
[06:52] <HiddenWolf> key_coffee?
[06:52] <Kinnison> Kamion: what time is the distro team meeting tomorrow?
[06:53] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: "Press the coffee key"
[06:53] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: what is a coffee key?
[06:53] <HiddenWolf> is it an expression I missed out on?
[06:53] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: a key that gets you coffee?
[06:53] <Kamion> Kinnison: 1400 I believe
[06:53] <jono> hi all
[06:53] <Keybuk> it's the moniker for lock-screen/take-a-break/etc. keys usually
[06:53] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: pc's make coffee?
[06:53] <Kamion> Kinnison: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce@?
[06:53] <HiddenWolf> ah
[06:53] <HiddenWolf> thank you Keybuk
[06:54] <jono> Kamion, any kind of loose ETA when a flight CD will be released with the GUI installer?
[06:54] <Kamion> Kinnison: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000078.html
[06:54] <jono> I need to write the installation chapter sometime soon
[06:54] <Kinnison> Kamion: right, I didn't know that was the "Dapper status update meeting"
[06:54] <Kinnison> Kamion: thanks
[06:54] <seb128> Kamion: the bug is #31443 and the guy installed with hoary
[06:54] <Kamion> jono: this week, but if you write a book based on how it looks now I have no sympathy ;)
[06:55] <seb128> Kamion: it was in case you have an idea from where the label comes
[06:55] <sivang> jono: ubuntu hecks? 
[06:55] <mdz> jono: I highly recommend waiting for it to be written before writing about it
[06:56] <jono> Kamion, mdz, totally agree, but the deadline of the end of the month is looming - any idea (approx) when the UI will be settled?
[06:56] <Kamion> as fast as I can
[06:57] <mdz> jono: UI freeze is 9 March
[06:57] <jono> I understand
[06:57] <Kamion> UI freeze is the deadline, see wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[06:57] <jono> 9 march
[06:57] <mdz> jono: but given the priority of this work, we'll easily make exceptions for it if necessary
[06:57] <jono> I will talk to my publisher
[06:57] <jono> mdz, understandable
[06:57] <jono> sivang, this is the Official Ubuntu book
[06:57] <mdz> jono: it really isn't wise to put this in a book until dapper
[06:57] <sivang> jono: ah :)
[06:57] <siretart> Kinnison: wtf is a Coffee key?
[06:58] <Kinnison> siretart: as keybuk said -- 'tis the screenlock key
[06:58] <jono> because its the official guide, I really need to cover the new dapper UI, but there is no way other than just waiting for it
[06:58] <jono> I know Kamion works the day of a thousand men :)
[06:58] <siretart> hrhr
[06:58] <Burgwork> jono, having fun working under the gun?
[06:58] <jono> Burgwork, its interesting
[06:59] <jono> Keybuk, lunch this week?
[06:59] <Keybuk> ya know, I think Ubuntu should use the same model of Region/Language/Keyboard option selection that the Windows XP installer does ... our "two questions" is just too few, we should have eight hidden options amongst three different dialog boxes like Windows has
[06:59] <Keybuk> jono: I don't see why not, sure
[07:01] <jono> Keybuk, cool, I am free tomorrow and friday, your choice :)
[07:04] <Keybuk> jono: friday would be best
[07:05] <Kinnison> seb128: the autostart .desktop files -- are they considered on every startup, or just the first one before you have a session?
[07:05] <seb128> Kinnison: every login
[07:05] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks
[07:05] <seb128> Kinnison: that's why the g-v-m one uses "--sm-disable"
[07:06] <Kinnison> seb128: yeah, which is why g-p-m uses --sm-disable
[07:06] <Kinnison> seb128: only --sm-disable breaks g-p-m
[07:06] <Kinnison> seb128: because at one point it tries to ask the session to present a logout dialog and explodes
[07:07] <seb128> ah ..
[07:07] <seb128> we can use the old method other way
[07:07] <Kinnison> How do you mean?
[07:07] <seb128> don't ship a .desktop and modify the default session by patching gnome-session
[07:07] <seb128> that was the only way until one month ago
[07:07] <seb128> (the autostart stuff is new)
[07:08] <Kinnison> I.E. a second startup is ignored
[07:08] <seb128> /usr/share/gnome/default.session
[07:08] <seb128> that too
[07:08] <Kinnison> seb128: which do you think is better?
[07:08] <Kinnison> personally I'd rather keep the crack inside the g-p-m package
[07:08] <seb128> fixing g-p-m to work with --sm-disable
[07:09] <Kinnison> hmm, I can look at that, but it has to as the session to present its logout dialog
[07:09] <Kinnison> I don't think you can do that in sm-disable mode
[07:09] <seb128> what kind of dialog does it want to run?
[07:09] <Kinnison> the logoutish one
[07:09] <seb128> you should not get random question to log off
[07:09] <Kinnison> currently it gets the six-icon logoff one
[07:09] <Kinnison> it's on power-button press
[07:10] <seb128> ah, ok
[07:10] <seb128> hum
[07:11] <Kinnison> it copes with being run more than once in the session cleanly
[07:11] <seb128> so just drop the --sm-disable from the .desktop
[07:11] <Kinnison> so I propose to remove the --sm-disable from the .desktop
[07:11] <Kinnison> cool you agree
[07:11] <Kinnison> :-)
[07:11] <seb128> :)
[07:11] <Kinnison> thanks seb
[07:11] <jono> Keybuk, cool
[07:12] <Keybuk> jono: usual place, 1pm?
[07:12] <seb128> np
[07:12] <jono> Keybuk, sounds good :)
[07:40] <shaya> mjg59: you here?
[07:40] <mjg59> shaya: Hi
[07:40] <shaya> rgb path in Xgl is wrong
[07:40] <shaya> your Xgl is searching for /usr/share/X11/rgb
[07:41] <shaya> ubuntu doesn't store it there
[07:41] <shaya> gives me this error on startup
[07:41] <shaya> Couldn't open RGB_DB '/usr/share/X11/rgb'
[07:41] <shaya> emacs refuses to run (for instance) now.
[07:41] <shaya> restarting X with a hack to make it work for now.
[07:42] <mjg59> shaya: Ok. Please file a bug.
[07:42] <shaya> ok, just wanted to explain the issue, figured might be clearer than in email
[07:42] <HiddenWolf> mjg59:  quick question, why does compiz depend on both gtk and qt? is it needed?
[07:43] <jono> mjg59, good work on the xgl server in dapper btw :)
[07:44] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Yes
[07:44] <mjg59> jono: Ta
[07:44] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: hm. :) someone was already asking for an -gtk and -qt version
[07:45] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: I know
[07:45] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: But right now, anyone who is excessively concerned about that sort of thing really shouldn't be running it
[07:45] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: i'll do some reading, Was just wondering why it's needed. Thanks anyway, I won't bug you. :)
[07:49] <mdke> mdz, just saw your email re: flash - fyi there are loads of screenshots on the wiki page, not sure how useful they can be tho
[07:50] <mjg59> BenC: Lock the screen
 it's the moniker for lock-screen/take-a-break/etc. keys usually
[07:51] <BenC> mjg59: as in "taking a coffee break, lock my screen"?
[07:51] <mjg59> BenC: The actual problem is that the input layer won't pass through keycodes unless they're in its idea of a keymap
[07:51] <BenC> ah
[07:51] <mjg59> Which is a one line fix
[07:51] <mjg59> Hang on
[07:52] <HiddenWolf> mjg59: regarding xgl, wouldn't it be a good idea to set up a wikipage with known to work, known to break, this is how you do it safely kind of info?
[07:53] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: It would, yes
[07:53] <HiddenWolf> I'll see if I can come up with something.
[07:54] <HiddenWolf> Guess that'd take a few questions off you as well.
[07:54] <mdke> mdz, also I guess it might be worth thinking about translation ASAP?
[07:55] <mjg59> BenC: line 77 of drivers/input/input.c
[07:55] <mdz> mdke: yes, that's part of what I was trying to suss out: how many screenshots they needed for each sequence, and what they should look like
[07:55] <mdz> mdke: the longer term strategy is for them to do their own screenshots, since they'll know what they need and what can be animated
[07:55] <mdke> mdz, sure. well if those are helpful, then great, if not, they can make more, or we can help
[07:57] <mjg59> BenC: Basically, the test_bit code isn't needed in that line (AFAICT)
[07:58] <mdke> mdz, for some screenshots it might help if we do them, or tell them how to work around bugs which affects the screenshot
[07:58] <mdz> mdke: sure
[08:00] <mdke> mdz, do you think translation can wait a while?
[08:02] <mdz> mdke: I think we need to finalize the screenshots and text before we start translating
[08:09] <mdke> mdz, sure, before we start translating. I was just thinking about how we are gonna go about it
[08:09] <mdke> anyhow, it's down the road
[08:13] <BenC> mjg59: ok, thanks
[08:13] <psusi> is it just me or is the nav bar on the fridge messed up today?  and where do you report bugs on the web site?
[08:18] <jpatrick> psusi: been like that for ages
[08:21] <psusi> the nav bar is being rednered down at the bottom of the screen rather than the top... it's floating over top of the test plans and hug day article... it wasn't like that the other day
[08:22] <jpatrick> it's been like that for two weeks now (over here)
[08:23] <psusi> wow... so where do we report this bug to get it fixed? ;)
[08:23] <psusi> not malone right?
[08:35] <Nafallo> psusi: try fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:36] <Nafallo> (no need to subscribe)
[08:36] <psusi> anyone know what the difference is between this xgl everyone is talking about and the normal X server?  is it supposed to be faster?  how?
[08:36] <psusi> Nafallo: ahh... ok...
[08:36] <Kinnison> ciau
[08:37] <Nafallo> X GL, everything is GL-rendered if I understood it right.
[08:37] <Treenaks> but at the moment, for me, it just crashes (but that might be my weird video driver ;))
[08:44] <HiddenWolf> psusi: this is not a support channel
[08:47] <psusi> HiddenWolf: I'm aware of that... and not asking for support... trying to learn more about how X works internally
[08:48] <HiddenWolf> psusi: you're one of a million at the moment. try #xgl
[08:49] <psusi> I've been wondering for some time why X seems to be so slow at repainting the uncovered areas of the screen while you drag a window... even with accelerated drivers...
[08:50] <psusi> you'd think DRI would take care of taht
[09:06] <Burgwork> Kinnison, did you just upload support for those random keys in Toshiba?
[09:07] <HiddenWolf> * Kinnison heads off
 ciau
[09:15] <sistpoty> motu-meeting just about to start in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:19] <seb128> jordi: around?
[09:20] <seb128> hum
[09:20] <dholbach> hey Mitario
[09:20] <Mitario> dholbach, heya
[09:20] <seb128> how is alsa-utils supposed to set volume on startup? using udev?
[09:21] <sistpoty> mjg59: do you mind if I touch xserver-xgl?
[09:22] <mdke> dholbach, if you're on Ekiga this evening, how about giving it a more user friendly menu entry? I can file a bug if you prefer
[09:26] <dholbach> mdke: might make sense to file it upstream
[09:26] <mdke> yes, but it would be a string change :/
[09:27] <dholbach> yeah, i guess this will mean collecting translations on our own (like in breezy)
[09:27] <Burgwork> dholbach, upstream must be interested and it is not too late in the release cycle to change that
[09:28] <dholbach> Burgwork: i guess they'd very much be interested (they're just in string freeze)
[09:28] <Burgwork> dholbach, yes, but not hard yet
[09:29] <mdke> what's a decent menu entry? I can't think of anything good
[09:29] <sivang> mjg59: so are the xgl packages ready fro testing?
[09:29] <dholbach> can we please have a #ubuntu-xgl or something?
[09:29] <dholbach> :)
[09:30] <sivang> dholbach: it was only one quesiton, honest, with a yes / no answer :)
[09:30] <HiddenWolf> sivang: they're not ready, but people are testing by the masses :)
[09:30] <sivang> HiddenWolf: join #ubuntu-xgl
[09:30] <HiddenWolf> sivang: yeah, but you must be the 1001st person today to ask something xgl-related. :)
[09:30] <dholbach> sivang: yeah, like all the other yes/no questions :)))
[09:33] <mdke> dholbach, so what's the verdict on Ekiga? upstream and hope for astring freeze exception, or Ubuntu?
[09:34] <dholbach> mdke: we can do both.
[09:34] <mdke> ok, i'll do the bug upstream, if there isn't one already
[09:35] <dholbach> mdke: If we're going to include our own string and translations, we have 8-9 weeks time 
[09:35] <mdke> dholbach, Burgwork, any ideas for a good menu entry?
[09:35] <dholbach> mdke: i had a quick look, doesn't seem so
[09:36] <Burgwork> mdke, thinking
[09:36] <dholbach> Ekiga VoIP <something>? (since that's something everybody understands nowadays)?
[09:37] <sivang> mjg59: if you want to join us, you're welcome :)
[09:37] <Burgwork> not a bad fallback
[09:37] <dholbach> but maybe that's too techspeak for some
[09:37] <Burgwork> voip is now being advertised on TV in Canada
[09:37] <mdke> i think a bit tecky
[09:37] <mdke> Ekiga Video Conferencing?
[09:37] <Burgwork> ie, they are using the term voip
[09:37] <mdke> does it do video?
[09:37] <dholbach> :-)
[09:37] <zul> Burgwork: it has been for a while..
[09:38] <Burgwork> zul, yes, but I was mentioning that they are using the term voip
[09:38] <mdke> telephone and video conferencing is a bit long
[09:38] <Burgwork> so we even need the name Ekiga in there?
[09:39] <Mithrandir> ekiga internet phone
[09:39] <Mithrandir> or just internet phone
[09:39] <seb128> what is wrong with the new name?
[09:39] <seb128> upstream had that discussion
[09:39] <mdke> seb128, it's just "Ekiga"
[09:39] <Burgwork> seb128, nothing, it just doesn't say anything
[09:39] <seb128> they picked "Ekiga Softphone"
[09:39] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329622
[09:39] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 329622 in general "Change name on the GNOME applications menu" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]  
[09:39] <mdke> oh, that's an improvement
[09:40] <mdke> although dubious use of english :)
[09:40] <Burgwork> better to followup upstream, as it gets us their translations
[09:40] <seb128> better suggestion is welcome
[09:40] <Burgwork> and softphone isn't bad
[09:40] <seb128> but read the upstream bug
[09:40] <seb128> they don't want misleading term
[09:40] <seb128> not too many words for it
[09:41] <mdke> for me it's fixed the bug, np
[09:41] <seb128> cool
[09:41] <Mithrandir> softphone is a terrible word, IMO.  Internet phone explains it better -- it's obvious that's it's not a hardware phone
[09:41] <seb128> no need of internet to use it though
[09:41] <Burgwork> seb128, umm
[09:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: true, but if you have a pbx you'll generally know it, I'd imagine.
[09:42] <seb128> anyway if you want to argue I've pointed the GNOME bug
[09:42] <seb128> that's the right place for that :)
[09:42] <Mithrandir> sure, and I can't really be bothered to argue with upstream.  Less work to just ignore it for me.
[09:43] <seb128> I don't care enough to argue neither
[09:43] <Mithrandir> heh :-)
[09:44] <Burgwork> softphone gets more hits than internet telephone
[09:44] <Burgwork> http://www.phonegnome.com/store/detailSOFTG.html <-- funny
[09:44] <psusi> Mithrandir: have you heard anything more from upstream about the header conflicts in e2fsprogs that prevented defrag from building?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> psusi: no, haven't heard anything.  I guess I should prod them again
[09:46] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: but will more people understand softphone or internet telephone?
[09:46] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, no idea
[09:46] <psusi> hrm...
[09:47] <Mithrandir> there's no way to translate softphone into Norwegian for instance either.  You'd have to translate it to software telephone (programvaretelefon)
[09:50] <dholbach> lamont, infinity: if somebody could give back opal, I'd be very happy.
[09:50] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, does internet telephone work?
[09:50] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: "internettelefon"; that translates just fine.
[09:50] <dholbach> :-)
[09:51] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: I have no idea how softphone would work for, say, italian or spanish though, but I suspect it might be harder to translate without expanding the abbreviation.
[09:51] <Burgwork> yes
[09:53] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: or you'd end up with the term untranslated, which kinda sucks.
[09:53] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, indeed. commenting as such on the upstream bug report
[09:54] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: thanks
[10:17] <mjg59> sistpoty: As long as you know what you're doing :) The interactions between things are really quite complicated
[10:18] <sistpoty> mjg59: actually I only want to add --with-rgb-path=/etc/X11/ to configure-call... (but I'll need to test it at first)
[10:18] <rehpotsirhc> hey, i'm on dapper and i just installed glx. anybody know what i can do with it?
[10:18] <sistpoty> mjg59: xosview is lacking appropriate colors (imo because of wrong directory)
[10:18] <mjg59> rehpotsirhc: #ubuntu-xgl
[10:18] <mjg59> sistpoty: Sure, go ahead
[10:18] <mjg59> Test before upload :)
[10:18] <sistpoty> mjg59: sure, will do... (will test after motu-meeting)
[10:20] <alexr> Can anybody tell me whether the Dapper Live CD will be similar to Breezy?
[10:20] <alexr> Is this page still valid for Dapper? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[10:20] <tseng> similar in what way
[10:21] <alexr> casper-based and all that?
[10:21] <tseng> not really
[10:21] <alexr> I know Hoary live CD was different from Breezy.
[10:21] <tseng> the livecd system was rewritten again
[10:21] <alexr> Oh boy.
[10:21] <tseng> the installer is also incorporated in the livecd
[10:21] <tseng> 'espresso'
[10:21] <alexr> Any pointers on how to modify it?
[10:22] <tseng> maybe post release you can write them
[10:22] <tseng> the page you just linked was community-written
[10:22] <alexr> I know. Is there any docs by ubuntu devs on this?
[10:22] <tseng> i am guessing the process is familiar, but the fs of the loopback is different etc
[10:22] <tseng> alexr: only the design specs
[10:22] <alexr> tseng: I suppose I could help testing the rough spots if I knew the inside.
[10:22] <tseng> alexr: and code
[10:23] <alexr> That would be good. What do I look at? espresso is a package, isn't it?
[10:23] <tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDUnionFS?highlight=%28livecd%29
[10:24] <tseng> hm where are the rest
[10:24] <alexr> So Tollef Fog Heen is the main guy on Live CD, right?
[10:24] <tseng> alexr: espresso is just the installer portion
[10:24] <Mithrandir> yes, I am
[10:24] <tseng> hm he is for this version
[10:24] <Mithrandir> if you want to customise the live cd, but not the installer, just ignore espresso
[10:25] <alexr> Mithrandir: I am thinking of adding a few packages.
[10:25] <tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimplifiedLiveCD?highlight=%28livecd%29
[10:25] <tseng> mm this is what i was looking for
[10:26] <Mithrandir> alexr: sure, that's easy enough.  Download the live cd, mount the image, mount -o loop -t squashfs casper/filesystem.squashfs /somewhere, copy that to a temporary directory, chroot into it and install packages, run mksquashfs on /somewhere and put the resulting squashfs as /casper/filesystem.squashfs on the cd.  Burn.
[10:26] <alexr> With Breesy, I unpacked casper and installed my packages, then packed things up and wrote CD image.
[10:27] <alexr> OK, so it's the -t squashfs that is new.
[10:27] <Mithrandir> yeah, and you have to copy it out, since squashfs is read-only.
[10:27] <alexr> used to be regular iso.
[10:27] <Mithrandir> if somebody who's better at writing docs than I am would like to write that up on the livecdcustomizationhowto page, I'd be very grateful.
[10:27] <Mithrandir> it's a regular iso, but there's a file inside that which is the live file system
[10:27] <alexr> I'll try and if I succeed then I will write it up.
[10:28] <alexr> Right.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> if you want the "check integrity check" to work correctly, you need to update /md5sums.txt in the iso image too
[10:29] <alexr> Yes, makes sense.
[10:29] <alexr> What about manifest?
[10:29] <alexr> in breezy there was casper/filesystem.manifest
[10:30] <Mithrandir> it's not used by anything.
[10:30] <alexr> OK, so I don't have to regenerate it now, do I?
[10:30] <Mithrandir> so you can just ignore it or update it as you please.
[10:30] <alexr> OK, thanks.
[10:30] <Mithrandir> you didn't have to in breezy either, iirc
[10:30] <alexr> Are you usually on this channel?
[10:31] <alexr> In case I see some problems, can I bug you later?
[10:31] <alexr> We're using Ubuntu for Linux Genealogy CD, gramps-project.org
[10:31] <alexr> Our users tend to be older people with not too much computer experience.
[10:31] <alexr> They love live CD>
[10:31] <Mithrandir> I'm here too many hours a day and my IRC client is here always, so just prefix anything you want me to see with Mithrandir and I'll see it.
[10:31] <alexr> with Gramps already installed.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> cool
[10:32] <alexr> Sounds good, thanks a lot!!!
[10:32] <Mithrandir> np, have fun.
[10:32] <alexr> Will do, thanks. See you later.
[10:35] <seb128> does anybody knows a bit about hplip here?
[10:36] <seb128> gnome-cups-manager has a "hp no_device_found" listed
[10:40] <bmon> seb128: check to see if /dev/usb/lp0 exists
[10:40] <seb128> /dev/usblp0
[10:40] <bmon> thats the prob
[10:40] <seb128> I've that one
[10:41] <seb128> udev bog?
[10:41] <bmon> i filed a but about it
[10:41] <bmon> either udev needs to create it in /dev/usb/lp0 or hplip needs to find it at /dev/usblp0
[10:42] <seb128> do you have the bug number?
[10:42] <bmon> just a sec
[10:42] <bmon> bug 28797
[10:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28797 in hplip "hplip only searches for printers in /dev/usb/*, but the device is /dev/usblp0" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28797
[10:43] <bmon> looks like scott took care of it
[10:43] <seb128> thank you
[10:43] <seb128> I'll make sure it's fixed for dapper :)
[10:44] <bmon> cool :)
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: I've gathered all the xgl crwod in #ubuntu-xgl :)
[10:54] <Mithrandir> have they started having competitions on who can throw their windows farthest off-screen?
[10:55] <sivang> Mithrandir: not yet :) we're in the "make the package require less manual scripting work" phase :-)
[10:55] <sivang> Mithrandir: are xgl people having such contests? sweet
[10:56] <Mithrandir> sivang: I'd imagine so.  Or that might just have been luminocity.
[10:57] <HiddenWolf> sivang: Mithrandir, LOL
[11:02] <geneo93> anyone know if seamonkey is going to be in dapper soon
[11:06] <Kamion> so, stupid question, but ... how do I get espresso to make an icon appear on the GNOME desktop
[11:06] <Kamion> ?
[11:06] <Kamion> i.e. how do I install the .desktop file? copying it to ~/Desktop/ doesn't seem sufficient
[11:07] <Kamion> ... but dragging it to the desktop does. I'm so confused
[11:09] <seb128> how is copying the .desktop not enough?
[11:09] <seb128> works fine for me
[11:10] <Kamion> it doesn't appear on the desktop - when I copy-drag it to the desktop, ~/.nautilus/ gets updated though
[11:11] <Kamion> is there something I need to poke to make nautilus re-read the directory?
[11:12] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync allegro4.2 (2:4.2.0-1) from unstable, which is not yet in ubuntu
[11:14] <seb128> Kamion: no, it should use gnome-vfs which use inotify for that
[11:15] <seb128> Kamion: if you cp something else than a .desktop does the desktop change to list it?
[11:15] <ajmitch_> morning
[11:15] <Kamion> seb128: no
[11:15] <Kamion> (cp TODO ~/Desktop/)
[11:16] <Kamion> seb128: this is with nautilus 2.13.90-0ubuntu1 BTW
[11:16] <Kamion> ... in vmware
[11:16] <seb128> maybe inotify doesn't work in vmware?
[11:17] <seb128> we didn't get any bug about notification not working with nautilus for some time
[11:18] <Kamion> ok, as long as dropping it into ~/Desktop/ is enough then I can ignore the problem since I'll be copying it in before nautilus starts anyway
[11:19] <seb128> yeah, copying is enough
[11:23] <sivang> Kamion: if I make a one liner patch to culmus font package, which will render hebrew fonts usable on dapper , could you review the debdiff and upload the package on my behalf?
[11:23] <Kamion> sivang: sure, mail me
[11:26] <sivang> Kamion: thanks, I'll mail you the details then :)
[11:40] <sivang> weird, getting secret key not availabe although it is when debuild -S
[11:47] <AndyFitz> mjg59: ping   http://www.brisgeek.com/screenshot.jpg  ;-)
[11:49] <sivang> Kamion: kamion@ubuntu.com is okay?
[11:49] <Kamion> sivang: no, cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[11:49] <sivang> ops
[11:49] <sivang> okay
[11:49] <lifeless> Kamion: you gotta get an alias ;)
[11:50] <sivang> yeah :)
[11:52] <mlistus> hi all
[11:52] <sivang> Kamion: sent 
[11:53] <mlistus> i need to make a custom install cd for breezy.
[11:53] <mlistus> i've dfsbuild, but it gets a copy of my running system.
[11:53] <sivang> Kamion: lemme know if reached you
[11:53] <mlistus> i want an nearly exact copy of official debian cd
[11:54] <mlistus> can anyone give me pointers?
[11:55] <mlistus> hello?
[11:56] <sivang> mlistus: I belive most of the people who can help at the moment are away or busy , might be good to try search for some docs on the wiki
[11:56] <Kamion> mlistus: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
[11:56] <Kamion> sivang: yes, I have two mails from you
[11:56] <sivang> Kamion: two? so kamion@ubuntu.com works ? :)
[11:57] <Kamion> sivang: no, you sent two different mails
[11:57] <Kamion> sivang: oh, right, go figure, it does work
[11:57] <Kamion> didn't expect that, I guess that's due to my launchpad name
[11:57] <sivang> Kamion: and I thought it was getting to late for me :)
[11:57] <seb128> Kamion: is that ok if I update nautilus-python to 0.4.2, there is 3 changes, 2 are already shipped with the 0.4.2 package as a patch and the other one is "Make debugging messages a run-time option"
[11:58] <Kamion> seb128: that's part of the GNOME desktop isn't it?
[11:58] <Kamion> or close enough
[11:58] <mlistus> Kamion: that's what i needed.
[11:58] <mlistus> Kamion: thanks!
[11:58] <seb128> not a part of the desktop but done by pygtk/pygnome upstream 
[11:58] <Kamion> seb128: I think that should be fine, anyway
[11:58] <seb128> k, thank you
[11:58] <mlistus> next, i need to know about the status of via support in ubuntu's xorg.
[11:58] <mlistus> will there be hw support?
[11:59] <mjg59> AndyFitz: Rock!
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> AndyFitz: nice artwork. :)
[12:00] <AndyFitz> mjg59,  rock but  my kernel isn't spawning gettys
[12:00] <AndyFitz> know anything about that :)
[12:01] <mjg59> AndyFitz: None
[12:02] <AndyFitz> bugger,  when I ALT+CTRL+F(x)   I get a blank screen